As you were.
March 7, 2011 3:59 AM Subscribe
Irish pop singer Brian McFadden released a single called 'Just The Way You Are (Drunk at the Bar)' on February 25th. Clem Bastow, in her 'Singled Out' review column for Australian street press music weekly Inpress, writes about it in the context of the centenary of International Women's Day (March 8th).
Via Tim Byron's 'Music Dump' (a weekly round-up of interesting music writing on the web in The Vine), where Byron describes the single by saying, "Aside from it sounding awful, its lyrics make Enrique's 'Tonight (I'm Fucking You)' sound like the work of a militant feminist."
Via Tim Byron's 'Music Dump' (a weekly round-up of interesting music writing on the web in The Vine), where Byron describes the single by saying, "Aside from it sounding awful, its lyrics make Enrique's 'Tonight (I'm Fucking You)' sound like the work of a militant feminist."
Well, it's par for the course given the aggressive sexualisation of pop lyrics and subject matter over the past few decades. Nowadays, when one imagines the lyrics a "generic pop song", one doesn't imagine it'd sound like "ooh baby baby I love you", but more like "Oh baby, yeah, Imma rock your body hard—like damn".
posted by acb at 4:18 AM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by acb at 4:18 AM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Funny, acb, I was thinking about linking that very Poptimist column. Yay.
posted by carbide at 4:24 AM on March 7, 2011
posted by carbide at 4:24 AM on March 7, 2011
He has claimed the song is just a gag and it’s not meant to have anything to do with rape.
If so then why are the lyrics dressed that way?
posted by three blind mice at 4:29 AM on March 7, 2011 [16 favorites]
If so then why are the lyrics dressed that way?
posted by three blind mice at 4:29 AM on March 7, 2011 [16 favorites]
Yo, Potato, you dense twit, let me break it down for you.
I got no further than the ethnic slur.
posted by Scoo at 4:29 AM on March 7, 2011 [5 favorites]
I got no further than the ethnic slur.
posted by Scoo at 4:29 AM on March 7, 2011 [5 favorites]
According to brianmcfaddenonline.net, words that I hope never to have cause to type again, he has donated money to rape charities as a result of the backlash.
“Feel sick that my single is getting so much attention for the wrong reason. i love making music but i do not want this song played on radio or being sold to profit myself if people think its about “date rape..." and "its not about date rape. i’m gonna give all my profits from the song to victims of rape. because it disgusts me. sorry people misunderstood my lyrics.”
Nob, but nice recovery, no?
posted by londonmark at 4:38 AM on March 7, 2011
“Feel sick that my single is getting so much attention for the wrong reason. i love making music but i do not want this song played on radio or being sold to profit myself if people think its about “date rape..." and "its not about date rape. i’m gonna give all my profits from the song to victims of rape. because it disgusts me. sorry people misunderstood my lyrics.”
Nob, but nice recovery, no?
posted by londonmark at 4:38 AM on March 7, 2011
So go ahead and call me politically correct, call me a feminazi, call me a stuck up bitch who just needs a good dicking: when you excuse rubbish like this (with arguments like that), you are a part of the problem. It’s 2011 for fuck’s sake. Happy International Women’s Day.
Actually, I don't believe any of those things to be true. But you are a fucking racist.
posted by Dysk at 4:49 AM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Actually, I don't believe any of those things to be true. But you are a fucking racist.
posted by Dysk at 4:49 AM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
sorry people misunderstood my lyrics.
Hooray, the good old non-apology: I apologize for you listeners being so stupid. The guy is free to put out any kind of swill he wants (and come on, aggressively misogynistic popular music has been around far longer than the last few decades -- "Knoxville Girl," anyone?), but you have to wonder at the basic acuity of anyone who, throughout the lyric-writing, arranging, recording, performing, and releasing process, wouldn't have had an inkling that this might offend someone.
So liar, jerk, or lying jerk. [shrug]
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:51 AM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Hooray, the good old non-apology: I apologize for you listeners being so stupid. The guy is free to put out any kind of swill he wants (and come on, aggressively misogynistic popular music has been around far longer than the last few decades -- "Knoxville Girl," anyone?), but you have to wonder at the basic acuity of anyone who, throughout the lyric-writing, arranging, recording, performing, and releasing process, wouldn't have had an inkling that this might offend someone.
So liar, jerk, or lying jerk. [shrug]
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:51 AM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Ethnic slur? Racist?
An I missing something?
posted by Astro Zombie at 4:55 AM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
An I missing something?
posted by Astro Zombie at 4:55 AM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm not familiar with Australian slurs, but I think "Potato" is probably an offensive term for "Irishman."
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:57 AM on March 7, 2011
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:57 AM on March 7, 2011
I think "Potato" is probably an offensive term for "Irishman."
Albeit a rather lame one. I think the date-rape anthem is probably the bigger concern, here.
posted by londonmark at 5:02 AM on March 7, 2011
Albeit a rather lame one. I think the date-rape anthem is probably the bigger concern, here.
posted by londonmark at 5:02 AM on March 7, 2011
Obviously, insulting a man's race is much lass forgivable than singing about date rape.
posted by fuq at 5:03 AM on March 7, 2011
posted by fuq at 5:03 AM on March 7, 2011
To be fair, people of Irish descent aren't as much of a minority in Australia as in the US or UK (if anything, there's more latent antipathy to "poms" (the English, typically recently migrated) than to the Irish, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of this had its roots in Anglo-Irish relations before independence), so the power dynamics of calling an (admittedly obnoxious) Irish person "potato" are somewhat different in nuance.
posted by acb at 5:04 AM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by acb at 5:04 AM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Is it possible the author is also of Irish extraction? Her surname us not uncommon in Ireland.
I mean, I'm Irish-American, and I guess I could get my sander up, but I think the fact that the song seems to rather stupidly be about taking advantage of a drunk woman seems the main topic.
posted by Astro Zombie at 5:11 AM on March 7, 2011
I mean, I'm Irish-American, and I guess I could get my sander up, but I think the fact that the song seems to rather stupidly be about taking advantage of a drunk woman seems the main topic.
posted by Astro Zombie at 5:11 AM on March 7, 2011
Albeit a rather lame one. I think the date-rape anthem is probably the bigger concern, here.
Frankly, both suck. I'd guess the fact that he will probably still be a judge on Australia's Got Talent (I'll take bets if people wish) is probably a bit more indicative of Aus culture regarding the acceptable boundaries of sexism though.
The norms aren't quite the same in general: last time they had a US judge he was a bit nonplussed when the blacked up singers came on.
I am ashamed that I know the above.
posted by jaduncan at 5:12 AM on March 7, 2011
Frankly, both suck. I'd guess the fact that he will probably still be a judge on Australia's Got Talent (I'll take bets if people wish) is probably a bit more indicative of Aus culture regarding the acceptable boundaries of sexism though.
The norms aren't quite the same in general: last time they had a US judge he was a bit nonplussed when the blacked up singers came on.
I am ashamed that I know the above.
posted by jaduncan at 5:12 AM on March 7, 2011
The ethnic slur shouldn't be dismissed but it doesn't somehow make the song OK. It's shameful in this day and age how many people think it's perfectly fine to have sex with somebody who's blackout drunk. See Roethlisberger or Wittels.
posted by kmz at 5:27 AM on March 7, 2011
posted by kmz at 5:27 AM on March 7, 2011
Astro Zombie: I mean, I'm Irish-American, and I guess I could get my sander up, but I think the fact that the song seems to rather stupidly be about taking advantage of a drunk woman seems the main topic.
This is why it was so disappointing and incongruous to see an ethnic slur meaninglessly chucked into an otherwise fine piece. Call the pop singer a misogynist and an apologist, surely that's damning enough?
posted by Dysk at 5:29 AM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
This is why it was so disappointing and incongruous to see an ethnic slur meaninglessly chucked into an otherwise fine piece. Call the pop singer a misogynist and an apologist, surely that's damning enough?
posted by Dysk at 5:29 AM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Are there any Australians here who can confirm that potato is an ethnic slur and not, say, a term for hardcore and softcore penises?
posted by Astro Zombie at 5:30 AM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Astro Zombie at 5:30 AM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
acb has it. It was something the writer shouldn't have written, but the power dynamics are different; Irish was the 3rd highest reported ancestry (after australian and british) in the 2006 census).
McFadden has never struck me as the sharpest tool in the box, but he has management and a record company. How they thought this was a good idea perplexes me.
Astro Zombie, I am Australian and can't recall hearing potato used as a slang for Irishmen or penises.
posted by lrobertjones at 5:38 AM on March 7, 2011
McFadden has never struck me as the sharpest tool in the box, but he has management and a record company. How they thought this was a good idea perplexes me.
Astro Zombie, I am Australian and can't recall hearing potato used as a slang for Irishmen or penises.
posted by lrobertjones at 5:38 AM on March 7, 2011
Song blows
posted by nathancaswell at 5:40 AM on March 7, 2011
posted by nathancaswell at 5:40 AM on March 7, 2011
The fact that he "didn't mean it that way" is the whole damn problem. That's how socially acceptable this type of sexual assault has become. I am speaking as someone who was "drunk as shit dancing at the bar" (or, rather, in my own home) and later taken advantage of, and as a 25 year old woman who has several friends with similar stories. For years I blamed myself for it: "I shouldn't have had so much to drink, I should know better. If I'd been sober I would have been able to say "no" on terms he couldn't debate. I wouldn't have been in that situation." Of course, this is what the media tells us: ultimately, it's the woman's responsibility to say "no", to stay sober. Otherwise, what does she expect? It's like saying "I was wearing a short skirt, so of course I got raped," but almost no one would agree with that. But somehow, it's fine to glamorize getting a woman drunk, or watching and waiting for her to get drunk, or otherwise actively seeking out an inebriated woman, so you can have a chance to take her home and fuck her without worrying about getting an actual "Yes."
I'm not sure why taking advantage of his drunk partner is supposed to be any more acceptable. I guess there's an implicit social contract of sorts, but it doesn't make actual consent unnecessary.
posted by torisaur at 6:02 AM on March 7, 2011 [9 favorites]
I'm not sure why taking advantage of his drunk partner is supposed to be any more acceptable. I guess there's an implicit social contract of sorts, but it doesn't make actual consent unnecessary.
posted by torisaur at 6:02 AM on March 7, 2011 [9 favorites]
Well, I just emailed her and asked what she meant, but those antipodeans keep strange hours, so I might not hear back any time soon.
posted by Astro Zombie at 6:03 AM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Astro Zombie at 6:03 AM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Who cares what the song's about? It's startlingly awful! I mean, this guy is a professional musician with a decent-sized production team behind him? THAT BANJO!
posted by nicolas léonard sadi carnot at 6:04 AM on March 7, 2011
posted by nicolas léonard sadi carnot at 6:04 AM on March 7, 2011
The "do some damage" line made me laugh though, that was refreshingly crass.
posted by nicolas léonard sadi carnot at 6:06 AM on March 7, 2011
posted by nicolas léonard sadi carnot at 6:06 AM on March 7, 2011
Why should we care?
Because even bad songs, perhaps especially bad songs, are part of the stock our culture is steeping in.
This not about whether a song is good or bad some subjective manner. This is about mainstream cultural references that tacitly support that notion that when girls are drunk and being cute, they are sending a message that any resulting "damage" is ok.
Think about it. The target for bad music is often the 18-30 demographic, which tends to be the exact demographic that is still coming to grips with interpersonal relationships and public drinking and general liminality.
Pop music is mistaken for philosophy all the time by listeners, regardless of the intention.
posted by clvrmnky at 6:12 AM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Because even bad songs, perhaps especially bad songs, are part of the stock our culture is steeping in.
This not about whether a song is good or bad some subjective manner. This is about mainstream cultural references that tacitly support that notion that when girls are drunk and being cute, they are sending a message that any resulting "damage" is ok.
Think about it. The target for bad music is often the 18-30 demographic, which tends to be the exact demographic that is still coming to grips with interpersonal relationships and public drinking and general liminality.
Pop music is mistaken for philosophy all the time by listeners, regardless of the intention.
posted by clvrmnky at 6:12 AM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
After listening to the whole song, I'm not so sure I agree with Clem Bastow that it's obviously about rape. Not that the lyrics are narrative genius or anything, but you could definitely read them as 'man is simultaneously disgusted and turned on by drunk girlfriend', so if that's the case he's making, then okay, maybe.
Sometimes it's the little things we like, we pretend to hate them
These things make other people fight, but in you I love them
Take a chance, dance, party the night away
Never mind, find plenty of ways to stay
All night I'm watching you all the way
You can't faze me
[...]
Your imagination takes full flight, and you feel amazing
Two steps from heaven dressed in white with your halo blazing
Oh yeah, here we go again
Everybody looking at you looking like a ten
All messed up, no place to go
Flirting on the dance floor, putting on a show
So far, you're [killing?] at the bar
Getting really trashed, still looking like a star
Even if you go too far, I love you just the way you are.
But that doesn't seem much less messed-up and disturbing. "I love you just the way you are, even when you're a disgusting mess making a spectacle of yourself, which you can't see because you're so drunk you think you're all dressed in white with a halo or something, but I'm over here noting down every little detail and revelling in it, believe me. Also it really turns me on, so let's go home and have sex, which I describe as 'doing some damage' and 'taking advantage'!"
So yeah, I can buy that it's not about picking up a too-drunk-to-consent girl at a bar and assaulting her. I'm just not sure why it's supposed to be less disturbing if it's about watching your fiancee dance, described in terms of... picking up a too-drunk-to-consent girl at a bar and assaulting her.
posted by Catseye at 6:13 AM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Sometimes it's the little things we like, we pretend to hate them
These things make other people fight, but in you I love them
Take a chance, dance, party the night away
Never mind, find plenty of ways to stay
All night I'm watching you all the way
You can't faze me
[...]
Your imagination takes full flight, and you feel amazing
Two steps from heaven dressed in white with your halo blazing
Oh yeah, here we go again
Everybody looking at you looking like a ten
All messed up, no place to go
Flirting on the dance floor, putting on a show
So far, you're [killing?] at the bar
Getting really trashed, still looking like a star
Even if you go too far, I love you just the way you are.
But that doesn't seem much less messed-up and disturbing. "I love you just the way you are, even when you're a disgusting mess making a spectacle of yourself, which you can't see because you're so drunk you think you're all dressed in white with a halo or something, but I'm over here noting down every little detail and revelling in it, believe me. Also it really turns me on, so let's go home and have sex, which I describe as 'doing some damage' and 'taking advantage'!"
So yeah, I can buy that it's not about picking up a too-drunk-to-consent girl at a bar and assaulting her. I'm just not sure why it's supposed to be less disturbing if it's about watching your fiancee dance, described in terms of... picking up a too-drunk-to-consent girl at a bar and assaulting her.
posted by Catseye at 6:13 AM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I'm having trouble parsing this as obviously about rape. Seems to me it could be about drunk people wanting to have sex. For me, parsing those lyrics as beating a woman up and raping her is a serious stretch. The song might be crap, but so is the rape label.
posted by y6y6y6 at 6:38 AM on March 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by y6y6y6 at 6:38 AM on March 7, 2011 [2 favorites]
y6y6y6: "beating a woman up and raping her"
Nobody mentioned anything about beating up (well the blogger did make some aside about causes of death for young women but it wasn't her read of the song). The idea is that "taking advantage" of a drunk woman is a form of rape.
posted by idiopath at 6:46 AM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Nobody mentioned anything about beating up (well the blogger did make some aside about causes of death for young women but it wasn't her read of the song). The idea is that "taking advantage" of a drunk woman is a form of rape.
posted by idiopath at 6:46 AM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Oh for goodness sakes, I'm from Ireland and find the potato "slur" kind of funny. He did kind of look like a spud when he was going through his puffy drunk stage. We've all at this point written off Brian McFayden as one of us anyway, I think, given all the tabloid stories over the years he's never been the brightest example of the Irish male. Aussies, he's yours now! Apparently he wrote this song about his (inexplicably gorgeous) girlfriend? I imagine she's charmed ....
Who cares what the song's about? It's startlingly awful! I mean, this guy is a professional musician with a decent-sized production team behind him? THAT BANJO!
I actually looked, once it started playing, to see if I'd accidentally started another video playing on top of this one. Brutal!
posted by jamesonandwater at 6:51 AM on March 7, 2011
Who cares what the song's about? It's startlingly awful! I mean, this guy is a professional musician with a decent-sized production team behind him? THAT BANJO!
I actually looked, once it started playing, to see if I'd accidentally started another video playing on top of this one. Brutal!
posted by jamesonandwater at 6:51 AM on March 7, 2011
Oh, this Brian McFadden is a real charming fellow: "Saying pink is a form of red is the same as saying homosexual is a form of male. In the old days there was no such thing as gay. It was frowned upon. The church would burn you at the stake."
posted by kmz at 6:54 AM on March 7, 2011
posted by kmz at 6:54 AM on March 7, 2011
I have called an Irish person 'Potato' but it was the Kiwis that taught me the term. I swear.
posted by Trivia Newton John at 7:05 AM on March 7, 2011
posted by Trivia Newton John at 7:05 AM on March 7, 2011
Jesus. My father used to call me "champ." Now I think he was just reminding me that he had adopted a little Irish kid.
posted by Astro Zombie at 7:09 AM on March 7, 2011
posted by Astro Zombie at 7:09 AM on March 7, 2011
From the article: As Nina Funnell noted this week, “Having sex with a woman who does not have the capacity to consent is not called ‘taking advantage’. It’s called rape. Calling it ‘taking advantage’ reclassifies an action from being a serious crime to a negative but essentially trivial behaviour with no legal dimension whatsoever.”
If the man is drunk also, is he still "taking advantage"?
There is something very problematic about all this. The premise seems to be that drunk women cannot give consent by virtue of their being drunk. Not "it's possible that a woman can get too drunk in a specific circumstance to consent", but that as a matter of law/social norms/etc. society declares that drunk women cannot consent.
But then if there is no violence, i.e. if the man does not physically force her to have sex, but we still call it rape, then how did the sex actually take place? (If there was violence, i.e. she was too drunk to put up a fight, then there can be no debate, that would absolutely be rape. So we aren't talking about that scenario here). He "took advantage" of what, exactly? If they are both drunk, why isn't she taking advantage of him?
posted by Pastabagel at 7:13 AM on March 7, 2011
If the man is drunk also, is he still "taking advantage"?
There is something very problematic about all this. The premise seems to be that drunk women cannot give consent by virtue of their being drunk. Not "it's possible that a woman can get too drunk in a specific circumstance to consent", but that as a matter of law/social norms/etc. society declares that drunk women cannot consent.
But then if there is no violence, i.e. if the man does not physically force her to have sex, but we still call it rape, then how did the sex actually take place? (If there was violence, i.e. she was too drunk to put up a fight, then there can be no debate, that would absolutely be rape. So we aren't talking about that scenario here). He "took advantage" of what, exactly? If they are both drunk, why isn't she taking advantage of him?
posted by Pastabagel at 7:13 AM on March 7, 2011
Pasabagel, I don't think it's as complicated as you make it sound. Active consent is required from both participants. OK, you don't have to sit down and sign a contract. But if one party is so drunk that they are incapable of signalling consent, then there is no consent. This is perhaps a more important distinction for women than men, given the nature of heterosexual intercourse, but the principle should be the same regardless of the genders involved.
posted by londonmark at 7:21 AM on March 7, 2011
posted by londonmark at 7:21 AM on March 7, 2011
And damn my eyes for misspelling your name, sorry.
posted by londonmark at 7:28 AM on March 7, 2011
posted by londonmark at 7:28 AM on March 7, 2011
Today I learned I am half "Potato", as is my wife. I am ok with this. Also, fuck Brian McFadden.
posted by everichon at 8:16 AM on March 7, 2011
posted by everichon at 8:16 AM on March 7, 2011
Pastabagel whether or not the song is accurately depicting rape isn't and shouldn't be under question. Of course it isn't. The question is whether it is winking in a "non-PC" jokey way at date rape. And I think it is. It isn't funny and it's artistically terrible. Pretending like these references aren't a big deal is morally about 100x worse in my mind than Eminem or Cannibal Corpse explicitly singing about rape, because they at least acknowledge that rape is horrifying rather than cutely transgressive.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:33 AM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:33 AM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yo, Potato, you dense twit, let me break it down for you.
I'm not Aussie, but I don't think this is so much an ethnic slur as a very accurate observation on the tuber-like features of Mr Macfadden.
posted by mippy at 8:44 AM on March 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
I'm not Aussie, but I don't think this is so much an ethnic slur as a very accurate observation on the tuber-like features of Mr Macfadden.
posted by mippy at 8:44 AM on March 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
The question is whether it is winking in a "non-PC" jokey way at date rape.
I agree with your point about the song completely, P/A. I'm not at all trying to be dismissive of this, and I know it is a very common and prevalent attitude in culture. I was focusing mroe on the bright-line consent issue.
posted by Pastabagel at 8:52 AM on March 7, 2011
I agree with your point about the song completely, P/A. I'm not at all trying to be dismissive of this, and I know it is a very common and prevalent attitude in culture. I was focusing mroe on the bright-line consent issue.
posted by Pastabagel at 8:52 AM on March 7, 2011
I'm full-potato or whatever and it did bother me a bit because the proper tuber-based insult for Irish people is Spud, not Potato. Ignorant Aussies.
posted by minifigs at 8:57 AM on March 7, 2011
posted by minifigs at 8:57 AM on March 7, 2011
Pastabagel whether or not the song is accurately depicting rape isn't and shouldn't be under question. Of course it isn't. The question is whether it is winking in a "non-PC" jokey way at date rape. And I think it is. It isn't funny and it's artistically terrible. Pretending like these references aren't a big deal is morally about 100x worse in my mind than Eminem or Cannibal Corpse explicitly singing about rape, because they at least acknowledge that rape is horrifying rather than cutely transgressive.
Yeah, I think this is true. For me, the bit that bothers me (other than 'potato', which I'm chalking up to a stupid mistake) is that he was surprised to hear that it was being interpreted like that - there is no way that the cheekiness and boundary-treading (for commercial pop) of the subject matter isn't part of why he released it. He didn't mistake it for benign, he can't be doe-eyed and stupid enough to think it was just a romantic way of loving someone's every fault.
I'm in favour of people having the right to make songs that insinuate or mention rape, and sometimes (hi, Odd Future!), they'll be songs I really like even though I'm a feminist and maybe shouldn't. But to be making a song that's using the shock value of having sex with a drunk person and to play dumb and retract it with a pacifying charity donation when someone questions it - that's bullshit. It's bullshit, and claiming innocence and surprise is way more sinister to me than him just singing "hey you, drunk girl, I'm going to fuck you against your will", though I'm really happy not hearing him sing that or anything else.
posted by carbide at 10:00 AM on March 7, 2011
Yeah, I think this is true. For me, the bit that bothers me (other than 'potato', which I'm chalking up to a stupid mistake) is that he was surprised to hear that it was being interpreted like that - there is no way that the cheekiness and boundary-treading (for commercial pop) of the subject matter isn't part of why he released it. He didn't mistake it for benign, he can't be doe-eyed and stupid enough to think it was just a romantic way of loving someone's every fault.
I'm in favour of people having the right to make songs that insinuate or mention rape, and sometimes (hi, Odd Future!), they'll be songs I really like even though I'm a feminist and maybe shouldn't. But to be making a song that's using the shock value of having sex with a drunk person and to play dumb and retract it with a pacifying charity donation when someone questions it - that's bullshit. It's bullshit, and claiming innocence and surprise is way more sinister to me than him just singing "hey you, drunk girl, I'm going to fuck you against your will", though I'm really happy not hearing him sing that or anything else.
posted by carbide at 10:00 AM on March 7, 2011
"hey you, drunk girl, I'm going to fuck you against your will"
That sounds frighteningly plausible as a chant.
posted by acb at 10:14 AM on March 7, 2011
That sounds frighteningly plausible as a chant.
posted by acb at 10:14 AM on March 7, 2011
That sounds frighteningly plausible as a chant.
I'm planning it as extremely catchy reverby jangle-pop, so everyone who listens will be conflicted.
posted by carbide at 10:17 AM on March 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
I'm planning it as extremely catchy reverby jangle-pop, so everyone who listens will be conflicted.
posted by carbide at 10:17 AM on March 7, 2011 [3 favorites]
Here are the full lyrics to "Just the Way You Are (Drunk at the Bar)"
"hey you, drunk girl, I'm going to fuck you against your will"
I agree that the song is pretty obviously offensive, but I'm usually pretty sensitive about such matters, and this one doesn't really raise my ire much.
The most offensive parts:
1. "I can't wait to get you home, so I can do some damage"
The conventional connotation here would be sexual violence, but it's a bit more ambiguous than that. I would guess it's intended to be hip slang, but fails.
2. "I can't wait to get you home, so i can take advantage."
There would be the most offensive part, I suppose, the notion that the man is "taking advantage" of a woman who is unable to give consent. Less offensive (to me), would be the notion that the man is taking advantage of the situation, i.e. "he and his partner like to get really drunk and fuck."
As a possible counterpoint, how does "Why Don't We Get Drunk and Screw?" compare?
(OK, I just listened to McFadden's abomination and feel no shame at unleashing Jimmy Buffett.)
Is McFadden's more offensive than Buffet's? Is Buffet's offensive at all?
The question is whether it is winking in a "non-PC" jokey way at date rape.
I'd say it's more completely oblivious than "ha ha" joking it off. Doesn't make it right, but perhaps makes it less evil.
posted by mrgrimm at 12:32 PM on March 7, 2011
"hey you, drunk girl, I'm going to fuck you against your will"
I agree that the song is pretty obviously offensive, but I'm usually pretty sensitive about such matters, and this one doesn't really raise my ire much.
The most offensive parts:
1. "I can't wait to get you home, so I can do some damage"
The conventional connotation here would be sexual violence, but it's a bit more ambiguous than that. I would guess it's intended to be hip slang, but fails.
2. "I can't wait to get you home, so i can take advantage."
There would be the most offensive part, I suppose, the notion that the man is "taking advantage" of a woman who is unable to give consent. Less offensive (to me), would be the notion that the man is taking advantage of the situation, i.e. "he and his partner like to get really drunk and fuck."
As a possible counterpoint, how does "Why Don't We Get Drunk and Screw?" compare?
(OK, I just listened to McFadden's abomination and feel no shame at unleashing Jimmy Buffett.)
Is McFadden's more offensive than Buffet's? Is Buffet's offensive at all?
The question is whether it is winking in a "non-PC" jokey way at date rape.
I'd say it's more completely oblivious than "ha ha" joking it off. Doesn't make it right, but perhaps makes it less evil.
posted by mrgrimm at 12:32 PM on March 7, 2011
So if the song has nothing to do with winking at illegal behaviour, if there's such a fuzzy line re consent, or if he's oblivious, why does the publicity shot show him posing for a mugshot? It seems to me that he's playing the bad boy, giggling at the prospect of being considered a real, live criminal -- with a mugshot! -- while denying that his lyrics are objectionable in any way.
The whole package is about trying to appear transgressive, then tiptoeing away, whingeing and bleating, when called on it.
posted by maudlin at 12:54 PM on March 7, 2011
The whole package is about trying to appear transgressive, then tiptoeing away, whingeing and bleating, when called on it.
posted by maudlin at 12:54 PM on March 7, 2011
Finally heard back from Clem:
"as I recall his nickname (i.e. in the press) in the Westlife days was 'Potato,' because he looks like one"
That does seem a common trope. From elsewhere:
"Brian McFadden - you know, that bloke with a potato face (not an insult, we like potatoes)"
"Has Delta Goodrem realised she's dating a potato?"
"The Potato Might Replace Kyle Sandilands On Idol"
posted by Astro Zombie at 1:05 PM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
"as I recall his nickname (i.e. in the press) in the Westlife days was 'Potato,' because he looks like one"
That does seem a common trope. From elsewhere:
"Brian McFadden - you know, that bloke with a potato face (not an insult, we like potatoes)"
"Has Delta Goodrem realised she's dating a potato?"
"The Potato Might Replace Kyle Sandilands On Idol"
posted by Astro Zombie at 1:05 PM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
I prefer my musical rape more highfallutin'.
"The Female Chorus is left in despair at the moral emptiness of this story. But the Male Chorus tells her that all pain is given meaning, and all sin redeemed, in the suffering of Christ. The two end the opera with a prayer."
posted by eegphalanges at 1:23 PM on March 7, 2011
"The Female Chorus is left in despair at the moral emptiness of this story. But the Male Chorus tells her that all pain is given meaning, and all sin redeemed, in the suffering of Christ. The two end the opera with a prayer."
posted by eegphalanges at 1:23 PM on March 7, 2011
I prefer my musical rape more highfallutin'.
Come down to my Decemberists thread.
I don't think Clemm is a racist but Aussies use so many racial slurs I've almost given up calling them out. She seems cool on Twitter and the article was interesting. I think of Brian as an Aussie now.
I'm sure we all listen to much more offensive non-pop music but the non-descriptness of this song is the problem. It'll become part of the background music of rape culture.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 1:45 PM on March 7, 2011
Come down to my Decemberists thread.
I don't think Clemm is a racist but Aussies use so many racial slurs I've almost given up calling them out. She seems cool on Twitter and the article was interesting. I think of Brian as an Aussie now.
I'm sure we all listen to much more offensive non-pop music but the non-descriptness of this song is the problem. It'll become part of the background music of rape culture.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 1:45 PM on March 7, 2011
I did scroll down to the Decemberists thread; I can't sort it out. It is odd that upright, well-fed, rational people confuse the Word with the Deed, yet deny the possibility of God or Magic. If we really believe that mentioning terrible things causes them, then perhaps ignoring them will make them go away? In that case we should cease commenting on anything disagreeable.
Years ago I read somebody's blog which complained about the depiction of women on crap TV shows and how that was "reflected in the culture." I mean, someone sitting on their fat ass blogging about fictional TV women while I'm recovering from a real rape---my response was and is "fuck you, blogger." If I am gang-raped by a pack of wild Irishmen after they listen to the McFadden song, could you entertain the possibility that people, including myself, are just plain awful, with or without prompting or reinforcement?
You don't have to eat shit to know it's not good for you; you're not enabling or empowering anyone by spooning it up. Each word I type here just feeds the self-loathing, honestly, of even taking the time to comment on crap culture. I couldn't make it past the first 4 bars of the McFadden song, if you could call that intro "bars" or even a "song." Criticize it as bad art, sure, but keep your magical thinking to yourself.
The fact we can even have these kinds of ridiculous discussions make me wish all the satellites would fall from the sky.
We don't really believe we'll solve anything, we just want to be right. And that feels good. "In heaven, everything is fine. You got your good things, and I got mine."
posted by eegphalanges at 2:39 PM on March 7, 2011
Years ago I read somebody's blog which complained about the depiction of women on crap TV shows and how that was "reflected in the culture." I mean, someone sitting on their fat ass blogging about fictional TV women while I'm recovering from a real rape---my response was and is "fuck you, blogger." If I am gang-raped by a pack of wild Irishmen after they listen to the McFadden song, could you entertain the possibility that people, including myself, are just plain awful, with or without prompting or reinforcement?
You don't have to eat shit to know it's not good for you; you're not enabling or empowering anyone by spooning it up. Each word I type here just feeds the self-loathing, honestly, of even taking the time to comment on crap culture. I couldn't make it past the first 4 bars of the McFadden song, if you could call that intro "bars" or even a "song." Criticize it as bad art, sure, but keep your magical thinking to yourself.
The fact we can even have these kinds of ridiculous discussions make me wish all the satellites would fall from the sky.
We don't really believe we'll solve anything, we just want to be right. And that feels good. "In heaven, everything is fine. You got your good things, and I got mine."
posted by eegphalanges at 2:39 PM on March 7, 2011
Are there any Australians here who can confirm that potato is an ethnic slur and not, say, a term for hardcore and softcore penises?
I have never heard 'potato' used as an ethnic slur.
posted by pompomtom at 3:57 PM on March 7, 2011
I have never heard 'potato' used as an ethnic slur.
posted by pompomtom at 3:57 PM on March 7, 2011
But it sits well as a personal insult.
posted by wilful at 4:33 PM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by wilful at 4:33 PM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
wot's taters precious, eh
posted by LogicalDash at 5:59 PM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by LogicalDash at 5:59 PM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
I don't really give a shit if "potato" is his nickname or not. It's a racist, stupid thing to say, and it totally derails an argument which is otherwise a slam-dunk. No wonder, in all her decade of "criticism", I haven't heard of her.
posted by Football Bat at 6:51 PM on March 7, 2011
posted by Football Bat at 6:51 PM on March 7, 2011
Another Australian here, also never heard 'Potato' used as an ethnic slur.
posted by a. at 7:08 PM on March 7, 2011
posted by a. at 7:08 PM on March 7, 2011
Add me to the chorus, Australian, never heard it.
And as an aside, i was acquainted with Clem for a while through a forum we both frequented, where discussions were had often about sexism, racism, prejudice, all manner of social ills.
We had our disagreements on things, but Clem was always very well-read and self-aware on things concerning sexism, privilege and ingrained prejudice. I highly doubted her reason for using 'potato' to refer to him had anything to do with his nationality, and now that she's outright said so, i'm going to take her at her word. Dude does, after all, bear more than a passing resemblance to a spud.
Unless you have some reason to suggest she's lying about her reasoning, Football Bat, how about laying off the accusations of racism?*
*Wouldn't it be nationalism, anyway?
posted by pseudonymph at 8:45 PM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
And as an aside, i was acquainted with Clem for a while through a forum we both frequented, where discussions were had often about sexism, racism, prejudice, all manner of social ills.
We had our disagreements on things, but Clem was always very well-read and self-aware on things concerning sexism, privilege and ingrained prejudice. I highly doubted her reason for using 'potato' to refer to him had anything to do with his nationality, and now that she's outright said so, i'm going to take her at her word. Dude does, after all, bear more than a passing resemblance to a spud.
Unless you have some reason to suggest she's lying about her reasoning, Football Bat, how about laying off the accusations of racism?*
*Wouldn't it be nationalism, anyway?
posted by pseudonymph at 8:45 PM on March 7, 2011 [1 favorite]
Another Australian, never heard 'Potato' used to slur people of Irish descent. Can't find anything online that suggests it's used in this manner anywhere else, either. 'Mick' would be used in this context, although this slur is also used more broadly against Catholics regardless of nationality. It generally gets thrown around by teenaged private school protestants to their private school Catholic sporting rivals. I can't recall hearing it used by adults, or really anyone outside this little privileged sphere.
posted by Thoth at 10:16 PM on March 7, 2011
posted by Thoth at 10:16 PM on March 7, 2011
The "classic" of this genre: Baby, It's Cold Outside (this song really creeps me out).
I will say that these songs, to me, are worse than those of the Decemberists (which can be read as little novellas), as the seem to be sung in the actual "voice" of the singer rather than by a character in a story.
Finally, for Brian McFadden.
posted by dhens at 2:13 AM on March 8, 2011
I will say that these songs, to me, are worse than those of the Decemberists (which can be read as little novellas), as the seem to be sung in the actual "voice" of the singer rather than by a character in a story.
Finally, for Brian McFadden.
posted by dhens at 2:13 AM on March 8, 2011
I will say that these songs, to me, are worse than those of the Decemberists (which can be read as little novellas), as the seem to be sung in the actual "voice" of the singer rather than by a character in a story.
Good point. The protagonist of the Ds' "We Both Go Down Together" is pretty clearly an asshole, and the story itself, as warmed-over Tess of the D'Urbervilles, isn't shocking. What's creepily predictable there is how many people relate to the character and read the song as a sad, beautiful story of star-crossed lovers:
I found you, a tattooed tramp*
A dirty daughter from the labor camp
I laid you down in the grass of a clearing
You wept, but your soul was willing
It's an interesting barometer of attitudes toward rape in this year of grace that if you put "Come on, you know you wanted it" to a pretty tune, it'll make people weep into their hankies over the romance of it all.
The big distinction between songs like this or McFadden's ditty and "Let's Get Drunk and Screw" is that in the latter, there's a "we/us," whereas in the former there's an "I" who does things, or wants to do things, to "you." Same with "Baby, It's Cold Outside," which is less a duet than a verbal wrestling match and always reminds me of Pepe LePew assailing that poor cat.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:49 AM on March 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
Good point. The protagonist of the Ds' "We Both Go Down Together" is pretty clearly an asshole, and the story itself, as warmed-over Tess of the D'Urbervilles, isn't shocking. What's creepily predictable there is how many people relate to the character and read the song as a sad, beautiful story of star-crossed lovers:
I found you, a tattooed tramp*
A dirty daughter from the labor camp
I laid you down in the grass of a clearing
You wept, but your soul was willing
It's an interesting barometer of attitudes toward rape in this year of grace that if you put "Come on, you know you wanted it" to a pretty tune, it'll make people weep into their hankies over the romance of it all.
The big distinction between songs like this or McFadden's ditty and "Let's Get Drunk and Screw" is that in the latter, there's a "we/us," whereas in the former there's an "I" who does things, or wants to do things, to "you." Same with "Baby, It's Cold Outside," which is less a duet than a verbal wrestling match and always reminds me of Pepe LePew assailing that poor cat.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:49 AM on March 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
*"tramp" in the original sense of "traveler, migrant worker"
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:49 AM on March 8, 2011
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:49 AM on March 8, 2011
I'm sure Brian McFadden just HATES all the free publicity he's getting from this. I only ever knew him as the guy who stupidly left Westlife for a solo career, but apparently he's not doing too badly down in Australia now. Not as good as Westlife, mind you, but he doesn't seem to be completely off the map.
posted by antifuse at 11:30 AM on March 8, 2011
posted by antifuse at 11:30 AM on March 8, 2011
I don't really give a shit if "potato" is his nickname or not. It's a racist, stupid thing to say.
No it isn't. It will only be racist if it has something to do with his ethnicity, not in the case that it doesn't. That's what "racist" means.
posted by howfar at 12:19 PM on March 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
No it isn't. It will only be racist if it has something to do with his ethnicity, not in the case that it doesn't. That's what "racist" means.
posted by howfar at 12:19 PM on March 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
Australian with easily-recognisable Irish background here - never heard of Potato as a racist term. And let's face it, with the charming frequency that many Australians will trot them out, I'm sure I would have heard it by now. It's a childish insult for Bastow to have used, but fits the tone: Hey, you with the big, dumb head! let me break it down for you.
posted by notionoriety at 5:03 PM on March 14, 2011
posted by notionoriety at 5:03 PM on March 14, 2011
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