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From The Great State of...Cook County?
November 25, 2011 1:22 PM   Subscribe

"Downstate families are tired of Chicago dictating its views to the rest of us." Two Downstate Illinois state legislators, Rep. Bill Mitchell (R-Forsyth) and Rep. Adam Brown (R-Decatur), have proposed a bill to make Cook County its own state. Of course, this is a lot easier said than done.
posted by SisterHavana (96 comments total) 4 users marked this as a favorite

 
If we can't defeat them damned libruls, then we'll just send 'em packin' to their own gulagstate.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:23 PM on November 25, 2011


If we don't have enough Red States, let's make more! They're obviously trying to copy the California right-wingnuts to make a new state from the least liberal counties. Just another Republican election-stealing gambit.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:30 PM on November 25, 2011 [2 favorites]


You can be a state on the condition that its residents will be called "Cookies".
posted by Trurl at 1:30 PM on November 25, 2011 [8 favorites]


Awesome.

I remember my stepfather, during a visit to Chicago, whilst he was doing a educational technology consulting round, with Cook County schools, telling me about the idea of a new statewide tax they were proposing with all the proceeds going to Chicago schools only. I respect education as much as anyone, but I will be damned if I will pay for Chicago mismanaging their schools.
posted by Samizdata at 1:32 PM on November 25, 2011 [2 favorites]


Samizdata, you're mad about a proposed bill from years ago that you only know about second hand that would have helped poor students?
posted by octothorpe at 1:40 PM on November 25, 2011 [42 favorites]


If we don't have enough Red States, let's make more!

FWIW, Illinois without Cook County would still have been blue in 2008 (by 282,234 votes). If that's their plan, it seems pretty dicey.
posted by Clandestine Outlawry at 1:41 PM on November 25, 2011 [3 favorites]


"to Chicago schools only" probably meant "to poorer schools only". Disinformation runs from one generation to another.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:43 PM on November 25, 2011 [9 favorites]


Of course he is.

Illinois is all of Illinois, and that's the way it will stay.

And if anyone from Decatur is involved, then so is ADM.

Also, Chicago is not liberal, it's on the make.
posted by dglynn at 1:45 PM on November 25, 2011 [3 favorites]


I'm pretty sure Chicago gives more to Illinois than it gets back as far as tax revenue is concerned.
posted by Max Power at 1:45 PM on November 25, 2011 [23 favorites]


I'm sure Cook County citizens would be happy to stop subsidizing those downstaters with all their tax money.
posted by brookeb at 1:49 PM on November 25, 2011 [4 favorites]


I'm sure Cook County citizens would be happy to stop subsidizing those downstaters with all their tax money.

So, it's mutually agreed then? Let's do it.
posted by michaelh at 1:51 PM on November 25, 2011 [2 favorites]


We all need to get behind these idiots and pronto. They want to make two states, thinking (being unable to stop using the Faux News 'objectivist' method), that they'll have better national representation and better state representation. They're wrong on both counts, as at best their will be one deep blue state with x seats and two senate seats in addition to a purple state with x-1 or 2 seats and two senate seats.

State wise... they might be better off? They just can't seem to use data that might hinder their beliefs, so I guess they'll just assume it'll help them regardless?

In any case, it would give democrats one or two extra seats in the senate.

Yes. Fucking. Please.
posted by Slackermagee at 1:53 PM on November 25, 2011 [6 favorites]


Taking a look at their chosen legal precedent:

WHEREAS, The law authorized that the inhabitants of Maine vote on secession, and the inhabitants voted in July 1819 to secede from Massachusetts...

Doesn't this support a claim that the downstaters have a right to secede, and not for them to kick someone else out?

Don't get me wrong -- the resolution is strictly Amateur Hour in quite a few ways for just two pages -- but don't they have it backwards? Wouldn't Chicago properly remain Illinois according to the Maine precedent, and the downstaters have to leave Illinois?

*shrugs*
posted by Capt. Renault at 1:54 PM on November 25, 2011 [2 favorites]


octothorpe: "Samizdata, you're mad about a proposed bill from years ago that you only know about second hand that would have helped poor students?"

Not mad anymore. Just getting tired of being a taxpayer paying the bill for other's mistakes. Mistakes being made by people who are supposed to be experts.
posted by Samizdata at 1:57 PM on November 25, 2011


I think I speak for Indiana when I say that we will take your poor, your sick, your old, and other things not relating to the Cubs.
posted by Cyclopsis Raptor at 2:01 PM on November 25, 2011 [1 favorite]


I'm actually in favor of some new city-state model with open borders everywhere and no nation-states, but I think we're several centuries away from anything like that. I'll go read the article now.
posted by Burhanistan at 2:02 PM on November 25, 2011 [4 favorites]


I grew up in downstate Illinois, and have lived in Chicago for over 20 years. Downstate Illinois, is a great place to be from. Emphasis on the from.

Obviously, there are good people working hard for what they believe in, on either side of the political spectrum, yet taking that into consideration, I must say, I know the mindset. I know these folks. I know this is going to be full of generalizations but hear me out.

Chicago is a big scary mystery to them. Many have never lived more than 20 miles from where they were born. Sure, they take the occasional Southwest shuttle to Vegas, or drive to Branson, but their world view tends to come from a 16 page newspaper that comes out once a week, or in this age of cable/internet etc., whatever ever pushes their buttons to reaffirm their existing beliefs.

They come here to shop, see a concert or sporting event, They keep their windows rolled up, and their doors locked. They are unaccustomed to driving on anything with more than four lanes and the very sight of a minority widens their eyes, and will be something they tell their friends about when they get back home, feeling like they have survived something.

"Nothing but a bunch of nigger mamas"

"You'll get yourself killed"

"Who want's to live with all that garbage and crime?"

These are real quotes from my hometown.

I've found it to be different. The old trope about "a city of neighborhoods" is true. Chicago is not one huge polyglot, it is about 60 small towns that abut each other. For better or worse, it get's in your blood. You get it. It's like becoming a made man. That day comes when, if someone asks you where you are from, you say "I'm from Chicago", and it comes out with both pride and attitude.

There has always been a resentment downstate, thinking that Chicago somehow siphons off available tax dollars for its schools etc. I don't know the numbers, or whether what goes to Cook County is out of line, or if downstate communities suffer because of that. But I am pretty damned tired of hearing about it.

This is nothing more than some right wing bullshit stunt, by a couple of Tea Party douchebags trying to get their name in the paper. I was born and raised here, and have spent most of my adult life in Illinois. I've never even heard of Forsyth until this post.

I'm all for equity, and I know Chicago is not perfect. We're just corrupt enough to keep the streets paved, and the garbage picked up, the unions happy and police on the street. If I call my alderman for something, it gets done, because he knows from my adress that I voted for him. That is a small town touch, that I don't think most small towns can claim.

It's a big fucked up mess of every ethnicity, degree of criminal, aroma of bakery, and difficulty in finding a parking spot. We are all neighbors.

Fuck you. I'm from Chicago.
posted by timsteil at 2:15 PM on November 25, 2011 [98 favorites]


Interesting take on the situation. Looks like the collar counties are getting the shaft by both Chicago AND downstate.
posted by Max Power at 2:15 PM on November 25, 2011 [3 favorites]


Those downstate clowns think that they've got a plan -- just wait until the City of Chicago starts tagging on a VAT for their use of O'Hare, city streets and Chicago's other ports.

Down-staters will be whining a different tune. Chicago is one of the few good things they've got going on.
posted by vhsiv at 2:16 PM on November 25, 2011 [3 favorites]


It's interesting that naturalized citizens are required to have a keener grasp of the way our system of government works than are elected officials.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 2:28 PM on November 25, 2011 [4 favorites]


Hm, don't give Wisconsin any ideas.
posted by desjardins at 2:30 PM on November 25, 2011 [1 favorite]


Idiots from eastern Washington sing the same song every so often. "We don't want to pay for your floating bridges or your viaduct; we should be our own state." And, honestly, I'd be okay with it. Keep the apples and the tumbleweeds and we'll keep the tax dollars generated by the ports, computers companies and aerospace manufacturing.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 2:34 PM on November 25, 2011 [5 favorites]


(Eastern. Should probably use correct capitalization when calling people idiots.)
posted by The Hamms Bear at 2:36 PM on November 25, 2011


Idiots from eastern Washington sing the same song every so often.

Honestly, the tax dollars from west of the Cascades pay pretty much for all the improvements you guys make over there. Not to mention the large amount of money which Gregoire has funneled into improvements on this side of the state in the past year or three. Frankly, you guys are paying for us to have better roads, bridges, and completely new highways.

I haven't heard a single person in the 8 years that I've lived here say anything about feeling like Eastern WA should split off and go it alone. If anything, the complaints had been (up until a year or three ago) that not enough state funds get sent our way because you guys keep hogging it all. That's fallen by the wayside, and instead people are complaining about all the fucking construction zones.

Ultimately, I'm not sure what you're really saying. Have you ever lived here, or are you speaking out of some kind of parody of Eastern WA residents which Western WA people carry around in their heads?
posted by hippybear at 2:45 PM on November 25, 2011 [1 favorite]


Wow...way to go politicians.

2 more red seats in the senate...and a new downstate state that doesnt have the economy to support itself.

Outstanding.
posted by hal_c_on at 2:52 PM on November 25, 2011


I would trade them to IN or KY for a box of apples. OTOH there is an ungodly amount of public debt and unfunded pension that they'll need to come up with first.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 2:57 PM on November 25, 2011


I live in Chicago. As to this deal?

Done. When are you going to stop taking my money? The reason taxes are so high in Chicago is that Illinois pays out far more in federal tax than it gets in federal spending, and Cook County pays out far more in Illinois taxes than it gets in Illinois spending.

Illinois population? 13 million. Cook County? 5.2 million.

So, yeah, the forty percent of the state is tired of supporting the other sixty percent.

Kick us out. Please!
posted by eriko at 3:03 PM on November 25, 2011 [6 favorites]


I guess a downstater would say to all these sour grapes comments that they would rather be independent of Chicago regardless of the money, as strange as it sounds.

Fuck you. I'm from Chicago.

That is quite moving, but refreshing honesty won't convince downstaters that Mike Madigan isn't so bad (whether he is or not.) Calling them racists as if it's common there or absent in Chicago isn't necessary either.
posted by michaelh at 3:09 PM on November 25, 2011


Hippybear, I've never lived over there other than a six month stint for work. The people are fine. They're people like anywhere else. Mostly.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 3:10 PM on November 25, 2011


Oh, God. It'll be a cold day in hell before I work for the University of Indiana, Urbana-Champaign.

I might be able to get behind Indiana University-Purdue University Urbana-Champaign, but only if "Hiawatha the Hyphen" became the new politically incorrect mascot.

Wait, what were we talking about?
posted by erniepan at 3:12 PM on November 25, 2011 [3 favorites]


Sigh... I live in Chicago and this happens every now and then. As in New York, there is significant strain between the needs of a large, diverse, complex metropolitan populace and the mostly rural state.

It is mostly for show. Congressmen from downstate can drum up support from their constituents by making a lot of noise about secession. But realistically, severing Cook County from the rest of Illinois would only further bankrupt the state by removing the largest population center with the highest incomes and thus highest tax base.

Oddly enough, a number of suburbs have attempted to secede from Cook County in a similar sceme to drum up support.

In short, this sort of thing should be seen for what it is: a political move aimed at gaining media attention, with no real chance of passing.
posted by deathpanels at 3:24 PM on November 25, 2011 [2 favorites]


Senseless, time consuming, political posturing.
posted by tomswift at 3:25 PM on November 25, 2011 [3 favorites]


Why am I not surprised that these two chuckleheads are from the Decatur area? Decatur, for those of you that are unfamiliar with it, is home to the headquarters of Archer Daniels Midland, an agribusiness giant that is so corrupt that it got its own Matt Damon movie. And these clowns are going on about how bad Chicago is?

Sometimes, I've speculated that if you extended the Mason-Dixon line further west to the Mississippi, it would divide Ohio, Indiana and Illinois in half; you could think of them as the Great Lakes and Ohio Valley halves. That would actually leave Decatur just north of the border, but if they really wanted to, the line could be nudged north a bit for them, and they could could enjoy life on the big ADM plantation. Their new boss might do away with the legislature entirely, though.
posted by Halloween Jack at 3:39 PM on November 25, 2011 [1 favorite]


Mostly.

Yeah, okay, I'll grant you one Bob Morton from Kettle Falls.

Still, nothing in that article says anything similar to what you claim the reasons that "idiots from Eastern WA" might give for wanting to split off. And as I said, I haven't heard a single actual person make that argument, so it could be that Morton is as much a posturing media hound as these guys in Illinois.

Anyway, we love you guys, and you love us. Stop with the whole "they're yokels over there" mentality, and we'll stop with the whole "they hog all the state finances" thing over here. Neither of them are true, and both of them are bigoted views directed toward faceless masses of people.
posted by hippybear at 3:47 PM on November 25, 2011 [3 favorites]


If it's anything like what would happen if NYC were made its own state... I don't see the drawback to Chicagoans. You mean, Cook County gets to keep all the tax revenue generated by having a major commercial base? And when it tries to solve actual urban problems, it doesn't get jammed up at the state level by moralizing politicians who have never set foot in a poor neighborhood or a black neighborhood? And the U.S. Constitution prevents the now Chicago-less Illinois from doing anything seriously harmful like limiting trade or movement across state lines? What an empty bluff.
posted by dixiecupdrinking at 3:59 PM on November 25, 2011 [10 favorites]


Oh, and Cook County gets two senators all to itself. A nice little cherry on top.
posted by dixiecupdrinking at 4:02 PM on November 25, 2011 [2 favorites]


Look, "idiots from Eastern Washington" isn't an all inclusive so I'm not sure why you're all worked up about it. The Rossi/Gregoire divide was huge and encompassed a lot of things including taxes and who pays for what, where and how.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 4:08 PM on November 25, 2011


erniepan: If Chicagoland seceded, the University of Illinois would rake in the big bucks because the majority of its students would have to start paying out-of-state tuition. (This could supplement their current plan of collecting overseas tuition from the nouveau riche kids who blew their gaokao exams.)
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 4:14 PM on November 25, 2011


I guess new editions of Sufjan Stevens' well-known album would have to be split out into a two-disc set.
posted by kaibutsu at 4:22 PM on November 25, 2011 [1 favorite]


Oh man, I am from Chicago and I'd be all over this like celery salt on a hot dog. Let's see what happens to downstate's infrastructure without my taxes to help fund it. Let's see what happens to U of I C/U without my taxes to help fund it. In my fantasy world of this actually happening, I give it two years before they're begging to re-join the Union.
posted by tzikeh at 4:24 PM on November 25, 2011 [2 favorites]


PLUS -- Chicago could elect a governor who didn't have to pander to the rest of the state. That would be a dream come true.
posted by tzikeh at 4:26 PM on November 25, 2011 [3 favorites]


Time to nominate some new names for this new "South Illinois":

1) Methlabistan
2) Corn
3) Flatland
4) Jesus Christ!
5) Fuckwitistan
posted by mrbarrett.com at 4:30 PM on November 25, 2011 [16 favorites]


I have family downstate, so I could do without the cheap snark, but this is stupid and will fade quickly.
posted by jonmc at 4:51 PM on November 25, 2011 [3 favorites]


And Northwestern still wouldn't be Chicago's Big Ten team.
posted by gyc at 4:56 PM on November 25, 2011 [1 favorite]


6) Fucking Downstate

Wait, that's what we already call it!
posted by eriko at 4:59 PM on November 25, 2011 [6 favorites]


Decatur, for those of you that are unfamiliar with it, is home to the headquarters of Archer Daniels Midland, an agribusiness giant that is so corrupt that it got its own Matt Damon movie. And these clowns are going on about how bad Chicago is?

My downstate relatives are from Decatur, and they don't work for ADM. I'd really fucking appreciate it if you didn't call them clowns.
posted by jonmc at 4:59 PM on November 25, 2011 [1 favorite]


I would trade them to IN or KY for a box of apples.

Sold. BTW, We Louisvillians would love to part ways with the rest of OUR state. Where do we sign up?

I might be able to get behind Indiana University-Purdue University Urbana-Champaign,

Then it would be called "Oowie pooie uck". Deal cancelled, Give them to the Hoosiers, that's way too good to pass up.
posted by Mcable at 5:01 PM on November 25, 2011


Toronto keeps getting screwed by the province, and their realtionship has completely broken down, i figure if the population center is this large and this powerful, it should be treated like a province. I wonder if Chicago (or New York or LA) would have the same problems--it seems to
posted by PinkMoose at 5:22 PM on November 25, 2011


mrbarrett.com: "1) Methlabistan"

No, that's outstate Missouri.
posted by notsnot at 5:48 PM on November 25, 2011


I'd really fucking appreciate it if you didn't call them clowns.

Sorry, did I neglect to connect the dots sufficiently to make it clear that by "clowns" I was referring to Mitchell and Brown? I was making the point that they have no business pointing figures at Chicago (or anywhere else) as long as the stench of corruption hangs around their own town.

BTW, I live downstate and am from there, although I spent my high school years in Chicago.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:05 PM on November 25, 2011 [1 favorite]


Illinois doesn't want Chicago anymore? As a Wisconsinite, I call dibs.
posted by danherwig at 6:12 PM on November 25, 2011 [2 favorites]


State Motto - We Don't Want Nobody Nobody Sent
State Fish - The TIF District Freshwater Leech
State Bird - The Bird (aka middle finger)
State Slogan - Our Mayor Sold the City Parking Meters, the Skyway - and All I Got Was this Lousy T-Shirt
posted by Bighappyfunhouse at 6:17 PM on November 25, 2011 [1 favorite]


Oh, and Cook County gets two senators all to itself. A nice little cherry on top.

Better, they would be effing golden.
posted by JackFlash at 6:27 PM on November 25, 2011 [3 favorites]


Southern Illinoisan here. Not all of us are fundamentalist Christian, gun-totin' whackaloons. In fact, where I live there is a preponderance of Democrats (they always win elections), and our schools regularly compete successfully with some of the best schools of Chicago. We have also given you some nice things: Miles Davis, Bucky Fuller, etc… . Further, many of us downstaters think this is an extra stupid idea besides. We do, however, have some legitimate gripes about the way Chicago treats us at times. And some of the comments here show that hostility towards us quite well.
posted by readyfreddy at 6:46 PM on November 25, 2011 [9 favorites]


Hm, don't give Wisconsin any ideas.
posted by desjardins at 4:30 PM on November 25


"78 square miles surrounded by reality" that's what they say about Madtown, right?


Illinois doesn't want Chicago anymore? As a Wisconsinite, I call dibs.
posted by danherwig at 8:12 PM on November 25


As a Wisconsinite, I call FIBs!
posted by symbioid at 6:52 PM on November 25, 2011 [3 favorites]


State Slogan - Our Mayor Sold the City Parking Meters, the Skyway - and All I Got Was this Lousy T-Shirt

I didn't get no damn t-shirt!
posted by Max Power at 7:11 PM on November 25, 2011


New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

So, if I'm reading this right, assuming those semicolons and commas were used with due care, Cook County: The State wouldn't fly, but, say, Cook County: Just Another Non-Contiguous Chunk of Michigan might be cool, so long as Illinois and Michigan okay it?

That'd be neat. They might as well nab all of Chicagoland while they're at it, though. Maybe just drop the Michigan border down to the Kankakee River, over to the Fox River, then up to the Wisconsin border? Of course, that'd completely cut off Illinois from the major ports of the Saint Lawrence Seaway, but, hey.

So, anyway, once that's all done, the new and improved Michigan can come join Canada.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:50 PM on November 25, 2011 [2 favorites]



"78 square miles surrounded by reality" that's what they say about Madtown, right?


And now with the "fertilized eggs are people, too!" amendment, we're like the Mississippi of the North.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 7:59 PM on November 25, 2011


Oh good grief, this idiot idea comes up every decade or two when both sides feel like blaming the other, and it's not always source from downstate. I remember a Chicago secession movement in the state legislature when I was a youngster, and at least one other since then, before this latest one. I figure the idea pre-dates anyone's living memory.

So I searched the Google news archive. And, yup, sure enough in the New York Times of Aug 9, 1925, I see an article titled "CHICAGO'S SECESSION MOVE STIRS ILLINOIS; Cook County's Vote to Withold Taxes Until Representation Is Revised in Accordance With Constitution Brings Bitter Conflict -- Same Situation in Other States".

Oh yeah, the article abstract also says Chicago organized a "tea party". heh.

Personally as a born downstater, though not a current dweller there, I wouldn't live in Chicago if you gave me a stipend to do so, and a couple comments here remind me of part of the reason why.
posted by mdevore at 8:03 PM on November 25, 2011 [2 favorites]


Illinois doesn't want Chicago anymore? As a Wisconsinite, I call dibs.

I don't know if that would go over with Chicago, but I have seen a lot of Packers paraphernalia around Rockford. Maybe that'll be up for grabs!
posted by ignignokt at 8:09 PM on November 25, 2011


I'm from Decatur, and even though I don't totally agree with these Reps Tea Partyesque reasoning it's hard to not look at the crumbling infrastructure and schools downstate and not point a finger at Chicago. It's all shiny and bright on the horizon and the suburbanites in their North Face uniforms strut around after watching a Jersey Shore marathon not realizing how good they have it with their high school music/sports programs and indoor pools. I went to Stephen Decatur before it closed and we couldnt even afford a football team one year and they were about to get rid of the band, but they just closed the school down entirely and merged it with the other where there are now over 40 occupants a class, and that's not including the rats and cockroaches. Chicago really is a microcosm and it doesn't help when Chicago elitists paint people downstate as bumpkins, which is actually kind of true, but I think the insulting part is that they think something is wrong with you if you don't worship Chicago and it's perfect people for all their glory. The Indiana bit is actually a good point, mainly that a state doesn't necessarily need a city to function. The whole Chicago attitude of "You'd be nothing without us" is part of why downstate Illinois has this sentiment in the first place, and the Jersey Shore loving mouthbreathers from Napperville etc coming to U of I and shitting all over everything and everyone doesn't help matter either.
posted by TheCoyote23 at 9:14 PM on November 25, 2011 [3 favorites]


This silliness shows up in Colorado all the time, too. Usually when figuring out who gets the water.
posted by underflow at 9:15 PM on November 25, 2011


One of the things that makes Illinois so damn cool is the incredible breadth of culture and community across the whole state. You can't paint it as just "Chicago" and "Not Chicago".
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 10:13 PM on November 25, 2011 [1 favorite]


Of course, Naperville being in both DuPage and Will Counties, would still be a part of Original Illinois. There aren't many public schools within Chicago proper that aren't suffering the same fate as a lot of the downstate schools. I suppose your critique is still valid for a lot of the North Shore school districts, but Chicago itself isn't some money-having paradise, relative to the rest of the state. It's all in the tax-base, in which all cities are suffering.

Born and raised in Peoria, lived and worked in Chicago (proper), and said nuts to the whole thing and fled to the West Coast.
posted by hwyengr at 11:42 PM on November 25, 2011


How many times can a political party jump the shark before it collapses under the weight of it's own noxious bullshit.

Ho hum...
posted by Skygazer at 12:58 AM on November 26, 2011


You guys are missing the real dilemma here for this new state. Professional sports.
posted by Brocktoon at 12:59 AM on November 26, 2011


[tongue in cheek] Why are you all so cross? You founded your entire country on secession because you wanted to pay less tax. If you suddenly think this is wrong, you're welcome to petition the Queen to see if we'll have you back. [/tongue in cheek]
posted by alasdair at 1:26 AM on November 26, 2011


Regardless of the worthwhile differences that have been pointed out exist between CHicago and downstate, the only reasons given for wanting to succeed were: The lame-duck Democrats went ahead and passed a 67 percent income tax increased, along with civil unions and the abolition of the death penalty in Illinois.

And, sorry but these guys deserve all the abuse heaped on them..
posted by Skygazer at 1:43 AM on November 26, 2011 [3 favorites]


Upstate NY (west of Albany) has been making noise about splitting from the rest of the state for decades. Nothing has happened so far and I don't think it ever will. It's a good campaign slogan, though.
posted by tommasz at 5:03 AM on November 26, 2011 [1 favorite]


If you suddenly think this is wrong, you're welcome to petition the Queen to see if we'll have you back
Don't even joke about that shit.



Attenborough's Deadliest Animals
Dr Who in 3D!!
Communi... Oh, hang on
posted by fullerine at 5:38 AM on November 26, 2011


If Chicago is broken off from the rest of Illinois, I'd like Milwaukee to break off from Wisconsin and join Chicago.
posted by drezdn at 6:34 AM on November 26, 2011 [4 favorites]


You founded your entire country on secession because you wanted to pay less tax.

IIRC, too, part of the reason taxes had went up was to pay for the French and Indian War.
posted by drezdn at 6:38 AM on November 26, 2011 [1 favorite]


Having lived in downstate Illinois and now Western Massachusetts, I understand the feeling here. It is frustrating to see tax money go towards gold-plating the fire hydrants of some suburb before helping light the streets of a large city further away. Illinois at least has its capital situated away from Chicago so that lawmakers have to see something other than their hometown from time to time. Western Mass has no such luck.
posted by Legomancer at 7:01 AM on November 26, 2011


These are stupid people suggesting something stupid, and they deserve to be ridiculed. Lots of the comments here are stereotypes and generalizations, yes, but jeez, the whole "that's my sister you're talking about!" routine is ridiculous. I grew up in New Jersey, one of the most mocked states in the union. I don't whine "BUT MY FAMILY IS THERE AND YOU'RE MEEEEAAAAAN" every time someone makes a garbage dump/Mafia/Jersey Shore joke.

There are always going to be city-mouse and country-mouse divides about pretty much everything, but I doubt any commenter here thinks that *every single person who lives in downstate Illinois* is a city-hating meth-head homophobe.

Sheesh.
posted by tzikeh at 8:59 AM on November 26, 2011 [10 favorites]


If Chicago is broken off from the rest of Illinois, I'd like Milwaukee to break off from Wisconsin and join Chicago.

WTF I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU SAID THIS I AM NEVER SPEAKING TO YOU AGAIN YOU TRAITOR
posted by desjardins at 9:52 AM on November 26, 2011 [1 favorite]


Ignorant jackasses in upstate NY (which I live in the middle of) frequently bitch and moan like this about the horrible burden NYC places on them. In general, they don't have the first clue about how state finances actually work and are just pandering to the redneck vote.
posted by aught at 10:12 AM on November 26, 2011


I am trying to understand those of you in sympathy with the rural divide scenarios - is it understood that it's mostly an emotional thing?

This comes up here in NYC/NY state every so often, and the argument of "our infrastructure is in shambles" seems so head scratching. Without the tax base of the cities, these places would be in much worse shape (see rust belt states for what happens to rural areas without cities to depend on)

My understanding is that the high density areas almost always fund the low density areas. Is there a contradicting example out there? (genuinely curious)
posted by PissOnYourParade at 10:33 AM on November 26, 2011


Naperville is not Chicago.
posted by 10thmuse at 11:23 AM on November 26, 2011 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I'm a little bit confused at all the references to gold-plated suburbia. Cook County certainly has some wealthy suburbs (Kenilworth, Winnetka, Schaumburg, Palatine) but Lake and DuPage also have a ton (the aforementioned Naperville, Highland Park, Deerfield, Lake Forest, Wheaton, Downers Grove, the Fox River Valley burbs, etc), which would be part of The Real Illinois (r) according to this proposal.

I actually find it interesting that more of this discussion hasn't centered around the way it would subdivide up the Chicago metropolitan area. Cook County does not contain the Chicagoland metropolitan area by any means.

And jonmc, I understand it's not fun to think your relatives are being called clowns (although, as insults go, this really isn't that bad), but frankly, ribbing a region doesn't mean you're personally attacking the people from that area.

I'm from the Los Angeles area, and if I believed all the crap that's said about people from LA, I should be some vacuous, superficial, celebrity-obsessed, Botox-abusing, left-wing loonie. (Just talk to Bay Area denizens! They all have but the fondest regard for southern California ;) ...)
posted by andrewesque at 12:50 PM on November 26, 2011


ribbing a region doesn't mean you're personally attacking the people from that area.

I'm curious -- what does it mean, then?
posted by hippybear at 12:57 PM on November 26, 2011


hwyengr is right, TheCoyote23. Look at the link in Max Power's comment. There's a reason why Mitchell and Brown specified "Cook County" rather than "Chicagoland" or the Chicago MSA. If you included the collar counties, then you'd still have the snotty suburbanites that you resent, and if you didn't, then you'd be facing an even bigger deficit than a solo Cook County would. (Not to mention that you'd still have the huge debt that Illinois has amassed.)

In terms of the attitudes of Chicagoans or Chicagolanders in general: please, please don't judge three million plus people on the basis of a few overprivileged undergraduates at the U of I. To paraphrase the old saying about Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, the average Chicagoan doesn't spend a minute thinking about downstate for every hour that the average downstater spends thinking about Chicago; they've got their own stuff to worry about, and only think about it when a downstate politician breaks through the background noise of the media. (And not only in the negative sense; Chicagoans helped vote Pat Quinn and Dick Durbin, both downstaters, into office.)

On the other hand, downstate political pundits just freakin' love to demonize Chicago; my mailbox fills up before every election with attack flyers talking up one candidate or another's (usually the Democrats) ties to "Chicago interests", and you always hear about how bad Rod Blagojevich is making the whole state look on blogs and public radio talk shows; not so much on George Ryan, from Kankakee, who is still in federal prison. As someone who has family and friendship ties in both places, I wish they'd just fuckin' drop it already; it's a stupid, pander-to-the-bottom-of-the-barrel dick move, and they're not serving the people that they claim to represent when they alienate the people that they should be trying to work with to fix our broken state.
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:28 PM on November 26, 2011 [1 favorite]


Just to be clear, that should be "If you included the collar counties in non-Chicago Illinois".
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:31 PM on November 26, 2011


So long Chicags, it's been real.

Love,
The backwater, cornconomy, shotgun-polishing creators of the internet - Champaign-Urbana
posted by obscurator at 2:10 PM on November 26, 2011 [1 favorite]


obscurator: The backwater, cornconomy, shotgun-polishing creators of the internet - Champaign-Urbana

1) A World Wide Web GUI interface is not The Internet. The Internet existed well before the WWW, and the WWW existed well before Mosaic.

2) Those backwater, cornconomy, shotgun-polishing creators of a World Wide Web GUI interface's salaries were paid by my state and federal tax dollars.

So long, ignorant cheap shots, it's been real.
posted by tzikeh at 2:35 PM on November 26, 2011 [3 favorites]


(and yes, I know that "GUI interface" is a redundant statement. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to Walgreens, where I will enter my PIN number in the ATM machine in order to buy delicious, delicious cake.)
posted by tzikeh at 2:36 PM on November 26, 2011


Ahhh, the ol' downstate fantasy that somehow they are generating the state's revenues, when upstate is home to one of the nation's largest and economically important cities.

Laughable.
posted by Ironmouth at 2:38 PM on November 26, 2011 [1 favorite]


hippybear, I think you can good-naturedly rib a region without meaning to personally attack every person in the region. It all depends on the tone and the intention. I really don't think most people who make fun of New Jersey as the "armpits of America" or makes fun of Jersey shore types thinks that literally every person they have met from New Jersey is Guido-esque in the worst way or literally dwells in the most awful atmosphere in America.

It's like I said -- I'm from an area that people tend to have strong opinions about (ever heard of "La La Land?" It's not Louisiana), and just because I've met people who criticize Angelenos for being vacuous and superficial do I rise up in rage because I think they are personally calling my mother a superficial head. I live in Chicago now. If I took this attitude, I would have exploded a long time ago by reading all the absurd things about northern Illinois in this thread.
posted by andrewesque at 2:46 PM on November 26, 2011


Yeah, I think we're going to have to respectfully disagree about this.

Any time you make a blanket statement about a group of people, whether based on the region they're from or the race they're a part of or the sexual orientation they were born with, you're making a bigoted statement which is an attack on everyone which is part of the group you're generalizing.

It's just one of those things. Either you feel making such statements are okay, or you don't. If someone does feel making such statements is okay, then they need to own their own bigotry and not try to back out of it when they're confronted with their stereotyping by one of the people who is part of that group.

"Oh, well, I meant the region in general, not the specific people who live there" doesn't fly with me any more than "oh, well, I meant the Jews in general, not the specific Jewish people I know".

The true and correct path is to not make such statements in general and to come to a more mature way of expressing one's concerns and interests. To do otherwise is lazy and bigoted and deserves to be called out as such.
posted by hippybear at 2:55 PM on November 26, 2011 [2 favorites]


Does this mean the CTA will finally get decent funding?
posted by kmz at 4:23 PM on November 26, 2011


As a Wisconsinite, I call FIBs!

As much as I wanted to favorite that, I just can't click the plus for a damned cheesehead.
posted by Ghidorah at 6:11 PM on November 26, 2011 [1 favorite]


Metafilter: Your mother's a...

As a Wisconsinite, I call FIBs!


That's been upgraded to FISH

Somewhere, John Elroy Sanford, raised on the South Side of Chicago, is thinking we should all go wash our ass right now.

Let's bring back the love.
posted by timsteil at 6:56 PM on November 26, 2011 [1 favorite]


I'm in a mixed marriage: I'm a cheesehead and he's a FIB. I rip on Illinoisans all the time, hippybear. Do you really think I'm insulting my own in-laws? It's no different than teasing your sister. I don't ACTUALLY think all people from Chicago are rude, arrogant, and terrible drivers, even though it's true.
posted by desjardins at 9:37 PM on November 26, 2011 [1 favorite]


hippybear, I understand your point. I still think it's not realistic to say that there's anybody out there who completely refrains from making blanket statements about any group of people out there, and if this is "bigotry," then, well, I'm lazy and a bigot.

jonmc, there are a lot of things I'd be upset that you called my mom, but this still isn't one of them. She's a pretty funny gal, if you ask me. Calm down.
posted by andrewesque at 10:01 PM on November 26, 2011


If this gets Cook County out of that whole State of Illinois unfunded pensions debacle, I'm all for it!
posted by davismbagpiper at 12:24 PM on November 27, 2011


> it's hard to not look at the crumbling infrastructure and schools downstate and not point a finger at Chicago

Wait, what? I live near two middle schools and a high school here in the city. They look like crumbling pieces of shit and the HS is ridden with gang violence. The high school does not have a football team nor an indoor pool (unlike your school previous to your financial crisis). I'm not sure why people think CPS is some shining beacon of public ed. I think we're at a 50% drop out rate right now. If kids come into my life, they're not going to CPS.

Chicago is like Israel to downstate politicians as Israel is to middle east politics. Just keep blaming that Chicago strawman and whatever you do don't question the DINOs you keep voting in. As far as insulting these downstates types, well, they keep voting these guys in and as such should be prepared for criticism, the same way I'm criticized for the politicians and policies I support. Is it now uncivil and impossible to criticize anything? Should I just smile and nod at every Teaparty propaganda piece and political fan service? This whole "but my uncle lives downstate" is ridiculous. Imagine if we had this overly politically correct code during the Bush years. Sheez, lets relax.

The uberman level of self-control I have at which I let things slide from ignorant rural and suburban types about my city is difficult to achieve but if I snapped everytime I heard some casual racism or a Christian's take on homosexuality and abortion, I would just snap. I should be allowed to correct and disagree with them once in a while, especially when they've upped the ante from everyday conservative bullshit to passing secession bills Rick Perry-style. Please downstate DINOs stop looking up to the Rick Perry's and Rush Limbaughs of the world. Yeah, it'll get you votes but it also makes you look like a piece of shit.

/someone with too many downstate relatives
posted by damn dirty ape at 8:31 PM on November 27, 2011


Ghidorah: "As a Wisconsinite, I call FIBs!

As much as I wanted to favorite that, I just can't click the plus for a damned cheesehead.
"

Well I'll click your fibbing plus anyway.
posted by symbioid at 11:08 PM on November 27, 2011


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