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The Brute vs. How We Present Ourselves
July 29, 2011 12:39 PM   Subscribe

Before and after shots of joggers.
posted by Lutoslawski (172 comments total) 54 users marked this as a favorite

 
some of them look like they've been running a bit harder than others.
posted by fuzzypantalones at 12:42 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


cool, thanks for posting this.
posted by Outlawyr at 12:43 PM on July 29, 2011


random thoughts:
1) half those folks look like they spent time with Any Winehouse
2) The comedian routine that you never see anyone smiling when they are jogging (someone recently told me it was a Seinfeld sketch..)
posted by k5.user at 12:43 PM on July 29, 2011


French people wear a lot of black, is what I took away from that. Very cool though.
posted by penduluum at 12:44 PM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


I was intrigued by how some of the signs of exhaustion paralleled signs of age. The tired people looked years older than their coiffed and rested selves.

Not particularly inspiring for my afternoon run, but I'm off.
posted by itstheclamsname at 12:45 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Who goes jogging in a polo shirt?
posted by phunniemee at 12:45 PM on July 29, 2011 [4 favorites]


Clearly needs more HDR. You can never put enough of the HDR in your portraits.
posted by Justinian at 12:46 PM on July 29, 2011 [18 favorites]


In my previous job, my walks to work took me down 42nd Street from 5th Ave to 2nd Ave and, when the office moved, from Columbus Circle to 59th and Lex, down 59th. So, basically, I have seen and dodged a shitload of early-morning joggers over the last three years. And I have never, ever seen people more miserable than said joggers. The homeless village that emerges within Port Authority at 3 AM looked like Robin Hood and the Merry Men in comparison to these sad sweat-drenched fuckers, dressed in futuristic lycras and nylons, with their iPods glued firmly to their upper arms, dancing in place (synchronized, if couples) at stoplights.

Keep that heartrate up, you poor bastards.
posted by griphus at 12:46 PM on July 29, 2011 [28 favorites]


Who goes jogging in a polo shirt?

I had the same thought, except with "Wayfarers" where "polo shirt" is.
posted by penduluum at 12:47 PM on July 29, 2011


The pictures look... weird. Kind of CG or something.
posted by codswallop at 12:47 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


I never would have guessed that runners (not joggers) look different after taking a shower. Geez.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:49 PM on July 29, 2011 [3 favorites]


Parisiennes, Je t'aime tellement.
posted by Bora Horza Gobuchul at 12:50 PM on July 29, 2011


Before and after what, exactly?
posted by chavenet at 12:51 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


I smile when I run all the time.
posted by OmieWise at 12:51 PM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


We get it...French people are slim, stylish dressers who take care of themselves through casual exercise. Way to rub it in!

Way cool idea, though.
posted by stroke_count at 12:51 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


It's no Faces of Meth.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 12:51 PM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


Very cool but somehow reminiscent of this.
posted by Betty Tyranny at 12:51 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Who goes jogging in a polo shirt?

Rich people. A polo shirt is the least dressed you can get.
posted by smackfu at 12:51 PM on July 29, 2011 [4 favorites]


Haha! Great minds...
posted by Betty Tyranny at 12:52 PM on July 29, 2011


These pictures remind me of these early backstage photos of Nirvana that the band said made them look like mutants.
posted by Beardman at 12:52 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Almost like how people look after energetic sex, sweaty, relieved and grounded. In this case there's also seriousness.
posted by nickyskye at 12:53 PM on July 29, 2011 [9 favorites]


The runners I know would not ever stop because someone stopped them to ask a favor. They would continue on, ignoring the intruder unless the person seemed in real need.
posted by Postroad at 12:54 PM on July 29, 2011 [7 favorites]


Isn't this more like After and Later?
posted by dhartung at 12:55 PM on July 29, 2011 [17 favorites]


More than anything else, these pictures made me think about how fucked up it is that women wear so much makeup. Some of them don't even look like the same person, and I think the sweaty version looks better in most cases than the makeupped-all-to-hell look.
posted by something something at 12:56 PM on July 29, 2011 [26 favorites]


Before and after what, exactly?

From the looks of some of them, I'd say a severe round of face slapping.
posted by tommasz at 12:57 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Reminds me of Before and After Boxers
posted by Ideal Impulse at 12:57 PM on July 29, 2011


Women with long hair who run with that long hair sweaty and unbound baffle me. I stick my hair on top of my head like a demented Snork and it is cool and lovely and I certainly look like less of a haggard sweaty hobo than they do.
posted by elizardbits at 12:59 PM on July 29, 2011 [14 favorites]


I look down on joggers when coasting downhill on my bike. Shit looks painful and unnatural. Plus "hey, I'm going to run for 5 miles, not enjoy any part of it, and eventually end up back where I started!" just sounds so counterproductive.
posted by Brocktoon at 12:59 PM on July 29, 2011


As Edward Abbey said, joggers should be hooked up to treadmills and forced to generate electricity. This would have the bonus of getting them the hell off the sidewalk.
posted by jonmc at 1:01 PM on July 29, 2011 [21 favorites]


I'm still always a bit amazed that something that looks so painful is actually good for you. It's one of the wonders of the human body that taxing it, sometimes severely, often makes it stronger.
posted by SpacemanStix at 1:01 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Running is unnatural? What?
posted by cashman at 1:02 PM on July 29, 2011 [7 favorites]


Brocktoon, what kind of cyclist are you? COASTING downhill? That is when you spin out on your highest gear! Don't tell me you are one of those POSERS who have their handlebars no lower than 10 inches under the saddle? Don't tell me you are one of those LOSERS who has time to look at the landscape because they are not obsessively checking their pulse meter, speed meter, cadence meter and $600 power meter?

Brocktoon, you give all real cyclists a bad name.
posted by Ayn Rand and God at 1:03 PM on July 29, 2011 [11 favorites]


Running is unnatural? What?

No... beauty, at least by today's standards is....
posted by Debaser626 at 1:03 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Hmm. Wish the photos weren't so processed. The project is sort of interesting but everyone looks really unnatural in a distracting way.
posted by oneirodynia at 1:03 PM on July 29, 2011 [5 favorites]


THAT BOW TIE OMFG
posted by everichon at 1:04 PM on July 29, 2011 [20 favorites]


I recognize the sort of teeth-showing grimace of exertion that so closely resembles violent anger, here. I think that's what a lot of the comments above are describing. I know I've been running and showing that face while feeling really good, inside.
posted by rusty at 1:04 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]



1) half those folks look like they spent time with Any Winehouse

Too soon, really.
posted by tomswift at 1:06 PM on July 29, 2011 [4 favorites]


"I wanted to show the difference between our natural and brute side versus how we represent ourselves to society," Goldberger tells us. "The difference was very surprising."

Pricisamente. Each of these folks look so much more appealing (attractive, approachable, likeable, etc) in their "after" pictures than in their "later" pictures-- by an order of magnitude.
posted by herbplarfegan at 1:07 PM on July 29, 2011 [3 favorites]


I smile when I run all the time.

Same here. My mind goes wandering, and I start to think about how good I have it that I can jog. I got comfortable shoes on my feet, two legs, a heart and lungs that work, and the goal of a nice shower in a comfortable home when I'm done. I pass by fellow joggers, bikers, pedestrians. Old people, young people, beautiful people.

I think about how when I was younger, I wanted to be financially stable enough to not have to work all the time so that I could go jogging, and now that I am, I'm living out one of my dreams.

I think about how I was so poor when I was younger and now I'm not.

I think about that horrible girl in college who destroyed me inside and how I got away from her, and how 12 years later she's probably as miserable as she was back then, but I am not.

I think about the time when I worked 16-hour days at that restaurant with the boss stealing money from right under my eyes and me not being able to do anything about it because I needed the cash so badly and I was working illegaly, and compare it to my luxurious conditions now.

I think about the bus pass in my pocket and how if I wanted to right now, I could stop right where I am, and take the bus home.

I think about dinner and how I can afford it. And how much I love eating. How much I eating. And then I think about a restaurant I would like to go to and make plans right there to go.

I think about the dozens of other countries where I could be living that are war torn. I think about the dozens of medical conditions, psychological or spiritual conditions that I could have but don't, that prevent me from jogging.

I can't help but smile.

posted by bitteroldman at 1:07 PM on July 29, 2011 [105 favorites]


No... beauty, at least by today's standards is....

Yesterday's standards weren't much better.
posted by griphus at 1:07 PM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


Bow Tie Man actually looks younger right after a jog, which is something I hate to say because, you know, bow ties are cool.
posted by katillathehun at 1:08 PM on July 29, 2011 [3 favorites]


Professor Hathaway: You still run?

Chris Knight: Only when chased.

posted by Knappster at 1:08 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


I smile when I run all the time.

If it's raining out, I will be smiling like an utter jackass, because 01) I like puddles and splashing and 02) everyone else seems so irritated, which delights me.
posted by elizardbits at 1:09 PM on July 29, 2011 [18 favorites]


See also: Divers faces while diving.

Some things just weren't meant to be shot in telephoto.
posted by schmod at 1:09 PM on July 29, 2011


Parisians look more stylish when they're jogging than I do when I go out to dinner.
posted by octothorpe at 1:12 PM on July 29, 2011 [4 favorites]


I can't help but smile.

And now, I can't. Thank you for sharing that.
posted by cashman at 1:14 PM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


There's something incredibly satisfying about these photos. I'm not sure what it is. Maybe just that the persons humanity isn't so diffused by the game face and the proper grooming, and whatnot, don't really know, but I could look at this stuff all day. The tired faces are more attractive BTW, it would seem the normal shots are more mask-like and contrived.

Also, something Francis Bacon portrait-like.
posted by Skygazer at 1:14 PM on July 29, 2011


So all of these people were mugged?
posted by Eideteker at 1:17 PM on July 29, 2011 [3 favorites]


Violence? Anger? The exhausted ones all look way more attractive and sexy than the tricked out posed ones.
posted by stonepharisee at 1:19 PM on July 29, 2011


(Nice post!) Yea, though I jogged through the uncanny valley , etc.
posted by HLD at 1:21 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


The first thing that I noticed, strangely, was how the women's lips seemed to be much more plumped up and more attractive post-jogging.

Think how much money Lisa Rinna could have saved.
posted by HeyAllie at 1:23 PM on July 29, 2011


Eponisterical?
posted by postel's law at 1:24 PM on July 29, 2011


Why do so many of them look vaguely like Jocelyn Wildenstein?
posted by fleetmouse at 1:27 PM on July 29, 2011


After moving to Louisiana, this is how I look all the time.
posted by pantsonfire at 1:32 PM on July 29, 2011 [9 favorites]


There is a difference between putting forth effort and being unhappy. Running, can often be difficult and put quite a strain on your body (not always of course). So, it takes quite a bit of effort, and runners faces and body language reflect that.

That doesn't mean they are unhappy.

I feel great when I've completed a run, the more strenuous the run the better (and happier) I feel.
posted by oddman at 1:37 PM on July 29, 2011 [9 favorites]


the 5th one down has the worst after hair. Is that in style? it's awful.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 1:41 PM on July 29, 2011


SpacemanStix: Well, not to sound like a masochist, but I honestly and truly believe the body and the mind is designed to undergo a certain amount of tolerable and beneficial pain every day. I'm not sure how, but it seems to regulate the nervous system and recalibrate all sorts of functions, high and low.

And if that doesn't happen and the get a surfeit of comfort the body sorta goes a bit whack and the constant comfort itself becomes a sort of pain, but not a good pain, but a regressive pain and it leads to sickness, like badass functions breaking down, and cancer sickness from the toxins that collect from the body not moving them back the fuck out of the system, both in the corpus and the mind...

Something like that. And I say that as someone who is trying to be more active and just hitting wall after wall of laziness...

Right. I'm going to the park and walking really really really fast...
posted by Skygazer at 1:44 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Oh sorry SpaceManStix my comment was in response to your comment where you said: I'm still always a bit amazed that something that looks so painful is actually good for you. It's one of the wonders of the human body that taxing it, sometimes severely, often makes it stronger.
posted by Skygazer at 1:46 PM on July 29, 2011


There is a difference between putting forth effort and being unhappy.

Exactly. I don't see a lot of smiles on people playing sports either while they're exerting themselves, but they're doing something they love and having fun. It's concentration and exertion, not misery.
posted by Hoopo at 1:46 PM on July 29, 2011


First of - French people jog!?!?! Secondly - I would have loved to seen a cigarette butt hanging out someone's gasping face. I know - it's a cheap stereotype - but I'm a cheap bastard.
posted by helmutdog at 1:50 PM on July 29, 2011 [3 favorites]


Keep that heartrate up, you poor bastards.

Sometimes it's all for the endorphin high 20 minutes later. But if you're running into a brisk cold breeze and it's starting to sprinkle and you're watching a little squall cross the bay in the afternoon? It's a joy to run into it headlong.
posted by small_ruminant at 1:52 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Ah, I'm just envious. I never enjoyed the activity of running as much as cycling or even just long walks, but I remember that feeling at the end, the happy exhaustion, your mind emptied out, the rush of endorphines, and there's nothing like it. (Ok maybe lots of things almost like it, but not the same.) I recognise that on these faces, there is that look of being tired and out of breath, but also that release, the half-closed eyes, the face muscles so relaxed they look almost like they're sagging. It may not look pretty but it feels great. Else, well, no one would be doing it, would they? People may start running because they've been told it's good for them but those who stick with it are doing it because they get addicted to that feeling, as well as enjoy the health benefits, those take a while to build up anyway. The feeling is the immediate reward.

Now I can't run anymore, after a bad knee injury (not related - road accident) running is completely out of the question for me forever, bye bye, so I do miss it. When I see people jogging it so makes me wish I was able to do that even just once again. Grrrr.

Everyone who has healthy intact knees, with all your lovely bones and menisci and cartilage and ligaments in place: use them and appreciate them! You lucky bastards!
posted by bitteschoen at 1:54 PM on July 29, 2011 [3 favorites]


If I look horrible while I'm running, it's because I'm sweating out the bad awful stuff. When I look radiant afterward, it's because that bad stuff is all washed off and gone for the day.
posted by naju at 1:57 PM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


"hey, I'm going to run for 5 miles, not enjoy any part of it, and eventually end up back where I started!"

What makes you think we're not enjoying it?

There's a lot of projection in this thread. "Miserable sad sweat-drenched fuckers" indeed. I'm running for me; it's not my job to smile at you.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 2:02 PM on July 29, 2011 [31 favorites]


This thread reminds me that I wish I could run. When I do I get asthma and various other parts of me put on the "places you forgot could hurt" show. Makes me saddish.
posted by wowbobwow at 2:07 PM on July 29, 2011


Those of you who think runners' faces display misery may also be slightly dismayed to discover what you look like during sexual intercourse.
posted by Greg Nog at 2:08 PM on July 29, 2011 [47 favorites]


Greg Nog is watching your amorous activities!
posted by Horselover Phattie at 2:10 PM on July 29, 2011 [3 favorites]


In most cases, the faces of the joggers look lively and human. The carefully packaged "Later" photos downright creepy in how inhuman they look.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:12 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


...what you look like during sexual intercourse.

The world-turning majesty and concentration of a Greek god passing a stone.
posted by griphus at 2:20 PM on July 29, 2011 [13 favorites]


A couple of years ago I was diagnosed with a heart condition that could have disabled me to the point that I wouldn't be able to walk across the room without sitting down to rest. Thanks to good medical care, careful diet, exercise and (very probably) dumb luck, I've done very well with it thus far.

That look of suffering or misery or whatever it is that you see on my face? Trust that my spirit is absolutely singing on the inside.

So. Much. Gratitude.
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 2:30 PM on July 29, 2011 [13 favorites]


This would have the bonus of getting them the hell off the sidewalk.

I'd be glad if it just got them off the street. I mean, wtf is with that, anyhow?

Brocktoon, you give all real cyclists a bad name.

Fuck that. That's why I'm not a cyclist. I'm just a bike rider.


I was intrigued by how some of the signs of exhaustion paralleled signs of age. The tired people looked years older than their coiffed and rested selves.


Seriously, though, I thought this, too. Additionally, I kind of think the older women looked, well, maybe not younger, but maybe more vivacious. These were neat pics.
posted by 2N2222 at 2:32 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


I'd be glad if it just got them off the street. I mean, wtf is with that, anyhow?

Running on asphalt is easier on the knees than running on concrete sidewalks.
posted by deanc at 2:34 PM on July 29, 2011 [7 favorites]


Before : after - laid : laid
posted by Flashman at 2:36 PM on July 29, 2011


I loved this! The faces of the runners look so real! I'm always interested in seeing what real beautiful people look like when they don't have their makeup on and their hair done and all of that - because I see myself in that state and it is sometimes hard for me to forget it when I usually only see others in their best states.

That said, the lighting is not the same. The runners' lighting is much more harsh from the left than on the "Later" pictures.
posted by jillithd at 2:36 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Those of you who think runners' faces display misery may also be slightly dismayed to discover what you look like during sexual intercourse.

You know, you think having sex on a bathroom counter is a perfectly acceptable choice until you open your eyes and realize there's a mirror there and that you're having sex while looking at yourself having sex.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 2:44 PM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


I agree about the processing and the loose long hair (high ponytails swing like built-in neck fans!), but damn, the running photos are feral and sexy in a way the groomed ones just couldn't be.

Faces of Meth doesn't do it for me in the same way, I promise.
posted by carbide at 2:46 PM on July 29, 2011


Brocktoon, you give all real cyclists a bad name.

By the tone of your comments, I can tell you must be jogging right now. And yup, I coast down this hill twice a day. I don't see many joggers on it (they turn into walkers halfway up), and the few that I do are not smiling at any point, up or down.
posted by Brocktoon at 2:51 PM on July 29, 2011


I started running seriously in high school, the summer after Grade 11. I was a little overweight, and a little underachieving in school, and not exactly super confident in myself. After a few unkind comments that summer I decided to do something about it. Running became central to that renewed focus. I soon found I had a bit of a talent for it, and through my Grade 12 year I found that one focus led to another - I started caring more about school too. Running became a source of confidence in myself that I never had before. I set the school record in the fitness run we had to do in phys-ed, and thereafter I was known as one of 'the athletes'. During a very impressionable part of my life running became central to my identity. It was (and 20 years later still is) the thing that grounds me and makes me feel like myself. I don't feel like 'me' unless I'm running.

I since went on to be an All-Canadian distance runner at university, represent BC numerous times, and come dangerously close to running for my country. I won my hometown's road race - something I take extremely great pride in.

Do not diminish running, or runners. I would be quite lost without it.
posted by jimmythefish at 2:52 PM on July 29, 2011 [23 favorites]


I've always wondered when I see a cute girl what she might look like in the aftermath of a zombie apocalypse (her score on this is part of how I rank her potential girlfriend potential) and now I have a pretty good way to find out... Now if only I could convince girls to pose for me after jogging several miles...
posted by farmersckn at 2:59 PM on July 29, 2011


runners (not joggers)

I'm curious about this distinction. I was discussing it with someone just the other day. What's the difference between a jogger and a runner, aside from the word "jogging" having been popular 30 years ago and the term "running" being popular today?
posted by The World Famous at 3:04 PM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


Why do all these pictures give me an "uncanny valley" creepyvibe? Something to do with the lightning, I guess?
posted by curious nu at 3:10 PM on July 29, 2011


Joggers wear feathered caps, runners don't.
posted by TheRedArmy at 3:15 PM on July 29, 2011


Joggers are exercising; runners are training.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 3:16 PM on July 29, 2011


I'm curious about this distinction. I was discussing it with someone just the other day. What's the difference between a jogger and a runner, aside from the word "jogging" having been popular 30 years ago and the term "running" being popular today?

Joggers are slower and chilled out, runners are faster and have heart rate monitors and whatnot thus think they are SERIOUS BUSINESS (and I say this as a fellow runner, but one who stopped to hold open a gate for an old woman two runners had already passed. Seriously.).
posted by jaduncan at 3:21 PM on July 29, 2011


Secondly - I would have loved to seen a cigarette butt hanging out someone's gasping face.

You should have been in my back yard this morning, then. First thing I did after a personal-record-pace 7.5-mile run (well, second thing, after cooling down with about 10 minutes of stretching) was sit in the sun and relax with a cup of coffee and a cigarette. I earn my cigarettes, motherfucker.
posted by dersins at 3:26 PM on July 29, 2011 [10 favorites]


The difference is so poorly defined/agreed upon that I think you can use them interchangeably.
posted by Pruitt-Igoe at 3:30 PM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


I love running, especially when it's blisteringly hot and miserable, and here in the sorta-south, we've had plenty of it lately. Thing is I AM sweaty, hot, miserable, and i feel like i'm going to die or puke half the time. It doesn't really make a lot of sense on the face of it, but sorta like the whole "headlights on when you turn your wipers on", it works as part of a bigger picture. I don't love running because my feet and legs and knees hurt, dodging traffic, and all that, it comes from the feeling of "wait a minute, wasn't that hill steeper yesterday?"
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 3:36 PM on July 29, 2011 [4 favorites]


Joggers are slower and chilled out, runners are faster and have heart rate monitors and whatnot thus think they are SERIOUS BUSINESS (and I say this as a fellow runner, but one who stopped to hold open a gate for an old woman two runners had already passed. Seriously.).

So, exactly how fast do I have to go to be running as opposed to jogging? And how serious do I have to be in order to be running as opposed to jogging?

Is the seriousness requirement mandatory? If so, does that render it impossible to discern whether someone is running or merely jogging without talking to them for a while about it?

If I decide to go running, but I'm insufficiently serious, am I lying when I tell people I'm going running?

If I go running but my speed varies from just barely slower than a run to just barely faster than a jog, how should I characterize my activity if asked later by a colleague? Should I correctly say that I went both running and jogging?

It's all so confusing.
posted by The World Famous at 3:39 PM on July 29, 2011


You sound like a jogger to me.
posted by TheRedArmy at 3:40 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


You sound like a jogger to me.

Well, sure. I sound like a jogger. But that doesn't help me determine whether, at any given moment, I am running or jogging. It's very important to me, as someone who sounds like a jogger, to know exactly what the difference is between running and jogging, so that I don't accidentally run when I'm trying to jog.
posted by The World Famous at 3:45 PM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


Pruitt-Igoe: "The difference is so poorly defined/agreed upon that I think you can use them interchangeably."

Let's try that:

"Runners have a slower pace and are mostly trying to lose weight, while a jogger is faster, and likely already at their target weight and training for endurance or speed."
posted by idiopath at 3:45 PM on July 29, 2011


"an entry blank."
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 3:46 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


The difference between jogging and running becomes very evident when you are being chased by mountain lion.
posted by found missing at 3:56 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Photographic proof that jogging is bad for you. Thank the FSM for my recliner with built in heat and massage, I'm going to live forever!
posted by MikeMc at 3:57 PM on July 29, 2011


I can't even believe some of you folks are giving people grief for being active and getting some exercise or, at least, making fun of them. You know what looks sad? People in their 40s or 50s getting winded as they walk up half a flight of stairs because they haven't gotten any real physical exercise since 7th grade gym class. I'm not a super-athlete but using my body throughout its performance envelope is a joy and one of the greatest things about being alive. You go, Mr. Bow-Tie Guy and Mrs. Bald Woman.
posted by LastOfHisKind at 3:57 PM on July 29, 2011 [15 favorites]


Did you miss the part where we were also making fun of: ourselves; each other; basically everything on earth ever?

but srsly that bow tie.
posted by elizardbits at 4:03 PM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


"Runners have a slower pace and are mostly trying to lose weight, while a jogger is faster, and likely already at their target weight and training for endurance or speed."

Huh? I always said the opposite. Runners are serious; joggers are casual.

For example:

My ex- could maintain a 6 minute mile indefinitely (ok, well, for an hour or so). She would run every day, between 45 minutes to an hour and a half, rain or shine. She had a full scholarship in college for outdoor & indoor track and cross-country, and won the national championship in her home country. She is a "runner".

Conversely, I'm doing well to maintain an 8 minute mile for 3 miles. I am a jogger.
posted by LordSludge at 4:07 PM on July 29, 2011


Sexy.
posted by The Giant Squid at 4:12 PM on July 29, 2011


My ex- could maintain a 6 minute mile indefinitely (ok, well, for an hour or so). She would run every day, between 45 minutes to an hour and a half, rain or shine. She had a full scholarship in college for outdoor & indoor track and cross-country, and won the national championship in her home country. She is a "runner".

Conversely, I'm doing well to maintain an 8 minute mile for 3 miles. I am a jogger.


Ok. Suppose that you and she are running/jogging together. You and she are moving at the same pace, right next to each other. You do this for a mile. Are you both running, both jogging, or are you, a jogger, jogging while she, a runner, is running, regardless of your pace? At what point does what you're doing constitute "running" and at what point does what she's doing constitute "jogging"?
posted by The World Famous at 4:14 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Justinian: Clearly needs more HDR. You can never put enough of the HDR in your portraits.

codswallop: The pictures look... weird. Kind of CG or something.

It's the studio lighting that is providing an unnatural glow from multiple angles, the fact everyone is posed in similar ways after and later, and that everything is in earth tones. EVERYTHING. Where is the purple, blue or green? WHY SO DAMNED TAN? Even the backdrop is a weird sandy color. WHY?

Anyway, taking pictures of people as they're sitting (or standing still) after they just sprinted sets up things for odd non-poses. Many people appear to be gasping, or breathing heavily through their mouths. Running is not about standing still - it's about moving. So pictures of people standing still after running won't catch them on their high.
posted by filthy light thief at 4:17 PM on July 29, 2011 [3 favorites]


Ok. Suppose that you and she are running/jogging together. You and she are moving at the same pace, right next to each other. You do this for a mile. Are you both running, both jogging, or are you, a jogger, jogging while she, a runner, is running, regardless of your pace? At what point does what you're doing constitute "running" and at what point does what she's doing constitute "jogging"?

I see runner vs. jogger as a classification of ability level. I cannot maintain her pace for a mile, not even close. I can out-sprint her for 400m or so, break even for 800m, and vomit at 1000m. I have neither the conditioning nor the technique to run at that level -- yes, there's a fair amount of technique for running at a competitive level.

She is a runner; I am a jogger. Runners are serious, hard-core, competitive; joggers are more... recreational.
posted by LordSludge at 4:23 PM on July 29, 2011


I did this same thing once.
posted by saladin at 4:24 PM on July 29, 2011


Runners are serious, hard-core, competitive; joggers are more... recreational.

So if I see someone jogging/running on the side of the road, it's impossible to know whether they are jogging or running?
posted by The World Famous at 4:29 PM on July 29, 2011


Who goes jogging in a polo shirt?

He couldn't just throw on his Black Dog t-shirt? I know that guy has one.
posted by Ad hominem at 4:33 PM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


A few of these people look like they just came from a round of vigourous sex.
posted by bwg at 4:34 PM on July 29, 2011


So if I see someone jogging/running on the side of the road, it's impossible to know whether they are jogging or running?

No, they are clearly jogging. But it's impossible to know if they are a jogger (i.e., they are going as fast as they can) or they are a runner (they could run flat out for 10 miles).

If i build you a shelf, you don't know whether I am a master builder or not. But just because I build a shelf, that doesn't make me a hobby carpenter.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:36 PM on July 29, 2011


Joggers are going as fast as they can?
posted by found missing at 4:41 PM on July 29, 2011


If i build you a shelf, you don't know whether I am a master builder or not. But just because I build a shelf, that doesn't make me a hobby carpenter.

I had no idea when I posted this that it would, after 100+ comments, take a uniquely and interestingly epistemological turn.
posted by Lutoslawski at 4:42 PM on July 29, 2011 [3 favorites]


If I catch you a fish, you don't know whether I am a master baiter or not.
posted by found missing at 4:43 PM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


No, they are clearly jogging.

Wait. So, jogging, as a physical activity, is what both runners and joggers do. But one is a "runner" if that person is capable of a certain degree of running prowess?

And one should never say "I'm going running" unless one intends to run flat out?

Is it, then, incorrect to say that someone is going to "run a marathon" when, in reality, almost everyone merely jogs a marathon?
posted by The World Famous at 4:44 PM on July 29, 2011


Joggers are going as fast as they can?

Man, I don't know. I can't run or jog worth a damn. My point was, someone's ability, which is the criteria which we seem to be using to award the title 'runner' or 'jogger', is not necessarily apparent from what they are doing when you are observing them.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:45 PM on July 29, 2011


So if I see someone jogging/running on the side of the road, it's impossible to know whether they are jogging or running?

It might be impossible for you or me to tell. But another runner can probably tell. There are nuances to high-level running technique that aren't readily apparent to casual joggers.

But on the extremes, you can tell: If the person is flailing from side to side, wasting lots of energy, and looks like they are about to die, they're a jogger. If their technique is smooth efficient and they're flat hauling ass with no sign of slowing, they're probably a runner.
posted by LordSludge at 4:46 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


I think if you're going as fast as you can, you might be a runner.
posted by found missing at 4:46 PM on July 29, 2011


a jogger is a person who runs at a jog trot over some distance for exercise, usually regularly.
a runner is a person or vessel engaged in smuggling

I doubt that guy on the side of the road is a runner, but you never really know for sure
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 4:49 PM on July 29, 2011 [4 favorites]


You might be a jogger if... your front porch collapses and four dogs git killed.
posted by found missing at 4:50 PM on July 29, 2011 [4 favorites]


Wait. So, jogging, as a physical activity, is what both runners and joggers do. But one is a "runner" if that person is capable of a certain degree of running prowess?

That seems to be the consensus, and it's the way that I read the thread. Ultimately, it's a matter of slang, convention and maybe even terms of art. Such things are always a bit grey.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:50 PM on July 29, 2011


I doubt that guy on the side of the road is a runner, but you never really know for sure

Why do you doubt that they guy on the side of the road is a runner? I said nothing about any of that guy's attributes (including whether he or she is a guy). Do you think runners are for some reason less likely than joggers to be seen jogging on the side of the road?

Frankly, I think the whole "no, I'm going running, not jogging, because I'm a runner, not a jogger" thing is pretentious.
posted by The World Famous at 4:53 PM on July 29, 2011


Do not mock the bow tie. That bow tie is fucking awesome, and that man is fucking working that fucking bow tie.
posted by ook at 4:53 PM on July 29, 2011 [9 favorites]


Running is what athletes do. Jogging is what the rest of us do.

FWIW, I often catch myself, "I'm going for a run -- well, a jog -- and will be back in half an hour." I make the distinction (and many competitive runners make the distinction), because what I do and what high-level runners do is different.

If it bothers you to make that distinction, then don't.
posted by LordSludge at 4:55 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


A few of these people look like they just came from a round of vigourous sex.

But were they smiling during it?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:55 PM on July 29, 2011


So, Running is like vigorous sex and jogging is like casual sex?
posted by Hicksu at 4:57 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Running is what athletes do. Jogging is what the rest of us do.

What does that even mean?
posted by The World Famous at 5:01 PM on July 29, 2011


Personally, I've always liked this distinction between running and jogging.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 5:02 PM on July 29, 2011


The World Famous: Why do you doubt that they guy on the side of the road is a runner?

I think you may have missed the part of my post that defined a runner as "a person or vessel engaged in smuggling". It was a poor joke, but a joke nonetheless.
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 5:02 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Relevant?
posted by Lutoslawski at 5:06 PM on July 29, 2011


Personally, I've always liked this distinction between running and jogging.

But do we want to reduce all of our definitions to a sort of relativism? WHO SHALL WRITE A DISSERTATION ON THIS.
posted by Lutoslawski at 5:08 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Running is what athletes do. Jogging is what the rest of us do.

What does that even mean?


You seem to be very bothered that there exist two words for this activity. Through extensive questioning you have discovered that the overlap between the terms is disputed and ambiguous, and yet they both still exist. If your goal is to get people to stop using one or the other I'm afraid you'll be disappointed.

The responses you've been getting here suggest that the consensus on current usage is that "running" is a more serious or directed activity, probably performed at a higher level, whereas "jogging" is more casual or recreational. If you feel that you or your hypothetical person on the side of the road were unfairly characterized as joggers or "non-athletes" then chalk it up to the big baggy mystery that is the English language.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 5:13 PM on July 29, 2011 [4 favorites]


These shots remind me of the CSS video for Alala (skip to 2:22).
posted by Bighappyfunhouse at 5:17 PM on July 29, 2011


This is really advanced, but try it on for size: Perhaps some people are both running and jogging. Simultaneously!
posted by mantecol at 5:24 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


extensive questioning

For reals. Why is it such a big deal to you?
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 5:25 PM on July 29, 2011


Is it, then, incorrect to say that someone is going to "run a marathon" when, in reality, almost everyone merely jogs a marathon?

Also: Dude. One does not "merely jog" a marathon.

Run it at a mere jog, maybe.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 5:30 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


You know, I'm sure I never look happy when I'm running, but I feel amazing.

I've been told I look good in a suit, but I always feel stupid.

So maybe I've just learned a valuable lesson about outward appearance. Or maybe I just look like crap when I'm running.
posted by xingcat at 5:31 PM on July 29, 2011


Why do you jog your memory, but get the runs?
posted by found missing at 5:32 PM on July 29, 2011 [3 favorites]


WHO SHALL WRITE A DISSERTATION ON THIS.

I am pretty sure there are many of us who are already ABD without this added burden kthx.
posted by elizardbits at 5:35 PM on July 29, 2011


More than anything else, these pictures made me think about how fucked up it is that women wear so much makeup. Some of them don't even look like the same person, and I think the sweaty version looks better in most cases than the makeupped-all-to-hell look.

Lady number 18 doesn't even bother having hair on her head, and that just grows there. Do you think she would go to the trouble of putting paint on her face if it wasn't what she wanted? It may be fucked up that certain women are obliged to wear makeup, and it may be fucked up that many women feel that they are obliged to wear makeup, but it is certainly not fucked up that women wear "so much" makeup in general, as long as they choose it and like it, which many of us do. Progressive types: your politics don't make your unsolicited criticisms of women's aesthetic choices any more enlightened than they would be coming from fundamentalist weirdos, and it should tell you something that they are usually just as happy as you to offer them.
posted by two or three cars parked under the stars at 5:50 PM on July 29, 2011 [15 favorites]


Jogging is just slow running.
posted by Joe Chip at 6:06 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Jogging is just slow running.

Singing is just slow talking.
posted by Hicksu at 6:23 PM on July 29, 2011


I definitely run, not jog. For me, jogging is an activity that could be substituted by a bike ride, a swim, some time on the rower or what-have-you. It is raising your heart rate for a period of time and then stopping.

For me, nothing can substitute for a run. It is not the presence or absence of heart rate monitors, a particular pace, or clothing, water bottles, location etc. It is both a verb and a form of ideology. You don't "go for a jog". You jog. Running exists outside itself (for me).

A runner believes in running. They think about it when they're doing it, and they think about it when they're not doing it, also. It's the best meditation I can get, and I don't do it merely to get fit, get fast, whatever. I do it because I feel like I'm connecting with something, in myself, in the world, something real that I don't see a lot of my in abstract corporate job; but I saw a lot of it as a child growing up in the country.

It reconnects me with my body, reminds me of my limits, and preaches a sermon of self-control that is subtle and wise. You can't really "jog" too hard. If you run too hard, though, something will break, and you will be sidelined for a day, a month, even a year. And very sad. And the temptation to run too hard is omnipresent because the feeling is unbeatable. You feel strong, invincible, and hard. Those photos couldn't capture the corona burning off me after a good run. So every run becomes an exercise in self-control; of understanding what you have, and then appreciating it.

Running has made me a better person, no doubt. It makes me more patient, more able to positively respond to the chronic pain I sometimes have due to illness in my life. Perhaps it's even reduced somewhat because I certainly don't suffer like I used to. It helps me to sleep better, think better, and - gloriously - eat worse.

When I see another runner (and you can pick em, for sure) I feel like a mason or something. A secret club that certainly doesn't depend on speed or ability, but on outlook, on vista or virtue or something. When I'm out on the path or the treadmill I feel like I have comrades with me, striving for the same thing I am. It's a nice feeling to me.

I could continue waxing lyrical, but that's a snapshot of some of what running means to me. I cannot countenance that a jog could inspire the same. I'm a runner.
posted by smoke at 6:29 PM on July 29, 2011 [7 favorites]


Also: Dude. One does not "merely jog" a marathon.

One does not simply jog into Mordor!
posted by villanelles at dawn at 6:34 PM on July 29, 2011 [8 favorites]


More than anything else, these pictures made me think about how fucked up it is that women wear so much makeup. Some of them don't even look like the same person, and I think the sweaty version looks better in most cases than the makeupped-all-to-hell look.

At least 8 of the women are wearing makeup in the jogging pic. I would hardly call the afters makeupped-all-to-hell either; with respect, you really haven't seen makeupped-all-to-hell if you're equating it to these pictures. Mostly it looks like a professional came in to do them all. I can't believe that many different women would all wear the same shades and all groom their brows so well.
posted by oneirodynia at 6:43 PM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


I only run if something really scary is chasing me. And the before pictures look like they just slammed the door on a monster.

I was right!
posted by Splunge at 7:02 PM on July 29, 2011


Especially this one. The pic on the left, at first, looked like she had a bad scar on her face. Just sweat. Whew.
posted by Splunge at 7:06 PM on July 29, 2011


Singing is just slow talking.

But jogging really is slow running. Singing CAN be slow talking but it's not relegated to that.
posted by zephyr_words at 7:25 PM on July 29, 2011


This is really cool.
posted by arnicae at 7:50 PM on July 29, 2011


One of the greatest days of my life was the day I ran my Marine recruiter into the ground...he gave up, I kept going. It was an incredible moment - probably the greatest of my 17 year old life.

Blew out my knee three days later. Was never able to really run well after that.

But I still like to run.
posted by Thistledown at 8:00 PM on July 29, 2011


I don't see a huge difference between the portraits - nothing that a shower and a change of clothes can't cure.
posted by Miko at 8:43 PM on July 29, 2011


Running is unnatural? What?

Jogging is actually unnatural. If you don't wear the right shoes it will fuck you up. Man was meant to sprint, on occasion, and otherwise walk.
posted by delmoi at 9:52 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


Nobody has mentioned this, but the site says the people were photographed after they sprinted (as per the photographer's request), which must have been unusual for at least some of 'em.

I know scads of people who run/jog and when they're done, they don't have the wiped out looks on most faces in the photos.
posted by ambient2 at 9:52 PM on July 29, 2011


Agreed, ambient2. Just as often I have a vapid elated look. Often running makes me feel generally mildly benevolent, not wiped out and "brute."
posted by Miko at 9:54 PM on July 29, 2011


Jogging is actually unnatural. If you don't wear the right shoes it will fuck you up. Man was meant to sprint, on occasion, and otherwise walk.

This is not really true. The biomechanics of the human body make us arguably the most effective long distance runners on the planet.
posted by smoke at 10:19 PM on July 29, 2011 [5 favorites]


Yes, and it's the most time-efficient method of travel pre-agriculture era and beasts of burden. It seems certain that people specialized in fast long-distance running as a communications method from very early on.
posted by Miko at 10:21 PM on July 29, 2011 [2 favorites]


Man was meant to sprint, on occasion, and otherwise walk.

Watch this.
posted by Gymnopedist at 11:01 PM on July 29, 2011 [1 favorite]


LordSludge: "Huh? I always said the opposite. Runners are serious; joggers are casual."

Take a second look at my comment - that is exactly what I was saying. My (somewhat obtusely made) point is that the terms are not simply synonyms, and though the boundary between the two may be blurry at times, it is clear which is which.
posted by idiopath at 1:49 AM on July 30, 2011


His thoughts were red thoughts: "A few of these people look like they just came from a round of vigourous sex.

But were they smiling during it?
"

Not if it was ANGRY SEX!
posted by bwg at 2:46 AM on July 30, 2011


I smile when I run all the time.
Fine. But bear in mind that the subjects might be seeking not to violate golden rule #2 of being a Parisienne: don't smile.
posted by rongorongo at 2:48 AM on July 30, 2011


A few of these people look like they just came from a round of vigourous sex.


Most of them look post-coital. Which, I guess, figures. Vigorous physical activity.

Progressive types: your politics don't make your unsolicited criticisms of women's aesthetic choices any more enlightened than they would be coming from fundamentalist weirdos, and it should tell you something that they are usually just as happy as you to offer them.

This, a thousand times this.

I know scads of people who run/jog and when they're done, they don't have the wiped out looks on most faces in the photos.

I look buggered after I run, do judo, or pretty much anything virgorous. I doesn't even matter if it's hard work for me or not.
posted by rodgerd at 3:29 AM on July 30, 2011


I look buggered after I run, do judo, or pretty much anything virgorous. I doesn't even matter if it's hard work for me or not.
posted by rodgerd at 11:29 AM on July 30 [+] [!]


Eponysterical.
posted by stonepharisee at 6:11 AM on July 30, 2011


Why am I the only one, after 150+ comments, who is wondering why the hell the photographer posed them looking everywhere but at the camera post-run? Is this a new photography portrait thing? Is this a French thing? If so, I don't want any part of it.

(Also, I dreamed last night about having a studio portrait done. Way to invade my dreams, MetaFilter.)
posted by TrishaLynn at 6:49 AM on July 30, 2011


I turn really red when I run. People often think I'm about to keel over from heatstroke. But really, I'm just Irish.
posted by Miko at 6:52 AM on July 30, 2011 [4 favorites]


With bad lighting, this is how I look after running 10 km.
posted by Fizz at 7:58 AM on July 30, 2011 [1 favorite]


I turn really red when I run. People often think I'm about to keel over from heatstroke. But really, I'm just Irish.

I turn really red when I do anything. Both my mom and I do. (Tan little brother seems to have taken his skin genes from dad, grr.) She always told me it was because we're German ("damned German blood!" she'd gripe every time her face would flush), but we're a little Irish, too (and really, what white person isn't?).

I can't tell you how many times people have thought I was about to die...no, I've just been walking outside in weather above 76 degrees. Sorry to disappoint.
posted by phunniemee at 8:36 AM on July 30, 2011 [1 favorite]


I always thought jogging was slow running, which seems to put more impact on the knees (especially in the city). So I run (sprint), with a lot of forward motion, as long as I can (a few blocks: I'm not "a runner"), and then walk until I get my wind back. Rinse and repeat.
posted by kozad at 10:08 AM on July 30, 2011


This is me 35 miles into a 62-mile race.

I was having a blast; it was a beautiful day, the trails were great, and the scenery was outstanding. Also, there was no sprinting, sprinting makes me throw up.
posted by dolface at 10:54 AM on July 30, 2011 [1 favorite]


It might be worth noting that I averaged 12-minute miles for that race, which most people would call a slow jogging pace. The winners averaged 9-minute miles.
posted by dolface at 11:07 AM on July 30, 2011


I find joggers tedious, but I must say they're preferable pre-jog. If there's one thing worse than a tedious person it's a sweaty and dishevelled tedious person.

Oscar Wilde said that. Probably.
posted by Decani at 1:13 PM on July 30, 2011 [1 favorite]


Thus sayeth the tediousest.
posted by Horselover Phattie at 1:34 PM on July 30, 2011 [2 favorites]


The amount of airbrushing in the 'later' (standard-ish portrait) photos makes it a little tough to make a fair comparison IMO.
posted by czyz at 2:55 PM on July 30, 2011


So, Running is like vigorous sex and jogging is like casual sex?

So, am I not allowed to have vigorous casual sex?

Also, as long as roller skates exist, you will not catch me running or jogging.
posted by mollymayhem at 10:38 PM on July 30, 2011



I have never called out anyone on metafilter for being a troll and have no plans to ever do so.

But I have to wonder if The World Famous got a huge laugh out of all the responses to his many questions.
posted by notreally at 6:30 PM on July 31, 2011


I certainly hope so. The alternative is just sad.
posted by dersins at 9:19 PM on July 31, 2011


Has anybody made the point yet that jogging is a subset of running, and that they're not mutually exclusive?

That is, all joggers are runners, but not all runners are joggers.

Another way to put this is that to be a runner, it is sufficient but not necessary for you to be a jogger.
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:23 PM on July 31, 2011


Who goes jogging in a polo shirt?

Come on, people, that's a rugby shirt. Rugby is a physically active sport; thus, that is totally legitimate exercise wear ...right?
posted by audacity at 12:06 PM on August 5, 2011


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