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February 17, 2012 2:13 PM   Subscribe

Philadelphia's Fox 29 News does an undercover investigation on the possible terrorist threat posed by unguarded chemicals in labs. Mistakes are made.
posted by sciencegeek (83 comments total) 6 users marked this as a favorite

 
Not HCL! The President's precious seashell collection could be ruined!
posted by leotrotsky at 2:18 PM on February 17, 2012 [4 favorites]




Oh when will you people who belong to the reality-based community ever learn?
posted by KokuRyu at 2:23 PM on February 17, 2012 [2 favorites]


"WE SAW NITROGEN IN TANKS JUST SITTING THERE FOR A MURDEROUS SLAVERING TERRORIST TO GET HIS HANDS ON. AND ULTRA DANGEROUS HYDROCHLORIC ACID WHICH COULD BURN YOUR FACE RIGHT OFF IN THE HANDS OF A VICIOUS KILLER!!!!"

The sad thing is, there really is a valuable lesson to be learned from this report (most labs do keep dangerous chemicals about and it's probably a good idea to have them locked away.) But the sensationalistic, hyperbolic, fearmongering way this is presented makes me want to claw my own ears off.
posted by zarq at 2:26 PM on February 17, 2012 [4 favorites]


Could TERRORISTS get LETHAL CHEMICALS from your local GROCERY STORE? Our correspondent looks in to the BLEACH MENACE lurking JUST AROUND THE CORNER. We strongly encourage you to FREAK. OUT.
posted by 0xFCAF at 2:28 PM on February 17, 2012 [30 favorites]


Heh. Reminds me of a novel I was editing recently in which the author had a terrorist making an incendiary bomb with a bunch of nitrogen.
posted by Hypocrite_Lecteur at 2:28 PM on February 17, 2012


The requirements for securely storing 'high risk' chemicals are, quite appropriately, concentration and amount dependent. As a simplistic example, one 50lb bag of fertilizer is fine, 50 bags need to be secured, similarly one liter of HCl is something to be handled carefully but 50 liters needs to be handled very carefully and be secured.

I saw nothing in that video that was of any genuine concern aside from the dumbass with the camera waving his hands in hoods he didn't understand the contents of. If I ever saw someone like that in my lab they would immediately be cornered by a very angry graduate student holding the very hefty lab wrench and a cell phone dialed to 911.
posted by Blasdelb at 2:28 PM on February 17, 2012 [11 favorites]


Mistakes are made.

Are you referring to his repeated verbal slip-up at the end of this HARD-HITTING report (5:38)?
posted by obscurator at 2:30 PM on February 17, 2012 [3 favorites]


JUST WAIT UNTIL THEY FIND OUT ABOUT HARDWARE STORES
posted by Sticherbeast at 2:30 PM on February 17, 2012 [33 favorites]


Nitrogen tanks just like the ones I see on street corners in NYC. 1N HCl. That open "cabinet" is a fume hood.

You know that weird intersection between something being hilarious and it being very, very wrong? This is right there, standing on the corner, in a clown costume, holding some balloons and an axe.

More seriously, when I worked for NIH, we were instructed to challenge any unknown person who entered a lab. We were also instructed to never leave a lab unlocked and unattended. They did spot checks. Including one on my lab on Saturday at around 10:30pm.
posted by sciencegeek at 2:30 PM on February 17, 2012 [8 favorites]


Wait'll you tell them that there's an explosive sold in most neighborhoods so powerful that one gallon (which costs less than $5) can propel a car up to 40 miles.
posted by MrMoonPie at 2:32 PM on February 17, 2012 [82 favorites]


Okay this is stupid. Like candy from a baby? Who lets their baby handle hydrochloric acid?
posted by Big_B at 2:34 PM on February 17, 2012 [4 favorites]


Next up: We investigate the MURDER PRACTICE ZONE where you can pay cash, anonymously, to shoot live ammunition at paper targets. Our undercover agent was able to fire dozens of rounds without question. Could terrorists be using these so-called "shooting ranges" to hone their skills at killing Americans?
posted by 0xFCAF at 2:34 PM on February 17, 2012 [71 favorites]


So the 'mistakes are made' refers to the Lotto number chyron that is displayed instead of the list of chemicals?
posted by crunchland at 2:35 PM on February 17, 2012


". . . but who knows what's in these unlocked drawers and cabinets?"

Good point, Fox News Philadelphia. If only there was some way of figuring that out.
posted by UrineSoakedRube at 2:36 PM on February 17, 2012 [19 favorites]


The sad thing is, there really is a valuable lesson to be learned from this report

The most valuable lesson to be learned is a lesson on the failure of journalism in America, followed closely by a lesson on the failure of science education.

The lesson that crazy people may walk off the street into university labs (as demonstrated by Fox 29 filming an actual crazy person) is low down on the list; the fact that Fox 29 employs a crazy person as an investigative reporter is much higher.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 2:37 PM on February 17, 2012 [4 favorites]


Oh come on. There's enough pool shock and DOT-3 in a WalMart to level an office block. But I guess mentioning that would be bad for ad revenue.
posted by seanmpuckett at 2:38 PM on February 17, 2012 [6 favorites]


Checks calendar, confirms that it's February.

Gotta love the sweeps periods.
posted by jquinby at 2:39 PM on February 17, 2012 [1 favorite]


His hyperbole reminds me of the people in SNL's Marble Columns commercial. "How about this DANGEROUS CHEMICAL? Or THAT one?"
posted by hermitosis at 2:40 PM on February 17, 2012 [1 favorite]


It's pity that stupidity couldn't be treated as the danger it actually constitutes.
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 2:41 PM on February 17, 2012 [9 favorites]


"Are you referring to his repeated verbal slip-up at the end of this HARD-HITTING report (5:38)?"

I was thinking the 'reporter' presenting a danger to himself and others by fucking with shit in a place where he plainly didn't understand what real hazards there are.
posted by Blasdelb at 2:43 PM on February 17, 2012


I didn't see any gloves or goggles in those videos. Somone should report them to OSHA.
posted by bonehead at 2:45 PM on February 17, 2012 [3 favorites]


Good ol' Fox News. Every time I visit my parents and cross the river to eat at Chicken In The Rough (recommended) it's playing on a television above the bar to remind me that I am, indeed, visiting a foreign country.
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:48 PM on February 17, 2012 [1 favorite]


You do know these "reports" are actually prompts to the most extreme elements of their audience to take action, all in hopes that it would boost their ratings if something did occur.
posted by perhapses at 2:50 PM on February 17, 2012 [2 favorites]


Columbia University has a really great site, FDN(wh)Y Me?

As an aid to laboratories in avoiding FDNY Notices of Violation (NOV), CU EH&S distributes monthly FDNY inspection findings which resulted in an NOV citation to an actual CU laboratory on either the Morningside or Medical Center campus. These real life scenarios are meant to assist you in ensuring that such conditions do not exist in your laboratory.


Here is a recent entry:

February, 2012

#48 – Safe Chemical Segregation
During a regular weekly inspection of Columbia University laboratories, the FDNY inspector examined the contents of a chemical storage cabinet and noted that Hydrochloric Acid was being stored alongside Acetic Acid in the same secondary container. The inspector issued a Notice of Violation (NOV) for improper segregation of hazardous chemicals.

Inorganic acids, such as Hydrochloric Acid, and organic acids, such as Acetic Acid, must be stored separately and not in the same tray/container. Ensure that all chemicals in your laboratory are stored safely and segregated according to hazard class. For more information about proper chemical segregation, refer to our chemical segregation chart (http://www.ehs.columbia.edu/chemSegChart.pdf).
posted by mlis at 3:01 PM on February 17, 2012 [4 favorites]


I just dragged out my lab's Federal Register* and it looks like the concentration of Hydrocholric acid they found is only listed as a security concern for environmental release as a toxin, while explicitly not a security concern for theft, and then only in amounts greater than 15,000 pounds**. The Securing threshold of Ethyl ether is listed as 10,000 pounds and is only a flammable concern and not a theft concern, though admittedly that would make a really fucking big bomb.

*Guess who has two thumbs and recently had to do an inventory.
**Yes, thats pounds of HCl, whatever FBI.
posted by Blasdelb at 3:02 PM on February 17, 2012 [9 favorites]


I'm more concerned by his pronunciation of 'drawers'.
posted by Partario at 3:02 PM on February 17, 2012 [6 favorites]




...but the building is wide open. We don't need a key or a swipe card to get in...

Now the cat's out of the bag. If the chemistry students hear this they might go to class.
posted by Killick at 3:08 PM on February 17, 2012 [7 favorites]


GET BACK!!! - HE HAS NITROGEN!!!! AND TINY QUANTITIES OF OTHER STUFF
posted by the noob at 3:09 PM on February 17, 2012 [12 favorites]


The chemistry building in question has classrooms, and a chemistry library as well as labs. Hence the ease of entry. The medical school campus requires access keys and has a security guard.
posted by sciencegeek at 3:11 PM on February 17, 2012 [1 favorite]


Still waiting for DHS to call? Perhaps it's embarrassment preventing them.
posted by the noob at 3:14 PM on February 17, 2012


God I fucking hate the editing on local affiliate TV news.
posted by shakespeherian at 3:16 PM on February 17, 2012


"EVERY"
"WORD"
"IN"
"SCARE"
"QUOTES"

"Could bad reporting ROT the minds of AMERICANS? We REVEAL the INSIDIOUS truth!"

"We REPORT you DECIDE"
posted by double block and bleed at 3:23 PM on February 17, 2012 [2 favorites]


The thing is, this is the Fox affiliate for Philadelphia. Philadelphia is a pretty big city which should theoretically get nominally decent journalism.
posted by sciencegeek at 3:25 PM on February 17, 2012


For his next follow-up he can look into the dangers of the dihydrogen monoxide that flowed freely from taps all over the lab.
posted by bowmaniac at 3:27 PM on February 17, 2012 [5 favorites]


Oh lord, there's a follow up.
posted by sciencegeek at 3:32 PM on February 17, 2012


"No one stops us or asks us what we're doing!"

Really, someone should.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 3:36 PM on February 17, 2012 [8 favorites]


I am reminded of a story about my stepmother.

My dad was an aid model railroader, and kept a tank of nitrogen as a dry source of propellant for his airbrushes.

My stepmother, bless her (scientifically ignorant) heart, casually mentioned to her employer (the local fire chief!) that he used a "huge tank of HYDROGEN" to paint his model trains.

Cue a 3-alarm response to my dad's painting shed.

It was funny, in retrospect, but the demands that my dad show a receipt for a 10-year old tank of industrial nitrogen really set him off.
posted by pjern at 3:39 PM on February 17, 2012 [5 favorites]


The thing is, this is the Fox affiliate for Philadelphia. Philadelphia is a pretty big city which should theoretically get nominally decent journalism.

Yeah, but you saw that part where you wrote "Fox affiliate," right?
posted by gompa at 3:46 PM on February 17, 2012 [6 favorites]


That guy probably went to an expensive journalism school. He was probably inspired by Woodward/Bernstein. He thought he would Make a Difference. Now he does this. So sad.
posted by hot_monster at 3:52 PM on February 17, 2012 [8 favorites]


It's no wonder they're scared of terrorism in Philly; didn't they have a big terrorist attack there 25 or so years ago? The memory is a little hazy, but I seem to remember something about almost an entire city block being destroyed. /hamburger
But seriously, how can we get people to stop filling their heads with this garbage?
posted by ambulocetus at 3:52 PM on February 17, 2012 [2 favorites]


According to the source of all knowledge (and this includes facts about the safety of nitrogen gas), Wikipedia, Fox 29 of Philadelphia is indeed an affiliate, but it is a Fox owned and operated affiliate.

I'm not someone who knows a lot about broadcast journalism, but in my limited experience, the larger cities tend to have slightly better journalism. I'm a former resident of Philly now living in NYC and I can see the difference. However, I've also lived in smaller markets and the contrast between smaller market and big city is quite striking. I'm shocked that no one fact checked this piece at all.
posted by sciencegeek at 3:59 PM on February 17, 2012


Man, I'd never seen that Mr. Show skit before. It's amazing how they got their production values to almost look like the real thing. If they didn't have elements like the reporter trying to scare you with nitrogen you really couldn't tell.
posted by benito.strauss at 4:02 PM on February 17, 2012 [1 favorite]


Fox News: If you aren't afraid of our manufactured threat, the terrorists have won. If you aren't wet-your-pants scared, you're a traitor.
posted by kjs3 at 4:03 PM on February 17, 2012 [2 favorites]


That guy probably went to an expensive journalism school. He was probably inspired by Woodward/Bernstein. He thought he would Make a Difference. Now he does this. So sad.

This is not, in my experience, the typical background for a local news talking head. In fact, the folks in my J-school cohort (this was back in '97-98) who were most interested in becoming on-air TV news people would've been hard-pressed to tell you who Woodward and Bernstein were.

More typical profile: Someone really, really wants to be on TV - as an end in itself - but lacks the skill or wherewithal to learn how to act and do auditions and all that. What if I could just read stuff off a teleprompter and ask people scripted questions? I could maybe do that!
posted by gompa at 4:11 PM on February 17, 2012 [4 favorites]


Oh my god, terrorists could steal some hydrochloric acid from a lab! Alternatively, if these terrorists have twenty dollars, they could go buy a few fucking gallons of 10M HCl from Lowe's.
posted by en forme de poire at 4:13 PM on February 17, 2012 [5 favorites]


In other news, the Broad Street Run sold out in 5 hours. Some of those runners could be TERRORISTS!
posted by snapped at 4:15 PM on February 17, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oh my god, terrorists could steal some hydrochloric acid from a lab! Alternatively, if these terrorists have twenty dollars, they could go buy a few fucking gallons of 10M HCl from Lowe's.

And then they could go to the GROCERY STORE to buy ALUMINUM FOIL and create a HYDROGEN BOMB!

Yes, I know the difference between an actual H-bomb and a Works bomb, thank you.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 4:40 PM on February 17, 2012 [3 favorites]


I'm curious: can a private person get his hands on hydrochloric acid? Is it a controlled product and you have to be a licensed institution or company or something, or is it a "call up your local chemical supply company, and they'll happily send you a few gallons" kind of a deal?
posted by gkhan at 4:52 PM on February 17, 2012


Ahh, sorry, didn't see that comment above. I guess you can do that :) I clearly know nothing about chemistry.
posted by gkhan at 4:54 PM on February 17, 2012


Want some hydrochloric acid? Stick your fingers down your throat...
posted by tommyD at 4:57 PM on February 17, 2012 [12 favorites]


People are really clueless when it comes to everyday common chemicals though. I saw my boss at the restaurant I used to work at take bleach and copiously pour it onto the floor because raw chicken was dropped on it. He did that a number of times, regardless of me perfectly explaining to him, every time, that what he was doing was wrong in a number of ways. I wish I could say that was the stupidest thing I saw him do, but I did learn from him you don't have to be smart to be successful.
posted by P.o.B. at 5:20 PM on February 17, 2012


What always used to stun me was when I'd say "Don't store that with this, please. I'd rather not have my face blown off." And my brethren who approached biochemistry from the biology side of things were like, "How do you know this stuff?"

As if not wanting to have my face blown off was somehow not enough of a reason.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 5:21 PM on February 17, 2012 [4 favorites]


gkhan, yeah, sorry, "muriatic acid" is the old name for hydrochloric acid. 10M HCl is about as strong as you can make it (the pH would be around −1).
posted by en forme de poire at 5:21 PM on February 17, 2012


Also, everyone has heard of dihydrongen monoxide (which isn't really a proper name anyway - it's iron (III) oxide, not diiron trioxide) but if you really want to wow them, call water by it's IUPAC name - Oxidane.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 5:25 PM on February 17, 2012 [7 favorites]



Why don't the FOx people just read this to their audience?

Basic laws of human stupidity.
posted by sneebler at 5:30 PM on February 17, 2012 [1 favorite]


So I was here explaining to my wife how IUPAC naming for mononuclear hydrides work... So there's Borane (which is actually B2H6, methane, azane (which is ammonia), oxidane.... Hmmm, I guess hydrochloric acid would be chlorane.

Sure enough.

Now I'm wondering how inside out a FOX affiliate reporter would turn themselves over a solution of chlorane or if it would be unfamiliar enough that they wouldn't get that drinking it might not be a good idea.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 5:46 PM on February 17, 2012 [2 favorites]




"I'm curious: can a private person get his hands on hydrochloric acid? Is it a controlled product and you have to be a licensed institution or company or something, or is it a "call up your local chemical supply company, and they'll happily send you a few gallons" kind of a deal?"

So longs as you're not buying more than 15,000 pounds Homeland Security doesn't automatically care, and so long as you are transporting fucktons on public roads no one cares.
posted by Blasdelb at 6:41 PM on February 17, 2012


Man, the Onion is never not funny.
posted by Auguris at 7:36 PM on February 17, 2012 [1 favorite]


Umm. The state of journalism in Philadelphia is a bit contentious right now.
posted by desuetude at 7:37 PM on February 17, 2012


Could TERRORISTS get LETHAL CHEMICALS from your local HARDWARE STORE?

Why yes, yes I can. Picked up some fertilizer just the other day.

Going to try to blow grow the grass greener.
posted by BlueHorse at 7:49 PM on February 17, 2012


For the non-chemistry people reading this thread, be aware that brake fluid, pool chlorine, pool acid, fertilizer, rust, ammonia and plenty of other everyday items are of infinitely more value to a terrorist than the tiny quantities of purified reagents in a lab.
The things listed above can be combined to make various explosives, lab reagents typically are not stored in large enough quantities to be particularly risky.
posted by bystander at 8:00 PM on February 17, 2012 [4 favorites]


This is. The dumbest thing.
posted by six-or-six-thirty at 8:13 PM on February 17, 2012 [1 favorite]


The terrorists have a vast underground network through which they can obtain virtually unlimited quantities of highly explosive materials.

They mostly use it for cooking.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:14 PM on February 17, 2012 [3 favorites]


Kid, how did you get from water to ferric oxide?
posted by benito.strauss at 8:31 PM on February 17, 2012


Dihydrogen Monoxide is to Diiron Trioxide as hydrogen oxide is to Iron Oxide.

Only with iron you have to specify the oxidation state, which is not typically an issue with oxygen. Speaking of which, I wonder how much of a head explosion I could cause a FOX affiliate reporter using just iron oxide and aluminum.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 8:56 PM on February 17, 2012 [2 favorites]


The thing is, this is the Fox affiliate for Philadelphia. Philadelphia is a pretty big city which should theoretically get nominally decent journalism.

No, that's about par for Philly. Seriously. Channel 6's tabloid Action News was what set the bar for 1970s-Anchorman-style journalism.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:57 PM on February 17, 2012


As a resident of the greater Philadelphia region, I have occasionally caught parts of fox 29 news broadcasts (after the re-run of Seinfeld or whatever)... their ridiculously amateurish presentation has often caused me to cringe with embarrassment, sometimes even escalating to anger that this even passes for tv "journalism" so this was not a surprise to me at all. Blazecock Pileon is right, this is pretty much standard for our local news affiliates, although for some reason channel 6 "Action News" always seemed more likely to elicit laughter rather than rage for me...
posted by Jeeb at 10:56 PM on February 17, 2012


"cornered by a very angry graduate student holding the very hefty lab wrench and a cell phone dialed to 911" is not the same as "cornered by a very angry graduate student holding the very hefty lab wench and a cell phone dialed to 911"
posted by cookie-k at 11:35 PM on February 17, 2012


I want to punch that "reporter" in the face

This is not Investigative Journalism. This is Fucking Assholes Preying On the Fears of the Scientifically Illiterate.

Does anyone logically think that chemicals dangerous enough / in large enough amounts to have government lockdown mandates would be used in a basic undergrad chem course?
posted by caution live frogs at 1:40 AM on February 18, 2012 [2 favorites]


Two things:

1) Filling out the DHS controlled chemicals form taught me I should be very very nice to the trained actual chemists. Pretty much every single entry: "Oh, yeah, that's on the list because you can combine it with blah to make blah."

2) Around here, if strangers came poking around in the lab they would probably be chased off by a very angry graduate student convinced that they were going to steal his laptop AND WHAT HE'S WRITTEN UP ON HIS DISSERTATION. Hell hath no fury.
posted by Comrade_robot at 5:29 AM on February 18, 2012 [2 favorites]


    "cornered by a very angry graduate student holding the very hefty lab wrench and a cell phone dialed to 911" is not the same as "cornered by a very angry graduate student holding the very hefty lab wench and a cell phone dialed to 911"
Never underestimate the destructive power of a motivated undergrad
posted by Blasdelb at 8:47 AM on February 18, 2012


Lock your lab: You never know when an annoying reporter is going to stick his head in.

Actually, I did work in a lab with swipe card access last summer; We had some low level sources in it, and it was easier then always remembering to lock the room. The REALLY annoying part was the idiots put the sensor too high so you couldn't just bump your hip against it as you walked up to the door.

I thought it was silly that we had to lock up our 30 year old box of point sources, 3/4 of which had decayed to nothing and the rest were under 10 kBq, but if we wanted to we could store unsecured Te(CO)4 or whatever. I'll give you a hint at which I could hurt more people with. Hint: Radioactivity isn't as dangerous as the safety people would like you to think.
posted by Canageek at 8:50 AM on February 18, 2012 [1 favorite]


Canageek: "Lock your lab: You never know when an annoying reporter is going to stick his head in.

Actually, I did work in a lab with swipe card access last summer; We had some low level sources in it, and it was easier then always remembering to lock the room. The REALLY annoying part was the idiots put the sensor too high so you couldn't just bump your hip against it as you walked up to the door.

I thought it was silly that we had to lock up our 30 year old box of point sources, 3/4 of which had decayed to nothing and the rest were under 10 kBq, but if we wanted to we could store unsecured Te(CO)4 or whatever. I'll give you a hint at which I could hurt more people with. Hint: Radioactivity isn't as dangerous as the safety people would like you to think.
"

Not nearly as dangerous as vacuum pockets that could be easily be stolen by The Terrorists to do Something Terrible!
posted by double block and bleed at 9:21 AM on February 18, 2012 [7 favorites]


"I thought it was silly that we had to lock up our 30 year old box of point sources, 3/4 of which had decayed to nothing and the rest were under 10 kBq, but if we wanted to we could store unsecured Te(CO)4 or whatever. I'll give you a hint at which I could hurt more people with. Hint: Radioactivity isn't as dangerous as the safety people would like you to think."

Imagine the chaos and extraordinary damage that would be caused by someone taking the contents of your box of and smearing it around campus, or town, or a hospital. Even if the actual radioactive danger is comparable to the same person doing their radioactive graffiti with a banana, the fear and uncertainty would be more than enough to worry about. Your box really should be secured, not for badly intelligent reasons, but for good stupid ones.
posted by Blasdelb at 9:31 AM on February 18, 2012 [2 favorites]


@Blasdelb: About 0 chaos. These were really weak, i.e. just above background sources. I believe the CNSC's comment was "Oh, that IS a really small amount of radiation"...and I think he was looking at the manufacturer numbers from 30 years and several half-lives ago.
posted by Canageek at 10:37 AM on February 18, 2012


It's all fun and games until someone soaks your shorts in oxidane mixed with various surficants and shit, then baked in a hot air bath, to hide the evidence.
posted by Goofyy at 11:39 AM on February 18, 2012 [2 favorites]


But I really need to say is, this is the most blatant yellow crap disguised as journalism I recall ever seeing. (Um, no, I don't live in the USA or see much broadcast TV). What makes me sick is it's not some silly-assed source like a youtube put up by some lunatic fringe organization. And by sick, I mean, if I don't stop thinking about this, I'm going to have a stomach ache.
posted by Goofyy at 11:42 AM on February 18, 2012


Canageek, that means nothing at all. All you need is some talking head mispronouncing nuclear on the evening news and it won't matter in the slightest what the actual levels were. There are too many people invested in radioactive souces being a Thing. Any souce, no matter how low-level that escapes regulated containment is an Incident
posted by bonehead at 1:27 PM on February 18, 2012


@bonehead Good point. I'm well aware of that after the prof I was working for read me some of the emails we got after we published how much radiation BC was getting from Japan last spring (Damn close to 0, by the way)
posted by Canageek at 8:16 AM on February 20, 2012


@Bonehead: Also I agree we need to watch high level sources very, very carefully.

Also I'd like to state that having to open a physical lock every time you return to the lab is really, really annoying and that I wish my labmates were a *lot* less paranoid about their laptops. Doubly so when it is a weekend and you need a cardkey to get into the research wing already.
posted by Canageek at 8:19 AM on February 20, 2012


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