"I looked for you on the Trident."
September 8, 2012 1:27 PM Subscribe
The Tower Of Joy, an adaptation by comic book and storyboard artist Jeff McComsey of one scene from A Game of Thrones.
Huh. It's beautifully done but I do not remember the scene at all, and there's no context on the page. Anyone remember where/when this happens?
posted by Mars Saxman at 1:51 PM on September 8, 2012
posted by Mars Saxman at 1:51 PM on September 8, 2012
It's a flashback that Ned has at one point in GoT, so it doesn't actually "happen" in the main timeline of the books.
posted by LionIndex at 1:52 PM on September 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by LionIndex at 1:52 PM on September 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
It comes in Eddard's tenth chapter, 39th overall in the first book, between Tyrion's fifth and Catelyn's seventh chapters. It's basically right after Ned and his men get attacked by Jaime.
posted by LionIndex at 1:56 PM on September 8, 2012
posted by LionIndex at 1:56 PM on September 8, 2012
It's a flashback during Ned's imprisonment - the scene takes place right at the end of Robert's Rebellion, after Rhaegar's death.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:57 PM on September 8, 2012
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:57 PM on September 8, 2012
I’ve done a little math and if I started at the beginning of the series and took four pages to adapt every page and a half of text it would takes me 22 years to work up to The Winds of Winter.
Stop procrastrinating, I'm not that young anymore.
posted by hat_eater at 2:05 PM on September 8, 2012
Stop procrastrinating, I'm not that young anymore.
posted by hat_eater at 2:05 PM on September 8, 2012
I hope that when this secret this finally formally revealed it isn't as boring as when the big secret in the last book was revealed. I was unimpressed about how that came out.
posted by Chekhovian at 2:06 PM on September 8, 2012
posted by Chekhovian at 2:06 PM on September 8, 2012
It's also crucial to a very popular fan theory, albeit one that still hasn't panned out four books later.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:09 PM on September 8, 2012
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 2:09 PM on September 8, 2012
Single biggest thing missing from the show
posted by Patbon at 3:34 PM on September 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Patbon at 3:34 PM on September 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
uh, I must have missed the whole theory... can someone link me or clue me in as to what makes this scene so important?
posted by rebent at 5:56 PM on September 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by rebent at 5:56 PM on September 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
uh, I must have missed the whole theory... can someone link me or clue me in as to what makes this scene so important?
Potential spoiler. It's a good theory, and fairly widely accepted. Still has not been revealed in the books.
posted by brevator at 6:32 PM on September 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
Potential spoiler. It's a good theory, and fairly widely accepted. Still has not been revealed in the books.
posted by brevator at 6:32 PM on September 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
Single biggest thing missing from the show
It'll probably make more sense to include it closer to the actual payoff, which is going to be at least four seasons away.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:41 PM on September 8, 2012
It'll probably make more sense to include it closer to the actual payoff, which is going to be at least four seasons away.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:41 PM on September 8, 2012
This scene, missing from the show, sets up Ned as a legendary swordsman/figure of legend. His portrayal in the series was fine, yet there was little buildup to how momentus the Jaime/Ned fight was. Jaime approaches the fight knowing that a)he can win, and b) this will be written about, and it will add to his own personal legend, which up til now was mostly winning tournaments and killing crazy old men. When the guardsmen interferes, he's taken that from Jaime.
That said, it's a scene that works in a novel, with no budgetary restrictions, and no time limits per episode. I'm not sure they could have taken much away from the first season with lessening what they did, even by adding this. Instead, we just have to take everyone's word that Ned is a badass of legend.
And I'd read this comic. Several times. I'd like him to get start now.
posted by Ghidorah at 6:44 PM on September 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
That said, it's a scene that works in a novel, with no budgetary restrictions, and no time limits per episode. I'm not sure they could have taken much away from the first season with lessening what they did, even by adding this. Instead, we just have to take everyone's word that Ned is a badass of legend.
And I'd read this comic. Several times. I'd like him to get start now.
posted by Ghidorah at 6:44 PM on September 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
It's pretty undeniable when you go back and re-read those passages.
posted by georg_cantor at 6:59 PM on September 8, 2012
posted by georg_cantor at 6:59 PM on September 8, 2012
It also introduces a fellow named Howland Reed and another something something something..
posted by dobie at 7:09 PM on September 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by dobie at 7:09 PM on September 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ghidorah
I've actually read some persuasive arguments (based solely on book text; the show changes things, of course) that Eddard was a great battle commander, but not an exceptional swordsman in his own right. Certainly not the equal of Arthur Dayne, Barristan Selmy, or Jaime Lannister (to name three of the most skilled Knights of Westeros) in single combat.
Remember that (if memory serves) Eddard admits that even having approached the battle with a seven-to-three advantage, Arthur Dayne would have killed him but for Howland Reed, the Lord of Graywater Watch. Given that we've been told nothing of Howland Reed's combat prowess, and the Crannogmen are known to prefer subterfuge to open combat, it is very likely that Reed's help was some form of poison or unfair distraction.
As for the comic, I enjoyed it very much, but I'd be interested to see how he'd draw it within the context of Eddard's fever-dream, and what stylistic changes he'd employ (short of captions) to differentiate the remembrance from the present.
posted by The Confessor at 7:29 PM on September 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
I've actually read some persuasive arguments (based solely on book text; the show changes things, of course) that Eddard was a great battle commander, but not an exceptional swordsman in his own right. Certainly not the equal of Arthur Dayne, Barristan Selmy, or Jaime Lannister (to name three of the most skilled Knights of Westeros) in single combat.
Remember that (if memory serves) Eddard admits that even having approached the battle with a seven-to-three advantage, Arthur Dayne would have killed him but for Howland Reed, the Lord of Graywater Watch. Given that we've been told nothing of Howland Reed's combat prowess, and the Crannogmen are known to prefer subterfuge to open combat, it is very likely that Reed's help was some form of poison or unfair distraction.
As for the comic, I enjoyed it very much, but I'd be interested to see how he'd draw it within the context of Eddard's fever-dream, and what stylistic changes he'd employ (short of captions) to differentiate the remembrance from the present.
posted by The Confessor at 7:29 PM on September 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
I don't think it is accurate to say Ned was a swordsman of legend. He was certainly more than competent. Even great, perhaps. But it seems clear the real legends would have defeated him handily. The three Kingsguard at the ToJ took on seven opponents (including Ned) and killed five of them, for example. Ned was very good but Arthur Dayne, or Barristan Selmy, or Jaime Lannister were more than a match for him.
I also think doing a visual adaptation of this scene misses the point and likely loses the necessary ambiguity.
posted by Justinian at 7:29 PM on September 8, 2012
I also think doing a visual adaptation of this scene misses the point and likely loses the necessary ambiguity.
posted by Justinian at 7:29 PM on September 8, 2012
Curse you, Confessor. You even picked the same examples.
posted by Justinian at 7:33 PM on September 8, 2012
posted by Justinian at 7:33 PM on September 8, 2012
Let's do it guys. Let's nerd the hell out tonight. Who's with me?
posted by dobie at 7:43 PM on September 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by dobie at 7:43 PM on September 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
The material would lend itself beautifully to a comic or graphic novel, wouldn't it?
posted by cacofonie at 7:45 PM on September 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by cacofonie at 7:45 PM on September 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
His portrayal in the series was fine, yet there was little buildup to how momentus the Jaime/Ned fight was. Jaime approaches the fight knowing that a)he can win, and b) this will be written about, and it will add to his own personal legend, which up til now was mostly winning tournaments and killing crazy old men. When the guardsmen interferes, he's taken that from Jaime.
Someone hasn't read the book since seeing the show.
In the book, they never fight. Don't even come near to. Jaimie knows he can't simply challenge the Hand of the King, so he simply orders his men to kill Ned's. Ned's horse is slain when he tries to interfere, and falls on top of his leg, crushing it.
It was a cruel, calculated reprisal for the arrest of his brother.
I've actually read some persuasive arguments (based solely on book text; the show changes things, of course) that Eddard was a great battle commander, but not an exceptional swordsman in his own right
He wan't even the best Stark with a sword, according to GRRM.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:10 PM on September 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
Someone hasn't read the book since seeing the show.
In the book, they never fight. Don't even come near to. Jaimie knows he can't simply challenge the Hand of the King, so he simply orders his men to kill Ned's. Ned's horse is slain when he tries to interfere, and falls on top of his leg, crushing it.
It was a cruel, calculated reprisal for the arrest of his brother.
I've actually read some persuasive arguments (based solely on book text; the show changes things, of course) that Eddard was a great battle commander, but not an exceptional swordsman in his own right
He wan't even the best Stark with a sword, according to GRRM.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:10 PM on September 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
D'oh. I was wrong. Images in head might be radically different than images in reality. For some reason I'd thought it was just Stark and the crannogman, but on being reminded...
duh.
do I have to turn in my geek card now? I've had it for so long, and I love all of the stickers I covered it with...
posted by Ghidorah at 9:23 PM on September 8, 2012
duh.
do I have to turn in my geek card now? I've had it for so long, and I love all of the stickers I covered it with...
posted by Ghidorah at 9:23 PM on September 8, 2012
Not only is the textual evidence for the theory being talked about here fairly conclusive, there is extra-textual evidence as well. For instance, the actor who plays Theon said that GRR Martin told him and some of the cast whether the theory was true, then the actor made a slip and basically confirmed it. There's a lot of stuff like that.
Is any of the dialogue in this scene canon, or is it all extrapolated and invented?
posted by painquale at 9:43 PM on September 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
Is any of the dialogue in this scene canon, or is it all extrapolated and invented?
posted by painquale at 9:43 PM on September 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah, this is a theory in the same way evolution by means of natural selection is a theory. The evidence is overwhelming.
posted by Justinian at 10:21 PM on September 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 10:21 PM on September 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
This is what really pisses me off about the series. Its been SOOOOOOOO long that when these mysteries are "solved" my reaction is just going to be "meh, that was figured out 5 years ago".
posted by Chekhovian at 10:27 PM on September 8, 2012
posted by Chekhovian at 10:27 PM on September 8, 2012
I think the HBO series will overtake GRRM and we'll get the ending that way. There is simply no way GRRM will finish two books in the next couple years.
posted by Justinian at 11:38 PM on September 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 11:38 PM on September 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
I hope that when this secret this finally formally revealed it isn't as boring as when the big secret in the last book was revealed. I was unimpressed about how that came out.
That wasn't exactly an unimpeachable source of information.
posted by flaterik at 2:43 AM on September 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
That wasn't exactly an unimpeachable source of information.
posted by flaterik at 2:43 AM on September 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
Is any of the dialogue in this scene canon, or is it all extrapolated and invented?
It's canon. Ned dreams about it after his injury.
I think the HBO series will overtake GRRM and we'll get the ending that way. There is simply no way GRRM will finish two books in the next couple years.
It's going to take two years to adapt the next book alone, so he's got a little more room than that.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:31 AM on September 9, 2012
It's canon. Ned dreams about it after his injury.
I think the HBO series will overtake GRRM and we'll get the ending that way. There is simply no way GRRM will finish two books in the next couple years.
It's going to take two years to adapt the next book alone, so he's got a little more room than that.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:31 AM on September 9, 2012
That wasn't exactly an unimpeachable source of information
I was referring to the events north of the wall.
posted by Chekhovian at 6:49 AM on September 9, 2012
I was referring to the events north of the wall.
posted by Chekhovian at 6:49 AM on September 9, 2012
[SPOILERS THROUGH BOOK 5]
(I think the best illustration of Ned's prowess as a battle commander, rather than a swordsman, is the astonishing competence of not only his trueborn son, who had been raised to succeed him, but of Jon Snow, whose training had to have been at least somewhat more incidental.)
[SPOILERS THROUGH BOOK 5]
posted by The Confessor at 7:15 AM on September 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
(I think the best illustration of Ned's prowess as a battle commander, rather than a swordsman, is the astonishing competence of not only his trueborn son, who had been raised to succeed him, but of Jon Snow, whose training had to have been at least somewhat more incidental.)
[SPOILERS THROUGH BOOK 5]
posted by The Confessor at 7:15 AM on September 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
Snow apparently got more battle commander than lord training.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:27 AM on September 9, 2012
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 8:27 AM on September 9, 2012
I really like this, but boy does that last panel demonstrate the importance of good lettering in comics - that cry of "EDDARD!" looks far too wacky for the situation, as if Ned had just slipped onions in Lyanna's lemon cake batter or drawn a goatee and horns on her favorite picture of Rhaegar ... I've looked at it several times since yesterday and still hear Dave yelling at Alvin every time.
posted by DingoMutt at 10:03 AM on September 9, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by DingoMutt at 10:03 AM on September 9, 2012 [3 favorites]
@ cacofonie, there already is a comic adaptation of GoT in production now. I saw a couple issues at the local comic shop a week or so ago.
posted by daHIFI at 11:07 AM on September 9, 2012
posted by daHIFI at 11:07 AM on September 9, 2012
OMG I just figured it out. Reading is for suckers. TV and comics forever.
posted by Catchfire at 11:48 AM on September 9, 2012
posted by Catchfire at 11:48 AM on September 9, 2012
Reading is for suckers. TV and comics forever.
Would that I had not heard of GOT until the TV series came out and had not actually spent the time reading about Brienne on her fractal adventures with increasingly irrelevant side quests, and Tyrion's Kerouac-esque "On the Road" adventures.
posted by Chekhovian at 11:54 AM on September 9, 2012
Would that I had not heard of GOT until the TV series came out and had not actually spent the time reading about Brienne on her fractal adventures with increasingly irrelevant side quests, and Tyrion's Kerouac-esque "On the Road" adventures.
posted by Chekhovian at 11:54 AM on September 9, 2012
With Arya in Essos, Brienne's quest is needed to show the plight of the Smallfolk.
Tyrion was apparently in a holding pattern so he could arrive in Mereen at the right time.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:10 PM on September 9, 2012
Tyrion was apparently in a holding pattern so he could arrive in Mereen at the right time.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:10 PM on September 9, 2012
so he could arrive in Mereen at the right time
Oh the Mereenese knot....how many years did that delay DWD? And how much did it actually matter when it was finally solved?
posted by Chekhovian at 12:12 PM on September 9, 2012
Oh the Mereenese knot....how many years did that delay DWD? And how much did it actually matter when it was finally solved?
posted by Chekhovian at 12:12 PM on September 9, 2012
Something like eleven years, and it mattered in that he could finish ADWD!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:20 PM on September 9, 2012
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 12:20 PM on September 9, 2012
[BOOK 5 SPOILERS]
On one hand it is nice seeing her get bogged in politics and showing that politics is complicated business. On the other hand, the usual 'ride dragon and kill things with fire' resolution seems like repetition of a point. The second part of Tyrion's arc felt a bit repetitive too tbh.
[/BOOK 5 SPOILERS]
posted by ersatz at 12:43 PM on September 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
On one hand it is nice seeing her get bogged in politics and showing that politics is complicated business. On the other hand, the usual 'ride dragon and kill things with fire' resolution seems like repetition of a point. The second part of Tyrion's arc felt a bit repetitive too tbh.
[/BOOK 5 SPOILERS]
posted by ersatz at 12:43 PM on September 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
I almost threw the book into a wall at the end of Dany's storyline in Book 5. 15 years and we're back here? Fucking really?
posted by Justinian at 12:51 PM on September 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 12:51 PM on September 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
15 years and we're back here?
Back where? Dany with a full grown dragon that she can ride? Where was that, previously?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:27 PM on September 9, 2012
Back where? Dany with a full grown dragon that she can ride? Where was that, previously?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:27 PM on September 9, 2012
The goddamn Dothraki Wastes, that's where.
posted by Justinian at 7:30 PM on September 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 7:30 PM on September 9, 2012 [2 favorites]
The goddamn Dothraki Sea, with a full grown dragon.
No more wandering through the Red Wastes. Shit's going to go down.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:55 AM on September 10, 2012
No more wandering through the Red Wastes. Shit's going to go down.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:55 AM on September 10, 2012
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
posted by Justinian at 10:56 AM on September 10, 2012
posted by Justinian at 10:56 AM on September 10, 2012
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, Red Wedding.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:24 AM on September 10, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:24 AM on September 10, 2012 [6 favorites]
More from McComsey:
The Red Viper vs. The Mountain (part 1)
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:11 PM on September 10, 2012
The Red Viper vs. The Mountain (part 1)
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:11 PM on September 10, 2012
I don't really like the way he made Oberyn look casually bored in that scene. The Red Viper is a pistol!
posted by painquale at 1:17 PM on September 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by painquale at 1:17 PM on September 10, 2012 [1 favorite]
I don't really like the way he made Oberyn look casually bored in that scene. The Red Viper is a pistol!
This. So very much this. Really hoping things change in parts 2 & 3.
posted by DingoMutt at 2:50 PM on September 10, 2012
This. So very much this. Really hoping things change in parts 2 & 3.
posted by DingoMutt at 2:50 PM on September 10, 2012
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posted by dobie at 1:39 PM on September 8, 2012