Pssst. There's a plate missing a clue over at Cloud Gate!
April 27, 2011 10:12 AM Subscribe
Where is the Puck? The Chicago Blackhawks won the Stanley Cup last season for the first time in 50 years. But what happened to the puck that was used to score what some are calling the "most famous goal in Chicago sports history?"
Guys I can still hear the wailing on the streets from my office on the 20th floor.
posted by shakespeherian at 10:21 AM on April 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by shakespeherian at 10:21 AM on April 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
Speaking as a neutral observer who saw that game live (on television), that goal was surreal. Even the players were confused. Watch #16 on the Blackhawks standing in front of the net; for three seconds after the puck goes in he stands there, not quite sure if the game is over or not.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:22 AM on April 27, 2011
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:22 AM on April 27, 2011
Yes, the timing of this stings a bit.
DePorter is sort of known for this stuff around here. He (in?)famously bought the Bartman ball and Sosa's corked bat, which were then blown up and CAT scanned, respectively.
posted by Terminal Verbosity at 10:24 AM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
DePorter is sort of known for this stuff around here. He (in?)famously bought the Bartman ball and Sosa's corked bat, which were then blown up and CAT scanned, respectively.
posted by Terminal Verbosity at 10:24 AM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
How sad that Chicago couldn't buy a second cup this year.
I grew up in the Chicago area and aside from rich white kids in north shore Ferris-Bueller land suburbs, nobody gave a shit about hockey. Then last year my facebook feed is lousy with bandwagon riders who suddenly really, truly supported the Hawks all along. Typical American fans. It was Tampa Bay redux. In Canada, they'd be buzzing about the Cup for years. Fuck, we renamed a stretch of 17th Ave in Calgary "the Red Mile" to commemorate the impromptu celebrations that saw 300,000 Flames fans on the street after each playoff win- in a year that they LOST the final game. That was after LOSING the cup. Imagine WINNING it.
GO CANUCKS! Bring the Cup home WHERE IT FUCKING BELONGS.
posted by ethnomethodologist at 10:27 AM on April 27, 2011 [11 favorites]
I grew up in the Chicago area and aside from rich white kids in north shore Ferris-Bueller land suburbs, nobody gave a shit about hockey. Then last year my facebook feed is lousy with bandwagon riders who suddenly really, truly supported the Hawks all along. Typical American fans. It was Tampa Bay redux. In Canada, they'd be buzzing about the Cup for years. Fuck, we renamed a stretch of 17th Ave in Calgary "the Red Mile" to commemorate the impromptu celebrations that saw 300,000 Flames fans on the street after each playoff win- in a year that they LOST the final game. That was after LOSING the cup. Imagine WINNING it.
GO CANUCKS! Bring the Cup home WHERE IT FUCKING BELONGS.
posted by ethnomethodologist at 10:27 AM on April 27, 2011 [11 favorites]
Bartman ball
Shut up shut up SHUT UP SHUT UP
posted by shakespeherian at 10:27 AM on April 27, 2011 [2 favorites]
Shut up shut up SHUT UP SHUT UP
posted by shakespeherian at 10:27 AM on April 27, 2011 [2 favorites]
Well, no wonder they lost it. Even the *$ing camera guy covering the game had a tough time keeping track of it (to say nothing of the Flyers' goalie).
posted by schmod at 10:29 AM on April 27, 2011
posted by schmod at 10:29 AM on April 27, 2011
GO CANUCKS! May the Predators have mercy on their souls.
posted by drezdn at 10:31 AM on April 27, 2011
posted by drezdn at 10:31 AM on April 27, 2011
Did anyone ask Chris Pronger?
posted by Hoopo at 10:32 AM on April 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by Hoopo at 10:32 AM on April 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
> GO CANUCKS!
I'm a casual (at best) hockey fan, but I was glad Vancouver won last night. Partly because of innate Canadian chauvinism, but mostly because their fans had suffered enough. Kind of spooky how last night's game mirrored the Olympic gold medal game (gut-punch tying goal towards the end, winner in OT).
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:33 AM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm a casual (at best) hockey fan, but I was glad Vancouver won last night. Partly because of innate Canadian chauvinism, but mostly because their fans had suffered enough. Kind of spooky how last night's game mirrored the Olympic gold medal game (gut-punch tying goal towards the end, winner in OT).
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:33 AM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
As the article mentions, there are many missing pucks from important games out there. Kinda surprised this one wasn't mentioned, although it has been solved.
posted by never used baby shoes at 10:34 AM on April 27, 2011
posted by never used baby shoes at 10:34 AM on April 27, 2011
Bulgaroktonos: "I'm not sure if this timing is terrible or perfect."
Ack. Sorry. I didn't realize they ended their season last night until just now. (Am not much of a hockey fan.)
posted by zarq at 10:38 AM on April 27, 2011
Ack. Sorry. I didn't realize they ended their season last night until just now. (Am not much of a hockey fan.)
posted by zarq at 10:38 AM on April 27, 2011
Mysterious and interesting. I got a good laugh out of that "in the garbage where it belongs" quote from Pronger.
posted by heatvision at 10:40 AM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by heatvision at 10:40 AM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Hoopo: "Did anyone ask Chris Pronger?"
Well.... "Pronger to FBI: Don't call me about missing puck"
posted by zarq at 10:40 AM on April 27, 2011
Well.... "Pronger to FBI: Don't call me about missing puck"
posted by zarq at 10:40 AM on April 27, 2011
ethnomethodologist: explain to me how the blackhawks "bought" their cup last year. They definitely went all in, and knowingly put themselves in a position wherein if they didn't win the cup they would be screwing themselves over this season (see all the players they lost), but it isnt like they had a payroll that was twice as much as the Flyers or any other team in the playoffs.
Well, us stupid pathetic American hockey fans with out fake hockey teams are going to enjoy still being in the playoffs and not coming within a hair of having the most epic choke in modern playoff history.
That cup is sure going to look good being paraded down Pennsylvania Ave...
posted by BobbyDigital at 10:41 AM on April 27, 2011
Well, us stupid pathetic American hockey fans with out fake hockey teams are going to enjoy still being in the playoffs and not coming within a hair of having the most epic choke in modern playoff history.
That cup is sure going to look good being paraded down Pennsylvania Ave...
posted by BobbyDigital at 10:41 AM on April 27, 2011
That cup is sure going to look good being paraded down Pennsylvania Woodward Ave...
posted by joe lisboa at 10:42 AM on April 27, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by joe lisboa at 10:42 AM on April 27, 2011 [5 favorites]
How sad that Chicago couldn't buy a second cup this year
Hey, they're as much under the cap system as anyone and have to live with the contracts they sign. Spending big bucks doesn't guarantee you a win, just ask the Rangers. Besides, it wasn't just their high-profile high-salary players that won that Cup, they had dynamite performances from talent brought up within their own system, a bunch of guys no one had ever heard of, a really bad rapper, and an undrafted rookie goalie.
Mind you, I probably wouldn't be as forgiving right now had they won last night.
posted by Hoopo at 10:43 AM on April 27, 2011
Hey, they're as much under the cap system as anyone and have to live with the contracts they sign. Spending big bucks doesn't guarantee you a win, just ask the Rangers. Besides, it wasn't just their high-profile high-salary players that won that Cup, they had dynamite performances from talent brought up within their own system, a bunch of guys no one had ever heard of, a really bad rapper, and an undrafted rookie goalie.
Mind you, I probably wouldn't be as forgiving right now had they won last night.
posted by Hoopo at 10:43 AM on April 27, 2011
I got a good laugh out of that "in the garbage where it belongs" quote from Pronger.
Chris Pronger is such a dirtbag that even when he says something that is objectively kind of funny, I picture him saying it with his stupid face on his stupid head and it just makes me hate him more.
He really is a very bad person who should be liked by no one.
posted by Copronymus at 10:49 AM on April 27, 2011 [8 favorites]
Chris Pronger is such a dirtbag that even when he says something that is objectively kind of funny, I picture him saying it with his stupid face on his stupid head and it just makes me hate him more.
He really is a very bad person who should be liked by no one.
posted by Copronymus at 10:49 AM on April 27, 2011 [8 favorites]
Bobbydigital, I trust you're not one of the DC bandwagon fans. Those people are the worst.
Slightly more on topic: I've often wondered why they don't put a small tracking chip in the puck (and presumably, the goal frame?), so the officials have another option on iffy goals. That would help in this situation too, possibly. Maybe?
posted by troika at 10:50 AM on April 27, 2011
Slightly more on topic: I've often wondered why they don't put a small tracking chip in the puck (and presumably, the goal frame?), so the officials have another option on iffy goals. That would help in this situation too, possibly. Maybe?
posted by troika at 10:50 AM on April 27, 2011
Slightly more on topic: I've often wondered why they don't put a small tracking chip in the puck (and presumably, the goal frame?), so the officials have another option on iffy goals. That would help in this situation too, possibly. Maybe?
Well, by the rules the entirety of the puck needs to be across the goal line for it to count, so they would probably need more than one rfid chip in the puck to make that determination. I imagine it's a more complicated proposal that it seems. It also probably wouldn't have helped in this case since rfid chips need to be in close proximity to a sensor to be picked up and they wouldn't have had them all over the building.
posted by ghharr at 10:57 AM on April 27, 2011
Well, us stupid pathetic American hockey fans with out fake hockey teams are going to enjoy still being in the playoffs and not coming within a hair of having the most epic choke in modern playoff history
Yeah that was pretty sad how Halak single-handedly beat the best offense in hockey, huh? I mean, there was a difference of 33 points in the standings between those teams. I bet some french guys made a lot of money that year, huh?
posted by Hoopo at 10:58 AM on April 27, 2011
Yeah that was pretty sad how Halak single-handedly beat the best offense in hockey, huh? I mean, there was a difference of 33 points in the standings between those teams. I bet some french guys made a lot of money that year, huh?
posted by Hoopo at 10:58 AM on April 27, 2011
This was interesting. I know pretty much nothing about hockey, but it seems odd that everyone involved thinks that both the goalie and the official – the two people closest to the puck – are lying.
posted by koeselitz at 11:02 AM on April 27, 2011
posted by koeselitz at 11:02 AM on April 27, 2011
I could imagine the goalie being out of sorts (he *had* just lost the Stanley Cup), but that linesman seems all kinds of shifty.
posted by troika at 11:05 AM on April 27, 2011
posted by troika at 11:05 AM on April 27, 2011
i ate it
it was delicious
so sweet
and so cold
posted by pyramid termite at 11:09 AM on April 27, 2011 [20 favorites]
it was delicious
so sweet
and so cold
posted by pyramid termite at 11:09 AM on April 27, 2011 [20 favorites]
Speaking of pucks...I am at a Ranger game with my three kids. I was given GREAT seats. Second row in a two row bow between the penalty boxes. My kids were young with my daughter being 6 and my sons being 5 and 4. One of the boys has to go to the bathroom. I am trying to figure out what to do with my daughter. We are in an enclosed box, actually what used to be part of the penalty box and there is a nice older gentleman sitting next to us. Next whistle I am prepared to make my move. I leave my daughter there with strict instructions to sit tight and not talk to anyone but the two guys in front of us and I grab the boys and start to head for the bathroom.
I am not more than 3 steps when I hear my daughter saying, "Excuse me. Excuse me sir." Ugh. I look over and the linesman had his back to the glass about two feet in front of my daughter waiting for the other linesman to drop the puck. It must have been a commercial timeout, because he turns to my daughter and says, "Hi." My daughter politely asks, "May I have a puck please?" He smiles, turns to his partner with a one minute gesture and skates the 5 feet to the penalty box, retrieves a puck from the refrigerator and skates to my daughter and hands it to her. With that, the other linesman looked at his partner with a "are you finished yet" look and the puck giver shrugged his shoulders and pointed at my daughter with his thumb. Linesman 2 smiled and dropped the puck. This all took about 20 seconds at most. I take the boys and come back and ask my daughter where she got the puck.
She tells me her 6 year old version of the story I just watched unfold. When I remind her I told her not to talk to anyone, she said that she was very polite. The two older gentleman were loving it. They told me they had been to 100s of games over the years and never seen anything remotely like that. But it continues. It was actually one of my boys birthday and he wanted a puck too. I decided I would buy him one on the way out. 2 minutes later, BANG a puck hits the glass behind our heads and he has his puck. My four year old starts crying. He wants a puck too. Of course. But I figure I am out of magic at this point.
Apparently, the penalty keeper had seen the whole thing as he was next to us separated by only the glass. He was repeatedly asked for sticks and pucks by kids at every stoppage of play and had politely said no can do. Finally, the game ends and I hear this banging in the glass next to me. Penalty keeper smiles at my son and hands him a puck.
I have no idea who has the Kane puck or who has the puck when the Rangers finally won their Cup after a long drought, but I know where all three of those pucks are from that game.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:13 AM on April 27, 2011 [261 favorites]
I am not more than 3 steps when I hear my daughter saying, "Excuse me. Excuse me sir." Ugh. I look over and the linesman had his back to the glass about two feet in front of my daughter waiting for the other linesman to drop the puck. It must have been a commercial timeout, because he turns to my daughter and says, "Hi." My daughter politely asks, "May I have a puck please?" He smiles, turns to his partner with a one minute gesture and skates the 5 feet to the penalty box, retrieves a puck from the refrigerator and skates to my daughter and hands it to her. With that, the other linesman looked at his partner with a "are you finished yet" look and the puck giver shrugged his shoulders and pointed at my daughter with his thumb. Linesman 2 smiled and dropped the puck. This all took about 20 seconds at most. I take the boys and come back and ask my daughter where she got the puck.
She tells me her 6 year old version of the story I just watched unfold. When I remind her I told her not to talk to anyone, she said that she was very polite. The two older gentleman were loving it. They told me they had been to 100s of games over the years and never seen anything remotely like that. But it continues. It was actually one of my boys birthday and he wanted a puck too. I decided I would buy him one on the way out. 2 minutes later, BANG a puck hits the glass behind our heads and he has his puck. My four year old starts crying. He wants a puck too. Of course. But I figure I am out of magic at this point.
Apparently, the penalty keeper had seen the whole thing as he was next to us separated by only the glass. He was repeatedly asked for sticks and pucks by kids at every stoppage of play and had politely said no can do. Finally, the game ends and I hear this banging in the glass next to me. Penalty keeper smiles at my son and hands him a puck.
I have no idea who has the Kane puck or who has the puck when the Rangers finally won their Cup after a long drought, but I know where all three of those pucks are from that game.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:13 AM on April 27, 2011 [261 favorites]
That cup is sure going to look good being paraded down Pennsylvania Woodward Ave... Broad St.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 11:25 AM on April 27, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by furiousxgeorge at 11:25 AM on April 27, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm a casual (at best) hockey fan, but I was glad Vancouver won last night. Partly because of innate Canadian chauvinism, but mostly because their fans had suffered enough. Kind of spooky how last night's game mirrored the Olympic gold medal game (gut-punch tying goal towards the end, winner in OT).posted by The Card Cheat at 10:33 AM on April 27 [+] [!]
Fucking Canucks never make it easy for themselves. I thought I was going to barf (ok - I actually did) when Chicago scored short handed. The excitement and relief when the Canucks won in OT washed over me in fucking waves.
It amazes me how much people love hockey in Vancouver. Even newcomers to the country fall under the game's spell. Missing pucks, sticks, and equiptment from historic hockey games go missing way more often than I'd expect. But doesn't this happen with other sports too?
posted by helmutdog at 11:27 AM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Fucking Canucks never make it easy for themselves. I thought I was going to barf (ok - I actually did) when Chicago scored short handed. The excitement and relief when the Canucks won in OT washed over me in fucking waves.
It amazes me how much people love hockey in Vancouver. Even newcomers to the country fall under the game's spell. Missing pucks, sticks, and equiptment from historic hockey games go missing way more often than I'd expect. But doesn't this happen with other sports too?
posted by helmutdog at 11:27 AM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
That cup is sure going to look good being paraded down Pennsylvania Woodward Ave... Broad St. Chippewa.....oh, shit.
posted by troika at 11:29 AM on April 27, 2011
posted by troika at 11:29 AM on April 27, 2011
That cup is sure going to look good being paraded down Pennsylvania Woodward Ave... Broad St.
Boy do I wish there was an anti-favorite button.
posted by inmediasres at 11:30 AM on April 27, 2011 [8 favorites]
Boy do I wish there was an anti-favorite button.
posted by inmediasres at 11:30 AM on April 27, 2011 [8 favorites]
Not to derail, but the city of Vancouver went absolutely ape shit last night.
posted by dobie at 11:32 AM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by dobie at 11:32 AM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Don't give a puck.
posted by anigbrowl at 11:38 AM on April 27, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by anigbrowl at 11:38 AM on April 27, 2011 [2 favorites]
That cup is sure going to look good being paraded down Pennsylvania Woodward Ave... Broad St. Lower Broadway
posted by ghharr at 11:38 AM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by ghharr at 11:38 AM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Despite living in Vancouver, I don't feel good about cheering for Vancouver. They have a nasty habit of giving up -- not even trying -- if they're down by a couple of goals in the third period (see games 4 and 5). It's infuriating, and cause for contempt.
Go Habs, go!
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 11:39 AM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Go Habs, go!
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 11:39 AM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow: "Despite living in Vancouver, I don't feel good about cheering for Vancouver. They have a nasty habit of giving up -- not even trying -- if they're down by a couple of goals in the third period (see games 4 and 5). It's infuriating, and cause for contempt."
Try being a Mets or a Cubs fan for a few decades then get back to me.
posted by zarq at 11:45 AM on April 27, 2011 [4 favorites]
Try being a Mets or a Cubs fan for a few decades then get back to me.
posted by zarq at 11:45 AM on April 27, 2011 [4 favorites]
Hey, you know, this is a pretty interesting story. If anyone wants to talk about it.
the lineman did it and he has naked pictures of the head of the referee's association.
posted by unixrat at 11:46 AM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
the lineman did it and he has naked pictures of the head of the referee's association.
posted by unixrat at 11:46 AM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
So... where *is* the puck? Isn't there some sort of chain of custody for things like this? Or can people just put stuff in their pockets and walk away? There are no official guidelines for what happens to a puck or a baseball or whatever after a championship game? Is it a free-for-all?
posted by tzikeh at 11:50 AM on April 27, 2011
posted by tzikeh at 11:50 AM on April 27, 2011
That cup is sure going to look good being paraded down Pennsylvania Woodward Ave... Broad St.
I'm just going to assume there's a Broad St. in or near Nashville.
posted by drezdn at 11:53 AM on April 27, 2011
I'm just going to assume there's a Broad St. in or near Nashville.
posted by drezdn at 11:53 AM on April 27, 2011
"Despite living in Vancouver, I don't feel good about cheering for Vancouver. They have a nasty habit of giving up -- not even trying -- if they're down by a couple of goals in the third period (see games 4 and 5). It's infuriating, and cause for contempt."
They do that when they're ahead too...
posted by jjb at 11:56 AM on April 27, 2011
They do that when they're ahead too...
posted by jjb at 11:56 AM on April 27, 2011
I'll give the Canucks credit for looking like they wanted it in game 7. That bodes well for them.
Does this puck have any identifying marks? Even if you found it, how would you know?
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 12:02 PM on April 27, 2011
Does this puck have any identifying marks? Even if you found it, how would you know?
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 12:02 PM on April 27, 2011
Really interesting read, thanks for posting. I was thrilled to see they mentioned the whole Doug Mientkiewich 2004 World Series Ball debacle as well, including a quote from Minky! He handled the whole thing pretty poorly, but man did they treat him like shit. I don't know why everyone was so surprised that a mercenary they traded for as a defensive replacement for Millar wouldn't have quite the same sense of team unity as they'd hoped.
A shame that relations between the team and both players part of the final play soured almost immediately after the series ended. Castiglione's call is (only slightly) less special as a result:
Swing and a ground ball, stabbed by Foulke. He has it. He underhands to first. And the Boston Red Sox are the World Champions. For the first time in 86 years, the Red Sox have won baseball's world championship. Can you believe it?
posted by SpiffyRob at 12:02 PM on April 27, 2011
A shame that relations between the team and both players part of the final play soured almost immediately after the series ended. Castiglione's call is (only slightly) less special as a result:
Swing and a ground ball, stabbed by Foulke. He has it. He underhands to first. And the Boston Red Sox are the World Champions. For the first time in 86 years, the Red Sox have won baseball's world championship. Can you believe it?
posted by SpiffyRob at 12:02 PM on April 27, 2011
There are no official guidelines for what happens to a puck or a baseball or whatever after a championship game? Is it a free-for-all?
As the article mentions it seems like sort of a hockey-specific thing. In baseball there is much more of a routine around keeping track of important balls, even if it's not officially codified in the rules. For instance, it's a tradition that when a player gets his first major league hit, they take the ball out of play and give it to him. In fact there's a well-known gag where someone pretends to throw the ball into the crowd while pocketing the real one.
posted by burnmp3s at 12:04 PM on April 27, 2011
As the article mentions it seems like sort of a hockey-specific thing. In baseball there is much more of a routine around keeping track of important balls, even if it's not officially codified in the rules. For instance, it's a tradition that when a player gets his first major league hit, they take the ball out of play and give it to him. In fact there's a well-known gag where someone pretends to throw the ball into the crowd while pocketing the real one.
posted by burnmp3s at 12:04 PM on April 27, 2011
The lineman does look like the best suspect. Would a minor conspiracy be inconceivable? A bribe paid to him by someone on the Flyers to steal the puck out of team rivalry? This caption was so conspicuous that I couldn't believe it wasn't addressed in the article proper:
Pronger irritated the Blackhawks by collecting the pucks after Chicago wins in Game 1 and Game 2.
I mean, am I dense, or doesn't that show a relevant pattern? This story makes it all out like a Big Deal, and it is interesting, but I can see this being nothing more than an accidentally famous example of the typical mode of behavior in a hockey game: if you're losing then you should invest your time in fucking with the other team. That's always great for morale and it ruins the other guys' concentration.
posted by heatvision at 12:10 PM on April 27, 2011
Pronger irritated the Blackhawks by collecting the pucks after Chicago wins in Game 1 and Game 2.
I mean, am I dense, or doesn't that show a relevant pattern? This story makes it all out like a Big Deal, and it is interesting, but I can see this being nothing more than an accidentally famous example of the typical mode of behavior in a hockey game: if you're losing then you should invest your time in fucking with the other team. That's always great for morale and it ruins the other guys' concentration.
posted by heatvision at 12:10 PM on April 27, 2011
Try being a Mets or a Cubs fan for a few decades then get back to me.
Vancouver hasn't had a Stanley Cup since 1915 when the Vancouver Millionaires won it. No cups for the Vancouver Canucks since they started in 1970.
In comparison:
Cubs last won the World Series in 1908.
Mets last won the World Series in 1969.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 12:11 PM on April 27, 2011
Vancouver hasn't had a Stanley Cup since 1915 when the Vancouver Millionaires won it. No cups for the Vancouver Canucks since they started in 1970.
In comparison:
Cubs last won the World Series in 1908.
Mets last won the World Series in 1969.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 12:11 PM on April 27, 2011
Spending big bucks doesn't guarantee you a win, just ask the Rangers.
Shut up.
posted by Splunge at 12:12 PM on April 27, 2011
Shut up.
posted by Splunge at 12:12 PM on April 27, 2011
Mets last won the World Series in 1969.
As any Red Sox fan can tell you, the Mets won the World Series in 1986.
posted by SpiffyRob at 12:16 PM on April 27, 2011 [5 favorites]
As any Red Sox fan can tell you, the Mets won the World Series in 1986.
posted by SpiffyRob at 12:16 PM on April 27, 2011 [5 favorites]
SpiffyRob: " As any Red Sox fan can tell you, the Mets won the World Series in 1986."
They eventually did good in return, though.
posted by zarq at 12:18 PM on April 27, 2011
They eventually did good in return, though.
posted by zarq at 12:18 PM on April 27, 2011
Does this puck have any identifying marks? Even if you found it, how would you know?
It would be marked Game 6. You still wouldn't know for sure though. You would just have to trust the story behind it.
posted by zephyr_words at 12:20 PM on April 27, 2011
It would be marked Game 6. You still wouldn't know for sure though. You would just have to trust the story behind it.
posted by zephyr_words at 12:20 PM on April 27, 2011
You'd probably be able to tell by the way it bends space around itself.
posted by shakespeherian at 12:32 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by shakespeherian at 12:32 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm a casual (at best) hockey fan, but I was glad Vancouver won last night. Partly because of innate Canadian chauvinism
See, I'm not sure if it's innate Canadian (regional) chauvinism - in this case the national chauvinism of being sick and tired of hearing Vancouverites brag about the scenery and the weather like that built it or something - but I found myself on Chicago's side.
In part it's because if I was picking a shinny team I'd take Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane over the Sedins in a heartbeat. The Blackhawks, to my mind, play a much more Canadian style of game - bruisy and grinding, lots of passion and drama and big-moment explosions of brilliance. (I don't care who you were cheering for - you either recognize that tying goal by Toews last night as a breathtaking athletic display or I don't want to talk to you about sports.)
I think I come by this admiration honestly; even when they eliminated the Flames the other year, I remember thinking, Well, at least they got beat by a good team fair and square. I don't feel, uh, remotely that way when the Canucks beat Calgary. In the preseason.
In any case, that was a helluva game last night. If you're the Canucks, blowing a 3-0 series lead and then a 1-0 Game 7 lead on a shorthanded goal in the final minutes before actually beating the No. 8 seed - well, that's either the moment you turn the corner and waltz to the finals or the last gasp before you collapse. Doesn't seem to be a lot of in-between in that team. Time'll tell.
Go Habs!
posted by gompa at 12:42 PM on April 27, 2011
See, I'm not sure if it's innate Canadian (regional) chauvinism - in this case the national chauvinism of being sick and tired of hearing Vancouverites brag about the scenery and the weather like that built it or something - but I found myself on Chicago's side.
In part it's because if I was picking a shinny team I'd take Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane over the Sedins in a heartbeat. The Blackhawks, to my mind, play a much more Canadian style of game - bruisy and grinding, lots of passion and drama and big-moment explosions of brilliance. (I don't care who you were cheering for - you either recognize that tying goal by Toews last night as a breathtaking athletic display or I don't want to talk to you about sports.)
I think I come by this admiration honestly; even when they eliminated the Flames the other year, I remember thinking, Well, at least they got beat by a good team fair and square. I don't feel, uh, remotely that way when the Canucks beat Calgary. In the preseason.
In any case, that was a helluva game last night. If you're the Canucks, blowing a 3-0 series lead and then a 1-0 Game 7 lead on a shorthanded goal in the final minutes before actually beating the No. 8 seed - well, that's either the moment you turn the corner and waltz to the finals or the last gasp before you collapse. Doesn't seem to be a lot of in-between in that team. Time'll tell.
Go Habs!
posted by gompa at 12:42 PM on April 27, 2011
Kind of spooky how last night's game mirrored the Olympic gold medal game (gut-punch tying goal towards the end, winner in OT).
You forgot the most important similarity, how Luongo looked extremely shaky in both games, nearly lost despite a dominant performance from his team, and will be remembered for being "clutch" in the game despite being his team's biggest weakness.
Good god Gillis did a very smart thing last year bringing in Ballard and Hamhuis because Luongo's rebound control was horrid all night.
posted by crashlanding at 12:51 PM on April 27, 2011
You forgot the most important similarity, how Luongo looked extremely shaky in both games, nearly lost despite a dominant performance from his team, and will be remembered for being "clutch" in the game despite being his team's biggest weakness.
Good god Gillis did a very smart thing last year bringing in Ballard and Hamhuis because Luongo's rebound control was horrid all night.
posted by crashlanding at 12:51 PM on April 27, 2011
As any Red Sox fan can tell you, the Mets won the World Series in 1986.
Fabulous steps up to the plate... swing and a miss, strike three, he's outta there.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 12:55 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Fabulous steps up to the plate... swing and a miss, strike three, he's outta there.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 12:55 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Does this puck have any identifying marks? Even if you found it, how would you know?
Using a special digital microscope and the HD broadcast of the game, a pair of agents from the FBI's Regional Computer Forensics Laboratory worked on their own time to freeze the puck in the four-minute overtime, zoom in on it and take digital pictures that could then be compared with the puck that the Philadelphia man was selling. The work was similar to what the FBI's Art Crimes Team does to catch individuals who create counterfeit artwork and forged autographs.posted by kirkaracha at 12:55 PM on April 27, 2011
"Every puck is going to wear differently," DePorter says. "It's going to get hit differently and have different marks, different DNA. It's like ballistics with a bullet. No two pucks are alike. If we could get a good image of this puck, we could compare it with any other puck people brought forward."
It took Rice and DePorter no more than five seconds to know the Philly puck wasn't the one.
"It wasn't even close," Rice said. "The two pucks didn't even have the same logos on them."
The Blackhawks, to my mind, play a much more Canadian style of game - bruisy and grinding, lots of passion and drama and big-moment explosions of brilliance.
Welcome to Metafilter, Don Cherry!
posted by ghharr at 12:55 PM on April 27, 2011 [9 favorites]
Welcome to Metafilter, Don Cherry!
posted by ghharr at 12:55 PM on April 27, 2011 [9 favorites]
Despite living in Vancouver, I don't feel good about cheering for Vancouver. They have a nasty habit of giving up -- not even trying -- if they're down by a couple of goals in the third period (see games 4 and 5). It's infuriating, and cause for contempt.
choke - verb /CHōk/ (in sports) Fail to perform at a crucial point of a game or contest owing to a failure of nerve. See: Roberto Luongo.
posted by t_dubs at 12:59 PM on April 27, 2011
choke - verb /CHōk/ (in sports) Fail to perform at a crucial point of a game or contest owing to a failure of nerve. See: Roberto Luongo.
posted by t_dubs at 12:59 PM on April 27, 2011
The Blackhawks, to my mind, play a much more Canadian style of game - bruisy and grinding, lots of passion and drama and big-moment explosions of brilliance.
In your mind only. Hits in the series: Vancouver, 281. Chicago, 207.
Vancouver badly outplayed them in 5 of 7 games, clearly showing more passion. The most "Canadian style" player on the ice was Ryan Kesler, an American, who game after game did everything that Don Cherry loves to flap his jaw about.
posted by gonna get a dog at 1:02 PM on April 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
In your mind only. Hits in the series: Vancouver, 281. Chicago, 207.
Vancouver badly outplayed them in 5 of 7 games, clearly showing more passion. The most "Canadian style" player on the ice was Ryan Kesler, an American, who game after game did everything that Don Cherry loves to flap his jaw about.
posted by gonna get a dog at 1:02 PM on April 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
Using a special digital microscope and the HD broadcast of the game, a pair of agents from the FBI's Regional Computer Forensics Laboratory worked on their own time to freeze the puck in the four-minute overtime, zoom in on it and take digital pictures that could then be compared with the puck that the Philadelphia man was selling.
I hope one of them at least said "Enhance" when they did this.
posted by drezdn at 1:03 PM on April 27, 2011 [8 favorites]
I hope one of them at least said "Enhance" when they did this.
posted by drezdn at 1:03 PM on April 27, 2011 [8 favorites]
You forgot the most important similarity, how Luongo looked extremely shaky in both games, nearly lost despite a dominant performance from his team, and will be remembered for being "clutch" in the game despite being his team's biggest weakness.
I'm not a big fan of Lou. I think he is overrated. With that said, the save he made on the PK in the beginning of OT was outstanding. He played like crap the whole series but he was overall very solid in that game 7.
Nice factoid for Canucks fans: The last Stanley Cup champion to go to 7 games in the first round was the 2001 Avalanche.
posted by zephyr_words at 1:03 PM on April 27, 2011
I'm not a big fan of Lou. I think he is overrated. With that said, the save he made on the PK in the beginning of OT was outstanding. He played like crap the whole series but he was overall very solid in that game 7.
Nice factoid for Canucks fans: The last Stanley Cup champion to go to 7 games in the first round was the 2001 Avalanche.
posted by zephyr_words at 1:03 PM on April 27, 2011
Welcome to Metafilter, Don Cherry!
Hey, even a frozen-in-time paleothug is a stopped clock twice a day or something. And his general characterization of the classic Canadian style of play - though he blows it up to the same technicolour vomit of his suit material - has some truth to it.
At the start of that series, I said to a friend, "So are the Sedins gonna vanish two games in and reinforce a longstanding prejudice about Scandinavian captains in the playoffs?" (See also Alfredsson, Daniel; Sundin, Mats; Zetterberg's the exception proving the rule or something.) Boy, was I way off on that one.
Now, why don't you buncha pinkos all ride your bikes down to the latte shop or something?
On preview: gonna get a dog, I'll grant you Kesler. I only saw the last two games in full, but he often seemed to me like he was on his own out there. But it could be the chauvinism or something clouding my view.
posted by gompa at 1:08 PM on April 27, 2011
Hey, even a frozen-in-time paleothug is a stopped clock twice a day or something. And his general characterization of the classic Canadian style of play - though he blows it up to the same technicolour vomit of his suit material - has some truth to it.
At the start of that series, I said to a friend, "So are the Sedins gonna vanish two games in and reinforce a longstanding prejudice about Scandinavian captains in the playoffs?" (See also Alfredsson, Daniel; Sundin, Mats; Zetterberg's the exception proving the rule or something.) Boy, was I way off on that one.
Now, why don't you buncha pinkos all ride your bikes down to the latte shop or something?
On preview: gonna get a dog, I'll grant you Kesler. I only saw the last two games in full, but he often seemed to me like he was on his own out there. But it could be the chauvinism or something clouding my view.
posted by gompa at 1:08 PM on April 27, 2011
heh, since everyone is already talking about last night's game, did you catch the interviews afterwards? They were talking to Bieksa and he reached under his jersey, pulled out the game winning puck, and made a joke about selling it on eBay. (after he presented it to Burrows).
It's not the Cup winner, but still it's a reminder that the puck gets snatched up all the time.
Best part of the article was the ref from the Olympic gold medal game, who travelled all the way back to Finland before 'realizing' he had in his shirt pocket.
posted by mannequito at 1:09 PM on April 27, 2011
It's not the Cup winner, but still it's a reminder that the puck gets snatched up all the time.
Best part of the article was the ref from the Olympic gold medal game, who travelled all the way back to Finland before 'realizing' he had in his shirt pocket.
posted by mannequito at 1:09 PM on April 27, 2011
Hits in the series: Vancouver, 281. Chicago, 207.
I'm pretty sure the differential there is made up entirely of cheap shots by Raffi Torres.
*ducks*
*gets elbowed jaw first into the boards*
posted by gompa at 1:14 PM on April 27, 2011 [4 favorites]
I'm pretty sure the differential there is made up entirely of cheap shots by Raffi Torres.
*ducks*
*gets elbowed jaw first into the boards*
posted by gompa at 1:14 PM on April 27, 2011 [4 favorites]
This photo will continue to be excellent long after this series is forgotten.
posted by SpiffyRob at 1:25 PM on April 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by SpiffyRob at 1:25 PM on April 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
OK, that's just crazy. I play outdoor ('field') hockey, and have never watched ice hockey before; how is anyone - players, officials, spectators, TV crew - supposed to be able to follow the puck? Admittedly, the quality of the footage on the YT link (from The Card Cheat, up at the top) isn't particularly good, but still... *mind, boggled*
posted by Chunder at 1:38 PM on April 27, 2011
posted by Chunder at 1:38 PM on April 27, 2011
> how is anyone - players, officials, spectators, TV crew - supposed to be able to follow the puck?
It used to be easier, but they stopped using radioactive pucks after all those dudes got cancer.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:42 PM on April 27, 2011 [2 favorites]
It used to be easier, but they stopped using radioactive pucks after all those dudes got cancer.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:42 PM on April 27, 2011 [2 favorites]
That cup is sure going to look good being paraded down Pennsylvania Ave... The usual route.
posted by docgonzo at 1:45 PM on April 27, 2011
posted by docgonzo at 1:45 PM on April 27, 2011
That cup is sure going to look good being paraded down ... The usual route.
Yeah, that won't be happening. GO BRUINS!
posted by rollbiz at 1:55 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yeah, that won't be happening. GO BRUINS!
posted by rollbiz at 1:55 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
That cup is sure going to look good being paraded down... er, San Jose doesn't have a signature street.
posted by ambient2 at 2:12 PM on April 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by ambient2 at 2:12 PM on April 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
WTP?
posted by StickyCarpet at 2:31 PM on April 27, 2011
posted by StickyCarpet at 2:31 PM on April 27, 2011
Personally I think it's ok for pucks to go missing. Why do we need to won and display everything? Your team just won the Cup or the Gold Medal, who cares where the frakkin' puck is?
posted by Vindaloo at 2:33 PM on April 27, 2011
posted by Vindaloo at 2:33 PM on April 27, 2011
Gompa, I don't get all the Sedin/Scandanavian hate. In this series, Daniel Sedin: 5 goals, -2. Toews (good old Canadian boy from Manitoba): 1 goal, -4. Which one of them didn't show up again? I think your love of the Flames is clouding your judgement :)
posted by reformedjerk at 2:37 PM on April 27, 2011
posted by reformedjerk at 2:37 PM on April 27, 2011
There's a video in the article comments that pretty clearly shows Miller picking the puck up. Pause at 0:45.
Someone else comments that they see a linesman at center putting it in his pocket, but I can't quite catch it.
posted by inmediasres at 2:45 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Someone else comments that they see a linesman at center putting it in his pocket, but I can't quite catch it.
posted by inmediasres at 2:45 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm not a big fan of Lou. I think he is overrated. With that said, the save he made on the PK in the beginning of OT was outstanding. He played like crap the whole series but he was overall very solid in that game 7.
I think he's let in some stinkers over the course of the series but it's not really fair to say "the whole series" when he pitched a shutout in game 1.
posted by juv3nal at 2:46 PM on April 27, 2011
I think he's let in some stinkers over the course of the series but it's not really fair to say "the whole series" when he pitched a shutout in game 1.
posted by juv3nal at 2:46 PM on April 27, 2011
The knock on the Sedins (and other Scandinavians) is that they put up big regular season numbers but then fail their teams in the big-game playoff clutch.
In the final four games of the series, as their President's Trophy-winning team came within a goal of what would've been one of the greatest chokes in NHL playoff history, the Sedin brothers, who'd finished No. 1 and No. 4 in regular season scoring, combined for three points on two goals - and one of those goals cut a 7-1 lead to 7-2.
Whereas Jonathan Toews, who will turn 23 in two days, has already won a Stanley Cup and an Olympic gold medal.
posted by gompa at 2:47 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
In the final four games of the series, as their President's Trophy-winning team came within a goal of what would've been one of the greatest chokes in NHL playoff history, the Sedin brothers, who'd finished No. 1 and No. 4 in regular season scoring, combined for three points on two goals - and one of those goals cut a 7-1 lead to 7-2.
Whereas Jonathan Toews, who will turn 23 in two days, has already won a Stanley Cup and an Olympic gold medal.
posted by gompa at 2:47 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Go Habs, go!
Looking forward to an all Canadian final ...
And seriously, the best team did win last night. Canucks stomped the Hawks in every category except goals. Were it not for Hawks' goalie Cory Crawford repeatedly standing on his head, the game would've been out of reach by the end of the 2nd period (to the tune of at least 3-0, more likely 5-0).
Full disclosure. I'm a Canucks fan and have been since game one way back when in 1970. I was 11 at the time and yeah, they lost. Trust me, the past 40 years have been, for lack of a better phrase, "character building". The past two years where the Blackhawks have more or less destroyed the Canucks in the playoffs have been particularly frustrating because, bluntly, I preferred the game that Chicago was playing. Wild, wide open, taking all kinds of beautiful chances. But this year, the Canucks had their measure. And entirely deserved that win last night.
Go Shmucks go! Take it all this year and I'll never call you that again.
posted by philip-random at 2:49 PM on April 27, 2011
Looking forward to an all Canadian final ...
And seriously, the best team did win last night. Canucks stomped the Hawks in every category except goals. Were it not for Hawks' goalie Cory Crawford repeatedly standing on his head, the game would've been out of reach by the end of the 2nd period (to the tune of at least 3-0, more likely 5-0).
Full disclosure. I'm a Canucks fan and have been since game one way back when in 1970. I was 11 at the time and yeah, they lost. Trust me, the past 40 years have been, for lack of a better phrase, "character building". The past two years where the Blackhawks have more or less destroyed the Canucks in the playoffs have been particularly frustrating because, bluntly, I preferred the game that Chicago was playing. Wild, wide open, taking all kinds of beautiful chances. But this year, the Canucks had their measure. And entirely deserved that win last night.
Go Shmucks go! Take it all this year and I'll never call you that again.
posted by philip-random at 2:49 PM on April 27, 2011
See also Alfredsson
I've seen you do this twice now. That's all I can stands and I can't stands no more. When did Alfredsson ever disappear? He's got 88 points including 45 goals in 107 playoff games. In 3 of his last 4 playoff appearances, he's been at or above a point per game, and when he led his team to the Stanley Cup Final he had 22 in 20 games. He has won a gold medal in the Olympics and led Sweden in points. That's some know-nothing knowing-not right there, you nothing-knower, and it sounds to me like you've never really watched him play. So he's not Steve Yzerman or Mario Lemieux or Sidney Crosby. No one would claim otherwise. But he's always been one of the Sens strongest players in both the regular season and playoffs whether he's got points on the score sheet or not. The man is determination incarnate, he's smart on offense and on defense, and on any given year there are at least 20 teams that would love to have had a player like Alfredsson to lead them. Maybe your theory is correct though and the Sens would have had the Cup with a Canadian like Joe Thorton or Jarome Iginla or Rick Nash.
posted by Hoopo at 2:50 PM on April 27, 2011 [2 favorites]
I've seen you do this twice now. That's all I can stands and I can't stands no more. When did Alfredsson ever disappear? He's got 88 points including 45 goals in 107 playoff games. In 3 of his last 4 playoff appearances, he's been at or above a point per game, and when he led his team to the Stanley Cup Final he had 22 in 20 games. He has won a gold medal in the Olympics and led Sweden in points. That's some know-nothing knowing-not right there, you nothing-knower, and it sounds to me like you've never really watched him play. So he's not Steve Yzerman or Mario Lemieux or Sidney Crosby. No one would claim otherwise. But he's always been one of the Sens strongest players in both the regular season and playoffs whether he's got points on the score sheet or not. The man is determination incarnate, he's smart on offense and on defense, and on any given year there are at least 20 teams that would love to have had a player like Alfredsson to lead them. Maybe your theory is correct though and the Sens would have had the Cup with a Canadian like Joe Thorton or Jarome Iginla or Rick Nash.
posted by Hoopo at 2:50 PM on April 27, 2011 [2 favorites]
Where is the Puck?
I warned them they would rue the day they scrapped FoxTrax.
posted by nathancaswell at 3:05 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
I warned them they would rue the day they scrapped FoxTrax.
posted by nathancaswell at 3:05 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Overall, this year's playoffs are three eliminations from being successful. Once San Jose, Nashville and Tampa Bay are eliminated I will be happy.
The teams I cheer for, in order:
Canucks (I've adopted them due to the fact that they are on TV here all season long)
Red Wings (I'm from Michigan)
All teams in climates where playing outdoors is possible within 50 or so miles.
Those damn southern teams that don't deserve to have hockey.
Those damn southern teams that don't deserve to have hockey and also stole a hockey team from somewhere that did deserve to have hockey (that's you Phoenix, Dallas and Carolina. Colorado gets a pass due to the fact that it gets cold in Colorado).
posted by Mister Fabulous at 3:06 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
The teams I cheer for, in order:
Canucks (I've adopted them due to the fact that they are on TV here all season long)
Red Wings (I'm from Michigan)
All teams in climates where playing outdoors is possible within 50 or so miles.
Those damn southern teams that don't deserve to have hockey.
Those damn southern teams that don't deserve to have hockey and also stole a hockey team from somewhere that did deserve to have hockey (that's you Phoenix, Dallas and Carolina. Colorado gets a pass due to the fact that it gets cold in Colorado).
posted by Mister Fabulous at 3:06 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
When did Alfredsson ever disappear?
1) Like most sporting passions, my intense dislike for Daniel Alfredsson and the Ottawa Senators is totally irrational. (Except for hating Ray Emery. That guy is and was a Hall of Fame douchebag.)
2) Notwithstanding 1), Alfredsson was the captain of a team that dominated the regular season for, what, four straight seasons, but only made it to the big show once - and lost. In some elite circles like the ones in which I rib my old delusional high school friends, the Alfredsson-led Sens are the gold standard for postseason futility, the Buffalo Bills of Canada's game.
3) I think it's big of you to admit he's no Stevie Y or Sid the Kid. Would that my old high school friends had this sense of perspective.
posted by gompa at 3:08 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
1) Like most sporting passions, my intense dislike for Daniel Alfredsson and the Ottawa Senators is totally irrational. (Except for hating Ray Emery. That guy is and was a Hall of Fame douchebag.)
2) Notwithstanding 1), Alfredsson was the captain of a team that dominated the regular season for, what, four straight seasons, but only made it to the big show once - and lost. In some elite circles like the ones in which I rib my old delusional high school friends, the Alfredsson-led Sens are the gold standard for postseason futility, the Buffalo Bills of Canada's game.
3) I think it's big of you to admit he's no Stevie Y or Sid the Kid. Would that my old high school friends had this sense of perspective.
posted by gompa at 3:08 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
(Also, I've watched Alfredsson play. All those years he and his team got beat by a third-rate Leaf team that barely limped into the playoffs, I watched him play. As a lapsed Leafs fan, it's my only fond memory of those days.)
posted by gompa at 3:13 PM on April 27, 2011
posted by gompa at 3:13 PM on April 27, 2011
The knock on the Sedins (and other Scandinavians) is that they put up big regular season numbers but then fail their teams in the big-game playoff clutch.
What are you talking about? The last three playoffs:
Henrik Sedin:
08-09: 1.00 points per game
09-10: 1.17 points per game
10-11: 0.71 points per game
Daniel Sedin:
08-09: 1.00 points per game
09-10: 1.17 points per game
10-11: 1.00 points per game
Jonathon Toews:
08-09: 0.76 points per game
09-10: 1.32 points per game
10-11: 0.57 points per game
Oh, and just for comparison, here is your Flames captain, Canadian Gold Medalist , Jarome Iginla :-)
Jarome Iginla:
08-09: 0.67 points per game
09-10: Did not make playoffs
10-11: Did not make playoffs
posted by reformedjerk at 3:16 PM on April 27, 2011
What are you talking about? The last three playoffs:
Henrik Sedin:
08-09: 1.00 points per game
09-10: 1.17 points per game
10-11: 0.71 points per game
Daniel Sedin:
08-09: 1.00 points per game
09-10: 1.17 points per game
10-11: 1.00 points per game
Jonathon Toews:
08-09: 0.76 points per game
09-10: 1.32 points per game
10-11: 0.57 points per game
Oh, and just for comparison, here is your Flames captain, Canadian Gold Medalist , Jarome Iginla :-)
Jarome Iginla:
08-09: 0.67 points per game
09-10: Did not make playoffs
10-11: Did not make playoffs
posted by reformedjerk at 3:16 PM on April 27, 2011
the Alfredsson-led Sens are the gold standard for postseason futility
Joe Thornton and Patrick Marleau would like a word with you.
oh, and Dany Heatley ... who interestingly enough came to San Jose by way of Ottawa.
posted by mannequito at 3:16 PM on April 27, 2011
Joe Thornton and Patrick Marleau would like a word with you.
oh, and Dany Heatley ... who interestingly enough came to San Jose by way of Ottawa.
posted by mannequito at 3:16 PM on April 27, 2011
Joe Thornton and Patrick Marleau would like a word with you.
Noted. If I ever meet a diehard Sharks fan, I'll be sure to bring it up.
(And reformedjerk, responding to the criticism of the Sedins as great-on-paper statistical darlings with no big wins to show for it with a points-per-game number-crunch against a kid who led a team to the Cup the year he turned old enough to drink in the city he won it for isn't all that convincing to me.)
posted by gompa at 3:20 PM on April 27, 2011
Noted. If I ever meet a diehard Sharks fan, I'll be sure to bring it up.
(And reformedjerk, responding to the criticism of the Sedins as great-on-paper statistical darlings with no big wins to show for it with a points-per-game number-crunch against a kid who led a team to the Cup the year he turned old enough to drink in the city he won it for isn't all that convincing to me.)
posted by gompa at 3:20 PM on April 27, 2011
This wouldn't have been a problem if they had used one of those glowing pucks.
posted by Kabanos at 3:22 PM on April 27, 2011
posted by Kabanos at 3:22 PM on April 27, 2011
Although on further review, the only meaningful stat there is that Toews had a higher points-per-game average than either Sedin has ever managed the year he led his team to the Stanley Cup. That is kind of persuasive, actually.
posted by gompa at 3:23 PM on April 27, 2011
posted by gompa at 3:23 PM on April 27, 2011
On preview, nathancaswell should have used a glowing comment.
IT'S SO HARD TO FOLLOW THE LITTLE BLACK LETTERS ONSCREEN!
posted by Kabanos at 3:26 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
IT'S SO HARD TO FOLLOW THE LITTLE BLACK LETTERS ONSCREEN!
posted by Kabanos at 3:26 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
only made it to the big show once - and lost
Alfredsson was a machine in that series. The rest of the team didn't show. Where was Heatley? Spezza? I would not put that defeat squarely on Alfredsson. Some games it looked like he was the only one even trying to shoot pucks at Niedermeyer after the whistle.
All those years he and his team got beat by a third-rate Leaf team that barely limped into the playoffs, I watched him play.
Ah, a Leafs fan. It all makes sense now. Yeah, the Lalime years were tough on Ottawa. Also the Cujo and Belfour years. And this year. OK, many other years too. Frankly, the Leafs stellar playoff goaltending made up for a lot of shortcomings.
the Alfredsson-led Sens are the gold standard for postseason futility
Yeah I hear that sometimes from Leaf fans (of all people), but it's kinda BS. Since the Sens first qualified for the playoffs in 1997, there's been less than 10 teams that have gone on to win the Cup. Most cities would consider it a success making it to the playoffs for 11 years in a row. How many post-season appearances have other teams had without winning a Cup?
posted by Hoopo at 3:43 PM on April 27, 2011
Alfredsson was a machine in that series. The rest of the team didn't show. Where was Heatley? Spezza? I would not put that defeat squarely on Alfredsson. Some games it looked like he was the only one even trying to shoot pucks at Niedermeyer after the whistle.
All those years he and his team got beat by a third-rate Leaf team that barely limped into the playoffs, I watched him play.
Ah, a Leafs fan. It all makes sense now. Yeah, the Lalime years were tough on Ottawa. Also the Cujo and Belfour years. And this year. OK, many other years too. Frankly, the Leafs stellar playoff goaltending made up for a lot of shortcomings.
the Alfredsson-led Sens are the gold standard for postseason futility
Yeah I hear that sometimes from Leaf fans (of all people), but it's kinda BS. Since the Sens first qualified for the playoffs in 1997, there's been less than 10 teams that have gone on to win the Cup. Most cities would consider it a success making it to the playoffs for 11 years in a row. How many post-season appearances have other teams had without winning a Cup?
posted by Hoopo at 3:43 PM on April 27, 2011
...responding to the criticism of the Sedins as great-on-paper statistical darlings with no big wins to show for it with a points-per-game number-crunch against a kid who led a team to the Cup the year he turned old enough to drink in the city he won it for isn't all that convincing to me.
Your argument was that Scandinavian players don't show up for the big games and playoffs, and I, along with others, have shown you that this isn't true. Are there Scandinavian players who are statistically great and haven't won the cup? Yes, of course. But the same can be said of great Canadian/North American players. As a fan of a rival team, it's totally understandable that you would cheer against the Canucks, but to say that they won't win because they have soft Scandinavian players, despite all statistical evidence to the contrary, is just propagating ignorant Don Cheeryisms.
posted by reformedjerk at 3:52 PM on April 27, 2011
Your argument was that Scandinavian players don't show up for the big games and playoffs, and I, along with others, have shown you that this isn't true. Are there Scandinavian players who are statistically great and haven't won the cup? Yes, of course. But the same can be said of great Canadian/North American players. As a fan of a rival team, it's totally understandable that you would cheer against the Canucks, but to say that they won't win because they have soft Scandinavian players, despite all statistical evidence to the contrary, is just propagating ignorant Don Cheeryisms.
posted by reformedjerk at 3:52 PM on April 27, 2011
Although on further review, the only meaningful stat there is that Toews had a higher points-per-game average than either Sedin has ever managed the year he led his team to the Stanley Cup. That is kind of persuasive, actually.
Perhaps being on one of the most stacked teams in recent memory might have something to do with that. Compare him on this year's version of the Hawks. If the Stars hadn't choked their last game against the Wild, Toews wouldn't even be in the playoffs this season. How many clutch goals did he score in the "must win" game against Detroit, when his team was facing 9th place two weeks ago? Zero. Through 7 games playing against the Scandinavians? 1 goal, minus 4.
posted by reformedjerk at 3:59 PM on April 27, 2011
Perhaps being on one of the most stacked teams in recent memory might have something to do with that. Compare him on this year's version of the Hawks. If the Stars hadn't choked their last game against the Wild, Toews wouldn't even be in the playoffs this season. How many clutch goals did he score in the "must win" game against Detroit, when his team was facing 9th place two weeks ago? Zero. Through 7 games playing against the Scandinavians? 1 goal, minus 4.
posted by reformedjerk at 3:59 PM on April 27, 2011
All teams in climates where playing outdoors is possible within 50 or so miles.
Those damn southern teams that don't deserve to have hockey.
By that logic, Toronto, New York, Philadelphia, Boston, Chicago, Detroit, St. Paul, Oklahoma City, Denver, and Milwaukee shouldn't have NBA teams because you'd be foolish to go outside to play a pickup game in the middle of January.
The NHL expanded to warmer cities nearly 50 years ago. Get over it already.
posted by clorox at 4:11 PM on April 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
Those damn southern teams that don't deserve to have hockey.
By that logic, Toronto, New York, Philadelphia, Boston, Chicago, Detroit, St. Paul, Oklahoma City, Denver, and Milwaukee shouldn't have NBA teams because you'd be foolish to go outside to play a pickup game in the middle of January.
The NHL expanded to warmer cities nearly 50 years ago. Get over it already.
posted by clorox at 4:11 PM on April 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
Basketball was invented indoors in Massachusetts where it gets pretty cold in the winter. But I agree with you, the climate has nothing to do with whether a city deserves a team--it's all about whether fans support it and there's a good business case and competent ownership/management. Unfortunately this is not always the case with a lot of the NHL's Southern expansion experiment, and it now looks like there may be at least one team coming back to cold-ass Canada for prima donna multi-millionaire players to hate playing for.
posted by Hoopo at 4:22 PM on April 27, 2011
posted by Hoopo at 4:22 PM on April 27, 2011
What's hockey?
Oh, right, the ice skating game.
Hmm. How's Carolina doing?
Not in the playoffs?
oh.
sonic meat machine wanders off to watch baseball
posted by sonic meat machine at 4:40 PM on April 27, 2011
Oh, right, the ice skating game.
Hmm. How's Carolina doing?
Not in the playoffs?
oh.
sonic meat machine wanders off to watch baseball
posted by sonic meat machine at 4:40 PM on April 27, 2011
By that logic, Toronto, New York, Philadelphia, Boston, Chicago, Detroit, St. Paul, Oklahoma City, Denver, and Milwaukee shouldn't have NBA teams because you'd be foolish to go outside to play a pickup game in the middle of January.
From Wikipedia on Basketball: In early December 1891, Dr. James Naismith,[2] a Canadian-born physical education professor and instructor at the International Young Men's Christian Association Training School[3] (YMCA) (today, Springfield College) in Springfield, Massachusetts, USA, was trying to keep his gym class active on a rainy day. He sought a vigorous indoor game to keep his students occupied and at proper levels of fitness during the long New England winters.
From Wikipedia on Ice Hockey: A game played on ice with a curved bat and a ball existed before Ice Hockey in the form of IJscolf, or Colf on ice, which was a popular game in the Low Countries between the Middle Ages and the Dutch Golden Age. The game was played with a wooden curved bat (called Colf or Kolf) and a ball made of wood or leather between two poles or simply convenient nearby landmarks, with the object of hitting the chosen point with the least number of strokes.
However, most believe that the game of ice hockey evolved from stick-and-ball games, played outdoors, and adapted to the icy conditions of Canada in the 19th century.
The NHL expanded to warmer cities nearly 50 years ago. Get over it already.
It's no secret that most of the money-losing teams in the NHL are in the south. The money winners are outnumbered by the losers: Dallas, LA and San Jose are the winners. Anaheim, Phoenix, Atlanta, Nashville, Florida, Tampa Bay, Carolina are losers. Even more painful is that the fans quickly abandoned Tampa Bay and Carolina after they won the Stanley Cup. So to hell with the southern teams that don't deserve hockey.
Don't tell me who to cheer for..
On preview: what Hoopo said.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 4:43 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
From Wikipedia on Basketball: In early December 1891, Dr. James Naismith,[2] a Canadian-born physical education professor and instructor at the International Young Men's Christian Association Training School[3] (YMCA) (today, Springfield College) in Springfield, Massachusetts, USA, was trying to keep his gym class active on a rainy day. He sought a vigorous indoor game to keep his students occupied and at proper levels of fitness during the long New England winters.
From Wikipedia on Ice Hockey: A game played on ice with a curved bat and a ball existed before Ice Hockey in the form of IJscolf, or Colf on ice, which was a popular game in the Low Countries between the Middle Ages and the Dutch Golden Age. The game was played with a wooden curved bat (called Colf or Kolf) and a ball made of wood or leather between two poles or simply convenient nearby landmarks, with the object of hitting the chosen point with the least number of strokes.
However, most believe that the game of ice hockey evolved from stick-and-ball games, played outdoors, and adapted to the icy conditions of Canada in the 19th century.
The NHL expanded to warmer cities nearly 50 years ago. Get over it already.
It's no secret that most of the money-losing teams in the NHL are in the south. The money winners are outnumbered by the losers: Dallas, LA and San Jose are the winners. Anaheim, Phoenix, Atlanta, Nashville, Florida, Tampa Bay, Carolina are losers. Even more painful is that the fans quickly abandoned Tampa Bay and Carolina after they won the Stanley Cup. So to hell with the southern teams that don't deserve hockey.
Don't tell me who to cheer for..
On preview: what Hoopo said.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 4:43 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
As a native Buffalonian (born and raised a hockey fan) who now lives in Chicago, last night sucked. My two teams both in Game 7s and neither could pull it off. At least Chicago put up a fight; the Sabres looked like shit on skates last night.
posted by misskaz at 4:45 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by misskaz at 4:45 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
It's no secret that most of the money-losing teams in the NHL are in the south. The money winners are outnumbered by the losers: Dallas, LA and San Jose are the winners. Anaheim, Phoenix, Atlanta, Nashville, Florida, Tampa Bay, Carolina are losers. Even more painful is that the fans quickly abandoned Tampa Bay and Carolina after they won the Stanley Cup. So to hell with the southern teams that don't deserve hockey.
Well, it's bizarre to even put hockey teams down here. Most natives have never played it, don't know the rules, and don't have a chance to watch it on TV. In NC, they put the team in the Triangle market, which isn't big enough to support many sports and already has Duke and North Carolina playing college basketball during the winter months.
posted by sonic meat machine at 5:06 PM on April 27, 2011
Well, it's bizarre to even put hockey teams down here. Most natives have never played it, don't know the rules, and don't have a chance to watch it on TV. In NC, they put the team in the Triangle market, which isn't big enough to support many sports and already has Duke and North Carolina playing college basketball during the winter months.
posted by sonic meat machine at 5:06 PM on April 27, 2011
sick and tired of hearing Vancouverites brag about the scenery and the weather
Weather? Surely nobody would be daft enough to brag about Vancouver's weather. I've never heard anyone, not even the most oblivious of Vancouver natives, brag about the awful, never-ending rain. Scenery is nice on a rare sunny day, though. Go Canucks!
posted by blockhead at 5:30 PM on April 27, 2011
Weather? Surely nobody would be daft enough to brag about Vancouver's weather. I've never heard anyone, not even the most oblivious of Vancouver natives, brag about the awful, never-ending rain. Scenery is nice on a rare sunny day, though. Go Canucks!
posted by blockhead at 5:30 PM on April 27, 2011
Since we're posting pictures and taking cheap shots at Raffi Torres...
All teams in climates where playing outdoors is possible within 50 or so miles.
?! That's pretty paradoxical since you cheer for the 'nucks. It's a rare year when Lost Lagoon is frozen enough to safely walk on.
posted by porpoise at 6:44 PM on April 27, 2011
All teams in climates where playing outdoors is possible within 50 or so miles.
?! That's pretty paradoxical since you cheer for the 'nucks. It's a rare year when Lost Lagoon is frozen enough to safely walk on.
posted by porpoise at 6:44 PM on April 27, 2011
Anaheim, Phoenix, Atlanta, Nashville, Florida, Tampa Bay, Carolina are losers.
I take issue with that statement, at least for Nashville. Since the organization survived the Craig Leipold era, the whole brouhaha that resulted in Jim Balsillie looking like an ass, and then watching Boots DelBiaggio wind up with a 97 month prison sentence for fraud, they've managed to come together under a local ownership group who has put together a solid program. They were 19th in overall attendance this year, with the arena being 94% filled over the course of the season, and have turned a profit for 3 straight years in a crappy economy. This city fought hard to keep this team, and we're damn sure not letting it get away. Yeah, we're a young city, with a young team, with young fans, but we catch on quick, and the second generation of fans is getting bigger.
We're a loud group. The players love it here, and they put a competitive team on the ice year in, year out. Yeah, this is the first year they've made it into the 2nd round of the playoffs, and they definitely have their hands full with Vancouver, but they split 2-2 with the Canucks on the season, including a 3-0 win in their house. Preds may not win this round, but they won't roll over. Not with all 17,113 of us packing the Big Building on Broadway.
And you folks north of here are absolutely right. There is NOTHING like playoff hockey, and speaking for Nashville, we're glad it's here.
Where my Cellblock 303 folks at? Ya'll watch out for flying catfish!
posted by rhythim at 6:49 PM on April 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
I take issue with that statement, at least for Nashville. Since the organization survived the Craig Leipold era, the whole brouhaha that resulted in Jim Balsillie looking like an ass, and then watching Boots DelBiaggio wind up with a 97 month prison sentence for fraud, they've managed to come together under a local ownership group who has put together a solid program. They were 19th in overall attendance this year, with the arena being 94% filled over the course of the season, and have turned a profit for 3 straight years in a crappy economy. This city fought hard to keep this team, and we're damn sure not letting it get away. Yeah, we're a young city, with a young team, with young fans, but we catch on quick, and the second generation of fans is getting bigger.
We're a loud group. The players love it here, and they put a competitive team on the ice year in, year out. Yeah, this is the first year they've made it into the 2nd round of the playoffs, and they definitely have their hands full with Vancouver, but they split 2-2 with the Canucks on the season, including a 3-0 win in their house. Preds may not win this round, but they won't roll over. Not with all 17,113 of us packing the Big Building on Broadway.
And you folks north of here are absolutely right. There is NOTHING like playoff hockey, and speaking for Nashville, we're glad it's here.
Where my Cellblock 303 folks at? Ya'll watch out for flying catfish!
posted by rhythim at 6:49 PM on April 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
Ah yes those money-losing teams in untenable southern locales like...Minnesota?
Major league sports is a tough business and fans in any market can be fickle when the team is bad or the economy tanks. Just ask the owners of cold-weather big-market teams New Jersey, Colorado, and Long Island (which all had lower attendance this year than Nashville, Dallas, Carolina, Tampa, Florida, San Jose, and Los Angeles...pretty much all the Sunbelt teams). Canada has a population roughly 1/10th that of the United States. Know that $2,000,000,000 over 10 year TV deal the NHL just signed? Another team in Canada isn't going to help bring in that kind of money. You can boohoo about who "deserves" what all you want but the league is run by rich guys who didn't get that way by being dumb and taking the easy money. If the game is going to grow it's going to be in the US, and the south is a huge untapped market. Yeah, it's going to come in fits and starts, but Atlanta and Nashville both have huge youth hockey programs now, and the kids who were 8 or 10 when the teams arrived are now starting to be grown up and have jobs and kids and disposable income for season tickets...the market is just going to get better. I moved to Nashville 4 years ago not giving two shits about hockey and just started playing myself and live and breath the Predators and hockey. So yeah, we have a little chip on our shoulder about keeping our team, and you can root for whoever you want but if you're going to tell me I don't deserve hockey you can fuck right off, hoser.
rhythim, I'll be in 323 when the Canucks come to town, telling Luongo it's all his fault.
posted by ghharr at 7:05 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Major league sports is a tough business and fans in any market can be fickle when the team is bad or the economy tanks. Just ask the owners of cold-weather big-market teams New Jersey, Colorado, and Long Island (which all had lower attendance this year than Nashville, Dallas, Carolina, Tampa, Florida, San Jose, and Los Angeles...pretty much all the Sunbelt teams). Canada has a population roughly 1/10th that of the United States. Know that $2,000,000,000 over 10 year TV deal the NHL just signed? Another team in Canada isn't going to help bring in that kind of money. You can boohoo about who "deserves" what all you want but the league is run by rich guys who didn't get that way by being dumb and taking the easy money. If the game is going to grow it's going to be in the US, and the south is a huge untapped market. Yeah, it's going to come in fits and starts, but Atlanta and Nashville both have huge youth hockey programs now, and the kids who were 8 or 10 when the teams arrived are now starting to be grown up and have jobs and kids and disposable income for season tickets...the market is just going to get better. I moved to Nashville 4 years ago not giving two shits about hockey and just started playing myself and live and breath the Predators and hockey. So yeah, we have a little chip on our shoulder about keeping our team, and you can root for whoever you want but if you're going to tell me I don't deserve hockey you can fuck right off, hoser.
rhythim, I'll be in 323 when the Canucks come to town, telling Luongo it's all his fault.
posted by ghharr at 7:05 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Ah yes those money-losing teams in untenable southern locales like...Minnesota?
Minnesota is now owned by the guy who was a terrible owner for the Nashville Predators.
posted by drezdn at 7:59 PM on April 27, 2011
Minnesota is now owned by the guy who was a terrible owner for the Nashville Predators.
posted by drezdn at 7:59 PM on April 27, 2011
New Jersey & The Islanders suffer from being the relatively young #2 & #3 teams in the #4 sport in the same media market as The Rangers, who are one of the Original Six founding teams of the NHL. There's only so many hockey fans to go around in the NYC tri-state area.
Colorado has demonstrated once already they can't support a hockey team over the long term (The NJ Devils were the Colorado Rockies before they moved). Same goes for Minnesota, even if Norm Green did try to extort the Twin Cities and followed through on his threat to move the Northstars to Dallas if he didn't get a new arena.
Here's the 800 lb. gorilla in the room: The NHL needs to contract if it wants to survive. This will never happen while Bettman (the architect of Southern expansion) is the Commisioner. He will shuffle teams around, lockout the players to extract even more concessions out of them, and would probably impale babies on spikes if he thought it would allow him to keep his job by making the NHL profitable in the short term and distract everyone from the fact that he and the owners gravely miscalculated the appeal of hockey in certain markets back in the 90's, which has dragged the NHL down financially over the long term.
Atlanta & Nashville may thrive and more power to them if they do, but even widespread youth leagues are no guarantee of instant success. Look at soccer in the US, for example. Nationally, youth soccer has been part of the American sports landscape for about 35-40 years. Yet, the MLS average team attendance for 2010 was 16,667. That's for the whole season, not per game.
posted by KingEdRa at 9:48 PM on April 27, 2011
Colorado has demonstrated once already they can't support a hockey team over the long term (The NJ Devils were the Colorado Rockies before they moved). Same goes for Minnesota, even if Norm Green did try to extort the Twin Cities and followed through on his threat to move the Northstars to Dallas if he didn't get a new arena.
Here's the 800 lb. gorilla in the room: The NHL needs to contract if it wants to survive. This will never happen while Bettman (the architect of Southern expansion) is the Commisioner. He will shuffle teams around, lockout the players to extract even more concessions out of them, and would probably impale babies on spikes if he thought it would allow him to keep his job by making the NHL profitable in the short term and distract everyone from the fact that he and the owners gravely miscalculated the appeal of hockey in certain markets back in the 90's, which has dragged the NHL down financially over the long term.
Atlanta & Nashville may thrive and more power to them if they do, but even widespread youth leagues are no guarantee of instant success. Look at soccer in the US, for example. Nationally, youth soccer has been part of the American sports landscape for about 35-40 years. Yet, the MLS average team attendance for 2010 was 16,667. That's for the whole season, not per game.
posted by KingEdRa at 9:48 PM on April 27, 2011
[Bettman] will shuffle teams around, lockout the players to extract even more concessions out of them, and would probably impale babies on spikes if he thought it would allow him to keep his job by making the NHL profitable in the short term and distract everyone from the fact that he and the owners gravely miscalculated the appeal of hockey in certain markets back in the 90's, which has dragged the NHL down financially over the long term.
With the positively bizarre officiating I've seen in the last couple of weeks, I'm wondering what else Bettman is willing to do. Also, let's not forget that he brought disgrace to the league by allowing a team to be named after a second rate Disney movie--pathetic.
posted by Chuckles at 10:11 PM on April 27, 2011
With the positively bizarre officiating I've seen in the last couple of weeks, I'm wondering what else Bettman is willing to do. Also, let's not forget that he brought disgrace to the league by allowing a team to be named after a second rate Disney movie--pathetic.
posted by Chuckles at 10:11 PM on April 27, 2011
Just wanted to point out the Hawks will now have lots of time to look for pucks in between golf rounds.
> The NHL expanded to warmer cities nearly 50 years ago. Get over it already.
Sorry, can't.
> rhythim: Ya'll watch out for flying catfish!
Now that is showing some spirit! Looking forward to the series...
posted by stp123 at 10:22 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
> The NHL expanded to warmer cities nearly 50 years ago. Get over it already.
Sorry, can't.
> rhythim: Ya'll watch out for flying catfish!
Now that is showing some spirit! Looking forward to the series...
posted by stp123 at 10:22 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
A couple of personal reminisces: 1) I was in Vancouver when it finally got a franchise. Went to a number of games. (It wasn't that hard to get tickets then.) The ownership was refused to the locals who had the old WHL Canucks franchise and instead went to a Yankee scumbag who wound up in prison and ran the club for two years from there. NHL owners have historically not been nice people (cf. Stafford Smythe and Harold Ballard -- in fact, if it is true that Toronto has been blocking a Hamilton franchise... Well, Toronto owners = hockey scum!) Anyway, it took years for Vancouver to get past that. In the meanwhile there have been several ownership changes including one sale that went to the BC Supreme Court.
2) First live hockey game I ever saw was in Virginia. The Salem Rebels (EHL, Southern Division) vs. somebody. The new fans had printed sheets that explained icing and offside passing. They were into it.
So, warm climate doesn't mean fans won't materialize. (Even though the Coyotes should be in Winnipeg now.) And, Jesus, Vancouver is due!
And if a Vancouver Stanley Cup puck went missing (as opposed to Chicago) there would be a Serious Investigation.
posted by CCBC at 10:43 PM on April 27, 2011
2) First live hockey game I ever saw was in Virginia. The Salem Rebels (EHL, Southern Division) vs. somebody. The new fans had printed sheets that explained icing and offside passing. They were into it.
So, warm climate doesn't mean fans won't materialize. (Even though the Coyotes should be in Winnipeg now.) And, Jesus, Vancouver is due!
And if a Vancouver Stanley Cup puck went missing (as opposed to Chicago) there would be a Serious Investigation.
posted by CCBC at 10:43 PM on April 27, 2011
That cup is sure going to look good being paraded down...
... Portage Avenue in 2012!
[Tries to kick self in throat, hard]
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:44 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
... Portage Avenue in 2012!
[Tries to kick self in throat, hard]
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:44 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Also, if there was a just god, the Stanley Cup would look awesome as it was being paraded around The Mall.
God, I miss The Whalers this time of year. Brass Bonanza. Good Times. Excuse me, I have something in my eye.
posted by KingEdRa at 11:04 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
God, I miss The Whalers this time of year. Brass Bonanza. Good Times. Excuse me, I have something in my eye.
posted by KingEdRa at 11:04 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Know that $2,000,000,000 over 10 year TV deal the NHL just signed? Another team in Canada isn't going to help bring in that kind of money.
Absolutely not; it may well bring in more. The US TV deal is $200m/season, with 24 teams. The Canadian TV deals are $155m/season, with 6 teams. In effect, Canadian TV subsidizes US teams.
And NBC isn't stupid. Okay, they are, but not so stupid that they inked a TV deal based on the delusion that Atlanta and Miami and Phoenix were suddenly going to start tuning into hockey en masse. They signed because the NHL is popular today in maybe half a dozen major markets (Chicago, Detroit, Boston, etc.) and half a dozen midsize markets. The last Phoenix Coyotes playoff game drew roughly 40,000 viewers locally, placing 3rd behind a rerun of Law and Order. Boy, losing that TV revenue would cripple the NHL. Over half of the league's US teams are south of the Mason-Dixon line; if local network viewership is a guide, less than 30% of TV viewership is.
TV is a bit of a red herring anyways; the NHL is primarily an attendance-funded league; roughly half the revenue comes from ticket sales, a quarter from in-arena (advertising, concessions, parking, etc) and a quarter from TV.
Doing some rough calculations, if the three worst-attended US teams of recent years; the Islanders, Phoenix and Atlanta:
- moved to Quebec City, Winnipeg and Hamilton
- sold out their respective arenas for the season (5 of the 6 Canadian teams have sold out for every home game for all of the last 5 seasons; Ottawa has three sellouts, 99% and 96%)
- had per-seat ticket revenues consistent with the smaller market Canadian teams
- had in-arena revenues consistent with the league average
- didn't result in one more penny of TV revenues
the NHL would have a net increase of $90M per season, almost half the total income from the NBC deal. Even if they refunded NBC a prorated portion of their TV contract based on the market size (12-15% depending on whether Queens and Brooklyn are "Long Island") rather than their TV viewership (5-6%), the NHL would still be $60 million ahead.
I've heard good things about the fans in Nashville, and there appears to be a base of support there (even if the Predators are 26th out of 30 in attendance since the lockout). Some of the other southern US teams seem to be doing fairly well; the Sharks, Ducks and Kings have strong attendance, if not TV numbers. Washington is doing well. I'm happy to hear this; I'd be thrilled if Mexico City suddenly had a rabid hockey fanbase as well. But the truth is that the southern US has been thoroughly tapped; we're close to 45 years in LA and 20 in the Bay and Florida; 15 years in Phoenix and over a decade in Atlanta, Carolina and Nashville.
Meanwhile, the Québec Remparts had better attendance last year than the New York Islanders, despite the Remparts being a junior team comprised entirely of teenagers.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 11:34 PM on April 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
Absolutely not; it may well bring in more. The US TV deal is $200m/season, with 24 teams. The Canadian TV deals are $155m/season, with 6 teams. In effect, Canadian TV subsidizes US teams.
And NBC isn't stupid. Okay, they are, but not so stupid that they inked a TV deal based on the delusion that Atlanta and Miami and Phoenix were suddenly going to start tuning into hockey en masse. They signed because the NHL is popular today in maybe half a dozen major markets (Chicago, Detroit, Boston, etc.) and half a dozen midsize markets. The last Phoenix Coyotes playoff game drew roughly 40,000 viewers locally, placing 3rd behind a rerun of Law and Order. Boy, losing that TV revenue would cripple the NHL. Over half of the league's US teams are south of the Mason-Dixon line; if local network viewership is a guide, less than 30% of TV viewership is.
TV is a bit of a red herring anyways; the NHL is primarily an attendance-funded league; roughly half the revenue comes from ticket sales, a quarter from in-arena (advertising, concessions, parking, etc) and a quarter from TV.
Doing some rough calculations, if the three worst-attended US teams of recent years; the Islanders, Phoenix and Atlanta:
- moved to Quebec City, Winnipeg and Hamilton
- sold out their respective arenas for the season (5 of the 6 Canadian teams have sold out for every home game for all of the last 5 seasons; Ottawa has three sellouts, 99% and 96%)
- had per-seat ticket revenues consistent with the smaller market Canadian teams
- had in-arena revenues consistent with the league average
- didn't result in one more penny of TV revenues
the NHL would have a net increase of $90M per season, almost half the total income from the NBC deal. Even if they refunded NBC a prorated portion of their TV contract based on the market size (12-15% depending on whether Queens and Brooklyn are "Long Island") rather than their TV viewership (5-6%), the NHL would still be $60 million ahead.
I've heard good things about the fans in Nashville, and there appears to be a base of support there (even if the Predators are 26th out of 30 in attendance since the lockout). Some of the other southern US teams seem to be doing fairly well; the Sharks, Ducks and Kings have strong attendance, if not TV numbers. Washington is doing well. I'm happy to hear this; I'd be thrilled if Mexico City suddenly had a rabid hockey fanbase as well. But the truth is that the southern US has been thoroughly tapped; we're close to 45 years in LA and 20 in the Bay and Florida; 15 years in Phoenix and over a decade in Atlanta, Carolina and Nashville.
Meanwhile, the Québec Remparts had better attendance last year than the New York Islanders, despite the Remparts being a junior team comprised entirely of teenagers.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 11:34 PM on April 27, 2011 [3 favorites]
Yet, the MLS average team attendance for 2010 was 16,667. That's for the whole season, not per game.
No, that's per game. Over 5 million people attended MLS games last season, compared with 17.5 million for the NFL, 21.5 million each for NBA and NHL and 73 million for MLB, although those numbers include people who died of boredom at baseball games and haven't been moved out of their seats yet.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 11:41 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
No, that's per game. Over 5 million people attended MLS games last season, compared with 17.5 million for the NFL, 21.5 million each for NBA and NHL and 73 million for MLB, although those numbers include people who died of boredom at baseball games and haven't been moved out of their seats yet.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 11:41 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Oh, and I forgot to link to this interesting report from the University of Toronto analyzing the potential NHL market in Canada, with loads of financial details, etc.
They conclude that Hamilton, Winnipeg and Quebec could each support an NHL team, and that Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver could each support a second.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 11:48 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
They conclude that Hamilton, Winnipeg and Quebec could each support an NHL team, and that Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver could each support a second.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 11:48 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Getting back to the ESPN article: While we're supposed to hear a dramatic "dun-dun-DUN" after every suspicious remark made by the Evil Linesman and his Boss, my guess is that they were both annoyed and mystified by the attention being paid to a stupid, so-called "lost" puck. The writer says as much in his preface: No one knows where the last 5 Cup-winning pucks are. Why? Because no one cares! Game-winning pucks aren't fetishized like baseballs are, which makes the whole Doug Mientkiewicz thing a false equivalency. Yes, some restaurant owner is willing to pay $50k for it, while its Ebay value is pegged between 10k and 20k. Big fat whoop.
And KingEdRa: Brass Bonanza is the ringtone on my iPhone! (I still call them the New England Whalers.) I ran into Howard Baldwin in the hallway at work a few years ago -- my inner 6-year-old had so much to say that I couldn't even open my mouth.
posted by turducken at 11:53 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
And KingEdRa: Brass Bonanza is the ringtone on my iPhone! (I still call them the New England Whalers.) I ran into Howard Baldwin in the hallway at work a few years ago -- my inner 6-year-old had so much to say that I couldn't even open my mouth.
posted by turducken at 11:53 PM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
while its Ebay value is pegged between 10k and 20k. Big fat whoop.
if I'm a serious fan of a sport, I'd like to know if the refs are the type to pocket pucks/balls/etc. to sell on eBay afterwards
posted by mannequito at 12:24 AM on April 28, 2011
if I'm a serious fan of a sport, I'd like to know if the refs are the type to pocket pucks/balls/etc. to sell on eBay afterwards
posted by mannequito at 12:24 AM on April 28, 2011
They conclude that Hamilton, Winnipeg and Quebec could each support an NHL team, and that Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver could each support a second.
Here's to the Chilliwack Bruins, Mississauga St. Michael's Majors and Gatineau Olympiques all becoming NHL teams.
PS: As a citizen of the United States, I am all for six more Canadian NHL teams and the swift firing of Whistlin' Dixie Bettman.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 12:28 AM on April 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
Here's to the Chilliwack Bruins, Mississauga St. Michael's Majors and Gatineau Olympiques all becoming NHL teams.
PS: As a citizen of the United States, I am all for six more Canadian NHL teams and the swift firing of Whistlin' Dixie Bettman.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 12:28 AM on April 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
@ Homeboy Trouble: I stand corrected. Nevertheless, I still stand by my assertion that youth league participation in a sport in a given market isn't a reliable predictor of pro team attendance in the same sport. I wish Nashville & Atlanta all the luck in the world in building a viable long-term fanbase, though.
@ turducken: Did you know the Baldwin family has assumed control of the NY Ranger's AHL afffiliate (The Hartford Wolfpack) and rebranded them The Connecticut Whale? (Yeah, that's right-- Pucky The Whale is BACK!). Plus, the Federal Hockey League has The Danbury Whalers, who have made no secret of the fact that they wanted to tap into the legacy of the original Whalers franchise. They even managed to get their hands on the original Whalers goal horn!
posted by KingEdRa at 12:40 AM on April 28, 2011
@ turducken: Did you know the Baldwin family has assumed control of the NY Ranger's AHL afffiliate (The Hartford Wolfpack) and rebranded them The Connecticut Whale? (Yeah, that's right-- Pucky The Whale is BACK!). Plus, the Federal Hockey League has The Danbury Whalers, who have made no secret of the fact that they wanted to tap into the legacy of the original Whalers franchise. They even managed to get their hands on the original Whalers goal horn!
posted by KingEdRa at 12:40 AM on April 28, 2011
Vancouver is probably really beautiful now, since the demolition and subsequent rebuilding after the Rangers took the Cup from them in '94.
::runs away>>
posted by Splunge at 4:00 AM on April 28, 2011
::runs away>>
posted by Splunge at 4:00 AM on April 28, 2011
They even managed to get their hands on the original Whalers goal horn!
BEST OF THE GOAL HORNS
posted by troika at 7:02 AM on April 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
BEST OF THE GOAL HORNS
posted by troika at 7:02 AM on April 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
Plus, the Federal Hockey League has The Danbury Whalers
Bring back the Trashers!
posted by inigo2 at 8:43 AM on April 28, 2011
Bring back the Trashers!
posted by inigo2 at 8:43 AM on April 28, 2011
I was going to make a post about the Boston Bruins winning game seven last night, with several links and everything, then I saw this. And since I didn't want two deleted FPP in two days... #snark
That said, here is the very best: Jack Edwards, the home-tv play-by-play announcer for the Bruins, goes apoplectic... and then introspective.
posted by andreaazure at 9:11 AM on April 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
That said, here is the very best: Jack Edwards, the home-tv play-by-play announcer for the Bruins, goes apoplectic... and then introspective.
posted by andreaazure at 9:11 AM on April 28, 2011 [1 favorite]
mannequito - If the linesman did snag the puck, he probably had no intention of selling it. More like he intended to keep it as a memento or give it to his kid. (I don't think he'd want to risk his career over a relatively measly $50 grand.) Now that he's been called out by ESPN, however, I guess the Mientkiewicz comparison does apply -- but only if the false controversy sticks, and he's forced to fess up.
KingEdRa - Leave it to CT to have two teams named after the Whalers, with neither of them doing it particularly well. And are there no copyright attorneys down in Raleigh? The Hurricanes should have that logo locked up, just in case they move back to The Town That Fear Built.*
Also: I love the way the Canucks are playing this year. But it would all be better if they went back to the Flying-V unis.
(*Hartford = Insurance Capital of the U.S.)
posted by turducken at 9:41 AM on April 28, 2011
KingEdRa - Leave it to CT to have two teams named after the Whalers, with neither of them doing it particularly well. And are there no copyright attorneys down in Raleigh? The Hurricanes should have that logo locked up, just in case they move back to The Town That Fear Built.*
Also: I love the way the Canucks are playing this year. But it would all be better if they went back to the Flying-V unis.
(*Hartford = Insurance Capital of the U.S.)
posted by turducken at 9:41 AM on April 28, 2011
I actually think Carolina already has "Hartford Whalers" and the logo copyrighted (hence the CT Whale, who were beaten to the punch by Danbury in getting Whalers. Danbury has been very careful about not actually using any of the trademarked Hartford Whalers properties, especially since the NHL is doing a brisk business in selling retro HW merchandise recently.
posted by KingEdRa at 1:15 PM on April 28, 2011
posted by KingEdRa at 1:15 PM on April 28, 2011
given the lengths that Vancouver GM Mike Gillis had to go to to ensure fair officiating in the first round, as a fan I'm generally interested in any actions that question the refs' integrity, regardless of intention
posted by mannequito at 2:37 PM on April 28, 2011
posted by mannequito at 2:37 PM on April 28, 2011
They conclude that Hamilton, Winnipeg and Quebec could each support an NHL team, and that Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver could each support a second.
Does the Toronto supporting another team take into account a team in Hamilton? I love the idea of a team in Hamilton, if only to take a chunk out of Leafs Nation and so I'd get to say "Hammer Time" a lot. Also, I'd be a bit surprised if Montrealers and Torontonians would jump ship to a new team in town when they still have the Leafs and Habs and all that history. It would feel kinda like a second-best, wouldn't it?
posted by Hoopo at 3:44 PM on April 28, 2011
Does the Toronto supporting another team take into account a team in Hamilton? I love the idea of a team in Hamilton, if only to take a chunk out of Leafs Nation and so I'd get to say "Hammer Time" a lot. Also, I'd be a bit surprised if Montrealers and Torontonians would jump ship to a new team in town when they still have the Leafs and Habs and all that history. It would feel kinda like a second-best, wouldn't it?
posted by Hoopo at 3:44 PM on April 28, 2011
I'd be a bit surprised if Montrealers and Torontonians would jump ship to a new team in town when they still have the Leafs and Habs and all that history. It would feel kinda like a second-best, wouldn't it?
The Habs and Leafs have very different histories :P
posted by Chuckles at 7:20 PM on April 28, 2011
The Habs and Leafs have very different histories :P
posted by Chuckles at 7:20 PM on April 28, 2011
misskaz: "the Sabres looked like shit on skates last night."
Speaking as a fan of Ryan Miller (I've been watching him since his Hobey Baker-winning college days at my alma mater) - it pains me to see him so often fall short in the big games. No national championship despite breaking the all-time NCAA shutout record. One goal short in the gold medal game. Always knocked out in the playoffs. Dude deserves to get his name on a cup some day, but I'm not sure Buffalo is where it's going to happen.
Found myself pulling for Vancouver in that game. The overtime was pretty tense... the crowd went absolutely apeshit when Burrows scored. It's awesome to see something like that. I'm all about Detroit myself, but if I can't watch the Wings win it all I want to see someone win who hasn't been there in a while, because I know what it's like to cheer for a perpetual almost-but-not-quite. So yeah, go Wings, but if not, I'd be happy to see the Canucks or Bruins walk away with Lord Stanley's shiny trophy.
posted by caution live frogs at 2:27 PM on April 29, 2011
Speaking as a fan of Ryan Miller (I've been watching him since his Hobey Baker-winning college days at my alma mater) - it pains me to see him so often fall short in the big games. No national championship despite breaking the all-time NCAA shutout record. One goal short in the gold medal game. Always knocked out in the playoffs. Dude deserves to get his name on a cup some day, but I'm not sure Buffalo is where it's going to happen.
Found myself pulling for Vancouver in that game. The overtime was pretty tense... the crowd went absolutely apeshit when Burrows scored. It's awesome to see something like that. I'm all about Detroit myself, but if I can't watch the Wings win it all I want to see someone win who hasn't been there in a while, because I know what it's like to cheer for a perpetual almost-but-not-quite. So yeah, go Wings, but if not, I'd be happy to see the Canucks or Bruins walk away with Lord Stanley's shiny trophy.
posted by caution live frogs at 2:27 PM on April 29, 2011
NHL Linesman removed from duties after ESPN story
posted by never used baby shoes at 10:10 AM on April 30, 2011
posted by never used baby shoes at 10:10 AM on April 30, 2011
NHL Linesman removed from duties after ESPN story
posted by never used baby shoes at 1:10 PM on April 30
Thanks for the follow-up. Not sure what the action means. On the one hand it appears as if the NHL has some questions about what really happened to the puck and the linesman and on the other hand, it appears as if the whole story is unnerving him enough to not be able to work even though he maintains he does not know what happened to the puck. The plot thickens.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 1:51 PM on April 30, 2011
posted by never used baby shoes at 1:10 PM on April 30
Thanks for the follow-up. Not sure what the action means. On the one hand it appears as if the NHL has some questions about what really happened to the puck and the linesman and on the other hand, it appears as if the whole story is unnerving him enough to not be able to work even though he maintains he does not know what happened to the puck. The plot thickens.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 1:51 PM on April 30, 2011
That cup is sure going to look good being paraded down... er, San Jose doesn't have a signature street.
Santa Clara Street is part of El Camino Real, whch runs by the Shark Tank.
posted by JDC8 at 8:02 PM on April 30, 2011
The CBC showed footage during tonight's Canucks-Nashville game which very, very clearly showed the linesman Miller picking up the puck at the end of the game. I guess they read Metafilter at the MotherCorp.
posted by Rumple at 10:11 PM on April 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Rumple at 10:11 PM on April 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
I grew up in the Chicago area and aside from rich white kids in north shore Ferris-Bueller land suburbs, nobody gave a shit about hockey. Then last year my facebook feed is lousy with bandwagon riders who suddenly really, truly supported the Hawks all along. Typical American fans. It was Tampa Bay redux.
I know I'm late to this party, but I have to respond to this.
I don't know when you grew up in the Chicago area, and I don't dispute your impression of how popular hockey is/was in Chicago. You seem to indicate that you no longer live in the Chicago area, so let me relate what it was like for me (I live in a suburb of Chicago) to see the bandwagon build up last year.
It was weird. Not because it was so typical of "American fans" as you put it. (It pretty much was.) But it was weird because the true die-hard Hawks fans actually embraced it. I can't count the number of times I heard about life long season-ticket holders who were thrilled to see the United Center sell out for the hockey games. They would say things like "you have to be here to experience it" etc, etc. Rather than grouse about all the band-wagoners, they would encourage people to hop on! I never expected Chicago fans to react that way.
Then this year. It started pretty much the same way, as far as the fans were concerned. But somewhere towards the end of the season, all the long-time fans seemed to be done with all the new fans. They seemed to turn into exactly what I had expected, only delayed by a year or so.
It was weird.
posted by achmorrison at 1:09 PM on May 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
I know I'm late to this party, but I have to respond to this.
I don't know when you grew up in the Chicago area, and I don't dispute your impression of how popular hockey is/was in Chicago. You seem to indicate that you no longer live in the Chicago area, so let me relate what it was like for me (I live in a suburb of Chicago) to see the bandwagon build up last year.
It was weird. Not because it was so typical of "American fans" as you put it. (It pretty much was.) But it was weird because the true die-hard Hawks fans actually embraced it. I can't count the number of times I heard about life long season-ticket holders who were thrilled to see the United Center sell out for the hockey games. They would say things like "you have to be here to experience it" etc, etc. Rather than grouse about all the band-wagoners, they would encourage people to hop on! I never expected Chicago fans to react that way.
Then this year. It started pretty much the same way, as far as the fans were concerned. But somewhere towards the end of the season, all the long-time fans seemed to be done with all the new fans. They seemed to turn into exactly what I had expected, only delayed by a year or so.
It was weird.
posted by achmorrison at 1:09 PM on May 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
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posted by Bulgaroktonos at 10:20 AM on April 27, 2011 [1 favorite]