Comments on: ITS

ITS

jeffburdges — Wed, 10 Aug 2011 21:47:50 -0800

A Mexican anti-technology terrorist organization called Individuals Tending to Savagery/Wildness (ITS) has claimed responsibility for two bombing attacks on researchers in Mexico.

By: mek

mek — Wed, 10 Aug 2011 22:01:42 -0800

By: GuyZero

GuyZero — Wed, 10 Aug 2011 22:18:21 -0800

Given the huge problems with organized crime in Mexico I'm sincerely shocked that anyone not involved in the drug trade thinks violence is a good route to solving problems. On the flip side, I suppose Unabomber-crazy people known no national boundaries.

By: vidur

vidur — Wed, 10 Aug 2011 22:19:05 -0800

Perhaps we should head off the "WTF Americans" talk first, since it is completely uncalled for.

By: anarch

anarch — Wed, 10 Aug 2011 22:21:01 -0800

If the average Mexican could choose between (a) having enough to eat and a lifestyle that allows them to enjoy family/life, and (b) increasing GDP by further whoring the country out to neocolonialism while continuing to experience its ramifications, I don't think it would be a difficult choice...

By: Sys Rq

Sys Rq — Wed, 10 Aug 2011 22:21:10 -0800

Idiots Talking Shite

By: Grimgrin

Grimgrin — Wed, 10 Aug 2011 22:24:14 -0800

It always interests me that people find the technology itself to be at fault, rather than the social or economic system that uses the technology.

By: oneswellfoop

oneswellfoop — Wed, 10 Aug 2011 22:28:32 -0800

"It's"

By: Joakim Ziegler

Joakim Ziegler — Wed, 10 Aug 2011 22:29:51 -0800

I'm not saying "the globalized 21st century" hasn't been bad for Mexico, but it's hardly a technology-driven development at all. Mexican workers are being exploited as cheap labor, not replaced by machines.

By: Lovecraft In Brooklyn

Lovecraft In Brooklyn — Wed, 10 Aug 2011 22:44:01 -0800

And people call me crazy just because I live in paranoid fear of armed luddites. Who's crazy now? (These guys)

By: Hoopo

Hoopo — Wed, 10 Aug 2011 22:48:13 -0800

To head off the "wtf Luddites" talk, it's not surprising that anti-technology resistance is on the rise in Mexico, considering what a general disaster the globalized 21st century has been for the country I don't know mek, they are apparently motivated by the prospect of grey goo choking out all life on earth so maybe there's a little bit of room for WTF Luddites here. Even the person who coined the term "grey goo" thinks there would be no need for anyone to build tiny self-replicating machines. I'm no kind of scientician, but my understanding is that idea is pretty unlikely if not impossible.

By: Horselover Phattie

Horselover Phattie — Wed, 10 Aug 2011 22:48:29 -0800

There's more than enough crazy to go around.

By: Lovecraft In Brooklyn

Lovecraft In Brooklyn — Wed, 10 Aug 2011 22:52:02 -0800

Its the idea that 'wilderness' is somehow preferable to civilization which is problematic. I wonder if the one-two punch of pro-animal propaganda Rise Of The Planet of the Apes and the new Conan film (which I will probably see) will lead to more of these attacks.

By: joelf

joelf — Wed, 10 Aug 2011 23:16:19 -0800

Message just received by carrier pigeon

By: Joakim Ziegler

Joakim Ziegler — Wed, 10 Aug 2011 23:28:03 -0800

Isn't it hard to build a bomb out of sticks and mud? These people should live what they preach.

By: 2N2222

2N2222 — Wed, 10 Aug 2011 23:37:51 -0800

it's not surprising that anti-technology resistance is on the rise in Mexico, considering what a general disaster the globalized 21st century has been for the country What is surprising is that this sort of conventional wisdom is pretty wrong. Very interesting article in NYT highlights the reality.

Per capita gross domestic product and family income have each jumped more than 45 percent since 2000, according to one prominent economist, Roberto Newell. Despite all the depictions of Mexico as "nearly a failed state," he argued, "the conventional wisdom is wrong."

There have been very real and significant gains in prosperity, despite violence and the perception that Mexico is foundering as a result of globalization. If the average Mexican could choose between (a) having enough to eat and a lifestyle that allows them to enjoy family/life, and (b) increasing GDP by further whoring the country out to neocolonialism while continuing to experience its ramifications, I don't think it would be a difficult choice... This makes little sense. Mexico increasing GDP by "whoring" itself out to whoever is willing to pay increasingly allows the average Mexican the ability to have enough to eat and enjoy life more than ever. Doing (b) causes (a). I assume "whoring" is supposed to be a bad thing, but it's not clear the negative effects outweigh the positive, as Mexico has progressed quite a bit in recent years.

By: bthrbt

bthrbt — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 00:15:56 -0800

I choose to believe that these individuals are actually time travelers who were sent back to prevent the eventual gray goo apocalypse, Terminator 2 style.

By: joannemullen

joannemullen — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 00:46:08 -0800

2n2222 is right. Free trade benefits everyone and demonstrably works. Mexico has enjoyed high growth rates during the "general disaster" of "the globalized 21st century" and what it needs is more trade rather than less to make further progress. Why is an anti-technology terrorist group using bombs anyway? Shouldn't they be throwing rocks from the backs of oxen?

By: Ryvar

Ryvar — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 00:49:48 -0800

By: BitterOldPunk

BitterOldPunk — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 01:22:54 -0800

Given the huge problems with organized crime in Mexico I'm sincerely shocked that anyone not involved in the drug trade thinks violence is a good route to solving problems. Violence seems to working awfully well for Mexican organized crime, really.

By: mek

mek — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 02:03:40 -0800

Free trade benefits everyone and demonstrably works. A rising tide lifts all boats eh? Never mind the widening income gaps and ever-poorer underclass, GDP is on the rise.

By: CautionToTheWind

CautionToTheWind — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 02:18:44 -0800

Please, this is just hipster terrorism. "Yeah, I blew a bomb in a place you probably haven't heard about." Nothing will come of this.

By: bigZLiLk

bigZLiLk — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 02:27:10 -0800

joannemullen: Free trade benefits everyone? Re a l ly?

By: whatzit

whatzit — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 03:01:20 -0800

You can read the group's manifesto on their web page: Individuals Tending to Savagery/Wildness (ITS)

By: ReWayne

ReWayne — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 03:11:22 -0800

Does anyone know the original Spanish name for this group?

By: whatzit

whatzit — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 03:20:48 -0800

Individualidades Tendiendo a lo Salvaje is the original Spanish name, según the linked news article.

By: ReWayne

ReWayne — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 03:31:04 -0800

thanks whatzit

By: palbo

palbo — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 03:59:11 -0800

"a lo salvaje" translates more closely to "to/towards the wild" in context. Using "savagery", although technically one of its meanings, sounds a bit like editorializing.

By: Ted Maul

Ted Maul — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 04:48:49 -0800

It always interests me that people find the technology itself to be at fault, rather than the social or economic system that uses the technology. I think the argument is more that the social and economic systems arise as an inevitable result of the technology. It's strange that this should happen now, as I just read the Unabomber manifesto "Industrial Society and Its Future" yesterday and he spends quite a while talking about this.

By: spitbull

spitbull — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 04:50:49 -0800

Hipster terrorism: your favorite radical group has made it to Metafilter. That means they are mainstream. That means they suck.

By: yerfatma

yerfatma — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 05:08:37 -0800

This is definitely what Mexico needs right now. If only these guys had a TV.

By: grog

grog — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 06:37:51 -0800

Isn't it hard to build a bomb out of sticks and mud? These people should live what they preach. Yeah they built a bomb but then they blew it up to show how much they hated it.

By: stbalbach

stbalbach — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 08:45:16 -0800

Perhaps they've been reading Technological Slavery; The Collected Writings of Theodore J. Kaczynski, ie. "The Unabomber" as some sort of new revolutionary manifesto, now that Communism is out of favor.

By: BrashTech

BrashTech — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 09:46:07 -0800

bthrbt: time travelers from where, exactly? From a survivability perspective a gray goo apocalypse is the equivalent of the planet getting eaten by a black hole, only it takes somewhere between several hours and a day or two instead of mere seconds. ...A rag-tag band of plucky survivors... ...Struggling gainst all odds... ...Striking back against an insatiable foe... ...Triumph of the human spirit... Oh, fine, I got nothin'.

By: jason's_planet

jason's_planet — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 10:29:02 -0800

A Mexican anti-technology terrorist organization called Individuals Tending to Savagery/Wildness (ITS) Hmmm . . . I wonder if they align themselves with this movement (previously on MetaFilter)

By: 2N2222

2N2222 — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 12:18:25 -0800

A rising tide lifts all boats eh? Never mind the widening income gaps and ever-poorer underclass, GDP is on the rise. Is it preferable for prosperity and its indicators, such as rising GDP, to remain stagnant in the cause of stanching inequality?

By: Hoopo

Hoopo — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 12:44:25 -0800

I'm not sure "free trade" really exists. Often free trade agreements result in the erection of non-tariff barriers that have effects that counteract free trade principles, and many industries in NAFTA countries that produce tradeable goods and materials are still heavily subsidized. This is not to mention that the dispute resolutions don't appear to be enforceable and the decisions are not adhered to. The deck is heavily stacked in favor of the more powerful nations in the deal. The claim that "free trade demonstrably works" is a blanket statement that would be difficult to evaluate and is not universally accepted, but I think it's safe to say free trade is not what's motivating ITS so it's not really that relevant to this thread, is it?

By: Sangermaine

Sangermaine — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 14:02:02 -0800

From the "claimed" article: "When these modified viruses affect the way we live through a nano-bacteriological war, unleashed by some laboratory error or by the explosion of nano-pollution that affects the air, food, water, transport, in short the entire world, then all of those who defend nanotechnology and don't think it is a threat will realize that it was a grave error to let it grow out of control," according to statement. Replace the nano/virus stuff with "artificial intelligence"/"singularity" and it's like seeing what happens when Eliezer Yudkowsky gets bored writing Harry Potter fan fiction.

By: eggtooth

eggtooth — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 14:28:52 -0800

Since they have to know what technology is in order to be against it, I'd say Mexico has come a long way in the last few years. And they want to have a space program. It's a surreal country.

By: clearlydemon

clearlydemon — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 15:59:57 -0800

This is the original blog post (Google Translation) where the ITS group claims responsibility for the attack. It's stupid enough to look like a joke, but I doubt anybody would care enough to make such a long post with footnotes just for a laugh. These fuckers make as much sense as the Mexican morenazis (brown-skinned nazis). Perhaps they've been reading Technological Slavery; The Collected Writings of Theodore J. Kaczynski, ie. "The Unabomber" as some sort of new revolutionary manifesto, now that Communism is out of favor. That might be true. Quote from their blog:

No matter what it's said, Kaczynski, Unabomber, Freedom Club (or however you wish to call it) is right.

They also mention another book (or maybe the same one with a different title) from Kaczynski. By the way, the college is in a very quiet area in the outskirts of Mexico City, one of the less affected from narco violence (or at least it was like that a few years ago). The photo in the third link (guy with rifle and mask) is not a good representation of the zone. My niece studies in that university. The bomb had just enough power to hurt a researcher and a guard, and to damage parts of the office. The students were quickly evacuated and classes were suspended for two days.

By: Hello, I'm David McGahan

Hello, I'm David McGahan — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 02:44:45 -0800

It always interests me that people find the technology itself to be at fault, rather than the social or economic system that uses the technology. posted by Grimgrin at 10:24 PM on August 10 [+] [!] As someone who has worked pretty hard on lesson plans and teaching efforts focused on identifying and discrediting technological deterministic assumptions, I am not at all surprised.

By: Hello, I'm David McGahan

Hello, I'm David McGahan — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 02:50:42 -0800

Since they have to know what technology is in order to be against it, I'd say Mexico has come a long way in the last few years. And they want to have a space program. It's a surreal country. posted by eggtooth at 2:28 PM on August 11 [+] [!] Also, we seem to have this strange idea that technology = the new. Steam engines are technological. Bronze working is technological. Writing systems are technological. Agriculture is technological.

By: papafrita

papafrita — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 10:37:11 -0800

I find these people interesting. Not in a good way, but I can tell you they're not your run-of-the-mill Latin American criminals. These are obviously educated people who write with impeccable grammar and spelling. They're sensitive enough to use awkward gender-neutral nouns and pronouns. They idolize Kaczynski, sound well-read, and have at least given serious thought to their ideas. How/why they made the leap into "bombing people is a good idea" is beyond me, but like I said, these are idealists and intellectuals who believe nanotechnology is a serious threat to the human race. They're not the first. Remember Bill Joy's own manifesto of sorts? It's not entirely implausible that weaponized nanotech/biotech might get out of control. I do agree that it's crazy to think that killing a scientist or two would somehow prevent any of this, though. I guess my point is that I think this thread has gone a bit off-track. (And frankly some comments are downright patronizing. "They have to know what technology is in order to be against it." Seriously? Have you even been to Mexico City?) From reading their rants I don't think these guys are anti technology per se. They are, I think, university-educated intellectuals who have ~~radicalized~~ gone off the deep end because they fear there is an imminent threat in emerging nanotechnologies. I may share some of their worries, but I'll never agree with their methods. However I do think we should make an effort in understanding them and their motivations before a productive discussion can be had about this.