September 19, 2001

4:18 AM

The Christian Guide to Small Armshelpfully seeks to inform theists which gun best suits their needs. "The most useful arm to the Christian warrior is probably the rifle or the carbine." With citizens like these, who needs terrorists? Link via Mike's Weblog
posted by johnnyace (30 comments total)

With citizens like these, who needs terrorists?

Please tell me that statement was ironic, johnny.
posted by dagny at 4:33 AM on September 19, 2001

What would Jesus have used? A Glock or a Semi-auto?
posted by dawiz at 4:34 AM on September 19, 2001

Maybe my recollection is bad but I don't remember Jesus arming the disciples and taking on the Romans. It could've been towards the back part noone reads.
posted by geoff. at 4:41 AM on September 19, 2001

a primer for the Christian who is beginning to reject the false theology that requires him to be a pacifistic patsy in the face of heathen hordes.

They must mean the false theology like "turn the other cheek" and "love your neighbor as youself".

This kind of selective forgetting of scripture is exactly what the terrorists do. Why should Johhny's statement be ironic?
posted by anewc2 at 4:49 AM on September 19, 2001

Matt 10:34-36 has always intrigued me.
posted by revbrian at 5:06 AM on September 19, 2001

Oh, for fuck's sake, can we NOT tar all member's of a particular philosophy with a brush dipped in the bucket of the most extreme? This is just inane.
posted by Optamystic at 5:07 AM on September 19, 2001

Posted before, but you can also Ask The Rabbi.
posted by luser at 5:15 AM on September 19, 2001

Just to point out that Theism is quite different from Christianity.
posted by LAM at 5:16 AM on September 19, 2001

Optamystic, I don't get it. Maybe you could be a little more specific about who's tarring whom. I was comparing one extremist group to another, not saying anything about a broader philosophy. Maybe I should have put quotes around "false theology" to show they were the words from the website, not my own. Sorry if I created the wrong impression.
posted by anewc2 at 5:20 AM on September 19, 2001

[What would Jesus have used? A Glock or a Semi-auto?]

Just thought I would mention that a Glock is a semi-automatic weapon.
posted by revbrian at 5:22 AM on September 19, 2001

We used to sing Onward, Christian Soldiers at Sunday School back in the '50s. It always scared the life out of me.
posted by scotty at 5:23 AM on September 19, 2001

"I'm a loyal follower of Brother John Birch and a member of the Ante Odds Baptist Church" - Charlie Daniels band from Uneasy Rider
Some read the Bible, others use it to thump people on the head or to hide behind.
We certainly have our own home grown extremists and they have leaders such as Falwell to make them feel good about their hatred.
Fundamentalists of any faith know nothing about the fundamentals of their faith and a great deal about extremism and hatred.
Even political parties have cheerleaders of hate. Think Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh and Hannity.
posted by nofundy at 5:43 AM on September 19, 2001

Ick. If you don't mind me posting this... I think it's quite appropriate for such a time:

Romans 12:18-19
If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.
posted by aaronshaf at 5:57 AM on September 19, 2001

mofundy: Ante Odds? Perhaps that's...Antioch?
posted by luser at 6:05 AM on September 19, 2001

Romans 12:18-19

My wife quoted this passage to me when I mentioned this web site to her. I was going to use it elsewhere but - you beat me to it. She thought it strange that so many were quoting God, revenge, and war in the same breath. I didn't have much to say since I am supposedly part of the "heathen hordes".
posted by cmacleod at 6:55 AM on September 19, 2001

Just thought I'd point out that if you have a citation and you want to create a link to it, you can go to this page, enter the citation, hit search and then copy the url into your post. This would be a help for the non-scholars among us.
Example:
Matthew 10:34-36

If anyone knows of a similar service for the Old Testament, let me know.
posted by boaz at 7:19 AM on September 19, 2001

Linkable citations using various versions of the Bible. Use "Passage Lookup".
posted by gd779 at 7:37 AM on September 19, 2001

This has got to be a hoax. I mean, seriously - no author's name, no credible publisher. Whatever.
posted by atfrost at 7:43 AM on September 19, 2001

Linkable citations using various versions of the Bible. Use "Passage Lookup".

Thanks. That link pretty much blows mine out of the water.
posted by boaz at 7:43 AM on September 19, 2001

Theology aside, I'm puzzled why anyone would equate the militia of the United States with terrorists.
posted by mikewas at 7:49 AM on September 19, 2001

You are not serious, mikewas.
Arms-bearing extreme-right militia in the U.S. are probably polishing their rifles and dusting their fuses right now.
The point of this thread - well made, from several very distinct viewpoints - is how dangerous it is (because it's so easy)to use theism as an excuse for violence.

If only people who say they love G-d would obey at least one of the commandments: thou shalt not kill.
Or, if they do, at least refrain from breaking another: thou shalt not invoke G-d's name in vain.
The violation of the two together is the reason for 99,9% of evil in the world.

Crazy extreme-right nutters have been abusing the Constitution - and the definition of "militia" you posted - for much too long.

Quite honestly, you might as well say you're puzzled how anyone would equate Bin Laden's militia with terrorists.
Or were you too laconic? Please advise.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 8:53 AM on September 19, 2001

Understand that the Second Amendment is not only Liberty's Teeth, providing the enforcement of the rest of the Bill of Rights, but in fact the command of Almighty God! Let no tyrant think that he can oppose Him who says by His servant :

Let the saints be joyful in glory; Let them sing aloud on their beds. Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, And a two-edged sword in their hand, To execute vengeance on the nations, And punishments on the peoples; To bind their kings with chains, And their nobles with fetters of iron; To execute on them the written judgment--This honor have all His saints. Praise the LORD! -Psalm 149:5-9

I found this in the website of our topic. Frankly, this kind of stuff scares the crap out of me.

And if you have various militia believing in this religious rhetoric, problems are bound to follow.
posted by ashbury at 9:01 AM on September 19, 2001

The folks behind the website in question are not just militia. There are other "code words" in use there that would seem to place them in the racialist fringe as well. So we have a quadruple-threat: religio-politico-racists with guns.
posted by jdbanks at 9:40 AM on September 19, 2001

Isn’t the reason the New Testament is New because Jesus brought a new way that superseded the old? It seems like Christians who want to justify positions that clearly contradict the teachings of Christ fall back on the fire ’n’ brimstone Old Testament for justification. But isn’t the whole point of Christianity to not do things the old way?
posted by kirkaracha at 9:55 AM on September 19, 2001

Luser,
The Ante Odds was a word play on Antioch, a common name for rural churches in the South.
posted by nofundy at 10:07 AM on September 19, 2001

Isn’t the reason the New Testament is New because Jesus brought a new way that superseded the old? It seems like Christians who want to justify positions that clearly contradict the teachings of Christ fall back on the fire ’n’ brimstone Old Testament for justification. But isn’t the whole point of Christianity to not do things the old way?

Matthew 5:17-20. I owe ya one gd779.

Disclaimer: I am not a Christian
posted by boaz at 12:02 PM on September 19, 2001

jesus would just have to braid his hair into a SAW.
posted by th3ph17 at 1:01 PM on September 19, 2001

I owe ya one gd779.

Some day, and that day may never come, I will call upon you to do a service for me...

[Italian music plays softly in the background]
posted by gd779 at 2:26 PM on September 19, 2001

An offer I can't refuse!
posted by boaz at 3:17 PM on September 19, 2001

A reading from the Book of Armaments, Chapter 4, Verses 16 to 20:

Then did he raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, saying, "Bless this, O Lord, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the people did rejoice and did feast upon the lambs and toads and tree-sloths and fruit-bats and orangutans and breakfast cereals ... Now did the Lord say, "First thou pullest the Holy Pin. Then thou must count to three. Three shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the number of the counting, be reached, then lobbest thou the Holy Hand Grenade in the direction of thine foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it."

-- Monty Python, "Monty Python and the Holy Grail"

Thanks be to http://www.interweavers.com/brett/humor/monty.python.html
posted by krisjohn at 6:09 PM on September 19, 2001