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Still Waters Run Deep
October 20, 2011 8:55 PM Subscribe

The upcoming sandbox action game Saints Row: The Third has been getting attention for being a blast of anarchy and absurdity in a mostly staid gaming landscape. However, indie game developer and blogger Anna Anthropy argues that Saints Row 2 is has some exciting ideas about gender and gender presentation and allows for a much broader range of characters than the usual gruff action hero clones. A live action Saints Row 3 ad suggests it too will have this customization.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn (66 comments total) 18 users marked this as a favorite

Having the "Stone Cold Stunner" as one of its melee attacks put this title on the buy list for me...
posted by First Post at 9:11 PM on October 20, 2011

Can't wait for this (although with Skyrim hitting days before, I probably will wait on it a while). Saints Row 2 is so awesome I got Worfmto autograph my copy.
posted by yellowbinder at 9:13 PM on October 20, 2011

*Worf to
posted by yellowbinder at 9:14 PM on October 20, 2011

I don't know anything about Saints Row, but I just watched that "blast" trailer and...when I was in film school I had an idea for an action movie which started out with two men shooting at each other, followed by two solid hours of steadily escalating violence and ending with a shot of the Earth exploding.

Looks like I should have gone into the video game industry.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:21 PM on October 20, 2011 [4 favorites]

Yeup. This is why I have 20 hours on Saints Row 2 and only 3 on GTA: San Andreas. As much as I enjoy the GTA franchise, there's something about a game where I can build a dykey Asian gangster girl (that does nothing but jack cars and commit insurance fraud for profit) that just pulls me in as a gamer. You're not forced into playing the storyline and the city is yours to explore - so few game developers understand how important this is for players like me. I don't thrive on structure! I love wasting time! I often resent my territories being attacked because then I have to stop stealing cars and start killing NPCs. They are a thorn in my idle ass.

Thus: Saints Row 3 is on my pre-order list. The trailers make me think it should be my game of the year.
posted by saturnine at 9:24 PM on October 20, 2011 [5 favorites]

I have SR2 and I'll definitely give them full points on chargen. I must subsequently take back all those points for the driving controls of the game, then uninstall it and never play it again.
posted by Edogy at 9:30 PM on October 20, 2011

The gender thing was one of my favorite SR2 elements; it added something really hilarious to the absurdity of gameplay to me that my character was obviously female in appearance-- I equipped her with the miniskirt when I found it; boobs, etc, a GIANT afro with a purple streak in the middle, and the voice of an angry Cockney man.

I never finished the main plot 'cause every time I play I get distracted by the "go into a neighborhood and cause as much property damage as possible" mission. The "go into a neighborhood with a sewage truck and spray shit everywhere" one is pretty ace too.

Yahtzee reviewed SR2 and I think the point he made is valid: anything that you can think of to do that is silly, evil and/or horrifying probably has a mission in which you get money to do that. Also, your character is basically a Batman villain.

Anyway, if this one is in the same vein but more so, I'll be thrilled.
posted by NoraReed at 9:30 PM on October 20, 2011 [7 favorites]

Oh, also SR2 let you do customization at anytime with the "plastic surgery" thing. I know this is common in games, but it lets you change your voice actor and your gender; it basically just sends you into character creation again and lets you do whatever you want. Sick of being a dude? Be a lady. Sick of being a lady? Be a dude. Sick of being either? Be both. No restart necessary.
posted by NoraReed at 9:33 PM on October 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

So is the Saints Row franchise deliberately absurdist? It certainly looks like the new game will be, but wasn't the original pretty much a straightforward gangster/street criminal game?
posted by infinitywaltz at 9:44 PM on October 20, 2011

I thought I was the only one doing thick-butt Asian gangster girls that straight up gun-fuck you. Then I discovered saturnine. It's like finding out that I have a sister. Who wants to join you in mega-crimes against an innocent populace.
posted by beaucoupkevin at 9:47 PM on October 20, 2011 [6 favorites]

Yup. All the fun got sucked out of the GTA games and ended up in Saints Row (and then some).

The only thing I love to do half-seriously in that game is fly. Planes, helicopters... I can find myself wasting 20 minutes just flying. But even that's just a distraction/wasting time, as I'm not running missions or anything. (though those are fun, too)
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 9:47 PM on October 20, 2011

with Skyrim hitting days before

Skyrim is going to depress sales of ALL the holiday games. I'm really looking forward to Saints Row 3, to the new Assassin's Creed game, and to something else that I have on my list that I can't remember right now.

But I'm not buying any of them until I'm "through" with Skyrim. Which will take weeks and weeks if not months and months of time. I suspect that come Decbember someone will write an article wondering why good games aren't selling too well this holiday season -- and the answer will be that Skyrim is the 800-pound gorilla that everyone opened their wallet and cleared their schedule for.

It might be SPRING before I buy another game after November 11.

And hopefully I can pick up SR3 for cheap by then.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 9:48 PM on October 20, 2011 [4 favorites]

And I've said it before, but I prefer my absurdist cut scenes with zombie mask and cockney accent. It adds a certain... je ne sais quoi.

It's bitchin'. That's what it is. Bitchin'.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 9:51 PM on October 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

I had always assumed Saints Row was a horrible franchise because of Buggy Saints Row: The Musical!

But I just may have to give this title a try.
posted by munchingzombie at 9:51 PM on October 20, 2011 [4 favorites]

I have heard that one of the voices this go round is a zombie voice. So you'll just be moaning, and the other characters will speak to you like you're an idiot.
posted by yellowbinder at 9:52 PM on October 20, 2011

I don't have the time or the patience to play Skyrim. I need something fun in small doses. I hope this lives up to the hype.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 9:52 PM on October 20, 2011

The Saints Row games easily eclipse GTA games for sheer fun and addictiveness and I look forward to paying real actual money to buy a legitimate copy of this epic masterpiece of ridiculousness.
posted by tumid dahlia at 10:13 PM on October 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

I don't have the time or the patience to play Skyrim. I need something fun in small doses.

ditto. It could also be the fact, for me at least, that i'm not really a fan of their games. just something about them that ends up wearing on me. Saints Row 2, that was some fun, and three seems to up the crazy. :)
posted by usagizero at 10:15 PM on October 20, 2011

That said, the insurance fraud minigame in SR1 seemed to be a lot better than in SR2. I hope they've rectified that for 3. I would cry from laughing at that for hours on end.
posted by tumid dahlia at 10:19 PM on October 20, 2011

I have heard that one of the voices this go round is a zombie voice.

I think Volition have confirmed this.

Now, here's hoping that the zombie voice does sing-a-longs to the car radio... "Take... ahhh... braaaains..."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:21 PM on October 20, 2011 [2 favorites]

I don't know anything about Saints Row, but I just watched that "blast" trailer and...when I was in film school I had an idea for an action movie which started out with two men shooting at each other, followed by two solid hours of steadily escalating violence and ending with a shot of the Earth exploding.

Oh, you mean Dead or Alive 2 - I think that's the one that ends with the protagonists screaming at eachother and destroying the earth. This did not prevent a third film from being made.
posted by thedaniel at 12:08 AM on October 21, 2011

Any game where your character just chills the fuck out and sings along to cheesy 80s music is okay with me.

*queues up some Final Countdown*
posted by Justinian at 12:43 AM on October 21, 2011

Gameplay-wise, Saints Row 2 is the spiritual successor to GTA: San Andreas. It has variety. After playing GTA IV, I was shocked that ten missions deep into Saints Row 2, I still hadn't been asked by anybody to drive halfway across the map and Shoot A Guy. Instead I was breaking a drug-dealing mother out of prison (the same prison I broke out of myself at the beginning of the game), blowing up meth labs, and boss-fighting a Voodoo Shaman.

Yeah, that reminds me: this game's a little silly. But the surprising thing is, I think Volition have told a better story here than Rockstar did in GTA IV.

For one thing, your character is such an unrepentant evil asshole that there's no disconnect between his/her story actions and the actions you make him/her perform. In the cutscenes of San Andreas, CJ has to stay in town or he'll be framed as a cop killer: then, under the player's control, he murders probably hundreds of cops. Niko Bellic just wants to experience the American Dream, but he gets dragged into the seedy criminal underbelly of Liberty City -- or you could just drive on the sidewalk and murder dozens of pedestrians in the first minute of the game. Saints Row 2 doesn't make the compromise of having your character secretly have a heart of gold, and in fact the story explores this in a pretty subtle, serious way (so subtle that it's easy to miss between all the ninja fights and flaming ATV races).

Oh, and it does all this through some fucking awesome cutscenes. The fact that you can play through them as a 300-pound Asian woman in a hot dog suit is just icing on the cake.

Oh, and the entire game has 2-player online co-op. Yeah, I'm more than a little excited for The Third.
posted by EmGeeJay at 12:44 AM on October 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

Spoiler warning: This appears to be a playthrough of some or all of the first mission.

That shit is bananas. They've managed to out-ridonkulous Point Break.

It's stuff like this and gaming that tells me that traditional cinema isn't long for this world. Why watch Die Hard when you can be in it? While wearing a purple spaceman suit. Or a hotdog. Or as a totally bad ass gender-ambiguous dyke, wearing a hotdog suit and calling in air strikes.

Wait, didn't Stanley Kubrick try to make a movie out of some cheesy book that... BRB, suddenly craving milk.
posted by loquacious at 12:55 AM on October 21, 2011 [4 favorites]

Damn your eyes, it's DD/MM/YY
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 12:56 AM on October 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

Never got into the whole GTA style of gaming or the franchise. THIS, however....a must-have.

Why, videogamingverse, why when I can totally resist WoW like the plague, do you invent Rift, which has claimed hundreds of my personal downtime hours.

And why, when GTA nonplussed me, do you then gleefully offer me Crazy Asian Bazooka Cat version of same?

Sigh.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 3:44 AM on October 21, 2011

I watched this the first thing I saw was some half naked women advertising that the game was sluttier and sexier. Absolutely dusgusting. I would love to play this game, but since I had to pass on Arkham City, I can't in good conscience buy this game.
posted by Ad hominem at 3:54 AM on October 21, 2011

I wish this had the grappling hook from Just Cause 2. Still going to buy it though.
posted by Peztopiary at 4:13 AM on October 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

But I just may have to give this title a try.

Ditto. Dad Status sucks a lot of the fun out of Arkham City. When you can only play in 15 minute spurts with an unknown amount of time in between sessions, checkpoint saving really blows.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 4:30 AM on October 21, 2011

I watched this the first thing I saw was some half naked women advertising that the game was sluttier and sexier.

Those signs for "a sluttier u" and "a sexier u" were ads for the plastic surgeon in the game, which is where you go to change your character's appearance or voice in game. It's not so much saying the game is sluttier and sexier, but making fun of the idea of advertising a service of changing your appearance. You, as a player have the ability to make your character quite modest and chaste if you so choose.
posted by piratebowling at 4:36 AM on October 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

Skyrim is the 800-pound gorilla that everyone opened their wallet and cleared their schedule for

I came to the previous two games very late, and realize in retrospect it was a huge plus - I had given the community time to get it all pretty and modded up properly. I think I'll do similar with Skyrim, come to it when it is fully mature in a year or so.
posted by Meatbomb at 4:39 AM on October 21, 2011

...casually murdering human beings and cops alike

Clever.
posted by backseatpilot at 5:19 AM on October 21, 2011 [3 favorites]

What's stopping you from buying either?

I'm no longer buying games that feature women as sexual objects.
posted by Ad hominem at 6:39 AM on October 21, 2011

Honestly? It sort of does. PC developers can get away with releasing buggy games at launch because they "can always patch them later." Microsoft and to a lesser extent Sony would go to war over that shit. Basically PC games end up being unplayable because the developers face no consequences. Maybe the bugs get fixed in a few months. Meanwhile the console version works. No mods, but if you need those to make a game playable then wasn't the game shit to start with?
posted by Peztopiary at 6:49 AM on October 21, 2011

I preordered Saints Row the Third pretty much the moment I was able to preorder it. I think my one regret is that I cannot somehow give Volition even more of my money.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 7:07 AM on October 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

I just wish that I could have played this apparently awesome version of Saints Row 2 that you're all talking about, rather than the one I purchased which had this rather annoying game destroying bugs mechanic.

I suppose it serves me right for being a PC gamer

Behold: The mod that fixes most broken stuff

Give it another shot, It does take a modern system to run smoothly. There's a good FAQ linked in the first paragraph of that link above.
posted by ijoyner at 7:13 AM on October 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

I came to the previous two games very late, and realize in retrospect it was a huge plus - I had given the community time to get it all pretty and modded up properly. I think I'll do similar with Skyrim, come to it when it is fully mature in a year or so.

My plan is to enter stasis for a year after Skyrim is released and dive into a modded, expanded GOTY edition... or buy it on impulse. Barebones Oblivion would have annoyed me to no end though tbh.

Played Morrowind on PC and adored the mods. Played Oblivion on Xbox360 and liked it, but definitely missed the mods. Planning Skyrim as another Xbox360 experience... I really don't want to have to upgrade my computer for this.

Of course, then I could also play Witcher 2. Hmm...
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 7:19 AM on October 21, 2011

Behold: The mod that fixes most broken stuff

Give it another shot, It does take a modern system to run smoothly. There's a good FAQ linked in the first paragraph of that link above.
posted by ijoyner at 7:13 AM on October 21 [+] [!]

Cheers will check it out!
posted by Hello, I'm David McGahan at 7:34 AM on October 21, 2011

Spoiler warning: This appears to be a playthrough of some or all of the first mission.

That shit is bananas. They've managed to out-ridonkulous Point Break.

I watched the first half, and was all like, 'ok, the human shield mechanic is cool and all, but nothing that out there, really.' And then the second half was all like 'Wut?!' Bananas indeed!
posted by kaibutsu at 7:49 AM on October 21, 2011

I will be very interested in playing this just as soon as I get that goddamn buffalo in Red Dead Redemption multiplayer.
posted by box at 7:50 AM on October 21, 2011

I have a friend that works in a game store, and he had no interest in Saint Row 2. I explained that, while fucking around, I managed to steal a police APC. I then took it to a chop shop and had giant 30" spinning rims put on it and added some tripped out paint job.

I then went on the funkiest swath of destruction with it that you can imagine. It was hilarious, awesome, and not anything I expected the game to allow me to do. But it did and it was just one of the many examples of how the designers realized that sometimes people just want to experiment with weird stuff, so they obliged.

I'm happy to say that not only did my story convince my buddy to get the game, he then went on to use it to sell another half dozen copies.

This pleases me because I like the idea that there are a bunch of oversized absurd APCs with spinners causing death and destruction in my name out there in the virtual world.
posted by quin at 8:16 AM on October 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

I played the first half hour of Saint's Row 2 and found it painfully boring - just like GTA 4. I personally think GTA - Vice City just set the bar too high, too early.
posted by Yowser at 8:21 AM on October 21, 2011

I played the first half hour of Saint's Row 2 and found it painfully boring - just like GTA 4.

Did you...did you see that you can rip parking meters out of the ground and beat the holy bejesus out of pimps with them?

Or grab random passers-by and throw them bodily into traffic and get points for it?

Or take off all your clothes and run around a shopping mall in a trenchcoat, flashing shoppers and getting rewarded for it?

Or dial the delivery number for the local fast food chain, and when the delivery guy shows up, hijack his car--which looks like a giant burger, soda, and side order of fries?

Or have the gang sign your followers flash to you be a jaunty Irish jig?

How you can compare that to "HEY CUZEEN LET'S GO BOOOWLEENG" every five minutes I'll never know.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 8:32 AM on October 21, 2011 [9 favorites]

I tried to get into Saint's Row 2 but it didn't really click. I think I need to go back and try again. Need to get back to GTA IV too. I generally love sandbox games (Just Cause 2, Crackdown, etc).

Of course, then I could also play Witcher 2. Hmm...

Witcher 2 is coming to 360 sometime earlyish next year.
posted by kmz at 8:35 AM on October 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

The police APC was the tipping point for me, too. I mean, I'd already really been loving SR2 but didn't have a complete appreciation for the sheer delightful lunacy of it until I managed to steal the APC (not an easy feat, it turns out), get it to my garage, and get it to a chop shop.

I had to forego the rims because I wanted the wheel spikes. I wanted this thing to be a siege engine. But I also didn't want to neglect aesthetics.

I will not specify the gender of my character in the game, but my character looked as though it might have emerged from the pages of a street-fashion magazine if the guest editor for an issue had been John Willie.

This character was now driving a massive, furious-looking police APC with a mounted machine gun, capable of holding six people. The APC was also on whitewalls, with this beautiful frosted pink paint job with white highlights. It looked like someone messed up at the toy factory and applied the Barbie paint job to a GI Joe vehicle. And then I drove through the city with it, just absolutely wrecking shop.

Eventually the police choppers and whatnot punched enough holes in it that it exploded. I made it back to my hideout and looked at my garage and found that it was there again, intact and ready to embark on another splatter-filled murder spree.

I don't think I've ever loved a game quite as much. Volition puts you on no rails; they give you a huge array of options and then they maybe give you a goal and your route from zero to goal can be as action-movie badass or as completely fucking insane as you like. I've seen people who uploaded player photos of their characters, sunglassed and adorned with tribal tattoos and squatting next to their tuned-up sports cars, looking like an overpaid bouncer, and it warms my heart to know that these guys were somewhere out there doing the same missions as my character, with its abundance of eyeshadow and leather elbow gloves. The game tells you to bust up a campus protest but does not specify how you should do it; I did it by retrieving one of the demolition derby cars I won for finishing the derby (which, as it turns out, you can take to the chop shop for mods and basically create murder on four wheels) - this happened to be a hearse with the number 13 on the hood and sides, with a spiked grille guard.

Now, here's the thing.

Having a PS3, I never played the first Saints Row, and I never knew it as anything but a poor man's GTA ripoff. And I loved the GTA series, and I'd been so, so excited for GTA 4. And I'd had a little while to play it, and I loved the physics of it but everything else was kind of not really grabbing me. And then the trailer for SR2 came out.

The voiceover said something on the order of: "Which would you rather do: go play darts with your cousin, or spray pedestrians with raw sewage?"

And I thought, you know, I may be firmly on the GTA side of this bizarre brand war, but...fuck it, you've got me. I would rather spray pedestrians with raw sewage. That sounds amazing.

Months later, with the game in front of me and GTA 4 gathering dust on my shelf, I finally got around to doing the sewage-truck missions (there had just been so many other things to do). The trailer, months earlier, had not prepared me for the individually-rendered logs of shit with which I was pelting houses, cars, and passerby. People were knocked over by the spray and then lay wailing and flopping around in pools of excreta. I laughed. My God, I laughed.

I never looked back. It is such a wonderfully happy accident when a development team comes slightly unhinged and is rewarded for doing so and realizes that the only way to go is completely unhinged. And that is why I am so excited for Saints Row the Third.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 8:40 AM on October 21, 2011 [19 favorites]

I didn't know this game existed until today and am very happy for this thread. Saint's Row 2 is incoming, and I am certain I'll enjoy it immensely.
posted by Meatbomb at 8:48 AM on October 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

and basically create murder on four wheels

There is a bit of poetry in that.
posted by quin at 8:49 AM on October 21, 2011

I have learned so, so much from this thread. I have jacked police cars before, but never thought to mod them. It's a beautiful game *sniff* *wipes tears away*
posted by saturnine at 8:51 AM on October 21, 2011

Witcher 2 is coming to 360 sometime earlyish next year.

WHA! WOOHOO! OH YEAH!
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 9:45 AM on October 21, 2011

I really have to give Saints Row 3 a huge thumbs up. I think it's the only game that allows more flexibility in character creation and gender than my personal fixation, the Sims franchise.

I mean, The Sims has had flexible sexual preference and same-sex marriage since the first game was released over a decade ago. But I am so envious of Saints Row 3's gender slider and non-gender-locked wardrobe!
posted by ErikaB at 10:41 AM on October 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

I'm so tired of sandbox games. Playing normal games there's this building sense of pressure where events and plots matter. With a sandbox you can quit out in the middle of something important and go apprentice to soba noddle chef for 5 hours then come back in to everything. It breaks my suspension of disbelief.

You realize that if you decide to quit in the middle of something important and go be a soba noodle chef for 5 hours, you have no one to blame but yourself, right? The entire point of sandbox structure is that you AREN'T railroaded into certain areas or actions. If you don't like dicking around in the middle of missions, the simplest solution is to not dick around in the middle of missions. And by 'simplest', I mean 'least fun'.
posted by FatherDagon at 11:37 AM on October 21, 2011

Well, I think the suspension of disbelief comes into play when your soba noodle detour, from an ostensibly time-sensitive matter, results in no negative consequences. But Saints Row 2 was pretty good about putting actual timers on time-critical missions. Everything else, yeah, you get to go drive an ambulance or go barnstorming for a few hours if you want. Or never do the missions. If, in Saints Row 2, you never did more than one or two missions, then you'd never have influence over and cash from more than 1 or 2 neighbourhoods. That seems like a believable consequence to me.

But it sure spoils me for less customizable and more railroad-y games. It's pretty frustrating to roll around L.A. Noire and not be able to play with it.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 12:05 PM on October 21, 2011

You know, it wasn't until the end of the second game that I realized Johnny Gat was supposed to be Asian. I don't know what that means, if anything.
posted by danny the boy at 12:44 PM on October 21, 2011

I wish ~~this~~ everything had the grappling hook from Just Cause 2

Does anyone else want to get Volition, Rockstar and Avalanche together with a hundred million quid and ask them to make the GREATEST GAME EVER MADE?
posted by fullerine at 12:53 PM on October 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

Does anyone else want to get Volition, Rockstar and Avalanche together with a hundred million quid and ask them to make the GREATEST GAME EVER MADE?

Only if Tim Schafer is there too. And he brings The Muppets.
posted by EmGeeJay at 1:47 PM on October 21, 2011

Johnny Gat is Asian? I know he's played by the dude from LOST, and so I know his ACTOR is Asian, but I think Eliza Dushku's character is supposed to be Latina so I'm not sure if that means anything. (It is also possible I made that up about Dushku's character. It's been a while. I know she's slutty and has dreadlocks though.)

Also Sasha Grey and Hulk Hogan are gonna be in SR3. So uh. That's... a thing.
posted by NoraReed at 3:15 PM on October 21, 2011

In the first game, there's a vice kings mission where he says about wearing their colors, "I'm yellow enough as it is."

That must have been what I was remembering.
posted by danny the boy at 3:31 PM on October 21, 2011

Johnny Gat? The dude's name is Johnny Gat?

This post makes me just slightly bummed that I bought Red Dead Redemption instead of Saints Row 2 (there's a question for AskMe: what console games have popular and well-populated multiplayer modes, even years after their release?). I've given Rockstar crazy money--hell, I only bought a PS2 for GTA3, I only bought a 360 for GTA4, I bought Red Dead Redemption, I even bought pieces of shit like Manhunt and State of Emergency. This new Saints Row game? When it becomes cheap, I'ma buy it.
posted by box at 7:03 PM on October 21, 2011

I've never played any of the games. I'm worried if I start with 3 I'll miss some of the nuances of the plot.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 7:21 PM on October 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

You're very angry at the world, you've got a shotgun, you're wearing a hot dog suit and go-go boots, and you've just leaped out of a helicopter.

BEGIN!
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:39 PM on October 21, 2011 [7 favorites]

This is the first post since Demon Souls to make me wish I still played games. (Or had a PS3 / XBOX 360) Well there was also Darklands. I guess a lot of games make me wish I still played games.
posted by jcruelty at 11:33 PM on October 21, 2011

A gangster cat with a Tommy gun is a character in The Master and the Margharita. Who says games aren't art?
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 8:48 AM on October 22, 2011

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