Women Now Empowered By Everything A Woman Does, including getting sick in dresses
May 16, 2011 8:01 PM Subscribe
Will Bridesmaids save the chick flick? Director Paul Fieg fretted about the opening, but Bridesmaids came in second place opening weekend. It has buzz and critical praise. But is it feminist? Does it matter? Is it total crap anyway? Does Roger Ebert like it?
A history of women in film. The Bechdel Test.
A history of women in film. The Bechdel Test.
Mod note: Most comments removed, let's try a do-over please? MetaTalk is your option
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:25 PM on May 16, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:25 PM on May 16, 2011 [3 favorites]
Chick Flicks are like the CanCon of Hollywood. They've got to pump out a certain percentage of utterly terrible shoe-shopping rom-coms just so they can say they're not neglecting female audiences.
Meanwhile, everywhere else in the world, there are completely non-idiotic films about women all over the place.
Hollywood needs to clue in and give up continuing to exist.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:30 PM on May 16, 2011 [9 favorites]
Meanwhile, everywhere else in the world, there are completely non-idiotic films about women all over the place.
Hollywood needs to clue in and give up continuing to exist.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:30 PM on May 16, 2011 [9 favorites]
The AV Club thinks it won't and shouldn't have to.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 8:31 PM on May 16, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 8:31 PM on May 16, 2011 [3 favorites]
I pretty much hate the term "chick flick", partly because society generally loves to assign "masculine" good, "feminine" bad values to everything and the term has become maligned.
It's way past time when film studios stop treating women as a niche audience when we're more than half the population and more than half the ticket buyers too.
As for Bridesmaids, I have yet to see it and I would like to. Some of my friends did and loved it.
posted by cmgonzalez at 8:33 PM on May 16, 2011 [9 favorites]
It's way past time when film studios stop treating women as a niche audience when we're more than half the population and more than half the ticket buyers too.
As for Bridesmaids, I have yet to see it and I would like to. Some of my friends did and loved it.
posted by cmgonzalez at 8:33 PM on May 16, 2011 [9 favorites]
Canadian Content, required by law to have something like (30 per cnet?) of radio and tv coming from Canada. It's why Trooper and April Wine exist.
posted by PinkMoose at 8:36 PM on May 16, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by PinkMoose at 8:36 PM on May 16, 2011 [2 favorites]
I got to see Bridesmaids months ago at one of those pre-screenings where they take comments, and honestly I thought it (or at least the version we saw) was hilarious and touching and I was impressed that it had realistic female characters.
I don't know if I would really call it a "chick flick" but that may just be because the term has automatic connotations of "no substance and one dimensional female lead characters" in my head, so anything good wouldn't feel like a "chick flick" to me. It's a dismissive derogatory-sounding term to begin with, so I'm not sure if a neutral term got loaded with a sexist connotation by throwing bad movies in that category and thereby implying that women like dreck, or it's just inherently sexist. To be fair, "romantic comedy" means pretty much the same thing in my head, so any good comedy that's based around a romance is just a "comedy" to me. I wouldn't call Bridesmaids a romantic comedy for pretty much that reason; I would see it again primarily to laugh, not to feel romantic feelings. I don't think I really felt very invested in the romance angle, though it wasn't bad or anything. It just wasn't the point.
Everyone in my audience laughed really hard, men included, for whatever that means. Ever since I saw the pre-screening I've been looking forward to how it would be received generally; there's still all that bullshit out there about how female characters can't deliver a movie people want to see, and I've long thought that's primarily because many female characters in Hollywood are horribly written. I felt like Bridesmaids would be a more legitimate test of whether people just don't want to see female characters at all. I'm glad it's doing well; it deserves the success, imo.
posted by Nattie at 8:38 PM on May 16, 2011 [11 favorites]
I don't know if I would really call it a "chick flick" but that may just be because the term has automatic connotations of "no substance and one dimensional female lead characters" in my head, so anything good wouldn't feel like a "chick flick" to me. It's a dismissive derogatory-sounding term to begin with, so I'm not sure if a neutral term got loaded with a sexist connotation by throwing bad movies in that category and thereby implying that women like dreck, or it's just inherently sexist. To be fair, "romantic comedy" means pretty much the same thing in my head, so any good comedy that's based around a romance is just a "comedy" to me. I wouldn't call Bridesmaids a romantic comedy for pretty much that reason; I would see it again primarily to laugh, not to feel romantic feelings. I don't think I really felt very invested in the romance angle, though it wasn't bad or anything. It just wasn't the point.
Everyone in my audience laughed really hard, men included, for whatever that means. Ever since I saw the pre-screening I've been looking forward to how it would be received generally; there's still all that bullshit out there about how female characters can't deliver a movie people want to see, and I've long thought that's primarily because many female characters in Hollywood are horribly written. I felt like Bridesmaids would be a more legitimate test of whether people just don't want to see female characters at all. I'm glad it's doing well; it deserves the success, imo.
posted by Nattie at 8:38 PM on May 16, 2011 [11 favorites]
The Hangover set the bar pretty high recently and this one is kind of like The Hangover 1.5.
Really? Maybe this is cause I had someone next to explaining every joke but the Hangover was amusing but not worth writhing home about. It just feels like the bar for feature films, especially comedies, has gotten go slow that anything not actively offensive is a soothing balm. An old episode of Party Down or 30 Rock gets me, myself laughing way more consistently and regularly - to say nothing of Archer or Louie or...yeah.
I haven't howled out loud at the theater for some time, but I have at home. All the talent is going to TV it seems.
posted by The Whelk at 8:38 PM on May 16, 2011 [9 favorites]
Really? Maybe this is cause I had someone next to explaining every joke but the Hangover was amusing but not worth writhing home about. It just feels like the bar for feature films, especially comedies, has gotten go slow that anything not actively offensive is a soothing balm. An old episode of Party Down or 30 Rock gets me, myself laughing way more consistently and regularly - to say nothing of Archer or Louie or...yeah.
I haven't howled out loud at the theater for some time, but I have at home. All the talent is going to TV it seems.
posted by The Whelk at 8:38 PM on May 16, 2011 [9 favorites]
Meanwhile, everywhere else in the world, there are completely non-idiotic films about women all over the place.
Fair enough, but there's a lot to be said for crowd-pleasing comedies where women are the leads and are not treated as barnacles or afterthoughts.
posted by Sticherbeast at 8:39 PM on May 16, 2011 [2 favorites]
Fair enough, but there's a lot to be said for crowd-pleasing comedies where women are the leads and are not treated as barnacles or afterthoughts.
posted by Sticherbeast at 8:39 PM on May 16, 2011 [2 favorites]
Fair enough, but there's a lot to be said for crowd-pleasing comedies where women are the leads and are not treated as barnacles or afterthoughts.
Of course there is, and The Bridesmaids may well be such a film.
Doesn't change the fact that Chick Flicks, on the whole, are evil.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:44 PM on May 16, 2011
Of course there is, and The Bridesmaids may well be such a film.
Doesn't change the fact that Chick Flicks, on the whole, are evil.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:44 PM on May 16, 2011
Also, yeah, The Hangover was okay at best. The Community two-parter was easily several times better than The Hangover. A massive advantage TV has over film is the fact that you can have seasons-long wind-ups to throwaway jokes and riffs on longstanding characters, whereas movies are doomed to introducing the audience to a new set of characters almost every time.
I'd also like to give a shout-out in general to the Apatow empire. Apatow's been responsible for far much more good than bad. I caught Get Him To The Greek on the airplane, and my girlfriend and I were both pretty stunned that it was not only genuinely funny, but also About Something. Ditto for most of his other films, let alone his TV work. I'm tired of people dismissing Apatow as just being a gross-out comedian or a guy who makes movies about unshaven men. He's a much better filmmaker, producer, and impresario than people give him credit for.
posted by Sticherbeast at 8:44 PM on May 16, 2011 [6 favorites]
I'd also like to give a shout-out in general to the Apatow empire. Apatow's been responsible for far much more good than bad. I caught Get Him To The Greek on the airplane, and my girlfriend and I were both pretty stunned that it was not only genuinely funny, but also About Something. Ditto for most of his other films, let alone his TV work. I'm tired of people dismissing Apatow as just being a gross-out comedian or a guy who makes movies about unshaven men. He's a much better filmmaker, producer, and impresario than people give him credit for.
posted by Sticherbeast at 8:44 PM on May 16, 2011 [6 favorites]
The Hangover set the bar pretty high recently and this one is kind of like The Hangover 1.5.
In what way is Bridesmaids at all like The Hangover? It's an ensemble comedy but other than that....? I don't see it.
I'll tell you how it's NOT like The Hangover - it is really, really, really good. It's hilarious and smart and touching and very real - one of the best movies I've seen in a long time.
"Chick flick" my fat ass. ~sigh~
posted by tristeza at 8:46 PM on May 16, 2011 [6 favorites]
In what way is Bridesmaids at all like The Hangover? It's an ensemble comedy but other than that....? I don't see it.
I'll tell you how it's NOT like The Hangover - it is really, really, really good. It's hilarious and smart and touching and very real - one of the best movies I've seen in a long time.
"Chick flick" my fat ass. ~sigh~
posted by tristeza at 8:46 PM on May 16, 2011 [6 favorites]
Doesn't change the fact that Chick Flicks, on the whole, are evil.
As are dumb action movies, but that doesn't stop Hollywood from making them.
posted by KingEdRa at 8:47 PM on May 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
As are dumb action movies, but that doesn't stop Hollywood from making them.
posted by KingEdRa at 8:47 PM on May 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm not writhing about a slow bar, it gets me, myself, but howling out loud is redundant.
And I thought The Hangover was really weak.
posted by Papaver somniferum at 8:47 PM on May 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
And I thought The Hangover was really weak.
posted by Papaver somniferum at 8:47 PM on May 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
but that doesn't stop Hollywood from making them.
The problem isn't that Hollywood keeps on cranking out another Fast and Furious movie. The problem is that people keep paying to see these movies.
posted by cazoo at 8:50 PM on May 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
The problem isn't that Hollywood keeps on cranking out another Fast and Furious movie. The problem is that people keep paying to see these movies.
posted by cazoo at 8:50 PM on May 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
The term chick flick in itself is sexist and condescending, I long for the day when we can have not just just with women but that also pass the bechdel test and not have to have discussions about it. Times like this I get angry that it's 2011 and we need to have this discussion at all (we do). Not only are we behind on the jetpacks/flying cars front, gender equity seems to be another thing we're constantly told we've evolved past, even though it's glaringly obvious we haven't.
posted by Betty_effn_White at 8:54 PM on May 16, 2011 [10 favorites]
posted by Betty_effn_White at 8:54 PM on May 16, 2011 [10 favorites]
Is there any type of studio movie that someone doesn't consider evil these days? The cinema hipster outrage isn't quite as teeth-gnashingly intense as the music hipster outrage but it's close.
posted by blucevalo at 8:54 PM on May 16, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by blucevalo at 8:54 PM on May 16, 2011 [6 favorites]
I saw this tonight! I had a good time. Can we talk about Jon Hamm? It's amazing to me that the same guy who plays serious badass Don Draper can also play the handsome fratboy ding-dong and nail every single joke. Talk about a talented actor.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:54 PM on May 16, 2011 [7 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:54 PM on May 16, 2011 [7 favorites]
The problem isn't that Hollywood keeps on cranking out another Fast and Furious movie. The problem is that people keep paying to see these movies.
What do you think the distribution rate is like for those films versus the movies studios are not quite as willing to pay to distribute and market anywhere but places like New York and Los Angeles?
posted by cmgonzalez at 8:54 PM on May 16, 2011 [2 favorites]
What do you think the distribution rate is like for those films versus the movies studios are not quite as willing to pay to distribute and market anywhere but places like New York and Los Angeles?
posted by cmgonzalez at 8:54 PM on May 16, 2011 [2 favorites]
I don't understand what the fuss is about -- this a high concept, low-brow comedy movie about something a lot of people can relate to -- it's a trusty formula that works. It does not break new ground so much as it expands it...
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 8:55 PM on May 16, 2011
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 8:55 PM on May 16, 2011
The term chick flick in itself is sexist and condescending
Exactly. That's why it's the perfect label for the sexist and condescending crap it describes.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:55 PM on May 16, 2011 [6 favorites]
Exactly. That's why it's the perfect label for the sexist and condescending crap it describes.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:55 PM on May 16, 2011 [6 favorites]
I dunno, the message I get from most movies that Hollywood tries to market to women is "true love will find you". The message I got from Bridesmaids, aside from don't eat in a strange Brazilian steakhouse, was more: "good friends are awesome, stick with them". I like that message better.
Anyway, I'm excited to see a movie that contradicts the old beliefs that women can't open movies and women can't be funny.
posted by jess at 8:57 PM on May 16, 2011 [21 favorites]
Anyway, I'm excited to see a movie that contradicts the old beliefs that women can't open movies and women can't be funny.
posted by jess at 8:57 PM on May 16, 2011 [21 favorites]
Hamm makes more sense when you see the Draper performance as the exception and not the rule.
I don't understand what the fuss is about -- this a high concept, low-brow comedy movie about something a lot of people can relate to -- it's a trusty formula that works. It does not break new ground so much as it expands it...
Having a top-line comedy film with all female leads isn't that common. I guess Charlie's Angels is sort of the closest thing we've had to that in a while? Enh?
The term chick flick in itself is sexist and condescending
Maybe, but just to be clear, a chick flick isn't just a women by/for/starring women, but a specific genre of romantic comedy. They tend to be genuinely crappy, with exceptions here and there. All part of Hollywood's blinkered view of how to appeal to its customers. I don't think Bridesmaids would fit into the chick flick mold, based on what I've heard, despite the fact that its leads are all women.
posted by Sticherbeast at 9:01 PM on May 16, 2011
I don't understand what the fuss is about -- this a high concept, low-brow comedy movie about something a lot of people can relate to -- it's a trusty formula that works. It does not break new ground so much as it expands it...
Having a top-line comedy film with all female leads isn't that common. I guess Charlie's Angels is sort of the closest thing we've had to that in a while? Enh?
The term chick flick in itself is sexist and condescending
Maybe, but just to be clear, a chick flick isn't just a women by/for/starring women, but a specific genre of romantic comedy. They tend to be genuinely crappy, with exceptions here and there. All part of Hollywood's blinkered view of how to appeal to its customers. I don't think Bridesmaids would fit into the chick flick mold, based on what I've heard, despite the fact that its leads are all women.
posted by Sticherbeast at 9:01 PM on May 16, 2011
Bridesmaids was a real movie and had real things to say. There are many, many moments which are both painful and funny at the same time. Moments when I had to look away to laugh. It seems to say things about women that aren't really addressed in mainstream films. The motivations aren't of the baby fever or clock is ticking type. Instead we see the what makes comedy really valuable: how it can both reflect and contort weakness and/or sadness. It has some missed notes, but its logic isn't the reflexive logic of Hollywood movies. Instead it gives a little humanity, without the sucrose and glucose its trailers provide. Also: pretty hilarious. Much respect.
posted by Arquimedez Pozo at 9:01 PM on May 16, 2011 [11 favorites]
posted by Arquimedez Pozo at 9:01 PM on May 16, 2011 [11 favorites]
Also ROY from the IT Crowd. He doesn't matter much, but I love him so very much. That's allowed? Right?
posted by Arquimedez Pozo at 9:04 PM on May 16, 2011 [7 favorites]
posted by Arquimedez Pozo at 9:04 PM on May 16, 2011 [7 favorites]
I went with some friends this weekend. It was sporadically funny, but mostly I thought that the characters were pathetic and unlikeable. I thought the characters were mostly one-dimensional and boring.
Maybe I missed something.
posted by 26.2 at 9:07 PM on May 16, 2011
Maybe I missed something.
posted by 26.2 at 9:07 PM on May 16, 2011
Oh, and Mean Girls. That was another female-led comedy.
posted by Sticherbeast at 9:07 PM on May 16, 2011
posted by Sticherbeast at 9:07 PM on May 16, 2011
Not sure I understand all The Hangover hate here...I thought Bridesmaids was almost as good as The Hangover and it could have used a bit more cutting and editing, to the tune of about 30 minutes. There were several scenes that went on almost painfully too long, just like many SNL skits. Kristen Wiig is funny but we don't need to have our faces rubbed in it.
Can we talk about Jon Hamm? It's amazing to me that the same guy who plays serious badass Don Draper can also play the handsome fratboy ding-dong and nail every single joke. Talk about a talented actor.
Yeah, but why did he do it uncredited? He was in at least three scenes so it was a bit more than a cameo. Surely he couldn't have been embarrassed after what he did on SNL last week.
posted by fuse theorem at 9:09 PM on May 16, 2011 [2 favorites]
Can we talk about Jon Hamm? It's amazing to me that the same guy who plays serious badass Don Draper can also play the handsome fratboy ding-dong and nail every single joke. Talk about a talented actor.
Yeah, but why did he do it uncredited? He was in at least three scenes so it was a bit more than a cameo. Surely he couldn't have been embarrassed after what he did on SNL last week.
posted by fuse theorem at 9:09 PM on May 16, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm just excited to see Maya Rudolph do things. She's so good at things.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:10 PM on May 16, 2011 [16 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:10 PM on May 16, 2011 [16 favorites]
Doesn't change the fact that Chick Flicks, on the whole, are evil.
As are dumb action movies, but that doesn't stop Hollywood from making them.
How about we don't assign moral judgements to people's choice of entertainment. What, exactly, makes a 'dumb action movie' or a 'chick flick' evil?
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 9:14 PM on May 16, 2011 [3 favorites]
As are dumb action movies, but that doesn't stop Hollywood from making them.
How about we don't assign moral judgements to people's choice of entertainment. What, exactly, makes a 'dumb action movie' or a 'chick flick' evil?
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 9:14 PM on May 16, 2011 [3 favorites]
Loving Maya Rudolph is easy because her mother is Minnie Ripperton.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:14 PM on May 16, 2011 [11 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:14 PM on May 16, 2011 [11 favorites]
Bridesmaids was better than The Hangover (though really, cmon, different animals entirely here) in my opinion.
It took its time feeling its characters out, it wasnt afraid to have them do ugly and selfish things and it hit a lot of very uncomfortable and honest notes. The characters werent just vessels hitting marks and spouting dialogue AT each other.
Plus, I cant tell you what a pleasure it is to see two people play friends that actually ARE friends in real life and apparently have been for a long time. It communicates an entire layer of subtext and chemistry you really cant get otherwise.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 9:14 PM on May 16, 2011 [2 favorites]
It took its time feeling its characters out, it wasnt afraid to have them do ugly and selfish things and it hit a lot of very uncomfortable and honest notes. The characters werent just vessels hitting marks and spouting dialogue AT each other.
Plus, I cant tell you what a pleasure it is to see two people play friends that actually ARE friends in real life and apparently have been for a long time. It communicates an entire layer of subtext and chemistry you really cant get otherwise.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 9:14 PM on May 16, 2011 [2 favorites]
Loving Maya Rudolph is easy because her mother is Minnie Ripperton.
And her hubby is Paul Thomas Anderson.
Hmmmmmmm. Maybe she's too good.
Yeah, yeah. I hate her now.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 9:16 PM on May 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
And her hubby is Paul Thomas Anderson.
Hmmmmmmm. Maybe she's too good.
Yeah, yeah. I hate her now.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 9:16 PM on May 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
Oh thank goodness. We'd almost gone a full week without Ebert's name on the front page.
posted by crunchland at 9:20 PM on May 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by crunchland at 9:20 PM on May 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
Wow, yeah, that AV club link pretty much sums up my feelings nicely. Apatow's comedies are usually "romantic comedies" in the broad sense of the term, but we don't call them that because that's what you call bad movies that are made for women. Honestly, I'd say The 40 Year Old Virgin was a lot more touchy and AWWW-inducing than Bridesmaids, but that's about a guy so it's cool!
I recall reading before that Apatow does make an effort to ensure his female characters are realistic, and I know he has his critics, but that's always come through to me and I've appreciated it in his movies. Even the very flawed female characters are flawed in a more realistic way. Sarah Marshall, even, reminded me of actual women I know, and not even in an unfavorable way despite its being flaws that they had in common; even though in the end you're left thinking yeah, Sarah Marshall is messed up, she's still sympathetic and not everything is her fault, you can understand what frustrated her and why she'd react in unhealthy or immature ways. She wasn't some one dimensional, incomprehensible bitch, she was just lacking in self-awareness -- and usually the main male characters are lacking in self-awareness, too.
I admire how Apatow strikes a good balance of showing how those blindspots play off each other to cause the relationship problems instead of just setting up one character as the bad guy. Even if one person is more to blame than the other -- because they could have reacted better or have much bigger issues -- they're not entirely villainized. That's just pretty true to life, I think.
A consequence of that is that his female characters are usually pretty believable, at least to me; you can't set that up without genuinely sitting down and getting into the heads of both characters and looking for a way their actions are justified (if misguided) and understandable, and I honestly don't feel like most writers make the effort for female characters. Even the typical "chick flick" or "romantic comedy" movies, which are supposed to appeal to women, just take a handful of cliche ideas about what women like and want to make their protagonists and then drop in some outraged "oh-no-he-didn't!" style scenes so they can play the record scratch sound in the trailer. The deepest answer to "what would the protagonist want from him in this scene?" seems to be shit like "flowers!" or "candlelight!" Even the men in those movies are terrible cliches; they're dopey or clueless or ~afraid to love~. That kills me because "clueless" is so powerful when the reasoning behind it is nuanced and thoughtful, but it's SO INSULTING TO MANKIND when it's just hurfdurf gender stereotypes! Anyway, I feel like Apatow does the clueless thing very well -- and not just with romantic relationships, but friendships, too. Superbad is one of my favorite movies just because of the hurt feelings and insecurities in their friendship alone, and Bridesmaids managed to do something similar, I feel.
posted by Nattie at 9:21 PM on May 16, 2011 [22 favorites]
I recall reading before that Apatow does make an effort to ensure his female characters are realistic, and I know he has his critics, but that's always come through to me and I've appreciated it in his movies. Even the very flawed female characters are flawed in a more realistic way. Sarah Marshall, even, reminded me of actual women I know, and not even in an unfavorable way despite its being flaws that they had in common; even though in the end you're left thinking yeah, Sarah Marshall is messed up, she's still sympathetic and not everything is her fault, you can understand what frustrated her and why she'd react in unhealthy or immature ways. She wasn't some one dimensional, incomprehensible bitch, she was just lacking in self-awareness -- and usually the main male characters are lacking in self-awareness, too.
I admire how Apatow strikes a good balance of showing how those blindspots play off each other to cause the relationship problems instead of just setting up one character as the bad guy. Even if one person is more to blame than the other -- because they could have reacted better or have much bigger issues -- they're not entirely villainized. That's just pretty true to life, I think.
A consequence of that is that his female characters are usually pretty believable, at least to me; you can't set that up without genuinely sitting down and getting into the heads of both characters and looking for a way their actions are justified (if misguided) and understandable, and I honestly don't feel like most writers make the effort for female characters. Even the typical "chick flick" or "romantic comedy" movies, which are supposed to appeal to women, just take a handful of cliche ideas about what women like and want to make their protagonists and then drop in some outraged "oh-no-he-didn't!" style scenes so they can play the record scratch sound in the trailer. The deepest answer to "what would the protagonist want from him in this scene?" seems to be shit like "flowers!" or "candlelight!" Even the men in those movies are terrible cliches; they're dopey or clueless or ~afraid to love~. That kills me because "clueless" is so powerful when the reasoning behind it is nuanced and thoughtful, but it's SO INSULTING TO MANKIND when it's just hurfdurf gender stereotypes! Anyway, I feel like Apatow does the clueless thing very well -- and not just with romantic relationships, but friendships, too. Superbad is one of my favorite movies just because of the hurt feelings and insecurities in their friendship alone, and Bridesmaids managed to do something similar, I feel.
posted by Nattie at 9:21 PM on May 16, 2011 [22 favorites]
Can we talk about Jon Hamm?
Go listen to some of the Comedy Death Ray (er.. Comedy Bang Bang) podcasts where he guests... he's a funny guy.
posted by eddydamascene at 9:21 PM on May 16, 2011
Go listen to some of the Comedy Death Ray (er.. Comedy Bang Bang) podcasts where he guests... he's a funny guy.
posted by eddydamascene at 9:21 PM on May 16, 2011
An e-friend of mine went to see it and was heartbroken by the treatment of the Melissa McCarthy character. The point she got was that McCarthy's character a punchline because of her size/weight and even though she gave an It Gets Better type speech, the rest of the gals put up with her because she was the bride's sister. I haven't seen the movie and have no idea whether it's that way or not; the trailer was so off-putting to me that there was no way I'd see it. Grossout comedies aren't my thing, no matter who's attempting to be funny. But after having read her comments, I'm wondering whether she saw the same film that some of the reviewers in the links and here on the blue did.
(The "you need to see this movie so they'll make more female-centered movies" schtick doesn't apply if you really don't want them to make more like that one.)
posted by immlass at 9:29 PM on May 16, 2011
(The "you need to see this movie so they'll make more female-centered movies" schtick doesn't apply if you really don't want them to make more like that one.)
posted by immlass at 9:29 PM on May 16, 2011
The point she got was that McCarthy's character a punchline because of her size/weight and even though she gave an It Gets Better type speech, the rest of the gals put up with her because she was the bride's sister.
I think I found the problem. Your e-friend seems to have attended some film that (as of this writing) simply does not exist.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 9:31 PM on May 16, 2011 [3 favorites]
I think I found the problem. Your e-friend seems to have attended some film that (as of this writing) simply does not exist.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 9:31 PM on May 16, 2011 [3 favorites]
It's interesting cause if you read and history of hollywood - comedies have ALWAYS been in decline - studios don't like them, audiences don't like them. It's strange. And now the reason is anything you can't sell to the overseas market is gonna flop but it seems like it was that way way back in the 70s Blockbuster era too.
Comedy is a hard sell. maybe the lower risks of TV make it a better place for it.
posted by The Whelk at 9:31 PM on May 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
Comedy is a hard sell. maybe the lower risks of TV make it a better place for it.
posted by The Whelk at 9:31 PM on May 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
Correction, Whelk. Studios LOVE cheap comedies. They HATE expensive comedies.
Ditto horror.
posted by unSane at 9:33 PM on May 16, 2011
Ditto horror.
posted by unSane at 9:33 PM on May 16, 2011
Some more commentary, including a deconstruction of the movie poster, on zunguzungu.
posted by adoarns at 9:38 PM on May 16, 2011
posted by adoarns at 9:38 PM on May 16, 2011
Can we talk about Jon Hamm?
He even does music videos for awesome French-Swedish folkies.
posted by dobbs at 9:45 PM on May 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
He even does music videos for awesome French-Swedish folkies.
posted by dobbs at 9:45 PM on May 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
Your e-friend seems to have attended some film that (as of this writing) simply does not exist.
I am not, in fact, convinced that she did. If part of the schtick of the film is to do a buddy comedy with women, and the "fat guy" (in this case, "fat chick") role in the ensemble is to be funny because of physical grossness, her reading may be different but perfectly accurate from her POV. And since what I get out of the preview I watched and the reviews I've read--including reviews linked here--is that McCarthy's schtick in the film includes a lot of humor based on fat and grossness (and unfemininity that goes along with that), I can see why an afterschool special moment doesn't redeem that for viewers inclined to perceive that humor as fat-shaming.
posted by immlass at 9:50 PM on May 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
I am not, in fact, convinced that she did. If part of the schtick of the film is to do a buddy comedy with women, and the "fat guy" (in this case, "fat chick") role in the ensemble is to be funny because of physical grossness, her reading may be different but perfectly accurate from her POV. And since what I get out of the preview I watched and the reviews I've read--including reviews linked here--is that McCarthy's schtick in the film includes a lot of humor based on fat and grossness (and unfemininity that goes along with that), I can see why an afterschool special moment doesn't redeem that for viewers inclined to perceive that humor as fat-shaming.
posted by immlass at 9:50 PM on May 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
I was a film student ten years ago. Nowadays I don't go to the theatre unless it's for something that my friends are going to make an event out of, or to see how Harry Potter gets translated to film.
I haven't see Bridesmaids yet, but I'm a guy, and this is the first movie in I don't know how long which has filled me with the urge that "I need to see this as soon as possible oh god this is going to be awesome." I'm hopefully going this weekend.
This sort of "formula" has been tried again (see: The Sweetest Thing, ten years ago) but I feel like the big difference here is that this movie is going all out making the point that you're going to laugh your ass off and love it whether you have two X chromosones or one, while also putting its female-centeredness front and center.
The truth is that the derogatory use of "Chick Flick" isn't just that they are movies made for women, but that they are only made for women. This in itself isn't bad. Fully half or more of studio fare is only made for men, because they know women will pay to watch it anyway with limited alternatives. The problem is that, being driven into a niche of movies that men won't pay to see unless they have to, and won't pay attention to, the studios don't give a shit and they're allowed to be bad and forced to be pandering. It's like how Tyler Perry movies are going to continue to be popular as long as there isn't someone better making movies which are for and about predominantly African-American culture. They can suck and still turn a profit as long as they hold down a niche and there's nothing better.
This is why Bridesmaids is important, even if Wiig doesn't want it to be. Hell, because Wiig doesn't want it to be. It's just a movie. Apparently a really funny and touching one. It's not made to pander to any audience, but to be funny to all of them. To put it another way, it's a comedy about women that regular joe guys will see, and then they will tell their friends about it. It is just one step towards pulling the male gaze away from being Hollywood's default position.
posted by Navelgazer at 9:52 PM on May 16, 2011 [3 favorites]
I haven't see Bridesmaids yet, but I'm a guy, and this is the first movie in I don't know how long which has filled me with the urge that "I need to see this as soon as possible oh god this is going to be awesome." I'm hopefully going this weekend.
This sort of "formula" has been tried again (see: The Sweetest Thing, ten years ago) but I feel like the big difference here is that this movie is going all out making the point that you're going to laugh your ass off and love it whether you have two X chromosones or one, while also putting its female-centeredness front and center.
The truth is that the derogatory use of "Chick Flick" isn't just that they are movies made for women, but that they are only made for women. This in itself isn't bad. Fully half or more of studio fare is only made for men, because they know women will pay to watch it anyway with limited alternatives. The problem is that, being driven into a niche of movies that men won't pay to see unless they have to, and won't pay attention to, the studios don't give a shit and they're allowed to be bad and forced to be pandering. It's like how Tyler Perry movies are going to continue to be popular as long as there isn't someone better making movies which are for and about predominantly African-American culture. They can suck and still turn a profit as long as they hold down a niche and there's nothing better.
This is why Bridesmaids is important, even if Wiig doesn't want it to be. Hell, because Wiig doesn't want it to be. It's just a movie. Apparently a really funny and touching one. It's not made to pander to any audience, but to be funny to all of them. To put it another way, it's a comedy about women that regular joe guys will see, and then they will tell their friends about it. It is just one step towards pulling the male gaze away from being Hollywood's default position.
posted by Navelgazer at 9:52 PM on May 16, 2011 [3 favorites]
Wouldnt it be better to comment on a film you've actually seen?
posted by Senor Cardgage at 9:52 PM on May 16, 2011
posted by Senor Cardgage at 9:52 PM on May 16, 2011
it could have used a bit more cutting and editing, to the tune of about 30 minutes
You know, I totally get what you're talking about here, because I always feel like an Apatow movie is going to end maybe half an hour before it actually does -- and even though I'll be enjoying it during that last half hour, I keep thinking, "Wow... really? Still going?" Funny People I expected to end a full hour earlier than it did; I felt like I was sitting through Lord of the Rings.
I honestly don't know if I would have wanted anything cut after the fact, though; when it's over and I'm not actually having to sit there anymore, I'm usually glad it took the time to resolve everything because I feel closer to the characters and all that. I remember thinking Funny People took as long as it needed to resolve things realistically, which I HUGELY appreciated, because any other ending would have felt unsatisfying and ridiculous to me. But man, I felt like I'd been sitting there a long time and got kind of edgy.
I ended up thinking about this quite a lot because I have a friend who gets bored 2/3 through any Apatow movie, and I started wondering if there was any way to shorten his movies, and what you might have to give up to do that, and all that.
At least part of it, for me, is that I just usually don't expect comedies to last terribly long. Apatow kind of makes a comedy and a drama and has to squish them into one movie, though, and the more movies he makes the more baggage all the characters have to unpack and resolve by the end of the movie; it's been progressively heavier and heavier stuff, I feel, some of it really painful and awkward -- Funny People and Get Him to the Greek had some of the most severely flawed characters I've seen in a while, in a comedy or otherwise.
Plus, something about the length of his movies manages to capture this idea I have about life mostly feeling like a lot of coasting until REALLY bad shit surprises you, and then the bad shit seems like a huge deal that sort of stops everything in its tracks... in his movies, the mostly comedic set-up goes on for long enough that it gets that feeling of being a big stretch of time where you take for granted nothing disastrous is really happening and won't happen, you're used to the characters -- and usually everything goes wrong right then, and you mire through it with them and feel just as blindsided and tired, by the time it's over you're just exhausted, and then you're relieved the exhaustion is over and everything worked out. It seems to mirror how the characters feel. I've puzzled over that before, how the psychological effect of a story's length can be both a weakness and a strength, and it's curious to me. I'm not sure if Apatow does it on purpose, but it does seem to facilitate the realism for me; the moment things feel like they're getting aimless is right when I'm least prepared for and most invested in bad things happening.
I'm also not sure if he could do all that and cut the movie times down without cutting out the more ridiculous stuff that keeps things from spiraling into really depressing territory. There's probably some way to improve on it, I just don't know. The last few movies I've been wondering if he might figure something out in that regard. Until then, I sort of remind myself before any Apatow film that, okay, yes it will be really funny, but it will also probably have some agonizingly fucked up parts and go longer than I expect, and I'm signing up to be a little exhausted and maybe I wouldn't like it as much if I weren't.
posted by Nattie at 9:53 PM on May 16, 2011 [7 favorites]
You know, I totally get what you're talking about here, because I always feel like an Apatow movie is going to end maybe half an hour before it actually does -- and even though I'll be enjoying it during that last half hour, I keep thinking, "Wow... really? Still going?" Funny People I expected to end a full hour earlier than it did; I felt like I was sitting through Lord of the Rings.
I honestly don't know if I would have wanted anything cut after the fact, though; when it's over and I'm not actually having to sit there anymore, I'm usually glad it took the time to resolve everything because I feel closer to the characters and all that. I remember thinking Funny People took as long as it needed to resolve things realistically, which I HUGELY appreciated, because any other ending would have felt unsatisfying and ridiculous to me. But man, I felt like I'd been sitting there a long time and got kind of edgy.
I ended up thinking about this quite a lot because I have a friend who gets bored 2/3 through any Apatow movie, and I started wondering if there was any way to shorten his movies, and what you might have to give up to do that, and all that.
At least part of it, for me, is that I just usually don't expect comedies to last terribly long. Apatow kind of makes a comedy and a drama and has to squish them into one movie, though, and the more movies he makes the more baggage all the characters have to unpack and resolve by the end of the movie; it's been progressively heavier and heavier stuff, I feel, some of it really painful and awkward -- Funny People and Get Him to the Greek had some of the most severely flawed characters I've seen in a while, in a comedy or otherwise.
Plus, something about the length of his movies manages to capture this idea I have about life mostly feeling like a lot of coasting until REALLY bad shit surprises you, and then the bad shit seems like a huge deal that sort of stops everything in its tracks... in his movies, the mostly comedic set-up goes on for long enough that it gets that feeling of being a big stretch of time where you take for granted nothing disastrous is really happening and won't happen, you're used to the characters -- and usually everything goes wrong right then, and you mire through it with them and feel just as blindsided and tired, by the time it's over you're just exhausted, and then you're relieved the exhaustion is over and everything worked out. It seems to mirror how the characters feel. I've puzzled over that before, how the psychological effect of a story's length can be both a weakness and a strength, and it's curious to me. I'm not sure if Apatow does it on purpose, but it does seem to facilitate the realism for me; the moment things feel like they're getting aimless is right when I'm least prepared for and most invested in bad things happening.
I'm also not sure if he could do all that and cut the movie times down without cutting out the more ridiculous stuff that keeps things from spiraling into really depressing territory. There's probably some way to improve on it, I just don't know. The last few movies I've been wondering if he might figure something out in that regard. Until then, I sort of remind myself before any Apatow film that, okay, yes it will be really funny, but it will also probably have some agonizingly fucked up parts and go longer than I expect, and I'm signing up to be a little exhausted and maybe I wouldn't like it as much if I weren't.
posted by Nattie at 9:53 PM on May 16, 2011 [7 favorites]
Exactly. That's why it's the perfect label for the sexist and condescending crap it describes.
I totally agree with you, but the label doesn't end there.
posted by Betty_effn_White at 10:00 PM on May 16, 2011
I totally agree with you, but the label doesn't end there.
posted by Betty_effn_White at 10:00 PM on May 16, 2011
An e-friend of mine went to see it and was heartbroken by the treatment of the Melissa McCarthy character.
Your friend is generally right, in my opinion, but I found a way to forgive it. Yes, Melissa McCarthy totally played the Chris Farley-esque crazy gross fat person to a very large degree. Usually this kind of thing makes me feel like crap, but somehow it didn't matter TOO much in Bridesmaids if only because it was pretty novel to see a woman doing the gross physical comedy bits.
McCarthy had great timing, and definitely got the biggest laugh of the night in my theatre, for what it's worth.
posted by jess at 10:04 PM on May 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
Your friend is generally right, in my opinion, but I found a way to forgive it. Yes, Melissa McCarthy totally played the Chris Farley-esque crazy gross fat person to a very large degree. Usually this kind of thing makes me feel like crap, but somehow it didn't matter TOO much in Bridesmaids if only because it was pretty novel to see a woman doing the gross physical comedy bits.
McCarthy had great timing, and definitely got the biggest laugh of the night in my theatre, for what it's worth.
posted by jess at 10:04 PM on May 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
I dont really think that was it tho.
Yes McCarthy was fat, but she was more defined by being brash and unapologetic and in control of her life than she was any of her other traits.
Her character was herself and happy to be herself, regardless of whatever anyone else might think/say/read into it.
I think it would be condescending to fat people to expect to treat their characters in films like fabergé eggs, in little perfect unoffensive bubbles.
My take on McCarthy's character was that she was driving her own life, and fuck 'em if they arent into it.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 10:11 PM on May 16, 2011 [13 favorites]
Yes McCarthy was fat, but she was more defined by being brash and unapologetic and in control of her life than she was any of her other traits.
Her character was herself and happy to be herself, regardless of whatever anyone else might think/say/read into it.
I think it would be condescending to fat people to expect to treat their characters in films like fabergé eggs, in little perfect unoffensive bubbles.
My take on McCarthy's character was that she was driving her own life, and fuck 'em if they arent into it.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 10:11 PM on May 16, 2011 [13 favorites]
The term chick flick in itself is sexist and condescending
Can't believe I'm linking to Urban Dictionary, but maybe there needs to be some sauce for the goose.
posted by George_Spiggott at 10:16 PM on May 16, 2011
Can't believe I'm linking to Urban Dictionary, but maybe there needs to be some sauce for the goose.
posted by George_Spiggott at 10:16 PM on May 16, 2011
McCarthy's character also totally saves the day. I was a little uncomfortable with how she seemed to be the butt of all the jokes, but the fact that she is actually the only one who has her shit together and the one who finally smacks some sense into Kristen Wiig redeemed it a bit for me.
I saw the movie this weekend, and my boyfriend and I both thought it was a lot of fun. He liked it even more than I did - I think in part because he is closer to the age of the characters and could empathize with the situation more. There were a ton of guys in the theater where we saw it, and they were definitely laughing a lot - I thought this was pretty encouraging.
posted by naoko at 10:22 PM on May 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
I saw the movie this weekend, and my boyfriend and I both thought it was a lot of fun. He liked it even more than I did - I think in part because he is closer to the age of the characters and could empathize with the situation more. There were a ton of guys in the theater where we saw it, and they were definitely laughing a lot - I thought this was pretty encouraging.
posted by naoko at 10:22 PM on May 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
An e-friend of mine went to see it and was heartbroken by the treatment of the Melissa McCarthy character. The point she got was that McCarthy's character a punchline because of her size/weight and even though she gave an It Gets Better type speech, the rest of the gals put up with her because she was the bride's sister.
I can see how your friend would be upset by it. I interpreted it a bit differently, though; I felt like her weight wasn't the punchline, what was funny about her was that she would brazenly do/say whatever she wanted even if it might draw attention to her weight or be contrary to how other people think fat people should act (i.e. they should be shamed). And I mean funny in an awesome way, not funny in a "clueless person doesn't know their place in society" way; she was completely aware of it all and had long since quit caring. She was funny in the way that people who don't engage with other people's stupid sensibilities are funny, I thought; I never felt like I was laughing at her character, I felt like I was laughing with her character at all the people around her who were uncomfortable when she didn't give a shit.
Her "It Gets Better" sort of speech -- assuming I saw the same thing in the pre-screening months ago -- helps makes sense of why the other girls seemed to be more "putting up with" her rather than being genuinely friendly to her; it's not like they don't like her because she's fat, they don't like her because she's kind of abrasive and loud and doesn't care much about social conventions. She explains that she had to learn to quit valuing other people's expectations of her behavior overmuch as a consequence of her being fat, which makes sense -- but it was the downsides of that personality that were off-putting to the other girls, I thought, not her weight. And what was nice about that scene (again, assuming it's the same one that ended up in the final cut) was it turned out that she was really one of the most helpful and loyal friends Wiig's character had, but Wiig's character had kind of lost sight of that because she didn't have the inner strength McCarthy's character had to just dismiss what other people thought; the girls would be embarrassed by McCarthy's behavior and distance themselves, when instead they'd be better off not caring what other people think of McCarthy either. I thought it was a nice thing to incorporate into Wiig's character's realizing how weird her priorities have been, because it wasn't her other friends who comforted her even if they don't make her feel weird in public.
Plus, out of the entire movie, McCarthy's character was by far the most emotionally stable. Everyone else is dealing with all this drama because they let other people ruin their lives, and McCarthy's character is just fine.
So I don't begrudge anyone who feels upset over it, but I honestly thought she was possibly the coolest character in the movie, and the joke was on superficial people fretting over dumb shit that doesn't matter.
posted by Nattie at 10:34 PM on May 16, 2011 [12 favorites]
I can see how your friend would be upset by it. I interpreted it a bit differently, though; I felt like her weight wasn't the punchline, what was funny about her was that she would brazenly do/say whatever she wanted even if it might draw attention to her weight or be contrary to how other people think fat people should act (i.e. they should be shamed). And I mean funny in an awesome way, not funny in a "clueless person doesn't know their place in society" way; she was completely aware of it all and had long since quit caring. She was funny in the way that people who don't engage with other people's stupid sensibilities are funny, I thought; I never felt like I was laughing at her character, I felt like I was laughing with her character at all the people around her who were uncomfortable when she didn't give a shit.
Her "It Gets Better" sort of speech -- assuming I saw the same thing in the pre-screening months ago -- helps makes sense of why the other girls seemed to be more "putting up with" her rather than being genuinely friendly to her; it's not like they don't like her because she's fat, they don't like her because she's kind of abrasive and loud and doesn't care much about social conventions. She explains that she had to learn to quit valuing other people's expectations of her behavior overmuch as a consequence of her being fat, which makes sense -- but it was the downsides of that personality that were off-putting to the other girls, I thought, not her weight. And what was nice about that scene (again, assuming it's the same one that ended up in the final cut) was it turned out that she was really one of the most helpful and loyal friends Wiig's character had, but Wiig's character had kind of lost sight of that because she didn't have the inner strength McCarthy's character had to just dismiss what other people thought; the girls would be embarrassed by McCarthy's behavior and distance themselves, when instead they'd be better off not caring what other people think of McCarthy either. I thought it was a nice thing to incorporate into Wiig's character's realizing how weird her priorities have been, because it wasn't her other friends who comforted her even if they don't make her feel weird in public.
Plus, out of the entire movie, McCarthy's character was by far the most emotionally stable. Everyone else is dealing with all this drama because they let other people ruin their lives, and McCarthy's character is just fine.
So I don't begrudge anyone who feels upset over it, but I honestly thought she was possibly the coolest character in the movie, and the joke was on superficial people fretting over dumb shit that doesn't matter.
posted by Nattie at 10:34 PM on May 16, 2011 [12 favorites]
Are we really this far down without mentioning how great Paul Feig is? And have mentioned Apatow several times?
The movie is hilarious, not a 'chick flick,' just a movie. Listen to the second most recent Comedy Bang Bang (as stated earlier, used to be Comedy Death Ray) for a great candid conversation with Feig about grappling with the title and how people would perceive the movie as something that it's not.
posted by SmileyChewtrain at 10:38 PM on May 16, 2011
The movie is hilarious, not a 'chick flick,' just a movie. Listen to the second most recent Comedy Bang Bang (as stated earlier, used to be Comedy Death Ray) for a great candid conversation with Feig about grappling with the title and how people would perceive the movie as something that it's not.
posted by SmileyChewtrain at 10:38 PM on May 16, 2011
What, exactly, makes a 'dumb action movie' or a 'chick flick' evil?
Michael Bay or Nora Ephron's name appearing in the credits.
posted by KingEdRa at 10:39 PM on May 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
Michael Bay or Nora Ephron's name appearing in the credits.
posted by KingEdRa at 10:39 PM on May 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
Michael Bay or Nora Ephron's name appearing in the credits.
THIS SUMMER
THIS BRIDAL SHOWER
IS
GOING
TO
EXPLODE
posted by The Whelk at 11:01 PM on May 16, 2011 [14 favorites]
THIS SUMMER
THIS BRIDAL SHOWER
IS
GOING
TO
EXPLODE
posted by The Whelk at 11:01 PM on May 16, 2011 [14 favorites]
Bridesmaids is a good movie. I thought it was touching, uncomfortable, and very funny.
I wish more mainstream films were like this but they won't and that's fine.
posted by Jan Coztas at 11:03 PM on May 16, 2011
I wish more mainstream films were like this but they won't and that's fine.
posted by Jan Coztas at 11:03 PM on May 16, 2011
I really liked this movie.
(Sidebar: I thought that the Megan character played by Melissa McCarthy was interesting, because a) she's fat b) her character doesn't give a fuck what you think about that and c) there's a moment when she's hitting on a dude that made me uncomfortable - "Ay, this is where they make fun of her for being fat, right?" - until I realized that actually, the movie was treating her fatness without comment, and it was just my own preemptive cringing that was making me tense. I did not at all get that the movie thought she was a loser because she's zaftig.)
Of course, Hollywood will probably totally ignore this movie's success and come up with reasons why it's a fluke, and continue to not make movies that are about female relationships... but still, this one is good, and it's making money, and as long as one money about ladies can pull that off, there's a tiny smidgen of hope.
It's good! Go see it!
posted by thehmsbeagle at 11:07 PM on May 16, 2011 [5 favorites]
(Sidebar: I thought that the Megan character played by Melissa McCarthy was interesting, because a) she's fat b) her character doesn't give a fuck what you think about that and c) there's a moment when she's hitting on a dude that made me uncomfortable - "Ay, this is where they make fun of her for being fat, right?" - until I realized that actually, the movie was treating her fatness without comment, and it was just my own preemptive cringing that was making me tense. I did not at all get that the movie thought she was a loser because she's zaftig.)
Of course, Hollywood will probably totally ignore this movie's success and come up with reasons why it's a fluke, and continue to not make movies that are about female relationships... but still, this one is good, and it's making money, and as long as one money about ladies can pull that off, there's a tiny smidgen of hope.
It's good! Go see it!
posted by thehmsbeagle at 11:07 PM on May 16, 2011 [5 favorites]
...CanCon?
posted by The Whelk at 8:33 PM on May 16 [+] [!]
Cancun in Silicone Alley
posted by beshtya at 11:46 PM on May 16, 2011
posted by The Whelk at 8:33 PM on May 16 [+] [!]
Cancun in Silicone Alley
posted by beshtya at 11:46 PM on May 16, 2011
the Hangover was amusing but not worth writhing home about
Ummm...things Charles Bukowski would say?
posted by ShutterBun at 12:14 AM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
Ummm...things Charles Bukowski would say?
posted by ShutterBun at 12:14 AM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'd note that I actually DID write home about The Hangover, to recommend it to my folks.
posted by gryftir at 12:28 AM on May 17, 2011
posted by gryftir at 12:28 AM on May 17, 2011
but don't writhe, they don't like the creases in the carpet.
posted by The Whelk at 12:31 AM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 12:31 AM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
I am a regular joe guy and have watched Bridesmaids. It's funny. Go watch it.
That said, the movie could have skipped the whole food poisoning scene and it would have been perfectly fine.
posted by ooga_booga at 1:00 AM on May 17, 2011 [3 favorites]
That said, the movie could have skipped the whole food poisoning scene and it would have been perfectly fine.
posted by ooga_booga at 1:00 AM on May 17, 2011 [3 favorites]
C'mon, Maya Rudolph frantically crossing the street was pure comedy gold.
posted by Theodore Sign at 1:09 AM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Theodore Sign at 1:09 AM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
Really? Maybe this is cause I had someone next to explaining every joke but the Hangover was amusing but not worth writhing home about. It just feels like the bar for feature films, especially comedies, has gotten go slow that anything not actively offensive is a soothing balm. An old episode of Party Down or 30 Rock gets me, myself laughing way more consistently and regularly - to say nothing of Archer or Louie or...yeah.
Same here, i watched The Hangover, and after only laughing once during the film, i was shocked it got so much praise. It felt by the numbers, frankly. This is the main reason i'm not even remotely interested in Bridesmaids, if it's being compared to that. Also, Archer and Party Down regularly had me laughing and wanting to rewatch them, something i don't want to do with The Hangover.
THIS SUMMER
THIS BRIDAL SHOWER
IS
GOING
TO
EXPLODE
(Record scratch!)
With hilarity!
(Dog wearing sunglasses and making the Dreamworks face)
posted by usagizero at 1:38 AM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
Same here, i watched The Hangover, and after only laughing once during the film, i was shocked it got so much praise. It felt by the numbers, frankly. This is the main reason i'm not even remotely interested in Bridesmaids, if it's being compared to that. Also, Archer and Party Down regularly had me laughing and wanting to rewatch them, something i don't want to do with The Hangover.
THIS SUMMER
THIS BRIDAL SHOWER
IS
GOING
TO
EXPLODE
(Record scratch!)
With hilarity!
(Dog wearing sunglasses and making the Dreamworks face)
posted by usagizero at 1:38 AM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
The "chick flick" genre only exists because there is a willingness among a certain demographic (mostly women, in this case, hence the term) to pay for this brand of low-value Jennifer Anniston/Ashton Kutcher escapism. We have reality television and celebrity gossip mags for the same reason. One film is not going to change that, especially if the Judd-Aptow aping trailers are anything to go by.
posted by londonmark at 3:22 AM on May 17, 2011
posted by londonmark at 3:22 AM on May 17, 2011
A colleague of mine went to a screening (it's not out in the UK yet) and said it was great. For some reason, they had puppies and 'hunks' there. It's the kind of thing I might see at home with a friend and a lot of wine - I quite like the sharper end of the chick flick for this kind of thing, and enjoyed Jennifer's Body more than the reviews suggest I should admit, and In Her Shoes was a) at least as good as the book b) a chick flick that wasn't mainly about dating.
It's the hideous romcom type ones I dislike. I used to live somewhere that had Sky, and my then-housemates decided to watch Faliure To Launch. My Aunt Fanny, that is a terrible film. I got my own back by watching Kes, and not remembering that a thick Yorkshire accent is probably difficult to parse by a South African and a Kiwi.
posted by mippy at 3:59 AM on May 17, 2011
It's the hideous romcom type ones I dislike. I used to live somewhere that had Sky, and my then-housemates decided to watch Faliure To Launch. My Aunt Fanny, that is a terrible film. I got my own back by watching Kes, and not remembering that a thick Yorkshire accent is probably difficult to parse by a South African and a Kiwi.
posted by mippy at 3:59 AM on May 17, 2011
saw the poster defaced in the subway so it said:
I RIDE
MAIDS
posted by Eideteker at 4:12 AM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
I RIDE
MAIDS
posted by Eideteker at 4:12 AM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
There's a terrific interview with Melissa McCarthy in Entertainment Weekly where she says her idea for the character was Guy Fieri from the Food Network. BIG LOUD BIG LOUD, not in a literal sense of her physical size, but in having a completely outsized personality. She says that was her choice when she auditioned, to be, as she puts it, really "weird."
I had some of the same reaction to her being treated as a joke that some of the uncomfortable other folks did, but at the same time, she was really funny, and she's played enough sweethearts in her career that if she's okay with this, I'm okay with it. Melissa McCarthy doesn't have any shame problems, that I've ever been able to see, and as soon as I read "Guy Fieri," I thought, "Oh, wow, OF COURSE." By the end, I saw her character as more "burly" than fat, if that makes sense -- her size didn't in any way imply weakness or self-loathing or anything like that, and unless I'm forgetting something, she wasn't constantly walking around with a donut in her mouth. She's an outsized character, but I don't think she was being fat-shamed. And interestingly, when she interacts with a guy, there's no indication that he's reacting to her size -- he's reacting to her personality, and that's exactly what should happen. So I completely understand how someone who's tired of seeing fat women in movies always be jokes might find her off-putting, but she has just as much right to be a buffoon occasionally when she chooses to be as anyone else.
Disclaimer: I think she's absolutely faboo, even on the subpar sitcom she stars in.
posted by Linda_Holmes at 4:32 AM on May 17, 2011 [5 favorites]
I had some of the same reaction to her being treated as a joke that some of the uncomfortable other folks did, but at the same time, she was really funny, and she's played enough sweethearts in her career that if she's okay with this, I'm okay with it. Melissa McCarthy doesn't have any shame problems, that I've ever been able to see, and as soon as I read "Guy Fieri," I thought, "Oh, wow, OF COURSE." By the end, I saw her character as more "burly" than fat, if that makes sense -- her size didn't in any way imply weakness or self-loathing or anything like that, and unless I'm forgetting something, she wasn't constantly walking around with a donut in her mouth. She's an outsized character, but I don't think she was being fat-shamed. And interestingly, when she interacts with a guy, there's no indication that he's reacting to her size -- he's reacting to her personality, and that's exactly what should happen. So I completely understand how someone who's tired of seeing fat women in movies always be jokes might find her off-putting, but she has just as much right to be a buffoon occasionally when she chooses to be as anyone else.
Disclaimer: I think she's absolutely faboo, even on the subpar sitcom she stars in.
posted by Linda_Holmes at 4:32 AM on May 17, 2011 [5 favorites]
Saw it on Friday and thought it was funny - although I skipped the food poisoning scene.
I really enjoyed the Melissa McCartney character (she played the groom's sister btw, not the bride's). As said above, she was the one person in the whole film who was self-aware and okay with who she is. Yes, she comes across as brash and rude but it isn't because she doesn't have a filter between her brain & mouth (the Zach Galifianakis character in The Hangover is especially this) or some mental/social defect (Chris Farley characters) - she really just doesn't give a damn about what people think about her and does what she wants.
(There's something to be said about the Megan and Ted (Jon Hamm) characters in this film. In 'real life' Ted might be the more admired person -- he's pretty, fit, rich. Megan is not pretty, not fit, not as apparently rich. But don't you like her more?)
Jon Hamm plays the perfect "that guy". The 'hey, fuck buddy' greeting? and the 'third favorite girl' comment. He does smarmy well. I also appreciated the set dressing for him -- Annie keeps her bra on with him. The half a head board (his side of the bed, natch), the ultra-modern house complete with privacy gate that looked like LA (but the movie was set in the Midwest).
I also like the Helen Harris (Rose Byrne) character (I'd really love to know where the Helen Harris "III" comes from on the invitation - is she the third Helen married to her husband?). Compare the tennis scene in Bridesmaids with the one in Two Weeks Notice (Sandra Bullock/Hugh Grant film). The way Helen & Annie just keep hitting each other. In a RomCom, it would be one hit to the chest and game over - like the Two Weeks Notice game between Lucy & June. Then again, Lucy & June were fighting over their place in a man's life. Annie and Helen are fighting over their place in a woman's life. That says something about the value of friendship in this film vs the value of romance in both films.
posted by jaimystery at 4:58 AM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
I really enjoyed the Melissa McCartney character (she played the groom's sister btw, not the bride's). As said above, she was the one person in the whole film who was self-aware and okay with who she is. Yes, she comes across as brash and rude but it isn't because she doesn't have a filter between her brain & mouth (the Zach Galifianakis character in The Hangover is especially this) or some mental/social defect (Chris Farley characters) - she really just doesn't give a damn about what people think about her and does what she wants.
(There's something to be said about the Megan and Ted (Jon Hamm) characters in this film. In 'real life' Ted might be the more admired person -- he's pretty, fit, rich. Megan is not pretty, not fit, not as apparently rich. But don't you like her more?)
Jon Hamm plays the perfect "that guy". The 'hey, fuck buddy' greeting? and the 'third favorite girl' comment. He does smarmy well. I also appreciated the set dressing for him -- Annie keeps her bra on with him. The half a head board (his side of the bed, natch), the ultra-modern house complete with privacy gate that looked like LA (but the movie was set in the Midwest).
I also like the Helen Harris (Rose Byrne) character (I'd really love to know where the Helen Harris "III" comes from on the invitation - is she the third Helen married to her husband?). Compare the tennis scene in Bridesmaids with the one in Two Weeks Notice (Sandra Bullock/Hugh Grant film). The way Helen & Annie just keep hitting each other. In a RomCom, it would be one hit to the chest and game over - like the Two Weeks Notice game between Lucy & June. Then again, Lucy & June were fighting over their place in a man's life. Annie and Helen are fighting over their place in a woman's life. That says something about the value of friendship in this film vs the value of romance in both films.
posted by jaimystery at 4:58 AM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
You know, just because something has women in it, that doesn't make it a "feminist statement" or whatever.
I remember the very same flurry of media attention back when Thelma and Louise came out, where everyone was plastering it all over the media because it was a "feminist statement". But Khalie Couri, the screenwriter, denied that that's what it was -- she was just making a traditional "buddy movie," it's just that the characters happened to be women instead of men.
Bridesmaids is a fairly standard Judd Aptow "bunch of friends dealing with stuff" movie. It's just that it's women instead of men, but other than that everything is pretty much the same. The fact that everyone is treating it as A New Era In Women's Film says much more about us than the film.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:13 AM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
I remember the very same flurry of media attention back when Thelma and Louise came out, where everyone was plastering it all over the media because it was a "feminist statement". But Khalie Couri, the screenwriter, denied that that's what it was -- she was just making a traditional "buddy movie," it's just that the characters happened to be women instead of men.
Bridesmaids is a fairly standard Judd Aptow "bunch of friends dealing with stuff" movie. It's just that it's women instead of men, but other than that everything is pretty much the same. The fact that everyone is treating it as A New Era In Women's Film says much more about us than the film.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:13 AM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
Funny as hell. I cried laughing at some parts and I cried regular at other parts. Maya Rudolph was fantastic, as she always is. Kristen Wiig was great, too. She rides the fine line of "almost too uncomfortable to watch" perfectly (the speech scene & the shower scene). Even the romantic male lead is not overly "perfect." He's a little schlubby and acts like a jerk for a bit. This was a great comedy.
posted by ColdChef at 5:25 AM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by ColdChef at 5:25 AM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
I pretty much hate the term "chick flick", partly because society generally loves to assign "masculine" good, "feminine" bad values to everything and the term has become maligned.
Agreed. I was quite cross when a male friend of mine surveyed the few movies I own (i.e., The Age of Innocence, Howard's End, Far From Heaven) and said, "Hey, so you like high-brow chick flicks."
Can we talk about Jon Hamm?
Let's!!!
posted by orange swan at 5:41 AM on May 17, 2011
Agreed. I was quite cross when a male friend of mine surveyed the few movies I own (i.e., The Age of Innocence, Howard's End, Far From Heaven) and said, "Hey, so you like high-brow chick flicks."
Can we talk about Jon Hamm?
Let's!!!
posted by orange swan at 5:41 AM on May 17, 2011
Can we talk about Jon Hamm?
Let's!!!
His restaurant has a seriously limited menu.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:51 AM on May 17, 2011 [5 favorites]
Let's!!!
His restaurant has a seriously limited menu.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:51 AM on May 17, 2011 [5 favorites]
Everything comes with a snide of Floppy hair and Knowing Smirk.
posted by The Whelk at 5:55 AM on May 17, 2011
posted by The Whelk at 5:55 AM on May 17, 2011
Augh I've just remembered how shitey mcshite When Harry Met Sally was. Why were there old couples in it for no reason whatsoever? Do women really fake orgasm rather than tell their partners what to do? And, aside from the 'can men and women be friends' trope (because men are like this and women are like this amirite) the ending was less of a surprise than flipping Love Story.
BILLY CRYSTAL YOU OWE ME £2.50
posted by mippy at 5:58 AM on May 17, 2011
BILLY CRYSTAL YOU OWE ME £2.50
posted by mippy at 5:58 AM on May 17, 2011
Jon Hamm is this decade's Christopher Meloni; his major long running TV role wherein he plays Big McSerious (Don Draper and Det. Elliot Stabler, respectively) makes it really surprising whenever they remind everyone they're goddamn hilarious.
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 6:12 AM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 6:12 AM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
I guess the point of the movie is that uncontrolled vomiting and shitting is just as funny and/or disgusting when women do it as when men do it. And that drawn out, Saturday Night live skits are also just as unfunny when women do it as when men do it.
posted by mrhappy at 6:13 AM on May 17, 2011
posted by mrhappy at 6:13 AM on May 17, 2011
Can't stand Kristin Wiig (I think she and Tina Fey are overrated like Oprah) so I'm not seeing it. Besides, unless there is a capuchin in Bridesmaids, it's not worth seeing. Capuchins RULE!
posted by stormpooper at 6:17 AM on May 17, 2011
posted by stormpooper at 6:17 AM on May 17, 2011
It'll be interesting to see if it flies over here - we don't get SNL, 30 Rock/ The Office (US)/ Veronica Mars weren't shown on mainstream channels here, and I'm not 100% sure Freaks and Geeks was even shown. So the marketing's going to be all 'The Hangover for girls! With Roy from The IT Crowd!' rather than 'a film with loads of funny actresses'.
posted by mippy at 6:23 AM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by mippy at 6:23 AM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
(Actually I saw SNL for the first time last night. It had Jon Hamm in it. I now fancy Jon Hamm and want him to defend me after terrible auditions.)
Doesn't Rich Sommer, of Harry Crane off of Mad Men fame, also do a lot of improv stuff?
posted by mippy at 6:24 AM on May 17, 2011
Doesn't Rich Sommer, of Harry Crane off of Mad Men fame, also do a lot of improv stuff?
posted by mippy at 6:24 AM on May 17, 2011
Jon Hamm is this decade's Christopher Meloni
I have just recast Oz in my head. It is much, much better.
posted by londonmark at 6:27 AM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
I have just recast Oz in my head. It is much, much better.
posted by londonmark at 6:27 AM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
I think that to hail this above average, successfully funny comedy as a triumph for feminism and comedy says a lot about our miserable standards for both. That being said, I loved it. Imop the best ensemble comedy starring women since 9 to 5. What's this nonsense in one of the OP reviews about Kristin Wiigs outfit being shabby? She looked darling and stylish to me.
posted by Lisitasan at 6:30 AM on May 17, 2011
posted by Lisitasan at 6:30 AM on May 17, 2011
Loving Maya Rudolph is easy because her mother is Minnie Ripperton.
I can't believe I didn't know that. Wow. (I also didn't realize Riperton - whose famous crazy high is permanently etched in my brain - died so young.)
posted by aught at 6:45 AM on May 17, 2011
I can't believe I didn't know that. Wow. (I also didn't realize Riperton - whose famous crazy high is permanently etched in my brain - died so young.)
posted by aught at 6:45 AM on May 17, 2011
She says that was her choice when she auditioned, to be, as she puts it, really "weird."
That's nice to hear. The Chris Farley comparison upthread (I don't know Guy Fieri) was what I got from the trailer. I just don't think that making that character a woman is a Great Feminist Advance in Filmmaking.
I recently watched Tamara Drewe, which was made by a man but was based on a graphic novel by a woman. One of the interesting things for me about the trailer to that movie was the US trailer billed it as a pretty standard romantic comedy in the chick flick style. A friend of mine pointed out the UK trailer, which was completely different and made the film out to be a properly British black comedy (it was serialized in the Guardian). It turned out that the British trailer was dead on and I would have overlooked it completely on the basis of the US trailer. I didn't think a misleading trailer was going to be the case here, but given that one of the links talks about how the poster misleads people about the film's content, it seemed possible.
posted by immlass at 6:45 AM on May 17, 2011
That's nice to hear. The Chris Farley comparison upthread (I don't know Guy Fieri) was what I got from the trailer. I just don't think that making that character a woman is a Great Feminist Advance in Filmmaking.
I recently watched Tamara Drewe, which was made by a man but was based on a graphic novel by a woman. One of the interesting things for me about the trailer to that movie was the US trailer billed it as a pretty standard romantic comedy in the chick flick style. A friend of mine pointed out the UK trailer, which was completely different and made the film out to be a properly British black comedy (it was serialized in the Guardian). It turned out that the British trailer was dead on and I would have overlooked it completely on the basis of the US trailer. I didn't think a misleading trailer was going to be the case here, but given that one of the links talks about how the poster misleads people about the film's content, it seemed possible.
posted by immlass at 6:45 AM on May 17, 2011
The Whelk: "not worth writhing home about."
Best. Typo. Ever.
posted by notsnot at 6:52 AM on May 17, 2011
Best. Typo. Ever.
posted by notsnot at 6:52 AM on May 17, 2011
> Loving Maya Rudolph is easy because her mother is Minnie Ripperton.
I can't believe I didn't know that. Wow.
Hell, Minnie Ripperton even sings Maya's name over and over for a few seconds in the middle of the song.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:25 AM on May 17, 2011
I can't believe I didn't know that. Wow.
Hell, Minnie Ripperton even sings Maya's name over and over for a few seconds in the middle of the song.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:25 AM on May 17, 2011
saw the poster defaced in the subway so it said:
I RIDE
MAIDS
That was commentary on Dominique Strauss-Kahn, not the movie.
posted by briank at 7:43 AM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
I RIDE
MAIDS
That was commentary on Dominique Strauss-Kahn, not the movie.
posted by briank at 7:43 AM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
Rumor has it that Apatow had them film and add the food poisoning scenes after the fact to make it more "universally appealing" (i.e., to men), which may explain why that scene felt a little different from the rest and even from the other major destruction-type scene in the movie.
I quite liked it, and I even went into it a bit wary of how they were going to treat the Melissa McCarthy character. But I agree that was a personality-driven character not a weight-based punching bag. Her weight is not immaterial (but in this society, women's weight rarely is), but it is not used as shorthand for a personality or as an outsized personality characteristic. Her over-the-top appetites and "lack of control" (the two frequent characteristics when portraying fat people) in this movie are for a man and adorable party favors, not for food. She eats, sure, but they all eat and suffer for it.
From what I remember (and I could be wrong), Chris Farley tended to shorthand his fatness as a personality characteristic, as if he could beat you to the joke by making it first. He ate in a great visual show; his physical comedy made his size a key component; conversely, in this movie, McCarthy's size isn't her overwhelming characteristic. When they put her in bridesmaid dresses, that's not a joke (there's no shaming for size, no relegation to the ugliest bridesmaid dress, no extra special shaming in the food poisoning scene). There's no show in her eating. The scenes where we, having brought our own social baggage, are invited to laugh at her boomerang on us by the end of the movie.
I may be projecting hugely, but I saw her as being a woman who was a little bit freed of being traditional by her fatness. If Helen's character was imprisoned by some of the traditional expectations of womanly expectation (to "win" through marriage and popularity and appearance), than Megan was the opposite, someone who found a way to be herself outside the court of social expectation. I don't think that it's a coincidence that she is the most happily situated professionally and personally among the bridesmaids, and that she operates without that veneer that society expects women to display. She's aggressive without the pretense women often feel like they have to cloak it in. She's a little crude in the way women are encouraged not to be (at least in public!). Her confidence is cocky, but it emerges from her own confidence in her competence and in her person.
tl;dr: I had no problem with the character when I left the movie, and I think of myself as being sensitive to the issue.
posted by julen at 8:15 AM on May 17, 2011 [6 favorites]
I quite liked it, and I even went into it a bit wary of how they were going to treat the Melissa McCarthy character. But I agree that was a personality-driven character not a weight-based punching bag. Her weight is not immaterial (but in this society, women's weight rarely is), but it is not used as shorthand for a personality or as an outsized personality characteristic. Her over-the-top appetites and "lack of control" (the two frequent characteristics when portraying fat people) in this movie are for a man and adorable party favors, not for food. She eats, sure, but they all eat and suffer for it.
From what I remember (and I could be wrong), Chris Farley tended to shorthand his fatness as a personality characteristic, as if he could beat you to the joke by making it first. He ate in a great visual show; his physical comedy made his size a key component; conversely, in this movie, McCarthy's size isn't her overwhelming characteristic. When they put her in bridesmaid dresses, that's not a joke (there's no shaming for size, no relegation to the ugliest bridesmaid dress, no extra special shaming in the food poisoning scene). There's no show in her eating. The scenes where we, having brought our own social baggage, are invited to laugh at her boomerang on us by the end of the movie.
I may be projecting hugely, but I saw her as being a woman who was a little bit freed of being traditional by her fatness. If Helen's character was imprisoned by some of the traditional expectations of womanly expectation (to "win" through marriage and popularity and appearance), than Megan was the opposite, someone who found a way to be herself outside the court of social expectation. I don't think that it's a coincidence that she is the most happily situated professionally and personally among the bridesmaids, and that she operates without that veneer that society expects women to display. She's aggressive without the pretense women often feel like they have to cloak it in. She's a little crude in the way women are encouraged not to be (at least in public!). Her confidence is cocky, but it emerges from her own confidence in her competence and in her person.
tl;dr: I had no problem with the character when I left the movie, and I think of myself as being sensitive to the issue.
posted by julen at 8:15 AM on May 17, 2011 [6 favorites]
There used to be tons of "women's movies" (which in itself is a derisive term, because what are segregated as "women's movies" are among the best movies ever made) greenlighted in Hollywood, but studios decided in the 1980s that they were money-losers and stopped wanting to film them unless there was some very significant heroic effort on the part of the people behind the movies to push past studio heads' opposition and get them made. Paramount didn't want to make "The First Wives' Club" and it was a smash hit. Same story with "Pretty Woman," which was the biggest hit of the year it was released, even though its concept was loathed by almost everybody at Disney.
Don't know that "Bridesmaids" is a smash hit, but it sure outperformed "Fast Five" at the box office last weekend, not to mention "Jumping the Broom" and "Something Borrowed."
I remember the very same flurry of media attention back when Thelma and Louise came out, where everyone was plastering it all over the media because it was a "feminist statement". But Khalie Couri, the screenwriter, denied that that's what it was -- she was just making a traditional "buddy movie," it's just that the characters happened to be women instead of men.
Khouri may have intended it to be a buddy picture, but there have been enough feminist exegeses of the gender politics of "Thelma & Louise" written to fill a small library.
posted by blucevalo at 8:15 AM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
Don't know that "Bridesmaids" is a smash hit, but it sure outperformed "Fast Five" at the box office last weekend, not to mention "Jumping the Broom" and "Something Borrowed."
I remember the very same flurry of media attention back when Thelma and Louise came out, where everyone was plastering it all over the media because it was a "feminist statement". But Khalie Couri, the screenwriter, denied that that's what it was -- she was just making a traditional "buddy movie," it's just that the characters happened to be women instead of men.
Khouri may have intended it to be a buddy picture, but there have been enough feminist exegeses of the gender politics of "Thelma & Louise" written to fill a small library.
posted by blucevalo at 8:15 AM on May 17, 2011 [2 favorites]
Give me lady Jackass, or give me death.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 8:39 AM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by evidenceofabsence at 8:39 AM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
Give me lady Jackass, or give me death.
They tried that. It was called Rad Girls. It was the worst thing on the planet.
posted by Sticherbeast at 8:59 AM on May 17, 2011
They tried that. It was called Rad Girls. It was the worst thing on the planet.
posted by Sticherbeast at 8:59 AM on May 17, 2011
Finally I get a chance to post possibly the most awesum rock and roll photograph ever taken (Bon Scott with the Heathen Girls).
posted by unSane at 9:16 AM on May 17, 2011
posted by unSane at 9:16 AM on May 17, 2011
No, apparenly it was Wiig who wanted to add the dirtier stuff and Apatow who wanted to add the sweeter stuff.
posted by fraserlee at 9:47 AM on May 17, 2011
posted by fraserlee at 9:47 AM on May 17, 2011
especially if the Judd-Aptow aping trailers are anything to go by.
The trailers are not aping Apatow; he produced the movie.
posted by torticat at 9:53 AM on May 17, 2011
The trailers are not aping Apatow; he produced the movie.
posted by torticat at 9:53 AM on May 17, 2011
Khouri may have intended it to be a buddy picture, but there have been enough feminist exegeses of the gender politics of "Thelma & Louise" written to fill a small library.
True, but that only proves my point - that the fact that everyone took it that way says more about the audience than the film itself.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:19 AM on May 17, 2011
True, but that only proves my point - that the fact that everyone took it that way says more about the audience than the film itself.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:19 AM on May 17, 2011
Stitcherbeast- Oh man. I...I had no idea.
I need to spend some time figuring out all the reasons Rad Girls just doesn't work—the obvious one being that it's as much Jackass as it is Jim and Derrick Show.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 10:34 AM on May 17, 2011
I need to spend some time figuring out all the reasons Rad Girls just doesn't work—the obvious one being that it's as much Jackass as it is Jim and Derrick Show.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 10:34 AM on May 17, 2011
I saw the movie last night and was initially pissed off. I think my exact words to my boyfriend when I came home were, "It was a f*cking rom-com!" I mean, that was the subplot, but a subplot that the movie ended on. I thought I was going to see an ensemble comedy featuring the amazing Ellie Kemper, Wendi McLendon-Covey, and Matt Lucas.
Then I thought about it more. I guess the problem I have is the way the movie was marketed, and the way it is being held aloft as The Last Great Hope For Funny Hollywood Women. I read a lot about women complaining about Apatow supposedly grafting the gross-out parts on to the story in order to get a male audience, but nobody said hoot about the Sixteen Candles ripoff ending (actually, Sixteen Candles happened to have an interesting female lead and plenty of off-color laffs, but I digress...). Seriously, did anybody read anything about this other than "it's a great film about female friendships and also there's some barfing and diarrhea"? After watching the movie, I read a few more articles, and did find some people criticizing the cop romance thing, but then other commenters kept defending it by saying it wasn't important that she pursued him, but she pursued him by doing what she loved (baking a cake - oh man).
I'm a sucker for a decent rom-com, but I just wasn't prepared that this movie was going to go that route. I was really dying for a movie with the gross-out humor and the friendship triangle aspects. (Also, more ensemble.) I know that a lot of other people would have preferred friendship triangle + more romantic subplot. I guess my feeling is, why can't there be both?
posted by queensissy at 10:56 AM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
Then I thought about it more. I guess the problem I have is the way the movie was marketed, and the way it is being held aloft as The Last Great Hope For Funny Hollywood Women. I read a lot about women complaining about Apatow supposedly grafting the gross-out parts on to the story in order to get a male audience, but nobody said hoot about the Sixteen Candles ripoff ending (actually, Sixteen Candles happened to have an interesting female lead and plenty of off-color laffs, but I digress...). Seriously, did anybody read anything about this other than "it's a great film about female friendships and also there's some barfing and diarrhea"? After watching the movie, I read a few more articles, and did find some people criticizing the cop romance thing, but then other commenters kept defending it by saying it wasn't important that she pursued him, but she pursued him by doing what she loved (baking a cake - oh man).
I'm a sucker for a decent rom-com, but I just wasn't prepared that this movie was going to go that route. I was really dying for a movie with the gross-out humor and the friendship triangle aspects. (Also, more ensemble.) I know that a lot of other people would have preferred friendship triangle + more romantic subplot. I guess my feeling is, why can't there be both?
posted by queensissy at 10:56 AM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
I saw it, and all I kept thinking was, "wow, these are great characters, there is good writing here in places, so why am I watching a movie about a wedding again? I want to watch a remake of the Office with them in it instead of dudes. That is the movie I want to be watching right now."
posted by slow graffiti at 11:53 AM on May 17, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by slow graffiti at 11:53 AM on May 17, 2011 [3 favorites]
"Correction, Whelk. Studios LOVE cheap comedies. They HATE expensive comedies."
With this in mind please explain the greenlighting of "Old Dogs."
posted by stratastar at 12:09 PM on May 17, 2011
With this in mind please explain the greenlighting of "Old Dogs."
posted by stratastar at 12:09 PM on May 17, 2011
Actually OLD DOGS was fairly cheap ($35m). Cheap in Hollywood terms means under $40m.
posted by unSane at 12:17 PM on May 17, 2011
posted by unSane at 12:17 PM on May 17, 2011
(And even Old Dogs made $100m worldwide. It would have been a bona fide moneymaker if they'd made it for $25m, which is the sweet spot for comedies).
posted by unSane at 12:19 PM on May 17, 2011
posted by unSane at 12:19 PM on May 17, 2011
Loving Maya Rudolph is easy because her mother is Minnie Ripperton.
I see what you did there, Senor Cardgage.
posted by KillaSeal at 12:19 PM on May 17, 2011
I see what you did there, Senor Cardgage.
posted by KillaSeal at 12:19 PM on May 17, 2011
I saw it last night. I quite enjoyed it. I wasn't too thrilled at first with the whole "women going nuts over a wedding" motif, but since it's been a dramatic trope since time immemorial that comedies end in weddings and tragedies end in funerals, I'm not going to hate on the movie for that. I wanted more Wendi McLendon-Covey, who is phenomenal, but it's not quite an ensemble piece so I can live with that too.
Almost more than the movie, though, I enjoyed the audience. I don't go to the movie theater very often except for whizz-bang comic book explosion stuff, so I have absolutely no idea how typical or atypical the audience was for movies in general. There were lots of women-who-are-obviously-best-friends pairs all around, and they were having a fantastic time, especially during the excellent first ten minutes. Judging from the very vocal reactions, the movie said some pretty true things. So, yeah, interesting characters and situations, a few surprises I didn't see coming, plenty of well-timed jokes = good movie.
I have no idea whether it's the great feminist hope or not, I sort of doubt it. But an all-women leading cast, most of whom are over thirty, is a pretty rare Hollywood event these days, so if the movie's success can convince studios to broaden the range of available roles for adult women, that can only be a good outcome.
posted by Errant at 12:54 PM on May 17, 2011
Almost more than the movie, though, I enjoyed the audience. I don't go to the movie theater very often except for whizz-bang comic book explosion stuff, so I have absolutely no idea how typical or atypical the audience was for movies in general. There were lots of women-who-are-obviously-best-friends pairs all around, and they were having a fantastic time, especially during the excellent first ten minutes. Judging from the very vocal reactions, the movie said some pretty true things. So, yeah, interesting characters and situations, a few surprises I didn't see coming, plenty of well-timed jokes = good movie.
I have no idea whether it's the great feminist hope or not, I sort of doubt it. But an all-women leading cast, most of whom are over thirty, is a pretty rare Hollywood event these days, so if the movie's success can convince studios to broaden the range of available roles for adult women, that can only be a good outcome.
posted by Errant at 12:54 PM on May 17, 2011
People complaining about the rom-com angle: did that surprise you? Did you think it was grafted in just because the story was about women?
Pretty much every Apatow movie is a rom-com. Knocked Up, 40 Year Old Virgin, and Forgetting Sarah Marshall are all straight-up rom-coms, albeit with some tweaks. Funny People and Get Him To The Greek also had heavily weighted romantic subplots. Superbad wasn't a rom-com, but the friends' pursuit of two girls is literally what drove the plot (and the emotional stakes). Bridesmaids having a romantic subplot is not at all surprising.
posted by Sticherbeast at 1:50 PM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
Pretty much every Apatow movie is a rom-com. Knocked Up, 40 Year Old Virgin, and Forgetting Sarah Marshall are all straight-up rom-coms, albeit with some tweaks. Funny People and Get Him To The Greek also had heavily weighted romantic subplots. Superbad wasn't a rom-com, but the friends' pursuit of two girls is literally what drove the plot (and the emotional stakes). Bridesmaids having a romantic subplot is not at all surprising.
posted by Sticherbeast at 1:50 PM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
i saw it last night, can't stop quoting it this morning. i laughed til i cried in so many parts. the friend i went with said there is some kind of HBO behind the scenes that's 13 minutes long? with lots of hilarious outtakes that didn't make it into the movie but i can't find it online anywhere... anyone have any ideas?
posted by cristinacristinacristina at 2:23 PM on May 17, 2011
posted by cristinacristinacristina at 2:23 PM on May 17, 2011
Did you think it was grafted in just because the story was about women?
No, and I'm still trying to figure out what it was there for. My best guess is from Kristen Wiig's interview with Jon Stewart last week, where she admitted that she and Mumalo had no idea how to write a screenplay so they bought "how to write a screenplay" books that told her what had to happen on page 30 and at the midpoint and what would be a nice punch at the end. I hope Wiig makes a big bonfire out of all her Syd Field books before she writes her next movie.
posted by queensissy at 4:50 PM on May 17, 2011
No, and I'm still trying to figure out what it was there for. My best guess is from Kristen Wiig's interview with Jon Stewart last week, where she admitted that she and Mumalo had no idea how to write a screenplay so they bought "how to write a screenplay" books that told her what had to happen on page 30 and at the midpoint and what would be a nice punch at the end. I hope Wiig makes a big bonfire out of all her Syd Field books before she writes her next movie.
posted by queensissy at 4:50 PM on May 17, 2011
My wife and I saw it last night. Some funny parts, but overall it was just so so. Netflix recommended for sure, movie theater? Nope.
posted by rulethirty at 6:34 PM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by rulethirty at 6:34 PM on May 17, 2011 [1 favorite]
Putting Chris O'Dowd in there as love interest was just a brilliant move, because c'mon, he is sooo cuuuutteee. I forget the moment, but at some point in the movie he did something and there was an audible "awww" from the girls in the theater. Now THAT is how you make a chick flick. A little awwwww Chris O'Dowd and a lot of looolllll Melissa McCarthy and food poisoning.
I thought Wiig was not as funny as I find her in SNL, but not bad at all. Melissa McCarthy stole the freaking show though. What an amazing riot she was. I love a cocky woman on film and she was cocky as hell. I swear they gave her the best lines. I want to see MORE OF HER. She was at least as funny as Galifianakis.
posted by ch1x0r at 6:50 PM on May 17, 2011
I thought Wiig was not as funny as I find her in SNL, but not bad at all. Melissa McCarthy stole the freaking show though. What an amazing riot she was. I love a cocky woman on film and she was cocky as hell. I swear they gave her the best lines. I want to see MORE OF HER. She was at least as funny as Galifianakis.
posted by ch1x0r at 6:50 PM on May 17, 2011
"And even Old Dogs made $100m worldwide."
What... the... how... losing faith in... humanity.... I guess if there's a movie open to dubbing it would have been that.
I'm still in shock.
posted by stratastar at 10:02 PM on May 17, 2011
What... the... how... losing faith in... humanity.... I guess if there's a movie open to dubbing it would have been that.
I'm still in shock.
posted by stratastar at 10:02 PM on May 17, 2011
Worldwide revenues are heavily dependent on cast, and worldwide popularity heavily lags domestic popularity. So Robin Williams / John Travolta would really goose the worldwide. That is a great pairing for a $35m movie. It should have done much better. This also goes some way to explaining why Tom Cruise and Jennifer Aniston still have careers.
The exception to the rule is action/3D, which is why you see newcomers frequently cast in these tentpoles.
posted by unSane at 3:50 AM on May 18, 2011
The exception to the rule is action/3D, which is why you see newcomers frequently cast in these tentpoles.
posted by unSane at 3:50 AM on May 18, 2011
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And most of the females may have been drunk. I can't remember the last time I heard an audience actually do - for real - a collective AWWwwwww during a movie.
posted by jeffmik at 8:21 PM on May 16, 2011 [1 favorite]