You're driving me to drink!
April 8, 2011 1:43 PM Subscribe
Good Results of Bad Habits? Research Explains Paradox. There's a lot of research that shows the deleterious health effects of stress. So shouldn't alleviating stress be a net positive for your health? Why, yes, of course. But what if you relieve stress by a lot of bad habits which themselves have bad health effects? Apparently, you still benefit by reducing stress. Advances in psychosomatic medicine have highlighted the link between your mental state and your physical health, but for all of history, human beings have self-medicated their mental health with "bad habits" at the cost of physical health.
'When people are under chronic stress, they tend to smoke, drink, use drugs and overeat to help cope with stress. These behaviors trigger a biological cascade that helps prevent depression, but they also contribute to a host of physical problems that eventually contribute to early death. That is the claim of University of Michigan social scientist James S. Jackson and colleagues in an article published in the May 2010 issue of the American Journal of Public Health.'
The article 'helps explain a long-time epidemiological puzzle: why African Americans have worse physical health than whites but better psychiatric health.'
And this effect may also underlie some of the gap between black and white health outcomes.
"Racial disparities in physical illnesses and mortality are not really a result of race at all, Jackson says. Instead, they are a result of how people live their lives, the composition of their lives. These disparities are not just a function of socioeconomic status, but of a wide range of conditions including the accretion of micro insults that people are exposed to over the years."
'"Overeating is an effective, early, well-learned response to chronic environmental stressors that only strengthens over the life course. In contrast, for a variety of social and cultural reasons, black American men's coping choices are different.
"Early in life, they tend to be physically active and athletic, which produces the stress-lowering hormone dopamine. But in middle age, physical deterioration reduces the viability and effectiveness of this way of coping with stress, and black men turn in increasing numbers to unhealthy coping behaviors, showing increased rates of smoking, drinking and illicit drug use."'
Perhaps George Orwell is now vindicated by science, when he explained that in effect poor people indulge in poor health habits just to hang onto their sanity:
"The basis of their diet, therefore, is white bread and margarine, corned beef, sugared tea, and potatoes — an appalling diet. Would it not be better if they spent more money on wholesome things like oranges and wholemeal bread or if they even, like the writer of the letter to the New Statesman, saved on fuel and ate their carrots raw? Yes, it would, but the point is that no ordinary human being is ever going to do such a thing. The ordinary human being would sooner starve than live on brown bread and raw carrots. And the peculiar evil is this, that the less money you have, the less inclined you feel to spend it on wholesome food. A millionaire may enjoy breakfasting off orange juice and Ryvita biscuits; an unemployed man doesn’t. Here the tendency of which I spoke at the end of the last chapter comes into play. When you are unemployed, which is to say when you are underfed, harassed, bored, and miserable, you don’t want to eat dull wholesome food. You want something a little bit ‘tasty’. There is always some cheaply pleasant thing to tempt you. Let’s have three pennorth of chips! Run out and buy us a twopenny ice-cream! Put the kettle on and we’ll all have a nice cup of tea! That is how your mind works when you are at the P.A.C. level. White bread-and-marg and sugared tea don’t nourish you to any extent, but they are nicer (at least most people think so) than brown bread-and-dripping and cold water. Unemployment is an endless misery that has got to be constantly palliated, and especially with tea, the English-man’s opium. A cup of tea or even an aspirin is much better as a temporary stimulant than a crust of brown bread."
'When people are under chronic stress, they tend to smoke, drink, use drugs and overeat to help cope with stress. These behaviors trigger a biological cascade that helps prevent depression, but they also contribute to a host of physical problems that eventually contribute to early death. That is the claim of University of Michigan social scientist James S. Jackson and colleagues in an article published in the May 2010 issue of the American Journal of Public Health.'
The article 'helps explain a long-time epidemiological puzzle: why African Americans have worse physical health than whites but better psychiatric health.'
And this effect may also underlie some of the gap between black and white health outcomes.
"Racial disparities in physical illnesses and mortality are not really a result of race at all, Jackson says. Instead, they are a result of how people live their lives, the composition of their lives. These disparities are not just a function of socioeconomic status, but of a wide range of conditions including the accretion of micro insults that people are exposed to over the years."
'"Overeating is an effective, early, well-learned response to chronic environmental stressors that only strengthens over the life course. In contrast, for a variety of social and cultural reasons, black American men's coping choices are different.
"Early in life, they tend to be physically active and athletic, which produces the stress-lowering hormone dopamine. But in middle age, physical deterioration reduces the viability and effectiveness of this way of coping with stress, and black men turn in increasing numbers to unhealthy coping behaviors, showing increased rates of smoking, drinking and illicit drug use."'
Perhaps George Orwell is now vindicated by science, when he explained that in effect poor people indulge in poor health habits just to hang onto their sanity:
"The basis of their diet, therefore, is white bread and margarine, corned beef, sugared tea, and potatoes — an appalling diet. Would it not be better if they spent more money on wholesome things like oranges and wholemeal bread or if they even, like the writer of the letter to the New Statesman, saved on fuel and ate their carrots raw? Yes, it would, but the point is that no ordinary human being is ever going to do such a thing. The ordinary human being would sooner starve than live on brown bread and raw carrots. And the peculiar evil is this, that the less money you have, the less inclined you feel to spend it on wholesome food. A millionaire may enjoy breakfasting off orange juice and Ryvita biscuits; an unemployed man doesn’t. Here the tendency of which I spoke at the end of the last chapter comes into play. When you are unemployed, which is to say when you are underfed, harassed, bored, and miserable, you don’t want to eat dull wholesome food. You want something a little bit ‘tasty’. There is always some cheaply pleasant thing to tempt you. Let’s have three pennorth of chips! Run out and buy us a twopenny ice-cream! Put the kettle on and we’ll all have a nice cup of tea! That is how your mind works when you are at the P.A.C. level. White bread-and-marg and sugared tea don’t nourish you to any extent, but they are nicer (at least most people think so) than brown bread-and-dripping and cold water. Unemployment is an endless misery that has got to be constantly palliated, and especially with tea, the English-man’s opium. A cup of tea or even an aspirin is much better as a temporary stimulant than a crust of brown bread."
I will now go eat my boxed macaroni and cheese with sliced hot dogs, broccoli, and sriracha sauce.
posted by whimsicalnymph at 2:12 PM on April 8, 2011 [11 favorites]
posted by whimsicalnymph at 2:12 PM on April 8, 2011 [11 favorites]
Usually it is thought that:
Bad Habits -> Bad Conditions (Unemployment, etc) -> Stress
And this shows that it is as Orwell says:
Bad Conditions (Unemployment, etc) -> Stress -> Bad Habits
But couldn't both interpretations be right?
Bad Conditions (Unemployment, etc) -> Stress -> Bad Habits -> Lesser Stress > Worse Conditions (Poor health, etc) -> Greater Stress
That would make the human mind as a sorta homeostatic misery machine.
posted by TwelveTwo at 2:16 PM on April 8, 2011 [7 favorites]
This has been making quite a talk radio spectacle in Texas lately, and seems appropriate here.
posted by jpziller at 2:27 PM on April 8, 2011
posted by jpziller at 2:27 PM on April 8, 2011
Thus explaining why I spent something like six hours online yesterday.
posted by jokeefe at 2:28 PM on April 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by jokeefe at 2:28 PM on April 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
The ordinary human being would sooner starve than live on brown bread and raw carrots.
George Orwell clearly didn't live here in Vermont.
posted by saturday_morning at 2:29 PM on April 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
George Orwell clearly didn't live here in Vermont.
posted by saturday_morning at 2:29 PM on April 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
Also they just did some research on the beneficial affects of high sodium on stressful situations for rats.
posted by xarnop at 2:33 PM on April 8, 2011
posted by xarnop at 2:33 PM on April 8, 2011
Work is the curse of the drinking class, as for the unemployed, maybe them too.
posted by emhutchinson at 2:44 PM on April 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by emhutchinson at 2:44 PM on April 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
I am absolutely certain that people use "unhealthy" coping mechnisms because they work better than other suggested coping mechanisms. A bunch of happy financially stable people can tell poor people to use exercise and eat vegetables, but when you're poor and fatigued and stressed and high inflammatory conditions, deal with a lot of stress and do not get social recognition or acknowledgement (in the form of pay) for dealing with all of that, you're just too exhausted to do ONE MORE THING.
Yoga? Really, when you're so stressed from being sexually harrased by all the rich guys at your waitress job and being on your feet all day and you know you'll never make it through school. You just want a cigarette and beer or a joint or whatever will make it better in that moment that is EASY and feels right.
Everything else takes work, something that an exhausted person who is at their limit doesn't have extra energy for. (Note, not all poor people are maxed out, and some rich people are maxed out--- however rich people have options (massage, vacation to the beach, going to a spa, playing golf etc etc) when maxed out, poor people have drugs, fat, salt, and alcohol.
You're better off doing SOMETHING when maxed out than doing nothing--- and if all you can do is grab for whatever makes it feel better that's in front of you, you're probably better off doing that then doing nothing to treat the condition.
But, there is increasing evidence that affectionate communication such as hugging and the like has biological health benefits. So all I'm saying is, instead of bashing the next person using "bad" coping mechanisms, why not see if they would like a hug and someone to talk to? : P
(PS The research on the biological responses to affectionate communication have not been released yet, but there should be a pretty cool study on it coming out soon!)
posted by xarnop at 2:45 PM on April 8, 2011 [19 favorites]
Yoga? Really, when you're so stressed from being sexually harrased by all the rich guys at your waitress job and being on your feet all day and you know you'll never make it through school. You just want a cigarette and beer or a joint or whatever will make it better in that moment that is EASY and feels right.
Everything else takes work, something that an exhausted person who is at their limit doesn't have extra energy for. (Note, not all poor people are maxed out, and some rich people are maxed out--- however rich people have options (massage, vacation to the beach, going to a spa, playing golf etc etc) when maxed out, poor people have drugs, fat, salt, and alcohol.
You're better off doing SOMETHING when maxed out than doing nothing--- and if all you can do is grab for whatever makes it feel better that's in front of you, you're probably better off doing that then doing nothing to treat the condition.
But, there is increasing evidence that affectionate communication such as hugging and the like has biological health benefits. So all I'm saying is, instead of bashing the next person using "bad" coping mechanisms, why not see if they would like a hug and someone to talk to? : P
(PS The research on the biological responses to affectionate communication have not been released yet, but there should be a pretty cool study on it coming out soon!)
posted by xarnop at 2:45 PM on April 8, 2011 [19 favorites]
There's something comforting about knowing I was designed (no, that's not it. Adapted?) to be miserable. Gives me a sense of purpose to my failure.
posted by mccarty.tim at 2:47 PM on April 8, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by mccarty.tim at 2:47 PM on April 8, 2011 [5 favorites]
"But what if you relieve stress by a lot of bad habits which themselves have bad health effects? Apparently, you still benefit by reducing stress."
I don't think that's quite what the article says. The high-stress group (black people were used as an example) still suffer physical health problems with more frequency.
"The article 'helps explain a long-time epidemiological puzzle: why African Americans have worse physical health than whites but better psychiatric health.'"
Umm, I don't think it answers that question. What I see is unhealthy coping mechanisms positively correlated with stress reduction in African Americans and negatively correlated in white Americans. If you want to say that black Americans benefit from improved psychiatric health because of their more effective use of semi-functional coping mechanisms, you just shunt the real question off: why don't white Americans see the same benefits from smoking, for instance?
"Racial disparities in physical illnesses and mortality are not really a result of race at all, Jackson says."
I've seen people say misleadingly simple things like this before, and people buy it, especially with the "race-is-just-a-social-construction" thing going around a lot. Genetics play an important role in health. Similarity in ancestry is basically a matter of where your ancestors lived. Ancestry shows up in your skin color. Not 100% or anything, but enough to be useful.
Sickle cell disease, for instance, has nothing to do with whether you eat oat bran or smoke menthols.
"Usually it is thought that:
Bad Habits -> Bad Conditions (Unemployment, etc) -> Stress"
I thought that it was usually thought that:
Bad Conditions -> Bad Habits -> Stress
But ultimately, you're right: there is feedback.
posted by nathan v at 2:51 PM on April 8, 2011
I don't think that's quite what the article says. The high-stress group (black people were used as an example) still suffer physical health problems with more frequency.
"The article 'helps explain a long-time epidemiological puzzle: why African Americans have worse physical health than whites but better psychiatric health.'"
Umm, I don't think it answers that question. What I see is unhealthy coping mechanisms positively correlated with stress reduction in African Americans and negatively correlated in white Americans. If you want to say that black Americans benefit from improved psychiatric health because of their more effective use of semi-functional coping mechanisms, you just shunt the real question off: why don't white Americans see the same benefits from smoking, for instance?
"Racial disparities in physical illnesses and mortality are not really a result of race at all, Jackson says."
I've seen people say misleadingly simple things like this before, and people buy it, especially with the "race-is-just-a-social-construction" thing going around a lot. Genetics play an important role in health. Similarity in ancestry is basically a matter of where your ancestors lived. Ancestry shows up in your skin color. Not 100% or anything, but enough to be useful.
Sickle cell disease, for instance, has nothing to do with whether you eat oat bran or smoke menthols.
"Usually it is thought that:
Bad Habits -> Bad Conditions (Unemployment, etc) -> Stress"
I thought that it was usually thought that:
Bad Conditions -> Bad Habits -> Stress
But ultimately, you're right: there is feedback.
posted by nathan v at 2:51 PM on April 8, 2011
I can't wait for the inevitable trend piece on "The New Jolliness."
posted by condour75 at 3:30 PM on April 8, 2011
posted by condour75 at 3:30 PM on April 8, 2011
Junk food may be self-medication, but it's patronizing to let people off the hook because they're poor. Eating well is mainly a matter of subtracting things from your diet, and that's FREE. So is living well. It doesn't cost you anything to shed alcohol, drugs, cigarettes and a sedentary lifestyle. And doing all these things makes you feel better, fast. It also saves a poor person a lot of money. Think what dropping meat and cigarettes from your life means in terms of extra spending money. You're not doing the poor any favors by excusing unhealthy lifestyles.
I mean, here's the superfast, supercheap way to improve your life:
Stop smoking; stop eating meat; stop eating sugar; walk more; don't take drugs; stop hanging around with losers; go to church or something. None of that costs anything. And it's fun. Now go ahead, do it.
posted by Faze at 3:50 PM on April 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
I mean, here's the superfast, supercheap way to improve your life:
Stop smoking; stop eating meat; stop eating sugar; walk more; don't take drugs; stop hanging around with losers; go to church or something. None of that costs anything. And it's fun. Now go ahead, do it.
posted by Faze at 3:50 PM on April 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
You're not doing the poor any favors by excusing unhealthy lifestyles.
And you're not doing reality any favors by pretending those healthful actions are simple and easy for everyone the way they might be for you.
posted by jsturgill at 3:56 PM on April 8, 2011 [14 favorites]
And you're not doing reality any favors by pretending those healthful actions are simple and easy for everyone the way they might be for you.
posted by jsturgill at 3:56 PM on April 8, 2011 [14 favorites]
Faze, it is for people like you, that I included that Orwell quote. Then I read your comment. Stupid Orwell, so inarticulate, the bastard.
posted by VikingSword at 3:57 PM on April 8, 2011 [13 favorites]
posted by VikingSword at 3:57 PM on April 8, 2011 [13 favorites]
Faze, nobody needs to excuse anyone's lifestyle; nobody needs to be let off the hook, because judging people for the health decisions they make is unnecessary to begin with.
What Jackson et al. found is actually a little bit different than what you assert. Interestingly, it depends on the population-- so, if you're not a black American, maybe you'll find different, but then, these are only statistically true anyways, so you might be part of the black population that finds "unhealthy" behaviors exacerbate psychiatric problems.
So what Jackson found was that these unhealthy behaviors (maybe in combination with healthy behaviors, maybe not) were correlated with improved psychiatric health. Apparently, for many black Americans, stopping smoking, stopping eating meat, stopping eating sugar, etc, did not improve life sufficiently. It took cigarettes.
It's tempting to believe that everyone is like oneself, but people are diverse creatures.
posted by nathan v at 4:02 PM on April 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
What Jackson et al. found is actually a little bit different than what you assert. Interestingly, it depends on the population-- so, if you're not a black American, maybe you'll find different, but then, these are only statistically true anyways, so you might be part of the black population that finds "unhealthy" behaviors exacerbate psychiatric problems.
So what Jackson found was that these unhealthy behaviors (maybe in combination with healthy behaviors, maybe not) were correlated with improved psychiatric health. Apparently, for many black Americans, stopping smoking, stopping eating meat, stopping eating sugar, etc, did not improve life sufficiently. It took cigarettes.
It's tempting to believe that everyone is like oneself, but people are diverse creatures.
posted by nathan v at 4:02 PM on April 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
Faze,
First I think it is important to note that many people weren't raising in an environment that taught them to think logically about their expenses or gave them any guidance as to nutrition or cheap and fun ways to save time.
And individually:
Cigarettes are addictive and quitting when you work 60 hours a week might seem more effort than it is worth (I disagree, vehemently oppose cigarettes, and yet I am not a poor smoker)
Many people consider meat as a staple in a meal whereby if you don't have a bit of meat for dinner you don't feel like you are eating enough. Beyond this, everyone should have a basic amount of protein and while there are non-meat sources (specifically eggs and milk for complete proteins) meat helps satisfy this requirement. As a side note to this, while cooking one's own food is often cheap and healthy, some people don't know how or don't want to cook after working for 12 hours that day.
Sugary food or refined carbs are often the cheapest foods. http://www.mymoneyblog.com/what-does-200-calories-cost-the-economics-of-obesity.html
Exercise, too, can be explained away by a lack of will after work and often jobs are too far away to walk or bike to them.
Drugs are often addictive and require serious detoxing, often with a good support system that many people do not have.
If one is surrounded only by losers and yet wants to be at all social, losers are the best bet.
I completely agree that these shouldn't be excuses, however, these are often the realities of life for people in poverty. When you are struggling to hang on and left school in 7th grade, you are not well-equipped to proactively change your life for the better. Society instead must recognize that being poor, in fact, comes with a lot more problems than just not owning a jet ski.
Championing personal responsibility is not a proper response when the game is rigged: People are born into inequality and experience that inequality in myriad ways that ripple through their existence.
posted by Wyatt at 4:19 PM on April 8, 2011 [9 favorites]
First I think it is important to note that many people weren't raising in an environment that taught them to think logically about their expenses or gave them any guidance as to nutrition or cheap and fun ways to save time.
And individually:
Cigarettes are addictive and quitting when you work 60 hours a week might seem more effort than it is worth (I disagree, vehemently oppose cigarettes, and yet I am not a poor smoker)
Many people consider meat as a staple in a meal whereby if you don't have a bit of meat for dinner you don't feel like you are eating enough. Beyond this, everyone should have a basic amount of protein and while there are non-meat sources (specifically eggs and milk for complete proteins) meat helps satisfy this requirement. As a side note to this, while cooking one's own food is often cheap and healthy, some people don't know how or don't want to cook after working for 12 hours that day.
Sugary food or refined carbs are often the cheapest foods. http://www.mymoneyblog.com/what-does-200-calories-cost-the-economics-of-obesity.html
Exercise, too, can be explained away by a lack of will after work and often jobs are too far away to walk or bike to them.
Drugs are often addictive and require serious detoxing, often with a good support system that many people do not have.
If one is surrounded only by losers and yet wants to be at all social, losers are the best bet.
I completely agree that these shouldn't be excuses, however, these are often the realities of life for people in poverty. When you are struggling to hang on and left school in 7th grade, you are not well-equipped to proactively change your life for the better. Society instead must recognize that being poor, in fact, comes with a lot more problems than just not owning a jet ski.
Championing personal responsibility is not a proper response when the game is rigged: People are born into inequality and experience that inequality in myriad ways that ripple through their existence.
posted by Wyatt at 4:19 PM on April 8, 2011 [9 favorites]
This is basically Rat Park writ large... and, IMHO, it's the number-one elephant in the American room. Our obsession with "personal responsibility" above all (a la Faze) makes it impossible to see what social responsibility can do: we can help generate good choices and strong, happy people by eliminating meaningless stress from the social environment, so that we can spend our limited energy tackling the stressful-but-rewarding challenges which actually improve our lives.
Instead, we've convinced ourselves that these pointless, chickenshit stressors are the ultimate source of good choices ("people won't work if they don't have to!" "no such thing as a free ride!") Yet the bad choices rise like a wave... so clearly we need more stress! Pensions are for the lazy! Work 12 hours a day or starve! Worry about getting sick or hurt because you can't afford the doctor! You -- yes, you! Why aren't you making superfast supercheap doubleplusgood ~fun~ choices at the supermarket? It's your fault if you don't! etc.
Something has to give... and, unfortunately, Rat Park suggests that something will be us: our health, our sanity, our economy, our families and our happiness. You can't build towers on sand; we need bedrock at the bottom, whether we think the folks at the bottom are "responsible" for being there or not.
posted by vorfeed at 4:26 PM on April 8, 2011 [23 favorites]
Instead, we've convinced ourselves that these pointless, chickenshit stressors are the ultimate source of good choices ("people won't work if they don't have to!" "no such thing as a free ride!") Yet the bad choices rise like a wave... so clearly we need more stress! Pensions are for the lazy! Work 12 hours a day or starve! Worry about getting sick or hurt because you can't afford the doctor! You -- yes, you! Why aren't you making superfast supercheap doubleplusgood ~fun~ choices at the supermarket? It's your fault if you don't! etc.
Something has to give... and, unfortunately, Rat Park suggests that something will be us: our health, our sanity, our economy, our families and our happiness. You can't build towers on sand; we need bedrock at the bottom, whether we think the folks at the bottom are "responsible" for being there or not.
posted by vorfeed at 4:26 PM on April 8, 2011 [23 favorites]
So what Jackson found was that these unhealthy behaviors (maybe in combination with healthy behaviors, maybe not) were correlated with improved psychiatric health. Apparently, for many black Americans, stopping smoking, stopping eating meat, stopping eating sugar, etc, did not improve life sufficiently. It took cigarettes.
Let me ask you this, nathan v, did he have a control group composed of African-Americans who coped with stress by adopting healthier lifestyles? This study is racism, pure and simple. He's saying that ribs, Ripple and Newport cigarettes are folk remedies that can sooth the psychiatric suffering of poverty and unemployment in the African-American soul, but when white people do 'em, they're just nasty habits. There must be something magical about those poor African-Americans. Let's not ask them to take responsibility for their health.
posted by Faze at 4:30 PM on April 8, 2011
Let me ask you this, nathan v, did he have a control group composed of African-Americans who coped with stress by adopting healthier lifestyles? This study is racism, pure and simple. He's saying that ribs, Ripple and Newport cigarettes are folk remedies that can sooth the psychiatric suffering of poverty and unemployment in the African-American soul, but when white people do 'em, they're just nasty habits. There must be something magical about those poor African-Americans. Let's not ask them to take responsibility for their health.
posted by Faze at 4:30 PM on April 8, 2011
"Let me ask you this, nathan v, did he have a control group composed of African-Americans who coped with stress by adopting healthier lifestyles? This study is racism, pure and simple. He's saying that ribs, Ripple and Newport cigarettes are folk remedies that can sooth the psychiatric suffering of poverty and unemployment in the African-American soul, but when white people do 'em, they're just nasty habits. There must be something magical about those poor African-Americans. Let's not ask them to take responsibility for their health."
The actual article is behind a paywall. I've read the abstract. It sounds reasonable. It's a comparison of survey data involving "unhealthy behaviors," stress levels, and depression. It sounds as if sets of responses from each survey participant are evaluated, in order to provide a little bit of grounds for causality (not a lot-- it's still possible that there are other factors that lead to both depression and reduced incidence of unhealthy behaviors in black Americans). While unhealthy behaviors are not defined in the abstract, I am assuming that they include things like cigarette smoking, so the inverse-- not smoking-- is examined via that measure. The same probably goes for drug use and physical activity. I doubt that some of the other things you mentioned are looked at, as eating meat or sugar is not generally considered an unhealthy behavior. Social interaction (going to church, e.g.) or rather the lack thereof might be included, as it is a widely recognized factor.
As to whether this study is racism, I don't care, and I think it's a silly and inflammatory accusation to level unless you know a great deal more about the situation than I do-- in which case I would love to hear more. Black Americans and white Americans behave differently (in aggregate, not necessarily in particular). For instance, white people walk like this and black people walk like this. Seriously, though, there are greatly different incidences of things like smoking in these populations.
I don't anywhere see anybody saying that smoking is a nasty habit that's okay for black people but not for white people.
posted by nathan v at 4:48 PM on April 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
The actual article is behind a paywall. I've read the abstract. It sounds reasonable. It's a comparison of survey data involving "unhealthy behaviors," stress levels, and depression. It sounds as if sets of responses from each survey participant are evaluated, in order to provide a little bit of grounds for causality (not a lot-- it's still possible that there are other factors that lead to both depression and reduced incidence of unhealthy behaviors in black Americans). While unhealthy behaviors are not defined in the abstract, I am assuming that they include things like cigarette smoking, so the inverse-- not smoking-- is examined via that measure. The same probably goes for drug use and physical activity. I doubt that some of the other things you mentioned are looked at, as eating meat or sugar is not generally considered an unhealthy behavior. Social interaction (going to church, e.g.) or rather the lack thereof might be included, as it is a widely recognized factor.
As to whether this study is racism, I don't care, and I think it's a silly and inflammatory accusation to level unless you know a great deal more about the situation than I do-- in which case I would love to hear more. Black Americans and white Americans behave differently (in aggregate, not necessarily in particular). For instance, white people walk like this and black people walk like this. Seriously, though, there are greatly different incidences of things like smoking in these populations.
I don't anywhere see anybody saying that smoking is a nasty habit that's okay for black people but not for white people.
posted by nathan v at 4:48 PM on April 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
"Asking people to take responsibility for their health" was one of the single most dominant social messages of the latter half of the 20th century, and continues to be one of the most dominant during the 21st. Yet our health is very poor, and getting worse all the time. Clearly, asking people to take responsibility for their health isn't working, at least not nearly well enough to stem the tide. And given our starting point of very bad health, asking people to take responsibility for their health harder is even more unlikely to work now than it was in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and 00s... when it didn't work.
At some point, we need to take actual responsibility and create social policies which actually improve our collective health, rather than demanding "responsibility" over and over and expecting a different outcome.
posted by vorfeed at 4:51 PM on April 8, 2011 [15 favorites]
At some point, we need to take actual responsibility and create social policies which actually improve our collective health, rather than demanding "responsibility" over and over and expecting a different outcome.
posted by vorfeed at 4:51 PM on April 8, 2011 [15 favorites]
I'm not even poor, but constantly wonder at stuff like this: who the fuck wants to live longer?
Hope I die before I get old..
posted by spitbull at 5:58 PM on April 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
Hope I die before I get old..
posted by spitbull at 5:58 PM on April 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
Here's my stress reliever: drink a six pack of beer and go biking at night (helmet and lights and all that). I think that risk, confronting the world on your own terms and having real experiences beats depression, stress and paranoia. After all, a true depressive is never surprised. Surprise yourself for christ's sake!
posted by thebestusernameever at 6:13 PM on April 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by thebestusernameever at 6:13 PM on April 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
Yet the bad choices rise like a wave... so clearly we need more stress! Pensions are for the lazy! Work 12 hours a day or starve! Worry about getting sick or hurt because you can't afford the doctor! You -- yes, you! Why aren't you making superfast supercheap doubleplusgood ~fun~ choices at the supermarket? It's your fault if you don't! etc.
I really think some people fetishise hard work and suffering. Well, when the hard work and suffering is done by other people, preferably lower class people who don't deserve the right to be happy. It builds character! And poor people are obviously lacking in character (otherwise they'd be pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, duh), so we'd better make sure they've got crappy conditions to live in so they've got the opportunity to toughen up for the good of the nation. It's for their own good, really.
Never mind that really it just ensures that the working poor are too damn tired to complain about corporate theft or government corruption.
posted by harriet vane at 7:11 PM on April 8, 2011 [7 favorites]
I really think some people fetishise hard work and suffering. Well, when the hard work and suffering is done by other people, preferably lower class people who don't deserve the right to be happy. It builds character! And poor people are obviously lacking in character (otherwise they'd be pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, duh), so we'd better make sure they've got crappy conditions to live in so they've got the opportunity to toughen up for the good of the nation. It's for their own good, really.
Never mind that really it just ensures that the working poor are too damn tired to complain about corporate theft or government corruption.
posted by harriet vane at 7:11 PM on April 8, 2011 [7 favorites]
Ok--- Let me esplain. No there is no time, let me sum up:
We can basically measure how the body responds to stress. It **ks up the body. We can measure inflammatory cytokines, immunoglobins, hormones, enzymes, etc--- the bodies molecular and cellular processes function differently after a stressor-- long day at work, rejection by peers, abuse, assault, exercise, divorce, conflict, lack of opportunity etc etc etc...
If you understand positive and negative feedback it's not particularly complicated. When a stressful situation occurs the body sends out molecules of action to deal with the stressful situation--- upregulation of positive feedback ensues and you're supposed to fix the problem: run from or defeat the predator, calm down an angry human, produce a needed item to accomplish a goal, solve a problem etc. When that process is complete, the body says, "You're done!" and inflammation levels rise to heal tissue damage from muscles used. These processes ultimately culminate in negative feedback, the body sends out a host of hormones, enzymes and molecules that return the body to resting state.
When another situation arises before the tissues have adequately healed from the first situation the system is overwhelmed and a degenerative process can ensue.
Things that assist in the healing process involve meaningful interaction with humans, healthy sleep, adequate water, phytonutrients, amino acids, proper diet and nutrition, avoiding food additives, recuperating fully before embarking on another intensive project. Things like exercise increase inflammation but if the body heals fully it builds itself up to withstand more. However if you exercise again BEFORE your body has finished repairing the tissue damage, then you skrew yourself up.
It can cause scaring in the muscles that prevent circulation and tissue repair. The same, emotional stress knocks the HPA and brain function out of wack. If something stressful happens and then happens again BEFORE the HPA has had time to return to normal function, then it pushes HPA function further off kilter. Further more, this process can basically be passed on to offstpring through epigenetic changes. If a mother has high levels of inflammation in the womb, the child will have development affected, not to mention high levels of HPA dysregulation can change gene expression itself.
Inflammation and obesity are linked, however causality has not been proven. Due to the fact that eliminating excess body fat reduces inflammatory cytokines, it would seem that the fat itself causes inflammation, however life stressors, poor diet, adversity, toxins--- basically poor conditions in general also cause inflammation. Inflammatory conditions that have become severe tend to cause fatigue, depression, exhaustion, mental illness.
When a system is exhausted, doing ANYTHING extra may be too much. And further more those easy things may be addressing something that can't be fixed by diet and exercise, such as social isolation, misery at work, exausting work load, lack of supportive family, like of engaging activities (environmental enrichment anybody?), past traumas that need to be suppressed, cronically having to hear people yell and be frustrated----
And poor people can't afford therapy. They can afford a once a month med check. I'm not in ANY way suggesting we shouldn't, every one of us, do the best we can in our lives.
But to pressume that we know what someone else can or can't do, or whether or not they might not be doing the best they can in that situation is not only a guess, you could be horribly wrong.
what if you DO make more people miserable by making them feel guilty about how they are getting through their days? What if in fact, you are doing people a DISSERVICE and making their health worse? What if, quite literally, they are in fact getting through the day with what they are doing? I want everyone to eat organic food all the time and exercise and do yoga and hug each other and share emotions and feel supported and have social meals together and get to do fun social activites--- but jesus I do the best I can and even as a health nut it's a struggle.
Further more, psych meds have some health affects do, do you suggest people not use those either? (Personally I don't like them, but also damn well won't judge someone for grabbing whatever helps them get through this reality. I'm all about the harm reduction.)
posted by xarnop at 7:58 PM on April 8, 2011 [10 favorites]
We can basically measure how the body responds to stress. It **ks up the body. We can measure inflammatory cytokines, immunoglobins, hormones, enzymes, etc--- the bodies molecular and cellular processes function differently after a stressor-- long day at work, rejection by peers, abuse, assault, exercise, divorce, conflict, lack of opportunity etc etc etc...
If you understand positive and negative feedback it's not particularly complicated. When a stressful situation occurs the body sends out molecules of action to deal with the stressful situation--- upregulation of positive feedback ensues and you're supposed to fix the problem: run from or defeat the predator, calm down an angry human, produce a needed item to accomplish a goal, solve a problem etc. When that process is complete, the body says, "You're done!" and inflammation levels rise to heal tissue damage from muscles used. These processes ultimately culminate in negative feedback, the body sends out a host of hormones, enzymes and molecules that return the body to resting state.
When another situation arises before the tissues have adequately healed from the first situation the system is overwhelmed and a degenerative process can ensue.
Things that assist in the healing process involve meaningful interaction with humans, healthy sleep, adequate water, phytonutrients, amino acids, proper diet and nutrition, avoiding food additives, recuperating fully before embarking on another intensive project. Things like exercise increase inflammation but if the body heals fully it builds itself up to withstand more. However if you exercise again BEFORE your body has finished repairing the tissue damage, then you skrew yourself up.
It can cause scaring in the muscles that prevent circulation and tissue repair. The same, emotional stress knocks the HPA and brain function out of wack. If something stressful happens and then happens again BEFORE the HPA has had time to return to normal function, then it pushes HPA function further off kilter. Further more, this process can basically be passed on to offstpring through epigenetic changes. If a mother has high levels of inflammation in the womb, the child will have development affected, not to mention high levels of HPA dysregulation can change gene expression itself.
Inflammation and obesity are linked, however causality has not been proven. Due to the fact that eliminating excess body fat reduces inflammatory cytokines, it would seem that the fat itself causes inflammation, however life stressors, poor diet, adversity, toxins--- basically poor conditions in general also cause inflammation. Inflammatory conditions that have become severe tend to cause fatigue, depression, exhaustion, mental illness.
When a system is exhausted, doing ANYTHING extra may be too much. And further more those easy things may be addressing something that can't be fixed by diet and exercise, such as social isolation, misery at work, exausting work load, lack of supportive family, like of engaging activities (environmental enrichment anybody?), past traumas that need to be suppressed, cronically having to hear people yell and be frustrated----
And poor people can't afford therapy. They can afford a once a month med check. I'm not in ANY way suggesting we shouldn't, every one of us, do the best we can in our lives.
But to pressume that we know what someone else can or can't do, or whether or not they might not be doing the best they can in that situation is not only a guess, you could be horribly wrong.
what if you DO make more people miserable by making them feel guilty about how they are getting through their days? What if in fact, you are doing people a DISSERVICE and making their health worse? What if, quite literally, they are in fact getting through the day with what they are doing? I want everyone to eat organic food all the time and exercise and do yoga and hug each other and share emotions and feel supported and have social meals together and get to do fun social activites--- but jesus I do the best I can and even as a health nut it's a struggle.
Further more, psych meds have some health affects do, do you suggest people not use those either? (Personally I don't like them, but also damn well won't judge someone for grabbing whatever helps them get through this reality. I'm all about the harm reduction.)
posted by xarnop at 7:58 PM on April 8, 2011 [10 favorites]
Also, WE NEED EACH OTHER. People survive illness better with social support. We are a social species and used to share cooking duties in households and chore dutys, we just weren't meant to do all of this stuff by ourselves in our little boxes on the hillside made of ticky tacky. People became more isolated after package foods and social meals between neighbors and families became less common, but I think some of this idea of fatigue is the fact that maybe people just aren't mean to work all day and also cook meals and also clean and also do laundry, and also raise kids, and also to do it all alone or with one other adult who is also working all day and exhausted.
posted by xarnop at 8:03 PM on April 8, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by xarnop at 8:03 PM on April 8, 2011 [6 favorites]
So "bad" is good...kind of. What would be better? Maybe finding ways to cope that don't involve paying vendors high prices for addictive substances? In most any modern environment, not just that of the po' folks, that would be downright revolutionary.
posted by telstar at 8:29 PM on April 8, 2011
posted by telstar at 8:29 PM on April 8, 2011
I feel better about my vidyagame addiction already.
posted by LogicalDash at 8:31 PM on April 8, 2011
posted by LogicalDash at 8:31 PM on April 8, 2011
"I think some of this idea of fatigue is the fact that maybe people just aren't mean to work all day and also cook meals and also clean and also do laundry, and also raise kids, and also to do it all alone or with one other adult who is also working all day and exhausted,"
at least while still being healthy. The poor have always tended to deal with a shitty reality, but they also rarely went to school or were expected to get high paying jobs because it was pressumed that poverty would have impaired they ability to function the same as the wealthy, a myth that was probably born of some measure of truth.
If nothing else, if we know we don't want to help them out of poverty -- CAN WE AT LEAST LET THEM FIND WHAT MAKES THEM HAPPY WITHOUT BEING JUDGEMENTAL ASSHOLES ABOUT IT?
posted by xarnop at 8:46 PM on April 8, 2011 [4 favorites]
at least while still being healthy. The poor have always tended to deal with a shitty reality, but they also rarely went to school or were expected to get high paying jobs because it was pressumed that poverty would have impaired they ability to function the same as the wealthy, a myth that was probably born of some measure of truth.
If nothing else, if we know we don't want to help them out of poverty -- CAN WE AT LEAST LET THEM FIND WHAT MAKES THEM HAPPY WITHOUT BEING JUDGEMENTAL ASSHOLES ABOUT IT?
posted by xarnop at 8:46 PM on April 8, 2011 [4 favorites]
....there is increasing evidence that affectionate communication such as hugging and the like has biological health benefits.
It may work for some but not all. Not to be argumentative (honest), but contrary to the advice of MetaTalk, not all of us need a hug.
posted by rain at 8:57 PM on April 8, 2011
It may work for some but not all. Not to be argumentative (honest), but contrary to the advice of MetaTalk, not all of us need a hug.
posted by rain at 8:57 PM on April 8, 2011
LOL I totally believe you rain. Nonetheless I'll be excited to see more research of the like. Hopefully, such research will not cause anyone who does not want to be hugged to feel pressured to be hugged which sounds grotesque and traumatizing. It's actually something that bugs me when I see people who do yoga, teach classes that involve movements and the like-- when teachers pressume they can touch people and that anyone who doesn't like that is offensive to them, or needs to work through their issues to realize the wonderfulness of being touched by a yoga teacher/friend/dance teacher etc...
This girl in my yoga class told the teacher, "I don't like being touched, please don't touch me." with no explenation whatsoever and I thought it was pretty badass.
posted by xarnop at 9:50 PM on April 8, 2011
This girl in my yoga class told the teacher, "I don't like being touched, please don't touch me." with no explenation whatsoever and I thought it was pretty badass.
posted by xarnop at 9:50 PM on April 8, 2011
Not to mention that there was that other study that certain expressions of conciousness are their own burden, resulting in "smarter people drink more." I think this hit the blue.
My own take: reasonable intelligence and sanity in a crazy, stupid world can easily lead to to these sorts of "destructive" behaviours.
We are complex creatures, and we have built a complex culture.
posted by clvrmnky at 3:59 AM on April 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
My own take: reasonable intelligence and sanity in a crazy, stupid world can easily lead to to these sorts of "destructive" behaviours.
We are complex creatures, and we have built a complex culture.
posted by clvrmnky at 3:59 AM on April 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
Well, having been poor, and around poor people of several races and cultures, I can tell you my experience is that people will say, 'What better have I got to look forward to?' and they have a point. There is no pie in the sky, they are not going to win the lotto and be rich, no one is leaving them a fortune. So a lot of poor people take happiness as they define it where they find it.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 9:39 PM on April 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 9:39 PM on April 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
Related to the idea of taking happiness where it can be found, I think, is that giving up a small source of pleasure requires a disproportionate level of deprivation. Suppose somebody is in the habit of buying a candy bar every afternoon at work for $1, and they decide to give that up. After a month of what feels like daily self-deprivation and lack of what had been one of the small pleasures in this person's life, they're probably not perceiving any improvement in their health and they've saved a whopping $20. It's not hard to see how they would choose to say "fuck it, hand me that Snickers."
I think a lot of the "stop buying lattes and your financial problems will be solved!" finger-wagging advice comes from an orientation that poor people shouldn't have pleasure because they don't deserve it.
posted by Lexica at 10:15 AM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
I think a lot of the "stop buying lattes and your financial problems will be solved!" finger-wagging advice comes from an orientation that poor people shouldn't have pleasure because they don't deserve it.
posted by Lexica at 10:15 AM on April 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
The negative physical effects of stress on the body are very real. Just take a look at Obama, he looks about 10 years older, as does every president after their first term in office. His hair is getting grey and he looks frail.
posted by silentsender at 12:54 PM on April 10, 2011
posted by silentsender at 12:54 PM on April 10, 2011
This reminds me of the words of King Lemuel in Proverbs 31:
1 The words of King Lemuel, the oracle which his mother taught him:
2 What, O my son? / And what, O son of my womb? / And what, O son of my vows?
3 Do not give your strength to women, / Or your ways to that which destroys kings.
4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, / It is not for kings to drink wine, / Or for rulers to desire strong drink,
5 For they will drink and forget what is decreed, / And pervert the rights of all the afflicted.
6 Give strong drink to him who is perishing, / And wine to him whose life is bitter.
7 Let him drink and forget his poverty / And remember his trouble no more.
8 Open your mouth for the mute, / For the rights of all the unfortunate.
9 Open your mouth, judge righteously, / And defend the rights of the afflicted and needy.
posted by nTeleKy at 3:48 PM on April 10, 2011
1 The words of King Lemuel, the oracle which his mother taught him:
2 What, O my son? / And what, O son of my womb? / And what, O son of my vows?
3 Do not give your strength to women, / Or your ways to that which destroys kings.
4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, / It is not for kings to drink wine, / Or for rulers to desire strong drink,
5 For they will drink and forget what is decreed, / And pervert the rights of all the afflicted.
6 Give strong drink to him who is perishing, / And wine to him whose life is bitter.
7 Let him drink and forget his poverty / And remember his trouble no more.
8 Open your mouth for the mute, / For the rights of all the unfortunate.
9 Open your mouth, judge righteously, / And defend the rights of the afflicted and needy.
posted by nTeleKy at 3:48 PM on April 10, 2011
« Older 20 Even Stranger and More Wonderful Books | Fake Plastic Crowds Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
Obligatory Kinks
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:50 PM on April 8, 2011