September 18, 2001

7:11 PM

Gov. Pataki offers free collegeto family members of the WTC attack. "Education, tuition, room, board, fees, whatever the costs are." Altruism or fiscal irresponsibility?
posted by moses (18 comments total)

Sounds like a great idea to me. But why does it take an attack by terrorists for our government to offer what many governments in Europe already offer?
posted by Hammerikaner at 7:21 PM on September 18, 2001

"I would hear again and again, 'How am I going to pay for my child's education? How am I going to pay for college?' Now they don't have to worry about that."

Wow. A very impressive step by Pataki; I applaud him. He and Guiliani are really tackling this crisis head on.

I'm sure that if this gets passed, it'll be a great burder off the shoulders of thousands of families. Seeing as the government's "financial aid" process combined with high tuitions made it impossible for me to get into the schools I wanted to attend, even with high grades, I can understand the greif that these afterthoughts are going to be putting families through.

Bravo.
posted by tomorama at 7:28 PM on September 18, 2001

Altruism or fiscal irresponsibility?

If they manage to graduate the increase in tax revenue due to their increased income potential should far outweigh any upfront costs. Pataki is smart, it is a small investment that will bring in big returns in public opinion and probably bring in more money than it expends in the long run.
posted by RevGreg at 7:40 PM on September 18, 2001

But why does it take an attack by terrorists for our government to offer what many governments in Europe already offer?


Interesting question. After WWII when Europe was literally in crumbles and ash the Europeans began to rebuild their cities and shortly the socialization of medicine and higher education followed.

As an arm-chair psychologist, I think that maybe it does take a severe shock to the system, both nervous and political to get something altruistic done. Obviously there are exceptions, but I think the elite class's self-pampering knocks them a few notches out of touch with reality. Or at least reality as most Americans know it.

When the bombs hit home, like the military's prized mansion the Pentagon and commerce's prized phallic symbols you just can't go back to being the same person you were before. The attacks change people at least temporarily towards altruism and those changes may stick around long enough to bleed into other areas of government than just emergency support.
posted by skallas at 8:24 PM on September 18, 2001

Not to seem harsh but a lot of the people in the WTC were not the type that wouldn't be able to afford college. I know there were many exceptions but the majority were stock brokers and investment analysts. However, if this is one less things these families have to worry about then I appluad him.
posted by geoff. at 9:16 PM on September 18, 2001

Of course, if the stockbroker parent is no longer contributing to the family's income...
posted by smackfu at 9:18 PM on September 18, 2001

The reality, of course, is that in the United States, some sort of free post-secondary education is available free or nearly-free to just about everyone, and of course anyone who actually bothered to be a good student in high school will get free offers to tons of colleges. I could have attended my local state university on a 100% scholarship if I'd wanted to, as could anyone else in my graduating class who acheived a certain grade-point average. (I chose to go to NYU instead, since it's better. Didn't get a 100% scholarship there, but close.)
posted by aaron at 9:57 PM on September 18, 2001

That's ridiculous, even if everyone got a 4.0 in HS and the school never bothered to check out why or implement a curve grading system the resources of the university and state are limited to only so many scholarships. Its not like they have billions laying around hoping more kids do their homework.

Athletes and good students get what they get because everyone else is footing the bill.
posted by skallas at 10:13 PM on September 18, 2001

The reality, of course, is that in the United States, some sort of free post-secondary education is available free or nearly-free to just about everyone

As long as you are over 6 feet tall, weigh at least 200 pounds and can run a 4.3 40.
posted by szg8 at 10:48 PM on September 18, 2001

Pataki is obviously just encouraging people to become victims by offering these rewards. Now parents will send their children into sky-scrapers just to get the financial reward.
posted by chaz at 11:03 PM on September 18, 2001

Woah. Free tuition even to Cornell, Columbia or NYU ... ?

SZg8 - not true. California offers free tuition to state universities to any resident of at least a year. Massachusetts has a similar program in place, though I think it's for children of Massachusetts educators. Pretty sure there's something like this in almost every state already.

Chaz - I'm totally dumbstruck by your last remark.
posted by mirla at 12:00 AM on September 19, 2001

Now parents will send their children into sky-scrapers just to get the financial reward.

I think you mean husbands and wives.
posted by redleaf at 12:08 AM on September 19, 2001

Yes, there are scholarship programs in place for most students--with the notable exception of those who are US residents but not citizens. I was entirely disqualified from getting financial aid from most colleges because I wasn't an American citizen. Since there were so many foreign companies in the WTC, I wouldn't be surprised if some of those who lost a parent were children from another country, and if they'll be able to go to school for free, that could represent an opportunity for them that they otherwise wouldn't have had a chance of getting.
posted by Jeanne at 5:08 AM on September 19, 2001

The reality, of course, is that in the United States, some sort of free post-secondary education is available free or nearly-free to just about everyone, and of course anyone who actually bothered to be a good student in high school will get free offers to tons of colleges.

Um ... what planet are you living on? I was a straight-A student in high school, editor of my year book and literary magazine, had community service and tons of extra-curricular activities on my college applications (and a smattering of sports), and all of the colleges that I managed to get into gave me next to crap for financial aid. (And most were New York schools.) Sure, I scored some scholarships and grants, but I still graduated with nearly 20 grand in student loan bills. And that's with my parents putting a second mortgage on the house to help put me through school. (Thanks, mom and dad.)

The fact of the matter is that most decent colleges today cost at least 20 grand a year. Some are as high as 26. And most kids who manage to get into decent colleges go to decent high schools. And -- flame me all you want, but most decent high schools are attended by kids from middle and upper-middle class families. And the average middle-class family gets shafted on the average secondary education financial aid package, because the gross family income is too high.

Regardless of your opinion concerning Pataki's offer, don't make your point by laying down blatant untruths.
posted by damn yankee at 5:23 AM on September 19, 2001

Oh, and while I'm proving my point:

My husband, who went to high school in a different state than I, was senior class president, a nationally-ranked member of his track team, and also an honors student. He was accepted at a prestigious New York school and offered a track scholarship, but his working-class family still didn't have enough money to send him to the school. He went to a state school instead for two and a half years, and when he had maxed out his credit cards with tuition payments he did the only thing he could: he enlisted in the Navy. He was finally able to finish his undergrad degree this summer, eight years after graduating from high school. And my husband is more intelligent than most professors I had in my four years of college.

And yes, he's still stuck in the military. Maybe for a lot longer than we bargained.
posted by damn yankee at 6:02 AM on September 19, 2001

Sounds like a great idea to me. No, college is not free or easy to pay for in America. Trust me on that one...
posted by aaronshaf at 6:09 AM on September 19, 2001

I think it would have been better to just announce more budgeted student aid money (within the SUNY system) in general. Are the kids whose parents were killed in the WTC explosion more deserving of aid than the kid whose parents were killed in a car wreck, or gunned down in a 7-11? Should we then just pass a bill saying all children of crime victims go to college for free? And if victims go for free, then what about kids who grew up in abusive households with battered mothers and no money? I don't know. It seems kind of too nice...

For those left seriously broke by the attack (geoff, while most of the traders probably had plenty of money and life insurance, think of all the waitresses, retail clerks, maintenance people, receptionists, etc. that didn't), the combination of grants and loans offered to NY residents should get them through a state university. Dump more money into that fund to ensure it will handle the increased load (or better yet, make education free in the state system), but I don't know that it's NY's responsibility to pay for private college educations kit and kaboodle. Lots of students get accepted to schools just because the colleges need a hedge in making sure they fill enrollment. So for the next twenty years will the state be paying for people who would have been happy at Geneseo last week to go now to Cornell, University of Rochester, Columbia, NYU, Vassar, etc., since the state is paying for it?

I think it's a nice gesture, but fiscally not the best he could have done.
posted by jenwells at 6:22 AM on September 19, 2001

i just hope this doesn't get people to TRY and find some link to relatives lost in order to get the money.
posted by cheesebot at 8:36 AM on September 19, 2001