Comments on: Crowd-Based Peer Review of Real-Time Experiments

Crowd-Based Peer Review of Real-Time Experiments

drdanger — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 19:07:27 -0800

Backyard Brains, the people who showed you how to stimulate neurons in a cockroach leg using your iPhone, now bring you the remote controlled roach.

Text version: Surprisingly cheerful people remove the circuit board from a remote-controlled toy, modify it slightly, and attach it to the antenna neurons of a live cockroach. The toy's controller now steers the roach. Metafilter has previously discussed 100% natural methods of creating zombie roaches.
Warning: May appear in your nightmares.

By: two lights above the sea

two lights above the sea — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 19:15:43 -0800

I'm going this is cool without even watching the video because it will give me terrible nightmares.

By: Menthol

Menthol — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 19:21:17 -0800

Then they sent that roach back in time to kill Sarah Roach Connor. I am also reminded of this for some reason.

By: saturday_morning

saturday_morning — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 19:25:48 -0800

This one is still my favourite for the moment, partly because of the phrase "the beetle is tethered for practical purposes".

By: eviemath

eviemath — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 19:27:03 -0800

That is so cool. Even though I kind of feel bad for the roach, being manipulated like that. But my most pressing question is, what kind of roach is that, anyways? It looks too large to be a run-of-the-mill North American cockroach (er, from my limited experience - maybe they do grow larger?). A friend once had some sort of African cockroaches for pets, and they would be about the right size match.

By: modelenoir

modelenoir — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 19:53:30 -0800

There is a good discussion of this on a BoingBoing comment thread. Plenty of uninformed arguments on either side of the topic, but a guy from Backyard Brains responded to some complaints, as well as stated the point of the exercise, with this and this.

By: Rock Steady

Rock Steady — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 19:57:35 -0800

I wonder what this must feel like for the roach. I know that is terribly anthropomorphizing, but there's a big difference between "must... go... left" and "I think I'll go left now". Is this mind control in the sense of forcing the roach to do something it does not want to do, or are the electrical impulses that are being imparted by the circuitry essentially identical to the electrical impulses that would arise out of the roach's natural "thought process".

By: Evernix

Evernix — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 20:06:11 -0800

That same question arose in my mind as well, Rock Steady.

By: Space Kitty

Space Kitty — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 20:18:26 -0800

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

By: IjonTichy

IjonTichy — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 20:20:28 -0800

I know that is terribly anthropomorphizing, but there's a big difference between "must... go... left" and "I think I'll go left now". That difference does not necessarily exist for the roach. You need a fairly deep hierarchy of sensory and motor brain areas to plan, and without planning there's no "I think I'll go left now." There's just "I'm going left now. Now I'm going right."

By: grobstein

grobstein — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 20:23:07 -0800

BTW this is a pretty cool DIY project but was done by researchers ~10 years ago.

By: vapidave

vapidave — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 20:28:27 -0800

I'm not about Famous Animal Rights Activists. I would rather spay and neuter the afore mentioned group because some tangible benefit might come from sterilizing that nothing-to-do-with-Maslow-lot. I've roasted ants with a magnifying glass, I've salted slugs, I've pulled legs off of Daddy-Longlegs spiders, I've set traps to drown slugs in mayonnaise jar lids full of beer (to keep them from the lettuce), I've ran slugs over directly with my bicycle. I've thrown rocks at dogs (when they were wanting to bite me). I eat meat without remorse. I wear leather shoes. I like drag-racing and excess. I like fuck you, Metal, loud, and I'm excited watching a (mutual combat) fight on the street. Stimulating neurons in a cockroach leg for entertainment is fucking bullshit Yo.

By: Threeway Handshake

Threeway Handshake — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 20:28:36 -0800

I wonder what this must feel like for the roach. Roaches don't really have "brains" the way we do. Nearly all of their actions are controlled by ganglia spread throughout their bodies. Their behavior is like human reflexes. This experiment is just like when a doctor hits your knee with the rubber mallet, your leg pops up.

By: StickyCarpet

StickyCarpet — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 20:40:07 -0800

When God granted man dominion over the animals, I doubt that this is what He had in mind.

By: vapidave

vapidave — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 20:44:51 -0800

This experiment is just like when a doctor hits your knee with the rubber mallet, your leg pops up. Well, except when the doctor does that there is a purpose other than "wow, cool app" entertainment. (Also the brain is ganglia).

By: IjonTichy

IjonTichy — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 21:00:58 -0800

Also the brain is ganglia ...er? Ganglia is generally a term that refers to a collection of neurons outside the central nervous system. The basal ganglia are the only exception I'm aware of.

By: Threeway Handshake

Threeway Handshake — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 21:05:57 -0800

The ganglia spread throughout their bodies refers to the peripheral nervous system, not the basal ganglia.

By: IjonTichy

IjonTichy — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 21:07:43 -0800

Yeah, I know, my point was that saying "the brain is ganglia" is silly.

By: humannaire

humannaire — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 21:11:13 -0800

I clicked the link. Damn.

By: Threeway Handshake

Threeway Handshake — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 21:23:21 -0800

Sorry Ijon, I wasn't replying to you.

By: vapidave

vapidave — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 21:48:50 -0800

Ganglion. That little collection of nerve cells in your knee is a little brain. The only distinction is it being at the periphery rather than inside your head. It's a distinction without a difference that. "Ganglia often interconnect with other ganglia to form a complex system of ganglia known as a plexus. Ganglia provide relay points and intermediary connections between different neurological structures in the body, such as the peripheral and central nervous systems [em mine]." Yeah, I know, my point was that saying "the brain is ganglia" is silly. is like saying a transistor radio doesn't have transistors. I've been wrong before and will be again no doubt. I'd rather swallow some arrogant pride today but I don't see where my cite above is wrong.

By: Lovecraft In Brooklyn

Lovecraft In Brooklyn — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 22:25:43 -0800

Can we somehow program roaches to kill other roaches and then kill themselves? Like a guard-roach.

By: Samizdata

Samizdata — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 22:37:58 -0800

You know, there was a movie sort of about that, LovecraftInBrooklyn...

By: 2N2222

2N2222 — Mon, 07 Mar 2011 22:49:37 -0800

> When God granted man dominion over the animals, I doubt that this is what He had in mind. I dunno. When God granted man dominion over the animals, this may be exactly what He had in mind.

By: DU

DU — Tue, 08 Mar 2011 05:16:12 -0800

BTW this is a pretty cool DIY project but was done by researchers ~10 years ago. The amazing thing is not that the roach dances but that he dances with off-the-shelf hardware.

By: TedW

TedW — Tue, 08 Mar 2011 07:32:37 -0800

But my most pressing question is, what kind of roach is that, anyways? The caption for one of the videos mentions Discoid Roaches. They are evidently prized for their high meat to shell ratio.

By: Meatbomb

Meatbomb — Tue, 08 Mar 2011 07:36:43 -0800

Can we somehow program roaches to kill other roaches and then kill themselves? Sounds like a job for a Judas roach.

By: cashman

cashman — Tue, 08 Mar 2011 07:50:42 -0800

fido, you're next.

By: IjonTichy

IjonTichy — Tue, 08 Mar 2011 08:36:01 -0800

"Ganglion. That little collection of nerve cells in your knee is a little brain. The only distinction is it being at the periphery rather than inside your head." Well, that's what the word "ganglion" means, though: a little collection of nerve cells outside the central nervous system--and the central nervous system is what people are normally referring to when they say "brain". The fact that a very, very large amount of nerve cells is collected in a single place, rather than scattered throughout the body, is what makes a brain a brain, and this has significant computational effects. (Information is transmitted very slowly in the nervous system, compared to in a computer; far-flung neurons can't communicate with each other as well.)