Comments on: "The banners of the King of Hell come forth"

"The banners of the King of Hell come forth"

the man of twists and turns — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 12:26:25 -0800

Mary Jo Bang has a new translation of Dante's Inferno in contemporary English.

Illustrations by Henrik Drescher. Bang:

I felt that a contemporary translation that more closely approximated spoken English would better match Dante's original intent to create a text that could be read and understood by all.

reviews from: Quarterly Conversation, Brooklyn Rail, Vanity Fair. A passage, hosted on The Awl. The beginning:

Stopped mid-motion in the middle Of what we call a life, I looked up and saw no sky— Only a dense cage of leaf, tree and twig. I was lost. It's difficult to describe a forest: Savage, arduous, extreme in its extremity. I think And the facts come back, then the fear comes back. Death, I think, can only be slightly more bitter.

By: chavenet

chavenet — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 12:30:09 -0800

As a reminder: Nel mezzo del cammin di nostra vita mi ritrovai per una selva oscura, ché la diritta via era smarrita. Ahi quanto a dir qual era è cosa dura esta selva selvaggia e aspra e forte che nel pensier rinova la paura! Tant' è amara che poco è più morte;

By: Egg Shen

Egg Shen — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 12:32:22 -0800

Perdition Blue.

By: The World Famous

The World Famous — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 12:36:27 -0800

As a Dante enthusiast, I thought this sounded like a great idea until I read that translation of the opening lines and was completely let down. Compare it to Mandelbaum's excellent translation: When I had journeyed half of our life's way, I found myself within a shadowed forest, for I had lost the path that does not stray. Ah, it is hard to speak of what it was, that savage forest, dense and difficult, which even in recall renews my fear: so bitter-death is hardly more severe!

By: chavenet

chavenet — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 12:37:26 -0800

These efforts are always more interesting yet less durable than the "outrage" about them makes them seem. As if a "stunt" translation will somehow supersede a poetic one (like, say, Pinsky's, in this case.) That said, I didn't ask for an Inferno with Velcro, swiftboating and Steven Colbert.

By: yoink

yoink — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 12:40:37 -0800

"extreme in its extremity"? Yeesh, that's an ugly phrase. You wouldn't think a translator would go there unless pretty forcefully lead by the original text. Not that one should judge a translation by a few opening lines, of course.

By: found missing

found missing — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 12:47:00 -0800

"extreme in its extremity" That's what she said! (literally, that's what she said)

By: jquinby

jquinby — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 12:50:24 -0800

That said, I didn't ask for an Inferno with Velcro, swiftboating and Steven Colbert. We get the Hell we deserve, not the Hell we want. Am partial to Anthony Esolen's translation of Dante, myself.

By: tigrefacile

tigrefacile — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 12:53:39 -0800

My suspicion is she's not a very good poet and therefore not the ideal person to translate a poem. Her grasp on the contemporary moment seems shaky too. But I'm just going on the excerpts. There are some duff bits in the original too, I'm sure. If you do a gadgety translation, though, the danger is that you're say "look at me" rather than "look at this piece of foreign literature which is amazing".

By: Your Disapproving Father

Your Disapproving Father — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 13:02:58 -0800

When we turned thirty-five I found myself in a dark forest the straight road lost. Christ. It's hard to tell you how hard those woods were, savage, scraping, gripping - to think is to fear again and so bitter that I think of death kindly.

By: The World Famous

The World Famous — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 13:03:35 -0800

There are some duff bits in the original too, I'm sure. I've read it several times in the original and studied it with recognized leading scholars on the subject, and I did not notice any duff bits.

By: Egg Shen

Egg Shen — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 13:11:04 -0800

I did not notice any duff bits Some of that terza rima was naff.

By: pont

pont — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 13:18:08 -0800

yoink: I assumed that "extreme in its extremity" was meant to be an echo of "selva selvaggia". Doesn't make it any less clunky though. On the whole, though, I really like the linked Canto XXXIV. It's the most straightforward and natural translation of Dante I've seen, though I can see how references to things like wind turbines might be a bit jarring.

By: joecacti

joecacti — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 13:46:46 -0800

I forced myself through a forgotten version of Inferno some years back. I recall many references to Dante's contemporaries, to such an extent that I had to use a companion volume to understand. I can see how it would be tempting to bring it into a more current state, if only to ease that understanding. It must be bonus fun to choose which current political figures replace Dante's original targets. I am sensing a blog. Category: Cartoons. I'll start with the 9th circle because it's easiest: Family Circus.

By: kmz

kmz — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 13:52:51 -0800

Wait, where's the bit where Dante fights all manners of hellbeasts with the scythe he stole from Death?

By: Legomancer

Legomancer — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 13:53:41 -0800

Does she also translate the pop-culture references into current pop-culture?

By: madcaptenor

madcaptenor — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 14:05:48 -0800

I just bought the Mandelbaum translation. No, seriously, I bought it at a used bookstore after this post was made and before I read it.

By: The World Famous

The World Famous — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 14:07:06 -0800

Does she also translate the pop-culture references into current pop-culture? Virgil is translated as "Lou Reed."

By: rough ashlar

rough ashlar — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 14:12:33 -0800

Now where is the $0 cost e books?

By: madcaptenor

madcaptenor — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 14:15:03 -0800

Also, comparing the sample of Bang's translation to the corresponding bit of Mandelbaum, I just want to scream that what Bang has done is not poetry. Bang is doing prose with line breaks.

By: Chrysostom

Chrysostom — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 14:25:06 -0800

Does Dante meet Mussolini this time?

By: koeselitz

koeselitz — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 14:34:42 -0800

John Ciardi's translation. None better. Mandelbaum's is an attempt to do about four things at once, and it does all of them sort of okay; but the heart of Dante is the story, and if you want the poetry or the rhythm you probably should do what I do and read bits and pieces of the Italian to yourself as you go along. (I don't understand a word of Italian, but I do like the way it sounds.)

By: koeselitz

koeselitz — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 14:39:56 -0800

madcaptenor: “Also, comparing the sample of Bang's translation to the corresponding bit of Mandelbaum, I just want to scream that what Bang has done is not poetry. Bang is doing prose with line breaks.” Other things to scream: 'This isn't prose! It's various words arranged into sentences which have then been placed in sequence to form paragraphs!' 'This isn't a painting! It's various colored pigments placed on a canvas and hung on the wall!' 'This isn't music! It's a mixture of sounds created by manipulating various instruments!'

By: Skygazer

Skygazer — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 15:15:07 -0800

Stopped mid-motion in the middle Of what we call a life, I looked up and saw no sky— Only a dense cage of leaf, tree and twig. I was lost. No..no..no...fucking NO! As someone for whom Italian is his first language, that first paragraph is a massive fail on a number of fronts, that stops ME dead in my tracks and not wanting to go any further; The first being the idea that the narrator is "stopped," mid-motion, he's not stopped, he's deeply lost in the middle years of his life trying to not lose the thread to what's important to him, and he feels as if he's in a dark wood, trying very hard not to become lost on some false path that strays from that and causes him to be more lost, from what and who he really is... For me there's a sense of nervous energy and danger and movement in that first stanza, the inexorable movement of a life through time...and through the inevitable path from birth to it's end (death). Mandelbaum gets a tiny bit too caught up on recreating a meter and rhyme, but is much much better. I haven't read anything better, yet and where Pinksy does a lovely job keeping the language entertaining and bristling, but he has a tendency to embellish for the terza rima. Things is anything that gets away from the incredible riveting and mesmerizing aspects of the story itself, which is as great as anything: Dante and Virgil's friendship, the different actually hilarious, yet illuminating, come-uppances in the different rings of hell, and the various entertaining characters who appear and the ultimate beauty of the ideal and all encompassing love Dante feels for Beatrice, is getting away from the wickedly devastating satirical comedy and spirit of the thing. In a nutshell: If you're not compelled and pulled in, laughing, and nodding your head in amused agreement to the richly imagined punishments while you're reading (or being read) the Inferno, something is very very wrong. You don't stop Dante in the middle of his woods, at the beginning of one of the most amazing journey's in all literature. He has a long long long way to go until he finally sees the sun come up again...there's no stopping.

By: The World Famous

The World Famous — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 15:33:38 -0800

He has a long long long way to go until he finally sees the sun come up again Or at least the stars.

By: smoke

smoke — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 16:54:04 -0800

Virgil is translated as "Lou Reed." Hmmmm, I don't think I'm gonna be checking this one out.

By: The World Famous

The World Famous — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 16:58:53 -0800

I was kidding. As far as I can tell, she kept Virgil as Virgil.

By: smoke

smoke — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 17:27:24 -0800

Oh thank god for that.

By: redbeard

redbeard — Tue, 11 Sep 2012 19:36:54 -0800

So what would she do with Paradiso? That would be the real test.