October 26, 2001

9:31 AM

Tourist Jailed for Oral SexA German tourist who pleaded guilty to having oral sex in Zambia was sentenced on Thursday to six years in jail with hard labor, court officials said. Note to self: cancel Zambia honeymoon plans.
posted by arielmeadow (35 comments total)

Ah yes, this is truly what prison is for: keeping dangerous criminals out of society, away from us that chose to only participate in "conventional" sex acts.

What I want to know is why was he doing this out in the bush? Get a room!
posted by mathowie at 9:36 AM on October 26, 2001

that sucks.
posted by donovan at 9:36 AM on October 26, 2001

Mapate said, adding that he had been lenient because Seifarth was a first offender.

How does he know that? A 60 year old guy? Teutonic or not, I hope that's not his first offense.
posted by yerfatma at 9:38 AM on October 26, 2001

A 22-year-old Zambian woman, Pumulo Mbangweta, who performed the sex act on him in a bush near Mazabuka, was not charged, according to court records.

Fair too.
posted by skallas at 9:48 AM on October 26, 2001

donovan: I disagree, I think that blows.
posted by msacheson at 10:05 AM on October 26, 2001

A 22-year-old Zambian woman, Pumulo Mbangweta, who performed the sex act on him in a bush near Mazabuka, was not charged, according to court records.

Fair too.

haven't you heard?

'tis better to give than receive...
posted by ColdChef at 10:28 AM on October 26, 2001

since when is oral sex condemned in the Christian Bible - or considered unnatural?

maybe those pages were ripped out of my Bible.
posted by tsarfan at 10:32 AM on October 26, 2001

Yipes. I guess he didn't use the Clinton defense. He needs a better lawyer. He could have even used the O.J. defense and bring the woman in to show that "if it doesn't fit, you must acquit."
posted by Stretch at 10:45 AM on October 26, 2001

Zambia is by law a Christian nation, and frowns on any form of unconventional sex or sexual relationships. Last year a German citizen was deported after being found guilty of sodomy, police spokesman Lemmy Kajoba said on Thursday.

And some people wonder why gay people are scared of the Falwells and Dobsons who insist the USA is a "Christian" nation...
posted by mdeatherage at 11:21 AM on October 26, 2001

kudos to tsarfan:

Which of the 10 commandments does oral sex violate?

None? Oh, so the so-called christian moralists are really getting their moral codes from somewhere else.

Who could it be . . .

is it the bible? No . . .

Could it be . . . . SATAN!?!
posted by yesster at 11:34 AM on October 26, 2001

Ahh yes. Send him to prison. That will certainly keep him from having oral and anal sex.
posted by bondcliff at 11:56 AM on October 26, 2001

bondcliff: LOL
posted by o2b at 12:01 PM on October 26, 2001

I don't think oral sex is specifically prohibited biblically. I personally suspect some ancient dyslexic translator misinterpreted the "don't eat pork" section.
posted by UncleFes at 12:08 PM on October 26, 2001

The fact of the matter is, this guy was an idiot. Arrested for doing something 'immoral' in an unfamiliar nation with unfamiliar laws and an unfamiliar culture? Then by all means, represent yourself. I mean hell, this guy tried to claim that the law didn't apply to him because he didn't know the law applied to him.

The article specifically mentioned someone else who simply got deported for sodomy, (which I'm sure is worse), and the woman who performed the act got off. I bet she had a lawyer.

Yesh, what a moron. I can't say he deserves it, but I don't feel to much pity for him either.
posted by delmoi at 12:11 PM on October 26, 2001

"Then again, I don't think I've ever heard of such a thing as a bad blowjob."

You've obviously not been to the same websites I have.
posted by bondcliff at 12:18 PM on October 26, 2001

er. attempting to close?
posted by fishfucker at 12:20 PM on October 26, 2001

Then again, I don't think I've ever heard of such a thing as a bad blowjob

I got one once. The guy had this broken tooth. Took a long time for that to heal.
posted by yesster at 12:22 PM on October 26, 2001

sorry; that looks kinda snarky as it is -- i meant i was attempting to close.
posted by fishfucker at 12:23 PM on October 26, 2001

"The article specifically mentioned someone else who simply got deported for sodomy, (which I'm sure is worse), and the woman who performed the act got off."

I'm sure she did, but was she punished for it?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:41 PM on October 26, 2001

The article specifically mentioned someone else who simply got deported for sodomy, (which I'm sure is worse), and the woman who performed the act got off. I bet she had a lawyer.

Umm got any facts to support this? How do you know the deportee didn't plead guilty also? How do you know the woman had a lawyer? If you read the article carefully the woman was not even charged and there's nothing about the previous case except the outcome.
posted by skallas at 12:43 PM on October 26, 2001

If he pled guilty, how much "defending" did he actually do?
posted by jpoulos at 1:23 PM on October 26, 2001

since when is oral sex condemned in the Christian Bible - or considered unnatural?

I'm exactly the type of dyed-in-the-wool, fundamentalist, "The Bible is literally true" Christian that a lot of you don't like... and there's nothing I know of about that in my Bible either. I must have missed the addendum.

The only Christians I've ever seen object to oral sex (within marriage) are some Catholics, presumably drawing from their church traditions instead of scripture. Oh, and terrified parents.
posted by gd779 at 1:25 PM on October 26, 2001

Lord knows the priests don't have a problem with it.
posted by bondcliff at 1:40 PM on October 26, 2001

Good luck, Mr Gorsky.
posted by Zootoon at 2:29 PM on October 26, 2001

The only Christians I've ever seen object to oral sex (within marriage) are some Catholics, presumably drawing from their church traditions instead of scripture.

Man I love stuff like this-- what "church traditions?" Damnit, all those girls around me in those Catholic school uniforms and I had no idea we had oral sex traditions.

I miss out on every cool thing. Maybe I should have asked the nuns.
posted by yerfatma at 3:10 PM on October 26, 2001

yerfatma: Since I'm not Catholic myself, I apologize if I misrepresented Catholicism in any way. It was my understanding, formed after many long conversations with Catholic friends, that tradition combined with Scripture formed the basis of Catholic faith.
posted by gd779 at 3:29 PM on October 26, 2001

gd:

there is no formal tradition that explicitly states "thou shalt not give head" or "thou shalt not muff-dive." i can't remember any such thing once being broached in my catechism classes, and of course my parents never said nothing. not that i would have listened if i had been told, but i truly hadn't.

as for scripture, i have absolutely no idea where it would be stated that you can't have oral sex. it would be interesting to know, in a "gee that's neat" kind of way, but not in a "hey this will change my mind" kind of way.
posted by moz at 3:46 PM on October 26, 2001

Maybe it's from that story about Onan spilling his seed on the ground. He jerked off, got in trouble. Some people read this as meaning that God doesn't want you to "spill your seed" unless pregnancy is the end goal.

Sorry, this is a bit vague since I haven't read the bible in about 5 years, and I don't own one to look it up in.
posted by croutonsupafreak at 4:16 PM on October 26, 2001

::: suggests folks look up "sodomy" in a biblical concordance (sheesh...leave it to the agnostics!) :::
posted by rushmc at 4:44 PM on October 26, 2001

Silly rabbit, Sex is for Kids.
[err....procreation]
and that makes any other type of bumping, grinding, diving, spilling, etc...going against the will of God-dude since that wasn't the intent.

that is the way it has been explained to me by some very conservative types. Personally, i think it is just an excuse to be really really bad in bed--cause it doesn't matter, and so why should a married woman expect an orgasm? Hmmm.

i have a mormon friend in washington that was told by her bishop that it was a no-no. i have another mormon friend in utah who was told that consensual Anything is Ok. [only if married of course.] Probably depends on the personal hang-ups of whoever is preaching about it.

if the bible would have got specific it should have been something like Thou shalt not use teeth.
posted by th3ph17 at 5:56 PM on October 26, 2001

<ReligionFilter>

Maybe it's from that story about Onan spilling his seed on the ground. He jerked off, got in trouble. Some people read this as meaning that God doesn't want you to "spill your seed" unless pregnancy is the end goal.

You've mixed up the facts of the story in a pretty significant way. Onan wasn't masturbating, he was having sex with his deceased brother's wife, only he chose not to inseminate her.

Everywhere else in the Bible, God deliberately spells out specific sins. The 10 commandments, for example. Aside from the story of Onan, the Bible never even mentions masturbation, contraception, or non-standard sex that I'm aware of. Given that, to conclude on the basis of this story alone that it is a sin to participate in anything but "standard sex for the purpose of impregnation" is highly questionable at best.

Since the Bible doesn't tell us anything about the nature of Onan's sin, only that he is killed for it, it seems reasonable to infer that Onan's sin violates some more generic principle laid out elsewhere in the Bible.

I think the better view is that Onan's sin was in shirking his responsibility. Specifically, since Onan's brother had died childless, Onan's society expected him to impregnate his dead brother's widow. Though it is very hard for modern society to accept, that expectation was beneficial to society as a whole, because it helped to prevent a family line from dying out. In fact, the Bible later makes it a specific sin to not "raise up seed" to a brother who died married but childless. That seems to support my view of Onan's sin.

Perhaps (and I'm speculating here) an appropriate modern-day analogy would be the rich lawyer who refuses to help his low-income parents pay their financially devastating medical bills. Like Onan, the lawyer has violated his societal obligation to his family. Though neither the lawyer nor Onan had any specific prohibition from God regarding their callous rejection of their societal duty, God does explicitly expect man to provide for the needs of others, particularly family. That need could be financial or, in the case of Onan, societal. (Admittedly, Onan had to fulfill a kind of gross need. But things were different back then, and they were not always pleasant.)

In any event, I think that it's clear that the Bible doesn't explicitly condemn, as sin, non-standard sex. (I'm excluding homosexuality, which is specifically addressed by the Bible). In my view, if the Bible doesn't explicitly ban it, it's fair game.

However, in fairness to those who agree with me, you could perhaps make an argument, based on reasoned theology, that masturbation, contraception, and non-standard sex are immoral and prohibited. Personally, every argument I've heard to that affect seemed logically flawed to me, and also I don't put much faith in man's ability to extrapolate God's law. So I prefer to stick with only what is clearly condemned. But then again, if you believe (as I understand Catholics to believe) that the Church has been given some Divine wisdom in the interpretation of Scripture, perhaps that view would make sense.

</ReligionFilter>
posted by gd779 at 7:03 PM on October 26, 2001

by the way, crouton, I didn't mean to come off all snarky towards you. You're memory of the story was actually pretty good. In fact, I'd forgotten about it entirely until you brought it up.
posted by gd779 at 7:14 PM on October 26, 2001

<sings style="best English accent">Every sperm is sacred; Every sperm is great; If a sperm is wasted; God gets quite irate.</sings>
posted by tippiedog at 8:25 PM on October 26, 2001

"A young Zambian woman and a white man who were alleged to be involved in a dog sex scandal narrowly escaped lynching by an angry mob of people when the duo was spotted at Kitwe Central Hospital."

"Zambia declared itself "a Christian country" in l991...Everyday 200 people in this country die of AIDS; in ten years one fifth of the population will have died in what has been called viral genocide'...'It is pointless to talk about masturbation when we all know that it is untraditional and un-Christian,' noted one. Kennedy Phiri, YMCA national vice president said that as a Christian organization talking about the act was out of the question, because it was generally viewed as 'a sin.'"

Imprison foreigners for fellatio, accuse mixed-race couples of bestiality, condemn masturbation: how NOT to cope with HIV/AIDS in Zambia.
posted by Carol Anne at 7:41 AM on October 27, 2001