Teachers overpaid, says conservative think tank
November 1, 2011 6:51 PM Subscribe
The Heritage Center for Data Analysis has published a study concluding that public school teachers are overpaid (PDF).
This post was deleted for the following reason: This is trolling junk from a think tank purposely done to promote their agenda and get in the news. everyone hates it and it isn't even loading for me, so it's deleted -- mathowie
Perhaps surprisingly, they think pastors are underpaid.
posted by rhizome at 6:54 PM on November 1, 2011
posted by rhizome at 6:54 PM on November 1, 2011
All the good words have been taken. For instance, these people own the word "Assholes".
posted by kuatto at 6:54 PM on November 1, 2011
posted by kuatto at 6:54 PM on November 1, 2011
In other news, The Lekvar Center for Data Analysis has published a study concluding that I need a raise, a beer and a footrub.
posted by lekvar at 6:55 PM on November 1, 2011 [10 favorites]
posted by lekvar at 6:55 PM on November 1, 2011 [10 favorites]
You know, it'd be great if someone out there did some meta-analysis and kept a scorecard on the different think tanks' "research" and exactly how often it just, you know, coincidentally happens to confirm their ideological preconceptions and support their existing political platforms.
posted by RogerB at 6:56 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by RogerB at 6:56 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
Conclusion: State and local governments seeking to balance their budgets in difficult times should take a close look at teacher compensation, which is considerably higher than necessary to retain the existing teacher workforce.
Once you get past the sociopathy, you have to admit he's got a point.
posted by Trurl at 6:56 PM on November 1, 2011
Once you get past the sociopathy, you have to admit he's got a point.
posted by Trurl at 6:56 PM on November 1, 2011
Smells like bullshit, or it does through the abstract at least. Context for this would be nifty.
posted by Shutter at 6:56 PM on November 1, 2011
posted by Shutter at 6:56 PM on November 1, 2011
Executive Summary: They come *this* close to saying that high school teachers are dumb. Oh, and defined benefit obligation pensions, as usual, are an evil conspiracy and we should all choose between eating cat food and working till the grave hurf durf.
posted by Yowser at 6:59 PM on November 1, 2011
posted by Yowser at 6:59 PM on November 1, 2011
Why do we even give shit like this more hits?
posted by HuronBob at 6:59 PM on November 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by HuronBob at 6:59 PM on November 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
The R. Mutt Center For Bullshit Analysis will issue a statement shortly...
posted by R. Mutt at 6:59 PM on November 1, 2011
posted by R. Mutt at 6:59 PM on November 1, 2011
Putting the "Tank" in "Think-Tank" since the birth of Jesus.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:59 PM on November 1, 2011
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:59 PM on November 1, 2011
This just in: assholes who quote-unquote work for a think-tank (way to produce something of value there, Galtian overlord. Oh wait ...) churn out bullshit to justify their bullshit stipend.
Fuck this.
posted by joe lisboa at 6:59 PM on November 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
Fuck this.
posted by joe lisboa at 6:59 PM on November 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
Every time I see another one of these outrageously ill-informed "studies", I wish that the people involved had to go out and actually work as a public-school teacher for a week before spouting off their "facts". Ha ha, who's kidding who....they'd be lucky to last a day.
posted by Go Banana at 7:00 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Go Banana at 7:00 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
defined benefit obligation pensions, as usual, are an evil conspiracy and we should all choose between eating cat food and working till the grave hurf durf.
Aka "we've screwed the private sector out of good benefits, so let's stoke resentment of the folks in the public sector who haven't been screwed out of pensions yet".
posted by immlass at 7:00 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
Aka "we've screwed the private sector out of good benefits, so let's stoke resentment of the folks in the public sector who haven't been screwed out of pensions yet".
posted by immlass at 7:00 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
Workers who switch from non-teaching jobs to teaching jobs receive a wage increase of roughly 9 percent. Teachers who change to non-teaching jobs, on the other hand, see their wages decrease by roughly 3 percent. This is the opposite of what one would expect if teachers were underpaid.
Isn't this what you'd expect if teaching were a stressful, life-consuming job that you had to pay people a wage premium to do?
posted by escabeche at 7:00 PM on November 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
Isn't this what you'd expect if teaching were a stressful, life-consuming job that you had to pay people a wage premium to do?
posted by escabeche at 7:00 PM on November 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
Conclusion: State and local governments seeking to balance their budgets in difficult times should take a close look at teacher compensation, which is considerably higher than necessary to retain the existing teacher workforce.
This is capitalism, of course. If you can get the same quality and pay less, why not pay less? Of course, the quality they are aiming for is "almost none," so there you go.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:01 PM on November 1, 2011 [2 favorites]
This is capitalism, of course. If you can get the same quality and pay less, why not pay less? Of course, the quality they are aiming for is "almost none," so there you go.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:01 PM on November 1, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'll just leave this wikipedia link here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heritage_Foundation
posted by mobunited at 7:02 PM on November 1, 2011 [2 favorites]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heritage_Foundation
posted by mobunited at 7:02 PM on November 1, 2011 [2 favorites]
Those who can, do. Those who cannot, accept positions at the Heritage Foundation.
posted by joe lisboa at 7:03 PM on November 1, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by joe lisboa at 7:03 PM on November 1, 2011 [2 favorites]
Investment bankers are also overpaid. Since the public is also paying their salaries I say we start cutting there.
posted by humanfont at 7:03 PM on November 1, 2011 [10 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 7:03 PM on November 1, 2011 [10 favorites]
Not only do they think teachers are overpaid, they think teachers are paid 52% more than fair market value.
What's the fair market value, assholes? "Fair" and "market value" don't even exist on the same planet anymore, thanks to the machinations of douchebags like you guys for the last 40 years.
Teachers are overpaid? Really? I look forward to your in-depth analysis of corporate management payscales.
Die in a fire.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:04 PM on November 1, 2011 [2 favorites]
What's the fair market value, assholes? "Fair" and "market value" don't even exist on the same planet anymore, thanks to the machinations of douchebags like you guys for the last 40 years.
Teachers are overpaid? Really? I look forward to your in-depth analysis of corporate management payscales.
Die in a fire.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:04 PM on November 1, 2011 [2 favorites]
I once dug into a Heritage Foundation quantitative policy paper (about abstinence education) and it was a depressing experience.
posted by escabeche at 7:04 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by escabeche at 7:04 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
Here in my own district, this attack on teacher wages is already well underway. Plans here involve leaving current teachers alone, and forcing new hires to accept tens of thousands of dollars in pay cuts and zero in the way of health benefits. Our current, uh, association (because we can't unionize) has been silent in all of this.
This current generation will not be satisfied until all of the changes from the 60s are gone. By which, of course, I mean the *1860s*. Because that's how far back you need to look for the advent of public, tax-payer supported schools across the United States.
posted by absalom at 7:05 PM on November 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
This current generation will not be satisfied until all of the changes from the 60s are gone. By which, of course, I mean the *1860s*. Because that's how far back you need to look for the advent of public, tax-payer supported schools across the United States.
posted by absalom at 7:05 PM on November 1, 2011 [3 favorites]
Ideally, if a teacher’s skills are worth $X in the private marketplace, that teacher should be paid $X by the government.
The assumption is that the marketplace for teaching skills—or indeed any "human resource" whatsoever—functions adequately. At–will employment coupled with employer–mediated healthcare suggests that parts of the employment market within the US is not optimal. The ability of employees to enter and exit the market is not equal to that of employers, thus driving down the cost of labor. Teaching is not "overpaid", rather vast numbers of employees in the private sector are likely underpaid.
posted by Jehan at 7:06 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
The assumption is that the marketplace for teaching skills—or indeed any "human resource" whatsoever—functions adequately. At–will employment coupled with employer–mediated healthcare suggests that parts of the employment market within the US is not optimal. The ability of employees to enter and exit the market is not equal to that of employers, thus driving down the cost of labor. Teaching is not "overpaid", rather vast numbers of employees in the private sector are likely underpaid.
posted by Jehan at 7:06 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
"...especially the ones who teach that heathen evolution stuff...."
posted by zarq at 7:06 PM on November 1, 2011
posted by zarq at 7:06 PM on November 1, 2011
Keeping up with lead author of this study, Jason Richwine, Ph.D.:
Or, as he actually said: “The argument that immigrants themselves are no different from the ones that came 100 years ago I think is quite wrong, and I think that the major difference here is ethnicity — or race, if you will.” Not only do people of the same race tend to stick together, Richwine said, but “races differ in all sorts of ways, and probably the most important way is in IQ.”
My advice to Jason Richwine: Using the phrase "if you will" and putting "Ph.D." after your name are both tacky.
posted by escabeche at 7:07 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
Or, as he actually said: “The argument that immigrants themselves are no different from the ones that came 100 years ago I think is quite wrong, and I think that the major difference here is ethnicity — or race, if you will.” Not only do people of the same race tend to stick together, Richwine said, but “races differ in all sorts of ways, and probably the most important way is in IQ.”
My advice to Jason Richwine: Using the phrase "if you will" and putting "Ph.D." after your name are both tacky.
posted by escabeche at 7:07 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
If by "overpaid" they mean that teachers receive something above a comfortable living wage with full benefits and a retirement package which allows them to move out of their primary profession and into something else in their later years after they've given society a good measure of service in the prime years of their life...
Then I can only hope everyone who is working to help the country's future generations have a worthwhile life full of curiosity and success would be equally overpaid.
posted by hippybear at 7:07 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
Then I can only hope everyone who is working to help the country's future generations have a worthwhile life full of curiosity and success would be equally overpaid.
posted by hippybear at 7:07 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
Does anyone working at the Heritage Foundation actually have kids in a public school somewhere? See, that would be some data to analyze, right there.
posted by newdaddy at 7:09 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by newdaddy at 7:09 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
I took empty bottles back today (thank you Michigan deposit law!) to afford gas money to get to my (collegiate!) teaching gig.
Fuck him, fuck this, and fuck you if you think our teachers are the problem.
posted by joe lisboa at 7:09 PM on November 1, 2011 [2 favorites]
Fuck him, fuck this, and fuck you if you think our teachers are the problem.
posted by joe lisboa at 7:09 PM on November 1, 2011 [2 favorites]
Does anyone working at the Heritage Foundation actually have kids in a public school somewhere?
What are they, farmers?
posted by Threeway Handshake at 7:09 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
What are they, farmers?
posted by Threeway Handshake at 7:09 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
I know it's been said before, but if teachers and other government workers are paid more than private sector workers, then the real problem is that private sector workers are underpaid. Support unionizing.
I say that as a person who has worked in HR and developed a dislike of unions. There's a reason we disliked unions - they actually work!
posted by Yowser at 7:11 PM on November 1, 2011
I say that as a person who has worked in HR and developed a dislike of unions. There's a reason we disliked unions - they actually work!
posted by Yowser at 7:11 PM on November 1, 2011
The question of whether teachers are overpaid or not depend entirely entirely on what level of quality is considered acceptable.
For maintaining this current batch of teachers maybe they're right, I don't know. If you believe that money attracts talent though (as I assume these guys would), it seems like a pretty subjective question.
I mean, you could always say "teachers are overpaid because I can hire a babysitter for eight bucks an hour, duh".
posted by Winnemac at 7:11 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
For maintaining this current batch of teachers maybe they're right, I don't know. If you believe that money attracts talent though (as I assume these guys would), it seems like a pretty subjective question.
I mean, you could always say "teachers are overpaid because I can hire a babysitter for eight bucks an hour, duh".
posted by Winnemac at 7:11 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
Just to play devil's advocate here, why are private school teachers paid much less than public school teachers?
Sure, they're not required to have a teaching certificate, but presumably private schools have done the analysis and decided it's not worth it to require one. And I haven't seen any arguments that private school education is worse than public school.
posted by miyabo at 7:13 PM on November 1, 2011
Sure, they're not required to have a teaching certificate, but presumably private schools have done the analysis and decided it's not worth it to require one. And I haven't seen any arguments that private school education is worse than public school.
posted by miyabo at 7:13 PM on November 1, 2011
Yes, Teachers are overpaid. And CEOs are fairly paid, their contracts and pay is completely dictated by market forces.
Long live the invisible hand!
posted by DigDoug at 7:13 PM on November 1, 2011
Long live the invisible hand!
posted by DigDoug at 7:13 PM on November 1, 2011
So parenting is the hardest thing anyone could ever do...but teaching, that shit is easy.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:13 PM on November 1, 2011
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:13 PM on November 1, 2011
Sorry, folks. My comments above were insufficiently angry and/or offensive in light of the situation. It just has been a long day of teaching so I do not have it in me to be sufficiently angry and/or offensive. Just got home (10:00 PM), is all.
Maybe tomorrow.
posted by joe lisboa at 7:14 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
Maybe tomorrow.
posted by joe lisboa at 7:14 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yeah... I'm leaning towards thinking this should be deleted. It's a hateful piece written by a well-known right-wing shill group. Why does this need attention?
posted by JHarris at 7:14 PM on November 1, 2011
posted by JHarris at 7:14 PM on November 1, 2011
Does anyone working at the Heritage Foundation actually have kids in a public school somewhere?
It seems quite possible to me that the answer is No.
posted by Trurl at 7:14 PM on November 1, 2011
It seems quite possible to me that the answer is No.
posted by Trurl at 7:14 PM on November 1, 2011
Winnemac:
You are spot on.
If these axe-grinding, sociopathic, corporate bootlickers actually believed their own propaganda, they would be writing papers detailing how we should be RAISING teacher's salaries to attract the best talent.
I mean it works for CEOS, don't it?
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:14 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
You are spot on.
If these axe-grinding, sociopathic, corporate bootlickers actually believed their own propaganda, they would be writing papers detailing how we should be RAISING teacher's salaries to attract the best talent.
I mean it works for CEOS, don't it?
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:14 PM on November 1, 2011 [1 favorite]
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God, I remember when the word "heritage" didn't immediately mean this person is an asshole.
posted by JHarris at 6:53 PM on November 1, 2011 [17 favorites]