London is full of ghosts
March 1, 2012 4:04 AM Subscribe
"Everyone knows there’s a catastrophe unfolding, that few can afford to live in their own city. It was not always so." - China Miéville on Apocalyptic London
Mieville is a great author; I hope he writes what shape the catastrophe will take
posted by Renoroc at 4:21 AM on March 1, 2012
posted by Renoroc at 4:21 AM on March 1, 2012
That is some lovely writing. Depressing as hell, but powerful stuff.
posted by El Sabor Asiatico at 4:24 AM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by El Sabor Asiatico at 4:24 AM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]
OK. That was seriously great. And certainly chimes with my impressions as a "new" Londoner, as of January. Thanks for posting.
Love your tags, btw.
posted by Sonny Jim at 4:29 AM on March 1, 2012
Love your tags, btw.
posted by Sonny Jim at 4:29 AM on March 1, 2012
Needs more Kraken.
posted by Fizz at 4:39 AM on March 1, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 4:39 AM on March 1, 2012 [4 favorites]
"In 1998, Tony Blair ushered into being ASBOs, antisocial-behavior orders. Sharp laws, the better for society, like Cronus, like a traumatized hamster, to eat its children. These startling civil orders criminalize legal behavior, individually, tailor-making offenses. A 17-year-old was banned from swearing. Another was told he could go to jail if he dropped his trousers. A 19-year-old was barred by law from playing football in the street."
First, what the hell, ASBOs? How have ASBOs worked out? How were they created in the first place? Are they widely and enthusiastically enforced? Are the examples given typical?
Second, thank you for posting this article, timshel. Beautifully written.
posted by MonkeyToes at 4:40 AM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]
First, what the hell, ASBOs? How have ASBOs worked out? How were they created in the first place? Are they widely and enthusiastically enforced? Are the examples given typical?
Second, thank you for posting this article, timshel. Beautifully written.
posted by MonkeyToes at 4:40 AM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]
I hope he writes what shape the catastrophe will take
I'm not sure that's a good idea.
MIEVILLE: "See, what we need is a couple of really big, scary, near-invincible flying narcotic cyborg wildebeest. Then the whole city will come together - black, white, man, woman, sentient orchids, severed demon ninja feet, badger paralegals - against this terrible threat. Unity! Social cohesion!"
MAYOR: "Yes, that sounds excellent. Proceed!"
MIEVILLE: "Oh, there may be some soul crushing misery and despair for beloved protagonists!"
MAYOR: "What? I missed that last bit."
MIEVILLE: "Oh, nothing."
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:41 AM on March 1, 2012 [43 favorites]
I'm not sure that's a good idea.
MIEVILLE: "See, what we need is a couple of really big, scary, near-invincible flying narcotic cyborg wildebeest. Then the whole city will come together - black, white, man, woman, sentient orchids, severed demon ninja feet, badger paralegals - against this terrible threat. Unity! Social cohesion!"
MAYOR: "Yes, that sounds excellent. Proceed!"
MIEVILLE: "Oh, there may be some soul crushing misery and despair for beloved protagonists!"
MAYOR: "What? I missed that last bit."
MIEVILLE: "Oh, nothing."
- later -MAYOR: "WELL, FUCK"
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:41 AM on March 1, 2012 [43 favorites]
First, what the hell, ASBOs
It's as crazy as it sounds. The wiki entry is pretty decent. More detail from Statewatch.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:48 AM on March 1, 2012
It's as crazy as it sounds. The wiki entry is pretty decent. More detail from Statewatch.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:48 AM on March 1, 2012
As harsh and draconian as ASBOs might sound, they still don't seem to be doing much good. Britain needs something more along the lines of Judge Dredd.
posted by Flashman at 4:56 AM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Flashman at 4:56 AM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]
Britain needs something more along the lines of Judge Dredd.
A new peasant revolt.
posted by Meatbomb at 5:13 AM on March 1, 2012 [3 favorites]
A new peasant revolt.
posted by Meatbomb at 5:13 AM on March 1, 2012 [3 favorites]
Miéville mines the best political writing of the Socialist past with great effect in this piece. It's lucid, clear, pointed without losing it's way in rant, using facts and quotes like scalpels rather than blear-inducing bludgeons. We could use a dozen more like him (although perhaps ones who, should they chose to write fiction, would be a little more forgiving to their characters, because, well, fuck, indeed).
For another writer who mines a more inflammatory line of Socialist rhetoric for good effect, Hal Duncan's "It Gets Better" (warning, he deploys f-bombs as if he were Miéville handing out unfortunate fates to characters, so maybe NSFW).
Also: ninja of bumptiousness would be a great user name.
Also also: Metafilter: The many gloomsters!
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:33 AM on March 1, 2012 [5 favorites]
For another writer who mines a more inflammatory line of Socialist rhetoric for good effect, Hal Duncan's "It Gets Better" (warning, he deploys f-bombs as if he were Miéville handing out unfortunate fates to characters, so maybe NSFW).
Also: ninja of bumptiousness would be a great user name.
Also also: Metafilter: The many gloomsters!
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:33 AM on March 1, 2012 [5 favorites]
So the image I take away is that in the sallow light dripping from the Moloch's urinal a ninja of bumptiousness is dancing in the charnel ground of Ozymandian skeletons.
posted by Segundus at 5:33 AM on March 1, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Segundus at 5:33 AM on March 1, 2012 [2 favorites]
...in the sallow light dripping from the Moloch's urinal a ninja of bumptiousness is dancing in the charnel ground of Ozymandian skeletons.
I bet you say that to all the boys.
posted by metaBugs at 5:39 AM on March 1, 2012 [2 favorites]
I bet you say that to all the boys.
posted by metaBugs at 5:39 AM on March 1, 2012 [2 favorites]
Key question re my book queue: are his novels written in that sort of style? Because that was wearing. I could imagine it being read aloud by some half-camp muttonchopped smoking jacket sporter, unable to control waving his lace cuffed hands about, air punctuating each comma.
posted by my face your at 5:43 AM on March 1, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by my face your at 5:43 AM on March 1, 2012 [8 favorites]
the Metropolitan Police Service’s new commissioner, Bernard Hogan-Howe, tells the conference in an avuncular voice about his plan for “total policing.” He is enthusiastic but nebulous. Details are vague. He enthuses about large forces zooming into small areas and clamping down on minor infractions.
That's pretty chilling. I think the penalty for a police spokesperson talking like that should be the dismissal of the entire command structure. because, it is always people who turn out to be the "vague details."
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:44 AM on March 1, 2012 [4 favorites]
That's pretty chilling. I think the penalty for a police spokesperson talking like that should be the dismissal of the entire command structure. because, it is always people who turn out to be the "vague details."
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:44 AM on March 1, 2012 [4 favorites]
This:
At dusk and dawn, green bolts shoot low, as flocks of feral parakeets set about bird business. Walking at dawn in the mud of Wormwood Scrubs, a rough, wild common next to the prison of the same name, we approach a screaming copse. Incredible flocks of these nonnatives preen and screechingly bicker, overlooking the glow of waking London.
And this:
Eyes roll with the duh.
I hope this isn't too off-topic, but I've never actually read one of Miéville's books. Does anyone have a recommendation for where a new reader should start?
posted by El Sabor Asiatico at 5:48 AM on March 1, 2012
At dusk and dawn, green bolts shoot low, as flocks of feral parakeets set about bird business. Walking at dawn in the mud of Wormwood Scrubs, a rough, wild common next to the prison of the same name, we approach a screaming copse. Incredible flocks of these nonnatives preen and screechingly bicker, overlooking the glow of waking London.
And this:
Eyes roll with the duh.
I hope this isn't too off-topic, but I've never actually read one of Miéville's books. Does anyone have a recommendation for where a new reader should start?
posted by El Sabor Asiatico at 5:48 AM on March 1, 2012
Well, on the plus side the poor will still get to be imprisoned in London even if they can't afford to live there. Yay for Wormwood Scrubs and its horrible conditions! (Full disclosure: my father did several years there. Thankfully he's never had to do a reunion.)
posted by lesbiassparrow at 5:52 AM on March 1, 2012
posted by lesbiassparrow at 5:52 AM on March 1, 2012
To my mind it's a toss-up between Perdido St Station ("new weird" fantasy/sf, 1st of trilogy, amazing world-building, political) or The City and the City (more literary, metaphoric, also amazing world-building). If you like PSS then read the two sequels and TC&TC. Then Embassytown. Kraken is OK but inessential, Un Lun Dun is a teen book but worth reading (it's an interesting counterpoint to Lewis or Pullman, only Meiville is criticising capitalism and advocating socialism, rather than religion).
posted by Infinite Jest at 5:53 AM on March 1, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by Infinite Jest at 5:53 AM on March 1, 2012 [6 favorites]
Kracken is a good start, I think. It's a little Tim Powers-y, which is unusual for Miéville, but it is a good solid read and stands alone. The City and the City is masterful, and everyone should read it, but it isn't very representative of his work.
His trilogy, Perdito Street Station, The Scar, and The Iron Council is good, but the first suffers from being two halves oddly welded together and an ending that many peopledislike hate loathe. His imagination and mastery of gritty texture is very much on display. The two later books are more balanced and, I think, better, but it helps to read the first one to set the scene, even though it's not strictly necessary.
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:55 AM on March 1, 2012 [3 favorites]
His trilogy, Perdito Street Station, The Scar, and The Iron Council is good, but the first suffers from being two halves oddly welded together and an ending that many people
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:55 AM on March 1, 2012 [3 favorites]
Un Lun Dun is a teen book but worth reading
Ha, yes, Un Lun Dun is light (and maybe a bit too fond of clever wordplay), but it is a nice deconstruction of YA tropes, and I would give it to anyone who reads YA, whether they are a youth or not.
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:57 AM on March 1, 2012
Ha, yes, Un Lun Dun is light (and maybe a bit too fond of clever wordplay), but it is a nice deconstruction of YA tropes, and I would give it to anyone who reads YA, whether they are a youth or not.
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:57 AM on March 1, 2012
The City and the City is masterful, and everyone should read it, but it isn't very representative of his work
I'm not sure. After reading Embassytown I think it may well be characteristic of this particular phase of his career. But then it is hard to pin down Mieville's characteristic style: King Rat is very different to PSS is very different to The City & The City. None of them are particularly like this article, although I guess the rambling, shoot from the hip style is most reminiscent of Kraken.
posted by ninebelow at 6:19 AM on March 1, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm not sure. After reading Embassytown I think it may well be characteristic of this particular phase of his career. But then it is hard to pin down Mieville's characteristic style: King Rat is very different to PSS is very different to The City & The City. None of them are particularly like this article, although I guess the rambling, shoot from the hip style is most reminiscent of Kraken.
posted by ninebelow at 6:19 AM on March 1, 2012 [2 favorites]
All cities are full of ghosts, aren't they?—a metropolis without them would be a weird locale, albeit perhaps the wrong flavour of weird to serve as a setting for one of Miéville's novels.
One impression I gleaned from reading Kraken (my only other acquaintance of his work so far) was of Miéville as a purveyor of Londonolatry from the Peter Ackroyd/Iain Sinclair school, yet the city he idealised there is not somewhere I recognised, even though I have lived in London. Perusing this article, I wonder if his politics might be as much about world-building as is his fiction.
I was touched by the urban birder’s lament about there being ‘a shortage of holes in Britain as it is’—I think here we have an issue that we can all agree on: Britain needs more holes.
posted by misteraitch at 6:25 AM on March 1, 2012 [3 favorites]
One impression I gleaned from reading Kraken (my only other acquaintance of his work so far) was of Miéville as a purveyor of Londonolatry from the Peter Ackroyd/Iain Sinclair school, yet the city he idealised there is not somewhere I recognised, even though I have lived in London. Perusing this article, I wonder if his politics might be as much about world-building as is his fiction.
I was touched by the urban birder’s lament about there being ‘a shortage of holes in Britain as it is’—I think here we have an issue that we can all agree on: Britain needs more holes.
posted by misteraitch at 6:25 AM on March 1, 2012 [3 favorites]
I've read PSS and the Scar and think Mieville's a talented writer, but I don't like the way he ends his stories. The self-righteous, preachy way he handled a main character at the end of PSS was repulsive.
posted by shivohum at 6:44 AM on March 1, 2012
posted by shivohum at 6:44 AM on March 1, 2012
Honestly, I find his creative writing (this, his books) to be dreadful. They're rammed with amazing ideas (to which I'm almost entirely sympathetic), but the prose is turgid, imprecise, meandering, laden down with confusing and clashing imagery. The City & The City, for instance, has a premise so cleverly realised (just go read a synopsis somewhere) that I grinned my way through the first half of it. And then it fell off a cliff, because Miéville simply isn't good at advancing and concluding a plot.
By comparison, his critical writing, and its precision, is utterly fantastic.
posted by urschrei at 6:58 AM on March 1, 2012 [2 favorites]
By comparison, his critical writing, and its precision, is utterly fantastic.
posted by urschrei at 6:58 AM on March 1, 2012 [2 favorites]
As harsh and draconian as ASBOs might sound, they still don't seem to be doing much good.
That's because harsh and draconian rules don't, in fact, eliminate bad behavior in humans. It's amazing how many people think otherwise.
posted by gauche at 7:09 AM on March 1, 2012 [11 favorites]
That's because harsh and draconian rules don't, in fact, eliminate bad behavior in humans. It's amazing how many people think otherwise.
posted by gauche at 7:09 AM on March 1, 2012 [11 favorites]
"See, what we need is a couple of really big, scary, near-invincible flying narcotic cyborg wildebeest. Then the whole city will come together - black, white, man, woman, sentient orchids, severed demon ninja feet, badger paralegals - against this terrible threat. Unity! Social cohesion!"
This actually isn't at all the premise of any of his novels. Consider The Scar (which actually has quite a good plot)...The [Big Event] that threatens the [Collective Entity] does not result in unity and is only averted by [Social Conflict] which produces a single action and the brief appearance of partial unity, which soon enough breaks apart into conflict once again. If there's one place where Mieville is particularly clever and realistic, it's where he writes the many ways that different groups' social interests cut across each other and the conflicts within individuals about different aspects of their own identities. All the protagonists of The Scar with the exception of Evil Self-Serving Dude have conflicting interests because they have multiple identities in different settings, even as you or I. The Scar is Mieville's great work (or at least, his great work of fiction) and if I were able to design a class at random I would design a class where we'd read through it and diagram all the interests and how they play out as sort of a practice for looking at real world politics.
Although I kind of wish I was a badger paralegal.
posted by Frowner at 7:21 AM on March 1, 2012 [9 favorites]
This actually isn't at all the premise of any of his novels. Consider The Scar (which actually has quite a good plot)...The [Big Event] that threatens the [Collective Entity] does not result in unity and is only averted by [Social Conflict] which produces a single action and the brief appearance of partial unity, which soon enough breaks apart into conflict once again. If there's one place where Mieville is particularly clever and realistic, it's where he writes the many ways that different groups' social interests cut across each other and the conflicts within individuals about different aspects of their own identities. All the protagonists of The Scar with the exception of Evil Self-Serving Dude have conflicting interests because they have multiple identities in different settings, even as you or I. The Scar is Mieville's great work (or at least, his great work of fiction) and if I were able to design a class at random I would design a class where we'd read through it and diagram all the interests and how they play out as sort of a practice for looking at real world politics.
Although I kind of wish I was a badger paralegal.
posted by Frowner at 7:21 AM on March 1, 2012 [9 favorites]
I hope this isn't too off-topic, but I've never actually read one of Miéville's books. Does anyone have a recommendation for where a new reader should start?
If this interests you, go ahead and start with Perdido Street Station, then follow it up with the Scar. Others may disagree, but after those two (PSS in particular) I found Iron Council completely unnecessary, a total retread.
King Rat is also quite skippable, even though it's the first one of his I read.
posted by adamdschneider at 7:31 AM on March 1, 2012
If this interests you, go ahead and start with Perdido Street Station, then follow it up with the Scar. Others may disagree, but after those two (PSS in particular) I found Iron Council completely unnecessary, a total retread.
King Rat is also quite skippable, even though it's the first one of his I read.
posted by adamdschneider at 7:31 AM on March 1, 2012
First, what the hell, ASBOs? How have ASBOs worked out? How were they created in the first place? Are they widely and enthusiastically enforced? Are the examples given typical?
Oh, they're enthusiastically enforced, all right. Here's a recent example:
Last month TfL applied to issue anti-social behaviour orders which would not only stop [a group of urban explorers] undertaking further expeditions and blogging about urban exploration but also prohibit them from carrying equipment that could be used for exploring after dark. Extraordinarily, it also stipulates they should not be allowed to speak to each other for the duration of the order - 10 years.
posted by rory at 7:55 AM on March 1, 2012 [5 favorites]
Oh, they're enthusiastically enforced, all right. Here's a recent example:
Last month TfL applied to issue anti-social behaviour orders which would not only stop [a group of urban explorers] undertaking further expeditions and blogging about urban exploration but also prohibit them from carrying equipment that could be used for exploring after dark. Extraordinarily, it also stipulates they should not be allowed to speak to each other for the duration of the order - 10 years.
posted by rory at 7:55 AM on March 1, 2012 [5 favorites]
Fantastic. What imagery, what language.
"Like they know what tape is."
..."a ninja of bumptiousness"...
The fox in the shard, the ghost of a bridge at the opening.
posted by mwhybark at 8:32 AM on March 1, 2012
"Like they know what tape is."
..."a ninja of bumptiousness"...
The fox in the shard, the ghost of a bridge at the opening.
posted by mwhybark at 8:32 AM on March 1, 2012
The City And The City was a great example of genre fiction being used to great effect to think about real social problems.
posted by deathpanels at 8:37 AM on March 1, 2012
posted by deathpanels at 8:37 AM on March 1, 2012
Oh, and FWIW, yes, Miéville has grown into a psychogeographic mode.
El Sabor, I have enjoyed Kraken and Iron Council most of all his works.
The City and The City is both a tour de force and sort of sludgy, which I took as a nod to stylistic precursors, notably John Le Carré.
I very much enjoyed Embassytown, probably in part because elements of its plotting reflect elements of Iron Council.
I never really felt the love for King Rat, Perdido Street Station, or The Scar. I felt PSS was kind of a pastiche on Mervyn Peake, on Gormenghast, and as much as his work inspires many authors I deeply love, I have never been able to read it. Struggling through what felt like stylistic homage to Gormenghast was difficult for me.
I suspect that the linguistic tonal shifts especially in the recent works - Kraken, Embassytown, and The City and The City - are more disciplined efforts at controlling compositional style from Mr. Miéville and that this period of his work will give way to a more disciplined and more distinctive authorial voice. More like the voice in his critical work.
posted by mwhybark at 9:14 AM on March 1, 2012 [4 favorites]
El Sabor, I have enjoyed Kraken and Iron Council most of all his works.
The City and The City is both a tour de force and sort of sludgy, which I took as a nod to stylistic precursors, notably John Le Carré.
I very much enjoyed Embassytown, probably in part because elements of its plotting reflect elements of Iron Council.
I never really felt the love for King Rat, Perdido Street Station, or The Scar. I felt PSS was kind of a pastiche on Mervyn Peake, on Gormenghast, and as much as his work inspires many authors I deeply love, I have never been able to read it. Struggling through what felt like stylistic homage to Gormenghast was difficult for me.
I suspect that the linguistic tonal shifts especially in the recent works - Kraken, Embassytown, and The City and The City - are more disciplined efforts at controlling compositional style from Mr. Miéville and that this period of his work will give way to a more disciplined and more distinctive authorial voice. More like the voice in his critical work.
posted by mwhybark at 9:14 AM on March 1, 2012 [4 favorites]
Also, Kraken is sort of an excuse for him to write directly about contemporary London. If Londonalia interests you (as it does me) you may find it especially engaging.
posted by mwhybark at 9:29 AM on March 1, 2012
posted by mwhybark at 9:29 AM on March 1, 2012
By comparison, his critical writing, and its precision, is utterly fantastic.
From the link you post, a swift dissection of a rather turgid form of argument you see from stupid people all the time:
"It is depressing to have to point out, yet again, that there is a distinction between having the legal right to say something & having the moral right not to be held accountable for what you say. Being asked to apologise for saying something unconscionable is not the same as being stripped of the legal right to say it. It’s really not very fucking complicated. Cry Free Speech in such contexts, you are demanding the right to speak any bilge you wish without apology or fear of comeback. You are demanding not legal rights but an end to debate about & criticism of what you say. When did bigotry get so needy? This assertive & idiotic failure to understand that juridical permissibility backed up by the state is not the horizon of politics or morality is absurdly resilient."
Spot on - especially, I think, about bigotry being needy.
posted by lucien_reeve at 10:12 AM on March 1, 2012 [5 favorites]
From the link you post, a swift dissection of a rather turgid form of argument you see from stupid people all the time:
"It is depressing to have to point out, yet again, that there is a distinction between having the legal right to say something & having the moral right not to be held accountable for what you say. Being asked to apologise for saying something unconscionable is not the same as being stripped of the legal right to say it. It’s really not very fucking complicated. Cry Free Speech in such contexts, you are demanding the right to speak any bilge you wish without apology or fear of comeback. You are demanding not legal rights but an end to debate about & criticism of what you say. When did bigotry get so needy? This assertive & idiotic failure to understand that juridical permissibility backed up by the state is not the horizon of politics or morality is absurdly resilient."
Spot on - especially, I think, about bigotry being needy.
posted by lucien_reeve at 10:12 AM on March 1, 2012 [5 favorites]
I hope this isn't too off-topic, but I've never actually read one of Miéville's books. Does anyone have a recommendation for where a new reader should start?
I enjoyed UnLonDon, which is the most readable of his books. The rest of his writing isn't something you so much enjoy, as grimly endure with the goal of being able to say you read it.
posted by happyroach at 10:23 AM on March 1, 2012
I enjoyed UnLonDon, which is the most readable of his books. The rest of his writing isn't something you so much enjoy, as grimly endure with the goal of being able to say you read it.
posted by happyroach at 10:23 AM on March 1, 2012
Sez you. I grimly enjoyed it!
posted by adamdschneider at 10:33 AM on March 1, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by adamdschneider at 10:33 AM on March 1, 2012 [2 favorites]
Iron Council has one of the best queer love stories to ever sneak its way into genre fiction. And it ends better than the preceding two in the series.
I'd suggest Kraken for a starter because it has all the impossible weirdness of his best work but is a hell of a lot more accessable than the soul destroying monster that is PSS. It's very clever and sharply written.
posted by Jilder at 10:54 AM on March 1, 2012
I'd suggest Kraken for a starter because it has all the impossible weirdness of his best work but is a hell of a lot more accessable than the soul destroying monster that is PSS. It's very clever and sharply written.
posted by Jilder at 10:54 AM on March 1, 2012
Perdido Street Station is my favorite of Mieville's work, and either I have a large appetite for the destruction of souls or not everyone finds it so bleak.
I'm betting on the second.
posted by bswinburn at 11:10 AM on March 1, 2012
I'm betting on the second.
posted by bswinburn at 11:10 AM on March 1, 2012
To a very large degree, this could have been about Vancouver when they were preparing for their own olympic debacles a couple years ago.
I enjoyed it, thanks. His language is a little bit overbearing at times, but there were some great lines.
posted by Stagger Lee at 11:12 AM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]
I enjoyed it, thanks. His language is a little bit overbearing at times, but there were some great lines.
posted by Stagger Lee at 11:12 AM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]
Extraordinarily, it also stipulates they should not be allowed to speak to each other for the duration of the order - 10 years.
And people still think that not having a written constitution in the UK is a GOOD thing?
posted by chimaera at 11:48 AM on March 1, 2012
And people still think that not having a written constitution in the UK is a GOOD thing?
posted by chimaera at 11:48 AM on March 1, 2012
“there’s a shortage of holes in Britain as it is.”
Barely enough to fill the Albert Hall.
posted by saturday_morning at 12:11 PM on March 1, 2012 [6 favorites]
Barely enough to fill the Albert Hall.
posted by saturday_morning at 12:11 PM on March 1, 2012 [6 favorites]
After reading PSS and The Scar and Iron Council in rapid succession, UnLunDun was unreadable. I actually sold it back to Powell's because I couldn't stand to have it on my shelves, knowing I'd never touch it or recommend it to another person.
That isn't to say it's a bad book, but compared to his more serious work it is just... I can't explain it.
To stay on topic, the article was great. Everything I've read about urban livability says that London is just too expensive for regular people to survive in and this is another pertinent argument for why that is. Are there any studies on the impact of events like the Olympics on their host cities? Did Atlanta's urban center suffer as a result of post-event planning or did it recover and make use of the space without driving out established citizens? Beijing?
posted by tmt at 12:26 PM on March 1, 2012
That isn't to say it's a bad book, but compared to his more serious work it is just... I can't explain it.
To stay on topic, the article was great. Everything I've read about urban livability says that London is just too expensive for regular people to survive in and this is another pertinent argument for why that is. Are there any studies on the impact of events like the Olympics on their host cities? Did Atlanta's urban center suffer as a result of post-event planning or did it recover and make use of the space without driving out established citizens? Beijing?
posted by tmt at 12:26 PM on March 1, 2012
And people still think that not having a written constitution in the UK is a GOOD thing?
No written constitution != No constitution.
It just means that our politicians don't have to spend their whole lives arguing about what some dead 18th Century aristocrat meant when he used the words "bear arms." Maybe Washington just had a t-shirt fetish and was crap at spelling.
our politicians get to concentrate on more useful activities like shagging their secretaries and fiddling their expenses.
posted by garius at 12:35 PM on March 1, 2012
No written constitution != No constitution.
It just means that our politicians don't have to spend their whole lives arguing about what some dead 18th Century aristocrat meant when he used the words "bear arms." Maybe Washington just had a t-shirt fetish and was crap at spelling.
our politicians get to concentrate on more useful activities like shagging their secretaries and fiddling their expenses.
posted by garius at 12:35 PM on March 1, 2012
Mieville's books are like sitting down to eat a lovely piece of chocolate cake, and, while it's delicious, you realize it's got a sweet graham cracker crust, rich mocha ice cream on that, three layers of of chocolate (milk, bitter, extra sweet), then some raspberry (with sweet raspberry sauce), some strawberry (with sweet strawberry sauce), hot fudge topping, more chocolate here and there, and a huge dallop of whipped cream. Oh, and it's twice the size of a normal piece of cake.
In other words, a lot of craft went into making it, but it's all rather overdone and it's a bit of a slog to finish the whole thing.
posted by zardoz at 1:37 PM on March 1, 2012
In other words, a lot of craft went into making it, but it's all rather overdone and it's a bit of a slog to finish the whole thing.
posted by zardoz at 1:37 PM on March 1, 2012
Miéville's early Bas-Lag stuff (PSS, TS, IC) are rather difficult to read, although I enjoyed the world, the characters, and the plots. I think that Un Lun Dun, his young adult offering, forced him to work on his writing style and I think it really paid off; The City & The City was much easier to read the Kraken almost flies off the page, especially when comparing to the Bas-Lag novels.
posted by porpoise at 1:39 PM on March 1, 2012
posted by porpoise at 1:39 PM on March 1, 2012
Fine article, thanks for posting a link to it, timshel. I was especially struck by what Camila Batmanghelidjh said: "I do think that there is something very particular about here."
It seems to me that the British government has responded very differently to the depression than other Western governments, even the right-wing ones. The Tory-Lib Dem coalition seems to take active joy in fucking people over for reasons that make little sense, either politically or in terms of governance. Even Sarkozy, not someone to refrain from dicking people over out of spite, has at least tried to appear like he's trying to help the poor and struggling. Cameron et al. just seem to go out of their way to make things worse for people. Maybe it's the impression I get from reading left-wing rags like The Guardian and The Economist. Either way I've been pretty baffled by the political situation in the UK these last couple of years.
I have a couple of questions. 1) Is my impression incorrect? 2) If that is indeed the situation, why is British political culture so markedly different from the rest of the Western world?
posted by Kattullus at 2:50 PM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]
It seems to me that the British government has responded very differently to the depression than other Western governments, even the right-wing ones. The Tory-Lib Dem coalition seems to take active joy in fucking people over for reasons that make little sense, either politically or in terms of governance. Even Sarkozy, not someone to refrain from dicking people over out of spite, has at least tried to appear like he's trying to help the poor and struggling. Cameron et al. just seem to go out of their way to make things worse for people. Maybe it's the impression I get from reading left-wing rags like The Guardian and The Economist. Either way I've been pretty baffled by the political situation in the UK these last couple of years.
I have a couple of questions. 1) Is my impression incorrect? 2) If that is indeed the situation, why is British political culture so markedly different from the rest of the Western world?
posted by Kattullus at 2:50 PM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]
1) Is my impression incorrect? 2) If that is indeed the situation, why is British political culture so markedly different from the rest of the Western world?
Your impression is correct. My own view is that the recession has given a group of exceptionally spiteful people the in they needed to enact their feudal fantasies. These people didn't get elected on this platform - you have to remember that.
Why these people are the way they are I simply have no idea. Even my right wing friends have recoiled in horror.
posted by Summer at 3:07 PM on March 1, 2012 [2 favorites]
Your impression is correct. My own view is that the recession has given a group of exceptionally spiteful people the in they needed to enact their feudal fantasies. These people didn't get elected on this platform - you have to remember that.
Why these people are the way they are I simply have no idea. Even my right wing friends have recoiled in horror.
posted by Summer at 3:07 PM on March 1, 2012 [2 favorites]
When Iain Sinclair voiced some criticisms of the London Olympics project in an article last summer, the reaction on MetaFilter was mixed, not to say fairly hostile. Since then, of course, we've had the riots, Occupy London, and the public sector strikes. Suddenly urban dystopia is fashionable again.
Mieville's article is good, though his attack on ASBOs is a bit out of date, as ASBOs are about to be scrapped (to be replaced, no doubt, by something equally unworkable, but that's another story). And there's a basic contradiction in his argument, summed up for me in this paragraph:
You want to see how much London hates its young — some of them; “Let’s be honest,” says the writer Owen Jones, “they’re not talking about Etonians” — watch them play music on public transport. Everyday silliness, adolescent thoughtlessness are treated like social collapse. Of which there’s a fair bit going around, true, but does it really inhere in this?
You can argue that da kidz are alrite, or you can argue that London is facing imminent social collapse, but I don't think you can argue both at the same time, as Mieville wants to do. And if he's arguing that 'London' only hates young black kids, I think he's wrong; public opinion can be just as unforgiving of posh boys who break the rules.
posted by verstegan at 3:17 PM on March 1, 2012
Mieville's article is good, though his attack on ASBOs is a bit out of date, as ASBOs are about to be scrapped (to be replaced, no doubt, by something equally unworkable, but that's another story). And there's a basic contradiction in his argument, summed up for me in this paragraph:
You want to see how much London hates its young — some of them; “Let’s be honest,” says the writer Owen Jones, “they’re not talking about Etonians” — watch them play music on public transport. Everyday silliness, adolescent thoughtlessness are treated like social collapse. Of which there’s a fair bit going around, true, but does it really inhere in this?
You can argue that da kidz are alrite, or you can argue that London is facing imminent social collapse, but I don't think you can argue both at the same time, as Mieville wants to do. And if he's arguing that 'London' only hates young black kids, I think he's wrong; public opinion can be just as unforgiving of posh boys who break the rules.
posted by verstegan at 3:17 PM on March 1, 2012
Although I kind of wish I was a badger paralegal.
I not a badger, but I have been a paralegal. The experience would have been exceptionally improved by a thick hide, claws, sharp teeth, and biting.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:18 PM on March 1, 2012 [7 favorites]
I not a badger, but I have been a paralegal. The experience would have been exceptionally improved by a thick hide, claws, sharp teeth, and biting.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:18 PM on March 1, 2012 [7 favorites]
his attack on ASBOs is a bit out of date, as ASBOs are about to be scrapped
I don't think that you can say it's out of date, given Theresa May's proposal - what's is being proposed is just as bad, and the effect is the same:
This is frankly, insane. I am suprised that more ASBO cases don't end up in the European Court of Human Rights. Freedom of speech, free association and a plethora of other human rights are offended.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:29 PM on March 1, 2012 [4 favorites]
I don't think that you can say it's out of date, given Theresa May's proposal - what's is being proposed is just as bad, and the effect is the same:
May will propose five new measures that still give police very wide powers:All of this with a civil, not criminal burden of proof.
• A "criminal behaviour order" that could, for instance, see someone who is convicted of being drunk and disorderly banned from a town centre for two years.
• A civil "crime prevention injunction" which could be obtained within "hours rather than months".
• Court orders to close a property where there has been persistent disorder.
• Fines for people who have been a persistent nuisance and harmed the quality of life in an area.
• A "direction to leave" which will see any individual causing or likely to cause crime directed away from a particular place and "related items" confiscated.
This is frankly, insane. I am suprised that more ASBO cases don't end up in the European Court of Human Rights. Freedom of speech, free association and a plethora of other human rights are offended.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:29 PM on March 1, 2012 [4 favorites]
wish I was a badger paralegal.
This is now stuck in my head to the tune of the Oscar Meyer Weiner song.
posted by nebulawindphone at 3:41 PM on March 1, 2012 [9 favorites]
This is now stuck in my head to the tune of the Oscar Meyer Weiner song.
posted by nebulawindphone at 3:41 PM on March 1, 2012 [9 favorites]
Well, I did say they were about to be replaced by something equally unworkable. But the fact is that ASBOs have been in steady decline for years, which is why the Government is now ditching them and coming up with something new (without, of course, admitting that ASBOs have failed, as this would be bad politics and unpopular with the Daily Mail). So Mieville's attack on them does seem rather belated, as does the surprise of some people in this thread on discovering that ASBOs exist at all.
posted by verstegan at 3:49 PM on March 1, 2012
posted by verstegan at 3:49 PM on March 1, 2012
Verstegan, with respect to the abrasive kids and their cell phones: Honestly, all day, I have been re-imagining this bit with AM transistor radios standing in for phones. Obnoxious adolescence is not a threat to the social order. As much as we may have wished it were at 16.
posted by mwhybark at 5:28 PM on March 1, 2012
posted by mwhybark at 5:28 PM on March 1, 2012
El Sabor Asiatico: "I hope this isn't too off-topic, but I've never actually read one of Miéville's books. Does anyone have a recommendation for where a new reader should start?"
I personally think his most powerful book is Iron Council. I both love and hate this book. It somehow created a spot for itself in my brain, and while I've read hundreds of books subsequently; it lurks there... That said; lots and lots of people hate that book, and gave up on China because of it. It is baroque, and heavy, and ultra-violent in spots. It is a nod to the 1917 "Train to Revolution" of the Bolsheviks, in a steaming broth of War on Terror, garnished with a dash of ambiguity about the necessity of myths. It's brilliant.
As to the article; as an American anglophile that loves the remembered London of her youth, this makes me sad. I can't understand why anyone would want the Olympics, it seems more a curse than blessing. And to dedicate tax funds to this giant circus - while throwing people who paid taxes out into the street - because circus has raised property values...is a whole new level of kafkaesque irony.
When a country's leaders make calls for austerity; and say that the common man must do without food and shelter, in order for the country to throw giant parties for the Queen's coronation anniversary, or spend 14billion dollars to build a bunch of buildings that will go unused for lack of maintenance funding...then those leaders cannot be surprised with the hungry and homeless get a little cranky. Restless. Twitchy around flame.
posted by dejah420 at 10:25 PM on March 1, 2012 [4 favorites]
I personally think his most powerful book is Iron Council. I both love and hate this book. It somehow created a spot for itself in my brain, and while I've read hundreds of books subsequently; it lurks there... That said; lots and lots of people hate that book, and gave up on China because of it. It is baroque, and heavy, and ultra-violent in spots. It is a nod to the 1917 "Train to Revolution" of the Bolsheviks, in a steaming broth of War on Terror, garnished with a dash of ambiguity about the necessity of myths. It's brilliant.
As to the article; as an American anglophile that loves the remembered London of her youth, this makes me sad. I can't understand why anyone would want the Olympics, it seems more a curse than blessing. And to dedicate tax funds to this giant circus - while throwing people who paid taxes out into the street - because circus has raised property values...is a whole new level of kafkaesque irony.
When a country's leaders make calls for austerity; and say that the common man must do without food and shelter, in order for the country to throw giant parties for the Queen's coronation anniversary, or spend 14billion dollars to build a bunch of buildings that will go unused for lack of maintenance funding...then those leaders cannot be surprised with the hungry and homeless get a little cranky. Restless. Twitchy around flame.
posted by dejah420 at 10:25 PM on March 1, 2012 [4 favorites]
I have a couple of questions. 1) Is my impression incorrect? 2) If that is indeed the situation, why is British political culture so markedly different from the rest of the Western world?
To try to answer neutrally: there's two possible responses to the economic downturn; either austerity, cut spending and keep the deficit down, which in theory means investors stay confident in the country, it is still able to borrow money at low rates, and so on. Which means' there's money for companies to borrow, and invest, which creates jobs. Or the government starts spending a lot of money on stimulus programmes to keep people from being unemployed. So the US has obviously done the latter, and the impression I get is that it mostly worked (though some argue Obama should have spent a lot more). On the other hand, the UK's gone for austerity and maintaining its credit rating, albeit at the cost of jobs. I am in no way smart enough to say that either option was wrong, but my personal sympathies are definitely with Obama's approach.
And all that said: one suspects that in a crisis politicians will do whatever they would have done anyway, and justify it by reference to one of those two arguments.
[Not sure the UK is the only country doing this, though: Greece is obviously being forced to, and Portugal and Ireland (and Spain?) are effectively being forced to.]
posted by Infinite Jest at 1:43 AM on March 2, 2012 [3 favorites]
To try to answer neutrally: there's two possible responses to the economic downturn; either austerity, cut spending and keep the deficit down, which in theory means investors stay confident in the country, it is still able to borrow money at low rates, and so on. Which means' there's money for companies to borrow, and invest, which creates jobs. Or the government starts spending a lot of money on stimulus programmes to keep people from being unemployed. So the US has obviously done the latter, and the impression I get is that it mostly worked (though some argue Obama should have spent a lot more). On the other hand, the UK's gone for austerity and maintaining its credit rating, albeit at the cost of jobs. I am in no way smart enough to say that either option was wrong, but my personal sympathies are definitely with Obama's approach.
And all that said: one suspects that in a crisis politicians will do whatever they would have done anyway, and justify it by reference to one of those two arguments.
[Not sure the UK is the only country doing this, though: Greece is obviously being forced to, and Portugal and Ireland (and Spain?) are effectively being forced to.]
posted by Infinite Jest at 1:43 AM on March 2, 2012 [3 favorites]
Some of you may recall China recently stuck a groundbreaking piece of photo-reportage on the web, London's Overthrow, a psychogeographical investigation of the night-streets of the capital he loves. Spool Pidgin asked if he'd do the same for its own midlands home town, Leicester...
Leicester's Overdone by China Mieville
posted by Artw at 10:00 AM on March 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
Leicester's Overdone by China Mieville
posted by Artw at 10:00 AM on March 25, 2012 [1 favorite]
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posted by fight or flight at 4:18 AM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]