To create is to resist, to resist is to create
November 23, 2011 3:03 PM Subscribe
In Time for outrage! (Indignez-vous in French, ¡Indignaos! in Spanish), a short pamphlet published at the end of 2010, 93-year old Stéphane Hessel, a former French Resistance fighter and diplomat, called for young people to fight injustice. He struck a nerve, and his little book not only became a surprise best-seller (3.5 million copies worldwide, translated into 10 languages) but gave its name (Indignados) to the Spanish protest movement that started in May 2011 and later inspired other protests in many countries, including France, Greece, Israel, and the USA with Occupy Wall Street. Interview with Hessel about the Occupy movements. First page of the official translation. Unofficial translation (of lesser quality). Bonus: Stéphane Hessel's mother, played by Jeanne Moreau in Truffaut's classic Jules and Jim.
I'm not so big on the "spirit of joyful inclusion" at our Occupation. I am all for exclusion. I spend more time than I'd like trying to exclude the homeless guy with hepatitis from our food tent.
posted by charlie don't surf at 3:46 PM on November 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by charlie don't surf at 3:46 PM on November 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
Inclusion doesn't mean your homeless guy, charlie, but people dissatisfied with the current political process no matter their position on the political spectrum. There are an awful lot of otherwise right-wing people who'll support a vaguely, but not terribly concretely, leftist movement that's applying concrete pressure against universal evils like : the coddling of the financial industry, corruption in government, militarization of the police, immunity of the police to prosecution for their crimes, etc. In fact, you'll find many moving towards the left themselves if OWS makes any progress on these issues, like perhaps preventing some near future bailout of Bank of America.
posted by jeffburdges at 4:08 PM on November 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by jeffburdges at 4:08 PM on November 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
Best way to defuse and discredit OWS in the US? Give credit for its creation to the French.
posted by cjorgensen at 4:36 PM on November 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by cjorgensen at 4:36 PM on November 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
Which is funny cause we owe our existence as a nation-state to the French. Lafayette is more than a street in the Lower East Side you know.
posted by The Whelk at 5:01 PM on November 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 5:01 PM on November 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
Inclusion doesn't mean your homeless guy
Why not? I got interested in Occupy Vancouver because of its radical commitment to amplifying the voices of marginalized people. People on the margins are people who have suffered the most from economic inequity. I've seen formerly homeless tent people become passionate activists. If they're willing to fight for me and mine, shouldn't I be welcoming them?
I spend more time than I'd like trying to exclude the homeless guy with hepatitis from our food tent
Do we have to have a blood test for hepatitis before we're allowed to join the Occupation?
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 5:12 PM on November 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
Why not? I got interested in Occupy Vancouver because of its radical commitment to amplifying the voices of marginalized people. People on the margins are people who have suffered the most from economic inequity. I've seen formerly homeless tent people become passionate activists. If they're willing to fight for me and mine, shouldn't I be welcoming them?
I spend more time than I'd like trying to exclude the homeless guy with hepatitis from our food tent
Do we have to have a blood test for hepatitis before we're allowed to join the Occupation?
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 5:12 PM on November 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
Here's some thoughts on homeless folks in the occupy movement (and here's the text version).
posted by girandole at 5:49 PM on November 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by girandole at 5:49 PM on November 23, 2011 [1 favorite]
"Lafayette is more than a street in the Lower East Side you know."
It's a whole square in dc!
posted by stratastar at 5:54 PM on November 23, 2011
It's a whole square in dc!
posted by stratastar at 5:54 PM on November 23, 2011
Dear, I'm geometrically challenged. It's a circle.
The Democracy Now interview is quite good, so was his Charlie Rose interview from a few months ago (not online).
posted by stratastar at 6:01 PM on November 23, 2011
The Democracy Now interview is quite good, so was his Charlie Rose interview from a few months ago (not online).
posted by stratastar at 6:01 PM on November 23, 2011
Why not? I got interested in Occupy Vancouver because of its radical commitment to amplifying the voices of marginalized people. People on the margins are people who have suffered the most from economic inequity. I've seen formerly homeless tent people become passionate activists. If they're willing to fight for me and mine, shouldn't I be welcoming them?
I spend more time than I'd like trying to exclude the homeless guy with hepatitis from our food tent
Do we have to have a blood test for hepatitis before we're allowed to join the Occupation?
I think there is a big opportunity for lasting change that may be being missed here. Imagine if there was a group that could put an encampment up anywhere and immediately take care of their needs for food, shelter, clothing, security, basic medical services and teach consensus decision making, basic OWS political theory and ways to make a difference.
posted by psycho-alchemy at 7:18 PM on November 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
I spend more time than I'd like trying to exclude the homeless guy with hepatitis from our food tent
Do we have to have a blood test for hepatitis before we're allowed to join the Occupation?
I think there is a big opportunity for lasting change that may be being missed here. Imagine if there was a group that could put an encampment up anywhere and immediately take care of their needs for food, shelter, clothing, security, basic medical services and teach consensus decision making, basic OWS political theory and ways to make a difference.
posted by psycho-alchemy at 7:18 PM on November 23, 2011 [3 favorites]
Inclusion doesn't mean your homeless guy, charlie, but people dissatisfied with the current political process no matter their position on the political spectrum.
Yes of course. I listen to lots of people from a wide variety of political opinions. I listen to 18 year old freshmen ranting at me about free markets and Ron Paul. I listen to people telling me about how they are a Sovereign Citizen. I listen to old hippies tell their stories about the sixties, and how nobody could ever come close to what they did. I listen to libertarians, anarchists, socialists, Republicans etc. I listen to people who hate Francisco Franco, Castro, Kim Jong Il, FDR, JFK, Nixon, Clinton, hell, they even tell me Jimmy Carter is the antichrist. I always say the Occupation is a space for the disaffected to voice their opinions, because nobody else is listening to them.
But the predominant theme I hear is people who want to fight yesterday's battles. I am getting to the point where I've pretty much heard it all. Don't come to me and complain that nobody cares about what you say, when you are coming at me with the exact same right-wing Fox News rant I heard 20 times this week. There might be a good reason why nobody is listening to you. Don't tell me your opinions are marginalized when you got them off of some media outlet, or from some lunatic fringe group, or even from a Congressman.
I think about the only thing I haven't heard is what's in Hessel's statements: WWII anti-Nazi sentiments. I mean, everyone hates Hitler, but most of the people who have a direct reason to hate Hitler are dead. Most of the people who I talk to don't have enough knowledge of history to apply any of it to current events.
But the most tiresome aspect of all of this, people expect me to listen and then do what they tell me to do, and think what they tell me to think. That's exactly what I'm out there protesting. They expect me to carry their burden, and fight their battles - yesterday's battles. That is the OLD thinking that got us here, to this point of desperation.
posted by charlie don't surf at 8:36 PM on November 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
Yes of course. I listen to lots of people from a wide variety of political opinions. I listen to 18 year old freshmen ranting at me about free markets and Ron Paul. I listen to people telling me about how they are a Sovereign Citizen. I listen to old hippies tell their stories about the sixties, and how nobody could ever come close to what they did. I listen to libertarians, anarchists, socialists, Republicans etc. I listen to people who hate Francisco Franco, Castro, Kim Jong Il, FDR, JFK, Nixon, Clinton, hell, they even tell me Jimmy Carter is the antichrist. I always say the Occupation is a space for the disaffected to voice their opinions, because nobody else is listening to them.
But the predominant theme I hear is people who want to fight yesterday's battles. I am getting to the point where I've pretty much heard it all. Don't come to me and complain that nobody cares about what you say, when you are coming at me with the exact same right-wing Fox News rant I heard 20 times this week. There might be a good reason why nobody is listening to you. Don't tell me your opinions are marginalized when you got them off of some media outlet, or from some lunatic fringe group, or even from a Congressman.
I think about the only thing I haven't heard is what's in Hessel's statements: WWII anti-Nazi sentiments. I mean, everyone hates Hitler, but most of the people who have a direct reason to hate Hitler are dead. Most of the people who I talk to don't have enough knowledge of history to apply any of it to current events.
But the most tiresome aspect of all of this, people expect me to listen and then do what they tell me to do, and think what they tell me to think. That's exactly what I'm out there protesting. They expect me to carry their burden, and fight their battles - yesterday's battles. That is the OLD thinking that got us here, to this point of desperation.
posted by charlie don't surf at 8:36 PM on November 23, 2011 [2 favorites]
.pdf copy of English translation of "Indignez-vous!" ("Time For Outrage") is available here, on right side of page, on box.net download widget.
posted by dancestoblue at 10:58 PM on November 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by dancestoblue at 10:58 PM on November 24, 2011 [1 favorite]
Do we have to have a blood test for hepatitis before we're allowed to join the Occupation?
To join the Occupation? Of course not. At the same time, should somebody with hepatitis participate in preparing food for the group? Of course not. That's about basic health and infection avoidance, not about whether somebody who's homeless or sick should "be allowed" to actively participate in Occupy. Similarly, if somebody has TB, they put everybody around them at risk if they join a protest or take part in an Occupation.
The rights and needs of a hypothetical Occupier with TB matter and must be taken into consideration. The rights and needs of the other hypothetical Occupiers (for whom contracting TB could be devastating or fatal) also matter and also must be taken into consideration.
Seriously, if somebody had a cold and was coughing and sneezing but wanted to work in the food tent, would asking them to find something else to do until they were healthier again really seem unreasonable?
(This is, of course, assuming that "the homeless guy with hepatitis" means "the homeless guy who has told me he has hepatitis", not "the homeless guy whom I'm assuming has hepatitis". I'm thinking about questions of public health and food preparation, not defending biased assumptions.)
posted by Lexica at 2:07 PM on December 4, 2011
To join the Occupation? Of course not. At the same time, should somebody with hepatitis participate in preparing food for the group? Of course not. That's about basic health and infection avoidance, not about whether somebody who's homeless or sick should "be allowed" to actively participate in Occupy. Similarly, if somebody has TB, they put everybody around them at risk if they join a protest or take part in an Occupation.
The rights and needs of a hypothetical Occupier with TB matter and must be taken into consideration. The rights and needs of the other hypothetical Occupiers (for whom contracting TB could be devastating or fatal) also matter and also must be taken into consideration.
Seriously, if somebody had a cold and was coughing and sneezing but wanted to work in the food tent, would asking them to find something else to do until they were healthier again really seem unreasonable?
(This is, of course, assuming that "the homeless guy with hepatitis" means "the homeless guy who has told me he has hepatitis", not "the homeless guy whom I'm assuming has hepatitis". I'm thinking about questions of public health and food preparation, not defending biased assumptions.)
posted by Lexica at 2:07 PM on December 4, 2011
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From the "Interview" link:
What did we learn in the concentration camps? We learned solidarity, living together. It was really a place where Europe was born, because so many Europeans of different nationalities were together in these camps. And they knew that what they wanted was good not only for one country, but it was good for Europe as a whole.
I think what's needed most right now (in Vancouver at least) is a spirit of joyful inclusion. We need to see people who are accustomed to being outraged at each other across a political divide coming together and finding a common cause. More than that, we need to start finding the willingness to defend each other. We need to build solidarity. Together we can beat what's been grinding us all down. It's a happy thought, an attractive thought.
before anyone says "why aren't you out there doing it" let me say that I'm trying, I'm trying...
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 3:31 PM on November 23, 2011 [7 favorites]