Not lost in translation
December 21, 2011 4:55 AM Subscribe
In an article published in the latest issue of Dutch fashion magazine Jackie, the magazine offers a little advice on how to dress like Rihanna without looking like the “ultimate niggerbitch.” That’s right. No typo there.
This post was deleted for the following reason: This is a pretty thin outragefilter sort of thing. -- taz
Actually it says "nigga", not "nigger".
This is a dumb tempest in a teapot, a case of a European "journalist" of less than stellar intelligence using a word that's bandied about in "urban" culture left and right, without realizing how horrifically faux pas it is.
If your intent is to somehow show that the Dutch are intolerant towards black people, please.
posted by unigolyn at 5:03 AM on December 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
This is a dumb tempest in a teapot, a case of a European "journalist" of less than stellar intelligence using a word that's bandied about in "urban" culture left and right, without realizing how horrifically faux pas it is.
If your intent is to somehow show that the Dutch are intolerant towards black people, please.
posted by unigolyn at 5:03 AM on December 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
I find it very hard to believe that the *N word* "slipped through the fingers" of the editor-in-chief, as well as the (at the very least) 5 or 6 other people who at least glanced at the article and its 72-point font title before printing.
posted by kuanes at 5:05 AM on December 21, 2011
posted by kuanes at 5:05 AM on December 21, 2011
And now, like some action potential on neurons in the brain of the collective unconscious, this will spread far and wide, with many expressing various opinions, lazy journalists will copy paste into their respective periodicals, and this magazine that held little importance outside of its country will suddenly be under the public scrutiny.
Why?
Because Americans want nothing more than the excuse to type "ultimate niggerbitch." They'll put it in quotes, they'll dash it out, they'll be coy about it, but deep down... many Americans miss the day they could say whatever words they want without fear of appearing as ignorant as they are.
posted by Bathtub Bobsled at 5:06 AM on December 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Why?
Because Americans want nothing more than the excuse to type "ultimate niggerbitch." They'll put it in quotes, they'll dash it out, they'll be coy about it, but deep down... many Americans miss the day they could say whatever words they want without fear of appearing as ignorant as they are.
posted by Bathtub Bobsled at 5:06 AM on December 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
I have had only limited experience with the Dutch, I met a couple at Obirin Daigaku who were studying abroad like I was.
But, that experience leads me to be completely unsurprised that the magazine in question is Dutch.
The stereotype of the Dutch as very nice, but horribly racist, applied perfectly in the case of the three Dutch men I knew personally. All of them would have thought the headline was funny, and wouldn't have seen why anyone would be even slightly upset.
posted by sotonohito at 5:06 AM on December 21, 2011
But, that experience leads me to be completely unsurprised that the magazine in question is Dutch.
The stereotype of the Dutch as very nice, but horribly racist, applied perfectly in the case of the three Dutch men I knew personally. All of them would have thought the headline was funny, and wouldn't have seen why anyone would be even slightly upset.
posted by sotonohito at 5:06 AM on December 21, 2011
Has anyone ever heard that term used in a fashion sense in America?
Anyway, the end of the story goes like so (on Twitter):
Editor in chief: "Eh, it was a joke."
Rihanna: "Fuck you Eva!"
Editor in chief: "Well then! I quit!"
posted by carsonb at 5:06 AM on December 21, 2011
Anyway, the end of the story goes like so (on Twitter):
Editor in chief: "Eh, it was a joke."
Rihanna: "Fuck you Eva!"
Editor in chief: "Well then! I quit!"
posted by carsonb at 5:06 AM on December 21, 2011
I honestly do not think Rhianna would be upset about this. My wife, who is half-black, assures me this is true and is insisting that I call her "niggabitch" the rest of the day.
posted by holdkris99 at 5:07 AM on December 21, 2011
posted by holdkris99 at 5:07 AM on December 21, 2011
They'll go so far as to wax philosophic without RTFA too...
/me
posted by Bathtub Bobsled at 5:07 AM on December 21, 2011
/me
posted by Bathtub Bobsled at 5:07 AM on December 21, 2011
Nigga, alstublieft!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:07 AM on December 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:07 AM on December 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
but what if i want to dress like that
posted by This, of course, alludes to you at 5:08 AM on December 21, 2011
posted by This, of course, alludes to you at 5:08 AM on December 21, 2011
Also, as gjc first pointed out, there is a world of difference between niggabitch and niggerbitch
posted by holdkris99 at 5:08 AM on December 21, 2011
posted by holdkris99 at 5:08 AM on December 21, 2011
The Dutch also have Zwarte Piet, Santa's black servant, usually portrayed by white people wearing blackface. I don't think it is malicious, but it is deeply uncool and reflects an ignorance about race relations.
posted by snofoam at 5:08 AM on December 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by snofoam at 5:08 AM on December 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
The stereotype of the Dutch as very nice, but horribly racist, applied perfectly in the case of the three Dutch men I knew personally. All of them would have thought the headline was funny, and wouldn't have seen why anyone would be even slightly upset.
Well then it's obvious. We should clearly condemn the entire Dutch people based on your limited three person interaction.
posted by Fizz at 5:09 AM on December 21, 2011 [4 favorites]
Well then it's obvious. We should clearly condemn the entire Dutch people based on your limited three person interaction.
posted by Fizz at 5:09 AM on December 21, 2011 [4 favorites]
this looks like a good opportunity for Americans to enlighten Euros about proper race relations
posted by Greener Backyards at 5:12 AM on December 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Greener Backyards at 5:12 AM on December 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Slang must be hard for them to get right. You start with some words that come from one specific American subculture. Those words make their way into the wider consciousness, taking on different resonances as they do so, then travel across the Altantic to a country where people use english a lot, but have a somewhat different youth culture, a different racial mix, and different perceptions of what is offensive. And on top of that you've got adults writing a magazine for teenagers and trying to use language that will make the writers sound like peers to the readers.
With all that, it's amazing that this sort of cultural car wreck doesn't happen every day.
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 5:13 AM on December 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
With all that, it's amazing that this sort of cultural car wreck doesn't happen every day.
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 5:13 AM on December 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
many Americans miss the day they could say whatever words they want without fear of appearing as ignorant as they are.
Really? I agree that this story will spread like wildfire in the US, but I think the desire for page hits will far outweigh the desire to finally return to those golden years when you could type niggabitch without consequence.
posted by holdkris99 at 5:14 AM on December 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
Really? I agree that this story will spread like wildfire in the US, but I think the desire for page hits will far outweigh the desire to finally return to those golden years when you could type niggabitch without consequence.
posted by holdkris99 at 5:14 AM on December 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
I don't think it is malicious, but it is deeply uncool and reflects an ignorance about race relations.
No thanks, we don't want race relation lessons from Americans.
posted by unigolyn at 5:14 AM on December 21, 2011 [5 favorites]
No thanks, we don't want race relation lessons from Americans.
posted by unigolyn at 5:14 AM on December 21, 2011 [5 favorites]
This looks like a good opportunity for dry sarcasm to be horribly misconstrued and result in a tiresome argument
posted by bwerdmuller at 5:17 AM on December 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by bwerdmuller at 5:17 AM on December 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
MetaFilter: This looks like a good opportunity for dry sarcasm to be horribly misconstrued and result in a tiresome argument
Fixed.
posted by Fizz at 5:18 AM on December 21, 2011
Fixed.
posted by Fizz at 5:18 AM on December 21, 2011
This post probably could have been tagged a little better.
posted by holdkris99 at 5:21 AM on December 21, 2011
posted by holdkris99 at 5:21 AM on December 21, 2011
Dutch Fashion Magazine looks for, and finds publicity.
posted by blue_beetle at 5:23 AM on December 21, 2011
posted by blue_beetle at 5:23 AM on December 21, 2011
gjc: "It says "niggabitch". Whether it makes sense or not, "nigga" and "nigger" are two different words with different meanings depending on who is saying it, how they are said and in what context."
Whether or not you agree with this statement, the "bitch" part of it is pretty unequivocally clear.
posted by mkultra at 5:23 AM on December 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
Whether or not you agree with this statement, the "bitch" part of it is pretty unequivocally clear.
posted by mkultra at 5:23 AM on December 21, 2011 [2 favorites]
No thanks, we don't want race relation lessons from Americans.
I don't think knee-jerk anti-Americanism is really helpful in this area. The US is much more racially diverse than anywhere in Europe, and for all our problems, we've also made some pretty big strides. I think in general western Europe is more progressive than the US in many or most areas, but race relations would be my biggest exception.
posted by snofoam at 5:23 AM on December 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
I don't think knee-jerk anti-Americanism is really helpful in this area. The US is much more racially diverse than anywhere in Europe, and for all our problems, we've also made some pretty big strides. I think in general western Europe is more progressive than the US in many or most areas, but race relations would be my biggest exception.
posted by snofoam at 5:23 AM on December 21, 2011 [1 favorite]
No thanks, we don't want race relation lessons from Americans.
In all fairness, there are lots and lots of Americans who, having actually worked through a lot of racial issues in America that have yet to be addressed in many European countries. So when you say "from Americans", you should consider that there are probably many, many more Americans who have spent a lot more time and energy thinking about and confronting racial issues than you'll find in most (if not all) European countries.
Not to mention the fact that "Americans" includes, um, lots of non-whites. Are they included in the list of Americans whose opinions you don't want to consider?
Just curious.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:24 AM on December 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
In all fairness, there are lots and lots of Americans who, having actually worked through a lot of racial issues in America that have yet to be addressed in many European countries. So when you say "from Americans", you should consider that there are probably many, many more Americans who have spent a lot more time and energy thinking about and confronting racial issues than you'll find in most (if not all) European countries.
Not to mention the fact that "Americans" includes, um, lots of non-whites. Are they included in the list of Americans whose opinions you don't want to consider?
Just curious.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:24 AM on December 21, 2011 [3 favorites]
The stereotype of the Dutch as very nice, but horribly racist
So, so true. Not so much racist as would join the KKK, but racist in the sense that somebody who'd lived their whole lives in a small village in Somerset without ever having seen a Black face other than on telly can be, as in completely clueless why their "funny" Paki jokes backfire. Dutch racism is largely unexamined and Dutch racial relations are on the whole about twenty-thirty years behind the UK or US, even with the vast problems these countries still have.
posted by MartinWisse at 5:24 AM on December 21, 2011
So, so true. Not so much racist as would join the KKK, but racist in the sense that somebody who'd lived their whole lives in a small village in Somerset without ever having seen a Black face other than on telly can be, as in completely clueless why their "funny" Paki jokes backfire. Dutch racism is largely unexamined and Dutch racial relations are on the whole about twenty-thirty years behind the UK or US, even with the vast problems these countries still have.
posted by MartinWisse at 5:24 AM on December 21, 2011
Sorry about the skewed grammar in the first sentence of my comment above...
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:25 AM on December 21, 2011
posted by flapjax at midnite at 5:25 AM on December 21, 2011
Whether or not you agree with this statement, the "bitch" part of it is pretty unequivocally clear.
Really? To hear my wife and her friends use that as an ultimate term of endearment. Of course, that's different than it being in an ad. It seems clear that the context here is "Rhianna is a kick ass black woman, if you want to dress like her, here is how." I don't think there is any malicious intent in the ad. The post and how it is worded is another story.
posted by holdkris99 at 5:29 AM on December 21, 2011
holdkris99: Turns out Rihanna minds VERY much:
http://marquee.blogs.cnn.com/2011/12/20/rihanna-responds-to-slur-in-dutch-magazine/
posted by Nattie at 5:29 AM on December 21, 2011
http://marquee.blogs.cnn.com/2011/12/20/rihanna-responds-to-slur-in-dutch-magazine/
posted by Nattie at 5:29 AM on December 21, 2011
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posted by gjc at 5:03 AM on December 21, 2011 [5 favorites]