Comments on: New Zealand loves its "precious"

New Zealand loves its "precious"

reenum — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:34:20 -0800

In anticipation of "The Hobbit" movie, New Zealand has issued "Lord of the Rings" themed coins that are legal tender.

By: Egg Shen

Egg Shen — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:37:09 -0800

I own all three LotR movies in both their theatrical and extended cuts and I still can't work up the slightest bit of enthusiasm for The Hobbit. I didn't see The Lovely Bones and it sounds like it was a bad idea in the first place, but I feel bad that Peter Jackson has beaten a retreat like this.

By: Bwithh

Bwithh — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:38:18 -0800

that filmdrunk/uproxx article in the third link is mean.

By: zippy

zippy — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:40:40 -0800

The metal used ... is it precious?

By: edgeways

edgeways — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:40:58 -0800

Only thing I can think of is they are going to make a metric shitton of money off of this. I'd be surprised if any of this actually makes it into circulation. ...is mean. Mean to the point of kinda wanting to kick the fella in the nuts.

By: brennen

brennen — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:42:28 -0800

that filmdrunk/uproxx article in the third link is mean. I would have said "stupid". "Sheep King of Christchurch". Ha, ha. Look at how sophisticated we are. Is the author a particularly dim-witted 12 year old? Kansas doesn't take this level of shit.

By: Artw

Artw — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:45:19 -0800

Not nearly as exciting as the Lego. Still, I couldn't help having my hopes raised by the last trailer I saw, even if it is going to be too Lord of the Ringsy for my tastes.

By: Brocktoon

Brocktoon — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:46:37 -0800

I'm excited, stop trying to bring me down.

By: R. Schlock

R. Schlock — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:48:11 -0800

I can't help but think that they've missed an opportunity here.

By: zippy

zippy — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:52:21 -0800

Kansas doesn't take this level of shit. Did Blazing Saddles not play in Kansas City?

By: Artw

Artw — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:53:12 -0800

Doesn't Tolkien have some kind of magic wayfinding pebbles? They should sell those.

By: fullerine

fullerine — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:53:47 -0800

Mean and stupid with unfunny jokes about New Zealand. I wonder where that writer is from.

By: Shadax

Shadax — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:54:01 -0800

Kansas doesn't take this level of shit. Somewhat related: Last summer I was driving through the Kansas turnpike, and I noticed that the Kansas travel centers were lousy with Superman and Wizard of Oz merchandise. The two biggest pop culture draws for Kansas were both stories of how people escaped the state. But on topic, that uproxx article is some incredibly obnoxious invective. How people can muster up the hatred that I would reserve for, say, racism towards a nation they will never visit in their short sad lives is beyond me.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:54:26 -0800

To further increase tourism dollars New Zealand has announced a bold new Dragon breeding program for limited release into the wild.

By: Artw

Artw — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:54:33 -0800

Kansas doesn't take this level of shit. It could be worse, could be South Africa, which now seems to have established itself as cinematic shorthand for hell on earth.

By: brennen

brennen — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 11:59:36 -0800

The two biggest pop culture draws for Kansas were both stories of how people escaped the state. Believe me when I tell you this is not lost on the natives.

By: charlie don't surf

charlie don't surf — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 12:09:57 -0800

How people can muster up the hatred that I would reserve for, say, racism towards a nation they will never visit in their short sad lives is beyond me. Kiwis aren't a separate race.

By: Malor

Malor — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 12:11:29 -0800

Artw: Doesn't Tolkien have some kind of magic wayfinding pebbles? They should sell those. Perhaps you're confusing Tolkien with Brooks' Shannara? That sounds like the Elfstones.

By: jscott

jscott — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 12:19:44 -0800

The Lovely Bones was an oscar-nominated feature that took on an unusual, difficult subject and won a lot of other awards along the way. How it stands in Peter Jackson's resume will remain to be seen, but one's "lack of enthusiasm" for a trilogy of movies is not really a meaty discussion if one is willing to trash/dismiss a film one didn't even see.

By: New England Cultist

New England Cultist — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 12:22:54 -0800

I wonder where that writer is from. He's American, of course, from California. And apparently, a "comedian" who also writes for Maxim. Explains it.

By: Brocktoon

Brocktoon — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 12:23:02 -0800

Gandalf didn't have magic rocks. You're thinking of Joseph Smith.

By: Jehan

Jehan — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 12:23:22 -0800

The rune writing on the coins is, "ᛗᛁᛞᛞᛚᛖ ᛖᚫᚱᚦ - ᚾᛖᚹ ᛣᛖᚫᛚᚫᚾᛞ", but that's only a simple transliteration following spelling, and says something like "mid-dleh e-arth - new ke-aland". A proper transcription following pronunciation would be something like, "ᛗᛁᛞᛖᛚ ᛖᚱᚦ - ᚾᚢ ᛋᛁᛚᚫᚾᛞ", or "mid-el erth - noo seeland". Did they just get a Futhorc font* and type the text in? So shoddy. *Actually, if kalk was used for "z", then it's most likely yr mapped to the "z" key on some Younger Futhark font. But then mann is present and not maðr, so maybe not.

By: New England Cultist

New England Cultist — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 12:27:11 -0800

Well, "see" is Afrikaans for "sea", which itself is derived from the Dutch "zee".

By: Infinite Jest

Infinite Jest — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 12:27:17 -0800

Kiwis aren't a separate race. Kia ora koutou Ko Infinite Jest ahau Ko Kaukau te maunga Ko Ngai Tahu me Pakeha te iwi ;-)

By: blue_beetle

blue_beetle — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 12:30:57 -0800

They not "Lord of the Rings" themed, they're "The Hobbit" themed.

By: Artw

Artw — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 12:38:50 -0800

FWIW I thought the book The Lovely Bones was pretty awful Five People You Meet in Heaven level stuff to begin with.

By: Parasite Unseen

Parasite Unseen — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 12:39:08 -0800

My only regret is that I will most likely not live long enough to see the day when these things confuse the living fuck out of future archeologists.

By: adamdschneider

adamdschneider — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 13:03:18 -0800

FWIW I thought the book The Lovely Bones was pretty awful Five People You Meet in Heaven level stuff to begin with. The movie sure sounded awfully trite.

By: New England Cultist

New England Cultist — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 13:09:30 -0800

The movie sure sounded awfully trite. It had its flaws, but was nonetheless emotionally powerful, and Jackson treated a tough subject well. There were some substantial differences from the novel, which may have made for a better film overall. Still, worth seeing, in my opinion.

By: Brocktoon

Brocktoon — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 13:20:58 -0800

Yeah no, they're not making The Lovely Bones coins.

By: Jalliah

Jalliah — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 13:22:30 -0800

Hmm my geekiness is a twitter it seems. I want these! Down geek sensibilities, down!

By: dgaicun

dgaicun — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 13:23:06 -0800

This isn't fair until Bret and Jemaine get to be on the banknotes.

By: New England Cultist

New England Cultist — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 13:23:57 -0800

This isn't fair until Bret and Jemaine get to be on the banknotes. NO.

By: cosmic.osmo

cosmic.osmo — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 13:25:37 -0800

At first glance, I thought the Bilbo coin was giving me the finger.

By: panboi

panboi — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 13:33:09 -0800

Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold.

By: ricochet biscuit

ricochet biscuit — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 13:35:56 -0800

Fifteen years ago, Martin Freeman was an obscure English actor who had appeared in small roles in a couple of episodes of TV shows. I wonder what kind of odds you could have gotten from bookies that fifteen years later he would be appearing on currency in New Zealand.

By: nushustu

nushustu — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 13:41:14 -0800

The US has had this type of thing forever.

By: kyrademon

kyrademon — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 13:43:46 -0800

> "The two biggest pop culture draws for Kansas were both stories of how people escaped the state." That's ... a pretty unusual view of both stories. Both The Wizard of Oz and Superman are usually taken to be in part parables about how the best and most charitable values of rural Kansas benefit other places when they are exported to them.

By: zippy

zippy — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 14:24:19 -0800

Superman was an immigrant to Kansas! It draws superbeings from around the universe!

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 14:25:46 -0800

I hear George Lucas has a deal worked out with the Jamaican Mint when the Jar Jar biopic is out.

By: edgeways

edgeways — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 14:26:38 -0800

I think the WoO movie is defiantly a pro-Kansas story, or at least a pro-roots story, "There's no place like home there's no place like home". The books are a little bit more ambiguous about this. I can't recall all of it, been awhile, but iirc the opening descriptions of Kansas are pretty godawful bleak. As to Superman, yeah I totally buy the "being from Kansas makes my values better than being from the big city" idea

By: peacheater

peacheater — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 14:32:53 -0800

How people can muster up the hatred that I would reserve for, say, racism towards a nation they will never visit in their short sad lives is beyond me. Kiwis aren't a separate race. I don't that's what's being implied above. The meaning becomes clearer with another comma: How people can muster up the hatred that I would reserve for, say, racism, towards a nation they will never visit in their short sad lives is beyond me. i.e. how can people manage to work up so much hatred towards a country instead of something like say, racism.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 14:34:14 -0800

The chart that proves just how much of a sausage fest Middle Earth is

By: kyrademon

kyrademon — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 14:35:31 -0800

It's subtler in the Wizard of Oz books than it is in the Superman stories, but there's definitely a running theme that the values and ideas that Dorothy brings with her to Oz from Kansas are valuable and important.

By: comealongpole

comealongpole — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 14:42:54 -0800

Elizabeth II on the obverse? Seems like they've seldom even heard of the King!

By: DoctorFedora

DoctorFedora — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 15:03:10 -0800

The US has had this type of thing forever. posted by nushustu at 6:41 AM on October 15 [+] [!] The big difference being that the Franklin Mint is a private company that doesn't issue legal tender.

By: NortonDC

NortonDC — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 15:14:33 -0800

Did I miss something? Isn't Middle-earth basically devoid of currency?

By: maxwelton

maxwelton — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 15:16:56 -0800

The big difference being that the Franklin Mint is a private company that doesn't issue legal tender. You forgot the final word of that sentence: yet.

By: Jehan

Jehan — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 15:21:28 -0800

The chart that proves just how much of a sausage fest Middle Earth is

I'm suspicious of the number given for dwarves. They're very hard to sex.

By: charlie don't surf

charlie don't surf — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 15:46:32 -0800

i.e. how can people manage to work up so much hatred towards a country instead of something like say, racism. Seems to me like Shadax was conflating racism and nationalism. Hatred towards a country is nationalism.

By: Sys Rq

Sys Rq — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 15:50:21 -0800

legal tender Yes. Legally speaking, this is true. You can spend them in shops. But if you go and try to spend your $10 Freeman-as-Bilbo at the Burger King in Auckland, either a) they won't accept it, or b) you will have traded a few thousand dollars worth of gold for a Whopper. They're commemorative collector's coins, of the sort you'd see being hocked on the shopping channel. The mint stamps "legal tender" on them so they seem like more than just really fucking expensive pog slammers.

By: ersatz

ersatz — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 15:56:31 -0800

I think there might be greater demand if they weren't gold and $3000 a pop. Precious.

By: ersatz

ersatz — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 15:57:40 -0800

But apparently they are modelled after the Arkenstone.

By: radwolf76

radwolf76 — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 16:11:16 -0800

Did I miss something? Isn't Middle-earth basically devoid of currency? Smaug's fault. Dragon's got to sleep on something.

By: bearwife

bearwife — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 16:12:42 -0800

I am on the edge of my seat, counting down to December 12. Howsoever, what my heart truly desires is not the Ring, nor this coin, but the entire Misty Mountain song (rather than just the trailer clip). So I can play it over and over and over again. Signed (fully disclosing here), Lifelong LOTR obsessive and Peter Jackson fan

By: drjimmy11

drjimmy11 — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 16:12:47 -0800

Can't they make one with a Balrog appearing in the smoke of the Twin Towers? That would sell everywhere.

By: Joe in Australia

Joe in Australia — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 16:21:58 -0800

And perhaps Saruman's face on the obverse?

By: Herodios

Herodios — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 16:31:08 -0800

The chart that proves just how much of a sausage fest Middle Earth is I am somewhat surprised to learn that 12 % of men are female.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 16:32:22 -0800

elves is confusing

By: yoink

yoink — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 17:08:56 -0800

I am somewhat surprised to learn that 12 % of men are female. Does Tolkien ever refer to humans as anything other than "men" or "man"?

By: mattoxic

mattoxic — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 18:16:12 -0800

First impressions: The $10 Frodo is flipping the bird

By: Artw

Artw — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 18:20:22 -0800

Does Tolkien ever refer to humans as anything other than "men" or "man"? "The mens"?

By: Alexander Hatchell

Alexander Hatchell — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 18:34:14 -0800

How many would I need to buy if I wanted to melt them down and make a ring?

By: hattifattener

hattifattener — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 18:34:50 -0800

The idea that the word "men" can only ever refer to male humans is kind of a modern thing. (Yeah, yeah, Éowyn.)

By: East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94

East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 18:40:01 -0800

I love the Gandalf coin. It has an old queen on one side, and Elizabeth II on the reverse

By: philip-random

philip-random — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 18:47:52 -0800

I'm excited, stop trying to bring me down. It won't be as good. The Hobbit movie that is (the Hobbit movies, I should say -- last I heard, there are going to be three of them). Because The Hobbit just isn't the book that LOTR is. It's nice and all with some moments of genuine brilliance, but overall it just lacks the epic scope and stakes. I mean, one's a treasure hunt. The other is effectively the Apocalypse. Like comparing pre-LSD Beatles to post. Both are great. One is greater.

By: Artw

Artw — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 18:50:09 -0800

It's a better book, IMHO. It doesn't need "fixing" to make it an extension of LotR..

By: KokuRyu

KokuRyu — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 18:55:11 -0800

Because The Hobbit just isn't the book that LOTR is. I would say the Hobbit is much better than LotR - it's a kick-ass, ripping yarn with none of the philosophical pretensions of the subsequent trilogy. I can't wait to see the movie.

By: ovvl

ovvl — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 19:00:08 -0800

Speaking of mythic figures in NZ currency, Sir Edmund Hillary is remembered on the NZ $5 note. (note: Ed gave credits to Norgay, group effort).

By: edgeways

edgeways — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 19:07:56 -0800

Since when does the quality of the book translate to the quality of the movie? In truth the simpler books make better movies because otherwise you leave gobtonnes of stuff out, and that's even before people start thinking you need to add shit like romance to the story.

By: dunkadunc

dunkadunc — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 19:09:36 -0800

Wow, those are some really ugly coins. Well-designed coins are slightly three-dimensional in their designs- take the Buffalo nickel for example. These look like shoddy JPEG-to-depth map jobs that could have been done in Photoshop.

By: item

item — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 20:50:00 -0800

Are we still talking about The Lovely Bones? No? Too bad, as it was an admittedly goofy story told through excellent direction and thoroughly stunning cinematography. Brian Eno did a masterful job on the soundtrack, as well, by remixing instrumental bits and pieces from his 70's works (including using a version of Third Uncle as it was apparently always meant to be used: in a fucking car chase) with newly-recorded stuff. Come to think of it, maybe I just liked it for the music.

By: philip-random

philip-random — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 21:44:30 -0800

I tried to watch it, found everything wonderful (cinematography, music, design, even the cast), but I didn't like the movie. It felt like the director just couldn't stop forcing cool things into it at the expense of story, tone etc ... which is also how I felt about King Kong (although that went sideways in other ways). It's like Jackson needs something as dense, as complicated, as overwhelming as LOTR to keep him focused ... which is one of the reasons I have my doubts about The Hobbit. I've got a bad feeling there's going to be an hour long extended chase (and whatever) with spiders in Mirkwood as they try to stretch things out to cover three movies.

By: fleacircus

fleacircus — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 21:51:56 -0800

The idea that the word "men" can only ever refer to male humans is kind of a modern thing. As is the idea that there's any point in talking about the female humans at all. Are we still talking about The Lovely Bones? No? Too bad, as it was an admittedly goofy story told through excellent direction... I thought the climax was kind of hugely flawed. The sister investigates the killer (who is also targeting her), sneaks into his house, finds evidence of his crimes, is almost caught by the killer in his house, runs to her house to safety and with this incredibly important thing to say, and ... yay, mom and dad are back together? End story w/r/t family. I can understand denying closure because that's the Lovely Bones for ya, but even if that was the intent, I thought it was really badly done. (I haven't read the book.)

By: dunkadunc

dunkadunc — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 22:14:03 -0800

I would much rather see official New Zealand coinage inspired by Peter Jackson's other masterpiece, Braindead, AKA Dead Alive.

By: boo_radley

boo_radley — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 22:45:53 -0800

brennen: "Kansas" Hey man, you mess with prog rock you mess with me.

By: boo_radley

boo_radley — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 22:53:39 -0800

~ holds a hand of dust up to the evening winds.

By: Brocktoon

Brocktoon — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 23:32:35 -0800

Yes, the coins are ugly. But hobbits are awesome.

By: littlesq

littlesq — Mon, 15 Oct 2012 00:08:55 -0800

I'm suspicious of the number given for dwarves. They're very hard to sex. You have to lift their beards up in order to see their genitals, but it's quite difficult to do because dwarves have axes they like to swing at people if you try to touch them. No one sexes a dwarf.

By: Malor

Malor — Mon, 15 Oct 2012 00:21:07 -0800

As is the idea that there's any point in talking about the female humans at all. Well, for what it's worth, it was very, very explicitly taught to me in school, in the 1970s, that 'mankind' and most plural forms of 'men' were gender-nonspecific, that you could neither infer nor imply what genders were in a given group through the use of a male nominative. In other words, 'men' was the normal word for referring to a group of people, and you would rarely use 'women', typically only for a small group dominated by females, or when gender was important to the conversation somehow. Otherwise, 'men' and 'people' were largely interchangeable. I make no claim that this is proper, or right, but that's what I was taught. And I kinda got the impression that this was already considered fairly liberal; I was young, but I believed my teachers didn't all quite agree on these rules, that some thought they went too far, and some thought they didn't go far enough.

By: lollusc

lollusc — Mon, 15 Oct 2012 05:40:34 -0800

that filmdrunk/uproxx article in the third link is mean. I'm a New Zealander, and I thought it was funny. But my sense of humour is bit broken this week. As for The Hobbit, I was always keener on seeing Jackson make that than LOTR. Back when rumours about Peter Jackson taking on Tolkien first started spreading around my circle of friends in NZ (via people who knew people who knew him), it was The Hobbit they were talking about. I remember disappointment when we found out it was LOTR instead.

By: Chrysostom

Chrysostom — Mon, 15 Oct 2012 06:18:53 -0800

KokuRyu: "I would say the Hobbit is much better than LotR - it's a kick-ass, ripping yarn with none of the philosophical pretensions of the subsequent trilogy. I can't wait to see the movie." The problem is he isn't making a movie, he's making THREE movies. I would have been excited to see a movie of The Hobbit. I'm not really excited to see an overly padded, LOTR-ized version.

By: winna

winna — Mon, 15 Oct 2012 07:07:31 -0800

I feel about the LOTR movies like I feel about the Star Wars prequels. I walked out of The Two Towers in a murderous rage. I am sure Jackson will bring his special touch to this latest monstrosity. Perhaps the spiders of Mirkwood will poison the dwarves by farting on them, or there will be a hilarious sequence where Smaug bowls using the dwarves. To make it 'hip' and 'fresh', doncha know. Also, LOTR is based in sagas. There wasn't gender equality in sagas. I'm all for gender equality, but it's ridiculous to be all j'accuse! about it.

By: Uther Bentrazor

Uther Bentrazor — Mon, 15 Oct 2012 07:11:06 -0800

The big difference being that the Franklin Mint is a private company that doesn't issue legal tender. Hey! I was assured that my 9/11 coins were REAL money issued by the Bank of Liberia! Did you Forget^TM !?!?

By: Fleebnork

Fleebnork — Mon, 15 Oct 2012 07:26:20 -0800

It's a better book, IMHO. It doesn't need "fixing" to make it an extension of LotR.. That was done long before Peter Jackson got hold of it.

By: Chrysostom

Chrysostom — Mon, 15 Oct 2012 07:59:14 -0800

Fleebnork: "That was done long before Peter Jackson got hold of it." Those changes tied The Hobbit into the greater mythos (not entirely smoothly). But the tone of The Hobbit is totally different from that of The Lord of the Rings, or the Silmarillion. The Hobbit is a children's book. It's a charming one, and not without its more serious moments, but it is a very different beast from the rest of the Middle-earth stories.

By: brennen

brennen — Mon, 15 Oct 2012 08:32:28 -0800

Hey man, you mess with prog rock you mess with me. So I'm eating at this place in Salina, KS, with family the other night, and we step out of the restaurant, and on the marquee of the theater across the street, with people queuing up to go in? "KANSAS" I guess it wouldn't have struck me as funny if people hadn't already been conflating states and bands at me all day. Anyway, I don't know what I expect from the Hobbit movie. I thought that, though there were considerable flaws here and there, the LotR films were basically as good as they could have been, and vastly better than we had any real reason to expect they would be. They weren't fully realized in every dimension, there were some sort of cheapening choices made about character here and there, etc., but the casting was near to perfect and the people involved pulled off a series of minor miracles in terms of rendering a believable, worthy Middle Earth. I almost don't feel like I'm owed a good Hobbit film.

By: philip-random

philip-random — Mon, 15 Oct 2012 10:25:53 -0800

I feel about the LOTR movies like I feel about the Star Wars prequels. I walked out of The Two Towers in a murderous rage. Really? What was so appalling? The insertion of the Aragorn "death"? That annoyed me but it hardly ruined the experience of a mostly brilliant adaptation for me. I also got annoyed in Return of the King when they inserted the bit about Frodo sending Sam home (totally unnecessary -- made a long movie even longer), but again, hardly a deal breaker. Comparing Jackson's LOTR to the Star Wars prequels is like comparing the Beatles to the Monkees -- it just doesn't float. Not with me anyway.

By: ricochet biscuit

ricochet biscuit — Mon, 15 Oct 2012 11:17:18 -0800

I thought that, though there were considerable flaws here and there, the LotR films were basically as good as they could have been, and vastly better than we had any real reason to expect they would be. I tend to agree. They were made by a director whose biggest and most ambitious project before then had been The Frighteners, which was gloriously so-so, and the cast was a hodge-podge of unknowns and obscure character actors (in late 2001, the fellowship was to me Sallah, the guy from Richard III, the villain from Goldeneye, and six other people) and the films were to be a product of the New Zealand film industry, which produced small, well-crafted things like Goodbye Pork Pie and Utu, not epics. The films are not perfect, but for every way they could have been better, there are a thousand ways they could have gone far worse.

By: Fleebnork

Fleebnork — Mon, 15 Oct 2012 12:19:38 -0800

Those changes tied The Hobbit into the greater mythos (not entirely smoothly). But the tone of The Hobbit is totally different from that of The Lord of the Rings, or the Silmarillion. The Hobbit is a children's book. It's a charming one, and not without its more serious moments, but it is a very different beast from the rest of the Middle-earth stories. I am well aware of that. However, I don't really want to see a Hobbit film where the Elves are singing TRA LA LA LALLY DOWN IN THE VALLEY. YMMV.

By: Brocktoon

Brocktoon — Mon, 15 Oct 2012 12:23:23 -0800

I imagine the RAGE occurred when Elves marched up to Helm's Deep. That bugged me too, but it didn't change my opinion that these are some of the greatest movies ever made, and certainly the greatest fantasy movies ever made. You did see Gollum, right?

By: ersatz

ersatz — Mon, 15 Oct 2012 15:58:36 -0800

I am well aware of that. However, I don't really want to see a Hobbit film where the Elves are singing TRA LA LA LALLY DOWN IN THE VALLEY. Our desires diverge although Jackson's with you.

By: glasseyes

glasseyes — Mon, 15 Oct 2012 18:22:27 -0800

On gender equality - well I'm no scholar but I was pleasantly surprised to read somewhere that Anglo-Saxon 'man' does mean person, just as all those modern people who say 'mankind' is inclusive have been claiming. Woman, wyfman, a person who weaves, husbandman, a person who farms. Equal in law, apparently, and recorded in historical documents. And I believe sagas have plenty of powerful, equally ruthless women in them, particularly the Icelandic dynastic ones? I stand to be corrected by scholars on this but that's the impression my casual reading has led to.