Juggalos vs. The FBI

August 13, 2012 6:18 AM

At the 2012 Gathering of the Juggalos, the Insane Clown Posse announced their intention of suing the Federal Bureau of Investigation over their recent designation of the ICP fan base as a hybrid gang. The band established Juggalos fight back to gather information regarding government harassment of the Juggalo population.
posted by dr_dank (83 comments total)

First they came for the Juggalos and I didn't speak out because, come on, they're Juggalos.
posted by Egg Shen at 6:29 AM on August 13, 2012 [118 favorites]

Perhaps Washington will strategic seek ties with the more established KISS Army.
posted by hanoixan at 6:31 AM on August 13, 2012 [42 favorites]

I'm going to write a sequence of words, right here, right now, that I never thought I could possibly ever write:

I think the Juggalos have the right of it, and I support them.
posted by Tomorrowful at 6:33 AM on August 13, 2012 [29 favorites]

This goes deeper than we thought.
posted by dirtdirt at 6:34 AM on August 13, 2012 [5 favorites]

Wait until the FBI discovers the TeaParty.
posted by HuronBob at 6:36 AM on August 13, 2012 [17 favorites]

Looks like they haven't actually done it yet.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:37 AM on August 13, 2012 [1 favorite]

So, the FBI is going to assign how many agents to track this "gang"?
How much in resources is Uncle Scam going to spend on this?

I think the FBI will have to send a few agents to monitor the ICP show in Vegas,
but that other ICP show in Boise, ID - there are no suspicious reports from there.
posted by Flood at 6:41 AM on August 13, 2012 [1 favorite]

The thing I loved about Jackie Chan's Rumble in the Bronx was that there's this group of bad guys that he's fighting, and you really hate them because they're not the good guys. But then this group of much badder guys shows up. These new guys are so bad that Jackie and the original bad guys team up to fight them, so now you find yourself rooting for the original bad guys against the much worse guys.
posted by etc. at 6:43 AM on August 13, 2012 [36 favorites]

Looks like they haven't actually done it yet.

Well, no. That's probably why the FPP says "announced their intention of suing" rather than, you know, "sued."

That's kind of missing the point, which is this: The FBI did a silly thing.
posted by Sys Rq at 6:44 AM on August 13, 2012

Bands can't control who is part of their fan base. Not unless they, I dunno, switch to being a Debbie Gibson tribute act or something.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:46 AM on August 13, 2012 [1 favorite]

thefts, hand-to-hand drug sales and felony assaults

This warrants FBI scrutiny? This is Saturday night in every city in America.
posted by dortmunder at 6:51 AM on August 13, 2012 [4 favorites]

Bands can't control who is part of their fan base.

This is true. Anne Murray recently had her fans put on the no-fly list.
posted by jimmythefish at 6:55 AM on August 13, 2012 [1 favorite]

Can we please make dubstep a gang? Thanks.
posted by deathpanels at 6:56 AM on August 13, 2012 [9 favorites]

ICP fans a hybrid gang? As if. I'm in a real hybrid gang, and although I'm sworn to secrecy on the details, let's just say if you see a Prius of ours rolling up on you late at night you better watch out.
posted by burnmp3s at 6:58 AM on August 13, 2012 [24 favorites]

Umm... standing?

I mean, I can make an argument that the band, either as an entity or constituting its individual members, has been harmed by the FBI's investigation of their fans, but I don't like it very much.

Absent that, the case gets dismissed.
posted by valkyryn at 7:00 AM on August 13, 2012 [2 favorites]

Bear in mind that the ringleaders of this gang, to wit Messrs. J and Dope, are known international smugglers. Their penchant for assaulting concertgoers with showers of Faygo (a soda, the very substance that New York City is about to crack down on, which comes in glass bottles (very useful in gang fights)) resulted in a massive confiscation of the substance by Australian customs on one of their "tours" (a thinly veiled recruitment drive). Clearly, ATF (Alcohol, Tobacco and Faygo) needs to intervene as well.
posted by Etrigan at 7:12 AM on August 13, 2012 [3 favorites]

Couldn't this have waited until next year's Gathering of the Juggalos post? I don't really like to talk about Juggalos more than once per year.
posted by VTX at 7:17 AM on August 13, 2012 [4 favorites]

The current SA thread is titled "Gathering of the Juggalos 2012 already has 10 arrests. It starts tomorrow."

Which I think pretty much says it all.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:23 AM on August 13, 2012 [5 favorites]

10 Most Violent Juggalo Attacks Ever (NSFL text)
posted by desjardins at 7:26 AM on August 13, 2012 [1 favorite]

I was at a Dead Can Dance show last night and there was marijuana being smoked, and twirly-dancers almost hit people a lot! Where's my FBI investigation?
posted by rtha at 7:30 AM on August 13, 2012 [11 favorites]

They are a hybrid gang. Anybody who thinks they're just a band's fanclub has never worked with juvenile probation or at-risk urban populations. Yes, a good chunk of Juggalos are just fans of the group, but that doesn't change the fact that there are Juggalo factions which do indeed function the way street gangs function, violence, theft, and economic coercion on large scales included.
posted by koeselitz at 7:33 AM on August 13, 2012 [1 favorite]

I just had the brightest idea I've ever had: I could, with very llittle work, become King of the Juggalos! I WILL RULE THEIR MASSES!!!

Now all I need to do is find some hypoallergenic clown makeup.
posted by item at 7:39 AM on August 13, 2012 [1 favorite]

I wonder what makes ICP different, is it because they set out to create a sub culture, with various signs and signifiers? Why not fans of 50 Cent or fans of The Mountain Goats, surely some hipster somewhere committed a crime. Some people self identify as "toriphiles", are they largely peaceful?
posted by Ad hominem at 7:48 AM on August 13, 2012

They are a hybrid gang. Anybody who thinks they're just a band's fanclub has never worked with juvenile probation or at-risk urban populations. Yes, a good chunk of Juggalos are just fans of the group, but that doesn't change the fact that there are Juggalo factions which do indeed function the way street gangs function, violence, theft, and economic coercion on large scales included.

Couldn't the same have been said about other youth cultures, such as hip-hop and rock'n'roll (the “martial music of the juvenile delinquent” in the words of Frank Sinatra)?
posted by acb at 7:53 AM on August 13, 2012 [4 favorites]

I'm pretty sure some fans of Frank Sinatra were involved in violence, theft and economic coercion as well.

I think it's got to be that Juggalos are so easily identifiable with their various trappings of juggalodom. Maybe they should be more low key, lazer off those hatchet man tattoos or better yet get get tattoos of Coldplay or something, that would really fuck with the agents responsible for keeping track of these gangs.
posted by Ad hominem at 8:02 AM on August 13, 2012 [3 favorites]

As dumb as I think Juggalo carnival is, and I do LOL, is there widespread evidence of specific crime?

other than the fact rtha saw Dead Can Dance Live and I did not)
posted by Mezentian at 8:03 AM on August 13, 2012 [1 favorite]

acb: “Couldn't the same have been said about other youth cultures, such as hip-hop and rock'n'roll (the 'martial music of the juvenile delinquent' in the words of Frank Sinatra)?&rddquo;

Maybe in 1952 or something – when "rockers" could have been pointed to as a small, specific subculture with its own markers and shared identity. But certainly not since then, and certainly not "hip-hop" as a whole, which is wildly diverse.

Please understand that I'm no fan of the FBI, and I have no idea why they bother making such distinctions themselves. And I'm not saying "all Juggalos are gang members!" or "everybody who listens to ICP is in a gang!" Far from it. What I'm saying is that, when I worked in juvenile probation, it was absolutely necessary to track markers and identities of the Juggalo subculture, because there are gangs that identify themselves as Juggalo gangs.

I'm not sure you could point to gangs that identify themselves as "a hip hop gang" or "a rock and roll gang."
posted by koeselitz at 8:03 AM on August 13, 2012 [2 favorites]

You guys do realize that the hippies are Communist sympathizers bent on the destruction of the American way of life, right?
posted by njloof at 8:08 AM on August 13, 2012 [6 favorites]

Does this have anything to do with the pictures of people openly peddling drugs at their events?
Just checking.


How much in resources is Uncle Scam going to spend on this?

I didn't realize people said thinks like that outside of Fox Nation. Can I get the latest Obama pun please?
posted by Theta States at 8:13 AM on August 13, 2012 [1 favorite]

EDIT: that came out way to harsh, I was going for sarcasm... Apologies.
posted by Theta States at 8:19 AM on August 13, 2012

I'm pretty sure some fans of Frank Sinatra were involved in violence, theft and economic coercion as well.

Perhaps, but did they festoon themselves with Sinatra iconography, identify primarily as Sinatra fans, and associate heavily if not exclusively with other Sinatra fans in their criminal activities?
posted by kafziel at 8:39 AM on August 13, 2012 [2 favorites]

I'm in a real hybrid gang, and although I'm sworn to secrecy on the details, let's just say if you see a Prius of ours rolling up on you late at night you better watch out.

Well, they are good for sneakin' up on motherfuckas.
posted by zsazsa at 8:42 AM on August 13, 2012 [3 favorites]

Perhaps, but did they festoon themselves with Sinatra iconography, identify primarily as Sinatra fans, and associate heavily if not exclusively with other Sinatra fans in their criminal activities?

I feel pretty comfortable saying that most of the members of the Five Families were Sinatra fans.
posted by elizardbits at 8:44 AM on August 13, 2012 [5 favorites]

Law enforcement is supposed to locate and bust folks who've committed specific crimes. All of the "threat"-mitigating and it's attendant surveillance, infiltration, and abuse is overreaching and is itself a threat to public safety. The agency in question, in particular, has a long history of abusing its power, being used as a tool for chilling certain types of speech, and targeting folks for reasons unrelated to specific crimes.

I didn't have trouble finding it ridiculous that Food Not Bombs had been placed on a terrorist "watch" list by the FBI in 2005. Earlier this year, though, I was surprised to find myself sympathizing with Kim Dotcom (who strikes me as being sort of a childish reptile), because of his apparently-illegal-search-and-seizure situation. Now, regardless of the plausibility of their lawsuit, and regardless of the fact that some Juggalos may have committed specific crimes, I again find myself in the weird position of sympathizing with people that I find kind of ridiculous.

I guess it's time for an FOIA request for all FBI documents responsive to the question of fucking magnetism.

it was absolutely necessary to track markers and identities of the Juggalo subculture, because there are gangs that identify themselves as Juggalo gangs

That's putting the crime-prevention cart before the civil liberties horse, though. Are you seriously suggesting that association with a large, ill-defined* group of people, some of whom have done nefarious things, by itself justifies surveillance? Does someone's possession of CrimethInc literature, or animal-rights literature, justify tracking that person's subcultural affiliations? Is it okay to track markers and identities of the "Occupy subculture"? The "[NRM of your choice] subculture"? The Muslim subculture?

If not, what distinguishes Juggalos from other subcultures, some of whose members have committed crimes?

*In the very strong sense that, AFAIK, there is no objective standard of Juggalohood beyond self-identification.
posted by kengraham at 8:47 AM on August 13, 2012 [4 favorites]

That is pretty interesting that they identify as Juggalo gangs. You can find a significant amount of people with wu-tang clan tattoos and no doubt some of them are in gangs. I don't know if there is a term for a wu-tang clan fan, I don't think Killa Beez extends out that far past "wu-tang affiliates".


Perhaps, but did they festoon themselves with Sinatra iconography, identify primarily as Sinatra fans, and associate heavily if not exclusively with other Sinatra fans in their criminal activities?

Do you mean did they wear Trillbys? Were all their friends also Sinatra fans? Was there a picture of sinatra up next to the picture of the pope on the wall ? Probably.
posted by Ad hominem at 8:47 AM on August 13, 2012 [2 favorites]

kengraham: “That's putting the crime-prevention cart before the civil liberties horse, though. Are you seriously suggesting that association with a large, ill-defined* group of people, some of whom have done nefarious things, by itself justifies surveillance? Does someone's possession of CrimethInc literature, or animal-rights literature, justify tracking that person's subcultural affiliations? Is it okay to track markers and identities of the ‘Occupy subculture’? The "[NRM of your choice] subculture"? The Muslim subculture?”

Yeah, you'll notice I wasn't in crime prevention or law enforcement at all, and in fact stated clearly that agencies who are shouldn't be doing this tracking. When you're trying to help kids get off of probation, it's essential to stay informed about what they're doing and what the impact will be. That doesn't mean surveillance. That means being ready to have a little talk when they show up to their session with a hatchet-man t-shirt and make sure everything's all right.

As I thought I made clear above, I was responding to the snark from people who apparently would like to think there's no gang identification with Juggalo nation whatsoever – this is clearly not true.
posted by koeselitz at 8:52 AM on August 13, 2012 [1 favorite]

And I'll say again, for a second time, that I am not a fan of the FBI and believe their surveillance policies to be counter to the Constitution and to the spirit of the laws in the United States. If it needs to be said again.
posted by koeselitz at 8:53 AM on August 13, 2012 [1 favorite]

does this imply Juggalo lawyers?
posted by mwhybark at 8:58 AM on August 13, 2012 [2 favorites]

You can find a significant amount of people with wu-tang clan tattoos and no doubt some of them are in gangs. I don't know if there is a term for a wu-tang clan fan, I don't think Killa Beez extends out that far past "wu-tang affiliates".

Wu-tang Clan ain't nothin' to fuck with.
posted by Coda at 8:58 AM on August 13, 2012 [1 favorite]

it's essential to stay informed about what they're doing and what the impact will be. That doesn't mean surveillance. That means being ready to have a little talk when they show up to their session with a hatchet-man t-shirt and make sure everything's all right.

What gets said in such a little talk?
posted by kengraham at 9:00 AM on August 13, 2012

"Who are you hanging out with? What do you guys do? Are you sure this is going to help you meet your goals? If so, great. If not, what can we do to help you get there?"

But by all means, assume the most nefarious thing you can.
posted by koeselitz at 9:02 AM on August 13, 2012 [1 favorite]

I think the procedure is to get the kid to trade the hatchet man shirt for a dancing rainbow bear tie die with a map to the local Rainbow Gathering.
posted by mwhybark at 9:02 AM on August 13, 2012 [2 favorites]

dye, rather
posted by mwhybark at 9:03 AM on August 13, 2012

I absolutely agree that the standard for "things some who works with at-risk youth needs to know about" includes a lot of things that don't warrant FBI investigation.

But, when I hear:

That doesn't mean surveillance. That means being ready to have a little talk when they show up to their session with a hatchet-man t-shirt

That's inherently a "little talk" with a threat of prison behind it. So, I kind of wonder: where do you draw a line there? Not you, the smart caring guy. But the the worst probation officer. Does that probation officer get to always examine and approve the kid's itunes playlists or Pandora stations, for example?
posted by tyllwin at 9:07 AM on August 13, 2012 [2 favorites]

"Who are you hanging out with? What do you guys do? Are you sure this is going to help you meet your goals? If so, great. If not, what can we do to help you get there?"

I'm sorry. I (ignorantly) assumed that your reference to "when I worked in juvenile probation" meant that you had been an LEO, in which case the first two questions would be inappropriate. What you described is very different from what I assumed was meant by "track[ing] markers and identities of the Juggalo subculture".
posted by kengraham at 9:11 AM on August 13, 2012

I see. Sorry for the misunderstanding – we were on the counseling and support side, which sometimes even meant policing the LEOs or reporting mistakes they'd made. I also know that lots of cities don't have those functions, even though they ought to.
posted by koeselitz at 9:14 AM on August 13, 2012

Yeah, sorry here too. If you're not the guy who's going to violate the kid, I think that it's much more appropriate.
posted by tyllwin at 9:24 AM on August 13, 2012

As dumb as I think Juggalo carnival is, and I do LOL, is there widespread evidence of specific crime?

Depending on where the Gathering is held at the very least you could go for drug possession, drug sales, prostitution, contributing to a delinquency of a minor.

Secondary crimes you could reasonably expect include child pornography, child prostitution, sexual penetration of a minor.

This isn't exactly "NARCS SHOULD GET THE HELL OUT OF WOODSTOCK MAN!".
posted by Talez at 9:26 AM on August 13, 2012

I absolutely agree that the standard for "things some who works with at-risk youth needs to know about" includes a lot of things that don't warrant FBI investigation.

Supplying drugs from across state lines?
posted by Talez at 9:27 AM on August 13, 2012

Well, to be fair, those exact same crimes could apply to Woodstock equally well, yes?
posted by tyllwin at 9:28 AM on August 13, 2012 [3 favorites]

Frank Sinatra? Why did you have to drag Sinatra into this?
posted by Splunge at 9:37 AM on August 13, 2012

Well, to be fair, those exact same crimes could apply to Woodstock equally well, yes?

Yes and no. There probably wasn't much sales or prostitution with all the sharing and "free love" going on. Keep in mind distribution of LSD wasn't federally prohibited until 1970 and before that it was banned only in some places through a patchwork of prohibition laws and as a result availability was quite high.
posted by Talez at 9:39 AM on August 13, 2012

If you're involved in any criminal enterprise, you need associates you can trust. When people are risking jail or death, trust is a very big deal. Juggalos are a very tight subculture, full of people who regard each other as "family". So it makes sense that if I'm a juggalo and I'm selling meth, I'm gonna look for other Juggalos to help me out. It doesn't have to be, like, registered as a gang with the Library of Congress; it's just a natural sort of association.
posted by ThatFuzzyBastard at 9:39 AM on August 13, 2012 [3 favorites]

As dumb as I think Juggalo carnival is, and I do LOL, is there widespread evidence of specific crime?

Do crimes against art count?
posted by Egg Shen at 9:48 AM on August 13, 2012 [2 favorites]

Splunge:
"Frank Sinatra? Why did you have to drag Sinatra into this?"

Hey, Sinatra saved my life once! A couple of mob goons were beating the crap out of me, and probably would have killed me, but then Frank showed up and said, "All right, that's enough, boys."
posted by charred husk at 9:49 AM on August 13, 2012 [5 favorites]

distribution of LSD wasn't federally prohibited until 1970

Weed was illegal, though, right?

Look, less sarcastically, I'm not arguing that a Juggalo "gathering" is a wholesome, law-abiding atmosphere. But think you're taking a set of behaviors that are going to occur at many (non-religious) week-long festivals aimed at people under 30, putting the harshest possible criminal labels on them, and then acting as if they're unique to Juggalos. But with the exception of the prostitution, I expect most of those things happen at Band Camp.

The label "juggalo" is a self-applied identity used mainly by poor, young, uneducated, males. Of course there will be an overlap with criminal activity.
posted by tyllwin at 9:49 AM on August 13, 2012 [4 favorites]

it's just a natural sort of association.

That is what I have been wondering all along. What makes Juggalos more "family" than fans of wu-tang clan, and what makes them more likely to sell meth than toriphiles.

Snoop is/was associated with the crips, but the crips were an established group before he came along, were Juggalos perhaps a quasi-established group before ICP ever came along? Do ICP fans slowly get drawn into a web of family style meth dealing, no matter where they came from? Are people seeking out some sort of connection to a group drawn to ICP and Juggalos?
posted by Ad hominem at 9:56 AM on August 13, 2012 [1 favorite]

Depending on where the Gathering is held at the very least you could go for drug possession, drug sales, prostitution, contributing to a delinquency of a minor.

Sounds like Wall Street. Seriously.
posted by the young rope-rider at 10:04 AM on August 13, 2012 [2 favorites]

Umm... standing?

I mean, I can make an argument that the band, either as an entity or constituting its individual members, has been harmed by the FBI's investigation of their fans, but I don't like it very much.

Absent that, the case gets dismissed.

Actually, no. They'll make it a First Amendment case. An entity can get standing to protect the rights of others.

From the Clerk's summary of Sec'y of Maryland v. Munson, 467 U.S. 947 (1984),

Where the claim is that the statute is overly broad in violation of the First Amendment, the Court has allowed a party to assert the rights of another without regard to the ability of the other to assert his own claim. The activity sought to be protected is at the heart of the business relationship between respondent and its customers, and respondent's interests in challenging the statute are completely consistent with the First Amendment interests of the charities it represents.

Note also they only have to show threatened injury in the case of an overbroad assertion of government power.

Here, the ICP has an interest in protecting the rights of its fans to look like them, act like them, freely assemble and listen to their shitty music. If the FBI placed heightened law enforcement scrutiny on them resulting in more traffic stops, it would limit the Juggalo's First Amendment rights.

I would imagine the depos would be telling: "Mr. FBI SSA, why did you really put the Juggalos on the list?"

FBI SSA: "Have you listened to Insane Clown Posse?"
posted by Ironmouth at 10:12 AM on August 13, 2012 [3 favorites]

https://twitter.com/lisarinna/status/235068973706801154
posted by deern the headlice at 10:45 AM on August 13, 2012

Here, the ICP has an interest in protecting the rights of its fans to look like them, act like them, freely assemble and listen to their shitty music.

Right. I understand what the argument is, but I'm not convinced it works. Two reasons.

First, I'm not convinced that the "business relationship between [ICP] and [their fans]" is being burdened here. Classifying the Juggalos as a gang doesn't burden anyone's their rights. As far as I can tell, the FBI hasn't exactly asserted any of its power here. All they've done amounts to saying "We think those guys are trouble." Period. What's the burden? What's the threat of government action? This is as much a "case or controversy" issue as it is a "real party in interest" issue. Heck, there are groups out there that would pay money for that kind of endorsement. So what's the claim then, defamation? ICP definitely isn't going to have standing to pursue that.

Second, I think the Munson case is distinguishable. No one has suggested that ICP isn't allowed to make shitty music, that anyone isn't allowed to listen to ICP's shitty music, or that people aren't allowed to congregate in large numbers to do so. As far as I can tell, the only thing that's happened here is that the FBI has suggested that when large numbers of Juggalos get together that bad things can happen. In Munson, there was a direct burden on charitable fundraising activity that was unique to said activity. Here, the FBI has said that people shouldn't be doing things which were already criminal. So again, what's the burden?
posted by valkyryn at 10:52 AM on August 13, 2012 [1 favorite]

Could we make them all sign loyalty oaths?
posted by flabdablet at 11:06 AM on August 13, 2012

Second, I think the Munson case is distinguishable. No one has suggested that ICP isn't allowed to make shitty music, that anyone isn't allowed to listen to ICP's shitty music, or that people aren't allowed to congregate in large numbers to do so. As far as I can tell, the only thing that's happened here is that the FBI has suggested that when large numbers of Juggalos get together that bad things can happen.

I think heightened scrutiny by law enforcement might make some Juggalos stay away or quit being Juggalos or cause their moms to not let them go, or hang out with their Juggalo friends. It may also cause the parents not to allow them to buy their records or make women not want to date them because they are in a gang. These would reduce record sales and marketing.
posted by Ironmouth at 11:17 AM on August 13, 2012 [4 favorites]

Right, except that no one's actually suggested that the Juggalos are, in fact, currently subject to increased scrutiny by the FBI. All this nonsense is about the fact that the Juggalos appeared in a 2011 report by the FBI. This isn't a statement of the FBI's enforcement priorities or any kind of commitment to do anything in particular. It basically just reports that four states have classified the Juggalos as a gang. That's it. Read the report. There's about one page on the Juggalos in there, and if anything, it sounds like the FBI is kind of skeptical about the whole thing.

What's the cause of action here? What's the "case or controversy"? That the FBI is reporting what four state law enforcement agencies have done? That hardly seems to be actionable.
posted by valkyryn at 12:47 PM on August 13, 2012 [2 favorites]

This just reminds me of the rumors that the Society for Creative Anachronism was once considered by the CIA to be the world's largest standing private army.

We have black walnut trees in our backyard, which are a nuisance to gardeners because of their effect on the soil. Whenever my wife mentions that a particular plant is "juglone-tolerant" the first thing I think is that they are okay with Insane Clown Posse fans.
posted by Foosnark at 1:10 PM on August 13, 2012 [2 favorites]

This VICE article (nsfw) has some perspective on the effects of the listing. If national retailers are dropping your clothing line because it's now "gang apparel" and your record company's logo is now a "gang symbol" then yeah, I say that's getting into First Amendment territory, increased FBI scrutiny or not.
posted by 7segment at 1:10 PM on August 13, 2012 [3 favorites]

I would think Juggalos should feel honored to get such recognition.
posted by Ardiril at 1:53 PM on August 13, 2012

Unlike NWA's apparent embrace of the monniker - "This is a gang, and I'm in it..."
posted by Chuffy at 1:54 PM on August 13, 2012

I don't know why the FBI doesn't just classify American citizens as a hybrid-gang; I mean there are subsets of American citizens that engage in gang activity, and presumably this would let the broaden the RICO statute applications as far as they want.
posted by BrotherCaine at 2:28 PM on August 13, 2012 [4 favorites]

were Juggalos perhaps a quasi-established group before ICP ever came along?

Nope, in fact ICP didn't even always have the clown gimmick. They were originally named "Inner City Posse".

I think the FBI is in the wrong here, but I'm sorry, it's impossible for me to take anything involving ICP or Juggalos seriously. They've been a walking joke for like 20 years.
posted by DecemberBoy at 2:29 PM on August 13, 2012

Why not ... fans of The Mountain Goats?

We are known as Satan's Fingers (or maybe The Hospital Bums) and we are legion. We have enough music critics on our side to make your life hell. Justin Beiber? Just a test run to show what we are capable of. Do not trifle with us.
posted by 1f2frfbf at 2:46 PM on August 13, 2012 [2 favorites]

I think the FBI is in the wrong here, but I'm sorry, it's impossible for me to take anything involving ICP or Juggalos seriously. They've been a walking joke for like 20 years.

You don't have to take them seriously to think that it's not appropriate for the FBI to treat their fans as potential criminals on the basis of what walking-joke band they happen to enjoy listening to.
posted by Tomorrowful at 3:24 PM on August 13, 2012 [3 favorites]

Dear FBI:

They're like no one you've ever met before
They'll eat Monopoly
And shit Connect-4!
posted by Renoroc at 4:52 PM on August 13, 2012 [1 favorite]

Holy hell I am going to loooove the crossover into Homestuck fandom chatter this will have. Hooray for free speech AND popcorn-munching opportunities!
posted by nicebookrack at 5:16 PM on August 13, 2012

I always sneered at these kids as low-iq hayseeds with shit taste, but now that they're being profiled?

Brofiled.
posted by clarknova at 6:36 PM on August 13, 2012

this and this and also this, also as well

The Jugalos are not the The Bugaloos
posted by vozworth at 6:42 PM on August 13, 2012

JUGGABROS.
posted by clarknova at 7:02 PM on August 13, 2012

Bums

Bombs, dude. The Hospital Bombs. So much more badass.
posted by kenko at 8:14 PM on August 13, 2012

Bums? I read it as "burns".

Time for better glasses.
posted by flabdablet at 8:54 PM on August 13, 2012

Bombs, dude. The Hospital Bombs. So much more badass.

Actually according to the Mountain Goat's own website it's "Hospital Bombers." cite.

Etiher way, I never knew. And now I do.
posted by 1f2frfbf at 6:16 AM on August 14, 2012

It's funny that civil liberties are potentially being violated and poor people are being profiled because they like a band we don't.
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 10:56 AM on August 14, 2012 [1 favorite]

This past weekend I was in Little Egypt (the area of Southern Illinois where Cave-in-Rock, the location of the Gathering of the Juggalos, is found). Little Egypt happens to be where my dad's from—he grew up just outside Ridgway, a small town a few miles away from the Ohio River, which is best known right now for having had its beautiful church smashed to bits by a tornado earlier this year.

We were hosting a family picnic over the weekend (not everyone came, only 92 people), and made several trips to Harrisburg so we could patronize the Kroger and Walmart. Outside the Walmart there was a large banner staked into the ground alongside the road that said "WE HAVE FAYGO."

My dad made a little quizzical sound. "Do you know what Faygo is?" I asked him. He didn't. I wanted to explain the whole thing, how right that very moment there were thousands of people in Cave-in-Rock, listening to surprisingly good rap and really, really terrible not-rap by guys who paint themselves like clowns; how it's a subculture that's both fascinating and repulsive; how weird it is that they've settled on Cave-in-Rock, of all places, to have their Gathering. All I managed was that, like the Grateful Dead have Deadheads, there's this group called ICP that have Juggalos. And they're having a festival at Cave-in-Rock. And they really, really like this soda called Faygo.

That's all true, and an explanation of a sort. But I feel like I really didn't explain anything at all.
posted by ocherdraco at 3:39 PM on August 14, 2012 [4 favorites]

But Uther, these are poor *white* people. We can point and laugh at them all the live-long day and Metafilter won't object.
posted by ThatFuzzyBastard at 5:31 PM on August 14, 2012 [1 favorite]