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"Hey, I'll call you."
March 1, 2012 12:43 PM   Subscribe

Wondering why that special someone you met the other night never got back to you after the first date? Maybe you were a wee bit too forward - or maybe the fifty-odd messages you sent in 24 hours ended up being hilariously, dramatically read on-air by New Zealand's Fletch and Vaughn. (Just maybe a hair NSFW.)
posted by mdonley (107 comments total) 18 users marked this as a favorite

 
Eh, I don't know how I feel about this.

If it's real, it represents someone who has serious problems relating to people in a healthy way, and I guess making fun of desperate, lonely people doesn't seem funny to me.
posted by jcreigh at 1:00 PM on March 1, 2012 [37 favorites]


Pop quiz: who is more socially maladjusted?

__ Someone who is prone to overemotive, serial texting after a one night stand.

__ Someone who thinks its funny to post screenshots of private text messages so that the internet can make fun of someone they just slept with.
posted by googly at 1:04 PM on March 1, 2012 [32 favorites]


I almost dated a girl just like this, but her prone to histrionics flip outs that were so eerily similar and warned me off.

In fact, this might be the same girl. It really, really, really might be. Is that you, Nadia!?!?!
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 1:07 PM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


So that's what it's like getting an email from me. Huh.
posted by maxwelton at 1:07 PM on March 1, 2012 [6 favorites]


And it doesn't have a name or any identifiable information linked to it so whatever. Something tells me nothing this girl does is actually "private".
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 1:08 PM on March 1, 2012


Every online dater's worst nightmare. Comforting to know that other people have had worse experiences than mine.
posted by Melismata at 1:09 PM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


I've been on the receiving end of this before. Went on two or three dates and then had to travel for work. Told the person I was seeing that if I made it home at a reasonable hour I'd give them a call, otherwise I'd call them the next day since my cell phone was about out of juice and the charger was at home.

I get home late, plug in my phone and see that I have seventy-four text messages and a dozen voice mails. They started off reasonable, a comment about how she hoped my phone wasn't dead yet so I'd get the text. Then it seems she forgot that my phone was dead and began getting angry that I wasn't responding. It culminated in a shrieking voice-mail about how her friends now think that she had made me up and that she hated everything about me, hoped I died in a violent manner, got any number of STDs (in that order? I'm not sure.) and generally lived a miserable life without her. It was... pretty intense.
posted by Loto at 1:10 PM on March 1, 2012 [13 favorites]


I don't often get nostalgic for the Good Olde Days; but wouldn't it be nice to see Kev horsewhipped through the streets by this woman's older brother?
posted by steambadger at 1:17 PM on March 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


Not funny, and we probably wouldn't be seeing it online for the lulz if the genders were reversed or if the tone had become threatening instead of just sad.

If there's any upside, it's a caution to others to keep their dating communications offline as much as possible.

Of course, there's no proof that any of this actually took place, but sadly, it probably did.
posted by Currer Belfry at 1:29 PM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


The genders were reversed over ten years ago in the movie Swingers and it was completely played for laughs and we even got to hear the woman say "don't ever call me again" at the end.
posted by stinkycheese at 1:33 PM on March 1, 2012 [8 favorites]


Saw this shoot to the top of Reddit, powered by the community's hatred of women and desire to make them look unreasonable for not dating them the way they want. I think this one is cruel for no good reason.
posted by steinsaltz at 1:33 PM on March 1, 2012 [16 favorites]


The genders were reversed over ten years ago in the movie Swingers and it was completely played for laughs and we even got to hear the woman say "don't ever call me again" at the end.

That scene was incredible. It was a laughing yet crying moment for me, as it hit a bit too close to home - I could hardly watch it as I was literally wincing, yet laughing at it.

It was the perfect wake up call I needed to never make calls like that again.
posted by MysticMCJ at 1:36 PM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


I think this is extremely cruel too, the girl had her heart broken by a callous guy who was only interested in her for sex. Her reaction and the emotions she displays are pretty standard and completely understandable. She probably shouldn't have slept with the guy on the first date but might have only done it because of insecurity. I think everyone criticising her online is being extraordinarily cruel and vicious and heartless, and should be ashamed of themselves.
posted by rubber duck at 1:40 PM on March 1, 2012


Her reaction is anything but "standard and completely understandable"! Good lord, don't ever act like this.
posted by The Lamplighter at 1:42 PM on March 1, 2012 [17 favorites]


I think it's possible to feel bad for a troubled person and also publicly point out unacceptable behavior as unacceptable. Also, any extremely inappropriate behavior will strike some people as funny. Some people will laugh at this, some will secretly wince with recognition, having been on one or both sides of something like this.

When I read these, I heard them in the voice of Glenn Close in "Fatal Attraction."
posted by hermitosis at 1:43 PM on March 1, 2012 [3 favorites]


OnTheLastCastle, I believe her name is "Tracie". Or "Terri". I forget. Anyway, she flirted with me once on Match, and after 6 messages overnight (while I slept), I blocked her.

She turned out to be besties with the next lady from Match I asked out... and was a complete bitch when we all coincided at a bar on our 2nd date. The contrast in behavior between CrazyAngryStalkerGirl, and me, earned me points that night.
posted by IAmBroom at 1:43 PM on March 1, 2012


I went to the bar one night and had one of those painfully good nights. After the inebriation kicked in, I ended up talking all night to a lady I had met. We exchanged numbers with her last words being text me. Couple of days later I call her a couple times and there is no answer. Finally I break down and send a text message.

Right away I get a text back "Did you forget I was deaf?"
posted by I love you more when I eat paint chips at 1:45 PM on March 1, 2012 [37 favorites]


Also I get creeped out by people who let you know early on what a "big heart" they have. It's like a warning shot to let you know you're about to be emotionally smothered.

It's similar to the aversion I feel when someone self-identifies as an "old soul," or even worse, lets you know that others have referred to them as having an "old soul."
posted by hermitosis at 1:46 PM on March 1, 2012 [22 favorites]


I think this is extremely cruel too, the girl had her heart broken by a callous guy who was only interested in her for sex. Her reaction and the emotions she displays are pretty standard and completely understandable.

Steps away from rubber duck and waits for the white van to pull up...

(Hint: there's no evidence that he wasn't interested in a real relationship, until Batshit McTextalot went all psycho on him.)
posted by IAmBroom at 1:47 PM on March 1, 2012 [17 favorites]


the girl had her heart broken by a callous guy who was only interested in her for sex

If you actually read 1/4 of that spew and think someone getting that emotionally invested then that psychotic after sleeping with someone on the first date is "standard and completely understandable" then.........fuck, you're probably that girl.

[steps back slowly...avoids eye contact...looks for escape]
posted by kjs3 at 1:54 PM on March 1, 2012 [3 favorites]


Her reaction and the emotions she displays are pretty standard and completely understandable.

No, she's pretty clearly not stable, assuming the whole thing isn't a hoax. I cling stubbornly, however, to the outdated belief that it's not okay to publicly humiliate people for being unstable.

Also, it might not be safe...
posted by steambadger at 1:57 PM on March 1, 2012 [3 favorites]


Oh FFS, I saw this on Reddit days ago too and as a woman, I empathized with the man because I have had this happen to me, my male AND female friends and I've been that psycho bitch. I was a teenager with a cell phone, and that's what happens with cell phones and emotions. I'm confused where this is somehow a violation of her privacy as her name or number was never given out.

This behavior -- whether mental illness or not -- needs to be shunned. It is inappropriate, ineffective and the offender knows exactly what they're doing and how much guilt they're shoveling on in order to get the victim to give in. It's not okay to share stories with people about harassment now? Because this wasn't rape, it's seen as "cruel"?

The underlying context of the thread was "don't stick your ________ in crazy," and spun off a bunch of similar stories and situations that will probably help a lot of people who will find themselves in this situation down the road.

And as much as I hate on Reddit for all of the troll accounts, the "OH GOD ITS REDDIT BURN IT AT THE STAKE" mentality this place has -- especially since it lifts so much content from it -- is really old and unnecessary. You're probably unaware of just how much content you're reading about spawned from or was promoted by Reddit. You're probably also forgetting how much it is helping get the word out about science and engineering to teenagers and young adults that need and want to hear it.
posted by june made him a gemini at 2:00 PM on March 1, 2012 [13 favorites]


It is kind of weird that we live in a world where pretending to show romantic interest in someone in order to share an intimate act, and then subsequently blowing them off forever, is considered normal courting behavior. I mean, if this was the Victorian age, we'd all be ringing our hands about how that cad ruined her entire life and her family's social standing for generations, and then had the temerity to go play cards.

But I mean, it's not the Victorian age, so, yikes. Read the era, girl.
posted by crackingdes at 2:09 PM on March 1, 2012 [8 favorites]


I don't see why this is sexist? Men do this more often in my experience. Just yesterday I read the 100s of insane Facebook messages some guy sent a friend of mine. Right before showing her how to block people!
posted by fshgrl at 2:11 PM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I just assumed this was going to be a guy calling. I was actually relieved when it turned out to be a woman.
posted by stinkycheese at 2:16 PM on March 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


It's similar to the aversion I feel when someone self-identifies as an "old soul," or even worse, lets you know that others have referred to them as having an "old soul."

Oh my god, that's my fucking FAVORITE. It's the perfect storm of unfalsifiability, braggadocio, self-defined "specialness", and seen-it-all-ness. If I was a braver man and/or less inclined to engage in good faith, I would say this to all new acquaintances just to see what kinds of reactions I got.
posted by Greg Nog at 2:20 PM on March 1, 2012 [15 favorites]


It is kind of weird that we live in a world where pretending to show romantic interest in someone in order to share an intimate act, and then subsequently blowing them off forever, is considered normal courting behavior.

This kind of behavior has been happening since the beginning of time. If we could fix it, we'd be gazillionaires. It starts around, oh, age 13 or so. Anyone who doesn't know someone who has experienced this kind of behavior from one side or the other, raise your hand.

You're right that it's indeed weird, but it also seems to be what the evolutionary cards have dealt us.
posted by Melismata at 2:23 PM on March 1, 2012 [3 favorites]


It is kind of weird that we live in a world where pretending to show romantic interest in someone in order to share an intimate act, and then subsequently blowing them off forever, is considered normal courting behavior.

Well, there's no evidence thats what happened here... exchange starts normally, he stops responding for a while (busy, perhaps) and then she goes crazy.

I guess the narrative above is considered so normal for guys that everyone just assumes that is what is going on? Because I don't see any evidence that this started as anything other than a normal date / post-date communication.

Of course, it might have been that. But there's no info / context here to judge that...
posted by wildcrdj at 2:27 PM on March 1, 2012 [4 favorites]


It is kind of weird that we live in a world where pretending to show romantic interest in someone in order to share an intimate act, and then subsequently blowing them off forever, is considered normal courting behavior. I mean, if this was the Victorian age, we'd all be ringing our hands about how that cad ruined her entire life and her family's social standing for generations, and then had the temerity to go play cards.

I think you're betraying an odd but key misreading, shared by a couple other people in this thread.

You seem to think that what happened is that the guy slept with her and blew off her subsequent attempts to get together, and afterwards she reacted poorly. But based on the evidence before us, that's not what happened at all. What actually happened is that they slept together, and right after getting home the woman bombards the man with texts about getting together, immediately assumes he is lying about his plans for the following day, and casts him as the latest male villain in her personal persecution drama.

For all we know, if she had just texted once "Hey I had a good time let's do that again," they would be going steady now.

But all of that said, it is distasteful and mean to share all of this with the world -- for all her apparent faults, this woman is obviously hurting; why add insult to injury? I was also surprised to learn that the unhinged one here was female. On my Internet, men are much more often subjected to this kind of shaming. I think we indulge it because it's okay to make fun of guys who can't get laid; they are considered lesser people. Here, we gawk at a stream of texts that includes the message, "I have no friends." It's a cruel and predictable form of picking on the weak.
posted by grobstein at 2:27 PM on March 1, 2012 [6 favorites]


In my day, we didn't have smart phones or texting. We just walked down to the Western Union and yelled our complaints, misgivings and insecurities through the holes in the clerk's window. It was loud, annoying and we liked it that way. In my day, when we got bored and lonely, we just twiddled our thumbs, instead of sending messages with them. We didn't get enough calcium and our thumb joints were fused stiff by age twenty. We were frail, arthritic and miserable and we liked it that way.

ok, I'll stop.
posted by obscurator at 2:28 PM on March 1, 2012 [7 favorites]


I realize there's not enough info from this text exchange to determine whether or not Kevin ever intended to call her back. I guess I read it as being kind of irrelevant. If he never ever planned to see her again, whatever, his behavior is still pretty normal, her behavior is still unhinged. If he did plan to see her again, it's even more sad, since she's apparently experienced such abandonment and isolation in her life that she pushes away normal opportunities to connect.
posted by crackingdes at 2:39 PM on March 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


I seriously have to doubt that if the genders were reversed here and it was a guy doing things like this and sending "I'm waiting for you at your house" messages that we would be condemning the recipient as obviously cruel for getting documentation of what's happening out on record in public.
posted by XMLicious at 2:43 PM on March 1, 2012 [9 favorites]


That's a good point.

I was going to say, if this had been a guy, we wouldn't have said he was "crazy", we'd have said he was a loser. But his effectively, er, stalking her (?) - I suppose there's few better illustrations of power differentials than "I'm waiting for you outside your house in my car" - would make him the worst and most laughable kind of man: the creepy loser.
posted by stinkycheese at 2:53 PM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


Wait, nobody has commented on either the intolerability of either morning-show banter or New Zealand accents?
posted by entropone at 3:01 PM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


Actually that was obnoxious what I said about New Zealand accents. Nevermind and sorry. Where's the edit button?
posted by entropone at 3:02 PM on March 1, 2012


Yeah this series of messages - likely fake - is shitheadedness of the highest order. If it all went down as texted this fucking asshole guy "Kevin" should have given her a straight answer long before her horrible meltdown. I think it's really really shitty and "Kevin" needs to have his nards stomped on until he chokes on his own sick.
posted by tumid dahlia at 3:03 PM on March 1, 2012


There exists the potential to call a significant degree of bullshit.

As you know, on an iphone, there exist four features that may directly relate to this story:
1) text messages (as we see very clearly)
2) the ability to selectively delete text messages (as we very clearly would not see)
3) phone calls (as we also do not see)
4) emails (which, further, we do not see)

When I first read the transcript (or heard it from those Kiwi jackasses), I felt there was a missing piece to the story. It just doesn't seem plausible that after one date, we get this avalanche. It's possible, sure, but it just doesn't seem plausible. Perhaps that's what makes it funny.

I call bullshit and think this guy probably provoked her in some way that exists outside of the text message chain as published. Or it's a stunt. Doubt it's real. Not much to see here.
posted by nickrussell at 3:04 PM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


Disagree, tumid dahlia. It's pretty standard online that silence is a polite way of saying "no, thanks." The reason for this is self-preservation: had he answered earlier, he might have invited even more crazy. (I've seen it happen, arguments that go into eternity because the injured party won't take no for an answer.)
posted by Melismata at 3:06 PM on March 1, 2012


"Kevin" needs to have his nards stomped on until he chokes on his own sick.

One or two stomps at most should do it, I'd imagine.
posted by stinkycheese at 3:08 PM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


Disagree, tumid dahlia. It's pretty standard online that silence is a polite way of saying "no, thanks."

I know. But, assuming this Chronology Of A Psychotic Break is a True and Real thing, "Kevin" should have fucking well manned up long before the point where he did. There's three days worth of text messages in there. THREE DAYS.
posted by tumid dahlia at 3:16 PM on March 1, 2012


Linking back through youtube, to buzzfeed, to pleatedjeans, it looks like this started with this Reddit post and that there is another 72 screenshots worth of crazy
posted by kovacs at 3:25 PM on March 1, 2012 [6 favorites]


All right, when I was in high school, I was obsessed with this one girl that I'd had an off-again/on-again thing with. I called her a bunch and could never get in touch with her because this was before answering machines were ubiquitous.

So, I did what any reasonable insane teenager would do and wrote her like fifteen obsessive letters/poems lamenting that she wasn't getting in touch with me. I drove to her family's house in the middle of the night and left them in her mailbox. Then I went home.

Laying in bed that night, I had enough time to reflect on how crazy and stupid that was, so I drove back to pick the letters up. By the time I got there, I'd worked myself into another tizzy about how I'd not heard from her and decided to leave them in the mailbox after all.

I went home and immediately started feeling like a moron for not taking the letters back with me, but by then I was exhausted and my parents were concerned that I kept leaving the house in the middle of the night.

Anyhow, I woke up the next morning convinced my life was over because I'd not reclaimed the letters. I heard nothing from her for like a week and was wallowing in adolescent insanity and depression.

Rather than sharing my crazy stupid letters with the world, this girl, this wonderful girl, returned them all to me with a note explaining very sweetly that she appreciated how I felt for her but that she just wasn't interested. She even complimented my poems.

In all sincerity, my heart break was more than mitigated by my relief at having all that horrible, horrible teen angst back in my possession.

That was not the only time I went teenage love crazy overboard. It was the most egregious.

Holy shit, if I had text messaging back then - or indeed into my mid-20's - I would have written things in a fit of passion to people much less amazing than this young lady and been unable to ever show my face in public again.

Kids these days - they don't know how easy we had it back before every single stupid thing we did became easy to preserve and share forever.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:25 PM on March 1, 2012 [23 favorites]


Seeing that follow-up...yeah, maybe it is fake.
posted by Melismata at 3:29 PM on March 1, 2012


I saw this on autocowrecks last week (don't judge me).

My thing about these Facebook/text fail things is that it's impossible to verify whether or not anything is real. If this is fake (which I think it is), it's not that funny. If it's real, it's just sad. (It doesn't seem to me like any of his texts were deleted though. It seems like she is reacting to radio silence.)

Not funny, and we probably wouldn't be seeing it online for the lulz if the genders were reversed or if the tone had become threatening instead of just sad.

...

The genders were reversed over ten years ago in the movie Swingers and it was completely played for laughs and we even got to hear the woman say "don't ever call me again" at the end.

I kinda hated that movie, but good ZING!

It is kind of weird that we live in a world where pretending to show romantic interest in someone in order to share an intimate act, and then subsequently blowing them off forever

That's not what happened here. Dude responded, and even said "I'll text you later" and then responds to a few more texts.

Then 17 text messages come in the next 3 hours, including one that says "Please delete my phone number" ... followed by an avalanche of messages.***

You're gonna respond in the middle of the nutso behavior? Honestly? I would be afraid of this woman.

If it all went down as texted this fucking asshole guy "Kevin" should have given her a straight answer long before her horrible meltdown.

He said "I'll text you later" and "yes, i was invited to play cards after you left and before you texted" ... then she says "please delete my phone number."

As soon as she said "please delete my phone number" I would and never talk to her again. Which is what he did.

I thought it was courteous of him (if real) to even provide the "I don't think I feel comfortable seeing u again" at the end.

And as much as I hate on Reddit for all of the troll accounts, the "OH GOD ITS REDDIT BURN IT AT THE STAKE" mentality this place has -- especially since it lifts so much content from it -- is really old and unnecessary.

Regardless of where it came from, it's still a shitty post.
posted by mrgrimm at 3:42 PM on March 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


The best combination for popcorn is when you get two (or even three) people who are both psycho-obsessive-stalker acting like this.

"Where the fuck were you last night?"

"Home."

"I called you 37 times!!!"

"I was depressed so I didn't pick up. Besides I saw that that fuck-wad Jeremy commented on your wall."

"He's my friend."

"You're probably fucking him!"

"Well, you're probably fucking your friend Kevin; I know you're secretly gay by the way."

...
posted by gagglezoomer at 3:44 PM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


Okay, this is pretty much an awful thing to be on the Internet.
posted by Apropos of Something at 3:47 PM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


"Kevin" should have fucking well manned up long before the point where he did. There's three days worth of text messages in there. THREE DAYS.

Since when is engaging with people that are obviously acting weird and creepy the right thing to do? The conventional wisdom from sources like The Gift of Fear is that you should cut off contact because nothing good can come from contacting them.

I call bullshit and think this guy probably provoked her in some way that exists outside of the text message chain as published.

It's either completely fake or she has serious mental issues. She switched back and forth between telling him he was great and that he was terrible, and camped out outside his house all night, "accidentally" texted him about a male friend being with her and a date she had planned, etc. There's no reasonable explanation for how that behavior could be provoked.

It just doesn't seem plausible that after one date, we get this avalanche. It's possible, sure, but it just doesn't seem plausible. Perhaps that's what makes it funny.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people (both male and female) who really go off the deep end in these sorts of situations. I've heard of someone getting harassed through an online dating site because they rejected someone's initial contact message, without even actually meeting in real life. Some people get really unhealthily attached to people they don't know very well or even complete strangers.
posted by burnmp3s at 3:47 PM on March 1, 2012 [4 favorites]


It's similar to the aversion I feel when someone self-identifies as an "old soul," or even worse, lets you know that others have referred to them as having an "old soul."

Oh my god, that's my fucking FAVORITE. It's the perfect storm of unfalsifiability, braggadocio, self-defined "specialness", and seen-it-all-ness. If I was a braver man and/or less inclined to engage in good faith, I would say this to all new acquaintances just to see what kinds of reactions I got.


Get out of my head!
posted by Pickman's Next Top Model at 4:12 PM on March 1, 2012


Not funny, doesn't matter if it's made up or not. Just sad. Really shitty behavior, and I don't mean on her part. She's weird and emotionally needy but mean is much worse and that's what this is.

It's not okay to share stories with people about harassment now? Because this wasn't rape, it's seen as "cruel"?

This is a really uncharitable reading. There's a world of difference between people who have suffered trauma sharing their stories with each other and public mockery of the weak. This is someone hurting who is emotionally off balance. Making her into an object of scorn probably isn't helping.

If Kevin is freaked out by this and wants to talk it over with someone, maybe share a laugh or two about it, he has options besides broadcasting it to the world.

-----

I seriously have to doubt that if the genders were reversed here and it was a guy doing things like this and sending "I'm waiting for you at your house" messages that we would be condemning the recipient as obviously cruel for getting documentation of what's happening out on record in public.

I don't know about that. Membership in the so-called "oppressor" class doesn't erode the compassion of everyone in the audience. When they're not showing any malice or harmful intent I feel sorry for the clueless men who are lost in their emotional reactions. Doesn't mean the men and women who are being pestered should go out and "meet them halfway"; they shouldn't. But getting it out in public, and we're talking here about a morning radio show not public like restraining order, isn't about staying safe.
posted by BigSky at 4:18 PM on March 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


This is a tired old internet hoax. It's like the old psychoexgirlfriend.com which was also revealed to be a hoax. iPhone text messages can be faked easily on any number of websites.
posted by charlie don't surf at 4:18 PM on March 1, 2012 [3 favorites]


But, assuming this Chronology Of A Psychotic Break is a True and Real thing, "Kevin" should have fucking well manned up long before the point where he did.

After he said his friends asked him at 10AM to play cards that night, she says "please delete my number". Then she started texting him like mad. He did the right thing to not respond.
posted by King Bee at 4:18 PM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


What difference does it make whether this particular example is real or not, in the big picture? Does anyone doubt this sort of thing goes on?
posted by stinkycheese at 4:26 PM on March 1, 2012


@burnmp3: There's a favourite photograph from an undergraduate photography course -- a commentary on the limitations of the photographic frame. I have not found it since that large book in the classroom, seemingly an age ago, thus I have recreated it for you in brief here.

A commentary on the limitations of the photographic frame, redux

The point is that we see 1) a fork, 2) a spoon, and 3) a handle. What is at the end of the handle? Is it a fork or a spoon? From the content as presented, you can only make a guess. Perhaps you think there is a contour similar to the fork. Or to the spoon. Or is it that miscreant, the knife? Each makes sense, for you have seen one fork and one spoon, thus logically it should be one of them. However in a matched set, it very well may be that elusive fellow, the knife.

Point being that I have edited the situation so that I know what the third utensil is, and you simply have no way of knowing. Based on the limited information provided, you have absolutely no way to come to a rational conclusion, thus any position taken will remain conjecture.

Perhaps she went off the deep end (your position; the spoon) or he is a wanky tosser that pulled a trick (my position; the fork). Or perhaps it is all a fabrication done collaboratively for a laugh (the knife).

Thus, I offer the wisdom of Richard Linklater on the teenage mind, vintage 1993:

Tony: Oh Mike I forgot to tell you about this dream I had last night.
Mike: Oh yeah, why's that?
Tony: But, you've got to promise not to tell anyone okay?
Mike: Yeah, sure.
Tony: No say "I promise".
Mike: Oh Jesus. I promise not to tell anyone.
Tony: Okay, thank you.
Mike: Welcome. They stop walking.
Tony: Well, okay, there I am, you know, and I'm getting it on, you know, with what has this perfect female body.
Mike: Uh-huh.
Tony: But…
Mike: What? What, what?
Tony: I can't say.
Mike: Come on man, you can't give a build up like that and not deliver. Right. Come on, a perfect female body. It's not a bad start.
Tony: But the head of Abraham Lincoln.
Mike: Ah.
Tony: I mean the hat and the beard. Oh well, let's not think too deeply on this one right?
Mike: Best not.
posted by nickrussell at 4:37 PM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


Kids these days - they don't know how easy we had it back before every single stupid thing we did became easy to preserve and share forever.

Oh, I promise you, we've got an idea.

Before 2005 or so, sophomore year in high school, things were okay, because cell phones weren't very good at texting and nobody but we nerdly forumgoers knew what the Internet was. Then came fucking MySpace, with its photo galleries and private messaging and, worst, the Broadcasts, which sent out a message to all your friends (keep in mind this was before Facebook and Twitter and the "feed", so that was the only dynamically updating thing on the homepage). Those Broadcasts led to desperate attempts on my part to express my deep, soulful loneliness, tactfully hinting at the identity of the girl I pined for. Only I didn't entirely trust the girl in question to figure out tricky stuff, so the tactful hints were more like blatant sirens.

Of course, that girl, being beautiful and social and all the things I wasn't, didn't give two shits about MySpace, and in the end everybody but her figured out what was going on and who I was pining for. It was a disaster only eclipsed by Facebook and its fucking labyrinthine series of wall posts, likes, pokes, and messages. The simplicity of the design made writing lengthy letters to anybody I happened to crush on way too easy. Shit was not good. But the occasional poke-fight leading to a hookup kept me optimistic and idiotic.

Once phones got decent keyboards, text messaging became yet another minefield. What better way to tell a girl you want to be in love with her than with a ten-text paean that interrupted whatever casual thing she was doing that day? And on top of that was actually getting her phone number, which, for a misanthropic then-introvert, was excruciating. I'd blush so hard asking for a number that blood would start leaking out the pores.

Every so often, my girlfriend will send me two text-messages-worth of "I want to explain the way I'm thinking about you", immediately followed by an apology for being so long-winded and obsessive. I find this endlessly amusing, because she has utterly no idea of what it means to be digitally obsessive over somebody. Luckily for me Facebook preserves every message I ever send, so I've got proof of my horrible, horrible teenage romances.
posted by Rory Marinich at 4:44 PM on March 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


This makes me so very happy that there weren't cell phones when I was growing up. I could have easily been on either side of this.
posted by Splunge at 4:45 PM on March 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


Batshit McTextalot

Like.
posted by freakazoid at 4:46 PM on March 1, 2012


What difference does it make whether this particular example is real or not, in the big picture?

1. Why is it a post?
2. What the fuck are we supposed to talk about?

"Shit, some women are crazy"?

This makes me so very happy that there weren't cell phones when I was growing up. I could have easily been on either side of this.

Ok, there's something to talk about, I guess. Nobody writes notes anymore? Shit, even my wife gets nervous when I write very personal emails to her. I'm not even that paranoid, but even I write down notes when I wouldn't want the whole world (or Google) to see it.

(Sure, a written note could easy get scanned and posted to imgur just as easily, but somehow I don't see that happening that much.)

The whole world is listening, yo.
posted by mrgrimm at 4:51 PM on March 1, 2012


Point being that I have edited the situation so that I know what the third utensil is, and you simply have no way of knowing. Based on the limited information provided, you have absolutely no way to come to a rational conclusion, thus any position taken will remain conjecture.

Have you read the second half linked above? She threatens to kill herself and says she is pregnant with his child. I completely agree that it could be fake, but there is absolutely no possible way that this is selective editing of a perfectly normal person's texts.
posted by burnmp3s at 4:54 PM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


I'm always surprised how often I feel really glad that I'm not thirty years younger these days.

Between all this internet nonsense and the amazingly huge student loans some of you kids have, the cards you have been dealt just do not always seem that great.
posted by freakazoid at 4:55 PM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


Rory Marinich, I feel your pain so hard and am grateful forever that everyone who could reveal my hideous teenage and young adult behavior can't talk because I killed them.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:05 PM on March 1, 2012


@burnmp3: Now I see three girls sitting around taking the piss out of this fellow, scaring him stupid that he has psychofied a girl he bedded.

I call the highest degree of bullshit, and with that, I am done paying attention to whatever this is, either a sad statement on the intersection of technology and humanity, or a prank.
posted by nickrussell at 5:06 PM on March 1, 2012


Oh man I have totally been this girl. I have also been plagued by a guy in this way. I hate hate hate the ease of texting. It is so easy to release your moment of crazy on the world without thinking. If texting weren't available maybe there would be more moments of reflecting on things first. Granted this is an extreme example, but the ease of texting really seems to make the crazy more likely. I can just see this girl thinking, oh shit I should not have sent this, here I will send this and that will fix it, of shit I should not have sent that, I will send this and that will fix it, in an endless loop.
posted by Belle O'Cosity at 5:32 PM on March 1, 2012


Luckily for me Facebook preserves every message I ever send, so I've got proof of my horrible, horrible teenage romances.

Are you THAT Rory Marinich?
posted by steambadger at 5:50 PM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


Are you THAT Rory Marinich?

...oh. Hi Emily.
posted by Rory Marinich at 5:52 PM on March 1, 2012 [7 favorites]


Oh god, I just went through all the screens and towards the end she starts claiming she's pregnant.

I can't watch the YouTube right now to check, but damn, I HOPE HE CALLED THE DAMN COPS AFTER THIS.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:27 PM on March 1, 2012


I suppose there's few better illustrations of power differentials than "I'm waiting for you outside your house in my car" - would make him the worst and most laughable kind of man: the creepy loser.

i think you're trying to say he's a creep loser because he's a man and shouldn't be afraid of a girl. is that what you're saying, and not in sarcasm? because, it seems very sexist. what if she had a gun?
posted by cupcake1337 at 7:36 PM on March 1, 2012


That said, I hadn't read the whole thing until just now and it is pretty calling-the-cops-ish. I've been there.
posted by steinsaltz at 7:53 PM on March 1, 2012


cupcake1337: You've quoted me in a rather strange way and I'm afraid you've got me all wrong. I'm not trying to say such a hypothetical man leaving such messages is a creepy loser at all, just the opposite. Like a lot of folks here, I relate all too well with being (or coming across as) too familiar too early.

I'm saying: when a man does the 'too many messages' thing, society is apt to consider him a loser, rather than mentally disturbed, as was the case with this "crazy" woman.

The detail about her spending the night outside his place in her car is a separate issue. This is where the power differential comes in. If a man did that, there's not a doubt in my mind he'd be thrashed by most people online and all kinds of dire scenarios and anecdotes would be presented to reinforce the seriousness of such an action (he might well be arrested in such a theoretical situation); as it is, keeping in mind the person sitting in the car outside the house overnight was a woman, that detail has barely been mentioned. Why?

And guns? Good grief. They never entered my mind, period. Perhaps because I live in Canada? I don't really even understand your statement - it sounds like you're saying the hypothetical male person in the car should be afraid of this hypothetical female person in the house because the woman might have a gun - and that *really* doesn't make sense to me because nobody in either the events posted or my sexes-reversed scenario is interested in shooting anyone. One person wants communication and the other doesn't...

Guns? WTF?
posted by stinkycheese at 8:53 PM on March 1, 2012


What the fuck is a tick's mussage?
posted by obiwanwasabi at 11:03 PM on March 1, 2012


I'm saying: when a man does the 'too many messages' thing, society is apt to consider him a loser, rather than mentally disturbed, as was the case with this "crazy" woman.

You might be right about "society" if you mean the idiot news media or some such, but if anyone sent *me* these texts, I'd be terrified. I've known too many women who've been stalked, harassed, assaulted, etc., to not take stuff like this seriously. And I agree with burnmp3s upthread who referenced The Gift Of Fear --- this is classic GOF territory.

And of course, it's no different if it's a woman sending the messages (except a woman is probably smaller, so if she doesn't have a weapon she's marginally less scary compared with a man). The sender is obviously mentally ill, and it's sad. That said, I can imagine in our culture a guy sharing this out of unease, but presenting it as funny/WTF :-/
posted by Susan PG at 11:47 PM on March 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


(I'm Canadian too, stinkycheese, and reading this I worried immediately about whether she has a gun. That may be a gender thing not a nationality thing :-/.)
posted by Susan PG at 11:48 PM on March 1, 2012


"Kevin" needs to have his nards stomped on until he chokes on his own sick.

Wow. This is unacceptable.
posted by FrereKhan at 12:15 AM on March 2, 2012 [4 favorites]


Besides after I married my wife I've never had a cell phone while in a relationship. Thank Fucking God.
posted by ZaneJ. at 2:04 AM on March 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


...and before text messaging there were vociemails. This reminds me of the train wreck that was "Psycho Ex-Girlfriend"
posted by njk at 5:00 AM on March 2, 2012


"Kevin" needs to have his nards stomped on until he chokes on his own sick.

FrereKhan: Wow. This is unacceptable.

Thank you! I thought this whole thread was going to go by with no mention of how messed up that was. Let's try and imagine a single action a woman could do that would merit Mefites suggesting she needs to have some part of her body stomped until she chokes on her own sick - I'm drawing a blank.
posted by stinkycheese at 9:37 AM on March 2, 2012 [4 favorites]


I don't think we need to go into gender swapped hypotheticals. Can't we just say it's not cool either way?
posted by ODiV at 9:47 AM on March 2, 2012


No, I think the fact that the comment went by without raising any eyebrows for as long as it did is 100% about gender. Nothing wrong with pointing that out.
posted by stinkycheese at 9:58 AM on March 2, 2012


Is this close enough? Or not violent enough? I can keep looking if you like.
posted by ODiV at 10:05 AM on March 2, 2012


Uh, what?
posted by stinkycheese at 10:09 AM on March 2, 2012


We're talking about hyperbolic violent suggestions on MetaFilter and how they're fine when aimed at men, but not tolerated against women, right? So I pointed out a fairly popular comment that had a woman as the focus of the fantasy violence. Or did you specifically need an example that involved stomping?
posted by ODiV at 10:15 AM on March 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


I don't need anything. I haven't asked anything of you. I think what I've said here, and what that was in relation to, speaks for itself.
posted by stinkycheese at 10:19 AM on March 2, 2012


Guns? WTF?

I live in the SF Bay area, a supposed liberal enclave, and I still worry that pretty much everyone has a gun. Ain't that America?

before text messaging there were vociemails

When you think about it, voicemail is far worse. With texting, at the least there is a moment when you hit "Send." You can always edit up to that point or just cancel.
posted by mrgrimm at 10:31 AM on March 2, 2012


For a lot of voicemail now you can hit # to start over or cancel the message.

Of course this knowledge is going to inevitably end with me frantically hitting # to no avail after a really stupid message, but it hasn't happened yet!
posted by ODiV at 10:38 AM on March 2, 2012


Interesting example of sexism going on real-time in this thread, as several have noted.

AFAIK, those advocating violent genital mutilation for "Kevin"* haven't even been flagged by anyone else... or else Metafilter's standards have changed recently.

Can anyone believe those comments would have survived, and been favorited, had the words been changed to "Karen" and "ovaries"?

*Yes, I know it was meant as a joke. Because genital violence towards men is funny, amirite?
posted by IAmBroom at 10:50 AM on March 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Who are those advocating violent genital mutilation for "Kevin"? Because I just see the one comment which I agree is definitely over the line and should have been excised. If I've missed some, I'd like to read them.

Also, how can you determine if something has been flagged or not?
posted by ODiV at 11:02 AM on March 2, 2012


I'm glad it wasn't excised - because its presence, favourites, and (until now) lack of criticism reveals an uncomfortable truth about this site and it's membership.
posted by stinkycheese at 11:06 AM on March 2, 2012


Aaaaaand that stomping comment actually has zero favourites (which is nice to see). Sorry about that.
posted by stinkycheese at 11:15 AM on March 2, 2012


Yeah, the comment seemed to be mostly ignored. Also, going back and reading it I would have taken your initial response as a weird joke and certainly not a condemnation.

Who is supposed to be calling out these things if not us who are bothered by them? I would have if I had read it earlier and I flagged it when FrereKhan brought it to my attention. We're members of this site, too, right? We can say, "Hey, not cool."

Bringing in the gender balancing act is the wrong way to go about it, I think. We're never going to have a sterile Petri dish of an environment to see how everyone reacts if all factors but gender are exactly the same, especially in this society. I believe it's more important to focus on getting rid of shitty comments and attitudes no matter who is the target instead of trying to measure the reaction of the community and mods and coming down on them for imbalances, perceived or otherwise.
posted by ODiV at 11:23 AM on March 2, 2012


Thank you! I thought this whole thread was going to go by with no mention of how messed up that was. Let's try and imagine a single action a woman could do that would merit Mefites suggesting she needs to have some part of her body stomped until she chokes on her own sick - I'm drawing a blank.

Yeah, there's some gender bias here, no question.

But so what? Do we have to be as whiny about every hyperbolic use of language as the pettiest of the agonistas? The uptight PC climate here works my nerves as much as anyone's but meeting them measure for measure is a poor response.

Some time ago there was a link that containing a light hearted aside about discriminating against someone for being Canadian. Somebody pointed it out in the thread acting like it was an occasion for outrage. WTF?

This is about as ridiculous as the flurry of flames attending every claim that a given demographic shares some quality. As if saying girls like horses is denying their individuality and quashing their precious potential. ["NO, they don't. Girls are INDIVIDUALS and some don't like horses. Blah blah blah."]

-----

tumid dahlia,

Yeah, I hear that.
posted by BigSky at 11:42 AM on March 2, 2012


The uptight PC climate here works my nerves as much as anyone's but meeting them measure for measure is a poor response.

Difference being that I'm not trying to censor anyone or get their comments removed. I just thought it was noteworthy that suggesting a woman get her ovaries or whatever stomped til she pukes would certainly be received as DEFCON 1 level woman-hating, whereas suggesting a man get his nads or whatever stomped til he pukes (for not texting back fast enough!) is apparently hunky dory here.

Perhaps if people considered that, there wouldn't be such an uptight PC climate, as you put it.
posted by stinkycheese at 12:02 PM on March 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oh God, voice mail.

All right, since I've already shared the worst example of me being a broken hearted stalker, I'm not going to take up a ton of space with my epic 'time I got stalked' tale, but suffice to say I had some voice mail messages that were so over-the-top nuts from this one lady that to this day, it takes a serious mental effort for me to check voice messages at all. I'm always afraid they'll be a new one, even fifteen years later.

I wish she'd had text.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:02 PM on March 2, 2012 [2 favorites]


Can anyone believe those comments would have survived, and been favorited, had the words been changed to "Karen" and "ovaries"?

If you find the comment offensive, which is understandable, then it's fine to point that out. But do we really have to play the "If the situation was reversed, you would all act hypocritically, so shame on all of you theoretical hypocrites!" game? Speculating on the relative amount of outrage that would be generated by various shitty comments is not really a constructive direction to take the discussion.

suggesting a man get his nads or whatever stomped til he pukes (for not texting back fast enough!) is apparently hunky dory here.

Except all of the people condemning the comment and lack of people favoriting or otherwise defending it.
posted by burnmp3s at 12:09 PM on March 2, 2012 [2 favorites]


All the people? You mean me and... two others? As for people defending it, maybe you need to re-read the last dozen or so comments.

I'm sorry if the gender-reversal annoys people here but it's a simple mental exercise that's been used very effectively for decades now in talking about gender. Again, if the situation here were reversed, and the torture of a woman had been fantasized about in a thread, and someone were to object to that? Anyone defending the "this needs to happen" comment would be oil boiled and charbroiled, no doubt.

And yet here I am being called out for drawing attention to the disparity? Is this Bizarro Metafilter?
posted by stinkycheese at 12:19 PM on March 2, 2012


All the people? You mean me and... two others? As for people defending it, maybe you need to re-read the last dozen or so comments.

Starting at the initial "This is unacceptable" comment:

FrereKhan: condemns the comment
stinkycheese: condemns the comment
ODiV: says the comment is "not cool" and disputes the idea that there would be a big difference in reaction for a similar comment about a woman. Also later says that the comment "is definitely over the line and should have been excised"
IAmBroom: implies that the comment is not appropriate and agrees with the gender swap difference idea
BigSky: agrees with the gender swap idea and does not think any kinds of similar comments are offensive
burnmp3s: disputes the gender swap idea, calls the comment "shitty"

Several other people also posted unrelated comments. I don't see anyone defending the comment who would have condemned a similar comment about a woman, unless you consider rejecting the gender swap idea to be defending the comment.

Anyone defending the "this needs to happen" comment would be oil boiled and charbroiled, no doubt.

It happens pretty much the same way it happened here. Someone posts a comment that offends people. One or more people post something along the lines of "That's a bad comment and you should feel bad." Sometimes everyone else agrees, and sometimes the comment gets deleted. Other times someone else says "No, that's actually a great comment", and then the people who objected to the original comment say "No, you're wrong, it's a bad comment like we said it was." What are you expecting to happen here other than a few people saying that the comment sucks, especially considering that you personally don't even want it to be deleted?
posted by burnmp3s at 12:48 PM on March 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


I just thought it was noteworthy that suggesting a woman get her ovaries or whatever stomped til she pukes would certainly be received as DEFCON 1 level woman-hating, whereas suggesting a man get his nads or whatever stomped til he pukes (for not texting back fast enough!) is apparently hunky dory here.

Perhaps if people considered that, there wouldn't be such an uptight PC climate, as you put it.


The more likely effect is a paralyzing sensitivity to the possibility of somebody, somewhere being offended.
posted by BigSky at 12:53 PM on March 2, 2012


Can we not make comments on the blue without "expecting something to happen here"? I'll tell you what I did *not* expect - this reaction.

Anyways, my kids are home now and I have to get busy feeding them. I'll try and check back later.
posted by stinkycheese at 1:02 PM on March 2, 2012


Can we not make comments on the blue without "expecting something to happen here"?

Let me rephrase then. Sometimes offensive comments cause a huge derail where many people are offended and comments are deleted. This offensive comment caused a minor derail and a few people were offended or otherwise objected to the comment. I disagree with your claim that if the genders were reversed, there would have been a huge derail with deletions instead. You seem to think it's unfair that people aren't being unreasonable and overreacting in this particular case, when as far as I can tell that's the normal thing that happens most of the time when someone posts an offensive comment.

I'll tell you what I did *not* expect - this reaction.

Again, what exactly do you have a problem with? ODiV and I disagreed with your gender bias claim. Several other people agreed with you and disagreed with us. What reaction were you expecting? I'm not "calling you out for drawing attention to the disparity", I'm disagreeing with your claim that there is a disparity and saying that arguing over whether hypothetical comments would prove the disparity is not really a constructive avenue of discussion.
posted by burnmp3s at 1:36 PM on March 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


ya, fiamo and don't get pissed if it doesn't get censored.
posted by mrgrimm at 2:22 PM on March 2, 2012


Because genital violence towards men is funny, amirite?

Last time I checked with the gen-pop, yes. Remember that incident with S. Osborn on The View where she couldn't get enough of how funny it was that some woman had cut off her husband's dick? And then the "apology" that she couldn't stop laughing through? Any man who made light of female genital mutilation on television would be immediately fired post haste and I would sanction it. Likewise, that comment would have drawn so many attacks, so quickly that it would have been a shit storm. It is telling that it took 40+ comments before it was EVEN pointed out. And then, the fucking guy who pointed it out gets attacked for role-reversing.

As a man, I can't think of anything worse to happen to me than the defiling of my dude. In fact, the reason I came back to check on this thread was because that comment in particular stuck in my mind as being particularly reprehensible as well as an example of the political correctness hypocrisy on this site. See also, how all wealthy people are assholes who defrauded every cent of their wealth but god-forbid you allude to poor people being unmotivated or what-not. I agree that there are "oppressor-class" issues at stake, but let's not forget that sexual violence towards men IS real, and IS something that many men have suffered. My privilege, I suppose, is that I am probably not as offended as many females would be had the comment been switched, but I'm still pretty goddamn offended.
posted by gagglezoomer at 3:22 PM on March 2, 2012 [3 favorites]


Maybe it's because apparently everyone who saw the comment waited to see how "MetaFilter" reacted to it in order to point out our hypocrisy?
posted by ODiV at 3:34 PM on March 2, 2012


If you're responding to my comment, I apologize but I'm not sure what you mean.
posted by gagglezoomer at 3:48 PM on March 2, 2012


Sorry for my tone, I'm just a little frustrated that a lot of these, "well if the genders were reversed" conversations end up essentially boiling down to be about whether things are handled exactly equally or not instead of about actually dealing with the offensive content. When I suggest calling out, attacking, or nixing comments that are over the line no matter the gender, it's brushed aside for some pretty in depth hypotheticals and imagined scenarios.

Let's do something about comments suggesting violence towards men. Lets call them out! Let's not tolerate them! But it seems like people would rather wait and see if anyone else does it and then try to make some point about how it wasn't done fast enough or with enough vitriol or whatever and it's tiresome.
posted by ODiV at 4:04 PM on March 2, 2012 [2 favorites]


I generally agree. It was just that this Particular Comment seemed to illustrate in black and white the point I made. I agree that it can be fruitless to analyze and imagine b.s. hypothetical situations, but I've been on this site long enough to know how certain comments will be perceived and responded. I'm writing from my gut on this one; to me my point seems obvious and to speak for itself. Sorry you disagree.
posted by gagglezoomer at 4:23 PM on March 2, 2012 [2 favorites]


[Let us not play the "let's make a hypothetical horrible comment to prove a point" game, because it always ends in tears for someone. Probably me. ]
posted by restless_nomad at 4:30 PM on March 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Aaaaaand that stomping comment actually has zero favourites (which is nice to see). Sorry about that.
posted by stinkycheese at 2:15 PM on March 2


It had favorites, which have been removed by the people who posted them.
posted by IAmBroom at 7:22 PM on March 4, 2012


I wondered about that but I didn't want to suggest it with no evidence. But yeah, I was quite sure it had been favourited initially.
posted by stinkycheese at 7:43 PM on March 4, 2012


Oh, to be clear my last comment wasn't referring to conversations here on MeFi. I was having conversations elsewhere that were tiresome. So yeah, sorry for bringing that shit here.
posted by ODiV at 9:15 AM on March 5, 2012


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