Whatever, marriage is overrated anyway

January 10, 2012 9:19 PM

Shit Girls Say to Gay Guys
posted by Blazecock Pileon (150 comments total)

This meme seems to be a clearinghouse for just how culturally insensitive people are, particularly when they get to know somebody just enough to think they have a pass to say whatever they want to. Another example: Shit Christians Say to Jews.

Since my link is the only thing I have direct experience with, I will note that this video is exceeding gentle. I have heard much worse as a matter of course.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 9:25 PM on January 10 [5 favorites]

I was prepared to hate this, but there were at least three things in that video which I've heard in real life, and I'm, like, the least "gay" gay guy ever.

"Why can't I just date you"... oh jeez. PTSD territory there.
posted by hippybear at 9:28 PM on January 10 [23 favorites]

Whatever faults it has are redeemed by how GOOD the actor is.
posted by unSane at 9:31 PM on January 10 [10 favorites]

OMG her wig was adore.
posted by heyho at 9:32 PM on January 10 [5 favorites]

Sad but true. And hilarious.
posted by blucevalo at 9:34 PM on January 10 [1 favorite]

I am a woman, have gay guy friends, and I have never said ANY of these things, ever. I hate these things.
posted by sweetkid at 9:35 PM on January 10 [5 favorites]

I'm waiting for the "Shit the Internet Says To Girls" video.

FEMALE ACTOR WITH CARDBOARD COMPUTER MONITOR ON HEAD:
"You're not very smart or perceptive."
"You think we're great friends, but I'm not sure how I tolerate you."
"No really, I'm going to mock you in another Youtube video."
posted by the jam at 9:39 PM on January 10 [77 favorites]

I am a woman, have gay guy friends,

heh
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 9:42 PM on January 10 [2 favorites]

I'm waiting for the "Shit the Internet Says To Girls" video.

I'm just waiting for the "Shit the Internet Says To Valley Girls". The accent is interestingly uniform through the meme.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:43 PM on January 10 [5 favorites]

I don't know anyone who has ever talked like that to me ever.


I should be happy?
posted by The Whelk at 9:43 PM on January 10 [4 favorites]

I don't know anyone who has ever talked like that to me ever.

shut up, betch.

(checkmark on your bucket list, whelk)
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 9:46 PM on January 10 [4 favorites]

It's really sad just how often I hear people say these things to their male gay friends—I mean, I guess I'm biased because I play for the other team too, so all of my guy friends are constantly asking me if I think -insertrandomgirlhere- is hot when she walks by, and that bothers me, but there's less "Shit guys say to lesbians" than there is for this one in my experience. Sad.
posted by linzenoonoo at 9:46 PM on January 10 [1 favorite]

I'm pretty sick of the "Shit [blank] says to [blank]" meme, but this was actually not bad. It got painfully annoying after about 30 seconds, so I skipped over much of it, but I recognize the (sad) truth in a lot of these lines.
posted by asnider at 9:46 PM on January 10

Extremely funny, but... it sounds more like "shit annoying girls say to gay guys." I've spent time with a lot of these girls in my life, but that was because they had wonderful lady parts that I was interested in. WTF reason do gay guys have for putting up with that nonsense?
posted by GooseOnTheLoose at 9:47 PM on January 10 [1 favorite]

I don't know anyone who has ever talked like that to me ever.

My partner has a friend from DC who moved out here to Seattle last year, and she still talks that way with him. A bit catty. Perhaps a little less than when we first started dating, though. Thankfully.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:48 PM on January 10

As a WASP, I have many jewish friends

wait, where am I?

As the early-20th century Earl of Grantham, I have many servant friends
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 9:48 PM on January 10 [22 favorites]

Ick. Get away from me, straight female idiot. I will so punch you.

I honestly can't remember this ever happening to me in my young-outedness. Circa 1983. My friends weren't the mall-shopping type anyway, they were more the "thank god you've figured it out" type. I feel for the kids who have to put up with this shit.
posted by wallabear at 9:49 PM on January 10

Perhaps a little less than when we first started dating, though. Thankfully.

She's also very sweet, especially when she isn't leaving her parking brake off and letting her car roll down the hill into our garage door.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:51 PM on January 10 [1 favorite]

I'm waiting for the "Shit the Internet Says To Girls" video.

related
posted by LogicalDash at 9:53 PM on January 10

WTF reason do gay guys have for putting up with that nonsense?

Because there's something about having a good woman friend which is less catty and easier to be with than gay men who would say (some) similar things. Because many gay men have discovered that they can be close friends with a woman (or women) as opposed to trying to pretend to get along with the uptight and always homo-paranoid straight men one encounters in daily life. Because, because, because.

FWIW, I don't know any gay men over the age of, say, 35 or 40 who still have this kind of woman friend in their life, unless they are the type who don't say this kind of thing, or unless they are the type who have worked beyond all this early bullshit and have moved beyond the "oh, he's just one of the girls!" status into deep friendship. It's a thing from earlier in gay life, and it's an interesting phase to go through. But it doesn't last, because unless the friendship has something more at its core, it will eventually whither and die.
posted by hippybear at 9:53 PM on January 10 [13 favorites]

and I'm, like, the least "gay" gay guy ever.

I challenge that statement, in fact, I challenge you, sir, to a duel!

My weapon: *kisses at dawn*

What say you?

[OK. I think I just lost. But what the heck.]
posted by wallabear at 9:56 PM on January 10 [17 favorites]

One of my friends and I have had a running "all the best guys are gaaaaay/why can't I just date yooooooou" joke for 20 years, after one too many nights of me getting drunk and crying in his kitchen over the state of my love life in college.
posted by scody at 9:57 PM on January 10

I willing to suffer the avalanche of horrid "What X says to Y" videos if, in exchange, we as a human species agree to replace the phrase "Fag Hag" with "Fruit Fly."
posted by Panjandrum at 9:58 PM on January 10 [57 favorites]

(oh, and it's always followed by "whatever, if we're both still single when we're old, we'll marry each other. Deal?")
posted by scody at 9:59 PM on January 10 [3 favorites]

wallabear: you're on! I can draw that weapon faster than you.
posted by hippybear at 10:04 PM on January 10 [1 favorite]

This and the shit white girls say to black girls are the best.

So far.
posted by bardic at 10:04 PM on January 10 [3 favorites]

If I owned a cat and a dog, I could make one of these videos and rack up so many viewcounts by now...
posted by Apocryphon at 10:05 PM on January 10 [1 favorite]

I prefer gal pal to anyone being called a hag or a fruit. Just a preference.
posted by heyho at 10:05 PM on January 10

if a meme includes the words "shit" and "say", can we just do a quick ban and get it over with?
posted by HuronBob at 10:06 PM on January 10 [4 favorites]

"Fag Hag" with "Fruit Fly."

If it makes you feel any better, I am absolutely going to use that from here on out.

Also, hippybear, saying all guys are homophobic is the same as saying all women are as annoying as this video is the same as saying all of the gays are (thisway). Friendship doesn't rely on sexual attraction. I would hope everyone would exploit the hell out of that.
posted by GooseOnTheLoose at 10:09 PM on January 10 [2 favorites]

Don't say these things to Disappointing Gay Best Friend.
posted by adso at 10:12 PM on January 10 [11 favorites]

The accent is interestingly uniform through the meme.

Needs more vocal fry.
posted by dhartung at 10:12 PM on January 10 [2 favorites]

Sorry, I didn't mean to say ALL guys are homophobic.

My experience with the non-gay men I meet in life is that about 75% of the ones who are willing to be friends with a gay man are homo-paranoid, but that isn't necessarily homophobic. They're perfectly happy to be friends with a gay man until there's any rumor from outside that they, themselves, might be gay because of the friendship. Then things change in the friendship, and rarely for the better.

That's just my experience. I make no claims that it would be a universal truth.

I think the point of that is that there is a layer of bullshit within the culture about whether men can be friends with gay men and what that means above and beyond any personal attitudes toward gay men themselves on behalf of men.
posted by hippybear at 10:17 PM on January 10 [6 favorites]

I'm torn. While a lot of it is inexcusable, some of the behavior demonstrated in these videos is the result of ignorance, not malice. And as the jam noted above, surely there's a kinder way of telling the white/straight/Christian/mainstream girl that she is not only being rude, but making herself look like a fool. If you find the speaker so trying, why be politely silent?

On the other hand, these are a great learning tool. Yeah, they make me feel like an awful person for things I said years ago not knowing any better, but they also make me feel like an awful person for things I haven't said yet and now will not say. They make me realize my prejudices and while I can't always immediately change those, at least being aware of them and trying to change them makes me a better person. I hope.
posted by maryr at 10:23 PM on January 10 [2 favorites]

I remember wanting to be gay so that girls would hang out with me.
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 10:29 PM on January 10 [4 favorites]

Is 'betch' an Internet-wide Kelly reference, or is it something that people say? I've never heard anyone say bitch like betch except for Kelly.
posted by winna at 10:29 PM on January 10 [7 favorites]

On the other hand, these are a great learning tool. Yeah, they make me feel like an awful person for things I said years ago not knowing any better, but they also make me feel like an awful person for things I haven't said yet and now will not say. They make me realize my prejudices and while I can't always immediately change those, at least being aware of them and trying to change them makes me a better person. I hope.

Haha, oh man.

It's ok!

Do not feel like an awful person because clearly you aren't.

Also, for many young gay guys, their sometimes-clueless straight female friends were pretty much the only things keeping them from killing themselves in high school. So you know - thanks for being friends with folks like my boyfriend, because I'm not sure what I'd be doing with myself if I'd never met him.

Things like this are complicated, and the annoyance and occasional anger in this video are all tied up with real affection. That's where the humor comes from.
posted by kavasa at 10:30 PM on January 10 [21 favorites]

Shit redditers say to Mefites.
posted by babbyʼ); Drop table users; -- at 10:34 PM on January 10 [10 favorites]

This one is good. The good ones highlight how important quality performances and editing are in humor. The weak ones often have fine material but don't quite get how to put it together into a successful package.
posted by wemayfreeze at 10:54 PM on January 10

I wonder who will win the "I'm more offended" contest on this one...
posted by hellslinger at 10:58 PM on January 10

I am waiting for "Shit Westerners say to Armenians" and "Shit French transvestites say to bi-cutious Jews".
posted by Meatbomb at 11:27 PM on January 10 [11 favorites]

shit i say:

shit
posted by This, of course, alludes to you at 11:27 PM on January 10

I'll just leave this here.
posted by ArmyOfKittens at 11:28 PM on January 10 [48 favorites]

This one is good. The good ones highlight how important quality performances and editing are in humor. The weak ones often have fine material but don't quite get how to put it together into a successful package.

I think you described most of the great vs. okay things in the entire world.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 11:31 PM on January 10 [2 favorites]

ArmyOfKittens: "I'll just leave this here."

That was wonderful. Thank you.
posted by jiawen at 12:04 AM on January 11

That girl needs to see someone about her chin hair.
posted by From Bklyn at 12:12 AM on January 11 [2 favorites]

It missed out this "you're not really gay", which my friend (who I guarantee, looked even less "gay" than Hippybear) got from our female friends all.the.time.

I've had gay guys lament to me that all the good ones are 'straight or taken' so it's not just the women who use that one.

ArmyOfKittens: thanks for posting that. (I've definitely thought the 'brave' one, though I don't think I've said it. The 'have you had the surgery?' question - I'm guessing that's problematic because not all trans people would have surgery? Or because it's a really intrusive question? Sorry, I'm clueless on this one).
posted by Infinite Jest at 12:22 AM on January 11

Infinite Jest: "I'm guessing that's problematic because not all trans people would have surgery? Or because it's a really intrusive question? Sorry, I'm clueless on this one."

All of the above. People seem to think "the surgery" (as if there's just one) is the be-all end-all of trans existence, like all trans people are defined by our relationship to it. Like we'd all want it, and like cis people have a right to know what's in our pants.
posted by jiawen at 12:38 AM on January 11 [11 favorites]

Shit I Say To My Cat:

Who's a kitty? You are! You're a kitty! Yes you are!

Izzums hungry?

Duzzums want out?

Duzzums want in?

Sleepy-time! Time for sleeps!

You are standing on my balls.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 12:39 AM on January 11 [128 favorites]

I've had gay guys lament to me that all the good ones are 'straight or taken' so it's not just the women who use that one.

Yeah, but you know 95+% really ARE straight or taken, so for us it's actually true!!!!!111

*not being bitterly serious at all*
posted by lewedswiver at 12:44 AM on January 11 [10 favorites]

+1 for that licking the foil top of the yogurt container. The subtle use of gestural vocabularies like that definitely adds to the truthiness of the video…
posted by LMGM at 12:52 AM on January 11 [11 favorites]

Shit shit say to shit.
posted by Sailormom at 1:05 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

I'm waiting for the "Shit the Internet Says To Girls" video.

That would probably be really depressing and horrible. I think it would start with TITS OR GTFO or maybe YOU MUST BE REALLY FAT OR SOMETHING and would get worse from there, maybe rounding out with YOU'RE REALLY OVERSENSITIVE.
posted by louche mustachio at 1:10 AM on January 11 [14 favorites]

jiawen: "People seem to think "the surgery" (as if there's just one) is the be-all end-all of trans existence, like all trans people are defined by our relationship to it. Like we'd all want it, and like cis people have a right to know what's in our pants."

In addition, many cis-authored narratives of trans lives (whether fictional or reported) view THE SURGERY as the pivot on which our identity turns. It's common for Jennifer FictionalTransLady to say something like, "And right there, in that hospital, was where I stopped being DudeMoustache and became Jennifer," and many newspapers take the same tack. Most trans lives don't work like that: I transitioned seven years before I ever set foot in a hospital for anything more than a blood test, and most of the women on recent Channel 4 transsexual-em-up My Transsexual Summer had yet to even decide if they wanted a vagina installed.

So, long story short, questions about THE SURGERY carry with them the implicit suggestion that we're not really who we say we are until we've bled, whether that is the questioner's intention or not.
posted by ArmyOfKittens at 1:18 AM on January 11 [17 favorites]

jiawen, ArmyOfKittens: thank you very much for those responses. I appreciate them.
posted by Infinite Jest at 2:29 AM on January 11

I'm guessing that's problematic because not all trans people would have surgery? Or because it's a really intrusive question? Sorry, I'm clueless on this one.

I'm struggling to imagine a context in which "So, do you have a cock?" is a good conversational gambit, unless you are about to climb into bed with someone and have in-bed-o-cock-o-phobia. Or you are a cock doctor.
posted by emilyw at 2:33 AM on January 11 [16 favorites]

Shit Sighted People Say.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 3:08 AM on January 11 [5 favorites]

Thanks emilyw: if it helps, I was more picturing a situation where the two people are friends (as in the girl/gay guy example, where they are friends but she is still saying clueless things) and had maybe discussed the trans person's situation previously - not so much "Oh, so you're trans? Have you had the operation???!!?" - because obviously that would be out of order.
posted by Infinite Jest at 3:12 AM on January 11

I'm struggling to imagine a context in which "So, do you have a cock?" is a good conversational gambit

Sometimes, you are trying to get a project put together, you know, like a cock casserole, and you realize that you forgot to go to the cock store earlier in the week, so you are about a half-cup short on the cocks you need for the recipe, and it's late, and the nearby cock store is closed, and it's a pretty long drive to the all-night place, and, yeah, you could probably come up with a cock substitute, but that would throw the whole thing off, so you go over to your friendly neighbor's knock on the door and ask "So, do you have a cock?" Because, after all, you loaned them some last week.

In that situation, I think it's OK.
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:23 AM on January 11 [7 favorites]

I'm struggling to imagine a context in which "So, do you have a cock?" is a good conversational gambit, unless you are about to climb into bed with someone and have in-bed-o-cock-o-phobia. Or you are a cock doctor.

sex store

chicken store

that's all I got
posted by the young rope-rider at 3:24 AM on January 11 [8 favorites]

Shit My Cat Says to Its Shit:

S'all right?


Shit My Cat's Shit Says to My Cat:

S'all right!
posted by TheSecretDecoderRing at 3:25 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

Shit Actors Say

worth it for Clay Davis.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 3:37 AM on January 11 [5 favorites]

I consider these girls progressive.

They have outed themselves as Shit Girls which is a big step.
posted by srboisvert at 3:41 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

I prefer gal pal to anyone being called a hag or a fruit. Just a preference.

I have been called a stag hag in the past, because of both my friendships with gay men and my flying through Russian airspace with a mortar and pestle.
posted by Sparx at 3:59 AM on January 11 [3 favorites]

Shit shit say to shit.

What's brown and sticky?
posted by biffa at 4:12 AM on January 11

I have long-standing, respectful, close friendships with a number of gay men, all of whom have long-standing, respectful, close friendships with a number of other women. We must be freaks.
posted by Summer at 4:21 AM on January 11

What's brown and sticky?

A stick
posted by talitha_kumi at 4:27 AM on January 11 [8 favorites]

Shit Retail Employees Say To Customers:

Good morning.

Can I help you find anything?

On your left, past the escalators.

Credit or debit?
posted by Faint of Butt at 4:31 AM on January 11

Shite Irish Girls Say
posted by Willfull at 4:33 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

OMG her wig

I'm fully prepared to be called out on this, but is "her" really the preferred pronoun here? I get that most drag queens (in character) would prefer to be referred to in the feminine, but what...uh...is the cutoff point?

My default pronoun for a gay guy would be "he/him/his" and to (unless otherwise instructed) embrace all things masculine.

And while I'm sure it's just a "my problem" I doubt it's restricted to myself only: what is the correct nomenclature for "she / her" pronouns vs. "he / his"?

Given my own inherited hard-line ideals of gender identity, I'd always (no doubt falsely) assumed that "vive le difference!" came with the territory, but as the borders begin to grey, it seems that fewer and fewer pronouns are as easily applicable as once thought.

I really like Metafilter, and fancy myself as someone who can roll with whatever changes come along, but I honestly find myself at a bit of a loss on how to proceed.

-signed, an hopeful advocate
posted by ShutterBun at 4:47 AM on January 11

flame dame!
posted by prefpara at 4:47 AM on January 11 [3 favorites]

I'll just leave this here

Oh god, I still remember the threads here on this very site where some people got soooo worked up about "cis". It was rather amazing and sad.
posted by kmz at 4:48 AM on January 11

You're not freaks. You're just not talking shit. That's a good thing!
posted by h00py at 4:48 AM on January 11

Talking shit can be the best thing of all, though. Right time, right place etc.
posted by h00py at 5:04 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

not so much "Oh, so you're trans? Have you had the operation???!!?" - because obviously that would be out of order.

My partner is trans, and here are some things people have said to me literally within moments of finding out:

"But, then how did you get pregnant?" [Me: "That's really personal." Her, a person I barely knew: "Oh, come on, you can tell me."]

"What does he look like...down there?"

"How do you have sex?"

And, of couse, multiple iterations of "Has he had THE SURGERY?"
posted by not that girl at 5:13 AM on January 11 [4 favorites]

How about, Shit I Was Too Much Of A Coward To Call You Out On At The Time But Am Now Going To Broadcast To Random Strangers All Over The Internet Now I'm Safely Out Of Your Sight?
posted by i_cola at 5:14 AM on January 11 [6 favorites]

Speaking of shit sighted people say. A long time ago I was talking to a guy in a really dark bar, and he was wearing pretty standard sunglasses. So I ask him "Isn't it hard to see with those sunglasses in this dark bar?" and he says "Of course it is hard to see, I'm blind"

True story.
posted by Ad hominem at 5:16 AM on January 11 [12 favorites]

To be fair, these truly clueless people are not a majority. I've only really had a handful of the truly clueless and insensitive over the years. Though they do tend to stand out in one's mind. The "has he had the surgery?" people I actually am pretty tolerant of, because that's a very common misconception fostered by popular media, that there is a single surgery and that it is the defnining things for transpeople. When I get that question, I politely explain that I'm not going to tell them something so personal about my partner, and then do a brief introduction to the idea that there are multiple surgical options and that individual transpeople make different decisions about which ones to pursue, if any.

If they ask the "real name" question, I simply reply that of course GuyName is his real name. And then they say, "Oh, you know what I mean..." and I say, "Yes, I know what you mean, and it's none of your business," or somehting like that.
posted by not that girl at 5:20 AM on January 11 [2 favorites]

I agree that this meme is tired and needs to go away, but Shit gay guys say to their cats is amazing.

Crazy cat people of all orientations will identify a little too much the video.
posted by raztaj at 5:25 AM on January 11 [17 favorites]

Faint of Butt: "Shit Retail Employees Say To Customers:"

Reminds me of the exciting manga comic I made with the exciting manga comic generator.
posted by ArmyOfKittens at 5:32 AM on January 11

Shit I Say To My Cat

"Point that thing somewhere else."

When I'm slumped down on the couch and she jumps on my chest for the Presentation of the Anus.
posted by Trurl at 5:41 AM on January 11 [7 favorites]

I think I'm experiencing déjà vu.

Metafilter: shit people say.
posted by clvrmnky at 5:47 AM on January 11

It's really sad just how often I hear people say these things to their male gay friends

Yes, people...I've had the weird "here, let me set you up with the only other gay man I know whom you have nothing in common with, but how would I notice that?" thing happen a few times, but it's always been by a straight man, not a woman. Progress, I guess?
posted by psoas at 6:18 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

You are standing on my balls.

That's shit I say to my dog. That and "Shit, get off me, it hurts like hell!"
posted by blucevalo at 6:54 AM on January 11

Shit people say to people they believe are in a group they have had little experience with? Things people often say due to ignorance of a particular persons motivations or challenges? Things people hear right before they fail to correct a popular misconception about a group and still wonder why they hear it all the time?

These don't roll off the tongue but I am thinking we can do better.

The dialog here regarding Cis and Trans interactions would be a good example of how we can start. Thank you for having the courage to ask and patience to answer.
posted by The Violet Cypher at 7:15 AM on January 11

I was more picturing a situation where the two people are friends

I have a reasonably large number of friends, both male and female. Some of them I have known for many many years, and some of them I am very close to.

In exactly none of those cases have I ever felt the need to ask them what their genitals look like.
posted by emilyw at 7:18 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

I suspect that the same "girls" who say dumb things to gay guys say dumb things to straight guys and old people and children, etc. etc. etc. Thoughtless wads say thoughtless things, and everybody is more annoyed by the things thoughtless wads say to them than by the things thoughtless wads say to everyone else. I would be happy to explain the shit people say to lawyers, or the shit people say to people who work in public media, and it's all the same people.
posted by Linda_Holmes at 7:24 AM on January 11 [2 favorites]

The Shit White Christian Girls Say to Jewish Girls is really good. I cringed a lot. I thought I had it bad with having to listen to girls ask me dumb question because I'm brown, but I guess the majority likes to alienate everybody with stupid questions.
posted by anniecat at 7:28 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

Linda_Holmes: "I would be happy to explain the shit people say to lawyers"

If I was a lawyer I'd put up with any amount of daft people saying daft things to me and just get on with enjoying my PILES OF MONEY.

I know nothing about lawyers. Do they have piles of money? Do they make beds out of it and sleep on it? Do they stuff pillows with money so they can hug money while they sleep on money? I DON'T KNOW.
posted by ArmyOfKittens at 7:35 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

Shit White Girls Say to Arab Girls.
posted by anniecat at 7:35 AM on January 11 [3 favorites]

The one thing I worry about with the reception of these videos (which I like a lot otherwise) has to do with a flaw in my own character and with the idea that social change happens predominantly at the level of language.

My character flaw is that I get really hung up on sussing out the rules - I love "stupid things people say, so don't say them" type stuff because I am always worried about accidentally saying stupid or cruel or just annoying things to people, especially people who already have to put up with a lot. But one thing I've realized recently is that I tend to get hung up on what not to say and somehow not progress to deeper relationships, caring, political action, life changes, etc. When in real life, I've observed that if you are there for someone and you say something dumb every once in a while, it's better than always saying the right thing but never having their back.

I think the videos are great because they will (hopefully) cut down on the random stupid and painful things that people have to put up with, thus giving marginalized folks more emotional energy for regular life and self-care and organizing and stuff. I also hope that those of us who are anxious not to say stupid shit can move on to other forms of solidarity/friendship/caring.
posted by Frowner at 7:39 AM on January 11 [8 favorites]

I'm really interested in the idea that videos like this are intended to "start a dialogue" or "help build awareness" and all that jazz. I love the videos, but I find it really jarring that the majority is so quick to take ownership of them. Straight girls, I don't think the video is for you. I think it's for other gay men like me. This guy basically made a documentary about interactions between me and my roommate, but would I ever show this video to her? Hell no. It's for me to laugh at, so I can blow off steam about how difficult it is to field her cluelessness.

I also don't particularly like the idea that by making this video, you're allowed to assume that people don't handle ignorance directed toward them with tact and grace. Like, "why don't you say something in the moment instead of making this video?" is a pretty judgmental statement. You don't know the dude who made this video, but I'm guessing from the insight it took to write and perform it, he's probably pretty smart and can think of a good way to rebut whatever is said to him in an appropriate manner. You're probably wrong to assume that every time someone says something dumb to him, he puts on a wig and repeats it back. In the real world, we have to think very carefully about how we respond to the shit people say; on YouTube, we can just laugh and give each other knowing looks and heave a sigh of relief that just this one time, we don't have to search desperately for a way to tell people that we're being marginalized without the discussion getting totally infuriating.
posted by Help, I can't stop talking! at 7:46 AM on January 11 [14 favorites]

What about shit that straight guys and girls say to other straight guys about their gay friends? I had a pretty good looking gay roommate for a couple of years, and was the go-to guy for the "why doesn't Johnny have a girlfriend?" question, offered time & time again sotto voce at parties. The :shockedface: when I said "because he's gay" was universal. Ask him your goddam self. Oh, you were wanting to pass judgement. Fuck off.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:50 AM on January 11 [3 favorites]

There's a Shit Gay Guys Say video as well and I don't think it's about "building awareness" or teachable moments. It's about indulging in and simultaneously laughing at and/or feeling smug about stereotypes. Same with the Shit Girls Say to Gay Guys as well, I suspect.
posted by blucevalo at 7:59 AM on January 11 [2 favorites]

kmz: "Oh god, I still remember the threads here on this very site where some people got soooo worked up about "cis". It was rather amazing and sad."

The line "I don't really identify as cis, and it makes me feel really marginalised when you call me that" made me laugh out loud, and I couldn't work out why for a second - yep, it reminded me of MetaFilter discussions on the matter.

ShutterBun: "OMG her wig

I'm fully prepared to be called out on this, but is "her" really the preferred pronoun here? I get that most drag queens (in character) would prefer to be referred to in the feminine, but what...uh...is the cutoff point?"

It depends on whether you think the video features an actor playing a woman or a man performing in drag, or both, and whether you're referring to the actor, the drag performer or the character. I'd use 'her' for everything but the actor.

I think the general rule is: use the pronoun that seems natural to you, and switch without commenting beyond 'Oh, sorry' if the person in question corrects you.

My biggest moment of appropriate pronoun confusion? Hanging out with a load of gay men who call each other and all other gay men 'she/her' and really having absolutely no idea whether I should follow suit as a not-as-gay man. (They're all 'ersatz nostalgia for 1950s Soho, permanently arched eyebrow' types so I probably should've just fluttered my ogleriahs and called them all omi-palones.)
posted by jack_mo at 8:05 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

'..culturally insensitive people are, particularly when they get to know somebody just enough to think they have a pass to say whatever they want to.'

I agree that some people can be rather crass generally speaking, but I guess that perception is relative to your collective experience with 'people.'

I also think 'people' are rather (too) sensitive, and that they're generally 'affected' by pretty much everything others say to them. If someone insults me or patronizes me, I tell them, and promptly let it go or have a good laugh about it.

How can you possibly go through life happily if you're constantly offering up the chance to dim your happiness to those willing and ready? Let fools be fools.
posted by CXXVII at 8:06 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

CXXVII, the "too sensitive" argument sort of neatly ignores all cultural context, and is marginalizing in and of itself. I'd encourage you to read this article on microaggressions that I think would really benefit your understanding of why it's not as easy as just letting it go.
posted by Help, I can't stop talking! at 8:11 AM on January 11 [3 favorites]

All these Shit X-group say to Y-group videos are like a window for me into a parallel universe in which people operate almost entirely on the basis of weird stereotypes and outdated conceptions of basic human interaction. They make me laugh, but they also genuinely baffle me, since I assume the creators are not making these things up entirely for comedic effect, meaning this stuff actually occurs in the 'real world'. It just doesn't reflect the way I know people -- gay, straight, men, women, of whatever race -- actually treat each other in real life. I guess I'm just lucky.
posted by modernnomad at 8:11 AM on January 11 [3 favorites]

I'm struggling to imagine a context in which "So, do you have a cock?" is a good conversational gambit, unless you are about to climb into bed with someone and have in-bed-o-cock-o-phobia.

Actually, as a friend of a friend who asked a women he about to climb into bed with if she was transsexual (although not in such polite terms), and then got run out of the room before he could grab his smartphone learned, it might not be a good idea, even then.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:16 AM on January 11

It just doesn't reflect the way I know people -- gay, straight, men, women, of whatever race -- actually treat each other in real life. I guess I'm just lucky.

Me either. The gay men I am friends with are my friends because I like them as individual people, not because I need a gay man to validate something about myself. That's what I get from this video, that straight women who are saying these things aren't friends with these men, but just looking for some sort of validation that they're not getting from straight men, other women, etc.
posted by sweetkid at 8:18 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

I'm really interested in the idea that videos like this are intended to "start a dialogue" or "help build awareness" and all that jazz. I love the videos, but I find it really jarring that the majority is so quick to take ownership of them. Straight girls, I don't think the video is for you. I think it's for other gay men like me. This guy basically made a documentary about interactions between me and my roommate, but would I ever show this video to her? Hell no. It's for me to laugh at, so I can blow off steam about how difficult it is to field her cluelessness.

Huh. That's a really interesting point. I've seen these mostly in activist contexts where they are specifically framed as "[cis/white/etc] people, these are the Dumb Things You Do and Say".

That is sort of a thing - maybe one of the things non-marginalized people find hardest to do is to step back and let things go without their comments or involvement, or to accept that inter-queer/inter-POC/etc conversations really need to happen without intrusions. Or the idea that an intra-group conversation means something to the group involved that may be opaque or irrelevant or incomprehensible to non-marginalized people.

I do think that one of the hazards of the internet is the ease of describing my experience - I saw these in activist contexts where they were clearly intended to educate! - as if it were the only experience or the best possible experience.

That was a really thought-provoking comment, thanks.
posted by Frowner at 8:31 AM on January 11 [2 favorites]

Shit I Say To My Kids:

"Could you tone it down?"
"Please chill out."
"Must you tear around the house like that?"
"If you cannot calm down then you need to go play outside."
"I have to get this done. Go do something quiet like draw at the table or read a book."
"Must you antagonize your brother?"
"If you can't get along, you can't play together."
"Stop making your sister scream like that! If she's screaming then you need to STOP what you are doing!"
"We have so many toys in this house and yet you want the one thing your brother is holding? Can't you find something else to play with?"
"If you're going to fight like that over it, then I am putting it away and no one can have it."
"Tell me with your words, not crying. I don't listen to crying."
"We use our words. We don't hit our friends."
"No biting!"
"If you're getting that upset over a video game, you need to turn it off. Games are supposed to be fun."
"You need to clean this room before you do anything else."
"Get those little pieces off the floor - the baby could choke on that!"
"If you're grabbing at your crotch then you need to go potty right now!"
"You're hungry? You just had a snack!"
"Don't put stickers on that!"
"I can't get you water while I'm nursing the baby. You have to WAIT."
"I only have two hands!"
"Get that out of your mouth!"
"SHHHHH! I'm on the PHONE!"
"I don't know where it is - you were the last one who had it."
"You actually have to lift things and look under things to find something. You can't just scan the room for ten seconds and say 'I can't find it'."
"You need to go potty before we leave, even if you don't think you have to go potty. Try anyway."
"Did you brush your teeth?"
"Come here and let me fix your hair."
"Those socks don't match. No, they don't. Stop trying to convince me that they do and go find a pair that match."
"No, you can't have gum - not after what happened the last time I gave you gum."
"How was school - did you behave?"
"It is not 'too cold' outside. It's only -2! You've been waiting for it to snow for a month! You can't get snow without cold! Go play!"
"What do you mean you don't like berries? You ate them yesterday!"
"Share. We take turns - it's her turn now."
"Hold my hand, please."
"I don't care, as long as you're quiet and don't fight."
"Work it out yourselves."
"I already said no. Stop asking."
"If you make me tell you again, I'm going to get upset."
"What on earth made you think that was a good idea?"
"Stop telling him what to do - you're not his parent."
"Get out of there right now."
"How many times have I told you!"
"You need to get a tissue."
"I am really tired of having to say this over and over."
"I cannot fit everyone in my lap at once."
"Yes, of course you can have a hug."
"You're my favorite [name of child] in the whole world."
"Thank you for listening."
"Thank you for doing that right away when I asked you."
"Wow! You worked really hard on that!"
"Yes, you can put it on the fridge."
"I like it when you are being helpful."
"Do you need a kiss to feel better?"
"You give the best hugs."
"Where did you learn how to be so funny?"
"I love you."
posted by flex at 8:38 AM on January 11 [16 favorites]

Things like this are complicated, and the annoyance and occasional anger in this video are all tied up with real affection. That's where the humor comes from.

This this this!

I honestly don't get the outrage at either these videos or the behaviors they mock. Well-done videos like this one seem like a perfectly enjoyable and funny way of blowing off steam (that is what a lot of humor is about, after all) and I also can't recall ever getting truly, deeply offended by well-meaning but stupid shit people have said to me regarding my being gay. Questions like "who's the man and who's the woman in bed?" might annoy me a bit, but I also find them quite amusing and they tell me a lot about the other person's way of thinking and frame of reference.

And for what it's worth, as others have pointed out, these sorts of inanities were pretty much isolated to people I knew when I was very young and just out of the closet.
posted by treepour at 8:43 AM on January 11

Haha, how could I forget the five million times I say "Be careful!" or "Not safe!"
posted by flex at 8:44 AM on January 11

I'd rather have people say stupid shit to me about being gay than hateful shit, so my outrage meter on this is at nil. Again, though, I looked at this more as an example of mocking certain urban United States-based stereotypes than as a documentary record of what an actual real-life "girl" would say about or in the presence of a gay man. Just because no one has ever said any of these things to me as a gay man doesn't mean that I've never heard anecdotes from gay men who have encountered these things or know someone who has. The "All the good men are taken or gay" trope is one that is so commonplace as to be trite at this point -- it's a lazy romcom and sitcom standard and is even an entry in TV Tropes. Whether it's objectively true or not is another issue and not one that this clip seems to be meant to address.
posted by blucevalo at 9:12 AM on January 11

Everyone knows we say "flame dame" now. So, you're welcome.

Also, and I understand this may not make a lot of sense, but every time someone thought I was gay, or I found out after-the-fact that people thought I was into dudes, I've been amped about it.

I really like subverting expectations. There's nothing wrong with having an adolescence that runs into your mid-thirties, is there?
posted by Poppa Bear at 9:15 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

I went looking for "Shit People say to Tall People," but didn't find anything very funny. Lots of potential there!
posted by MrMoonPie at 9:19 AM on January 11

I'm waiting for the "Shit the Internet Says To Girls" video.

I'm still waiting for the "Shit Straight Stoned Guys Say to their Gay Friends" (e.g. "hey, pass the cheese!").

Until then I'm safe.
posted by mrgrimm at 9:26 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

This is just in: Shit Nobody Says.
posted by ts;dr at 9:38 AM on January 11 [6 favorites]

Infinite Jest, you're welcome.
posted by jiawen at 9:50 AM on January 11

Shit straight guys say to gay guys.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 10:03 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

All these videos* make me paranoid. Have I said these things? Do I say these things now? Is someone somewhere making a video "Shit ThePinkSuperhero Says to Me"?

*Except this one. That girl has a LOT of really dumb friends.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:20 AM on January 11 [5 favorites]

Shit straight guys say to gay guys.

Ugh, that's least funny one yet.
posted by modernnomad at 10:25 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

Shit Liza Minnelli Says
posted by Help, I can't stop talking! at 10:28 AM on January 11 [3 favorites]

"Fierce"?
posted by WalkingAround at 10:47 AM on January 11

Shit nobody says.
posted by Meatbomb at 10:49 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

Shit nobody says.

Aaaaand we have a winner.

"Does anyone know how I can make Papyrus my default font?"
posted by alby at 11:14 AM on January 11 [6 favorites]

Actually, as a friend of a friend who asked a women he about to climb into bed with if she was transsexual...

I thought that only happened to women who work at the DMV.
posted by y2karl at 11:14 AM on January 11

Shit normal sized people say to skinny women. (You shouldn't be eating a salad. You should order a cheese burger....Do you ever eat.... What size pants do you wear anyway?....I hate you, I bet you can shop anywhere....You should eat....If you ate something once in a while, your pants would stay up....Why do you exercise, you're already skinny!....Can I give you some of my ass?....What's your secret? I promise not to tell if you're anorexic....)

Shit Jews say to gentiles who are dating Jewish men (Sometimes it's kind of heart breaking that I'm considering converting and marrying this guy and ladies tell me that even if I convert chabadnik they'd still expect me to have my kids dunked in the ocean or the mikvah to be "really jewish." And others tell me that I'm taking a Jewish Girl's Spot, and since I'm an atheist, I get the "But what do you believe in?" incredulousness from all corners)
posted by tulip-socks at 11:15 AM on January 11

> All these Shit X-group say to Y-group videos are like a window for me into a parallel universe in which people operate almost entirely on the basis of weird stereotypes and outdated conceptions of basic human interaction.

I thought I agreed with you, but then I realized that I would love to see "Shit Parents of Neurotypical Children say to Parents of Children with Special Needs." I'm sure a PoNTC would think "I never say those things," while I would think "yes, you do."
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:17 AM on January 11 [5 favorites]

Hanging out with a load of gay men who call each other and all other gay men 'she/her'

Ugh. Can we just all agree not to put up with that shit, please?
posted by Houyhnhnm at 11:42 AM on January 11

Hanging out with a load of gay men who call each other and all other gay men 'she/her'

Ugh. Can we just all agree not to put up with that shit, please?

You're allowed to control the pronoun that you personally go by and that's about it. What two third parties call each other is not your business, even if you find it super annoying. (For the record, I'm also bothered by it, but it's a practice favored by an older generation of gay males that fought through way more shit than me, so they can have it because they've earned it.)
posted by Help, I can't stop talking! at 11:54 AM on January 11 [9 favorites]

This may be a bit off topic (and old, but I'm not in charge of that) but did you know (4th paragraph) that L home ownership is 59% while G home ownership is 41% ?

And please, no dramatic statements about who's more faithful.
posted by Twang at 11:58 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

Shit straight guys say to gay guys.

I don't understand parts of this one. Like, the singing bit. What the hell is that about? Also...are there really guys who sit around listing off every hot woman they can think of in the hopes that their gay friend will finally say that, yes, there is one woman out there who could "turn him straight?" I don't get it.

(Of course, I fear that I have probably said one or two of the other things in that video.)
posted by asnider at 12:08 PM on January 11

Shit nobody says. yt

DAMN YOU Meatbomb!!! I come here to post exactly this, and what does my browser open the thread up to? YOUR FUCKING POST OF MY COOL LINK!
posted by IAmBroom at 12:12 PM on January 11

asnider, it's not that one straight dude will do it that persistently, but notice the subtlety of the guy opening by saying that he recognizes that Ryan Gosling is attractive. Sexuality is fluid, and straight dudes that are friends with gay guys are probably more willing to admit that they've, like, one time thought about it. Similarly, I know plenty of gay guys who have slept with women. So it's the kind of thing that gets thrown into conversation. On the other hand, there is a certain subset of straight dudes who will not understand how you couldn't want to have sex with Angelina Jolie, you know? Like: ANGELINA JOLIE. So this is sort of a representation of that whole phenomenon.

As for the singing, I've got nothing.
posted by Help, I can't stop talking! at 12:15 PM on January 11

Help, I can't stop talking! - That makes sense. But, the first part of your explanation doesn't sound like a negative stereotype. I sort of assumed that the point of this whole meme was to point out how ignorant and stereotypical the supposedly harmless things that people with privilege say to marginalized people.
posted by asnider at 12:22 PM on January 11

He's singing Rhianna, if that helps.

You're allowed to control the pronoun that you personally go by and that's about it. What two third parties call each other is not your business, even if you find it super annoying. (For the record, I'm also bothered by it, but it's a practice favored by an older generation of gay males that fought through way more shit than me, so they can have it because they've earned it.)

See, I've only experienced this with twenty-something gays and it was as confusing as it was irritating. It was usually about someone behind their back, like the waiter.
posted by Houyhnhnm at 12:24 PM on January 11

asnider, the meme does a lot of different things. The humor is in the relatability. Like, every gay guy can think of a time that a straight dude has told them about how they've had a fleeting attraction to another man. It's a weird thing that happens only between straight guys and gay guys, as if the heterosexuals have found a "way in" because they know what it's like to find another man handsome. It's not outright marginalizing or even particularly offensive, but it's a little clueless in an endearing way.
posted by Help, I can't stop talking! at 12:27 PM on January 11

I am a woman, have gay guy friends, and I have never said ANY of these things, ever. I hate these things.

Well then, congratulations! This isn't about you! See how the title does not include the word "all"?

Just because you don't do it doesn't mean this isn't a real thing that happens every goddamned day between openly gay men and straight women.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:56 PM on January 11 [1 favorite]

I'm sorry if you think my comment meant I think it's not a real thing. I'm sure it is, especially among people who are just getting to know each other or who are more roommates or acquaintances and not real friends.
posted by sweetkid at 2:22 PM on January 11 [1 favorite]

Sorry. That comment read to me as having a just-dropped-into-this-feminism-thread-to-ask-why-all-you-man-haters-can't-see-that-some-of-us-aren't-assholes whiff about it.
posted by Sys Rq at 2:42 PM on January 11 [1 favorite]

I can *totally* see how it might read that way, especially as I've seen plenty of those drive by man-hater comments as well! I'm just so tired of these videos that tell me what I'm like as a "girl" by someone in a high pitched dumb voice.

It does make more sense to me when I think it's not supposed to be about actual friends but more just insensitive people in daily life.
posted by sweetkid at 2:47 PM on January 11 [2 favorites]

I'm not a child solider, but i don't question they exist. What kind of worlds do people get to live in they anything outside of their personal experience may not actually exist?
Ignorant people abound. If you are ucky enough to avoid them for the most part, bully for you. they still exist, sorry to say, and there is much evidence to this fact.
posted by provoliminal at 3:37 PM on January 11

I guess I kind of do wonder why so many of these things seem to be about "girls," and not very many seem to be about "boys." Are women more likely to say offensive things than men are? Are we just easier to mock?
posted by craichead at 4:19 PM on January 11 [6 favorites]

Because Stupid Shit Boys Say is basically TV 24/7
posted by The Whelk at 5:00 PM on January 11 [6 favorites]

Hah, was wondering if this was going to get posted here. A lot of it was eerily familiar, especially the bit that was all, "oh, you're gay! ALL PERSONAL BOUNDARIES HAVE ABRUPTLY VANISHED, NOW YOU WILL FEEL MY BREASTS"

(That said, I think kavasa nailed it upthread.)
posted by en forme de poire at 8:48 PM on January 11 [1 favorite]

Yeah, I know I was preaching tolerance for ignorance upthread and all, but seriously, how were you raised that you think that's OK? Do you do that to your female friends? Ugh.
posted by maryr at 6:47 AM on January 12

LMGM: "+1 for that licking the foil top of the yogurt container. The subtle use of gestural vocabularies like that definitely adds to the truthiness of the video…"

Oh shit. I lick the foil top of yogurt containers. What does that mean?
posted by Deathalicious at 7:05 AM on January 12 [1 favorite]

Metafilter: I came for the hurf but stayed for the durf.
posted by psoas at 10:15 AM on January 12

Because Stupid Shit Boys Say is basically TV 24/7

And (aside from a few very limited sports and military references (e.g. Bless You Boys, or "bring our boys home") those men will almost never be called "boys."

Isn't using "girls" to refer to anyone over the age of 18 pretty darn offensive by itself?
posted by mrgrimm at 11:15 AM on January 12 [1 favorite]

Isn't using "girls" to refer to anyone over the age of 18 pretty darn offensive by itself?

Sure, but it's been the counterpart to guys since gals withered away.

And (aside from a few very limited sports and military references (e.g. Bless You Boys, or "bring our boys home") those men will almost never be called "boys."

You've never gone out drinking with the boys? You've never been anyone's boyfriend?
posted by Sys Rq at 11:31 AM on January 12 [1 favorite]

Male partners are often referred to as boys in AskMetafilter. I hate it, and think it conveys a great deal about the question-askers' mindsets.
posted by MrMoonPie at 12:18 PM on January 12

One of my friends' complaints is always being invited to showers/bachelorette parties.
posted by Pax at 1:01 PM on January 12 [1 favorite]

You've never gone out drinking with the boys? You've never been anyone's boyfriend?

Honestly, not since I was a teenager, but obviously ymmv.

Male partners are often referred to as boys in AskMetafilter. I hate it, and think it conveys a great deal about the question-askers' mindsets.

Fascinating. Yes, that would be the major usage, a man as a partner (boyfriend) or potential partner (boy I like).

It does seem to reveal a juvenile mindset, I agree.
posted by mrgrimm at 5:15 PM on January 12

Isn't using "girls" to refer to anyone over the age of 18 pretty darn offensive by itself?

This was discussed in great detail recently. Good question, I thought.
posted by TheSecretDecoderRing at 9:08 PM on January 12 [2 favorites]

Shit Homophobic People Say.
posted by ericb at 1:48 PM on January 13 [3 favorites]

Shit New Yorkers Say. Very well done (and MeFi's own hermitosis appears throughout).
posted by ericb at 8:59 AM on January 19 [1 favorite]

Here's a link to the New Yorkers one where the video actually shows up.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:24 AM on January 19

Shit Med Students Say is my favorite.
posted by likeatoaster at 1:48 PM on January 19