"Knock, knock." "Who's there?" "Police." "Police who?" "Police stop telling these awful knock, knock jokes."
June 8, 2011 1:57 PM Subscribe
On Tuesday morning, Stockton, California resident Kenneth Wright's door was forcibly removed from his home at 6:00 AM by a SWAT Team serving a federal warrant for his estranged ex-wife. "According to Wright, officers also woke his three young children, ages 3, 7, and 11, and put them in a Stockton police patrol car with him." Wright has no prior criminal record and claims he had no reason to believe he was the target of any criminal investigation. Initially, local news reports indicated that Wright's ex-wife had been targeted in the raid for being in default on her college loans, but the Department of Education has denied this claim, acknowledging that it requested the search, but maintaining that the request was made as part of an ongoing criminal investigation into possible college loan fraud and not simply due to a college loan default.
This news seems especially timely in light of ongoing public debate over the Supreme Court's recent ruling in Kentucky v. King and public outcry over the case of Jose Guerena, a two-tour US Marine veteran killed in his home during a questionable SWAT raid.
This news seems especially timely in light of ongoing public debate over the Supreme Court's recent ruling in Kentucky v. King and public outcry over the case of Jose Guerena, a two-tour US Marine veteran killed in his home during a questionable SWAT raid.
This post was deleted for the following reason: This is still a local newswire blurb on a really hot topic with a couple of open related threads, probably this should just go in one of those if it isn't there already. -- cortex
Collections industry trade journal, Inside ARM, has something to say about this maybe story. Possibly.
posted by [citation needed] at 2:00 PM on June 8, 2011
posted by [citation needed] at 2:00 PM on June 8, 2011
Why is it that a SWAT outfit will readily respond to the search of a citizen's home, but when a bank is taken over by the gummint, a bank with management, employees, customers and literally tons of documentation, instruments and currency, they just send a nice, polite team from the FDIC?
posted by jsavimbi at 2:01 PM on June 8, 2011
posted by jsavimbi at 2:01 PM on June 8, 2011
"All I want is an apology for me and my kids and for them to get me a new door," Wright said.
Wow, I think that guy is a lot more forgiving than I'd be.
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 2:02 PM on June 8, 2011 [6 favorites]
Wow, I think that guy is a lot more forgiving than I'd be.
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 2:02 PM on June 8, 2011 [6 favorites]
They call out SWAT for loan fraud, but in a lot of jurisdictions CPS's lucky if they get a couple of uniforms to go along when they check out report of kids living in a meth lab.
posted by lodurr at 2:02 PM on June 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by lodurr at 2:02 PM on June 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
So now it is actual local TV news stories getting posted here.
posted by smackfu at 2:03 PM on June 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by smackfu at 2:03 PM on June 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
Good to see more swat team involvement in white collar crime.
posted by Artw at 2:03 PM on June 8, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 2:03 PM on June 8, 2011 [3 favorites]
Fair enough. It was "federal agents with the Office of the Inspector General (OIG), not local S.W.A.T." But I'm sure the distinction between a team of Federal Agents and a SWAT team turns out to be pretty academic when you're on the receiving end of such attentions.
posted by saulgoodman at 2:04 PM on June 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by saulgoodman at 2:04 PM on June 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
Well, maybe WIC will finally get their helicopter.
posted by boo_radley at 2:05 PM on June 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by boo_radley at 2:05 PM on June 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
Parking violations should be dealt with by big stompy Transformer robots.
posted by Artw at 2:06 PM on June 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 2:06 PM on June 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
So now it is actual local TV news stories getting posted here.
This story's also tearing it up on Huffington and just about every right-wing online outlet out there. Scoff if you like, but it's seriously fucked up that a person can have their home searched and their entire family forcibly removed from the home when they aren't even suspected of a crime.
posted by saulgoodman at 2:06 PM on June 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
This story's also tearing it up on Huffington and just about every right-wing online outlet out there. Scoff if you like, but it's seriously fucked up that a person can have their home searched and their entire family forcibly removed from the home when they aren't even suspected of a crime.
posted by saulgoodman at 2:06 PM on June 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
Wait. The Department of Education has an armed police force?
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 2:06 PM on June 8, 2011
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 2:06 PM on June 8, 2011
[insert student-loan joke]
So now it is actual local TV news stories getting posted here.
Yeah, really not much here. Should have been added to the open thread referenced.
posted by mrgrimm at 2:07 PM on June 8, 2011
So now it is actual local TV news stories getting posted here.
Yeah, really not much here. Should have been added to the open thread referenced.
posted by mrgrimm at 2:07 PM on June 8, 2011
Hold it. It's the OIG. So, let me restate...
Wait. The The Department of Health and Human Services has an armed police force?
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 2:08 PM on June 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
Wait. The The Department of Health and Human Services has an armed police force?
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 2:08 PM on June 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
Probably a naive question, but isn't the amount of police power assigned to a particular bust supposed to be at least vaguely proportional to the threat involved?
Unless - as happens sometimes - these murderous clowns just totally got the wrong house?
posted by Trurl at 2:09 PM on June 8, 2011
Unless - as happens sometimes - these murderous clowns just totally got the wrong house?
posted by Trurl at 2:09 PM on June 8, 2011
I really hope I didn't agree to this when I filled out my loan forms years ago.
posted by drezdn at 2:10 PM on June 8, 2011
posted by drezdn at 2:10 PM on June 8, 2011
I really don't understand the use of SWAT (again) here. At some point we have to stop conceding that it is acceptable for teams to do a breach entry in non-violent situations.
Did they have reason to believe that he was armed? Did they think there was hostages? No? Then why the fuck are they kicking in the door and not knocking first?
And is this actual SWAT (with all the training and discipline that is supposed to suggest) or just regular cops who have been dressed up in flashy clothes by the War on Terror funding who have seen too many movies?
I swear, the fastest way to screw up a good police officer is to give him some BDUs and a tactical holster.
posted by quin at 2:10 PM on June 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
Did they have reason to believe that he was armed? Did they think there was hostages? No? Then why the fuck are they kicking in the door and not knocking first?
And is this actual SWAT (with all the training and discipline that is supposed to suggest) or just regular cops who have been dressed up in flashy clothes by the War on Terror funding who have seen too many movies?
I swear, the fastest way to screw up a good police officer is to give him some BDUs and a tactical holster.
posted by quin at 2:10 PM on June 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
But I'm sure the distinction between a team of Federal Agents and a SWAT team turns out to be pretty academic when you're on the receiving end of such attentions.
Maybe not to the individual, but it makes a big difference when the "SWAT Team!" is trotted out as evidence of excess. I'm not saying it's a pleasant experience, but a SWAT team involves special weapons and tactics (hence its name). Presumably this raid included neither.
I also note that your post refers to her as "his estranged ex-wife." However, nothing in the story indicates that she is his ex-wife. This, again, is not a minor point, since it's one thing to raid a home of a divorced husband (which suggests a failure to do due diligence prior to the raid), and another to raid the home of a person the authorities have every reason to believe is still married to the subject of the warrant.
The long and short of it is that there is little information in this story to make a real determination about the propriety of law enforcement's actions.
posted by pardonyou? at 2:11 PM on June 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
Maybe not to the individual, but it makes a big difference when the "SWAT Team!" is trotted out as evidence of excess. I'm not saying it's a pleasant experience, but a SWAT team involves special weapons and tactics (hence its name). Presumably this raid included neither.
I also note that your post refers to her as "his estranged ex-wife." However, nothing in the story indicates that she is his ex-wife. This, again, is not a minor point, since it's one thing to raid a home of a divorced husband (which suggests a failure to do due diligence prior to the raid), and another to raid the home of a person the authorities have every reason to believe is still married to the subject of the warrant.
The long and short of it is that there is little information in this story to make a real determination about the propriety of law enforcement's actions.
posted by pardonyou? at 2:11 PM on June 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
I really don't understand the use of SWAT (again) here.
There was speculation in the comments of one of the linked pages above - unclear how informed - that the target of the investigation might have been something more serious than a defaulted loan, perhaps something like the wife being involved in a loan fraud scheme. For now the story is relatively content-free and outrage-intensive, just as the mass media and blogs like it.
posted by aught at 2:15 PM on June 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
There was speculation in the comments of one of the linked pages above - unclear how informed - that the target of the investigation might have been something more serious than a defaulted loan, perhaps something like the wife being involved in a loan fraud scheme. For now the story is relatively content-free and outrage-intensive, just as the mass media and blogs like it.
posted by aught at 2:15 PM on June 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
I guess I can make one determination: law enforcement does not know how to knock.
posted by adipocere at 2:15 PM on June 8, 2011
posted by adipocere at 2:15 PM on June 8, 2011
Probably a naive question, but isn't the amount of police power assigned to a particular bust supposed to be at least vaguely proportional to the threat involved?
Yes. Children were present, and as we all know, children are the future. They're younger, they'll have the edge up on you in education, technology, and the dwindling resources. You're fighting a force that hasn't yet developed morals or restraint, and has mastered decentralized communication processes through Twitter and Facebook.
When faced with such an amorphous, mob mentality threat, what would you send? You send the best, with the best training and most discipline and fearlessness. People who won't give up, who won't back down. And guns, lots of guns.
If you want to fight the future, you can't go in half assed.
(This was parody. Please do not use this comment as a reference for future US police policy. Thank you.)
posted by yeloson at 2:15 PM on June 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
Yes. Children were present, and as we all know, children are the future. They're younger, they'll have the edge up on you in education, technology, and the dwindling resources. You're fighting a force that hasn't yet developed morals or restraint, and has mastered decentralized communication processes through Twitter and Facebook.
When faced with such an amorphous, mob mentality threat, what would you send? You send the best, with the best training and most discipline and fearlessness. People who won't give up, who won't back down. And guns, lots of guns.
If you want to fight the future, you can't go in half assed.
(This was parody. Please do not use this comment as a reference for future US police policy. Thank you.)
posted by yeloson at 2:15 PM on June 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
Apparently it was the U.S. Department of Education, Office of Inspector General who initiated the raid.
This is highly unusual. Generally, OIGs will rely on local officers to make an arrest like this. Although their agents are fully empowered GS-1811 federal agents, they almost never should be making such an entry themselves, as they are almost never called upon to make a forcible entry in to a home.
Usually the upper management of the OIGs are staffed with cowboy "double dipper" Secret Service agents who have little respect for the civil rights of anyone. These agents first receive a pension under the Secret Service, who, by a quirk of federal law, have their pensions under the District of Columbia Code, not the U.S. FERS or CSRS retirement systems. Since the Secret Service is a relatively small agency, these guys will retire once they have reached the end of the promotion ladder and then take a position in other federal agencies, where they will get a second pension under FERS.
Generally these guys refuse to play by the rules. It appears from the article that they didn't do their research and really messed up. This is highly unusual. Looks like a botched job from the start. This is why the OIG should have gotten local cooperation. The local police could have probably figured out that the woman did not live there through some simple investigation.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:18 PM on June 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
This is highly unusual. Generally, OIGs will rely on local officers to make an arrest like this. Although their agents are fully empowered GS-1811 federal agents, they almost never should be making such an entry themselves, as they are almost never called upon to make a forcible entry in to a home.
Usually the upper management of the OIGs are staffed with cowboy "double dipper" Secret Service agents who have little respect for the civil rights of anyone. These agents first receive a pension under the Secret Service, who, by a quirk of federal law, have their pensions under the District of Columbia Code, not the U.S. FERS or CSRS retirement systems. Since the Secret Service is a relatively small agency, these guys will retire once they have reached the end of the promotion ladder and then take a position in other federal agencies, where they will get a second pension under FERS.
Generally these guys refuse to play by the rules. It appears from the article that they didn't do their research and really messed up. This is highly unusual. Looks like a botched job from the start. This is why the OIG should have gotten local cooperation. The local police could have probably figured out that the woman did not live there through some simple investigation.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:18 PM on June 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
perhaps something like the wife being involved in a loan fraud scheme.
I'm still failing to see why this would warrant any kind of breach entry. That level of overwhelming force is designed for high threat targets who need to be subdued before they have an opportunity to do something drastic to the police or some kind of hostage. I don't see anything like that here.
What it says to me is that they are using this to make some kind of point, though other than just generally intimidating the general public, I can't see what that point is.
posted by quin at 2:21 PM on June 8, 2011
I'm still failing to see why this would warrant any kind of breach entry. That level of overwhelming force is designed for high threat targets who need to be subdued before they have an opportunity to do something drastic to the police or some kind of hostage. I don't see anything like that here.
What it says to me is that they are using this to make some kind of point, though other than just generally intimidating the general public, I can't see what that point is.
posted by quin at 2:21 PM on June 8, 2011
Apparently it was the U.S. Department of Education, Office of Inspector General who initiated the raid.
Third time.
Wait. The Department of Education has an Office of Inspector General that has an armed police force?
What the fuck could these people possibly do all day? How many hall monitors does the country need?
You wonder why Republicans are so eager to shrink the Federal government. It's because of shit like this that they get all riled up and eventually lose the plot.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 2:23 PM on June 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
Third time.
Wait. The Department of Education has an Office of Inspector General that has an armed police force?
What the fuck could these people possibly do all day? How many hall monitors does the country need?
You wonder why Republicans are so eager to shrink the Federal government. It's because of shit like this that they get all riled up and eventually lose the plot.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 2:23 PM on June 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
Maybe not to the individual, but it makes a big difference when the "SWAT Team!" is trotted out as evidence of excess. I'm not saying it's a pleasant experience, but a SWAT team involves special weapons and tactics (hence its name). Presumably this raid included neither.
An OIG team is not a SWAT team. It appears that they made forcible entry into the home. It does not make much sense, because unless they have information indicating there was violent crime involved, such a seizure would be stupid. And if they thought the person was armed, the local jurisdiction should have been involved.
Note that the Inspector General Act of 1978 is what provides authorization for the law enforcement powers of the IGs.
Smells like a real fuckup to me.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:23 PM on June 8, 2011
An OIG team is not a SWAT team. It appears that they made forcible entry into the home. It does not make much sense, because unless they have information indicating there was violent crime involved, such a seizure would be stupid. And if they thought the person was armed, the local jurisdiction should have been involved.
Note that the Inspector General Act of 1978 is what provides authorization for the law enforcement powers of the IGs.
Smells like a real fuckup to me.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:23 PM on June 8, 2011
The long and short of it is that there is little information in this story to make a real determination about the propriety of law enforcement's actions.
That might be true, and thanks for the clarification about the wife (an honest mistake; you're right that it's not clear if she's an ex- or not), but this story's already got legs of its own--especially in the right-wing echo-chamber online.
Police procedural issues aside, I can also see why many would still think there are some obvious big picture personal rights issues raised by this story, even without all the details being out there just yet. Why break the guy's door down at 6:00 AM? Why all the bluster and theatrics? Since this was apparently not a violent criminal investigation, what's the point of taking such a potentially confrontational approach to serving the warrant?
posted by saulgoodman at 2:23 PM on June 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
That might be true, and thanks for the clarification about the wife (an honest mistake; you're right that it's not clear if she's an ex- or not), but this story's already got legs of its own--especially in the right-wing echo-chamber online.
Police procedural issues aside, I can also see why many would still think there are some obvious big picture personal rights issues raised by this story, even without all the details being out there just yet. Why break the guy's door down at 6:00 AM? Why all the bluster and theatrics? Since this was apparently not a violent criminal investigation, what's the point of taking such a potentially confrontational approach to serving the warrant?
posted by saulgoodman at 2:23 PM on June 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
aught: "perhaps something like the wife being involved in a loan fraud scheme"
How do we get from loan fraud scheme to no-knocking?
posted by boo_radley at 2:23 PM on June 8, 2011
How do we get from loan fraud scheme to no-knocking?
posted by boo_radley at 2:23 PM on June 8, 2011
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