Officer, why do you have your guns out?
March 6, 2012 5:02 PM Subscribe
Officer, why do you have your guns out? Michael Powell of the NYT writes a moving column about the events that unfolded in the hour before Kenneth Chamberlain Sr. was shot by police in White Plains. Multiple, so far unreleased, video and sound recordings have been played for his son, Kenneth Chamberlain Jr, who has decided to sue the city after reviewing them.
This post was deleted for the following reason: Definitely a fucked up situation, but it seems like all we have at this point is "a fucked up thing happened, some of the principals involved are going to court based on evidence not available for public viewing" and that seems like not a great basis for a post. -- cortex
I can't get back to the NYT article for the exact quote without logging in, but it was something along the lines of "often life's default is set to complicated." I'm not sure what more we can expect to get out of this, except an argument about cops. I hope I'm wrong.
On preview, what HuronBob said. Particularly the last part.
posted by Balonious Assault at 5:18 PM on March 6, 2012
On preview, what HuronBob said. Particularly the last part.
posted by Balonious Assault at 5:18 PM on March 6, 2012
There seems to have been a massive communication breakdown if a situation involving a person's medical alert system going off escalated into that same person being shot down. The point of the medical alert system, of course, is to save a person's life. It smacks of addressing somebody heart attack by drowning them.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:22 PM on March 6, 2012
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:22 PM on March 6, 2012
If an ailing, wheezing, 68 year old man wearing a Life Alert pendant came at me with a knife, I'd calmly take it from him and ask him to chill the fuck out.
These cops SUCK at their job any way you look at it.
posted by weezy at 5:25 PM on March 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
These cops SUCK at their job any way you look at it.
posted by weezy at 5:25 PM on March 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
What Joey Michaels said. The knee-jerk apologists will say things are complicated, the police job is "tough" and "dangerous", that we don't know the facts, etc, etc.
But who cares? That's not how it works for everyone else, nor should it for the police. The dispute isn't whether they shot him, so they need to be on trial for murder, and can try to present a compelling defense to avoid conviction by demonstrating how it was self-defense or defense of others that required tasing and handguns to surprise a man having, apparently, a heart attack. Because it's sure hard to understand how arriving as part of a LifeAlert medical response team would suggest there was omnipresent danger such that the cops would even be on edge enough to have guns drawn.
The default state of the public and official response to police who shoot citizens needs to stop being "Prove they were malicious" and start being "You shot someone, and like everyone else you'll go to jail if you can't prove it was fully justifiable". And as weezy says on preview, a 68-year-old with heart problems shouldn't pose so immediate a danger you can't disarm/restrain him without using a handgun. If it does, you either need to go to jail after you shoot him, or avoid that risk to your career and life by leaving the handgun at the police station.
posted by hincandenza at 5:29 PM on March 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
But who cares? That's not how it works for everyone else, nor should it for the police. The dispute isn't whether they shot him, so they need to be on trial for murder, and can try to present a compelling defense to avoid conviction by demonstrating how it was self-defense or defense of others that required tasing and handguns to surprise a man having, apparently, a heart attack. Because it's sure hard to understand how arriving as part of a LifeAlert medical response team would suggest there was omnipresent danger such that the cops would even be on edge enough to have guns drawn.
The default state of the public and official response to police who shoot citizens needs to stop being "Prove they were malicious" and start being "You shot someone, and like everyone else you'll go to jail if you can't prove it was fully justifiable". And as weezy says on preview, a 68-year-old with heart problems shouldn't pose so immediate a danger you can't disarm/restrain him without using a handgun. If it does, you either need to go to jail after you shoot him, or avoid that risk to your career and life by leaving the handgun at the police station.
posted by hincandenza at 5:29 PM on March 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
I'm an EMT and I've been on the scene during numerous dangerous patient situations over the years. I have no idea what the facts truly are in this case and it does seem doubtful to me that Chamberlain really needed to be shot, but to say you'd just waltz in and calmly remove the weapon from the person and tell him to chill out is a very naive oversimplification of what is never an easy situation.
posted by blaneyphoto at 5:35 PM on March 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by blaneyphoto at 5:35 PM on March 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
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All I could say at this point is: I'm sorry someone died. I hope this wasn't a shooting that was provoked or could have been avoided.
posted by HuronBob at 5:11 PM on March 6, 2012