Anonymous vs Los Zetas Cartel

November 2, 2011 12:43 PM

On October 6th, a video claiming to be by Anonymous Veracruz was posted on YouTube, requesting the release of one of their members. A member of Anonymous was kidnapped during a public demonstration, by Los Zetas Cartel (or simply Zetas) of Mexico. The video included threats of exposing those who collaborate with Zeta, from corrupt police to taxi drivers and journalists. This, in light of internet snitches hung from an overpass (warning: graphic image) and a beheaded blogger from Laredo. On Sunday, one arm of Anonymous called off their threat to Zeta via a series of Twitter posts, citing concern for those not involved. Several Twitter accounts went silent, showing signs that Operation Cartel, or #OpCartel, was over. But there are still members involved, posting on their Facebook page that those not directly involved with the efforts should not try to participate, even going as far as to recommend people do not buy or wear Guy Fawkes masks, or use such images in their online.
posted by filthy light thief (75 comments total)

Just to clarify, this is an ad-blurb for the next Neal Stephenson book, right?
posted by Stagger Lee at 12:51 PM on November 2, 2011 [9 favorites]

On October 6th, a video claiming to be by Anonymous Veracruz was posted on YouTube, requesting the release of one of their members.

Requesting? The video threatens release of names of Zetas collaborators in the government if they do not comply. This is not requesting. It is blackmailing criminals. Its also illegal. If they have information regarding Los Zetas, they need to turn it over to the US FBI and the Mexican Army, who have the best rate of success.

Otherwise, the families of these people will be targeted by the other cartels.
posted by Ironmouth at 12:51 PM on November 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

I don't think Neal Stephenson kills so many people in his books (but I could be wrong).
posted by filthy light thief at 12:55 PM on November 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

shit just got real
posted by LogicalDash at 12:56 PM on November 2, 2011 [9 favorites]

American drug policy has made Mexico a failed state. Thank god we don't have to worry about seeing any of this unpleasantness on American news stations. That would really put a damper on the whole Kardashian Wedding outrage.
posted by absalom at 12:57 PM on November 2, 2011 [39 favorites]

For your own personal safety, MetaFilter recommends that you do not attempt to get your shit real.
posted by LogicalDash at 12:57 PM on November 2, 2011 [11 favorites]

American drug policy has made Mexico a failed state.

American drug policy hasn't helped, but there's much more to it than that. Much more.
posted by mr_roboto at 1:05 PM on November 2, 2011 [15 favorites]

I think this is good for younger members of Anonymous. It's a gentle reminder that there's a real world sometimes just on the other side of the monitor. And in this world, shit often gets so real, people will not hesitate to step this side of the monitor to fuck your shit up.

Hack wisely, youngins'.
posted by Bathtub Bobsled at 1:06 PM on November 2, 2011 [3 favorites]

statist forces of law < disruptive hackers < psychotic gangs that leave severed heads in their wake < Great Old Ones, Elder Gods
posted by codswallop at 1:07 PM on November 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

I can't decide if this is awesome or stupid. But I'm leaning towards awesome. Why shouldn't anti-corruption forces in Mexico make use of the resources and international support of the Anonymous movement? Isn't this the kind of movement that Anonymous is supposed to stand for?
posted by anotherpanacea at 1:14 PM on November 2, 2011

Drug cartels have their own hackers that have probably been at it for years. In Columbia cartels used their own mainframe computers to cross check millions of phone calls out of the country to find informers. These dudes are no joke.
posted by Ad hominem at 1:18 PM on November 2, 2011 [6 favorites]

If these organizations can buy moles within governments and militaries, they will probably want to buy moles in private sector companies, too. This is why privacy matters in all arenas. Not doing anything wrong/have nothing to hide? If the bad guys can get a hold of the data (and they can) it doesn't matter.
posted by Skwirl at 1:18 PM on November 2, 2011 [3 favorites]

I don't think Neal Stephenson kills so many people in his books (but I could be wrong).

Yeah, lately I'm having a hard time distinguishing real life from dystopian scifi though.
posted by Stagger Lee at 1:18 PM on November 2, 2011 [10 favorites]

I highly doubt Anonymous can do significant damage to a mexican drug cartel, whereas the cartel can likely kill, maim, and dismember members of Anonymous or anyone they can tangentally connect to the group. It seems like all there other targets were at least partially hampered by the law and likely consciences.

I'm sure everyone here wants someone to stand up to violent drug cartels but I hope they're prepared for the consequences, and not just for themselves. Personally I think they should act in a truly anonymous fashion if they really have useful information to offer.
posted by PJLandis at 1:22 PM on November 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

Unlike the government, the drug cartels don't have to look legitimate - they just have to look really, really scary. Which means that Anonymous's methods will by definition not work against them, since the drug cartels have no compunction about killing people until their opponents get scared enough to stop.

It's worth noting that the more our governments separate power from legitimacy (ie, the more dishonest elections, corrupt politicians, making-it-hard-for-poor-folks-to-vote, corrupt cops, etc) the closer we are to this shit. There have been plenty of governments in living memory in South/Latin America where power was 100% separated from legitimacy and the government openly operated torture gangs.
posted by Frowner at 1:27 PM on November 2, 2011 [11 favorites]

It's worth noting that the more our governments separate power from legitimacy (ie, the more dishonest elections, corrupt politicians, making-it-hard-for-poor-folks-to-vote, corrupt cops, etc) the closer we are to this shit.

Thanks for putting that into words I was still searching for. In several countries I've had the revelation "gods, this is what it takes to be a reporter/protestor/dissident here". The upside is that they often take rights and freedoms we take for granted far more seriously, because there are grave consequences associated with their actions. The downside is that there are grave consequences associated with their actions.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 1:36 PM on November 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

The families of Anonymous sleep well. What kind of idiots would threaten drug cartels like that.
posted by stbalbach at 1:37 PM on November 2, 2011

Just to clarify, this is an ad-blurb for the next Neal Stephenson book, right?

I was thinking more along the lines of Breaking Bad season 5.
posted by jbickers at 1:38 PM on November 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

If they have information regarding Los Zetas, they need to turn it over to the US FBI and the Mexican Army, who have the best rate of success.

If you don't think they don't have all the info Anonymous has (and more), you don't understand how the World works today.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:39 PM on November 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

Anonymous members behind 7 boxxies are still safe though, right?
posted by Blue Meanie at 1:39 PM on November 2, 2011

As far as american drug policy goes, it's more then just "drugs are illegal, so there are gangs", but rather that our policies of going after the cartells hard means that no one group can control a territory. So the result is that there is is a ton of strife between gangs and less violent types get weeded out

If mexico could control it's own drug policy, they could legalize drugs and prevent criminals from getting a stronghold in that industry. But the US pressures them not too.

Of course it was dumb for anon to try to take on the carels. Chances are they don't even have the data to start with.
posted by delmoi at 1:40 PM on November 2, 2011

Ultimately, the sword is mightier than the pen.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 1:43 PM on November 2, 2011

Not everyone who works for the Zetas is a "bad guy." Many people are threatened to either work with the Zetas or to get themselves or their families killed by the Zetas. A list of Zeta cooperators would probably contain the names of many otherwise innocent people who will then be hurt or killed in response to having their cover blown.
posted by Sticherbeast at 1:44 PM on November 2, 2011

Two large, shadowy, extralegal, moneyed, connected, determined pissed-off organizations going after each other? Through the medium we all have a front row seat on? This is better than any Neal Stephenson novel.
posted by telstar at 1:53 PM on November 2, 2011

If anonymous wants to fight the drug cartels, it should do what it can to remove from office the politicians who continue to reinforce the war on drugs. The only to weaken drug cartels is to make running them less profitable. And the only way to make them less profitable is to reduce their sales margin and volume. And the only way to do that is to make local production practical. And the only way to do that is to reduce sentences, reduce enforcement, decriminalise or legalise.

You can't cure XXX by fighting XXX. You cure XXX by changing the environment so that XXX is no longer a dominant survival strategy. Works for piracy, bullying, dictatorships, MRSA and drug cartels, among many many other things.
posted by seanmpuckett at 1:57 PM on November 2, 2011 [18 favorites]

Not everyone who works for the Zetas is a "bad guy." Many people are threatened to either work with the Zetas or to get themselves or their families killed by the Zetas. A list of Zeta cooperators would probably contain the names of many otherwise innocent people who will then be hurt or killed in response to having their cover blown.
Sticherbeast

That was the really frustrating thing about this bullshit. Anonymous just didn't consider at all how this would play out in the real world, and the very real deaths and pain their games would cause.

Two large, shadowy, extralegal, moneyed, connected, determined pissed-off organizations going after each other?
telstar

No, this is precisely the problem that led to this stunt. These groups are nowhere near equivalent in the real world. Anonymous just likes to think of itself as this secret, elite group of super-hackers that can do anything when at best they can irritate some organization by DDOSing their website for a few hours. They were fools to think they could try something like this without consequences to themselves and others.

Bathtub Bobsled is right. This is a much-needed wake-up call for Anonymous that if they want to operate on the world stage, it's not a game.
posted by Sangermaine at 2:00 PM on November 2, 2011 [4 favorites]

What is Anonymous smoking? How is exposing these guys going to accomplish anything? The Zetas and other Mexican cartels survive because of fear, not secrecy.
posted by Edgewise at 2:01 PM on November 2, 2011

I'm sure the ruthless cartel will get right on their MacBooks and write unkind things on their blog in retaliation.
posted by dr_dank at 2:10 PM on November 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

This is just an example of why i pretty much can't take Anonymous seriously. They believe they can actually accomplish things that matter, but all they really do is get press. Have they ever actually done anything besides bring down some sites and stand around in masks? (if you think the child porn ring thing will do anything, might want to think how easy it will be to imply that the hackers put it there in the first place, or framed them, wouldn't be the first time) Scientology, still doing fine. US government still doing shady things, even when a non-member released more than anonymous ever did.

I believe they could be doing way more good than they are, but seem to believe the hype too much and feel untouchable, that is until they run into the real power. Which will kill and torture to stay there. They don't fear exposure, honestly doubt they really fear much at this point.
posted by usagizero at 2:18 PM on November 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

They were fools to think they could try something like this without consequences to themselves and others.

Are we talking about Anonymous or the US government? It seems like this could equally well apply to both.
posted by anotherpanacea at 2:19 PM on November 2, 2011

"They" being the gangs and such.
posted by usagizero at 2:19 PM on November 2, 2011

Hmmm.

Some thoughts:

#1 Anonymous isn't a solid group with a "user list" or "subscriber base". The likely scenario is that local Mexican Anonymous members started this, backed out when they realised the world of shit they were in, but then other Anonymous members thought it would be a cool challenge (looking at you, Sabu) and so it won't end

#2 The first person they hacked / dox'd was a government politician. Whilst his involvement with organised crime has been an open secret, people here bleating on about "tell the government" aren't really living in the real world.

#3 To add to that, cries of "CALL ZE F.B.I" are both stupid and ignorant. Firstly, the FBI is an internal agency - you'll probably want the DEA or CIA. Secondly, the USA has been supplying weapons to Mexican drug gangs. Reuters, to make sure this isn't tinfoil hat time. That's not even mentioning stories out of Mexico where DEA agents are whisked to safety and have three tonnes of ganja next door

#4 Publishing the list would have serious consequences. It would provide a hit list for other gangs to weaken the hold over the populace. The USA is not against this because they are looking to arrest Los Zetas, but because the resulting instability and warfare would threaten the border. As the CIA like to say, "Better the devil you know, and happen to have favours with, and might have helped get in power". You'll see them on TV one day, and be urged to cheer their demise, without being told - you funded them, and put them into power.


Sheesh. Land of the blind in here tonight.
posted by Cheradine Zakalwe at 2:20 PM on November 2, 2011 [10 favorites]

Are we talking about Anonymous or the US government? It seems like this could equally well apply to both.


What consequences has the US faced? None at all. I still meet people every day that blame the 'media' for the bad press. They don't believe we tortured anyone, that we went to iraq to give them freedom, etc. The people have it worse off, but those in power seem to have even more power and less consequences.
posted by usagizero at 2:22 PM on November 2, 2011

You remember that part in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back where Jay and Silent Bob print out a list of the nerds who dissed them on the internet, fly to each one of their houses, and beat them up? It'll be like this, times 10,000, with grisly murder.
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 2:24 PM on November 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

Oh, that three tonnes link?

Also involves a paid DEA informer being involved with the torture and dismemberment of over 20 people.


Might want to start supporting the good guys - and they sure as hell aren't the government or the drug barons.


How drug money was laundered in 2008 to prevent the crash and provide liquidity to major US banks - looking at you, Mr Warren "oops, that's cocaine cash" Buffet (Wachovia received the largest amount, approx $380 billion).


L.A. Times has a semi-decent series on the Mexican Drug war. Nothing like Gary Webb, but there we go - shooting yourself twice in the head as a suicide after having your career destroyed by the CIA & collusive media interests won't get you publishing more stories.
posted by Cheradine Zakalwe at 2:32 PM on November 2, 2011 [4 favorites]

What consequences has the US faced?

Well, these Drug Cartels in Mexico are not selling drugs to Mexicans.
posted by chemoboy at 2:53 PM on November 2, 2011

Back on.
posted by Ironmouth at 3:02 PM on November 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

Have they ever actually done anything besides bring down some sites and stand around in masks?

Well, they're an excellent foil for the whole "OMG CYBERWAR!" hysteria promulgated by certain people looking to enlarge their federal department's budget.
posted by indubitable at 3:34 PM on November 2, 2011

#OpDarkNet



We're wishing they'd actually done some decent intel & penetrated enough to grab CC details, but their heart is in the right place. Yes, the Anons who did it came early, and got all excited - but at least they're taking down stuff that the FBI etc only EVER catch on user's computers (aka - another civil servant or lawyer or boring person is caught with pics downloaded) --- at least they're trying to set the world right.

Which given the current standards of selfishness, fuctardery & financial blight is still doing 95% better than your average paedobear. So, all those 100's millions spent on Themis, Chamber of Commerce snooping and so on - could have (easily) taken down 100 GBs of CP.



But... CP was making money, so I guess it isn't a priority.
posted by Cheradine Zakalwe at 3:51 PM on November 2, 2011

Back on.
posted by Ironmouth at 3:02 PM on November 2 [+] [!]

Here's how it would happen if this was the plot to a 1994 film:

The cartel makes it seem that they will turn over the person kidnapped, but... alas... the kidnap victim has already been executed. After they make the agreement that they will release the individual, they then take advantage of the supposed "cease fire" by kidnapping two more members of Anonymous, both of which smoke a lot of cigarettes and are wearing torn jeans.

Anonymous reiterates their demands, and stresses that unless all three kidnap victims are released, they will not only release the information, but they will also liquidate a certain cartel's bank account number. Said cartel member beats the two kidnap victims in a rage before shooting both in the head.

He immediately pulls his money out of the bank accounts, and attempts to transfer them to Bank of America or some other bank who caters to the high-rolling ill-gotten-gains crowd by taking great pains to avoid reporting the massive deposits, even going so far as to send an accountant as a financial adviser to Mexico to instruct said cartel member how to do so.

Anonymous intercepts the dirty accountant and leaves him in the middle of the desert in his underwear. A CU of a rattlesnake slowly heading towards him is the shot just before we cut to a sequence involving a Anonymous operative who visits the cartel manager and manages to obtain all of his financial information. Before he leaves, the cartel member's muscle puts a gun to his head insisting that he's a phony. The following exchange becomes a legendary scene, parodied and imitated for decades to come:

Muscle: You're a narc, aren't you?
Operative (coolly): You're not a pussy.
Muscle (pissed): What?
Operative: I said you're not a pussy.
Muscle: ...fucking kill you [stuffs the gun to his temple]
Operative: I'm saying you're not a pussy, and that's good.
Boss: Are you out of your fucking mind, my friend?
Operative: You never would have hired a pussy, that I'm certain. And there's only two possible reasons he didn't just put a bullet in my head. Either he's a pussy, or he knows I'm not a narc.
[Boss looks over at Muscle]
Boss: Either stop being a pussy or walk this gentleman to his car.
[Muscle reluctantly puts his gun down.]

Anonymous soon figures out that the cartel most likely has already killed their friends. They move the money out of the cartel member's accounts into a paypal account for Bradley Manning. The feds, already watching Anonymous, catch this and trace the transaction back to the cartel member, currently fuming over the loss of his funds. As a result, he finds himself in dire straits, as he owes money to several cartel leaders, who put a bounty on his head.

Anonymous releases the list of cartel members, and we soon learn that many of the cartel members are in the Mexican government, raising the eyre of world leaders. Some world leaders decide that action must be taken, but are surprisingly rebuffed by the Americans and Russia. We soon learn that some of the cartel leaders have strong and illegal ties to very influential members of the US government. Said US politicians have a meeting in which they decide they have to "take care of those people and clean up the mess" before they allow the other countries to screw things up. One of those politicians is the guy who played the Secretary of Defense in Independence Day.

The cartel member and his muscle, now on the run, decides he has to kill the cartel leaders before he is killed, and two Anonymous operatives (formerly Marines)head to Mexico to seek vengeance for their fallen comrades.

Of course, everyone (the politicians' goons, the exiled cartel member, Anonymous operatives, and some DEA agents for good measure, etc.) converges onto the same massive mansion in the mountains, bullets fly, people fall over balcony's after getting shot, and someone takes a woman hostage before getting shot in the back of the head by cleverly hidden sniper. Everyone dies except for the politicians' goons and the DEA agents. The politicians' goons kill the DEA agents and the last scene is one of the goons calling his girlfriend in the Philippines, telling her he's coming to visit her and he's bringing toys for their out of wedlock son. The final shot is him stopping in a toy store and making a wry comment as he cashes out.

I'm not minimizing the seriousness of all of this. It's just, when I think about the reality of the situation, it's really scary and I don't like to think about the fact there are people who are actually living this sort of thing. Reality isn't for me. I like my insulated middle America life. I like shifting my mind into a world where the credits roll at the end and I'll soon see the dead bodies frolicking along a beach on TMZ.com.
posted by Bathtub Bobsled at 3:57 PM on November 2, 2011

Where do these 4channers go when they die? To the /b/ in the sky?
posted by autoclavicle at 3:59 PM on November 2, 2011

My first thoughts upon reading about this over the weekend was that a lot of innocent people are about to die very violent deaths, starting with the alleged kidnapping victim. And anyone who knows anything about the cartels would know that as well, so these supposed members of Anonymous could not have been any real kind of friends of our kidnap victim. So I just assumed it was either the federales, la DEA, or rival cartels, specifically the Sinaloa Cartel, which is rumored to be Felipe Calderon's preferred winner in the cartel wars, dumping info gathered from intelligence out in the open and letting the chips fall where they may for los Zetas. And right now everybody hates the Zetas. Its almost fasionable these days. And easy too. From the original US trained Zetas (They're ALL dead now) to todays incarnation, they've always been good at being way more indiscriminately bloodthirsty than their competition. And while this is great for one's reputation, they are not favored to win this war. Anyway. This guy, Barett Brown-a former spokesperson for Anonymous, being involved tends to lend credibility to the enterprise. Still, I can't help but think that no mexican hacker in their right minds would go after the Zetas. Seriously. These are the people who would know first hand what they were up against. They would know, as was mentioned earlier, that the cartels most likely already employ the more talented members of the hacking community and have easy, root level access to most systems of communication and personal data storage through corruption. Also, being the best paying employers around, they can literally have world class computer science engineers up to the people who helped designed the very systems being used flown in and put to work for as long as it took. And that's not mentioning the fact that they have no problem grabbing the first nerd they see, torturing him to death, and with the 20 names provided by the kid (probably everyone he knew who could install their own operating system) starting again until someone comes up with the name of someone who likes to brag just a little to much about "K bueno haquear!". Yeah. No matter what, its a bad time to be a nerd in Mexico right now. On the bright side though, the hackers that live through this will be pretty impressive.
posted by jake1 at 4:07 PM on November 2, 2011

Sheesh. Land of the blind in here tonight.

This thing you do, where you insult everyone that you disagree with? It's not conducive to productive debate.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:16 PM on November 2, 2011 [3 favorites]

HTWRT

Sorry, its reflexive. I come from more combative climbs, I apologise.
posted by Cheradine Zakalwe at 4:46 PM on November 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

I think that the Anonymous crusade against Scientology had an impact on Scientology's influence in the US, but I have no evidence for this. Outside of St. Petersburg, Scientology had gotten fairly uncritical (if not positive) coverage in the press before "Operation Clambake". Tom Cruise's Oprah freakout added fuel, but I get the impression that Scientology is viewed a lot more cult-y these days and requests to remove CoS documents or hypothetical discussions about their members' medical conditions would be met with more pushback.
posted by Challahtronix at 5:11 PM on November 2, 2011 [3 favorites]

ugh, I meant Project Chanology. Operation Clambake has been around a lot longer and did a lot of the work compiling information about Scientology.
posted by Challahtronix at 5:14 PM on November 2, 2011

"You have one identity. The days of you having a different image for your work friends or co-workers and for the other people you know are probably coming to an end pretty quickly … Having two identities for yourself is an example of a lack of integrity."

posted by jason's_planet at 5:45 PM on November 2, 2011

"You have one identity. The days of you having a different image for your work friends or co-workers and for the other people you know are probably coming to an end pretty quickly … Having two identities for yourself is an example of a lack of integrity."

Zuckerberg is a two man douche canoe. Having one identity is an example of a lack of depth, tact, and self awareness.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:08 PM on November 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

"You have one identity. The days of you having a different image for your work friends or co-workers and for the other people you know are probably coming to an end pretty quickly … Having two identities for yourself is an example of a lack of integrity."

Totally screw that bullshit, #metalgear

/b/

(Its a /b/ that links to a TED talk that actually has the creator of /b/ talking... IRONY ATTACK)


On a more serious note, multiple identities within a shell self is an actual normative experience.

Hint: If you & your Ipad can't muster up at least 4 different identities, you fucking fail.

*Ahem* Sorry. In the spirit of MF, I meant "If you cannot deal with the indisputable fact that human beings are complex animals who may .. or may not... reveal their true identities and feelings towards you, and you lack all ability to judge this, then you need counseling, not a place on the board of the next political platform".
posted by Cheradine Zakalwe at 6:12 PM on November 2, 2011

Oh, and Zuckerberg is a total fucking wanker.


Funded by the CIA to boot.



No. More. Heroes. (eh?)
posted by Cheradine Zakalwe at 6:13 PM on November 2, 2011

Anonymous has done tremendous work against Scientology. But deranged as they are, Scientologists are not into outright murder. They're more about passive homicide.

If you're up against a foe who's capable of terrifying violence against you and anyone who's close to you, physically or emotionally, and really doesn't give a shit about online exposure—you're fucked.

Like Anonymous, we're all used to dealing with people and entities that have something invested in their presence online. Los Zetas does not have a website or a page on Facebook. Los Zetas does not care about friends or clicks. Los Zetas can't be blacklisted by Google. Los Zetas operates IRL, and IRL only.

Apparently, some Anonymii forgot that fact. It's easy to do and essential to resist.

I come from more combative climbs
With all good will: It's "climes," as in "climate."
posted by dogrose at 6:20 PM on November 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

they need to turn it over to the US FBI and the Mexican Army

Actually, the Mexican Army is borderline at this point. The Mexican Navy has been spearheading some of the more successful operations for the last couple of years, and is specifically engaged against the Zetas.
posted by dhartung at 6:44 PM on November 2, 2011

I come from more combative climbs
With all good will: It's "climes," as in "climate."


Yeah, loving you at this moment :)

I'm new, and haven't grasped that people here expect direct words, not puntastic stuff. Climes/Climbs has a history to it. Probably to do with this ancient stuff (apologies -- quick search, couldn't find the original)


Regarding Lo.S. Z.e.Tas [data mining, please... think Harry Potter] -- you're incorrect. The #1 problem for modern drug runners is laundering cash. You can find houses literally (!! sorry !!) stuffed with stacks of dollars. Laundering money in effective ways is the real problem for modern mafias.

And online stuff is exactly how to do it. L..0.S Z.3.tas really does have an online presence, and online laundering through... Zynga, for instance... is much easier than having to risk $100k in a car across the border. Especially since Southern state police are now in the habit of only stopping the cars going out towards Mexico in order to capture cash (*dangerous*).


Look up above anyhow about banks taking grey cash [semi-laundered] - I could detail the private contracted planes that have the Homeland Security spray paint on them that ship $$ millions into the USA... and provide the proof. But... the war on drugs has to go on, and it isn't the man in blue running it.

Sigh
posted by Cheradine Zakalwe at 6:50 PM on November 2, 2011

Hold on. How do they turn money spent on Zynga back into cash?
posted by dunkadunc at 6:57 PM on November 2, 2011

Hint: when you're laundering billions, you're not buying farm equipment in the virtual world.

All money is a through-flow. And a bust America needs... liquidity.
posted by Cheradine Zakalwe at 7:03 PM on November 2, 2011

I could detail the private contracted planes that have the Homeland Security spray paint on them that ship $$ millions into the USA... and provide the proof.

Really? Maybe you should. Because, with all due respect, you appear to be straying into tinfoil hat territory.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 7:40 PM on November 2, 2011

Los Zetas are too busy retaliating to 2Live Crew for their smear track.

"Fuck the Zetas! Fuck, fuck the Zay-tas!"
posted by Horselover Phattie at 7:48 PM on November 2, 2011

"Leave it to the experts"? Seriously?

For those critical of Anonymous, I'd like to know what it is that nerdy anti-corruption folks in Mexico should do instead of this. It seems like a lot of the criticism is that they've put innocents in danger: but innocents are already in danger, and dying in the tens of thousands! And I haven't seen anyone with much of a clue as to how to stop it all. In the face of that, it's easy to turn into a turtle, (Hannah Arendt called it "inner emigration") but these guys are trying, they're taking action. A lot of the comments have this kind of swagger to them, like "These nerds don't understand the real world has consequences," but I think that they do. The real world has problems, hackers live in the world, and so hackers have as much a right to try to solve those problems as anybody else does!

Compared to some of the boners that the ATF and the DEA have pulled in the Mexican drug war, it just feels really odd to tell a bunch of hackers with a relatively impressive track record to leave these matters to experts. Maybe the experts should leave it to the concerned citizens.
posted by anotherpanacea at 8:59 PM on November 2, 2011 [6 favorites]

Well, these Drug Cartels in Mexico are not selling drugs to Mexicans.

They most certainly are. Mexico has a serious and growing drug problem, including meth and heroin. In addition to the regular attractions of drugs, there is also the sales technique used by the cartels: "buy our product or your whole family will die".
posted by Fnarf at 11:50 PM on November 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

They most certainly are. Mexico has a serious and growing drug problem, including meth and heroin. In addition to the regular attractions of drugs, there is also the sales technique used by the cartels: "buy our product or your whole family will die"

That seems a bit overblown to me. And its difficult to make generalizations like that. For example, La Familia Michoacana prohibits its members from using drugs. It also discourages drug use in general. I know this information first-hand.

That is not to say that drug use in Mexico is not a growing problem but I think the point is that the majority of the money comes from supplying drugs to the country with the highest rate of consumption in the world.
posted by vacapinta at 12:41 AM on November 3, 2011

I could detail the private contracted planes that have the Homeland Security spray paint on them that ship $$ millions into the USA... and provide the proof.


By any chance the same planes Clinton used to have fly into Arkansas? I don't know, I'll never know, I can't go on, I'll go on.

Pics or it never happened.
posted by From Bklyn at 12:43 AM on November 3, 2011

A lot of the comments have this kind of swagger to them

they really do.

also these Occupy Wall Street people ought to go home and leave things to the adults with business degrees whose job it is to worry about these things, and since i am sticking up for the recognized authorities, i share in their seriousness and legitimacy. really! i do! just ask other people who are as legitimate and serious as i am!!
posted by This, of course, alludes to you at 2:57 AM on November 3, 2011 [1 favorite]

also @charadine moot talks a good game in front of TED cameras but that is about as far as it goes
posted by This, of course, alludes to you at 4:45 AM on November 3, 2011 [1 favorite]

The Mexican Navy has been spearheading some of the more successful operations for the last couple of years, and is specifically engaged against the Zetas.

Are you saying that the Mexican Navy is in the pockets of the Sinaloa cartel then?
posted by acb at 5:37 AM on November 3, 2011

And online stuff is exactly how to do it. L..0.S Z.3.tas really does have an online presence, and online laundering through... Zynga, for instance... is much easier than having to risk $100k in a car across the border. Especially since Southern state police are now in the habit of only stopping the cars going out towards Mexico in order to capture cash (*dangerous*).

Huh? do you have any evidence for this Zynga/Zetas connection? I seem to recall a connection with a shady Russian mobster or something.

also these Occupy Wall Street people ought to go home and leave things to the adults with business degrees whose job it is to worry about these things, and since i am sticking up for the recognized authorities, i share in their seriousness and legitimacy. really! i do! just ask other people who are as legitimate and serious as i am!!

When you're dealing with violent criminals? Well, it isn't clear that the 'authorities' can really do anything either.
posted by delmoi at 6:18 AM on November 3, 2011

Yes, I was referring to the Russian angle in Zynga - probably a bit obtusely.

Tinfoil time!

"Allegations by DEA" that there's something fishy going on when a plane crashes full of cocaine

Narco News on the subject - he's been accurate in the past, but of course apply some critical thinking

Drug planes in Mexico, Drug planes in Venezuela, links to Wachovia, CIA, extraordinary rendition - this guy covers it all. Apply tinfoil on entry, please make sure your seatbacks and tray tables are in their upright and locked position, thank you for traveling on Skyways chartered flights.


Oh, and regarding the TED talk - I agree, but it is at least interesting. I'm with the whole 'multiplicities of modal actor' in relation to personalities, not this FB / Google model, which I feel is more to do with capture of capital units rather than any serious theory of Being.
posted by Cheradine Zakalwe at 8:41 AM on November 3, 2011

Stratfor's analysis of the Anonymous campaign is that it might have positive consequences despite the certainty of Zetas blowback.
posted by AugieAugustus at 12:02 PM on November 3, 2011

Mexican hacker group member freed by cartel: report

"A Mexican member of online 'hacktivist' group Anonymous was released by the Zetas drug cartel ahead of a threat by the Web group to expose details of the crime ring's activities, Mexican television reported Friday." [PhysOrg.com]

Liberan 'Zetas' a integrante de Anonymous [Televisa]
posted by 0rison at 3:11 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]

Anonymous and the Zetas Cartel Declare a Truce
posted by homunculus at 4:17 PM on November 4, 2011

It Pays to Be the Face of Anonymous
posted by homunculus at 4:24 PM on November 4, 2011

gawker is sure upset at that guy
posted by This, of course, alludes to you at 4:39 PM on November 4, 2011

It doesn't pay to be the face of Anonymous if your body turns up somewhere, minus head.
posted by dunkadunc at 6:08 PM on November 4, 2011

Anonymous and the Zetas Cartel Declare a Truce

Now if only the rest of the country had access to the same information, the Zetas would have to declare a truce with EVERYONE.
posted by anotherpanacea at 8:37 AM on November 5, 2011

Whatever happened to Anonymous' Operation Cartel? (summary: it may be mostly Barrett Brown hyping his forthcoming book on Anonymous, or maybe not)
posted by filthy light thief at 12:36 PM on November 8, 2011

Face of Anonymous Flees North as Drug Cartels’ War on Bloggers Heats Up
posted by homunculus at 8:24 PM on November 10, 2011