"Got his nose in every colon..."
July 29, 2011 12:45 AM   Subscribe

In a two minute-and-forty-two-second advertisment against advertising, Microsoft explains why you should use their product instead of that of their competitor [via]
posted by Blazecock Pileon (138 comments total) 17 users marked this as a favorite

 
That' s actually a lot better than I expected, but then I was expecting I wouldn't be able to watch it all the way through, so...
posted by BrotherCaine at 12:50 AM on July 29, 2011 [4 favorites]


I lol'd.
posted by delmoi at 12:57 AM on July 29, 2011


Also, watching this on Youtube, somewhat ironic.
posted by delmoi at 12:58 AM on July 29, 2011 [17 favorites]


There is nothing in this life more guaranteed to make me cringe than corporate comedy.
posted by minifigs at 12:59 AM on July 29, 2011 [14 favorites]


It's a strangely wonderful thing to encounter this post at work, so I have all day to imagine how awful it is, only, inevitably, eventually to be shocked at how much worse it actually is.

I'm looking forward to that moment.
posted by ArmyOfKittens at 1:13 AM on July 29, 2011 [7 favorites]


Not only did Microsoft use YouTube to host the video, they had it categorized as "unlisted".
An unlisted video is a different type of private video. Unlisted means that only people who know the link to the video can view it (such as friends or family to whom you send the link). An unlisted video will not appear in any of YouTube's public spaces (such as search results, your channel, or the Browse page). An unlisted video is different to a private video in these ways:
You don't need a YouTube account to watch the video (you can see an unlisted video if someone sends you the video's link)
There's no 25 person sharing limit
Even though your video will not appear in any of YouTube's public spaces, links to the video could still appear elsewhere on the web if anyone who knows the video's URL shares it. It is therefore up to you to maintain the privacy of your video and the unlisted URL. You can further restrict the video at any time by returning to your account and marking the video as Private.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:18 AM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


In a two minute-and-forty-two-second advertisment against advertising

This is SO us.
posted by hal_c_on at 1:19 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Continuing the proud tradition of Microsoft Songsmith.
(I lol'd too.)
posted by chmmr at 1:20 AM on July 29, 2011 [3 favorites]


Metafilter: We've got our nose in every colon.
posted by ShutterBun at 1:28 AM on July 29, 2011 [10 favorites]


No. NOTHING would make me want to go Office 365. Whatever the fuck it is.
posted by spicynuts at 1:31 AM on July 29, 2011 [27 favorites]


Is there a simple way to use encryption with gmail so they don't know what you're writing about? Yes, there are manual ways -- write your message offline, encrypt it, attach it to a gmail message, mail it -- but I mean has someone made a browser add-on that would let me do that fairly transparently? Open my gmail account in one tab, open secretmailaddon in another tab, type a message in the secretmailaddon tab without Google scanning the contents, click Send in the secretmailaddon tab, and let secretmailaddon worry about encrypting my message, attaching it to a gmail message, and sending it without Google learning about my painful itch. And reverse the process for mail coming from someone else using the secretmailaddon.
posted by pracowity at 1:34 AM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


Cowards won't let you post comments or rate it either.
posted by Peztopiary at 1:34 AM on July 29, 2011 [5 favorites]


I haven't tried it, but ostensibly this greasemonkey script enables PGP over gmail. If anyone tries it in chrome let me know how it works for you.
posted by BrotherCaine at 1:43 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Does the gmail ad algorithm OCR attached images? You could always type up your email on your typewriter, scan it in, and attach it as an image.

Seriously...or just don't use gmail for distributing your top secret secrets.
posted by Chekhovian at 1:48 AM on July 29, 2011 [3 favorites]


Not only did Microsoft use YouTube to host the video, they had it categorized as "unlisted".


Cowards won't let you post comments or rate it either.

This is evidently not something Microsoft intended to share on YouTube - assuming that Microsoft, FSVO Microsoft, made it, of course. The account that it is posted on belongs to "dgrober", which I assume is David Grober, a technology blogger.

Best guess, this came from the recent Microsoft Global Exchange sales conference. It's not an advertisement - it's a morale-boosting comedy skit to wake salespeople up during a training presentation on how to sell Office 365.

pracowity - Gmail Encrypt, or if you use Thunderbird there's a PGP plug-in. But, to be honest, if your only concern is to stop GMail being able to scan it for keywords, you could just use Rot13.
posted by running order squabble fest at 1:53 AM on July 29, 2011 [12 favorites]


I'm pretty sure I get targeted advertising from my microsoft email website too. And then all of their other 4 billion websites.

Is microsoft 100% saying they don't read our email? I know gmail shows that fact off, but just because microsoft doesn't show it off, doesn't mean they aren't doing it. I mean whats stopping this bloated monopoly...ethics?
posted by hal_c_on at 1:54 AM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


That was a clever way of explaining a part of Google's revenue stream. Meh, I still trust them.
posted by coolxcool=rad at 1:59 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


And Microsoft Hotmail.... doesn't show ads?
posted by PenDevil at 2:07 AM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


Is microsoft 100% saying they don't read our email?

You know those campaign ads that only talk about the bad things that the opposing candidate is doing, even if the candidate it supports is doing exactly the same thing? Yeah...

I wouldn't go assuming that Microsoft is saying anything of the sort.
posted by Avelwood at 2:11 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


I think the most successful aspect of this attack is the not-so-subtle commingling of Google with the Government ("the GMailman" is like "G-man" and of course he is dressed as a stereotypical USPS worker, with the shorts and carrier bag.) If MSFT can strengthen that connection in people's heads so it becomes "I don't want the government reading my mail or in my colon", then they may provoke some switching.
posted by chavenet at 2:12 AM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


Microsoft: Yeah, we scare old people about Gmail to make our dolla holla.
posted by hal_c_on at 2:16 AM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


"I don't want the government reading my mail or in my colon", then they may provoke some switching.

We don't just want small government, we want government so small it will fit in your colon"

- Love, The GOP
posted by spicynuts at 2:17 AM on July 29, 2011 [10 favorites]


Is microsoft 100% saying they don't read our email?

They read what Google writes internally about what it reads in our email.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:19 AM on July 29, 2011


running order squabble fest is right that the video is sales material from the Microsoft Global Exchange conference, not an ad intended for individual Gmail customers (at least, according to Mary Jo Foley's original article).
posted by markpasc at 2:20 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Office 365: The Frozen Banana that won't make you sick and kill you.
posted by emperor.seamus at 2:22 AM on July 29, 2011 [12 favorites]


What's "youtube"? I tried binging it but nothing came up.
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:26 AM on July 29, 2011 [4 favorites]


I tried binging it but nothing came up.

Grab your zune and keep squirting.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:28 AM on July 29, 2011 [14 favorites]


OCR attached images and factor results into adsense algorithm... thx Chekhovian, we'll get right on that.
posted by chmmr at 2:30 AM on July 29, 2011


Oh well, if they're going to go that way... Microsoft is a compound word built out of the two words men don't want to hear about their penises; "micro" and "soft".
posted by twoleftfeet at 2:30 AM on July 29, 2011 [4 favorites]


Where is the evidence that this is by microsoft? The production seemed a bit shaky.
posted by memebake at 2:33 AM on July 29, 2011


Ah, here we go
I asked Microsoft whether the video is legit and received an official no comment. I have to say I think it’s the real deal ... The thing to remember about Microsoft MGX videos are they’re just a means of revving up the sales troops. — kind of like what Chief Operating Officer Kevin Turner did with his one-liners at Microsoft’s recent Worldwide Partner Conference. They are meant to be a sales tool for customer calls. Still, it’s interesting to see what the Softies are focusing on, in terms of their sales messages….
So its like an internal promotion video or skit for a conference or something. Not really an advertisement.
posted by memebake at 2:36 AM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


NB: the video was leaked to ZDNet by a conference attendee and ZDNet uploaded it - thats why its on youtube as unlisted and with comments turned off.
posted by memebake at 2:38 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Where is the evidence that this is by microsoft? The production seemed a bit shaky.

That's your evidence right there.
posted by chavenet at 2:41 AM on July 29, 2011 [15 favorites]


What happens on February 29th?
posted by fullerine at 2:41 AM on July 29, 2011


It's reached the point where I need major convincing just to watch MS propaganda, which I am never in turn even remotely convinced by.
posted by DU at 2:44 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


They were using the wrong SNL sketch. A sweaty Ballmer in summer postal shorts could have really sold this. Going off on that little girl all living-in-a-van down-by-the-river style.
posted by hal9k at 2:57 AM on July 29, 2011 [3 favorites]


Also: MSNL
posted by hal9k at 2:58 AM on July 29, 2011


memebake: Yeah - David Grober works for ZDNet. It's kind of odd that anyone thought Microsoft had uploaded this for public viewing, or that it was an advertisement. Although after the Launch Party ads, who knows?

Hotmail-as-was versus GMail isn't really what this is about. Office365 is a competitor for Google Apps in the small business space, not the personal space. Google offers a cloud-based back end for small businesses, and has for a while. Office 365 is an extension of Microsoft Office into the cloud, aimed at businesses - from sole traders to SMEs. Essentially, people who don't have the resources or the need for their own enterprise infrastructure. The basic pitch is "You've already bought Microsoft Office - why not extend those services into the cloud, rather than having to wrangle another productivity suite online?"

The weird thing is that the Mail service in Google Apps for business doesn't display ads - but this is, after all, sales.
posted by running order squabble fest at 3:00 AM on July 29, 2011 [7 favorites]


Every Microsoft video represents people in the same hideous American Office cornflower blue Kafkaesque work environment. Even that Songsmith one. Blech.

I've just had to install XP Mode (a virtual machine) within a VMWare Fusion (virtual machine) copy of Windows 7, just so I can test websites in IE7/8 - so I'm not any more into Microsoft than I've ever been right now. But I also had to (figure out how to) uninstall iTunes, reinstall an old copy, do some hex hacking and reinstall, just to get Mac OS X Lion to let me manage files on my own iPhone, on another computer. So Apple sucks too. Google ... Google use Java for phone apps, enough said.

But yeah, mostly Microsoft suck, and have done for a long time now.
posted by iotic at 3:07 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


just so I can test websites in IE7/8

[short derail]
IETester
[end derail]

posted by DreamerFi at 3:26 AM on July 29, 2011 [7 favorites]


As in-house corporate motivational movies meant to rev up the sales team go, this one wasn't all that bad. Nowhere near as bad as that Windows 7 Party thing, which iirc was actually intended to go out to the general public.
posted by ook at 3:57 AM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


When they can offer me a high-quality email option with integrated chat--for free--we'll talk. Until then, I'm good with Gmail and AdBlock+.
posted by phunniemee at 4:01 AM on July 29, 2011


When they can offer me a high-quality email option with integrated chat--for free--we'll talk. Until then, I'm good with Gmail and AdBlock+.

Not to mention g-phone.
posted by spicynuts at 4:13 AM on July 29, 2011


It looks like you're trying to call the kettle black.

Would you like help?
posted by Benny Andajetz at 4:26 AM on July 29, 2011 [23 favorites]


IETester

Ooh, thanks :)
posted by iotic at 4:26 AM on July 29, 2011


Another short derail: "Every OS Sucks"
posted by TrishaLynn at 4:45 AM on July 29, 2011 [4 favorites]


do you find that you pine for simpler times?
posted by nervousfritz at 4:46 AM on July 29, 2011 [11 favorites]


You could always type up your email on your typewriter, scan it in, and attach it as an image.

I love this idea. I'm going to do this.
posted by JanetLand at 4:47 AM on July 29, 2011


Handwriting would work better - and mirror-writing better still!
posted by running order squabble fest at 4:52 AM on July 29, 2011


This is why I'm looking for a CAPTCHA font ball for my Selectric.
posted by randomkeystrike at 4:56 AM on July 29, 2011 [9 favorites]


Gee, a company I hate and I company I distrust.
posted by tommasz at 5:13 AM on July 29, 2011


Last year all Microsoft hosted email services were unable to send any email to a host using Sender Address Verification as an anti-spam measure.

It took 2 months of getting high level Microsoft customers to complain to their sales/support at MS before they were able to get the broken upgrade rolled back.

Technical details here: http://www.postfix.org/workarounds.html
posted by Jerub at 5:19 AM on July 29, 2011


I've been using metafilter as my email client for years now. I encypt all my messages with the bsnark algorithm and post them here.
posted by srboisvert at 5:20 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


"Microsoft explains why you should use their product ..."

And yet it's still not gonna happen.
posted by bwg at 5:27 AM on July 29, 2011


I never get ads in my Gmail when I view it via Thunderbird. This is dopey, but again, it's a rah-rah sales meeting video, and it's perfectly fine for that sort of thing.
posted by Mister_A at 5:28 AM on July 29, 2011


why are the subtitles so fucking big?
why are there subtitles at all?
posted by nathancaswell at 5:29 AM on July 29, 2011


Aside from the whole pot/kettle/black issue...What is it about Microsoft that renders them, seemingly, incapable of producing promotional videos that aren't cringe-inducingly awkward, lame, and amateurish? I mean...I have to assume that these things are produced through their marketing/promotions army, yes? And, whatever you may think of marketing people, you have to assume that they have a line on some actual writers/directors/designers.

And, yet, MS continually churns-out stuff that feels more like a "some nerds over in the Outlook Compatibility Layer dev group had some free time and brought a video camera in one day" production.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:34 AM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


pracowity, You should really access gmail through an IMAP client rather than their web interface, selecting an IMAP client that supports PGP or GPG. You must then convince all friends with whom you want encrypted communications to do likewise. And hit your client's little encrypt button every time you message one.

I've had better luck switching friends over to encrypting their instant messages using OTR, which requires less key management stuff like passwords. I've never gotten anyone interested in using Zfone though.

We need a popular communications tool that's encrypted from the get go, maybe an instant message and social networking system welded unto an encrypted cloud storage system, like Wuala.

Please note that very few cloud storage solutions offer real encryption. DropBox, MobileMe, Google Music, etc, read all your files. There is a very real risk that users of these cloud storage solutions will eventually get sued by the MafiAA for the contents of their folders. Wuala offers significantly better encryption for your personal files but retains this vulnerability, being based in Switzerland surely helps though.
posted by jeffburdges at 5:36 AM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


I like the current set of Microsoft products. The cloud hosting stuff seems quite good, and it's well priced.

The main impetus of this advert is that google advertise on gmail according to keywords in your email. It's a valid point. Not one I particularly care about, but some people do. I assume that hotmail show adverts which are not contextualised towards what's in your email.

All this is moot though. I don't think it matters what microsoft do at this point. They're the evil empire, they'll always be painted as the evil empire and nothing they do will change that. It doesn't matter how developer friendly they are, or how compliant the latest version of the browser is. It doesn't matter that they take your privacy seriously. It doesn't matter how good their servers are or how easy to use Win7 is.

People just hate microsoft now. Nothing that microsoft does will change this fact.
posted by seanyboy at 5:40 AM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


"It's reached the point where I need major convincing just to watch MS propaganda, which I am never in turn even remotely convinced by."

Thank you for taking the time to remind us what an iconoclast you are.
posted by Eideteker at 5:45 AM on July 29, 2011 [6 favorites]


I can't be bothered encrypting or even using email - I just call Amy Winehouse's mobile phone and leave a voicemail asking Rupert Murdoch to pass my message on to whoever.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 5:56 AM on July 29, 2011 [16 favorites]


People just hate microsoft now. Nothing that microsoft does will change this fact.

Yep. Old grudges die hard.
posted by smackfu at 5:57 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Aside from the whole pot/kettle/black issue...What is it about Microsoft that renders them, seemingly, incapable of producing promotional videos that aren't cringe-inducingly awkward, lame, and amateurish?

It isn't a promotional video - the FPP was mistaken. Read the thread for more info.
posted by running order squabble fest at 6:01 AM on July 29, 2011


Oh, FFS.

"Promotional" doesn't necessarily mean "Public". Promotions occur internally, too, for a wide variety of issues, projects, products, etc. And, regardless of where the "promotion" occurs, or what the intent, MS still exhibits a startlingly lame sense of production, and that's the point of my comment.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:11 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Microsoft's SkyDrive is not encrypted, seanyboy. I'd imagine the ToS even says they'll read your files.

In fact, technically all closed source software fails encryption by definition. Ideally, you shouldn't even use closed source applications with third party open source encryption plugins, like Apple's Mail or Safari. Wuala fails this too.

There are many tools like duplicity, git-annex, and jgit that offer encrypted storage via Amazon S3 or others.

Are there any consumer oriented encryption open source cloud storage options? Syncany maybe?
posted by jeffburdges at 6:14 AM on July 29, 2011


It's OK for you to be angry about people providing helpful additional information, Thorzdad, although I'm not sure what you get out of it personally. I was simply answering the question:

I mean...I have to assume that these things are produced through their marketing/promotions army, yes?

The answer to which is "no". This isn't a marketing or a promotions joint. But if you prefer being wrong, that's totally cool, also, and I'll keep it in mind for the future.
posted by running order squabble fest at 6:16 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


I do not miss the days of using Office, but this was kind of funny.

Meh, I still trust them.
posted by coolxcool=rad


LOL

People just hate microsoft now. Nothing that microsoft does will change this fact.
posted by seanyboy


There's a huge group of people that hate Apple also. If you're successful enough, it's going to happen. The difference is there's also a huge group of people that love apple. That's where Microsoft has failed. But if you look around, Microsoft fanboys are out there. They even have their own leader.

Paul Thurrott:

I spent much of today enjoying "Gmail Man," an absolutely fantastic internal Microsoft sales video that, quick frankly, should be adapted into commercials for mainstream TV.

posted by justgary at 6:17 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


That was just painful to watch.

Is there an English word to describe the feeling of being embarrassed for someone else? Can we just call it a Microsoft? Because this cringe-inducing "ad" just gave me a Microsoft.
posted by xqwzts at 6:20 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


The difference is there's also a huge group of people that love apple.

Love Apple and hate Microsoft in one breath. Did you say the via? Is that surprising to anyone?
posted by smackfu at 6:25 AM on July 29, 2011


Justgary I love the way that Thurrott's site is exactly what you'd expect a Windows fan site to look like. it's not attractive, but all the functionality of Daring Fireball is there. And more! Does Daring Fireball give you informative advertising? Does it let you search with Bing? I think not.

Look! There's a picture of Thurrott having a cup of coffee! Doesn't that make you feel so much more like this is a site you can empathize with? None of that chilly, design-led stuff!
posted by running order squabble fest at 6:25 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


There is nothing in this life more guaranteed to make me cringe than corporate comedy.

Amen. The company I work for is small potatoes compared to Microsoft obviously, but I still get a bad twitch when I think of the occasions I have been cajoled away from my workstation to participate in some idiotic skit at some company sales meeting. Soul-killing humiliation.
posted by aught at 6:30 AM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


Microsoft is in a box of their own making.

They will never be successful selling privacy - that horse is out of the barn. They've earned their Darth Vader status and it will be impossible to erase completely.

They are too invested in office productivity. The problem is that their office apps already do what the vast majority of people need them to do, and have done that for at least two or three versions. So they've latched on to a subscription model to milk profits. The question for most people is "why do I need to subscribe to get some bells and whistles when Office 2000 does everything I need?" If Microsoft starts adding incompatibilities to the new versions in order to prod people to "upgrade" or "subscribe", I see failure.

There are too many talented people writing free or cheap software that works great that the one-stop-shop-software-behemoth model is dead.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:44 AM on July 29, 2011 [4 favorites]


I could understand if Microsoft was trying to attack Gmail on its merits, but this video just struck me as blatantly misleading and dishonest. The implication from the video is that there is a person, a live human, reading your email. The other implication is that Google is associating the contents of your email with you. Both of these are just plain wrong. A human never reads your email, and the ad algorithm isn't identifying your email contents with you personally. It's a bullshit scare tactic, and it seems like Microsoft created this ad for its sales people with the idea that they'll go out and tell mislead customers with this crap.

I was actually starting to feel some sympathy for Microsoft lately, but this is just plain garbage.
posted by mullingitover at 6:48 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Is there an English word to describe the feeling of being embarrassed for someone else? Can we just call it a Microsoft? Because this cringe-inducing "ad" just gave me a Microsoft.

It would be absurd to give Microsoft the credit for a long history of internal sales promotional projects from corporations world wide. Back when I used to do audio for conferences and the like I some more than cringe inducing corporate promotions, they were vomit inducing. One soft drinks company (soda I believe in the States) had a group of dancers dancing to a horrible song about how your future, your family, your friends, are all so fortunate to work for and use the products of that company. It will enhance your life, make you very happy, joyous even, and by God when you sell these products you're doing a service to the joy and happiness of the human race itself! You can feel wonderful about being part of that company and our promotional send off will make sure that you know that. Go forth, sell, and be happy.

Of course none of this is relevant to the products themselves. Advertising, internal or external, isn't a factor in how I enjoy or don't enjoy a product. Windows 7 is great. I use Google Docs for Office stuff because my needs are simple, I have an Android phone, my sister has a Mac, we simply don't care however, they are just tools.
posted by juiceCake at 7:00 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


do you find that you pine for simpler times?

You joke, but I kinda want to switch my primary email client to pine. I really dug that client.
posted by eoden at 7:03 AM on July 29, 2011


Isn't "Google makes it theirs" a weird grammatical mash of singular and plural? If Google is singular, it's "Google makes it its [business]" or, if we're treating Google as plural then "Google make it theirs".

Tell me that I'm not the only person slightly bothered by this?
posted by greymullet at 7:12 AM on July 29, 2011


People just hate microsoft now. Nothing that microsoft does will change this fact.

In fairness, I hated Microsoft when the slow, crappy, bug-ridden product that they were foisting on everyone in lieu of superior fare from nearly every other source else was a BASIC interpreter. So I guess I hated Microsoft before hating Microsoft was cool.
posted by localroger at 7:15 AM on July 29, 2011


Is there an English word to describe the feeling of being embarrassed for someone else? Can we just call it a Microsoft? Because this cringe-inducing "ad" just gave me a Microsoft.

I believe the word you are looking for is fontrum.
posted by immlass at 7:25 AM on July 29, 2011


Is there an English word to describe the feeling of being embarrassed for someone else?

Douche chill!
posted by rusty at 7:27 AM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


"do you find that you pine for simpler times?"

Better acronym, pine or twain?
posted by klangklangston at 7:37 AM on July 29, 2011


Speaking of having one's nose, in every colon, Microsoft isn't exactly innocent here:
On the other hand, the FBI appears to be excited about the new opportunities for surveillance and evidence-gathering that Microsoft's new Greenfield application might provide. Greenfield is reportedly an "activity-based navigation" system from Microsoft Research that will be able to track a phone user's movements through a suite of sensors on the mobile phone, allowing a trail to be gathered indoors, where GPS tracking doesn't reach.
posted by mullingitover at 7:37 AM on July 29, 2011


The answer to which is "no". This isn't a marketing or a promotions joint. But if you prefer being wrong, that's totally cool, also, and I'll keep it in mind for the future.

Seriously? Are you contending that Microsoft doesn't have a marketing or promotions department? Cause, y'know, they do. And it's staffed with actual trained marketing professionals who should know what they're doing. In every corporation I've ever worked with, stuff like this video absolutely gets run past the marketing department.

And, you can stuff-it with the personal snark.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:37 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


So that's why I've been seeing ads about linear slide bearings all over the place for the last few weeks....

Google has decided I want to build some very expensive industrial tooling.

What happens if I write myself a bunch of email about fish hatcheries? Or perhaps deep seam coal mining?

Home made butter is right out... ;-)
posted by MikeWarot at 7:40 AM on July 29, 2011


gmail - free, with context scanned ads
hotmail - free with ads - unknown if context scanned
office 365 (enterprise email and office apps) - no adverts, £4 per user per month
google apps (enterprise email and office apps) - no adverts or scanning, £3.30 per user per month, free for charities and education.

Microsoft aren't exactly comparing like with like here. You pay for your email service, you're the customer. You get your email free, you're probably the product being sold, though it's possible you're on a loss leader service which will to try and convert you to a paying customer.

icloud is paid for by your purchasing of an apple device to connect to it, before someone brings that up.
posted by ArkhanJG at 7:40 AM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


We don't just want small government, we want government so small it will fit in your colon"

Not too small though! Otherwise you couldn't feel it!
–Marcus Bachman
posted by Cold Lurkey at 7:42 AM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


They just don't it do they!
posted by tection99 at 7:46 AM on July 29, 2011


Are you contending that Microsoft doesn't have a marketing or promotions department?

The short answer to that is "no".

The slightly longer answer is "no, obviously not. I am saying that the marketing department is unlikely to be responsible for producing skits at an internal event, because it is not marketing. Nor is it a promotion."

There's a longer answer than that, but you would clearly rather swallow your own tongue than acknowledge that you didn't read the thread before posting. And I don't want that on my conscience.
posted by running order squabble fest at 8:01 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


It's actually a funny, clever video, and successfully makes its point about the privacy problems inherent with Gmail.
posted by ericbop at 8:05 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


It's not an Apple vs. PC ad!? Microsoft is certainly calling the kettle black here, considering that they want me to pay $100 for a set of Office applications that Google will allow me to use (almost) for free.

That said, I'm suddenly intrigued that Google is scanning all of my personal e-mail. In my heart of hearts, I know that there is no human intelligence reading my personal correspondence, however I'm intrigued that the machines might have teased some sort of algorithm out of my word choices, content and pitch in such a way that they might perceive my forest of trees better than I.

Is there some way to contact Google for access to my 'thought cloud'? I'm certain that their data is plotting things in ways that I can't anticipate, the same way that I can't anticipate what will turn up on my list of recommended purchases from Amazon.
posted by vhsiv at 8:16 AM on July 29, 2011


Adblock for those annoying ads.

Don't discuss uber-sensitive things you don't want others to see via mediums you don't control 100%. (I'm looking at you penis photographing politicians of the world!)

Close the thread please, that's all that needs to be said.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:16 AM on July 29, 2011


nathancaswell: why are the subtitles so fucking big?
why are there subtitles at all?


It's a video from a sales conference, so if you can't hear the audio (due to technical glitches or noisy neighbors), you can still read the dialog. And they're probably big because they have 12,000 or so attendees, and everyone needs to be able to read it.

And it's not like Microsoft's own Hotmail is devoid of personalized ads. They are proud of their targeted ads in Hotmail. Here's a bit more from their Advertising division:
Why advertise on Hotmail?
Through innovative ad technologies and rich media formats, Hotmail showcases your brand in a clean, uncluttered environment that gives your message supreme visibility to a targetable, web-savvy audience. And they pay close attention: Hotmail offers the second highest share of minutes (21%) in the email category. You can choose from one of several advertising categories for more refined targeting. See the Audience Profile tab for more information.
And let's stop repeating the cute phrase "if you're not paying, you're the product" -- it's not that simple. You're receiving benefits from the product (making you a consumer of said product), but to fund the product, you become the audience for adverts.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:17 AM on July 29, 2011


2004 g-mailed. It wants its fatuous controversy back.
posted by bicyclefish at 8:21 AM on July 29, 2011 [3 favorites]


I liked the way it showed how gmail reads your mail in a cheerful and non-doomy way.

I don't know what 365 is and couldn't care less.
posted by fake at 8:24 AM on July 29, 2011


Hotmail always seemed to me to be some sort of off-color solicitation. Maybe I'm just over-sensitive about linguistic connotation.

I'd trust Google's AdSense evaluation of my e-mail before I'd trust Microsoft's. Steve Ballmer is a thug.
posted by vhsiv at 8:24 AM on July 29, 2011


Are there any consumer oriented encryption open source cloud storage options?

Sure, several products will allow you to store encrypted data with a local key: Jungle Disk, Carbonite, etc. If you lose the key, you can no longer decrypt your data. Of course, you're relying on the vendor to have properly implemented encryption, key management, etc within the closed-source clients they provide, but if you're paying $50 per year or whatever what can you expect?

I don't know what 365 is and couldn't care less.

Office 365 is the new version of Microsoft's cloud collaboration solution. The old version was called BPOS, which I think is a very apt acronym. These products compete with Google Apps for Business/Education/Government, which are designed to replace the email and collaboration infrastructure that these organizations typically run: Exchange/GroupWise/Domino and maybe even SharePoint. This is a big area of competition between Google and Microsoft right now. (disclaimer: I work with Google Apps)
posted by me & my monkey at 8:31 AM on July 29, 2011


And let's stop repeating the cute phrase "if you're not paying, you're the product" -- it's not that simple. You're receiving benefits from the product (making you a consumer of said product), but to fund the product, you become the audience for adverts.

I don't really see a meaningful difference between the two. Would you prefer "your eyeballs are the product"?
posted by me & my monkey at 8:32 AM on July 29, 2011


M$ wants you to pay $6/mo. for Office 365. That's $72 a year. And you're SOL if you don't have an always-on internet connection.

Google apps are 'free' and M$ already has a suffocating market-share.

I'll pass on this service and continue using Google apps, TextEdit and Office 2000, thank you.
posted by vhsiv at 8:44 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


And let's stop repeating the cute phrase "if you're not paying, you're the product" -- it's not that simple.

Although in this case, you are paying - you're paying $6 a month for Office 365 per seat, and... about $50 a year for Google Apps Premiere? For which you get an admin account and at least one dedicated email address.

That's partly where it feels like the video is being a bit disingenuous; I don't get ads based on word matches with my Google webmail, or on my Google searches if I am logged into my paid Google account. You _could_ argue - and maybe this is what the sales training went on to do - that even without the ads Google is still storing your search queries and machine-scanning your emails for statistical analysis - that you are paying Google and still contributing to their search and marketing research. But in terms of perceived effect, this is comparing Microsoft's paid-for service, Office 365, to Google's free service.
posted by running order squabble fest at 8:49 AM on July 29, 2011


So Office 365 isn't the Whole Foods house brand office suite?
posted by birdherder at 8:52 AM on July 29, 2011 [4 favorites]


My favorite part about the Office web crap is that it's 100% guaranteed to not work correctly in anything other than Internet Explorer. Which isn't available on any platform except Windows. Oh sure there is probably some basic functionality for other browsers, but I'll bet dollars to doughnuts there is plenty that doesn't work or just plain isn't available.

Google costs you exactly $0 for the free version. It works on every platform. Anything they say Office 365 costs up front, remember the hidden costs for the OS. And the vendor lock-in.
posted by caution live frogs at 9:05 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


I'm just happy no one feels the need to post our cringe-worthy company videos to YouTube.
posted by smackfu at 9:09 AM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


ArmyOfKittens: "It's a strangely wonderful thing to encounter this post at work, so I have all day to imagine how awful it is, only, inevitably, eventually to be shocked at how much worse it actually is.

I'm looking forward to that moment.
"

Dear holy shit.
posted by ArmyOfKittens at 9:37 AM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


Here's a bad old joke from the days when people still remembered MS-DOS, I'll have to give the punchline phonetically since this joke really only works verbally.

Q: What do you type to get to the gay section of the internet?

A: See colon enter.
posted by charlie don't surf at 9:37 AM on July 29, 2011 [3 favorites]


smackfu: I'm just happy no one feels the need to post our cringe-worthy company videos to YouTube.


Lest we forget: Bank of America corporate meeting is serenaded with U2's "One"

David Cross cover version.
posted by running order squabble fest at 9:42 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


I could understand if Microsoft was trying to attack Gmail on its merits, but this video just struck me as blatantly misleading and dishonest. The implication from the video is that there is a person, a live human, reading your email.

Oh my God- you're serious.

When I was four years old I was convinced that if my mom bought Mr Clean, a brawny, sexy bald man would appear in our kitchen, but by the time I was five, I figured out that what you see in ads (or these teambuilding promotions, what-the-fuck-ever) doesn't always represent reality.

Advertisers have to assume that the average viewer isn't fucking retarded.
posted by ethnomethodologist at 9:47 AM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


The weird thing is that the Mail service in Google Apps for business doesn't display ads - but this is, after all, sales.

Google Apps for business kinda sucks. As a free service, it's great, and I guess it's cheaper for businesses, but it still seems pretty beta to me.
posted by mrgrimm at 9:49 AM on July 29, 2011


>> And let's stop repeating the cute phrase "if you're not paying, you're the product" -- it's not that simple. You're receiving benefits from the product (making you a consumer of said product), but to fund the product, you become the audience for adverts.

> I don't really see a meaningful difference between the two. Would you prefer "your eyeballs are the product"?


The point is that you're engaged in a three-way trade of money for services, and picking some leg of the trade and calling it "the product" is pointlessly misleading. The ad-driven web model is: you look at ads for an advertiser; the advertiser gives money to the web developers; the web developers use the money to provide a service you find valuable.

If someone is lying to someone at some point during this trade, that's a problem -- and it may well be that some websites lie about what users are giving up in the trade. But "you're the product" isn't actually too helpful in discussing that.

It's kind of like saying "if you fix the other tenants' drains so you can live rent-free, you're not the customer, you're the product being sold!" Well, fine. What's your point?
posted by jhc at 9:50 AM on July 29, 2011


I just signed up for a free trial of office 360. It is actually pretty cool. What I got by default was what looks like a cleaned up version of OWA, Office Live, which includes online versions of Word,Excel,PowerPoint, and OneNote and Lync 2010 (which I have never even seen before). Plus a public sharepoint site. If I ran a small business I would consider using this. But then again I am biased, I might be the only one here who prefers Outlook to gmail
posted by Ad hominem at 9:56 AM on July 29, 2011


What ads? I couldn't recall any and logged into my Gmail account. I use Firefox and have nothing blocked and there aren't any ads.
posted by deborah at 10:12 AM on July 29, 2011


I might be the only one here who prefers Outlook to gmail

I'm with you. They both have pluses and minuses, but if forced to choose, I'd take Outlook.

That said, does anyone know of a good local client that plays well with gmail? I've tried Thunderbird, but didn't like it much.
posted by mrgrimm at 10:15 AM on July 29, 2011


I never bother to look at the ads on my Gmail. I'm too busy reading the actual messages and enjoying the wonderful features of my Gmail. The privacy thing is a pitiful angle to try to differentiate products in this day and age. This is an indication that Microsoft is getting pretty desperate. Why don't they talk about how their product is actually better? Because it isn't, oh, and you have to pay money for it.

I can ignore ads for free.
posted by thebestusernameever at 10:18 AM on July 29, 2011


Advertisers have to assume that the average viewer isn't fucking retarded.

And that's where they usually mess up.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 10:19 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


The point is that you're engaged in a three-way trade of money for services, and picking some leg of the trade and calling it "the product" is pointlessly misleading. The ad-driven web model is: you look at ads for an advertiser; the advertiser gives money to the web developers; the web developers use the money to provide a service you find valuable.

Well, it depends how you define customer. Is it someone who purchases or rents a product or service from a provider? In effect, one party of a contract?

Or is it anyone who who has a relationship with a supplier, no matter the reason? Under that definition, someone who gets spam, sorry, "Direct Marketing", is a 'customer' of the spammer, but I doubt many people would think of the relationship that way.

The word derives from "custom," meaning "habit"; a customer was someone who frequented a particular shop, who made it a habit to purchase goods of the sort the shop sold there rather than elsewhere, and with whom the shopkeeper had to maintain a relationship to keep his or her "custom," meaning expected purchases in the future.

When it comes to google, they are obviously the supplier; but the people they really care about - because that's where the paycheck is coming from - are advertisers. They are most definitely customers. So what does that make the users of google services? Eyeballs for adverts. Sure, google want to make good services that lots of people use, because then they get more eyeballs. But just compare the experience of trying to contact google support as an end-user of their products, vs contacting them as an ad-buyer, and you quickly realise where you fall in the pecking order.

Google, and other ad-funded services sure as hell aren't completely free, the price just isn't monetary. There are truly free things out there - such as libre-licenced software. The homily about 'if you're not paying, you're the product' is a trite, but mostly accurate way to remind people of the price they do pay for ad-funded products.

It's kind of like saying "if you fix the other tenants' drains so you can live rent-free, you're not the customer, you're the product being sold!" Well, fine. What's your point?

Well, to put this another way, you see an advert for "Free* apartment!". Great, you think. Then you read the small print. * (will be expected to maintain building, provide services for other residents, expected to be available as handyman 24/7/365, legally liable for quality of service)

Yeah, great. But not precisely free, is it.
posted by ArkhanJG at 10:21 AM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


I LOLled.

someone should do a spoof that says "a bitter solution for email" instead of a "better solution" at the end..
posted by 3mendo at 10:28 AM on July 29, 2011


What ads? I couldn't recall any and logged into my Gmail account. I use Firefox and have nothing blocked and there aren't any ads.

I believe they're not shown if you have 'web clips' turned off in your settings.
posted by ArkhanJG at 10:32 AM on July 29, 2011


Google ... Google use Java for phone apps, enough said.
First of all, IMO java haters are just idiots. But Android runs the Dalvik Virtual machine, not a JVM. Code gets written in the java language, but converted into Dalvik bytecode. But, you can use any language you want so long as you can produce java bytecode, that then is converted.

Or, if you want you can compile to ARM machine code using the NDK kit for faster execution.
There's a huge group of people that hate Apple also. If you're successful enough, it's going to happen. The difference is there's also a huge group of people that love apple. That's where Microsoft has failed. But if you look around, Microsoft fanboys are out there. They even have their own leader.
Lol, Microsoft fanboys are the most ridiculous ever. Bunch of VB.net developers with no lives.
posted by delmoi at 10:46 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


MrGrimm: I use Postbox, which kind of is Thunderbird, but tweaked in various ways. If you are on OS X, I've tried and hear good things about Sparrow, also, but I couldn't really get on with it enough to justify buying two email clients in one week. I may come back to it at some point...

Postbox has a trial version, and Sparrow a free Lite version in the App Store.
posted by running order squabble fest at 10:48 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Google Apps for business kinda sucks. As a free service, it's great, and I guess it's cheaper for businesses, but it still seems pretty beta to me.

I'm kind of biased, since as I mention I work with Google Apps, but for me at least this is the direct opposite of my experience. As an email user, I'm much happier with Apps than I was (am) with Exchange, GroupWise or Notes - all of which I've used or still have to use here and there. And not just a little happier - words fail to describe how much happier.

That said, does anyone know of a good local client that plays well with gmail? I've tried Thunderbird, but didn't like it much.

If you're using Google Apps for Business, you can use Outlook with the Google Apps Sync for Microsoft Outlook tool.
posted by me & my monkey at 11:29 AM on July 29, 2011


That said, does anyone know of a good local client that plays well with gmail?

Um, I've found Outlook 2010 accessing Gmail via IMAP to be wonderful.
posted by jkaczor at 11:30 AM on July 29, 2011


eoden writes "You joke, but I kinda want to switch my primary email client to pine. I really dug that client."

Clients available
for many platforms.

ethnomethodologist writes "Oh my God- you're serious.

"When I was four years old I was convinced that if my mom bought Mr Clean, a brawny, sexy bald man would appear in our kitchen, but by the time I was five, I figured out that what you see in ads (or these teambuilding promotions, what-the-fuck-ever) doesn't always represent reality. "Advertisers have to assume that the average viewer isn't fucking retarded."


That'd be a seriously invalid assumption. It is a common reaction for users to freak out when they become aware that mail administrators can read their email. Many of them assume we've got nothing better to do on a slow Tuesday then scan the mail spool for juicy messages.

When I really want to blow there paranoid little minds I point out that not only can I read their mail if I wanted (which I don't) but every single mail server administrator the mail goes through can also read their mail.
posted by Mitheral at 11:36 AM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


People just hate microsoft now. Nothing that microsoft does will change this fact.


They made their shoddy, derivative anti-competitive bed, now they can lay in it.
posted by Scoo at 11:44 AM on July 29, 2011 [4 favorites]


I'll say this for whoever cast that: they got someone who does good crazy eyes. And I am very fond of good crazy eyes, so there's that.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 12:01 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


This may not be the best time to mention this, but it is also probably not the worst time.
posted by running order squabble fest at 12:23 PM on July 29, 2011




PenDevil: "And Microsoft Hotmail.... doesn't show ads?"

It does, but Microsoft is not selling Hotmail to corporations, while Google is selling Gmail.

I think the question "who is more evil, Google or Microsoft?" could spark a long, healthy and valid debate, but the question "who is the biggest hypocrite?" has a clear winner, and that is Google. At least Microsoft is not pretending their raison d'etre is to make the world a better place.
posted by falameufilho at 6:52 PM on July 29, 2011


Microsoft is not selling Hotmail to corporations, while Google is selling Gmail.

No. Google is selling Google Apps for Business, which DOESN'T SHOW ADS. As mentioned a few times previously in the thread. The terms of service, etc, for Apps for Business are completely different from Google's free offerings. Apps for Business is FISMA certified. Google doesn't "read the mail" of Apps for Business customers any more than Microsoft reads the mail of Office 365 customers - both process the content of mail to the degree necessary to provide full-text indexing of that content.

As for Google's "raison d'etre": I don't think they claim that they exist to make the world a better place. They do seem to see their core business as aligned with the best interests of the public. If I have a better network connection, or a better browser, Google will indirectly benefit, so they'll invest in providing those things to me. Google is the only company I know that tells you how to move your data out of their own services.
posted by me & my monkey at 10:23 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


There is actually value in our loss of privacy, falameufilho. Zuckerberg & the google crew aren't simply wrong.

I'm an extremely strong proponent of anonymity, privacy, encryption, ad blocking, etc., well witness this rant of mine for example. And I'd never trust Google with real business emails myself.

Yet, I understand that we should be taking more privacy away from organizations and civil servants, elected officials, cops, etc. though. How many smart republicans have had their political careers destroyed by gay sex scandals? We'll eventually see an HBGary's deleted email records subpoenaed from Google's or whoever archives after the company had shredded their records. etc.

I would never wish to halt the brave new world that Google, Facebook, etc. are building. I simply wish to avert a totalitarian-esque phase that might accompany it.

Btw, Google does claim it's making the world a better place, like virtually all corporations. Yet, Google probably spends more man hours on idealism per day than Obama's administration will spend during his whole presidency. Digitizing books, hello?!?
posted by jeffburdges at 10:50 PM on July 29, 2011


I've never used a browser to check Gmail, it allows POP3 access from mail programs like Thunderbird.
posted by rubber duck at 5:01 AM on July 30, 2011


What is it about Microsoft that renders them, seemingly, incapable of producing promotional videos that aren't cringe-inducingly awkward, lame, and amateurish?

Might have something to do with their cringe-inducing CEO.
posted by flabdablet at 6:41 AM on July 30, 2011 [2 favorites]


I think someone should remix this. Add some more evil to it.
posted by Chorian at 11:59 PM on July 30, 2011


Cringe inducing CEO? Remix?

It's worth revisiting this legendary video.
posted by charlie don't surf at 8:42 AM on August 1, 2011


next
posted by jeffburdges at 9:42 AM on August 1, 2011 [1 favorite]


Bingle? Boogle?

None of it is any good.

Ging?
posted by flabdablet at 4:15 PM on August 1, 2011












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