The Re-Election of Cool
May 2, 2012 1:22 PM Subscribe
President Obama is cool.
He was cool then and he is cool now. He sings cool songs. He has cool friends. He says cool things.
You'll recognize many of these moments in Obama Cool, a new attack ad from Karl Rove's American Crossroads PAC. Reminiscent of the McCain campaign's Celebrity ad from 2008, Obama Cool is intended to separate personal coolness from presidential competence, especially among young voters. Others see attempts not only to paint Obama as cool, but as a "cool black man", and that the ad is impossible to be taken at face value and "probably racist or at least is designed so it can be mistaken as such."
Meanwhile 538 argues that Obama is more popular than he should be, given persistent pessimism about the state of the economy. Likely due at least in part to his personal appeal and communication skills, rather than his performance in office.
He was cool then and he is cool now. He sings cool songs. He has cool friends. He says cool things.
You'll recognize many of these moments in Obama Cool, a new attack ad from Karl Rove's American Crossroads PAC. Reminiscent of the McCain campaign's Celebrity ad from 2008, Obama Cool is intended to separate personal coolness from presidential competence, especially among young voters. Others see attempts not only to paint Obama as cool, but as a "cool black man", and that the ad is impossible to be taken at face value and "probably racist or at least is designed so it can be mistaken as such."
Meanwhile 538 argues that Obama is more popular than he should be, given persistent pessimism about the state of the economy. Likely due at least in part to his personal appeal and communication skills, rather than his performance in office.
Drinking Guinness is cool? I always knew the day would come when I would no longer be considered a loser
posted by dng at 1:26 PM on May 2, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by dng at 1:26 PM on May 2, 2012 [4 favorites]
"That, in case you need reminding, was Newt Gingrich’s argument: faced with a gabber of Obama’s stature, the G.O.P. needed to nominate somebody who could compete with him in the televised debates, and Romney wasn’t up to to task."
It's not as though Gingrich would have been able to take Obama in a debate either. He would just totally believe at the deepest core of his being that he had mopped the floor with the President, and would indignantly insist on it if anyone suggested otherwise.
Then he would blast off to defeat the Moon Nazis alongside Callista and his pet penguin, Pericles.
posted by Naberius at 1:29 PM on May 2, 2012 [5 favorites]
It's not as though Gingrich would have been able to take Obama in a debate either. He would just totally believe at the deepest core of his being that he had mopped the floor with the President, and would indignantly insist on it if anyone suggested otherwise.
Then he would blast off to defeat the Moon Nazis alongside Callista and his pet penguin, Pericles.
posted by Naberius at 1:29 PM on May 2, 2012 [5 favorites]
I'm too cool to vote.
posted by telstar at 1:29 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by telstar at 1:29 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
I think outright calling Obama cool is a misstep (and Rove has made a few of them lately), primarily because... well Americans love them some personality (Reagan beats Carter, Bush II Beats Gore and Kerry, Clinton beat Dole). And issues aside for the moment, Obama is head and shoulders much much more personable and... yes.. cool then Rom-E will ever hope to aspire to.
I, don't like that state of affairs, and think it is a damn silly way to elect officials... but as in high school, elections (especially presidential) are popularity contests.
You know, absolutely, Obama is on the wrong side (as I see it) on several issues. But, he is also on the right side of several issues, and I for the life of me can't figure of WHAT side of the issues Romney is actually on, other than all of them at once. So... the popularity works in our (or at least my) favor for once. (and at least some of that performance in office on economic issues is the Republicans fault as well)
posted by edgeways at 1:31 PM on May 2, 2012 [6 favorites]
I, don't like that state of affairs, and think it is a damn silly way to elect officials... but as in high school, elections (especially presidential) are popularity contests.
You know, absolutely, Obama is on the wrong side (as I see it) on several issues. But, he is also on the right side of several issues, and I for the life of me can't figure of WHAT side of the issues Romney is actually on, other than all of them at once. So... the popularity works in our (or at least my) favor for once. (and at least some of that performance in office on economic issues is the Republicans fault as well)
posted by edgeways at 1:31 PM on May 2, 2012 [6 favorites]
this fpp brought to you by the committee to re-elect barack obama
posted by entropicamericana at 1:32 PM on May 2, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 1:32 PM on May 2, 2012 [8 favorites]
this fpp brought to you by the committee to re-elect barack obama
Well, I guess you can say that CREEBO didn't fire the first shot (in this campaign).
posted by Slackermagee at 1:35 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
Well, I guess you can say that CREEBO didn't fire the first shot (in this campaign).
posted by Slackermagee at 1:35 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah, yeah, Mitt Romney is not cool and never will be. Just like Al Gore. Remember him? How all the press cops loved him and said he was a great guy to have a beer with?
I realize the election is coming up but do we really need this crap here. In general, I am tired of politics being treated as entertainment. Whether or not George Clooney is "cool" relevant to movie goers I guess, because it's entertainment.
But politics isn't about entertaining people, and who's cool and who isn't isn't really relevant to how people should vote.
The only reason we know where Obama actually stands on these issues now is because he's had a chance to actually make decisions on these issues.
posted by delmoi at 1:35 PM on May 2, 2012 [6 favorites]
I realize the election is coming up but do we really need this crap here. In general, I am tired of politics being treated as entertainment. Whether or not George Clooney is "cool" relevant to movie goers I guess, because it's entertainment.
But politics isn't about entertaining people, and who's cool and who isn't isn't really relevant to how people should vote.
You know, absolutely, Obama is on the wrong side (as I see it) on several issues. But, he is also on the right side of several issues, and I for the life of me can't figure of WHAT side of the issues Romney is actually on, other than all of them at once.Eh. That's pretty much how Obama was in '08. Just look at how many people thought Obama was on their side before he actually took office, and were shocked to discover he wasn't. That didn't happen because they weren't paying attention to the campaign, it's because he was really good at sending out orthogonal dog whistles to opposing groups. There were people who really thought he wanted to compromise on abortion, and there were people who thought he would fight to close gitmo and end detention without trial. Both were wrong. There were people who thought he would allow states to legalize medical marijuana, people who thought he would vote against telecom immunity after the primary, etc. They were all wrong too.
The only reason we know where Obama actually stands on these issues now is because he's had a chance to actually make decisions on these issues.
posted by delmoi at 1:35 PM on May 2, 2012 [6 favorites]
but as in high school, elections (especially presidential) are popularity contests
Richard Nixon was elected president twice. Having a cool, genial personality is important, but it's not all there is.
posted by BobbyVan at 1:37 PM on May 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
Richard Nixon was elected president twice. Having a cool, genial personality is important, but it's not all there is.
posted by BobbyVan at 1:37 PM on May 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
I heard something interesting from a lecture the other day that since 2008, no leader of any democratic nation has been re-elected...
(sorry, no link to back it up but please correct me if incorrect)
posted by sharkitect at 1:38 PM on May 2, 2012
(sorry, no link to back it up but please correct me if incorrect)
posted by sharkitect at 1:38 PM on May 2, 2012
In general, I am tired of politics being treated as entertainment.
Eh, there's nothing else on the tube.
posted by Slackermagee at 1:38 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
Eh, there's nothing else on the tube.
posted by Slackermagee at 1:38 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
They don't need any of that nonsense. It turns out that
Obama lied!!!
Obama lied!!!
Drudge Report went further, trumpeting Byers’s story with the headline: “OBAMA ADMITS FABRICATING GIRLFRIEND IN MEMOIR.”posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 1:39 PM on May 2, 2012
In general, I am tired of politics being treated as entertainment.
When I treat it as deciding the lives of millions it makes me want to hide under the bed forever, though.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:39 PM on May 2, 2012 [7 favorites]
When I treat it as deciding the lives of millions it makes me want to hide under the bed forever, though.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:39 PM on May 2, 2012 [7 favorites]
I heard something interesting from a lecture the other day that since 2008, no leader of any democratic nation has been re-elected...
Stephen Harper became Canada's Prime Minister in 2006. He continued to hold the position after elections in 2008 and 2011 (forming a majority govt following the most recent election).
posted by BobbyVan at 1:42 PM on May 2, 2012 [3 favorites]
Stephen Harper became Canada's Prime Minister in 2006. He continued to hold the position after elections in 2008 and 2011 (forming a majority govt following the most recent election).
posted by BobbyVan at 1:42 PM on May 2, 2012 [3 favorites]
Richard Nixon was elected president twice. Having a cool, genial personality is important, but it's not all there is.
Well, he did play the sax on the Arsenio Hall show that one time.
posted by griphus at 1:42 PM on May 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
Well, he did play the sax on the Arsenio Hall show that one time.
posted by griphus at 1:42 PM on May 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
Richard Nixon was elected president twice. Having a cool, genial personality is important, but it's not all there is.
So was Reagan, and these days yeah that's pretty much 90% of it.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:42 PM on May 2, 2012
So was Reagan, and these days yeah that's pretty much 90% of it.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:42 PM on May 2, 2012
Why hasn't there been a conservative meme of Obama in black hipster glasses saying cliche hipster things?
posted by naju at 1:43 PM on May 2, 2012
posted by naju at 1:43 PM on May 2, 2012
Richard Nixon was elected president twice. Having a cool, genial personality is important, but it's not all there is.
See 1960.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:44 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
See 1960.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:44 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
Richard Nixon was elected president twice.
Certainly... 40 years ago, and after losing to a much more charismatic candidate because he underestimated the power of television .
40 years is enough time for patterns to shift, especially given the pattern of media consumption (and the outright new media types). And I think they have.
posted by edgeways at 1:45 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
Certainly... 40 years ago, and after losing to a much more charismatic candidate because he underestimated the power of television .
40 years is enough time for patterns to shift, especially given the pattern of media consumption (and the outright new media types). And I think they have.
posted by edgeways at 1:45 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile 538 argues that Obama is more popular than he should be, given persistent pessimism about the state of the economy. Likely due at least in part to his personal appeal and communication skills, rather than his performance in office.
Maybe the flagrant obstructionism within the house is starting to wear thin with the electorate? Like they don't care who's in power just work together and fix it.
posted by Talez at 1:45 PM on May 2, 2012
Maybe the flagrant obstructionism within the house is starting to wear thin with the electorate? Like they don't care who's in power just work together and fix it.
posted by Talez at 1:45 PM on May 2, 2012
Richard Nixon was elected president twice. Having a cool, genial personality is important, but it's not all there is.
Things are really different now than they were in 1972.
posted by aught at 1:45 PM on May 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
Things are really different now than they were in 1972.
posted by aught at 1:45 PM on May 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
Why hasn't there been a conservative meme of Obama in black hipster glasses saying cliche hipster things?
Conservative base hasn't yet figured out how to save a JPG without printing out the webpage it's on, clipping out the picture and scanning it into a Word document.
posted by griphus at 1:46 PM on May 2, 2012 [77 favorites]
Conservative base hasn't yet figured out how to save a JPG without printing out the webpage it's on, clipping out the picture and scanning it into a Word document.
posted by griphus at 1:46 PM on May 2, 2012 [77 favorites]
He says cool yt things.The Taylor Swift thing? Really? Was Kanye a jackass? I guess you could say so, how is it "cool" to conform to the mainstream opinion on some random pop culture issue?
Richard Nixon was elected president twice. Having a cool, genial personality is important, but it's not all there is.No one said that's all it is. But his opponents weren't cool at the time either. When he ran against Kennedy he lost. In '68 he ran against Hubert Humphrey and George Wallace. Neither of whom were cool.
Carter beat Ford, who wasn't cool and who everyone hated for pardoning Nixon. Regan beat Carter. Bush I beat Dukakis, who wasn't cool. Then Clinton beat bush. Clearly, clinton was a cooler guy. Then Bush II beat Gore - Bush was Cool, Gore was stiff as a board. (at least before Bush fucked it all up)
Where is an example of a cool candidate getting beaten by an uncool one, since the advent of television?
Eh, there's nothing else on the tube.I don't think you're trying hard enough. You could, I dunno go watch a movie or something. Read a book. There's no law that says you can only watch CNN/MSNBC/Fox/Whatever.
posted by delmoi at 1:46 PM on May 2, 2012
Indonesia's Yudhoyono was re-elected in 2009.
Thanks Burhanistan. I think the lecturer probably meant Western democratic nations, since the overall theme was the relative decline of the West, but wasn't sure...
posted by sharkitect at 1:49 PM on May 2, 2012
Thanks Burhanistan. I think the lecturer probably meant Western democratic nations, since the overall theme was the relative decline of the West, but wasn't sure...
posted by sharkitect at 1:49 PM on May 2, 2012
Stephen Harper became Canada's Prime Minister in 2006. He continued to hold the position after elections in 2008 and 2011 (forming a majority govt following the most recent election).
Canada does not elect its Prime Minister.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:49 PM on May 2, 2012 [3 favorites]
Canada does not elect its Prime Minister.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:49 PM on May 2, 2012 [3 favorites]
There are plenty of examples of "cool" losing in primaries. Kerry over Edwards. Romney over anyone.
posted by drezdn at 1:51 PM on May 2, 2012
posted by drezdn at 1:51 PM on May 2, 2012
Obama is a cool guy. The problem with all the Republicans candidates is that they were all batshit insane crazy. Obama will get re-elected by virtue of being the sort of guy you could tolerate talking to for more than 5 mins at a party.
They should have gone for Huckabee.
posted by Damienmce at 1:52 PM on May 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
They should have gone for Huckabee.
posted by Damienmce at 1:52 PM on May 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
So was Reagan, and these days yeah that's pretty much 90% of it.
Things are really different now than they were in 1972.
Well, yeah, things are different now... but look at the GOP primaries at least. Lots of personalities, many of them very engaging and interesting, and the party nominee is the most vanilla, boring guy of the bunch. GOP primary voters flirted with exciting candidates, but went with the practical one.
posted by BobbyVan at 1:52 PM on May 2, 2012
Things are really different now than they were in 1972.
Well, yeah, things are different now... but look at the GOP primaries at least. Lots of personalities, many of them very engaging and interesting, and the party nominee is the most vanilla, boring guy of the bunch. GOP primary voters flirted with exciting candidates, but went with the practical one.
posted by BobbyVan at 1:52 PM on May 2, 2012
(Which isn't to say that the Prime Minister isn't an elected official. It's just that (s)he's not elected as Prime Minister, but rather as a run-of-the-mill MP for a local district. The only people who voted for Harper live in Calgary Southwest.)
posted by Sys Rq at 1:52 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Sys Rq at 1:52 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
The Taylor Swift thing? Really? Was Kanye a jackass? I guess you could say so, how is it "cool" to conform to the mainstream opinion on some random pop culture issue?
By the established standards for politicians, even knowing pop culture well enough to have a moderately-informed opinion counts as cool. He's not being compared to twentysomethings in major cities, he's being compared to middle-aged white dudes who seem likely to say things like "hippity-hop music" and "the Nintendoes".
posted by Copronymus at 1:53 PM on May 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
By the established standards for politicians, even knowing pop culture well enough to have a moderately-informed opinion counts as cool. He's not being compared to twentysomethings in major cities, he's being compared to middle-aged white dudes who seem likely to say things like "hippity-hop music" and "the Nintendoes".
posted by Copronymus at 1:53 PM on May 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
...since 2008... regardless of the qualifiers I think the big one is 3 1/2 years is not a terribly long time line for the statistic to hold significant meaning.
FWIW, (heh, here is my own qualifier) I think primaries are different animals than general elections. But it is a point for debate.
posted by edgeways at 1:53 PM on May 2, 2012
FWIW, (heh, here is my own qualifier) I think primaries are different animals than general elections. But it is a point for debate.
posted by edgeways at 1:53 PM on May 2, 2012
I think the lecturer probably meant Western democratic nations, since the overall theme was the relative decline of the West, but wasn't sure...
To be fair, there haven't been a lot of direct elections of heads of state since 2008 in major Western countries, but as Burhanistan mentioned, that's as much how they roll electorally as it is how the electorate feels.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:55 PM on May 2, 2012
To be fair, there haven't been a lot of direct elections of heads of state since 2008 in major Western countries, but as Burhanistan mentioned, that's as much how they roll electorally as it is how the electorate feels.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:55 PM on May 2, 2012
Obama's biggest hurdle? Cool people tend to vote far less than Uncool people...
posted by sharkitect at 1:55 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by sharkitect at 1:55 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
The Republican strategists are using "coolness" to imply trendiness, unseriousness, urbanity, slickness, and youthfulness. In other words, Ryan from The Office. It's smart enough to play that card when courting people who are already Republicans, for whom tradition is a potent card to play, but this coolness campaign won't go very far with moderates and independents.
Richard Nixon was elected president twice. Having a cool, genial personality is important, but it's not all there is.
Coolness isn't important, no, although geniality usually is. You're right that Nixon was an exception to the general rule, although I'd say that in some ways, people related to Nixon not so much through any perceived friendliness on his part, so much as they admired his seriousness, his intelligence, and his fierce, perpetual underdog personality. It's hard to remember nowadays, but Nixon was an efficient and powerful operator when he wanted to be.
Romney lacks the gravitas, scrappiness, or even the, yes, genius of Richard Nixon. Romney seems limp and insubstantial by comparison. To continue with comparisons to The Office, Romney is Andy: smiley, conciliatory, well-educated, but at a remove from usual human needs, and without any ideas of his own.
Reagan and Bush 43 were both extremely genial, but neither was really "cool." Their projected image was that of someone who shared their voters' concerns, values, and common sense.
Compare them with Bush 41, who was intelligent and serious enough. He wasn't exactly unlikeable, but he never really seemed genial. He never had the forceful media image of either Reagan or Clinton. Fairly or unfairly, he often seemed stentorian and out of touch, like a Republican John Kerry. It's telling that the popular Dana Carvey impersonation of Bush 41 is basically fiction from the ground up - much more animated and distinctive than the actual person it was parodying.
Anyway, this attack on coolness makes sense, to the extent that Republicans tend to value tradition and common sense solutions. It's an interesting way to try to defuse Obama's accomplishments. For example, look at the right-wing whine that Obama isn't allowed to brag about bagging Bin Laden, since Seal Team Six deserves all the credit. Of course, if a Republican Commander-in-Chief had authorized such a mission, you'd be hearing about it from the treetops, but since Obama's just a cool huckster, the very act of bragging about it is perverse and suspect.
If they had a candidate like Nixon, Reagan, or Eisenhower, this campaign could go somewhere. Unfortunately for them, however, Romney lacks a substantial personality and any sort of firm, coherent platform to contrast with Obama's.
posted by Sticherbeast at 1:55 PM on May 2, 2012 [5 favorites]
Richard Nixon was elected president twice. Having a cool, genial personality is important, but it's not all there is.
Coolness isn't important, no, although geniality usually is. You're right that Nixon was an exception to the general rule, although I'd say that in some ways, people related to Nixon not so much through any perceived friendliness on his part, so much as they admired his seriousness, his intelligence, and his fierce, perpetual underdog personality. It's hard to remember nowadays, but Nixon was an efficient and powerful operator when he wanted to be.
Romney lacks the gravitas, scrappiness, or even the, yes, genius of Richard Nixon. Romney seems limp and insubstantial by comparison. To continue with comparisons to The Office, Romney is Andy: smiley, conciliatory, well-educated, but at a remove from usual human needs, and without any ideas of his own.
Reagan and Bush 43 were both extremely genial, but neither was really "cool." Their projected image was that of someone who shared their voters' concerns, values, and common sense.
Compare them with Bush 41, who was intelligent and serious enough. He wasn't exactly unlikeable, but he never really seemed genial. He never had the forceful media image of either Reagan or Clinton. Fairly or unfairly, he often seemed stentorian and out of touch, like a Republican John Kerry. It's telling that the popular Dana Carvey impersonation of Bush 41 is basically fiction from the ground up - much more animated and distinctive than the actual person it was parodying.
Anyway, this attack on coolness makes sense, to the extent that Republicans tend to value tradition and common sense solutions. It's an interesting way to try to defuse Obama's accomplishments. For example, look at the right-wing whine that Obama isn't allowed to brag about bagging Bin Laden, since Seal Team Six deserves all the credit. Of course, if a Republican Commander-in-Chief had authorized such a mission, you'd be hearing about it from the treetops, but since Obama's just a cool huckster, the very act of bragging about it is perverse and suspect.
If they had a candidate like Nixon, Reagan, or Eisenhower, this campaign could go somewhere. Unfortunately for them, however, Romney lacks a substantial personality and any sort of firm, coherent platform to contrast with Obama's.
posted by Sticherbeast at 1:55 PM on May 2, 2012 [5 favorites]
Canada does not elect its Prime Minister.
I was intentionally careful with my language in my original comment. That said, Canadians are smart enough to know what they're voting for in federal elections.
posted by BobbyVan at 1:57 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
I was intentionally careful with my language in my original comment. That said, Canadians are smart enough to know what they're voting for in federal elections.
posted by BobbyVan at 1:57 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
he's being compared to middle-aged white dudes who seem likely to say things like "hippity-hop music" and "the Nintendoes"
Herman Cain would totally say both of those things.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:58 PM on May 2, 2012 [8 favorites]
Herman Cain would totally say both of those things.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:58 PM on May 2, 2012 [8 favorites]
...how is it "cool" to conform to the mainstream opinion on some random pop culture issue?
I'm not sure if this is a serious question. Having the mainstream opinion on pop culture issues is like the definition of superficial popularity. Unless you believe coolness is some deep metaphysical state of trueness to oneself.
Anyway the point of this post is not whether or not Obama is a cool dude. It's that coolness is a campaign issue, maybe it always was and that just on the periphery of the campaign, serious people are taking it very seriously. Rove's $100M PAC chose this as their ad, John Sides is contributing to a book on popularity, Obama is pretty clearly channelling coolness is his recent public appearances.
posted by 2bucksplus at 1:58 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure if this is a serious question. Having the mainstream opinion on pop culture issues is like the definition of superficial popularity. Unless you believe coolness is some deep metaphysical state of trueness to oneself.
Anyway the point of this post is not whether or not Obama is a cool dude. It's that coolness is a campaign issue, maybe it always was and that just on the periphery of the campaign, serious people are taking it very seriously. Rove's $100M PAC chose this as their ad, John Sides is contributing to a book on popularity, Obama is pretty clearly channelling coolness is his recent public appearances.
posted by 2bucksplus at 1:58 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
Richard Nixon was elected president twice.
Sock it to me?
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:58 PM on May 2, 2012 [4 favorites]
Sock it to me?
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:58 PM on May 2, 2012 [4 favorites]
It's not as though Gingrich would have been able to take Obama in a debate either.
Given Newt's propensity for spouting-off whatever insanity comes to mind at the moment, no matter the veracity, a debate between he and Obama would have made for great theater. I could easily see Obama being flummoxed by Newt's out-of-left-field declarations. I mean...How do you prepare to debate a guy who has no qualms about making shit up on the spot and delivering the shit utterly self-convinced it's the god's own truth?
Of course, there's also the possibility of Obama just flatly calling Newt a fucking liar on national TV.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:58 PM on May 2, 2012 [6 favorites]
Given Newt's propensity for spouting-off whatever insanity comes to mind at the moment, no matter the veracity, a debate between he and Obama would have made for great theater. I could easily see Obama being flummoxed by Newt's out-of-left-field declarations. I mean...How do you prepare to debate a guy who has no qualms about making shit up on the spot and delivering the shit utterly self-convinced it's the god's own truth?
Of course, there's also the possibility of Obama just flatly calling Newt a fucking liar on national TV.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:58 PM on May 2, 2012 [6 favorites]
Bush I beat Dukakis, who wasn't cool.
Neither was Bush I. Dukakis seemed like a wimp and Bush I had seemed, at the time, like a continuation of Reagan, who probably could have had a third time if term limits and his health could have permitted.
It was only later that conservative voters would realize that Bush I was actually a moderate, quite unlike Reagan in several key ways.
posted by Sticherbeast at 2:00 PM on May 2, 2012
Neither was Bush I. Dukakis seemed like a wimp and Bush I had seemed, at the time, like a continuation of Reagan, who probably could have had a third time if term limits and his health could have permitted.
It was only later that conservative voters would realize that Bush I was actually a moderate, quite unlike Reagan in several key ways.
posted by Sticherbeast at 2:00 PM on May 2, 2012
Whoa. You mean that populist leaders sometimes score higher approval ratings?
Wow. I did not know that. If only GOP leaders could harness the same populist trends.
posted by clvrmnky at 2:03 PM on May 2, 2012
Wow. I did not know that. If only GOP leaders could harness the same populist trends.
posted by clvrmnky at 2:03 PM on May 2, 2012
he's being compared to middle-aged white dudes who seem likely to say things like "hippity-hop music" and "the Nintendoes"
Herman Cain would totally say both of those things.
The first one maybe, but anyone as steepined in Pokemon and SimCity as Cain clearly knows what to call a game console.
posted by Copronymus at 2:05 PM on May 2, 2012 [3 favorites]
Herman Cain would totally say both of those things.
The first one maybe, but anyone as steepined in Pokemon and SimCity as Cain clearly knows what to call a game console.
posted by Copronymus at 2:05 PM on May 2, 2012 [3 favorites]
Richard Nixon was elected president twice. Having a cool, genial personality is important, but it's not all there is.
"Our Barbie doll president, with his Barbie doll wife and his box full of Barbie-doll children is also America's answer to the monstrous Mr. Hyde. He speaks for the Werewolf in us; the bully, the predatory shyster who turns into something unspeakable, full of claws and bleeding string-warts, on nights when the moon comes too close .....
"At the stroke of midnight in Washington, a drooling red-eyed beast with the legs of a man and a head of a giant hyena crawls out of its bedroom window in the South Wing of the White House and leaps 50 feet down to the lawn ..... pauses briefly to strangle the Chow watchdog, then races off into the darkness ..... towards the Watergate, snarling with lust, loping through the alleys behind Pennsylvania Avenue and trying desperately to remember which one of those 400 iron balconies is the one outside Martha Mitchell's apartment .....
"'Ominous' is not quite the right word for a situation in which one of the most consistently unpopular politicians in American history suddenly skyrockets to Folk Hero status while his closest advisors are being caught almost daily in nazi-style gigs that would have embarrassed Adolph Eichmann." -- Hunter S. Thompson, November 1972
I don't know. Nixon seems pretty cool to me. Not to mention the ultimate precursor of things to come.
posted by blucevalo at 2:06 PM on May 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
"Our Barbie doll president, with his Barbie doll wife and his box full of Barbie-doll children is also America's answer to the monstrous Mr. Hyde. He speaks for the Werewolf in us; the bully, the predatory shyster who turns into something unspeakable, full of claws and bleeding string-warts, on nights when the moon comes too close .....
"At the stroke of midnight in Washington, a drooling red-eyed beast with the legs of a man and a head of a giant hyena crawls out of its bedroom window in the South Wing of the White House and leaps 50 feet down to the lawn ..... pauses briefly to strangle the Chow watchdog, then races off into the darkness ..... towards the Watergate, snarling with lust, loping through the alleys behind Pennsylvania Avenue and trying desperately to remember which one of those 400 iron balconies is the one outside Martha Mitchell's apartment .....
"'Ominous' is not quite the right word for a situation in which one of the most consistently unpopular politicians in American history suddenly skyrockets to Folk Hero status while his closest advisors are being caught almost daily in nazi-style gigs that would have embarrassed Adolph Eichmann." -- Hunter S. Thompson, November 1972
I don't know. Nixon seems pretty cool to me. Not to mention the ultimate precursor of things to come.
posted by blucevalo at 2:06 PM on May 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
he Republican strategists are using "coolness" to imply trendiness, unseriousness, urbanity, slickness, and youthfulness
I think it's more that they're using "coolness" and "celebrity" to try and imply vacuousness, cult-y, and shallowness.
posted by windbox at 2:07 PM on May 2, 2012
I think it's more that they're using "coolness" and "celebrity" to try and imply vacuousness, cult-y, and shallowness.
posted by windbox at 2:07 PM on May 2, 2012
IF Obama wins re-election, in 30-50 years Conservative pundits will claim that Obama was really a conservative (just as they eventually claimed of Kennedy). They won't be that wrong.
posted by drezdn at 2:07 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by drezdn at 2:07 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
I don't know. Nixon seems pretty cool to me. Not to mention the ultimate precursor of things to come.
Nixon-as-werewolf seems like the referent in Sideshow Bob's famous remark about everyone having an "inner Republican."
posted by Sticherbeast at 2:13 PM on May 2, 2012
Nixon-as-werewolf seems like the referent in Sideshow Bob's famous remark about everyone having an "inner Republican."
posted by Sticherbeast at 2:13 PM on May 2, 2012
Bush I beat Dukakis, who wasn't cool.
On the coolness spectrum, Dukakis was much farther along than GHRHW Bush. For one thing, he actually had lips. That you could read.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 2:13 PM on May 2, 2012
On the coolness spectrum, Dukakis was much farther along than GHRHW Bush. For one thing, he actually had lips. That you could read.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 2:13 PM on May 2, 2012
Yello is threatening to sue American Crossroads over the "oh yeah" sample.
(Meanwhile, I couldn't help thinking it sounded like the Kool-Aid Guy).
posted by argonauta at 2:15 PM on May 2, 2012 [3 favorites]
(Meanwhile, I couldn't help thinking it sounded like the Kool-Aid Guy).
posted by argonauta at 2:15 PM on May 2, 2012 [3 favorites]
Yello is threatening to sue American Crossroads over the "oh yeah" sample.
What is up with political campaigns not clearing their music rights? Do these people not have lawyers?
posted by Sticherbeast at 2:23 PM on May 2, 2012
What is up with political campaigns not clearing their music rights? Do these people not have lawyers?
posted by Sticherbeast at 2:23 PM on May 2, 2012
Politics isn't cool; it's weird and creepy.
posted by BobbyVan at 2:31 PM on May 2, 2012 [11 favorites]
posted by BobbyVan at 2:31 PM on May 2, 2012 [11 favorites]
Republican strategists are using "coolness" to imply trendiness, unseriousness, urbanity, slickness, and youthfulness
I think it's more that they're using "coolness" and "celebrity" to try and imply vacuousness, cult-y, and shallowness.
I'm pretty sure they're using "coolness" to mean "black."
posted by zombieflanders at 2:32 PM on May 2, 2012 [12 favorites]
I think it's more that they're using "coolness" and "celebrity" to try and imply vacuousness, cult-y, and shallowness.
I'm pretty sure they're using "coolness" to mean "black."
posted by zombieflanders at 2:32 PM on May 2, 2012 [12 favorites]
i think obama is a pretty cool president. eh kills bin laden and doesn't afraid of anything.
posted by mullingitover at 2:38 PM on May 2, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by mullingitover at 2:38 PM on May 2, 2012 [9 favorites]
What's going on is straight out of the playbook mentioned in this AskMeFi answer. They (meaning Rove and his ilk) are trying to take something generally considered an electoral advantage and spin it into a liability. The R
posted by awenner at 2:41 PM on May 2, 2012
posted by awenner at 2:41 PM on May 2, 2012
How can Obama be cool if he doesn't have a fez or a bow-tie?
posted by jb at 2:42 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by jb at 2:42 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
There are plenty of examples of "cool" losing in primaries. Kerry over Edwards. Romney over anyone.The problem is primary voters never just vote for the person they like the most. A lot of them try to vote based what they think an imaginary median swing voter would like. The problem is, hardly any of them actually know any actual median swing voters, so their analysis is just based on moronic stereotypes about what "Middle America".
So of course, they fuck it up. And honestly, I don't really think Romney was the least cool repulican candidate. Let's go down the list:
Less cool then Santorum: No.
Less cool then Gingrich: No.
Less cool then Bachman: No.
Less cool then Hermain Cain: Not really.
Less cool then pawlenty: Hell no
The only candidates I can think of who might have been a little cooler would be Perry, who turned out to be an idiot, and Ron Paul, who wanted to legalize all drugs (and therefore, was popular on college campuses)
By the established standards for politicians, even knowing pop culture well enough to have a moderately-informed opinion counts as cool. He's not being compared to twentysomethings in major cities, he's being compared to middle-aged white dudes who seem likely to say things like "hippity-hop music" and "the Nintendoes".That's completely ridiculous. I mean for one thing, kids who grew up playing Nintendo are middle aged now. Jay-Z is 43. For any other thing, why the hell would that be the standard? Knowing who two people are who are all over the news makes you cool?
You're comparing him to a stereotype of a middle aged doufis from when you were a kid? Honestly I'm a little embarrassed for you, I think what's actually going on is that you're not cool anymore and you haven't been since you got those reebok pumps for your 13th birthday - so you have no real means of comparison.
Politics isn't cool; it's weird and creepy.Holy shit that was the funniest thing ever. I was expecting Shep Smith to do something weird and creepy, given anchor text. But no.
posted by delmoi at 2:43 PM on May 2, 2012
Of course, there's also the possibility of Obama just flatly calling Newt a fucking liar on national TV.
That'd be pretty cool.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:45 PM on May 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
That'd be pretty cool.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:45 PM on May 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
Of course, there's also the possibility of Obama just flatly calling Newt a fucking liar on national TV.
Don't be absurd; he gets Luther to do that for him.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:51 PM on May 2, 2012
Don't be absurd; he gets Luther to do that for him.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:51 PM on May 2, 2012
The Republicans are recycling attacks. The celebrity thing didn't work the first time, the birther thing Trump tried to resurrect didn't work the first time, the foreign policy attacks didn't work BEFORE bin Laden...
They are pretty much screwed. They need to win women, but won't do what it takes to do that because then they lose their base. They want to win on the economy, but they can't give up on tax cuts for rich people which makes them fundamentally unserious to everyone outside their base.
Obama is going to cruise to a second term. I do like the guy, and I always have, but we can really do better and I hope people start to realize we need a third alternative.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 2:52 PM on May 2, 2012 [3 favorites]
They are pretty much screwed. They need to win women, but won't do what it takes to do that because then they lose their base. They want to win on the economy, but they can't give up on tax cuts for rich people which makes them fundamentally unserious to everyone outside their base.
Obama is going to cruise to a second term. I do like the guy, and I always have, but we can really do better and I hope people start to realize we need a third alternative.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 2:52 PM on May 2, 2012 [3 favorites]
Cain is pretty cool, just too crazy on the side. The stuff he did with Colbert was great.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 2:53 PM on May 2, 2012
posted by furiousxgeorge at 2:53 PM on May 2, 2012
Of course, there's also the possibility of Obama just flatly calling Newt a fucking liar on national TV.Yeah, then Newt does the exact same thing back.
posted by delmoi at 2:57 PM on May 2, 2012
"Now, this is not a choice between Mitt Romney and Ronald Reagan," Gingrich continued. "This is a choice between Mitt Romney and the most radical, leftist president in American history."
posted by junco at 3:04 PM on May 2, 2012
posted by junco at 3:04 PM on May 2, 2012
EITHER VOTE FOR JESUS CUPCAKES UNICORN CHRIST ROMNEY OR HUSSEIN HITLER-STALIN.
posted by griphus at 3:05 PM on May 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by griphus at 3:05 PM on May 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
The Republicans are recycling attacks. The celebrity thing didn't work the first time, the birther thing Trump tried to resurrect didn't work the first time, the foreign policy attacks didn't work BEFORE bin Laden...
Rebirther of Cool !
posted by srboisvert at 3:22 PM on May 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
Rebirther of Cool !
posted by srboisvert at 3:22 PM on May 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
When I saw this ad, my first thought was a paraphrase of Emperor Caligula: "I wish all you Rovians had but one set of junk [that I might kick it]."
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:23 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:23 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah, then Newt does the exact same thing back.Er, I should expand on that. Newt would be lying when he called Obama a liar, and he'd be counting on the press corps to refuse to adjudicate between lies and the truth. They've, at least other then on Fox news, less willing to do that in the past few years then during the '04 election when they refused to call the swift boat vets liars.
What happens if a candidate straight up lies, and the other tells the truth. The need for "balance" means they can't just call one a liar and the other honest. That's been Gingrich playbook since '94. Maybe it's obsolete at this point. We'll have to see if Romney tries to use it.
posted by delmoi at 3:26 PM on May 2, 2012
Don't be absurd; he gets Luther to do that for him.
I admit I was hoping for a different Luther.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:35 PM on May 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
I admit I was hoping for a different Luther.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 3:35 PM on May 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
I personally met Newt last Friday.
I almost gasped. He was visibly exhausted and looked and acted older than he is. Courtly and polite to a fault though.
A little later..downstairs....he went onstage to give a short speech. It was as if he had gotten a shot from the fountain of youth or a switch was flipped. Articulate, polished, no TelePrompTer, he gave good speech. But as he left the stage you could see the energy lift .....
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 3:45 PM on May 2, 2012 [3 favorites]
I almost gasped. He was visibly exhausted and looked and acted older than he is. Courtly and polite to a fault though.
A little later..downstairs....he went onstage to give a short speech. It was as if he had gotten a shot from the fountain of youth or a switch was flipped. Articulate, polished, no TelePrompTer, he gave good speech. But as he left the stage you could see the energy lift .....
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 3:45 PM on May 2, 2012 [3 favorites]
Obama's likeability is what makes him so dangerous. He can deport people in the hundreds of thousands, pump up the military industrial complex, kill people with drone strikes, and generally be a great friend of the empire, and get away with it all because, yes, he does seem very likeable.
Particularly in the wake of that beady eyed little shit who couldn't quite fit into his own body, Obama seems like a regular guy.
Very dangerous.
posted by crazylegs at 4:04 PM on May 2, 2012
Particularly in the wake of that beady eyed little shit who couldn't quite fit into his own body, Obama seems like a regular guy.
Very dangerous.
posted by crazylegs at 4:04 PM on May 2, 2012
I don't agree with the ad (obviously) but I have to say that it was masterfully done. The "Oh Yeah" is a little too much (though it looks like that might have to be excised now, heh) but the rest of it effectively shows him being actually cool. A satire of it wouldn't have worked as well because the ad actually needs to build up Obama's charm and personability as much as possible in order to turn it into a noose around his neck. And I choose that term intentionally, as the ad is very dog-whistle racist as well, but with an incredible degree of plausible deniability. That's some judo, right there.
Not that the Dems haven't been doing the same thing to Romney. Romney's biggest selling point is his business accumen to the point where he's basically running as a sort of technocrat, and so the left makes it's attacks be about his work with Bain Capital and so on, trying to turn his biggeest strength into a deficit for public office. (And, of course, he's already done this to himself on his public service record as Governor, running away from genuine accomplishments because they upset his base.)
Romney's personality problem, to me, isn't that he's lacking in one, but rather that he's extraordinarily uncomfortable campaigning. He strikes me as a guy who's probably very likable in person, more centrist than he can let on (for whatever "centrist" means in modern American politics) and all-in-all the kind of conservative you'd like to debate over dinner, because he'd actually be engaged and curious and give good-faith arguments.
But on the campaign trail? He can't handle reporters. At all. His public persona is one of pissiness, clear and simple, masked over by a thin veneer of social awkwardness. I think he truly just hates the circus, and sees it as a necessary evil on the way to getting a job in which he may use his buried pragmatism. Compare with Obama, who also likes getting down with the problems but enjoys the circus as well. Compare further with Gingrich, who as St. Alia's story shows seems mostly enthralled by the circus and could take or leave the work, to be honest.
But anyway, apparently Chris Christie is hinting that he could run for Veep. If there's anyone in the current GOP who can come across as "cool," I'd say it's him. Plus certain Dems can't seem to help but attack him on his weight, which just comes across as bullying, while Christie looks better by smiling and publically shrugging off such bush-league bullshit. Aside from the lopsidedness of that ticket, I can't think of a better choice for Romney, politically.
posted by Navelgazer at 4:09 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
Not that the Dems haven't been doing the same thing to Romney. Romney's biggest selling point is his business accumen to the point where he's basically running as a sort of technocrat, and so the left makes it's attacks be about his work with Bain Capital and so on, trying to turn his biggeest strength into a deficit for public office. (And, of course, he's already done this to himself on his public service record as Governor, running away from genuine accomplishments because they upset his base.)
Romney's personality problem, to me, isn't that he's lacking in one, but rather that he's extraordinarily uncomfortable campaigning. He strikes me as a guy who's probably very likable in person, more centrist than he can let on (for whatever "centrist" means in modern American politics) and all-in-all the kind of conservative you'd like to debate over dinner, because he'd actually be engaged and curious and give good-faith arguments.
But on the campaign trail? He can't handle reporters. At all. His public persona is one of pissiness, clear and simple, masked over by a thin veneer of social awkwardness. I think he truly just hates the circus, and sees it as a necessary evil on the way to getting a job in which he may use his buried pragmatism. Compare with Obama, who also likes getting down with the problems but enjoys the circus as well. Compare further with Gingrich, who as St. Alia's story shows seems mostly enthralled by the circus and could take or leave the work, to be honest.
But anyway, apparently Chris Christie is hinting that he could run for Veep. If there's anyone in the current GOP who can come across as "cool," I'd say it's him. Plus certain Dems can't seem to help but attack him on his weight, which just comes across as bullying, while Christie looks better by smiling and publically shrugging off such bush-league bullshit. Aside from the lopsidedness of that ticket, I can't think of a better choice for Romney, politically.
posted by Navelgazer at 4:09 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
furiousxgeorge: They are pretty much screwed.
I don't know man. The economy is sucking and the Republicans managed to nominate the chamber of commerce guy, not one of the fruitcakes. I'd say this one's up for grabs.
posted by Trochanter at 4:14 PM on May 2, 2012
I don't know man. The economy is sucking and the Republicans managed to nominate the chamber of commerce guy, not one of the fruitcakes. I'd say this one's up for grabs.
posted by Trochanter at 4:14 PM on May 2, 2012
It's up for grabs now. All bets are off if the Eurozone collapses, Israel and Iran start a war, the recession comes back, or any combination of those.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:25 PM on May 2, 2012
posted by zombieflanders at 4:25 PM on May 2, 2012
Sure he can shoot hoops and sing a mean melody, but apparently he's also capable of talkin' deconstructionist French philosophy, for instance, in letters written to his college girlfriend while he was a student in NY:
I haven’t read “The Waste Land” for a year, and I never did bother to check all the footnotes. But I will hazard these statements—Eliot contains the same ecstatic vision which runs from Münzer to Yeats. However, he retains a grounding in the social reality/order of his time. Facing what he perceives as a choice between ecstatic chaos and lifeless mechanistic order, he accedes to maintaining a separation of asexual purity and brutal sexual reality. And he wears a stoical face before this. Read his essay on Tradition and the Individual Talent, as well as Four Quartets, when he’s less concerned with depicting moribund Europe, to catch a sense of what I speak. Remember how I said there’s a certain kind of conservatism which I respect more than bourgeois liberalism—Eliot is of this type. Of course, the dichotomy he maintains is reactionary, but it’s due to a deep fatalism, not ignorance. (Counter him with Yeats or Pound, who, arising from the same milieu, opted to support Hitler and Mussolini.) And this fatalism is born out of the relation between fertility and death, which I touched on in my last letter—life feeds on itself. A fatalism I share with the western tradition at times. You seem surprised at Eliot’s irreconcilable ambivalence; don’t you share this ambivalence yourself, Alex?
posted by eagle-bear at 4:29 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
I haven’t read “The Waste Land” for a year, and I never did bother to check all the footnotes. But I will hazard these statements—Eliot contains the same ecstatic vision which runs from Münzer to Yeats. However, he retains a grounding in the social reality/order of his time. Facing what he perceives as a choice between ecstatic chaos and lifeless mechanistic order, he accedes to maintaining a separation of asexual purity and brutal sexual reality. And he wears a stoical face before this. Read his essay on Tradition and the Individual Talent, as well as Four Quartets, when he’s less concerned with depicting moribund Europe, to catch a sense of what I speak. Remember how I said there’s a certain kind of conservatism which I respect more than bourgeois liberalism—Eliot is of this type. Of course, the dichotomy he maintains is reactionary, but it’s due to a deep fatalism, not ignorance. (Counter him with Yeats or Pound, who, arising from the same milieu, opted to support Hitler and Mussolini.) And this fatalism is born out of the relation between fertility and death, which I touched on in my last letter—life feeds on itself. A fatalism I share with the western tradition at times. You seem surprised at Eliot’s irreconcilable ambivalence; don’t you share this ambivalence yourself, Alex?
posted by eagle-bear at 4:29 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
He strikes me as a guy who's probably very likable in person, more centrist than he can let on (for whatever "centrist" means in modern American politics) and all-in-all the kind of conservative you'd like to debate over dinner, because he'd actually be engaged and curious and give good-faith arguments.
If Romney wins, it's near 100% certain that he has majorities in both chambers of Congress, which means a GOP that is currently run by the crazies. Combined with conservative Democrats, it wouldn't matter how pragmatic or centrist he seems at that point. Assuming a near run of the table, he'd only be a Manchin and Casey away from implementing the Blunt Amendment, Ryan budget, and fuck knows what else.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:34 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
If Romney wins, it's near 100% certain that he has majorities in both chambers of Congress, which means a GOP that is currently run by the crazies. Combined with conservative Democrats, it wouldn't matter how pragmatic or centrist he seems at that point. Assuming a near run of the table, he'd only be a Manchin and Casey away from implementing the Blunt Amendment, Ryan budget, and fuck knows what else.
posted by zombieflanders at 4:34 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
Richard Nixon was elected president twice.
His opponents were Humphrey and McGovern. Seriously, the candidate with the most Elvis in him wins.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 4:39 PM on May 2, 2012
His opponents were Humphrey and McGovern. Seriously, the candidate with the most Elvis in him wins.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 4:39 PM on May 2, 2012
"I haven’t read “The Waste Land” for a year, and I never did bother to check all the footnotes. But I will hazard these statements—Eliot contains the same ecstatic vision which runs from Münzer to Yeats. However, he retains a grounding in the social reality/order of his time. Facing what he perceives as a choice between ecstatic chaos and lifeless mechanistic order, he accedes to maintaining a separation of asexual purity and brutal sexual reality. And he wears a stoical face before this. Read his essay on Tradition and the Individual Talent, as well as Four Quartets, when he’s less concerned with depicting moribund Europe, to catch a sense of what I speak. Remember how I said there’s a certain kind of conservatism which I respect more than bourgeois liberalism—Eliot is of this type. Of course, the dichotomy he maintains is reactionary, but it’s due to a deep fatalism, not ignorance. (Counter him with Yeats or Pound, who, arising from the same milieu, opted to support Hitler and Mussolini.) And this fatalism is born out of the relation between fertility and death, which I touched on in my last letter—life feeds on itself. A fatalism I share with the western tradition at times. You seem surprised at Eliot’s irreconcilable ambivalence; don’t you share this ambivalence yourself, Alex?"
You're confused. I'm pretty sure that was Bush.
posted by crazylegs at 4:49 PM on May 2, 2012
You're confused. I'm pretty sure that was Bush.
posted by crazylegs at 4:49 PM on May 2, 2012
PS - He wrote that to his girlfriend? Sounds like a hot relationship.
posted by crazylegs at 4:50 PM on May 2, 2012
posted by crazylegs at 4:50 PM on May 2, 2012
zombieflanders: I agree with you completely and would never vote for Romney. I'm just dissecting where I think his "personality problem" comes from. I think he falsely imagines that he could rein in congress, rather than having to rubber-stamp increasingly irresponsible and flat-out evil legislation. He is wrong.
Also, if he thinks dealing with reporters is turning his hair more silver, wait until he has to deal with a batshitinsane house of representatives who all feel he owes them something.
Note: please do not actually wait for this. Volunteer and vote and everything else to make sure this never happens.
posted by Navelgazer at 4:58 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
Also, if he thinks dealing with reporters is turning his hair more silver, wait until he has to deal with a batshitinsane house of representatives who all feel he owes them something.
Note: please do not actually wait for this. Volunteer and vote and everything else to make sure this never happens.
posted by Navelgazer at 4:58 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
The way these attacks have come about. First, there was a focus group among independents which asked them what do you see as positive about Obama? The answers were: he's cool, he killed bin Laden. Then the strategists got together and decided they had to attack him on those fronts. Stupid strategists, in my opinion. By attacking him about bin Laden they remind people again and again something positive he did.
Anyone remember when Obama was attacked because he was popular? And you know who else is going to be popular? The Antichrist. (Seriously this made the mainstream press.)
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:11 PM on May 2, 2012
Anyone remember when Obama was attacked because he was popular? And you know who else is going to be popular? The Antichrist. (Seriously this made the mainstream press.)
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 5:11 PM on May 2, 2012
Obama is going to cruise to a second term.
Define "Cruise" and I'll bet you something you're wrong.
posted by cashman at 5:31 PM on May 2, 2012
Define "Cruise" and I'll bet you something you're wrong.
posted by cashman at 5:31 PM on May 2, 2012
*jumps on Oprah's couch*
posted by Sys Rq at 5:37 PM on May 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Sys Rq at 5:37 PM on May 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
Obama will Cruise Elroy to a second term.
posted by Sticherbeast at 5:45 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Sticherbeast at 5:45 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
Classic Rove. "Attack opponents on their strengths". If McCain was a POW, then POWs crack under the strain. If Kerry's a Vietname Vet, then anyone who was in Vietnam was a fraud. If Obama is cool, then cool is going to a liability.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:08 PM on May 2, 2012
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:08 PM on May 2, 2012
Define "Cruise" and I'll bet you something you're wrong.
"Cruise" means the counting will be over election night, be viewed as accurate and Romney will call to concede.
In the morning, I will leave my house with a smile on my face and proceed to gloat at every Republican in my path.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:12 PM on May 2, 2012
"Cruise" means the counting will be over election night, be viewed as accurate and Romney will call to concede.
In the morning, I will leave my house with a smile on my face and proceed to gloat at every Republican in my path.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:12 PM on May 2, 2012
If you want to make it interesting, we can pick a charity the loser will donate up to $20 to.
If we really want to make it interesting, we could make it a MeFi thing for the political junkies.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:15 PM on May 2, 2012
If we really want to make it interesting, we could make it a MeFi thing for the political junkies.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:15 PM on May 2, 2012
I see this ad and just hear a bitter old white dude ranting about how Obama thinks he's cool with his hippity hop and his singing and back in my day by god presidents had some gravitas...
So I think it's perfect for the Republican market.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 6:19 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
So I think it's perfect for the Republican market.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 6:19 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
Brandon, don't tempt me. :D
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:19 PM on May 2, 2012
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:19 PM on May 2, 2012
Obama *is* cool. He's not cool like the guys leading pep rallies in high school, or the quarterback. He's cool like the class president - the guy who says "hey what's up" when your hair is still dripping from a swirley. He's cool like the one popular kid in gradeschool who tells the fat kid (me), "hey, I like your shoes. when you grow out of them, can I have 'em?" He's cool like Master Mediator Captain Picard, not swayve and de-boner Riker.
posted by notsnot at 6:44 PM on May 2, 2012
posted by notsnot at 6:44 PM on May 2, 2012
Dude is about 5 points ahead in the poll aggregate, and the race is just starting. It's a sucky economy but the R nom has the charisma of of worn $10 note, a sickly smile and changes positions so often he makes an average politician look like the rock of Gibraltar. Hell Rom-E had to spend $100,000,000 to win a primary against a few philanderists, a Christian Talibanist, and a racist. None of which had the money or ground game to really contest him.
Yeah Romney may prevail, weirder thing happen, but I'd give Obama a good 70% chance of wrapping it up election night.
posted by edgeways at 6:46 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah Romney may prevail, weirder thing happen, but I'd give Obama a good 70% chance of wrapping it up election night.
posted by edgeways at 6:46 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
I predict that Obama will win with Bush v. Kerry numbers - not a landslide, but not a squeaker.
posted by Sticherbeast at 6:46 PM on May 2, 2012
posted by Sticherbeast at 6:46 PM on May 2, 2012
@Brandon: I'll tell you what. Ten thousand bucks? A ten thousand dollar bet?
posted by spanishbombs at 6:46 PM on May 2, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by spanishbombs at 6:46 PM on May 2, 2012 [4 favorites]
You guys are pretty confident Obama will win. I hope you're right. I really do. Because one of those things managed to wipe out decades of progress in less than 8 years. And if the voters have found that ship there's no telling how many of them were exposed. Do you understand?
god I'm so excited for prometheus
posted by cashman at 7:30 PM on May 2, 2012 [6 favorites]
god I'm so excited for prometheus
posted by cashman at 7:30 PM on May 2, 2012 [6 favorites]
Then he would blast off to defeat the Moon Nazis alongside Callista and his pet penguin, Pericles.
Never have I been so disappointed that a link didn't have the letters "jpg" at the end of the URL.
posted by straight at 7:39 PM on May 2, 2012 [4 favorites]
Never have I been so disappointed that a link didn't have the letters "jpg" at the end of the URL.
posted by straight at 7:39 PM on May 2, 2012 [4 favorites]
Brandon, I too, like St. of Bunnies, am totally in for a charity mefi politics pool bet if it would be kosher with Matt.
posted by dejah420 at 7:43 PM on May 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by dejah420 at 7:43 PM on May 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
I think the lecturer probably meant Western democratic nations, since the overall theme was the relative decline of the West, but wasn't sure...
Depends on what they meant by "Western" (and I guess "democratic"), but off the top of my head:
Heinz Fischer, re-elected 2010
Cristina Fernández, re-elected 2011
Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, re-elected 2011
...and I'm sure there are others.
posted by psoas at 8:15 PM on May 2, 2012
Depends on what they meant by "Western" (and I guess "democratic"), but off the top of my head:
Heinz Fischer, re-elected 2010
Cristina Fernández, re-elected 2011
Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, re-elected 2011
...and I'm sure there are others.
posted by psoas at 8:15 PM on May 2, 2012
"That, in case you need reminding, was Newt Gingrich’s argument: faced with a gabber of Obama’s stature, the G.O.P. needed to nominate somebody who could compete with him in the televised debates, and Romney wasn’t up to to task."
I've never got why people seem to accept that Gingrich is a master debater. I wish I could find an old link about winning any argument (change subject, act irrationally, insult your opponent, etc.) which seems to be Gingrich's playbook with the addition of sneering, misquoting history, and always, ALWAYS, use lots of adverbs and explosive adjectives. "Profoundly stupid." "Dangerously irrational." "Adverb Adjective."
That said, I am sad we won't see a Gingrich-Obama debate, though.
posted by sfkiddo at 8:30 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
I've never got why people seem to accept that Gingrich is a master debater. I wish I could find an old link about winning any argument (change subject, act irrationally, insult your opponent, etc.) which seems to be Gingrich's playbook with the addition of sneering, misquoting history, and always, ALWAYS, use lots of adverbs and explosive adjectives. "Profoundly stupid." "Dangerously irrational." "Adverb Adjective."
That said, I am sad we won't see a Gingrich-Obama debate, though.
posted by sfkiddo at 8:30 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
He can deport people in the hundreds of thousands, pump up the military industrial complex, kill people with drone strikes, and generally be a great friend of the empire, and get away with it all because, yes, he does seem very likeable.
Likable goes a long way. People forgive a lot when the hero is likable. He's definitely got the Raygun edge. It just don't matter that the US is now a Hollywood backlot, a veneer of cheap primer on top of rotten plywood; we have our American Idol, ladies and gentlemen.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:38 PM on May 2, 2012
Likable goes a long way. People forgive a lot when the hero is likable. He's definitely got the Raygun edge. It just don't matter that the US is now a Hollywood backlot, a veneer of cheap primer on top of rotten plywood; we have our American Idol, ladies and gentlemen.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:38 PM on May 2, 2012
Ron Paul, who wanted to legalize all drugs
Except for birth control. He's A-OK with banning those drugs.
posted by emjaybee at 9:20 PM on May 2, 2012 [4 favorites]
Except for birth control. He's A-OK with banning those drugs.
posted by emjaybee at 9:20 PM on May 2, 2012 [4 favorites]
He's cool like Master Mediator Captain Picard, not swayve and de-boner Riker.
I don't remember the de-boning episode, but I remember most characters swayving whenever the ship was hit.
posted by BurnChao at 11:09 PM on May 2, 2012
I don't remember the de-boning episode, but I remember most characters swayving whenever the ship was hit.
posted by BurnChao at 11:09 PM on May 2, 2012
delmoi: "In general, I am tired of politics being treated as entertainment."
I'll put in a word for Neil Postman's Amusing Ourselves to Death here. Postman's argument is, Television is a medium of entertainment. Therefore, it pushes all content presented on it to be entertaining. As long as TV is the dominant medium for political discourse, this will be a problem.
One could perhaps improve things by steering politics back to text, whether print or online. The problem is, how does one do that without running afoul of the First Amendment?
posted by aurelian at 11:24 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'll put in a word for Neil Postman's Amusing Ourselves to Death here. Postman's argument is, Television is a medium of entertainment. Therefore, it pushes all content presented on it to be entertaining. As long as TV is the dominant medium for political discourse, this will be a problem.
One could perhaps improve things by steering politics back to text, whether print or online. The problem is, how does one do that without running afoul of the First Amendment?
posted by aurelian at 11:24 PM on May 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
If one believes in markets, InTrade has Obama's chances for re-election at 59.8%. Iowa Electronic Markets puts it at 59.7%
Past performance no indicator of future results, etc.
posted by aurelian at 11:29 PM on May 2, 2012
Past performance no indicator of future results, etc.
posted by aurelian at 11:29 PM on May 2, 2012
On the re-election since 2008 thing --
Fredrik Reinfeldt, prime minister (statsminister) of Sweden, 2010.
posted by aurelian at 11:37 PM on May 2, 2012
Fredrik Reinfeldt, prime minister (statsminister) of Sweden, 2010.
posted by aurelian at 11:37 PM on May 2, 2012
He's not cool like the guys leading pep rallies in high school, or the quarterback. He's cool like the class president ...
Has the word really depreciated that much? Pep rallies - is there anything less cool than pep rallies?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:31 AM on May 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
Has the word really depreciated that much? Pep rallies - is there anything less cool than pep rallies?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:31 AM on May 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
Well, Kirth, when I attended pep rallies 20 years ago (oh holy shit I'm old), they were 1)mandatory 2)winkingly farcical.
posted by notsnot at 5:22 AM on May 3, 2012
posted by notsnot at 5:22 AM on May 3, 2012
Neither of those qualities normally contributes to cool, at least in my antique world.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 5:59 AM on May 3, 2012
posted by Kirth Gerson at 5:59 AM on May 3, 2012
It would be cool if we got...like totally...out of Afghanistan.
posted by incandissonance at 6:34 AM on May 3, 2012
posted by incandissonance at 6:34 AM on May 3, 2012
I think he truly just hates the circus, and sees it as a necessary evil on the way to getting a job in which he may use his buried pragmatism.
I think he wants power
posted by crayz at 6:44 AM on May 3, 2012
I think he wants power
posted by crayz at 6:44 AM on May 3, 2012
Because one of those things managed to wipe out decades of progress in less than 8 years.
Really? Because from where I sit, it looks like America's progress on economic issues has been backsliding for the past 30 years, mostly irrespective of which party controls government. Obama is the most left-wing president America has ever had since Richard Nixon
There's more give on social issues because there's not generally as much money and power framing the bounds of discussion. But the real failure of the Democratic party has been the belief that economic progress would follow social progress - get rights for women and blacks and gays and everyone, and then all us free people will make a better society. In fact the dominos fall the other direction - the social progress is mostly a hollow victory for ordinary people without any real economic prospects in life, and worse, any progress is inevitably in danger during crisises because scapegoating minorities is always the reactionaries plan A
We've wound up in a perpetual game of 2 steps back, 1 diagonal step forward. And anyone who starts trying to argue "maybe we need to try to take more steps forward, faster. we keep getting further away" is shouted down by people who can't understand how anyone could be opposed to progress and find debate tantamount to siding with the "2 steps back" people
posted by crayz at 7:01 AM on May 3, 2012 [2 favorites]
Really? Because from where I sit, it looks like America's progress on economic issues has been backsliding for the past 30 years, mostly irrespective of which party controls government. Obama is the most left-wing president America has ever had since Richard Nixon
There's more give on social issues because there's not generally as much money and power framing the bounds of discussion. But the real failure of the Democratic party has been the belief that economic progress would follow social progress - get rights for women and blacks and gays and everyone, and then all us free people will make a better society. In fact the dominos fall the other direction - the social progress is mostly a hollow victory for ordinary people without any real economic prospects in life, and worse, any progress is inevitably in danger during crisises because scapegoating minorities is always the reactionaries plan A
We've wound up in a perpetual game of 2 steps back, 1 diagonal step forward. And anyone who starts trying to argue "maybe we need to try to take more steps forward, faster. we keep getting further away" is shouted down by people who can't understand how anyone could be opposed to progress and find debate tantamount to siding with the "2 steps back" people
posted by crayz at 7:01 AM on May 3, 2012 [2 favorites]
I really just shoehorned that into a quote from Ripley in Aliens. But I guess you're saying we need to come up with a third option besides democrats and republicans? I agree with you. I also know we've got some of the smartest minds around, here on this site. I also know that as yet I get laughed at any time I suggest we figure out a way to mobilize. I think almost to a person, most here would agree that if there was a viable third option, most of us would choose it. The last time this discussion came up (assuming I didn't misread what you're suggesting) someone linked all of the possible 2012 candidates and asked who we should get behind. I never saw an answer.
posted by cashman at 7:34 AM on May 3, 2012
posted by cashman at 7:34 AM on May 3, 2012
I also know that as yet I get laughed at any time I suggest we figure out a way to mobilize. I think almost to a person, most here would agree that if there was a viable third option, most of us would choose it.
The only real way to get to a third option, or to reform one of the current ones, is to start at the bottom and slowly work up. Unfortunately a lot of liberals/progressives/whatever (in the US, not necessarily on MeFi) seem either unwilling to put in the time and effort rather than complain, or refute the idea of bottom-up change in favor of punishing the guy at the top and/or advocating revolutionary solutions that are essentially impossible to implement given the average American's engagement in politics.
Conservatives have spent the last 30 years packing the lower levels of government and working their way up, and it's been brutally effective in changing both the social and electoral landscape. And even issues that may not have majority support (notably, LGBT rights) at nationwide levels have been entrenched so far in the local and state arenas as to be extremely difficult to undo. Yet for whatever reason there's no real organized effort on the left to adopt these tactics apart from Dean's temporary 50-state strategy (which I would argue was both too federal-oriented and didn't go far enough).
posted by zombieflanders at 7:51 AM on May 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
The only real way to get to a third option, or to reform one of the current ones, is to start at the bottom and slowly work up. Unfortunately a lot of liberals/progressives/whatever (in the US, not necessarily on MeFi) seem either unwilling to put in the time and effort rather than complain, or refute the idea of bottom-up change in favor of punishing the guy at the top and/or advocating revolutionary solutions that are essentially impossible to implement given the average American's engagement in politics.
Conservatives have spent the last 30 years packing the lower levels of government and working their way up, and it's been brutally effective in changing both the social and electoral landscape. And even issues that may not have majority support (notably, LGBT rights) at nationwide levels have been entrenched so far in the local and state arenas as to be extremely difficult to undo. Yet for whatever reason there's no real organized effort on the left to adopt these tactics apart from Dean's temporary 50-state strategy (which I would argue was both too federal-oriented and didn't go far enough).
posted by zombieflanders at 7:51 AM on May 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
Conservatives have spent the last 30 years packing the lower levels of government and working their way up, and it's been brutally effective in changing both the social and electoral landscape.
There was an article on this just the other day, about how the tea party isn't focused on who is president, it is doing what you describe. The Tea Party isn't worried (it said) about big rallies, it is focused on getting groups of like 30 people who are then intensely focused on the outcomes of smaller races. It was in some mainstream publication online. I can't remember where I saw it. The Atlantic, CNN, something like that. I'll find it here in a minute.
posted by cashman at 8:25 AM on May 3, 2012
There was an article on this just the other day, about how the tea party isn't focused on who is president, it is doing what you describe. The Tea Party isn't worried (it said) about big rallies, it is focused on getting groups of like 30 people who are then intensely focused on the outcomes of smaller races. It was in some mainstream publication online. I can't remember where I saw it. The Atlantic, CNN, something like that. I'll find it here in a minute.
posted by cashman at 8:25 AM on May 3, 2012
Tea Party 2.0: Upgraded for 2012
"After the 2010 elections, what was interesting, we moved to what I call Tea Party 2.0," said Clyde Fabretti, a conservative activist affiliated with tea party groups in Florida such as the West Orlando Tea Party and the Central Florida Tea Party Council. "2.0 allows for ... our ability to accomplish legislative initiatives, supporting various tea party candidates that adhere to the principles and values. And we have been hugely active."posted by cashman at 8:30 AM on May 3, 2012 [2 favorites]
"But it isn't the kind of activity that makes the press," Fabretti continued. "I mean, when you put 5,000 people at an event, you know, everybody shows up with their cameras. You have 10 meetings with different legislators on [Capitol] Hill -- nobody knows about it."
With many activists still lukewarm to presumptive GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney, many in the movement say they will focus intensely on flipping the Senate into Republican hands.
This is sort of tangential but not really going to start a FPP about it, so will drop it here: Ron Paul may be angling to cause some Convention drama.
Now, I dislike me some Ron Paul, I think in some underhanded ways he is one of the most disingenuous candidates out there... but I would love it if he actually did sow disruption at the convention. Personally however I would bet he is going to try and force Romney into choosing Rand Paul as the VP nom.
posted by edgeways at 9:16 AM on May 3, 2012
Now, I dislike me some Ron Paul, I think in some underhanded ways he is one of the most disingenuous candidates out there... but I would love it if he actually did sow disruption at the convention. Personally however I would bet he is going to try and force Romney into choosing Rand Paul as the VP nom.
posted by edgeways at 9:16 AM on May 3, 2012
Well, part of it is just trying to figure out what would motivate Paul to make this big delegate push, when in the end, if taken to the convention, what it will accomplish is disruption and distraction at the point the GOP wants unity and focus.
Paul won't prevail in a convention fight, and I'm sure he knows it. So, why would he do it? Either to have Romney adopt some of his (Paul's positions), which is tricky as Romney will turn on a dime and throw those overboard as soon as it appears those positions may be even mildly inconvenient. the fellow is terribly inconsistent with his own positions. And I'm sure Paul knows this as well.
Or... what?
A Rand Paul VP pick would ensure Ron Paul still has some marginal stake in the outcome. Rand is not unknown, so it isn't from completely left (excuse me: right) field, and it would be a win for the people who support both Ron and Rand.
posted by edgeways at 9:37 AM on May 3, 2012
Paul won't prevail in a convention fight, and I'm sure he knows it. So, why would he do it? Either to have Romney adopt some of his (Paul's positions), which is tricky as Romney will turn on a dime and throw those overboard as soon as it appears those positions may be even mildly inconvenient. the fellow is terribly inconsistent with his own positions. And I'm sure Paul knows this as well.
Or... what?
A Rand Paul VP pick would ensure Ron Paul still has some marginal stake in the outcome. Rand is not unknown, so it isn't from completely left (excuse me: right) field, and it would be a win for the people who support both Ron and Rand.
posted by edgeways at 9:37 AM on May 3, 2012
In the very rare likelihood that it actually happens, my guess is that the RNC will either discover some minutiae in the bylaws to prevent it or just deny it to him outright.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:38 AM on May 3, 2012
posted by zombieflanders at 9:38 AM on May 3, 2012
The RNC has sucked it up irt Romney after a few months of "oooooooh god plz no not him!". I think they'd suck it up regarding a Rand Paul nom as well.
But, say that isn't Ron's end game, or that even if it is Romney doesn't play. And Ron actually captures enough delegates to force the issue... what IS the issue he wants to force? At this precise moment the Paul campaign is playing the system better than Romeny, and I think Paul's supporters are much much more motivated than Romney's.
yes, sure most likely it'll just be a washout, but at the same time I think it is something to keep an eye out for as one last wrinkle of the primary battle may be shaping up as Romney is taking his eye off the final stage of the first game.
posted by edgeways at 9:49 AM on May 3, 2012
But, say that isn't Ron's end game, or that even if it is Romney doesn't play. And Ron actually captures enough delegates to force the issue... what IS the issue he wants to force? At this precise moment the Paul campaign is playing the system better than Romeny, and I think Paul's supporters are much much more motivated than Romney's.
yes, sure most likely it'll just be a washout, but at the same time I think it is something to keep an eye out for as one last wrinkle of the primary battle may be shaping up as Romney is taking his eye off the final stage of the first game.
posted by edgeways at 9:49 AM on May 3, 2012
I'm really curious who Romney will go with for a VP pick. For a while, it seemed like he would need someone that would appeal to the more conservative right. If he goes that way, he would probably go after someone like Paul Ryan.
On the other hand, it's not like the hard right is going to vote Obama, so it might be a better bet to go with a pick that would win over moderates.
posted by drezdn at 11:30 AM on May 3, 2012
On the other hand, it's not like the hard right is going to vote Obama, so it might be a better bet to go with a pick that would win over moderates.
posted by drezdn at 11:30 AM on May 3, 2012
cashman's got it. The Tea Party people have been reading Saul Alinsky, which scares (and amuses) me a little. If the left would work less on being seen (hello, Occupy) and more on getting their candidates into lower offices and their delegates into state (and eventually national) conventions, they might make some progress.
posted by swerve at 12:13 PM on May 3, 2012
posted by swerve at 12:13 PM on May 3, 2012
I know someone who worked for the Ron Paul campaign locally in his state. When he and other Paul supporters showed up at the local caucus, he was astounded at all the procedural tricks the local Republican Party folks used to shut them out of the process. For instance, they had enough people to elect a Paul supporter to chair the caucus meeting, but they were informed that if a Paul supporter was the chair, he (or they) would be required to assume the costs of paying for the meeting hall and other caucus expenses.
He was so disillusioned by the experience that he had no enthusiasm for this story. If the GOP shut them out that thoroughly at the local level, he says, there's no way Paul's going to be allowed to have much influence at the convention.
posted by straight at 2:27 PM on May 3, 2012 [2 favorites]
He was so disillusioned by the experience that he had no enthusiasm for this story. If the GOP shut them out that thoroughly at the local level, he says, there's no way Paul's going to be allowed to have much influence at the convention.
posted by straight at 2:27 PM on May 3, 2012 [2 favorites]
My perception of Ron Paul is that he is just a man, consistent in his positions, who is intent on getting his ideas out there as much as possible. A presidential election allows him to do that. He knows he's not going to win. I don't think he has the pull to force a vp pick. His delegates don't matter because he doesn't have enough of them. But the fact that he gained delegates through the primary process shows that his ideas have merit and some segment of the population believe that he is the best pick. He's just trying to make his somewhat extreme positions more mainstream.
posted by Roger Dodger at 4:28 PM on May 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Roger Dodger at 4:28 PM on May 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
cashman's got it. The Tea Party people have been reading Saul Alinsky, which scares (and amuses) me a little. If the left would work less on being seen (hello, Occupy) and more on getting their candidates into lower offices and their delegates into state (and eventually national) conventions, they might make some progress.Who says they're not?
posted by delmoi at 8:20 PM on May 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
Mitt’s Mormon moment — when asked about Obama’s ‘treason’
posted by homunculus at 11:23 AM on May 8, 2012
posted by homunculus at 11:23 AM on May 8, 2012
The Anti-Obama ‘Metrosexual Black Abe Lincoln’ Ad Campaign Would’ve Been The Funniest Shit Ever
posted by homunculus at 7:07 PM on May 18, 2012
posted by homunculus at 7:07 PM on May 18, 2012
I don't understand why Romney would object to the idea of holding Obama responsible for every crazy thing a pastor in his church had ever said.
posted by straight at 3:42 PM on May 21, 2012
posted by straight at 3:42 PM on May 21, 2012
Barack O'Romney: Ignore what the candidates say they'll do differently on foreign policy. They're basically the same man.
posted by homunculus at 12:46 PM on May 29, 2012
posted by homunculus at 12:46 PM on May 29, 2012
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