Comments on: A Death Ray that explodes after being dropped once is a poorly-designed Death Ray.

A Death Ray that explodes after being dropped once is a poorly-designed Death Ray.

Navelgazer — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 10:06:49 -0800

Dr. Horrible and products liability. Doctor Who and the necessity defense. Firefly and contract law. The Legal Geeks blog is exactly what it sounds like.

By: Zed

Zed — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 10:12:11 -0800

geeks. Gotta love 'em. (Heh. I was about to quote a line, then noticed Navelgazer already used it as the title.)

By: EmpressCallipygos

EmpressCallipygos — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 10:13:32 -0800

Point of order: The Doctor is a diplomatic representative of Gallifrey, and as such is most likely protected by Diplomatic Immunity from being bound by standard United States Federal Law.

By: 2manyusernames

2manyusernames — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 10:13:44 -0800

Similar idea in the comic book universe: http://lawandthemultiverse.com/

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 10:14:32 -0800

Law And The Multiverse is Mefi's own! (plus I made the logo!)

By: Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish

Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 10:16:45 -0800

I'm pretty sure you automatically forfeit diplomatic attachment to any government that you set on fire and then trap in an interdimensional time vortex. I'd love to see the Geeks address Rich Burlew's "Unlikely Heroes Defense" from Order of the Stick.

By: EmpressCallipygos

EmpressCallipygos — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 10:27:31 -0800

I'm pretty sure you automatically forfeit diplomatic attachment to any government that you set on fire and then trap in an interdimensional time vortex. Ah, but that government still exists, does it not? Yes, they are in a time vortex, but they still live and individual members conduct their affairs. All the more reason why The Doctor, as he is the only member of that government outside the vortex and thus the only being capable of serving as intermediary between our plane of existance and his own, seems like he should be doubly-qualified for diplomatic immunity.

By: tyllwin

tyllwin — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 10:28:12 -0800

I think it's nicely geeky that the first things we do are to argue with the legal theories. The Doctor has diplomatic immunity, huh? For myself, and Dr. Horrible, the Death Ray was never a product offered for sale, it was a stolen prototype. They'd have to sue under ordinary negligence. Even there they have an issue since it fell into the hands of an experienced hero who could be presumed to know to take appropriate safety measures.

By: Navelgazer

Navelgazer — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 10:30:58 -0800

tyllwin, I'm not disagreeing with your analysis on the products-liability side of things, but doesn't that push it directly into a textbook "inherently dangerous activities" situation?

By: Karmakaze

Karmakaze — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 10:31:31 -0800

I think the Dr. Horrible issue may also be complicated by the fact that Horrible was warning Hammer that the weapon was defective, not pleading for his life. Hammer clearly understood that, because his reply was not to justify his impending murder attempt, but to say he had no time to listen to warnings. He was also clearly aware of the likelihood of weapons malfunctions, based on his previous encounters with Horrible. If the manufacturer issues a recall, and then someone uses the product anyway, how does that affect liability?

By: MCMikeNamara

MCMikeNamara — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 10:32:36 -0800

The Doctor is a diplomatic representative of Gallifrey, and as such is most likely protected by Diplomatic Immunity from being bound by standard United States Federal Law. "Not to mention blah blah Shadow Proclamation blah blah" The above was actually a line from the pilot for the dropped spin-off Rose Tyler: Defense Council.

By: blue_beetle

blue_beetle — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 10:34:30 -0800

How would you even determine jurisdiction in a case like that?

By: Rock Steady

Rock Steady — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 10:44:52 -0800

MCMikeNamara: Rose Tyler: Defense Council I demand you make this now.

By: kmz

kmz — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 10:45:06 -0800

Oh god, the Shadow Proclamation. RTD's Speechifying Sonic Screwdriver.

By: ChurchHatesTucker

ChurchHatesTucker — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 10:47:55 -0800

Why assume a death ray has to survive a drop that would damage, say, a phone? Anyway, the quotes from the bench are amusing.

By: Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish

Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 11:13:14 -0800

Ah, but that government still exists, does it not? Yes, they are in a time vortex, but they still live and individual members conduct their affairs. Affairs largely oriented toward getting out of the time vortex, which makes the man who put them there singularly ill-equipped to represent their interests. (This is all neglecting the fact that the Doctor was clearly acting under the auspices of the Indian government in the episode in question, which means (a) their law controls; and (b) he may be entitled to a version of qualified immunity, if Indian courts have such a concept.)

By: EmpressCallipygos

EmpressCallipygos — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 11:18:27 -0800

(This is all neglecting the fact that the Doctor was clearly acting under the auspices of the Indian government in the episode in question, which means (a) their law controls; and (b) he may be entitled to a version of qualified immunity, if Indian courts have such a concept.) That's actually precisely what I'm getting at - that I'm not certain whose jurisdiction The Doctor can be said to be under at any point in time (or space). What is his precise citizenship? Affairs largely oriented toward getting out of the time vortex, which makes the man who put them there singularly ill-equipped to represent their interests. Unless, they were a deposed government, which it certainly seems they are. Rassilon's hostile nature and actions towards the United States (along with the rest of the universe) would certainly seem to characterize him as the leader of a hostile force. So perhaps The Doctor is indeed a representative of a government after all -- the new regime of Gallifrey, of which he is currently the sole member, and as such deserves diplomatic recognition; and with that comes diplomatic immunity.

By: cereselle

cereselle — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 11:21:46 -0800

As an adjunct professor teaching legal research at a law school, I am looking forward to mining this blog for fact patterns.

By: zamboni

zamboni — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 11:30:50 -0800

I'm still waiting for a blog that does the same sort of thing for crime shows and legal procedure. Jethro Gibbs should pay for his crimes! Would crimes aboard a Silurian ship involving two foreign nationals (the Doctor, and Solomon, a 24th century near-human) be subject to Indian Space Agency jurisdiction? They would seem to have occurred within the ISA's territorial space. Leaving aside the question of the Doctor's exact plenipotentiary status, I'd imagine that the presence of another head of state might muddy the waters a little.

By: Navelgazer

Navelgazer — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 11:32:06 -0800

By: EmpressCallipygos

EmpressCallipygos — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 11:37:39 -0800

I'm still waiting for a blog that does the same sort of thing for crime shows and legal procedure. Jethro Gibbs should pay for his crimes! Hoo boy, if you think the Doctor's jurisdiction is a mess, I can't wait to see what they'd do with Ziva "I'm In Mossad No Wait Now I'm Not Gotcha" David.

By: feistycakes

feistycakes — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 11:41:32 -0800

Wouldn't Earth (or it's individual nations) need to recognize the sovereignty of Gallifrey and establish diplomatic relations in order for The Doctor to be a diplomat? Where's the Galifreyan embassy? (Is it the T.A.R.D.I.S.?)

By: EmpressCallipygos

EmpressCallipygos — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 11:47:22 -0800

Wouldn't Earth (or it's individual nations) need to recognize the sovereignty of Gallifrey and establish diplomatic relations in order for The Doctor to be a diplomat? UNIT may be a sufficient entity for this purpose.

By: Navelgazer

Navelgazer — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 11:53:03 -0800

Also, more seriously (?) it seems to be kind of an important theme that nobody knows who the Doctor is right now, so it is highly unlikely that he would be treated as an intergalactic diplomat. If he were prosecuted at all, it would likely be under international jurisdiction or Indian law.

By: BeeDo

BeeDo — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 11:57:59 -0800

Perhaps Gallifrey has an embassy with Earth... but not with Humans? It could be with Silurians or Horses. So Humans would be an interested third party, but not legally recognized. (The new series just needs more Time Lords. Sure, Doctor vs Master is great, but I would really like to see the Doctor go up against one of his own who is not just evil for the sake of being evil. Perhaps one who is to the Silurians as the Doctor is to Humans. Or those guys who are human except have a squiggly line on their cheek, who make really good cyborgs.)

By: EmpressCallipygos

EmpressCallipygos — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 11:58:41 -0800

Also, more seriously (?) it seems to be kind of an important theme that nobody knows who the Doctor is right now, so it is highly unlikely that he would be treated as an intergalactic diplomat. Wait wait wait - some people do know, though. The UNIT representative from the most recent episode certainly knew.

By: Devonian

Devonian — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 11:59:01 -0800

The Doctor might be in a more favourable position were he to be an American. I doubt strongly, however, that he works for an accredited mission - unless someone from Gallifrey has presented their credentials. Also, that he complies with immigration rules and visa requirements, health and safety legislation, forgery, emissions regulations, criminal damage or burglary law. Practically every episode. He is the original illegal alien. However, as I do not believe the legal status of non-human sentient beings has ever been tested in the courts, I predict a very long and involved series of cases were he ever to end up in front of the beak.

By: Navelgazer

Navelgazer — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 12:01:46 -0800

Wait wait wait - some people do know, though. The UNIT representative from the most recent episode certainly knew. Yes, but as far as I recall it's unclear when the events of last episode happened. They seem to mostly fit into the timeline of "Pond Life" to me, placing them prior to the events in the Dalek Asylum.

By: EmpressCallipygos

EmpressCallipygos — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 12:05:13 -0800

I thought that Pond Life preceded all of that, because Amy and Rory split up at the end of Pond Life and then reconciled in the Dalek Asylum. And everything else this season has happened after that. ....Wibbly wobbly.

By: Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish

Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 12:05:17 -0800

Well they definitely happened before the Western episode, because they talk about having had recent difficulties with Henry VIII in that one.

By: Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish

Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 12:06:03 -0800

(Alternately, "Town Called Mercy" happened during the party in the cube episode)

By: PhoBWanKenobi

PhoBWanKenobi — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 12:32:09 -0800

Wait wait wait - some people do know, though. The UNIT representative from the most recent episode certainly knew. That threw me for a loop until the reveal about her parentage. I figured that she'd be less swayed by rumors of the Doctor's death than anyone else. (Remember, only the Daleks were mindwiped. Everyone else just thinks him dead.)

By: Panjandrum

Panjandrum — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 12:33:47 -0800

I think you're all missing out on the fact that the Doctor is the last Time Lord and would therefore be an endangered species under various national laws and international treaties, regardless of his diplomatic status. That might not save him from incarceration (or the zoo), but would at least take more punitive punishments off the table.

By: Atreides

Atreides — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 12:34:43 -0800

Combine my geekly delights with the stuff that I do on a daily basis just so people will give me money to pay for my life's necessities? No thanks. Seriously, it's bad enough when unwanted legal analysis bursts from my skull like an uninvited facehugger during regular day to day stuff, but please, don't combine it with my delights of mind and eye. It's a souring of something wonderful and distinct, a blending of two things which produces a vomit like substance, which true, probably has a nifty miniature cocktail umbrella on top, but is in essence an unholy union that undoubtedly is like that baby space parasite sucking on the energy of the Enterprise. But, hey, kudos to those who have a passion for both and want to see 'em get it on in grand style!

By: tilde

tilde — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 12:38:24 -0800

bookmarking and averting eyes .... spoilers for people who wait for Netflix to wander in with episodes!!!!!!!!!!!!!! or who have slept since the last available series and has no idea how it left off except for some vague happiness related to River Song ...

By: BeeDo

BeeDo — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 12:38:53 -0800

Remember, only the Daleks were mindwiped. Everyone else just thinks him dead. If that were the case, he would have been in Solomon's computer.

By: ewan

ewan — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 12:57:48 -0800

Assuming that the Doctor has to follow an Earth based judicial system, I'm pretty sure it would be "English and Welsh" law... (Although, pratically, if there IS a murder on the ISS, who DOES have jurisdiction?)

By: RonButNotStupid

RonButNotStupid — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 13:41:43 -0800

I think the Doctor is well-versed in the law. After all, he did stay his own execution on Gallifrey by invoking Article 17 and running for President of the High Council.

By: maryr

maryr — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 14:20:48 -0800

(Although, pratically, if there IS a murder on the ISS, who DOES have jurisdiction?) Probably not Wales.

By: hattifattener

hattifattener — Fri, 28 Sep 2012 19:07:48 -0800

Apparently it depends on in which part of the ISS the murder takes place. But what if you kill someone on EVA, I wonder? (Presumably some analogy would be drawn from maritime law which has to deal with similar problems?)

By: Joe in Australia

Joe in Australia — Sat, 29 Sep 2012 04:17:24 -0800

The two words that best describe Solomon are "greed" and "cruelty." Hmm. Would calling him "Shylock" have been too obvious?

By: Superfrankenstein

Superfrankenstein — Sat, 29 Sep 2012 08:15:11 -0800

I doubt strongly, however, that he works for an accredited mission - unless someone from Gallifrey has presented their credentials I think you'll find the credentials you require on this piece of psychic paper.