When Bad Films Happen to Good Directors

September 21, 2011 3:18 PM

Simply the Worst. Film blog Reverse Shot is looking this month at the worst (by various criteria) films of some major directors, including the Coen Brothers' The Ladykillers, Wes Anderson's The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou, Woody Allen's Anything Else, and more.
posted by Horace Rumpole (239 comments total)

Wes Anderson's The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou

ERROR: TYPE MISMATCH
posted by ShawnStruck at 3:22 PM on September 21, 2011 [86 favorites]

Fantastic Mr. Fox was probably worse than Zissou, no?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:24 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

I'll certainly agree with both of you to the extent that all of Anderson's films are worse than the others.
posted by tumid dahlia at 3:25 PM on September 21, 2011 [21 favorites]

The Life Aquatic is my favourite film.
posted by neuromodulator at 3:25 PM on September 21, 2011 [24 favorites]

Zissou is easily Anderson's worst. No doubt.

And though I haven't seen Ladykillers, I'd be surprised if it was worse than Intolerable Cruelty.
posted by dobbs at 3:25 PM on September 21, 2011 [4 favorites]

> And this is why—more than its sophomoric humor, more than its superficially simplistic contest between good and evil, more than its having “butchered a classic”— The Ladykillers is considered the Coen Brothers’ worst film: because it is secretly one of their most challenging.

This is what happens when you overthink a plate of crap.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:26 PM on September 21, 2011 [11 favorites]

Woody offers an embarrassment of riches here.
posted by Trurl at 3:28 PM on September 21, 2011 [3 favorites]

By which I mean that he has at least half a dozen candidates for "worst movie".
posted by Trurl at 3:30 PM on September 21, 2011 [3 favorites]

They're lucky they didn't pick Stardust Memories or I would have had to hunt someone down.
posted by dobbs at 3:30 PM on September 21, 2011 [5 favorites]

Nailed it with Life Aquatic. Love Anderson, but the complete triumph of style over substance made that movie literally unwatchable for me.

The dirty little secret is that on "Rushmore" and "Tennenbaums" he co-wrote with Owen Wilson, and on his more recent films he's been co-writing with Roman Coppola and others. So you kind of see what the secret ingredient was.
posted by drjimmy11 at 3:31 PM on September 21, 2011 [10 favorites]

I'd go with The Darjeeling Limited TBH - I loved The Life Aquatic.

Does Crimewave count?
posted by Artw at 3:33 PM on September 21, 2011 [9 favorites]

I nominate Ocean's Twelve for the Soderbergh piece. I also agree with the Zissou assessment.
posted by perhapses at 3:33 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

"The Ladykillers" rules.

David Cronenberg's "A Dangerous Method" is mystifyingly terrible; I would never have guessed that Cronenberg was responsible for that period piece bore.

Hitchcock's "I Confess" is pretty bad.

Also I just went on IMDb to see if there was a David Mamet example and HOLY SHIT MAMET IS MAKNG A PHIL SPECTOR BIOPIC WITH AL PACINO??
posted by eugenen at 3:34 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

Aw, come on....
posted by Artw at 3:35 PM on September 21, 2011

The Ladykillers > Intolerable Cruelty.

David Cronenberg's "A Dangerous Method" is mystifyingly terrible; I would never have guessed that Cronenberg was responsible for that period piece bore.

I haven't seen it yet, but that's a shame. It's also strangely reminiscent of how Cronenberg's M. Butterfly had previously held the trophy for the most-skippable Cronenberg movie.
posted by Sticherbeast at 3:36 PM on September 21, 2011

The Life Aquatic is my favourite film.

If you haven't, check out "Boudu Saved from Drowning", "Floating Weeds", and "The Rules of the Game" - there's a entire sea of cinema out there made by directors and actors that are more concerned with human life, emotions, universal experiences, and storytelling than with set dressing and the cryptic, totally personal resonance of the objects in their films. Anderson is talented designer, but a solipsist.
posted by ryanshepard at 3:36 PM on September 21, 2011 [9 favorites]

I completely agree - Darjeeling Limited had only one thing going for it, and that was the visuals. Otherwise, total turkey. I liked The Life Aquatic, and Fantastic Mr. Fox is one of my favorite films ever.
posted by Miko at 3:37 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

The best review of In The Cut.
posted by Artw at 3:38 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

I'd be surprised if it was worse than Intolerable Cruelty.

I am sorry, but "Let N.O.M.A.N. Tear Assunder" is a joke so hilarious it absolves the movie of a great many sins.
posted by munchingzombie at 3:38 PM on September 21, 2011 [4 favorites]

I've given Zissou more than one chance. Never again.

And wandering through an HMV the other day (seriously wtf, when does that happen?) I happened to spot Ladykillers in the $5 bin. Now, there's nothing wrong with $5 bins; this particular one rewarded me with Time Bandits. I got Max Payne and Deus Ex in $5 bins. But Ladykillers ended up there a lot earlier after release, I think.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 3:38 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

I think Zissou is so understated with a lot of the humour that it's easy to miss that it is maybe one of the funniest movies of all time. ("You're all getting incompletes." "This is BULLSHIT.")

But more than that: it's a story about hope, disappointment and reality. Steve is thinking about the past, about his errors, about the man he wanted to be and the man he is and the difference, and for most of the movie he's not willing to shoulder any responsibility for the gap. And I feel that, as someone generally disappointed with himself, and for it to be that and consistently hilarious? That's amazing, and it is, and I love it forever.
posted by neuromodulator at 3:38 PM on September 21, 2011 [35 favorites]

On non-preview, holy fuck Ocean's Twelve.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 3:38 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

/puts on Ping Island/Lightning Strike Rescue Op.
posted by Artw at 3:40 PM on September 21, 2011 [4 favorites]

The Life Aquatic is Wes Anderson's saddest film to date. It's all about the anxiety of paternity both as an author and as a father. I can see why that might be less universal than some of his other films, but that doesn't make it bad.

Come on, Zissou is impotent, he has a number of surrogate sons but no heir, he is quickly running out of time to leave any kind of legacy, his last mission is just meaningless revenge against nature, which just ends up killing others around him. His crew is disappearing, the things that worked well for him as a younger man are just kind of sad now, his greatest rival has the adult kind of success that eludes Zissou. And yet ultimately Zissou finds redemption (although in my interpretation, that redemption may just be a fantasy - check the art direction in those scenes). It's a profoundly moving film, but it's not for everyone.
posted by 2bucksplus at 3:40 PM on September 21, 2011 [27 favorites]

> Also I just went on IMDb to see if there was a David Mamet example and HOLY SHIT MAMET IS MAKNG A PHIL SPECTOR BIOPIC WITH AL PACINO??

Al Pacino playing a flamboyantly crazy person? All the yelling and arm-waving writes itself!
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:42 PM on September 21, 2011 [7 favorites]

If you haven't, check out "Boudu Saved from Drowning", "Floating Weeds", and "The Rules of the Game" - there's a entire sea of cinema out there made by directors and actors that are more concerned with human life, emotions, universal experiences, and storytelling than with set dressing and the cryptic, totally personal resonance of the objects in their films. Anderson is talented designer, but a solipsist.

You know, when I say something is my favourite film, and you respond with this kind of condescension towards the same film, while responding to me, I'm going to assume that you're not actually interested in communicating with me and more interested in sounding clever. And maybe you recognize that, too, in which case we're in harmony.
posted by neuromodulator at 3:42 PM on September 21, 2011 [27 favorites]

Man, this is exactly the reason why I hate Reverse Shot.

In the Cut is a great movie; My Blueberry Nights is pretty much as good as your average Wong Kar-Wai movie -- it's just that it happens to be in English (Wong is not a naturalist, and I think it was difficult for a lot of people to finally realize that when they heard him directing actors in a language they actually understood). Life Aquatic is pretty damn good, and The Ladykillers has a few really great performances in it.

I'd much rather read someone's defense of Skidoo than this "accepted truth" crap again. Also: Bergman made many shittier films than The Touch (The Serpent's Egg, anyone?).
posted by alexoscar at 3:43 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

Also I just went on IMDb to see if there was a David Mamet example and HOLY SHIT MAMET IS MAKNG A PHIL SPECTOR BIOPIC WITH AL PACINO??

The part Pacino and his hair were born to play.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:43 PM on September 21, 2011

David Mamet is the worst work of David Mamet.
posted by Artw at 3:43 PM on September 21, 2011 [10 favorites]

I remember leaving the theater with Mrs. Trurl after Eyes Wide Shut. All I could say was "My heart is broken."
posted by Trurl at 3:43 PM on September 21, 2011 [4 favorites]

The Serpent's Egg, anyone?

The first hour is the terrible, but the last hour is pretty damn great.
posted by Sticherbeast at 3:44 PM on September 21, 2011

I'm going to assume that you're not actually interested in communicating with me and more interested in sounding clever.

Nope - I really do think it's a great-looking but shallow movie.
posted by ryanshepard at 3:44 PM on September 21, 2011

a David Mamet example

Spanish Prisoner.
posted by dobbs at 3:45 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

Ladykillers? Ladykillers??

Thanks for putting it right there at the top that I can't take these people's opinions on movies seriously, anyway.
posted by cmoj at 3:45 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

Eyes Wide Shut

Among my favorite Kubricks. For me, I can easily do without Lolita.
posted by dobbs at 3:46 PM on September 21, 2011 [8 favorites]

I wonder how many times someone will make the "Everything by this person was the worst" joke.
posted by John Cohen at 3:46 PM on September 21, 2011

Fantastic Mr. Fox was probably worse than Zissou, no?

You take that back, you god damned monster!
posted by Senor Cardgage at 3:47 PM on September 21, 2011 [15 favorites]

As a real life marine biologist I can attest to its immense appeal to people who live on boats with a bunch of moody monomaniacs who also happen to be shameless thrives. If you've never arrived on a remote airport three days after your luggage only to find that someone has nicked all your sampling gear? I can see how you wouldn't understand...

(the part where the alarm sounds and he punches it off without even looking? That kills on a boat)
posted by fshgrl at 3:47 PM on September 21, 2011 [10 favorites]

I like Intolerable Cruelty. My wife and I saw it in the theatre and there was one joke I laughed at so hard and for so long (I'm talking Robert DeNiro in Cape Fear-style laughing) my wife was kind of embarrassed to be sitting beside me.

Ladykillers is the only Coens' film I didn't like at all. Didn't laugh or even chuckle once. But that's the thing about comedy.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:48 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

Spielberg's worst film is not 1941 or Lost World, but Amistad.

De Palma's worst film is not Snake Eyes or Bonfire of the Vanities, but Mission to Mars.

I like Intolerable Cruelty. My wife and I saw it in the theatre and there was one joke I laughed at so hard and for so long (I'm talking Robert DeNiro in Cape Fear-style laughing) my wife was kind of embarrassed to be sitting beside me.

Was this joke about an inhaler, perchance?
posted by Sticherbeast at 3:49 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

~Eyes Wide Shut
~Among my favorite Kubricks. For me, I can easily do without Lolita.

Y'know...I kind of lean that way, too. Though, I'd put Spartacus below Lolita, myself.

How about a Scorsese film, folks? There's almost as many stinkers as Woody Allen has.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:50 PM on September 21, 2011

Don't we have enough crap movies already (I'm thinking of something with Vin Diesel in it, but fill your boots), that we need to redefine half-assed attempts at Art from "serious" directors as The Worst?

Or maybe this is the obverse of elevating crap into the needless "so bad it's good" category?
posted by sneebler at 3:51 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

Things Change is Mamet's best film. and a great film. what's difficult with Mamet and others is that there is clearly a strong intellect and a ton of talent that is rarely utilized to its full extent.
posted by TMezz at 3:52 PM on September 21, 2011

I thought A Serious Man was pointless and, in that being pointless was probably it's point, fucking pretentious, so I might actually go for that one over the lightweight comedy's, Oscar nom be damned.
posted by Artw at 3:52 PM on September 21, 2011 [4 favorites]

> Was this joke about an inhaler, perchance?

No, it was the scene where Clooney met Wheezy Joe for the first time. Just the line "Are you...Wheezy Joe?"
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:52 PM on September 21, 2011 [4 favorites]

How about a Scorsese film, folks?

Anything after Goodfellas, though Casino has its moments.
posted by dobbs at 3:52 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

Scorsese

I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of movies I've walked out of.

I walked out of Bringing Out The Dead.
posted by Trurl at 3:53 PM on September 21, 2011

Spielberg's worst film is not 1941 or Lost World, but Amistad.

I dunno. 1941 is just so over-the-top bad. It's what happens to comedy when a mountain of money is thrown at it and the powers of Hollywood's heaviest hitters are employed to wring every guffaw from the script. It tries way too hard to be funny that it becomes painful to endure.

Amistad was just a bad movie. 1941 was the Cleopatra of comedies.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:53 PM on September 21, 2011 [3 favorites]

Also: the proper remedy for this nonsense is David Cairns' weekly column at Notebook, The Forgotten.
posted by alexoscar at 3:53 PM on September 21, 2011

Among my favorite Kubricks. For me, I can easily do without Lolita.

Barry Lyndon was beautiful, but boring. A low point in a mountain range.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:54 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

Let's talk about how disappointing For Your Consideration was :(
posted by 2bucksplus at 3:55 PM on September 21, 2011 [6 favorites]

I walked out of Bringing Out The Dead.

Really? I'd say that's one of his very, very best. Then again, my favorite Scorsese is After Hours, so my take is what it is.
posted by Sticherbeast at 3:56 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

As a real life marine biologist I can attest to its immense appeal to people who live on boats with a bunch of moody monomaniacs who also happen to be shameless thrives.

I can totally see this, in the same way that, for me, Darjeeling got so many details right.

But the whole Cate Blanchett storyline was so cringeworthy.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 3:57 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

I loved the Life Aquatic :(
posted by empath at 3:57 PM on September 21, 2011

I'd say that's one of his very, very best.

Have you read the book? Holy shit, can that guy write.
posted by dobbs at 3:58 PM on September 21, 2011

I felt like Scorsese won the Oscar for The Departed because everyone realized he got passed over during his best years and time was running out.
posted by perhapses at 3:58 PM on September 21, 2011 [3 favorites]

I actually groaned out loud when Scorcese fired up "Gimme Shelter" during the first scene of The Departed. Way to let us know you're on autopilot, Marty.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:58 PM on September 21, 2011 [10 favorites]

Count me as a vote for Life Aquatic's greatness.
posted by vibrotronica at 3:58 PM on September 21, 2011

Upon watching Shutter Island you will experience a mountain dread that it will have one of two hackneyed twist endings. It turns out to be the second one, the one that isn't used by The Sixth Sense. CONDEMNED FOREVER.
posted by Artw at 4:02 PM on September 21, 2011 [3 favorites]

Upon watching Shutter Island you will experience a mountain dread that it will have one of two hackneyed twist endings.

Anyone who's seen The Ninth Configuration figured it out LONG before the ending, believe me. Like, 15 minutes into the movie. Utter piece of shit that film was.
posted by dobbs at 4:03 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

Come on, The Ladykillers was good dark humor.

It was, shame it had to be remade.

On the plus side, neither the Will Smith nor the Robin Williams version of Kind Hearts and Coronets got made and the fizzling of the Ladykillers remake may have helped with that. So that's stopped me having to shit in a box and pay postage to Hollywood every week for the rest of my life.
posted by biffa at 4:04 PM on September 21, 2011 [9 favorites]

Did anyone arguing in this thread bother to read the introductory article? Specifically, this part:

"For our thirtieth symposium, we asked our writers to consider at length the movie that they believe to be the worst in a single filmmaker’s career. However, “worst” could be applied in any way our writers interpreted it. It could be a film that they think genuinely is their worst, or it could be one that’s been deemed their worst by the critical culture at large but which they thought deserved another look. Hopefully we left it wide open enough for them to write on any topic they wanted, giving them a chance to either scrutinize a title from an idol or re-evaluate a filmmaker they might have not given much consideration to."

While some (though certainly not all) of these pieces do conclude that a film is, in fact, a director's worst, they're hardly saying, "LOL Life Aquatic sux amirite?" It's sad to see that most of the posts in this thread are stuck at that level of discourse.
posted by Awkward Philip at 4:05 PM on September 21, 2011 [9 favorites]

The Life Aquatic is great. I'm not sure what Wes's worst movie is, but it can't be Life Aquatic. Also, I've recently watched almost everything Cousteau did from Le Monde de Silence in 1956 through stuff from the 1990s, and compared to actual Cousteau films/television shows, Life Aquatic is incredibly restrained. I think in a sense it would be hard to appreciate The Life Aquatic without having recently seen some vintage Cousteau.
posted by snofoam at 4:06 PM on September 21, 2011 [5 favorites]

Al Pacino playing a flamboyantly crazy person? All the yelling and arm-waving writes itself!

I've been on a Glengarry Glen Ross kick lately. There's a moment in the movie where he says to Ed Harris, "How fucked UP you are!". And it sounds pure "HOO-ah!" Ham sandwich.

Then I read the play. And remarkably enough, Mamet actually prints it that way - the word in capital letters and everything. So I guess we can't blame Al for that one.
posted by Trurl at 4:06 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

Only movie I've ever walked out of (and still would pay not to see): the usually estimable Bernardo Bertolucci's Last Tango in Paris. The films on this list: meh.
posted by bearwife at 4:06 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

Another major fan of the Life Aquatic here. And I think the fact that it's about (among many other things) being a creator, and the fear that one has done one's defining work and is sliding into irrelevance, has a lot to do with the reason critics don't understand it.

And officially fuck the fetishising of Metacritic and Rotten Tomatoes scores. You want to critically examine Wes Anderson's lowest-scoring film? Rewatch his 'best of the nineties' Bottle Rocket, then.
posted by Hogshead at 4:07 PM on September 21, 2011 [10 favorites]

The Life Aquatic made a lot more sense to me when a friend explained that Steve Zissou is exactly what an 11.5-year-old thinks a grown-up's life should be like.
posted by Shepherd at 4:07 PM on September 21, 2011 [3 favorites]

Bernardo Bertolucci's Last Tango in Paris

I like that film. A friend hates it and has one of my favorite lines ever about it: "You'd have to butter me to get me back in the theatre to see that again."
posted by dobbs at 4:08 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

I actually rather liked Fantastic Mr. Fox as well.
posted by Artw at 4:09 PM on September 21, 2011

While some (though certainly not all) of these pieces do conclude that a film is, in fact, a director's worst, they're hardly saying, "LOL Life Aquatic sux amirite?" It's sad to see that most of the posts in this thread are stuck at that level of discourse.

Eh, well speak for yourself. There would be no point in commenting on Zissou at all if it wasn't in the context of an otherwise fantastic film-making career (so far).
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 4:09 PM on September 21, 2011

Another major fan of the Life Aquatic here. And I think the fact that it's about (among many other things) being a creator, and the fear that one has done one's defining work and is sliding into irrelevance, has a lot to do with the reason critics don't understand it.

Cold blooded, but I find myself agreeing.
posted by 2bucksplus at 4:10 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

C'mon guys, Bottle Rocket was clearly his worst.

(Darjeeling Limited, The Life Aquatic and Fantastic Mr. Fox all had their problems but were also beautiful and earnestly-written films.)
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 4:11 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

Armond White's favourite movie is The Darjeeling Limited. I think we can consider the mater settled.
posted by Artw at 4:12 PM on September 21, 2011 [4 favorites]

Aw, come on....

Heh. The Keep never made it to DVD, but some generous soul has put it on YouTube.
posted by homunculus at 4:13 PM on September 21, 2011

The Keep never made it to DVD

Pretty sure Michael Mann made certain of that.
posted by dobbs at 4:16 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

No way. As of 2011, the film has not been officially released on DVD in any country.

I did not believe you for a minute, dobbs. This goes in the holy shit! file.
Supposedly the uncut version wasn't actually modestly comprehensible. And some of us still love the Tangerine Dream soundtrack.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 4:18 PM on September 21, 2011

Was, rather.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 4:18 PM on September 21, 2011

The entry for The Keep also goes out of it's way to diss David Lynch’s Dune. You are on my shitlist, Keith Uhlich.
posted by Artw at 4:20 PM on September 21, 2011

WE WANT THAT DONUT MONEY.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 4:21 PM on September 21, 2011

Still working my way through the reviews, but I wanted to drop a note of praise for the writing on this project in that it's not just a "haha let's laugh at these shitty movies" retrospective in smugness but a fair examination of films that went sideways for one reason or another. Best of all, perhaps, is that these examinations make me curious to watch the movies in question and judge for myself. I prefer this style of film analysis several magnitudes more than just being offered another glass of internet haterade.
posted by EatTheWeek at 4:21 PM on September 21, 2011 [15 favorites]

I love Life Aquatic. There, I said it.

Spielberg's Empire of the Sun could probably knock something off of that list and I love that movie too.
posted by snsranch at 4:22 PM on September 21, 2011

Let's talk about how disappointing For Your Consideration was :(

Oh god, this a thousand times. I waited so long to see it, and then it was just this thing that lay there on screen resisting any attempt at finding humor and slowly becoming a caricature of a bad movie, with actors I loved being forced to be horrible and dull for no reason. Catherine O'Hara should have won an award for surviving it. I can't believe it hasn't been profiled on My Yaar of Flops, but maybe it'd be too painful for anyone at the A.V. Club to see again.

And then a friend told me I didn't get it because I'm not Jewish.

Which I guess makes it ironic that I loved A Serious Man?
posted by psoas at 4:25 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

Come on, The Ladykillers was good dark humor.

It was, shame it had to be remade.

I was so disappointed by The Ladykillers. The original film was great fun, the Coen brothers are fantastic, so I was really looking forward to it. But alas, it just didn't work.
posted by homunculus at 4:26 PM on September 21, 2011

I really liked the Life Aquatic. I mean, Bill Murray.
posted by Splunge at 4:27 PM on September 21, 2011 [5 favorites]

Well, Cate Blanchett is pretty excellent as well. Which is partly what made it difficult to watch her commit herself completely to that stupid, stupid role.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 4:31 PM on September 21, 2011

Zissou is pretty damn good, A Serious Man is fantastic, and Eyes Wide Shut might be in my top 10 movies of all time.
posted by naju at 4:34 PM on September 21, 2011

Re: Christopher Guest movies, I thought A Mighty Wind was more disappointing than For Your Consideration. I can see FYC as worse, but because AMW was coming off the great Guffman and Best in Show, it was such a let down for me. FYC was lame, but expectedly so.
posted by Saxon Kane at 4:34 PM on September 21, 2011

a David Mamet example

Spanish Prisoner.

No way. Redbelt. Chiwetel Ejiofor gives a pretty good performance in what is legitimately one of the worst movies I've ever seen.
posted by penduluum at 4:35 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

Fantastic Mr. Fox was probably worse than Zissou, no?

That was an awesome film.

I haven't seen Life Aquatic yet, but I did hook up with a girl on New Year's Eve who was dressed in a Steve Zizzou costume, with a whole crew. But the next morning she went to The Darjeeling Limited without me, so I knew it wasn't serious.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 4:39 PM on September 21, 2011

Oh, Dune. I forgive you all of your many, many shortcomings, but...oh, god, weirding modules.
posted by adamdschneider at 4:39 PM on September 21, 2011 [4 favorites]

Nuh uh. Redbelt's a masterpiece.

I did not believe you for a minute, dobbs.

Oh, I wasn't joking. He hates the movie and tried to stop its VHS release.
posted by dobbs at 4:40 PM on September 21, 2011

The music, and the fact that the actors seem to legitimately enjoy making it, is what elevated A Mighty Wind in my opinion.
posted by 2bucksplus at 4:40 PM on September 21, 2011 [3 favorites]

The Keep never made it to DVD

Pretty sure Michael Mann made certain of that.

I wanted to see it after reading about it in a Greg Bear fantasy novel. I had no idea it was real, and it sounds AWESOME.

If One From The Heart is on this list I will hurt somebody.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 4:41 PM on September 21, 2011

If One From The Heart is on this list I will hurt somebody.

I haven't seen that one, but it can't be worse than one of his more recent films Tetro. Ugh.
posted by perhapses at 4:44 PM on September 21, 2011

I wanted to see it after reading about it in a Greg Bear fantasy novel.

Nope, F. Paul Wilson.
posted by Artw at 4:45 PM on September 21, 2011

Gah. Sorry, F. Paul Wilson. wrote it, Greg Bear may very well have mentioned it.
posted by Artw at 4:47 PM on September 21, 2011

I watched The Keep on Netflix instant, recently. It lives up/down to its reputation.
posted by HeroZero at 4:48 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

Its reputation was constructed to KEEP SOMETHING IN.

Not sure the writer of the Glen or Glenda piece was all that clear on the premise, but it's nice they are enthusiastic.
posted by Artw at 4:49 PM on September 21, 2011

I'll agree to calling The Keep Mann's worst just to read an article about it. Miami Vice? Public Enemies? Ugh. Yes, let's talk about The Keep.
posted by fleacircus at 4:53 PM on September 21, 2011

If One From The Heart is on this list I will hurt somebody.

I haven't seen that one, but it can't be worse than one of his more recent films Tetro. Ugh.

Do you like Tom Waits, neon, and faded romance?
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 4:54 PM on September 21, 2011

adamdschneider: "Oh, Dune. I forgive you all of your many, many shortcomings, but...oh, god, weirding modules."

Hey, they were in the book.
posted by Splunge at 4:55 PM on September 21, 2011

Nobody is arguing The Lovely Bones much, are they?
posted by Artw at 4:55 PM on September 21, 2011 [5 favorites]

HeroZero: "I watched The Keep on Netflix instant, recently. It lives up/down to its reputation."

Another movie that I enjoyed. ::Sigh:: I must be broken in the brain area.
posted by Splunge at 4:56 PM on September 21, 2011

I totally understand why some people don't like Zissou.

It's the same reason people hold any other odious and completely wrong opinion.

I feel a Saki coming on: "You needn't tell me that a man who doesn't love oysters and asparagus and good wines has got a soul, or a stomach either. He's simply got the instinct for being unhappy highly developed."
posted by villanelles at dawn at 4:57 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

Oh and, Scott Glenn!
posted by Splunge at 4:58 PM on September 21, 2011

I'll agree to calling The Keep Mann's worst just to read an article about it. Miami Vice? Public Enemies? Ugh. Yes, let's talk about The Keep.

I saw Drive last weekend and was so pleased to discover that somebody was still interested in making great Michael Mann films, even if Michael Mann isn't.
posted by Rangeboy at 5:01 PM on September 21, 2011 [5 favorites]

"Oh, Dune. I forgive you all of your many, many shortcomings, but...oh, god, weirding modules."

Hey, they were in the book.

Nuh uh?
posted by thedaniel at 5:01 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

Do you like Tom Waits, neon, and faded romance?

Two out of three ain't bad, as long as it doesn't include "Luke, I am your father" as the twist ending.
posted by perhapses at 5:02 PM on September 21, 2011

I will be eternally grateful for Fantastic Mr. Fox. Finally a good kids movie. If I had to sit through Power Rangers or Thomas the Tank Engine one more time...
posted by Barry B. Palindromer at 5:02 PM on September 21, 2011 [5 favorites]

A Weirding Module is a sonic weapon introduced in and specific to Dune, the 1984 David Lynch film adaptation of Frank Herbert's 1965 novel of the same name. In the film, the device is a sonic beam weapon that translates specific sounds into attacks of varying potency, used by House Atreides and later by the Fremen armies. In the novel, Paul Atreides and his mother Lady Jessica teach the Fremen the Bene Gesserit martial art referred to by the Fremen as the weirding way.

Director David Lynch is said to have adapted the weirding way into the Weirding Module because he did not like the idea of "Kung-fu on sand dunes".[34] The change literalizes Paul's line "My own name is a killing word." In the novel, the Fremen shout his Fremen name, "Muad'Dib," as a battle cry; in the film, the Fremen are surprised to find that saying "Muad'Dib" is a powerful trigger for the Weirding Module.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 5:04 PM on September 21, 2011 [3 favorites]

My money is on Pirates when they get around to Polanski. What a stinker! P. U.
posted by cazoo at 5:05 PM on September 21, 2011

Taking the piss out of the Life Aquatic is a damn good piece of clickbait if you ask me. I am on the "if you so much as utter nary the slightest uniceties toward The Life Aquatic, I just might look at you askance and wonder if we really ought to be facebook friends or not" side of the argument myself. It truly is a brilliant movie that in my mind, is beyond approach in it's sad weirdness.
posted by roboton666 at 5:09 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

The Life Aquatic just seemed like a parody of Wes Anderson's movies. Also, it was way too easy to tell which parts were his and which were Noah Baumbach's. The extent to which Baumbach has been blamed for the failure of TLA gave me hope that he'd find something to do with his time that didn't involve film. Alas.
posted by pxe2000 at 5:10 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

If One From The Heart is on this list I will hurt somebody.

I'll be holding the somebody down for you. I love One From the Heart.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:10 PM on September 21, 2011

C'mon guys, Bottle Rocket was clearly his worst.

Bottle Rocket is my favorite Anderson film and one of my favorites ever. (It's the first film of his that I saw, and the first film I was with any of the Wilsons, so that might be an influence.)

It's his most earnest and least fussy. I got tired of the fussiness by the time Darjeeling came out, so that's my least favorite of his.

For the record, my least favorite Coen film is The Ladykillers; Scorsese, Bringing Out the Dead (I would've liked it more if Cage had been cut out and it was a Rhames/Goodman buddy pic); Tarantino, Inglourious Basterds; Aronofsky, The Fountain; Malick, The Thin Red Line; Mamet, Oleanna (but nothing he's directed is as good as the James Foley-directed Glengarry Glen Ross); Lynch, Wild at Heart; and I have never seen a Sidney Lumet film I didn't like.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 5:10 PM on September 21, 2011

Lynch, Wild at Heart
I loved this film. More of the 'pure weirdness' and less subtle than something like Blue Velvet (I'm not a fan of subtle).

But I did like Thin Red Line.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 5:11 PM on September 21, 2011

reproach. Damn.
posted by roboton666 at 5:12 PM on September 21, 2011

I have never seen a Sidney Lumet film I didn't like

As much as I love Lumet, he does have some stinkers. I tried watching The Morning After and couldn't finish. Never even given The Wiz or Critical Care a try.
posted by perhapses at 5:13 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

I will be eternally grateful for Fantastic Mr. Fox. Finally a good kids movie.

I saw it again recently, and was (again) stunned by Meryl Streep's line: "I love you. But I shouldn't have married you." Not such an easy scene to explain to a kid, and it's the line that stays with me after the rest of the silliness has faded.
posted by MonkeyToes at 5:15 PM on September 21, 2011 [5 favorites]

Sticherbeast: "De Palma's worst film is not Snake Eyes or Bonfire of the Vanities, but Mission to Mars."

I don't want to be the kind of person who just blurts out how much they hate something when it comes up, but... I can't help it, I'm sorry. I think De Palma's worst film is all of his films. God damn, what a heavy-handed hack!



Artw: "Aw, come on..."

I haven't watched The Keep since one night in '85 or so, out of my mind on mushrooms. I remember some scene with soldiers running towards a light with flowing greatcoats in slow-mo with Tangerine Dream music behind it, and the scene lasted forever. I'm still watching it, in fact.
posted by Red Loop at 5:21 PM on September 21, 2011 [8 favorites]

Aronofsky, The Fountain; Malick, The Thin Red Line

Madness! My faves by each of those directors. I've only disliked one Aronosky: Black Swan; and I've liked every Malick.
posted by dobbs at 5:24 PM on September 21, 2011

I will be eternally grateful for Fantastic Mr. Fox. Finally a good kids movie.

I saw it again recently, and was (again) stunned by Meryl Streep's line: "I love you. But I shouldn't have married you." Not such an easy scene to explain to a kid, and it's the line that stays with me after the rest of the silliness has faded.

Because I am a mature adult, I sometimes find myself singing the 'Bunce, Boggs and Bean' song.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 5:24 PM on September 21, 2011 [4 favorites]

Fantastic Mr. Fox was probably worse than Zissou, no?

What? Cuss you!
posted by padraigin at 5:27 PM on September 21, 2011 [5 favorites]

That there exist people on this earth that would prefer The Royal Tenenbaums to The Life Aquatic is incomprehensible to me. I mean, one has Ben Stiller in it. Another metric I propose is minutes of Bill Murray screentime... this is a good way to quantify the relative greatness of any two movies.
posted by mek at 5:32 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

Gahk. Weirding Modules. I'd blocked that memory out.

I'm not down with David Lynch in general, though. Ever since Lost Highway, I've suspected that most of his oeuvre is a cruel, extended punking of his fans.
posted by EatTheWeek at 5:36 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

dobbs: "I've liked every Malick."

I'm holding my tongue on this one, except to say: I'm glad you've enjoyed them.
posted by Red Loop at 5:39 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

Fantastic Mr. Fox is one of my favorite films.

That acquatic one, yeah, not so much. I refuse to speak its name...
posted by Windopaene at 5:39 PM on September 21, 2011

I'm sorry. As long as Manos: The Hands of Fate and Gummo exist, these people are wrong.

That said, I've never understood the love for The Royal Tenenbaums. At least I remember Bill Murray wanted to avenge a friend. In The Royal Tenenbaums, I think Gwyneth Paltrow smoked or something. And someone played tennis. Or maybe people walked around with tennis rackets.

Anyway, my point being, it's still better than Manos or Gummo.
posted by CarlRossi at 5:44 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

That said, I've never understood the love for The Royal Tenenbaums.

The big weird family. The poignancy. The humor. Every character, hilarious. These Days.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 5:48 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

"Anything Else" is my favorite Woody movie of the last fifteen or so years. It's not "Annie Hall", but he has made at least 5 movies that are epically worse. "Curse of the Jade Scorpion" anyone?
posted by zvs at 5:49 PM on September 21, 2011

The Life Aquatic is one of my favorite movies, if not my very favorite. But I do marine research. And the movie completely gets the profession in every way. All of the characters, however exaggerated, appear in my real life every day. All of the themes and subplots are common in the field. Even the way the whole thing is edited like a Cousteau film... when I was in elementary school we even took up collecting spare change in class to send to Cousteau and we got got sent Cousteau lapel pins in return. So when I saw those Zissou pins in the movie, I just lost it with laughter. I was totally spooked by Aquatic. I don't know how he did it, but all those devices in Aquatic which so many consider "schtick" relate exactly to cultural points shared among marine scientists. So much so that when I force my co-workers to watch Aquatic, many are insulted by the parodies cutting a little too close to the bone.
posted by 3.2.3 at 5:50 PM on September 21, 2011 [31 favorites]

On the plus side, neither the Will Smith nor the Robin Williams version of Kind Hearts and Coronets got made and the fizzling of the Ladykillers remake may have helped with that.

wuh?

I never knew such a thing was planned. Let alone twice. AND I WAS HAPPY THAT WAY, YOU BASTARD. I feel soiled.

At least I now have a clear image in my head of Sir Alec's vengeful wraith clawing its way out of the grave and dragging both Will Smith and Robin Williams down to Hell, but it's not much compensation.

So that's stopped me having to shit in a box and pay postage to Hollywood every week for the rest of my life.

You know, if you get enough people to chip in, you can negotiate a bulk mailing rate with the USPS...
posted by McCoy Pauley at 5:51 PM on September 21, 2011

That said, I've never understood the love for The Royal Tenenbaums.

Yea, I didn't get it at all. Pretentious, overacted and pretty boring. Nice house though.
posted by octothorpe at 5:55 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

Black Swan

I'm reminded of Robert Christgau's review of The Rolling Stones Undercover: "What do people hear in this murky, overblown, incoherent piece of shit?"
posted by Trurl at 5:57 PM on September 21, 2011

Saw Wild At Heart in the theatre on it's release and really enjoyed it. Saw it again recently and, oh brother, it was just wretched. I felt like Lynch had offered a million dollar bonus to whoever delivered the most OTT performance.
posted by stinkycheese at 6:03 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

Saw Wild At Heart in the theatre on it's release and really enjoyed it. Saw it again recently and, oh brother, it was just wretched. I felt like Lynch had offered a million dollar bonus to whoever delivered the most OTT performance.

When did 'over the top' become such a common 'insult' that it needed its on abbreviation? I've noticed this lately, and it bugs me. That's the point of Wild at Heart! Individuality! Nick Cage! Elvis! the road!
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 6:14 PM on September 21, 2011 [3 favorites]

Adaptation. Synecdoche. Vomitorium.
posted by effluvia at 6:15 PM on September 21, 2011

I love the little universe that Wild At Heart and Perdita Durango comprise in their book and film versions.
posted by Artw at 6:22 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

Aww, shit. Now I want to watch The Keep on TV and you're telling me I can't?

NO CASTLE CAN CONTAIN MY RAGE!!!
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:25 PM on September 21, 2011

Fantastic Mr. Fox was probably worse than Zissou, no?

What? Cuss you!

Oh man, the bits where animal instinct takes over kill me. Charmed from the Fox-Badger confrontation onward.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 6:30 PM on September 21, 2011 [3 favorites]

Well, Cate Blanchett is pretty excellent as well. Which is partly what made it difficult to watch her commit herself completely to that stupid, stupid role.

You're talking about Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, right?
posted by Mister Moofoo at 6:31 PM on September 21, 2011 [5 favorites]

Also, I'm pretty sure there's mention in the first Dune book of a "sound weapon" of some kind.
Once. In passing.
posted by Mister Moofoo at 6:32 PM on September 21, 2011

I have a sudden urge to register "Bobby Peru" as a sockpuppet.
posted by Trurl at 6:33 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

I got engaged the same night I saw Fantastic Mr. Fox in the theater.

Obviously, I'm pro.
posted by Windigo at 6:34 PM on September 21, 2011 [4 favorites]

Well, if everyone hates A Life Aquatic, I guess the silver lining is that no one has to see me crying like a baby EVERY TIME at this scene.
posted by oinopaponton at 6:34 PM on September 21, 2011 [7 favorites]

Dissing movies that you don't like. What a dumb idea.

But while we're at it, there is a logical reason why Kubrick died when editing Eyes Wide Shut.
posted by ovvl at 6:35 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

Yay! It's time to drag this out!
posted by Windigo at 6:47 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

But while we're at it, there is a logical reason why Kubrick died when editing Eyes Wide Shut.

So that he didn't get to have AI as his worst movie?
posted by Artw at 6:53 PM on September 21, 2011 [4 favorites]

Towards the end of The Darjeeling Limited, there's a scene in which the brothers, having begun at last to heal themselves of the emotional damage inflicted by their recently deceased father, sprint towards the titular train and joyfully fling away from themselves the cumbersome bespoke luggage they've inherited from him. (Said sprinting is done in slow motion, it goes without saying.)

It is a movie in which "emotional baggage" is symbolized by "actual literal baggage."

The prosecution rests its case.
posted by Ian A.T. at 7:10 PM on September 21, 2011 [12 favorites]

It is a movie in which "emotional baggage" is symbolized by "actual literal baggage."

Yeah, but that scene is set to the Kinks' "Powerman," which you'll find goes a long way toward making up for whatever else the movie does wrong.
posted by Rangeboy at 7:45 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

Intolerable Cruelty gets bad press for poor reasons, I think. It's a great tribute to, and homage of, Billy Wilder. Think of it as a lost Billy Wilder movie instead of a Coen Bros. movie. (Compare "Darling, you're exposed!" with "But that's another story" (Irma la Douce) or "Type O" (Some Like It Hot) or the -wise suffix (The Apartment)). Recognizing it as an old school screwball comedy -- a movie where a battle of wits and wittiness stands in for sex and generates sexual tension -- made it thrilling for me and I found it hilarious. I love those old movies and wish that more screwballs could get made.

After The Ladykillers, I'd say True Grit is probably their next worst. It's an enjoyable enough movie, but it doesn't spur discussion the way their other movies do. It's good fluff, but their other movies are more than fluff. (Even Intolerable Cruelty.)
posted by painquale at 7:47 PM on September 21, 2011 [3 favorites]

Just realized that it's their remakes that I don't like so much. That makes sense to me.
posted by painquale at 7:51 PM on September 21, 2011

Seeing as how I'd spend $8 to watch Bill Murray fuck around onscreen for 2 hours, I think The Life Aquatic is quite fantastic. Also, it's poignant and subtle, so those add up to a good thing.
posted by Turkey Glue at 7:59 PM on September 21, 2011

Turkey Glue, how is LA subtle? It's about as overt as one can be. That's why I hate it so. That scene that oinopaponton linked to is everything but subtle. It's clawing and overwrought from performance to set design to music--I burst out laughing when that Sigur Ros song came on. (For someone who has such a keen ear for music in his previous films, it was stunning how off Zisou was in this regard.)

I understand there are people who dig it but ... subtle? My eyes are bugging out on that one.
posted by dobbs at 8:05 PM on September 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

Madness! My faves by each of those directors. I've only disliked one Aronosky: Black Swan; and I've liked every Malick.

Mm-hm. I don't really dislike any Malick, but Thin Red Line rests at the bottom of that tiny heap anyway.

I'm not entirely sure what Black Swan is, but whatever it is, it's really, really that.

My favorite Malick is Badlands and my favorite Aronofsky is Pi. As I mentioned above, my favorite Anderson is Bottle Rocket; maybe I just like debuts.

Oh! I forgot to mention DePalma! I think he is awful, but his worst is Raising Cain.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 8:12 PM on September 21, 2011

Badlands was too short/normal for me. I thought it would be more like the short story or the song, more surreal.

DePalma is awesome. Phantom of the Paradise is the movie Rocky Horror Picture Show would be if it was a bit more serious.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 8:14 PM on September 21, 2011

Your least-favorite movie doesn't suck enough.
posted by bevedog at 8:18 PM on September 21, 2011 [7 favorites]

Surprised at all the Thin Red Line hate.. I mean, he has made three films in his current "late" period... Thin Red Line, The New World and Tree of Life.. after Thin Red Line, the other two copy its style to an annoying level.. plus Thin Red Line is the most consistent of the three. New World had shitty Colin Farrel and some weak moments.. and The Tree of Life was a hot mess which also had some very cool moments but inconsistent performances and a rambling story. How anyone could deem an epic like Thin Red Line to be Malick's worst is definitely missing something.

And, for the record, I think Wes Anderson sucks too.
posted by ReeMonster at 8:22 PM on September 21, 2011

I guess The Life Aquatic really isn't for everyone. Ladykillers though, I thought that was just gold with Tom Hanks. Guess it also isn't for everyone.
posted by Slackermagee at 8:46 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

I recently saw a screening of Pi at Lincoln Center's theater. I used to think that I loved that movie, but seeing it again for the first time in easily a decade, it felt incredibly dated.
posted by Threeway Handshake at 9:17 PM on September 21, 2011

I recently saw a screening of Pi at Lincoln Center's theater. I used to think that I loved that movie, but seeing it again for the first time in easily a decade, it felt incredibly dated.

Yeah same. I can't count how many low-fi existential mindfuck mathematical sci-fi films I've seen in the past few years. its just got so cliche, ya know?
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 9:19 PM on September 21, 2011

What else do we think is going to be on here?

Spielberg -- Hook? Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull?
Francis Ford Coppola - Jack?
posted by HeroZero at 9:20 PM on September 21, 2011

Del Toro - Blade II
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 9:21 PM on September 21, 2011

"You take that back, you god damned monster!"

I believe you mean "You gosh-cussed monster."

"I really liked the Life Aquatic. I mean, Bill Murray."

YES. This. I like to think of The Life Aquatic as a parable for Bill Murray's career. Something about the washed up actor in Lost In Translation and its successs fits so well with the success of Steve Zissou's final, finally true movie.

But really, I think I'm just a huge sucker for those signature Anderson cut-away panoramas. I really fell in love with them on The Life Aquatic's tour of the submarine, but I love them all. And I've gone out and bought the soundtracks to both The Life Aquatic and Fantastic Mr. Fox. Turns out I like Bowie covers better than Bowie and the Fox soundtrack is just really cheery.
posted by maryr at 9:24 PM on September 21, 2011

Francis Ford Coppola - Jack?

Gotta admit... I only like 3 of his films. Usually, I think his movies are pretty awful and I feel he's one of the most overrated directors ever.
posted by dobbs at 9:25 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

Ugh, The Fountain. Requiem for a Dream was like being punched repeatedly in the gut, but it worked. The Fountain had some pretty parts but did not work at all for me.
posted by infinitewindow at 9:26 PM on September 21, 2011

Gotta admit... I only like 3 of his films.

Which ones? I like Godfather I & II and The Conversation and sometimes Apocalypse Now and that's it.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 9:30 PM on September 21, 2011

Yeah same. I can't count how many low-fi existential mindfuck mathematical sci-fi films I've seen in the past few years. its just got so cliche, ya know?

...which would seem to make the concept possibly more dated. Dated != cliche.
posted by maryr at 9:36 PM on September 21, 2011

What's dated about Pi?
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 9:38 PM on September 21, 2011

The Thin Red Line is undoubtedly Malick's worst. Bathetic cod-philosophy. Great music, though.

Francis Ford Coppola gets a lot of undeserved hate. Coppola's one of those guys where people mocked him for being quixotic and stagey, but years later, his work is aging a hell of a lot better than most other stuff. He's weird and ambitious and, when he's at his best, always playing. Tucker, Tetro, Peggy Sue Got Married, and Dracula are all A-OK in my book. Bring it, haters.

Wild at Heart isn't terrible, but it is the trough of Lynch's career wave. Just a bunch of crap and misogyny and "oh isn't this cool." Some good moments, some good performances, but mostly, it gives an unfairly bad name to the idea of getting an A-list "artist" to make a genre film.

What's dated about Pi?

It comes from an era where you could make a grubby independent movie and hope to have it spur a career of stylish, effective films.
posted by Sticherbeast at 9:44 PM on September 21, 2011

I loved Fantastic Mr. Fox, largely because it's been one of my favorite books since I first read it.

Intolerable Cruelty features two of the most beautiful people in the world at near-maximum hotness. For eye-candy reasons alone it's not the worst Coen Brothers movie. (Spoiler: it's The Ladykillers.)
posted by kirkaracha at 9:49 PM on September 21, 2011

Which ones? I like Godfather I & II and The Conversation

Yeah, that's it.
posted by dobbs at 10:03 PM on September 21, 2011

All of Aronofsky's craps look dated a couple years after they come out. Can anyone even stand watching Requiem anymore? He's just a hack, flash in the pan type movie maker. He won't be remembered long from now.
posted by ReeMonster at 10:12 PM on September 21, 2011

All of Aronofsky's craps look dated a couple years after they come out. Can anyone even stand watching Requiem anymore? He's just a hack, flash in the pan type movie maker. He won't be remembered long from now.

Nobody can stand watching Requiem. That's why its so brilliant.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 10:13 PM on September 21, 2011

I could (and do) re-watch Pi and The Fountain. I won't re-watch Requiem, but it registers as hamfistedly manipulative to me. I don't consider that a sign of brilliance.

But then I just re-watched Inception and for the second time gave it a big ole meh, so maybe I'm beyond hope.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 10:16 PM on September 21, 2011

Coppola: Jack
(just shooting fish in a barrel with that one)

Scorsese: Bringing Out The Dead
(you've really got to roll the hard six with Nicholas Cage in your leading role, and he didn't there)

Wes Anderson: Bottle Rocket
(It's not terrible, but it's not nearly as accomplished as anything he's done since. It gets a huge boost from the "your first album was better" crowd, but it's just nowhere near as good as his later works. I'm on the Tenenbaums side of the Rushmore-vs-Tenenbaums debate, though, so YMMV)

Woody Allen: Anything Else isn't a bad call, but yeah, Allen is ridiculously hit-or-miss, so it's hard to say. I think Small Time Crooks is a piece of shit but it was also a comeback film of sorts for him, so whose to say? (By the way, I vote Manhattan for his best, and think Deconstructing Harry deserves a spot near the top as well)

Tarantino: Death Proof
(And I like Death Proof, but his output as a director has been shockingly solid, really. I rewatched his segment in Four Rooms last week and even that is kick ass. From Dusk Til Dawn is probably off of the table due to the way it was credited, but seeing as he actually directed the far-stronger first half of that, well, no, that's kick ass too. Death Proof had too much lollygagging, as good as it's good moments were.)

Romero: There's Always Vanilla

Kevin Smith: Clerks 2
(He wore out his welcome pretty damned fast, obviously, but he's not entirely without talent, and this movie showed no joy, had almost no laughter and... I just really hate this one.)

More as I think of them.
posted by Navelgazer at 10:29 PM on September 21, 2011

Scorsese: Bringing Out The Dead

that's a perfect Into the Night movie
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 10:31 PM on September 21, 2011

Don't talk to me about Into the Night movies.
posted by Navelgazer at 11:24 PM on September 21, 2011

Also never willing to rewatch Requiem under any circumstances whatsoever. I dug Black Swan though.
posted by EatTheWeek at 11:28 PM on September 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

Death Proof is also one of my favourite movies, so you can just all die in a fire now.
posted by mek at 11:56 PM on September 21, 2011

Was all prepared to get pissed off about Steve Zissou hate but artw is back so refer to whatever he says till I sober up.

As for Scorsese there is a lot of hate for Age of Innocence, still like it better than Bringing Out the Dead which was oddly similar to Broken Vessels.

Anyway, is Dead Man the worst Jarmusch film? I vote for yes and I saw the 4hour version at the Angelika.
posted by Ad hominem at 1:03 AM on September 22, 2011

Whenever they show pi in the movie Pi, it's accurate for, like, 12 digits, and then becomes completely random. I know more digits than that, so when I first saw it, it made the whole movie feel like the work of a lazy poseur.
posted by painquale at 1:06 AM on September 22, 2011 [5 favorites]

Can't believe all the Wild At Heart hate, it is much better than Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me.
posted by Ad hominem at 1:10 AM on September 22, 2011

The Cohen bros. worst film was No Country For Old Men.

My god, what an over-rated turd that was.
posted by bardic at 2:49 AM on September 22, 2011 [2 favorites]

From Dusk Til Dawn is probably off of the table due to the way it was credited, but seeing as he actually directed the far-stronger first half of that, well, no, that's kick ass too.

I enjoy FDTD, but QT did not direct the first half. He wrote the script.
posted by Sticherbeast at 4:29 AM on September 22, 2011 [1 favorite]

Anyway, is Dead Man the worst Jarmusch film?

Here I am apparently lending further proof to the "every film is someone's favorite film" cliche, but I so strongly disagree.

(And with his work, I don't know if "best" or "worst" applies so much as "most Jarmusch" or "least Jarmusch." It may be the least Jarmusch, but Dead Man is the one I've most wanted to rewatch.)
posted by psoas at 4:59 AM on September 22, 2011 [1 favorite]

While I agree that De Palma's probable worst is Mission To Mars, my version of it (which is entirely about the, you know, MISSION TO MARS, and edits out all the creepy macho posturing, Disney aliens, wooden glurge, and ludicrously inept things-real-astronauts-would-never-do) is awesome, if very short, and finds the bits which are actually the parts of the movie it could have been. That movie probably isn't great, but it's good (it doesn't have the "WOOODYYYYYYY!!!!!" scene in it, for one thing).

And I love The Thin Red Line, but I can see how some people might hate it.
posted by biscotti at 5:40 AM on September 22, 2011

While I agree that De Palma's probable worst is Mission To Mars, my version of it (which is entirely about the, you know, MISSION TO MARS, and edits out all the creepy macho posturing, Disney aliens, wooden glurge, and ludicrously inept things-real-astronauts-would-never-do) is awesome, if very short, and finds the bits which are actually the parts of the movie it could have been. That movie probably isn't great, but it's good (it doesn't have the "WOOODYYYYYYY!!!!!" scene in it, for one thing).

For me, the only good part of MtM is the very opening and the sequence which begins with Jerry O'Connell getting hit by meteorites. The rest shows that De Palma can't do glurge and that he doesn't care enough about science to make good sci-fi.

That said, I am sad that De Palma never got to make his version of The Demolished Man.
posted by Sticherbeast at 5:46 AM on September 22, 2011

So that he didn't get to have AI as his worst movie?

This is as good a moment as any to point out that Ebert has finally added AI to his list of Great Movies, despite having only given it three stars when it first came out.
posted by Sticherbeast at 5:58 AM on September 22, 2011

So... he's senile now?
posted by Artw at 6:29 AM on September 22, 2011 [2 favorites]

Fantastic Mr. Fox was probably worse than Zissou, no?

No.

*click, whistle, snap, wink*
posted by doyouknowwhoIam? at 6:58 AM on September 22, 2011 [1 favorite]

What's dated about Pi?

In hindsight, Pi is composed entirely of gimmicks.

Grainy, high contrast film.
Repetition.
JUNGLE MUSIC.
Strange, unrealistic computers.

Mostly though, it is the jungle music. I could barely sit through the entire thing.

N.B. I am a person who, to this day, names their computer Euclid.
posted by Threeway Handshake at 7:15 AM on September 22, 2011

I'm kind of astounded that Lovely Bones is considered Peter Jackson's worst film. I walked out of King Kong.
posted by tylerfulltilt at 7:23 AM on September 22, 2011 [3 favorites]

Because I am a mature adult, I sometimes find myself singing the 'Bunce, Boggs and Bean' song.

*Boggis, Bunce & Bean?

My kids and I sing it together.
posted by doyouknowwhoIam? at 7:31 AM on September 22, 2011 [1 favorite]

So... he's senile now?
I don't know, Ebert's updated review works pretty well as meta-criticism of Spielberg's complete inability to understand both the source material and Kubrick's interpretation of it.
Just came across this hilarious quote from Chris Foss, who apparently did the conceptual art for Kubrick.

'"Kubrick used to come in with a page of script and I'd visualise what he was doing. I told him that he'd got me started on my science fiction career when he made 2001: A Space Odyssey. He said 'Yeah and I'll finish you too' and he damn nearly did. He was a hard taskmaster. I put a sign saying Prisoner Cell Block 8 on my office door." Still, things weren't all bad during that period: "I was bonking [Kubrick's] god daughter at the time, unbelievably. She was this naughty model"

Also I can't believe anyone in their right mind can diss the Keep.
posted by SyntacticSugar at 7:36 AM on September 22, 2011 [2 favorites]

One of the reasons I like Life Aquatic is that it sort of seems like an an answer to, "What if Buckaroo Banzai was just sort of a loser?"

Also, movie threads (even more than books threads, amazingly) illustrate so clearly how almost everyone thinks they have won, in the words of Scott Bakker, the Magical Belief Lottery. YOU ARE WRONG, THAT MOVIE COMPLETELY SUCKED/ROCKED, OBJECTIVELY.
posted by adamdschneider at 7:52 AM on September 22, 2011 [4 favorites]

So... he's senile now?

Ouch! I love AI. I thought it was a fantastically realized SF world (and oddly true to Aldiss's source material, considering how long it was in development).
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:00 AM on September 22, 2011

I love In the Cut, and I feel like its critic did not understand the subtext of the film. She writes that there's no reason Meg Ryan should be sexually pursued because they didn't make her look attractive in the way most movies do, and that attachments seem unearned. That the film is a sentimental love story.

It seems to me that the film is specifically about how love and sex are dangerous and threatening to women. So it's quite deliberate that attachments are unearned--the men romantically pursuing Frannie are all threatening. The film often replays the footage of her father ice skating and proposing to her mother, and at a key point it turns into him killing her instead. In many ways beyond the M.O. of the serial killer, the film equates the two. The changes from the novel she mentions are done deliberately to underline that point.
posted by heatvision at 8:51 AM on September 22, 2011

I just don't understand people who hate 1941. Sure, it's not a perfect film; in many places it's wildly uneven, but there is so much great stuff going on in it.

The whole dance sequence is magnificent, that alone should be enough to take it off any "worst movie" list, but add into that the brilliance that was Wild Bill Kelso, and the quantity and quality of weird quotable moments, and you have a movie that might not ever be called one of the greatest, but is completely re-watchable and still has no end of laugh out loud moments.

(To this day I still want a P-40K Warhawk just because of this movie. I also say "Oh look, a baby wolf" when I want to distract people.)
posted by quin at 9:00 AM on September 22, 2011 [1 favorite]

Ugh, The Fountain. Requiem for a Dream was like being punched repeatedly in the gut, but it worked. The Fountain had some pretty parts but did not work at all for me.
posted by infinitewindow at 9:26 PM on September 21 [+] [!]

The Fountain is a difficult film to fully appreciate - to get the total effect, it helps to have a close loved one die very recently prior to watching the film. Understandably, most audiences were reluctant to invest that much in their filmgoing experience.
posted by FatherDagon at 9:38 AM on September 22, 2011 [3 favorites]

but holy shit does it work, few films still get me as choked up as that one... damn I love it so
posted by FatherDagon at 9:40 AM on September 22, 2011 [2 favorites]

In hindsight, Pi is composed entirely of gimmicks.

Dude, you forgot the best part! He's being randomly stalked by Condi Rice!
posted by psoas at 9:49 AM on September 22, 2011 [1 favorite]

C'mon, where else am I to get my Gangster Hasid fix? Snatch? Ok, where else?
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 10:10 AM on September 22, 2011

Q: What is the worst Mike Leigh movie?

A: NONE OF THEM. NONE OF THEM IS THE WORST.
posted by arcticwoman at 10:16 AM on September 22, 2011

I find the question of "good" or "bad" is relatively useless critically. Most films that are terrible go unnoticed or become blockbusters, but are universally regarded as being the useless things that they are. With other films, what is discussed regarding their goodness or badness are actually questions of taste, which will always be idiosyncratic.

The only thing I ask in regard to a film is "is it interesting or is it tedious?" Each one of these films is interesting. My God, you could watch "Glen or Glenda" a million times and it would never fail to be interesting! Eyes Wide Shut is bound to stick with you, as it the Thin Red Line, as is Life Aquatic, etc.

Badness slips into forgeability quickly, or goes unnoticed. I could name a thousand bad films, and you would either not recognize the name (Blood Gnome) or have ceased thinking about the film altogether (Meet Dave). Badness passes. Interestingness is forever, and should be valued, rather than subjected to arbitrary and entirely uninteresting questions of taste.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 10:30 AM on September 22, 2011 [1 favorite]

a David Mamet example

Spartan; it's not even close. That movie was unforgivably execrable.
posted by LuckySeven~ at 10:35 AM on September 22, 2011

Ouch! I love AI. I thought it was a fantastically realized SF world (and oddly true to Aldiss's source material, considering how long it was in development).

There's a pretty good adaptation of Supertoys in there, it just happens to be bout 20 minutes of a hugely inflated running time. And TBH I find all the emphasis on world-building and adding all this hugely ornate stuff to it rather puzzling when it's a simple story that really doesn't require much world building at all. Also, stretched to that length the mawkishness of the thing becomes toxic, even before you have Speilberg direct it.

It could have been a disaster that would have rated as Kubrick s worst movie. It's probably the worst movie with his name on it unless there's other side projects of his I don't know about. It isn't Spielberg's worst, but that's what you might call a target rich environment. I really don't know why anyone would think it belongs on any list of best movies.
posted by Artw at 10:35 AM on September 22, 2011

The Card Cheat: I actually groaned out loud when Scorcese fired up "Gimme Shelter" during the first scene of The Departed. Way to let us know you're on autopilot, Marty.

Wasn't that the first track in "Mean Streets" too? I tried to watch "Mean Streets" and it was poisoned for me by the constant blaring 1950s and 1960s soundtrack interruptions that have also appeared in every single Martin Scorsese movie ever made since, many of which I'd seen before seeing "Mean Streets." He is Exhibit A for the argument that it's best to watch a director's movies in chronological order.

ReeMonster: He's just a hack, flash in the pan type movie maker. He won't be remembered long from now.

That's a statement that can be safely made about almost all but a couple dozen directors, isn't it?

Bunny Ultramod: Eyes Wide Shut is bound to stick with you, as it the Thin Red Line, as is Life Aquatic, etc.

I can honestly say that absolutely nothing about "Eyes Wide shut" stuck with me. It had Tom Cruise wandering around in the dark gnashing his teeth in masks, right?
posted by blucevalo at 10:42 AM on September 22, 2011

Yeah, the first twenty minutes are the best. I thought Kubrick and Spielberg nicely balanced one another's respective cynicism and optimism and thought it visually a treat, but a lot of my own sentiment over the movie is likely overspill from the terrific ARG
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:43 AM on September 22, 2011

It was so much worse than the ARG that I actually walked out of it angry. Though I do have the poster with my email address on it.
posted by empath at 10:45 AM on September 22, 2011

It had Tom Cruise wandering around in the dark gnashing his teeth in masks, right?

You may be thinking of one of the Mission: Impossible films.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 10:50 AM on September 22, 2011

Tim Krieder Eyes Wide Shut Review
posted by This, of course, alludes to you at 11:00 AM on September 22, 2011 [1 favorite]

Tim Krieder Eyes Wide Shut Review

+1, was just about to post that. Reading it a few years ago entirely changed my perspective about Eyes Wide Shut. It's an incredibly dense movie that people are still very much in the process of decoding.
posted by naju at 11:07 AM on September 22, 2011

I thought the appalling mawkishness of AI was kind of the point. When I saw it in theaters, a whole bunch of people around me were sobbing at the fate of what was essentially a program stuck on infinite loop. It was perverse. The movie presented a machine whose agency was closer to that of a Roomba than a human and gave him an alien simulacrum of genuine emotions. The little robot didn't really love; he was a collection of superficial tricks. The movie then subjected its audience to the very same sort of superficial and cloying tricks that the robots presented to their owners. Many audience members were taken in by these tricks and felt genuine emotion, and a bunch of others rebelled, just like characters in the movie. Whether or not this was intentional (I think it was), it made me consider some really interesting questions about the role we want emotional response to play in our lives. That's why I consider the movie a success.
posted by painquale at 11:30 AM on September 22, 2011 [11 favorites]

I actually hold AI in pretty high esteem, specifically because the actual message is both directly opposite of what it initially seems to present, and dead on to what both directors would seem to aspire to. The real story is about the creation of a complete sociopath / p-zombie, someone who desires similar things to a 'real' person but for completely empty/manufactured reasons, and is only able to mimic emotional affect without possessing any of the character resonance those emotions would actually grant. He wanders through the world, attracting assistance from other characters and then discarding them immediately when their usefulness to his quest ends. When confronted with evidence his own artificiality and emptiness, his reaction isn't just confusion or panic - it is immediate, murderous rage. And at the end, when the futurebots basically say 'we're working on bringing humans back for good, but it's a ways off - if we bring your mom back now we'll never be able to grant her life, ever again'. Balanced between what would satisfy his immediate urges and what would be best for his mother (from either viewpoint - letting her rest, or waiting until she can be resurrected for real), there is no conflict at all - David's personal urges trump 'actual' concern over anyone else, without question.

It's no coincidence that the terrible head of the robot gladiator show is dressed like Indiana Jones and rides around in a giant Amblin films reference (the hyperpresent full moon, itself only capable of reflecting light rather than generating its own)... the character was a proxy for Spielberg himself (and through him, Kubrick), openly saying that not only were the robots false, they were designed specifically to garner sympathy through false portrayals of emotion. And as his position of 'director', he's speaking not only of the robots in the story, but criticizing the function of empty spectacle storytelling itself. 'This entire film is a sham, and if you take it at face value you are being lied to!' Sort of a pre-Inception kind of deal, really.

There's a lot more to AI than most people credit it - I would compare the mawkishness of it's presentation with the artificially hyper-wooden performances of the first half of 'Mulholland Drive', a deliberate affectation to serve as an overt curtain, concealing the true 'story'.
posted by FatherDagon at 11:30 AM on September 22, 2011 [9 favorites]

I owe you a coke, painquale.
posted by FatherDagon at 11:31 AM on September 22, 2011 [1 favorite]

Whoa, that was a pretty amazing coincidence. I'm glad to see others interpreted the movie as I did! I love AI.
posted by painquale at 11:33 AM on September 22, 2011

Now, if I'd seen it that way rather than as The Little Uncanny Valley That Could I'd probably have liked it more.
posted by Artw at 11:41 AM on September 22, 2011

Ebert's review, linked upthread, seems to agree with your readings--and has interesting things to say about Monica's actions and resurrection as well. I've always viewed the movie as morally interesting because David's programming conspires to create what could really only ever be his own personal view of hell, thanks to mankind's intrinsic mortality and 'botkind's intrinsic immortality. It's only the fact that our own lives end that casts love in a positive light, rather than reducing it to a prison.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 12:01 PM on September 22, 2011 [1 favorite]

I completely agree with FatherDragon and painquale. AI is a strange, dense film with many ironies. It's also important to remember that the film is a fairy tale being told to robots. It's a version of Pinocchio written by a puppet, to other puppets. The movie is endlessly fascinating for me, and I think it's a crying shame that people write it off because they can't fathom Spielberg directing such a knotty story.

Further, in the DVD special features, Spielberg himself makes some remarks which jibe with the interpretation upthread. He tells a hypothetical about a toothbrush which has been programmed to be your friend in the morning - it knows your name, it listens to your problems, it gives you advice, etc. At the end of the day, no matter how convincing it is, it's still a toothbrush. Maybe if you broke the toothbrush, you'd feel sad, but that's only because the toothbrush's externals were so convincing. At what point could the toothbrush ever be said to be alive in the same sense that anything else is? Most importantly, asks Spielberg, when would your responsibilities to the toothbrush attach?

It's also reminiscent of the bit from Hofstadter and Dennett's The Mind's I where a man is ordered to club to "death" a purr-filled cat-like robot. He can hardly bring himself to do it, only because it's such a convincing imitation. The cat-like robot is like the Searle's Chinese Room of "being alive."
posted by Sticherbeast at 12:14 PM on September 22, 2011

Ebert is close, but I'm wondering if he saw the same cut as I did.

"Now again there are events which contradict David's conception of himself. In an eerie scene, he comes across a storeroom containing dozens of Davids who look just like him. Is he devastated? Does he thrash out at them? No, he remains possessed. He is still focused on his quest for the Blue Fairy, who can make him a real little boy."

Does he thrash out at them? *No?* Did Ebert miss the core characterization event of the entire film, where David turns into a spinning murder-top focused only on the complete brutal annihilation of anything that calls into question his entire mental framework?
posted by FatherDagon at 12:20 PM on September 22, 2011 [2 favorites]

Doesn't David destroy the version of himself who talks to him, but then later encounter a room filled with packaged versions of him, and in that later room, he is only able to stand transfixed before getting back to his mission?
posted by Sticherbeast at 12:30 PM on September 22, 2011

Man, rewatching that scene reminds me of how unnerving it is, especially in the context of the entire rest of the film's shiny child's-view adventure - an instantaneous psychotic break, whereupon David continues to mechanically attack the air in a distorted attempt to destroy the IDEA long after the physical thing is broken - with no concept of how his actions affect the world around him or how to really direct his efforts towards a satisfying end on anything beyond the immediate surface level.

Then, immediately thereafter, Dr. H comes in as the Gepetto figure and intervenes - whereupon David *instantly* changes his emotional effect to 'cloying child needing help', without for a second betraying a single indication that he is even AWARE of what he just did... because he has no internal reflection at all. Even creepier, Dr. H immediately buys into it and shows no awareness of the fact that one robot just bludgeoned another to death... that the natural product of his programmed love is overwhelming jealous rage. Because to Dr. H, the dead robot is just an object, a broken toothbrush. And yet he remains invested in the 'living' David, validating his emotional displays seemingly whole-heartedly.

Seriously, that movie is fucked up and unsettling in all the best ways.
posted by FatherDagon at 12:36 PM on September 22, 2011 [5 favorites]

C'mon, where else am I to get my Gangster Hasid fix? Snatch? Ok, where else?

Safe Men: Steve Zahn, Sam Rockwell, and my first exposure to Peter Dinklage. It's a fun movie.
posted by quin at 4:24 PM on September 22, 2011 [1 favorite]

Outlaw Vern has a nice defense
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 4:42 PM on September 22, 2011

Anyway, is Dead Man the worst Jarmusch film?

You obviously haven't seen The Limits of Control yet, have you?
posted by dobbs at 8:40 PM on September 22, 2011 [1 favorite]

FSM help me, you guys are convincing me to give AI another chance. You're very persuasive. But I found it so tedious the first time around!
posted by harriet vane at 2:34 AM on September 23, 2011

I suspect that reading FatherDagon and painquale's interpretation of it is going to be far more interesting than any actual rewatch.
posted by Artw at 10:09 AM on September 23, 2011

I hate heist movies. Bottle Rocket is my favorite heist movie, though.
posted by wobh at 9:58 AM on September 24, 2011

I'd assume you meant the remake, but I refuse to acknowledge it exists, some I'm going to go ahead and just decide that you had some knd of hallucination you are complaining about.
posted by Artw at 11:23 AM on September 24, 2011 [2 favorites]

"Which is the shittest remake of a Michael Caine movie" would actually be a really tough question.
posted by Artw at 12:27 PM on September 24, 2011 [1 favorite]

Ladies and gentlemen, we have opened wide the gates of hell.
posted by Artw at 5:31 PM on September 24, 2011

Even the original Italian Job blows. Never understood the appeal of that movie.
posted by dobbs at 9:26 PM on September 27, 2011

You poor thing.
posted by Artw at 9:34 PM on September 27, 2011 [1 favorite]

Even the original Italian Job blows.

Yes. The bloody doors off.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 2:20 AM on September 28, 2011 [2 favorites]

"Upon watching Shutter Island you will experience a mountain dread that it will have one of two hackneyed twist endings. It turns out to be the second one, the one that isn't used by The Sixth Sense. CONDEMNED FOREVER."

Spoilery discussion of the end of Shutter Island for those of us who haven't seen it and just want to know what happened.

FWIW, after reading that, I added it to my NFI queue. YMMV.
posted by Eideteker at 8:34 AM on September 29, 2011

I think we can all agree that Wes Anderson's best movie is Harold & Maude.
posted by Eideteker at 9:23 AM on September 29, 2011

A mountain dread?

It's a doggie dog world.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 10:01 AM on September 29, 2011

Even the original Italian Job blows. Never understood the appeal of that movie.
posted by dobbs at 12:26 AM on September 28 [+] [!]

It has possibly my favorite ending of any movie ever, so there's that. In fairness, I don't remember much about the rest of it. Cole Porter or someone as a prison based crimelord? Is that in there?
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 12:18 PM on September 29, 2011