Riot-squad officers clashed with demonstrators amid chaotic scenes in Tottenham, north London, last night as a protest over the shooting of a man by police turned violent.
Seems like there have been a lot of riots in the UK lately. Are there external instigators here like there were in the Seattle WTO riots?
London to me was like a donut. The center was wealthy, and very nice, and the surrounding areas were pretty downtrodden and awful.
Imagine something that is a ring, where the inside is good and the outside is less good.
The police seem to have let it be known that they were shot at first, and that a police officer was injured. The impression was thus given in the early media reports that they killed the young man in self-defence. Whatever the officer's injury, he was only kept in hospital overnight. Later, the police claimed that the bullet miraculously struck the officer's police radio which, like a bible or a piece of the true cross, absorbed the shot. They say that in the seconds following this they opened fire in self-defence. An eyewitness, however, claimed that the young man was already restrained on the ground when the shots were fired.
I was on the high road between 8.30pm-11.30pm.
I arrived after the police cars were on fire.
With that said things were reasonably calm - stand off
It became violent and escalated after a police officer hit a women with a baton.
She was v. distress and was running back into the crowd after being near the police line.
This angered the crowd and they proceeded to throw rocks bottle etc...
Regarding the bus - it was just the driven on the bus - he drove right it into the crowd - therefore had to stop - people got on the bus - the driver walked off with no trouble and took the keys with him. people asked for the keys but driver said no - no one challanged him
For the US members of MeFi? Think of this as the corner-boys of Baltimore on the TV show The Wire having a riot because one of their own has been shot by the police.
Violence, after all, bleeds from every pore of the capitalist state: from dire impoverishment and starvation through to police brutality, all the way up to war. But this kind of violence is routinely excused: it's either necessary to 'keep us safe', or it's just the way things are.
The kind of violence that we're told there's 'no excuse' for - the kind the newspapers focus on so angrily and relentlessly - is usually not even actual violence at all. It's setting a police car on fire - or, for that matter, smashing the windows of the Millbank Tower.
And the Hugh Routley pileon is starting to look a bit unseemly.
Sandra Laville, the Guardian's crime correspondent, reports that reinforcements from Thames Valley, Essex, Surrey, City of London and Kent police forces have been called in tonight to prevent a repeat of the violence.Guardian live blog.
Her lawyers say statistical evidence implies that a black person is more than nine times more likely to be searched than a white person. They go on to say section 60 is "incompatible" with three articles of the convention: 14, 5, which protects the right to liberty and security, and 8, which protects the right to private and family life.
Others worry that a perfect storm of unemployment, the withdrawal of the Education Maintenance Allowance and a squeeze on programmes to help disadvantaged youths could bring more than just a rise in crime figures and result in a "lost generation".
"The young people in Tottenham, they are not so much a community within a community, they are a community beyond the community, with their own rules, their own codes, their own hierarchy," said Symeon Brown, 22, who helped run a campaign to prevent the cuts in Haringey. "How do you create a ghetto? By taking away the very services that people depend upon to live, to better themselves."
The poor have nobody to vote for. Nobody speaks for them in the halls of democracy. Their futures have been sold out from under them in the form of a crippling debt burden, PFI bills and unaffordable education (whether through tuition fees or the loss of EMAs). They have no reason to believe in a better tomorrow, and no means to influence it. They've been left to rot, and vilified as feckless scroungers into the bargain. Before you condemn them, answer this question: what do they have left but bottles and stones?
Friend in Brixton reports there's trouble down there tonight, though not on the Tottenham scale. Nothing on the news about it yet so either they don't know or she's overexaggerating (either is possible tbh)
But given that the police are sending dozens of vans full of riot squad to the scene, and given that at least one was witnessed speeding toward the riot with 'Knight Rider' music playing at top volume, I would not rule out the possibility of another killing.
Clegg is twatting around being his usual useless self
As political and social protests grip the Middle East, are growing in Europe and a riot exploded in north London this weekend, here's a sad truth, expressed by a Londoner when asked by a television reporter: Is rioting the correct way to express your discontent?
"Yes," said the young man. "You wouldn't be talking to me now if we didn't riot, would you?"
British police shooting peaceful protesters in Derry in 1972 was unjustified, but that does not make bombing civilians in response OK.
That shop in Croydon is on a street that bears its name: Reeves Corner. Established by my [great-great-]grandfather in 1867. Now gone.
Don't the London police use gas or other riot control devices (rubber bullets, etc) ?
Will and I were going to celebrate with a night out at 2 Michelin star restaurant The Ledbury. I had come to terms with the fact that it would be an expensive dinner, but boy, I had no idea how expensive.
And as easy as it is to chalk it all down to the the masses being oppressed and deny that it has anything to do with upbringing you can't excuse the lawlessness.
I was brought up in a poor area of the country, with bad housing, rife unemployment and zero opportunities but I never kicked an old lady's front door in on my street and robbed her.
Yes, the masses are being ridden over roughshod by a typical Tory government.
Yes, the Labour party and their bailing out of the wealthy at the cost of the poor was and is a tragic, sickening thing to do.
But you don't take it out on your own community.
That is entirely down to a lack of civic pride and a huge, gaping lack of common sense.
Wait, Birmingham Library? Then can burn that down, it's alright, nobody will complain, honestly.
As so often, Ken Livingstone couldn't resist jumping in with an attack on coalition spending cuts. Truly, he is the Boris Johnson of politics, opportunist to a fault.
"smash the rich" isn't going to get you anything
I got a call yesterday morning. The kids gave me a run-down of what had happened in Brixton. A street party had been invaded by a group of young men out to grab. A few years ago, the kids who called me would have joined in, because they had nothing to lose. One had been permanently excluded from six schools. When he first arrived at Kids Company he cared so little that he would smash his head into a pane of glass and bite his own flesh off with rage. He'd think nothing of hurting others. After intensive social care and support he walked away when the riots began because he held more value in his membership of a community that has embraced him than a community that demanded his dark side.
It costs money to care. But it also costs money to clear up riots, savagery and antisocial behaviour. I leave it to you to do the financial and moral sums.
What should we do?
I'm ready to bet 20:1 that this emergency committee meets in whichever briefing room is available at the time, but this acronym was simply too cute not to use it.
Hugh Routley: Closed community centres - serious question: why does this need to be provided by the state? Isn't it better for local people to form communities? (There's always a church/mosque/gurdwara/local hall/working mens club/pub-back-room to meet in) - but you need the organisation to come from within, not from above - surely?
carter: Wot, no Clash CDs?
"My colleague Vikram Dodd writes about the Independent Police Complaints Commission's initial ballistics results on the shooting of Mark Duggan, which triggered Saturday's initial riots in Tottenham.
The results show:
• The bullet lodged in the police radio is a "jacketed round". This is a police issue bullet and, while it is still subject to DNA analysis, it is consistent with having been fired from a Metropolitan police Heckler and Koch MP5 submachine gun.
• The firearm found at the scene was a converted BBM "Bruni" self-loading pistol. This is not a replica; the scientist considers it to be a firearm for the purposes of the Firearms Act and a prohibited weapon and is therefore illegal.
• The handgun was found to have a "bulleted cartridge" in the magazine, which is being subject to further tests.
• At this stage there is no evidence that the handgun found at the scene was fired during the incident. The FSS has told the IPCC that it may not be possible to say for certain; however further tests are being carried out in an attempt to establish this."
It's all so eerie.
Ghost Town is a prophecy that sounds like an aftermath. The ghost town it describes, gutted by recession, is the terrain before a riot ("people getting angry") but you sense it will be as bad or worse after the anger has erupted. Hence the song's circularity: it begins as it ends, with a spectral wail that could be either a cold wind or distant sirens. When the riots did break out, the Specials found the experience frightening rather than vindicating.
...What's happening now isn't a protest or, as Darcus Howe put it, an "insurrection" – it's a nervous breakdown. The motor isn't a political cause but a mood. Politics is in the background, in the pervasive frustration and anxiety of an alienated underclass: record levels of youth unemployment, widening inequality, social services (especially youth services) slashed to the bone, the Education Maintenance Allowance scrapped, a damaged relationship between the police and the community, and collapsing faith in a seemingly indifferent political class. But the immediate outcome makes the lives of residents – many of whom are every bit as deprived as the rioters – even worse than they were last week and opens the door to an authoritarian response.
...A riot is neither a solution nor an unforeseen calamity but a problem brought to the surface: a manifestation of social angst and official failure. As the global economy shudders, that kind of angst is not a localised phenomenon and this will not be the only explosion.
...they're co-operating with the local police (and cheering them on) and are not looking for trouble (just staying on guard). Keep up the good work, and stay safe.
On the other hand, there appears to be a group of white racists running about the Enfield area, looking a lot like the looters from earlier nights. I haven't seen them cause any trouble yet, and there are plenty of police in the area in case things kick off.
"A final thought. One reporter pointed out that in Clapham where the shopping area had been picked clean, the only shop left unlooted and untouched was the book shop."
For defective consumers, those contemporary have-nots, non-shopping is the jarring and festering stigma of a life un-fulfilled – and of own nonentity and good-for-nothingness. Not just the absence of pleasure: absence of human dignity. Of life meaning. Ultimately, of humanity and any other ground for self-respect and respect of the others around.
An elderly man suffered life-threatening injuries when he was attacked by rioters after he tried to extinguish a fire they had started in a bin, it is understood.
craichead, try reading the link, which cites an eyewitness.
Commander Simon Foy, of Scotland Yard, said: ''It was quite a grave assault and his condition is causing us some concern.''
He was perhaps the first thinker to identify the perversity of the kind of progressive thinking that expects the oppressed to conform to a preconceived model of resistance or revolt. According to the progressive norm, genuine victims of injustice will be ennobled by adversities, strengthened by misery and purified by suffering. They will bear witness to their authenticity by playing a starring role in the good old drama of democratic resistance to oppression. And they will gratify their patrons by bringing new vigor and militancy to the part, and perhaps a dash of cathartic revolutionary violence, not to mention unimpeachable moral authority. If Foucault had a mission in life, it was to discredit the progressive model of the perfect rebel.
What happens to a dream deferred?
Does it dry up
like a raisin in the sun?
Or fester like a sore—
And then run?
Does it stink like rotten meat?
Or crust and sugar over—
like a syrupy sweet?
Maybe it just sags
like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?
it's crazy that people are smashing up their own communities. My hunch is that she's right, and that the people rioting in Hackney are from Hackney, and the people rioting in Clapham are from Clapham
The victims, who were aged between 20 and 31, were part of a group of men who had gathered in the local area to protect shops used by all sections of the local community ...
Several cars then drove past the group which was guarding local stores ... and the occupants shouted abuse before one vehicle returned and mounted the pavement at "tremendous speed" and hit the men, throwing them into the air.
According to witnesses, the car, containing up to four men, then sped off.
I said elsewhere that I'd often wondered what happened to the 13 to 20% of kids who walk away from school with no qualifications and very limited numeracy and literacy skills ... Each year's 13 to 20% largely end up on benefits or in jail or in the grey area between the two, claiming what benefits they can and supplementing that income with criminal activity. This is not a recent development; those kids at the bottom have always been there ... These kids often have virtually no social skills. By that I mean they literally cannot sit in a room and hold a conversation with someone other than those in their peer group. That doesn't matter. They don't have the skills to fill in a job application form, they have nothing to put on it if they did, so no one is going to sit them in a room and give them an interview, unless that someone is in a blue uniform, and they are recording the interview.
... We kick up to twenty percent of our kids out of school illiterate, innumerate and socially dysfunctional, then we import people to the lowgrade jobs those kids cannot do, so the immigrants can pay taxes to pay the benefits that just about keep that underclass quiet. The last government merely consolidated the neglect of the previous ones. All governments of all hues since the seventies have failed to address this problem; the only difference between them is the narrative they have fed their respective voters about it ...
They are not part of the society the people reading this belong to. Rioting last night gave them a sense of power and control, over the police, and over their neighbours ... What these riots - which aren't demonstrations, but parties got out of hand, with fires and prizes - is the degree of alienation from their own communities, their inability to acknowledge that they are part of any community. They also don't see themselves as angry or even oppressed, because they cannot look beyond the circumstances they are in and the peer pressures around them. And it is about bad parenting, to the extent that when the 13 to 20% become parents they have no aspirations or responsibilities for their children to inherit. That won't change if you treat merely them as victims, and enhance their sense of entitlement to trainers and TVs, nor if you treat them merely as criminals and process them through a judicial system that encourages recidivism.
but maybe Belfast's kids have had enough of civil unrest over their lifetimes.
4. ‘Classic’ crowd psychology is currently used as the theoretical basis for public order training in
England and Wales. This theoretical position is outdated, unsustainable scientifically and it is
critical that training is updated to reflect contemporary theory and evidence.
Then again, there was looting in London following the Great Fire of 1666, and, despite the mythology, there was looting in London during the wartime Blitz. Go back and read Dickens: Criminals, both immigrant and "native" British, have taken advantage of opportunities to loot in London during more peaceful times, too. A peculiar confluence of circumstances—a mob angry about a police murder, a sudden bout of warm weather, an unprepared police force distracted by scandal, and, yes, the astonishingly widespread availability of BlackBerry smartphones among the underprivileged—might have allowed them to do so again. Beware of sweeping political generalizations in the wake of these riots. We don't know whether we have just witnessed a "new" phenomenon, or a more mobile and technically adept version of a very old one.
"If you're looking for an outlet to serve your bulk iPhone shopping needs, London's Craigslist can't help you just this minute. The case of 40 16GB iPhone 4's that popped up on the embattled city's section of the Internet's classified yesterday — following the third night of riots — has been 'flagged for removal' and is no longer on the site."
So what’s it gonna be? Let’s make a deal, mate. Everything must go, pa’tic’ly as them sirens’re gettin’ closer by the minute. I’m sorta what they call a motivated seller. Buy now before me and Gez ‘ave to do a runner.
"[E]veryone watching these horrific actions will be stuck by how they were organised via social media.
Free flow of information can be used for good. But it can also be used for ill.
And when people are using social media for violence we need to stop them.
So we are working with the Police, the intelligence services and industry to look at whether it would be right to stop people communicating via these websites and services when we know they are plotting violence, disorder and criminality."
‘We have to accept that we were not prepared for the consequences of our actions,’ said a senior looter in Ealing, west London. ‘I took the decision to kick in the windows of my local Comet and help myself to a couple of MacBook Airs in good faith, but I might have done things differently if I had known this would lead to Boris ‘the Mayor’ Johnson descending on the neighbourhood within hours, spreading chaos and confusion and terrorising local businesspeople in Latin.’
[W]hat’s most shocking is that the quality of our history teaching has become so debased, and the basic standard of our historical knowledge is so poor that Starkey can arrive unprepared and behave like a lazy undergraduate trying to derail a tutorial because they haven’t done their homework ... And that tactic was followed almost to the letter by David Starkey last night. I’m not saying he’s lazy. He might be incredibly hard working but rather dim.