She is right here with me nowwwww
May 30, 2011 6:24 AM Subscribe
[Make sure to read the facebook comments included with the article for extra Hehs]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:28 AM on May 30, 2011
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:28 AM on May 30, 2011
So... this is an article from a localized version of the Onion?
posted by hippybear at 6:32 AM on May 30, 2011
posted by hippybear at 6:32 AM on May 30, 2011
I got that it was a drug about halfway through, but I don't get why it's funny... must be a drug thing. Darn kids...
posted by Huck500 at 6:34 AM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Huck500 at 6:34 AM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
Hippybear, that is my take but I don't know what "Molly" is supposed to mean. I'm assuming that it refers to something else.
I got that it was a drug about halfway through
Huh.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:39 AM on May 30, 2011
I got that it was a drug about halfway through
Huh.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:39 AM on May 30, 2011
"Molly" is pure MDMA, as opposed to ecstasy, which is MDMA + speed and other shit.
posted by nasreddin at 6:41 AM on May 30, 2011
posted by nasreddin at 6:41 AM on May 30, 2011
According to the comments, Molly=MDMA.
posted by muddgirl at 6:43 AM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by muddgirl at 6:43 AM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
Lucy, as in Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds, is LSD.
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:47 AM on May 30, 2011
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:47 AM on May 30, 2011
"Molly" is pure MDMA, as opposed to ecstasy, which is MDMA + speed and other shit.
No, there is no speed in ecstasy. MDMA is ecstasy is Molly is whatever else you want to name it.
posted by hippybear at 6:47 AM on May 30, 2011 [4 favorites]
No, there is no speed in ecstasy. MDMA is ecstasy is Molly is whatever else you want to name it.
posted by hippybear at 6:47 AM on May 30, 2011 [4 favorites]
I didn't suspect it was an Onion type website because whenever I see a news related item from Florida, I sort of expect this type of thing.
posted by cazoo at 6:49 AM on May 30, 2011 [19 favorites]
posted by cazoo at 6:49 AM on May 30, 2011 [19 favorites]
No, there is no speed in ecstasy.
Unless your supplier is Sammy "The Bull" Gravano, who while in the witness protection program ran a massive distribution ring, selling "ecstasy" adulterated with, and sometimes consisting entirely of, speed and heroin.
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:51 AM on May 30, 2011
Unless your supplier is Sammy "The Bull" Gravano, who while in the witness protection program ran a massive distribution ring, selling "ecstasy" adulterated with, and sometimes consisting entirely of, speed and heroin.
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:51 AM on May 30, 2011
Makes me nostalgic for my old Students Union rag magazine. Which was funnier.
posted by arcticseal at 6:52 AM on May 30, 2011
posted by arcticseal at 6:52 AM on May 30, 2011
modern ecstasy pills almost always contain substances other than MDMA
Well, that's why you use a resource like Pill Reports to make sure you're getting what you're actually wanting when you buy it. I can't help it if people are stupid enough to put things in their body which are being sold to them as being one thing but which aren't that at all... But ecstasy is MDMA. Those other pills, they're lies in pill form.
posted by hippybear at 6:54 AM on May 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
Well, that's why you use a resource like Pill Reports to make sure you're getting what you're actually wanting when you buy it. I can't help it if people are stupid enough to put things in their body which are being sold to them as being one thing but which aren't that at all... But ecstasy is MDMA. Those other pills, they're lies in pill form.
posted by hippybear at 6:54 AM on May 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
I like my ecstasy with extra Fluoride, Calcium, Vitamin D, and meth. It just makes sense.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 6:56 AM on May 30, 2011
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 6:56 AM on May 30, 2011
I am only 29 years old and I don't understand any of this.
posted by cmonkey at 6:58 AM on May 30, 2011 [10 favorites]
posted by cmonkey at 6:58 AM on May 30, 2011 [10 favorites]
Anyway... if anyone sees Lucy, give her my number. It's been far too long, and I'd love to hear from her.
posted by hippybear at 6:58 AM on May 30, 2011 [7 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 6:58 AM on May 30, 2011 [7 favorites]
"Black metal" means Norwegian black metal and other stuff. "True Norwegian black metal" means Norwegian black metal and other stuff, but not as much other stuff as in "black metal". A few months ago, "Authentic true Norwegian black metal" meant "Norwegian black metal", but now its definition has been expanded to include other stuff, so people are looking for a new expression to mean "Norwegian black metal". Candidates include "Unadulterated 100% authentic true Norwegian black metal" and "Kenny G, Minus Kenny G", as the definition of "Kenny G" has come to mean "Kenny G and Norwegian black metal".
posted by Bugbread at 7:02 AM on May 30, 2011 [29 favorites]
posted by Bugbread at 7:02 AM on May 30, 2011 [29 favorites]
Anyway... if anyone sees Lucy, give her my number. It's been far too long, and I'd love to hear from her.
Rumors are she's going to be at the summer holy-week gathering of the First Cyberspace Church of Jerry Garcia....
posted by mikelieman at 7:03 AM on May 30, 2011
Rumors are she's going to be at the summer holy-week gathering of the First Cyberspace Church of Jerry Garcia....
posted by mikelieman at 7:03 AM on May 30, 2011
Rumors are she's going to be at the summer holy-week gathering of the First Cyberspace Church of Jerry Garcia....
I wouldn't doubt that. It's a shame I'm not a member. Never got into the Dead on any meaningful level.
posted by hippybear at 7:05 AM on May 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
I wouldn't doubt that. It's a shame I'm not a member. Never got into the Dead on any meaningful level.
posted by hippybear at 7:05 AM on May 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
if anyone sees Lucy
I ran into her a while back. She was not the same girl I used to know in the 70s. No pity that. She was no good even when she was younger and prettier.
posted by three blind mice at 7:09 AM on May 30, 2011
I ran into her a while back. She was not the same girl I used to know in the 70s. No pity that. She was no good even when she was younger and prettier.
posted by three blind mice at 7:09 AM on May 30, 2011
If it turns out that Molly's off at that abortionplex, I'm going to write a very strongly worded Facebook post.
posted by PlusDistance at 7:35 AM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by PlusDistance at 7:35 AM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
Bad Onion ripoff is bad.
posted by briank at 7:36 AM on May 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by briank at 7:36 AM on May 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
I like my ecstasy with extra Fluoride, Calcium, Vitamin D, and meth. It just makes sense.
Well that's just crazy talk. Too much fluoride will stain your teeth.
posted by amyms at 7:36 AM on May 30, 2011
Well that's just crazy talk. Too much fluoride will stain your teeth.
posted by amyms at 7:36 AM on May 30, 2011
I used to love the Onion. I used to get it when it was in paper form and only sold in cool bookshops.
The bad Onion ripoff is the Onion of today.
posted by cjorgensen at 7:39 AM on May 30, 2011
The bad Onion ripoff is the Onion of today.
posted by cjorgensen at 7:39 AM on May 30, 2011
I wouldn't doubt that. It's a shame I'm not a member. Never got into the Dead on any meaningful level.
How do you pronounce your name again?
So, you've never heard of our church? I'd like to then say, "Hello! My name is Taper Lieman, and I would like to share with you the most amazing book!"
posted by mikelieman at 7:48 AM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
How do you pronounce your name again?
So, you've never heard of our church? I'd like to then say, "Hello! My name is Taper Lieman, and I would like to share with you the most amazing book!"
posted by mikelieman at 7:48 AM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
These jokes are obvious with just a hint of mean spiritedness. Which is kind what I expect from Floridian "college" students.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 8:03 AM on May 30, 2011
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 8:03 AM on May 30, 2011
Clarfication: Pressed ecstasy pills are often cut with speed or other undesirable drugs. 'Molly' is short for 'molecule' which refers to (hopefully) pure unpressed MDMA powder which is usually loosely packed into gelcaps.
posted by gnutron at 8:07 AM on May 30, 2011
posted by gnutron at 8:07 AM on May 30, 2011
Most of the jokes seem better suited to Twitter. After a certain point you're like "yeah, I get it, Facebook is creepy." That 140 character limit is a blessing for some writers.
posted by codacorolla at 8:08 AM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by codacorolla at 8:08 AM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
Bad Onion ripoff is bad.Doesn't that just make it more accurate?
I did find "Student Plans Assault on Everyone Who Liked His Ex-Girlfriend’s “Single” Status" kind of funny.
Also it seems like a lot of people's knowledge about drugs basically amounts to urban legends and lore, rather then real information (kind of like what people who never get sex ed know about sex)
posted by delmoi at 8:19 AM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
Also believed missing at EDC: "Charlie", "Tina" and "Syd".
posted by empath at 8:21 AM on May 30, 2011
posted by empath at 8:21 AM on May 30, 2011
How do you pronounce your name again?
So, you've never heard of our church?
It's pronounced like you think. And yes, I've heard of your church.
You do realize that "hippie" is not synonymous with "DeadHead" right? If you really want me to expound at length on my worldview, I'll have to pick a better place than this thread for it.
posted by hippybear at 8:21 AM on May 30, 2011
So, you've never heard of our church?
It's pronounced like you think. And yes, I've heard of your church.
You do realize that "hippie" is not synonymous with "DeadHead" right? If you really want me to expound at length on my worldview, I'll have to pick a better place than this thread for it.
posted by hippybear at 8:21 AM on May 30, 2011
No, there is no speed in ecstasy. MDMA is ecstasy is Molly is whatever else you want to name it.
You're right, ecstasy should be pure MDMA, but pills are often cut with speed, or might be something like MDA or DXM, or all kinds of random shit, like ketamine + caffeine. Never heroin, though.
posted by empath at 8:24 AM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
You're right, ecstasy should be pure MDMA, but pills are often cut with speed, or might be something like MDA or DXM, or all kinds of random shit, like ketamine + caffeine. Never heroin, though.
posted by empath at 8:24 AM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
Molly was my Grandmother, You're not gonna find her, dude, she died and everything. I'm tellin ya - I wore a jacket of my Dad's to the funeral thing and split it up the back, and Aunt Jenny got drunk and called her a bitch but she then she went and spent her part of the inheritance money on on a used Lexus, which she lent to her friend Candy like a week later and Candy's boyfriend put this huge dent in the door, which he blamed on Candy 'cause she made him so mad he didn't see the red light.
posted by longsleeves at 8:43 AM on May 30, 2011
posted by longsleeves at 8:43 AM on May 30, 2011
The actual name of that is the dancing bear, not the hippie bear. It's from Owsley's blotter prints, and is trademarked. I've never known a DeadHead who called them anything other than the dancing bears. Certainly never the hippie bears.
I'm a hippie because Chet Helms named me one when I met him at a party once and the philosophy that love and peace can change the world fits my worldview. And I'm a bear because I'm a gay man who likes the big hairy bearded guys.
You're literally the FIRST person in my over 20 years of identifying as either of those things who has argued with me about what it means.
posted by hippybear at 8:51 AM on May 30, 2011 [8 favorites]
I'm a hippie because Chet Helms named me one when I met him at a party once and the philosophy that love and peace can change the world fits my worldview. And I'm a bear because I'm a gay man who likes the big hairy bearded guys.
You're literally the FIRST person in my over 20 years of identifying as either of those things who has argued with me about what it means.
posted by hippybear at 8:51 AM on May 30, 2011 [8 favorites]
I think linguistic prescriptivism is a good thing when it comes to drugs.
posted by adipocere at 9:38 AM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by adipocere at 9:38 AM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
I used to love the Onion. I used to get it when it was in paper form and only sold in cool bookshops.
The Onion is still funny. And it's always been free, in Colorado, anyway. Seriously, you had to pay for it? Where?
posted by kozad at 9:51 AM on May 30, 2011
The Onion is still funny. And it's always been free, in Colorado, anyway. Seriously, you had to pay for it? Where?
posted by kozad at 9:51 AM on May 30, 2011
it appears google images thinks "dancing bear" is something else entirely.
you've been warned.
posted by changeling at 10:39 AM on May 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
you've been warned.
posted by changeling at 10:39 AM on May 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
it appears google images thinks "dancing bear" is something else entirely.
Good grief. This is why we can't have nice things.
posted by hippybear at 11:16 AM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
Good grief. This is why we can't have nice things.
posted by hippybear at 11:16 AM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
There's a strip club in Portland, Oregon called Dancin Bare. I don't know if you should go there or not, having never visited, but it looks pretty dodgy from the outside.
posted by cmonkey at 11:28 AM on May 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by cmonkey at 11:28 AM on May 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
You do realize that "hippie" is not synonymous with "DeadHead" right?
And I said "Jerry Garcia", not The Grateful Dead, but it's of no importance anyway, except I'd trade every Dead Show I've ever seen for one more Jerry Band show...
posted by mikelieman at 11:36 AM on May 30, 2011
And I said "Jerry Garcia", not The Grateful Dead, but it's of no importance anyway, except I'd trade every Dead Show I've ever seen for one more Jerry Band show...
posted by mikelieman at 11:36 AM on May 30, 2011
The drug operation, which police allege was financed by Gravano, sold upward of 30,000 Ecstasy pills a week. The pills, some laced with heroin and methamphetamine, looked like candy and were stamped with Nike swooshes and other symbols.
posted by StickyCarpet at 11:36 AM on May 30, 2011
posted by StickyCarpet at 11:36 AM on May 30, 2011
I will eat my hat if any of those pills have heroin in them.
posted by empath at 11:41 AM on May 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by empath at 11:41 AM on May 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
The pills ... looked like candy
I love bullshit like this. It's like the author has never looked at a large number of actual prescription drugs or anything. I mean, Motrin sure as fuck went a long way with their "little. yellow. different." campaign, and those tiny spheroids of bright yellow looked a hell of a lot like a different flavor of Lemonheads to me.
What does "looked like candy" even mean? Were they coated in chocolate and served in a Whitman's Sampler box? Were they tiny pellets like Wonka's Nerds? Did they come with a neutral flavored stick and several flavor pouches like Lik-em-aid? Maybe they were transparent gelatin objects like gummy bears.
It's just bullshit yellow journalism created to bring out the "won't someone think of the children" bad-people-will-drug-your-offspring knee-jerk and has actually no real meaning.
posted by hippybear at 11:46 AM on May 30, 2011 [3 favorites]
I love bullshit like this. It's like the author has never looked at a large number of actual prescription drugs or anything. I mean, Motrin sure as fuck went a long way with their "little. yellow. different." campaign, and those tiny spheroids of bright yellow looked a hell of a lot like a different flavor of Lemonheads to me.
What does "looked like candy" even mean? Were they coated in chocolate and served in a Whitman's Sampler box? Were they tiny pellets like Wonka's Nerds? Did they come with a neutral flavored stick and several flavor pouches like Lik-em-aid? Maybe they were transparent gelatin objects like gummy bears.
It's just bullshit yellow journalism created to bring out the "won't someone think of the children" bad-people-will-drug-your-offspring knee-jerk and has actually no real meaning.
posted by hippybear at 11:46 AM on May 30, 2011 [3 favorites]
A Public Service Announcement:
"Molly" is by no means any more inherently "pure MDMA" than a pressed pill. It's just drug marketing hype. Whenever I've seen "molly" tested it revealed itself as plain old crystal methamphetamine.
If in doubt (and you should always be in doubt) you can order MDMA testing kits from www.dancesafe.org or you can find their booths at many larger events here in the US and you can usually get whatever you have tested.
Also, if someone does manage to somehow find pure MDMA in a loose crystal or powder they absolutely should not ingest it by simply eating (or snorting) random amounts of it. The threshold for a potentially fatal overdose of pure MDMA begins at around 100 mg (if you're a smaller human) to as much as about 166-200 mg (for much larger humans). If you inhale or eat an average rail of powder (say, half a centimeter wide and 5-8 CM long) you're probably ingesting more than 100 mg. 150 mg will barely fill half to 2/3rds of a #10 gelcap.
So, if you can ingest/inhale a rail as described above and you're not dead or dying - it's probably not actually pure MDMA, either.
Here's another tip: If you can actually snort it without writhing on the floor in pain it's probably not actually pure MDMA. It's probably just an amphetamine analog.
Here's another one: Pure MDMA isn't generally snow white. It doesn't form a salt-like powder like coke or meth with small square salts, nor does it readily form larger crystals or "rocks". It usually looks like slightly pink, vaguely iridescent flakes about the size of instant potato flakes.
Lastly, I have had a carefully calculated and weighed 166 mg dose of pure MDMA in a professional, clinical research setting. The effects are unmistakable. You're not just vaguely energetic or slightly high. And it's not something you can simply dip your finger into like it's a packet of powdered candy all night long for a "bump". Real MDMA doesn't actually work like that. Real MDMA more or less stops working after 4-6 hours from the initial dose, which is why you're supposed to take a single, carefully calculated dose once at the beginning of your night and then be done with it for at least two weeks while the serotonin levels in your brain recover.
Please don't believe the hype. "Molly" isn't inherently any more "pure MDMA" than a packet of drain cleaner.
posted by loquacious at 11:50 AM on May 30, 2011 [19 favorites]
"Molly" is by no means any more inherently "pure MDMA" than a pressed pill. It's just drug marketing hype. Whenever I've seen "molly" tested it revealed itself as plain old crystal methamphetamine.
If in doubt (and you should always be in doubt) you can order MDMA testing kits from www.dancesafe.org or you can find their booths at many larger events here in the US and you can usually get whatever you have tested.
Also, if someone does manage to somehow find pure MDMA in a loose crystal or powder they absolutely should not ingest it by simply eating (or snorting) random amounts of it. The threshold for a potentially fatal overdose of pure MDMA begins at around 100 mg (if you're a smaller human) to as much as about 166-200 mg (for much larger humans). If you inhale or eat an average rail of powder (say, half a centimeter wide and 5-8 CM long) you're probably ingesting more than 100 mg. 150 mg will barely fill half to 2/3rds of a #10 gelcap.
So, if you can ingest/inhale a rail as described above and you're not dead or dying - it's probably not actually pure MDMA, either.
Here's another tip: If you can actually snort it without writhing on the floor in pain it's probably not actually pure MDMA. It's probably just an amphetamine analog.
Here's another one: Pure MDMA isn't generally snow white. It doesn't form a salt-like powder like coke or meth with small square salts, nor does it readily form larger crystals or "rocks". It usually looks like slightly pink, vaguely iridescent flakes about the size of instant potato flakes.
Lastly, I have had a carefully calculated and weighed 166 mg dose of pure MDMA in a professional, clinical research setting. The effects are unmistakable. You're not just vaguely energetic or slightly high. And it's not something you can simply dip your finger into like it's a packet of powdered candy all night long for a "bump". Real MDMA doesn't actually work like that. Real MDMA more or less stops working after 4-6 hours from the initial dose, which is why you're supposed to take a single, carefully calculated dose once at the beginning of your night and then be done with it for at least two weeks while the serotonin levels in your brain recover.
Please don't believe the hype. "Molly" isn't inherently any more "pure MDMA" than a packet of drain cleaner.
posted by loquacious at 11:50 AM on May 30, 2011 [19 favorites]
Echoing empath and hippybear, I wouldn't trust most press articles on drugs to be at all accurate. For a Masters paper I read literally thousands of newspaper articles on drugs, and the persistent misinformation and self-contradiction was astonishing.
On preview, loquacious's PSA is excellent, except I'm not sure about the overdose figures - were they a typo? 100mg seems more like a standard dose, and LD50 (in rodents) seems more like 50-100mg/kg of bodyweight.
posted by Infinite Jest at 11:56 AM on May 30, 2011
On preview, loquacious's PSA is excellent, except I'm not sure about the overdose figures - were they a typo? 100mg seems more like a standard dose, and LD50 (in rodents) seems more like 50-100mg/kg of bodyweight.
posted by Infinite Jest at 11:56 AM on May 30, 2011
For a drug to be useful for cutting MDMA, it needs to possess two properties:
A) It needs to be cheapier or easier to find than MDMA or carry a lower penalty.
B) It needs to approximate the effects of MDMA close enough and for long enough that you can unload 100 or 200 of them at a party and get out before the word gets around about bad pills.
Heroin fails on both counts.
DXM (Robotussin) works because its cheap and legally purchased and has the body feel of an MDMA come on, and it takes an hour or so before you figure out you're not going to roll. Speed works because it's cheap and approximates MDMA close enough that people might not even notice they aren't rolling. MDA and PMA are chemically close to MDMA, but are easier to synthesize, some people even prefer MDA to MDMA.
posted by empath at 11:58 AM on May 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
A) It needs to be cheapier or easier to find than MDMA or carry a lower penalty.
B) It needs to approximate the effects of MDMA close enough and for long enough that you can unload 100 or 200 of them at a party and get out before the word gets around about bad pills.
Heroin fails on both counts.
DXM (Robotussin) works because its cheap and legally purchased and has the body feel of an MDMA come on, and it takes an hour or so before you figure out you're not going to roll. Speed works because it's cheap and approximates MDMA close enough that people might not even notice they aren't rolling. MDA and PMA are chemically close to MDMA, but are easier to synthesize, some people even prefer MDA to MDMA.
posted by empath at 11:58 AM on May 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
I will eat my hat if any of those pills have heroin in them.
A wildly educated guess: The active opiate ingredient was likely DXM (dextromethorphan), which is the active ingredient in OTC cough/cold remedies like Robotussin DM. DXM is cheap and readily available from chemical supply houses - heroin isn't.
It will test positive as an opiate at the first levels of testing, especially with field testing kits. More detailed testing will reveal it to be a synthetic opiate, but LEO agencies usually don't go beyond initial testing since all they're looking for is any active ingredients at all for the purposes of prosecution.
The DXM+amphetamine (or meth) combo is really common in both pressed pills and "molly". It's been going on for 15+ years. Real MDMA is nearly impossible to find or make due to the extremely contraband and controlled nature of the precursors required.
posted by loquacious at 11:59 AM on May 30, 2011
A wildly educated guess: The active opiate ingredient was likely DXM (dextromethorphan), which is the active ingredient in OTC cough/cold remedies like Robotussin DM. DXM is cheap and readily available from chemical supply houses - heroin isn't.
It will test positive as an opiate at the first levels of testing, especially with field testing kits. More detailed testing will reveal it to be a synthetic opiate, but LEO agencies usually don't go beyond initial testing since all they're looking for is any active ingredients at all for the purposes of prosecution.
The DXM+amphetamine (or meth) combo is really common in both pressed pills and "molly". It's been going on for 15+ years. Real MDMA is nearly impossible to find or make due to the extremely contraband and controlled nature of the precursors required.
posted by loquacious at 11:59 AM on May 30, 2011
The threshold for a potentially fatal overdose of pure MDMA begins at around 100 mg
Where did you get this from. If it were true, I'd be dead about 50 times over. The LD50 of MDMA is 100mg PER KILOGRAM. You'd have to eat grams of the stuff to OD.
posted by empath at 12:00 PM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
Where did you get this from. If it were true, I'd be dead about 50 times over. The LD50 of MDMA is 100mg PER KILOGRAM. You'd have to eat grams of the stuff to OD.
posted by empath at 12:00 PM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
Real MDMA is nearly impossible to find or make due to the extremely contraband and controlled nature of the precursors required.
I've been out of the scene for a couple of years now, but as of a few years ago, it was harder to get MDMA than it had been in the 1999-2001 period (oh mitsubishi's, how i miss you), but real MDMA was still going around fairly regularly.
posted by empath at 12:04 PM on May 30, 2011
I've been out of the scene for a couple of years now, but as of a few years ago, it was harder to get MDMA than it had been in the 1999-2001 period (oh mitsubishi's, how i miss you), but real MDMA was still going around fairly regularly.
posted by empath at 12:04 PM on May 30, 2011
On preview, loquacious's PSA is excellent, except I'm not sure about the overdose figures - were they a typo?
It's not a typo. However it is on the very conservative side for safety reasons, clinical LD-50 in rodents notwithstanding.
The thing about MDMA is that an OD isn't a strictly linear response curve. Some people will "OD" on much less than other people, and this is due to things like metabolism, kidney/liver function, natural blood pressure, hydration levels, etc.
Exceeding a threshold dose of pure MDMA is foolish and can lead to heart attacks, stroke or other amphetamine-like OD symptoms. And a "threshold" dose of pure MDMA is usually more than enough fun (or therapy) for anyone. You really don't feel like you need or want more when it's the real thing. You're way too content and happy and high and in love with the entire universe. Once you're madly in love with the entire universe it's really kind of difficult (and pointless) to try to be more of that, because there's no more to be.
Plus you'll just run out of serotonin anyway, which is the part that's actually getting you high. Taking more MDMA doesn't magically give you more serotonin to play with in your head. However, eating really well and getting your exercise and beauty sleep and drinking plenty of water will give you more serotonin over a time period of several weeks.
posted by loquacious at 12:08 PM on May 30, 2011
It's not a typo. However it is on the very conservative side for safety reasons, clinical LD-50 in rodents notwithstanding.
The thing about MDMA is that an OD isn't a strictly linear response curve. Some people will "OD" on much less than other people, and this is due to things like metabolism, kidney/liver function, natural blood pressure, hydration levels, etc.
Exceeding a threshold dose of pure MDMA is foolish and can lead to heart attacks, stroke or other amphetamine-like OD symptoms. And a "threshold" dose of pure MDMA is usually more than enough fun (or therapy) for anyone. You really don't feel like you need or want more when it's the real thing. You're way too content and happy and high and in love with the entire universe. Once you're madly in love with the entire universe it's really kind of difficult (and pointless) to try to be more of that, because there's no more to be.
Plus you'll just run out of serotonin anyway, which is the part that's actually getting you high. Taking more MDMA doesn't magically give you more serotonin to play with in your head. However, eating really well and getting your exercise and beauty sleep and drinking plenty of water will give you more serotonin over a time period of several weeks.
posted by loquacious at 12:08 PM on May 30, 2011
I will eat my hat if any of those pills have heroin in them.
posted by empath
Alright, since it's turning into this kind of thread, and since you said any, not some or many, I'll be expecting that hat eating video to be posted here. Maybe you can boil it for an hour or two, I'll check back.
posted by StickyCarpet at 12:10 PM on May 30, 2011
posted by empath
Alright, since it's turning into this kind of thread, and since you said any, not some or many, I'll be expecting that hat eating video to be posted here. Maybe you can boil it for an hour or two, I'll check back.
posted by StickyCarpet at 12:10 PM on May 30, 2011
The active opiate ingredient was likely DXM (dextromethorphan)
Wow, it had never occurred to me that DXM is an opiate.
I'd never do it at a party, but I've had a hell of a good time alone on my couch with about 400mg of DXM in my system and a quality run of psychedelic rock albums lined up on the music system.
(Oh, for the days of the liquigels or the gelatin strips!)
It's certainly not a party drug, however. For starters, how the fuck do you even walk or process language?
posted by hippybear at 12:14 PM on May 30, 2011
Wow, it had never occurred to me that DXM is an opiate.
I'd never do it at a party, but I've had a hell of a good time alone on my couch with about 400mg of DXM in my system and a quality run of psychedelic rock albums lined up on the music system.
(Oh, for the days of the liquigels or the gelatin strips!)
It's certainly not a party drug, however. For starters, how the fuck do you even walk or process language?
posted by hippybear at 12:14 PM on May 30, 2011
Wow, it had never occurred to me that DXM is an opiate.
It's a dissociative, like ketamine and nitrous oxide. That article says it can have opioid-like effects.
posted by StickyCarpet at 12:21 PM on May 30, 2011
It's a dissociative, like ketamine and nitrous oxide. That article says it can have opioid-like effects.
posted by StickyCarpet at 12:21 PM on May 30, 2011
In defense of hippiebear, i never thought he was anything other than a hippie that loved big hairy gay men.
posted by djduckie at 12:24 PM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by djduckie at 12:24 PM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
loquacious and hippybear pretty much covered it already, but for additional context for those unfamiliar, "Molly" has been latched onto by naive users in the drug community as the new pure MDMA. Much like the old "E" vs. "X" debate, it's all bullshit.
Marketing pretty much sums it up. I don't understand why people can't see that it's just as easy to cut a gelcap than a pill. Hell, it's easier for those lower in the distribution network to do so.
Alright, since it's turning into this kind of thread, and since you said any, not some or many, I'll be expecting that hat eating video to be posted here. Maybe you can boil it for an hour or two, I'll check back.
Yes, it's a counterexample to his argument, but also realize that search results for "heroin" on EcstasyData.org reveals 3 search results among literally thousands of reports. The tales of heroin in ecstasy pills are just that, tales. It's much easier to cut pills with inert substances or other stimulants. It's a scare tactic from drug warriors that doesn't help at all, and actually hinders public health.
posted by formless at 12:29 PM on May 30, 2011
Marketing pretty much sums it up. I don't understand why people can't see that it's just as easy to cut a gelcap than a pill. Hell, it's easier for those lower in the distribution network to do so.
Alright, since it's turning into this kind of thread, and since you said any, not some or many, I'll be expecting that hat eating video to be posted here. Maybe you can boil it for an hour or two, I'll check back.
Yes, it's a counterexample to his argument, but also realize that search results for "heroin" on EcstasyData.org reveals 3 search results among literally thousands of reports. The tales of heroin in ecstasy pills are just that, tales. It's much easier to cut pills with inert substances or other stimulants. It's a scare tactic from drug warriors that doesn't help at all, and actually hinders public health.
posted by formless at 12:29 PM on May 30, 2011
For starters, how the fuck do you even walk or process language?
I don't know, but apparently DXM doesn't effect me the same way it does most people, because the first things I want to do are climb trees and/or read books. Seriously, I turn into some kind of fence-walking, tree-climbing robot ninja.
I once spent an entire semester of high school drinking about a 4 oz bottle of the extra strength generic DM syrup before school every day. (The stuff without the guaifenesin expectorant, just DXM at 15mg per 5ml.) Yeah, I was a cough syrup junkie. I didn't even smoke or drink back then, though.
It's the only point in my entire school history where I achieve straight As. The only thing I can figure is that it was the first time I wasn't so utterly bored that I couldn't pay attention.
posted by loquacious at 12:36 PM on May 30, 2011
I don't know, but apparently DXM doesn't effect me the same way it does most people, because the first things I want to do are climb trees and/or read books. Seriously, I turn into some kind of fence-walking, tree-climbing robot ninja.
I once spent an entire semester of high school drinking about a 4 oz bottle of the extra strength generic DM syrup before school every day. (The stuff without the guaifenesin expectorant, just DXM at 15mg per 5ml.) Yeah, I was a cough syrup junkie. I didn't even smoke or drink back then, though.
It's the only point in my entire school history where I achieve straight As. The only thing I can figure is that it was the first time I wasn't so utterly bored that I couldn't pay attention.
posted by loquacious at 12:36 PM on May 30, 2011
Yes, it's a counterexample to his argument...
posted by formless
No, it's a contractual obligation to eat his hat.
It does seem that heoin is an unlikely adulterant, although I would think you'd have to put some kind of spin on the mix to not seem like just speed.
Something related happened with LSD, after Art Linkletter informed the world that it damages DNA and causes birth defects. Girls, especially, switched to things marketed as pharmaceutical Psilocybin. But similar public-interest testing services confirmed that it was all just LSD.
posted by StickyCarpet at 12:38 PM on May 30, 2011
posted by formless
No, it's a contractual obligation to eat his hat.
It does seem that heoin is an unlikely adulterant, although I would think you'd have to put some kind of spin on the mix to not seem like just speed.
Something related happened with LSD, after Art Linkletter informed the world that it damages DNA and causes birth defects. Girls, especially, switched to things marketed as pharmaceutical Psilocybin. But similar public-interest testing services confirmed that it was all just LSD.
posted by StickyCarpet at 12:38 PM on May 30, 2011
It's a dissociative, like ketamine and nitrous oxide. That article says it can have opioid-like effects.
DXM has dissociative effects, but chemically it's a synthetic opiod compound. It was originally synthesized to find a non-addictive replacement for codeine for cough suppression.
Ironically they probably invented something with more recreational/abuse potential, albeit one that's not nearly as physically addictive.
posted by loquacious at 12:45 PM on May 30, 2011
DXM has dissociative effects, but chemically it's a synthetic opiod compound. It was originally synthesized to find a non-addictive replacement for codeine for cough suppression.
Ironically they probably invented something with more recreational/abuse potential, albeit one that's not nearly as physically addictive.
posted by loquacious at 12:45 PM on May 30, 2011
It's not a typo. However it is on the very conservative side for safety reasons, clinical LD-50 in rodents notwithstanding.
Yeah, but that's not useful. It's like saying that a potentially fatal threshold dose of acetaminophen is 2g. I mean, technically yeah there have been deaths associated with people taking a dose that size and if your liver is shot or you're an alcoholic you could have problems. But that's not useful and it is misleading because it's not what the vast majority of people mean (nor will think you mean) when you talk about a threshold fatal dose.
Lets put it this way; Forced to choose between 100mg of MDMA or 5g of acetaminophen in one dose, I know which I'd feel more comfortable taking. But we don't talk about the fatal dose of acetaminophen being that low.
posted by Justinian at 12:59 PM on May 30, 2011
Yeah, but that's not useful. It's like saying that a potentially fatal threshold dose of acetaminophen is 2g. I mean, technically yeah there have been deaths associated with people taking a dose that size and if your liver is shot or you're an alcoholic you could have problems. But that's not useful and it is misleading because it's not what the vast majority of people mean (nor will think you mean) when you talk about a threshold fatal dose.
Lets put it this way; Forced to choose between 100mg of MDMA or 5g of acetaminophen in one dose, I know which I'd feel more comfortable taking. But we don't talk about the fatal dose of acetaminophen being that low.
posted by Justinian at 12:59 PM on May 30, 2011
But we don't talk about the fatal dose of acetaminophen being that low.
But we should. Most people don't even know they can actually easily OD on Tylenol/acetaminophen, especially if they're washing it down with a drink or three. Which is a rather common practice.
The reason why we should actually be discussing it in these terms because it would identify OTC and prescription drugs as dangerous as they really are sometimes, and puts something like MDMA in perspective as far as risks (and the lack of them) are concerned.
If we (collectively, the US in particular) could have this honest conversation about drugs, then suddenly things like MDMA don't look nearly as dangerous when compared to, say, Ambien or Viagra.
posted by loquacious at 1:07 PM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
But we should. Most people don't even know they can actually easily OD on Tylenol/acetaminophen, especially if they're washing it down with a drink or three. Which is a rather common practice.
The reason why we should actually be discussing it in these terms because it would identify OTC and prescription drugs as dangerous as they really are sometimes, and puts something like MDMA in perspective as far as risks (and the lack of them) are concerned.
If we (collectively, the US in particular) could have this honest conversation about drugs, then suddenly things like MDMA don't look nearly as dangerous when compared to, say, Ambien or Viagra.
posted by loquacious at 1:07 PM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
I guess I agree with that. But until the day arrives when people do generally talk about the fatal doses of over-the-counter and legal prescription meds being that low, I still maintain it is misleading to talk about the fatal doses of something like MDMA in those terms. It's like ceding the debate over the dangers of prohibited substances to the prohibitionists.
posted by Justinian at 1:19 PM on May 30, 2011
posted by Justinian at 1:19 PM on May 30, 2011
DXM can be a great party drug. At $2 a full dose plus a carton of orange juice nothing could beat it in my student days.
I like it more than mdma for fast dancing. If you try to dance you may fall, if you let go you dance like an epileptic spider monkey.
No need to understand language, with telepathy and all.
I also get the ninja effect. I climb trees and rocks and do double flips into swimming pools. I once slept in a tree, another time in a crack on a rock face. Both times because i could not find my hotel.
It is funny loquacious that i was also doing dxm back in school in Mexico, and i was getting very good grades. What kept me groom getting bored was the music. The music of the chalk on the chalkboard, the flies buzzing, my heartbeat, all beautiful music. I did not know anyone else who knew DXM, it was my own private secret garden.
posted by Dr. Curare at 1:23 PM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
I like it more than mdma for fast dancing. If you try to dance you may fall, if you let go you dance like an epileptic spider monkey.
No need to understand language, with telepathy and all.
I also get the ninja effect. I climb trees and rocks and do double flips into swimming pools. I once slept in a tree, another time in a crack on a rock face. Both times because i could not find my hotel.
It is funny loquacious that i was also doing dxm back in school in Mexico, and i was getting very good grades. What kept me groom getting bored was the music. The music of the chalk on the chalkboard, the flies buzzing, my heartbeat, all beautiful music. I did not know anyone else who knew DXM, it was my own private secret garden.
posted by Dr. Curare at 1:23 PM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
The italics.... must be a flashback.
posted by Dr. Curare at 1:24 PM on May 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Dr. Curare at 1:24 PM on May 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
Some SSRI's (fluoxetine/Prozac, citalopram/Celexa, and less effective, buproprion/Welbutrin) or 5-HTP supplements after coming down can ameliorate the emotional and physical crash, as well as reduce recovery times so the next dose will actually work. Dosage is dependent on body weight. Also, do not take SSRIs BEFORE MDMA - the SSRIs will subdue or negate desired MDMA effects.
See the Erowid Vault for the most complete information about MDMA (or almost any psychoactive/entheogen one might encounter or wish to avoid).
posted by Dreidl at 1:33 PM on May 30, 2011
See the Erowid Vault for the most complete information about MDMA (or almost any psychoactive/entheogen one might encounter or wish to avoid).
posted by Dreidl at 1:33 PM on May 30, 2011
"Much like the old "E" vs. "X" debate, it's all bullshit."
Wait, the what?? How do you have a debate about that?
Alice: "It's called E"
Bob: "No, it's called X"
Alice: "Where are you from?"
Bob: "America. You?"
Alice: "England"
Bob: "Oh, ok then. Never mind"
Alice: "Right. Cheers."
posted by Bugbread at 2:26 PM on May 30, 2011
Wait, the what?? How do you have a debate about that?
Alice: "It's called E"
Bob: "No, it's called X"
Alice: "Where are you from?"
Bob: "America. You?"
Alice: "England"
Bob: "Oh, ok then. Never mind"
Alice: "Right. Cheers."
posted by Bugbread at 2:26 PM on May 30, 2011
Molly? 'Ees my ex. No heroine, but half-robo.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:39 PM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:39 PM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
Oh man, I have to tell this story because it makes me laugh:
So when I was about 16 I was in the "family Business" of being a stagehand and was working a 311 concert at the Austin Music Hall. Austin Music hall has a VIP upstairs that I had never gotten to go to, and my crew pass got me access up there. So I am standing around trying to act like I am too cool for the scene because I didn't really care for or about 311. So a person ( I don't remember gender) comes up to me and asks me how I am digging the music, to which I answers "it's not really my thing, I'm just hear working". Well I guess this got a whole groups' minds working because they send a representative over who says "hey, got any" and then crosses his arms to form an x. I had to stop and think about it. Then I got it and said "no". He walked away very dissapointed. The show ended, I pushed boxes, stepped in puke and got called "blinky" all night because of my blink 182 shirt.
posted by djduckie at 3:05 PM on May 30, 2011
So when I was about 16 I was in the "family Business" of being a stagehand and was working a 311 concert at the Austin Music Hall. Austin Music hall has a VIP upstairs that I had never gotten to go to, and my crew pass got me access up there. So I am standing around trying to act like I am too cool for the scene because I didn't really care for or about 311. So a person ( I don't remember gender) comes up to me and asks me how I am digging the music, to which I answers "it's not really my thing, I'm just hear working". Well I guess this got a whole groups' minds working because they send a representative over who says "hey, got any" and then crosses his arms to form an x. I had to stop and think about it. Then I got it and said "no". He walked away very dissapointed. The show ended, I pushed boxes, stepped in puke and got called "blinky" all night because of my blink 182 shirt.
posted by djduckie at 3:05 PM on May 30, 2011
I ran into her a while back. She was not the same girl I used to know in the 70s. No pity that. She was no good even when she was younger and prettier.
She saved my life once. But we can only visit rarely these days, otherwise we start going over the same old ground.
posted by krinklyfig at 3:23 PM on May 30, 2011
She saved my life once. But we can only visit rarely these days, otherwise we start going over the same old ground.
posted by krinklyfig at 3:23 PM on May 30, 2011
Alice: "It's called E"
Bob: "No, it's called X"
My first encounter with it was in 1989 in Dallas (Plano, actually, but just visiting). The only reason I mention that is because TX was once known for MDMA in the early days of the electronic scene before it became more widespread. It was a giant pressed pill, sort of like a Wonka's Wacky Wafer, tasted OK. But it was the real deal, as real as it gets. I've taken it since but rarely has it been as pure or fresh, although most of the gelcap stuff in the SF Bay Area was consistently good and unadulterated throughout the 2000s. Anyway, back in the late '80s everyone called it E, at least everyone who hung out at my friend's dorm at SMU and freaks in Albuquerque. When I moved to CA in 2000 everyone called it X. They also said "hella," which I could never get used to...
posted by krinklyfig at 3:35 PM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
Bob: "No, it's called X"
My first encounter with it was in 1989 in Dallas (Plano, actually, but just visiting). The only reason I mention that is because TX was once known for MDMA in the early days of the electronic scene before it became more widespread. It was a giant pressed pill, sort of like a Wonka's Wacky Wafer, tasted OK. But it was the real deal, as real as it gets. I've taken it since but rarely has it been as pure or fresh, although most of the gelcap stuff in the SF Bay Area was consistently good and unadulterated throughout the 2000s. Anyway, back in the late '80s everyone called it E, at least everyone who hung out at my friend's dorm at SMU and freaks in Albuquerque. When I moved to CA in 2000 everyone called it X. They also said "hella," which I could never get used to...
posted by krinklyfig at 3:35 PM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
What does "looked like candy" even mean?
Pills vs. Candy We actually have a poster version of this at work; accidental ingestion of drugs by kids is a real problem, but more so with actual pharmaceutical (as opposed to recreational) drugs. Probably because people either hide their illicit drugs better or get rid of them faster.
Also, it turns out Molly has been in Florida all along.
posted by TedW at 3:54 PM on May 30, 2011
Pills vs. Candy We actually have a poster version of this at work; accidental ingestion of drugs by kids is a real problem, but more so with actual pharmaceutical (as opposed to recreational) drugs. Probably because people either hide their illicit drugs better or get rid of them faster.
Also, it turns out Molly has been in Florida all along.
posted by TedW at 3:54 PM on May 30, 2011
Pills vs. Candy We actually have a poster version of this at work
Yeah, I know. But you make my point equally as well... that is that nearly ALL pills look like candy of various sorts. And that articles which have that phrase in them are more trying to scare parents than be useful in their description of whatever they're talking about.
posted by hippybear at 4:05 PM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I know. But you make my point equally as well... that is that nearly ALL pills look like candy of various sorts. And that articles which have that phrase in them are more trying to scare parents than be useful in their description of whatever they're talking about.
posted by hippybear at 4:05 PM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
I tried DXM once. It gave me the runs. In fact, I felt like I had shat my own bodyweight, and, you know, I felt pretty damn good about that.
posted by Sparx at 5:16 PM on May 30, 2011
posted by Sparx at 5:16 PM on May 30, 2011
I tried DXM once. It gave me the runs.
That's odd. It usually comes out the other end with incredible velocity.
posted by loquacious at 6:52 PM on May 30, 2011
That's odd. It usually comes out the other end with incredible velocity.
posted by loquacious at 6:52 PM on May 30, 2011
I guess I agree with that. But until the day arrives when people do generally talk about the fatal doses of over-the-counter and legal prescription meds being that low, I still maintain it is misleading to talk about the fatal doses of something like MDMA in those terms.
I disagree that it's misleading. The "50 to 200 mg, max" baseline has been around as a general rule of thumb since the 80s and 90s as a good, safe and sane threshold dose for most people while avoiding the toxicity of higher doses. Again, this is assuming pure MDMA, which you should never assume unless it's been thoroughly tested, which usually means about 4-5 individual testing steps - or a proper assay by a mass spectrometry analyzer run by a qualified organic chemist.
To be clear MDMA (and pretty much all of the other phenethylamines) aren't like cannabis or caffeine in that it's not safe and/or easy to self-titrate and moderate. It's pretty easy to go over the line and erroneously think that "more is more", because it's not. It's not cocaine. It's not speed. You don't really want to keep doing more of it throughout the night - which is what people are doing with "molly", treating it like it was coke or something.
MDMA and the phenethylamines (and many other drugs as well) rely heavily on your own neurotransmitters to work. You need a certain level of serotonin available in your brain for it work well and/or safely. This is why depressed or otherwise serotonin-deficient people shouldn't really take it recreationally. The crash and comedown can last for days, weeks, months (or even years). I've seen people dive into major depression and never really come out because they were already serotonin deficient before they took some. After it's like they never recovered to their normally depressed baseline.
There's actually a limit to how high/buzzed you can get even on pure MDMA. After a certain point you're just eating poison with no real benefits. And don't kid yourself - MDMA is pretty toxic stuff even when used safely. There's a price you pay in wear and tear on your body, liver and kidneys even if it's pure. This is mitigated by eating well, staying hydrated (but not over-hydrated, water can kill, too) and staying fairly cool. All of these things help the body do it's thing and recover quite nicely, just like it does from too much wine at a party, or too much caffeine.
Anyway... I'm rambling again.
I do have a chip on my shoulder about this stuff because people used to actually pay attention to what they were ingesting. People actually used to use accurate scales and testing kits. Even the pressed pills or gel caps from the 80s and very early 90s were carefully weighed and dosed. There were rules and they were there so you didn't get hurt. No one I knew would ever eat random pills they bought from some stranger at a massive arena rave or nightclub or something, at least not without testing them.
And somewhere that message of care was lost. I overhear candy raver kids today (and for the last 10-15 years) talking how many "triple-stack Nikes" they ate last night, which means... what? How many milligrams? Of what? No, seriously. He has no idea what he ate, and it probably wasn't actually pure MDMA of any quantity because if he really ate 5 or 10 pills of stuff that was pure at, say, 100mg a pill, it would probably have made him quite sick, or even dead.
...and the foolishness makes me cringe and feel guilty and not a little rage that the music/art scene I helped build was co-opted by lame commercial shit like Electric Daisy Carnival and organized drug cartels selling bogus and toxic shit to little kids.
posted by loquacious at 7:22 PM on May 30, 2011
I disagree that it's misleading. The "50 to 200 mg, max" baseline has been around as a general rule of thumb since the 80s and 90s as a good, safe and sane threshold dose for most people while avoiding the toxicity of higher doses. Again, this is assuming pure MDMA, which you should never assume unless it's been thoroughly tested, which usually means about 4-5 individual testing steps - or a proper assay by a mass spectrometry analyzer run by a qualified organic chemist.
To be clear MDMA (and pretty much all of the other phenethylamines) aren't like cannabis or caffeine in that it's not safe and/or easy to self-titrate and moderate. It's pretty easy to go over the line and erroneously think that "more is more", because it's not. It's not cocaine. It's not speed. You don't really want to keep doing more of it throughout the night - which is what people are doing with "molly", treating it like it was coke or something.
MDMA and the phenethylamines (and many other drugs as well) rely heavily on your own neurotransmitters to work. You need a certain level of serotonin available in your brain for it work well and/or safely. This is why depressed or otherwise serotonin-deficient people shouldn't really take it recreationally. The crash and comedown can last for days, weeks, months (or even years). I've seen people dive into major depression and never really come out because they were already serotonin deficient before they took some. After it's like they never recovered to their normally depressed baseline.
There's actually a limit to how high/buzzed you can get even on pure MDMA. After a certain point you're just eating poison with no real benefits. And don't kid yourself - MDMA is pretty toxic stuff even when used safely. There's a price you pay in wear and tear on your body, liver and kidneys even if it's pure. This is mitigated by eating well, staying hydrated (but not over-hydrated, water can kill, too) and staying fairly cool. All of these things help the body do it's thing and recover quite nicely, just like it does from too much wine at a party, or too much caffeine.
Anyway... I'm rambling again.
I do have a chip on my shoulder about this stuff because people used to actually pay attention to what they were ingesting. People actually used to use accurate scales and testing kits. Even the pressed pills or gel caps from the 80s and very early 90s were carefully weighed and dosed. There were rules and they were there so you didn't get hurt. No one I knew would ever eat random pills they bought from some stranger at a massive arena rave or nightclub or something, at least not without testing them.
And somewhere that message of care was lost. I overhear candy raver kids today (and for the last 10-15 years) talking how many "triple-stack Nikes" they ate last night, which means... what? How many milligrams? Of what? No, seriously. He has no idea what he ate, and it probably wasn't actually pure MDMA of any quantity because if he really ate 5 or 10 pills of stuff that was pure at, say, 100mg a pill, it would probably have made him quite sick, or even dead.
...and the foolishness makes me cringe and feel guilty and not a little rage that the music/art scene I helped build was co-opted by lame commercial shit like Electric Daisy Carnival and organized drug cartels selling bogus and toxic shit to little kids.
posted by loquacious at 7:22 PM on May 30, 2011
Yes yes, it was always better back in "our day." We were much more responsible and intelligent than "kids these days."
posted by muddgirl at 8:31 PM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by muddgirl at 8:31 PM on May 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yes yes, it was always better back in "our day."
When mighty Stanley Owsley walked the land, with a shiny Pyrex retort in his hand.
posted by StickyCarpet at 4:54 AM on May 31, 2011
When mighty Stanley Owsley walked the land, with a shiny Pyrex retort in his hand.
posted by StickyCarpet at 4:54 AM on May 31, 2011
When mighty Stanley Owsley walked the land, with a shiny Pyrex retort in his hand.
Owsley Stanley
posted by TedW at 4:58 AM on May 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
Owsley Stanley
posted by TedW at 4:58 AM on May 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
Owsley Stanley
posted by TedW
OK, for that, I won't eat my hat, but here... I'll swallow a shirt button.
posted by StickyCarpet at 5:03 AM on May 31, 2011
posted by TedW
OK, for that, I won't eat my hat, but here... I'll swallow a shirt button.
posted by StickyCarpet at 5:03 AM on May 31, 2011
I'll swallow a shirt button.
Nah, for that it needs to be something really off-the-wall. A windowpane, perhaps?
posted by TedW at 5:07 AM on May 31, 2011
Nah, for that it needs to be something really off-the-wall. A windowpane, perhaps?
posted by TedW at 5:07 AM on May 31, 2011
I disagree that it's misleading. The "50 to 200 mg, max" baseline has been around as a general rule of thumb since the 80s and 90s as a good, safe and sane threshold dose for most people while avoiding the toxicity of higher doses.
Just as a datapoint, when my friends and I were buying the mitsubishi's in 1999 (which were famously pure), it wasn't at all unusual for us to go through 3-4 a night, which is well north of your number. Some of my friends would even take more than that.
posted by empath at 6:45 AM on May 31, 2011
Just as a datapoint, when my friends and I were buying the mitsubishi's in 1999 (which were famously pure), it wasn't at all unusual for us to go through 3-4 a night, which is well north of your number. Some of my friends would even take more than that.
posted by empath at 6:45 AM on May 31, 2011
People actually used to use accurate scales and testing kits. Even the pressed pills or gel caps from the 80s and very early 90s were carefully weighed and dosed. There were rules and they were there so you didn't get hurt. No one I knew would ever eat random pills they bought from some stranger at a massive arena rave or nightclub or something, at least not without testing them.
You obviously went to different parties than I did, because in the late 90s at least, all you had to do was ask around a bit to find decent pills at a party of any size and 95% of them were good. I was friends with people who sold, and they always tested their stuff and it came back clean -- I was there when they tested, even, so I know what 'real' mdma feels like, and I knew when I got junk. Up until like 2004 or so, it was incredibly rare to get fake pills at parties. Mostly because you could always find the same people week after week, so people got a reputation pretty quickly.
And carefully weighed and measured doses? Jesus, I'm honestly surprised some of my friends aren't vegetables with the amounts and combinations of random shit they would do. And by the time I met them, some of them had been doing that since the early days of Buzz in DC and NASA in New York -- 3 or 4 years. And I'm not talking about random kids, I'm talking about promoters and DJs that you would have heard of if you were at all in the east coast scene.
I don't believe there was ever a golden age.
posted by empath at 6:52 AM on May 31, 2011
You obviously went to different parties than I did, because in the late 90s at least, all you had to do was ask around a bit to find decent pills at a party of any size and 95% of them were good. I was friends with people who sold, and they always tested their stuff and it came back clean -- I was there when they tested, even, so I know what 'real' mdma feels like, and I knew when I got junk. Up until like 2004 or so, it was incredibly rare to get fake pills at parties. Mostly because you could always find the same people week after week, so people got a reputation pretty quickly.
And carefully weighed and measured doses? Jesus, I'm honestly surprised some of my friends aren't vegetables with the amounts and combinations of random shit they would do. And by the time I met them, some of them had been doing that since the early days of Buzz in DC and NASA in New York -- 3 or 4 years. And I'm not talking about random kids, I'm talking about promoters and DJs that you would have heard of if you were at all in the east coast scene.
I don't believe there was ever a golden age.
posted by empath at 6:52 AM on May 31, 2011
For the most part, just consider me +1 on empath. I've done a lot of research on MDMA, and my findings and experiences don't entirely jive with loq's.
posted by flaterik at 5:48 PM on May 31, 2011
posted by flaterik at 5:48 PM on May 31, 2011
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posted by BeerFilter at 6:26 AM on May 30, 2011