September 29, 2001

5:45 PM

Stop having sex.Swaziland's King has ordered the women in his 25% AIDS infected country to stop having sex. Good idea or will this just encourage the even more riskier homosexual sex among frustrated males?
posted by skallas (33 comments total)

Is this a good idea? Does this question really even need to be asked? Looking at the teen pregnancy rate here in the US, I really don't see how any other country will fare with the same tired 'Don't have sex' line. I'm sorry, folks, but people will have sex no matter what you do. Personally, I think this is a bad idea. Although, I was mildly amused by the whole cows are the real currency comment. I don't know why.
posted by DarkWood at 5:53 PM on September 29, 2001

I'm umcwashed out after a quick google. These deluxe grainy pictures of HRH, in the midst of the distinctly-umcwasho Washington Times, may help one to understand why celibacy, in this case, may not be that much of a problem.



http://www.internationalspecialreports.com/africa/99/swaziland/10.html
posted by MiguelCardoso at 5:56 PM on September 29, 2001

I'm sorry, folks, but people will have sex no matter what you do. Personally, I think this is a bad idea.

Um, is that really what you meant to say? ;)
posted by rushmc at 6:01 PM on September 29, 2001

DarkWood: That's entirely dependent on the society that you're talking about. I know nothing about Swaziland's culture, and I'll bet that you don't either. You can't generalize how all societies will respond to a call of celibacy based on your interpretation of how one responded.

But I'm guessing that your real beef is with US policy. If I'm wrong, I apologize, but that's the vibe I get from your post. While I'm not going to derail this thready by going off on my full rant, I will mention one thing: rules, even ineffective rules, have a normative effect over time. Perceived societal acceptance of extra-marital sexual behavior sends a message to kinds; eventually, it helps to tilt the balance of the social climate towards greater acceptance.

At the root of the prevention/abstinence debate in America is, I think, another underlying debate: extra-marital sex good/bad.
posted by gd779 at 6:03 PM on September 29, 2001

hahaha. I just love the suggestion that str8 males will actually turn to gay sex out of despiration. It's so nice to be a last resort. Another skallas post. Gotta love him.
posted by brian at 6:05 PM on September 29, 2001

At the root of the prevention/abstinence debate in America is, I think, another underlying debate: extra-marital sex good/bad.

And let's not forget hypocrisy vs. honesty.
posted by rushmc at 6:07 PM on September 29, 2001

I just love the suggestion that str8 males will actually turn to gay sex out of despiration.

I definetly think there's the bi-curious element that either goes explored or unexplored depending on one's situation. Let's get graphic, maybe after the order to stop getting it on the chances of a Swazi male being in a circle jerk would increase. The same formula would apply to full penetration.

I do not see people as being either straight or gay, but potentially partaking of any sexual activity depending on a variety of factors.

Another skallas post. Gotta love him.

Yes, love me!
posted by skallas at 6:14 PM on September 29, 2001

Yes, love me!

:::wonders about this request, given the thrust of skallas' argument in this thread...:::
posted by rushmc at 6:24 PM on September 29, 2001

Cue Motorhead - "Love me Like A Reptile"

At least in my brain.

The crushing stupidity of humanity* never ceases to give me roofles. Perhaps it's just cultural chauvinism talking here, but I can't really believe there's anywhere in the world where, if you're in a clinch, the heart-rates going up and the underthings coming down, you stop and whisper "The King said we shouldn't do this!"... I mean, his heart's in the right place, sure, but please. No sex0ring saith the King? Would it not be a better idea to spend some of the royal bankroll on education and condoms?

*Except you MeFi people, of course. I love you guys!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:39 PM on September 29, 2001

Brian: men (or women for that matter) will turn to homosexuality if there is no other outlet. Not everyone, but a large precentage of the society. At least this is true in the animal world when bored scientists put a bunch of male rats in a cage for a long time. Nothing to be ashamed about, it's just the way things are.

On another note, if I was in Swaziland and I had to chose between keep my ants in pants and having sex I'd rather do the former. Having a 25% chance of getting aids really isn't worth it, it's not a moral choice but a survival thing.
posted by geoff. at 6:40 PM on September 29, 2001

if you're in a clinch, the heart-rates going up and the underthings coming down, you stop and whisper "The King said we shouldn't do this!"

It seems to work for God. Some of the time, anyway. The point is, if cultural norms are strong enough, it just might work. I'm doubtful, but it's possible.

(And yes, believe it or not, some people actually do remain virgins until marriage out of religious conviction.)
posted by gd779 at 6:45 PM on September 29, 2001

It seems to work for God.

Correction: For the self-appointed who flagellate in His name.
posted by rushmc at 6:48 PM on September 29, 2001

"The King said we shouldn't do this!"... I mean, his heart's in the right place, sure, but please.

Maybe in a liberal society, but I expect more mothers watching daughters and fathers watching both because (don't laugh) a cow is worth quite a bit. I think we can more of less rule out any privacy for any woman thirty and under.

Toss in the fear of actually dying of AIDS and your celibacy movement might make some ground. Might as well toss in AIDS awareness programs during these five years and breaking down the cultural/personal rejection of condoms and maybe their GenY will live past thirty.

I'm sure this will be a boon for prostitution which may be a very effective way of spreading the disease even further.
posted by skallas at 6:51 PM on September 29, 2001

One more thing: This might be the extreme that encourages positive rule breaking. "Okay lets do it, but we must use a condom and show me your recent blood test papers."
posted by skallas at 6:52 PM on September 29, 2001

Fair enough. Good point. But nonetheless, I think there's a lot more the King could do than issue edicts against sex... it's true that fear of Divine Retribution does keep some people from pre-marital nookie, but if people are going to take a chance of aquiring a deadly disease and angering their vengeful god at the same time, anything the King says is unlikely to influence the decision any further, I'd think.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:53 PM on September 29, 2001

Have you talked to any 14-year-old US kids lately? In the space of a generation or two we've gone from oral/anal sex being the most way out thing you can do to the first thing you do. This because we've convinced our little girls that 1. good girls stay virgins (and no I don't understand why oral/anal doesn't demolish that title in the minds of a lot of kids these days), 2. they don't want to get pregnant and 3. there are lots of nasty diseases out there.

I don't think it's too far out to believe that you could sell abstinence with a more visible and immediate threat of death hanging over the act (I think it's tough to convince most US teenagers they're going to die in an immediate it could happen because of what I'm doing at this moment way (at least middle class teenagers)). I suspect it would be even easier to sell abstinence in a society where the right to do something goes from God(s) to King to subjects as opposed to the US model where rights are implicit and the state has to demonstrate why they should be given up for the good of the whole.
posted by willnot at 7:45 PM on September 29, 2001

I read once that when israel was a new nation, the ruling body proposed a curfew for women in order to prevent them from being raped. golda meir asked, "why not a curfew for men?"

I'm surprised that no one here has asked why the king didn't tell the *men* in his kingdom to stop having sex?
posted by rebeccablood at 8:21 PM on September 29, 2001

Looks like the King is not exactly into practicing what he preaches:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/africa/newsid_1568000/1568163.stm

Apparently, the King has the right to marry annually.
posted by MAYORBOB at 8:44 PM on September 29, 2001

I'm surprised that no one here has asked why the king didn't tell the *men* in his kingdom to stop having sex?

Because a bunch of sexually frustrated, machete-weilding, warrior types can give a king a real bad day.
posted by Optamystic at 8:46 PM on September 29, 2001

and a bunch of sexually frustrated women *won't*?
posted by rebeccablood at 8:56 PM on September 29, 2001

Well, not in the Louis XVI sense, anyway. Not saying they couldn't, but it would seem highly unlikely in this case. I'm guessing the fine kingdom of Swaziland's female populace is a few years behind the ol' Feminine Self-Actualization Bell Curve.
posted by Optamystic at 9:40 PM on September 29, 2001

ouch
posted by Robin at 9:53 PM on September 29, 2001

I just love the suggestion that str8 males will actually turn to gay sex out of despiration.

Brian, before you get your delicate sensibilities too offended, I have two words for you: prison sex.

One more: spellchecker.
posted by Karl at 10:41 PM on September 29, 2001

The BBC reports that the king also proclaimed that the women shouldn't wear pants and should wear tassels. Won't women not wearing pants make enforcement difficult. Plus tassels are a big turn on.
posted by obedo at 10:56 PM on September 29, 2001

Plus tassels are a big turn on.

Yeah, but cows being the "one true currency" has really put a damper on the strip club business.
posted by Optamystic at 11:00 PM on September 29, 2001

Kinda obviates the need for a leather wallet, doesn't it?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:07 PM on September 29, 2001

Yeah, but cows being the "one true currency" has really put a damper on the strip club business.

not to mention the banking industry...
posted by bragadocchio at 11:57 PM on September 29, 2001

You'd need a pretty large thong though :-)

I don't think that the King has read Lysistrata, by Aristophanes. It kinda warns of the consequences of having women refrain from sex with their husbands...
posted by clevershark at 11:59 PM on September 29, 2001

No one has asked the obvious question. What about the LIVESTOCK??? Who's going to protect them?
posted by waffleboy at 7:26 AM on September 30, 2001

I see a business opportunity in masturbation instruments.
posted by slowlightning at 2:50 PM on September 30, 2001

HIV prevalence is high because of "intergenerational sex" says the Guardian of Swaziland - "older men having sexual relations with young girls".
posted by swampcottage at 3:05 AM on October 1, 2001

Working link here.
posted by Optamystic at 4:50 AM on October 1, 2001

"Hey, buddy...got change for a Holstein?"
posted by Optamystic at 8:37 PM on October 1, 2001