Skip

Not only can't you get an abortion, but no one knows how to perform one, anyway.
May 27, 2011 8:16 AM   Subscribe

On Wednesday, the House approved an amendment from Rep. Virginia Foxx (R-N.C.) that would prevent a federal healthcare education fund from being used for abortion or to provide for training for abortion procedures.

According to Medical Students for Choice, "The United States and Canada face a dangerous shortage of trained abortion providers. In 2000, 87% of the counties in the United States had no provider. The “graying” of current providers (57% of whom are over the age of 50), violence that targets physicians, and restrictive legislation threaten to drive these numbers even lower. In addition, medical schools are simply not addressing the topic; most physicians are graduating with little more than circumstantial knowledge of abortion."

According to Medical Students for Choice and the National Abortion Federation,

•2/3 of the medical students in the United States spend less than 30 minutes of class time on all aspects of abortion;
•only one out of five medical schools includes basic options counseling education in their curriculum; and
•both infertility and Viagra receive more required class time - on average - than contraception or abortion.
posted by anya32 (54 comments total) 6 users marked this as a favorite

 
Obviously bought and paid for by the back-alley abortionists' lobby.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:20 AM on May 27, 2011 [2 favorites]


Think of it as an attempt to grow jobs in the medical tourism industry.
posted by Trurl at 8:22 AM on May 27, 2011 [2 favorites]


Rep. Virginia Foxx, standing up for women!
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:23 AM on May 27, 2011 [2 favorites]




Thanks for the link, yeloson. Terrifying.
posted by anya32 at 8:27 AM on May 27, 2011 [1 favorite]


Sadly, it's going to take a number of daughters of their constituents dying in botched abortions before they realize that the demand for abortions will never go away no matter how illegal abortions become.
posted by Daddy-O at 8:28 AM on May 27, 2011 [5 favorites]


The only reason I didn't get pissed off hearing this was because I thought "Well, it's not like they were teaching it anyway, so what will that amendment actually do?"

And then I got pissed off that I'd set the bar so low.

My only hope for the immediate future is that some day the choice debate will somehow turn the corner that it seems the gay rights debate has turned in the past 15 years, and suddenly people's ignorance of science will overcome their gut reaction to this issue and the majority will start making sense again.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:30 AM on May 27, 2011 [2 favorites]


My (small, northern) med school's Med Students for Choice group sponsors a dilation and evacuation workshop every year. We used papayas, but I certainly won't feel comfortable performing the procedure on a live person until I've seen one done on a live person. Hopefully there will still be abortion clinics in Philadelphia by the time I do my OB/Gyn rotation because otherwise it will be pretty difficult to get trained.
posted by The White Hat at 8:34 AM on May 27, 2011 [7 favorites]


This makes total sense,

Because, again, the obligately pro-life movement is not about saving unborn babies. If it were, the logical thing to do would be to support extremely cheap and straightforward maternity care that would save tens of millions in the US and billions globally in the next decade, but no that is not even desired, because the movement is not about featuses. Its about shaming women for being women, and making a genuine freedom on conscience so dangerous that women would have no choice but to have a "Christian" morality imposed on them.

This move is about leveraging our country's medical infrastructure to punish their neighbours for making moral choices they don't approve of.
posted by Blasdelb at 8:35 AM on May 27, 2011 [50 favorites]


Why do Republicans hate women?
posted by COD at 8:36 AM on May 27, 2011 [8 favorites]


We used papayas

Wow! From what I saw on Med Students for Choice and the National Abortion Federation websites, it looks like they sponsor some type of training each year. Do you know if that is true, The White Hat?

Also, I know anectdotaly from family members in med school, that of the schools that do "offer" abortion, it is often an elective that you have to "opt into." I tried to find information about that online, but could not. I do know that UCSF is one of the few schools that requires (with an "opt out" I believe) training.
posted by anya32 at 8:41 AM on May 27, 2011


Obligatory link to the obligatory Onion links.

The article yeloson linked to made me think of the newly minted waiting period in Texas. Women are going to die, and their babies won't be saved either.
posted by Xoebe at 8:41 AM on May 27, 2011 [2 favorites]


Why do Republicans hate women?

Because they're Republicans.

The better question is why do women vote Republican?
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:43 AM on May 27, 2011 [17 favorites]


I hope I can make a lot of money because then I'll pool it together with all of yours and we can create offshore training and scholarships for med students to learn how to do it. Or maybe I'll create travel assistance fund for young women who want abortions so they can go to whichever country abortion is legal and safely performed.
posted by anniecat at 8:43 AM on May 27, 2011 [3 favorites]


Blasdelb More than one OB-GYN has told me exactly that. It's about punishing people for sex, not for saving babies. Sad.
posted by pointystick at 8:44 AM on May 27, 2011 [1 favorite]


You're reminding me of Jane, anniecat.
posted by anya32 at 8:45 AM on May 27, 2011 [1 favorite]


Okay, and THEN you're going to get on making some jobs for people, right, Republicans?
posted by gc at 8:47 AM on May 27, 2011 [3 favorites]


I've only just finished up my first year, so I can't be sure what's to come. My school's pretty progressive so we've also had some classtime devoted to the ethics of contraception/abortion-- probably about 2 hours of discussion that focused on ACOG's opinion on the limits of conscientious refusal in reproductive medicine (pdf). Because students at my school do their 3rd/4th year OB/GYN clerkships at a number of different clinical sites, it's hard to say exactly how the material is taught, but the APGO (Association of Professors of Gynecology and Obstetrics) objective relative to abortion is as follows:
UNIT THREE: GYNECOLOGY
SECTION A: GENERAL GYNECOLOGY
OBJECTIVE 34: ABORTION
Rationale: Induced abortion is a reproductive option considered by some patients.
Regardless of one’s personal views, the practitioner should be aware of the techniques,
management and complications of induced abortions.
The student will be able to list:
A. Surgical and non-surgical pregnancy termination methods
B. Potential complications of abortion, such as
1. Hemorrhage
2. Infection
C. Psychosocial considerations of abortion
posted by The White Hat at 8:49 AM on May 27, 2011 [1 favorite]


Stunt legislation is stunty.

(We've been getting a lot of extremist bills with no chance of passing the Senate lately, designed primarily to give candidates for office next year talking points in their political ads.)
posted by aught at 8:54 AM on May 27, 2011 [3 favorites]


I want to see a huge outcry from all physicians and all medical schools. It's asinine that medical training on specific procedures can be legislated against for political reasons.
posted by desuetude at 8:59 AM on May 27, 2011 [1 favorite]


I'd like to look them in the eye and tell them we'll still make sure women have access to abortions, and they won't be able to stop us. I'll not only fund the abortion, but I'll make sure they get a personal tour of Paris or Amsterdam and fund their stay at a luxury hotel. I'll make it the pro-lifers worst suspicion of women having abortions for fun. Pro-lifers can suck it. I'll hire a staff of folks I call Wellness Coordinators that ensure that the trips are going smoothly, the appointments are booked, and everything is paid for. Or maybe I'll just say, fuck it, and call them abortion travel coordinators or "ATCs".

I'll go buy some lottery tickets so I can get this thing off the ground. Fuck them and their Crisis Pregnancy Centers, duping women into continuing their pregnancies.
posted by anniecat at 8:59 AM on May 27, 2011 [11 favorites]


Daddy-O : ...demand for abortions will never go away no matter how illegal abortions become

You are absolutely right, but the people pushing this kind of legislation simply don't care, They'll make it illegal here and go elsewhere if they need to; for them abortion will always be an option, because it's not immoral if it is them or their daughters that need the procedure.
posted by quin at 9:01 AM on May 27, 2011 [8 favorites]


Is this when we start just posting instructions for a med-tech assisted DIY At-Home D&C?
posted by mikelieman at 9:03 AM on May 27, 2011 [2 favorites]


She is pure evil. The evilest member of congress, hands down.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:09 AM on May 27, 2011 [4 favorites]


It's a shame. Her name suggests a more sexually liberated attitude. Apologies for sexism and nominative determinism in one place.
posted by imperium at 9:11 AM on May 27, 2011


We've been getting a lot of extremist bills with no chance of passing the Senate lately, designed primarily to give candidates for office next year talking points in their political ads.

Which is ironic, because they got into office on a platform of "we're going to work on giving people jobs."

And I hope each and every one of the constituents who voted for congressmen who do stunt legislatinon like this call them on it -- "okay, yeah, you did this about abortion rights or whatever, but what about the jobs you promised LAST election?"
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:15 AM on May 27, 2011 [1 favorite]


Oh, House of Representatives, are there crazy laws you won't vote for? I'm surprised they haven't voted to amend FDA regs to require all abortion providers wear plastic fetus hats. It's a good thing we have the more responsible deliberative dysfunctional Senate to keep those wacky Representatives in line.
posted by Panjandrum at 9:25 AM on May 27, 2011


Someone with a lot of money, please do this:

Some states don't have conveniently-located clinics for women who need abortions. Some of these states also require a waiting period between seeing the doctor and getting an abortion. Some of these women have children and jobs and don't have the money to stay in a hotel, take time off work and arrange for childcare.

Someone needs to set up bed and breakfast-style places where women can stay overnight, have their children looked after and shuttle them to and from the clinic. And it needs to be done on a sliding scale.

Also, the house needs to be on a large plot of land, far from the road, preferably with a tall wall around it, because women jumping through that many hoops to get a legal medical procedure shouldn't have to put up with asshole protestors.
posted by giraffe at 9:34 AM on May 27, 2011 [7 favorites]


While "we" are slowing gaining ground on the same sex marriage issue, I think overall progressives are losing the abortion issue.
posted by edgeways at 9:34 AM on May 27, 2011 [1 favorite]


edgeways, i think your comment is supported by a lot of folks who are queer-identified and wondering why marriage equality has become a central mission of lgbt activists, when other issues, such as reproductive rights, also have such a strong relationship to queer rights.
posted by anya32 at 9:51 AM on May 27, 2011 [1 favorite]


While "we" are slowing gaining ground on the same sex marriage issue, I think overall progressives are losing the abortion issue.

At the moment, yes. But in the long run, I think not. History is against this mindset (which I will sum up thusly: "women having unapproved sex must be punished and shamed.") Feminism continues to make inroads, despite the frantic efforts of hate-filled idiots everywhere, and it is inevitable that this bastion (refusing to allow women to control their own bodies) will fall as well. Eventually.

The reason we are seeing so much of this now is not because there's been a sudden popular anti-choice surge; it's because abortion has become a useful blocking mechanism for national health care. Every anti-abortion law right now is really about trying to prevent any kind of govt healthcare from happening. Women having abortions are easy targets, because you can imply they are irresponsible sluts who deserve to suffer, because lots of people are still fucked up about sex and women in this country. But that attitude is not so prevalent with young people, so it's not going to work forever. Not to mention that enough people are so desperate for health care that going w/out it in order to prevent some woman somewhere from having abortions will only work so long.

Of course, the longer "eventually" takes, the more people suffer and the more mess that will have to be cleaned up. And it's disheartening that things have gotten as bad as they have. But then, sexism is very very old, and coerced reproduction has probably been part of it from the beginning. It's a large dragon that takes a lot of slaying.
posted by emjaybee at 10:04 AM on May 27, 2011 [1 favorite]



Why do Republicans hate women?

Because they're Republicans.

The better question is why do women vote Republican?


Because they are not the knd of women reublicans hate.
posted by notreally at 10:40 AM on May 27, 2011 [1 favorite]


ad a p
posted by notreally at 10:41 AM on May 27, 2011


add a d
posted by bz at 10:53 AM on May 27, 2011 [3 favorites]


You know for all this talk of wondering why women vote republicans, and how much republicans hate women, I think that people - including me and goddamn near all of my peers and people who are like us - need to get over that. Because here's the thing: they think that fetuses are human life, and so they think that abortion is killing a baby.

And telling them that they hate women isn't going to change that fact. They're still going to want to make it illegal for people to kill babies, because of what they think is going on.

I just think there needs to be a discourse shift. God knows that the right is good at it. Can't leftists (are there any left, doing political work? Or is it all liberals now?) put some heads together?
posted by entropone at 11:15 AM on May 27, 2011 [4 favorites]


giraffe: "
Also, the house needs to be on a large plot of land, far from the road, preferably with a tall wall around it, because women jumping through that many hoops to get a legal medical procedure shouldn't have to put up with asshole protestors.
"


I wonder if you could buy a huge plot of land, like 20-30 acres, and build a medical facility on it that also had hotel type accommodations. With an air strip/helipad. Private property, protestors can't come on the grounds legally.

Have it be more than just abortions, but also any other type of surgery that a woman might consider that has a recuperation stage; plastic surgery comes to mind. If we make it spa-like enough to attract the wealthy medical tourists, we can subsidize the abortions and the travel costs of getting women to the provider.

Now, the trick is, finding a state where abortion is still really legal. Cause, that's not most of em anymore. How's California on the abortion issue? Washington? I'm thinking we'd have to go to one of the coasts, because I can't think of anywhere in the middle of the country where you can still easily get an abortion.
posted by dejah420 at 11:27 AM on May 27, 2011


... the movement is not about featuses. Its about shaming women for being women, and making a genuine freedom on conscience so dangerous that women would have no choice but to have a "Christian" morality imposed on them.

Or, perhaps, they deeply and honestly believe that that little blood clot is a human as being deserving of human rights as any other human being.

Liberals get so worked up about human rights but when it comes to this issue they absolutely refuse to accept that some pro-lifers honestly see a blood clot as a human life and that their actions are driven by liberal fucking compassion for this weak and vulnerable human being.

The charge of "liberal" is one thing that drives my conservative, pro-life mother to insanity. When she talks about "the unborn" she speaks with a compassion that Obama would be hard-pressed to fake on his best days. She speaks of "human rights" and the obligation of society to protect the weak and defenseless, etc. In short, she sounds like a bleeding-heart-liberal.

And I call her on it. "Mom, you sound like a liberal."

And then she things, and says, "Well, I guess on this issue I am."

And then I tell her that a blood clot is not a human life. And that for most people the decision to have an abortion involves the same consideration as the decision to remove a mole and she gets angry with me.

Then I say "Well on this issue I am a small government conservative: get the government off women's backs."

And then she begins to throw things at me.

I will never understand why people hate to see how much in common they have with each other.
posted by three blind mice at 11:27 AM on May 27, 2011 [8 favorites]


Because here's the thing: they think that fetuses are human life

Not to wander off topic, but what do they think Iraqis are?
posted by George_Spiggott at 11:27 AM on May 27, 2011 [1 favorite]


George_Spiggott: "Not to wander off topic, but what do they think Iraqis are"

Brown people. Sand niggers. Desert monkeys. Infidels. Muslims. Yeah, I think that about covers everything I've heard 'round the conservative water cooler...
posted by dejah420 at 11:29 AM on May 27, 2011




My previous comment, while being flippant, does raise an interesting thing that I've not considered before now...

I spent a good 20 years or so working the front lines of abortion clinics, walking women through the anti-choicers. It got slightly better after laws that made them stay X feet back, but really...only slightly.

But thinking back, most of the clinics with protestors were in upscale, white areas...they weren't in scary neighborhoods, or areas that would have even given a whiff of "back alley".

I don't think I was ever called to go down and protect a clinic in the Black side of town, or the Hispanic quarter. I know the providers were there, but the protestors never were. Interesting. I'm gonna have to do some data digging to see if facts corroborate my memories.
posted by dejah420 at 11:35 AM on May 27, 2011 [3 favorites]


Sigh. I really thought that after Jesse Helms died, I would finally be able to stop apologizing continuously for my state. How naive of me.
posted by Rangeboy at 11:37 AM on May 27, 2011


Because here's the thing: they think that fetuses are human life, and so they think that abortion is killing a baby.


This is true, and I think too many on the pro-choice side forget that the two sides in this debate are essentially each having a different conversation.

On the other hand, it's not quite so simple as it might seem. If the only concern was saving lives, it would presumably be an absolute standard.

But many pro-lifers are willing to make exceptions for rape or incest. Why? Does the value of the fetus' life decrease if it was conceived non-consensually? Is a woman less entitled to choose whether to have a child based on her prior sex life? There's a lot going on beneath the surface of the pro-life side, much of it probably not something they've even thought about much.
posted by DiscountDeity at 11:56 AM on May 27, 2011 [4 favorites]


In short, she sounds like a bleeding-heart-liberal.

Until the baby is born and she doesn't want any social provision for care of the life she cared so much about five seconds ago, when it was in someone else's body. Until the subject of the conversation turns to the other human life at stake, whose safety and well-being is considered to be less valuable, who is defenseless against a state determined to kill her if that's what it takes to get this precious baby out.

There is one proven, tested method for reducing the number of abortions in a society: universal health care and attendant, widespread availability of birth control and sex education. This is the only thing we know of that has ever worked to reduce the number of abortions. It has the added benefit of being pro-life in fact and not just in name, because it is a social promise to care for the lives of others. No one who opposes universal health care is pro-life, and no one who would kill a woman to birth a baby is interested in human rights.
posted by Errant at 12:01 PM on May 27, 2011 [24 favorites]


Has no one told Virginia about Abortionplex?
posted by mmrtnt at 12:17 PM on May 27, 2011 [2 favorites]


An interesting counter to the repulsion tactics of the huge dead fetus posters would be a list of reasons why a woman who intentionally got pregnant would want an abortion. To be honest, I hadn't thought much about it until reading yeloson's link. My wife is pregnant now with our first child, and we were told of some potential risks, asked about family medical history, etc., but I didn't really give much thought to the "high risk births" until reading about one.

Of course, I'm pro-choice, so I don't need further swaying, but I think it could prevent some really dumb legislation like this if the abortion discussion was broadened.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:30 PM on May 27, 2011


The better question is why do women vote Republican?

Any women, minority, gay or working-class person who votes Republican is an idiot. (Yeah, I went there.) This is just another of a million reasons why.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 12:32 PM on May 27, 2011 [1 favorite]


The reason we are seeing so much of this now is not because there's been a sudden popular anti-choice surge; it's because abortion has become a useful blocking mechanism for national health care. Every anti-abortion law right now is really about trying to prevent any kind of govt healthcare from happening. Women having abortions are easy targets, because you can imply they are irresponsible sluts who deserve to suffer, because lots of people are still fucked up about sex and women in this country.

I made this exact argument to a libertarianish friend of mine when the Planned Parenthood shit hit the fan recently and was met with utter incomprehension. So frustrating.
posted by desuetude at 12:43 PM on May 27, 2011 [1 favorite]


Please consider donating to the National Network of Abortion Funds or a similar organization.

Every woman deserves access to abortion. You can help make that happen.
posted by the young rope-rider at 12:57 PM on May 27, 2011 [1 favorite]


She is pure evil. The evilest member of congress, hands down.

Oh man, I dunno, this is a tough call. I have always hated Virginia Foxx with a passion (some of you may recall that she was the charming lady who called the story of Matthew Shepard's murder a hoax). But she has some serious competition - Steve King and Jean Schmidt are two others that immediately leap to mind. Louis Gohmert, perhaps. There are some real winners out there. And right now I really hate Eric Cantor's guts.

Keep up the good work, GOP!

And The White Hat, truly, thank you for everything that you do.
posted by naoko at 1:49 PM on May 27, 2011


It really is time for women to take action. A million-woman march on the capitols.

A hundred million women refusing to have sex until their god-damned men respect them.

I'm getting awful tired of living in a world where men are continually fucking everything up. Were they in majority power, women literally could do no worse.
posted by five fresh fish at 2:00 PM on May 27, 2011 [3 favorites]


God, it took me a couple of goes to read the article yeloson linked. The sheer triple strength bullshit of ignorance, arrogance and selfishness that must combine to let someone believe that their absolute position is feasible, right and defensible in the face of reality makes the back of my skull feel like it's burning off.

Sorry. Just cannot wait for the future.
posted by lucidium at 3:05 PM on May 27, 2011



You know for all this talk of wondering why women vote republicans, and how much republicans hate women, I think that people - including me and goddamn near all of my peers and people who are like us - need to get over that. Because here's the thing: they think that fetuses are human life, and so they think that abortion is killing a baby.

So how come it is OK for them to have abortions?
posted by notreally at 4:03 PM on May 27, 2011




« Older Celebrity Lecture Series at MSU   |   You're a (sleepy) kitty! Newer »


This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments



Post