Straight guy for gay marriage
September 16, 2011 11:55 AM Subscribe
Why A Heterosexual, Married, North Carolinian Father Of Three Cares About LGBT Equality. Married father of three boys writes eloquently about the reasons why he opposes the proposed constitutional amendment banning any legal relationship recognition for same-sex couples.
The amendment goes before voters in May primary election, when heavy Republican turnout is expected.
Meanwhile Senator Goolsby says that it is all about "empowering voters" "so no activist judge is able to decide on his or her own what marriage is."
Disclaimer: I know Eric, but we haven't met/ talked in several years. Eric is the one who introduced me to Metafilter 10+ years ago and might be a member.
Disclaimer: I know Eric, but we haven't met/ talked in several years. Eric is the one who introduced me to Metafilter 10+ years ago and might be a member.
This post was deleted for the following reason: Nothing personal, but if this is about someone who is a friend, you really can't post it to MetaFilter. -- jessamyn
Meanwhile Senator Goolsby says that it is all about "empowering voters"
"Mob rule" doesn't roll off the tongue so well.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:01 PM on September 16, 2011 [4 favorites]
"Mob rule" doesn't roll off the tongue so well.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:01 PM on September 16, 2011 [4 favorites]
i really wonder about the psychology behind this kind of bigotry bigotry. what exactly do people like Goolsby get out of efforts? because from an economic and social standpoint, marriage apartheid (yeah, throwing it out there to see if it sticks) doesnt make any sense :\
posted by liza at 12:07 PM on September 16, 2011
posted by liza at 12:07 PM on September 16, 2011
I've tended to stay out of gay marriage debates, because I'm a heterosexual married white guy with two kids.
I've been doing it wrong.
posted by COD at 12:09 PM on September 16, 2011 [13 favorites]
I've been doing it wrong.
posted by COD at 12:09 PM on September 16, 2011 [13 favorites]
It's a long article. Here are his arguments:
LGBT people are citizens.
Homosexuality is not a choice.
Kids do just fine in families with same-sex parents.
Religious arguments against same-sex marriage do not pass the Lemon Test, a three-pronged legal requirement which stipulates that a) the government's action must have a secular legislative purpose, b) the government's action must not have the primary effect of either advancing or inhibiting religion, and c) the government's action must not result in an "excessive government entanglement" with religion.
Happiness is contagious.
Definitions change. Society evolves.
Don't we want less government intrusion in our lives?
I am a father of three beautiful boys. They are all young enough that they have not shown any definitive signs of sexual orientation one way or the other.
At the end of the day, it just makes sense. Ask yourself what you are worried about if same-sex marriage is legalized.
tldr: A heterosexual, married, North Carolinian father of three cares about LGBT equality because he's a minimally decent human being
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 12:09 PM on September 16, 2011 [8 favorites]
LGBT people are citizens.
Homosexuality is not a choice.
Kids do just fine in families with same-sex parents.
Religious arguments against same-sex marriage do not pass the Lemon Test, a three-pronged legal requirement which stipulates that a) the government's action must have a secular legislative purpose, b) the government's action must not have the primary effect of either advancing or inhibiting religion, and c) the government's action must not result in an "excessive government entanglement" with religion.
Happiness is contagious.
Definitions change. Society evolves.
Don't we want less government intrusion in our lives?
I am a father of three beautiful boys. They are all young enough that they have not shown any definitive signs of sexual orientation one way or the other.
At the end of the day, it just makes sense. Ask yourself what you are worried about if same-sex marriage is legalized.
tldr: A heterosexual, married, North Carolinian father of three cares about LGBT equality because he's a minimally decent human being
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 12:09 PM on September 16, 2011 [8 favorites]
I'm always glad to see allies speak up in support of gay rights. Yay!
posted by rmd1023 at 12:09 PM on September 16, 2011
posted by rmd1023 at 12:09 PM on September 16, 2011
It's so nice to read something like this, because as a native North Carolinian I would like to mount an equally eloquent denunciation of this nonsense, but lately all I can manage is spittle-flecked ranting. All I'd like to add is that I dig this version of the Gadsden Flag, which is a pretty awesome flag and totally deserves to be reclaimed from those Tea Party jerkoffs.
posted by Rangeboy at 12:12 PM on September 16, 2011
posted by Rangeboy at 12:12 PM on September 16, 2011
No offense to my right minded brothers and sisters south of the Mason/Dixon line, but I really think that white politicians in the American South should avoid using any phrases that read like "e****** voters" -- because, in my scanning brain, it easily becomes "enfranchising voters" which just as easily becomes "disenfranchising voters" because that seems a lot more natural considering the source, even if what you were saying is supposedly the opposite.
Maybe that's too much to ask, but then again, maybe they shouldn't be assholes to begin with.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:12 PM on September 16, 2011
Maybe that's too much to ask, but then again, maybe they shouldn't be assholes to begin with.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:12 PM on September 16, 2011
At the end of the day, it just makes sense. Ask yourself what you are worried about if same-sex marriage is legalized.
The homosexual agenda. The bigots that are in a frenzy about this are whipped up by assholes trumpeting a call to arms against 'organized' homosexuality the end goal of which is to destroy the church and America. Everything in your list that came before that goes out the window when 'the gays want your children' is all are willing to hear.
posted by spicynuts at 12:12 PM on September 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yay for minimally decent human beings!
posted by Aizkolari at 12:13 PM on September 16, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by Aizkolari at 12:13 PM on September 16, 2011 [4 favorites]
"Mob rule" doesn't roll off the tongue so well.
That's why I prefer ochlocracy. Same meaning and it sounds sooo much better.
posted by Carillon at 12:15 PM on September 16, 2011 [2 favorites]
That's why I prefer ochlocracy. Same meaning and it sounds sooo much better.
posted by Carillon at 12:15 PM on September 16, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm a married straight guy who cares and speaks up about LGBT rights because I have a fucking soul.
posted by Legomancer at 12:17 PM on September 16, 2011 [7 favorites]
posted by Legomancer at 12:17 PM on September 16, 2011 [7 favorites]
Also, NC's unemployment inched up again for the fourth consecutive month. If the state Dems have the sense God gave a mule (always an open question), they'll ask just how many jobs this farce is creating.
posted by Rangeboy at 12:18 PM on September 16, 2011
posted by Rangeboy at 12:18 PM on September 16, 2011
As much as this does seem like common sense to those of us who are in a pretty liberally minded echo chamber, and it doesn't seem like this guy is necessarily different than that, but there's a reason that 31 states have constitutional restrictions limiting marriage to a man and a woman -- and that's because, as much as those of us who are affected by it care about it and those of us who are actively against it care about -- there's a vast majority of people who seriously could not give two fucks if you gave them one and a half from your spare fuck collection to start with.
Sure, if you ask them, they might say they care about it, especially if they know you are interested in same sex marrying someone else. But, really, most people don't give a damn. So making these arguments over and over and over again are important -- every single time.
On a related note, Dirty Harry has made my day*
* Yes, I went there with the lame joke. E! or TMZ, if you're looking for some one to write lame headlines, call me!
posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:26 PM on September 16, 2011 [2 favorites]
Sure, if you ask them, they might say they care about it, especially if they know you are interested in same sex marrying someone else. But, really, most people don't give a damn. So making these arguments over and over and over again are important -- every single time.
On a related note, Dirty Harry has made my day*
- These people who are making a big deal about gay marriage?" I don’t give a fuck about who wants to get married to anybody else! Why not?! We’re making a big deal out of things we shouldn’t be making a deal out of ... Just give everybody the chance to have the life they want."
* Yes, I went there with the lame joke. E! or TMZ, if you're looking for some one to write lame headlines, call me!
posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:26 PM on September 16, 2011 [2 favorites]
It's strange that we're having repeatedly having this discussion because of political party supposedly against government intrusion, in a country that was founded on the right of an individual to "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness". It is insane.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:27 PM on September 16, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:27 PM on September 16, 2011 [2 favorites]
cares about LGBT equality because he's a minimally decent human being
And we have our smug.
Do you have to live this guy's life, in his world, with his friends, his family, his business relationships, with all their prejudices and limitations regarding this issue?
And do you have to do it after very publically taking a side on a very very very polarizing issue?
No I suspect you don't.
No one is saying the dude is Oskar Schindler, but doing what he did takes some stones. In 2011 it shouldn't have to but it does. And we should recognize that and we should applaud it.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 12:29 PM on September 16, 2011 [4 favorites]
And we have our smug.
Do you have to live this guy's life, in his world, with his friends, his family, his business relationships, with all their prejudices and limitations regarding this issue?
And do you have to do it after very publically taking a side on a very very very polarizing issue?
No I suspect you don't.
No one is saying the dude is Oskar Schindler, but doing what he did takes some stones. In 2011 it shouldn't have to but it does. And we should recognize that and we should applaud it.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 12:29 PM on September 16, 2011 [4 favorites]
I'm a married straight guy who cares and speaks up about LGBT rights because I have a fucking brain.
...SOUL works too :)
posted by twidget at 12:35 PM on September 16, 2011
...SOUL works too :)
posted by twidget at 12:35 PM on September 16, 2011
Oh, yeah? I'm a heterosexual, married, (former) North Carolinian father of one who cares about LGBT equality so hard that I got on MTV for it.
posted by MrMoonPie at 12:36 PM on September 16, 2011
posted by MrMoonPie at 12:36 PM on September 16, 2011
I'd argue that this person is more than minimally decent... Unless you have a problem with heterosexual male fathers of three. In that case I think there's no hope for you, just like there's no hope for people who are against government recognition of gay marriage. You're equally fucked up.
posted by Eekacat at 12:42 PM on September 16, 2011
posted by Eekacat at 12:42 PM on September 16, 2011
So instead of relying on interpretations of law for a legal covenant with legal implications, we're just going to crowd source bigotry.
Here's what I don't get about these things...Why don't the opponents of these anti-gay amendments simply call it what it is...bigotry...and call the supporters what they are...bigots? I mean as an "official" response to the amendment. Outright declare to the cameras that representative so-and-so is trying to push his bigotry into the constitution. Or you object to senator so-and-so trying to write his bigoted ideas into the constitution.
Yeah, it's ugly and impolitic but, at this point, so what? Start throwing "bigot" and "bigotry" at this issue and its supporters over and over and over until it starts to stick. It's the same sort of method conservatives have been using for ages to denigrate liberal causes and liberalism itself.
Call a bigot a bigot.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:42 PM on September 16, 2011 [7 favorites]
Here's what I don't get about these things...Why don't the opponents of these anti-gay amendments simply call it what it is...bigotry...and call the supporters what they are...bigots? I mean as an "official" response to the amendment. Outright declare to the cameras that representative so-and-so is trying to push his bigotry into the constitution. Or you object to senator so-and-so trying to write his bigoted ideas into the constitution.
Yeah, it's ugly and impolitic but, at this point, so what? Start throwing "bigot" and "bigotry" at this issue and its supporters over and over and over until it starts to stick. It's the same sort of method conservatives have been using for ages to denigrate liberal causes and liberalism itself.
Call a bigot a bigot.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:42 PM on September 16, 2011 [7 favorites]
"so no activist judge is able to decide on his or her own what marriage is."
Wouldn't you have to get rid of marriage as a legal concept in order to do this?
Actually... do we have a candidate with that in the platform?
posted by LogicalDash at 12:43 PM on September 16, 2011
Wouldn't you have to get rid of marriage as a legal concept in order to do this?
Actually... do we have a candidate with that in the platform?
posted by LogicalDash at 12:43 PM on September 16, 2011
The homosexual agenda. The bigots that are in a frenzy about this are whipped up by assholes trumpeting a call to arms against 'organized' homosexuality the end goal of which is to destroy the church and America. Everything in your list that came before that goes out the window when 'the gays want your children' is all are willing to hear.
That is the crazy thing though. The people you describe only make up a portion of those opposed to marriage equality. I have only looked at polling data for a few states but it would suggest that these people are a minority. A larger share are people that have no problem with LGBT people, but just think marriage should not be redefined. Many of which are perfectly fine with civil unions or some other non-marriage recognition.
Now, we both know that is bullshit and it is a bigoted position, though they don't see themselves that way. They see it as a fair sort of middle ground that gives LGBT individuals rights while keeping their church's safe. That is the fascinating part. How do you convince a group of people that their position is not fair and that their church's wont have to change? That facts simply wont do it. You have to assuage their fears and that is a very difficult task indeed.
posted by munchingzombie at 12:46 PM on September 16, 2011
That is the crazy thing though. The people you describe only make up a portion of those opposed to marriage equality. I have only looked at polling data for a few states but it would suggest that these people are a minority. A larger share are people that have no problem with LGBT people, but just think marriage should not be redefined. Many of which are perfectly fine with civil unions or some other non-marriage recognition.
Now, we both know that is bullshit and it is a bigoted position, though they don't see themselves that way. They see it as a fair sort of middle ground that gives LGBT individuals rights while keeping their church's safe. That is the fascinating part. How do you convince a group of people that their position is not fair and that their church's wont have to change? That facts simply wont do it. You have to assuage their fears and that is a very difficult task indeed.
posted by munchingzombie at 12:46 PM on September 16, 2011
I'm a married straight guy who cares and speaks up about LGBT rights because I have a fucking soul.
Exactly, I'm a married straight guy who cares and speaks up about LGBT rights because I have a soul, brain, friends who are impacted by the less than subtle bigotry of those on the other side of the issue.
And I'm happy to see that I'm not alone.
posted by quin at 12:47 PM on September 16, 2011
Exactly, I'm a married straight guy who cares and speaks up about LGBT rights because I have a soul, brain, friends who are impacted by the less than subtle bigotry of those on the other side of the issue.
And I'm happy to see that I'm not alone.
posted by quin at 12:47 PM on September 16, 2011
"If you want to figure out a way to push Bank of America from its headquarters in Charlotte to New York, pass this amendment," said Martin Eakes, CEO of Self-Help and the Center for Responsible Lending in Durham and a member of Bank of America's national advisory board.
posted by infinitewindow at 12:48 PM on September 16, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by infinitewindow at 12:48 PM on September 16, 2011 [4 favorites]
Call a bigot a bigot
As another (recent) North Carolinian, I'm finding far more opportunities than I would like to use that term. I'm fortunate enough to be in a college town so it could be worse. Still, I think I'm bothered less by the words/actions of the bigots than I am by the silences/inactions of so many who think differently.
And, while the article is great, I wish it didn't reference Elie Wiesel. He's a fraud who should never be mentioned in the same sentence as something like human rights or fighting injustice.
posted by williampratt at 12:49 PM on September 16, 2011
As another (recent) North Carolinian, I'm finding far more opportunities than I would like to use that term. I'm fortunate enough to be in a college town so it could be worse. Still, I think I'm bothered less by the words/actions of the bigots than I am by the silences/inactions of so many who think differently.
And, while the article is great, I wish it didn't reference Elie Wiesel. He's a fraud who should never be mentioned in the same sentence as something like human rights or fighting injustice.
posted by williampratt at 12:49 PM on September 16, 2011
liza: "what exactly do people like Goolsby get out of efforts?"
Elected. More's the pity.
posted by Drastic at 12:56 PM on September 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
Elected. More's the pity.
posted by Drastic at 12:56 PM on September 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
> "If you want to figure out a way to push Bank of America from its headquarters in Charlotte to New York, pass this
> amendment," said Martin Eakes, CEO of Self-Help and the Center for Responsible Lending in Durham and a member of Bank
> of America's national advisory board.
I'm not sure that's much of a threat
posted by jfuller at 12:56 PM on September 16, 2011
> amendment," said Martin Eakes, CEO of Self-Help and the Center for Responsible Lending in Durham and a member of Bank
> of America's national advisory board.
I'm not sure that's much of a threat
posted by jfuller at 12:56 PM on September 16, 2011
Meanwhile Senator Goolsby says that it is all about "empowering voters" "so no activist judge is able to decide on his or her own what marriage is."
how about empowering people so they can decide for themselves who they would like to marry?
posted by pyramid termite at 12:57 PM on September 16, 2011
how about empowering people so they can decide for themselves who they would like to marry?
posted by pyramid termite at 12:57 PM on September 16, 2011
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So instead of relying on interpretations of law for a legal covenant with legal implications, we're just going to crowd source bigotry.
posted by Slackermagee at 11:59 AM on September 16, 2011 [2 favorites]