Arab-Americans kicked off NWA flight.
September 21, 2001 6:16 AM Subscribe
Hmm, I'm flying out of Minneapolis next Friday to go to Amsterdam and there are usually a number of passengers of middle-eastern extraction on that particular route. Could be interesting...
Isn't the so-called "blind cleric" associated with the first WTC bombing being held in a Minnesota prison?
posted by MrBaliHai at 6:39 AM on September 21, 2001
posted by machaus at 6:43 AM on September 21, 2001
posted by harmful at 6:48 AM on September 21, 2001
Oh, amen to that. It's a passive-aggressive form of misanthropy that never really seems to get much coverage on Prairie Home Companion. People here generally suck.
posted by kittyb at 6:58 AM on September 21, 2001
That is EXACTLY what they should have done!
posted by revbrian at 7:08 AM on September 21, 2001
posted by Dawn at 7:09 AM on September 21, 2001
In regards to that NPR story yesterday, it was a different guy who was "asked" to leave the plane on a different airline (Delta) . No anchor, just scroll down and listen to the segment titled Discrimination.
When I heard it yesterday, I was hoping it was an isolated incident, but alas.
posted by mayalucia at 7:30 AM on September 21, 2001
Personally, and no doubt to my great personal shame, I would beg to be taken off the plane.
posted by rcade at 7:30 AM on September 21, 2001
posted by fusinski at 7:38 AM on September 21, 2001
> That is EXACTLY what they should have done!
No, the airlines should have kicked the bigots off the planes for disrupting service and they should have refused the bigots refunds. You cannot morally accommodate (or re-accommodate) bigotry.
posted by pracowity at 7:40 AM on September 21, 2001
posted by heather at 7:52 AM on September 21, 2001
In a time when Northwest is going to need all the flyers it can get, I will be choosing another carrier when I fly to Baltimore next month, which I just politely told them in a nice little letter. I can't let my own fears close my eyes to how insensitive this was.
posted by kittyb at 8:01 AM on September 21, 2001
posted by dagny at 8:07 AM on September 21, 2001
chuck the bigots off the flight.
Which is a bigger problem when the bigots are the ones flying the plane.
But I figure that if I'm going to avoid things that make me uncomfortable for the rest of my life, I'd be sitting in my mildewy apartment, going nowhere and doing nothing.
Been there, done that, didn't like it. You're absolutely right.
posted by harmful at 8:10 AM on September 21, 2001
"Northwest says it had no choice. The airline says under government security rules is has to 're-accommodate' passengers if their actions or presence make a majority of the other passengers uncomfortable."
Also, it's worth pointing out MSP is a major Northwest hub, the seventh busiest airport in the United States. It's very possible those requesting the Arab-Americans be removed were not from Minnesota.
posted by mrbula at 8:13 AM on September 21, 2001
posted by fusinski at 8:16 AM on September 21, 2001
That's not really true, under the Commerce Clause, any company involved in Interstate transactions cannot discriminate against people for race, sex, etc. etc. I believe the Supreme Court decided this involving a hotel in Georgia that refused service to Black travellers back in the 60's...
Yes, here it is...Heart of Atlanta Motel vs. United States
posted by vito90 at 8:21 AM on September 21, 2001
The better solution would have been asking the simple question -- why are you afraid of these men? Let the morons pipe up with their objections, and let the men answer them directly. "I'm afraid you're going to hijack the plane." "We're going to Minneapolis to visit our sister and her new baby, wanna see the pictures?" "How do we know you don't have any weapons?" "Wanna go through our bags yourselves? Security already did." "We can't trust you." "Hmm, given the number of mosques that have been vandalised and Arab-Americans who have been harassed, assaulted and killed in the last week, don't you think maybe that runs both ways?"
posted by Dreama at 8:39 AM on September 21, 2001
posted by LAM at 8:50 AM on September 21, 2001
If the passengers in a plane arent sure about their security travelling with a Muslim-American, then it means the security wasnt tight enough. These people think that the security they came through didnt impress them.
During the Iran-Iraq war I used to live in Kuwait. Kuwait Airlines was hijacked several times by Irani hijackers for supportin Iraq. I have travelled in Kuwait Airline flights full of Irani looking people. I did that then. And I will fly with any number of Asian looking people now. Because I am not a wuss. I will die for respect of diversity, for respect of humanity.
So, to the Wussies on American Planes. I challenge your racism. I challenge your hate crimes. I challenge your pointing fingers. I challenge your "fuckin muslim/arab" comments. I challenge your Ignorant Arrogance.
I am goint to continue to fly. I will not be racially profiled. I will stand till the last drop of blood, for the dream of freedom, that I followed to the United States of America.
God Bless Freedom
posted by adnanbwp at 9:01 AM on September 21, 2001
I guess I can understand the fear that the other passengers might have felt, though I balk at justifying the presumption that because the hijackers were Middle Eastern, we can rationalize and accept anxiety-turned-into-bigotry (or maybe that's bigotry situationally justified by anxiety?). But people are under pressure, and the best doesn't always come out.
But not only do I think the NWA handled it dreadfully (didn't they expect situations like these?), but I can't imagine that a majority of individuals spontaneously and individually expressed their discomfort and refusal to fly. Sounds like some very vocal bigots must have led this crowd to such a demand. These are the people I'm scared of.
posted by BT at 9:16 AM on September 21, 2001
Just as I would now have absolutely no qualms about going straight for their throats if they threatened the safety of the aircraft or the people on board.
I feel that I would not be alone, and that in fact, most of the plane would be with me.
That makes me feel safer...
posted by fooljay at 9:29 AM on September 21, 2001
posted by judith at 9:37 AM on September 21, 2001
posted by jackiemcghee at 9:48 AM on September 21, 2001
Reminds me of Lenny Bruce who, talking about black and whites,asked: if you could choose between having sex with a white woman and a black one, which would you choose. Now, the white woman is Kate Smith and the black woman is Lena Horne. Pick.
posted by Postroad at 9:52 AM on September 21, 2001
posted by MegoSteve at 9:55 AM on September 21, 2001
Wow, I agree this is bad all around, but I read stuff like the above and I think "better you than me" I am not afraid to fly with anyone, but if you are going to phrase it like that, I am completely unwilling risk my life for a stretchy concept like "humanity".
posted by thirteen at 9:56 AM on September 21, 2001
I think I'd agree that they have a right to do this, and in any case, I doubt that it would even be possible to make something like this illegal without doing more harm than good. It seems to me, though, that there's often a big difference between what one has a right to do and what one should do.
Legislation requiring everybody to be nice all the time would be a really abominably horrible idea. At the same time, if someone consistently acts like an asshole, I'll think less of him, and I'll be less likely to do business with him.
posted by moss at 10:07 AM on September 21, 2001
The airline says under government security rules is has to "re-accommodate" passengers if their actions or presence make a majority of the other passengers uncomfortable.
Does anyone know if this is actually codified somewhere? The passengers on any flight can get together and vote off anyone they don't like? Airplane Survivor?
posted by aaron at 10:28 AM on September 21, 2001
Well, it's not exactly true: we're not talking about a bunch of LAPD rogue cops harassing (or, God forbid) beating up innocent blacks. That's racism and it should be punished very harshly.
But profiling doesn't always come from racism, I'm sorry to report: last Tuesday's kamikaze hijackers are, apparently, all males of Arabic descent, between 20 and 40.
Terrorism has come to America, and unfortunately things will be different: i.e., we must begin to accept that profiling, when it's well-done and doesn't come from racism, does work. If you're a cop and you're in a hurry and you're looking, say, for a militia guy, you just don't bother checking out a black guy.
Looking for one of Bin Laden's boys at the airport? Well, it's ugly and all, but you've gotta follow the Middle Eastern-looking guys, sorry.
This doesn't change the fact that those guys at the Minneapolis airport were racist and they lost it, of course: it's ugly and horrible and disgusting, just like the Italians and the Japanese who got beaten up and even deported in the USA and Great Britain at the beggining of WWII.
It's not very P.C., but profiling does not always equal racism. Just ask a good cop.
posted by matteo at 10:29 AM on September 21, 2001
I'm with whoever said up there that they'd go for the throats of anyone who threatened the safety of the flight. I don't care what they look like. McVeigh showed us that terrorists can be white, too... you who are afraid of the Arab-appearing folks gonna say the same about the militaristic-looking gentleman sitting next to you who by all accounts and appearances is no troublemaker?
Just like a regular everyday Bic pen can be used as a weapon, your regular everyday traveler can go berzerker on a flight and cause mayhem. I don't know what all the fuss is about a bunch of knives being prohibited from flights when you can use just about anything pointy as a stabbing instrument. Security knows this, but you don't see pens or pencils being outlawed. If someone has enough of a driving desire to take a plane down, they can use any means at their disposal, and can look like anybody you'll run into on the street.
Terror doesn't have a face.
posted by evixir at 10:32 AM on September 21, 2001
And yes, terrorists can be white, too. Or they can be black. Or they can be Japanese. Or, or, or... Once you start thinking about it, who knows who anybody is? That's another effect of this type of attack: it makes us afraid of one another.
posted by Dean King at 10:44 AM on September 21, 2001
I totally agree. Minnesotans in general are cold blooded. I miss Texas.
posted by jusx at 10:44 AM on September 21, 2001
posted by mrbula at 10:50 AM on September 21, 2001
the passengers were scared, they have a right to complain.
the Northwest Airline staff (NWA IS based out of minnesota, mrbula) is to blame for not taking the trouble to reassure the passengers that they need to trust that security checked these passengers and that these passengers are merely passengers. perhaps the staff needs training on dealing with this situation. there will always be a need for diversity training, now more than ever!
btw:if you are really angry with nwa, open a site i.e. angry nwa customer.
one more thing:
per: aclu press release 12/97
Northwest Airlines has been testing the CAPS system in select airports since earlier this year, and, according to Nojeim, the ACLU has received more complaints of discriminatory security screening from Northwest passengers than from passengers on any other airline. However, it is not yet clear whether and how those complaints are linked to use of CAPS.
and i am from minneapolis...and a little shocked at the sites i am finding that are showing the disability and race discrimination cases by NWA.
posted by m2bcubed at 10:53 AM on September 21, 2001
posted by torlon2001 at 10:54 AM on September 21, 2001
In a nation that prides itself on it's "melting pot" heritage, we sure are showing that we don't know our basil from our cilantro.
posted by themikeb at 10:55 AM on September 21, 2001
On the other hand, I want to stay alive. I don't know what a "bad" middle-easterner looks like vs. a "good" middle easterner. No one does. I am scared. I don't know how many "cells" of terrorists there are. If there is a Jihad, I don't know what their plans are.
I am not treating Arabs any differently now. In fact, I am patronizing business run by Arabs on purpose would not dream of being rude. But that's on the street, not in a flying bomb. I don't think I would have asked for them not to fly, but I would have been watching them like a hawk.
Again, I don't see it as black and white as others do. I'm very conflicted by what happened.
posted by aacheson at 11:04 AM on September 21, 2001
"Northwest says it had no choice. The airline says under government security rules is has to 're-accommodate' passengers if their actions or presence make a majority of the other passengers uncomfortable."
If that's true, it doesn't matter if the airline is based in Eagan or Chicago or Houston. It's a regulation problem--and a national one at that--that needs to be fixed. In this particular case, it's wrong for us to be holding NWA responsible.
(That said, I hope it doesn't sound like I'm endorsing NWA. Whenever possible, I go with Sun Country.)
posted by mrbula at 11:11 AM on September 21, 2001
I don't think American commercial air travel would provide a very healthy environment for terrorists right now since the outcome of the thwarted highjacking by the passengers in PA, the additional searches and security, the APA's request for passengers to interfere with highjackings and talk of armed air marshals. Doesn't seem to be the easiest form of terrorism anymore.
posted by torlon2001 at 11:18 AM on September 21, 2001
I don't think there's any comparison here. I'm not aware of any restaurants that have been blown up lately by black patrons.
posted by briandame at 11:33 AM on September 21, 2001
they are both reactions from fear and lack of ability to differentiate one individual from another.
mm
posted by m2bcubed at 11:38 AM on September 21, 2001
If there had been, would it be okay to kick them out? Just wondering.
posted by Saima at 11:41 AM on September 21, 2001
I am in agreement with the thought that terrorists and hijackers can come in any color, not just Middle Easterners but white people, black people and Mexicans too.
Basically I'm suspicious of everyone I ride the airplane with because any one of them could burst out and be a freak. Even that kind looking granny lady that keeps asking me if I want a mint. She might be a secret ninja in disguise or something like that.
posted by monique at 11:44 AM on September 21, 2001
posted by msacheson at 11:46 AM on September 21, 2001
But the people who posted those comments are being racially sensitive! In fact, they are being so racially sensitive, they are willing to make sweeping generalizations about people based on where they are from!
posted by Potsy at 12:02 PM on September 21, 2001
monique just summed up why my experience of flying internationally -- often with enough Middle-Eastern men on board to re-enact Lawrence of Arabia -- has always been much more pleasant than on domestic flights in the US, where a significant minority of passengers seem to enjoy re-enacting their infancy.
posted by holgate at 12:15 PM on September 21, 2001
Folks: go back and read vito90's post. Government security rules or no, this practice is illegal. Disrimination on the basis of race or religion is illegal. A government rule that seems to imply otherwise is either a. unconstitutional or b. really means "except where so doing is unconstitutional." And yes, NWA should be expected to know this--this is not arcane law, this is one of the essential parts of our society. The commerce clause makes this even less in doubt--this is actually a *more* clear-cut example than the precedent, since the vast majority of plane flights are state-to-state or international.
Then, anyone who still feels any ambiguity about this, step back and think about whether we *ever* want to allow restrictions of something as essential to our freedoms in this country as the right to travel freely based on religion or ethnicity.
posted by feckless at 12:21 PM on September 21, 2001
This is a well-written argument that racial profiling does not "work." It's far more cogent than any response I could write.
In any event, we could just "temporarily" suspend the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th Amendments if effectiveness were our paramount concern. All those pesky rights sure hamper law enforcement efforts. Imagine, no more right to remain silent, have counsel, or be free from unreasonable searches and seizures. Our police would finally be free to truly maintain public order.
Okay, so it's a goofy overstatement, but my point is that some of our ideals are too important to sacrifice for dubious notions of efficiency. If racial profiling really does "work," then let's see some numbers from a few serious studies.
posted by estopped at 12:34 PM on September 21, 2001
Anyhow, I was just going to add that only 20% of Muslims are Arabs (according to ABC's Nightline a few days back) and that most Muslims are Asians (e.g. , Indonesians, Bangladeshis, etc.) So, are we going to throw all these folks off out airliners so we can feel safe? What about Bosnian Muslims? African Muslims? African-American Muslims?
posted by estopped at 12:39 PM on September 21, 2001
posted by jackiemcghee at 12:44 PM on September 21, 2001
"We in the Arab community need to have a little bit of forbearance, a little bit of patience. We should be slightly more tolerant than usual." The tolerance, however, may wear out over time. If profiling extends beyond the crisis -- if in six months or a year, no Arab can cross an American border or get on a plane without being strip-searched -- then support for the law-and-order cause will likely diminish.
posted by Dean King at 12:52 PM on September 21, 2001
There were no Middle Easterners in Lawrence of Arabia! That was Peter O'Toole, Alec Guinness, and Anthony Quinn in brownface, silly!
posted by dogmatic at 1:15 PM on September 21, 2001
"...it might be a good idea to begin lobbying Congress to cut Northwest Airlines out of the relief."
We need to look at the big picture here. We could only do that if we were willing to fuck over the Twin Cities, Memphis and Detroit in the process. (Imagine removing American and United from Chicago or Delta from Atlanta.) Should NWA be punished? Of course. But I honestly cannot believe any public company as large as NWA has institutionalized racism and should be punished with what, considering the current situation, could be a death sentence.
If there's anything we can say NWA has institutionalized it's incompetence. This was probably just a bone-headed move by some lower-level employees.
posted by mrbula at 1:22 PM on September 21, 2001
posted by m2bcubed at 1:53 PM on September 21, 2001
This post deserves to win some kind of award.
posted by aaron at 2:50 PM on September 21, 2001
Perhaps it is, but you are not the one that gets to decide the rule in unconstitutional. Until a court overturns it, or at least grants an injunction pending the outcome of a lawsuit against it, the rule is legal and binding.
If the rule actually exists in the first place, which still is unclear.
Step back and think about whether we *ever* want to allow restrictions of something as essential to our freedoms in this country as the right to travel freely based on religion or ethnicity.
EVER? I have no trouble imagining circumstances where such restrictions might have to be put in place. They would have to be exceedingly wild circumstances, to be sure, but if it ever were to come to the point where the very existence of the United States itself were in jeopardy due to an out-of-control war, I'd take a temporary imposition of such restrictions over the total collapse of the government. Because I can guarantee you that in such a case, our government would not be replaced by a regime more concerned about such essential freedoms.
posted by aaron at 3:03 PM on September 21, 2001
posted by Potsy at 3:41 PM on September 21, 2001
But Alec Guinness? He's no more Middle Eastern than I am Japanese. And note, Lawrence of Arabia was not the only time David Lean darkened Sir Alec's makeup.
posted by dogmatic at 4:41 PM on September 21, 2001
First, I suspect that if the rule exists, and doesn't explicitly state "except where doing so would violate someone's constitutional rights," that there's probably a blanket rule somewhere in a higher-level paragraph that has that kind of statement. If not, well, expect the lawsuit to take on the government as well as the airline.
Second, I could see *blanket* restrictions on rights being needed during an extreme crisis. Heck, we're probably already facing them regarding airline travel--everybody's ability to travel freely has just been restricted a little bit, by government decree. I think most people find this reasonable, given the context. The problem is with doing so selectively, on the basis of contitutionally protected areas like race or religion. To the extent that we do so, we risk become something other than the United States.
posted by feckless at 5:49 PM on September 21, 2001
posted by bjgeiger at 5:59 PM on September 21, 2001
As a person from Minneapolis, I'd have to agree with the others who have said back off about Minneapolis/Minnesota people. I highly doubt that every person on that plane were from Minneapolis. And I can drive down Lake Street and still see flags from ALL nations (including, I believe, Pakistan and Afghanistan) hanging from the flagpoles, as they were before 9/11/01. They haven't been replaced with all US flags. Even in light of reports that here, in Minneapolis, we also had a minority faction of Muslims who had a celebration the day after the WTC attacks. The majority of people do realize that the Muslims (and non-Muslims) who are celebrating the attack are in the minority of their culture, just as those who are perpetuating violence and hatred towards the Muslims are the minority of ours.
posted by TiffanyRing at 7:37 PM on September 21, 2001
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posted by kittyb at 6:20 AM on September 21, 2001