Comments on: The Dino-Tomato connection

The Dino-Tomato connection

Renoroc — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:20:44 -0800

Why are tomatoes red? The answer will amaze you...

By: k5.user

k5.user — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:25:55 -0800

red ? I thought the new hipster-gardener trend was into purple and yellow heirlooms. Red is so pase.

By: fijiwriter

fijiwriter — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:29:37 -0800

Wait, I thought the Engineers from "Prometheus" had a hand in that. Space Jesus and all...

By: Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey

Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:30:08 -0800

Hipster tomato was red before Barney ever heard of a meteor.

By: East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94

East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:33:48 -0800

Not only was the asteroid responsible for the supremacy of mammals and the evolution of humanity, but also ketchup. Thanks asteroid. Thasteroid

By: Hoopo

Hoopo — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:36:11 -0800

Pretty sure ketchup is red for completely unrelated reasons, EMRJKC

By: Navelgazer

Navelgazer — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:37:08 -0800

Lycopene.

By: Devils Rancher

Devils Rancher — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:38:14 -0800

So, if I read that right, it's the blood of the dinosaurs.

By: EmpressCallipygos

EmpressCallipygos — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:38:31 -0800

No, not lycopene - it's red from the blood of all the martyred dinosaurs!

By: GenjiandProust

GenjiandProust — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:38:55 -0800

Tomatoes are the product of extraterrestrial meddling?!?

By: empath

empath — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:39:27 -0800

I don't think the article answered the question.

By: jph

jph — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:39:39 -0800

Ataaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack of the killer tomaaaaatooooooooes....

By: NathanBoy

NathanBoy — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:41:08 -0800

Still waiting to be amazed. Also still waiting to find out why tomatoes are red.

By: scruss

scruss — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:41:17 -0800

So if indeed the answer to "What's red and invisible?" is "No tomatoes", it can be conclusively proven that dinosaurs (like Imhotep) are invisible.

By: Celsius1414

Celsius1414 — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:42:27 -0800

This publication gives new insight which makes growing a salt-tolerant or an even more delicious tomato possible. But to do this, breeding companies would have to carry out additional research. Call me crazy, but eating home or locally grown tomatoes, instead of those tomato-like objects from the megamarts, seems to have solved the "even more delicious tomato" problem. They also appear to tolerate salt when using the ancient "sprinkling" technique. I realize this is a communist conspiracy of some kind, so I will try to get prepared for the Corporate Welfare Thoughtcrime Committee paramilitaries on their way to my current location.

By: Navelgazer

Navelgazer — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:42:46 -0800

scruss... I need you to tell me where you heard that joke. Because I have good reason to believe that it originates with an old friend of mine.

By: Celsius1414

Celsius1414 — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:44:29 -0800

No, not lycopene - it's red from the blood of all the martyred dinosaurs! And tomatoes are transported around the globe in machines powered by oil, which is mostly liquified dinosaur souls!

By: scruss

scruss — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:44:35 -0800

Navelgazer: Glasgow, mid-1990s.

By: Navelgazer

Navelgazer — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:46:37 -0800

Hmmm... Well, at least I no longer have that troublesome faith in my friends...

By: Plutor

Plutor — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:47:42 -0800

"We suspect that the meteorite crash and the resulting solar eclipse had created conditions difficult for plants to survive."

This seriously diminishes my trust in this article as a source of fact.

By: dunkadunc

dunkadunc — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:53:00 -0800

red ? I thought the new hipster-gardener trend was into purple and yellow heirlooms. Red is so pase. FFS. Anyone saying "Hipster" without understanding what they're talking about should be kneecapped.

By: dunkadunc

dunkadunc — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:53:22 -0800

Anyone saying "hipster" at all, actually.

By: twoleftfeet

twoleftfeet — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:55:32 -0800

And to this day, deep within the human psyche, there still lingers a memory of that terrible meteorite crash. This is why, when you see a bad stage performance, you throw a tomato.

By: notyou

notyou — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:56:58 -0800

That article doesn't explain why tomatoes are red.

By: shakespeherian

shakespeherian — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:57:15 -0800

Something something hipster Prometheus something something favorites grab.

By: slogger

slogger — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:57:40 -0800

I'm amazed!

By: twoleftfeet

twoleftfeet — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:01:03 -0800

This publication gives new insight which makes growing a salt-tolerant or an even more delicious tomato possible. But to do this, breeding companies would have to carry out additional research. Yeah, like that's going to happen. A more delicious tomato? We have research labs working around the clock to make a cubical tomato with a thick skin that can be packed more efficiently into a semi-truck. Flavor doesn't matter.

By: mule98J

mule98J — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:01:20 -0800

"In this way, the tomato differentiates itself from a family member, the potato, which has no edible fruits." Hang on. So, we can theoretically breed the tomato to their cousin, the potato, and get a plant you can eat from stem to stern, so to speak, the, um, topato. Maybe the pomato. I can't wait.

By: BrashTech

BrashTech — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:01:29 -0800

I got all excited about iridium-bearing pigments; left disappointed.

By: dirigibleman

dirigibleman — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:02:00 -0800

I'm pretty sure they're red because they selectively reflect electromagnetic waves in the range 630 nm to 740 nm.

By: twoleftfeet

twoleftfeet — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:03:49 -0800

a plant you can eat from stem to stern, so to speak, the, um, topato. Maybe the pomato. You say topato, I say pomato...

By: Think_Long

Think_Long — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:04:48 -0800

"We suspect that the meteorite crash and the resulting solar eclipse had created conditions difficult for plants to survive." This seriously diminishes my trust in this article as a source of fact. Is it stupid if I ask why? Is it because a Solar Eclipse is only for the astronomical event, or am I missing something?

By: rh

rh — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:06:23 -0800

we can theoretically breed the tomato to their cousin, the potato, and get a plant you can eat from stem to stern Potato/tomato chimera grafting

By: symbioid

symbioid — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:11:57 -0800

Roses are red, too. Two and two are four Four and eight are twelve There are twelve inches to a ruler. Queen Elizabeth was a ruler. Queen Elizabeth was a ship. Ships sail the sea. Fish swim in the sea. Fish have fins. The Finns fought the Russians, The Russians are red. Fire Engines are always Rushin' (get it? Russian, russian? I KILL ME!)... Oh. That's the answer to "why are fire engines red?" (from the shitty pun book I read when I was 6 and why I still remember that 30 years later, I have no clue)...

By: achrise

achrise — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:15:32 -0800

a plant you can eat from stem to stern, so to speak, the, um, topato. Maybe the pomato Pre-ketchup-ed French Fries?

By: clockzero

clockzero — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:18:39 -0800

"...A distant ancestor of the tomato plant then reacted by expanding its genome considerably in order to increase its chances of survival." I understand that this is presumably not meant literally, but it's really crucial in discussing evolution to not impute intentionality or the capacity to foresee events to the process. It's extremely lazy phrasing that reflects lazy thinking. This kind of fundamental conceptual illiteracy is a huge social issue, too, because when laypeople (especially uneducated and young laypersons) hear this metaphor used unselfconsciously over and over, they could very easily get the impression that even scientists might think that this is how evolution works.

By: twoleftfeet

twoleftfeet — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:22:17 -0800

What's black and white and red all over? A lot of people try to answer that question by referencing the solar eclipse that resulted from a meteorite crash 60 or 70 million years ago, which created dark skies and other conditions which made it difficult for plants to survive. These people point out that as the skies became lighter again, the genome expansion developed by the tomato led to a change in coloration. The actual answer though, is "a newspaper."

By: pokermonk

pokermonk — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:22:27 -0800

Also still waiting to find out why tomatoes are red. That article doesn't explain why tomatoes are red. My thought too. I think the specific question we want answered is "Why aren't common domesticated tomatoes purple?" and the question this study answers is "What changed the tomato genome to bring about common domesticated tomatoes that are red?" Both questions technically probe into "why tomatoes are red" – but are resolving very different aspects of the issue. Here's the actual study, which is definitely for someone much smarter about this stuff than me.

By: dios

dios — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:23:24 -0800

If I's to change this life I lead, I'd be Johnny Tomato Seed, `Cause I know what this country needs Homegrown tomatoes in every yard you see.

By: mazola

mazola — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:24:05 -0800

              ._      _.
              /  `""""`  \
         .-""`'-..____..-'`""-.
       /`\                    /`\
     /`   |                  |   `\
    /`    |     A  Meteor    |    `\
   /      |                  |      \
  /       /     Wiped Out    \       \
 /        |                  |        \
 '-._____.|     All the      |._____.-'
          |                  |
          |  Dinosaurs on    |
          |                  |
          \  Earth and All   |
          /                  |
          | I Got Was These  \
          |                  |
          |  Lousy Tomatoes  |
          |                  |
          '._              _.'
             `""--------""`

By: Ardiril

Ardiril — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:26:38 -0800

So, phys.org writes to the sixth grade level, eh?

By: pupdog

pupdog — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:27:23 -0800

So, we can theoretically breed the tomato to their cousin, the potato, and get a plant you can eat from stem to stern, so to speak, the, um, topato. Maybe the pomato. Topato? And I thought ketchup was red from the natural mellowing agents

By: jamjam

jamjam — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:31:57 -0800

When conditions subsequently improved again, this ancestor of the tomato got rid of a lot of genetic ballast, but the genetic base for fruit formation had already been developed by then, the tomato fruit acquired its red colour and certain genes which produced toxins disappeared, says Klein Lankhorst. In this way, the tomato differentiates itself from a family member, the potato, which has no edible fruits. I think this passage points to the real reason tomatoes turned red. Birds see red about as well as we do and prefer not to be poisoned. The original tomatoes were about the size of gooseberries, I've read, making them ideal for seed dispersal by birds. There might be an argument to be made about the dominance of birds after Chicxulub, but I'm not sure.

By: dr_dank

dr_dank — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:32:38 -0800

Because they're bloody.

By: asnider

asnider — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:40:43 -0800

I saw "meteorite" and "genome" and started hoping for alien DNA. I was disappointed by the lack of said alien interference.

By: kenko

kenko — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:42:53 -0800

Weren't the original tomatoes yellow, as k5.user (sort of) alludes to? Hence their being called "pomodoro" in Italian.

By: Plutor

Plutor — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:44:30 -0800

Think_Long: "Is it stupid if I ask why? Is it because a Solar Eclipse is only for the astronomical event, or am I missing something?" Nope, that's exactly it. An eclipse is a very specific event. The word can sometimes be used metaphorically (see: "Total Eclipse Of The Heart"). But using it metaphorically in reference to the sun or the moon is clumsy at best. And it makes me wonder if the science (or the reporting of the science) is clumsy, too.

By: GenjiandProust

GenjiandProust — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:02:29 -0800

I saw "meteorite" and "genome" and started hoping for alien DNA. I was disappointed by the lack of said alien interference. You think that meteorite got here by chance and gravity? The aliens that sent it were willing to wait for eons before their arrival so we would have evolved condiments. Condiments for the feasting, the awful feasting!

By: Phredward

Phredward — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:05:13 -0800

I thought that the answer was Tomatoes are artificially ripened with ethylene. But I think I will go with "dino blood" from now on.

By: BrashTech

BrashTech — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:11:06 -0800

Think_Long: "Is it stupid if I ask why? Is it because a Solar Eclipse is only for the astronomical event, or am I missing something?" Plutor: Nope, that's exactly it. An eclipse is a very specific event. The word can sometimes be used metaphorically (see: "Total Eclipse Of The Heart"). But using it metaphorically in reference to the sun or the moon is clumsy at best. And it makes me wonder if the science (or the reporting of the science) is clumsy, too. Yep, impact winter is the term they're looking for.

By: clockzero

clockzero — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:11:24 -0800

Weren't the original tomatoes yellow, as k5.user (sort of) alludes to? Hence their being called "pomodoro" in Italian. Actually, the naming itself anticipates the discord its etymology would one day provoke on the internet. Little-known fact.

By: khaibit

khaibit — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:17:27 -0800

You think that meteorite got here by chance and gravity? The aliens that sent it were willing to wait for eons before their arrival so we would have evolved condiments. Condiments for the feasting, the awful feasting! Is it possible that aliens may have influenced our distant plants? Some ancient alien theorist believe this to be so.

By: tempestuoso

tempestuoso — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:17:52 -0800

It's extremely lazy phrasing that reflects lazy thinking. That was my reaction as well. ~~A distant ancestor of the tomato plant then reacted by expanding its genome considerably~~ The genome of a distant ancestor of the modern tomato plant evolved considerably ~~in order to increase its chances of survival~~ as those plants lacking the mutations necessary for survival died.

By: stbalbach

stbalbach — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:19:04 -0800

My reading is that tomatoes were not originally big or red, but the meteor caused lots of variation to the genome due to the difficult environment, one of those variations was color red, and when the environment improved again the tomato still had the color red in its genome (the ones that survived) and so that's why it's red. The reason is just that, random variation got stuck in the genome. There may be some evolutionary benefit to being red but that's not mentioned in the article or technically even needed. Sometimes things just happen by randomness.

By: notyou

notyou — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:42:59 -0800

That's what the article says, stbalbach, and it's more or less the same a waving one's hands and saying, "There, presto! Red." The answer is "lycopene" which is a kind of carotene, both of which are chemicals involved in photo-synthesis and perhaps tomatoes (along with carrots and whatever else have lots of carotene in them) gained the use of this particular photo-sysnthesis related chemical in response to poor sunlight conditions prevailing following the meteor strike. Perhaps. The article doesn't say, 'cause it just handwaves and says "Meteor strike! Genome triple the size! Red!" It also doesn't explain how the tomato's genome could "triple in size". How does a genome grow? How does it triple? Oh, I know: Meteor strike!

By: notsnot

notsnot — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:05:48 -0800

mule98J: "So, we can theoretically breed the tomato to their cousin, the potato, and get a plant you can eat from stem to stern, so to speak, the, um, topato. Maybe the pomato." Topato is made of poison, FYI.

By: en forme de poire

en forme de poire — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:21:45 -0800

It also doesn't explain how the tomato's genome could "triple in size". How does a genome grow? How does it triple? Here is how. If you get an error during chromosome segregation it's actually pretty easy to double the number of chromosomes exactly. There are a ton of examples of species that have almost certainly undergone whole-genome duplications (e.g., e.g.). Essentially you compare the genome sequence to a close relative and look for chunks of duplicated genes in the same genomic order (shared synteny).

By: Cranberry

Cranberry — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:29:22 -0800

Tomatoes are red because Mother Nature was making a green salad and it looked pretty dull so she waved her wand and made tomatoes red fora charming contrast.

By: vidur

vidur — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:43:17 -0800

We suspect that the meteorite crash and the resulting solar eclipse had created conditions difficult for plants to survive. A distant ancestor of the tomato plant then reacted by expanding its genome considerably in order to increase its chances of survival. I wish I could do something like that. I mean, what with life being so stressful and all. But seriously, this was apparently a quote from "René Klein Lankhorst, the Wageningen UR coordinator of the tomato genome research project" and not something inferred by the publication. So, I decided to stop right there and not read further.

By: dgaicun

dgaicun — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:58:44 -0800

Why are tomatoes red? The answer will amaze you... When conditions subsequently improved again, this ancestor of the tomato got rid of a lot of genetic ballast, but the genetic base for fruit formation had already been developed by then, the tomato fruit acquired its red colour and certain genes which produced toxins disappeared, says Klein Lankhorst OK, I get it. Tomatoes are red because they acquired their red color. AMAZED.

By: Greg Nog

Greg Nog — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:31:32 -0800

Scientists have now discovered footage of the asteroid knocking on a window, shouting, "Do you like tomatoes? I'm exterminating huge swathes of life on your planet! How do you like THOSE tomatoes?"

By: Wordwoman

Wordwoman — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:53:06 -0800

So, we can theoretically breed the tomato to their cousin, the potato, and get a plant you can eat from stem to stern, so to speak, the, um, topato. Maybe the pomato. Here you go.

By: stbalbach

stbalbach — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:54:47 -0800

it's more or less the same a waving one's hands and saying, "There, presto! Red." Well, that's what they are saying. You're looking for a logical answer for why it's red. They are saying it happened randomly due to large number of variations that occurred at the time. Randomness doesn't need a logical explanation. It's very possible it's just bad science journalism, would have to see the original source to know what the authors were saying. So, there are two mysteries. (and I'm sure you meant: "There, Prego! Red")

By: mr_crash_davis

mr_crash_davis — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:59:59 -0800

I think trading dinosaurs for tomatoes was a good deal.

By: progosk

progosk — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 15:10:01 -0800

Is there a term for the mistaken active-mode narration that so drives me up the wall when it's used to describe evolutionary selection? "A distant ancestor of the tomato plant then reacted by expanding its genome considerably in order to increase its chances of survival" "this ancestor of the tomato got rid of a lot of genetic ballast, but the genetic base for fruit formation had already been developed by then, the tomato fruit acquired its red colour and certain genes which produced toxins disappeared" It's rampant amongst layman writers - but it's especially maddening when it creeps into scientific articles - which this, granted, perhaps isn't.

By: progosk

progosk — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 15:16:24 -0800

After preview (so to speak), what clockzero said.

By: dgaicun

dgaicun — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 15:20:59 -0800

Here is how. If you get an error during chromosome segregation it's actually pretty easy to double the number of chromosomes exactly. Chromosome segregation error? Sorry, but according to Albert Sikkema, who presumably read the paper, the tomato expanded "its genome considerably in order to increase its chances of survival". The tomato tripled its genome in order to survive, dummy. Then, some scientists say, it turned red by acquiring a red color. Other scientists, however, warn that that theory is still controversial.

By: en forme de poire

en forme de poire — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 16:11:40 -0800

Yup - inaccurate, teleology-invoking science writing is inaccurate and invokes teleology.

By: Buckt

Buckt — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 16:18:51 -0800

This is really bad science reporting, absurd speculation, and irritating media-whoring. The evidence is: "the rise of redness genes is coincident with the meteor." That's the finding. That's what you report and that's what got published. The speculation that it was an adaptive change following the changing environment is a hypothesis that belongs late in the discussion to potentially be tested at a later date. Grr...

By: empath

empath — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 16:23:40 -0800

I honestly think we should ban phys.org links. They are almost without exception badly written blog spam.

By: camdan

camdan — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 18:28:17 -0800

Here you go. posted by Wordwoman i don't always order pomatos from the world wide web, but when i do, i order them from a website created in 1998

By: sneebler

sneebler — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:12:14 -0800

This seriously diminishes my trust in this article as a source of fact. I honestly think we should ban phys.org links. They are almost without exception badly written blog spam. On the other hand, there isn't any ranting about GLO-BULL Warming in the comments section yet.

By: Kabanos

Kabanos — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 19:35:07 -0800

Tometeors.

By: dgaicun

dgaicun — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:56:06 -0800

I'm going to write and illustrate a comic book featuring a meek Finnish banker named Tom Äitto, and whenever he finds himself in a situation where his life is in danger (which, of course, will happen in every issue) his genome triples in size and he turns red. The first issue will feature a meteor strike, which holds the secrets behind his super abilities.

By: Segundus

Segundus — Fri, 15 Jun 2012 01:24:41 -0800

"...A distant ancestor of the tomato plant then reacted by expanding its genome considerably in order to increase its chances of survival." I understand that this is presumably not meant literally... Sure it is, we just had a smarter tomarter back then. Reconstructing their own genome was nothing to the Solanaceae - nothing, I tell ya! The world you kids live in today with its squeezy ketchup, you only got that because we all died in the war, but you don't see a hero; no, you just see an old man who gets spooked by tins in a supermarket.

By: obiwanwasabi

obiwanwasabi — Fri, 15 Jun 2012 01:44:45 -0800

FFS. Anyone saying "Hipster" without understanding what they're talking about should be kneecapped. By you and whose organic cigar-box ukulele, hipster?

By: gimonca

gimonca — Fri, 15 Jun 2012 04:59:27 -0800

The article doesn't say, 'cause it just handwaves and says "Meteor strike! Genome triple the size! Red!" When I hear things like this on cable TV, it's usually preceded by the phrase "According to ancient astronaut theorists...."