Declawing Cats Criminalized in Israel
December 8, 2011 12:27 PM Subscribe
"On November 28th Israel’s legislature unanimously passed a bill that outlaws the declawing of cats, except for certain medical reasons, making it a crime punishable by up to one year in prison and a fine of about $20,000."
Reaction has been overwhelmingly positive.
Reaction has been overwhelmingly positive.
If we can tie in circumcision this would make a lovely trifecta.
posted by echo target at 12:30 PM on December 8, 2011 [40 favorites]
posted by echo target at 12:30 PM on December 8, 2011 [40 favorites]
What's Lady Gaga's opinion about all of this?
posted by randomination at 12:31 PM on December 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by randomination at 12:31 PM on December 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
Sarah Palin declaws everything she kills.
There we go, the thread will now go supercritical.
posted by mccarty.tim at 12:31 PM on December 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
There we go, the thread will now go supercritical.
posted by mccarty.tim at 12:31 PM on December 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
She strikes me as pro-claw.
posted by The Whelk at 12:32 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 12:32 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
As a child I had always assumed that cats were just declawed as a matter of fact, at least the front claws. As I got older, I discovered a person or two who refused to have their cat declawed. "Wow, they must love their cat!" I thought.
Then I got to MetaFilter and got the knowledge done on me. Props to Israel for this.
Israel AND cat declawing? Are you ISANE?
posted by charred husk at 12:32 PM on December 8, 2011 [3 favorites]
Then I got to MetaFilter and got the knowledge done on me. Props to Israel for this.
Israel AND cat declawing? Are you ISANE?
posted by charred husk at 12:32 PM on December 8, 2011 [3 favorites]
I bet everyone who drafted, introduced, and voted for that bill was circumcised.
A conspiracy.
posted by griphus at 12:32 PM on December 8, 2011 [20 favorites]
A conspiracy.
posted by griphus at 12:32 PM on December 8, 2011 [20 favorites]
Chopping off their nuts? Still A-OK.
posted by Rock Steady at 12:32 PM on December 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Rock Steady at 12:32 PM on December 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
Man, this is the sort of thread that will have many people unsure how to feel about things.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:33 PM on December 8, 2011 [7 favorites]
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:33 PM on December 8, 2011 [7 favorites]
they're kinda mehw about it.
posted by UbuRoivas at 12:34 PM on December 8, 2011 [15 favorites]
posted by UbuRoivas at 12:34 PM on December 8, 2011 [15 favorites]
Such a humane and progressive bunch, those Israelis! Good on them.
posted by Meatbomb at 12:34 PM on December 8, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by Meatbomb at 12:34 PM on December 8, 2011 [4 favorites]
Ever walked into a bar, get a beer, sit down and then realize that you're in a place where if you say the wrong thing, the whole place will erupt in a huge fight? So you just sit in silence, not moving too much, and hoping that your silence will not be interpreted as some sort of hostile gesture. Yeah well, this thread...
posted by Kattullus at 12:35 PM on December 8, 2011 [26 favorites]
posted by Kattullus at 12:35 PM on December 8, 2011 [26 favorites]
Well, in the whole cars vs. bikes thing I propose a two street solution.
posted by cjorgensen at 12:42 PM on December 8, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by cjorgensen at 12:42 PM on December 8, 2011 [5 favorites]
...and that's why you can always trust a policeman to do the right thing.
posted by shakespeherian at 12:44 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by shakespeherian at 12:44 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
I bet everyone who drafted, introduced, and voted for that bill was circumcised.
well. the MEN, at least.
posted by elizardbits at 12:45 PM on December 8, 2011 [13 favorites]
well. the MEN, at least.
posted by elizardbits at 12:45 PM on December 8, 2011 [13 favorites]
Americans in general more often than in many other nations declaw their cats. I have two cats (in America). Since they are indoor cats, they are declawed. Were they to be cats that were sometimes outdoors, they would need their claws.
Circumcision is not required of all citizens by law and Christians in Israel can decide on this issue.
Is it cruel to leave cats as they are or is more cruel to declaw them?
Customs and laws vary from country to country. We do not eat dog in this country but in some nations they do. Israel, governed or in fact largely controlled by the Orthodox does not require all to eat kosher food.
Circumcision is regarded as a symbol of Jewishness and Muslim belief. While you may think it cruel and therefore something to be outlawed, would you ask the state to ban it though no significant science shows it to be cruel and unusual or inhumane? Israel and most of Europe
has outlawed execution but the US has not...again, customs and laws do differ, and we can but point to those we prefer and those we dislike.
posted by Postroad at 12:48 PM on December 8, 2011 [4 favorites]
Circumcision is not required of all citizens by law and Christians in Israel can decide on this issue.
Is it cruel to leave cats as they are or is more cruel to declaw them?
Customs and laws vary from country to country. We do not eat dog in this country but in some nations they do. Israel, governed or in fact largely controlled by the Orthodox does not require all to eat kosher food.
Circumcision is regarded as a symbol of Jewishness and Muslim belief. While you may think it cruel and therefore something to be outlawed, would you ask the state to ban it though no significant science shows it to be cruel and unusual or inhumane? Israel and most of Europe
has outlawed execution but the US has not...again, customs and laws do differ, and we can but point to those we prefer and those we dislike.
posted by Postroad at 12:48 PM on December 8, 2011 [4 favorites]
Huh. I would have expected this from the Persians.
posted by 2bucksplus at 12:48 PM on December 8, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by 2bucksplus at 12:48 PM on December 8, 2011 [4 favorites]
האריסטוקרטים
posted by gauche at 12:49 PM on December 8, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by gauche at 12:49 PM on December 8, 2011 [6 favorites]
Was wondering if this applies to cats in the Occupied Territories.
posted by Ironmouth at 12:50 PM on December 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Ironmouth at 12:50 PM on December 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
If we can tie in circumcision this would make a lovely trifecta.
The Aristocats!
posted by Esteemed Offendi at 12:52 PM on December 8, 2011 [4 favorites]
The Aristocats!
posted by Esteemed Offendi at 12:52 PM on December 8, 2011 [4 favorites]
Offendi - you were beaten by gauche.
posted by wittgenstein at 12:54 PM on December 8, 2011
posted by wittgenstein at 12:54 PM on December 8, 2011
Is there any reason why pets get their gonads completely removed instead of just having their tubes snipped?
posted by Ayn Rand and God at 12:55 PM on December 8, 2011
posted by Ayn Rand and God at 12:55 PM on December 8, 2011
Is there any reason why pets get their gonads completely removed instead of just having their tubes snipped?
Because gonads in male pet animals are associated with aggressive and/or territorial behavior, and in female pat animals with menstruation? And in both sexes, with anxiety/sadness/frustration of their drive to engage in procreative behavior is unfulfilled? Removal of the gonads solves all these problems.
posted by slkinsey at 12:59 PM on December 8, 2011 [4 favorites]
Because gonads in male pet animals are associated with aggressive and/or territorial behavior, and in female pat animals with menstruation? And in both sexes, with anxiety/sadness/frustration of their drive to engage in procreative behavior is unfulfilled? Removal of the gonads solves all these problems.
posted by slkinsey at 12:59 PM on December 8, 2011 [4 favorites]
Huh. I would have expected this from the Persians.
No way, have you seen what a cat can do to a Persian rug?
posted by smackfu at 1:02 PM on December 8, 2011
No way, have you seen what a cat can do to a Persian rug?
posted by smackfu at 1:02 PM on December 8, 2011
Oh, man. Declawing cats is on my actual list of toxic things you never, never, never discuss on the internet. But then this happens:
Yet another example of legislation bought and paid for by big drapes.
And I am willing to make an exception.
posted by Linda_Holmes at 1:11 PM on December 8, 2011 [7 favorites]
Yet another example of legislation bought and paid for by big drapes.
And I am willing to make an exception.
posted by Linda_Holmes at 1:11 PM on December 8, 2011 [7 favorites]
Is there any reason why pets get their gonads completely removed instead of just having their tubes snipped?
I imagine it's a lot simpler to cut them off/out entirely than do a delicate operation. Also, oblig AskMe: Do animals menstruate? (Most don't.)
The slightly-insane somewhat-feral cat who adopted us a couple of years ago became the nicest, silliest, laziest, most lap-happy cat after he got his nuts cut off. Also: no more spraying!
posted by epersonae at 1:12 PM on December 8, 2011
I imagine it's a lot simpler to cut them off/out entirely than do a delicate operation. Also, oblig AskMe: Do animals menstruate? (Most don't.)
The slightly-insane somewhat-feral cat who adopted us a couple of years ago became the nicest, silliest, laziest, most lap-happy cat after he got his nuts cut off. Also: no more spraying!
posted by epersonae at 1:12 PM on December 8, 2011
The US is one of the few advanced countries where declawing of cats is legal. Figures.
(Because of the way that cats' claws grow, the only way to declaw them is to amputate the last phalanx of their toes. Not cool, in my book.)
posted by Benny Andajetz at 1:20 PM on December 8, 2011 [3 favorites]
(Because of the way that cats' claws grow, the only way to declaw them is to amputate the last phalanx of their toes. Not cool, in my book.)
posted by Benny Andajetz at 1:20 PM on December 8, 2011 [3 favorites]
Americans in general more often than in many other nations declaw their cats.
Whatever happened to the right to bear claws? (No, not that kind of bear.)
posted by binturong at 1:20 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
Whatever happened to the right to bear claws? (No, not that kind of bear.)
posted by binturong at 1:20 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
I don't care what Cory Doctorow and Violet Blue think about declawing and circumcising obese cats. It's the cat's own damn fault for eating too much. Besides, if they only followed a proper cat powerlifting schedule with some shovelglove thrown in, they wouldn't have that problem. That's what the Israeli settlers do for their cats in the West Bank, no problems whatsoever. I should know, my mother's a doctor.
posted by benzenedream at 1:22 PM on December 8, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by benzenedream at 1:22 PM on December 8, 2011 [5 favorites]
From what I gather declawing is very rare outside the US. In much of Europe it's illegal; here in the UK it's considered unacceptable and inhumane and many vets would refuse to do it. I've never met a declawed cat. Although you can get dinky rubber claw guards for your cat.
posted by rhymer at 1:22 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by rhymer at 1:22 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
Now if we can get certain Asian cultures to stop eating them, cats will only have each other's nasty territorial habits left to defend against! But of course, we can cut their genitals off to prevent them, and we can continue overfishing the oceans to feed them until they explode from pure human love!
posted by gorgor_balabala at 1:25 PM on December 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by gorgor_balabala at 1:25 PM on December 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
In much of Europe it's illegal; here in the UK it's considered unacceptable and inhumane and many vets would refuse to do it.
Declawing has been illegal in the UK since 2006.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 1:25 PM on December 8, 2011
Declawing has been illegal in the UK since 2006.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 1:25 PM on December 8, 2011
Wait, what Asian cultures eat cats? As small predators, wouldn't they be insanely gamey anyway?
posted by DoctorFedora at 1:27 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by DoctorFedora at 1:27 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
It wasn't until fairly recently that I discovered that people were talking about something other than a simple trim when they said "declawing". None of the cats in my family have ever been declawed, and I find it surprising that it seems to be so common.
posted by brundlefly at 1:30 PM on December 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by brundlefly at 1:30 PM on December 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
DoctorFedora: "Wait, what Asian cultures eat cats? As small predators, wouldn't they be insanely gamey anyway?"
Interestingly enough:
posted by zarq at 1:30 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
Interestingly enough:
With the increase of cats as pets in China, opposition towards the traditional use of cats for food has grown. In June 2006, approximately 40 activists stormed the Fangji Cat Meatball Restaurant, a restaurant specializing in cat meat in Shenzhen. They managed to force the restaurant to shut down and discontinue selling of cat meat. Those changes began about two years after the formation of the Chinese Companion Animal Protection Network, a networking project of Chinese Animal Protection Network. Expanded to more than 40 member societies, CCAPN in January 2006 began organizing well-publicized protests against dog and cat eating, starting in Guangzhou, following up in more than ten other cities "with very optimal [sic] response from public." In 2008, a series of incidents were broadcast by the media on the increased consumption of cat and dog meat in Guangdong areas.
posted by zarq at 1:30 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
So, I hope this doesn't start a maelstrom of internet rage... I am honestly just curious how people respond to this.
Two years ago my mom adopted two very young kittens from some guy in Oklahoma who was just giving them away. My mom is not very sentimental but she's rather moderate for Oklahoma and works with animals professionally so I was surprised when she had them declawed as soon as they were old enough for the operation.
In general, I am not interested in animals that don't go "woof" and tend to keep out of others' business, but I've heard from the internet that de-clawing was cruel so I asked my mom if she ever heard that and what she thought. Her response was something along the lines
Of course, the more popular legislation like this becomes, over the long term more people will be aware of the risks and pain associated with de-clawing. I guess its controversies like this that just make me think: jeez, people are so complex, its so interesting.
posted by midmarch snowman at 1:34 PM on December 8, 2011
Two years ago my mom adopted two very young kittens from some guy in Oklahoma who was just giving them away. My mom is not very sentimental but she's rather moderate for Oklahoma and works with animals professionally so I was surprised when she had them declawed as soon as they were old enough for the operation.
In general, I am not interested in animals that don't go "woof" and tend to keep out of others' business, but I've heard from the internet that de-clawing was cruel so I asked my mom if she ever heard that and what she thought. Her response was something along the lines
"Well, I got a dozen recommendations for the same Vet who's pretty much never had issues with infection or had to do a revision for chronic pain issues. and had it done early enough that they'd grow up without claws instead of taking away something they were used to. I bought special litter for sensitive paws and gave them pain medication for a few weeks after the operation. In this town hundreds of stray cats get put to sleep or eaten by coyotes. I live alone so in my house the cats will never have to worry about cruelty from an toddler, aggressive dogs, neglect or starvation. I figure if they have to endure this to live a pretty comfortable life, it's still better than countless other options"I guess it's probably a choice I wouldn't make, but I didn't feel comfortable arguing with her. I guess her opinion basically boils down to; if you're going to say 'don't adopt a cat if you have to declaw it' then that just means more cats in the part of the country will get abandoned and eaten.
Of course, the more popular legislation like this becomes, over the long term more people will be aware of the risks and pain associated with de-clawing. I guess its controversies like this that just make me think: jeez, people are so complex, its so interesting.
posted by midmarch snowman at 1:34 PM on December 8, 2011
What I want is for vets to lose their licenses if they declaw a cat but do not also sterilise it. I see cats who are not neutered but are declawed all over, and I think it's so amazingly unethical of the vets to agree to do that.
posted by jeather at 1:47 PM on December 8, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by jeather at 1:47 PM on December 8, 2011 [5 favorites]
True story: One of my cats partially declawed himself. One day I noticed one of his claws pointing at a strange angle, and it was clearly paining him.
A week later he was chewing at it, jumped on my lap, and spat out a bloodied claw+nub right on my shirt. It's never grown back, but he doesn't appear to be in pain.
To this day, I don't allow him on the internets, where people might shun him for his pro-declaw stance.
Also, I wouldn't hesitate to eat cat or dog, and don't understand why any meat eater would.
posted by coolguymichael at 1:48 PM on December 8, 2011 [4 favorites]
A week later he was chewing at it, jumped on my lap, and spat out a bloodied claw+nub right on my shirt. It's never grown back, but he doesn't appear to be in pain.
To this day, I don't allow him on the internets, where people might shun him for his pro-declaw stance.
Also, I wouldn't hesitate to eat cat or dog, and don't understand why any meat eater would.
posted by coolguymichael at 1:48 PM on December 8, 2011 [4 favorites]
midmarch snowman: " I guess it's probably a choice I wouldn't make, but I didn't feel comfortable arguing with her. I guess her opinion basically boils down to; if you're going to say 'don't adopt a cat if you have to declaw it' then that just means more cats in the part of the country will get abandoned and eaten. "
A number of years ago, one of my cats managed to shove and break through what I thought was a sturdy window screen, and escape the house. She was 7 years old at the time, and not declawed. I came home to find her gone, the screen hanging open and her brother sitting on the windowsill, meowing plaintively out into the night.
I was living in a ground floor apartment in an urban area of Queens, one of NYC's boroughs. There was a high school baseball field half a block away, a cemetery three blocks away and a golf course five blocks away. And a six lane highway two blocks away. I freaked. This was a cat that had never roamed the great outdoors. She'd had minimal interactions with other animals (just her brother and our dog.) I was convinced she had been run over or worse.
I asked neighbors to help me search. Friends dropped what they were doing and came over to help. And it took hours to find her. She was hiding, terrified, shaking, scratched and bloody, in the little space on top of a car's front wheel three blocks away. We figured out later that she'd been in a fight with my neighbor's vicious pit bull and another neighbor's cat -- from wounds they had received. She had apparently taken a deep swipe at the pit bull's nose. And survived.
I don't declaw cats because I think it's inhumane. But from a practicality standpoint, you also never know what might happen. All things considered it's never a good idea to take away an animal's means of defense.
posted by zarq at 1:51 PM on December 8, 2011 [22 favorites]
A number of years ago, one of my cats managed to shove and break through what I thought was a sturdy window screen, and escape the house. She was 7 years old at the time, and not declawed. I came home to find her gone, the screen hanging open and her brother sitting on the windowsill, meowing plaintively out into the night.
I was living in a ground floor apartment in an urban area of Queens, one of NYC's boroughs. There was a high school baseball field half a block away, a cemetery three blocks away and a golf course five blocks away. And a six lane highway two blocks away. I freaked. This was a cat that had never roamed the great outdoors. She'd had minimal interactions with other animals (just her brother and our dog.) I was convinced she had been run over or worse.
I asked neighbors to help me search. Friends dropped what they were doing and came over to help. And it took hours to find her. She was hiding, terrified, shaking, scratched and bloody, in the little space on top of a car's front wheel three blocks away. We figured out later that she'd been in a fight with my neighbor's vicious pit bull and another neighbor's cat -- from wounds they had received. She had apparently taken a deep swipe at the pit bull's nose. And survived.
I don't declaw cats because I think it's inhumane. But from a practicality standpoint, you also never know what might happen. All things considered it's never a good idea to take away an animal's means of defense.
posted by zarq at 1:51 PM on December 8, 2011 [22 favorites]
Good.
Only uncivilised countries permit this vileness.
posted by Decani at 2:24 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
Only uncivilised countries permit this vileness.
posted by Decani at 2:24 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
>declawing
>Israel
>circumcision
>Lady Gaga
>Sarah Palin
>conspiracy
I have the weirdest boner right now.
posted by Phssthpok at 2:26 PM on December 8, 2011 [14 favorites]
>Israel
>circumcision
>Lady Gaga
>Sarah Palin
>conspiracy
I have the weirdest boner right now.
posted by Phssthpok at 2:26 PM on December 8, 2011 [14 favorites]
Well, what do you know - the bill itself was written in Comic Sans.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 2:37 PM on December 8, 2011 [21 favorites]
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 2:37 PM on December 8, 2011 [21 favorites]
Marisa Stole the Precious Thing, you beautiful, beautiful bastard.
Women should all try to be prettier.
posted by IAmBroom at 2:57 PM on December 8, 2011
Women should all try to be prettier.
posted by IAmBroom at 2:57 PM on December 8, 2011
Can Israelis still dock their puppies' tails?
And how does MeFi feel about brutal tail amputation without anaesthesia?
posted by phliar at 2:58 PM on December 8, 2011
And how does MeFi feel about brutal tail amputation without anaesthesia?
posted by phliar at 2:58 PM on December 8, 2011
by a vegan.
posted by elizardbits at 2:58 PM on December 8, 2011
posted by elizardbits at 2:58 PM on December 8, 2011
But isn't that the beauty of gun ownership in a free society?
posted by shakespeherian at 3:00 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by shakespeherian at 3:00 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
Can Israelis still dock their puppies' tails?
And how does MeFi feel about brutal tail amputation without anaesthesia?
Docking tails is essentially the same thing - an amputation. I am opposed (I have a dog whose breed is docked, but mine isn't), but I can see some circumstances where tail docking and ear cropping might be justified. A doberman, for instance, that was trained as a working protection dog.
The difference being in the case of a working dog, the "modifications" make them safer and more able to protect themselves. Declawing does the opposite.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 3:18 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
And how does MeFi feel about brutal tail amputation without anaesthesia?
Docking tails is essentially the same thing - an amputation. I am opposed (I have a dog whose breed is docked, but mine isn't), but I can see some circumstances where tail docking and ear cropping might be justified. A doberman, for instance, that was trained as a working protection dog.
The difference being in the case of a working dog, the "modifications" make them safer and more able to protect themselves. Declawing does the opposite.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 3:18 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
shakespeherian: "But isn't that the beauty of gun ownership in a free society?"
"The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." ~Ayn Rand
posted by zarq at 3:19 PM on December 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
"The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." ~Ayn Rand
posted by zarq at 3:19 PM on December 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
From what I gather declawing is very rare outside the US. In much of Europe it's illegal; here in the UK it's considered unacceptable and inhumane and many vets would refuse to do it.
Only uncivilised countries permit this vileness.
Every day Canada embarrasses me more.
posted by Stagger Lee at 3:25 PM on December 8, 2011
Only uncivilised countries permit this vileness.
Every day Canada embarrasses me more.
posted by Stagger Lee at 3:25 PM on December 8, 2011
DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER! DANGER!
Ayn Rand quote sighted, approaching the Internet Event Horizon!
posted by Slackermagee at 3:26 PM on December 8, 2011 [6 favorites]
Ayn Rand quote sighted, approaching the Internet Event Horizon!
posted by Slackermagee at 3:26 PM on December 8, 2011 [6 favorites]
Every day Canada embarrasses me more.
But are the Canadians de-clawing cats to protect drapes or to discourage the cat from going toe to toe with a coyote? /jkjk
posted by Slackermagee at 3:27 PM on December 8, 2011
But are the Canadians de-clawing cats to protect drapes or to discourage the cat from going toe to toe with a coyote? /jkjk
posted by Slackermagee at 3:27 PM on December 8, 2011
Is there any reason why pets get their gonads completely removed instead of just having their tubes snipped?
Agression and territorial behavior in males is a big reason. Getting your tubes snipped doesn't stop the production of testosterone.
Also, it's billed a a cancer prevention mechanism. Which is true I guess... you can't get cancer in an organ you no longer have!
posted by sbutler at 3:28 PM on December 8, 2011
Agression and territorial behavior in males is a big reason. Getting your tubes snipped doesn't stop the production of testosterone.
Also, it's billed a a cancer prevention mechanism. Which is true I guess... you can't get cancer in an organ you no longer have!
posted by sbutler at 3:28 PM on December 8, 2011
It is my understanding that there are two methods for declawing- the fingertip-removal method, and the incision-above-nail-bed-then-squeeze-and-tug-with-tweezers method. Apparently, the second way is much less painful/infection prone. (My friend is veterinarian, so this is according to her.)
I have never gotten a cat declawed, though one of my current kitties came to me that way.
I admit, though, that when I had newborns, I considered declawing my aggressively lovey cat, who often gets stuck on things. She would knead my babies and got stuck more than once. (Yes, I trim her nails, but mothers of newborns need to let some things slide now and again.) I was able to train her out of the baby beds, but if I had not been successful with this, I would have had to declaw her.
I don't know that a law like this would result in more abandoned cats, but I think it might, and that gives me pause (paws! ha!).
I'd rather see a law that mandates spaying/neutering.
posted by Leta at 3:32 PM on December 8, 2011
I have never gotten a cat declawed, though one of my current kitties came to me that way.
I admit, though, that when I had newborns, I considered declawing my aggressively lovey cat, who often gets stuck on things. She would knead my babies and got stuck more than once. (Yes, I trim her nails, but mothers of newborns need to let some things slide now and again.) I was able to train her out of the baby beds, but if I had not been successful with this, I would have had to declaw her.
I don't know that a law like this would result in more abandoned cats, but I think it might, and that gives me pause (paws! ha!).
I'd rather see a law that mandates spaying/neutering.
posted by Leta at 3:32 PM on December 8, 2011
If we can tie in circumcision this would make a lovely trifecta.
I never got my cat clawed or spayed simply because I wouldn't want it done to me. Everyone told me what an irresponsible pet owner I was. How cats will live longer and be more healthy yadda yadda ya. I realized I'd heard the same arguments for circumcision.
posted by clarknova at 4:03 PM on December 8, 2011
I never got my cat clawed or spayed simply because I wouldn't want it done to me. Everyone told me what an irresponsible pet owner I was. How cats will live longer and be more healthy yadda yadda ya. I realized I'd heard the same arguments for circumcision.
posted by clarknova at 4:03 PM on December 8, 2011
You know who else wanted cats declawed?
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:17 PM on December 8, 2011
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:17 PM on December 8, 2011
You know, on the one hand I am personally opposed to declawing (and docking tails, and cropping ears, and removing articulated dewclaws), on the other hand, I am not sure I like legislating it in this way. On the gripping hand, if appropriate efforts have been made to train appropriate scratching habits (and proper scratching materials are made available and enticing), and the cat is still destroying things...if declawing will keep the cat in the home versus surrendering it to a shelter or abandoning it...in a case like that, I am not opposed to it if it's done competently by a vet who knows what they're doing and uses proper pain meds.
posted by biscotti at 4:19 PM on December 8, 2011
posted by biscotti at 4:19 PM on December 8, 2011
You know who else wanted cats declawed?
The dog?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:22 PM on December 8, 2011 [7 favorites]
The dog?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:22 PM on December 8, 2011 [7 favorites]
Declawing is wrong because inflicting pain on animals and depriving them from their only defense against predators, for a reason that only suits the comfort of the pet owner is seriously selfish. (Hint: the alternative is to train cats to not use the claws on furniture and provide other toys instead.)
Circumcision is wrong because inflicting pain and permanent mutilation on babies for something they're did not do is wrong. Anyone who argues against this in a culture which predominantly circumcises boys out of habit should seriously scrutinize their biases first. (Hint: the alternative is letting boys choose to be circumcised later if they so choose. The mormons allow Rumspringa after all.)
The state of Israel and the Palestinian authority are engaged in a hundred years war, and nobody dares to remember that after a few dozen years after the start of the last hundred years war in Europe, the parties involved did not really remember who started and went on just to avoid losing face. (Hint: the alternative is to organize football or soccer matches.)
As to the reason why clear-cut truths about the world are drowned on MeFi under sarcasm, I am still left to wonder...
posted by knz at 4:27 PM on December 8, 2011
Circumcision is wrong because inflicting pain and permanent mutilation on babies for something they're did not do is wrong. Anyone who argues against this in a culture which predominantly circumcises boys out of habit should seriously scrutinize their biases first. (Hint: the alternative is letting boys choose to be circumcised later if they so choose. The mormons allow Rumspringa after all.)
The state of Israel and the Palestinian authority are engaged in a hundred years war, and nobody dares to remember that after a few dozen years after the start of the last hundred years war in Europe, the parties involved did not really remember who started and went on just to avoid losing face. (Hint: the alternative is to organize football or soccer matches.)
As to the reason why clear-cut truths about the world are drowned on MeFi under sarcasm, I am still left to wonder...
posted by knz at 4:27 PM on December 8, 2011
Circumcision is wrong because inflicting pain and permanent mutilation on babies for something they're did not do is wrong.
To be fair, circumcising babies for something they did do would be pretty messed up, too.
posted by running order squabble fest at 4:31 PM on December 8, 2011 [15 favorites]
To be fair, circumcising babies for something they did do would be pretty messed up, too.
posted by running order squabble fest at 4:31 PM on December 8, 2011 [15 favorites]
Well at least Israel is doing one thing right.
posted by Liquidwolf at 4:49 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Liquidwolf at 4:49 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
MetaFilter has merely strengthened my resolve to never discuss dicks and / or cats with strangers on the Internet.
posted by Dark Messiah at 4:51 PM on December 8, 2011
posted by Dark Messiah at 4:51 PM on December 8, 2011
MetaFilter has merely strengthened my resolve to never discuss dicks and / or cats with strangers on the Internet.
Or strange cat dicks with anyone.
posted by Bookhouse at 5:00 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
Or strange cat dicks with anyone.
posted by Bookhouse at 5:00 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
MetaFilter has merely strengthened my resolve to never discuss dicks and / or cats with strangers on the Internet.
I find some of the comments about cat dicks a little...
(Remove sunglasses)
...barbed
YEEEEEEEAHHHHHHH!
posted by running order squabble fest at 5:00 PM on December 8, 2011 [12 favorites]
I find some of the comments about cat dicks a little...
(Remove sunglasses)
...barbed
YEEEEEEEAHHHHHHH!
posted by running order squabble fest at 5:00 PM on December 8, 2011 [12 favorites]
My very first cats, as an adult I had declawed, both at the same time, on recommendations from family members. It was the most horrifying thing I've ever seen. They came home with bandages, and they bled through those bandages and they cried. I cried. And I swore I'd never do anything like that again.
My current two beasties submit to a claw trim, front and back, once a week with clippers. It takes five minutes. That's mainly so they don't accidentally snag my clothes when they're in my lap. As for scratching, they have a great cat tree that they adore, and a cardboard scratchy thing.
My sister always has her cats declawed. We just don't talk about it because it makes me sad, and there's nothing I can do about it. Otherwise her cats are insanely pampered and even more cared for than mine (there's someone around all the time to pet and play with them). But I hates it, the declawing. Just that once cured me. I can't stand to see anything I love in that much agony, even temporarily. By contrast, getting snipped hasn't seemed to bother any of my wee furry ones more than a day or so.
posted by thelastcamel at 5:18 PM on December 8, 2011
My current two beasties submit to a claw trim, front and back, once a week with clippers. It takes five minutes. That's mainly so they don't accidentally snag my clothes when they're in my lap. As for scratching, they have a great cat tree that they adore, and a cardboard scratchy thing.
My sister always has her cats declawed. We just don't talk about it because it makes me sad, and there's nothing I can do about it. Otherwise her cats are insanely pampered and even more cared for than mine (there's someone around all the time to pet and play with them). But I hates it, the declawing. Just that once cured me. I can't stand to see anything I love in that much agony, even temporarily. By contrast, getting snipped hasn't seemed to bother any of my wee furry ones more than a day or so.
posted by thelastcamel at 5:18 PM on December 8, 2011
*drives SUV into thread, drinking cocktail with designer ice*
posted by jonmc at 6:10 PM on December 8, 2011
posted by jonmc at 6:10 PM on December 8, 2011
My cat is not declawed. This became a problem when he would constantly scratch my arms.
So I did the only practical thing.
I got my arms amputated.
Don't judge me.
posted by mreleganza at 6:15 PM on December 8, 2011 [3 favorites]
So I did the only practical thing.
I got my arms amputated.
Don't judge me.
posted by mreleganza at 6:15 PM on December 8, 2011 [3 favorites]
Ahh the Emancipation Pro-Clawmation
posted by smithsmith at 6:34 PM on December 8, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by smithsmith at 6:34 PM on December 8, 2011 [3 favorites]
Well, my little buddy is both clawless and ballless.
Claws because of the lease, and balls to prevent behavioural issues and because I couldn't adopt his fuzzy little rescue butt without it.
And, yes, I was circumcised and not happy about it.
posted by Samizdata at 7:03 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
Claws because of the lease, and balls to prevent behavioural issues and because I couldn't adopt his fuzzy little rescue butt without it.
And, yes, I was circumcised and not happy about it.
posted by Samizdata at 7:03 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
Does anyone know if this was a, uh, serious issue for the Israeli government to take up or one of those bones they have to throw a random party to get them into the coalition? (I'm not sure if I would find it hilarious or sad if Israel had a Party Against Cat-Declawing. But if anyone would...)
posted by hoyland at 7:13 PM on December 8, 2011
posted by hoyland at 7:13 PM on December 8, 2011
I just got a new couch which has lead to the great scratch-a-thon of late 2011 as the cats all try to outdo each others worksmanship on the virgin surface. So they are all now wearing delightfully glittery holiday colored Soft Paws. I try to recommend these all the time to people who are considering declawing and can rarely ever persuade anyone to try them...which is baffling! They're pretty easy to apply, last a decently long time, and most importantly, don't harm your cat! Plus they come in RAINBOW COLORS. I honestly don't understand people who say they have no choice except to delaw. Here's a pic of my chubby guy modeling the "snowflake" set. Good times in deed!
Although honestly, I'll probably enjoy the new unshredded couch for a little while then let it go. I have cats because I love cats. They have claws on their toes. They use their toes to scratch things sometimes, but they also use them to run, jump, knead, play and many other things. Amputating them makes these things more painful routinely and extremely painful in cases with complications and arthritis. Which kind of robs them of a part of their inherent "catness". That doesn't seem to me like acting in their best interest. And that's why we have animal welfare laws. So it doesn't seem strange to me that there might be regulations on the procedure. If humane alternatives exist and it's harmful to the animal, it makes sense to suspend the practice. Some people will be upset at first, some people always are. But in countries where it is already banned everyone seems to be doing okay. People still have cats and there's no public outcry to bring back declaws.
posted by troublewithwolves at 7:45 PM on December 8, 2011 [3 favorites]
Although honestly, I'll probably enjoy the new unshredded couch for a little while then let it go. I have cats because I love cats. They have claws on their toes. They use their toes to scratch things sometimes, but they also use them to run, jump, knead, play and many other things. Amputating them makes these things more painful routinely and extremely painful in cases with complications and arthritis. Which kind of robs them of a part of their inherent "catness". That doesn't seem to me like acting in their best interest. And that's why we have animal welfare laws. So it doesn't seem strange to me that there might be regulations on the procedure. If humane alternatives exist and it's harmful to the animal, it makes sense to suspend the practice. Some people will be upset at first, some people always are. But in countries where it is already banned everyone seems to be doing okay. People still have cats and there's no public outcry to bring back declaws.
posted by troublewithwolves at 7:45 PM on December 8, 2011 [3 favorites]
knz: "The mormons allow Rumspringa after all."
Actually, that's the Amish.
posted by deborah at 7:50 PM on December 8, 2011 [5 favorites]
Actually, that's the Amish.
posted by deborah at 7:50 PM on December 8, 2011 [5 favorites]
Arcticcat has his claws, uses them on the scratching post, occasionally the couch - usually the underside so he can scoot on his back on the wood floor and for his catnip fish. No way would I have him declawed, it's cruel and as zarq said, it robs him of his only defences (even if he's an indoor cat).
posted by arcticseal at 9:42 PM on December 8, 2011
posted by arcticseal at 9:42 PM on December 8, 2011
it's cruel and as zarq said, it robs him of his only defences (even if he's an indoor cat).
As with people, an armed cat is a polite cat.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 9:45 PM on December 8, 2011 [4 favorites]
As with people, an armed cat is a polite cat.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 9:45 PM on December 8, 2011 [4 favorites]
Also, I wouldn't hesitate to eat cat or dog, and don't understand why any meat eater would.--coolguymichael
I've heard rumors that some of your neighbors have gone missing.
posted by eye of newt at 10:14 PM on December 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
I've heard rumors that some of your neighbors have gone missing.
posted by eye of newt at 10:14 PM on December 8, 2011 [2 favorites]
Can Israelis still dock their puppies' tails?
I read that as can 'Isreali's still dock their people's tails?' and I went HEEEY THERE!
posted by qinn at 10:50 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
I read that as can 'Isreali's still dock their people's tails?' and I went HEEEY THERE!
posted by qinn at 10:50 PM on December 8, 2011 [1 favorite]
This reminds me of a story about a cook in the Israeli navy. He had a whole lot of things going against him: he was short, he had an accent, and of course he didn't have combat duties per se. So the other sailors used to give him a hard time - they'd mess up his bunk, call him on nonsensical errands, imitate him and so forth. At last he couldn't take it any more and when they were eating dinner he came forward and tearfully exclaimed "It's time to stop this fighting. Where will it end? The hatred, the bullying, the piss in the soup ..."
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:47 AM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:47 AM on December 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Things not to discuss on the internet;
Dicks
Dicks and Cats
Cats
Cats with Strangers
What are we going to talk about then?
(The first thing the Commies did was take away the right to declaw cats, and the dog owners said nothing.)
posted by bongo_x at 8:20 AM on December 9, 2011
Dicks
Dicks and Cats
Cats
Cats with Strangers
What are we going to talk about then?
(The first thing the Commies did was take away the right to declaw cats, and the dog owners said nothing.)
posted by bongo_x at 8:20 AM on December 9, 2011
I never got my cat clawed or spayed simply because I wouldn't want it done to me. Everyone told me what an irresponsible pet owner I was. How cats will live longer and be more healthy yadda yadda ya. I realized I'd heard the same arguments for circumcision.
Circumcision prevents millions of unwanted animals from being abandoned and/or destroyed? I don't get it.
posted by coolguymichael at 8:55 AM on December 9, 2011
Circumcision prevents millions of unwanted animals from being abandoned and/or destroyed? I don't get it.
posted by coolguymichael at 8:55 AM on December 9, 2011
Wait, what Asian cultures eat cats? As small predators, wouldn't they be insanely gamey anyway?
Anecdata: an acquaintaince who grew up in the Philippines once told me that cats were "homeless people food" in Manila. So, while they were eaten, it was protein for the poor who obviously didn't have much choice.
posted by Kurichina at 9:00 AM on December 9, 2011
Anecdata: an acquaintaince who grew up in the Philippines once told me that cats were "homeless people food" in Manila. So, while they were eaten, it was protein for the poor who obviously didn't have much choice.
posted by Kurichina at 9:00 AM on December 9, 2011
Cats with Strangers
A radical but unsuccessful reimagining of Words with Friends.
posted by running order squabble fest at 9:45 AM on December 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
A radical but unsuccessful reimagining of Words with Friends.
posted by running order squabble fest at 9:45 AM on December 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
I grew up with cats, and I never understood declawing cats; why not take out their teeth too? Can't let them get too 'bitey' now can we?
The scratching is part of a cat's nature, and in my opinion, an important part of cat ownership; stopping kitty from scratching on certain things is a way to establish boundaries and reinforce your role in your relationship, and earn kitty's respect, resulting in a nicer kitty. Also, it serves as one of the many things that cat ownership can teach you; Sometimes cats take to lessons, sometimes they don't, and there comes a point after you've yelled at the cat for the hundredth time for clawing your nice leather couch, where you have to realize (often with some amusement) that the "Nice" leather couch you're trying to protect has been pretty well clawed up for months by now, and hey man, that's part of having a cat. Then you realize that in your haste to protect your precious couch you've inadvertantly taught the cat a real effective way of getting your attention, and then comes the humbling moment that you realize that by clawing the couch to make you yell at it, it was teaching you a trick.
That's the sort of companionship a cat is SUPPOSED to offer. If you pre-emptively hobble these beautiful animals because of your precious material goods, or worse, the fear the cat may outsmart you, then you are something of a bully. That, or it might just be that you want a pet, but deep down, you don't really want a cat.
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 12:04 PM on December 11, 2011 [4 favorites]
The scratching is part of a cat's nature, and in my opinion, an important part of cat ownership; stopping kitty from scratching on certain things is a way to establish boundaries and reinforce your role in your relationship, and earn kitty's respect, resulting in a nicer kitty. Also, it serves as one of the many things that cat ownership can teach you; Sometimes cats take to lessons, sometimes they don't, and there comes a point after you've yelled at the cat for the hundredth time for clawing your nice leather couch, where you have to realize (often with some amusement) that the "Nice" leather couch you're trying to protect has been pretty well clawed up for months by now, and hey man, that's part of having a cat. Then you realize that in your haste to protect your precious couch you've inadvertantly taught the cat a real effective way of getting your attention, and then comes the humbling moment that you realize that by clawing the couch to make you yell at it, it was teaching you a trick.
That's the sort of companionship a cat is SUPPOSED to offer. If you pre-emptively hobble these beautiful animals because of your precious material goods, or worse, the fear the cat may outsmart you, then you are something of a bully. That, or it might just be that you want a pet, but deep down, you don't really want a cat.
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 12:04 PM on December 11, 2011 [4 favorites]
My mom's cat is declawed.
So I taught it to box.
Big mistake.
posted by srboisvert at 5:34 AM on December 13, 2011
So I taught it to box.
Big mistake.
posted by srboisvert at 5:34 AM on December 13, 2011
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posted by Keith Talent at 12:29 PM on December 8, 2011 [87 favorites]