Marvel Comics ditches the Comics Code
October 25, 2001 4:59 AM Subscribe
Marvel Comics ditches the Comics Code - I haven't been with it in terms of comics for about 10 years now, but I found this article to be fairly interesting. Apparently, "Marvel is growing up with the rest of the country" (according to editor-in-chief Joe Quesada) by ditching the CCA and introducing its own internal "ratings system." I can't decide whether to stodgy and support the campiness of what I grew up with (DC's "Crisis On Infinite Earths," for one) or agree that comics should change (Captain America in a "compromising sexual situation," though?)...or perhaps I shouldn't really care, considering the last "comic" I picked up was the Watchmen graphic novel...and I have an inkling that not much out today could compare...
Ben Grimm: Yep, no Comic Code stamp on the cover of Green Arrow #1.
Granted, I knew that the CCA stamped comics that were to be sold on newsstands, which rarely happens anymore, but what I didn't know was that three companies still use the code (to some extent): DC, Archie...and Dark Horse. That last one surprised me.
posted by tpl1212 at 5:38 AM on October 25, 2001
Granted, I knew that the CCA stamped comics that were to be sold on newsstands, which rarely happens anymore, but what I didn't know was that three companies still use the code (to some extent): DC, Archie...and Dark Horse. That last one surprised me.
posted by tpl1212 at 5:38 AM on October 25, 2001
Hey, let's hear it for the Archie Comics code!
"Any use must portray the characters in a manner which is substantially consistent with the wholesome manner in which they are portrayed in the comic books published by ACP. For example, they shall; (a) not be depicted in explicit activities inappropriate for a youthful audience; (b) always be shown wearing seat belts when driving; (c) never be shown taking drugs; (d) never be shown smoking; (e) never be shown drinking alcoholic beverages; (f) never be shown nude; (g) never be shown engaging in violent or abusive behavior; (h) never be shown in knowingly engaging in illegal activities; and (i) never be shown engaging in any activity which is contradictory to the commitment of ACP to the use of the characters to promote good dental and personal hygiene."
posted by gluechunk at 5:48 AM on October 25, 2001
"Any use must portray the characters in a manner which is substantially consistent with the wholesome manner in which they are portrayed in the comic books published by ACP. For example, they shall; (a) not be depicted in explicit activities inappropriate for a youthful audience; (b) always be shown wearing seat belts when driving; (c) never be shown taking drugs; (d) never be shown smoking; (e) never be shown drinking alcoholic beverages; (f) never be shown nude; (g) never be shown engaging in violent or abusive behavior; (h) never be shown in knowingly engaging in illegal activities; and (i) never be shown engaging in any activity which is contradictory to the commitment of ACP to the use of the characters to promote good dental and personal hygiene."
posted by gluechunk at 5:48 AM on October 25, 2001
Now, if the Green Lantern had oral sex with Frederick Wertham, the Comics Code would spontaneously combust.
As a small boy in 72 I bought the first Marvel comic that didn't carry that peculiar seal - a Spider-Man comic that featured a pill-popping Peter Parker pal.
Say that ten times quickly.
posted by lileks at 6:42 AM on October 25, 2001
As a small boy in 72 I bought the first Marvel comic that didn't carry that peculiar seal - a Spider-Man comic that featured a pill-popping Peter Parker pal.
Say that ten times quickly.
posted by lileks at 6:42 AM on October 25, 2001
crisis on infinite earths was campy? i'm sorry, but to my 13-year old brain, the disintegration death of the flash was pretty damn devastating.
posted by grabbingsand at 6:44 AM on October 25, 2001
posted by grabbingsand at 6:44 AM on October 25, 2001
It's a desperation move. The comics industry has been in major trouble for a long time; sales have plummeted. There was a time when a successful comic sold 5 million copies per month; now few sell more than half a million. Marvel in particular has been bleeding money for years. They're hoping that by doing this they can attract back the readers who gave up and left.
It might even work; such comics as "Watchmen" and the Sandman series, which blatantly violated the CCA, did very well. (It didn't hurt that they were superbly written, of course.)
posted by Steven Den Beste at 6:49 AM on October 25, 2001
It might even work; such comics as "Watchmen" and the Sandman series, which blatantly violated the CCA, did very well. (It didn't hurt that they were superbly written, of course.)
posted by Steven Den Beste at 6:49 AM on October 25, 2001
Alan Moore, the author of the Watchmen, is still out there writing some really good stuff. Promethea, The League of Extraordiary Gentlemen and Top Ten are all amazingly good reads.
I find that I'm not all that interested in the Marvel MAX (for mature audiences only) comics. Part of the appeal of superhero comics has always been its retro, sweetly innocent appeal. So an "edgier" Captain America? What's the point?
posted by rks404 at 7:16 AM on October 25, 2001
I find that I'm not all that interested in the Marvel MAX (for mature audiences only) comics. Part of the appeal of superhero comics has always been its retro, sweetly innocent appeal. So an "edgier" Captain America? What's the point?
posted by rks404 at 7:16 AM on October 25, 2001
Speaking of superbly written comic books, (it's not a thread hijack, it's a segue!), check out Warren Ellis' work, especially The Authority, which, besides being a well-written and superbly drawn title, features a thinly disguised Batman and Superman as a gay couple.
posted by whuppy at 7:19 AM on October 25, 2001
posted by whuppy at 7:19 AM on October 25, 2001
I was "into" collecting comics but I ended with the Watchmen and Ronin books which I just didn't "get". I preferred comics with complete stories or standalone issues that were part of a series.
posted by DBAPaul at 8:15 AM on October 25, 2001
posted by DBAPaul at 8:15 AM on October 25, 2001
Well, they've had license to ignore the code (as the many examples above indicate) - so why not go ahead and ignore it?
I think they're inviting a nation (I'm speaking of the US of course) to pay them attention for not having any kind of ratings system, which is probably bad for them. Music and movies and TV and videogames are all adopting /more/ detailed ratings systems (heck, even radio ads for movies indicate whether there's nudity, profanity, etc).
Note: I'm AGAINST censorship, but there's a small amount of consumer information needed to indicate to parents what might be a bit outre for junior, and to retailers where they might stock certain titles. It's difficult to tell from the cover of something whether it's suitable or not. Used to be the comics retailers were very careful about putting more adult fare on higher displays, with indications about content. I see this less, and I think it indicates a problem. I propose self-rating - and indicate the age range for comics -- All ages | 10+ | 13+ 16+ 18+ 21+ -- the comics business is already on death's door - why invite lots of expensive legal problems by removing all semblance of ratings?
posted by artlung at 8:59 AM on October 25, 2001
I think they're inviting a nation (I'm speaking of the US of course) to pay them attention for not having any kind of ratings system, which is probably bad for them. Music and movies and TV and videogames are all adopting /more/ detailed ratings systems (heck, even radio ads for movies indicate whether there's nudity, profanity, etc).
Note: I'm AGAINST censorship, but there's a small amount of consumer information needed to indicate to parents what might be a bit outre for junior, and to retailers where they might stock certain titles. It's difficult to tell from the cover of something whether it's suitable or not. Used to be the comics retailers were very careful about putting more adult fare on higher displays, with indications about content. I see this less, and I think it indicates a problem. I propose self-rating - and indicate the age range for comics -- All ages | 10+ | 13+ 16+ 18+ 21+ -- the comics business is already on death's door - why invite lots of expensive legal problems by removing all semblance of ratings?
posted by artlung at 8:59 AM on October 25, 2001
Note to self: must READ ARTICLE before commenting in order to not sound clueless.
Move along...
posted by artlung at 9:06 AM on October 25, 2001
Move along...
posted by artlung at 9:06 AM on October 25, 2001
disclaimer: I am a huge comics dork, and I work part time in a comic book store on weekends.
I think this is a great move for Marvel. It's a known fact that the average comic reader's average age has increased over the years -- the people spending the most money on comics these days are in their mid-twenties. DC comics has cornered the "mature" comics market for the past decade with their Vertigo books (which include Sandman, Hellblazer, Warren Ellis' Transmetropolitan, and Preacher).
Marvel has been trapped by the code into being the same ol' cheesy superhero factory, and by dropping it they can start to tap into the Vertigo market and have some fun in the process. They've actually been moving in this direction for a couple years. The Marvel Knights line of books, which includes Daredevil, Black Panther, and Punisher, have been exploring more mature themes recently, and dropping the code just gives them more room. It's not like they're going totally crazy -- they have implemented a self-policing ratings policy that seems to work pretty well -- but they are having fun. Daredevil is an amazingly good read, and Garth Ennis' Punisher (labeled for mature readers) is a great, hilariously violent and over-the-top take on the character. Even the classic "X-Books" get in on the fun: Peter Milligan and Mike Allred's X-Force is the most daring take on Marvel's Mutants that I've ever seen.
All that aside, Marvel still makes some great books that I wouldn't (and don't) hesitate to hand over to an eight-year-old. The "Ultimate" line of books are really well-written re-launches of some of Marvel's most famous characters (Spider-Man, The X-Men, The Avengers) marketed directly to younger readers. The idea is that those characters have become so overburdened by years of continuity that the average kid can't pick up a Spider-Man comic and know what the heck's going on. So they started them over from scratch, outside of the Marvel Universe proper, and in their own, modern "Ultimate" universe, thereby making them that much more accessible.
I could go on about all of this for hours, but I'll save it for the Comics message boards...... sorry for the long-winded reply!
posted by brand-gnu at 9:19 AM on October 25, 2001
I think this is a great move for Marvel. It's a known fact that the average comic reader's average age has increased over the years -- the people spending the most money on comics these days are in their mid-twenties. DC comics has cornered the "mature" comics market for the past decade with their Vertigo books (which include Sandman, Hellblazer, Warren Ellis' Transmetropolitan, and Preacher).
Marvel has been trapped by the code into being the same ol' cheesy superhero factory, and by dropping it they can start to tap into the Vertigo market and have some fun in the process. They've actually been moving in this direction for a couple years. The Marvel Knights line of books, which includes Daredevil, Black Panther, and Punisher, have been exploring more mature themes recently, and dropping the code just gives them more room. It's not like they're going totally crazy -- they have implemented a self-policing ratings policy that seems to work pretty well -- but they are having fun. Daredevil is an amazingly good read, and Garth Ennis' Punisher (labeled for mature readers) is a great, hilariously violent and over-the-top take on the character. Even the classic "X-Books" get in on the fun: Peter Milligan and Mike Allred's X-Force is the most daring take on Marvel's Mutants that I've ever seen.
All that aside, Marvel still makes some great books that I wouldn't (and don't) hesitate to hand over to an eight-year-old. The "Ultimate" line of books are really well-written re-launches of some of Marvel's most famous characters (Spider-Man, The X-Men, The Avengers) marketed directly to younger readers. The idea is that those characters have become so overburdened by years of continuity that the average kid can't pick up a Spider-Man comic and know what the heck's going on. So they started them over from scratch, outside of the Marvel Universe proper, and in their own, modern "Ultimate" universe, thereby making them that much more accessible.
I could go on about all of this for hours, but I'll save it for the Comics message boards...... sorry for the long-winded reply!
posted by brand-gnu at 9:19 AM on October 25, 2001
It really is a pity to have dead-ended at Watchmen when there's so much good stuff that's come out since. Virtually anything by Alan Moore, of course -- especially From Hell, but even his never-produced Twilight of the Superheroes -- but also the excellent noir crime work of Brian Michael Bendis, the mindbending stuff Grant Morrison has put out, especially The Invisibles, the excellent design work and cool stories of Brian Wood. . . it really is a damned shame that all anyone thinks about is freaking super-heroes.
posted by matt8313 at 9:29 AM on October 25, 2001
posted by matt8313 at 9:29 AM on October 25, 2001
Yeah, that's why I switched to manga years ago.... too much superheroism. Not saying all superheroes are bad, but comics can do other things too.
posted by Charmian at 10:17 AM on October 25, 2001
posted by Charmian at 10:17 AM on October 25, 2001
I agree with matt8313. There are wonderful works out there with superheros, but there is also so much more than people don't bother to learn about.
I highly recommend anyone to get ALL of Gary Millidge's Strangehaven, and ALL the ongoing edition of Lone Wolf and Cub by Dark Horse Comics. I consider those two the better comics being published at the moment.
posted by Iosephus at 10:22 AM on October 25, 2001
I highly recommend anyone to get ALL of Gary Millidge's Strangehaven, and ALL the ongoing edition of Lone Wolf and Cub by Dark Horse Comics. I consider those two the better comics being published at the moment.
posted by Iosephus at 10:22 AM on October 25, 2001
Oh, and I probably should've thought of this in my last post, but for solid critical analyses of comic books -- non-superhero and intelligent super-hero alike -- I can highly recommend SAVANT and Ninth Art. Smart stuff, for the most part.
Sorta-kinda self-link, since I do write for SAVANT. But it really is a good website, honest.
posted by matt8313 at 12:37 PM on October 25, 2001
Sorta-kinda self-link, since I do write for SAVANT. But it really is a good website, honest.
posted by matt8313 at 12:37 PM on October 25, 2001
Okay, I am hijacking the thread.
(Can we even say hijacking the thread anymore?)
So my wife and I saw the pilot of Smallville two weeks ago, and my wife (who doesn't read comics, but likes superhero-oriented stuff, e.g. Unbreakable, Buffy, etc.) thought it was fantastic. (I'd give it a "pretty okay"). Then we saw the next episode and both gave it a resounding "ehhh".
So can anyone suggest a good Superman novel, graphic novel or trade paperback? (Note: I got Peace on Earth -- but that's the kind of caliber writing I'm looking for.)
posted by Shadowkeeper at 12:55 PM on October 25, 2001
(Can we even say hijacking the thread anymore?)
So my wife and I saw the pilot of Smallville two weeks ago, and my wife (who doesn't read comics, but likes superhero-oriented stuff, e.g. Unbreakable, Buffy, etc.) thought it was fantastic. (I'd give it a "pretty okay"). Then we saw the next episode and both gave it a resounding "ehhh".
So can anyone suggest a good Superman novel, graphic novel or trade paperback? (Note: I got Peace on Earth -- but that's the kind of caliber writing I'm looking for.)
posted by Shadowkeeper at 12:55 PM on October 25, 2001
Shadowkeeper -- I would highly recommend Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale's Superman for all Seasons. It's a great story that really captures the essence of the character. I'd also recommend the Superman Archives vol. 1 Hardcover, full of old-school Supes stories from the 40's.
posted by brand-gnu at 1:23 PM on October 25, 2001
posted by brand-gnu at 1:23 PM on October 25, 2001
Well, they're long since out of print, but I've always loved the Superman novels Last Son of Krypton and its sequel, Miracle Monday. Track down some used copies if you can.
posted by webmutant at 1:43 PM on October 25, 2001
posted by webmutant at 1:43 PM on October 25, 2001
Shadowkeeper: In keeping with my theme today, I'd highly recommend Alan Moore's excellent "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?". Also, Mark Waid and Alex Ross's Kingdom Come, although not exclusively a Superman story, is quite good. (Eliot S! Maggin's novelization is forgettable and should be ignored.)
posted by matt8313 at 2:20 PM on October 25, 2001
posted by matt8313 at 2:20 PM on October 25, 2001
As the world's biggest Superman fan (it's true, it's true). I would recommend the World's Finest miniseries, Man of Steel for some old school, The Greatest Superman Stories Ever Told, and agree with Superman for All Seasons. Superman: Generations is fun, silly stuff. Also any of the recent JLA stuff and issues with the new Superman creative team are good.
posted by owillis at 2:33 PM on October 25, 2001
posted by owillis at 2:33 PM on October 25, 2001
Hey owillis what do you think about Supes new look for the Justice League cartoons? He's made to look more mature. Batman's gone back to the Dark Knight from Detective Comics look.
posted by riffola at 2:59 PM on October 25, 2001
posted by riffola at 2:59 PM on October 25, 2001
Hey all you supes fans up there, did any of you read that god-awful Worlds at War storyline? I had to drop all my superman titles after that.
Is DC doing anything that good these days? It seems the pendulum had swung back to marvel. mid 90's marvel sucked a dong, but quesada and jemas have really done a lot of great things to make it exciting again. MAX is so-so, but the ultimate titles rock. Getting Bendis, Ennis and lots of DC scribes who probably would've loved to work w/ Marvel characters( all the young writers today grew up on Marvel) but not w/ Marvel have made the transition and the Marvel universe is actually interesting again! DC's got some good titles, but I can't even afford all the Marvel titles I want to buy now. And have you read any of the things Jemas has been saying? He's like a carnie, the Vince McMahon of comics, and sales are up for it.
Just seems like the most interesting (w/out sucking like Image) thing to happen in comics in a long time.
posted by dig_duggler at 7:45 PM on October 25, 2001
Is DC doing anything that good these days? It seems the pendulum had swung back to marvel. mid 90's marvel sucked a dong, but quesada and jemas have really done a lot of great things to make it exciting again. MAX is so-so, but the ultimate titles rock. Getting Bendis, Ennis and lots of DC scribes who probably would've loved to work w/ Marvel characters( all the young writers today grew up on Marvel) but not w/ Marvel have made the transition and the Marvel universe is actually interesting again! DC's got some good titles, but I can't even afford all the Marvel titles I want to buy now. And have you read any of the things Jemas has been saying? He's like a carnie, the Vince McMahon of comics, and sales are up for it.
Just seems like the most interesting (w/out sucking like Image) thing to happen in comics in a long time.
posted by dig_duggler at 7:45 PM on October 25, 2001
riffola: looks cool, I'll be setting Tivo to grab that one
dig_duggler: I actually liked the Worlds at War storyline, that godawful time travel arc from last year just went on and on though...
I still stay away from Marvel (although Ultimate Spider-Man was good). I mean, Extreme X-Men? Ugh.
posted by owillis at 8:08 PM on October 25, 2001
dig_duggler: I actually liked the Worlds at War storyline, that godawful time travel arc from last year just went on and on though...
I still stay away from Marvel (although Ultimate Spider-Man was good). I mean, Extreme X-Men? Ugh.
posted by owillis at 8:08 PM on October 25, 2001
Comics have slowly been phasing out the CCA for years. Look at these three versions of the CCA seal:
The seal has gone from being a fairly large "stamp-edged" free floating box to a tiny rectangle attached to the issue box.
posted by dogwelder at 8:08 PM on October 25, 2001
The seal has gone from being a fairly large "stamp-edged" free floating box to a tiny rectangle attached to the issue box.
posted by dogwelder at 8:08 PM on October 25, 2001
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For more risque superhero stuff, sample DC's Green Arrow (written by film director Kevin Smith). Issue #1 of last spring's relaunch has a scene depicting Green Arrow goin' down on the Black Canary! This series happens to be DC's current #1 best seller (and also their only superhero title not stamped with the Comics Code approval).
posted by Ben Grimm at 5:27 AM on October 25, 2001