It’s vital ’cause our survival could depend on a video going viral
December 13, 2011 9:35 PM Subscribe
In response to ongoing police brutality, particularly aimed at the non-violent Occupy Movement, B. Dolan (w/ Sage Francis, Toki Wright, and Jasiri X) have turned NWA's classic "Fuck The Police" into a call to citizen journalists to stand up and FILM THE POLICE!
These kids today have no idea how hard we worked. If you were on the receiving end of a police baton during the 1968 Democratic Convention you knew, because you were hit repeatedly on the head by a baton.
These kids today have no idea that there is still an ongoing march for Civil Rights. They don't know that there is still an unfathomable inequality and injustice worth fighting against. They don't realize that being comfortable is not as good as being happy, or as righteous as making the world a better place.
posted by twoleftfeet at 10:14 PM on December 13, 2011
These kids today have no idea that there is still an ongoing march for Civil Rights. They don't know that there is still an unfathomable inequality and injustice worth fighting against. They don't realize that being comfortable is not as good as being happy, or as righteous as making the world a better place.
posted by twoleftfeet at 10:14 PM on December 13, 2011
I would encourage everyone to check out your city's copwatch, and to start one up if your city doesn't have one yet.
posted by andoatnp at 10:18 PM on December 13, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by andoatnp at 10:18 PM on December 13, 2011 [3 favorites]
twoleftfeet: "These kids today" in fact make up a large part of the Occupy movement - and many of them have been on the receiving end of police violence. I can't say whether the violence is less pervasive now than it was then, though it wouldn't surprise me, but that's not something we can count on to remain true.
Many of my generation do in fact value making the world a better place over our own personal comfort. Not all, but the 60s were not a golden utopia, either.
posted by spaceman_spiff at 10:18 PM on December 13, 2011 [8 favorites]
Many of my generation do in fact value making the world a better place over our own personal comfort. Not all, but the 60s were not a golden utopia, either.
posted by spaceman_spiff at 10:18 PM on December 13, 2011 [8 favorites]
I was expecting this video to be corny as hell but it seemed pretty good to this white kid's eyes and ears. Thanks for the post.
posted by dixiecupdrinking at 10:21 PM on December 13, 2011
posted by dixiecupdrinking at 10:21 PM on December 13, 2011
This is excellent.
And, holy crap, B. Dolan is a mefite.
posted by eyeballkid at 11:05 PM on December 13, 2011
And, holy crap, B. Dolan is a mefite.
posted by eyeballkid at 11:05 PM on December 13, 2011
The sibling song would be Blue Scholars' "Oscar Grant", with the chorus of:
Shoot the cops, shoot the cops, shoot the cops
Take your cameras out your pockets people
posted by yeloson at 11:58 PM on December 13, 2011 [6 favorites]
Shoot the cops, shoot the cops, shoot the cops
Take your cameras out your pockets people
posted by yeloson at 11:58 PM on December 13, 2011 [6 favorites]
That was oh so much better than I expected.
posted by hypersloth at 12:06 AM on December 14, 2011
posted by hypersloth at 12:06 AM on December 14, 2011
I was going to mention the Blue Scholars' song but yeloson beat me to it. Good stuff.
posted by litlnemo at 12:51 AM on December 14, 2011
posted by litlnemo at 12:51 AM on December 14, 2011
A new laser designed to temporarily blind people is going to be trialled by police.
(See also : U.N. Protocol on Blinding Laser Weapons)
posted by jeffburdges at 1:11 AM on December 14, 2011
(See also : U.N. Protocol on Blinding Laser Weapons)
posted by jeffburdges at 1:11 AM on December 14, 2011
That being said, Fuck the Police.
posted by iamck at 1:12 AM on December 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by iamck at 1:12 AM on December 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yeah! Fuck the Police. And the government! And all their taxes and regulations!!!! And all of those oppressive laws.
Cause without the police no one can enforce the collection of taxes or stop those polluters or prevent people from refusing to serve whomever they please at their restaurants. Correct?
Your civil rights got violated? Sue away motherfuckers, because without the police, there will be no one to serve the summons, no one to bring the miscreants to trial, no one to enforce the rulings of the courts.
Without the police everyone gets to enforce their own civil rights. It will be a libertarian utopia of citizens and their second amendment remedies. It will be the NRA against the NEA. Books versus guns! Aliens versus Predators.
So yeah man! Fuck the Police.
posted by three blind mice at 2:00 AM on December 14, 2011
Cause without the police no one can enforce the collection of taxes or stop those polluters or prevent people from refusing to serve whomever they please at their restaurants. Correct?
Your civil rights got violated? Sue away motherfuckers, because without the police, there will be no one to serve the summons, no one to bring the miscreants to trial, no one to enforce the rulings of the courts.
Without the police everyone gets to enforce their own civil rights. It will be a libertarian utopia of citizens and their second amendment remedies. It will be the NRA against the NEA. Books versus guns! Aliens versus Predators.
So yeah man! Fuck the Police.
posted by three blind mice at 2:00 AM on December 14, 2011
Without the police everyone gets to enforce their own civil rights.Police don't enforce civil rights, the courts do. You have to sue someone if they're violated.
posted by delmoi at 2:20 AM on December 14, 2011 [3 favorites]
Also, court orders are typically enforced by the sheriffs office, not municipal police.
posted by delmoi at 2:23 AM on December 14, 2011
posted by delmoi at 2:23 AM on December 14, 2011
Yeeah, I don't think anyone is advocating for the police to disappear, quite the opposite: the people are outraged that a publicly-funded force for good is increasingly becoming a weapon against the very people it was created to "serve and protect". Clearly nobody wants the police to disappear, we just want them to be fighting for the right cause, and that without the abnormal excess of aggression that a psychological test for sadism might weed out.
The woman they quote in the video phrases it better than I could: "You are the working people. You should be on our side, protecting these kids who came to fight for justice."
posted by Mooseli at 3:17 AM on December 14, 2011 [8 favorites]
The woman they quote in the video phrases it better than I could: "You are the working people. You should be on our side, protecting these kids who came to fight for justice."
posted by Mooseli at 3:17 AM on December 14, 2011 [8 favorites]
Also, court orders are typically enforced by the sheriffs office, not municipal police.
Yeeah, I don't think anyone is advocating for the police to disappear,
I don't remember Ice Cube, MC Ren, Easy E, and Dr. Dre drawing such a fine distinction. They were bitching about all police. Street cops, prison guards, the whole mess.
"To be beaten on, and thrown in jail. We can go toe-to-toe in the middle of the cell."
Right? Dre and his boys were rapping about being hassled by the cops FOR NO REASON other than being black. They weren't whining about being forceably thrown out of a public park they decided to "occupy" after being given every chance to leave peacefully.
NWA were were protesting about being pulled over and hassled by the cops for driving down the goddamned street minding their own business.
But whatever. There is no parallel here. Not even a weak metaphor. It's not right that a bunch of privileged white kids hijack this song for their own purposes.
Neil Young gave you all the ammo you could ever need.
posted by three blind mice at 3:26 AM on December 14, 2011
Yeeah, I don't think anyone is advocating for the police to disappear,
I don't remember Ice Cube, MC Ren, Easy E, and Dr. Dre drawing such a fine distinction. They were bitching about all police. Street cops, prison guards, the whole mess.
"To be beaten on, and thrown in jail. We can go toe-to-toe in the middle of the cell."
Right? Dre and his boys were rapping about being hassled by the cops FOR NO REASON other than being black. They weren't whining about being forceably thrown out of a public park they decided to "occupy" after being given every chance to leave peacefully.
NWA were were protesting about being pulled over and hassled by the cops for driving down the goddamned street minding their own business.
But whatever. There is no parallel here. Not even a weak metaphor. It's not right that a bunch of privileged white kids hijack this song for their own purposes.
Neil Young gave you all the ammo you could ever need.
posted by three blind mice at 3:26 AM on December 14, 2011
detournement is the root of all evil
posted by LogicalDash at 3:37 AM on December 14, 2011
posted by LogicalDash at 3:37 AM on December 14, 2011
whining about being forceably thrown out
People are "whining" because the police are using force against peaceful protesters. No one is "whining" about them being arrested. They're "whining" about being pepper sprayed while they sit in a circle.
You are being awfully blind.
posted by flaterik at 4:15 AM on December 14, 2011 [11 favorites]
People are "whining" because the police are using force against peaceful protesters. No one is "whining" about them being arrested. They're "whining" about being pepper sprayed while they sit in a circle.
You are being awfully blind.
posted by flaterik at 4:15 AM on December 14, 2011 [11 favorites]
You did notice that most of the rappers in the video were not white, right? Christ.
posted by flaterik at 4:27 AM on December 14, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by flaterik at 4:27 AM on December 14, 2011 [2 favorites]
I don't like where this is headed. Out of many, many thousands of interactions between police and protestors, there have definitely been some abuses. Those abuses need to be reported, and the abusers penalized, and further abuse stopped. Period. That said, those abuses are in the distinct minority - really, the tiny minority.
That said, video like this, like it or not, starts up a serious confirmation bias among those who already have their minds made up about the police. I think videos like this also distort the larger picture. There are good cops, and there are bad cops. My assumption is that most cops are good cops, but there are bad apples and we need to get rid of the latter, right quick. I don't think those bad cops represent the 1%; they represent themselves. Who knows what goes on in the minds of the occasional overstressed cop who is already on edge, or psychologically challenged? Is s/he clubbing someone to help the 1%; I don't think so.
So, as stated prior, we are beginning to see a media co-option of the OWS movement; it's starting to get "defined", and it's starting to gain a "cool" factor among those who "kind of" identify with its purpose, while continuing their daily rituals of outsized materialism, etc. Occupy is starting to become "entertainment'. I wrote about that here. McLuhan would have a blast with this.
There is no doubt that we are being screwed by influencers who buy public policy, degrade democratic transparency, and in the process find ways to make the most outrageous actions and policies - many which would normally be considered illegal, or grossly unjust, legal.
There is a lot of fear; there is a lot of uncertainty. From those perceptive fields it's always tempting to start generating demagoguery. Yes, we should film the police, but we need to start figuring out ways to *outsmart* the elites that are screwing with our democracy. Remember, the media is controlled by those at the very top; they have a vested interest in slip-sliding various the "Occupy" movements into a media stream of entertainment, and dissembling the whole thing into "categories" that are easily consumed by the public - the public that is too busy to go down and Occupy; they're busy paying the bills.
So, we end up with Occupy as "a bunch of long hairs"; or "scruffy college kids"; or "homeless hangers-on and druggies"; or "anarchists"; or "undisciplined in their efforts for change". All this stuff enters "memeland" and gets consumed, and the Occupy movements have no control over that!. Thus, we get a battle of new, erupting memes, like this video, which basically makes the cops look universally evil, and the images start to get more and more extreme, on both sides, but who's got the power to present the picture they want in a way that's believable? My sense is that that's the media.
We're stuck in that reality. I remember the 60's, when everyone thought there was going to be real change. Did anything really change, really. Did the 1% get hurt by all that? Sure, we helped to stop the war, but that's mostly because there were upper-middle-class kids getting drafted; some of those kids came from the 1%. So, the media helped bring down Johnson, and end the war.
The media isn't always 100% on the side of the 1%, but it's strategic leaning is to grab your attention, and push varying memes into the ecology of attention; to keep you entertained; to keep you exposed to the ads; to sell print and page views. This is what OWS is starting to become, and I'm afraid that it will be relegated to irrelevancy within a very short time *unless* there is a way to directly, frontally expose the various individuals who call the shots for the .01%, and the policy makers they buy.
There is a lot to be said for shame in a mediated world; it can be a powerful ally. Right now, OWS is going after the basically *anonymous* 1%. Strip their anonymity! Start making videos about the *people* who are involved. That puts THEM in the press; that puts THEIR names and reputations out there, attached to the memes. When you do that, you corner them, and expose them as the destroyers of democratic transparency that they are.
What I'm trying to get across is that it's perfectly legitimate to get pissed off about police brutality, but that's FAR from where the Occupy needs to spend its time and attention, if we want change, permanent change. Otherwise, near-long-term, Occupy movements will be sliced and diced and sold to you, even as you think you are seeing something significant. You will get conned, again, by the mediated images generated by the .01% that influence our thinking, more than we care to admit, or even know. Use the media against itself! To do that, you have to get directly to the PEOPLE behind the outrage; that's not the bad cops; they're small fry; they need to be stopped, but there's a much larger prize than that.
Currently, I don't think the infamous 1% could give a rat's ass about what is happening; I don't see them being touched by it. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have an unfunny feeling that I'm not.
posted by Vibrissae at 4:39 AM on December 14, 2011 [2 favorites]
That said, video like this, like it or not, starts up a serious confirmation bias among those who already have their minds made up about the police. I think videos like this also distort the larger picture. There are good cops, and there are bad cops. My assumption is that most cops are good cops, but there are bad apples and we need to get rid of the latter, right quick. I don't think those bad cops represent the 1%; they represent themselves. Who knows what goes on in the minds of the occasional overstressed cop who is already on edge, or psychologically challenged? Is s/he clubbing someone to help the 1%; I don't think so.
So, as stated prior, we are beginning to see a media co-option of the OWS movement; it's starting to get "defined", and it's starting to gain a "cool" factor among those who "kind of" identify with its purpose, while continuing their daily rituals of outsized materialism, etc. Occupy is starting to become "entertainment'. I wrote about that here. McLuhan would have a blast with this.
There is no doubt that we are being screwed by influencers who buy public policy, degrade democratic transparency, and in the process find ways to make the most outrageous actions and policies - many which would normally be considered illegal, or grossly unjust, legal.
There is a lot of fear; there is a lot of uncertainty. From those perceptive fields it's always tempting to start generating demagoguery. Yes, we should film the police, but we need to start figuring out ways to *outsmart* the elites that are screwing with our democracy. Remember, the media is controlled by those at the very top; they have a vested interest in slip-sliding various the "Occupy" movements into a media stream of entertainment, and dissembling the whole thing into "categories" that are easily consumed by the public - the public that is too busy to go down and Occupy; they're busy paying the bills.
So, we end up with Occupy as "a bunch of long hairs"; or "scruffy college kids"; or "homeless hangers-on and druggies"; or "anarchists"; or "undisciplined in their efforts for change". All this stuff enters "memeland" and gets consumed, and the Occupy movements have no control over that!. Thus, we get a battle of new, erupting memes, like this video, which basically makes the cops look universally evil, and the images start to get more and more extreme, on both sides, but who's got the power to present the picture they want in a way that's believable? My sense is that that's the media.
We're stuck in that reality. I remember the 60's, when everyone thought there was going to be real change. Did anything really change, really. Did the 1% get hurt by all that? Sure, we helped to stop the war, but that's mostly because there were upper-middle-class kids getting drafted; some of those kids came from the 1%. So, the media helped bring down Johnson, and end the war.
The media isn't always 100% on the side of the 1%, but it's strategic leaning is to grab your attention, and push varying memes into the ecology of attention; to keep you entertained; to keep you exposed to the ads; to sell print and page views. This is what OWS is starting to become, and I'm afraid that it will be relegated to irrelevancy within a very short time *unless* there is a way to directly, frontally expose the various individuals who call the shots for the .01%, and the policy makers they buy.
There is a lot to be said for shame in a mediated world; it can be a powerful ally. Right now, OWS is going after the basically *anonymous* 1%. Strip their anonymity! Start making videos about the *people* who are involved. That puts THEM in the press; that puts THEIR names and reputations out there, attached to the memes. When you do that, you corner them, and expose them as the destroyers of democratic transparency that they are.
What I'm trying to get across is that it's perfectly legitimate to get pissed off about police brutality, but that's FAR from where the Occupy needs to spend its time and attention, if we want change, permanent change. Otherwise, near-long-term, Occupy movements will be sliced and diced and sold to you, even as you think you are seeing something significant. You will get conned, again, by the mediated images generated by the .01% that influence our thinking, more than we care to admit, or even know. Use the media against itself! To do that, you have to get directly to the PEOPLE behind the outrage; that's not the bad cops; they're small fry; they need to be stopped, but there's a much larger prize than that.
Currently, I don't think the infamous 1% could give a rat's ass about what is happening; I don't see them being touched by it. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have an unfunny feeling that I'm not.
posted by Vibrissae at 4:39 AM on December 14, 2011 [2 favorites]
Vibrissae, I don't doubt that most of the police don't actively beat people and assault them without cause. Unfortunately, some do. And the rest cover for them and defend them. Examples are all over the place, but the cops protesting the arrest of fellow officers for breaking the law in the Bronx springs to mind immediately.
So yes, film the police, hold them accountable, because absolutely no one else will.
posted by Hactar at 6:51 AM on December 14, 2011 [11 favorites]
So yes, film the police, hold them accountable, because absolutely no one else will.
posted by Hactar at 6:51 AM on December 14, 2011 [11 favorites]
Really? A main complaint is "white people" coopting this song? Are you blind? They've reworked this for the digital age. "Film" the police is a helluva lot better (and WAY more effective) than shooting at them with guns. Filming might get you arrested. Shooting will get you dead.
Great video. Thanks for posting this.
posted by Big_B at 6:57 AM on December 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
Great video. Thanks for posting this.
posted by Big_B at 6:57 AM on December 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yeah, Hectar has it. The fundamental problem isn't that all police officers are sadistic bullies just waiting for the chance to kick some teenagers head in for no reason. For the most part, no one believes that. I've been a victim of police violence more than once, but I've also met plenty of decent cops.
The problem isn't even that the police are encouraged from above to use violence and intimidation tactics to violate the rights of protestors, minorities, and the poor. That happens, and it needs to change, but it pales next to the real problem.
The real problem is that even the good cops are committed to a mob-like fraternal protection so twisted and far-reaching that a police officer who may be the nicest guy in the world will actually believe that it's the right thing to do to form ranks and protect a rapist, because without solidarity the police can't do their job of protecting the world from bad people.
That's bullshit, and we know it's bullshit, and really one of the best ways we can break the pattern is to catch more and more police misconduct on tape until even the most pro-police people start to get mad. And then maybe finally we'll start to see Internal Affairs departments with actual teeth.
posted by 256 at 7:04 AM on December 14, 2011 [5 favorites]
The problem isn't even that the police are encouraged from above to use violence and intimidation tactics to violate the rights of protestors, minorities, and the poor. That happens, and it needs to change, but it pales next to the real problem.
The real problem is that even the good cops are committed to a mob-like fraternal protection so twisted and far-reaching that a police officer who may be the nicest guy in the world will actually believe that it's the right thing to do to form ranks and protect a rapist, because without solidarity the police can't do their job of protecting the world from bad people.
That's bullshit, and we know it's bullshit, and really one of the best ways we can break the pattern is to catch more and more police misconduct on tape until even the most pro-police people start to get mad. And then maybe finally we'll start to see Internal Affairs departments with actual teeth.
posted by 256 at 7:04 AM on December 14, 2011 [5 favorites]
Holy shit, B. Dolan's on MeFi? I'm gonna get all fangirl and then post this around.
posted by Theta States at 7:16 AM on December 14, 2011
posted by Theta States at 7:16 AM on December 14, 2011
Yeah! Fuck the Police. And the government! And all their taxes and regulations!!!! And all of those oppressive laws.
...
So yeah man! Fuck the Police.
I know, right? Man, if only it were possible to hire someone to enforce the laws without also giving them license to put peacefully protesting veterans in the hospital without any kind of repercussions.
posted by gauche at 7:20 AM on December 14, 2011 [10 favorites]
...
So yeah man! Fuck the Police.
I know, right? Man, if only it were possible to hire someone to enforce the laws without also giving them license to put peacefully protesting veterans in the hospital without any kind of repercussions.
posted by gauche at 7:20 AM on December 14, 2011 [10 favorites]
It's like some people in this thread think that filming the police is gonna hurt every single cop caught on camera.
I promise you, people don't get outraged at videos of cops performing their duties effectively and politely. The cops that get hurt by video are the cops who are doing shitty things that outrage ordinary viewers. Not "cops in general"; specific cops doing specifically shitty things.
Speech is how you nonviolently change the world. Want these protests to have effect without bloodshed? Those camera phones might help.
posted by Rory Marinich at 7:49 AM on December 14, 2011 [7 favorites]
I promise you, people don't get outraged at videos of cops performing their duties effectively and politely. The cops that get hurt by video are the cops who are doing shitty things that outrage ordinary viewers. Not "cops in general"; specific cops doing specifically shitty things.
Speech is how you nonviolently change the world. Want these protests to have effect without bloodshed? Those camera phones might help.
posted by Rory Marinich at 7:49 AM on December 14, 2011 [7 favorites]
We could push for legislations that (1) all law enforcement officers must wear tamper resistant video and audio recording devices when dealing with protests or riots, or when armed, including only less lethal weapons, and that (2) recordings produced must be filed outside police control.
Such recording devices would (a) increase conviction rates overall, especially in domestic violence cases, while (b) making cops more accountable, and (c) helping prevent cops from pressing bullshit charges.
posted by jeffburdges at 7:56 AM on December 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
Such recording devices would (a) increase conviction rates overall, especially in domestic violence cases, while (b) making cops more accountable, and (c) helping prevent cops from pressing bullshit charges.
posted by jeffburdges at 7:56 AM on December 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
I don't remember Ice Cube, MC Ren, Easy E, and Dr. Dre drawing such a fine distinction. They were bitching about all police.
Ah yes, the issue of police brutality can totally be dismissed because the song they're pulling from is from a gangster rap song that doesn't lay out a full policy for law enforcement beyond expressing rage in the moment.
And no one else has ever spoken about police brutality, ever.
Perhaps we should move on to talking about why we shouldn't worry about police murdering people and nitpick at grammar within this thread next? Yes, yes, that will help the discourse immensely! Let us begin diagramming sentences!
posted by yeloson at 8:05 AM on December 14, 2011 [5 favorites]
Ah yes, the issue of police brutality can totally be dismissed because the song they're pulling from is from a gangster rap song that doesn't lay out a full policy for law enforcement beyond expressing rage in the moment.
And no one else has ever spoken about police brutality, ever.
Perhaps we should move on to talking about why we shouldn't worry about police murdering people and nitpick at grammar within this thread next? Yes, yes, that will help the discourse immensely! Let us begin diagramming sentences!
posted by yeloson at 8:05 AM on December 14, 2011 [5 favorites]
This is a really beautiful mural in Bushwick, Brooklyn. Next to it, said rights are outlined in big bold letters on the side of a building.
posted by StopMakingSense at 8:13 AM on December 14, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by StopMakingSense at 8:13 AM on December 14, 2011 [6 favorites]
What I'm trying to get across is that it's perfectly legitimate to get pissed off about police brutality, but that's FAR from where the Occupy needs to spend its time and attention, if we want change, permanent change.
So what have you done lately?
This question applies to everyone in these OWS threads who does nothing but go "OWS is wrong to..." and "OWS should focus on..." and so on. Do you ever go to the Occupy in your city, if there is one? Do you go to the meetings and add your voice and critiques and suggestions? Do you act in some other way to bring change? Do you, at the very minimum, pick up the phone every once in a while and call your congresscritter?
posted by rtha at 8:52 AM on December 14, 2011 [2 favorites]
So what have you done lately?
This question applies to everyone in these OWS threads who does nothing but go "OWS is wrong to..." and "OWS should focus on..." and so on. Do you ever go to the Occupy in your city, if there is one? Do you go to the meetings and add your voice and critiques and suggestions? Do you act in some other way to bring change? Do you, at the very minimum, pick up the phone every once in a while and call your congresscritter?
posted by rtha at 8:52 AM on December 14, 2011 [2 favorites]
No one is "whining" about them being arrested. They're "whining" about being pepper sprayed while they sit in a circle.
No, actually they are! Lots of people whining about arrests (the arrests themselves, not how the arrests were made) when people have held protests in bank lobbies or held unpermitted marches or occupied public parks.
There's a large number of folks who think that time place and manner restrictions on protests are unjust and then complain when those restrictions are enforced, even with "peaceful" arrests.
posted by Jahaza at 8:55 AM on December 14, 2011
No, actually they are! Lots of people whining about arrests (the arrests themselves, not how the arrests were made) when people have held protests in bank lobbies or held unpermitted marches or occupied public parks.
There's a large number of folks who think that time place and manner restrictions on protests are unjust and then complain when those restrictions are enforced, even with "peaceful" arrests.
posted by Jahaza at 8:55 AM on December 14, 2011
Do you ever go to the Occupy in your city, if there is one?
Yes.
Do you go to the meetings and add your voice and critiques and suggestions?
My perspective is far enough from the movement's that I'd pretty much have to block everything and since a block is "leaving the movement," it would be a once and done thing.
Do you act in some other way to bring change?
Yes. Though not that kind of change.
Do you, at the very minimum, pick up the phone every once in a while and call your congresscritter?
Yep.
posted by Jahaza at 8:57 AM on December 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yes.
Do you go to the meetings and add your voice and critiques and suggestions?
My perspective is far enough from the movement's that I'd pretty much have to block everything and since a block is "leaving the movement," it would be a once and done thing.
Do you act in some other way to bring change?
Yes. Though not that kind of change.
Do you, at the very minimum, pick up the phone every once in a while and call your congresscritter?
Yep.
posted by Jahaza at 8:57 AM on December 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
I don't like where this is headed. Out of many, many thousands of interactions between police and protestors, there have definitely been some abuses. Those abuses need to be reported, and the abusers penalized, and further abuse stopped. Period. That said, those abuses are in the distinct minority - really, the tiny minority.
Um, no - the police are required to punish the officers that commit abuse, and regularly fail to do so, leaving it up to the abused to file a lawsuit, which gets increasingly harder because, at many of these events, the cops go in covering their names and badge numbers, illegally. And while yes, the majority of the cops have not committed abuse, all the cops have been complicit in it because they aren't stopping the officers that do. And this isn't isolated events in one city, this is happening at almost every single Occupy across the country, often coordinated by city officials.
posted by Peevish at 9:04 AM on December 14, 2011 [5 favorites]
Um, no - the police are required to punish the officers that commit abuse, and regularly fail to do so, leaving it up to the abused to file a lawsuit, which gets increasingly harder because, at many of these events, the cops go in covering their names and badge numbers, illegally. And while yes, the majority of the cops have not committed abuse, all the cops have been complicit in it because they aren't stopping the officers that do. And this isn't isolated events in one city, this is happening at almost every single Occupy across the country, often coordinated by city officials.
posted by Peevish at 9:04 AM on December 14, 2011 [5 favorites]
Echoing Peevish, and pointing out that it's not just 'the country', policing is becoming more repressive in Canada and the U.K., in coordination with the U.S., as shown by the fact that the Occupy movements in those countries were evicted on the same day.
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 9:52 AM on December 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 9:52 AM on December 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
Vibrissae: I don't like where this is headed. Out of many, many thousands of interactions between police and protestors, there have definitely been some abuses. Those abuses need to be reported, and the abusers penalized, and further abuse stopped. Period. That said, those abuses are in the distinct minority - really, the tiny minority.
Peevish: Um, no - the police are required to punish the officers that commit abuse, and regularly fail to do so, leaving it up to the abused to file a lawsuit, which gets increasingly harder because, at many of these events, the cops go in covering their names and badge numbers, illegally. And while yes, the majority of the cops have not committed abuse, all the cops have been complicit in it because they aren't stopping the officers that do. And this isn't isolated events in one city, this is happening at almost every single Occupy across the country, often coordinated by city officials.
How can you say that all the cops are complicit in the abuses of the few? If a police officer is standing in a line, 7 officers down from another than is wrongly using a nightstick to clear a crowd, how in god's name do you expect the other officers to "punish" that other officer, on the spot? In the course of a coordinated police action it's virtually impossible to carry something like that off, without causing mayhem that could lead to MORE violence.
Abusing innocent civilians is WRONG, and any cop who does that needs to be disciplined, up to and including losing his/her job, and with penalties if they have illegally injured a person.
I'm not concerned with video-taping these events; I'm concerned when claims like yours start to demonize an entire group of people - i.e. cops. Do you know where that leads? It leads to ignorant demagoguery and stupid acts on the street that incite violence against cops by fringe members of the Occupy movement, that the media can grab and use AGAINST the Occupy movement. Don't you get that?
It's just absurd to call all cops complicit in the violence we have seen. It feeds into a small mindset, and further leads to a reaction by the public that's fed images by the media, depending on how what media group is reporting to the public.
On the other side, I have been to a few of the Occupy events (I am an Occupy sympathizer), and have all-too-often seen the most egregious baiting of police, up to and including spitting on police officers, and "anonymous" thrown bottles and other things coming from the back of the crowd. It works both ways. So, there are some bad actor cops, but there are also some bad actor Occupiers - are all Occupiers then "guilty" of not controlling their own? That sounds like the argument you're making against the police.
I say film the police, and try to keep it non-violent, but making ignorant claims against the police isn't going to get you anywhere - and feeds in to the claim that the Occupy movement is just a bunch of rabble.
Last, as an Occupy sympathizer, I do not like the video; I don't think the guy in that video represents me, nor do I think he represents a lot of people who sympathize with Occupy movement goals (as diffuse as they are). I don't accept some hipster in a wool cap who thinks he's cool, railing against the police, misrepresenting my intentions for a more transparent democracy. Yeah, some people may dig what he's saying/singing - good for him, but the hue and cry I hear from some to demonize the police as a group is just plain bankrupt, and reduces the effectiveness of the Occupy movement.
posted by Vibrissae at 9:54 AM on December 14, 2011
Peevish: Um, no - the police are required to punish the officers that commit abuse, and regularly fail to do so, leaving it up to the abused to file a lawsuit, which gets increasingly harder because, at many of these events, the cops go in covering their names and badge numbers, illegally. And while yes, the majority of the cops have not committed abuse, all the cops have been complicit in it because they aren't stopping the officers that do. And this isn't isolated events in one city, this is happening at almost every single Occupy across the country, often coordinated by city officials.
How can you say that all the cops are complicit in the abuses of the few? If a police officer is standing in a line, 7 officers down from another than is wrongly using a nightstick to clear a crowd, how in god's name do you expect the other officers to "punish" that other officer, on the spot? In the course of a coordinated police action it's virtually impossible to carry something like that off, without causing mayhem that could lead to MORE violence.
Abusing innocent civilians is WRONG, and any cop who does that needs to be disciplined, up to and including losing his/her job, and with penalties if they have illegally injured a person.
I'm not concerned with video-taping these events; I'm concerned when claims like yours start to demonize an entire group of people - i.e. cops. Do you know where that leads? It leads to ignorant demagoguery and stupid acts on the street that incite violence against cops by fringe members of the Occupy movement, that the media can grab and use AGAINST the Occupy movement. Don't you get that?
It's just absurd to call all cops complicit in the violence we have seen. It feeds into a small mindset, and further leads to a reaction by the public that's fed images by the media, depending on how what media group is reporting to the public.
On the other side, I have been to a few of the Occupy events (I am an Occupy sympathizer), and have all-too-often seen the most egregious baiting of police, up to and including spitting on police officers, and "anonymous" thrown bottles and other things coming from the back of the crowd. It works both ways. So, there are some bad actor cops, but there are also some bad actor Occupiers - are all Occupiers then "guilty" of not controlling their own? That sounds like the argument you're making against the police.
I say film the police, and try to keep it non-violent, but making ignorant claims against the police isn't going to get you anywhere - and feeds in to the claim that the Occupy movement is just a bunch of rabble.
Last, as an Occupy sympathizer, I do not like the video; I don't think the guy in that video represents me, nor do I think he represents a lot of people who sympathize with Occupy movement goals (as diffuse as they are). I don't accept some hipster in a wool cap who thinks he's cool, railing against the police, misrepresenting my intentions for a more transparent democracy. Yeah, some people may dig what he's saying/singing - good for him, but the hue and cry I hear from some to demonize the police as a group is just plain bankrupt, and reduces the effectiveness of the Occupy movement.
posted by Vibrissae at 9:54 AM on December 14, 2011
It's just absurd to call all cops complicit in the violence we have seen.
Say you're a cop, and you witness an assault taking place right in front of you. And you do nothing. Part of your job -- as a cop -- is to stop assaults from taking place.
When you stand around witnessing other cops committing unprovoked assaults on peaceful protestors, and you do nothing, I'm not sure if you're complicit in those assaults, exactly, but you sure as hell aren't doing your job.
posted by gauche at 10:02 AM on December 14, 2011 [3 favorites]
Say you're a cop, and you witness an assault taking place right in front of you. And you do nothing. Part of your job -- as a cop -- is to stop assaults from taking place.
When you stand around witnessing other cops committing unprovoked assaults on peaceful protestors, and you do nothing, I'm not sure if you're complicit in those assaults, exactly, but you sure as hell aren't doing your job.
posted by gauche at 10:02 AM on December 14, 2011 [3 favorites]
Last, as an Occupy sympathizer, I do not like the video; I don't think the guy in that video represents me, nor do I think he represents a lot of people who sympathize with Occupy movement goals (as diffuse as they are)
The thing is, he does represent a lot of other people who sympathize with Occupy, or the video wouldn't have been received the way it has been or gone viral as fast as it has.
Does Occupy contradict itself? Very well then, it contradicts itself. (Occupy is large, it contains multitudes.)
posted by Lexica at 10:29 AM on December 14, 2011 [2 favorites]
The thing is, he does represent a lot of other people who sympathize with Occupy, or the video wouldn't have been received the way it has been or gone viral as fast as it has.
Does Occupy contradict itself? Very well then, it contradicts itself. (Occupy is large, it contains multitudes.)
posted by Lexica at 10:29 AM on December 14, 2011 [2 favorites]
Does Occupy contradict itself? Very well then, it contradicts itself. (Occupy is large, it contains multitudes.)
That's right; it even contains cops. Don't forget that.
posted by Vibrissae at 10:44 AM on December 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
That's right; it even contains cops. Don't forget that.
posted by Vibrissae at 10:44 AM on December 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
If a police officer is standing in a line, 7 officers down from another than is wrongly using a nightstick to clear a crowd, how in god's name do you expect the other officers to "punish" that other officer, on the spot?
The same way that peaceful protesters are shouted at to "punish" the Black Bloc smah-windows types: by pointing them out, by reporting them, by going immediately to the officer in charge and saying something, etc. It's not rocket science.
posted by rtha at 10:46 AM on December 14, 2011
The same way that peaceful protesters are shouted at to "punish" the Black Bloc smah-windows types: by pointing them out, by reporting them, by going immediately to the officer in charge and saying something, etc. It's not rocket science.
posted by rtha at 10:46 AM on December 14, 2011
If a police officer is standing in a line, 7 officers down from another than is wrongly using a nightstick to clear a crowd, how in god's name do you expect the other officers to "punish" that other officer, on the spot?
I'm not worried about the police officer 7 down the line, I'm worried about the police officers directly next to the abuser on either side. Seconding gauche, when one cop starts beating a protester, what do the rest do? Do they stop it? Do nothing? Or do they join in?
At the eviction of Occupy Oakland, you had hundreds of cops with their names and badge numbers taped over. There is no reason to do that unless you don't want to be identified afterward. And the abusive cops are almost never given proper punishment by their superiors, which is part of their responsibility.
So yeah, few cops are abusers. But even fewer will take action against an abuser. And so it becomes known among abusive cops that they probably won't get punished. You can't tell a cop that will abuse you from one that won't til you're getting abused.
posted by Peevish at 11:07 AM on December 14, 2011
I'm not worried about the police officer 7 down the line, I'm worried about the police officers directly next to the abuser on either side. Seconding gauche, when one cop starts beating a protester, what do the rest do? Do they stop it? Do nothing? Or do they join in?
At the eviction of Occupy Oakland, you had hundreds of cops with their names and badge numbers taped over. There is no reason to do that unless you don't want to be identified afterward. And the abusive cops are almost never given proper punishment by their superiors, which is part of their responsibility.
So yeah, few cops are abusers. But even fewer will take action against an abuser. And so it becomes known among abusive cops that they probably won't get punished. You can't tell a cop that will abuse you from one that won't til you're getting abused.
posted by Peevish at 11:07 AM on December 14, 2011
How can you say that all the cops are complicit in the abuses of the few?
The whole point of having a police force is that we citizens are not allowed to protect society by taking the law into our own hands, we have to let the police enforce it.
If a police officer is the criminal and the rest of the police do nothing, are they in fact protecting society? If the only ones allowed to prevent crimes do not do so, how can they not be complicit?
posted by phliar at 11:17 AM on December 14, 2011
The whole point of having a police force is that we citizens are not allowed to protect society by taking the law into our own hands, we have to let the police enforce it.
If a police officer is the criminal and the rest of the police do nothing, are they in fact protecting society? If the only ones allowed to prevent crimes do not do so, how can they not be complicit?
posted by phliar at 11:17 AM on December 14, 2011
That's right; it even contains cops. Don't forget that.
Yes, it does. OPD Officer Fred Shavies, retired Philadelphia Police captain Ray Lewis, former Seattle Police Chief Norm Stamper, and the members of Occupy Police, among others.
What's your point? "Occupy includes cops, so don't film the cops"? How does that follow?
posted by Lexica at 11:26 AM on December 14, 2011 [3 favorites]
Yes, it does. OPD Officer Fred Shavies, retired Philadelphia Police captain Ray Lewis, former Seattle Police Chief Norm Stamper, and the members of Occupy Police, among others.
What's your point? "Occupy includes cops, so don't film the cops"? How does that follow?
posted by Lexica at 11:26 AM on December 14, 2011 [3 favorites]
These kids today
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is three words farther than twoleftfeet got into his post without becoming a walking stereotype.
posted by IAmBroom at 11:28 AM on December 14, 2011
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is three words farther than twoleftfeet got into his post without becoming a walking stereotype.
posted by IAmBroom at 11:28 AM on December 14, 2011
What's your point? "Occupy includes cops, so don't film the cops"? How does that follow?
That's not even remotely close to what I wrote; I never said/wrote "don't film cops" ; in fact, just the opposite! Please read more carefully. Again, my point is that it's folly, and strategically misguided to demonize all cops, in general, like the misguided videos, above. Read what I wrote above about why that is one of the worst things that the Occupy movement can do if it wants to get more of middle America on its side. If the Occupy movement doesn't start to vary its messaging, it is going to get "consumed" by the media.
Think I'm kidding? Just look at the photos of the American protestors in the Time Magazine link; they look like they could be in an Abercrombie and Fitch catalog. That's just the beginning. They are becoming entertainment memes, not revolutionary memes - they are becoming objectified, with characterizations regarding their relationship to structure and authority. They are being put in a box, slowly, because little-by-little, the Occupy movement is becoming more one dimensional in its messaging - in spite of its claim to diversity.
Occupy, in fact, is slowly being taken over by simplistic messengers, like the people in the video. In so doing, the power of the Occupy movement becomes marginalized, institutionalized in a way that makes the Occupy movement seem *antithetical* to the interests of the class it is supposed to represent (that is already beginning to happen! And, worst of all, it will eventually become another bubble gun wrapper, and made irrelevant. So, keep supporting ignorant general assumptions about all cops, and all 1%'ers, and all persons in authority - go on - see what happens. You heard it here, first.
posted by Vibrissae at 8:14 PM on December 14, 2011
That's not even remotely close to what I wrote; I never said/wrote "don't film cops" ; in fact, just the opposite! Please read more carefully. Again, my point is that it's folly, and strategically misguided to demonize all cops, in general, like the misguided videos, above. Read what I wrote above about why that is one of the worst things that the Occupy movement can do if it wants to get more of middle America on its side. If the Occupy movement doesn't start to vary its messaging, it is going to get "consumed" by the media.
Think I'm kidding? Just look at the photos of the American protestors in the Time Magazine link; they look like they could be in an Abercrombie and Fitch catalog. That's just the beginning. They are becoming entertainment memes, not revolutionary memes - they are becoming objectified, with characterizations regarding their relationship to structure and authority. They are being put in a box, slowly, because little-by-little, the Occupy movement is becoming more one dimensional in its messaging - in spite of its claim to diversity.
Occupy, in fact, is slowly being taken over by simplistic messengers, like the people in the video. In so doing, the power of the Occupy movement becomes marginalized, institutionalized in a way that makes the Occupy movement seem *antithetical* to the interests of the class it is supposed to represent (that is already beginning to happen! And, worst of all, it will eventually become another bubble gun wrapper, and made irrelevant. So, keep supporting ignorant general assumptions about all cops, and all 1%'ers, and all persons in authority - go on - see what happens. You heard it here, first.
posted by Vibrissae at 8:14 PM on December 14, 2011
b.dolan has been peripheral to this discussion but for mine, his music, lyrics and perception cut through a world of bullshit and resonate deeply.
b.dolan
I can't encourage you enough to do your research on b.dolan, get your hands on at least one of his albums and let him bareback your brain. It's a travesty that the masses aren't being soaked in hip hop this cutting, savage and honest. Plus he's a mefite... fucking aye!
posted by Tuatara at 2:31 AM on December 15, 2011
b.dolan
I can't encourage you enough to do your research on b.dolan, get your hands on at least one of his albums and let him bareback your brain. It's a travesty that the masses aren't being soaked in hip hop this cutting, savage and honest. Plus he's a mefite... fucking aye!
posted by Tuatara at 2:31 AM on December 15, 2011
Vibrissae:
It's a little interesting that you're expressing concern over the occupiers being dehumanized, when you insist on referring to people as memes.
Really solid bit of concern trolling there otherwise. Good on ya!
posted by broadway bill at 5:24 AM on December 15, 2011 [1 favorite]
It's a little interesting that you're expressing concern over the occupiers being dehumanized, when you insist on referring to people as memes.
Really solid bit of concern trolling there otherwise. Good on ya!
posted by broadway bill at 5:24 AM on December 15, 2011 [1 favorite]
I can't encourage you enough to do your research on b.dolan, get your hands on at least one of his albums
What 5 tracks of his would you (or anybody) recommend? I'd never heard of the guy, or if I did, I'd forgotten about him.
posted by cashman at 8:03 AM on December 15, 2011
What 5 tracks of his would you (or anybody) recommend? I'd never heard of the guy, or if I did, I'd forgotten about him.
posted by cashman at 8:03 AM on December 15, 2011
Allentown, PA police officer filmed Tasing 14-year old girl. In the groin.
How is this related to Occupy? Well, apparently he had to deploy the Taser, because he feared that she was inciting a crowd of students with her hostile demeanor and harsh language. Their could have been a deadly UC Davis-style riot.
posted by running order squabble fest at 8:57 AM on December 15, 2011 [1 favorite]
How is this related to Occupy? Well, apparently he had to deploy the Taser, because he feared that she was inciting a crowd of students with her hostile demeanor and harsh language. Their could have been a deadly UC Davis-style riot.
posted by running order squabble fest at 8:57 AM on December 15, 2011 [1 favorite]
Their=there.
Tasing = deploying a Taser, natch.
posted by running order squabble fest at 8:58 AM on December 15, 2011
Tasing = deploying a Taser, natch.
posted by running order squabble fest at 8:58 AM on December 15, 2011
What 5 tracks of his would you (or anybody) recommend?
My 4 favourite B. Dolan tracks:
Leaving New York
Economy Of Words (Bail It Out)
Fifty Ways To Bleed Your Customers
Earthmovers
posted by Theta States at 9:44 AM on December 15, 2011
My 4 favourite B. Dolan tracks:
Leaving New York
Economy Of Words (Bail It Out)
Fifty Ways To Bleed Your Customers
Earthmovers
posted by Theta States at 9:44 AM on December 15, 2011
That video is positively fantastic.
posted by Dodecadermaldenticles at 2:23 PM on December 15, 2011
posted by Dodecadermaldenticles at 2:23 PM on December 15, 2011
A day late and a dollar short. Absolutely agree with the above but would add the below as essential to me.
Lucifer (Warren Anderson, UCC CEO tribute)
Joan of Arcadia
One breath left
Still Electric
Marvin (Marvin Gaye Tribute)
posted by Tuatara at 2:42 AM on December 16, 2011
Lucifer (Warren Anderson, UCC CEO tribute)
Joan of Arcadia
One breath left
Still Electric
Marvin (Marvin Gaye Tribute)
posted by Tuatara at 2:42 AM on December 16, 2011
Megaupload Video Reinstated, Universal Says “You Can’t Touch Us”
In essence, Universal claims they already have censorship powers through a private deal with youtube.
posted by jeffburdges at 1:43 PM on December 16, 2011
In essence, Universal claims they already have censorship powers through a private deal with youtube.
posted by jeffburdges at 1:43 PM on December 16, 2011
OP: B. Dolan mentioned this fact on Twitter: Listen to the audio w/ out the video, and there isn't a single of mention of Occupy in the song.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 1:54 PM on December 17, 2011
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 1:54 PM on December 17, 2011
The whole existence of police is predicated on legitimizing the use of violence for these select few. Police are selected by the state to protect the interests of the state. In certain circumstances, filming police will result in it no longer being in the state's interest to protect an individual police officer, but the problem is not these individuals (though they are a problem) but the structure into which they fit.
posted by beerbajay at 3:39 AM on December 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by beerbajay at 3:39 AM on December 18, 2011 [1 favorite]
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Great video/tune.
posted by sleepy pete at 9:40 PM on December 13, 2011 [1 favorite]