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One Direction Tumblerites vs the world
August 23, 2012 10:16 PM   Subscribe

[Some links may contain images and language NSFW] An article on The Daily Dot (previously) about tinhatting, or the belief amongst certain fans that two celebrities are meant to be together but are being kept apart by nefarious forces, has sparked vitriol from the fans of the One Direction pairing known as Larry Stylinson.

Larry Stylinson is the pairing name of the band members Harry Styles and Louis Tomlinson. The accepted canon amongst Larry tinhats is that the two are being kept by Modest, One Direction's managing company, from revealing to the world that they're in love, going as far as to give Louis Tomlinson a fake girlfriend. A glance at the Larry Stylinson tag on Tumblr shows fans discussing when/how their relationship will be announced, how fake the relationship is between Louis Tomlinson and girlfriend Eleanor Calder (also known as Elounor), and how much the Larry and Elounor fans hate each other.

Rage against the Daily Dot article ignited across Tumblr and in the article's comments, including accusations that the author of the article was paid off by Modest Management and that those who doubted Larry will be sorry when the couple finally comes out of the closet.

A second article, this time on online harassment in the One Direction fandom, caused another fury when Larry fans accused the Daily Dot of being biased and favouring Elounor. And, of course, that the author has been paid off to write lies.

Unfortunately, individual comments on the articles can't be linked, so you'll want to read them yourself. Yes, all of them.

Previously well known tinhat communities include the Lord of the Rings Domlijah and the more recent Supernatural J2.
posted by toerinishuman (92 comments total) 17 users marked this as a favorite

 
Huh?!?!
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:25 PM on August 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


There is no level of weird that humans are not capable of achieving.
posted by zjacreman at 10:30 PM on August 23, 2012 [9 favorites]


Also, obligatory xkcd.
posted by zjacreman at 10:32 PM on August 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


A better link for J2, this time with examples, can be found here.
posted by toerinishuman at 10:34 PM on August 23, 2012


Just because it exists on the Web does not make it a good post for MetaFilter.

Now, shipping Gotye and PSY... that would be interesting...
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:37 PM on August 23, 2012 [3 favorites]


It's so much simpler if you restrict yourself to fictional characters. MORDECAI x RIGBY 4 LYFE BABY!
posted by Lazlo at 11:00 PM on August 23, 2012 [2 favorites]


meta
posted by telstar at 11:14 PM on August 23, 2012 [1 favorite]


The discrepancy has led to ship wars that revolve around proving your own ship, or disproving the existence of the enemy ship.

Somewhat out of context here, but who wants to play Ontological Battleship?
posted by Dr Dracator at 11:14 PM on August 23, 2012 [20 favorites]


Given the origins of tinhatting, (namely, a supposed gay relationship between Elijah Wood and Dominic Mognahan) this is probably as good a place as any to post this hilarious Easter Egg from the Lord of the Rings DVD set.
posted by ShutterBun at 11:45 PM on August 23, 2012 [10 favorites]


See, I warned people not to do real-person slashfic, that it can only lead to delusions. Or in this case, fans that are as creepy as they are weird.
posted by happyroach at 12:02 AM on August 24, 2012


I never thought I'd see the day when One Direction was the topic of a MeFi post, much less an interesting one.

I did expect to see the day when slash fans found new levels of weird.
I just hoped, day by day, it would not be today.

I'm just going to cry in the corner for a while.
posted by Mezentian at 12:24 AM on August 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


Yeah, wow, I've never even heard of One Direction before, and this post seemed like another language to me initially, but I got a'clickin the links and wound up fascinated by all of this.

Somehow I found my way to this tumblr post and started thinking ..."Hmmm. I think they might be on to something!"

OK I feel dirty and have to re-take my bath now.
posted by mannequito at 12:31 AM on August 24, 2012 [5 favorites]


At least no one's ever tried to claim that Prince Harry is gay
posted by DanCall at 12:45 AM on August 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Huh?!?!

According to the Google:
1. "One Direction" is a boy band.
2. "One Dot" is a gossip site mainly concerned with online communities.
3. "Larry Stylinson" fans are certain One Direction fans who like to think that two of the five boys in One Direction (Harry Styles + Louis Tomlinson = "Larry Stylinson") are secretly a gay couple who cannot come out because management won't let them.
4. One Dot scoffs at this assertion.
5. The Larry Stylinson fans think One Dot is being paid to keep it quiet.
6. Well, there you go. I gave up before deciphering the stuff that follows "A second article"
posted by pracowity at 12:53 AM on August 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


I'm 36 and what is this?
posted by Jofus at 1:52 AM on August 24, 2012 [24 favorites]


I would like to believe that almost all of this tinhatting is, for its authors, just a long, subtle, straight-faced ARG of sorts.
posted by Sticherbeast at 1:57 AM on August 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


So being sure your favorite cute male celebrities are gay for each other based on interview snippets and paparazzi photos, once the pastime of lonely/bored homosexuals, is now something the rest of the world is interested in?

I guess this is what equality looks like.

I'm not sure if I should cheer or apologize.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:12 AM on August 24, 2012 [6 favorites]


I'm not sure if I should cheer or apologize.

I like the concept of cheerpologizing.
posted by Sticherbeast at 2:19 AM on August 24, 2012 [35 favorites]


I only ever saw this couple popping up in my tumblr feed once in a while, so I didn't even know until now that they weren't officially a gay couple... (seems I am following the wrong tumblr blogs)
posted by ts;dr at 2:31 AM on August 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


This is why I like tumblr. To the people involved, these things are terribly important; and mostly they make no sense. It's the internet writ small.
posted by solarion at 2:46 AM on August 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


(seems I am following the wrong tumblr blogs)

I never see One Direction on my dash at all, so I must be following the right ones... All 556 of them...
posted by vaghjar at 2:47 AM on August 24, 2012


I'd like to think that as a teen or pre-teen, I would never have behaved like this had the Internet been a thing back then. Thankfully, I'll never know for sure.

Anyone know where I can find some NKOTB slash fics?
posted by Defying Gravity at 3:27 AM on August 24, 2012


I need a mefi savior to block out one direction posts here too, just fucking great.
posted by elizardbits at 4:00 AM on August 24, 2012


I like the concept of cheerpologizing.

Give me an s! S!
Give me an o! O!
posted by Karmeliet at 4:03 AM on August 24, 2012


I'd like to think that as a teen or pre-teen, I would never have behaved like this had the Internet been a thing back then.

I'm sort of glad there was no internet (or electricity, basically) when I was a wee teen, because I'm sure I'd have been caught up in equally silly gossip of one sort or another. That's what being a teenager is all about. "Is Ogg love Gog? We no can believe it."
posted by pracowity at 4:31 AM on August 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


the rest of the world is interested in

If your definition of "the rest of the world" is 13 year old boy band fans, then yes.
posted by Diablevert at 4:44 AM on August 24, 2012


I love absolutely everything about this. I first learned about 1D when I went to buy a mattress at the mall and the place was overrun with tween girls at 8pm on a weeknight. Turns out they were doing an autograph signing.

And of course my wife's favorite song right now is "What Makes You Beautiful," so one morning I sang her a sappy, ballad-tempo version, which I have made several aborted attempts to record, because MeFiMu is sadly bereft of boy band covers.

In conclusion, this post just made me a huge Larry shipper because, obviously.
posted by uncleozzy at 4:52 AM on August 24, 2012 [6 favorites]


To answer your query DefyingGravity, the answer is Livejournal. Imho, eventually all fanfic roads lead to Livejournal or http://archiveofourown.org/.
posted by Faintdreams at 4:56 AM on August 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


I am starting to feel this thread is unclean.

Where all the Beliebers at?
posted by Mezentian at 4:57 AM on August 24, 2012


After Ontological Battleship I wanna play Epistemological Twister!

Or Phenomenological Monopoly.
posted by wilberforce at 5:04 AM on August 24, 2012 [8 favorites]


Ugh, tinhats. I'm fine with RPS when people realize it's for fun and fantasy. But when you get into serious misogyny like J2 tinhats it becomes creepy and aggravating.
posted by kmz at 5:04 AM on August 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


I'm sort of glad there was no internet (or electricity, basically) when I was a wee teen, because I'm sure I'd have been caught up in equally silly gossip of one sort or another. That's what being a teenager is all about.

Oh, I'm sure I would have been interested in the gossip; I just hope I wouldn't have been obsessed enough with any one celebrity/band to spend hours online attacking fans with opposing viewpoints, or to make death threats against the celebrity's partner or anyone who made disparaging remarks about the celebrity.

Then again, as much as watching this sort of frenzied pre-teen/teen girl pack behaviour unfold on Twitter and Tumblr disturbs me, I do realise that the vast majority of it is innocuous (well, at least in the sense that no one's actually going to kill anybody). Still, I am also very glad that the Internet wasn't really around until I was almost out of high school.
posted by Defying Gravity at 5:05 AM on August 24, 2012


So being sure your favorite cute male celebrities are gay for each other based on interview snippets and paparazzi photos, once the pastime of lonely/bored homosexuals, is now something the rest of the world is interested in?

Isn't there a lonely/bored homosexual deep inside all of us?
posted by gjc at 5:10 AM on August 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


I just read this., and it sounds crazy. So here's where it started, youngsters: Kirk/Spock maybe.
posted by Stoatfarm at 5:12 AM on August 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Is Tumblr Livejournal now?
posted by alby at 5:28 AM on August 24, 2012


I learn something new every day.

Unfortunately.
posted by tommasz at 5:31 AM on August 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


I never thought I'd see the day when One Direction was the topic of a MeFi post, much less an interesting one.

I thought we already had one, about how girls were being possibly too sexual in how they expressed their appreciation of the band. This possibly involved a poster that read "point your erection in my direction"?

Having found it, it was just a generic thread about the sexuality of teen girls that happened to mention One Direction, which is how I found out who they were and figured out that they sang that awful "You Don't Your Beautiful" song which is a such perfect combination of ear wormy and horrible and kind of sexist which means that I can't listen to it, but I also can't get it out of my head for days if I hear even a little bit of it.

In conclusion, this generation's boy bands aren't half as good as 'N Sync.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:39 AM on August 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


alby: Sort of. There's an interesting conversation to be had about how the way a medium shapes the discussion that takes place within that medium; the nature of fannish content production has shifted dramatically in the process of the migration from LJ to tumblr.
posted by Sokka shot first at 6:03 AM on August 24, 2012


Life imitates webcomics. Part 2. The comics go on and some of them (although not those) are NSFW.
posted by Hactar at 6:13 AM on August 24, 2012


There's a market for this--tween girls LOVE boys that kiss each other. It's more about conceiving of these guys as sexual beings than actually thinking they have a shot at dating them. No idea why the people behind these groups don't work that angle directly.
posted by almostmanda at 6:15 AM on August 24, 2012


alby: Sort of. There's an interesting conversation to be had about how the way a medium shapes the discussion that takes place within that medium; the nature of fannish content production has shifted dramatically in the process of the migration from LJ to tumblr.

I would be interested to hear more thoughts on this. I have thoughts of my own!
posted by Frowner at 6:18 AM on August 24, 2012


I think it's utterly refreshing that we've turned such a corner that teenaged girls really really hope that the cutest members of their favorite boy bands are gay.
posted by xingcat at 6:41 AM on August 24, 2012 [5 favorites]


Okay, that tumblr that mannequito linked to is enough to convince me that Larry's love is real.
posted by sevenyearlurk at 6:48 AM on August 24, 2012


No idea why the people behind these groups don't work that angle directly.

Because you can't manufacture chemistry and acting out a real crush in public "solely" for the fans is a good way to destroy anything real about it? (AND/OR to intensify it to dangerous levels, these are people who seek the approval of crowds after all.) And then what happens if you fight but the fans still expect you to act lovey-dovey?

But to answer your question, in Asia, they already do this.
posted by subdee at 6:49 AM on August 24, 2012


Okay, that tumblr that mannequito linked to is enough to convince me that Larry's love is real.

Fans can take any two celebrities who work together, and find a moment where it looks like they're doin' it, or pining on doin' it. Then make a gif of it.
posted by muddgirl at 7:01 AM on August 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


I thought we did this already...Domlijah4ever.
posted by little_c at 7:09 AM on August 24, 2012


Things have certainly come a long way since Weston and Virgil were keeping an eye on things. It's so complicated now...
posted by Appropriate Username at 7:19 AM on August 24, 2012


I wish I'd commented here earlier. This graph is remarkable:

But the One Direction fandom is primarily composed of girls and young women, many of whom are experiencing all the drama of fandom for the first time. Because Tumblr and Twitter both make it possible to interact with everyone in the fandom who uses general tags, like “one direction” or “larry stylinson,” all of that fannish energy can translate into overwhelming intensity. Several 1D fans writing The Dot yesterday positively compared the experience to a religious fervor. But like any deeply held belief system, challenges to the devotion fans feel can create tensions and outrage.

Do yourself a favor and read the first link above as well as, on the same site, the follow-up:

But none of this compares to the vastly overwhelming mentality within the One Direction fandom that their preferred ship of choice must be real. This is a complete generational shift in terms of RPF fandom, which has long relied on the disclaimer, used as a protection from accusations of slander, that RPF is not real. In 1D fandom, there is no room for people who ship fictional versions of the “characters” of the band members.

and

Anatsuno told The Dot that she understood why the trend across fandoms existed: “Creativity and obsessive detailed analysis are both involved in fannishness. When they get applied to real people, the stories that result are an understandable narrative when you add wishful thinking to the mix. It's not so hard to believe that artists might be closeted. So many are. Humans are good at teasing out meaning from the tiniest of things and projecting patterns where there are none. So it all contributes to a set of narratives that resonate across many different fandoms where similar situations exist.”

And my own relationship fantasy: if Michel Foucault and Judith Butler could team up they would write the shit out of this phenomenon.
posted by noway at 7:25 AM on August 24, 2012


My daughter is all about One Direction, so I listen to their music a lot. Here's the thing about them: They're a really good, fun pop band, and I think most of the guys in it have real charm and stage presence. My gut tells me that if somebody would give them a sketch comedy show, they could be a 21st-century version of The Monkees. (Which, if you ask me, the world could use right now.)
posted by jbickers at 7:27 AM on August 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


I love absolutely everything about this. I first learned about 1D when I went to buy a mattress at the mall and the place was overrun with tween girls at 8pm on a weeknight. Turns out they were doing an autograph signing.

I love the idea of tween girls turn out in force at the mall to get autographed mattresses. On second thought no that's creepy
posted by ook at 7:47 AM on August 24, 2012


Also when did fanfic move from LJ to tumblr? Did I miss a memo? Is dreamwidth already old school passé?
posted by ook at 7:48 AM on August 24, 2012


I think it's utterly refreshing that we've turned such a corner that teenaged girls really really hope that the cutest members of their favorite boy bands are gay.

How much of this is gay guys hoping that the cutest members of their favorite boy bands are gay?
posted by pracowity at 7:50 AM on August 24, 2012


Compared to how much of it is wildly thrilled yet scarily savage (in defense of their preferred pairing) preteen and teenage girls? Not a very significant amount, I think.
posted by elizardbits at 8:34 AM on August 24, 2012


I'm fifty years old and have never heard of One Direction; but this dovetails nicely with my ongoing investigation into the forbidden love of Hudi Mirrdench.
posted by steambadger at 9:03 AM on August 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


There's a market for this--tween girls LOVE boys that kiss each other. It's more about conceiving of these guys as sexual beings than actually thinking they have a shot at dating them. No idea why the people behind these groups don't work that angle directly.
posted by almostmanda


That's a very deep perception, almostmanda, but I'm inclined to think the appeal is more that these boys are acting out the forbidden passion tween girls have for each other, and I have no doubt you're absolutely right that it's ripe for exploitation, though they'll have to be careful never to let what's really going on show through too clearly.
posted by jamjam at 9:06 AM on August 24, 2012


but I'm inclined to think the appeal is more that these boys are acting out the forbidden passion tween girls have for each other

That's a weird reading to me --- I mean, are lesbian scenes in porn aimed at straight dudes really about the love straight guys have for each other?

The whole fandom scene is about continuing an existing story beyond what its creators have given you, wanting to hang on to a certain feeling, breathe a certain atmosphere. One kind of fun you can have with that is to imagine oneself into that world -- Mary Sue. (Or in this case, as a girlfriend on one of the 1D boys.) But in a way Mary Sue break the hermetic seal on that precious atmosphere --- precisely because she wan't part of the original creation, she's an outsider, a little false, a little off. But imagining an affair between the members doesn't break that seal. The intensity, the desire is purer because it is contained within the fantasy world, suggests indeed that the bonds between the characters are even deeper than the standard narrative portays them to be. That was the original slash, right, kirk/Spock?

Or I may be full of shit.
posted by Diablevert at 10:04 AM on August 24, 2012 [5 favorites]


but I'm inclined to think the appeal is more that these boys are acting out the forbidden passion tween girls have for each other

That's a weird reading to me --- I mean, are lesbian scenes in porn aimed at straight dudes really about the love straight guys have for each other?

Interesting that strikes you as so unlikely-- I did say it was forbidden.
posted by jamjam at 10:19 AM on August 24, 2012


Well, call me a thick-headed literalist, but when a guy who is aroused by/desiring of women is turned on by watching two chicks make out, that just seems like a natural extension of his existing tendency --- one chick sexy, two chicks twice as sexy. That teen girls should find it fun and titillating two dudes making out seems like an exact and sensible parallel.

I don't really follow why watching two people of the gender that normally turns me on macking would indicate that I myself have latent, repressed desires for the other gender.
posted by Diablevert at 10:37 AM on August 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


This is a chick.
posted by morganannie at 11:09 AM on August 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


This is nothing compared to some of the controversies within the Insane Clown Posse fan/'shipping community.
posted by infinitywaltz at 11:26 AM on August 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


There is a lot of this going on on Instagram as well. I check out the Explore page pretty frequently and there is inevitably something about One Direction (1D to the kids, apparently). It is extremely bizarre. I also know that Niall really likes Nando's (and believe him to have good taste).

Why I know this much about One Direction (and why I keep looking!) I do not really understand, but it was enough to recognize them by their strange haircuts at the closing ceremonies (although not by their music, which I had never heard).

It is all really confusing to me and makes me feel old (I am not old).
posted by urbanlenny at 11:27 AM on August 24, 2012


I just hope I wouldn't have been obsessed enough with any one celebrity/band to spend hours online attacking fans with opposing viewpoints, or to make death threats against the celebrity's partner

Let me get this straight. The only reason more tween Justin Bieber fans have not been prosecuted for tweeting death threats to Selena Gomez is because the tweeners can't reliably type or spell well enough to make a coherent threat? I weep for the youth of America.
posted by jonp72 at 11:37 AM on August 24, 2012


the Insane Clown Posse fan/'shipping community

.
posted by jbickers at 11:39 AM on August 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


jamjam: "That's a very deep perception, almostmanda, but I'm inclined to think the appeal is more that these boys are acting out the forbidden passion tween girls have for each other"

Wow, I'm going to have to come down hard against the idea of the tween girls' "forbidden love" motivation here.

One of the most disturbing issues facing young people today is the way girls are pressured to be sexual beings on every level, for the sole purpose of titillating the guys.

I spend a lot of time with teens. I do a lot to encourage teen girls to be assertive in their relationships. Still, I see a disturbing amount of girls putting up with crap they shouldn't just to "keep" some guy in their lives.

Guys do this, too, of course, but for the girls especially there is often a disturbingly sexual component involved. Otherwise smart and self-assured girls will do stupid things like make out with other girls in front of guys, not--and I want to be really clear here--because they want to, but because they feel the pressure to show they are "cool", and they know that's a common fantasy for guys.

It's really messed up, and naturally I raised my boys to treat their partners with respect, and that while sexuality is a fluid thing, with people's preferences falling all the hell over the place, no one should feel pressured to do things that make them uncomfortable sexually.

So, to the point you have raised, jamjam, your reasoning just does not follow. Sexual behavior between girls is just accepted among their peers in a way that it isn't between boys. If anything, girls are encouraged to show "passion" for each other, while boys doing so, though we have come a long way, still carries a huge stigma.

I think this is more your hind brain telling you what you want to believe than anything that is based on actual facts.
posted by misha at 11:46 AM on August 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


This is nothing compared to some of the controversies within the Insane Clown Posse fan/'shipping community.

You have ruined my day.
posted by IAmUnaware at 11:51 AM on August 24, 2012


This is nothing compared to some of the controversies within the Insane Clown Posse fan/'shipping community.

You have ruined my day.


Actually, the more I think about it, I think I now want to have some sort of mefite-created thing in which ICP and the cast of Community have all sorts of weirdly complex romantic relationships. And it's set in the Doctor Who universe. Anybody want to have a meetup, or at least start a Tumblr?
posted by jbickers at 12:02 PM on August 24, 2012


On a lighter note: my spouse, a 45 year-old man, loves One Direction's music, for which we naturally tease him mercilessly, drawing parallels between him and the rest of their fanbase, which is mostly tweens.

When the closing ceremonies of the Olympics came on, he was out getting ice cream with our oldest son, while our youngest was at his girlfriend's house. I was recording the ceremonies, and Bob Costas came on and said something like, "If you have any tween girls at home, you might want to encourage them to get closer to the television, because next up is One Direction!"

At which point, I stopped the DVR, turned up the volume and queued it to that exact moment, and called my younger son to tell him what had just happened and implore him to come home, so we could all be there at this momentous occasion when Dad hears Bob Costas likening him to a tween girl.

So I'm sitting there, waiting, and they all take FOREVER to get home, and I'm trying to hold myself together, but the suspense is killing me. Then they actually all do end up at home, and it was even more frustrating, because my husband just HAD to make Irish coffee to go along with his ice cream and I was all, "But! But! But! There's this part I KNOW YOU'LL WANT TO SEE! You have to HURRY UP!"

Meanwhile, I am keeping my eldest, who is bored beyond comprehension by any musical performance not Asking Alexandra or Olafir Arnalds, in the room with thinly veiled promises of better entertainment to come, but of course he could not care in the least that The Who are coming up or the Spice Girls are reuniting, so is basically just humoring me and mentally cataloguing nursing homes as we wait.

Finally, the big moment comes, and I turn it up loud and play the Bob Costas introduction and One Direction comes on. And I am falling down laughing, with tears running down my face and my kids are like, maybe mildly amused, and my spouse DIDN'T EVEN HEAR WHAT BOB COSTAS SAID.

So I had to rerun the DVR again. And that meant that I had to sit through some of the crappiest musical performances ever, TWICE.

I'm thinking he got the last laugh here, after all.
posted by misha at 12:11 PM on August 24, 2012 [5 favorites]


This is a well-established thing in Japanese pop culture. It would be interesting if they have the Real People Fiction version.

I can see why someone would looove this. It has all the components of a good story.
Protagonist : The two lovers. It has that delicious will they/ won't they tension.
Antagonist : The evil corporate mustache-twirlers keeping them apart.
Setting: An amazing fantasy world filled with money, glamor, and excitement. Plus it's safe. The only thing at stake is a broken heart.
Intrigue: There's a dastardly conspiracy keeping them apart. Does the boy love the girl? Or will he give in to his true feeling? Find out after the break.
posted by hot_monster at 12:27 PM on August 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


jbickers Actually, the more I think about it, I think I now want to have some sort of mefite-created thing in which ICP and the cast of Community have all sorts of weirdly complex romantic relationships. And it's set in the Doctor Who universe. Anybody want to have a meetup, or at least start a Tumblr?

Can they be ponies?
posted by hot_monster at 12:37 PM on August 24, 2012


After Ontological Battleship I wanna play Epistemological Twister!

Or Phenomenological Monopoly.


You are already playing Snarks and Lurkers without realizing it.
posted by srboisvert at 12:44 PM on August 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


Popslash is weirdly awesome / awesomely weird, I think in part because so much of it is feral fandom without fannish "rules" to follow. So its fans keep creating new fannish tropes (IIRC I think stuff like fic-remixes and "X woke up a girl / woke up gay" started in popslash?) while also cheerfully flaunting behavior that Just Isn't Done in fandom (like drawing attention to yourself and your porn from mainstream media. Though by this point it's hard to imagine what fandom would look like without popslash / Real Person Slash, because its aesthetic has colored so much of fandom by proxy now. For example in Supernatural a lot of fans opted for J2 RPS as the less squicky alternative to Wincest-shipping Sam/Dean looking hot together.

Fascinating!
posted by nicebookrack at 1:19 PM on August 24, 2012


I was 14 or so when NKOTB were popular. No internet, obviously, yet somehow I ended up writing slash fic on my own (Donnie/Jordan). I never even realized that it had a name or was a thing until now. I'm pretty sure my female friends at the time thought it was weird-bordering-on-creepy.

I probably still have it somewhere.
posted by desjardins at 1:28 PM on August 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Find it! Find it!
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:25 PM on August 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


You have ruined my day.

I aim to please.

In all seriousness, I don't know if there actually is Insane Clown Posse fan/'shipping and will not be looking for it myself.
posted by infinitywaltz at 2:34 PM on August 24, 2012


Rule 34: If it exists, someone on the internet has written smut about it.
posted by toerinishuman at 2:36 PM on August 24, 2012


So, to the point you have raised, jamjam, your reasoning just does not follow. Sexual behavior between girls is just accepted among their peers in a way that it isn't between boys. If anything, girls are encouraged to show "passion" for each other, while boys doing so, though we have come a long way, still carries a huge stigma.

I think this is more your hind brain telling you what you want to believe than anything that is based on actual facts.


Every woman I've been involved with and gotten to know well, with one exception, and most of the women I've gotten to know well but haven't been involved with have told me of crushes on other girls which had, mainly in retrospect, an undeniable sexual component. In quite a few cases, they ultimately actually did have sex with the object of their affections, and none of that had anything to do with titillating boys, believe me.

I'm glad to hear you are doing what you can to empower girls to know what they really want and don't want and to resist peer pressures toward engaging in unwanted sex acts, but given this comment, I'd have to be concerned that you are merely another adult pursuing a disguised heteronormative agenda.
posted by jamjam at 3:21 PM on August 24, 2012


So jamjam, you disagree with the idea that sexual behavior between girl friends (and I mean 'friends who are girls') is more acceptable than sexual behavior between boy friends?

Because that fits my experience pretty closely, although I admit it's been 15 years since I was a girl and 6 years since I was in college. I could hug my girl friends and hold hands with my girl friends to a much later age than boys could. I could cuddle with and even make out with my girl friends in college - not to titillate boys, but also not because I was sexually attracted to them (mostly because I was bored) - without being labelled a lesbian.

(Also, as a girl who was secretly in to guy/boy pairings as I was awakening sexually, for me it wasn't about 'forbidden desires' or anything like that. Not that my experience is universal, but just that your idea doesn't resonate for me at all.)
posted by muddgirl at 3:31 PM on August 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Find it! Find it!

I actually have my diaries from about 13 years old on, so I tried to find it, but got lost in the abjectly terrible love poems directed at my French teacher.
posted by desjardins at 3:37 PM on August 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


Yeah, jamjam, you are bang off the mark with the heteronormative agenda. I'm as pro gay rights as they come.
posted by misha at 3:43 PM on August 24, 2012


So jamjam, you disagree with the idea that sexual behavior between girl friends (and I mean 'friends who are girls') is more acceptable than sexual behavior between boy friends?

I'm over 60. In my generation it was far less acceptable for girls to have sexual feelings for girls than for boys to be interested in boys.
posted by jamjam at 3:46 PM on August 24, 2012


But misha wasn't talking about sexual feelings. She was talking about sexual behavior.
posted by muddgirl at 3:49 PM on August 24, 2012


(But on the topic of sexual feelings, 'girl crushes' have been alternately acceptable and not-acceptable, but my impression is they have always been seen as more acceptable. Were boy-crushes really acceptable in the 1960s? I would be fascinated to read about that.)
posted by muddgirl at 3:52 PM on August 24, 2012


@desjardins
At first I questioned your choice of Donnie and Jordan but thinking about it (and thinking and thinking), I think you're on to something.
posted by k8t at 4:16 PM on August 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Based on a re-read of my teenage ramblings, I have a theory.

I was terrified of rejection, so it was easier to imagine that they were gay rather than that they just didn't like me.

Oddly enough, the French teacher with whom I was absolutely enamored actually did turn out to be gay.

On preview: k8t, Jordan was the hottest IMHO (and I ended up marrying a guy with dark hair & eyes, so). Hey, looks like he's aged pretty well. Oh hey, he's one year older than my husband. Huh.

I'm just going to stop here.
posted by desjardins at 4:25 PM on August 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


Yeah, ask Ambrosia Voyeur about how much I screamed for Jordan when we saw NKOTB a few years ago. Desjardins, if you haven't seen them live on the reunion tour, I highly recommend it. They totally play on everyone's teen fantasies... Especially pottymouth Donnie.

Or this lovely photo of me, 8 months pregnant, going to NKOTB in LA... Jordan knows. http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/katypearce/6281010502/
posted by k8t at 6:08 PM on August 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Based on a re-read of my teenage ramblings, I have a theory.

Yep. I blame bunnies too.
posted by Mezentian at 9:34 PM on August 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


(But on the topic of sexual feelings, 'girl crushes' have been alternately acceptable and not-acceptable, but my impression is they have always been seen as more acceptable. Were boy-crushes really acceptable in the 1960s? I would be fascinated to read about that.)

Girl crushes are acceptable, as long as the girls are attractive to men and do not reject them. In general, men don't care so much about how women feel - especially when women aren't acting on their feelings. They care that women are meeting their standards of sexual attractiveness and are receptive to their attentions.
posted by subdee at 9:37 PM on August 24, 2012


I was sort of talking about the acceptability of girl crushes in the opinion of other women (mothers, teachers, friends), not in the opinion of men, but point taken.
posted by muddgirl at 9:44 PM on August 24, 2012


(and analogously, the acceptability of boy crushes in the opinion of other men, not the opinion of women).
posted by muddgirl at 9:45 PM on August 24, 2012


Anyway I think the appeal of popslash slash to teen girls is that, since the fans "own" each member, they also "own" the relationship. It's much less threatening than some outsider coming in and having a better claim on the love/attention of the pop star than the fans do.

I also think that pop stars tend to be these kind of emotional, expressive people, so it's easy to imagine that their relationships go a bit deeper than most people's relationships. I dunno 1D but just from glancing at some of the gifs in this thread Harry and Louis do give off that vibe of having connected on a deep emotional level. Maybe the 1D fans, being young, can only imagine one reason for this (They Are Sleeping Together & Are In True Love). Whereas the older fans, like Aja, know that human relationships can be a lot more complex and unknowable than that.
posted by subdee at 9:45 PM on August 24, 2012


Oh, oops. In that case I think girl crushes (between more-or-less straight-seeming girls) are less of a big deal than boy crushes, because it's a normal & positive for girls to be on the receiving end of someone else's desire.
posted by subdee at 10:01 PM on August 24, 2012


These people are clearly crazy—TwiLuna is the one true ship!
posted by bouvin at 9:48 AM on August 26, 2012


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