Credit in the Straight World
May 23, 2011 1:22 PM   Subscribe

“According to Leanne Payne’s 1985 classic Crisis in Masculinity, the main reason men become gay is because they’ve lost touch with their masculinity. This causes a void in their souls, which they then attempt to fill with other men’s dicks. To rectify this situation, I gave my life a full heterosexual makeover . . .”
posted by Houyhnhnm (92 comments total) 38 users marked this as a favorite

 
Pretty much the best article ever.
posted by the young rope-rider at 1:31 PM on May 23, 2011 [5 favorites]


I've lost touch with my masculinity and I don't even get to be gay.

* begins fashioning taser from disposable camera *
posted by everichon at 1:32 PM on May 23, 2011 [5 favorites]


Is he wearing Palladium shoes in that last picture? Those are sweet shoes. Can someone knowledgeable provide a ruling on where they fall on the Kinsey scale?
posted by Greg Nog at 1:32 PM on May 23, 2011


Hole — by Henry Gibson

There's a hole
In my soul.
I need to fill it;
Come and drill it,
Other men (with
Other dicks)
With other dicks.
posted by pracowity at 1:33 PM on May 23, 2011 [9 favorites]


I love that the writer apparently sleeps with a signed photo of Courtney Love over his bed.
posted by Houyhnhnm at 1:34 PM on May 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


Much like a horoscope, this applies to every single person on earth: LOL!
posted by theredpen at 1:35 PM on May 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


I was quite delighted when I eventually discovered that there was more than just the first page.
posted by shakespeherian at 1:39 PM on May 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


the main reason men become gay is because they’ve lost touch with their masculinity

I never quite understood that. My gay friend is so gay that he semiseriously has a sign in his house that says "no girls allowed". If doing nothing but spending time with other men isn't masculine, then what is?
posted by Melismata at 1:39 PM on May 23, 2011 [6 favorites]


Reparative therapy is based around the theory that gays are spawned from a specific parental combination: an overbearing mother and emotionally unavailable father. This doesn’t really apply to me, but that’s cool because there are a TON of other things that cause homosexuality: loneliness, sexual abuse, low self-esteem, “artisticness,” lack of confidence (anyone who has ever been to a gay-pride parade can confirm that queers lack confidence), repressed childhood trauma, and platonic female friendships. Much like a horoscope, this applies to every single person on earth.
posted by Avenger at 1:39 PM on May 23, 2011 [9 favorites]


The bottle of Jeager was a great touch but that 360 isn't even hooked up to anything.
posted by Ad hominem at 1:40 PM on May 23, 2011 [2 favorites]


At one point I got turned on while watching an argument between Meat Loaf and Gary Busey on Celebrity Apprentice. Ugh.

You poor guy.

The main areas I focused on were “bioenergetics therapy” (hitting a pillow while screaming, “WHY DAD?!?!”), “touch therapy” (no-homo spooning sessions with straight dudes

Why didn't they have this shit when I was a teenager trying to "go straight"?
posted by blucevalo at 1:40 PM on May 23, 2011 [5 favorites]


I lost track of my masculinity, once. Turns out he was just sleeping off a two-year hangover in a cheap apartment downtown. He called again when he ran out of money, just like he always does, the cheap bastard.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:41 PM on May 23, 2011 [17 favorites]


Wait, so a picture of a scantily clad, rippling muscled young man is the less gay thing to hang on the wall?
posted by norm at 1:41 PM on May 23, 2011 [19 favorites]


Why didn't they have this shit when I was a teenager trying to "go straight"?

Think of all the cuddling you missed out on!
posted by shakespeherian at 1:42 PM on May 23, 2011 [3 favorites]


"Touch therapy worked about as well as treating alcoholism with beer bongs."

Yup. The Whelk said it well before:
"Sooo you wanna know my favorite bit of ex-gay nonsense?

Touch Therapy.

The reasoning goes that the reaosn you're gay is because you didn't form a bond with your father, so you have to engage in lots of close, sustained physical contact with your "therapists" to reestablish said bond."
posted by ericb at 1:44 PM on May 23, 2011 [3 favorites]


I get the jokes in an abstract way, but I have to admit that I feel kind of weird about laughing along at this, when Uganda and parts of the United States are serious about wanting capital punishment for gay people. I'm not totally sure that society has moved far enough along to crack jokes about ECT as a "cure".
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:46 PM on May 23, 2011


Previous FPP regarding 'touch' and other forms of therapy to 'pray the gay away.'
posted by ericb at 1:46 PM on May 23, 2011


Is that a wii...did it get traded for an xbox360? Are 360's more hetero?

Also, coldplay. Nobody should like coldplay. Not straight, not gay, not anybody.
posted by hal_c_on at 1:47 PM on May 23, 2011 [5 favorites]


...parts of the United States are serious about wanting capital punishment for gay people.

Huh?
posted by hal_c_on at 1:49 PM on May 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


I love the expression on his face while he's looking at straight porn. "Wut? Really? How's that work? Ew."
posted by Quietgal at 1:49 PM on May 23, 2011 [3 favorites]


I never quite understood that. My gay friend is so gay that he semiseriously has a sign in his house that says "no girls allowed". If doing nothing but spending time with other men isn't masculine, then what is?

I read an interesting article recently about the war against motherhood - the period of time post-Freud, pre-Friedan when we concluded that stay-at-home moms smother their sons and turning them into homosexual mamma's boys. Was it linked on Metafilter or somewhere else?
posted by muddgirl at 1:49 PM on May 23, 2011


Now I want a porn-and-candy night too!
posted by litleozy at 1:50 PM on May 23, 2011 [2 favorites]


Steve Hughes: the "straightness" of gay men, and the "gayness" of straight men
posted by robbyrobs at 1:50 PM on May 23, 2011 [11 favorites]


What do you have against cold play? The occasional ice cube never hurt anybody.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:50 PM on May 23, 2011 [7 favorites]


I abstained from sex and masturbation for the duration of my experiment. Though I thought this would be totally ineffective, it actually had a fairly large impact on my sexuality by making me about 10,000 percent gayer. Now I know why closeted old gay guys cruise undercover police officers in airport bathrooms and hire male prostitutes to “carry their luggage.” I turned into a hypersexual monster.

Yeah, pretty much. A good friend of mine interned at a megachurch for a while, and had the thankless job of running the singles ministry. The church was large enough that there was a sizable group for divorced and widowed parishioners.

As he put it later, "I can't be blamed. There was just no way that anyone was going to be able to keep a bunch of forty-somethings who spend their friday night talking about how hard abstinence is after being married... from going home and boning each other immediately."
posted by verb at 1:50 PM on May 23, 2011 [28 favorites]


As tired as I am of the stereotyping trope that gay men can't listen to rock music or rap or like sports or action movies... I have to say this article redeemed itself by the end.

And just to be clear -- gay men can and do listen to rock music and rap and like sports and like action movies (and not just those creepy subtext-filled 80s muscle-fest flicks)...

I think sometimes that it's really MY version of Teh Gay which makes all the straight guys uncomfortable. I'm just like them, and they love hanging out with me because I know how to party and rock out regularly. Suddenly they're my friend, and they're calling me to see if I want to go see this band or hit this bar and play pool... and wait... did they just ask me on a date??? THEN they freak out and I never hear from them again.
posted by hippybear at 1:51 PM on May 23, 2011 [11 favorites]


Melismata: "If doing nothing but spending time with other men isn't masculine, then what is?"

The argument (which I absolutely reject, by the by) relies on you assuming that straight-ness is normal, that men are exclusively masculine, women are exclusively feminine and that masculine and feminine qualities are meant to complement each other in romantic relationships. The minute a guy lets feminine qualities creep into his psyche, he's opened the door for teh gay.

There's a bunch of reasons this doesn't make sense, of course, but the most obvious one is that, in order for it to work, some other gay guy has to be the "masculine" one and, if he's the "masculine" one, how did he end up gay in the first place?
posted by Apropos of Something at 1:53 PM on May 23, 2011 [4 favorites]


Based on the 'hetero conversion' portion of the article, it appears that I'm entirely gay aside from the minor detail of not engaging in gay sex.
posted by shakespeherian at 1:54 PM on May 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


Is that a wii...did it get traded for an xbox360? Are 360's more hetero?

No. Ask any fourteen year old kid on Live. They will gladly tell you exactly how gay you are for playing on the 360. Spoiler: It's a lot.
posted by ymgve at 1:56 PM on May 23, 2011 [38 favorites]


I tried to write a comment about the problems with masculinity=straight about a dozen times and then just decided to favorite hippybear's comment and the Stephen Hughes video that robbyrobs posted.
posted by jnrussell at 1:58 PM on May 23, 2011


it appears that I'm entirely gay aside from the minor detail of not engaging in gay sex.

Hey, does anyone remember back in the day when the media was obsessed with "metrosexuals?"

Entirely off-topic - when I was at the hardware store yesterday, I saw a large-print tape measure that was marketed as The Beast. I find that hilarious: "Are regular tape measures TOO SISSY for you??? Are you ready for... THE BEAST??"
posted by muddgirl at 1:59 PM on May 23, 2011 [5 favorites]


Speaking as a queer person in their 20s who grew up in a gay neighborhood and was raised by an absolutely fabulous village; I am so fucking grateful that both this author and I had the option to explore our sexualities on our own terms before being really exposed to this toxic shit. Almost all of my many aunts and uncles who I lived near, shoveled snow for, and went to church with had very different experiences from mine.
posted by Blasdelb at 1:59 PM on May 23, 2011 [3 favorites]


I saw a large-print tape measure that was marketed as The Beast. I find that hilarious: "Are regular tape measures TOO SISSY for you??? Are you ready for... THE BEAST??

Let me guess: It measures 66 and half feet?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:01 PM on May 23, 2011 [7 favorites]


Hey, does anyone remember back in the day when the media was obsessed with "metrosexuals?"

It was great! 'What the fuck is this, straight guys who own more than just greasy teeshirts from metal shows? THIS MUST BE A NEW CATEGORY OF INDIVIDUAL'
posted by shakespeherian at 2:02 PM on May 23, 2011 [20 favorites]


Heh, heh. He said "rectify".
posted by humboldt32 at 2:05 PM on May 23, 2011 [5 favorites]


I like the metrosexual phenomenon. But why did they have to be straight? It would have been better to have more sex with them.
posted by Lleyam at 2:17 PM on May 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


It’s easy to be cynical about the reparative-therapy movement and say that it’s a giant scam that preys on the hopes of desperate people, which is good because I’m feeling lazy today.
posted by Pruitt-Igoe at 2:27 PM on May 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


"There's a bunch of reasons this doesn't make sense, of course, but the most obvious one is that, in order for it to work, some other gay guy has to be the "masculine" one and, if he's the "masculine" one, how did he end up gay in the first place?"

For a fair amount of history, continuing to this day in a lot of places with less tolerant views of gays, that the dude doing the penetrating isn't gay, just horny.

Given enough time and enough bizarre reinforcement, it turns into shit like the dancing boys of Afghanistan, where it's not gay to fuck a teen boy, and it's not gay to get fucked as a teen boy, but any other time two men fuck, you have to kill them.
posted by klangklangston at 2:33 PM on May 23, 2011 [5 favorites]


It’s easy to be cynical about the reparative-therapy movement

Yes. Yes, it is.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:33 PM on May 23, 2011


This article was hilarious. Thanks for posting.
posted by maxwelton at 2:40 PM on May 23, 2011


Welp, if the author was in any danger of underestimating the continued prevalence and seriousness of anti-gay sentiments, the comments section definitely cured him. (Haha, "cured".)

Article is hilarious and displays an excellent grasp of the issues and psychology involved, however.

"Because I live in England and not some developing country like Nicuragua, Iran or the USA..."

lolz
posted by subdee at 2:41 PM on May 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


Goddammit why did you point out the comments to me.
posted by shakespeherian at 2:43 PM on May 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


By the same author, "chubs" (nsfw). Is that typical gay porn? I might have found my milieu.
posted by Ad hominem at 2:53 PM on May 23, 2011


Sorry, shakepherian :(

Just noticed this is in Vice, does that make it better? People in the mainstream are being confronted with concepts that self-aware gay people are already very familar with.
posted by subdee at 2:54 PM on May 23, 2011


What do you have against cold play? The occasional ice cube never hurt anybody.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:50 PM on May 23 [1 favorite +] [!]


How dare you!
posted by hal_c_on at 2:55 PM on May 23, 2011


It’s easy to be cynical about the reparative-therapy movement

It's also easy to know a jackass when he's humping a park bench.
posted by Bathtub Bobsled at 2:55 PM on May 23, 2011


My gay friend is so gay that he semiseriously has a sign in his house that says "no girls allowed".

Oh yeah? Well, my gay friend is so gay that the only woman he wants to get inside of is the Statue of Liberty.
posted by flarbuse at 3:07 PM on May 23, 2011


By the same author, "chubs" (nsfw). Is that typical gay porn? I might have found my milieu.

Um... Typical? Not really. Although it's right full in the middle of "bear/chub porn", which is often conflated into a single category although (like dance music purists) the categories can be delineated more finely than that.

But yeah, there's a whole sector of guys who like the big guys. These models are sort of on the outer edge of what makes me go *ping*, but I know plenty of guys who would put any of those photos on their computer desktop as part of their collection.
posted by hippybear at 3:09 PM on May 23, 2011


I was always told that celibacy works a lot better if you have some other sensually intense hobby to take the place of sex. Something athletic, probably.

I guess the "reparative therapy" business kinda works, after a fashion...
posted by LogicalDash at 3:17 PM on May 23, 2011


It is the filthy white socks that cracks me up. Damn man, put some effort in, class it up a bit.
posted by Ad hominem at 3:18 PM on May 23, 2011



hippybear:
I think sometimes that it's really MY version of Teh Gay which makes all the straight guys uncomfortable. I'm just like them, and they love hanging out with me because I know how to party and rock out regularly. Suddenly they're my friend, and they're calling me to see if I want to go see this band or hit this bar and play pool... and wait... did they just ask me on a date??? THEN they freak out and I never hear from them again.

This was funny but...

As a straight male with friends in both sexes, If a female friend (that had no interest in dating or fucking) said something like this to me I'd probably not call her as much anymore also.
posted by hundredtonmantis at 3:18 PM on May 23, 2011


Forgive me for stating something uber-obvious and adding nothing of value to the thread but it has been a loooong weekend of work and it will make me feel better.

WHY DOES ANYONE GIVE A SHIT IF YOU LIKE WANGS OR NOT FAHHKKKKKKKKKK!?!?!!?

srsly its 2011 you guys.

Feel free to delete this comment but I feel better having posted it.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 3:23 PM on May 23, 2011


If a female friend (that had no interest in dating or fucking) said something like this to me

Said something like what to you? I'm confused.
posted by hippybear at 3:25 PM on May 23, 2011


I may have misread that comment and if so nevermind.
My reading was that you said to your straight male friend something to the effect of:
"Are you asking me on a date?"

But maybe you were saying it as if they were thinking to themselves:
"Am I asking him on a date?"

Which is different.

That's all. Sorry to confuse.
posted by hundredtonmantis at 3:30 PM on May 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


hundredtonmantis: did you just ask me on a date???
posted by hippybear at 3:40 PM on May 23, 2011 [11 favorites]


I thought we were dating?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:40 PM on May 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


did you just ask me on a date???

I might have. This is really weird. I might not call you anymore.
posted by hundredtonmantis at 3:43 PM on May 23, 2011 [11 favorites]


We all date each other in Gay. Don't we?
posted by PapaLobo at 3:44 PM on May 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


Oh, shit. IRFH is watching this thread.

Sorry, hundredtomantis. I'd love to, but I really shouldn't.
posted by hippybear at 3:47 PM on May 23, 2011


I keep in touch with my masculinity every time I shower.
posted by Postroad at 3:50 PM on May 23, 2011 [3 favorites]


All joking aside, hundredtomantis: I really regard friendship as one of the sacred things in life. Even above having a sexual partner. Friendship is something which can be life-changing and deeply meaningful. I'd never say anything like that to anyone who wasn't actually asking me out on a date. I treasure people who want to share life's journey with me too much to alienate them in that way.
posted by hippybear at 3:58 PM on May 23, 2011 [4 favorites]


I have a void that needs filling with dick, but it's not in my soul and I'm not a man. Do I get to play anyway?
posted by Jacqueline at 4:00 PM on May 23, 2011 [8 favorites]


Depends. Who was Richard, and were you smart from the very beginning?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:05 PM on May 23, 2011 [2 favorites]


Jacqueline, without knowing more I can't be sure, but I think that if you have a "void" somewhere in your body, filling it with dick may be less helpful than applying some kind of absorbent bandage to staunch the wound. This sort of thing is very serious, and while you're sitting here on the internet bleeding to death and shoving body parts into yourself there are a lot of people, I'm sure, who love and care about you and want you to be well. Please, while there's time, won't you reach out to them? Or at least call 911? We're all rooting for you.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:46 PM on May 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


I know this is being meant as humor, but it could easily cross over into offense. So please, everyone approach with humor and with caution

Jacqueline: I'd say that once you've been through all the steps/phases outlined in the FPP, if you STILL feel you have this void, then you can perhaps sign up to play.
posted by hippybear at 4:51 PM on May 23, 2011


I have all sorts of holes in me. God made me with a lot of voids for no real reason. Just on my head alone: There's these two holes I keep filling with oxygen and smells. And another two that always want sound, music in particular. And that big hole, lemme tell ya. It never stops wanting beef jerky, beer and cupcakes.
posted by mccarty.tim at 4:57 PM on May 23, 2011


Apparently, the leader of Focus on the Family is saying he feels like they can't really win on gay marriage much longer because of a lack of compelling arguments and an inability to reach young people on the issue (although they are confident they can persuade young people to be anti-abortion).

Not really 100% related, just thought it was a cool issue that I should mention in the next LGBT-issues thread.
posted by mccarty.tim at 5:01 PM on May 23, 2011 [2 favorites]


I mean, cool development.
posted by mccarty.tim at 5:05 PM on May 23, 2011


filling it with dick may be less helpful than applying some kind of absorbent bandage to staunch the wound.

Dunno. Meat may be murder, but vivisex is fun.

/stolen from a graffito in the 80s
posted by Sparx at 5:08 PM on May 23, 2011


Please. It is blatantly obvious that the manliest man to ever walk this earth has to be gay. I mean, seriously, which is more manly, having sex with a cheerleader, or having sex with a lumberjack?

Being attracted to girls is girly.

(The charisma vampire line made me laugh out loud.)
posted by slimepuppy at 5:15 PM on May 23, 2011 [6 favorites]


You have to be straight to like the Foo Fighters and gay to like Rhianna? Weak.
posted by Scoo at 5:29 PM on May 23, 2011


slimepuppy:
It is blatantly obvious that the manliest man to ever walk this earth has to be gay. I mean, seriously, which is more manly, having sex with a cheerleader, or having sex with a lumberjack?

Being attracted to girls is girly.

Made my day. Girly men are attracted to... girls! I knew it.
posted by Dreidl at 5:58 PM on May 23, 2011


"My original plan was to attend one of those Christian retreats where you stay in the woods for a week and learn how to appreciate vaginas..."

Vaginas deserve appreciation. They're the best. I would love to participate in a Christian retreat focused on vaginal appreciation. All those nice Christian girls, freed from parental oversight...in a pro-vaginal setting, deep in the woods...all that talk about Le Sex...with me and my reverence for and appreciation of female sexuality...and what would, under the circumstances, pass for "bad boy" charm...the feeble Christian Rock on the portable MP3 player...the smuggled wine coolers...the innocent games and their curiosity growing...a stray hand...

...um, wait, I'm sorry, what were we talking about?

Right. Vagina appreciation. I'm down with that.

They're so awesome.

Please pardon the digression.
posted by Harvey Jerkwater at 6:04 PM on May 23, 2011 [2 favorites]


I mean, seriously, which is more manly, having sex with a cheerleader, or having sex with a lumberjack?

What if you have sex with cheerleaders but think about lumberjacks?
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 6:10 PM on May 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


What if you have sex with a cheerleader who is dressed as a lumberjack but all the while are fantasizing about Lady Ga-Ga while a Springsteen song is playing in the background?
posted by Poet_Lariat at 6:19 PM on May 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


What if you lead cheers while jacking lumber?
posted by klangklangston at 6:20 PM on May 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


I'm going to take a time out from the funnin' to say that I really enjoyed this author's writing. Thanks, Houyhnhnm, for the link.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 6:41 PM on May 23, 2011


Is he wearing Palladium shoes in that last picture? Those are sweet shoes. Can someone knowledgeable provide a ruling on where they fall on the Kinsey scale?

As one of your friendly neighborhood gays, sure thing! Those shoes are bi-curious.
posted by en forme de poire at 6:44 PM on May 23, 2011


I've been meaning to be more masculine for ages. Didn't know it was as easy as picking a 360 over a Wii. Guess I'm sorted.
For awhile I was so un-masculine I thought I was either gay or had had involuntary gender reassigment when I was a kid. Turns out it was neither.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 6:58 PM on May 23, 2011


en forme de poire, can I get an opinion on chelsea boots?
posted by adipocere at 7:01 PM on May 23, 2011


What if the lumberjack and the cheerleader are the same person?
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:13 PM on May 23, 2011


What if the lumberjack and the cheerleader are the same person?

Can you get me his phone number?
posted by hippybear at 7:26 PM on May 23, 2011 [2 favorites]


Unrelated to this directly, but two things worth a moment of your time - and this seems as good a place as any to share them.

Today the Texas Senate unanimously passed anti-bullying legislation. Yay.

And a video was making the rounds of folks in Texas responding to anti-gay bigotry that they encountered in their own small town (part of a hidden camera show). I know, I know. But watch it and tell me you didn't get a little teary-eyed.
posted by jph at 7:30 PM on May 23, 2011 [3 favorites]


But watch it and tell me you didn't get a little teary-eyed.

I was skeptical until the note.
posted by you're a kitty! at 8:00 PM on May 23, 2011


Yup. Someone else said they cried at it and I started it and was like, "Seriously Spencer! Oy. I'm glad I don't have puny human emoti... uh... I'll be right back. My allergies are suddenly, uh, acting up."
posted by jph at 8:06 PM on May 23, 2011 [2 favorites]


I tried to watch that video, but so much about it pushed my "wow, I hate this kind of television show" buttons I only made it through about 2 of the 7.5 total minutes.

I'm sure it's full of evidence of man's humanity toward man and all that, but fuck. Just that narrator's voiceover alone made me want to punch my computer.
posted by hippybear at 8:10 PM on May 23, 2011


Poet_Lariat: Then your sexuality exists on a different axis, likely involving sexual arousal from irony.
posted by Grimgrin at 8:50 PM on May 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


"Jacqueline: I'd say that once you've been through all the steps/phases outlined in the FPP, if you STILL feel you have this void, then you can perhaps sign up to play."

I really just want to eat candy while looking at porn.
posted by Jacqueline at 9:15 PM on May 23, 2011


You mean, you aren't doing that already?

You have catching up to do!
posted by hippybear at 9:18 PM on May 23, 2011 [1 favorite]


hippybear, I think it's worth giving it another shot at making it through. I wasn't streaming tears down my cheeks, but it did make me misty.

I spend so much time either being impotently enraged at the state of things or trying to avoid gay rights news that seeing some people being decent is a nice change of pace, even with the voiceover.
posted by kavasa at 11:52 PM on May 23, 2011


I do think that there is a culture esp. in North America, that sexualises and under performs touching, and I think most people, straight, gay, or everywhere in between doesn't get touched enough.

I think its really sad that we break that down into attempts to cure queer folks.
posted by PinkMoose at 12:27 AM on May 24, 2011


PinkMoose: "I do think that there is a culture esp. in North America, that sexualises and under performs touching, and I think most people, straight, gay, or everywhere in between doesn't get touched enough."

I agree. More touching!
posted by Rickalicioso at 8:12 PM on May 24, 2011 [1 favorite]


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