Comments on: Breastplates and Boobplates

Breastplates and Boobplates

Artw — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:09:16 -0800

Fantasy armor and lady bits, from the perspective of an armorer

By: R. Schlock

R. Schlock — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:14:38 -0800

I'm an armorer. I make actual armor that people wear when they hit each other with swords. I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? Armor.

By: kenko

kenko — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:22:24 -0800

Fully kitted in this stuff, they'd be indistinguishable from men. While in combat that's just fine, but for artistic purposes, we usually like to have our characters clearly gendered. That is a dispensable artistic purpose, and after all, realism is an artistic purpose too (and so might be undermining the audience's expectations of titillation).

By: found missing

found missing — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:22:30 -0800

But, I hardly know her.

By: kafziel

kafziel — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:24:19 -0800

I think my favorite part of the article was the "To give a bit of perspective, this would be the male equivalent." bit, where he turned up something that's ... not far off from what a lot of classical armies wore to battle. De rigueur for ancient Greece.

By: madajb

madajb — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:25:58 -0800

"I intend to set the internet straight." Heh, good luck with that. See also: http://xkcd.com/386/

By: kenko

kenko — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:26:32 -0800

De rigueur for ancient Greece. This hoplite might disagree.

By: kenko

kenko — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:29:08 -0800

Or whoever wore this. Anyway, he's specifically talking about armor that purports to belong to late middle ages Europe, hence the talk about plate mail.

By: autopilot

autopilot — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:29:13 -0800

Related post. And Women Fighters in Reasonable Armor (also linked in the article) is full of much more reasonable examples.

By: Tomorrowful

Tomorrowful — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:31:41 -0800

Wait. He's supposedly at the University of Waterloo, and he's spelling it "armor?" I call shenanigans.

By: hermitosis

hermitosis — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:32:04 -0800

In fantasy stuff like that I always imagine that the scant armor indicates just how badass and confident a fighter the woman is -- as far as she's concerned, no one will even come close to landing a blow. And that is indeed how it usually plays out. It also weaponizes her sexuality in a way that often proves advantageous somehow in battle. Yeah I know that this kind of characterization is mainly invented as a way of rationalizing the injection of T&A into a male fantasy world, but as ridiculous as it may look to an armor expert, it has its own separate effect on characterization which is sometimes quite a bit deeper than what you see on the surface.

By: asnider

asnider — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:34:31 -0800

While this doesn't add too much new to the conversation regarding female armour in fantasy settings, it is interesting to get the perspective of an actual armourer. That said: the boobplate is ridiculous. The author (and creator of the boobplate pictured) mostly acknowledges that, but really, fitting your boobs into a metal "bra" is not practical -- fighting or not.

By: Slackermagee

Slackermagee — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:34:38 -0800

Awesome, so we've tackled this one? Cause I got another gripe with the depiction of women fighters: arm size. Google Judith Slaying Holofernes and look at the difference between Gentileschi's work and much earlier examples. You need big arms for the murder-make.

By: vidur

vidur — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:35:07 -0800

Metafilter: intend to set the internet straight

By: asnider

asnider — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:36:23 -0800

He's supposedly at the University of Waterloo, and he's spelling it "armor?" A lot of my professors used American spellings. In fact, a lot of them were Americans. I didn't attend Waterloo, but I did attend a Canadian university.

By: 23skidoo

23skidoo — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:37:44 -0800

So characters who wear boobplates are bad, but actual women who want him to craft a boobplate for wearing are okay. That's weird.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:37:58 -0800

If you really bad ass you wouldn't care what you looked like, if you could encase whole villages in molten glass or slaughter a thousand legions with a single cut, maybe you look like you just got out of bed. Maybe people dress up to visit you.

By: heathkit

heathkit — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:38:28 -0800

Actually, I think the pointless male armor is pretty rad...

By: ArkhanJG

ArkhanJG — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:39:00 -0800

If your male character is a barbarian with loin cloth, a leather bikini is appropriate. If your male paladin is wearing gothic plate, the women should be too - and no cheating with a stab-in-the-heart cutout or bare midriff. Under no circumstances are metal floss panties appropriate, not least because what they'd do to your buttocks and genitals.

By: Wolfdog

Wolfdog — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:39:37 -0800

Constable Angua had mastered saluting first go. She wouldn't have a full uniform yet, not until someone had taken a, well, let's face it, a breastplate along to old Remitt the armorer and told him to beat it out really well here and here, and no helmet in the world would cover all that mass of ash-blond hair but, it occurred to Carrot, Constable Angua wouldn't need any of that stuff anyway. People would be queuing up to get arrested.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:40:00 -0800

Well, real boobplate wearing woman probobly doesn't have to worry about knives and arrows heading toward her chest but you never know.

By: anthill

anthill — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:41:09 -0800

OGLAF on breastplates

By: Justinian

Justinian — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:44:22 -0800

But as he points out, just tripping in boobplate is dangerous. You could easily crack your sternum.

By: His thoughts were red thoughts

His thoughts were red thoughts — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:44:59 -0800

Worth noting the OGLAF is generally NSFW

By: Tomorrowful

Tomorrowful — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:45:36 -0800

So characters who wear boobplates are bad, but actual women who want him to craft a boobplate for wearing are okay. That's weird. That wasn't my takeaway at all - I got a clear message of "For realism, it should be the same as men; for an acceptable bow to gendered imagery we can have boobplates; steel bikinis are right out."

By: Wolfdog

Wolfdog — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:46:05 -0800

...and I could overthink a plate of boobs.

By: cmoj

cmoj — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:48:03 -0800

Google Judith Slaying Holofernes and look at the difference between Gentileschi's work and much earlier examples. You need big arms for the murder-make. I don't understand. It's not like they did battle.

By: vidur

vidur — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:50:35 -0800

Fully kitted in this stuff, they'd be indistinguishable from men. While in combat that's just fine, but for artistic purposes, we usually like to have our characters clearly gendered. So we can't just look at what real women wore and expect to get very much of value for our modern designs. Something about this is bothering me. If the artistic purpose of clearly gendered characters trumps realism, then surely other purposes (commercial?) could also trump realism. Why bother ~~beanplating~~ boobplating?

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:51:06 -0800

Well the depiction of female warriors in the fantasy tends to give them unrealistically skinny arms. I've got to put my back into deboning chicken, I can't imagine how hard lobbing off heads left and right is.

By: Auguris

Auguris — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:51:10 -0800

So characters who wear boobplates are bad, but actual women who want him to craft a boobplate for wearing are okay. That's weird. A male-created female fighting character wearing boobplate is a bit different from a modern-day woman wearing one for fun.

By: RobotVoodooPower

RobotVoodooPower — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:55:40 -0800

BREASTPLATE NO PANTS THE BEST LOOK IN THE WORLD

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 15:58:10 -0800

That's pretty much I address the peasantry yes.

By: rebent

rebent — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 16:06:12 -0800

A male-created female fighting character wearing boobplate is a bit different from a modern-day woman wearing one for fun. But what if that modern-day woman is choosing to wear one based on the male-created female fighting character literature/media that is constantly bombarding her? Can we allow her to make free choices about what she wears if those choices are informed by the ubiquitous patriarchal titillation?

By: Tomorrowful

Tomorrowful — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 16:09:37 -0800

Can we allow her to make free choices about what she wears if those choices are informed by the ubiquitous patriarchal titillation? Yes. When there is any doubt at all, we default to "People can make the choices they want to make, without patronizingly examining all of the inputs we believe are going into that choice." Or, to put it another way, we generally shouldn't be talking about allowing adults to make choices.

By: GenjiandProust

GenjiandProust — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 16:10:06 -0800

Actually, I think the pointless male armor is pretty rad... A little too much bare leg, if you ask me. For full effect, he should have, like, one greave, or a tiny thigh-covering on one side, or maybe knee protection (although that might give you the wrong idea*). I would suggest a strange little pouch tied to his leg, but that would make him look a bit like a Rob Liefeld character, and we can't have that. * Or, to be fair, the right one; I am not judging.

By: Tomorrowful

Tomorrowful — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 16:13:36 -0800

A lot of my professors used American spellings. In fact, a lot of them were Americans. I didn't attend Waterloo, but I did attend a Canadian university. I'm sorry, but if you're going to be reasonable and point out the obvious gap in my logic, I'm going to have to ask you to leave the thread.

By: elizardbits

elizardbits — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 16:17:43 -0800

For full effect, he should have, like, one greave, or a tiny thigh-covering on one side That's actually fairly close to the armoring used by murmillo-style gladiators, iirc - helmet, loincloth, manica on the sword arm and greave on the opposite leg.

By: HopperFan

HopperFan — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 16:21:55 -0800

"5.2 Go for the eyes Boo" Space hamster!!!

By: [expletive deleted]

[expletive deleted] — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 16:24:42 -0800

While stupid boobplate and thongplate nonsense is defintely too common, there is one giant balancing factor out there. I know it's not medieval or what is traditionally thought of as fantasy, but the coolest suit of full coverage, battle-worthy armor is worn by a female character: Samus fucking Aran.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 16:25:10 -0800

Minature gigantic space ham-star! Thankyouverymuch.

By: asnider

asnider — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 16:29:00 -0800

I'm sorry, but if you're going to be reasonable and point out the obvious gap in my logic, I'm going to have to ask you to leave the thread. Aw.

By: Kid Charlemagne

Kid Charlemagne — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 16:29:14 -0800

Explain to me why men's plate armor in computer games and movies is virtually never a peascod style breastplates complete with that wonderfully manly beer belly prow look about it? So where is the web angst about the unhealthy message we're sending to 14th century men at arms, or how their stomachs are just big helicopter landing pads or so forth? I mean, seriously, the ratio of angsty hand wringing the issue of booby armor gets on teh interwebs verses the effect it has on women in the real world is mind boggling. I'll grant that maternity leave just lacks the raw sex appeal of beating on steel with a hammer, but this is getting to be an unhealthy fixation. For the record, the lion's share of the women I know go with some sort of Corrazina style breast plate - so much for the patriarchy.) And don't get me started on the helmets in Skyrim.

By: Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish

Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 16:29:19 -0800

The Samus thing is balanced out by the "Zero Suit" nonsense Nintendo is throwing at us lately.

By: [expletive deleted]

[expletive deleted] — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 16:33:35 -0800

Yeah, that "zero suit Samus" thing is real bullshit for sure, but Samus's armor is no less awesome just because Nintendo's marketing department won't let her wear it.

By: Navelgazer

Navelgazer — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 17:15:51 -0800

Can I get a Previously? This is a good article

By: Because

Because — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 17:32:49 -0800

So characters who wear boobplates are bad, but actual women who want him to craft a boobplate for wearing are okay. That's weird. It seemed to me as though having made one for somebody kind of unnerved him, actually. He said he "constantly worr[ies]" about her falling and cracking her sternum. That sounds more like "well, you're an adult, if you really want to do this we can" than "oh yeah sure, that stuff is a great idea" to me. As a craftsperson, one makes things one does not love but is paid for sometimes.

By: localroger

localroger — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 17:56:17 -0800

In the future fantasy armor will be a transparent force field which only works on skin that isn't covered by other clothing. Since the force field generator itself will cover some skin, that will be the only point on the warrior's body worth attacking, like Achilles' heel. The most important military innovation in centuries will be the realization that the armor field generator works when inserted into a body cavity.

By: crunchland

crunchland — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 18:38:00 -0800

Don't forget Milla.

By: jb

jb — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 18:48:15 -0800

I'm still worried about that real woman's sternum. Also, I don't know about you, but mine squish just fine into a regular chest plate. Squishiness is part of the package.

By: iamkimiam

iamkimiam — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 19:09:58 -0800

"Just look at Sauron, one of the most epic suits of armor ever worn; If this guy lifted his arms too high he'd poke his eyes out with his own pauldrons." If I ever rejoin World of Warcraft, I've got to find a way to use this as an insult.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 19:46:15 -0800

Nerds and Male Privilege

By: Ad hominem

Ad hominem — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 20:18:54 -0800

Check out the Daedric Armor in skyrim. The Female version (scroll down) differs only slightly. The Dwarven Armor is unisex I believe. Of course there is still the Armor of the old gods if you wanna sex it up a bit.

By: bonobothegreat

bonobothegreat — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 20:28:24 -0800

Wait. He's supposedly at the University of Waterloo, and he's spelling it "armor?" ..probably using an iPad.

By: IAmBroom

IAmBroom — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 20:48:26 -0800

Awesome, so we've tackled this one? Cause I got another gripe with the depiction of women fighters: arm size. Google Judith Slaying Holofernes and look at the difference between Gentileschi's work and much earlier examples. You need big arms for the murder-make. Nonsense, Slackermagee. My ex-girlfriend, a knight in the SCA who can knock big men off their feet, has pretty ordinary arms. Female martial artists aren't typically known for gigantic biceps, unless they're also doing steroids for bulking up. The author of The Iron Rose, a treatise on how women can succeed in a hard-style, full-force fighting sport, doesn't recommend bulking up arms anywhere in the book; she emphasizes proper use of core strength to accomplish what men typically use their arm and shoulder strength for.

By: iamkimiam

iamkimiam — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 21:32:21 -0800

Arm size is one of those less obvious features that often get sexualized in depictions of female fighters. Usually it's ridiculously small, skinny arms paired with gigantic breasts. Martial arts' physiques are not being referenced there. The article that homunculus linked to above does an excellent job explaining the problem with some of the common defenses/dismissals to complaints about sexism in nerd culture.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 21:34:35 -0800

And, from experience, holding a sword or drawing a bow with a good weight on it? Yeah you need deltoids.

By: happyroach

happyroach — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 22:59:45 -0800

These days what annoys me even more than boobplates is armor with high heels I mean plate armor with stiletto or platform heels is just ridiculous.

By: P.o.B.

P.o.B. — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 23:31:04 -0800

Yeah, well, only the most successful cat burglars wear high heels. It's true!

By: ArkhanJG

ArkhanJG — Sun, 18 Dec 2011 23:56:09 -0800

That nerds and male privilege link would be a pretty good base for it's own fpp homunculus. I'm sure I've seen a couple of other articles that cover the same area too. You'd need the bingo card too though, alas.

By: ArkhanJG

ArkhanJG — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 00:08:59 -0800

I don't think fatuglyorslutty.com ever got a fpp link either.

By: emmtee

emmtee — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 00:21:32 -0800

This thread seems as good an opportunity as any to ask: straight guys, what is up with the midriff thing? I can see where constant display of female characters' breasts, legs, butts (minus the creepy that's-what-women-are-for ubiquity) might be a turn-on, but what on earth is the deal with every other woman in fantasy looking like she's six feet tall and inadvertently picked up a top marked petite? My working hypotheses are either that it's so dudes can use their evolutionary psychological instincts to meticulously rate the quality of her womb through the skin, or to check she has a navel and thus isn't a clone out to take their money and leave them for a bad boy.

By: smidgen

smidgen — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 00:37:52 -0800

Never underestimate the sex appeal of a potential belly button raspberry. pbbbbbt!

By: belissaith

belissaith — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 00:47:10 -0800

emmtee, I assume it's because otherwise the woman could be hiding - GASP - FAT in there. Full-length shirts can be deceiving! Alternately, it's to check which side they are on in the great inny-outy war.

By: straight

straight — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 00:47:34 -0800

I think almost anything can be sexualized, emmtee. My theory on the bare midriff thing is that when big boobs became something anyone can buy from a surgeon, fashion changed to baring the midriff as a way to focus on another attribute that sets apart the "ideal" woman from the others.

By: MartinWisse

MartinWisse — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 03:44:10 -0800

In the future fantasy armor will be a transparent force field which only works on skin that isn't covered by other clothing. Adam Warren to the white courtesy phone please. straight guys, what is up with the midriff thing? A well turned out stomach is just sexy and nice -- don't pretend it's just straight guys who think that either.

By: unigolyn

unigolyn — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 04:55:06 -0800

Sorry, but what the hell? He's comparing Red Sonja to Conan and saying that while both are nearly naked, Conan isn't "meant to be armored", while Red Sonja is wearing a plate bikini. They're both barbarians, and the traditional fantasy barbarian is barely clothed. I don't see why Red Sonja shouldn't be half naked, but Conan can be half naked. Same goes for the night elf. Night elves do not wear heavy armor, as they're more about stealth than open combat. Again, this happens for both sexes. Male night elf demon hunters also wear next to nothing. Night elves are supposed to evoke a sort of "civilized tribalism", and they are deliberately half-naked and tattooed to give off a Papuan warrior vibe (while the visual design and ornamentation is more celtic/asian fusion). That's not to say dumb plate bikinis don't exist, it's just that the two cases given by the author are not good examples of that.

By: crunchland

crunchland — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 05:04:00 -0800

There's a reason why they call the genre fantasy role-playing.

By: unigolyn

unigolyn — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 05:04:45 -0800

This thread seems as good an opportunity as any to ask: straight guys, what is up with the midriff thing? It accentuates the hourglass of chest/hips, mostly. The bare skin probably also helps a bit, but the hourglass thing is the main reason.

By: emmtee

emmtee — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 05:13:27 -0800

Those are all really good answers to an utterly incoherent early morning question, so thanks!

By: EmpressCallipygos

EmpressCallipygos — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 06:22:57 -0800

Y'know, this has raised an interesting side question for me. Actual armor -- as in, I've-seen-it-with-my-own-eyes-in-the-Metropolitan-Museum-of-Art armor -- often features a pronounced male codpiece. Sometimes these codpieces are rather obvious and prominent. So -- to what purpose? Someone upthread said that women's boobs can squish into a breast plate -- well, can't a guy's junk squish (well, maybe gently) into a pair of armor legs? Wouldn't sticking your junk into a separate pocket like that make it more of a target? At the very least, wasn't it uncomfortable? Why would you do that? Then again, if this was only to be found on ceremonial armor -- the equivalent of "dress whites" in the navy or something, where you have a ceremonial uniform that you don't actually fight in -- then that WOULD make sense, because it'd be a way to call attention to "Lo, I am manly!" So then I guess the question is -- IS this something only found on ceremonial armor? Anyway. Just some questions this prompted.

By: Kid Charlemagne

Kid Charlemagne — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 06:47:43 -0800

Also, I don't know about you, but mine squish just fine into a regular chest plate. So, legitimate question here about, uh, the rubber meeting the road. When I take a blow to the part of my chest where the curve of my breastplate matches the curve of my chest and it's just 1/2 inch of gambeson and then me in there, IT STINGS LIKE HELL! And that's just undeveloped upper torso real estate - not some place where I'm keeping a bunch of nerve endings, lymph nodes* or other glands. So, uh, isn't some room in there a good idea? *The most pain I've ever caused a fellow human being in the name of fun was when I nailed a friend in the mostly unarmoured arm pit, in that big bank of lymphatic tissue. For a little while there I was afraid an ambulance was going to be in order.

By: Vindaloo

Vindaloo — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 07:14:04 -0800

In fantasy it doesn't matter what the armour looks like, because you have healing potions. However, for those doing real life re-enactments then the functionality is hugely important, and that is where the usual fantasy standard breaks down, hard. What this post aims to do is bridge the gap between the two in order to increase the immersion aspect when indulging in your favourite fantasy media. As far as videogames are concerned I feel there is not enough option, if the best suit of armour (stat-wise) has a bare-midriff plus bikini then that is what you are going to wear, there is no covering option, which is unfortunate.

By: Kid Charlemagne

Kid Charlemagne — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:30:42 -0800

By and large I think the giant armor codpieces are for tournament (where all kinds of wacky shit went on*) or worn very late when the guys who were of rank and title could stand in the back and tell everyone how big their dick was. That said, if you look at this piece of pure function-following sexiness (the helmet is not original equipment) you'll note there is pretty minimal armor over the crotch, but that we are missing pieces that attach to the bottom of the fauld. In every other place where you wouldn't want an arrow, lance or sword to be stuck into, there is a stop rib that directs things away from said squishyness. In the case of the crotch, each lame of the fauld is over the one above it, which is going to catch things that come down (catching things is not, typically, what you want) but in doing so, it will direct the point around the waist and not into the crotch. One assumes the missing bits would be of similar design. The other thing worth pointing out about the avant harness is that the front of the breast plate sticks out a couple inches past the front of the helmet in a big lazy dome. I'm a 310 lbs. barrel chested type who was not born into the estate where my raison d'etre was to train for battle and my stomach does not really proceed my nose at all. This suggests to me that the people who made this harness thought that some extra room in there was important for some reason and just squishing them in there is probably suboptimal in much the same way that men's and women's jeans aren't the exact same pattern. This is not to say that dual delta rocket nosecones makes any kind of sense (unless you are of rank and title sufficient that you can stand in the back and tell everyone how big your boobs are). *In Rene d'Anjou's book of the tournament there is one guy whose helmet crest is, near as I can tell, the severed head of John the Baptist, being held by the hair from an arm attached to the helmet itself. (He's by the left leg of the red gallery in a red and yellow surcote facing the guy with a red hound crest. If that head doesn't swing free by the hair, I'm sad.

By: shakespeherian

shakespeherian — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:14:30 -0800

He's comparing Red Sonja to Conan and saying that while both are nearly naked, Conan isn't "meant to be armored", while Red Sonja is wearing a plate bikini. They're both barbarians, and the traditional fantasy barbarian is barely clothed. I don't see why Red Sonja shouldn't be half naked, but Conan can be half naked. I think the issue is: why the hell is the bikini plate metal? That implies that it's for protection, which makes no sense.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:32:21 -0800

Wouldn't nomadic barbarians be wearing more animal pelts? Metal seems like something they would steal, not make.

By: Decani

Decani — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:46:00 -0800

I may be crazy, but I have this wild notion that the "designers" of fantasy female armour are not particularly concerned with how realistic or effective it would be in a non-fantasy arena.

By: EmpressCallipygos

EmpressCallipygos — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:49:29 -0800

By and large I think the giant armor codpieces are for tournament (where all kinds of wacky shit went on*) or worn very late when the guys who were of rank and title could stand in the back and tell everyone how big their dick was. I kind of suspected, but thanks for the exhaustive comment! And I have a related followup -- I get that it's dress armor, but would you know if the codpiece was...functional? (Meaning, did they actually insert their schlongs into the codpiece part, or was it just decorative?)

By: lovecrafty

lovecrafty — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 10:50:29 -0800

Oh, I have to stop reading the comments on that Nerds and Male Privilege article.

By: ArkhanJG

ArkhanJG — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 11:28:07 -0800

Codpieces were just decorative, in either cloth or armour. They were increasingly popular in tudor england. They started out as a piece of concealing cloth, as hemlines of tops rose, leaving just the undies at the front (male hose was in two leg pieces, bit like stockings today). They then evolved to emphasise, rather than conceal, culminating in a full metal codpiece, rather similar to a strap on dildo. Generally, the actual junk was tucked out of the way in the linen undies, though there may have been some who ahem, liked the extra roominess.

By: Kid Charlemagne

Kid Charlemagne — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 12:31:46 -0800

I think there are some joined hosen where the codpiece covers a gap in the front, but in that sense we're talking a triangle of cloth rather than any of the more fanciful constructs. There was still another layer (or two) back there, but it was better than having to unlace something.

By: Mitheral

Mitheral — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:34:31 -0800

Justinian writes "But as he points out, just tripping in boobplate is dangerous. You could easily crack your sternum." This seems like a really low risk, when was the last time you fell and landed on your chest? Usually you catch yourself with your hands.

By: Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish

Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish — Mon, 19 Dec 2011 21:46:36 -0800

When was the last time you were in a swordfight? The owner of the boobplate in question wears it in situations that, while not life-or-death combat, could surely result in her getting knocked to the ground both hard and unexpectedly.

By: BurnChao

BurnChao — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 01:34:57 -0800

This seems like a really low risk, when was the last time you fell and landed on your chest? Snowboarding on Black Friday. Had to go to the emergency room. Nothing broken, but I'm still in pain. Not as bad now, but it first hurt worse than the time that I did broke a rib. But with all silliness aside, I don't think I would've been hurt as badly if I had been wearing breastplate or boobplate. Distribution of force and all that. F = m/A, yada yada yada...

By: EmpressCallipygos

EmpressCallipygos — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 04:06:01 -0800

Justinian writes "But as he points out, just tripping in boobplate is dangerous. You could easily crack your sternum." This seems like a really low risk, when was the last time you fell and landed on your chest? Usually you catch yourself with your hands. Huh, I thought he was implying the danger was more like "sword strikes protruberant boob, curve of boob guides sword direct to center of chest, force of sword is this shifted straight to sternum, sternum cracks."

By: Mitheral

Mitheral — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 07:01:37 -0800

The original article says: I worry constantly that she's going to fall hard and it will crack her sternum, even with the padding.
before enumerating the force deflection problem.

By: EmpressCallipygos

EmpressCallipygos — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 07:18:39 -0800

I stand corrected. Thanks.

By: IAmBroom

IAmBroom — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 10:49:55 -0800

EmpressCallipygos: And I have a related followup -- I get that it's dress armor, but would you know if the codpiece was...functional? (Meaning, did they actually insert their schlongs into the codpiece part, or was it just decorative?) ArkhanJG: Codpieces were just decorative, in either cloth or armour. They were increasingly popular in tudor england. They started out as a piece of concealing cloth, as hemlines of tops rose, leaving just the undies at the front (male hose was in two leg pieces, bit like stockings today). They then evolved to emphasise, rather than conceal, culminating in a full metal codpiece, rather similar to a strap on dildo. Generally, the actual junk was tucked out of the way in the linen undies, though there may have been some who ahem, liked the extra roominess. GODDDDDAMMMITTTTT!!!!! There's FINALLY a question on Metafilter about my hobby research specialty - medieval underwear - and someone beats me to the punch with an unflappable (heh), complete answer. Obviously, I'm spending too much time at work doing work. What's that, Mr. Boss? Sure, I'll see you in your office... Just gotta finish typing this... Bring my ID badge and computer password?

By: Justinian

Justinian — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 11:01:28 -0800

I stand corrected. Thanks. It's pretty easy to visualize with a thought experiment. Would you rather fall forward onto a flat surface (analogous to correctly fitted plate) or onto a wedge pointed upward into the center of your chest, as with boobplate. All that force is transmitted onto a small area over your sternum. CRACK.

By: Artw

Artw — Tue, 20 Dec 2011 11:07:07 -0800

Needs crumple zones.