Join 3,424 readers in helping fund MetaFilter (Hide)


We Love You - Iran & Israel
March 23, 2012 8:05 AM   Subscribe

To the Iranian people. To all the fathers, mothers, children, brothers and sisters. For there to be a war between us, first we must be afraid of each other, we must hate. I'm not afraid of you, I don't hate you. I don t even know you. No Iranian ever did me no harm. I never even met an Iranian...Just one in Paris in a museum. Nice dude.

The Facebook page mentioned
posted by Blasdelb (76 comments total) 4 users marked this as a favorite

 
For there to be a war between us, first we must be afraid of each other, we must hate.

If that were true, we would be in this position in the first place.
posted by mhoye at 8:09 AM on March 23, 2012


And funny, there is no war right now...
posted by RollingGreens at 8:12 AM on March 23, 2012


Not yet at war?...but they are pointing their weapons at each other.

Wouldn't it be lovely if the internet turned out to be a major tool for international dialogue? Instead of sabre-rattling and threats, we could, Oh, I don't know, exchange recipes or something.

Yes, we could all log onto a World Wide chat room, where folks could, um, all join virtual hands and Have a Virtual Coke.

All together now: I'd like to teach the world to sing, in perfect harmony....
posted by mule98J at 8:30 AM on March 23, 2012


"No Iranian ever did me no harm."

Or as that radical Islamist Mohammad Ali famously said when he refused to be drafted during America's war on Vietnam "I got nothing against no Viet Cong. No Vietnamese ever called me a nigger.”

His protests fell on deaf ears too.
posted by three blind mice at 8:30 AM on March 23, 2012 [31 favorites]


wish we could make it international law that the only people allowed to vote for a war are the actual people who are going to fight and die in it.
posted by any major dude at 8:47 AM on March 23, 2012 [24 favorites]


So this one guy has never been negatively influenced by an individual from Iran. You know, except for the whole concept of oil production versus consumption, probable ties to terrorism (both their sand ours) and generally every concept regarding macroeconomics.

Forget the butterfly effect. It's like he thinks that nothing in the world has effects that he can't see or touch on his city block.

Nice concept and all. But now I understand why my grandfather hated hippies.
posted by Blue_Villain at 8:49 AM on March 23, 2012 [6 favorites]


meh, (both theirS and ours). But their sand does seem appropriate, despite the fact that it was unintentional.
posted by Blue_Villain at 8:50 AM on March 23, 2012


When we were vacationing in Istanbul last year, while we were in the crush of people filing through the Treasury rooms of the Topkapi palace/museum, an Iranian woman (just another tourist there) explained to my partner and me a little bit about the fascinating and mysterious symbols on Islamic talismanic tunics (covered with Q'uran verses, numbers, and symbols). She remained friendly even after we exchanged the typical pleasantries that included our respective nationalities.
posted by aught at 8:52 AM on March 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Metafilter: now I understand why my grandfather hated hippies
posted by Flashman at 9:01 AM on March 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


I love Iran too but I still feel the need to see other countries.
posted by Trurl at 9:03 AM on March 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


I'd imagine a war with Iran would have nothing to do with Iranians. They would just happen to be in the middle. At most they would be a convenient scapegoat.
posted by TwelveTwo at 9:12 AM on March 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


Hating Hippies. Imagine (that).

Hmm...Mohammed Ali was a Radical Islamist? I thought he was a Muslim convert, who rejected the war in Asia, and was willing to stand up for his beliefs, even though he was stripped of his Heavyweight title and sent to jail. He could have gone to Canada, I guess.

Pretty radical idea, putting your ass on the line for your beliefs.

Anyhow, I once knew an Iranian guy--he said he was from Tehran. He didn't try to kill me. Maybe there are more like him out there somewhere.

Please let me digress at bit for the sake of gratuitous context: I remember the Clay-Liston fight, in May of 1965. I was sitting on top a truck at a water point along the muddy bank a nameless stream near Bien Hoa airbase, filling 5-gallon water cans to take back to my unit. The Armed Forces Radio station was broadcasting the fight, which we listened to on a tiny transistor radio that one of the guys had. I hopped down to move some water cans, and by the time I got back on the truck the fight was over. I was a little pissed at Clay for knocking Liston out so quickly, but that's about all I ever had against him.
posted by mule98J at 9:14 AM on March 23, 2012 [16 favorites]


Nice video; thanks for posting it. I hope it catches on.

> Nice concept and all. But now I understand why my grandfather hated hippies.

Yeah, fuck this dumb hippie shit. Get Your War On!
posted by languagehat at 9:15 AM on March 23, 2012 [17 favorites]


Nice concept and all. But now I understand why my grandfather hated hippies.

Yeah, fuck this dumb hippie shit. Get Your War On!


Yeah hippies, don't you all understand? If it weren't for your peacenik ways we would never go to war. It isn't that we love war, we just love your music, catchy chants, and fashion experimentation. We love all your hippie shit way more than we hate killing.

But don't go on telling the other arch-conservatives that I said this, they'll blush and dig their toes, all so easily embarrassed. Now sure, the bankers don't enjoy it, the big executives and all their minions don't enjoy it. None of those chicken shit lily-liver pacifists enjoy the straight hippie shit. But the real blood thirsty types do, the real down to bone and earth folks do. For them its music to the ears, beauty to the eyes, downright arousing! All those soft voices, slogans, signage. We got to veil all you hippies just so we can get work done. Got to put you in a little quarantine box, keep you decent, can't let you interrupt us, we are too busy trying to allure you. Starting wars, killing. All for you!

So, we'll keep it up so long as you do too. Good? Ok! You tell us what not to do, we'll do it. Let's bomb Iran! Start a draft! Get you guys singing again. Get some tunes playing again. Love that stuff. Love it!
posted by TwelveTwo at 9:34 AM on March 23, 2012 [5 favorites]


I'm usually a bit more cynical, but I do believe the only way forward in the Middle East is for average people to refuse all efforts to make them hate each other. I know it is simplistic, but the more organized efforts to encourage dialogue (and there are many), the better.
posted by chapps at 9:37 AM on March 23, 2012 [6 favorites]


All together now: I'd like to teach the world to sing, in perfect harmony....

Coke Blue? Uh oh--you're reigniting the Cola Wars. Only Billy Joel can save us now...
posted by yoink at 10:00 AM on March 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


Only Billy Joel can save us now...

Tis a dark day indeed...
posted by doctor_negative at 10:09 AM on March 23, 2012 [5 favorites]


Wasn't Muhammad Ali an adherent of the Nation of Islam, basically a UFO cult dressed in appropriated Islamic symbols?
posted by acb at 10:10 AM on March 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


I met two Iranian men. They ordered some "nice old port wine" at the dive bar I worked at. I offered to mix them some red wine and coca cola. They did not tip.

I met another Iranian man years later. He had gorgeous eyelashes and was a pretty good UI designer. We had a lot of fun together.

I think that just like Americans, Iranians are in general pretty good people who happen to have crappy rulers.

Maybe if the people could draft members of their ruling class to go shoot at each other instead of the other way around the world would be a kinder place.
posted by Ayn Rand and God at 10:12 AM on March 23, 2012 [6 favorites]



Maybe if the people could draft members of their ruling class to go shoot at each other instead of the other way around the world would be a kinder place.


Why have them make war, when they could make love? Arranged marriages for all ruling elites! Wait, I think this was the major scheme throughout the feudal era. Does anyone know if it worked? Did it stop war?
posted by TwelveTwo at 10:23 AM on March 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


Blue_Villain:

Are you saying that it's right for Israel to start a war with Iran because of macroeconomics?!

Near as I can tell, at least as much of the terrorism between Iran and Israel has been directed at Iran by Israel...? So why isn't it unreasonable for an Israeli to say that he doesn't back this sort of thing at all?

> But now I understand why my grandfather hated hippies.

Because they prevented him from participating in more lop-sided genocidal wars? Because your grandfather loved killing and wars, and the hippies hate that?

Because one man saying to a nation, "We don't want to start a war with you," is adequate motivation for hating him?

I'm not getting a nice picture of your grandfather - could you clarify?
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 10:24 AM on March 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


His protests fell on deaf ears too.

Except for the ones attached to the guys who sent him to jail. They definitely heard him.


But now I understand why my grandfather hated hippies.

Because he was a warmonger?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 10:26 AM on March 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


Kirth Gerson: "Because he was a warmonger?"

No, just a jerk.
posted by klanawa at 10:33 AM on March 23, 2012


I met an Iranian in Cincinnati back in 1975. He sold me some pot.
posted by tommyD at 10:58 AM on March 23, 2012


So ..... why is everyone else is allowed to have the bomb but Iran isn't?

Oh right, they're Muslim and Irsrael doesn't like them. Makes sense.
posted by Liquidwolf at 11:01 AM on March 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Are you saying that it's right for Israel to start a war with Iran because of macroeconomics?!

Heh, no. The irony is that I'm totally against the US being involved in the Middle East in a military fashion. But just because no Iranian has ever hurt this guy doesn't necessarily make it a good argument. I'm still not certain if I was against the concept of the video or just the way it was portrayed in the OP.

And actually, my grandfather was closer to a fishmonger than a warmonger. He had a little boat and caught fish to feed his family and sold the rest to earn enough for the basics. He hated anybody that didn't want to work for what they wanted. He never killed anybody, but he did have to recover several bodies when he was younger, and swore that he'd never do that again. He hated war, but he figured that if you wanted peace then you ought to do something to earn it. For him, talking and petitioning one day out of the year did not mean working. If you wanted peace then he thought you should go get a job where you can make those decisions, whether they be negotiations or whatever. He had 13 kids; 4 ended up in government/law enforcement, 2 were attorneys and 5 were teachers, but every singe one of them got a college degree.

Also, he loved boxing, but hated Cassius Clay because he talked too much. (Not to derail the existing derail, but it seemed appropriate.)
posted by Blue_Villain at 11:12 AM on March 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


He hated anybody that didn't want to work for what they wanted


No disrespect to your grandfather, but this kind of simplistic attitude toward "hippies" just meant he didn't understand the times or philosophy at all. He just boiled down to weirdo longhairs don't like to work, ignoring all the work that some were doing for civil rights, social issues, gender issues, etc etc. AND he was a cop? Whoa surprise !
posted by Liquidwolf at 11:18 AM on March 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


But now I understand why my grandfather hated hippies.
Because he was a warmonger?
No, just a jerk.


This is some serious you're-either-with-us-or-against-us shit that seems to have really peaked with this OWS stuff being around. This mindset is starting to dwarf even the most hawkish Bush-era War on Terror divisiveness. It is just as tiring as it was the first time around.
posted by Threeway Handshake at 11:29 AM on March 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


I posted this musing before, but it struck me that OWS is organized much as our war on terror is and was. Even to the point of literally occupying without purpose. It is clear their position is that to fight Wall Street and Corruption one must go to war, so to speak, but the war they are modelling their movement on wasn't even!

This led me to wonder aloud, whether or not the anti-Vietnam protest was in turn, modeled after Vietnam, or perhaps the Korean war. Here, the shout at one's parents: "I learned it from you!" is the implicit joke in all of this musing.
posted by TwelveTwo at 12:01 PM on March 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Except for the ones attached to the guys who sent him to jail. They definitely heard him.

Never went to jail. Ali was prosecuted and convicted, stripped of his titles and his boxing license - a big deal for a boxer in the prime of his career - but he never served time in prison. His conviction was appealed and ultimately overturned by the U.S. Supreme Court. CLAY, aka ALI v. UNITED STATES, 403 U.S. 698

"Since the Appeal Board gave no reason for the denial of a conscientious objector exemption to petitioner, and it is impossible to determine on which of the three grounds offered in the Justice Department's letter that board relied, petitioner's conviction must be reversed. Sicurella v. United States, 348 U.S. 385."

I remember the Clay-Liston fight, in May of 1965. I was sitting on top a truck at a water point along the muddy bank a nameless stream near Bien Hoa airbase, filling 5-gallon water cans to take back to my unit.

Thank you mule98J. If you don't mind the correction, you were not filling 5-gallon water cans, you were suffering an injustice that resulted in people like me not being sent abroad to kill people who never called me names. In 1965 I was still learning how to poop on the potty. You were in the Nam and it's people ilke you who kept people like me from having to suffer the same shit you did. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I owe a debt to all of you Vietnam vets that can never be repaid, but if I see you or any of your buddies in a bar I will always buy you a drink.
posted by three blind mice at 12:05 PM on March 23, 2012 [2 favorites]



Maybe if the people could draft members of their ruling class to go shoot at each other instead of the other way around the world would be a kinder place.

Why have them make war, when they could make love? Arranged marriages for all ruling elites! Wait, I think this was the major scheme throughout the feudal era. Does anyone know if it worked? Did it stop war?
posted by TwelveTwo at 10:23 AM on March 23 [2 favorites +] [!]


As a descendant of many of these arranged marriages, I am here to tell you, sadly the answer is 'No!'.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 12:05 PM on March 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


I left the computer, then turned around realizing I should clarify my butter before providing it to you for use as ghee. I may not be saying that it was modeled on how it actually was fought, but instead it was certainly modeled on how it was perceived to have been fought. For all intents, the news depicted the Iraq War as the knocking over of statues, construction of a ridiculous Embassy, and vague "The Secret"-esque support our troops rhetoric. If you don't believe we won't fail then we will fail. For early OWS, we saw an obsession surrounding the statue of a certain Bull, the construction of a ridiculous Embassy, and vague sense that media coverage alone is the essence of the battle. This might all be a distortion of the media itself, the idea then converts: the journalists themselves do not have a conception of conflict outside of symbolic vandalism, construction of symbolic structures, and magical thinking. Thus, journalists think all conflicts are a clash over idols.
posted by TwelveTwo at 12:09 PM on March 23, 2012



As a descendant of many of these arranged marriages, I am here to tell you, sadly the answer is 'No!'.


What if we add viagra to the mix? Then at least half of the ruling class would be getting fucked, instead of all of us.
posted by TwelveTwo at 12:11 PM on March 23, 2012


He just boiled down to weirdo longhairs don't like to work

No, he never mentioned anything about weirdo longhairs. Just anybody who didn't want to work. I'm the one who added hippies and you're the one that assumed he meant it in a negative way about a certain type of person.

And yet somehow I get the feeling that you think it's okay for the both yourself and the person who created the video to generalize, but when people like my grandfather do it... it becomes something that's not okay.
posted by Blue_Villain at 12:22 PM on March 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


The only way anyone ever prevented a war from happening was by either being in the throne of power and willing it, or by making the war so unpopular as to be too politically risky for those in the throne of power.

This video is guilty of the same political reductionism evident in much activism, and yes, it's just a drop in the bucket. but at least it is a drop in the bucket.
posted by deathpanels at 12:24 PM on March 23, 2012


So ..... why is everyone else is allowed to have the bomb but Iran isn't?
Oh right, they're Muslim and Irsrael doesn't like them. Makes sense.


No, nuclear armed governments generally oppose proliferation in every other country for a variety of reasons. They only tolerate others that have them already because there's no other choice. Iran really isn't special except that it receives more attention partly due to the flamboyant anti-israel or anti-western speeches given at the UN from time to time and the fact that this has been an issue for such a long time. Compare to India & Pakistan which both faced US & Japanese sanctions after their surprise nuclear tests in the 90's, but never became national boogeymen
posted by Winnemac at 12:25 PM on March 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


While we're at it, let's mention South Africa, which despite all its problems and horrors, was the first nation on the planet to develop nuclear armaments and then dismantle them.

(Admittedly, it was just previous to the end of the apartheid regime, and they might have done it to insure there were no nukes for the new regime to use on parts of the old, but they also could have used them to insure their rule, and did not. The whole Angola thing going on about the same time didn't hurt, either, and the fact the US and the USSR both did the throat-clearing don't-do-that at them also was a motivation. But the Wikipedia article, though not perfect, goes into that.)
posted by mephron at 12:32 PM on March 23, 2012


This mindset is starting to dwarf even the most hawkish Bush-era War on Terror divisiveness. It is just as tiring as it was the first time around.

Which mindset are you referring to? The hating "hippies" one? You know, where Blue_Villain apparently puts words in his grandfather's mouth and then pretends it wasn't meant "in a negative way about a certain type of person." That mindset has been on the scene for decades, and has been prevalent in certain parts of society all that time.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 12:32 PM on March 23, 2012


where Blue_Villain apparently puts words in his grandfather's mouth and then pretends it wasn't meant "in a negative way about a certain type of person.

He also never said /stay off my lawn, but I often quote him as such. It's amusing how people take things, and then deny any effect that their own connotations play into it. I said "hippies", not dirty longhairs, not people who don't bathe, not anything but hippies. Other people here turned that into a negative. Not me, and definitely not my grandfather.
posted by Blue_Villain at 12:36 PM on March 23, 2012


I thought it was a noble effort to try and push the impending warmongering talk back toward the individual - to add a "human face / element". It was as bit too saccharine for me but its difficult to know what one can do to make a difference in this day and age.

He is at least putting himself out there a little and trying something.
posted by mary8nne at 12:44 PM on March 23, 2012


Other people here turned that into a negative. Not me, and definitely not my grandfather.

And yet, you tell us he hated them. Not in a negative way then?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 12:46 PM on March 23, 2012


Which mindset are you referring to? The hating "hippies" one?

No, the mindset where you call everybody that disagrees a "jerk." The mindset that, when somebody disagrees with even part of a movement, the other side makes huge assumptions about them. The mindset shown here in this pile-on of this dude's grandfather.

Also the mindset where rhetorical flourish hyperbole like "he hated hippies" is always taken literally.

While we're at it, let's mention South Africa, which despite all its problems and horrors, was the first nation on the planet to develop nuclear armaments and then dismantle them.

If, by "develop," you mean "bought them from Israel."
posted by Threeway Handshake at 12:49 PM on March 23, 2012


For the record, neither any of my long-haired friends back in the '60s nor I ever described ourselves as hippies. The hooligans who harassed us for our appearance called us that and the NCOs in Basic Training called me that, but I never called myself that. Since you're so conscious of other people putting their own connotations on things, maybe you could leave that particular dog-whistle in your pocket.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 12:53 PM on March 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Dammit, Blue_Villain, I honestly misread that your grandfather "hated nipples." Worse, this metaphor was actually making sense to me. You can't really judge all the nipples in this world based on this pair or that pair (or triplet, in the case of a guy I knew in the Army who had an extra down past his ribcage). And though you'll find the occasional nipple you just can't stand, most of them are pretty alright if you give them a chance.
posted by Nahum Tate at 12:54 PM on March 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


Also the mindset where rhetorical flourish hyperbole like "he hated hippies" is always taken literally.

I love it. I had a whole paragraph typed out and then yours popped up and I figured I couldn't have said it better myself.
posted by Blue_Villain at 12:55 PM on March 23, 2012


Dear Iranians,

Most citizens of the world have been and are being led by mad dogs who'd sooner destroy the world than give up their power. The huge majority of citizens of the world want to live in quiet with enough food and happiness. So understand that we understand, and are also doing what we can to get past all this.
posted by Twang at 12:55 PM on March 23, 2012


Blue_Villain: Thing is, if you say, "My grandfather hated ", you're going to rightfully piss off anyone in or anyone who has a friend or relative in . If you say, "Now I understand why my grandfather hated ," you're even implying some sort of agreement.

Threeway Handshake: "Also the mindset where rhetorical flourish hyperbole like "he hated hippies" is always taken literally."

All right - explain to us your interpretation of the statement, "Now I understand why my grandfather hated hippies"?

posted by lupus_yonderboy at 12:56 PM on March 23, 2012


All right - explain to us your interpretation of the statement, "Now I understand why my grandfather hated hippies"?

"I think he was trying to suggest something about the duality of man."
posted by Threeway Handshake at 12:59 PM on March 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


> I love it. I had a whole paragraph typed out and then yours popped up and I figured I couldn't have said it better myself.

Suppose someone said, "Now I understand why my grandfather hated black people." Would you find that acceptable? Why would it be more acceptable with "black people" replaced with "hippies"?

Suppose I wrote in response, "Now I understand why so many people hate cops." Would that be acceptable?

Note that by no stretch of imagination is the guy making the video a hippie - you're using the term as a generic term of insult.

Really, you owe us an apology - for your hate speech, and for your massive derail.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 1:00 PM on March 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


maybe you could leave that particular dog-whistle in your pocket

But it's not MY dogwhistle. It's yours. Why the hell should I be held accountable for the maddeningly large number of different ways to interpret something.

explain to us your interpretation of the statement

Here, I'll have it served to you straight from the horses mouth:
Definition of Hippie (mid 1990s to present)(with reference to war): people who hate war, protest war by way of rallies, speeches, etc.

Why my grandfather would have hated hippies if he ever used that term: Being someone who quite literally worked every day of his life after the age of 12, he thought that standing around "protesting" something was a waste of time. If he wanted to object to war he would have run for office, and then used his position there to end it. More importantly he would have felt that these people standing around protesting are only seeing one side of the story, without understanding all of the political drama behind the scenes.

How it applies to this video? This guy is presenting one aspect of war, and the treating it as it as if it actually makes a difference. I thought it was annoying in the same manner that people of his generation thought hippies were annoying.

Suppose someone said, "Now I understand why my grandfather hated black people."Heh, I said one thing and 30 people replied, that's not me derailing the topic, that's 30 people derailing it. But I can see how you can take one thing and stretch it to the end of the world and say something like "it doesn't work way the hell over here, so why should it work over there." Unfortunately, that's not rational.
posted by Blue_Villain at 1:06 PM on March 23, 2012


Really, you owe us an apology - for your hate speech, and for your massive derail.

What.
posted by Threeway Handshake at 1:15 PM on March 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


So let's get this straight. You have a completely different definition of hippie than everyone else, from the Urban Dictionary to Oxford - and we're supposed to somehow understand it?

And it's actually people who speak out against war - like the man in the video - that your grandfather hated, so it's OK? And you only find them annoying, so it's OK?

This is what you consider a "healthy, respectful discussion"?
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 1:16 PM on March 23, 2012


Flagged a few posts, and I'm out of here.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 1:21 PM on March 23, 2012


I think that people on both sides: OWS/Anti-War and hawkish right-wingers need to just stop with the fucking histrionics.

One would think that everybody has withered and turned into some sort of third degree burn victim, the lightest touch from an idea that you don't 100% think yourself causes immense pain.

We all understand. Some of you don't like wars at all, others want to attack Iran because maybe one day they might start thinking about making their own nukes, (to keep up with everybody that is saying that they need to get bombed).

Frankly, both sides are crazy and shouldn't be making discussions about who to fight and when. Never fighting a war is stupid (you'd sit and watch Hitler execute millions and take over Europe?) Always fighting wars over hypothetical possibilities of a country arming themselves (Iraq???) is stupid.

Maybe just leave the whole "when to fight" question to people that don't throw a tantrum when somebody says their grandfather "hated hippies." Because that was really the sorriest example of "hate speech" that I've ever seen.
posted by Threeway Handshake at 1:36 PM on March 23, 2012 [4 favorites]


> Being someone who quite literally worked every day of his life after the age of 12, he thought that standing around "protesting" something was a waste of time.

Your grandfather was an annoying old fool. Don't get me wrong, I've got annoying old fools in my own family too, but I don't go around citing their idiotic views as some kind of Common Man wisdom to be admired by the people of MetaFilter. And don't start parsing subtle connotations of "hippie" with me; I was there, and I know exactly what kind of person used that term in discussing antiwar protestors.
posted by languagehat at 1:52 PM on March 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


Some top-flight trolling going on here.
posted by DecemberBoy at 2:21 PM on March 23, 2012


More like white flight. ya'll racists!
posted by TwelveTwo at 2:37 PM on March 23, 2012


Never fighting a war is stupid (you'd sit and watch Hitler execute millions and take over Europe?)

Don't forget that WW1 was directly responsible for the conditions that led to WW2.

I am all for dismantling the our military industrial complex and our global empire. Bowing out of the present/future resource wars for oil, water, rare earth or food. Instead concentrating on avoiding those resource wars by putting all the energy we are currently wasting on military and spending it to develop alternatives.

No military is going to attack the US and if we stopped playing global empire, the terrorist threat would dwindle as well.
posted by psycho-alchemy at 2:39 PM on March 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


I'm no fan of pacifism. I am, however, no fan of our short sided military-financial-industrial complex making strategic decisions while thinking only of themselves. Expansion beats stagnation. Forests make forests. Deserts make deserts. A forest that does not grow is a forest that vanishes. There is no balance in nature but an infinite variety of spirals vying to be the spiral. Instead, it is short sided decisions that are dangerous. Short term skirmishes with long term costs over resources that we would be irrelevant with a few long term efforts suffering only short term costs. Dumb. Foolish. The real problem is not war, but impulsive war. What does it build? Not a future, only profit. Its own. The people must reign in this abomination before it reigns too long, before we are lost to the desert of war.
posted by TwelveTwo at 2:55 PM on March 23, 2012


Apparently flagging a post only works when you announce having done so.

Perhaps we could update the guidelines.
posted by Dark Messiah at 3:07 PM on March 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


No Iranian ever did me no harm. I never even met an Iranian.

I can't claim any close friends from Iran, but I have casually met maybe half a dozen or so people from Iran over my lifetime. In each case, they much preferred the term "Persian" or "Persia" to "Iranian" or "Iran".

Although this is apparently not universally true (1, 2, 3 ...).
posted by marsha56 at 3:17 PM on March 23, 2012


My dentist is from Iran. Best dentist I've ever used. His services have spread through my friends, and they all love him too. He's been back to Iran a couple times over the last 10 years to visit his family. He showed me some pix. Looks pretty nice there. He is Muslim, but has a Catholic gf who is bringing him up to speed on Latin music. He deep-fries a turkey in his backyard for Thanksgiving. He likes to rollerblade for hours on end. He is always infectuously cheerful. He really loves being a dentist.
posted by telstar at 3:34 PM on March 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


lupus_yonderboy: "Why would it be more acceptable with "black people" replaced with "hippies"?"

Uh, because people don't choose the color of their skin, but they sure as shit do choose to call themselves hippies. (or wear their hair long, or any number of other things)

It may be ignorant, just like stereotyping groups based on a vocal minority always is, but it's not offensive in the way that saying the same thing about black people would be.

You're way the fuck off track here.
posted by wierdo at 4:04 PM on March 23, 2012


Israel's adamant stance against the prospect of Iranian acquisition of nuclear weapons capability is understandable, given Iran's patronage of Hezbollah.

A little internet lovefest won't resolve the situation.
posted by knoyers at 6:11 PM on March 23, 2012


Being someone who quite literally worked every day of his life after the age of 12, he thought that standing around "protesting" something was a waste of time. If he wanted to object to war he would have run for office, and then used his position there to end it. More importantly he would have felt that these people standing around protesting are only seeing one side of the story, without understanding all of the political drama behind the scenes.
As we all know, it's not possible to have a job and attend a protest at the same time.

And of course I have every confidence that your grandfather - if only he'd felt the whim - would have quickly risen to very high office and asserted himself as a major steering power in American geopolitics.

Much like your grandfather, the only reason I'm not Imperator Unquestioned of Greater North America is because I haven't felt like it.

It's too bad the dictators in Iran, Libya, and Syria didn't know how silly and pointless protest is! I'm sure they wouldn't have murdered and continue to murder their citizens by the thousands if they understood that simple fact.
posted by kavasa at 7:38 PM on March 23, 2012


Being someone who quite literally worked every day of his life after the age of 12, he thought that standing around "protesting" something was a waste of time. If he wanted to object to war he would have run for office, and then used his position there to end it.

Unless this story ends with your Grandfather in office effecting the change he believes in then he is creating a fantasy as an outlet for his impotent rage.
posted by Tuatara at 7:38 PM on March 23, 2012


Apropos of nothing - not sure why I thought of this, really - but wouldn't it be weird if people sneered at wishes for peace? I'm not sure why that would happen, I'm just sort of daydreaming aloud. Like what would have to happen to someone to hear someone say "hey, it'd be great if we didn't kill each other," and their upper lip curled back in the unmistakable signature of contempt and mockery?

Anyway sorry, I know that doesn't make any sense.
posted by kavasa at 7:44 PM on March 23, 2012


The Iranians love their children too. Such a shame the Government doesn't know each child's name.
posted by Slackermagee at 8:09 PM on March 23, 2012


Unless this story ends with your Grandfather in office

No, it ends with him having children who took his message to heart and they all got jobs where they could enact the changes they believed in. (Did you not read the post?)

Not exactly a Hollywood blockbuster, but then again he was only a fisherman with a 6th grade education. He didn't go around chasing things he couldn't accomplish.

he is creating a fantasy as an outlet for his impotent rage

Dude, he had 13 kids. Impotency wasn't his problem. (Seriously, did you not read it?)
posted by Blue_Villain at 8:13 PM on March 23, 2012


Dude, he had 13 kids. Impotency wasn't his problem. (Seriously, did you not read it?)
posted by Blue_Villain at 10:13 PM on March 23 [+] [!]
Hm.

Wait.

Guys, don't we sometimes call this "the blue"?

Bleh. Now I feel dumb. Time to flag etc.
posted by kavasa at 8:38 PM on March 23, 2012


"I am not only a pacifist but a militant pacifist. I am willing to fight for peace. Nothing will end war unless the people themselves refuse to go to war." - Einstein
posted by Auguris at 8:53 PM on March 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


I am all for dismantling the our military industrial complex and our global empire. Bowing out of the present/future resource wars for oil, water, rare earth or food. Instead concentrating on avoiding those resource wars by putting all the energy we are currently wasting on military and spending it to develop alternatives.

No military is going to attack the US and if we stopped playing global empire, the terrorist threat would dwindle as well.


Cool story bro.
posted by Threeway Handshake at 9:09 PM on March 23, 2012


Like Malcolm X, Muhammad Ali started in the NOI before finding Sunni Islam later in life. (The vast majority of NOI of the period followed Elijah Muhammad's son WD into Sunni Islam, forming the largest Muslim organization in the US to this day). At the time he made that statement he was still NOI. Not that it makes any difference to the truth of his words.
posted by BinGregory at 9:44 PM on March 23, 2012


[I have no idea how Blue_Villain's grandfather got wedged into this thread or why, but let's please let this derail go. ]
posted by taz at 11:06 PM on March 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


All of this reminds me of some Dar Williams lyrics, and since I have a chance to share them:

Well I wake up, and I ask myself what state I'm in,
And I think, "well I'm lucky, 'cuz I am like East Berlin,"
I had this wall, and all I knew of the free world
was that I could see their fireworks,
and I could hear their radio
And I knew that if we met, I would only start confessing
They would know that I was scared, they would know that I was guessing
But the wall came down, and there they stood before me
With their stumbling and their mumbling and their calling out
Just like me...

People are calling out to one another, their supposed, designated "enemies," to say that they love one another and don't want this thing that their leaders are planning. Shitting on that effort seems like the definition of "evil" to me.
posted by Navelgazer at 12:09 AM on March 24, 2012


Would've sounded better if Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan never happened.
posted by watercarrier at 3:40 PM on March 24, 2012


« Older Legendary Food Company Plans to Rebrand Itself...  |  Young the Giant's excellent co... Newer »


This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments