Comments on: A tough-love scroll through one of modern moviemaking's most depressing IMDb pages.

A tough-love scroll through one of modern moviemaking's most depressing IMDb pages.

davidjmcgee — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:22:51 -0800

"At this point his collaboration with Burton post–Ed Wood is such a study in diminishing returns that the only logical next step for them is a 3-D adaptation of Zeno's paradox with Depp as the voice of the arrow." Tim Burton: How Did It All Go Wrong So Fast?

By: shakespeherian

shakespeherian — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:25:33 -0800

Omigod this is relevant to my interests. Are you trying to pander to me specifically with this FPP, is my question.

By: Greg Nog

Greg Nog — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:27:58 -0800

Burton's reanimated Frankenweenie will trick-or-treat alongside Chris Butler and Sam Fell's ParaNorman (ghost-witches, zombies) and Genndy Tartakovsky's Hotel Transylvania Holy shit, I had no idea that was Tartakovsky. I was just waxing rhapsodic about Samurai Jack yesterday. Dang. Guess I'm gonna be seeing Hotel Transylvania.

By: Etrigan

Etrigan — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:29:02 -0800

Tartakovsky was like the sixth director on that thing. Don't get your hopes up too high.

By: vuron

vuron — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:30:01 -0800

I confess I don't really care for Ed Wood as a movie so I think Nightmare before Christmas is the high point of Tim Burton's career. Ever since the quality of his projects has been on a steady downward arc. There are parts of his more recent movies that have been solid but the overall quality has been unrelentingly poor.

By: ND¢

ND¢ — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:33:13 -0800

The problem is that Tim Burton began his career with a dozen or so really really good ideas, and has been reusing those same ideas over and over again for the last 30 years.

By: davidjmcgee

davidjmcgee — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:36:17 -0800

I think Nightmare before Christmas is the high point of Tim Burton's career. Is it telling that it's the one he didn't actually direct?

By: philip-random

philip-random — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:37:06 -0800

I don't know if it's deliberate or not, but the guy seems to hate story. I can't think of a Tim Burton movie (even the awful ones) that isn't overflowing with delightful, striking, beautiful imagery, but I can count on one disfigured hand the number of genuinely strong screenplays he's worked from. Sorry, man, once a movie's longer than say 12 minutes, it needs to honestly commit to some kind of narrative ... or else it just ends up being a wank.

By: roger ackroyd

roger ackroyd — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:37:44 -0800

MARS ATTACKS IS GENIUS, ACTUALLY.

By: Atom Eyes

Atom Eyes — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:38:31 -0800

My theory is that Depp has a secret stash of photos of Burton caught in an embarrassing or compromising situation, like say wearing a pastel polo, kicking it in a hackey-sack circle, or giddily blowing out the candles on a birthday cake at Applebees.

By: pxe2000

pxe2000 — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:38:34 -0800

Part of me thinks Burton should direct a reboot of Buckaroo Banzai, as there's a small enough overlap with some of the things he does well that it might pull him out of his cruise control. Another part of me remembers that both of Buckaroo's parents die in the first five minutes of the directors cut, and as a result this would be a horrible, horrible idea.

By: pxe2000

pxe2000 — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:39:43 -0800

(Also, am I the only one who thinks Big Fish is reasonably good for Burton's more recent work? It's not great or anything, but it's more consistently entertaining than, say, the 100% unnecessary Wonka remake.)

By: Jilder

Jilder — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:39:47 -0800

davidjmcgee: You are no doubt referring to the criminally under-rated Henry Selick, and watching Coraline and Nightmare back to back really does emphasise how important his influence is on the latter movie.

By: elizardbits

elizardbits — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:41:01 -0800

By: howfar

howfar — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:42:27 -0800

am I the only one who thinks Big Fish is reasonably good for Burton's more recent work? I liked Big Fish. Two English actors doing somewhat different accents for the same American character, but yeah, it's a decent film.

By: vuron

vuron — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:43:16 -0800

I honestly think that Burton's utter dependence on Depp and Helena Bonham-Carter is also really limiting the quality of his work. They are good actors at times but I think their relationship with Burton basically enable them to completely phone performances in. It's always Depp and Helena Bonham-Carter in ridiculous costumes not someone actually inhabiting the character. Yeah they are quirky and cute but they just don't inspire any real connection with the audience.

By: Curious Artificer

Curious Artificer — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:43:39 -0800

Hey, I liked Sweeney Todd.

By: jfuller

jfuller — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:45:13 -0800

> Is it telling that it's the one he didn't actually direct? Don't care. Everyone associated with Nightmare gets a lifetime achievement Oscar for that alone. If I ever find myself doing up presents, decorations, or seasonal food for great-great-great-grandchildren you may be sure I will be doing it while quietly singing MAKING CHRISTMAS MAKING CHRISTMAS to myself in a pseudo-monster basso.

By: FAMOUS MONSTER

FAMOUS MONSTER — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:46:56 -0800

With the exception of a handful of movies - Big Fish and Ed Wood and probably Mars Attacks, all of which I stand by as being really fantastic movies (all for different reasons), Burton tends to do his best work when he's not allowed free reign over everything, and basically has someone to answer to and someone willing to meddle with the product. I don't think it's a coincidence that the quality of his movies took a nosedive as his amount of stroke increased - his movies came out better when he was a relatively unproven talent with a whole lot of creativity and clear vision, so he was allowed to do his thing but not without limits, not without restrictions. Without free reign, you get Beetlejuice. With free reign, you get Alice in Wonderland. Go figure.

By: roger ackroyd

roger ackroyd — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:47:04 -0800

After one of the live Pee-Wee shows in 2010, Paul Reubens had a sit-down with the audience and mentioned that Pee-Wee's Big Adventure was greenlit without a director, and they still hadn't found one a week before shooting was to begin. Reubens found himself at a party with Shelley Duvall, who had just done the first Frankenweenie, and she said, "I know the perfect director." And that's how Tim Burton got his first feature.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:47:38 -0800

John August has the easist job in the world.

By: waraw

waraw — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:49:53 -0800

I liked Big Fish a lot, but I can be sentimental at times. Absolutely would put in money to a kick starter for a Burton-directed Buckaroo Banzai Vs The World Crime League.

By: Senor Cardgage

Senor Cardgage — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:49:55 -0800

His best work in the last 2 decades has been when he didnt "Burton" it. Ed Wood, Big Fish, half each of Mars Attacks and Sweeney Todd (the design and songs/mood respectively) Everything else has been "Hey what if Hot Topic made a $200 million dollar movie?" In a way, he's sort of like Rob Zombie in that you get the sense that he doesnt want to direct movies as much as he wants to art direct them

By: shakespeherian

shakespeherian — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:50:01 -0800

That whole article and not a single mention of how Danny Elfman has been using the same fucking score for every Burton film since Edward Scissorhands?

By: tommasz

tommasz — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:51:41 -0800

The few Goths and Goth-y people I know absolutely love every single one of Burton's movies. If there were more of them he'd have nothing to worry about, he could go on making his films and the money would come pouring in.

By: howfar

howfar — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:52:21 -0800

I just realised I called Ewan McGregor English. I better watch my language from now on or the Scotch will be out to get me...

By: shakespeherian

shakespeherian — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:53:43 -0800

Burton's two perfect films are Pee-Wee's Big Adventure and Ed Wood. Edward Scissorhands needs a 3rd act that isn't phoned in from an 80s skiing movie and it could be great too.

By: Senor Cardgage

Senor Cardgage — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:54:00 -0800

The few Goths and Goth-y people I know absolutely love every single one of Burton's movies. That people who identify themselves by an almost-entirely superficial and surface fetish love all of Burton's stuff is the best indictment of his body of work I can think of, actually.

By: Jilder

Jilder — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:54:47 -0800

Eh, I am a gothy person and his Alice and Wonka films are both utterly dreadful. No love here. YOU NEED TO DO MORE THAN PUT SWIRLS ON IT, DUDE.

By: roger ackroyd

roger ackroyd — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:55:48 -0800

*plays Everyday is Halloween at Senor Cardgage*

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:58:58 -0800

Tartakovsky directed a lot of the action on Iron Man 2, which still managed to be fairly dull.

By: thanotopsis

thanotopsis — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:01:03 -0800

The best thing about Alice in Wonderland is the main theme of the score, where the choir of girls sounds like it's saying my daughter's name. But, other than that, Nightmare is probably one of the best films ever made. It combines the love of family-driven holidays with foolishness, imagination and spectacle (along with some more catchy tunes). It appeals to every age, and is a treat every year to revisit around this time. I'm another one of those people that liked Big Fish, but I think it's more a factor of me being a sentimental fool who misses his father and grandfathers.

By: EmpressCallipygos

EmpressCallipygos — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:01:18 -0800

Part of me thinks Burton should direct a reboot of Buckaroo Banzai NOT WHILE I AM ALIVE TO STOP HIM, HE WON'T.

By: Jeff Mangum's Penny-farthing

Jeff Mangum's Penny-farthing — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:03:50 -0800

Grantland is supposed to be a sports site.

By: Malor

Malor — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:04:21 -0800

FAMOUS MONSTER: Without free reign, you get Beetlejuice. With free reign, you get Alice in Wonderland. Go figure. Probably worth pointing out that Beetlejuice made about $85 million, where Alice raked in over a billion dollars.

By: Slap*Happy

Slap*Happy — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:04:30 -0800

Yeah, Sweeney Todd was a high point, and Sleepy Hollow was entertaining.

By: boo_radley

boo_radley — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:05:00 -0800

pxe2000: "Part of me thinks Burton should direct a reboot of Buckaroo Banzai" I will punch you again and again and again</tina>

By: winna

winna — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:05:28 -0800

I just realised I called Ewan McGregor English. I better watch my language from now on or the Scotch will be out to get me... Surely it's Scots, my brohammer. The winn: saving folk from the wrath of dudes in skirts since 1977.

By: shakespeherian

shakespeherian — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:05:56 -0800

I briefly wondered whether I wrote this article in a fugue state but then I remembered that it has good things to say about Batman.

By: acb

acb — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:06:54 -0800

I think it's the innovator's dilemma, the same thing that killed Kodak and Microsoft. Tim Burton ended up dominating a lucrative segment of the market (in his case, the ooky-kooky-spooky candystripe goth aesthetic), and established himself in this lucrative franchise to the point where no studio would release funds for him to do anything that doesn't throw some spooky candy to his fans. So he climbed to a local maximum and ended up trapped there due to the short-term focus of commercial cinema.

By: hippybear

hippybear — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:08:00 -0800

I'm not much of a Christmas celebrator, but I've sworn for years that if I were, I'd take the time to make up a full tree's worth of Nightmare Before Christmas ornaments and would do a tree decorated in dark lights and black garland and all kinds of scary ornaments. It's the only way I could cope with it, I think. Anyway, Burton is a huge mixed bag, and his output has always drawn mixed reactions. I love some of his stuff, and loathe others of it. (And why have I thought all this time that Big Fish was directed by Terry Gilliam? That's one hell of a mix-up.) I'm still disappointed that Batman Returns didn't have Bruce Wayne having yet another psychotic breakdown where he places Catwoman and The Penguin as his parents' killer, making it clear that every villain he fights has taken the place of his parents' true killer in his brain and that is why he does what he does. That said, I think Batman Returns is the best of all the Batman movies. Yes, I just wrote that. Every new Burton film, I hope it will be great. And for decades now, I've been grossly disappointed. I think maybe he, like a lot of artists, does his most creative work when he has tight strictures around his budget and production capabilities. If you're forced to work around limitations, that's when you're most creative.

By: hippybear

hippybear — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:09:02 -0800

I better watch my language from now on or the Scotch will be out to get me... Surely it's Scots, my brohammer. I'd go with the scotch. Especially if it's a single malt.

By: HuronBob

HuronBob — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:09:58 -0800

I'll be the first to admit that I like nearly everything Burton has done... some more than others, but I've never walked away from a film saying "boy that was crap"... I could never be a film critic, I'm not critical enough.

By: acb

acb — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:10:08 -0800

In a way, he's sort of like Rob Zombie in that you get the sense that he doesnt want to direct movies as much as he wants to art direct them Or, indeed, Wes Anderson, who is the Urban Outfitters to Burton's Hot Topic.

By: Ghostride The Whip

Ghostride The Whip — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:11:58 -0800

Anyone who doesn't appreciate The Headless Horseman being Christopher Fucking Walken With A Shark's Mouth can just get right out. And considering the source material, Dark Shadows was pretty great. 60s Cult Low Budget Soap Opera isn't exactly Oscar material to begin with.

By: Bookhouse

Bookhouse — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:12:14 -0800

The movie Sweeney Todd is a crime against art. It is the sad record of a man too dependent on his usual actors to actually cast people who could sing as the leads in a great but difficult musical. Man, that movie pisses me off. Pee-Wee is pretty damn good though.

By: Senor Cardgage

Senor Cardgage — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:13:11 -0800

And considering the source material, Dark Shadows was pretty great. 60s Cult Low Budget Soap Opera isn't exactly Oscar material to begin with. Deciding to direct from a shoddy idea is still part of directing.

By: howfar

howfar — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:17:16 -0800

I just realised I called Ewan McGregor English. I better watch my language from now on or the Scotch will be out to get me... Surely it's Scots, my brohammer. Damn! I better not make any more mistakes or accidentally invoke any Scotland related clichés. I might end up getting battered to death.

By: justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow

justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:18:49 -0800

I better watch my language from now on or the Scotch will be out to get me... The scotch is not out to get you. Stop projecting. You are out to get the scotch. It's OK. We are all out to get the scotch.

By: Harvey Jerkwater

Harvey Jerkwater — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:18:57 -0800

I've been a Tim Burton badmouther for a very long time. With the exceptions of Pee-Wee's Big Adventure and Mars Attacks, which were both insane fun. I'm still pissed at the time and money lost to sitting through Big Fish.

By: Ice Cream Socialist

Ice Cream Socialist — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:20:44 -0800

a 3-D adaptation of Zeno's paradox with Depp as the voice of the arrow Did anyone else read this and then, through an obvious yet entirely unreasonable train of thought, imagine a Burton-directed film of Italo Svevo's Zeno's Conscience featuring Depp as Zeno Cosini, smoking last cigarette after last cigarette? Probably not.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:21:13 -0800

That whole article and not a single mention of how Danny Elfman has been using the same fucking score for every Burton film since Edward Scissorhands? Planet Of The Apes (HEY REMEMBER THAT?) had a surprisingly fun, percussion-based feel that actually felt like it belonged in the movie - Imperial Rome Goes To The Tiki Lounge kinda thing.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:22:20 -0800

Mars Attacks man what is UP with that movie? It's 8 different movies. I just want to follow Annette Bennings' character around, she is having so much FUN playing a Ditz.

By: zippy

zippy — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:22:41 -0800

Burton tends to do his best work when he's not allowed free reign over everything, and basically has someone to answer to and someone willing to meddle with the product. Like Islamic calligraphy, its beauty the creation of artists prohibited from drawing people, and Ren and Stimpy, its beauty the creation of Nickelodeon not allowing John K. to explore the full comic possibilities of explicit sexual desire between cat and dog.

By: The Card Cheat

The Card Cheat — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:26:50 -0800

Planet of the Apes was one of those Movies With Air Conditioning I went to see when/because I didn't have air conditioning, and...if I had it to do over again I'd stick with humidity that night. You can only stay angry at the weather for so long.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:28:15 -0800

Okay Just ...MARS ATTACKS. Bear with me now I like JUST saw it again: There isn't a single actor who is acting in the same movie as anyone else, although Brosnon seems to understand he's in a 50s SF parody does Doctor Science Lab Coat so well it's not even parody, he's just literally doing that and Benning as mentioned, is just acting pay above her pay grade for this material. There a reason why the phrase big budget Comdey is an oxymoron. What was with all the serious plot lines, why doesn't any scene add momentum, shouldn't people be more upset about the invasion, why does this feel like someone shot a whole bunch if scenes and then thrustit over to the editor to string them together? Also satires have to be ....specific to material and tone, not just ...things happening. It's actually good to mst3k riff too cause at least half the plot lines are taking themselves seriously enough that they're from this other movie about a boxer in Vegas hey wait why do the Vegas scenes exist at all this movie is constructed so weirdly. it's never parodic or zany enough to build any kind of momentum nore does it seem to have an actual satirical target just a vauge .....sense. It's a very werid and unsatisifying movie but man some of the performances are really TRYING SO HARD TO MAKE THIS WORK. That and while the movie really wants to be Gremlins 2 it has barley a fraction of the anarchic cartoon spirit and the design of the Martians is really off putting and ba. You're supposed to like the gleeful little monsters, but be repulsed by thier neck waddles. The scene everyone likes, the Martian Girl one? That was the only one that seemed to figure out what tone the movie was going for. Not a good tone, just any one tone rather than ALL OF THEM.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:28:35 -0800

Hey there Natalie Portman, you totally have lines! No character or plot, but you have lines! Just like, technical things, why is there a school white house tour the day after congress gets melted? Surely those two events should happen at the same time to increase the tension and get the feeling of lots of events happening at the same time in response to said alien invasion and for that matter why do these characters even exist?

By: The Card Cheat

The Card Cheat — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:32:04 -0800

> Probably worth pointing out that Beetlejuice made about $85 million, where Alice raked in over a billion dollars. Yeah, right now Burton is reading this essay and wiping away a small tear with a $100 bill. A tear of laughter.

By: shakespeherian

shakespeherian — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:33:10 -0800

Yeah, right now Burton is reading this essay and wiping away a small tear with a $100 bill. A tear of laughter. If money is the measure of artistic success I'd like to request a transfer.

By: Huck500

Huck500 — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:33:15 -0800

I'll be the first to admit that I like nearly everything Burton has done... some more than others, but I've never walked away from a film saying "boy that was crap"... I tend to agree, but Alice in Wonderland was absolute crap and that last scene of Depp breakdancing just about made my head explode.

By: The Card Cheat

The Card Cheat — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:33:40 -0800

> If money is the measure of artistic success I'd like to request a transfer. In Hollywood, it is.

By: Senor Cardgage

Senor Cardgage — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:33:48 -0800

The Whelk nails it. Mars Attack resonates with a certain kind of movie lover because its a big grab bag of Burton's pet enthusiasms. If you share those enthusiasms, then you engage with it because its a great big toy box for you to get lost in. Again though I have to compare it to Rob Zombie's work. Its great that he loves Rat Fink and Famous Monsters and 70s slasher flicks and Skynrd. I like those things too, but thats not the same thing as telling a story.

By: griphus

griphus — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:34:07 -0800

I don't think any other director has ever, or will ever again, make me say "wait, that was Crispin Glover?"

By: ennui.bz

ennui.bz — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:34:50 -0800

tartakovsky is tarkovsky tarted up?

By: griphus

griphus — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:35:57 -0800

Well, shit, now I want to watch both Tarkovsky's and Tartakovsky's ouvres and compare them.

By: shakespeherian

shakespeherian — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:37:00 -0800

I don't think any other director has ever, or will ever again, make me say "wait, that was Crispin Glover?" I'M MAKING MY LUNCH

By: Greg Nog

Greg Nog — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:39:50 -0800

Genndy Tartakovsky's Solaris has a cool badass warrior just SLICING through the planet with a big ol' lightsaber

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:42:48 -0800

Tarkovsky's Iron Man is 4 hours long. He never puts the suit on.

By: roger ackroyd

roger ackroyd — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:45:15 -0800

The secret to enjoying MARS ATTACKS is that you're not actually supposed to watch it one sitting. You're supposed to put in on a loop and go about your business, cackling delightedly when you happen to catch FLOTUS Glenn Close getting taken out by a chandelier.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 12:47:12 -0800

Why doesn't she get a Raygun!? C'mon it writes itself! "THAT! *zap!* BELONGED! *zap* TO LADYBIRD! *zap, explosion* JOHNSON! *kicks alien dome head open*

By: tkappleton

tkappleton — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:02:54 -0800

the Dada moment where Keaton's uncouth bio-exorcist supernaturally weaponizes Harry Belafonte's "Day-O" and a table full of shrimp cocktails" Am I the only one who watched Beetlejuice so much that I am offended that this is credited to Keaton's character and not to Davis and Baldwin as it should be?

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:04:58 -0800

I love how Beetlejuice can be summed up as YUPPIES ATTACK VERMONT. Genna Davis! You used to be in things but now you're not in things anymore. What gives? Lydia, you're a flake.

By: ShutterBun

ShutterBun — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:16:08 -0800

I miss the days when Burton's work was good enough to have been considered a "mixed bag." It's been almost 20 freakin' years since his last good idea. Alice's box office is being offered as some kind of defense/justification of Burton here. It's a G-rated IMAX movie based on a hugely popular story that earned 2/3rds of its money due to international popularity. Burton's fingerprints are certainly all over it, but I doubt its monetary success can be accredited to him in any meaningful way, other than maybe "chose marketable art directors." Domestically, Alice beat Beetlejuice by (only) about a factor of 4, despite the monetary advantages being rated G, and selling tickets that undoubtedly cost at least 3x what a movie ticket cost in 1988. Combine that with vastly different production and marketing budgets, and Beetlejuice is really the stronger performer, I'd say.

By: Kitty Stardust

Kitty Stardust — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:17:04 -0800

As a founding member of Goths Against Burton, I must say I enjoyed the article. Was it just me, though, or did it totally lack a conclusion?

By: ShutterBun

ShutterBun — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:19:09 -0800

Agree 100% Kitty. It just kinda "ended" like a capsulized movie review.

By: The Tensor

The Tensor — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:21:14 -0800

"He's only like the next Martin Scoreseez."

By: ShutterBun

ShutterBun — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:22:44 -0800

Correction: Alice is actually PG, though certainly more "family friendly" than Beetlejuice.

By: sendai sleep master

sendai sleep master — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:24:10 -0800

Ok, I'm in no way making an equivocal statement (am I?) but I think of Burton's squandered potential the way I think of actual, real, man made tragedies. I long for answers but know none will come. Perhaps a man who insists on thinking of himself as Mr. Outsider while simultaneously making films that do nothing but reinforce existing boundaries is simply part of the human condition. This is all far too trivial for me to suggest beer as alternative course of action BUT, who wants a cold one?

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:26:37 -0800

Correction: Alice is actually PG, though certainly more "family friendly" than Beetlejuice. Except for the part where she goes and takes part in the OPIUM WARS.

By: CBrachyrhynchos

CBrachyrhynchos — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:32:47 -0800

You can get video of a Lansbury/Hearn performance of Sweeney on DVD. Although Burton's movie did give me a soft spot for Sascha Baron Cohen as a supporting actor with the potential to elevate otherwise weak movies. One of the reason that Burton's adaptations don't work for me lately is that he keeps adding family dynamics that seem to misunderstand the narratives he's adapting. Charlie is a fairy story in which five children and their parental figures are tested in a series of moral parables. There's really no need to humanize Wonka in terms of a distant father, and Burton's approach undermines the rest of the narrative. Alice is a story about a common-sense Victorian girl making her way through worlds of absurdity. Burton's Wonderland is narratively sensible, has Alice going native, and ties it all into an absent father. Sleepy Hollow suffers a bit in that there's not much to start with, so it becomes a rambling Scooby Doo plot, but with a real horseman. I'm mildly skeptical of Frankenweenie because it was a great little 30-minute film. Burton's family dynamics work better in Big Fish and Corpse Bride. And then there's Sweeney, where the Sondheim script gives Burton both absent and abusive father figures. Sweeney is arguably not that bad because Burton doesn't tinker that much with Sondheim's tragedy. And even with less capable voices, Sondheim's ability to develop conflict in multi-part harmony is spine-tingling.

By: jalexei

jalexei — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:36:50 -0800

(And why have I thought all this time that Big Fish was directed by Terry Gilliam? That's one hell of a mix-up.) Guessing you're thinking of The Fisher King, about which I'd try make an insightful and/or relevant comment connecting the two directors but I think I was on mushrooms when I saw it.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:37:00 -0800

Sleepy Hollow works cause it's a Hammer Horror movie, all gore and mood and SUDDEN LAST SECOND REVEALS Seriously, the villain speech at the end just keeps getting bigger and grander and daring you to find it silly. Sleep Hollow has juuuuust the right amount of camp to spin it out into orbit.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:41:49 -0800

And Sweeny Todd only works at all cause of the strength of Sodhiem's book but I cannot forgive them for turning THIS into THIS. It just feels like he was given a contract to do ten movies based on a list of existing properties owned by the studio and decided to just hang out with his friends and new wife.

By: shakespeherian

shakespeherian — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:45:35 -0800

I would be more open to arguments that Sleepy Hollow works if I could remember a damn thing about it even though I've seen it three times.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:47:56 -0800

Chirstopher Walken has shark teeth that is all you need to know

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:49:06 -0800

also Miranda Richardson putting all the scenery in her mouth.

By: shakespeherian

shakespeherian — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:54:36 -0800

The real question is how did Burton make something like that so forgettable?

By: FatherDagon

FatherDagon — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:57:33 -0800

The only good part about Sleepy Hollow is how it totally avoids either A) foreshadowing or B) explaining afterwards the grain mill explosion AT ALL. For folks who didn't already know about grain mills exploding with little provocation, it looks like total Hollywood loonypants action FX for no reason, when it's actually one of the only semi-realistic things to happen in the entire movie.

By: memebake

memebake — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 14:01:31 -0800

Q: What does Tim Burton put in his sandwiches? A: ɹǝʇɹɐɔ-ɯɐɥuoq ɐuǝןǝɥ puɐ ddǝp ʎuuɥoظ

By: ThatFuzzyBastard

ThatFuzzyBastard — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 14:15:35 -0800

Burton is a terrific production designer, a sharp producer, a terrible writer, and a bad director. Hence the success of Nightmare Before Christmas, where he only did the job he was good at.

By: mrgrimm

mrgrimm — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 14:29:11 -0800

I liked Mars Attacks a lot too. To me, Big Fish was the start of the slide. I haven't really liked anything since, tho Dark Shadows actually looks pretty good. Willy Wonka, Sweeney Tood, and Alice are all pretty horrible, imo.

By: mrgrimm

mrgrimm — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 14:36:30 -0800

Genna Davis! You used to be in things but now you're not in things anymore. What gives? In case you haven't noticed, that tends to happen to female actors when they hit 40, which would be around ... 1996. Yep. (I think she did have a TV series about a female president which lasted a little while.) related: Geena Davis Institute on Gender in Media * Males outnumber females 3 to 1 in family films. In contrast, females comprise just over 50% of the population in the United States. Even more staggering is the fact that this ratio, as seen in family films, is the same as it was in 1946. * Females are almost four times as likely as males to be shown in sexy attire. Further, females are nearly twice as likely as males to be shown with a diminutive waistline. Generally unrealistic figures are more likely to be seen on females than males. * Females are also underrepresented behind the camera. Across 1,565 content creators, only 7% of directors, 13% of writers, and 20% of producers are female. This translates to 4.8 males working behind-the-scenes to every one female. * From 2006 to 2009, not one female character was depicted in G-rated family films in the field of medical science, as a business leader, in law, or politics. In these films, 80.5% of all working characters are male and 19.5% are female, which is a contrast to real world statistics, where women comprise 50% of the workforce. Go on, Geena.

By: You Should See the Other Guy

You Should See the Other Guy — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 15:07:05 -0800

I love when he makes movies with Jon August as the writer (Big Fish, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Dark Shadows, Frankenweenie) and / or Johnny Depp because they're all so terrible I can kill multiple birds with one ain't-gonna-see-it stone. Terrible, terrible storytellers, the lot of them.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 15:09:01 -0800

Go is good.

By: davidjmcgee

davidjmcgee — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 15:27:21 -0800

Like... the movie Go? With Sarah Polley and Katie Holmes?

By: sendai sleep master

sendai sleep master — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 15:29:44 -0800

Sometimes when there's a big hubbub on The BLue about some pop culture thing or another I like to swing by some place like Google News to see how the rest of the world is taking siad pop-culture topic. I swung by Google News out of habit and I'll tell you, I was might disappointed not to see any Johnny Depp headline and especially not one that read "World Comes to Its Senses Realizes Limited Character Actor Given Too Much Credit."

By: Countess Elena

Countess Elena — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 15:30:27 -0800

Sleepy Hollow features my favorite on-screen kiss of all time, so there's that at least. I seem to be one of the few people who really liked Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. It was certainly a much better film of the book than the first one was, and I couldn't get enough of a couple of Danny Elfman's settings. (Also, Deep Roy was quietly hysterical.) But then, Danny Elfman can do very little wrong by me. Sweeney Todd was awful to me, though, as a Sondheim fan. I like Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham Carter just fine, but those were not their parts. They were created for big, beefy, choleric Len Cariou and Angela Lansbury.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 15:31:25 -0800

Yeah the movie Go, with Katie Holmes and The Guy Who Isn't Nicholas Brendon.

By: Marisa Stole the Precious Thing

Marisa Stole the Precious Thing — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 16:21:31 -0800

Go was fine until the Champagne Room arc. I wanted more ravers in existential crisis, less Bros Gone Wild.

By: Senor Cardgage

Senor Cardgage — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 16:35:24 -0800

I love Go yet have no idea why were talking about it here.

By: Green With You

Green With You — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 16:39:59 -0800

I love Go yet have no idea why were talking about it here. posted by Senor Cardgage at 6:35 PM on October 5 [+] [!] John August wrote Go. So when You Should See the Other Guy wrote: I love when he makes movies with Jon August as the writer (Big Fish, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Dark Shadows, Frankenweenie) and / or Johnny Depp because they're all so terrible I can kill multiple birds with one ain't-gonna-see-it stone. Which must be why The Whelk wrote: Go is good. posted by The Whelk at 5:09 PM on October 5 [+] [!]

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 16:42:22 -0800

Hey now it's not just confused ravers, it's also got Gay Actor Revenge.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 16:45:58 -0800

Also, RE: Geena Davis, THIS didn't help. if I could just make an FPP out of a movie's Trivia section I would.

By: the sobsister

the sobsister — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 16:57:25 -0800

I tend to agree, but Alice in Wonderland was absolute crap and that last scene of Depp breakdancing just about made my head explode. Oh, God, this x a billion. I sat through that monstrosity, made all the more vivid in 3$$D, growing more and more and more upset at the skullfucking Tim Burton was giving poor Mr. Dodgson and then...the breakdancing. Rwandan genocide, two terms for Ronald Reagan--if there's anything that's ever made me lose my faith in humanity, it's that half the world seems to have shelled out cash money to see that piece of crap. And Pee Wee's Big Adventure, Batman Returns and Beetlejuice are among my favorite, rewatchable films of their era.

By: philip-random

philip-random — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 17:01:05 -0800

The Whelk, I agree with everything you say about Mars Attacks ... and yet, unlike most of Burton's stuff, I found the sloppy anarchy of it all actually works. And in a cumulative way. About a third of the way in, I was shaking my head thinking of all the better things I could do with the next hour of my life, but by the time it was done, I was laughing that same head off. Slim Whitman and Tom Jones felt particularly relevant.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 17:03:32 -0800

Well unlike most of Burton's recent fare, it's not drop dead boring, it's just completely baffling.

By: Marisa Stole the Precious Thing

Marisa Stole the Precious Thing — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 17:16:28 -0800

Hey now it's not just confused ravers, it's also got Gay Actor Revenge. Oh yes! I nearly forgot about the Awkward Dinner sequence. That scene was pure gold.

By: RobotHero

RobotHero — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 17:24:04 -0800

I read a "how directors work" article, and I read that Tim Burton doesn't like to storyboard. It initially surprised me. I would have expected someone coming from an animation background would be all up in that, but on second thought, his stuff feels in some way I can't quite put my finger on like it wasn't planned out in advance. The same article said that Martin Scorsese loves to draw his own storyboards, which also makes sense once you know it.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 17:27:37 -0800

People who don't storyboard are worse than Hitler.

By: RobotHero

RobotHero — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 18:32:48 -0800

I do kind of want to visit the parallel universe where they made the Tim Burton Superman with Nicolas Cage in a glowing suit. Because what the hell is that.

By: RobotHero

RobotHero — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 18:50:34 -0800

I'm not saying storyboarded movies are inherently better, but they have a different feel to them. Fill in the gaps with Wes Anderson or Christopher Nolan, you will be not the least bit surprised: "_______ has stated that generally the only story-boarding he does is for action sequences." "Though ______ creates detailed storyboards for each scene, the shoot had its moments of improvisation."

By: kirkaracha

kirkaracha — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 19:00:50 -0800

Okay Just ...MARS ATTACKS. Bear with me now I like JUST saw it again Ack! Ack ack! Ack! Ack ack ack! Ack ack!

By: Kitty Stardust

Kitty Stardust — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 19:16:15 -0800

Tim Burton's "Cathy" starring Helena Bonham Carter.

By: Diablevert

Diablevert — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 19:38:05 -0800

I honestly think that Burton's utter dependence on Depp and Helena Bonham-Carter is also really limiting the quality of his work. They are good actors at times but I think their relationship with Burton basically enable them to completely phone performances in. There's a meme for that. Which I saw only just this week; i seem to be having a bit of a Baeder-Meinhoff-y "What the fuck happenned to Tim Burton?" moment. Pee-Wee's Big Adventure, though. Man. That movie makes me wish I had kids so i could inflict it on them.

By: panaceanot

panaceanot — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 20:07:49 -0800

I'm surprised by the fact I seem to have watched nearly all his films (except Planets, Mars and Alice), and even more so that I saw them in a cinema. And yet I'm with the people saying they can't remember what any of them were about, save for a minor detail! Scissorhands... Depp had scissors for hands. Big Fish... Ewan McGregor was in it. Sleepy Hollow... Depp rode a horse. Nightmare... Swirls. Wonka... Why??

By: newdaddy

newdaddy — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 20:37:35 -0800

I just realised I called Ewan McGregor English. I better watch my language from now on or the Scotch will be out to get me... posted by howfar at 11:52 AM on 10/5 It's a drink, man! Scotch is a drink!

By: Slap*Happy

Slap*Happy — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 20:44:15 -0800

OK, since this is clearly astroturf, I bit, and went and rented the oh-so-conveniently-available-today Dark Shadows. '70s pastiche mixed haphazardly with Regency romance pastiche mixed haphazardly with Gothic Horror pastiche mixed haphazardly with blatantly '90s CGI pastiche shoe-horned into a rom-com. He does this to fuck with you. You're too busy laughing at the tropes to realize you're creeped the fuck out by very large portions of this, are immediately sucked into the action-adventure parts, and spit out again into the soul-destroying horror, which is leavened ruthlessly with absurdist references to how bad the actual Dark Shadows was. Of course there's a werewolf. And a banshee. And, horribly, one curse traded for another, with the protagonist deluding himself into believing this was the happy ending he sought, the denouement he needed, and then it's explicitly denied him... Tim Burton is finding his way, groping and feeling the path to something larger and more terrible. (No, Frankenweenie probably isn't it.) Despite the hurf-turf-Burton-viewing leveraged here on the pepsi-blue. I'm kind of curious to see where he goes next. Or how we deal with actor/director FPP's that happen to fall on the release date of both a cinematic and rental release.

By: Marisa Stole the Precious Thing

Marisa Stole the Precious Thing — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 20:45:37 -0800

Ah dammit that article reminded me of Depp's dance sequence at the end of Alice. That was astonishingly bad.

By: the noob

the noob — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 20:47:18 -0800

English. I better watch my language from now on or the Scotch will be out to get me... Perhaps this Scot will be out to get you, perhaps after I down this scotch.

By: newdaddy

newdaddy — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 20:50:44 -0800

The thing is, Tim Burton stopped suffering decades ago. He can wear as much black as he wants, but he is married to Helena Bonham freaking Carter for Chrissakes. The movies you most love of his correspond to his divorce, his being single (again) and the death of his father. Everyone knows you have to suffer to make Art. Having said that, I'm glad he's more-or-less happy now. Thanks Tim, if you're reading this, for all of what you did. You know, you don't have to keep doing something just because it makes a lot of money. If you wanted to just paint or make comix or talk idly into a tape recorder while staring at the sea for a while, well, we would all understand.

By: eviemath

eviemath — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 21:06:19 -0800

So... I guess I'm the only one here who thinks that Big Fish was amazing, one of Burton's best films?

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 21:09:04 -0800

I didn't like the parts where I couldn't just pass the time by staring at Ewan's face so........ ED WOOD is his best movie, in that it's not just clever or amusing, it's actually kind of profound and sad and touching and wonderful.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 21:10:19 -0800

And it totally flopped so I guess the lesson was learned, swirly stripes and breakdancing!

By: philip-random

philip-random — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 21:36:13 -0800

People who don't storyboard are worse than Hitler. Well, Hitler was big on preparedness.

By: Conrad-Casserole

Conrad-Casserole — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 21:59:54 -0800

finally! my favorite put-down is to say that Frank Gehry is the Tim Burton of architecture. the reverse is equally true. fatuous is an apt term. the saddest part is that he made so many great movies. fucking Cabin Boy?!?! i had no idea he made that. but still, when all your later work is just a pastiche of your own prior achievements is pretty lame. i feel like he imagined himself as an auteur far before he developed a real style. he has stylization down pat, but there's a huge difference between caricature and character. he's never taken any real risks with what he does. an i don't think it has anything to do with the times catching up with his aesthetic. it's more a matter of him retreating into a formulaic version of himself. Steven Spielberg is a perfect example of this.

By: 7segment

7segment — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 22:09:40 -0800

@clastowka: "Ack!" "Ack!" "Ack, ack!" "Ackackackack Ack!" "Ack! Ack! ACK!!!" -Cathy and Bill the Cat, doing it

By: shakespeherian

shakespeherian — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 22:20:42 -0800

The thing is, Tim Burton stopped suffering decades ago. He can wear as much black as he wants, but he is married to Helena Bonham freaking Carter for Chrissakes. I'm disturbed by this recurring notion that being married to someone whom strangers find sexually desirable obviates any problems one might have.

By: nushustu

nushustu — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 22:23:39 -0800

I'm with The Whelk. The last good movie Burton made was his best: Ed Wood is easily his masterpiece. It stands head and shoulders above everything else he's done. It's his only adult work.

By: amuseDetachment

amuseDetachment — Fri, 05 Oct 2012 23:34:21 -0800

Tim Burton's Secret Formula

By: mannequito

mannequito — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 00:46:02 -0800

Wait, was the quote about wearing black and being married to Helena Bonham Carter a sexual thing, or a sarcastic "oh, that'd be painful" thing? Honest question, I don't know much about her other than a couple movies like Big Fish and Fight Club; she's very pretty but no more so than any actress in a hollywood movie, to me anyways.

By: Kevin Street

Kevin Street — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 01:06:14 -0800

"You're too busy laughing at the tropes to realize you're creeped the fuck out by very large portions of this, are immediately sucked into the action-adventure parts, and spit out again into the soul-destroying horror, which is leavened ruthlessly with absurdist references to how bad the actual Dark Shadows was." Yes, exactly. I couldn't get over how evil Barnabas was, and how the town would have been better off if he'd just stayed in the ground. Until the climax I was pretty much rooting for Eva Green's character to win. Angelique was also evil, but at least she seemed to limit her despicable deeds to one family.

By: newdaddy

newdaddy — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 04:17:58 -0800

I'm disturbed by this recurring notion that being married to someone whom strangers find sexually desirable obviates any problems one might have. That's a good objection, and I admit that there's a lot of bald assumptions I meant to shorthand in one flip statement there. What I should have said instead is something like I don't really know anything about Tim's actual internal mental state, but just on the surface, he seems to be in a stable marriage, to someone else who seems successful, intelligent and yes attractive, he's got kids, money isn't an issue for him anymore, and he has a lot more creative freedom now. I'm betting he's happier now than during those days drawing foxes for Disney. While you never quite escape your own internal rain cloud, if you have something like that, in Tim's case it's more of a badge or signifier than something he's actively wrestling against (again my conjecture). He knows what it's like, to wander around suburbia with his hands the pockets of his beat-up trench coat, watching everything from a distance, socially an outcast or a cypher but filled to bursting inside with his own gigantic unfulfilled vision. He knows what it's like but it's not like he's actually doing those things right now. He's probably making a salad, or checking his kids' homework, things like that. Life, basically, is a big distraction from the bummer you were working on throughout your youth. (Yes I'm probably projecting here but it seems like the obvious answer to me.)

By: hippybear

hippybear — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 05:18:47 -0800

(And why have I thought all this time that Big Fish was directed by Terry Gilliam? That's one hell of a mix-up.) Guessing you're thinking of The Fisher King, Dear god no! The Fisher King is one of my Almighty Sacred Movies, which can inspire me to deep emotional reaction if I allow myself to sink into it fully without distraction or interruption. (Close Encounters Of The Third Kind is like this for me too... and as with all my ASMs, if there's any slight interruption of the spell, I might as well quit watching because I won't get the catharsis I'm seeking.) So... I guess I'm the only one here who thinks that Big Fish was amazing, one of Burton's best films? When I thought Big Fish was a Gilliam movie, I thought it wasn't bad. But as part of the Burton oeuvre, it's terrible. It's entirely possible that I've gotten Big Fish mixed up with Tideland in my mind, despite having seen both movies. I've simply attributed them both to Gilliam, which of course a huge mistake.

By: kyrademon

kyrademon — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 05:40:15 -0800

> "The few Goths and Goth-y people I know absolutely love every single one of Burton's movies." Eh. I'm about as Gothy as they come, and it's been a looooooong time since I got super-excited by the prospect of a new Tim Burton movie.

By: sneebler

sneebler — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 07:58:09 -0800

Metafilter: I long for answers but know none will come.

By: Artw

Artw — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 08:38:05 -0800

Ed Wood is, of course, his masterpiece and difficult to top. I don't buy the argument that that's a hard cutoff point and Mars Attacks!, a perfectly fun movie that it is a different sort of thing, has to be a piece of crap because of that. I think The stupid Superman movie as the film that broke him makes a kind of sense - it seems like a soul sucking monstrous pile of stupidity - but then you have to ignore Sleepy Hollow. But If you say that was the last hurrah of the old Burton and Planet of the Apes was the first work of soul-dead Burton that makes a kind of sense. On the other hand I did rather enjoy Sweeny Todd, and isnt The Corpse Bride supposed to be good? And I have seen the Batman movies recently and they are not aging gracefully... Maybe this whole good Burton/bad Burton cut-off point thing is actually a bit ill founded? I'd actually say its more a case of an uneven director whose bumpier works still received a lot of goodwill until they didn't.

By: kyrademon

kyrademon — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 09:25:24 -0800

> "I'd actually say its more a case of an uneven director whose bumpier works still received a lot of goodwill until they didn't." I pretty much agree, with the note that he's recently had more misses than hits and he used to have more hits than misses, which may be a trend or may not be. But he's certainly no M. Night "my career is secretly a performance art experiment to prove that I can make every film exactly half as good as the previous film I made forever" Shyamalan. He's more a Woody "yes I used to be better but I can still make Vicky Cristina Barcelona when I'm on my A-game" Allen type.

By: Artw

Artw — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 09:48:37 -0800

Yeah, that seems about right. Could be worse. Could be Kevin Smith.

By: Marisa Stole the Precious Thing

Marisa Stole the Precious Thing — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 09:54:31 -0800

Could be worse. Could be Kevin Smith. Smith, like Burton, as at his best when he's being true to himself. For Burton this might be exploring the macabre (in the sense of up-ending audience expectations in a disturbing but entertaining way), while for Smith, it's hypernerdism. For this reason, I think Jay And Silent Bob Strike Back was Smith's masterpiece. His attempts at having a "message" comes across as wooden and clunky.

By: davidjmcgee

davidjmcgee — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 10:07:57 -0800

every film exactly half as good as the previous film EXCEPT FOR UNBREAKABLE YOU MEAN.

By: Marisa Stole the Precious Thing

Marisa Stole the Precious Thing — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 10:09:11 -0800

Unbreakable would have been a million times better if they didn't cast Perpetually Weepy Child.

By: zippy

zippy — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 12:47:24 -0800

Part of me thinks Burton should direct a reboot of Buckaroo Banzai Helena Bonham Carter as Goth Buckaroo. Johnny Depp, with a giant padded ass, as Buckaroo's comedic foil, John Bigbootee. NO ONE SHOW THIS TO TIM BURTON EVER!

By: howfar

howfar — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 12:52:20 -0800

Could be worse. Could be Kevin Smith. This statement, being analytically true in all cases, never needs to be made. It certainly never needs to be discussed on Metafilter again. Or at least not this year.

By: philip-random

philip-random — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 13:12:55 -0800

you might as well say ... METAFILTER: Could be worse. Could be Kevin Smith.

By: EmpressCallipygos

EmpressCallipygos — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 15:18:50 -0800

Helena Bonham Carter as Goth Buckaroo. Johnny Depp, with a giant padded ass, as Buckaroo's comedic foil, John Bigbootee. Dude, don't MAKE me fly out there and hurt you.

By: davidjmcgee

davidjmcgee — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 15:20:13 -0800

Unbreakable would have been a million times better if they didn't cast Perpetually Weepy Child. I totally agree, but even so I think it's his best movie by far.

By: stephennelson

stephennelson — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 16:08:04 -0800

I weep for the loss of that stillborn Superman movie. If I win the lottery I'm going to pay whatever it costs to get it filmed. IMAGINE PRESENT DAY CAGE IN THAT SUIT.

By: Uther Bentrazor

Uther Bentrazor — Sun, 07 Oct 2012 11:06:03 -0800

Unbreakable would have been a million times better if they didn't cast Perpetually Weepy Child. No no, Zooey Deschanel was in "The Happening".

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Sun, 07 Oct 2012 22:46:35 -0800

I just re-watched Ed Wood. It is damned good.

By: Artw

Artw — Sun, 07 Oct 2012 22:48:26 -0800

Unbreakable is a good build up to a movie that happens in title cards at the end.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Sun, 07 Oct 2012 22:51:10 -0800

"I'm just a really big big fan I've seen all your movies" "EGH!"

By: Artw

Artw — Sun, 07 Oct 2012 22:54:26 -0800

In its own goofy way it's a hugely inspirational movie. Go make a thing! Doesn't matter if anyone else likes it, just make it, any way you can!

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Sun, 07 Oct 2012 22:56:38 -0800

"that seems entirely reasonable for an entire motion picture!"

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Sun, 07 Oct 2012 22:59:01 -0800

"this is all very interesting do you think it might be possible for me to play one of these parts"

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Sun, 07 Oct 2012 23:01:39 -0800

"this new one is going to be a million times better!" "Is that possible?" Ed Wood is a burlesque of optimism.

By: Artw

Artw — Sun, 07 Oct 2012 23:11:35 -0800

I love it.

By: DU

DU — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 05:12:04 -0800

I must be the only person who vastly prefers the new Wonka (except for the dentist parts). The songs are better and I'm not such a huge fan of chicken decapitation, especially in children's movies.

By: Artw

Artw — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 06:12:35 -0800

I'm going to have to ask you to step on this bad egg detector.

By: shakespeherian

shakespeherian — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 06:27:54 -0800

Cheer up, Charlie.

By: Artw

Artw — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 06:36:04 -0800

We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.

By: shakespeherian

shakespeherian — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 07:04:55 -0800

Come with me and you'll be in a world of pure imagination.

By: mrgrimm

mrgrimm — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 07:46:57 -0800

I must be the only person who vastly prefers the new Wonka I'm pretty sure you are. I was probably one of many of you disappointed he didn't go for (or get a green light for) Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator. Why not make a cool sequel instead of a boring rehash? Plus, Vermicious Knids!

By: DU

DU — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 08:52:34 -0800

Elevator would probably make a great movie because the book was awful. Everyone spends the entire time shouting. Seriously, try reading it aloud and you'll find you gave yourself a headache. I almost stopped reading it to the kids over that.

By: mrgrimm

mrgrimm — Tue, 09 Oct 2012 11:07:39 -0800

Seriously, try reading it aloud and you'll find you gave yourself a headache. Heh, it's waiting for me on hold at the library. I just finished C&tCC with my 3 y.o. who seemed to dig it (and sat still for the whole thing), so I figured we'd keep it rolling. I do remember it being a really odd book, now that you mention it. Lots of nonsense. Maybe I should have gone for Stuart Little ... (she's made it through Mouse and the Motorcycle too ...)