It's Time For Another Woman Moderator for the U.S. Presidential Debate!
October 16, 2012 2:39 PM Subscribe
Ever since the first televised general election presidential debate was held on September 26, 1960, between U.S. Senator John F. Kennedy, the Democratic nominee, and Vice President Richard Nixon, the Republican nominee the vast majority of moderators have been men. "Why haven’t women moderated a presidential debate in the past 20 years, especially when women vote more than men?"*
"When ABC News' Carole Simpson was hired as the first female and African American presidential debate moderator in 1992, it never occurred to her that two decades would pass without another being chosen. But in the years since she slung questions at candidates George H. W. Bush, Bill Clinton and Ross Perot, not one woman has been chosen for the role"*
This evening, CNN's Candy Crowley moderates a town-hall style debate between President Obama and Governor Mitt Romney.
"When ABC News' Carole Simpson was hired as the first female and African American presidential debate moderator in 1992, it never occurred to her that two decades would pass without another being chosen. But in the years since she slung questions at candidates George H. W. Bush, Bill Clinton and Ross Perot, not one woman has been chosen for the role"*
This evening, CNN's Candy Crowley moderates a town-hall style debate between President Obama and Governor Mitt Romney.
And ... Candy Crowley's selection as a moderator was likely influenced by a Change.org petition hosted by three teen girls:posted by ericb at 2:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
I was kind of hoping one of the debates would be moderated by three teen girls.
posted by mazola at 2:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [31 favorites]
posted by mazola at 2:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [31 favorites]
Is my memory failing me? Didn't Gwen Eiffel do one last time, or was that the veeps?
posted by trackofalljades at 2:50 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by trackofalljades at 2:50 PM on October 16, 2012
I'll be more excited when there's a woman on the other side of this stage.
posted by delfin at 2:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
posted by delfin at 2:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
Is my memory failing me? Didn't Gwen Eiffel do one last time, or was that the veeps?
She has hosted only V.P. debates (2004, 2008).
posted by ericb at 2:53 PM on October 16, 2012
She has hosted only V.P. debates (2004, 2008).
posted by ericb at 2:53 PM on October 16, 2012
It would also be nice if the CPD were replaced by the League of Women Voters, but that horse will probably never re-enter the barn.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 2:53 PM on October 16, 2012 [15 favorites]
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 2:53 PM on October 16, 2012 [15 favorites]
Both campaigns have now complained about Crowley in advance of the debate. The campaigns signed a ‘Memo Of Understanding,’ with the Commission for Presidential Debates, but Crowley has said she doesn't feel bound by it and will ask follow-up questions if the candidates' answers are evasive.
posted by zarq at 3:01 PM on October 16, 2012 [34 favorites]
posted by zarq at 3:01 PM on October 16, 2012 [34 favorites]
Note that both times women have moderated a Presidential debate they have been "town hall" style debates rather than the more traditional forum. The moderator of a town hall debate is supposed to be more or less a complete wallflower and it kind of offends me that both times women have done the moderation they get pawned off on these town halls.
The rules both candidates have agreed to for tonight's debate indicate Crowley is not allowed to do anything except hand the microphone to people. No rephrasing the questions, no follow-ups or asking for clarification, nada. My understanding is that Crowley herself has not agreed to these rules, but I don't know if that means she has actively not agreed to them and intends to be more active, or that they just never bothered to ask her to agree to them.
Personally, I hope she says screw your bullshit rules and goes renegade.
posted by Justinian at 3:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [28 favorites]
The rules both candidates have agreed to for tonight's debate indicate Crowley is not allowed to do anything except hand the microphone to people. No rephrasing the questions, no follow-ups or asking for clarification, nada. My understanding is that Crowley herself has not agreed to these rules, but I don't know if that means she has actively not agreed to them and intends to be more active, or that they just never bothered to ask her to agree to them.
Personally, I hope she says screw your bullshit rules and goes renegade.
posted by Justinian at 3:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [28 favorites]
Oh, thanks zarq! So Crowley has actively disagreed with the rules.
posted by Justinian at 3:03 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Justinian at 3:03 PM on October 16, 2012
mazola: "I was kind of hoping one of the debates would be moderated by three teen girls."
Ew. Seriously? So gross.
posted by schmod at 3:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [28 favorites]
Ew. Seriously? So gross.
posted by schmod at 3:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [28 favorites]
Based on last weeks VP debate, maybe only women should moderate.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 3:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [48 favorites]
posted by Senor Cardgage at 3:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [48 favorites]
Eh, there are plenty of men who could do a bang up job. Unfortunately Lehrer's time has passed. I hope that was the last time he is allowed near a debate.
posted by Justinian at 3:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 3:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
I don't necessarily believe in the whole 11 dimension chess of Obama's campaigning theory... but signing the Memo of Understanding with Romney seems like a great move (whether or not they agree with it -- which I think they, sadly, probably do, but I don't know) -- it increases the chances that Crowley ups the follow-ups (which is good if/when Romney evades all over the place) and if Romney's campaign complains about Crowley's follow-ups being against the rules, they can say "Look, we agree with you - sorry chumps."
posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'd like to see someone other than a TV news reader moderate the debates.
posted by Longtime Listener at 3:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
posted by Longtime Listener at 3:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
Thanks for the post, ericb. Raddatz was very good last time. It looks like Crowley intends to moderate instead of just being in the room.
posted by ersatz at 3:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ersatz at 3:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I don't know why there has to be a moderator. Just put them both up there and let 'em go at it. It'd make much more interesting TV... but probably hasten the end of the republic.
posted by ennui.bz at 3:18 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by ennui.bz at 3:18 PM on October 16, 2012
Or maybe the networks should tell the candidates that they will ask whatever questions they want and if someone doesn't want to show up they will stick up a picture of a chicken on a lectern in their place and broadcast that for an hour.
posted by biffa at 3:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [21 favorites]
posted by biffa at 3:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [21 favorites]
This is the new debate thread? good enough!
posted by Theta States at 3:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Theta States at 3:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
She gets time after the initial response to "foster a discussion." What could that mean if not ask follow up questions?
posted by m@f at 3:26 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by m@f at 3:26 PM on October 16, 2012
Between Raddatz's impressive handling of the veep debates and Crowley's response to the "Memo of Understanding" malarkey (thanks zarq!), I think I might have to write in Raddatz/Crowley 2012 in a few weeks.
posted by katya.lysander at 3:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by katya.lysander at 3:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Have we established a Memo of Understanding for this thread yet?
posted by mazola at 3:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by mazola at 3:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Take the discussion home, show it its new bedroom, introduce it to its new brother and sister...
posted by cortex at 3:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by cortex at 3:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
Or maybe the networks should tell the candidates that they will ask whatever questions they want and if someone doesn't want to show up they will stick up a picture of a chicken on a lectern in their place and broadcast that for an hour.
Minus the chicken picture, it's been done.
posted by delfin at 3:28 PM on October 16, 2012
Minus the chicken picture, it's been done.
posted by delfin at 3:28 PM on October 16, 2012
Justinian: " So Crowley has actively disagreed with the rules."
Yep. Hopefully she'll turn in more of a Raddatz performance than a Lehrer.
Longtime Listener: "I'd like to see someone other than a TV news reader moderate the debates."
That's one of the reasons why Raddatz was a good choice. She's a senior reporter with great foreign policy chops, and in her career has been her network's State Department and White House correspondent. She's also reported from Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq quite extensively.
posted by zarq at 3:30 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Yep. Hopefully she'll turn in more of a Raddatz performance than a Lehrer.
Longtime Listener: "I'd like to see someone other than a TV news reader moderate the debates."
That's one of the reasons why Raddatz was a good choice. She's a senior reporter with great foreign policy chops, and in her career has been her network's State Department and White House correspondent. She's also reported from Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq quite extensively.
posted by zarq at 3:30 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
I hope Crowley is smart enough to ignore the contract that prohibits followups and has other silly rules. Screw the rules the candidates wrote lets have a debate.
posted by humanfont at 3:31 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by humanfont at 3:31 PM on October 16, 2012
ennui.bz: "I don't know why there has to be a moderator. Just put them both up there and let 'em go at it. It'd make much more interesting TV... but probably hasten the end of the republic."
Give 'em a bunch of weapons, lock 'em in until only one is left alive. Play the Star Trek Amok Time music during the battle and I'd watch.
posted by zarq at 3:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Give 'em a bunch of weapons, lock 'em in until only one is left alive. Play the Star Trek Amok Time music during the battle and I'd watch.
posted by zarq at 3:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Former Gov. Granholm and Steve Schmidt were on Today this morning. When asked what debate questions they would ask, Granholm suggested asking Romney whether he would hold Supreme Court nominees to a litmus test and Schmidt suggested asking Obama what he would do differently in the next four years than he has done in the past four (imo, the better question).
My dream question: "Governor Romney, you have stated you will shut down Planned Parenthood. How will you ensure that uninsured women obtain equivalent health screening and testing services such as pap smears for the little to no cost they currently pay PP?"
(Although I won't lie, I would laugh if someone stood up and asked "Pepperoni or sausage?" They played the clip this morning of an audience member asking Clinton "boxers or briefs" and it was pretty shocking to watch, even now.)
posted by sallybrown at 3:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
My dream question: "Governor Romney, you have stated you will shut down Planned Parenthood. How will you ensure that uninsured women obtain equivalent health screening and testing services such as pap smears for the little to no cost they currently pay PP?"
(Although I won't lie, I would laugh if someone stood up and asked "Pepperoni or sausage?" They played the clip this morning of an audience member asking Clinton "boxers or briefs" and it was pretty shocking to watch, even now.)
posted by sallybrown at 3:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
She gets time after the initial response to "foster a discussion." What could that mean if not ask follow up questions?
Great, now you've got me imagining Linda Richman as a debate moderator:
[candidate answers question with Inspiring Story Of An Injured Veteran #38]
Richman: "I'm all verklempt...." (gestures to candidates) "Tawk amongst yourselves... I'll give you a topic: Rhode Island is neither a road nor an island. Discuss."
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 3:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
Great, now you've got me imagining Linda Richman as a debate moderator:
[candidate answers question with Inspiring Story Of An Injured Veteran #38]
Richman: "I'm all verklempt...." (gestures to candidates) "Tawk amongst yourselves... I'll give you a topic: Rhode Island is neither a road nor an island. Discuss."
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 3:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
I would love it if someone would ask Romney to explain why he paid more tax than he owed for 2011, when he has so famously said that paying more in taxes than is necessary should be disqualifying for the Presidency.
I'd like someone to ask Obama why the hell we haven't gotten out of Afghanistan yet.
posted by ambrosia at 3:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
I'd like someone to ask Obama why the hell we haven't gotten out of Afghanistan yet.
posted by ambrosia at 3:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
mazola: "I was kind of hoping one of the debates would be moderated by three teen girls."
Ew. Seriously? So gross.
what you did there, I see it.
before all the capslock starts happening in here, I'm going to say right now I am hoping for the real Obama to step up tonight. plus isn't there an actual mefite in attendance as well? so that has to mean it will go well..
Take the discussion home, show it its new bedroom, introduce it to its new brother and sister...
BUT WE ALREADY PLAYED THERE WE WANT A NEW TOY WAAH
posted by ninjew at 3:41 PM on October 16, 2012
Ew. Seriously? So gross.
what you did there, I see it.
before all the capslock starts happening in here, I'm going to say right now I am hoping for the real Obama to step up tonight. plus isn't there an actual mefite in attendance as well? so that has to mean it will go well..
Take the discussion home, show it its new bedroom, introduce it to its new brother and sister...
BUT WE ALREADY PLAYED THERE WE WANT A NEW TOY WAAH
posted by ninjew at 3:41 PM on October 16, 2012
What I want to see is to have the moderator break up the speechifying and to zero in on very specific issues in the debate. With facts taking such a backseat in this campaign season, why not use the debates to try to pin down some factual issues once and for all (not that I have much hope, but let's dream)?
Like when Romney rattles off his 12-point list on how Obamacare will doom us all, the moderator can try to force Obama to set aside most of those points for a moment and focus the debate just on the $716 billion in alleged Medicare cuts. Say we're not leaving and we're not moving on until that issue is resolved and bring that issue to as much of a resolution as is possible. Repeat ad nauseam.
I don't doubt that a debate like this would get pretty wonkish and technical (and heated!), but that would actually seem to suit both candidates. Frankly, I'd just like to see some of the basic factual points arguments that have been flying around settled once and for all, and the only time that is going to happen is when both candidates are on stage together. There's plenty of legitimate room to debate actual policy, but these debates have become a game of "the sky is green!" and "any fool can see the sky is clearly red." You just can't debate anything of substance without some shared framework of factual reality and logic.
posted by zachlipton at 3:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Like when Romney rattles off his 12-point list on how Obamacare will doom us all, the moderator can try to force Obama to set aside most of those points for a moment and focus the debate just on the $716 billion in alleged Medicare cuts. Say we're not leaving and we're not moving on until that issue is resolved and bring that issue to as much of a resolution as is possible. Repeat ad nauseam.
I don't doubt that a debate like this would get pretty wonkish and technical (and heated!), but that would actually seem to suit both candidates. Frankly, I'd just like to see some of the basic factual points arguments that have been flying around settled once and for all, and the only time that is going to happen is when both candidates are on stage together. There's plenty of legitimate room to debate actual policy, but these debates have become a game of "the sky is green!" and "any fool can see the sky is clearly red." You just can't debate anything of substance without some shared framework of factual reality and logic.
posted by zachlipton at 3:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Extra points if she calls him Congressman Romney.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Give 'em a bunch of weapons, lock 'em in until only one is left alive. Play the Star Trek Amok Time music during the battle and I'd watch.
What I think the debate commission should do is wire up each candidate to receive electric shocks administered by their opponent with the voltage increasing with each shock. BUT, the catch is that the first candidate to pass out will be considered to have won the debate.
posted by ennui.bz at 3:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
What I think the debate commission should do is wire up each candidate to receive electric shocks administered by their opponent with the voltage increasing with each shock. BUT, the catch is that the first candidate to pass out will be considered to have won the debate.
posted by ennui.bz at 3:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Some details:
"The format focuses on the 80 people that will be here asking questions of the candidates. They've been chosen as uncommitted voters from Nassau County by the Gallup organization."More details:
All of the tickets allocated to Hofstra University from the Commission on Presidential Debates will be distributed to current students in the days before the debate, as recommended by the CPD and consistent with past practices of debate hosts, including Hofstra in 2008. President Rabinowitz has already clearly stated that he, along with all administrators and faculty, will not take seats within the debate hall but will instead watch the debate at a campus simulcast, in order to allow the maximum number of Hofstra students to attend the debate.posted by cashman at 3:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Shock collars controlled by the audience. Let's see Romney lie his way out of that.
posted by five fresh fish at 3:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by five fresh fish at 3:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Having a woman moderate the debates is a no-brainer. The male moderators usually vacillate and kowtow, worried about their Q-ratings.
posted by Renoroc at 3:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Renoroc at 3:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I wish they didn't limit it to uncommitted voters. I am deeply suspicious of uncommitted voters at this stage in the process. Where the hell have they been all this time?
posted by ambrosia at 3:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [30 favorites]
posted by ambrosia at 3:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [30 favorites]
The audience at Hofstra University -- 80 uncommitted voters from Long Island's Nassau County recruited by Gallup -- will ask the questions
i.e. an audience of the ignorant, dishonest, or willfully obtuse. It's like they set out to create an audience youtube commenters. perfect.
posted by ennui.bz at 3:48 PM on October 16, 2012 [27 favorites]
i.e. an audience of the ignorant, dishonest, or willfully obtuse. It's like they set out to create an audience youtube commenters. perfect.
posted by ennui.bz at 3:48 PM on October 16, 2012 [27 favorites]
five fresh fish: "Shock collars controlled by the audience."
That's it from Hofstra University in New York. The Presidential Debates have been brought to you by: Breakaway Paramilitary Uniforms, Ortopure Procreation Pill, and Cadre Cola; it hits the spot! Promotional considerations paid for by: Kelton Flame Throwers, Wainwright Electrical Launchers, and Hammond & Gage Chainsaws. Candy Crowley's wardrobe by Chez Antoinne: 19th-Century craftsmanship for the 21st-Century woman. Cadre Trooper and studio-guard side arms provided by Colchester: the pistol of patriots. Remember: Tickets for the Hofstra University studio tour are always available for Class-A citizens in good standing. If you'd like to be a contestant at The Presidential Debates send a self-addressed stamped envelope to: CPD Talent Hunt, care of your local affiliate or email CPD@commission.org....
posted by zarq at 3:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
That's it from Hofstra University in New York. The Presidential Debates have been brought to you by: Breakaway Paramilitary Uniforms, Ortopure Procreation Pill, and Cadre Cola; it hits the spot! Promotional considerations paid for by: Kelton Flame Throwers, Wainwright Electrical Launchers, and Hammond & Gage Chainsaws. Candy Crowley's wardrobe by Chez Antoinne: 19th-Century craftsmanship for the 21st-Century woman. Cadre Trooper and studio-guard side arms provided by Colchester: the pistol of patriots. Remember: Tickets for the Hofstra University studio tour are always available for Class-A citizens in good standing. If you'd like to be a contestant at The Presidential Debates send a self-addressed stamped envelope to: CPD Talent Hunt, care of your local affiliate or email CPD@commission.org....
posted by zarq at 3:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Oh, yes, our friends, the Undecided Voters, who have such important questions as:
posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [26 favorites]
- "When is the election?"
- "What are the names of the two people running...and be specific."
- "What happens if the president dies? Has anyone thought who'd replace him? What's your plan, gentleman?"
- "Can women vote? Because, if not, as a woman, I've got a problem with that..."
posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [26 favorites]
ambrosia: "Where the hell have they been all this time?"
Undecided voters have some real questions.
posted by Apropos of Something at 3:53 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Undecided voters have some real questions.
posted by Apropos of Something at 3:53 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Apparently, I'm not needed in the debate thread because my jokes and comments are covered. Have fun everybody!
posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:54 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by MCMikeNamara at 3:54 PM on October 16, 2012
Hey man, as long as they don't open up the phone lines to the "independent" or "uncommitted" voters after this dog and pony show is over, I'm happy.
I can't believe so many people in our country had to have someone figure out how to dial the phone for them.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 3:55 PM on October 16, 2012
I can't believe so many people in our country had to have someone figure out how to dial the phone for them.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 3:55 PM on October 16, 2012
80 uncommitted voters from Long Island's Nassau County
Unfortunately for us all, Lindsay Lohan already came out in support of a candidate.
posted by sallybrown at 3:55 PM on October 16, 2012
Unfortunately for us all, Lindsay Lohan already came out in support of a candidate.
posted by sallybrown at 3:55 PM on October 16, 2012
I'm going to go against the conventional wisdom and say that Obama does not have to win the debate. He just has to tie.
I'm of the school that the fundamentals of the election favor Obama, probably by about 3% of the national popular vote or so. See, for instance, the Princeton site. Events can buffet a snapshot back & forth, but the polls and eventually the vote will drift back to 3% where there is not wind at the back of one candidate or another.
Hence, if he at least draws, the polls will drift back to 3% +/-.
posted by JKevinKing at 3:57 PM on October 16, 2012
I'm of the school that the fundamentals of the election favor Obama, probably by about 3% of the national popular vote or so. See, for instance, the Princeton site. Events can buffet a snapshot back & forth, but the polls and eventually the vote will drift back to 3% where there is not wind at the back of one candidate or another.
Hence, if he at least draws, the polls will drift back to 3% +/-.
posted by JKevinKing at 3:57 PM on October 16, 2012
Unless Mitt audibly poops himself, the media will say he won (I may be a pessimist when it comes to this).
posted by drezdn at 4:00 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 4:00 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Unless Mitt audibly poops himself, the media will say he won (I may be a pessimist when it comes to this).
That depends on whether you believe his pants will be half full or half empty.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [21 favorites]
That depends on whether you believe his pants will be half full or half empty.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [21 favorites]
and remember folks, this is a "town hall" style debate. not only will the candidates be wearing shock collars but they will be wandering around the hall twirling their microphones like bad lounge singers... that's right, the 1st annual presidential karaoke contest! can obama beat romney's take on "Call Me Maybe" with his vicious attack version of "(Romney) Somebody I Used to Know."
posted by ennui.bz at 4:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by ennui.bz at 4:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
No matter what happens tonight the media and undecided voter surveys will call it a Romney win.
posted by 2bucksplus at 4:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by 2bucksplus at 4:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
I don't know, I'm thinking that a strong-ish Obama performance would be spun as a win, so that they can set up THE TIEBREAKER OF THE CENTURY for next week BE SURE TO TUNE IN.
posted by saturday_morning at 4:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by saturday_morning at 4:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
I wouldn't put it past him to audibly poop himself, he is really not the best at dealing with regular people.
posted by sallybrown at 4:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 4:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
romney's take on "Call Me Maybe"
Your a woman
Must have a baby
Legal abortion
I'm for it... maybe.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:13 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
Your a woman
Must have a baby
Legal abortion
I'm for it... maybe.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:13 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
Wouldn't the media be more likely to give Obama the win if they want the narrative to be about a tighter race? Then they can spend the next week going on about the crucial tie-breaking final round.
posted by shortfuse at 4:17 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by shortfuse at 4:17 PM on October 16, 2012
I'll be out tonight, so I'm counting on y'all to summarize this for me by the time I get back. Hope Sullivan has had his chamomile tea before the debate starts.
posted by arcticseal at 4:19 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by arcticseal at 4:19 PM on October 16, 2012
Give 'em a bunch of weapons, lock 'em in until only one is left alive. Play the Star Trek Amok Time
They should have to take a POTUS version of the Kobayashi Maru.
posted by audi alteram partem at 4:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
They should have to take a POTUS version of the Kobayashi Maru.
posted by audi alteram partem at 4:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Yeah, I agree the playing field is tilted against an Obama win. Romney would probably have to have a major gaffe for him to lose. But I also think that a good debate by Obama, no matter what Romney does, will lead to a tie, with conservative & liberal media calling it their respective ways and the middle splitting the difference. That's all Obama needs, IMHO. Romney's metaphorically shitting himself would be gravy... and great!!!
posted by JKevinKing at 4:21 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by JKevinKing at 4:21 PM on October 16, 2012
Just had an earthquake here in Boston (and New England). Romney is looking to shake things up!
posted by ericb at 4:22 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by ericb at 4:22 PM on October 16, 2012
Whenever I read articles that include interviews with undecided voters, I want to stab myself in the eyes.
posted by perhapses at 4:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by perhapses at 4:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Eric,
Whoa, you're OK I take it!
Maybe the gods are sending a message. Wonder what it is?! ;)
posted by JKevinKing at 4:24 PM on October 16, 2012
Whoa, you're OK I take it!
Maybe the gods are sending a message. Wonder what it is?! ;)
posted by JKevinKing at 4:24 PM on October 16, 2012
I don't know why Candy Crowley was selected when both Robin Meade and Erin Burnett are obviously more qualified.
posted by Tanizaki at 4:26 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Tanizaki at 4:26 PM on October 16, 2012
An undecided voter speaks: "I care a whole lot about issue X, and look at how pretty the leaves are on those trees, so I'll probably vote for candidate Y." (Where candidate Y is the one most opposed to issue X."
posted by perhapses at 4:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by perhapses at 4:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Actually existing media bias: Questions for tonight’s townhall debate will be drawn from a survey of Nasssu County residents. 73% white, Nassau is the 12th richest county in the US.
I'm kind of dreading this.
posted by gerryblog at 4:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
I'm kind of dreading this.
posted by gerryblog at 4:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
Unless Mitt audibly poops himself, the media will say he won (I may be a pessimist when it comes to this).
Don't laugh! When someone's that full of shit, it's harder than you think.
posted by indubitable at 4:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Don't laugh! When someone's that full of shit, it's harder than you think.
posted by indubitable at 4:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
They should have to take a POTUS version of the Kobayashi Maru.
They have one. It's called the Gaza Strip.
posted by delfin at 4:30 PM on October 16, 2012 [18 favorites]
They have one. It's called the Gaza Strip.
posted by delfin at 4:30 PM on October 16, 2012 [18 favorites]
From perhapses link -
"But I give Romney the edge. It just couldn't hurt to get someone new in there."
Oh my...
posted by TwoWordReview at 4:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"But I give Romney the edge. It just couldn't hurt to get someone new in there."
Oh my...
posted by TwoWordReview at 4:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
An undecided voter speaks: "I care a whole lot about issue X, and look at how pretty the leaves are on those trees, so I'll probably vote for candidate Y." (Where candidate Y is the one most opposed to issue X."
MSNBC literally just ran this segment: A Romney voter whose main issue is speedy withdrawal from Afghanistan.
posted by gerryblog at 4:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
MSNBC literally just ran this segment: A Romney voter whose main issue is speedy withdrawal from Afghanistan.
posted by gerryblog at 4:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Mitt Romney Will Push Obama To 'Man Up' On Libya, Foreign Policy Adviser William Richardson Says (VIDEO)
Hillary Clinton is not a doormat for Obama
Would anyone say that about a male secretary of state? Very likely, no. If a man stood up and took responsibility for a failure in his department, he would be admired as handling the problem with a tough-as-nails manner.
posted by Golden Eternity at 4:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Hillary Clinton is not a doormat for Obama
Would anyone say that about a male secretary of state? Very likely, no. If a man stood up and took responsibility for a failure in his department, he would be admired as handling the problem with a tough-as-nails manner.
posted by Golden Eternity at 4:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
That depends on whether you believe his pants will be half full or half empty.
Trickling down.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 4:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
Trickling down.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 4:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
I'm not sure I'm gonna make it to the election, y'all. Watching the live stand-up with the people outside the debate venue on Hardball right now is even more depressing than the last time with the "He's a communist. Study it out." woman.
posted by ob1quixote at 4:33 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by ob1quixote at 4:33 PM on October 16, 2012
4.6 magnitude earthquake with epicenter in Southwestern Maine. Felt from Maine to R.I.
posted by ericb at 4:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ericb at 4:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
An undecided voter speaks: "I care a whole lot about issue X, and look at how pretty the leaves are on those trees, so I'll probably vote for candidate Y." (Where candidate Y is the one most opposed to issue X."
MSNBC literally just ran this segment: A Romney voter whose main issue is speedy withdrawal from Afghanistan.
From the article perhapses linked: a voter who dislikes "sending jobs overseas" and "would like to see the country move to government-provided universal health care" --> voting for Romney.
posted by sallybrown at 4:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
MSNBC literally just ran this segment: A Romney voter whose main issue is speedy withdrawal from Afghanistan.
From the article perhapses linked: a voter who dislikes "sending jobs overseas" and "would like to see the country move to government-provided universal health care" --> voting for Romney.
posted by sallybrown at 4:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
4.5? Ha ha! Here on the West Coast, we use those little guys to butter our toast! (You hold the knife still and let the bread move around.)
posted by SPrintF at 4:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by SPrintF at 4:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Obama Excited to Participate in First Debate
posted by moorooka at 4:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by moorooka at 4:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Are the Republicans going to say that it's a Democrat conspiracy, same as the hurricane that occurred at the same time as their convention?
posted by arcticseal at 4:39 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by arcticseal at 4:39 PM on October 16, 2012
I'm sure all the undecided voters in Maine who are concerned about this earthquake will vote for the candidate who is most likely to cut funding on earthquake research and preparedness.
posted by perhapses at 4:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by perhapses at 4:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
The Last Stand for Humanity for an Election in Which Bullshit Is Now the Status Quo: Your Debate Preview
Romney's Vision for Etch-A-Sketch America Takes Hold
posted by homunculus at 4:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney's Vision for Etch-A-Sketch America Takes Hold
posted by homunculus at 4:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Actually existing media bias: Questions for tonight’s townhall debate will be drawn from a survey of Nasssu County residents. 73% white
Which is almost exactly the number for the nation as a whole. Within one percentage point.
posted by Justinian at 4:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Which is almost exactly the number for the nation as a whole. Within one percentage point.
posted by Justinian at 4:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Golly!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:42 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:42 PM on October 16, 2012
The deeper demographics don't match. And anyway, the median county in the US isn't the 12th richest, is it?
posted by gerryblog at 4:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by gerryblog at 4:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Dang, new thread! There I was like a dummy hanging out in the old threads and didn't know the party had moved on.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:43 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:43 PM on October 16, 2012
The campaigns signed a ‘Memo Of Understanding,’ with the Commission for Presidential Debates, but Crowley has said she doesn't feel bound by it and will ask follow-up questions if the candidates' answers are evasive.
Secret Debate Contract Reveals Obama and Romney Campaigns Exclude Third Parties, Control Questions
posted by homunculus at 4:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Secret Debate Contract Reveals Obama and Romney Campaigns Exclude Third Parties, Control Questions
posted by homunculus at 4:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
And speaking of excluding third parties: Green Party candidate arrested outside debate site
posted by homunculus at 4:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 4:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
We're wasting our time talking about this when they've just discovered an planet orbiting Alpha Centauri. The Chinese have already completed two spaceship thrusters and one spaceship hull! We need to research Fusion and Ecology fast.
posted by gerryblog at 4:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
posted by gerryblog at 4:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
And anyway, the median county in the US isn't the 12th richest, is it?
That seems mathematically unlikely, yes. I was just pointing out the problem isn't that the county was too white. Too rich, sure. But racially it is a very good cross section, comparable to the nation as a whole. Well, its religious demographics are probably a mismatch as Catholics and, particularly, Jews are hugely overrepresented. But racially it is a good fit.
It is Richie McRichverville, though, as you say.
posted by Justinian at 4:47 PM on October 16, 2012
That seems mathematically unlikely, yes. I was just pointing out the problem isn't that the county was too white. Too rich, sure. But racially it is a very good cross section, comparable to the nation as a whole. Well, its religious demographics are probably a mismatch as Catholics and, particularly, Jews are hugely overrepresented. But racially it is a good fit.
It is Richie McRichverville, though, as you say.
posted by Justinian at 4:47 PM on October 16, 2012
Gerryblog,
I guess we can go and hang out until Golan Trevize, Janov Pelorat & Bliss show up. In the meantime, everyone will be topless!!! (Suspicious timing, that news, with Krugman writing the intro to the new Foundation release & all. Conspiracy!)
posted by JKevinKing at 4:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I guess we can go and hang out until Golan Trevize, Janov Pelorat & Bliss show up. In the meantime, everyone will be topless!!! (Suspicious timing, that news, with Krugman writing the intro to the new Foundation release & all. Conspiracy!)
posted by JKevinKing at 4:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Dang, new thread! There I was like a dummy hanging out in the old threads and didn't know the party had moved on.
Don't diss the Motherthread like that. <3 Motherthread 4ever!
posted by winna at 4:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Don't diss the Motherthread like that. <3 Motherthread 4ever!
posted by winna at 4:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Personally I think the county can be "too white" even if the raw top-line numbers match. If I were doing it, I'd pick from a few different counties and cities with demographic profiles that match the way different communities live in the US. Picking from just one very white, very suburban, very rich county basically obliterates the experience of anyone who doesn't fit that mold.
posted by gerryblog at 4:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by gerryblog at 4:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
homunculus: "The campaigns signed a ‘Memo Of Understanding,’ with the Commission for Presidential Debates, but Crowley has said she doesn't feel bound by it and will ask follow-up questions if the candidates' answers are evasive.
Secret Debate Contract Reveals Obama and Romney Campaigns Exclude Third Parties, Control Questions"
I don't see how this is news or a surprise. The candidates are not forced to debate anyone. They chose to debate each other and exclude third party candidates - there is no abrogation of rights or justice here. I'm sorry that the candidates don't want to talk to 3rd partiers, but it's their choice.
posted by rebent at 4:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Secret Debate Contract Reveals Obama and Romney Campaigns Exclude Third Parties, Control Questions"
I don't see how this is news or a surprise. The candidates are not forced to debate anyone. They chose to debate each other and exclude third party candidates - there is no abrogation of rights or justice here. I'm sorry that the candidates don't want to talk to 3rd partiers, but it's their choice.
posted by rebent at 4:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Hillary Clinton is not a doormat for Obama
Conservatives Suddenly Decide Ball Busting Harridan Hillary Clinton Is a Wimpy Doormat
posted by homunculus at 4:53 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Conservatives Suddenly Decide Ball Busting Harridan Hillary Clinton Is a Wimpy Doormat
posted by homunculus at 4:53 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I hold no faith in the polls. I hope that I am not being naive though. One debate gave willard this bump?
The only explanation that I can think of is that all of the uneducated voters tuned in for the first debate and thought, "hey, this guy seems reasonable!".
Also his use of the Gish Gallop debate technique:
Gish has been characterized as using a rapid-fire approach during a debate, presenting arguments and changing topics very quickly. Eugenie Scott, executive director of the National Center for Science Education, has dubbed this approach the "Gish Gallop," describing it as "where the creationist is allowed to run on for 45 minutes or an hour, spewing forth torrents of error that the evolutionist hasn't a prayer of refuting in the format of a debate" and criticized Gish for failing to answer objections raised by his opponents. The phrase "Gish Gallop" has come to be used as a pejorative to describe similar debate styles employed by proponents of other, usually fringe beliefs, such as homeopathy or the moon landing hoax.
posted by futz at 4:55 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
The only explanation that I can think of is that all of the uneducated voters tuned in for the first debate and thought, "hey, this guy seems reasonable!".
Also his use of the Gish Gallop debate technique:
Gish has been characterized as using a rapid-fire approach during a debate, presenting arguments and changing topics very quickly. Eugenie Scott, executive director of the National Center for Science Education, has dubbed this approach the "Gish Gallop," describing it as "where the creationist is allowed to run on for 45 minutes or an hour, spewing forth torrents of error that the evolutionist hasn't a prayer of refuting in the format of a debate" and criticized Gish for failing to answer objections raised by his opponents. The phrase "Gish Gallop" has come to be used as a pejorative to describe similar debate styles employed by proponents of other, usually fringe beliefs, such as homeopathy or the moon landing hoax.
posted by futz at 4:55 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
If I were doing it, I'd pick from a few different counties and cities with demographic profiles that match the way different communities live in the US.
So you want them to fly in people from all over to ask questions? That's no longer a typical town hall style format. Which, hey, fine. But it seems like a pretty radical change.
The real reason Nassau was picked is undoubtedly twofold. One, because it is a typical swing county. Swing counties tend to be affluent suburbs with a bunch of white people. That's a political reality. Two, because its racial demographics more or less match the nation as a whole. That's ass covering to try to avoid exactly the "too white" charge you're making. So clearly unsuccesful.
I hate pandering to these idiotic swing counties, too, but I understand why they do it and it's a pretty inescapable part of the current electoral system. Kind of like how they always have those shitty Iowa pander debates. Iowa is far more unrepresentative than Nassau County but we're stuck with that crap too.
posted by Justinian at 4:55 PM on October 16, 2012
So you want them to fly in people from all over to ask questions? That's no longer a typical town hall style format. Which, hey, fine. But it seems like a pretty radical change.
The real reason Nassau was picked is undoubtedly twofold. One, because it is a typical swing county. Swing counties tend to be affluent suburbs with a bunch of white people. That's a political reality. Two, because its racial demographics more or less match the nation as a whole. That's ass covering to try to avoid exactly the "too white" charge you're making. So clearly unsuccesful.
I hate pandering to these idiotic swing counties, too, but I understand why they do it and it's a pretty inescapable part of the current electoral system. Kind of like how they always have those shitty Iowa pander debates. Iowa is far more unrepresentative than Nassau County but we're stuck with that crap too.
posted by Justinian at 4:55 PM on October 16, 2012
So you want them to fly in people from all over to ask questions? That's no longer a typical town hall style format. Which, hey, fine. But it seems like a pretty radical change.
New York City is *right there.* What, twenty minutes on the train on a bad day?
posted by gerryblog at 4:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
New York City is *right there.* What, twenty minutes on the train on a bad day?
posted by gerryblog at 4:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Iowa is far more unrepresentative than Nassau County but we're stuck with that crap too.
Now we're talking. There are problems with representality throughout the system, but this is the one annoying me tonight.
posted by gerryblog at 4:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Now we're talking. There are problems with representality throughout the system, but this is the one annoying me tonight.
posted by gerryblog at 4:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
NinJew: plus isn't there an actual mefite in attendance as well? so that has to mean it will go well..
Yes, The Whelk will be there hanging out in the spin room, I believe. Hopefully he checks in and gives us some "man on the scene" commentary.
Knowing The Whelk, or The Whelk-y, as I like to call him, he'll probably end up drinking scotch with Obama after the debate.
posted by Skygazer at 4:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Yes, The Whelk will be there hanging out in the spin room, I believe. Hopefully he checks in and gives us some "man on the scene" commentary.
Knowing The Whelk, or The Whelk-y, as I like to call him, he'll probably end up drinking scotch with Obama after the debate.
posted by Skygazer at 4:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
One debate gave willard this bump?
I read somewhere that Romney was treading up before the debate, but I can't find the link now.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:01 PM on October 16, 2012
I read somewhere that Romney was treading up before the debate, but I can't find the link now.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:01 PM on October 16, 2012
There is no county in America where you can draw a local sample properly representative of the entire country. Like anyone wants to fly 100 swing voters into one place for a TV appearance. If that really was the intention they'd just tape record their questions.
posted by Hollywood Upstairs Medical College at 5:01 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Hollywood Upstairs Medical College at 5:01 PM on October 16, 2012
They should have a town hall style debate in South Central L.A. On one side of the room would be people dressed in blue; on the other, those dressed in red. The candidates would sit in the middle.
posted by perhapses at 5:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by perhapses at 5:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
Like anyone wants to fly 100 swing voters into one place for a TV appearance.
That wouldn't be cost prohibitive, and wouldn't be necessary. New York City is very close and would by itself have tons of opportunity for diversity. And there are tons of counties within driving distance besides.
If that really was the intention they'd just tape record their questions.
That would also be better than deliberately skewing the whole thing to rich white people.
posted by gerryblog at 5:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
That wouldn't be cost prohibitive, and wouldn't be necessary. New York City is very close and would by itself have tons of opportunity for diversity. And there are tons of counties within driving distance besides.
If that really was the intention they'd just tape record their questions.
That would also be better than deliberately skewing the whole thing to rich white people.
posted by gerryblog at 5:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
They should have the debate here in Fairfield County, CT, just across the Sound. We have a diverse population, including both hedge fund managers and bankers.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 5:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by monju_bosatsu at 5:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
Debate hall temp has been negotiated to be between 62 and 64 degrees (wear your long johns).
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 5:06 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 5:06 PM on October 16, 2012
Is there a reliable youtube link for the debate? C-span failed me for the VP debate.
posted by futz at 5:08 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by futz at 5:08 PM on October 16, 2012
They should have the debate here in Fairfield County, CT
Hah, that's where I grew up. You forgot insurance executives.
posted by Justinian at 5:08 PM on October 16, 2012
Hah, that's where I grew up. You forgot insurance executives.
posted by Justinian at 5:08 PM on October 16, 2012
"Uh, thanks for taking my question. I guess I want to know: The Hammers--the Hammers is the nickname of what English Football club? Y'know?"
posted by maxwelton at 5:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by maxwelton at 5:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
If either candidate answers any question with "Toxteth O'Grady, USA" I will send them all my money.
posted by delfin at 5:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by delfin at 5:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Chris Hayes just dropped the 12th richest county stat on MSNBC, having retweeted my tweet about it earlier. I'll declare victory here, I think.
He proposed we have a town hall debate in the Bronx, which I'd love to see too.
posted by gerryblog at 5:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
He proposed we have a town hall debate in the Bronx, which I'd love to see too.
posted by gerryblog at 5:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Hah, that's where I grew up. You forgot insurance executives.
Don't leave out the equestrian hobbyists and country club golfers! "Mr. Romney, where did Rafalca go wrong, and how will she bring home the gold next time?"
posted by sallybrown at 5:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Don't leave out the equestrian hobbyists and country club golfers! "Mr. Romney, where did Rafalca go wrong, and how will she bring home the gold next time?"
posted by sallybrown at 5:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
That would also be better than deliberately skewing the whole thing to rich white people.
But they're the ones who are undecided! On the one hand, social issues that matter dearly to them. On the other hand, money.
They need to the debates to feel better about voting against the social issues they hold dear and for the money that they crave like a tick craves blood from a bull's ball sack.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
But they're the ones who are undecided! On the one hand, social issues that matter dearly to them. On the other hand, money.
They need to the debates to feel better about voting against the social issues they hold dear and for the money that they crave like a tick craves blood from a bull's ball sack.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
He proposed we have a town hall debate in the Bronx,
In Spanish?
posted by ceribus peribus at 5:17 PM on October 16, 2012
In Spanish?
posted by ceribus peribus at 5:17 PM on October 16, 2012
That wouldn't be cost prohibitive, and wouldn't be necessary. New York City is very close and would by itself have tons of opportunity for diversity. And there are tons of counties within driving distance besides.
There's lots of opportunity for diversity right there in Nassau county. There are a lot of people there, even if on average they're richer than the country as a whole.
posted by Jahaza at 5:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
There's lots of opportunity for diversity right there in Nassau county. There are a lot of people there, even if on average they're richer than the country as a whole.
posted by Jahaza at 5:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
If either candidate answers any question with "Toxteth O'Grady, USA" I will send them all my money.Final question, who holds the record for the world's stickiest bogey?
posted by Jehan at 5:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I was reading the debate agreement. I know it doesn't mean shit-all, but I was still amused to see that one party is "Obama for America", and the other "Romney for President". Way to work the messaging, Romney.
posted by Lemurrhea at 5:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by Lemurrhea at 5:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
They need to the debates to feel better about voting against the social issues they hold dear and for the money that they crave like a tick craves blood from a bull's ball sack.
Sadly, there is more than a little bit of truth to this.
posted by Justinian at 5:21 PM on October 16, 2012
Sadly, there is more than a little bit of truth to this.
posted by Justinian at 5:21 PM on October 16, 2012
Chris Hayes just dropped the 12th richest county stat on MSNBC, having retweeted my tweet about it earlier.
Crazy! I don't think that just because those folks are wealthy that it means they won't ask good questions, or that it presumes that they are for or against either candidate.
posted by cashman at 5:22 PM on October 16, 2012
Crazy! I don't think that just because those folks are wealthy that it means they won't ask good questions, or that it presumes that they are for or against either candidate.
posted by cashman at 5:22 PM on October 16, 2012
Jahaza, that's true. We'll see how well Gallup did in selecting. I'm predicting they did a terrible job, and that we'll get a ton of questions about war and the deficit and almost nothing about other issues.
posted by gerryblog at 5:22 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by gerryblog at 5:22 PM on October 16, 2012
Crazy! I don't think that just because those folks are wealthy that it means they won't ask good questions, or that it presumes that they are for or against either candidate.
I'll have you know I already declared victory, but sure, there's diversity even in homogenous communities. But it would never occur to the media to hold a debate in the 12th poorest county in the US.
posted by gerryblog at 5:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'll have you know I already declared victory, but sure, there's diversity even in homogenous communities. But it would never occur to the media to hold a debate in the 12th poorest county in the US.
posted by gerryblog at 5:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
The earthquake was just Romney shifting his positions at the Boston hq.
posted by humanfont at 5:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 5:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
How does Nassau rank on a scale of most expensive media markets?
posted by ceribus peribus at 5:27 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by ceribus peribus at 5:27 PM on October 16, 2012
Besides, the Jill Stein arrest has already been mentioned here.
posted by futz at 5:27 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by futz at 5:27 PM on October 16, 2012
I'm predicting they did a terrible job, and that we'll get a ton of questions about war and the deficit and almost nothing about other issues.
If there's no question relating to women's issues beyond "abortion: yea or nay," I'm going to be seriously pissed. I guess I might as well go ahead and prepare myself. In the past year we've seen the "legitimate" rape brouhaha, equal pay discussions, the war on Planned Parenthood, Republicans shutting Sandra "Slut" Fluke out of the birth control hearing, opposition to VAWA, etc, and yet it doesn't seem important enough to merit mention.
posted by sallybrown at 5:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
If there's no question relating to women's issues beyond "abortion: yea or nay," I'm going to be seriously pissed. I guess I might as well go ahead and prepare myself. In the past year we've seen the "legitimate" rape brouhaha, equal pay discussions, the war on Planned Parenthood, Republicans shutting Sandra "Slut" Fluke out of the birth control hearing, opposition to VAWA, etc, and yet it doesn't seem important enough to merit mention.
posted by sallybrown at 5:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
So because I can't get over the debate agreements and I got nothing else to do while we wait:
What would happen if one of the candidates decided to go against it? Like suppose Obama just flat-out asked Romney a direct followup? I can't picture Romney refusing to answer it on the grounds of the contract, because that shows weakness and such. And I can't see them backing out of the next debate for the same reason. And there's no penalty attached to the contract. So what's stopping it? Just a basic sense of fair play?
posted by Lemurrhea at 5:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
What would happen if one of the candidates decided to go against it? Like suppose Obama just flat-out asked Romney a direct followup? I can't picture Romney refusing to answer it on the grounds of the contract, because that shows weakness and such. And I can't see them backing out of the next debate for the same reason. And there's no penalty attached to the contract. So what's stopping it? Just a basic sense of fair play?
posted by Lemurrhea at 5:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
If there's no question relating to women's issues beyond "abortion: yea or nay,"
"Your running mates are both Catholic. How does their faith inform their decisions about women's issues? And be specific."
posted by gerryblog at 5:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
"Your running mates are both Catholic. How does their faith inform their decisions about women's issues? And be specific."
posted by gerryblog at 5:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Just a basic sense of fair play?
I think there's also a mutually beneficial, long-term relationship between the parties they don't want to put at risk -- basically the same reason people in Congress keep their promises to each other even when they're not enforceable. Blowing up the gentlemen's agreements is perceived to be bad for the country, so they don't.
posted by gerryblog at 5:31 PM on October 16, 2012
I think there's also a mutually beneficial, long-term relationship between the parties they don't want to put at risk -- basically the same reason people in Congress keep their promises to each other even when they're not enforceable. Blowing up the gentlemen's agreements is perceived to be bad for the country, so they don't.
posted by gerryblog at 5:31 PM on October 16, 2012
"Your running mates are both Catholic. How does their faith inform their decisions about women's issues? And be specific."
"My running mate's faith is strong and he holds firmly to it, but what really matters this election to voters is my three-legged dog."
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:33 PM on October 16, 2012
"My running mate's faith is strong and he holds firmly to it, but what really matters this election to voters is my three-legged dog."
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:33 PM on October 16, 2012
The ads are starting now; the debate begins in thirty minutes.
posted by ceribus peribus at 5:33 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by ceribus peribus at 5:33 PM on October 16, 2012
9pm EST.
I've got 3 windows: C-SPAN, this thread, Chile vs Argentina World Cup Quals. Plus Long Trail Ale. I'm all set.
posted by shortfuse at 5:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I've got 3 windows: C-SPAN, this thread, Chile vs Argentina World Cup Quals. Plus Long Trail Ale. I'm all set.
posted by shortfuse at 5:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm pretty darn excited. Obama knows he has to knock this out of the park.
posted by chaff at 5:34 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by chaff at 5:34 PM on October 16, 2012
Jahaza, that's true. We'll see how well Gallup did in selecting. I'm predicting they did a terrible job, and that we'll get a ton of questions about war and the deficit and almost nothing about other issues.
'How will your Presidency affect the taxes on my sailboats and horses?'
posted by winna at 5:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
'How will your Presidency affect the taxes on my sailboats and horses?'
posted by winna at 5:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
And be specific.
Let me know how that works out for you.
posted by xbonesgt at 5:35 PM on October 16, 2012
Let me know how that works out for you.
posted by xbonesgt at 5:35 PM on October 16, 2012
Anybody taking bets on which Romney shows up to this debate? Will it be Bain Mitt, Massachusetts Mitt, Severe Conservative Mitt, or newly Moderate Mitt?
posted by wierdo at 5:35 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by wierdo at 5:35 PM on October 16, 2012
On CSPAN, the Chairmen of the CPD are explaining to the crowd how the whole thing will work.
I note that, much like the candidates, one man has a red tie and one man has a blue tie.
posted by Lemurrhea at 5:36 PM on October 16, 2012
I note that, much like the candidates, one man has a red tie and one man has a blue tie.
posted by Lemurrhea at 5:36 PM on October 16, 2012
Nate Silver: Pre-debate benchmark: Obama would have a 62% chance of winning an election held today per our "now-cast", Romney 38%. After the last few decades, Democrats pretty much have to be prohibitive favorites to believe they even have a chance.
posted by gerryblog at 5:36 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by gerryblog at 5:36 PM on October 16, 2012
Does anyone know if there's a low-bandwidth version available of the C-SPAN stream?
posted by Anything at 5:38 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Anything at 5:38 PM on October 16, 2012
"I was kind of hoping one of the debates would be moderated by three teen girls."
I dunno. I thought What's Her Face made some really salient points with regard to auditing the Fed.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 5:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
I dunno. I thought What's Her Face made some really salient points with regard to auditing the Fed.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 5:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
"Uh, thanks for taking my question. I guess I want to know: The Hammers--the Hammers is the nickname of what English Football club? Y'know?"
The second debate took a turn when Governor Romney ripped open his shirt to reveal a large tattoo reading "Millwall" then dropped his pants yelling, "I'M BLOWING BUBBLES I'M BLOWING BUBBLES"" while farting.
"This is a game changer," said FOX anchor Britt Hume, "Governor Romney has channeled the zeitgeist of the American voter with this one move. President Obama was speechless, what a joke!"
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
The second debate took a turn when Governor Romney ripped open his shirt to reveal a large tattoo reading "Millwall" then dropped his pants yelling, "I'M BLOWING BUBBLES I'M BLOWING BUBBLES"" while farting.
"This is a game changer," said FOX anchor Britt Hume, "Governor Romney has channeled the zeitgeist of the American voter with this one move. President Obama was speechless, what a joke!"
posted by robocop is bleeding at 5:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I downloaded Chrome to run Metafilter alongside my Firefox windows just in anticipation of this thread.
posted by triggerfinger at 5:40 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by triggerfinger at 5:40 PM on October 16, 2012
I'm hoping Obama has a real Clinton moment where he walks up to a questioner and really connects with them on a personal level.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 5:43 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 5:43 PM on October 16, 2012
I went to an educational talk on Roman water under the theory I should do something other than refresh the thread and my train is now TWELVE MINUTES LATE and this is heartbreaking-- update fast and fleetly, all ye who enter here!
posted by jetlagaddict at 5:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by jetlagaddict at 5:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Anything: maybe the C-SPAN live (flash) radio feed? You won't get the video, of course, but it would be less bandwidth.
posted by ceribus peribus at 5:44 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by ceribus peribus at 5:44 PM on October 16, 2012
When these debate posts get to stay, I always feel like we're getting away with something. Like the mods are like, "ok, let them have their fun."
posted by Lutoslawski at 5:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by Lutoslawski at 5:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
"Well, I didn't think much good would come out of this debate, but I have to say I was wrong – America is certainly a better place today because of what happened tonight. If it weren't for this historic evening, triggerfinger might never have installed a browser that was actually stable and clean."
posted by koeselitz at 5:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by koeselitz at 5:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
Part of me is anxious because this is serious business and people's lives will be affected by the election.
Part of me is fascinated to see what happens and if my understanding of the election is correct.
And part of me hasn't been this nervous since before Game 3 of the 2008 World Series & right before the Iggles lost to the Patriots in the 2005 Superbowl.
posted by JKevinKing at 5:46 PM on October 16, 2012
Part of me is fascinated to see what happens and if my understanding of the election is correct.
And part of me hasn't been this nervous since before Game 3 of the 2008 World Series & right before the Iggles lost to the Patriots in the 2005 Superbowl.
posted by JKevinKing at 5:46 PM on October 16, 2012
ceribus peribus: Thanks for the suggestion; I do want video, though. Currently I think I'll be watching the ABC stream on Youtube.
posted by Anything at 5:47 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Anything at 5:47 PM on October 16, 2012
I'm hoping Obama has a real Clinton moment where he walks up to a questioner and really connects with them on a personal level.
But then Romney will try to do that too and it will basically turn into this.
posted by triggerfinger at 5:47 PM on October 16, 2012
But then Romney will try to do that too and it will basically turn into this.
posted by triggerfinger at 5:47 PM on October 16, 2012
Mr. Romney, could you tell me about how your tax plan affects my fetus?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:47 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:47 PM on October 16, 2012
OH BOY. TIme for the fate of the freeworld to boil down to some hand gestures and dodged questions. CAN'T WAIT.
posted by hellojed at 5:49 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by hellojed at 5:49 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
No no no not again debate vs. playoff baseball no no fuuuuuuuuck
posted by vrakatar at 5:49 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by vrakatar at 5:49 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
When these debate posts get to stay, I always feel like we're getting away with something. Like the mods are like, "ok, let them have their fun."
After the election we'll all be back to the 1,2,3 Magic rules and we'll be told we have five minutes before we have to stop playing and go be grownups.
posted by winna at 5:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
After the election we'll all be back to the 1,2,3 Magic rules and we'll be told we have five minutes before we have to stop playing and go be grownups.
posted by winna at 5:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
There's room for both, vrakatar! :)
posted by JKevinKing at 5:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by JKevinKing at 5:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm approaching this with dread. Debate 1 should have been a shitfest with both parties scraming "you're a liar", so I fear that's been deferred to this debate.
posted by amuseDetachment at 5:52 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by amuseDetachment at 5:52 PM on October 16, 2012
Both Michelle Obama and Ann Romney are wearing the same shade of hot pink. What could this mean?
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 5:52 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 5:52 PM on October 16, 2012
Why does the debate stage look like the set of "American Gladiators?" is that on purpose?
posted by hellojed at 5:53 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by hellojed at 5:53 PM on October 16, 2012
Metafilter & dvr for debates & tv for baseball
posted by JKevinKing at 5:53 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by JKevinKing at 5:53 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Also: RE American Gladiators: Romney should just call himself "Turbo" and break out a tennis ball launcher.
posted by hellojed at 5:54 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by hellojed at 5:54 PM on October 16, 2012
Both Michelle Obama and Ann Romney are wearing the same shade of hot pink. What could this mean?
If I remember my 90s cheerleader movies, it means the plucky underdog (Romney) is going to come up with a new routine right before the big event and win everyone's heart.
I don't see it.
posted by Lemurrhea at 5:54 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
If I remember my 90s cheerleader movies, it means the plucky underdog (Romney) is going to come up with a new routine right before the big event and win everyone's heart.
I don't see it.
posted by Lemurrhea at 5:54 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Who is that lady with the enormous earrings?
Also, I hate to remark on someone's personal appearance, but Ms Crowley looks fantastic tonight. I LOVE her hair like that.
posted by winna at 5:54 PM on October 16, 2012
Also, I hate to remark on someone's personal appearance, but Ms Crowley looks fantastic tonight. I LOVE her hair like that.
posted by winna at 5:54 PM on October 16, 2012
From Sam Stein: wow, gallup breaks down regional support. East: Obama +4, Midwest: Obama +4, West: Obama +6, South: Obama -22 bit.ly/S1RUTW
posted by gerryblog at 5:55 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by gerryblog at 5:55 PM on October 16, 2012
I'm not near a TV. Is Obama awake?
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:56 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:56 PM on October 16, 2012
Ohhhh the South. I love my Southern husband but I really hate the South.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Break a leg, Mr. President.
posted by Golden Eternity at 5:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Golden Eternity at 5:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
If I was running for President, I would insist that each candidate come out to theme music. And then pull something like GY!BE, just so I have like 10 minutes to work the crowd while the song plays.
posted by Lemurrhea at 5:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Lemurrhea at 5:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Sweet jesus, the Tigers haven't scored yet? Now I'm anxious.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 5:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 5:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Both Michelle Obama and Ann Romney are wearing the same shade of hot pink. What could this mean?
Breast cancer month.
posted by dirigibleman at 5:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Breast cancer month.
posted by dirigibleman at 5:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Oh god CSPAN the suspense is killing me.
posted by pemberkins at 5:59 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by pemberkins at 5:59 PM on October 16, 2012
Metafilter & dvr for debates & tv for baseball
I do it old school on a.m. radio with John and Suze. But good idea to dvr the other thing.
posted by vrakatar at 5:59 PM on October 16, 2012
I do it old school on a.m. radio with John and Suze. But good idea to dvr the other thing.
posted by vrakatar at 5:59 PM on October 16, 2012
These debates are digging into my sleeping time. There we go!
posted by ersatz at 5:59 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by ersatz at 5:59 PM on October 16, 2012
I don't know how to handle the awkward silence so I'm just going to start drinking now.
posted by pemberkins at 6:00 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by pemberkins at 6:00 PM on October 16, 2012
I can't watch this because I'm with republican relatives who I have to be related to after all of this is over. Is this where I can find out more?
posted by jph at 6:00 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by jph at 6:00 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ok, I have my bottle of pellegrino, my lemon zest, my browser with tabs open to CNN and CSPAN...but Cspan is down atm, and this thread. I'm all set. Bring on the smackdown, Mr. President. We're all counting on you down here.
posted by dejah420 at 6:00 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by dejah420 at 6:00 PM on October 16, 2012
"Make sure questions get answered"
Good luck with that, Ms Crowley
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 6:02 PM on October 16, 2012
Good luck with that, Ms Crowley
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 6:02 PM on October 16, 2012
Two minutes to answer. LOL
posted by triggerfinger at 6:02 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by triggerfinger at 6:02 PM on October 16, 2012
Does anyone have an online feed more reliable that YouTube's? It's laggy for me.
posted by mudpuppie at 6:02 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by mudpuppie at 6:02 PM on October 16, 2012
I can't help but think of the SNL skit whenever I hear about "uncommitted voters".
posted by Phire at 6:03 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Phire at 6:03 PM on October 16, 2012
I have my Dog Whistle Bingo card in front of me. I'm hoping the word "uppity" is used quickly by a pundit tonight so I can claim the center square.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Tying it all together, I've got some 8% pumpkin beer.
posted by notsnot at 6:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by notsnot at 6:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Obama, you actually smiled! Good start.
posted by pemberkins at 6:03 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by pemberkins at 6:03 PM on October 16, 2012
Let the farce begin!!!!!
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 6:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 6:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Oh man. Waves of awkward Romney Fremdshamen blowing off the screen already.
posted by Skygazer at 6:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Skygazer at 6:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
The UK gets a socialist feed without lag.
Now go go go!
posted by ersatz at 6:03 PM on October 16, 2012
Now go go go!
posted by ersatz at 6:03 PM on October 16, 2012
Has anyone woken up Lehrer for this one?
posted by inigo2 at 6:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by inigo2 at 6:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ha, Mitt makin a play for Pennsylvania by mentioning Philadelphia.
posted by cashman at 6:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by cashman at 6:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Jeremy is so freaking nervous.
posted by saul wright at 6:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by saul wright at 6:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
I am drinking Lips of Faith Tart Lychee and am ready!
posted by Windigo at 6:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Windigo at 6:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Smarmy bastard
posted by triggerfinger at 6:04 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by triggerfinger at 6:04 PM on October 16, 2012
Didn't Ryan's budget eviscerate Pell grants?
posted by Rhaomi at 6:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Rhaomi at 6:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
And the non-answers are out of the gate!
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 6:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 6:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
He's trying to do the "walk toward you because I care" Clinton thing
posted by triggerfinger at 6:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by triggerfinger at 6:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
yes Romney, thanks for illustrating the problem that this guy JUST EXPLAINED TO YOU.
posted by iamkimiam at 6:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by iamkimiam at 6:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
cashman: "Ha, Mitt makin a play for Pennsylvania by mentioning Philadelphia."
Hah, like most of PA admits that Phily is part of the state.
posted by octothorpe at 6:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Hah, like most of PA admits that Phily is part of the state.
posted by octothorpe at 6:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
That was a hardcore non-answer. "I know how to make good jobs, trust me."
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Wow Romney is really getting specific. Great answer
posted by Flashman at 6:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Flashman at 6:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I have jobs, I can make jobs, I know what it takes to bring back jobs....HOW? HOW? HOW?
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Fremdschamen: A German term which describes the process of being vicariously embarrassed by someone else. For example when somebody's concept for a great party gag goes terrible wrong and you watch him fail in the middle of all of his friends.
(I had to look that up, Skygazer)
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
(I had to look that up, Skygazer)
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
"I know what it takes to bring jobs back..."
Great! WHY ARE YOU KEEPING IT A SECRET?
posted by longtime_lurker at 6:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [21 favorites]
Great! WHY ARE YOU KEEPING IT A SECRET?
posted by longtime_lurker at 6:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [21 favorites]
Anybody taking bets on which Romney shows up to this debate? Will it be Bain Mitt, Massachusetts Mitt, Severe Conservative Mitt, or newly Moderate Mitt?
Looks like Moderate MittBot has been deployed.
posted by winna at 6:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Looks like Moderate MittBot has been deployed.
posted by winna at 6:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Oh gee isn't it swell that Romney wants Jeremy to get a job. No actual plan, just being a nice guy. Isn't he sweet.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I know what it takes to create good jobs. Outsourcing to China.
posted by ersatz at 6:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by ersatz at 6:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Mitt's laugh is like nails on a blackboard.
posted by HuronBob at 6:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by HuronBob at 6:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Fox tomorrow: Obama so rude. Not thanking Romney, the crowd, Crowley, the good people of Nassau County, etc. etc. etc.
posted by shortfuse at 6:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by shortfuse at 6:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Pell grants? Since when do you want to keep those? Since you found out you were debating at a college?
posted by Miko at 6:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [15 favorites]
posted by Miko at 6:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [15 favorites]
Jeremy aint trying to manufacture nothin, Mr. President.
posted by cashman at 6:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by cashman at 6:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
On the attack - "Governor Romney said, let's let Detroit go bankrupt."
posted by koeselitz at 6:06 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by koeselitz at 6:06 PM on October 16, 2012
octothorpe: " Hah, like most of PA admits that Phily is part of the state."
Without Philly, it's West Virginia with 10% more teeth and black-and-gold instead of blue-and-gold.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:06 PM on October 16, 2012
Without Philly, it's West Virginia with 10% more teeth and black-and-gold instead of blue-and-gold.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:06 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney "I know what it takes I know what it takes I know what it takes" THERE'S NO BEEF HERE
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 6:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 6:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Listening to this on just audio as I switch from tab to tab is really horrifying.
posted by mynameisluka at 6:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mynameisluka at 6:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm the guy that got rich firing people, but trust me, I also know how to create jobs. How? Well, I just know.
posted by Rhomboid at 6:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Rhomboid at 6:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Aaaaaand the Youtube feed is borked.
posted by en forme de poire at 6:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by en forme de poire at 6:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Obama is speaking too fast. It's sounding forced.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:07 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:07 PM on October 16, 2012
I was kind of hoping one of the debates would be moderated by three teen girls.
I find that a genuinely interesting proposition. Would the Big Time Politicians tell bald lies into the faces of wide-eyed children?
posted by zennie at 6:08 PM on October 16, 2012
I find that a genuinely interesting proposition. Would the Big Time Politicians tell bald lies into the faces of wide-eyed children?
posted by zennie at 6:08 PM on October 16, 2012
Obama should have asked what his major was. They both should have.
posted by cashman at 6:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by cashman at 6:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
Obama is far more energetic.
CROWLEY GOES FOR THE FOLLOWUP!
posted by winna at 6:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
CROWLEY GOES FOR THE FOLLOWUP!
posted by winna at 6:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
OOOOOH FOLLOW-UP!
posted by sallybrown at 6:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 6:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Oooh, Candy Crowley is already demanding clarification and better answers! This bodes well.
posted by koeselitz at 6:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by koeselitz at 6:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Ooh, Candy asked a pretty awesome question about the long-term unemployed there.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:08 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:08 PM on October 16, 2012
CNN Response-o-Meter pegged high for all of Obama's answer
posted by mikepop at 6:08 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by mikepop at 6:08 PM on October 16, 2012
Obamas ratings with voters going well. CNN blowing up. CSPAN still down. Gonna try for the utubes.
posted by dejah420 at 6:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by dejah420 at 6:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Like you say, CANDY....
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:08 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:08 PM on October 16, 2012
Yeah, so Obama isn't looking so hot. He has the wrong attitude, Romney looks more sure of himself.
posted by amuseDetachment at 6:09 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by amuseDetachment at 6:09 PM on October 16, 2012
5-point plan, drink
posted by King Bee at 6:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by King Bee at 6:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney says he knows how to create jobs but he won't tell us HOW he's going to do it.
posted by Daddy-O at 6:09 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Daddy-O at 6:09 PM on October 16, 2012
I'm the guy that got rich firing people, but trust me, I also know how to create jobs. How? Well, I just know.
Jeremy, you're going to love living in the dormitories at the factory. It'll feel just like college again! The more roommates, the more fun, during the two hours a day that you're granted for sleeping.
posted by gladly at 6:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
Jeremy, you're going to love living in the dormitories at the factory. It'll feel just like college again! The more roommates, the more fun, during the two hours a day that you're granted for sleeping.
posted by gladly at 6:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
Aw, I bet that kid doesn't want to work in manufacturing. I feel like Obama didn't do as much as Romney did to directly reassure him—even if what Romney said was lies.
posted by limeonaire at 6:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by limeonaire at 6:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"When I was governor of Massachusetts"
The same Massachusetts he's so unpopular in that he's not even bothering to campaign there.
posted by homunculus at 6:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
The same Massachusetts he's so unpopular in that he's not even bothering to campaign there.
posted by homunculus at 6:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
C-Span is working fine for me.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:09 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:09 PM on October 16, 2012
Mitt Romney is the most lying liar of lyingness that ever lied down and vomited lies on your carpet of Truth.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
Is this the same "five point plan" that was made of wishes instead of ideas?
posted by almostmanda at 6:09 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by almostmanda at 6:09 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney's still not saying anything.
posted by octothorpe at 6:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by octothorpe at 6:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
FIVE POINT PLAN (FPP)!!!
posted by JoeXIII007 at 6:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by JoeXIII007 at 6:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Please call him on aspiring to the 12 million jobs that will be there regardless of what anyone does.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Dunno, Romney's plan has 5 Points. That is pretty convincing.
posted by Ad hominem at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Ad hominem at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012
Just isn't true!
posted by homunculus at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by homunculus at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012
"Just isn't true"
Obama comes out swinging.
posted by Phire at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Obama comes out swinging.
posted by Phire at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ok this Obama is way better. He better keep this up.
posted by amuseDetachment at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by amuseDetachment at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Nice eyeroll from the fellow in the back, there.
posted by pemberkins at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by pemberkins at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012
The first "LIAR!" has been unleashed. Go, Mr. President!
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
JUST ISN'T TRUE. Boo-yah.
posted by longtime_lurker at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by longtime_lurker at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012
Obama's second segment much better than first - more fired up, more like his speeches. Slightly less hurried.
posted by shortfuse at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by shortfuse at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"What Gov. Romney said just wasn't true" Yesssssssss!!!!!!!!!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
"He doesn't have a five point plan. He has a one point plan....to make sure the people at the top play by different rules." WOW.
posted by Phire at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [14 favorites]
posted by Phire at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [14 favorites]
Huh, Romney claiming that the President did what he suggested on Detroit. Not sure the specific details on bankruptcy law will be clear to voters.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012
BURN, "he doesn't have a 5-point plan, he has a 1-point plan"
posted by King Bee at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by King Bee at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Obama: "What Romney says just isn't true!" Finally!
posted by dejah420 at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by dejah420 at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012
Yeah Obama call out the lies!
posted by insectosaurus at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by insectosaurus at 6:10 PM on October 16, 2012
Say that over and over. Drop the L-bomb. Let's do this thing.
posted by longtime_lurker at 6:11 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by longtime_lurker at 6:11 PM on October 16, 2012
Like in previous debates, my live feed is behind everyone else's.
I just got to Candy asking the follow-up. Romney looks like he's trying to get those lasers to shoot out of his eyes to kill her.
posted by meese at 6:11 PM on October 16, 2012
I just got to Candy asking the follow-up. Romney looks like he's trying to get those lasers to shoot out of his eyes to kill her.
posted by meese at 6:11 PM on October 16, 2012
He's talking about 7-11's bankruptcy? Aren't they owned by the Japanese now?
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 6:11 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 6:11 PM on October 16, 2012
NICE Bain burn.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:11 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by jason_steakums at 6:11 PM on October 16, 2012
Somebody forgot to take the Romneybot out of repeat mode.
"How will I get a job?"
"Yes, you'll need a job!"
"How will these long term unemployed get jobs?"
"We have a lot of long term unemployed people who need jobs!"
posted by ceribus peribus at 6:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
"How will I get a job?"
"Yes, you'll need a job!"
"How will these long term unemployed get jobs?"
"We have a lot of long term unemployed people who need jobs!"
posted by ceribus peribus at 6:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
BARACK JUST KICKED ALL KINDS OF ASS ON THAT DETROIT QUESTION! GET HIM MR. PRESIDENT!
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Ooh, Romney's playing interrupting cow again!
posted by wierdo at 6:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by wierdo at 6:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
MITT-BOT WILL DECIDE WHEN MITT-BOT SPEAK
posted by tonycpsu at 6:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by tonycpsu at 6:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Haha, and Candy does not let Romney speak!
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
Can't wait for the media to talk about how rude Romney is, like they did Biden. Cause they will, right?
posted by inigo2 at 6:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by inigo2 at 6:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Candy is not a puffball
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
I think by the end of this Obama will hit his stride and sound even stronger and more like when he was challenging McCain.
posted by cashman at 6:11 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by cashman at 6:11 PM on October 16, 2012
OMG the accents. I miss the NY area.
posted by Miko at 6:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by Miko at 6:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Poor Phillip Tricolla. So nervous.
posted by Skygazer at 6:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Skygazer at 6:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Rude move, Romster, pushing Candy Crowley like that.
posted by sallybrown at 6:12 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by sallybrown at 6:12 PM on October 16, 2012
DON'T LET HIM INTERRUPT YOU CANDY!
posted by triggerfinger at 6:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by triggerfinger at 6:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
You go, Candy Crowley ... don't let Flip Romney steamroll you! You're in charge!
posted by ericb at 6:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by ericb at 6:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Turning a question into oil prices about sustainable energy. Nice.
posted by Phire at 6:12 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Phire at 6:12 PM on October 16, 2012
Candy Imma let you finish...
posted by ersatz at 6:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by ersatz at 6:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
though really should gas drilling be what he brings up in NY?
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:13 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:13 PM on October 16, 2012
This gas price question is a tough one – it appeals strongly to the lowest common denominator. I'm hoping Obama can pull this one off.
posted by koeselitz at 6:13 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by koeselitz at 6:13 PM on October 16, 2012
I hope obama goes for ROmney's jugular again. I'm glad Crowley held the line their with his interruppting cow bullshit.
posted by Skygazer at 6:13 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Skygazer at 6:13 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm retreating to a bar called balls the cat to hide from televised debate coverage.
posted by mrzarquon at 6:13 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by mrzarquon at 6:13 PM on October 16, 2012
Candy should just have a button that cuts the mic out.
posted by ian1977 at 6:13 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 6:13 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
"Romney will say he's got an 'all of the above' plan, but his plan will let the energy companies write the policies."
posted by Phire at 6:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Phire at 6:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
I was kind of hoping Obama would go hardcore free-market and ask if Romney suggests socialist control over prices.
...not that it was a good strategy, but it'd be fun.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
...not that it was a good strategy, but it'd be fun.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ohhh man this is a good, cogent answer! Wow. This is an entirely different debate style, so massively better than last time.
posted by koeselitz at 6:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by koeselitz at 6:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Now Gov. Romney will say...." Ooo nice. Setting the crowd up for the lies to come
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
He's got the oil and gas part, but not the energy part.
posted by triggerfinger at 6:14 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by triggerfinger at 6:14 PM on October 16, 2012
Spoiler: Romney wants to drill everything everywhere.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:14 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:14 PM on October 16, 2012
*prepars to check Solyndra off of his Bingo card*
posted by tonycpsu at 6:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 6:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Way to tie Jeremy into the second answer.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Is it just me or is the audience VERY heavily male?
posted by naoko at 6:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by naoko at 6:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
I've said it before and I'll say it again: The moderator should have a "cut the mike" button. And should use it.
In fact I'll go farther this time: They can see the countdown clock just like we can. Their mikes should be off at all times except between 2:00 and 0:00 on their turns.
If Romney wants to be a "YOU WILL LET ME TALK NOW" jackass, let him do it while no one can hear him.
posted by Flunkie at 6:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [17 favorites]
In fact I'll go farther this time: They can see the countdown clock just like we can. Their mikes should be off at all times except between 2:00 and 0:00 on their turns.
If Romney wants to be a "YOU WILL LET ME TALK NOW" jackass, let him do it while no one can hear him.
posted by Flunkie at 6:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [17 favorites]
How that hell is the president supposed to control the price of gas? Price controls? Nationalize the oil companies?
posted by octothorpe at 6:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 6:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
The knobby thing on the bottom of the CNN screen was high during Obama's answer (high is good) and bottomed out when Romney started talking.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:14 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:14 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney doesn't care much for birds of any size.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
I don't know why people think it's such a bad idea to keep our oil reserves in reserve, and not just for times when prices are a bit high for us.
posted by Miko at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Miko at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Obama could so destroy him for drilling permits... two words: Deepwater Horizon.
I hope he gets to rebut.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I hope he gets to rebut.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
yeah man who wants federal lands to be pristine and to have actual potable water? Yeah, who wants birds in the future?
BIRDS ARE FOR THE WEAK HEAR THAT BIG BIRD
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
BIRDS ARE FOR THE WEAK HEAR THAT BIG BIRD
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
mitt sure hates birds.
posted by changeling at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by changeling at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Mitt is rattled, he's becoming angry mitt. Fantastic. Angry Mitt isn't likeable.
posted by dejah420 at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by dejah420 at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Again with the birds.
posted by mikepop at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by mikepop at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Romney hates migratory birds.
posted by winna at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by winna at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Romney's back to wanting to kill off birds.
posted by inigo2 at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by inigo2 at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
The heck with those stupid birds.
posted by octothorpe at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by octothorpe at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney just can't stop going after birds, big or small.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
The answer started off weak but he framed it well afterwards.
posted by ersatz at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by ersatz at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012
Mr. Coal?
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Those birds were clearly communists.
posted by homunculus at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Mitt's only belief in anything renewable is the belief that the wealthy are a renewable source of votes.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012
I thought we were done with the "drill, baby, drill" shtick four years ago?
Romney hates birds. You heard it here first.
posted by Phire at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney hates birds. You heard it here first.
posted by Phire at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney: Fuck birds.
posted by figurant at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by figurant at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
CNN feed preferred Obama answer
posted by longtime_lurker at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by longtime_lurker at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012
If the oil companies were using one half of their current leases, they'd maybe there'd be a reason to open up more federal land leases. And now into clean coal. Jackass.
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012
Won't anyone thik of the poor poor oil companies
posted by goHermGO at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by goHermGO at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
GOD WHO NEEDS CLEAN AIR, ROMNEY, WE CAN ALL SNIFF PERRI-AIR OUT OF GOLD-PLATED CANS
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
25 birds! And, then there's the big one -- not Mr. Coal. Mr. BIG BIRD!
posted by ericb at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ericb at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Why does Romney keep talking about increasing oil production on federal lands and waters as if that's a good thing? "The right course for America" is not covering everything in soot and oil.
posted by limeonaire at 6:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by limeonaire at 6:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
LEAVE THE BIRDS ALONE!!
posted by estuardo at 6:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by estuardo at 6:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
How that hell is the president supposed to control the price of gas?
That's the problem with the town hall format, you get questions that have a very narrow focus.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:16 PM on October 16, 2012
That's the problem with the town hall format, you get questions that have a very narrow focus.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:16 PM on October 16, 2012
They're coming back precisely because energy costs are HIGH, you dolt.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Maybe Romney was traumatized by a Hitchcock film when he was younger...
posted by Phire at 6:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Phire at 6:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Romney: Fuck birds.
If Mitt loses, FOX can go with the headline "Obama for the Birds"
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:16 PM on October 16, 2012
If Mitt loses, FOX can go with the headline "Obama for the Birds"
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:16 PM on October 16, 2012
North America energy independence is complicated - if you're just using net import/export, then Canada can kind of carry the US without helping you out.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:16 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:16 PM on October 16, 2012
First they came for the birds, and I said nothing, for I am not a bird.
Next they came for the trash-can dwellers, and I said nothing, for I am not a trash-can dweller.
Next they came for the counting vampires, and I said nothing, for I am not a counting vampire.
posted by Flunkie at 6:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [33 favorites]
Next they came for the trash-can dwellers, and I said nothing, for I am not a trash-can dweller.
Next they came for the counting vampires, and I said nothing, for I am not a counting vampire.
posted by Flunkie at 6:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [33 favorites]
I don't understand why it's bad to have increased domestic oil production on private land.
posted by purpleclover at 6:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by purpleclover at 6:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
More drilling, more coal, steam engines, hire some indentured servants, use some fulcrums, get some abacuses.
posted by cashman at 6:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by cashman at 6:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Note that he always says "North American energy independence" (IOW, he's banking on increased production in Canada's tar sands)
posted by wierdo at 6:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by wierdo at 6:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Neither one mentioned safety or regulation of oil/gas drilling.
posted by Pallas Athena at 6:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Pallas Athena at 6:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I can already feel the flock of angry birds.
posted by iamkimiam at 6:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by iamkimiam at 6:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney is blathering on energy. Weird non sequiturs. Forgot his script?
posted by howfar at 6:17 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by howfar at 6:17 PM on October 16, 2012
I like this moderator.
posted by insectosaurus at 6:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by insectosaurus at 6:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
"Very little of what Gov Romney said is true"!!!!
posted by longtime_lurker at 6:17 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by longtime_lurker at 6:17 PM on October 16, 2012
"Very little of what Governor Romney just has ever said is true."
FTFY, Mr. President.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:17 PM on October 16, 2012
FTFY, Mr. President.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:17 PM on October 16, 2012
"You stood in front of a coal plant and said this plant kills, and shut it down. So I try to be consistent."
posted by Phire at 6:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Phire at 6:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Yes, Obama, you are working with the industry. Colluding with them to allow frackers to pollute groundwater.
posted by wierdo at 6:17 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by wierdo at 6:17 PM on October 16, 2012
Ha, very little of what gov romney says is true. Go Mr. Prez!
posted by dejah420 at 6:17 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by dejah420 at 6:17 PM on October 16, 2012
Nice! TALK TO HIS ROBOT LYING BIRD HATING FACE O!
posted by Skygazer at 6:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Skygazer at 6:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
"be consistent" hah! burn.
posted by en forme de poire at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by en forme de poire at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012
Dude, Candy don't take no guff from no one. I love her.
posted by King Bee at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by King Bee at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Heh Heh Natural gas doesn't just appear-- we're encouraging it....there's a fart joke in there somewhere.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm really glad the "call him a liar" camp won the strategy fight.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I don't understand why it's bad to have increased domestic oil production on private land.
BECAUSE BIRDS.
posted by winna at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
BECAUSE BIRDS.
posted by winna at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Obama is hammering it on ever response: "hardly any of what Governor Romney said was true."
posted by koeselitz at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by koeselitz at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012
though does anyone aside from the Queen of England actually carry a pocketbook?
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012
Ha! Candy asked the right question re: gas prices
BAM! Romney a liar says Obama.
posted by ian1977 at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012
BAM! Romney a liar says Obama.
posted by ian1977 at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012
THIS PLANT KILLS
posted by oneirodynia at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by oneirodynia at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012
I think Obama is intentionally walking close to Romney, hoping Romney will get angry enough to take a swing on him.
posted by HuronBob at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by HuronBob at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
I'm loving this Obama. He's landing blow after blow.
posted by Flashman at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Flashman at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012
Obama, it is good you are talking about how you are also eager to fuck the earth with a big drill.
Virility polls well among everyone.
OH SHIT, HE'S CALLING HIM ON BS!
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Virility polls well among everyone.
OH SHIT, HE'S CALLING HIM ON BS!
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"You stood in front of a coal plant and said 'This plant kills"."
Oh me, oh my, this is the hard hitting Obama who wasn't around next week.
And now we have interupting cow..... mutha fucka.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012
Oh me, oh my, this is the hard hitting Obama who wasn't around next week.
And now we have interupting cow..... mutha fucka.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012
It remains to be seen if it will be effective or not, but you certainly can't say Obama is not taking it to Romney, right in the face, POW!!!
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012
Fight!
posted by homunculus at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by homunculus at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012
This is actually an argument.
posted by koeselitz at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by koeselitz at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
FISTICUFFS BUDGET FISTICUFFS
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney's pitch is rising. Hee.
posted by Pallas Athena at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Pallas Athena at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012
Fight!
posted by TurkishGolds at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by TurkishGolds at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012
OOOH fight!
posted by sallybrown at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by sallybrown at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012
Holy fuck. Dick swinging.
posted by Miko at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Miko at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Are they going to fistfight!!??
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Why is the moderator not shutting him up?
posted by Flunkie at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Flunkie at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney is such a dick.
posted by octothorpe at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Mano a mano time
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 6:18 PM on October 16, 2012
Please, Obama, please talk about environment, not just how much oil you'll drill.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Oh now it's getting interesting. They're arguing and their naked dislike is quite palpable.
Obama makes the point about the unused permits!
posted by winna at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Obama makes the point about the unused permits!
posted by winna at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
CAPS FEELS GOOD!!!!
posted by iamkimiam at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by iamkimiam at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Candy, please bring up fracking. I want to see everyone squirm.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ooh ... Rockin' Sockem' Robots. Face- to -face!
posted by ericb at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ericb at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
So much for the "No direct questions between candidates."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012
Yayayayay! Obama backs my angry rhetoric up!
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012
That's it - I'm a punch this Mormon fuck into next year. DO NOT GET in the President's face, and DO NOT interrupt him.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Romney yields time to his opponent. DEBATE FAIL.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by tonycpsu at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Who has a ruler!??!!
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012
YES IT IS NO IT ISNT YES IT IS!
posted by TurkishGolds at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by TurkishGolds at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that Fox won't have much issue with Romney interrupting the President repeatedly.
posted by Phire at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Phire at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Ha! This is fantastic. Wow. An actual point where they disagree and will not back down.
posted by koeselitz at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by koeselitz at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
What did he say about birds? I was in the backyard, dealing with ACTUAL birds. (Month-old chicks were on a field trip outside.)
posted by mudpuppie at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mudpuppie at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
It's like Romney didn't expect Obama to say mean things about him. His face looks like it never even heard of slaps before.
posted by Kattullus at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
posted by Kattullus at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
Candy, where the f&*ck are you? MODERATE.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 6:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Yes, peons, coal jobs! Coal doesn't...kill...no, I never....JOBS, PEONS, JOBS
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012
YES THIS IS GOOOOOOD!
posted by longtime_lurker at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by longtime_lurker at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012
fact checking regarding oil and gas leases
posted by craven_morhead at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by craven_morhead at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Whoa, RUDE! ("That wasn't a question, that was a statement.")
posted by limeonaire at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by limeonaire at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012
What a RUDE FUCKING ASSHOLE Mitt Romney is.
posted by headnsouth at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by headnsouth at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
I think I saw Romney's coif spring loose.
posted by lineofsight at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by lineofsight at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney, I have to go to bed soon. Please do something silly for me to joke about tomorrow.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm still speaking.
posted by TurkishGolds at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by TurkishGolds at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012
I thought no direct questions were allowed? THUNDERDOME!
posted by ersatz at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by ersatz at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012
Are we witnessing a Mitt Romney extinction burst?
posted by Room 641-A at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Room 641-A at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012
This format is below the station of President. I'm ashamed for all of us.
posted by HuronBob at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by HuronBob at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
This is going to be interesting.
posted by insectosaurus at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by insectosaurus at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012
Wow. What an entitled DICK.
posted by mynameisluka at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mynameisluka at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romneys disrespect is breathtaking.
posted by hollygoheavy at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by hollygoheavy at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
Romney: "I'm still speaking." But, what are you saying? Lies, lies, lies.
posted by ericb at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by ericb at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
man alive, this format is making me so squirmy. they're totally in punching distance.
posted by changeling at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by changeling at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Why have I never heard any candidate, Republican or Democrat, mention the role of speculators in raising gas prices?
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
Romney is rude as fuck. Or as the press will say tomorrow, assertive.
posted by triggerfinger at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by triggerfinger at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
OMG Mitt Romney is a national embarrassment.
posted by dejah420 at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by dejah420 at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Arg. YouTube has cut out during real face-to-face.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney, you fucking idiot. The price of gas was so low when Obama took office because the economy (and thus demand) was in the toilet. It is high now because demand has returned.
posted by wierdo at 6:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [14 favorites]
posted by wierdo at 6:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [14 favorites]
The fighting makes me uncomfortable :(
posted by Windigo at 6:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Windigo at 6:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"You'll get your chance?? YOU"LL GET YOUR CHANCE TO SPEAK?????"
That's it - this man is a complete and utter fucking douchebag.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
That's it - this man is a complete and utter fucking douchebag.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Gas prices were low because the economy had imploded like that house at the end of Poltergeist.
posted by Rhaomi at 6:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Rhaomi at 6:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
"One last thing: While you may be mistaking this for your monthly meeting of the Ignorant Tight-Ass Club, in this building, when the President stands, nobody sits."
posted by craven_morhead at 6:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
posted by craven_morhead at 6:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
Oh God thank you Obama. Pls explain supply and demand to this "businessman".
posted by wierdo at 6:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by wierdo at 6:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
OH SNAP. Where the hell was this Obama last debate?
posted by amuseDetachment at 6:21 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by amuseDetachment at 6:21 PM on October 16, 2012
Oh my goodness ... Romney is impossibly incontinent. There goes a negotiative World.
posted by de at 6:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by de at 6:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ice burn on the shitty economy == lower gas prices. Well played.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by tonycpsu at 6:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney, you fucking idiot. The price of gas was so low when Obama took office because the economy (and thus demand) was in the toilet. It is high now because demand has returned.
You and Obama both, my friend.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:21 PM on October 16, 2012
You and Obama both, my friend.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:21 PM on October 16, 2012
I don't think this is awesome or a real argument. It's ROmney tossing baseless allegations.
It's almost like the strategy here is Romney goes on the attack, and Obama, who was counselled to be "respectful" after Biden, is trapped in either backing down to appear "reasonable," or counterattack and risk appearing Angry Black Man.
posted by Miko at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
It's almost like the strategy here is Romney goes on the attack, and Obama, who was counselled to be "respectful" after Biden, is trapped in either backing down to appear "reasonable," or counterattack and risk appearing Angry Black Man.
posted by Miko at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Oh nice response by the crowd to Obama
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Who would win in a Romney/Obama Fistfight? esquire.com
posted by lampshade at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by lampshade at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012
weirdo: PSYCHIC!
posted by leotrotsky at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by leotrotsky at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012
Mitt thinks he controls the cost of energy.
Hi Mitt!
Love,
The rest of the world
posted by ersatz at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Hi Mitt!
Love,
The rest of the world
posted by ersatz at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Is this the debate thread? Because Romney keeps opening his mouth and it is upsetting me.
posted by maryr at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by maryr at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
"It's conceivable that Gov Romney could bring down gas prices, because with his policies, we could have another recession." The crowd AUDIBLY gasped: "oooh..."
posted by koeselitz at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [31 favorites]
posted by koeselitz at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [31 favorites]
Sure, you can have cheap gas if you destroy the economy!
posted by delmoi at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by delmoi at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney's disrespect is breathtaking.
Seriously, people I've hated for decades I've not been that rude to. It's honestly shocking.
posted by winna at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Seriously, people I've hated for decades I've not been that rude to. It's honestly shocking.
posted by winna at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
He just busted Romney for saying that wind workers were invisible, nobody-people.
Super.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Super.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
ROMNEY, CANDY IS TALKING!
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012
Shit, I want Obama to be able to back up "That's not true" with "Don't take my word for it. Look it up at xxxxxx." That would take it out of "No, YOU'RE not being truthful!" pingponging.
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
MAKE HIM ANGRY OBAMA.
posted by triggerfinger at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by triggerfinger at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012
THIS MODERATOR SUCKS.
posted by Miko at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Miko at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
That was a good burn there.
posted by saul wright at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by saul wright at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012
Oh yes. Obama gets a laugh. He's killing.
posted by longtime_lurker at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by longtime_lurker at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney is impossibly incontinent.
Depends.
posted by mudpuppie at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [23 favorites]
Depends.
posted by mudpuppie at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [23 favorites]
Candy: "In the followup, it doesn't work like that".
ZOMG
posted by King Bee at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
ZOMG
posted by King Bee at 6:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
I'd like to buy a response Candy-- Imma let you finish, Candy
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012
CANDY DO NOT LET HIM RAILROAD YOU
posted by triggerfinger at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by triggerfinger at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
OMG, Romney just got shot down on a point of order! And he goes on...
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney knows he done goofed.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
DO NOT LET THIS MAN INTERRUPT AGAIN, CANDY. THIS SANCTIMONIOUS ASS NEEDS TO GET HIS ASS SLAPPED.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Romney is really, really talking over Ms. Crowley.
posted by koeselitz at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by koeselitz at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012
FUCK ROMNEY!! FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK ROMNEY!!!
SIT THE FUCK DOWN ASSHOLE!!
posted by Skygazer at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
SIT THE FUCK DOWN ASSHOLE!!
posted by Skygazer at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Pipelines are so important, we arrest people on their own property for protesting against them.
posted by homunculus at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by homunculus at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012
"Candy, Candy, Candy." Could Romney be any more condescending?
posted by Phire at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Phire at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
LET ME TELL YOU HOW THE RULES OF THE DEBATE WORK, MODERATOR
posted by Flunkie at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Flunkie at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012
"I'm used to being interrupted." YES.
posted by Phire at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Phire at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
The next time Romney interrupts him, Obama's gonna show him the four years of Krav Maga training he's been taking from some CIA instructor in the basement of the White House. Shut the fuck up, Romney cow.
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Holy fucking shit, this guy.
posted by TurkishGolds at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by TurkishGolds at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012
This one is meaner. Someone gonna get popped in the mouth.
posted by dirtdirt at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by dirtdirt at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Where is the power button for that mic?
posted by mynameisluka at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by mynameisluka at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney's trying to tell Crowley how the debate works. Take it to MittaTalk.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [37 favorites]
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [37 favorites]
I don't like Obama much, but I love that he keeps feeding Romney lemons. Pucker up, you lying liar.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012
I'm close to turning this mess off.
posted by HuronBob at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by HuronBob at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Romney is really reaching here....really grasping to get his stump speech in at any chance.
Kinda pathetic actually.
posted by lampshade at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Kinda pathetic actually.
posted by lampshade at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"Actually, in the follow-up it doesn't quite work like that."
posted by Room 641-A at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Room 641-A at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012
Candy -- yeah ... tell Romney. Shut up you smug asshole.
posted by ericb at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ericb at 6:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
So, it appears the empty chair tonight belongs to the moderator.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:24 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by leotrotsky at 6:24 PM on October 16, 2012
Taxes! Romney's specialty!
posted by triggerfinger at 6:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by triggerfinger at 6:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Thank you, President Obama. Green energy creates jobs. THAT is where you need to be going here.
posted by maryr at 6:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by maryr at 6:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Barry O. Dropping bomb after bomb after motherfucking bomb.
posted by howfar at 6:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by howfar at 6:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Wow, Mittens is doubling-down on the dickish interrupting and bull-dozing through the moderator from the first debate.
posted by gladly at 6:24 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by gladly at 6:24 PM on October 16, 2012
Arguing with the moderator about the debate rules is always a good idea.
posted by ceribus peribus at 6:24 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by ceribus peribus at 6:24 PM on October 16, 2012
Oh my God, I love her accent so much, and great question.
posted by limeonaire at 6:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by limeonaire at 6:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Resolved: Women should moderate all Presidential debates. No old guys.
posted by humanfont at 6:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [22 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 6:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [22 favorites]
You're right middle class lady... but only about PART OF THAT.
posted by zennie at 6:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by zennie at 6:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Obama you better get him on this deduction question!
posted by cashman at 6:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by cashman at 6:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
This is making me sooooooooooo uncomfortable.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Jebuz. Romney just lost the election. Right then.
Well, this is like the 10th time so...
posted by delmoi at 6:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Well, this is like the 10th time so...
posted by delmoi at 6:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
MITT ROMNEY WOULD NOT LAST ONE MINUTE WITH ME IN THE ROOM.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Romney, is that number a specific, or are you just bullshitting us for fun?
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:25 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:25 PM on October 16, 2012
Hey moderator, threaten to cut Romney's response time for the next question if he keeps cutting in.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:25 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:25 PM on October 16, 2012
I think Romney didn't prep properly for talking over a female moderator. Not good optics.
posted by gerryblog at 6:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by gerryblog at 6:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
This one is meaner. Someone gonna get popped in the mouth.
I thought that said pooped in the mouth, which is more appropriate for Romney. He is a mouth pooper.
posted by Flamingo at 6:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
I thought that said pooped in the mouth, which is more appropriate for Romney. He is a mouth pooper.
posted by Flamingo at 6:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Romney, why should the proportion of income taxes paid by the top 1% not increase as their share of total income increases?
posted by wierdo at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by wierdo at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Lipstick Thespian for moderator 2016
posted by King Bee at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by King Bee at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
"I'll pick a number." HA.
posted by carsonb at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by carsonb at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
No tax on cap gains? Did I hear that right?!
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Deduction caps would be devastating to the middle class far more than the top tier tax payers. Ridiculous.
posted by Phire at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Phire at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
You're right middle class lady... but only about PART OF THAT.
The part between the words you said, that was correct. But when you used your woman hole to speak, that's where you went wrong.
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
The part between the words you said, that was correct. But when you used your woman hole to speak, that's where you went wrong.
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
What about rich people, though? Do they get to get all those interest deposits tax free? Like you?
ps: 200k a year? IS NOT MIDDLE CLASS.
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012
ps: 200k a year? IS NOT MIDDLE CLASS.
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012
"Pick a number" - What the hell, the election is in like 3 weeks? "pick a number" are you serious?"
posted by cashman at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by cashman at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
Wait, what? The middle class is going to get their tax break through capital gains?
posted by maryr at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by maryr at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
There's your 1% dog-whistle... "60% of the tax the nation collects." instead of "11% effective rate."
The Luntz is strong in this one.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
The Luntz is strong in this one.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
Romney does magic!
posted by Miko at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Miko at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
boooooring.
Oh yeah all the taxes that middle class people are paying on capital gains and dividends.
(And seriously, most middle class people, if they do have investments probably 401ks or IRAs that are tax free)
posted by delmoi at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Oh yeah all the taxes that middle class people are paying on capital gains and dividends.
(And seriously, most middle class people, if they do have investments probably 401ks or IRAs that are tax free)
posted by delmoi at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Romney, how about YOU pick a number? I'm sure you can pull one out of your ass.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012
No capital gains tax! WHAT!?
posted by figurant at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by figurant at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
No capital gains taxes for poor people. Cool.
DICK.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
DICK.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
Romney doesn't realize that most middle class people have net negative savings, and most of the savings they have are in 401ks.
posted by wierdo at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by wierdo at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
"I'll pick a number". Ha, great planning.
posted by ersatz at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ersatz at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Hmm, so nobody pays more taxes, and he fixes the deficient?
Romney, fess up.
You perfected alchemy, didn't you?
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Romney, fess up.
You perfected alchemy, didn't you?
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
"I will not reduce the share that's being paid by the highest tax payers." Sorry, Adelson.
posted by Phire at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Phire at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012
I feel like Romney's trying to sell me on a pyramid scheme.
posted by saul wright at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by saul wright at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Woohoo! No taxes on my dividends and capital gains!! Wait, what are those?
posted by Ad hominem at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by Ad hominem at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Have they been buried, Governor? Buried? That one must have tested well.
posted by dirtdirt at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by dirtdirt at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012
The fuck? Nobody making under $200,000 a year is making jack shit in interest or dividends anyway.
This debate is going to take years off of my life.
posted by mynameisluka at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
This debate is going to take years off of my life.
posted by mynameisluka at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
Mitt "Pick a Number" Romney
posted by smithsmith at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by smithsmith at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Obama is about to pounce.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012
I ADORE that someone asked specifically about the deductions.
Romney is babbling about his mathemagic. He's now talking about limiting deductions and only having a bucket. And eliminating capital gains tax!
PLEASE let Obama take up the point that eliminating capital gains massively benefits the wealthiest Americans.
posted by winna at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Romney is babbling about his mathemagic. He's now talking about limiting deductions and only having a bucket. And eliminating capital gains tax!
PLEASE let Obama take up the point that eliminating capital gains massively benefits the wealthiest Americans.
posted by winna at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
A friend suggested that the moderator should have the power to deliver a series of mild electric shocks when presenters go overtime.
posted by Miko at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by Miko at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
You know, no taxes on interest, dividends, and capital gains would be nice—and I say that as someone who does invest some small amount of my middle-class income—but Romney hasn't talked about any of the specific tax deductions she asked about. Let's see if Obama does better.
posted by limeonaire at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by limeonaire at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Well, Obama at least obliquely mentioned the poor, "folks striving to get into the middle class." That's...something.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
No tax on cap gains? Did I hear that right?!Oh, yeah, yeah you did.
posted by wintermind at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
LOL I'm going to lose my mortgage interest deduction and I won't be able to pay for my kid to go to college but hey, I won't get taxed on all those capital gains I earn.
posted by headnsouth at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [14 favorites]
posted by headnsouth at 6:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [14 favorites]
Resolved: Women should moderate all Presidential debates. No old guys.The last moderator was great. This one kind of sucks, so far at least, in kind of the same way that the old guy did.
posted by Flunkie at 6:28 PM on October 16, 2012
Frantically refreshing this thread as the only medium you have for following the debate is SO GODDAMN WEIRD. Birds and shouting and candy? What? Huh?
posted by Shepherd at 6:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [16 favorites]
posted by Shepherd at 6:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [16 favorites]
Oh great I can skip paying taxes on the 1% interest I'm collecting on my CD's and other fixed income. Big whoop.
posted by humanfont at 6:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by humanfont at 6:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Dammit, Obama, when are you going to make with the pouncing and devouring?
posted by wintermind at 6:28 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by wintermind at 6:28 PM on October 16, 2012
Oh come on Mr. President. Romney's tax plan is AIR! Eviscerate him! I like hearing your plan, but people need to know Romney's is air.
posted by cashman at 6:29 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by cashman at 6:29 PM on October 16, 2012
Governor Romney's allies in Congress
ZING
posted by Panjandrum at 6:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
ZING
posted by Panjandrum at 6:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Flunkie: “The last moderator was great. This one kind of sucks, so far at least, in kind of the same way that the old guy did.”
Dude, no. Think about this for a moment: she is not allowed to ask follow-up questions, according to the rules. So far, she's been exceedingly brave.
posted by koeselitz at 6:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [14 favorites]
Dude, no. Think about this for a moment: she is not allowed to ask follow-up questions, according to the rules. So far, she's been exceedingly brave.
posted by koeselitz at 6:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [14 favorites]
Obama's response meter looks strong. I was so nervous during the Romney-tude I forgot to look at his.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:29 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:29 PM on October 16, 2012
Obama hits the anecdote about Romney thinking his tax rate is fair! Ha!
posted by winna at 6:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by winna at 6:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney not revealing a tax plan reminds me about how republicans said nobody knows what's in Obamacare, after the bill was published for everyone to read.
There is no document for the Romney plan. But we should trust the guy who changes his stance on everything all the time.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:29 PM on October 16, 2012
There is no document for the Romney plan. But we should trust the guy who changes his stance on everything all the time.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:29 PM on October 16, 2012
"Is it fair that someone likes you pays a lower tax rate than a nurse or a bus driver? And he said that's fair, and that's what grows the economy. And I fundamentally disagree with that." Great line.
posted by Phire at 6:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Phire at 6:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"I fundamentally disagree with that."
It's meat, but not much. Keep it comin' pal.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
It's meat, but not much. Keep it comin' pal.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm not up to pace with this debate thread but Kathleen Madigan tweets: "This is beyond awkward. I hope someone pulls a fire alarm. And I hope it's jeremy so he has a job."
posted by stoneandstar at 6:30 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by stoneandstar at 6:30 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
"You heard what I said about my tax plan"
Which time?
posted by inigo2 at 6:30 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Which time?
posted by inigo2 at 6:30 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm loving these camera angles. Someone is always lurking in the background.
posted by Revort at 6:30 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Revort at 6:30 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Is it just me or is Romney not staying on his side of the contractually obligated line on stage?
posted by ob1quixote at 6:30 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by ob1quixote at 6:30 PM on October 16, 2012
Ouch, Romney just made it sound like rich people pay 60% of their income in tax.
posted by wierdo at 6:30 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by wierdo at 6:30 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Someone as ungodly wealthy as Romney doesn't know what it's like to make less than 50K a year. I hate how he talks like he understands.
posted by King Bee at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by King Bee at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
I wonder if Romney will address the inconsistency between his current position and his position at the RNC? LOL JOKES.
posted by Phire at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Phire at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
How surprising that Romney wants no tax on dividends, capital gains, and interest. Here are the numbers from his 2011 return:
Capital Gains: $6,810,176
Dividends: $3,649,567
Interest: $3,012,775
Wages, salaries, tips, etc.: ZERO
posted by Flunkie at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
Capital Gains: $6,810,176
Dividends: $3,649,567
Interest: $3,012,775
Wages, salaries, tips, etc.: ZERO
posted by Flunkie at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
The issue is that the wealthy have to pay more. The top 5% pay 60% of taxes but take in 95% of the cash from the economy each year.
posted by humanfont at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
"Where is Martha" is trending on twitter. Ha.
posted by insectosaurus at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by insectosaurus at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"Why do I want to bring rates down, and at the same time lower rates and deductions at the high end?" Because I'm lying and I can tell you any magical thing I want!!
posted by limeonaire at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by limeonaire at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Anyone watching the "Undecided-ometer" on CNN? Pretty entertaining. The undecideds are not big fans of Mitt Romney's tax ideas.
posted by delmoi at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by delmoi at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Frantically refreshing this thread as the only medium you have for following the debate is SO GODDAMN WEIRD. Birds and shouting and candy? What? Huh?
Romney brought an unlicensed Big Bird pinata to destroy. The crowd is screaming for him to stop, but he said that he will only stop the beatings if they promise to vote for him.
Fox News will describe it as refusing to negotiate with terrorists, except they'll be confused on which group are terrorists.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [15 favorites]
Romney brought an unlicensed Big Bird pinata to destroy. The crowd is screaming for him to stop, but he said that he will only stop the beatings if they promise to vote for him.
Fox News will describe it as refusing to negotiate with terrorists, except they'll be confused on which group are terrorists.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [15 favorites]
"'Small businesses' keep more of their capital."
I wonder how small we're talking about here?
posted by carsonb at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I wonder how small we're talking about here?
posted by carsonb at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney's such a bad actor with the fake puzzlement, fake "I feel your pain." It bums me out that people can't seem to read that. He puts it on like a mask.
posted by Miko at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by Miko at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
Like he gives a shit about women..
posted by HuronBob at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by HuronBob at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Seriously - come on, Barack! Here's your mop, wipe the floor with Romney brand wax!
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"So when you bring rates down, those businesses are able to keep more money and hire more people"
posted by cashman at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by cashman at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
OH! Now it's energy independence for North America in FIVE years! It was 8 earlier.
posted by maryr at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by maryr at 6:31 PM on October 16, 2012
Dude, no. Think about this for a moment: she is not allowed to ask follow-up questions, according to the rules. So far, she's been exceedingly brave.Exceedingly brave? She's letting Mitt talk whenever he wants. The problem is not follow up questions.
posted by Flunkie at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012
I think Obama hit the tax question out of the park.
posted by Pallas Athena at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Pallas Athena at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
"Cracking down on China when they cheat fill my coffers"
posted by obscurator at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by obscurator at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012
Obama, please continue to hang Romney with his previous 'Etch-A-Sketch' quotes.
posted by ericb at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by ericb at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012
These are not a plan! They are friendly sentiments!
posted by almostmanda at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by almostmanda at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Here's what I propose we do next debate.
We get a bunch of guys in black zentai suits to sneak up on the guy who debates/abuses time/chronically disobeys the moderator, and have them put their hands over the debator's mouth.
That'd creep me out enough I wouldn't want them anywhere near me.
Sorry Zentai enthusiasts.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
We get a bunch of guys in black zentai suits to sneak up on the guy who debates/abuses time/chronically disobeys the moderator, and have them put their hands over the debator's mouth.
That'd creep me out enough I wouldn't want them anywhere near me.
Sorry Zentai enthusiasts.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Romney seems to think that free trade agreements increase employment here. That's not actually true.
posted by wierdo at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by wierdo at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012
Yeah, Mitt, lets talk about women.
posted by dirtdirt at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by dirtdirt at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I just want to let you know that me reading this thread aloud has made my utterly apolitical husband turn on the debates so he can see the carnage for himself.
posted by anastasiav at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by anastasiav at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Romney is not sitting back down? Weird.
posted by shortfuse at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by shortfuse at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
MATHMATHMATHMATH
posted by cashman at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by cashman at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
If the drinking game includes "Get this Economy going again" and "5 point plan" we're going to bankrupt the medical sector with alcohol poisoning cases. Watch out.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012
Oh shit Ann Romney and sons look so fucking scary and grim...
posted by Skygazer at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Skygazer at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012
I wanna know where the hell Romney bought gas on Long Island for $1.86 four years ago. I lived here then and remember gas being around $2.40-$2.50 when Bush left office.
posted by zarq at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by zarq at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
I know about unemployment. Some of my business friends have created unemployment.
posted by ersatz at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
posted by ersatz at 6:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
No it's NOT settled, dammit!
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Tigers up 1-0, carry on.
posted by JoeXIII007 at 6:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by JoeXIII007 at 6:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Romney looks like a sad monkey.
GOOD.
posted by Skygazer at 6:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
GOOD.
posted by Skygazer at 6:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I wonder how small we're talking about here?
The entire definition of "small business" that you hear these guys talking about is something that bugs me a lot. My brother has a small business. He and his wife have one employee and hardly draw a salary. There's a big difference between that and a 50+person group with multimillion dollar budgets. It sounds nice, but it's time to be a little more honest about these distinctions.
posted by Miko at 6:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
The entire definition of "small business" that you hear these guys talking about is something that bugs me a lot. My brother has a small business. He and his wife have one employee and hardly draw a salary. There's a big difference between that and a 50+person group with multimillion dollar budgets. It sounds nice, but it's time to be a little more honest about these distinctions.
posted by Miko at 6:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Obama's doing math again. Let's see if it works better this time.
posted by delmoi at 6:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by delmoi at 6:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Come on, Obama, just use the word "lie". Just once. I'm begging you.
(Then use it over and over as appropriate.)
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
(Then use it over and over as appropriate.)
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
"Which loopholes is he gonna close? He can't tell you." About time, Obama.
posted by Phire at 6:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Phire at 6:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm seriously still not even sure that I heard that correctly, it's just so astounding: Did he really say that he wants no taxes on capital gains and such?
posted by Flunkie at 6:33 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Flunkie at 6:33 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney is not sitting back down? Weird.
Lurch-ish with borderline "I'ma punch this sucka". Totally agree.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:33 PM on October 16, 2012
Lurch-ish with borderline "I'ma punch this sucka". Totally agree.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:33 PM on October 16, 2012
Big bird!
posted by larthegreat at 6:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by larthegreat at 6:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Hahaha, Obama nailed him on the capital gains magical thinking thing.
posted by limeonaire at 6:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by limeonaire at 6:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
BIG BIRD!
posted by octothorpe at 6:33 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by octothorpe at 6:33 PM on October 16, 2012
Enough with Big Bird already. Let it go.
posted by homunculus at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I don't get how republicans say they love free trade but want to do something to impair our trade with China.
That's not how laizes faire economics work.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
That's not how laizes faire economics work.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Response meter isn't liking Obama's answer. :(
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012
Women don't like it when Obama talks about Big Bird.
posted by triggerfinger at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by triggerfinger at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012
Sketchy deal!
posted by meowf at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by meowf at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Boom! Big Bird!
posted by howfar at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by howfar at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Neither should you. "The math doesn't add up." Right. Keep on that.
posted by Miko at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Miko at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Just keep blinking, Mr. Romney.
It's like he keeps trying to Refresh but it's not working.
posted by zennie at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
It's like he keeps trying to Refresh but it's not working.
posted by zennie at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Sketchy deal. BOOM.
posted by benito.strauss at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by benito.strauss at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I just love this "energy independence for North America" in less than 10 years from Romney. It's up their with Paul's solution to our conflict with Iran, "We just need to change the ayatollahs minds."
posted by maryr at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by maryr at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney's lost his poise totally. He's just imagining arrows in Obama's face...HA HA HAAA....
posted by Skygazer at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Skygazer at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney seems to have that "oh crap, but I'll keep smiling" look on his face.
posted by lampshade at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by lampshade at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Burn.
posted by Falconetti at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Falconetti at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012
"SKETCHY"! Go Etch-a-sketch! Don't tease me like that!
posted by gladly at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by gladly at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012
"You wouldn't take such a sketchy deal! and (turns to America) neither should you!"
Got Him.
posted by cashman at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
Got Him.
posted by cashman at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
Flunkie: “Exceedingly brave? She's letting Mitt talk whenever he wants. The problem is not follow up questions.”
We can agree to disagree on this, I guess. She spent twenty seconds trying to talk over him before he walked toward her and she backed down. Jim Lehrer did nothing of the kind, and in fact apologized whenever it happened.
posted by koeselitz at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
We can agree to disagree on this, I guess. She spent twenty seconds trying to talk over him before he walked toward her and she backed down. Jim Lehrer did nothing of the kind, and in fact apologized whenever it happened.
posted by koeselitz at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
I like "sketchy". This man talks my language.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney is doing that "looking adoringly" thing again!
posted by lineofsight at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by lineofsight at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I am dead serious: Angry Romney scares the ever-living SHIT out of me.
posted by mynameisluka at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by mynameisluka at 6:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
That's not how laizes faire economics work.
That's because it's lazy fair economics.
posted by charred husk at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
That's because it's lazy fair economics.
posted by charred husk at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Hold your ground, Candy, hold your ground!
posted by pemberkins at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by pemberkins at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Romney's starting to get that tight angry look on his face. hahaha
posted by triggerfinger at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by triggerfinger at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012
OMG, and Obama came back to the loss of deductions thing at the end. Very good stuff.
posted by limeonaire at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by limeonaire at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012
SHE ACTUALLY DIDN"T LET HIM SPEAK!!! WOOOOOOOOOO.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012
"Closing deductions for wealthy individuals."
This now refers to corporations.
posted by obscurator at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
This now refers to corporations.
posted by obscurator at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
HE KEEPS FUCKING INTERRUPTING HER. RUDE
posted by triggerfinger at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by triggerfinger at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"Of course they add up" In other words: "Trust me".
posted by wierdo at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by wierdo at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"I ran the Olympics...and balanced the budget."
with a serious federal bailout, iirc.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
with a serious federal bailout, iirc.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Ohhhh so sleazy, Romney. Sounds waaaayyy too slick: "Of courrrrrse they add up." Uh-huh.
posted by limeonaire at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by limeonaire at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012
"I'm someone who ran businesses INTO THE GROUND."
posted by HuronBob at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by HuronBob at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
FOREIGN!!!
posted by tonycpsu at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by tonycpsu at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Energy independence in five years? His own plan is eight years, and—surprise, surprise—it's total bullshit.
posted by ob1quixote at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ob1quixote at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Oh, my. Look at Romney's facial expression. The smug sneer. He despises Obama.
posted by ericb at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by ericb at 6:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Romney, how can I add up a bunch of unknown variables and get a constant answer?
See me after class.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
See me after class.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
I am dead serious: Angry Romney scares the ever-living SHIT out of me.
I keep waiting for him to deploy the lasers.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012
I keep waiting for him to deploy the lasers.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012
"If somehow the math doesn't add up, would you reconsider?" "Of course the math adds up." Wooooooooow.
posted by Phire at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Phire at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
FOREIGN (dogwhistle)
posted by goHermGO at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by goHermGO at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
"If somehow the numbers don't add up..."
Romney sneers, "Of course they add up."
Ooo I'm convinced.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney sneers, "Of course they add up."
Ooo I'm convinced.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
DAT SMILE. Obama in the background while Romney is saying... stuff. I just died.
posted by Zephyrial at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Zephyrial at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
And Romney, when confronted with the inconsistency in his tax plan says "that's not my plan."
posted by wierdo at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by wierdo at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012
I ran the Olympics with 1.5 billion in government funds and balanced the budget.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Ooooh....GREECE. So scary!!! I should go as Greece for Halloween, because at least the Republicans seem to find it terrifying.
posted by Miko at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by Miko at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Here comes the stump speech points again and with a Greece reference as the cherry on top
posted by lampshade at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by lampshade at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney, let the bloody moderator speak.
posted by ersatz at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ersatz at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Also I am loving Crowley's refusal to let Romney walk over her.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012
Of course they add up. Here's an anecdote about me.
posted by Malice at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Malice at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Could he sound more condescending when he talks about his experience as a CEO.
And now he's interrupting again!
posted by winna at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012
And now he's interrupting again!
posted by winna at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012
Was that a swipe Romney made on governing Massachusetts?
posted by ericb at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ericb at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
haha I loved Obama's face right before he stood up to interrupt
posted by stoneandstar at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by stoneandstar at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012
I am dead serious: Angry Romney scares the ever-living SHIT out of me.
Wait untill he becomes President and gets angry at Iran.
posted by homunculus at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Wait untill he becomes President and gets angry at Iran.
posted by homunculus at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Wow, this is so fucked up. She's absolutely doing the best job she can.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Cut. His. Mic.
posted by obscurator at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by obscurator at 6:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
God, the talking over Candy is sooooooooo disrespectful and rude and frankly classic Alpha Dog misogyny.
posted by Miko at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [20 favorites]
posted by Miko at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [20 favorites]
"Of course the math would add up." Someone should organize an effort to send thousands of abacuses to Romney's campaign HQ.
posted by audi alteram partem at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by audi alteram partem at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney, just straight out insult the moderator.
It'll rally the base and confirm to the right you lost because the debate was "unfair."
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012
It'll rally the base and confirm to the right you lost because the debate was "unfair."
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012
Fuck yeah! Women make 72 percent of what men earn—answer that!
posted by limeonaire at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by limeonaire at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Romney should not mention the Olympics, when the federal government had to bail him out.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney is completely incapable of shutting his mouth when it's time to move on.
posted by hollygoheavy at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by hollygoheavy at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
This could be a funnnnnn question. Equality in the workplace for women?
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012
Ha! Women's issues! There's no wiggle room for Romney now.
posted by wabbittwax at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by wabbittwax at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Arg, can't handle it when all three talk at once.
Also, Ms. Fenton should ask all of the questions.
posted by craven_morhead at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012
Also, Ms. Fenton should ask all of the questions.
posted by craven_morhead at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012
Great. Obama is back!!!
I'm breathing much easier.
YES!!
*HIGH FIVES*
posted by Skygazer at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm breathing much easier.
YES!!
*HIGH FIVES*
posted by Skygazer at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"I was raised by a single mom..." Here's the human edge – Obama's hitting all the bases here.
posted by koeselitz at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by koeselitz at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012
How is Romney going to counter Obama's anecdotes about women in his life???
posted by mudpuppie at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by mudpuppie at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
I'm in a sports bar right now, even though I'm not a huge sports fan, especially regarding any of the games under contention tonight.
But I can see 20+ TVs from where I sit, and not one of them is showing the debate. It is glorious. I wish I had figured this out long ago.
OTOH, I'm still following this thread, so I have yet to completely master the ignore debates for races that one is already decided on kata.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
But I can see 20+ TVs from where I sit, and not one of them is showing the debate. It is glorious. I wish I had figured this out long ago.
OTOH, I'm still following this thread, so I have yet to completely master the ignore debates for races that one is already decided on kata.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney really shouldn't talk over the moderator. Doing it to Obama is one thing, but he looks really douchey doing that.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:37 PM on October 16, 2012
women in the workplace!!! Lilly Ledbetter!
posted by triggerfinger at 6:38 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by triggerfinger at 6:38 PM on October 16, 2012
Wait untill he becomes President and gets angry at Iran.
I was going to favorite that, but that's not the right word to describe my feelings. Sort of the opposite of favorite. "Dreaded horror", yes that's it. Of to MeTa to request my pony.
posted by King Bee at 6:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
I was going to favorite that, but that's not the right word to describe my feelings. Sort of the opposite of favorite. "Dreaded horror", yes that's it. Of to MeTa to request my pony.
posted by King Bee at 6:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
So, two minute answers, with two minute follow ups, and they covered two questions in half an hour.
posted by ceribus peribus at 6:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ceribus peribus at 6:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Bringing up the Lilly Ledbetter Act - about time, in this campaign!
posted by Phire at 6:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Phire at 6:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Candy needs a gong.
posted by jph at 6:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by jph at 6:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
Oh boy how is Romney gonna go at this one? FREE MARKET!
posted by zardoz at 6:38 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by zardoz at 6:38 PM on October 16, 2012
yayyyy this is a family issue yaaayyy
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:38 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:38 PM on October 16, 2012
Haha, there was an article recently that talks about Bain Capital's major deals.
Turns out, most of them was buying a bunch of business, merging them, taking on a huge debt, and then taking a huge fee and pawning it off to wallstreet setup to fail.
So actually Mitt's plan for the economy - totally void of real numbers - is actually similar to the business plans he foisted on to chumps on wallstreet.
posted by delmoi at 6:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Turns out, most of them was buying a bunch of business, merging them, taking on a huge debt, and then taking a huge fee and pawning it off to wallstreet setup to fail.
So actually Mitt's plan for the economy - totally void of real numbers - is actually similar to the business plans he foisted on to chumps on wallstreet.
posted by delmoi at 6:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
LILY LEDBETTOR ACT! WOO HOO!!
SUCK ON THAT MONSIEUR LE ROMNEY!!
posted by Skygazer at 6:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
SUCK ON THAT MONSIEUR LE ROMNEY!!
posted by Skygazer at 6:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Knock knock!
Who's there?
Interrupting cow.
Interrupting cow w-
Well of course my budget numbers add up!
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [38 favorites]
Who's there?
Interrupting cow.
Interrupting cow w-
Well of course my budget numbers add up!
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [38 favorites]
Family issue. Middle class issue. That's right: women's issues are everybody's.
posted by Miko at 6:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [14 favorites]
posted by Miko at 6:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [14 favorites]
The first debate was not a loss.
It was an assessment of Romney's weaknesses.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [23 favorites]
It was an assessment of Romney's weaknesses.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [23 favorites]
"This isn't just a women's issue, this is a family issue and a middle-class issue." Precisely.
posted by Phire at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Phire at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
"This is not just a women's issue, this is a family issue, this is a middle class issue." Hell yes, go tell it Obama!
posted by sallybrown at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Cut. His. Mic
I must believe that she doesn't have this power. I can't see her being given that red button. Anyone know for sure one way or the other?
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012
I must believe that she doesn't have this power. I can't see her being given that red button. Anyone know for sure one way or the other?
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012
Sniff. It is a sad state of affairs when pointing out that women's issues are family/middle-class/everyone issues actually brings a tear to my eye.
posted by mynameisluka at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by mynameisluka at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
I'm kind of sad he's talking about student loans. Just hammer, hammer, hammer the Lilly Ledbetter Act.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012
Lilly Ledbetter!
posted by zardoz at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by zardoz at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Obama talking about Pell Grants. He needs to point out that Romney/Ryan want to cut them.
posted by winna at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by winna at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012
Holy, holy shit. I love this answer. Glass ceilings, single moms, smart as a whip. Obama is looking like fucking Fabio right now, or so I would say if I weren't sick of the romancing the lady voter rhetoric. FAMILY ISSUE. MIDDLE CLASS ISSUE. HOLY SHIT.
posted by stoneandstar at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by stoneandstar at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Was that a swipe Romney made on governing Massachusetts?
I recommend anyone who hasn't read this article yet check it out after the debate:
Mass Revolt: Mitt Romney was governor of Massachusetts just six years ago. Today he’s so unpopular here he’s barely bothering to campaign in the state. There are reasons for that—and they could spell doom for his presidential campaign.
posted by homunculus at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I recommend anyone who hasn't read this article yet check it out after the debate:
Mass Revolt: Mitt Romney was governor of Massachusetts just six years ago. Today he’s so unpopular here he’s barely bothering to campaign in the state. There are reasons for that—and they could spell doom for his presidential campaign.
posted by homunculus at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney's being disingenous * about “small businesses” paying taxes on the owner's personal return at the individual rate. That's not how pass through taxes on s corps and llcs work. Look at the romney returns. He has llcs and s corps. He's paying less than 15%. what a lying asshole.
*charity
posted by leonard horner at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012
*charity
posted by leonard horner at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012
Turns out, most of them was buying a bunch of business, merging them, taking on a huge debt, and then taking a huge fee and pawning it off to wallstreet setup to fai
Oh, not even news. That's what the private equity market is. I guess people don't really know much about it, still.
posted by Miko at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012
Oh, not even news. That's what the private equity market is. I guess people don't really know much about it, still.
posted by Miko at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012
"I can't have extra wives, I'm running for office for Pete's sake."
posted by obscurator at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by obscurator at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"We've got to make sure that we do not tolerate discrimination". YES.
posted by cashman at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by cashman at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012
Women undecideds on CNN looooooove Lily Ledbetter
posted by hollygoheavy at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by hollygoheavy at 6:39 PM on October 16, 2012
"Women are increasingly the breadwinners in the family" with Romney sneering in the background. Nice shot.
posted by ersatz at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by ersatz at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
"my" state? Dude, people here don't even recognize you on the street.
posted by Miko at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by Miko at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
I want the question asker to just roll her eyes at Romney right now.
posted by King Bee at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by King Bee at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012
ROMNEY, NO, DON'T MENTION WHEN YOU WERE GOVERNOR, YOU ARE OPENING PANDORA'S BOX AND THE DEMONS INSIDE ARE FACTS AND THIS METAPHOR IS TORTURED.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [15 favorites]
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [15 favorites]
People with the qualifications. Can't we find some women? Took a concerted effort. ASSHOLE.
posted by mudpuppie at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mudpuppie at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yes, Mitt says he has run companies, but he really hasn't. He's bought and sold companies.
posted by benito.strauss at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by benito.strauss at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Romney comes out for affirmative action!
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
A concerted effort to find women! WHole binders full of women!
Wait, I think that was the Russian dating service with the binders.
posted by Miko at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
Wait, I think that was the Russian dating service with the binders.
posted by Miko at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
"important topic" he says dismissively.
posted by howfar at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by howfar at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Wow Romney, that's a great anecdote about "binders full of women".
posted by wierdo at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by wierdo at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
woah I want a binder full of women!
posted by Theta States at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by Theta States at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
"Gosh, can't we find some women?"
posted by Room 641-A at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Room 641-A at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Binders full of women.
posted by obscurator at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by obscurator at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I HIRED SOME WIMMIN ONCE YOU GUYS
posted by mynameisluka at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [18 favorites]
posted by mynameisluka at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [18 favorites]
Romney supports affirmative action for women. *
* Offer valid only for Mitt's cabinet. No fatties.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
* Offer valid only for Mitt's cabinet. No fatties.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
WHOLE BINDERS FULL OF WOMEN
posted by Flashman at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Flashman at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
"Why are these all men?" "These are the ones who have the qualifications." "Well, can't we also find some women?" "So we went to women's groups and they brought us binders of women." That resonates less than he might think.
posted by Phire at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [20 favorites]
posted by Phire at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [20 favorites]
"They brought us binders full of women."
posted by The Hamms Bear at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by The Hamms Bear at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Whole binders full of women!
posted by obvious at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by obvious at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
HA!
Obama: "I learned about women because I was raised by a single mother."
Romney: "I learned about women because I was, uh, Governor of Massachusetts."
Not sure if...
posted by koeselitz at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [21 favorites]
Obama: "I learned about women because I was raised by a single mother."
Romney: "I learned about women because I was, uh, Governor of Massachusetts."
Not sure if...
posted by koeselitz at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [21 favorites]
I doubt she has the literal power to cut his mike, but she certainly has the literal power to say "It is not your turn, sit down and be quiet until it is."
posted by Flunkie at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Flunkie at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012
The topic is inequalities in the workplace, Romney is a former CEO, and he goes to his 'experience as Governor?' *forehead slap*
posted by carsonb at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by carsonb at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
WHOLE BINDERS FULL OF WOMEN!!!
posted by chaff at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by chaff at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"Binders full of women." Hilarious, tragic & outrageous all at once.
posted by audi alteram partem at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by audi alteram partem at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
They brought Romney binders full of women? So...he had bound women?
posted by maryr at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by maryr at 6:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
"Binders full of women"?!?!?
posted by Dr. Fetish at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Dr. Fetish at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Women's issues? Here's an anecdote about me!
posted by Malice at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Malice at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
The first debate was not a loss.
It was an assessment of Romney's weaknesses.
I doubt it, but even if true, people have started voting already.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012
It was an assessment of Romney's weaknesses.
I doubt it, but even if true, people have started voting already.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012
Mitt supports affirmative action for women! Who knew?
posted by headnsouth at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by headnsouth at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012
IF you're going to have women in the workplace
-Mitt
posted by goHermGO at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
-Mitt
posted by goHermGO at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
OH HOLY HELL, he's Fred fucking Flintstone.
posted by mudpuppie at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by mudpuppie at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Fail answer, Romney, making it seem like it takes an EPIC search to find qualified women..."sometime you need to be more flexible," fuck you, because only women want a flexible schedule?
posted by sallybrown at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [17 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [17 favorites]
One of the reasons I could get so many women to be on that team is because I only had to pay them about 70% of what I pay the men I mean we like flexible schedules and women are great and good workers, amirite?
posted by King Bee at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by King Bee at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012
Aaaaaaand Romney's answer is condescending and gross. Don't talk about this shit like a little problem you happened to remember to solve by making some cold calls or wtf.
posted by stoneandstar at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by stoneandstar at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
"Women are increasingly the breadwinners in the family" with Romney sneering in the background. Nice shot.
Well, of course. They're cheaper to hire, and it's a buyer's market, ain't it?
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012
Well, of course. They're cheaper to hire, and it's a buyer's market, ain't it?
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012
"Whole binders full of women!" That sounded kinda creepy.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012
"my economy will be so good, employers will ACTUALLY want to hire women!"
posted by Theta States at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
posted by Theta States at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
The new economy?
Romney, what are you doing to the old economy? Romney, my money and job are in the old economy.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Romney, what are you doing to the old economy? Romney, my money and job are in the old economy.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
"They brought us... whole binders full of women."
And now he's talking about how women need more work flexibility. Because of course we all have children.
Flexible schedules are also a dogwhistle for pay inequity - that's one of the facile justifications for why we have lower pay.
posted by winna at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [16 favorites]
And now he's talking about how women need more work flexibility. Because of course we all have children.
Flexible schedules are also a dogwhistle for pay inequity - that's one of the facile justifications for why we have lower pay.
posted by winna at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [16 favorites]
Some of my best friends are WOMEN!
posted by ericb at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by ericb at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
they'll be so desperate for workers they will even hire women! awesome!
posted by gatorae at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by gatorae at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Candy needs to get her big boots on for this and quick.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012
MsEld: "Wait a tic, did he just mansplain that he was so wonderful in understanding that his female employees had household duties so he let them work flex hours?"
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
"my" state? Dude, people here don't even recognize you on the street.
posted by Miko
Oh yes they do. That's why he can't walk around here.
posted by benito.strauss at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Miko
Oh yes they do. That's why he can't walk around here.
posted by benito.strauss at 6:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
And Romney's solution to pay inequality turns out to be "improve the economy" and magic.
posted by wierdo at 6:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by wierdo at 6:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
"I had more binders than any leadership team in America."
posted by smithsmith at 6:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by smithsmith at 6:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
But, ultimately, I'm not going to do anything for women.
posted by dirtdirt at 6:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by dirtdirt at 6:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yes, it's a mystery why women, who make up the majority of state workers, and who are primarily affected by budget cuts in welfare and childcare subsidies are in poverty. It's a real mystery.
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
This whole "my new economy" sounds like a post-apocalyptic scenario.
ROMNEYBOT RUNS BARTER TOWN.
....
ROMNEYBOT RUNS BARTER TOWN!
posted by Theta States at 6:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
ROMNEYBOT RUNS BARTER TOWN.
....
ROMNEYBOT RUNS BARTER TOWN!
posted by Theta States at 6:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Oh yeah, Romney, you just care oodles about women. We can tell.
posted by clavier at 6:42 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by clavier at 6:42 PM on October 16, 2012
A bit of reproductive justice and control over health care decisions so that they can do family planning and adequately plan their own career trajectories would be nice, too, Governor.
posted by Phire at 6:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Phire at 6:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I KNOW WHAT IT TAKES!
posted by saysthis at 6:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by saysthis at 6:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Some of the longest 2 minutes ever.
posted by shortfuse at 6:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by shortfuse at 6:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
ROMNEY, NO, DON'T MENTION WHEN YOU WERE GOVERNOR, YOU ARE OPENING PANDORA'S BOX AND THE DEMONS INSIDE ARE FACTS AND THIS METAPHOR IS TORTURED.Here's what I'd ask: "What about you companies at Bain? Or did you figure it didn't matter, becuase they were all going to be laid off in a few years anyway?"
posted by delmoi at 6:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Shut up, Mitt. You're way out of your shallow here.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
"Mr. Romney what is your favorite color?"
THIS IS NOT A STRONG ECONOMY!
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
THIS IS NOT A STRONG ECONOMY!
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
Romney wanted to hire women because they are cheaper
posted by Mr. Merkin at 6:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Mr. Merkin at 6:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
The lady in the patterned pants looks SO ANNOYED by Romney's bullshit answer right now. She is the best commentator on the debate so far.
posted by King Bee at 6:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by King Bee at 6:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ooooh, you just pissed my wife off, Mitt. And the crowd doesn't look happy.
"Of course they don't. He's still gender stereotyping."
posted by charred husk at 6:43 PM on October 16, 2012
"Of course they don't. He's still gender stereotyping."
posted by charred husk at 6:43 PM on October 16, 2012
The issue is not that they're not hiring women—because women really are more and more of the workforce—it's that they're not paying us enough. So you're not going to pay us more, Mr. Romney...but you're going to give us a flexible schedule? Also, you're way over time, dude.
posted by limeonaire at 6:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by limeonaire at 6:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Even CNN's undecided men are liking Obama's stance on contraception.
posted by delmoi at 6:44 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by delmoi at 6:44 PM on October 16, 2012
OBAMA DROPS A-BOMB ON HOFSTRASHIMA
posted by tonycpsu at 6:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 6:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
OH MAN OBAMA BRINGS THE WOMEN'S HEALTHCARE ISSUE. HARD. CORE.
posted by clavier at 6:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by clavier at 6:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Yes, Phire, exactly. Telling women they're never going to get jobs they're qualified for unless someone happens to 1) realize 2) care and 3) solicit binders is unsympathetic and lame.
posted by stoneandstar at 6:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by stoneandstar at 6:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
pie in the sky, emerald city, fantasy bullshit....THAT is the GOP platform....
posted by HuronBob at 6:44 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by HuronBob at 6:44 PM on October 16, 2012
Thank you, President Obama, for taking seriously the realities of women's health care and the economics of childcare. Thank you.
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Ohhhh, and Obama's bringing healthcare screenings and preventive care and child care into this. Awesome.
posted by limeonaire at 6:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by limeonaire at 6:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
BLAMMO! PP provides all sorts of health services!!
posted by Skygazer at 6:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Skygazer at 6:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
"Binders full of women" the new Big Bird?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:44 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:44 PM on October 16, 2012
I'd just like to point out that whenever Romney says "I know what it takes!" it sure sounds like there's an implicit "Why don't you believe me already?!"
posted by nobody at 6:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by nobody at 6:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Nothing says equality like ordering some women from a binder.
posted by ceribus peribus at 6:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [31 favorites]
posted by ceribus peribus at 6:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [31 favorites]
Romney seems peeved healthcare got brought up.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2012
I am so in love with Obama right now for actually discussing reproductive justice and Planned Parenthood.
posted by Phire at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [24 favorites]
posted by Phire at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [24 favorites]
The contraception attack was just great. Although for once I kind of wish Romney had to answer it.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Having daughters vs, having sons.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
THE BUSH BOMB
posted by delmoi at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by delmoi at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
A+ on Planned Parenthood answer
posted by Flamingo at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Flamingo at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Oooooh, Bush, and on the day Bush endorsed Romney!!
posted by cashman at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by cashman at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Obama is ON tonight. Welcome back, Barry.
posted by zardoz at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by zardoz at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
And now he's talking about how women need more work flexibility. Because of course we all have children.
And of course we have to make it home in time to make dinner for our men.
posted by Malice at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [18 favorites]
And of course we have to make it home in time to make dinner for our men.
posted by Malice at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [18 favorites]
difference between mittens and gwb?!?!? YES
posted by triggerfinger at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by triggerfinger at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Bush!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Watch him duck.)
posted by benito.strauss at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by benito.strauss at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Aaaaand... he waits until the followup, and starts talking full on about womens' healthcare and contraception.
Candy: Well, Romney can't answer that. NEXT QUESTION.
posted by zennie at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Candy: Well, Romney can't answer that. NEXT QUESTION.
posted by zennie at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Whoever had "George W. Bush" on your bingo cards, retrieve them from the trash cans and claim your winnings!
posted by tonycpsu at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 6:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
KEEP ASSERTING YOUR RIGHT TO TALK MITT!!!!!
posted by triggerfinger at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by triggerfinger at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012
OMG! Romney can't tell time!!
posted by Skygazer at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Skygazer at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
bush...that's a great question, this idiot will not answer it.
posted by HuronBob at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by HuronBob at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012
If Candy was in his binder, would she have been hired?
posted by mudpuppie at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mudpuppie at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Somehow I don't think really appreciates that question at all. He certainly doesn't seem to want to answer it...
posted by delmoi at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by delmoi at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012
OMGGGGGGGGG, HE WENT INTERRUPTING COW ON THE NEXT QUESTION....... WTF WTF WTF WTF.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
ROMNEY NEEDS RULES! WHERE ARE THE RULES?
posted by charred husk at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by charred husk at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Bush?
BUSH?!
TOTAL AVOIDANCE MODE ACTIVATED!
posted by carsonb at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
BUSH?!
TOTAL AVOIDANCE MODE ACTIVATED!
posted by carsonb at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Fun fact: Romney doesn't know how to talk to people who don't already agree with him. He's confused the people aren't shaking their heads in agreement.
posted by mrzarquon at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [16 favorites]
posted by mrzarquon at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [16 favorites]
How do you differ from President Bush, Governor Romney?
Delicious.
posted by figurant at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Delicious.
posted by figurant at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Romney, get to Bush.
Oh, wow. Romney said "every woman in the world should have access to contraceptives."
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Oh, wow. Romney said "every woman in the world should have access to contraceptives."
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney is ignoring the question of Ms. Katz.
posted by dejah420 at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by dejah420 at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"How do you differentiate yourself from Geogre W. Bush?"
FUCKIN' \m/!!
posted by obscurator at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
FUCKIN' \m/!!
posted by obscurator at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Romney: "Every woman in America should have access to contraception."
posted by koeselitz at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by koeselitz at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Just answer the question, Romney. Stop fighting with the moderator.
posted by insectosaurus at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by insectosaurus at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012
"Every woman in America should have access to contraceptives....unless she works for a religious organization, then all bets are off."
posted by Phire at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Phire at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
What's the difference between you and Bush. That's gold.
posted by ersatz at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ersatz at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
5 Point Plan is the new Lockbox
posted by mikepop at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
posted by mikepop at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
That's a great question that I appreciate, but let me disappear into rules-lawyering and the previous question. [nervous laugh]
posted by Rhaomi at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Rhaomi at 6:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
He really said "The Arabs"???
posted by HuronBob at 6:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [14 favorites]
posted by HuronBob at 6:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [14 favorites]
"President Bush and I are different people."
Well, thank you for that informative answer, Governor.
posted by winna at 6:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Well, thank you for that informative answer, Governor.
posted by winna at 6:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney is just lying through his teeth, acting like not only has he not said what he did about overturning Roe V Wade, but that it's not even a question. Liar liar liar.
posted by cashman at 6:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by cashman at 6:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Free trade, attack China's trade.
Whelp.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Whelp.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
It will be such a strong economy there won't be enough white men! They will be hiring women and immigrants and all kinds of undesirables! Fellas! Get the binders.
That was one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen national candidate say.
posted by Ad hominem at 6:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [29 favorites]
That was one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen national candidate say.
posted by Ad hominem at 6:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [29 favorites]
Oh my god Romney can he be more rude about timekeeping etc. Answer the woman's question, don't "let me get back to you"!
posted by clavier at 6:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by clavier at 6:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Really, contraceptive care for everyone? Even those who work in Catholic facilities? Well, that's....good for another five minutes of truthiness, I guess.
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:47 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:47 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney "my 5 point plan is so different that" it looks different every time I open my mouth in front of a different audience!
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 6:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 6:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Every woman in America should have access to contraceptives. I'll send a memo to my party.
posted by ersatz at 6:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by ersatz at 6:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Romney: "Every woman in America should have access to contraception."
He so obviously does not actually believe that. What the hell. He will say anything.
posted by King Bee at 6:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
He so obviously does not actually believe that. What the hell. He will say anything.
posted by King Bee at 6:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
"I came through small business"...
Yeah, with a bulldozer.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Yeah, with a bulldozer.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
more stumping and not answering the question....Mitt is flailing.
posted by lampshade at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by lampshade at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney came through small business? WTF?
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
also I like how he skeddaled over the lady parts questions like it was an inconvenient lump on the dressage ring
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Bain was a small business... that helped other businesses grow fold.
posted by HuronBob at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by HuronBob at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012
yeah, what does crack down on china even remotely mean? he also said call out china for cheating? what is he talking about? is that a dog whistle?
posted by askmehow at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by askmehow at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah, Republicans NEVER talk about small businesses.
posted by almostmanda at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by almostmanda at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012
Some of my best friends are jobs.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012 [19 favorites]
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012 [19 favorites]
MBA President is MBA President.
posted by carsonb at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by carsonb at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Q: How are you different from bush?
A: Let me tell you why I don't like Obamacare... Also I like small businesses.
posted by delmoi at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
A: Let me tell you why I don't like Obamacare... Also I like small businesses.
posted by delmoi at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Wow, Mittens is gonna balance the budget? Lessee, only the Democrats have ever done that. You are Lying MacLiarson, you poopstain.
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
So the businessman will crack down on China and create 12 million jobs and fix the economy? Teach us economics, Mitt.
posted by ersatz at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ersatz at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Man, if Obama brings up the nonsense Bain is pulling at \the Sensata plant Romney's so fuucked...
posted by Skygazer at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Skygazer at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney "came through small business"? Does he know what "small" means?
posted by clavier at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by clavier at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I don't think "I know how to make jobs happen" means what Romney thinks it means.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:48 PM on October 16, 2012
Someone tell mitt that restating your talking points over and over is not the same as answering direct questions
posted by rmless at 6:49 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by rmless at 6:49 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Aw, small business Mitt...how cute. Are you fucking kidding me, Mitt?
posted by zardoz at 6:49 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by zardoz at 6:49 PM on October 16, 2012
TONIGHT Romney: "Every woman in America should have access to contraception."
TOMORROW Romney: "We can't force business to provide contraception to women! Invisible hand all up in your uterus!"
posted by Panjandrum at 6:49 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
TOMORROW Romney: "We can't force business to provide contraception to women! Invisible hand all up in your uterus!"
posted by Panjandrum at 6:49 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
YES! Reference to Bain shipping jobs to China, finally!!!!!
posted by inigo2 at 6:49 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by inigo2 at 6:49 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
still stuck on binders of women. reminds me of the joy books in Big Love.
posted by changeling at 6:49 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by changeling at 6:49 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Oooh Obama, be careful about talking about the evils of spying on your own population. That's not a road you should go down.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:49 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:49 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Does he know what "small" means?
Yes, its the general description of the paycheck his domestic staff gets each week
posted by lampshade at 6:49 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Yes, its the general description of the paycheck his domestic staff gets each week
posted by lampshade at 6:49 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
"Governor you're the last person who's going to get tough on China." Ooh.
posted by shortfuse at 6:49 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by shortfuse at 6:49 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Andy Borowitz: Romney: "The biggest difference between Bush and me is he believed in dangerous ideas and I believe in nothing."
posted by gladly at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [15 favorites]
posted by gladly at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [15 favorites]
THE LAST PERSON
posted by The Hamms Bear at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by The Hamms Bear at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012
Stop talking about China, just point and say "BUSH BUSH BUSH BUSH".
posted by Theta States at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Theta States at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
OBAMA: Governor you're the last person who's goona get tough on CHina.
OH NICE!!
posted by Skygazer at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
OH NICE!!
posted by Skygazer at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Mitt is flailing.
Not according to the stepfords on my facebook feed ... "Mitt is too legit to quit, not missing a beat from the last beatdown"
posted by headnsouth at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012
Not according to the stepfords on my facebook feed ... "Mitt is too legit to quit, not missing a beat from the last beatdown"
posted by headnsouth at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012
The contraceptive comment is a very interesting slip. I think it's obvious that Romney meant every woman in America should be able to buy contraceptives. Presumably he also believes I should have "access" to private jets and gold-plated limousines.
posted by koeselitz at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by koeselitz at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
George W. Bush Whiles Away the Time Painting Pictures of Dogs
I wonder if Mitt ever painted Seamus.
posted by homunculus at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012
I wonder if Mitt ever painted Seamus.
posted by homunculus at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012
still stuck on binders of women. reminds me of the joy books in Big Love.
Well, he is a mormon. That makes the image even more uncomfortable.
posted by mudpuppie at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Well, he is a mormon. That makes the image even more uncomfortable.
posted by mudpuppie at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE say George was a compassionate conservative.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012
Obama looooves this question.
posted by shortfuse at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by shortfuse at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney's reaction shots show him on the run, knows he's losing.
posted by longtime_lurker at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by longtime_lurker at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012
"George Bush didn't propose turning Medicare into a voucher. George Bush never suggested self-deportation. So there are differences." Hee, amazing.
posted by Phire at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [17 favorites]
posted by Phire at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [17 favorites]
Oh Obama is ripping Mitt a new asshole. Sorry to curse you guys.
posted by cashman at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by cashman at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"George Bush didn't propose turning Medicare into a voucher."
OH SNAP.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
OH SNAP.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
"Governor, you're the last person who's going to get tough on China"
posted by ersatz at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ersatz at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Wow, Obama is saying Bush >> Romney on social policy. Talk about... surreal.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Obama is calling Romney on the floor tonight. I want to high five him so hard.
posted by clavier at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by clavier at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"You're the LAST person who's gonna get tough on China!" BAM!
posted by zardoz at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by zardoz at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012
It will be such a strong economy there won't be enough white men!
That is a beautiful encapsulation of Romney.
posted by benito.strauss at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
That is a beautiful encapsulation of Romney.
posted by benito.strauss at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Oh WOW – Obama now making the claim that Romney is worse than Bush. That is a gutsy and frankly awesome approach.
posted by koeselitz at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by koeselitz at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Obama just crushed it on the differences between Romney and Bush, and Romney didn't get a response. That's going to leave a mark.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
Eat another lemon, you liar. Haha.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Q: Obama, How is Romney different then bush?
A: Romney is a much bigger asshole.
posted by delmoi at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [59 favorites]
A: Romney is a much bigger asshole.
posted by delmoi at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [59 favorites]
Dude, no. Think about this for a moment: she is not allowed to ask follow-up questions, according to the rules. So far, she's been exceedingly brave.
We don't need follow-up questions - just someone to moderate the speakers and keep them on point. She should remind them what the question was and push them to actually answer it, not expand the question or ask something related like she's been doing. Also she's just a rambler...
posted by mdn at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
We don't need follow-up questions - just someone to moderate the speakers and keep them on point. She should remind them what the question was and push them to actually answer it, not expand the question or ask something related like she's been doing. Also she's just a rambler...
posted by mdn at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
OMG, Obama is saying "Bush was LITERALLY better than Romney." I'm laughing right now.
Also a bit tipsy, so make of that what you will.
posted by Panjandrum at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Also a bit tipsy, so make of that what you will.
posted by Panjandrum at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Wow, that was a powerful indictment by Obama, outlining how in some ways Romney is the same as Bush and others where he's more extremist than Bush.
posted by wierdo at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by wierdo at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
I'm rooting for Obama but...
Yeah, so Romney should've gotten a rebuttal there.
posted by amuseDetachment at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012
Yeah, so Romney should've gotten a rebuttal there.
posted by amuseDetachment at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012
Here we go.. The disappointed Obama voter question.
Cool.
posted by Skygazer at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012
Cool.
posted by Skygazer at 6:51 PM on October 16, 2012
Ok, the worse than Bush thing was pretty awesome.
posted by Lutoslawski at 6:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Lutoslawski at 6:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Really, that was the question... "What have you done to earn my vote?"
Wow, really.... really? Sounds like something a middle school student would ask.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Wow, really.... really? Sounds like something a middle school student would ask.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Wow, Romney has to face a person who can't afford things.
Will his curiosity get the best of him? Will he say "Sir, where are your bootstraps?"
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
Will his curiosity get the best of him? Will he say "Sir, where are your bootstraps?"
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
There are differences with George W. Bush and Romney....Obama just snapped Mitt Romney like Derek Jeter's ankle.
posted by humanfont at 6:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 6:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
BUSH IS BETTER THAN ROMNEY.
I actually agree.
posted by Malice at 6:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
I actually agree.
posted by Malice at 6:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Obama is winning so of course tomorrow's papers will say it was a tie.
posted by triggerfinger at 6:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by triggerfinger at 6:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
He's ashamed of asking that question. He wouldn't even look at the president. Maybe he was nervous, I don't know, but that just seemed a bit weird.
posted by cashman at 6:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by cashman at 6:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Q: Stuff is expensive, why should I vote for you again?
A: I KILLED BIN LADEN!
posted by delmoi at 6:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
A: I KILLED BIN LADEN!
posted by delmoi at 6:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
amuseDetachment: " Yeah, so Romney should've gotten a rebuttal there."
The format of the second two minutes is up to the moderator, and Romney had been monopolizing those segments. It's not the case that each guy gets a rebuttal.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
The format of the second two minutes is up to the moderator, and Romney had been monopolizing those segments. It's not the case that each guy gets a rebuttal.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Why can't anybody talk about anything but the economy for 10 fucking seconds.
Never mind. I know the answer; I just think it's shitty and small-minded. I want a better job too but Christ.
posted by penduluum at 6:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Never mind. I know the answer; I just think it's shitty and small-minded. I want a better job too but Christ.
posted by penduluum at 6:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
OMG, Obama is saying "Bush was LITERALLY better than Romney." I'm laughing right now.
Yes. It was a beautiful reversal. Obama's saying Romney wouldn't even be as good as Bush.
Whoah.
posted by Skygazer at 6:53 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yes. It was a beautiful reversal. Obama's saying Romney wouldn't even be as good as Bush.
Whoah.
posted by Skygazer at 6:53 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
octothorpe: "cashman: "Ha, Mitt makin a play for Pennsylvania by mentioning Philadelphia."
Hah, like most of PA admits that Phily is part of the state."
Exactly. Trying to win over PA by mentioning Philly is like trying to win over most of New York City by mentioning the Mets. Maybe worse, even.
Anyone who likes Philly isn't voting for you, Mitt. And the ones who are voting for you are afraid to go to Philly.
This is not an exaggeration. I ran into a nice old lady who lived maybe 45 minutes outside of Philadelphia and never visited because she was too afraid to.
posted by Deathalicious at 6:53 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Hah, like most of PA admits that Phily is part of the state."
Exactly. Trying to win over PA by mentioning Philly is like trying to win over most of New York City by mentioning the Mets. Maybe worse, even.
Anyone who likes Philly isn't voting for you, Mitt. And the ones who are voting for you are afraid to go to Philly.
This is not an exaggeration. I ran into a nice old lady who lived maybe 45 minutes outside of Philadelphia and never visited because she was too afraid to.
posted by Deathalicious at 6:53 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
"Binders full of women"
Aaaahh, perhaps he mistakenly referred to his ancestor's wedding album.
ZZZZIIINNNnnnggg.
posted by obscurator at 6:53 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
Aaaahh, perhaps he mistakenly referred to his ancestor's wedding album.
ZZZZIIINNNnnnggg.
posted by obscurator at 6:53 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
You guys broke Metafilter on my phone.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 6:53 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 6:53 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I predict that Romney's response will mention the economy. And that it is not strong.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:53 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:53 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Honestly can't tell whether they're being more aggro or I'm just way drunker this time. Either way, havin' a gas
There was a moment earlier where I thought it might get physical. They were drifting toward each other in that purposeful, tense way I've seen two dudes start up a bar brawl. It is not just the drunkitude.
posted by winna at 6:53 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
There was a moment earlier where I thought it might get physical. They were drifting toward each other in that purposeful, tense way I've seen two dudes start up a bar brawl. It is not just the drunkitude.
posted by winna at 6:53 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
amuseDetachment: “Yeah, so Romney should've gotten a rebuttal there.”
Ms Crowley said the question was similar, so his rebuttal now counts for both, I guess. He talked over her earlier... maybe this is the price for that.
posted by koeselitz at 6:53 PM on October 16, 2012
Ms Crowley said the question was similar, so his rebuttal now counts for both, I guess. He talked over her earlier... maybe this is the price for that.
posted by koeselitz at 6:53 PM on October 16, 2012
I've got to be in work in 6 hours. Fuck you Obama for making me able to watch this debate!
posted by howfar at 6:53 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by howfar at 6:53 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"a lot of us are (struggling)". Us. Huge.
posted by cashman at 6:53 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by cashman at 6:53 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Good question to rattle of his list of accomplishments though. Like whatthefuckhadobamadone.com in video form.
posted by ersatz at 6:53 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by ersatz at 6:53 PM on October 16, 2012
Satan is real. Satan has black-dyed hair and an interrupting problem.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:54 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:54 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
BOOM BIT
posted by mynameisluka at 6:54 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by mynameisluka at 6:54 PM on October 16, 2012
I've spent the last thirty four minutes working on my Mr. Coal costume.
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:54 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:54 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
"I will now tell you what you think."
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:54 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:54 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"Let me tell you how you feel."
posted by The Hamms Bear at 6:55 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by The Hamms Bear at 6:55 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"We can't afford to have four years like the last four years."
I don't know, the part where America didn't slide into an economic black hole looks pretty good to me.
posted by Phire at 6:55 PM on October 16, 2012 [22 favorites]
I don't know, the part where America didn't slide into an economic black hole looks pretty good to me.
posted by Phire at 6:55 PM on October 16, 2012 [22 favorites]
Yeah, I wrote that before the question came up. The last two questions were the same.
posted by amuseDetachment at 6:55 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by amuseDetachment at 6:55 PM on October 16, 2012
"It's the same healthcare plan that he passed in Massachusetts, and it's working well." Booyah.
posted by limeonaire at 6:55 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by limeonaire at 6:55 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Romney's looking a bit punch-drunk.
posted by wallabear at 6:55 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by wallabear at 6:55 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
But who will be Mr. Gas? Was there a third?
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 6:55 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 6:55 PM on October 16, 2012
Just looking at Romney's posture he just seems awkward and douchey.
posted by vuron at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by vuron at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012
Since when is 1.3 trillion double 1.1 trillion, Mr. Romney?
posted by wierdo at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by wierdo at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney's not moving CNN's undecided lines at all.
posted by longtime_lurker at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by longtime_lurker at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012
Obama was railing a bit. I want him to speak to the questioner, and every American who's struggling, and outline how he will help.
He didn't do that, so now Romney gets a chance to look empathetic. Ecch.
posted by Pallas Athena at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
He didn't do that, so now Romney gets a chance to look empathetic. Ecch.
posted by Pallas Athena at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Mitt doesn't seem to be trending very well any more on the CNN chart.
posted by triggerfinger at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by triggerfinger at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012
Dude, my health care premiums have gone DOWN in the last year. I had insurance for two years under Obamacare, and you know what? This middle class lady loved it.
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Romney is sounding tired and slightly peevish-- this really isn't going the way he planned.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Obama, explain bending the curve to Romney.
He's a bit confused.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012
He's a bit confused.
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012
Considering that the Republicans in Congress have tried in lockstep to stop him from doing *anything,* what the President has been able to accomplish is fucking astounding.
posted by zarq at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [21 favorites]
posted by zarq at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [21 favorites]
I am so tired of that middle class getting crushed line.
10 PRINT 'THE MIDDLE CLASS IS GETTING CRUSHED'
20 LOOP 10
posted by winna at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
10 PRINT 'THE MIDDLE CLASS IS GETTING CRUSHED'
20 LOOP 10
posted by winna at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
23 million and 8% . Someone said, keep saying those numbers Mitt... keep saying 'em.
posted by HuronBob at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by HuronBob at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012
Listen Mr.47% black man, I'm gonna tell you what your deal is...
posted by Skygazer at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Skygazer at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney is looking wild, grimacing and unhinged. Obama relaxed and confident.
posted by Flashman at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Flashman at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ha, Romney calling out Obama on past promises or a lack of proposals is priceless. That's why I stay up to watch these.
posted by ersatz at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ersatz at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Funny, Romney gets that adding X jobs and subtracting X jobs = no net change. How does he not get that cutting Y taxes and closing Y loopholes = no effect on the deficit or debt?
posted by Phire at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Phire at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Weird Republicans took over congress and shutdown many of Obama's programs, now suddenly the economy has slowed.
posted by humanfont at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Did Romney just slam Dodd-Frank? Seriously?
posted by delmoi at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by delmoi at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Romney sucks in this format. Jim Leher was his talisman.
posted by zardoz at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by zardoz at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012
He didn't do that, so now Romney gets a chance to look empathetic. Ecch.
Luckily, that's not exactly a strong suit.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Luckily, that's not exactly a strong suit.
posted by Lemurrhea at 6:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Romney only keeps repeating the same ten things.
And maybe ten more things that he changes everytime.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
And maybe ten more things that he changes everytime.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
REAGANNNNN! DRINK UP!
posted by Theta States at 6:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Theta States at 6:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
How in the hell is Romney even able to lie about health insurance costs going up for families under Obamacare without repeated bolts of lightning blowing his perfectly groomed head off his shoulders?
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 6:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 6:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Reagan's just like drinking Bingo, right? Because, dude, that was DECADES ago. DECADES.
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:57 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:57 PM on October 16, 2012
Too bad undecided voters don't know what Dodd-Frank is.
posted by delmoi at 6:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by delmoi at 6:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Ronald Reagan's recovery raised taxes, you lying piece of two-bit suit.
posted by Phire at 6:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Phire at 6:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Apparently, 2.3% is also lower than 2.1%.
Also Romney, there was no systemic crisis in the Reagan recession. And people "dropping out of the workforce" are mostly retiring.
posted by wierdo at 6:57 PM on October 16, 2012
Also Romney, there was no systemic crisis in the Reagan recession. And people "dropping out of the workforce" are mostly retiring.
posted by wierdo at 6:57 PM on October 16, 2012
And I have a binder full of women to go look at!
posted by meowf at 6:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by meowf at 6:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Funnily enough, we don't have a record for your presidential actions OR a plan, Mitt.
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
amuseDetachment: Romney should've gotten a rebuttal there.
He should've spoken up then.
posted by Kattullus at 6:57 PM on October 16, 2012
He should've spoken up then.
posted by Kattullus at 6:57 PM on October 16, 2012
so now Romney gets a chance to look empathetic. Ecch.
posted by Pallas Athena
Don't worry, he won't take it.
posted by benito.strauss at 6:57 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Pallas Athena
Don't worry, he won't take it.
posted by benito.strauss at 6:57 PM on October 16, 2012
Deathilicious: This is not an exaggeration. I ran into a nice old lady who lived maybe 45 minutes outside of Philadelphia and never visited because she was too afraid to.
The Republic of Atlantastan feels your pain. Meet later for sweet tea and cheesesteaks?
posted by Panjandrum at 6:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
The Republic of Atlantastan feels your pain. Meet later for sweet tea and cheesesteaks?
posted by Panjandrum at 6:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Obama up to 63.9% on Intrade. Was at 60% when I checked before the start.
posted by Golden Eternity at 6:58 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Golden Eternity at 6:58 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Romney-bot experiencing empathy overload and data-iarrhia...
posted by Skygazer at 6:58 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Skygazer at 6:58 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I can't wait for the Taiwan Animator's take on this.
posted by lampshade at 6:58 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by lampshade at 6:58 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
10 PRINT 'THE MIDDLE CLASS IS GETTING CRUSHED'
20LOOP goto 10
I'm old...
posted by HuronBob at 6:58 PM on October 16, 2012 [20 favorites]
20
I'm old...
posted by HuronBob at 6:58 PM on October 16, 2012 [20 favorites]
Romney: "The only reason the unemployment rate seems a little lower today is...the number of people that have dropped out of the workforce." Wait, what?
posted by limeonaire at 6:58 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by limeonaire at 6:58 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
My husband and his friends have an awful, sexist thing they say when someone is being too whiny to be tolerated. I try not to use it, but it keeps springing into my head every time Mittens gets in a twist about the time keeping. "Waahhhh, my p***y hurts!"
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 6:58 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 6:58 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
This format is kind of chaotic.
posted by feloniousmonk at 6:58 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by feloniousmonk at 6:58 PM on October 16, 2012
computech_apolloniajames: "But who will be Mr. Gas?"
He magically shows up wherever there are nachos and sodas.
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:58 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
He magically shows up wherever there are nachos and sodas.
posted by Dr. Zira at 6:58 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Romney's using his talking to the help voice.
posted by Flashman at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [18 favorites]
posted by Flashman at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [18 favorites]
Wow, Reagan was better at fixing a recession than Obama is at fixing a near-depression.
I'm better at getting out of a tall SUV than Felix is at opening his chute when jumping out of a space balloon.
I can do anything with these comparisons!
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
I'm better at getting out of a tall SUV than Felix is at opening his chute when jumping out of a space balloon.
I can do anything with these comparisons!
posted by mccarty.tim at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Oh, the disdain on her "Romney..."
posted by The Hamms Bear at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by The Hamms Bear at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Heh. On mic "Lorraine, did I get that right?"
Off mic, seconds before, "What's your name? Lorraine?"
posted by mudpuppie at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Off mic, seconds before, "What's your name? Lorraine?"
posted by mudpuppie at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
hey, he can talk in italics "legal"
posted by HuronBob at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by HuronBob at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney likes mexicans because Ann is seriously half welch guys.
posted by delmoi at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by delmoi at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Ha. She called him "Romney" to his face...
posted by mdn at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by mdn at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Wooo! That patterned pants lady got to ask a question! Roll your eyes at him again!
posted by King Bee at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by King Bee at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012
Oh God he doesn't understand the Funny Foreign Sounding Name!
posted by howfar at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by howfar at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012
"Get a green card stapled to their diploma" - I don't know how well that's gonna play in Arizona....
posted by Phire at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Phire at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney's Binder of Women now has a Twitter.
posted by raztaj at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by raztaj at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Legal Immigrants
posted by octothorpe at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by octothorpe at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012
limeonaire: Unemployment measures the number of people who have no job, but are looking for work. When they stop looking for work, unemployment no longer accounts for them.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I read her opening as "How you dooin, President. Romney, (question)?"
posted by longtime_lurker at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by longtime_lurker at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
"sanctioned" elaborate?
"magnets"
dogwhistle city
posted by Miko at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"magnets"
dogwhistle city
posted by Miko at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Lorraine: Yeah hi whatever Gov, Romney...Hi Mr. President (wink, blush...smiles demurely...)
HA HA HA...
Lorraine is so cute.
posted by Skygazer at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
HA HA HA...
Lorraine is so cute.
posted by Skygazer at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
10 PRINT 'THE MIDDLE CLASS IS GETTING CRUSHED'
20 LOOP goto 10
I'm old...
I knew I did that wrong, but it has been twenty years since I did Basic. My joke, she is broken.
But like a virtuous woman I will not fix it in edit! My flag is nailed to the mast!
posted by winna at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
20 LOOP goto 10
I'm old...
I knew I did that wrong, but it has been twenty years since I did Basic. My joke, she is broken.
But like a virtuous woman I will not fix it in edit! My flag is nailed to the mast!
posted by winna at 6:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Hola. My PAPA was born in Mexico on a Mormon compound, so as to preserve bigamist beliefs.
posted by ericb at 7:00 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by ericb at 7:00 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
DRAFT ALL THE BROWN CHILDREN!
posted by mudpuppie at 7:00 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mudpuppie at 7:00 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Immigration? Let me tell you a personal anecdote.
posted by Malice at 7:00 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Malice at 7:00 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"Lorraine did I get that right"....such a transparent ploy, look, I'm so considerate talking to furriners...
posted by dhruva at 7:00 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by dhruva at 7:00 PM on October 16, 2012
Lulu's Pink Converse: “My husband and his friends have an awful, sexist thing they say when someone is being too whiny to be tolerated. I try not to use it, but it keeps springing into my head every time Mittens gets in a twist about the time keeping. ‘Waahhhh, my p***y hurts!’”
I think you misspelled that – didn't you mean "p***s"? Seems like that would make more sense, anyway.
posted by koeselitz at 7:00 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
I think you misspelled that – didn't you mean "p***s"? Seems like that would make more sense, anyway.
posted by koeselitz at 7:00 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
OK, Obama needs to say something like "now, since Romney didn't answer your question at all, allow me to..." Seriously.
posted by King Bee at 7:00 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by King Bee at 7:00 PM on October 16, 2012
Um, kids of people who come here illegally are citizens if they are born here, Mr. Romney.
posted by wierdo at 7:00 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by wierdo at 7:00 PM on October 16, 2012
"Let me babble for a bit and include an answer to your question." He can't answer this question, he's running for office for pete's sake.
posted by obscurator at 7:00 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by obscurator at 7:00 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Year one...send all the latinos to Afganistan... problem(s) solved.
posted by HuronBob at 7:00 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by HuronBob at 7:00 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"Military service is a pathway to become a citizen". Man screw you dude.
posted by cashman at 7:00 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by cashman at 7:00 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
The kids should be able to become citizens if we can use them as cannon fodder. Yaaaah
posted by bardophile at 7:00 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by bardophile at 7:00 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Holy cow I can't keep up with this thread, but has anyone noted that in addition to kicking ass on actual substance, Obama has wholly eliminated (not reduced but eliminated) his "uhs" and "ahs."
That is one very disciplined man.
Also "binders full of women," omg. Thank you, Mitt.
posted by torticat at 7:01 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
That is one very disciplined man.
Also "binders full of women," omg. Thank you, Mitt.
posted by torticat at 7:01 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
Thank you Gilleraine, did I get that right? Thank you. (jots down name to have her deported later)
posted by ian1977 at 7:01 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 7:01 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Did Romney just offer immigration preference for people who will go fight in the army?
posted by Theta States at 7:01 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Theta States at 7:01 PM on October 16, 2012
Her name is Lorraine! Lorraine! Stop asking her!
posted by A Bad Catholic at 7:01 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by A Bad Catholic at 7:01 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
SERVICE GUARANTEES CITIZENSHIP
posted by ersatz at 7:01 PM on October 16, 2012 [19 favorites]
posted by ersatz at 7:01 PM on October 16, 2012 [19 favorites]
Oh shit, he got Lorraine's name wrong. THE DEMOCRATS ARE SCREWED~!
posted by mazola at 7:01 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mazola at 7:01 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
koeselitz: "Lulu's Pink Converse: “My husband and his friends have an awful, sexist thing they say when someone is being too whiny to be tolerated. I try not to use it, but it keeps springing into my head every time Mittens gets in a twist about the time keeping. ‘Waahhhh, my p***y hurts!’”
I think you misspelled that – didn't you mean "p***s"? Seems like that would make more sense, anyway."
I am using that FROM NOW ON. I can't believe I didn't think of it.
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
I think you misspelled that – didn't you mean "p***s"? Seems like that would make more sense, anyway."
I am using that FROM NOW ON. I can't believe I didn't think of it.
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
MILITARY SERVICE GUARANTEES CITIZENSHIP!
posted by Malice at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by Malice at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Haha.. Bam couldn't get it either. He's doing great tonight though! Hit his stride about 30 minutes in and he's in the zone now.
posted by ReeMonster at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by ReeMonster at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2012
Did Romney just offer immigration preference for people who will go fight in the army?
That's actually part of the DREAM act.
posted by delmoi at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2012
That's actually part of the DREAM act.
posted by delmoi at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2012
Debate #1 "Big Bird." Debate #2 "Binders full of women." What b-word will haunt Romney for debate #3?
posted by audi alteram partem at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by audi alteram partem at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2012
Obama, don't take credit for the crappy economy reducing the number of people trying to cross illegally.
posted by wierdo at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by wierdo at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2012
Did Romney just offer immigration preference for people who will go fight in the army?
DO YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE?
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [21 favorites]
DO YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE?
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [21 favorites]
Romney couldn't run away fast enough from the immigration question-- he gave up the floor to Obama so fast that Obama was not even ready.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2012
Workforce participation has gone down in a serious way and its a real problem, fwiw, but it's not the explanation for whats going on with the numbers now.
Not watching. Can't bear it, but thoroughly enjoying the comments.
posted by idb at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Not watching. Can't bear it, but thoroughly enjoying the comments.
posted by idb at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Obama has wholly eliminated (not reduced but eliminated) his "uhs" and "ahs."
Good catch. totally true.
posted by Skygazer at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Good catch. totally true.
posted by Skygazer at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
tee hee gangbangers.
posted by en forme de poire at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by en forme de poire at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"Lorraine" is just not that difficult a name to pronounce.
posted by headnsouth at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by headnsouth at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
GANGBANG '12
posted by mynameisluka at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by mynameisluka at 7:02 PM on October 16, 2012
"Military service is a pathway to become a citizen"
So we're gonna staff our military with people who aren't citizens ?
That seems... not well thought out.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 7:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
Why does CSPAN, among others, not have the clock time for answers/rebuttals sitting in the bottom right corner? I mean, jesus christ we do it for playclocks in football, isn't it worthwhile here?
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Mr President I love you but there is no such word as "oftentimes".
posted by Pallas Athena at 7:03 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Pallas Athena at 7:03 PM on October 16, 2012
obama says "we did these 3 things and they are 1... 2... 3..."
mitt says "i will do 5 things" and never says what they are
posted by askmehow at 7:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [15 favorites]
mitt says "i will do 5 things" and never says what they are
posted by askmehow at 7:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [15 favorites]
And to think all that he had to do was raise taxes.
And not be thwarted at every turn by a hostile congress
posted by rmless at 7:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
And not be thwarted at every turn by a hostile congress
posted by rmless at 7:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"He said I will veto the DREAM act. We will encourage self deportation...making life so miserable that they'll leave. He said the Arizona law is a model for the nation." BURN BABY BURN.
posted by Phire at 7:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by Phire at 7:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Thank God all those Welsh immigrants now have lawful paths to citizenship and will no longer be stopped because they look undocumented.
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
sketchy gangbangers
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:03 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:03 PM on October 16, 2012
There's a pathway to citizenship for people who have been here since they were children? One that doesn't require them to leave the country for over a decade? News to me.
posted by bswinburn at 7:03 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by bswinburn at 7:03 PM on October 16, 2012
Looks like the flip flops are flapping home to roost.
posted by howfar at 7:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by howfar at 7:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Go Barack, talk about Arizona's POS laws. And tell the crowd how Romney loved loved loved them.
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 7:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 7:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
ersatz beat me to it.
Well, I'm from Buenos Aires...
posted by ersatz at 7:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Well, I'm from Buenos Aires...
posted by ersatz at 7:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Mr President I love you but there is no such word as "oftentimes".
Maybe he said two words...often times?
posted by ian1977 at 7:04 PM on October 16, 2012
Maybe he said two words...often times?
posted by ian1977 at 7:04 PM on October 16, 2012
No, let me ignore your question and go back and answer what I want!
posted by meowf at 7:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by meowf at 7:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Ohhhh man, calling Romney on his support of the Arizona immigration bill. Second-degree burn.
posted by clavier at 7:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by clavier at 7:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Q: Let's go back to self-deportation
A: NO!
posted by delmoi at 7:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
A: NO!
posted by delmoi at 7:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
What a rude asshole...
posted by HuronBob at 7:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by HuronBob at 7:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney's an ass to the moderator.
posted by mudpuppie at 7:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mudpuppie at 7:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"Look, Lorrena or whoever you are, I'm planning on starting a lot of wars, and they won't fight themselves. We're going to need brown people on the front lines, Loretta. All we can import: tell your friends."
posted by gladly at 7:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [28 favorites]
posted by gladly at 7:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [28 favorites]
Candy, please quit telling me what to do. You're not my REAL mom.
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
How on earth has Romney's marriage lasted?
posted by de at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by de at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Mr President I love you but there is no such word as "oftentimes".
Huh? Sure there is.
posted by Miko at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
Huh? Sure there is.
posted by Miko at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
Wow.
posted by ReeMonster at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by ReeMonster at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012
Self Deportation. Candy Crowley ... follow-up and make Flip address it.
posted by ericb at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by ericb at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012
Hey, Mitt, the President can't 'file' legislation. Congresspeople do that. US Citizenship 101.
posted by mudpuppie at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
posted by mudpuppie at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
Nice job bringing up McCain, Mitt. Drape yourself with the sweet scent of victory.
posted by feloniousmonk at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by feloniousmonk at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I swear to god, Mitt, if you ever put an image of you licking anything in my head again, so HELP ME GOD.
posted by goHermGO at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by goHermGO at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
CNN undecided trendline dips below 0 when he is nasty to Candy, flatlines at 0 the rest of the time.
posted by longtime_lurker at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by longtime_lurker at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012
Stop saying "illegals" Mitt, it is not helping you.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Don't talk about being beaten by a losing presidential candidate, Mitt...
posted by fishmasta at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by fishmasta at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Licking my wounds. Oh, someone please make that a meme.
posted by blurker at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by blurker at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Man, it's almost like being President is really hard, Mittens.
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
PRESIDENTS DON'T "FILE LEGISLATION" DAMMIT!
posted by HyperBlue at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by HyperBlue at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
"Let people make their own choice."
So if they choose to stay, you'll be ok with that?
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
So if they choose to stay, you'll be ok with that?
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Oh dear, "licking my wounds from being beaten by John McCain". Bad image mistake.
posted by dejah420 at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by dejah420 at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
"Licking my wounds from being beaten by John McCain." Really, you want to go there?
posted by sallybrown at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by sallybrown at 7:05 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney called people "Illegals". Not good.
posted by cashman at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by cashman at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
"Illegals" oh fuck.
posted by howfar at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by howfar at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
This whole referring to people as "illegals" thing is really kind of offensive, Romney.
posted by limeonaire at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by limeonaire at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
Romney said 'Hispanics'.
They should just loop that over and over and play it in ads.
Oh god he's digging a crater with the self-deportation comment justification.
posted by winna at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
They should just loop that over and over and play it in ads.
Oh god he's digging a crater with the self-deportation comment justification.
posted by winna at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney is giggling nervously, talking about licking wounds.
Obama, just offer to let him quit now.
It'll look civil.
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012
Obama, just offer to let him quit now.
It'll look civil.
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012
My 5-year-old son just pointed at Mitt Romney and said "hey, he's a dumb one". Then went back to Disney Jr. on the iPad.
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [36 favorites]
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [36 favorites]
Did Romney really say "illegals"?
posted by octothorpe at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
[crosstalk]
posted by audi alteram partem at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by audi alteram partem at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Romney says he is not in favor of stopping illegal immigration.
posted by wierdo at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by wierdo at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012
I love that Romney presents "they can't get the benefits they want" before "they can't get the jobs they want" as a reason to, uh, self-deport.
posted by asperity at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by asperity at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012
Yes, call undocumented immigrants "illegals", they love that and don't detect the pandering to the right wing at all.
posted by bswinburn at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by bswinburn at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012
Oh pension snap.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by jason_steakums at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012
"My pension is not as big as yours." BOOM.
posted by Phire at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [18 favorites]
posted by Phire at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [18 favorites]
Damn! "Not as big as yours"
posted by Miko at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Miko at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
ROMENY LICKS HIMSELF!
posted by ian1977 at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
"I don't look at my pension, it's not as big as yours."
NICE.
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
NICE.
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Blind Trust bullshit is bullshit
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney is in full meltdown.
posted by Ad hominem at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Ad hominem at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
This is getting painful... the all talking at once, saying nothing thing...
posted by mdn at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by mdn at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012
Ohhhhhhh burn. "I don't look at my pension, it's not as big as yours."
posted by limeonaire at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by limeonaire at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Omg, Obama is having to, quite literally, throw the weight of the presidency behind the moderator to get this thing to move along.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Seriously, Governor. MittaTalk.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
Fucking bully for president. NO THANKS MITTENS.
posted by HyperBlue at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by HyperBlue at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Feburary 2008: Right Wing Anoints Mitt Romney The New ‘Face Of Conservatism’
posted by homunculus at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by homunculus at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012
it's not as big as yours so it doesn't take as long. LITERAL LOL.
posted by en forme de poire at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by en forme de poire at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
The funny part about a pension measuring contest is that, in politics anyways, the smaller one wins.
posted by Panjandrum at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Panjandrum at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Mittens is going off the reservation about the cayman islands.
posted by dejah420 at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by dejah420 at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012
"If I could just have you SIT DOWN GOVERNOR ROMNEY THANK YOU"
posted by headnsouth at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by headnsouth at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Big laugh...he's attacking Obama for having a pension now?
posted by howfar at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by howfar at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
OMG CANDY JUST TOLD ROMNEY TO SIT DOWN!!!! GO CANDY GO!!!
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
"Mr. Obama, do you look at your blind trust!?"
"It's not as big as yours..."
Why did he open himself up to that? He really should have just let it go.
posted by delmoi at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
"It's not as big as yours..."
Why did he open himself up to that? He really should have just let it go.
posted by delmoi at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Romney oh my god stop being a douche to the moderator.
posted by clavier at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by clavier at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012
I don't look at my pension, it's not as big a yours, it doesn't take me as long
posted by triggerfinger at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by triggerfinger at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"His top advisor on immigration is the guy who designed the entirety of it [the Arizona law]." Bam!
posted by limeonaire at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by limeonaire at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
That is going to play well to the right -- Obama won't let Romney explain, he's so mean, Romney must be correct!
posted by inigo2 at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by inigo2 at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012
Wow, this debate is kind of a mess.
posted by insectosaurus at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by insectosaurus at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
That interchange went really really badly for Romney there.
posted by vuron at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by vuron at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012
This is hard to watch. Almost feel sorry for Romney.
posted by jamesonandwater at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by jamesonandwater at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012
Deck him, Mr President. I am totally releasing you from any sort of moral compunction against physical violence against this interrupting cow.
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Oh god I was so focused on the use of 'Hispanics' that I didn't even HEAR that he said 'illegals'.
posted by winna at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by winna at 7:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
"Have you looked at your pension? Let me give you some advice."
Shut up, Fuckface Romney! You are a smug, entitled asshole!
posted by ericb at 7:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Shut up, Fuckface Romney! You are a smug, entitled asshole!
posted by ericb at 7:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I hope to god someone finds a way for candidates to discuss issues in a manner that makes us proud, because this isn't it..
I don't want to vote for either of them.
posted by HuronBob at 7:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I don't want to vote for either of them.
posted by HuronBob at 7:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
bindersfullofwomen.tumblr.com
You knew that was coming but dang the internet is quick.
posted by cashman at 7:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
You knew that was coming but dang the internet is quick.
posted by cashman at 7:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
I'm sorry, that man should not even be a hopeful. How did that happen?
posted by de at 7:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by de at 7:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Obama: "Carrie's a dude?"
posted by maryr at 7:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by maryr at 7:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
"Mr. Obama, do you look at your blind trust!?"
"It's not as big as yours..."
Why did he open himself up to that? He really should have just let it go.
I don't know, I thought that was pretty funny. 99% of Americans don't have blind trusts, and many of them don't even have pensions or 401Ks.
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
"Don't go away, Mr. President."
"I'm here."
'Bout time.
posted by Panjandrum at 7:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
"I'm here."
'Bout time.
posted by Panjandrum at 7:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Such a plant.
posted by Miko at 7:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by Miko at 7:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
GLOBAL TELECOM SUPPLY IN MINNEOLA SITTING AROUND AND TALKING ABOUT LIBYA
posted by King Bee at 7:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
posted by King Bee at 7:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
Q: "Let me tell you how much the company I work rocks... Now, on Libya"
posted by delmoi at 7:09 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by delmoi at 7:09 PM on October 16, 2012
People have short memories. Republicans tried to crucify GW over sensible immigration ideas.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Oh god I was so focused on the use of 'Hispanics' that I didn't even HEAR that he said 'illegals'.
As soon as he slips up and says NEGROES or COLOREDS i am downing this entire bottle of tequila.
posted by elizardbits at 7:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [28 favorites]
As soon as he slips up and says NEGROES or COLOREDS i am downing this entire bottle of tequila.
posted by elizardbits at 7:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [28 favorites]
I'm sorry, that man should not even be a hopeful. How did that happen?
Trump Gingrich Perry Bachman Cain Santorum Gingrich.
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
Trump Gingrich Perry Bachman Cain Santorum Gingrich.
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
Quoting a friend: "Self-deportation": what Mitt's grandparents did to avoid U.S. polygamy laws."
posted by Miko at 7:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [23 favorites]
posted by Miko at 7:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [23 favorites]
If Mitt gets in the President's face one more goddamn time....I LOVE how Obama just laughs him off.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 7:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 7:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Wow, this debate is kind of a mess.
No, Jim Leher was a mess.
posted by zardoz at 7:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
No, Jim Leher was a mess.
posted by zardoz at 7:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
Pretty obvious that Romney was going for a zinger and hoping to get Obama to say "I don't look at my portfolio" or some such.
Just what I thought btw.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:10 PM on October 16, 2012
Just what I thought btw.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:10 PM on October 16, 2012
Woah! Did you hear the smooth in his voice when he said..."Okay...hi Kerry"
posted by ian1977 at 7:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 7:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Lets see if Romney has the balls to tell obama to "man up" on this, like his advisers have been saying he will...
posted by delmoi at 7:10 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by delmoi at 7:10 PM on October 16, 2012
Why did I know that Cary was going to try to bring up a "gotcha question"?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
As soon as he slips up and says NEGROES or COLOREDS i am downing this entire bottle of tequila.
Don't do that baby bean we don't have universal health care and the emergency room bill would be astronomical for alcohol poisoning.
posted by winna at 7:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
Don't do that baby bean we don't have universal health care and the emergency room bill would be astronomical for alcohol poisoning.
posted by winna at 7:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
"That's now how a commander in chief operates." That's a really great line.
posted by Phire at 7:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by Phire at 7:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
"Military service is a pathway to become a citizen"
Wasn't that the plot of Starship Troopers? We're going to start sending hopeful citizens to other planets to fight gigantic bugs?
posted by fuse theorem at 7:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Wasn't that the plot of Starship Troopers? We're going to start sending hopeful citizens to other planets to fight gigantic bugs?
posted by fuse theorem at 7:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Mitt is SO coming off like some lily-tighty-white talking down to the Negro Help.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 7:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 7:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
>i am downing this entire bottle of tequila
Tequila, huh? You sound like on those Anchor Drunks.
posted by Panjandrum at 7:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Tequila, huh? You sound like on those Anchor Drunks.
posted by Panjandrum at 7:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Wait, there's tequila...??? I just have wine.
posted by HuronBob at 7:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by HuronBob at 7:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Here is the demeanor I wanted Obama to settle into. Focused, forceful, strong voiced. I am so glad to see him back.
posted by cashman at 7:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by cashman at 7:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
I was just told that "Binders full of Women" is trending on twitter.
posted by cashman at 7:11 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by cashman at 7:11 PM on October 16, 2012
*cringes at the heaving, breathing, red-faced Angry Romney. God help us.*
posted by mynameisluka at 7:11 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by mynameisluka at 7:11 PM on October 16, 2012
romney is so red and close to meltdown
posted by triggerfinger at 7:11 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by triggerfinger at 7:11 PM on October 16, 2012
'Thank you Cary, for your question. The funds will be in your account in three business days.'
posted by winna at 7:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by winna at 7:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
This doesn't look presidential on either of their parts, but Obama is backed into a corner on this. Last time when he just let Mitt be the lone asshole, he got called a wimp, so this time Obama has to throw in there with Mitt.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 7:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 7:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Why didn't he mention the $300odd million in funding the Republicans blocked?
posted by inigo2 at 7:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by inigo2 at 7:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
The Romney smile is now like a half smirk.
This has got to be killing Romney - to be called on the carpet without mercy. Something a CEO is not used to that often.
posted by lampshade at 7:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
This has got to be killing Romney - to be called on the carpet without mercy. Something a CEO is not used to that often.
posted by lampshade at 7:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
That was a good ending to Obama's answer.
Mitt flat-out just said it was Obama's fault.
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2012
Mitt flat-out just said it was Obama's fault.
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2012
So the question was roughly, "The State Department refused extra security [in Libya]—who was it that denied enhanced security, and why?" Obama's not really answering that question...and now Romney's turning it around with the feigned empathy.
posted by limeonaire at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by limeonaire at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2012
I'm a little amazed at how quickly Romney has run out of energy-- he sounds like he has been up for more than 24 hours.
Obama, on the other hand sounds great, very energetic.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Obama, on the other hand sounds great, very energetic.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Wait, there's tequila...??? I just have wine.
hey me too! pass the good stuff!
posted by Lutoslawski at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2012
hey me too! pass the good stuff!
posted by Lutoslawski at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney lies again: Obama said it was a terrorist attack on the 12th.
posted by wierdo at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by wierdo at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2012
Wow, this debate is kind of a mess.
No, Jim Leher was a mess.
No, Jim Lehrer didn't even show up to moderate. At least I can HEAR Candy sometimes.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
No, Jim Leher was a mess.
No, Jim Lehrer didn't even show up to moderate. At least I can HEAR Candy sometimes.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I hope Obama has seen the NYTimes article that says yes, it was because of the video.
posted by cashman at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by cashman at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney sounds terrible on this answer.
posted by octothorpe at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by octothorpe at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Maybe because it's really hard to figure out crime scenes in Libya? And analysis takes time?
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney in critical overload mode...bzzt..bzzt...Libya....
posted by Skygazer at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Skygazer at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Tequila? Self-Deport yourself, you illegal, drink Kentucky straight bourbon (I'm drinking vodka, and on the next flight to Novosibirsk thank you very much)
posted by King Bee at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by King Bee at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I've long felt that this issue was not going to get the traction Romney's team wants. This sort of cements that perception. Obama's team made a mistake, they take responsibility, it's tragic, it's a difficult world that's in a fucking mess. Let it go. Stop trying to score political points on it. It looks freaking bad.
posted by Miko at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by Miko at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
A preemptive strike. "I am ultimately responsible."
posted by Golden Eternity at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Golden Eternity at 7:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
YEAH IT TAKES TIME TO KNOW THINGS FUCKHEAD.
posted by delmoi at 7:13 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by delmoi at 7:13 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Why didn't he mention the $300odd million in funding the Republicans blocked?
That's part of the follow-up.
posted by dobi at 7:13 PM on October 16, 2012
That's part of the follow-up.
posted by dobi at 7:13 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney was compared unfavorably to W? damn, I'm missing a good one aren't I. I'm hoping he short-circuits here..
posted by ninjew at 7:13 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ninjew at 7:13 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Is that what they call presidential? Mitt is looking like amateur hour here in contrast.
posted by ersatz at 7:13 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by ersatz at 7:13 PM on October 16, 2012
SYMBOLIC SIGNIFICANCE
posted by mynameisluka at 7:13 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mynameisluka at 7:13 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
If Obama went to the bathroom Romeny would say he was taking a metaphorical and literal shit on Americans.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:13 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:13 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney looks completely lost in this Libya question.
posted by humanfont at 7:13 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by humanfont at 7:13 PM on October 16, 2012
Wait, there's tequila...??? I just have wine.
I only have beer but I have to work tomorrow, dammit. Why can't these things be on weekends?
posted by octothorpe at 7:13 PM on October 16, 2012
I only have beer but I have to work tomorrow, dammit. Why can't these things be on weekends?
posted by octothorpe at 7:13 PM on October 16, 2012
Maybe because, Goddamnit, sometimes national security means doing the right thing by the people whose lives are on the line - or whose lives have been lost - instead of appeasing the talking heads on Sunday morning political programs?
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 7:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 7:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
oh my god is he calling the Libya info stream a cover up? Way to go Romney.
posted by clavier at 7:14 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by clavier at 7:14 PM on October 16, 2012
What does that mean? "Daylight between us and Israel"?
posted by blurker at 7:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by blurker at 7:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney, what fundraisers were you attending after the Benghazi murders? The internet will know, never fear.
posted by Pallas Athena at 7:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by Pallas Athena at 7:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Iran is "four years closer to a nuclear bomb" the way that I am four years closer to being named supreme ruler of the universe. Did they buy more centrifuges?
posted by Phire at 7:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [26 favorites]
posted by Phire at 7:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [26 favorites]
First time I've ever liked Mitt: he pronounced Iran correctly. One tiny point in his favor against about 40 billion against.
posted by sallybrown at 7:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by sallybrown at 7:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
And what would you have done? Would you have invaded? How do you think, Romney, that they will react to you and your talk of oil independence and your distrust of foreign nations?
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Wow, the end of that answer was a totally rambling. Romney is losing the plot.
posted by delmoi at 7:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by delmoi at 7:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
What happens if I put vodka in my PBR?
Russian hipster party.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Russian hipster party.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Romney sounds terrible on this answer.
He really does seem like he's just winding down. Like his batteries are draining and there's a little monitor by his head like "10% left, save your work".
posted by cashman at 7:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
He really does seem like he's just winding down. Like his batteries are draining and there's a little monitor by his head like "10% left, save your work".
posted by cashman at 7:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Boy, Mittens cow cannot WAIT to get us into another war, can he? Attack Iran, attack Libya, brown people bad.
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 7:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 7:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Obama: "Romney is a jerk whose first response to Libya was to politicize it."
Romney: "Yeah, and that's what I'm going to do for the next two minutes."
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
Romney: "Yeah, and that's what I'm going to do for the next two minutes."
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
Why can't these things on weekends?
Seriously. Not a bad idea, it would become like the Superbowl eventually.
posted by Miko at 7:14 PM on October 16, 2012
Seriously. Not a bad idea, it would become like the Superbowl eventually.
posted by Miko at 7:14 PM on October 16, 2012
symbolic significance, brought to you by the department of redundancy department.
posted by iamkimiam at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by iamkimiam at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012
This is ridiculous and vapid.
It's the distillation of the idea that politics is a boxing match. A fucking spectator sport and equally vapid.
This is not a question of cheering for the home team and screaming at the referee.
posted by cacofonie at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
It's the distillation of the idea that politics is a boxing match. A fucking spectator sport and equally vapid.
This is not a question of cheering for the home team and screaming at the referee.
posted by cacofonie at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Why does it being an attack by terrorists call into question Obama's whole policy in the Middle East? It's just a fact that there are a number of people in the Middle East who want to kill us; do we really think they'd want to kill us less if Romney were president?
posted by limeonaire at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by limeonaire at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Oooh... righteous anger from Obama. This is good.
posted by koeselitz at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by koeselitz at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Awesome. Eat a lemon, you liar.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
"The suggestion that anybody on my team would play politics or mislead when we've lost four of our own, governor, is OFFENSIVE."
posted by headnsouth at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [21 favorites]
posted by headnsouth at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [21 favorites]
Yes, looking right at Mitt. Yes!
posted by cashman at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by cashman at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"The suggestion that anyone on my team would play politics after we've just lost four of our own is offensive. That's not what we do."
posted by Phire at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Phire at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Oh he is mad. There was genuine rage when he said 'The suggestion that anyone on my team would play politics when we lost four of our own is offensive.'
posted by winna at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by winna at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Killed it!
posted by Defying Gravity at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Defying Gravity at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012
HOLY SHIT, I was not expecting that about Lybia. Nice speech, SIR.
posted by Theta States at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Theta States at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012
Nice. Obama says that Romney's accusations are "offensive".
posted by wierdo at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by wierdo at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012
Obama straight telling Romney what Romney said was "offensive", straight to his face.
posted by shortfuse at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by shortfuse at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
I'd like to welcome Pissed Obama to the debate. Pissed Romney has been here for a while.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Obama is kicking ass right here
posted by triggerfinger at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by triggerfinger at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012
Oh yeah, Barry is mad.
posted by dejah420 at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by dejah420 at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
oh my god is he calling the Libya info stream a cover up? Way to go Romney.
I listened to Hannity for like 30 seconds this morning, and he referred to it as such blithely, as if it were common knowledge.
posted by obscurator at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012
I listened to Hannity for like 30 seconds this morning, and he referred to it as such blithely, as if it were common knowledge.
posted by obscurator at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012
Damn. Obama is smacking him down.
Romney looks like an idiot.
posted by delmoi at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney looks like an idiot.
posted by delmoi at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012
STOP TALKING OVER THE MODERATOR MITT YOU FUCK
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Iran is "four years closer to a nuclear bomb" the way that I am four years closer to being named supreme ruler of the universe. Did they buy more centrifuges?
I, for one, welcome our phirey overlords.
posted by ersatz at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
I, for one, welcome our phirey overlords.
posted by ersatz at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Obama: I'm the one who meets the Motherfuckin' caskets, Governor.
Oh shit.
posted by Skygazer at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
Oh shit.
posted by Skygazer at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
EXHILARATION
posted by mynameisluka at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by mynameisluka at 7:15 PM on October 16, 2012
Phire- no they're just spinning them faster
Oh wait, that's US doing that, because it Breaks Them
posted by mrzarquon at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Oh wait, that's US doing that, because it Breaks Them
posted by mrzarquon at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Trendlines topping out, staying there for about 20 secs.
posted by longtime_lurker at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by longtime_lurker at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012
Governer
posted by Golden Eternity at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Golden Eternity at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012
HAHA GET THE TRANSCRIPT MOTHERFUCKER
posted by elizardbits at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
OMG "this is offensive"! Wow!
posted by KGMoney at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by KGMoney at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Hahahaha
posted by The Hamms Bear at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by The Hamms Bear at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012
SMACKDOWN ACT OF TERROR BOO-YAH
posted by mudpuppie at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mudpuppie at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
HAAA! Candy is calling Romney out on a lie!
posted by koeselitz at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by koeselitz at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Oh wow.
posted by Rhaomi at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Rhaomi at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
OH GOD CANDY I LOVE YOU!
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Wasn't that the plot of Starship Troopers? We're going to start sending hopeful citizens to other planets to fight gigantic bugs?
It's a recurring in theme in much of Heinlein's work.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012
CANDY CALLS OUT MITT ON BEING A LYING SACK OF SHIT GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [15 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [15 favorites]
Please proceed, Governor dickhead.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Crowley is fact-checking live! Fucking amazing.
posted by Phire at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by Phire at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
"can you say that a little louder, Candy?"
hahahaha, awesome!
posted by Theta States at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
hahahaha, awesome!
posted by Theta States at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
He's going to spit on the moderator and reject her flex hours.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
Can you say that a little louder, Candy! Romney officially lost right there.
posted by cashman at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by cashman at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Go Candy! Fact-checking on the fly!
posted by Defying Gravity at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Defying Gravity at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Hahaha, people are clapping against the rules.
posted by delmoi at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by delmoi at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
OBAMA IS PISSED AND SHOULD BE!!!!
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
BAM. ZING, Romney you got called out and fucked!
posted by ericb at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ericb at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Get the transcript...
Talk about Death of a Salesman.
posted by Pudhoho at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Talk about Death of a Salesman.
posted by Pudhoho at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Crowley points out the actual facts! There is a fair amount of applause.
posted by winna at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by winna at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I was doubtful about Romney's eyebrows, but y'know, they're really presidential.
posted by asperity at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by asperity at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
OH MY GOD CANDY JUST CALLED ROMNEY ON HIS SHIT AND THE CROWD CLAPPED
posted by craven_morhead at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [21 favorites]
posted by craven_morhead at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [21 favorites]
"Please proceed, Governor, I'm not going to fucking play ventriloquist dummy for you."
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
OH CANDY FUCK YEAH
posted by triggerfinger at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by triggerfinger at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Holy shit, moderator fact-checking.
posted by dirigibleman at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by dirigibleman at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Applause!!! For the moderator. *slow clap for the moderator*
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
You stuttering Romney?
posted by delmoi at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by delmoi at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney missed a huge chance to look presidential when he followed went pit-bull on Obama about the attack on the embassy. He should have just said, 'I agree that when you're president the buck stops with you. Let's move on.'
posted by zennie at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by zennie at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Obama: "Please proceed governor."
That's right, give him enough rope to hang himself.
posted by A Bad Catholic at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
That's right, give him enough rope to hang himself.
posted by A Bad Catholic at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
Uh dude it can both be terrorism and spontaneous, it's not like they have to pencil it in and sign up on a Doodle first.
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
OH MY GOD MITT ROMNEY, YOU WERE FACT CHECKED LIVE. THIRD-DEGREE BURN.
posted by clavier at 7:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by clavier at 7:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
Romney really screwed the pooch on this whole exchange about Libya / terror / Rose Garden.
posted by Flunkie at 7:17 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Flunkie at 7:17 PM on October 16, 2012
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA MODERATION WIN
posted by en forme de poire at 7:17 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by en forme de poire at 7:17 PM on October 16, 2012
And he used the Red Phone again to get Romney to sit down. Mitt has a hissy.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Oh he just hung his head as he went back to his seat!
posted by meowf at 7:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by meowf at 7:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Romney in full indignant tone: How dare Obama go to a fund raiser!? Right,Romney, Im sure you would never do anything like that.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
i have the hugest emotional boner right now ngl
posted by elizardbits at 7:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 7:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Romney melting down a bit there... Stumbling, stuttering.
posted by shortfuse at 7:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by shortfuse at 7:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Holy cow, gun control! I would have NEVER expected this.
posted by Phire at 7:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Phire at 7:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Has someone ID'd Nina Gonzalez? She looks Welsh.
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
/fans self
posted by Phire at 7:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Phire at 7:17 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
And Romney continues to dig himself in on Libya after he just got creamed. The sad thing is that he completely fucked himself. Obama didn't answer the question in the first place. Had he let it go, Obama would have looked very weak in that exchange, IMO.
posted by wierdo at 7:17 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by wierdo at 7:17 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney just lost it here.
posted by ersatz at 7:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by ersatz at 7:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Remember folks, whoever hates the moderator more, lost the debate.
Candy just lost Romney the debate.
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Candy just lost Romney the debate.
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
All debates should be ladies nights!
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
"Weapons that were designed for soldiers do not belong on our streets." YES.
posted by Phire at 7:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [15 favorites]
posted by Phire at 7:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [15 favorites]
Are we done talking about how Candy is a weak moderator now?
posted by craven_morhead at 7:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
posted by craven_morhead at 7:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
Whoa, assault weapons ban comes up. NRA goes into full ballistic mode.
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 7:19 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 7:19 PM on October 16, 2012
Thank you, president, for pointing out that gun violence is a big-picture thing, not something called AK47.
posted by mudpuppie at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by mudpuppie at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
It's important to talk about the larger social issues around systematic gun violence. This is a good answer.
posted by winna at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by winna at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Wow, Obama is saying maybe we should do something about gun control, maybe.
I hope the NRA sends him a fruit basket for the increased sales.
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I hope the NRA sends him a fruit basket for the increased sales.
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
$10 he says "Fast and furious"
posted by delmoi at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by delmoi at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Dude, even I know that "automatic weapons" doesn't mean what you think it means.
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
"I'm not familiar with..." any fucking thing...
posted by HuronBob at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by HuronBob at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Destruction.
posted by waitingtoderail at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by waitingtoderail at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012
Um, automatic weapons aren't illegal...?
posted by mudpuppie at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mudpuppie at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Anyone watching CNN's "undecided voter" graph? How did it react when Mitt was fact checked by Crowley?
posted by jamesonandwater at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by jamesonandwater at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012
I thought the assault weapon ban had expired? Somebody hit me with a cluex4?
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012
NY Times Fact Checks:
Mr. Romney just repeated the false charge — which he also made during the first debate — that Mr. Obama has doubled the deficit.
Mr. Romney charged that Mr. Obama promised the unemployment rate would be 5.4 percent by now. (It is currently 7.8 percent.) This is an old canard
Mr. Romney just charged that “a recent study has shown that people in the middle class will see $4,000 a year higher taxes as a result of the spending and borrowing of this administration” — a claim that FactCheck.org recently examined and labeled “nonsense.”
r. Romney correctly stated that he produced a balanced budget during each of his four years in office. But that’s hardly unusual: every governor does it. The Massachusetts constitution requires that the budget be balanced.
Mr. Romney just warned that Mr. Obama’s plan to let the Bush-era income tax cuts for the highest-earning Americans expire would hurt small businesses. But 97 percent of small businesses do not earn enough to be hit by the higher rates
Mr. Romney said he wanted to keep the Pell Grant program growing. This a new position for him...The governor and his campaign have repeatedly criticized President Obama’s expansion of the Pell Grant program, which they have said is unsustainable
posted by Miko at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [24 favorites]
Mr. Romney just repeated the false charge — which he also made during the first debate — that Mr. Obama has doubled the deficit.
Mr. Romney charged that Mr. Obama promised the unemployment rate would be 5.4 percent by now. (It is currently 7.8 percent.) This is an old canard
Mr. Romney just charged that “a recent study has shown that people in the middle class will see $4,000 a year higher taxes as a result of the spending and borrowing of this administration” — a claim that FactCheck.org recently examined and labeled “nonsense.”
r. Romney correctly stated that he produced a balanced budget during each of his four years in office. But that’s hardly unusual: every governor does it. The Massachusetts constitution requires that the budget be balanced.
Mr. Romney just warned that Mr. Obama’s plan to let the Bush-era income tax cuts for the highest-earning Americans expire would hurt small businesses. But 97 percent of small businesses do not earn enough to be hit by the higher rates
Mr. Romney said he wanted to keep the Pell Grant program growing. This a new position for him...The governor and his campaign have repeatedly criticized President Obama’s expansion of the Pell Grant program, which they have said is unsustainable
posted by Miko at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [24 favorites]
Romney's ticker goes negative when he says he doesn't want new laws on guns
posted by triggerfinger at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by triggerfinger at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
These questions are so non consecutive and varied. Must be really hard to jump around like that in your mind and switch topics so fast.
Guess I won't be president. I am still thinking about the things from 3 questions ago.
posted by rmless at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Guess I won't be president. I am still thinking about the things from 3 questions ago.
posted by rmless at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Okay, converted to Candyism.
posted by mdn at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by mdn at 7:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
Oh Mitt is talking about the culture of violence someone might need to go help miss elizardbits.
posted by winna at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by winna at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Now would be a good time for Romney to point out his experience, vis a vis his forefathers fighting the good fight against the cartel in Mexico.
posted by obscurator at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by obscurator at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012
Point for Mitt actually saying "culture of violence".
posted by Theta States at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Theta States at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012
Change our culture of violence says the guy who wants to jump Syria's shit tomorrow.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
Charles Pierce tweets that Romney signed an assault weapons ban in MA.
posted by Flashman at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Flashman at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
$10 he says "Fast and furious"
You mean $10,000 right? No? Begone.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
You mean $10,000 right? No? Begone.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Solution to gun violence: Ban gay marriage.
posted by delmoi at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [23 favorites]
posted by delmoi at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [23 favorites]
Aaaaaaand the Mormon comes out.
posted by Miko at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Miko at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Romney is agreeing with Obama on gun control. Automatic points to Obama.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012
There better be fucking gay marriage question.
posted by Theta States at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Theta States at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012
Parents are not really a good form of gun control. Just saying.
And ps? Two parent families sometimes include folks who can't legally marry.
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
And ps? Two parent families sometimes include folks who can't legally marry.
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
SINGLE MOMS CAUSE GUN VIOLENCE holy fuck please do not elect this man
posted by headnsouth at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [35 favorites]
posted by headnsouth at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [35 favorites]
Single moms, you should think about how your decision not to abort made people shoot each other in the head.
posted by zennie at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [16 favorites]
posted by zennie at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [16 favorites]
why is he talking about making babies
you don't need machine guns to make babies
that is not how it works
posted by elizardbits at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [37 favorites]
you don't need machine guns to make babies
that is not how it works
posted by elizardbits at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [37 favorites]
" Girls, get married before you have babies. This is how I'd affect gun violence" -- Mitt Romney, 10/16/12
posted by mudpuppie at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [20 favorites]
posted by mudpuppie at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [20 favorites]
LOL FOREVER
posted by mynameisluka at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mynameisluka at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Whoa...your answer to the question about keeping AK-47s off the street has to do with building nuclear families?
posted by limeonaire at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by limeonaire at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Getting married before having babies!
posted by ericb at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ericb at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"weapons that were designed for soldiers in War Theatres... don't belong on our streets."
posted by infinite intimation at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by infinite intimation at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Wait.
Wait.
Romney.
WHAT
THE
FUCK?
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Wait.
Romney.
WHAT
THE
FUCK?
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
WOW, single moms create gun violence! Nice one Mittens.
posted by en forme de poire at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by en forme de poire at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Obama on gun control: "Let's take reasonable efforts to control gun violence."
Romney on gun control: "HELLO BASE, I'VE GOT SOME DOG WHISTLES AND VICTIM BLAMING FOR YOU!"
posted by Panjandrum at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
Romney on gun control: "HELLO BASE, I'VE GOT SOME DOG WHISTLES AND VICTIM BLAMING FOR YOU!"
posted by Panjandrum at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
You mean $10,000 right? No? Begone.
Yeah. Especially since I just won my bet!
posted by delmoi at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012
Yeah. Especially since I just won my bet!
posted by delmoi at 7:21 PM on October 16, 2012
Oh my godddd I can't breathe through Romney's heteronormativity.
posted by clavier at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by clavier at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
"If you are going to have a baby you might want to think about getting married" (said in holier-than-thou voice). I hate him so bad right now.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
I owe Delmoi $10, damn
posted by HuronBob at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by HuronBob at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
delmoi: "$10 he says "Fast and furious""
You sir are a winner!
posted by octothorpe at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012
You sir are a winner!
posted by octothorpe at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012
He's standing next to the President of the United States, who was raised by a single mom.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [78 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [78 favorites]
Is Romn-E seriously arguing that the solution to gun violence is marriage?
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Ignoring a gun violence question and answering it with a more offensive opinion about heteronormativism????
ROMN--eeYYY bzzt..bzzt..zbztb.ztz.btz.sd......
posted by obscurator at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
ROMN--eeYYY bzzt..bzzt..zbztb.ztz.btz.sd......
posted by obscurator at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Automatic weapons aren't actually illegal, just very very expensive because only pre-1986 guns are still legal. They do require a very expensive license from the federal government to possess, though.
posted by wierdo at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by wierdo at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012
oh geez........the unmarried black moral hole...keep it up Mitt..
And there it is! FAST AND FURIOUS
posted by lampshade at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
And there it is! FAST AND FURIOUS
posted by lampshade at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
The violence in America is Obama's fault? What?
posted by maryr at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by maryr at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"I am not a fan of new legislation on gun control" No shit, sherlock, your party would flay you alive.
Oh shit. Did Romney just claim that single moms are the reason gun violence is so bad? Oh you ladies need to close your legs and everything will be peaceful.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
Oh shit. Did Romney just claim that single moms are the reason gun violence is so bad? Oh you ladies need to close your legs and everything will be peaceful.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
SINGLE MOMS CAUSE GUN VIOLENCE
That's why women come in binders.
posted by inigo2 at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [21 favorites]
That's why women come in binders.
posted by inigo2 at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [21 favorites]
Facebook page for Binders Full of Women
posted by triggerfinger at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by triggerfinger at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
GET MARRIED, PEOPLE, OR YOU CAUSE VIOLENCE. I COME FROM THE 50s TO WARN YOU!
posted by ersatz at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [16 favorites]
posted by ersatz at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [16 favorites]
Wow, my parents got divorced, like about 50% of all children's parents do. It's a freaking miracle that I haven't shot anyone, just like it's a miracle every divorced children hasn't. So lucky that miracle happens everyday. That is what you call a miracle, isn't it? Something that's totally and absolutely commonplace?
posted by bswinburn at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by bswinburn at 7:22 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Fact-checked live by Candy again!!!
posted by sallybrown at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by sallybrown at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney in full fail mode here. Candy had to be like, okay dude, come back to the question.
posted by cashman at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by cashman at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Wow. Romney turns a question about gun control into a rant about two-parent (heterosexual, obvs) families.
posted by Defying Gravity at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Defying Gravity at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney now running from his MA record on guns. Ha ha.
posted by shortfuse at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by shortfuse at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
> Point for Mitt actually saying "culture of violence".
Point reversed for blaming it on single mothers.
posted by Panjandrum at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Point reversed for blaming it on single mothers.
posted by Panjandrum at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
And then they created gun babies, who never ever raised their weapons to hurt people?
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"If you liked it then you shoulda put a Glock on it...."
posted by mudpuppie at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
posted by mudpuppie at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
Still reeling from the lighting that just struck through there.
posted by zangpo at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by zangpo at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Automatic weapons means More than one round per trigger pull, that's big guns or older weapons from pre 19__ (I forget the year). The AK47s and AR15 weapons %99.99999 of gun owners maybe have/own are Semi-Automatic.
Meanwhile Romney is in mansplain mode to Candy.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile Romney is in mansplain mode to Candy.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal
posted by homunculus at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Oh, Candy. You complete me.
posted by blurker at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by blurker at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Oh damn Candy calls Romney on his waffling. High fives all around.
posted by clavier at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by clavier at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
I'm in denial.
Did that REALLY just happen??
No way, that just happened...
posted by Skygazer at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Did that REALLY just happen??
No way, that just happened...
posted by Skygazer at 7:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
It was NEVER YOUR FUCKING STATE, NITWITTENS!
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 7:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 7:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"washington is a place that is gridlocked". Yeah jerk, that's because your republican buddies are obstructing everything.
posted by cashman at 7:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by cashman at 7:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Romney sure blinks a lot when challenged.
posted by figurant at 7:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by figurant at 7:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
By the way, talking about violence and guns and Mexico without talking about drugs is moot. But hey, let's not go there.
posted by ersatz at 7:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by ersatz at 7:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
*SemiAutomatic meaning one round per trigger pull.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Most of my adolescence was under a single mom.
WHERE'S MY ASSAULT RIFLE, NOBAMA?
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
WHERE'S MY ASSAULT RIFLE, NOBAMA?
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
Oh you ladies need to close your legs and everything will be peaceful.
but that's where i keep my .50cal
posted by elizardbits at 7:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [29 favorites]
but that's where i keep my .50cal
posted by elizardbits at 7:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [29 favorites]
Mitt's certainly going to improve his standing with single women with these sorts of answers. Get a man already women!
posted by vuron at 7:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by vuron at 7:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
huehuehuehuehuehuehuehuehuehuehuehuehuehuehuehuehuehuehuehue
posted by Evernix at 7:24 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Evernix at 7:24 PM on October 16, 2012
CAPS IS HOW I FEEL INSIDE
posted by triggerfinger at 7:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [23 favorites]
posted by triggerfinger at 7:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [23 favorites]
also I feel like telling President Obama that single parents lead to gun violence is kind of like telling Jo Biden how to feel about car crashes.
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [32 favorites]
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [32 favorites]
Russian hipster party.
Turns out I just start making loktos of atypios.
posted by zennie at 7:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Turns out I just start making loktos of atypios.
posted by zennie at 7:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I don't know what people are complaining about. Now this is a DEBATE. Heated, awkward, and full of put downs. And Obama is KILLING.
posted by zardoz at 7:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by zardoz at 7:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
heh questioner: 'I know you signed legislation supporting the assault weapon ban, so why do you say in your answer now that you don't support it?'
Obama followup: 'Well, Romney was for the assault weapon ban before he was against it'.
posted by jacalata at 7:25 PM on October 16, 2012
Obama followup: 'Well, Romney was for the assault weapon ban before he was against it'.
posted by jacalata at 7:25 PM on October 16, 2012
Unless Obama drops dead in the next five minutes, he wins.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:25 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:25 PM on October 16, 2012
Nassau has a community college? I bet that shit is posh, son.
posted by cashman at 7:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by cashman at 7:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Moderator is definitely better now. Her part in the Libya thing was truly epic, and she seems to have generally got things a little more under control than earlier.
posted by Flunkie at 7:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Flunkie at 7:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Oh you ladies need to close your legs and everything will be peaceful.but that's where i keep my .50cal
Duh, that's DANGEROUS
posted by King Bee at 7:25 PM on October 16, 2012
Guys, the debate is pretty much over.
Binders full of single mothers are going to go to the ballot box.
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
Binders full of single mothers are going to go to the ballot box.
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
I now understand why I so much less than my male coworkers. I'm not in a binder, I don't have guns, and I don't have a man.
posted by winna at 7:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by winna at 7:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
Obama now shutting down Candy. Not good to watch.
posted by shortfuse at 7:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by shortfuse at 7:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
"Governor Romney said that hiring teachers does not grow our economy." Ouch.
posted by Phire at 7:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Phire at 7:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Jesus, why did Obama go into Romney mode there. Just don't do it.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Oh Obama, be a better person, don't be mean to Candy! Stop taking Candy from her job!
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Whoa, assault weapons ban comes up. NRA goes into full ballistic mode.
This is Sparta!
posted by homunculus at 7:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
This is Sparta!
posted by homunculus at 7:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
No Obama don't fight Candy what are you doing
posted by chaff at 7:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by chaff at 7:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Yes please social and educational reform. Go on, call Romney on his dismissal of social programs.
posted by clavier at 7:26 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by clavier at 7:26 PM on October 16, 2012
SENSATA, motherfucker.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Binder clips. Ammo clips. Magazines. It's all connected!
posted by ceribus peribus at 7:26 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by ceribus peribus at 7:26 PM on October 16, 2012
ok....here we go...the Sensata moment
posted by lampshade at 7:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by lampshade at 7:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Barack, SENSATA. Bring it up. Do I have to spell it out for you?
posted by obscurator at 7:26 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by obscurator at 7:26 PM on October 16, 2012
I want more questions about gay rights.
That will never happen, unfortunately.
posted by King Bee at 7:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
That will never happen, unfortunately.
posted by King Bee at 7:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Yes, a lot of good people have lost jobs when jobs have moved to China by COMPANIES LIKE BAIN CAPITAL.
posted by headnsouth at 7:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by headnsouth at 7:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
"China is the largest manufacturer in the world, it used to be America"
HMMMM, could it be because they have 4 times as many people as you?
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
HMMMM, could it be because they have 4 times as many people as you?
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
You need to get to work on that then winna and don't forget to vote Romney/Ryan.
posted by vuron at 7:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by vuron at 7:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'll bet anyone here $10 that HuronBob doesn't pay delmoi.
HuronBob pays, gets his $10 back.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 7:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
HuronBob pays, gets his $10 back.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 7:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Stop trying to make "trickle down government" work, Mitt. It's no Big Bird.
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
"Trickle down government has not worked anywhere. Except, like, Canada, and Europe, and Australia...."
posted by Phire at 7:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Phire at 7:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
jesus, maybe obama just had altitude sickness in Denver?
posted by boo_radley at 7:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by boo_radley at 7:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I wish Obama's answer on this started with "Outsourcing? Oh Governor you shouldn't have even tried to answer that one."
posted by cashman at 7:27 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by cashman at 7:27 PM on October 16, 2012
I love that they're sticking with the "trickle down government" thing!
posted by nobody at 7:27 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by nobody at 7:27 PM on October 16, 2012
Jesus, why did Obama go into Romney mode there. Just don't do it.
Nah, he only did it once, that's ok. It's doing it repeatedly that hurts a candidate.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Nah, he only did it once, that's ok. It's doing it repeatedly that hurts a candidate.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
When Romney goes to sleep, he'll be dreaming of the "terror" fact check. He could have survived this debate otherwise, but that was brutal to watch.
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Stop trying to make "trickle-down government" happen. It's not going to happen.
posted by Phire at 7:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by Phire at 7:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Romney talking against outsourcing is too much too bear.
posted by ersatz at 7:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ersatz at 7:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"Trickle down government" has to be the least descriptive phrase of the election cycle.
posted by bswinburn at 7:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by bswinburn at 7:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
OhHAHAHA Romney talking about outsourcing, priceless.
posted by triggerfinger at 7:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by triggerfinger at 7:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Trickle down govt. Romney is going into rerun mode hoping we will all just remember the first debate.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney prices goods low compete advantageous ** bzzzzz snt! Bzzzzzzzz....
posted by Miko at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Miko at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012
Day 1: I am going to call China names.
posted by maryr at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
posted by maryr at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
Mitt "Outsourcer-in-Chief" Romney complaining about manufacturing jobs going overseas is pretty fucking lol.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
WHAT ABOUT MEDIUM BUSINESS?
posted by ersatz at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by ersatz at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Oh great.....calling China economic terrorists. I guess he will get to that right after bombing Iran.
posted by lampshade at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by lampshade at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
"to make sure i get all the money," cackled romney evilly
posted by elizardbits at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by elizardbits at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
> Oh you ladies need to close your legs and everything will be peaceful.
>> but that's where i keep my .50cal
So basically this?
posted by Panjandrum at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012
>> but that's where i keep my .50cal
So basically this?
posted by Panjandrum at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012
Mitt is THE LAST MAN ON EARTH to hold anyone accountable on trade.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'll bet anyone here $10 that HuronBob doesn't pay delmoi.
Send me an address....!
posted by HuronBob at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012
Send me an address....!
posted by HuronBob at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012
Fuck yeah! Why won't Obama label china! I will label china on day one right after I repeal omabacare!
posted by Ad hominem at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Ad hominem at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
And seriously holy shit neoliberalism turns out to be for poor countries only
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney talking against outsourcing is too much too bear.
Romney talking against outsourcing is just enough to beer.
posted by Theta States at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney talking against outsourcing is just enough to beer.
posted by Theta States at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
What does trickle down government even mean?
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Jesus, why did Obama go into Romney mode there. Just don't do it.
You never go full Romney.
posted by King Bee at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [18 favorites]
You never go full Romney.
posted by King Bee at 7:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [18 favorites]
Right, Mitt, because in your own life you follow the economic rules strictly and play by them.
posted by cashman at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by cashman at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Playing by the rules? Like having Swiss bank accounts? Like Bain's outsourced jobs to China? Who writes these rules?
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Tonight Romney will have a dream about an alternate future where he is in office and has to deal with actual China policy.
He will wake in a gibbering sweat.
posted by Pallas Athena at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012
He will wake in a gibbering sweat.
posted by Pallas Athena at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012
But it may be that the secret speedy tariff rules are part of what the Binder-Americans have access to.
posted by winna at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by winna at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012
Like, is government viscous?
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
China has been a currency manipulator for years and years and years??
America has been a currency manipulator for years and years and years!!
posted by de at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012
America has been a currency manipulator for years and years and years!!
posted by de at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney is going to lay tariffs on China? We have entered full crazy mode, please fasten your seat belts and put all seat backs and tray tables into their locked orientation.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I can't possibly be the first person to think Obama tanked the first debate after this massacre.
posted by JayG at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by JayG at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
China .... -- > Obamacare!
posted by mudpuppie at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mudpuppie at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Canada qualifies as "overseas" now?
posted by clavier at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by clavier at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm looking forward to Romney declaring war on China after we invade Iran.
posted by vuron at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by vuron at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"Trickle-down government" is hilarious, because it's trying to play off of how people remember how "trickle-down economics" didn't work.
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
If I were starting a business, it would be in Canada. Because then if I or my employees got sick it wouldn't be a big deal.
(also I could stay home, which'd be nice)
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
(also I could stay home, which'd be nice)
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
You....you....currency manipulator!
posted by ian1977 at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ian1977 at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yes, Obamacare has been a disaster on companies that want to hire people and not give them healthcare.
posted by delmoi at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by delmoi at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
I love that in the shot of romney you can see the time run out in the big red clock....he's still talking, almost a minute after his clock went off. And hasn't answered the question.
posted by dejah420 at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by dejah420 at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012
Wow the audience just booed Romney on the China question.
posted by humanfont at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Mitt Romney is an equal opportunity lover of wars - not just violent wars, but also trade wars! Hurray!
posted by Phire at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Phire at 7:29 PM on October 16, 2012
Wait, isn't this supposed to be over right now? We're in OT!
posted by longtime_lurker at 7:30 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by longtime_lurker at 7:30 PM on October 16, 2012
>WHAT ABOUT MEDIUM BUSINESS?
It's bad times in the media business.
posted by maryr at 7:30 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
It's bad times in the media business.
posted by maryr at 7:30 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Romney wants to make sure more people are hired...but he's said nothing about how much those people would be paid, especially women.
posted by limeonaire at 7:30 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by limeonaire at 7:30 PM on October 16, 2012
I wish Obama would mention that Romney personally sent jobs over seas.
posted by delmoi at 7:30 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by delmoi at 7:30 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Yeah, people must really hate that gosh darn Obamacare. Who needs to live, hunh? Small business owners don't get cancer! They don't have high risk pregnancies! They don't have children with special needs! Small business owners are made of unicorn tears!
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:30 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:30 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
"If you had a business where would you rather start it?"
Uh here? We have more millionaires than any other country, dickwad, why do you think that is? We are a very pro-business country.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:30 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Uh here? We have more millionaires than any other country, dickwad, why do you think that is? We are a very pro-business country.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:30 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
THe medium business, on the other hand, is excellent. Cross my palm with silver and I will tell more.
posted by Miko at 7:30 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by Miko at 7:30 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
I hear no boos. There were boos?
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:31 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:31 PM on October 16, 2012
God, this isn't good for me. My heart is beating fast.
posted by Miko at 7:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Miko at 7:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Tonight Romney will have a dream about an alternate future where he is in office and has to deal with actual China policy.
RomneyBot is not programmed to dream.
posted by homunculus at 7:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
RomneyBot is not programmed to dream.
posted by homunculus at 7:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
"That will create 800,000 new jobs... problem is they'll be in China, or India, or Germany."
Nice.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Nice.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
I can't possibly be the first person to think Obama tanked the first debate after this massacre.
Whether it was intentional or not, tanking the first debate had an upshot insofar as it drew more attention to this debate, and how it also makes Obama's ebullience look just that much more ebullient.
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Whether it was intentional or not, tanking the first debate had an upshot insofar as it drew more attention to this debate, and how it also makes Obama's ebullience look just that much more ebullient.
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
That China segment was idiotic.
Posted from my computer, manufactured in China.
posted by ersatz at 7:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Posted from my computer, manufactured in China.
posted by ersatz at 7:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
"Trickle-down government". That's so fetch!
posted by benito.strauss at 7:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
posted by benito.strauss at 7:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
I feel like these debates are more about China than America
posted by rmless at 7:31 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by rmless at 7:31 PM on October 16, 2012
I wish Obama would mention that Romney personally sent jobs over seas.
Just did! Happy demoi-mas!
posted by winna at 7:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Just did! Happy demoi-mas!
posted by winna at 7:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Revoke China's MFN status and that'll take care of any talk of tariffs.
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 7:32 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 7:32 PM on October 16, 2012
Miko: "God, this isn't good for me. My heart is beating fast."
My solution to that was bourbon.
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 7:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
My solution to that was bourbon.
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 7:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
LET US ADVANCE TOGETHER TOWARD THE ALMIGHTY CANDY CROWLEY
posted by cashman at 7:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by cashman at 7:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Mitt Romney: "The answer is very straightforward."
posted by obscurator at 7:32 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by obscurator at 7:32 PM on October 16, 2012
How does Chinese theft of IP matter with regards to Apple voluntarily building things in China?
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
oh god I officially know a birther on facebook
oh god
oh god what do I do
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [17 favorites]
oh god
oh god what do I do
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:32 PM on October 16, 2012 [17 favorites]
Romney just accused China of stealing our intellectual property and hacking our computers, and that's why Apple manufacturers Iphones there?
posted by Theta States at 7:32 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Theta States at 7:32 PM on October 16, 2012
CHINA HAX0RZ
posted by jason_steakums at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by jason_steakums at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
China is stealing our intellectual property? They hacked into our computers?
Fuck you, Mitt Romney, from the bottom of my Chinese-Canadian heart.
posted by Phire at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Fuck you, Mitt Romney, from the bottom of my Chinese-Canadian heart.
posted by Phire at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Romney had better hope to god that he does get the Presidency, because after going with this China as the evil empire schtick he is not going to be able to work with the Chinese.
posted by winna at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by winna at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Day 1, I will go to war with China.
posted by blurker at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
posted by blurker at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
Whoa, is the China paranoia a real thing? Who is Romney playing to?
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
CHINA'S STEALING UR APPLE STORES!
posted by figurant at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by figurant at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ohh that pinched, angry smile on Mitt.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by jason_steakums at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Uh, the fake Apple store is not the reason Apple doesn't bring its jobs back to the US.
Obama *nailing* the response here. Create innovation.
posted by maryr at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2012
Obama *nailing* the response here. Create innovation.
posted by maryr at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2012
High wage, high skill jobs...back to education. Yes.
posted by dejah420 at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by dejah420 at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Ahhhh, should've said GOOGLE!
posted by limeonaire at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by limeonaire at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2012
What about people who don't have high level skills? Argh, Obama.
posted by charred husk at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by charred husk at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"God, this isn't good for me. My heart is beating fast."
I used to say that about sex, but I was wrong... hang in there.
posted by HuronBob at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I used to say that about sex, but I was wrong... hang in there.
posted by HuronBob at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
oh god I officially know a birther on facebook
salt and burn
posted by elizardbits at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
salt and burn
posted by elizardbits at 7:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
"We can compete with anybody in the world in a race to the bottom."
posted by entropicamericana at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by entropicamericana at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012
What the fuck was that?
posted by amuseDetachment at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by amuseDetachment at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012
Obama finishing strongly!
posted by Defying Gravity at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Defying Gravity at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012
Calling China terrorists is a choice example of why Mitt Romney will be a disaster in foreign policy.
posted by zangpo at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by zangpo at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
I love that. "There are some jobs that aren't coming back....and we need to focus on other ones."
posted by bardophile at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by bardophile at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
OBAMA TELLS IT LIKE IT IS. We're never getting those low-wage manufacturing jobs back.
posted by clavier at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by clavier at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Government does not create jobs! But I'll totally do so when I'm president.
posted by asperity at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
posted by asperity at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
"Government does not create jobs." ROMNEYBOT BROKEN...HALP.
posted by sallybrown at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [20 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [20 favorites]
Obama is slaying him on that question. Mitt rambled and got cut off, and went interrupting cow it seems....
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012
I was kind of hoping last question would be sausage or pepperoni. :(
posted by mudpuppie at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by mudpuppie at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
"They be climbin in computers, stealin our intelectual property!!!!"
posted by smithsmith at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by smithsmith at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Oh, good question, guy.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by jason_steakums at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012
BEEP BOOP GOVERNMENT DOES NOT CREATE JOBS
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Man I love Obama, he is is even a better capitalist than Romney.
posted by Ad hominem at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Ad hominem at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Barry Green: What meme would you like to set straight?
posted by maryr at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by maryr at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Er, nevermind. Head up my butt. Won't edit that.
posted by charred husk at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by charred husk at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012
"GOVERNMENT DOES NOT CREATE JOBS. SO VOTE FOR ME SO I CAN USE THE GOVERNMENT TO CREATE JOBS"
posted by delmoi at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
posted by delmoi at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
"Government does not create jobs" -- MOTHERFUCKING GOVERNOR Romney
(emphasis mine)
posted by King Bee at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
(emphasis mine)
posted by King Bee at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THINK I AM A CREEPY ROBOT AND MY REBUTTAL IS BEEP BOOP BLORP BLERRRRGH
posted by elizardbits at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [25 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [25 favorites]
47% apology here.
posted by cashman at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by cashman at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
can each of you please tell two truths and a lie
posted by en forme de poire at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [17 favorites]
posted by en forme de poire at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [17 favorites]
Romney last debate: "I will make 12 million new jobs."
This debate: "Government does not create jobs. Government does not create jobs."
posted by bswinburn at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
This debate: "Government does not create jobs. Government does not create jobs."
posted by bswinburn at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
holy mother of all interrupting cows...Romney has been such a dick.
posted by dejah420 at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by dejah420 at 7:34 PM on October 16, 2012
I hope Obama says "I'm not a Muslim." or something.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by The Hamms Bear at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Mitt only managed to say "Government does not create jobs!" twice. You've got to say it three times to summon Reince Priebus.
posted by obvious at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [43 favorites]
posted by obvious at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [43 favorites]
Moo.
posted by jessamyn at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
posted by jessamyn at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
"government does not create jobs...government does not create jobs" it's stuck!
posted by howfar at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by howfar at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm not watching CNN, can someone watching CNN tell me what the live poll meter thingie showed when Romney went all cray-cray?
posted by amuseDetachment at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by amuseDetachment at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Romney, did you just say "Stop hitting me?"
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I hate to harp on someone's accent, but I really don't think Romney's pronunciation of "entrepreneur" helps him among swing voters.
posted by fishmasta at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by fishmasta at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012
be specific
posted by en forme de poire at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by en forme de poire at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney tries to correct misconception that he doesn't care about children.
posted by Theta States at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Theta States at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney's Creed.
posted by zennie at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by zennie at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
"biggest misperception" about Romney as a candidate: he's a robot. AN ALIEN ROBOT.
posted by clavier at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by clavier at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012
THERE IS NO WAY THE PRINCE OF LIES CAN EVER CONVINCE HUMANS THAT HE IS MISCONCEIVED. Oh wait.....*clutches crucifix with trembling hands*
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012
"I want 100% of Americans to have a bright prosperous future."
Oh except the poors. And probably the illegals. And the gays. And the sick people. Especially the poor sick people, my god.
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
Oh except the poors. And probably the illegals. And the gays. And the sick people. Especially the poor sick people, my god.
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
Oh Obama had to play Dad, "Candy some of those jobs will never come back"
I"m sure that Romney would be happy to use his binder to fill some of those slave wage jobs.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012
I"m sure that Romney would be happy to use his binder to fill some of those slave wage jobs.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012
Government does not create jobs? What about the entire defense industry - and the commercial technologies that have followed?
posted by Golden Eternity at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Golden Eternity at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Obama: "Candy, there are some jobs that are never going to come back."
Believe him.
posted by de at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012
Believe him.
posted by de at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012
"I am not a man, dear friend. I am DEVO"
posted by ersatz at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by ersatz at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
"Congregation", not "ward." Telling.
posted by mudpuppie at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by mudpuppie at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Romney, if you are trying to apologize for the 47% video, quit blaming it on Obama. You flapped those lips yourself.
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012
oh god I officially know a birther on facebook
oh god
oh god what do I do
Send them increasingly ridiculous "proof" of other, even more insane conspiracy theories. Breed them into your own little conspiracy bonsai tree.
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [72 favorites]
oh god
oh god what do I do
Send them increasingly ridiculous "proof" of other, even more insane conspiracy theories. Breed them into your own little conspiracy bonsai tree.
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [72 favorites]
47% apology here.
Wow, went there.
Also, serving as a missionary and pastor in your choice is not impressive, because not optional.
Also, we in Massachusetts are not "my kids" or "my people."
posted by Miko at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Wow, went there.
Also, serving as a missionary and pastor in your choice is not impressive, because not optional.
Also, we in Massachusetts are not "my kids" or "my people."
posted by Miko at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Chance for Obama here to finally clear up the misperception of him being a Christian.
posted by shortfuse at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by shortfuse at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"We're all children of the same god." ... Romney, you're a child of Ba'al, too?! Welcome back to the fold!
posted by barnacles at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
posted by barnacles at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
"I care about 100% of the people, unlike what some campaigns characterize me as."
He is setting Obama up here. Is Romney going nuts?!
Obama, it's all yours. Get'er done.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
He is setting Obama up here. Is Romney going nuts?!
Obama, it's all yours. Get'er done.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
No one's buying this "I care about 100%" bullshit Romster,,,
posted by Skygazer at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Skygazer at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012
"I was able to get 100% of our people insured! All 98% of adults!"
posted by jason_steakums at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by jason_steakums at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ah yes, the Olympics. Keepin' it on topic there, Mitt.
posted by mynameisluka at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by mynameisluka at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012
"We are all children of the same god" again. Just go back to your Church, Romney, and leave me alone.
posted by Phire at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Phire at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Whoa, is the China paranoia a real thing? Who is Romney playing to?
White working class men.
posted by dirigibleman at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
White working class men.
posted by dirigibleman at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
WE DON'T HAVE TO SETTLE FOR YOU EITHER DICKFACE
posted by elizardbits at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
"I've sat across the table from people who were unemployed."
posted by Room 641-A at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Shades of the Jolson "Mammy" routine.
posted by Miko at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Miko at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
oh god I officially know a birther on facebook
I have lots of red-staters on my feed, but I "heard" only one conservative's comment tonight, which is, in its entirety: "Con Artist."
posted by Countess Elena at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012
I have lots of red-staters on my feed, but I "heard" only one conservative's comment tonight, which is, in its entirety: "Con Artist."
posted by Countess Elena at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney just Romneycared himself on live television. OMFG.
posted by deanklear at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by deanklear at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
"children of the same god." Well, that's a misperception Romney has about me, one of the 100% of the American people.
posted by audi alteram partem at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by audi alteram partem at 7:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Freudian slip by Mitt - "If I become present, I'll...."
posted by cashman at 7:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by cashman at 7:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Am I the only one here who remembers the separation of church and state?
I really don't want to hear about anyone's religion. Just policy.
posted by rmless at 7:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
I really don't want to hear about anyone's religion. Just policy.
posted by rmless at 7:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
The Olympics, you say?
How Mitt Romney Shook Down American Taxpayers For His Welfare Olympics
posted by homunculus at 7:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
How Mitt Romney Shook Down American Taxpayers For His Welfare Olympics
posted by homunculus at 7:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Romney: We're all children of the same god. My god. Not yours. Especially not brown people gods.
posted by Malice at 7:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Malice at 7:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
answer me right now, was he trounced sufficiently so as to not consider showing up for the third debate? or is that self-awareness subroutine still a bit buggy?
posted by ninjew at 7:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ninjew at 7:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
last question to Romney: What do you think the biggest misconception people have about you is?
Romney: the president's campaign has tried to characterise me as someone who does not care about 100% of Americans. I want to help all Americans, because I believe we are all children of one god. I helped save the Olympics. I got 100% of Massachusetts health insurance. I want to save America for all Americans, including the 23 million people now struggling to get a job.
[massively truncated, I can't take dictation fast enough]
posted by jacalata at 7:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney: the president's campaign has tried to characterise me as someone who does not care about 100% of Americans. I want to help all Americans, because I believe we are all children of one god. I helped save the Olympics. I got 100% of Massachusetts health insurance. I want to save America for all Americans, including the 23 million people now struggling to get a job.
[massively truncated, I can't take dictation fast enough]
posted by jacalata at 7:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Obama's answer: "I AM NOT A SOCIALIST, DAMN IT."
posted by koeselitz at 7:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by koeselitz at 7:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
"Government does not create jobs."
Mr. Romney, there are a few SBIR and STTR grant holders that would like a word with you.
posted by Panjandrum at 7:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Mr. Romney, there are a few SBIR and STTR grant holders that would like a word with you.
posted by Panjandrum at 7:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Nope, not quite.
Well he tried, he just sucked at it.
posted by cashman at 7:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Well he tried, he just sucked at it.
posted by cashman at 7:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Obama, just do an endzone dance. Show 'em ya know about sports.
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:37 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
47%!
posted by meowf at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by meowf at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
47% BURN TIME!
posted by Panjandrum at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Panjandrum at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
BANG! 47%
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012
Mitt, you SOFTBALLED that 47% response in.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Translation: "I believe that Mitt Romney cares about his own."
I concur.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I concur.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Obama: "I believe Governor Romney is a good man!" *fact checkers explode*
posted by Defying Gravity at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
posted by Defying Gravity at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
AND THERE IT IS THE 47% HOLY FUCK
posted by chaff at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by chaff at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
posted by mynameisluka at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mynameisluka at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
OHHHHHHHHHH SNAP CLOSIN' WITH THE 47%
posted by clavier at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by clavier at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"47 million people on food stamps"
All that 100% nonsense was in there to get us to forget the number 47 even existed, Mitt. You just blew it.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
All that 100% nonsense was in there to get us to forget the number 47 even existed, Mitt. You just blew it.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Oh my god, this is brilliant
Attacking Romney on the 47% thing...
in the LAST 2 MINUTES
so ROMNEY CAN'T RESPOND
posted by koeselitz at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [42 favorites]
Attacking Romney on the 47% thing...
in the LAST 2 MINUTES
so ROMNEY CAN'T RESPOND
posted by koeselitz at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [42 favorites]
Man, the people in the front rows look sheepish, like they're being lectured by the President.
posted by mudpuppie at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by mudpuppie at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012
The ticker doesn't like the 47%
posted by triggerfinger at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by triggerfinger at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012
Now folks, there are going to be talking heads.
They will suck.
Watch this instead.
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
They will suck.
Watch this instead.
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Obama brings up romney's 47% quote and the cnn ticker totally flatlined.
posted by jacalata at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by jacalata at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012
Series tied, 1-1
posted by Thistledown at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Thistledown at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Over-under on Romney trying to speak over the moderator after Obama finishes?
posted by inigo2 at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by inigo2 at 7:38 PM on October 16, 2012
OH SHIT HERE'S THE 47% REMIND US HOW MUCH MITT HATES US BARACK
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012
"I believe the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent trash ..."
Oh, wrong movie.
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Oh, wrong movie.
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Here we go ...OBAMA NAILS HIM ON THE 47% remark. CUE THE HORNS!! EYE OF THE TIGER!! KARATE KICKS!! BACKWARDS KARATE KICKS!! CHICKS WITH MACHINE GUNS! ETC...
USA USA!! USA USA!!!
posted by Skygazer at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
USA USA!! USA USA!!!
posted by Skygazer at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
TIME FOR THE TALKING HEADS
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012
No question who won. No question.
posted by cashman at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by cashman at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
GREAT JOB CANDY!
posted by triggerfinger at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by triggerfinger at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Damn. "Think about who he was talking about." Call him out, Mr. President. Call him out.
posted by PorcineWithMe at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by PorcineWithMe at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Obama fucking crushed that.
posted by vuron at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by vuron at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Awesome. Obama mentioned the 47% tape when Romney wouldn't have time to respond.
posted by delmoi at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by delmoi at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
oh god I officially know a birther on facebook
Pretty much my whole family is birthers (and not coincidentally highly racist against black people).
posted by dirigibleman at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Pretty much my whole family is birthers (and not coincidentally highly racist against black people).
posted by dirigibleman at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Wheeeeeeeewwwwww.
Strong conclusion.
Ann not looking confident.
posted by Miko at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012
Strong conclusion.
Ann not looking confident.
posted by Miko at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012
"47%" just increased the blood-alcohol level of thousands of Anericans.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
He ENDS on 47%! Beautiful. Gorgeous.
posted by saysthis at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by saysthis at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Good job, Candy
posted by figurant at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by figurant at 7:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Like OK I'm thinking I'll just JUST CLOSE WITH THE 47% THING IF THAT'S COOL
I love the president sometimes. He had a great night.
posted by chaff at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
I love the president sometimes. He had a great night.
posted by chaff at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Clear winner, Obama, by a mile. Romney came across as a privileged interrupting cow the whole night.
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012
We just won the election!
posted by Ad hominem at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Ad hominem at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Yes he answered it quite well actually
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012
Now to tune into FOX NEWS and find out how much of an ANGRY NEGRO Obama was....
posted by King Bee at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by King Bee at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
CBS feed is immediately "Well....... [SUPER LONG PAUSE] we have never seen anything like that in Presidential history."
posted by jason_steakums at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by jason_steakums at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
oh shit
OH SHIT
ARE MICHELLE AND ANN WEARING THE SAME SUIT
posted by elizardbits at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
OH SHIT
ARE MICHELLE AND ANN WEARING THE SAME SUIT
posted by elizardbits at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
the Binders Full of Women Facebook page already has more than 40k likes. and hundreds more every time I refresh.
posted by changeling at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by changeling at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Ann did not look pleased.
posted by goHermGO at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by goHermGO at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Obama mentioned the 47% tape when Romney wouldn't have time to respond.
Really well played.
posted by Miko at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Really well played.
posted by Miko at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Oh god, the way Ann and Mitt robotically turned together with plastered looks, please gif that. I need a gif of that, dear god I need a gif of that.
posted by cashman at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by cashman at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
Anyone else find it disturbing that the wives are wearing pink, yet the men are in nice, fully formal suits?
Layers upon layers of irony.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Layers upon layers of irony.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Obama looks a lot happier in the post-game.
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Shut up PBS chowderheads! OBAMA!! OBAMA!! OBAMA!!
posted by Skygazer at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Skygazer at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
When Brooks is calling it for Obama you know Romney got his ass kicked.
posted by vuron at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
posted by vuron at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
Rachel Maddow: "This was the best debate of for Barack Obama in his entire career"
posted by delmoi at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by delmoi at 7:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
CBS calls this "the most rancorous presidential debate ever". Also, "it was spirited."
posted by maryr at 7:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by maryr at 7:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
i need cake
posted by elizardbits at 7:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 7:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Even David Brooks said Obama won - "If we have to go by winners and losers."
posted by waitingtoderail at 7:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by waitingtoderail at 7:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
I am so. Relieved. BRB, drinking everything in sight. See y'all tomorrow.
posted by Phire at 7:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by Phire at 7:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Yup. Obama's night. Even the talking heads can't really think of much to dispute.
posted by howfar at 7:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by howfar at 7:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Good job, Candy
Eh, she started weak, but hit her stride. I'd give her a B-
But Romney? He fell apart this evening. Obama clearly got under his skin.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Eh, she started weak, but hit her stride. I'd give her a B-
But Romney? He fell apart this evening. Obama clearly got under his skin.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
limeonaire: Romney wants to make sure more people are hired...but he's said nothing about how much those people would be paid, especially women.
Heh. This "add women and stir" approach was cutting edge in some parts of academe in the 1970s and 1980s. Then people dug deeper for nuances like Where does the money flow? Who's in leadership positions? Who's in control of where the money flows? What are the tacit (unstated) norms influencing who does what, and how do they reinforce the obvious and stated norms? etc.
Romney: I added women to my cabinet! Admire me!
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 7:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Heh. This "add women and stir" approach was cutting edge in some parts of academe in the 1970s and 1980s. Then people dug deeper for nuances like Where does the money flow? Who's in leadership positions? Who's in control of where the money flows? What are the tacit (unstated) norms influencing who does what, and how do they reinforce the obvious and stated norms? etc.
Romney: I added women to my cabinet! Admire me!
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 7:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm calling it a draw.
posted by mazola at 7:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by mazola at 7:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Biden should have smiled/laughed 20% less. Obama should have interrupted about 20% less hard.
They both still won.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
They both still won.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I like how talking heads are trying to shape this as a tie already.
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:41 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:41 PM on October 16, 2012
Chris Matthews "Romney is the guy who leaves his phone on the airplane"
posted by delmoi at 7:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by delmoi at 7:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Brb stuffing victory potstickers into my face
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
> "Government doesn't create jobs." -Guy who wants to be the head of government so he can create jobs.
Yeah, that really is a mindblower.
posted by Panjandrum at 7:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah, that really is a mindblower.
posted by Panjandrum at 7:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yes!
posted by Golden Eternity at 7:42 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Golden Eternity at 7:42 PM on October 16, 2012
From my FB friend : "I can't believe Obama just screamed 'Sexual Chocolate' and threw the microphone down.'
posted by HopperFan at 7:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [23 favorites]
posted by HopperFan at 7:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [23 favorites]
Cake! Cake! CAKE!!
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 7:42 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 7:42 PM on October 16, 2012
Can't get a good look at the crowd sizes gathering around both candidates.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:42 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by jason_steakums at 7:42 PM on October 16, 2012
Wow. It's 4.45 in the morning. And I am so glad I stayed up all night to watch this. It was fucking awesome.
posted by iamkimiam at 7:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by iamkimiam at 7:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
Good point on PBS -- Romney adding women to his cabinet the way he did "was the definition of affirmative action".
posted by inigo2 at 7:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
posted by inigo2 at 7:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
Oh shit, now I can. Romney is going TO the people, the people are coming to Obama.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 7:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Biden is so going to let Obama drive his Trans Am.
posted by lampshade at 7:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [37 favorites]
posted by lampshade at 7:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [37 favorites]
"I've sat across the table from people who were unemployed."
posted by Room 641-A
"I ridiculed their cookies."
posted by benito.strauss at 7:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A
"I ridiculed their cookies."
posted by benito.strauss at 7:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
Obama mentioned the 47% tape when Romney wouldn't have time to respond.
Really well played.
Yeah, but really dumb on Romney's part, like 101 dumb. There was no doubt what Obama was going to bring up at that point, none.
The truth is that Romeny really cracked this evening, just folded like old chair.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Really well played.
Yeah, but really dumb on Romney's part, like 101 dumb. There was no doubt what Obama was going to bring up at that point, none.
The truth is that Romeny really cracked this evening, just folded like old chair.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
This "add women and stir" approach
Absolutely. An op-ed worthy critique of the "binder of women" formula.
posted by Miko at 7:43 PM on October 16, 2012
Absolutely. An op-ed worthy critique of the "binder of women" formula.
posted by Miko at 7:43 PM on October 16, 2012
Chris Matthews on the 'snippiness' of Mitt Romney: "He's the guy who refuses to turn off his phone on the plane at takeoff."
posted by ericb at 7:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
posted by ericb at 7:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
the wives are wearing pink
October is Breast Cancer Awareness month. Women in politics must wear pink ribbons or pink suits. Double points for wearing both!
posted by misha at 7:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
October is Breast Cancer Awareness month. Women in politics must wear pink ribbons or pink suits. Double points for wearing both!
posted by misha at 7:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
From nate silver's twitter, "Pre-debate benchmark: Obama would have a 62% chance of winning an election held today per our "now-cast", Romney 38%."
We'll see tomorrow.
posted by bswinburn at 7:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
We'll see tomorrow.
posted by bswinburn at 7:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Biden is so going to let Obama drive his Trans Am.
Biden's out the passenger side, smashin' mailboxes with a baseball bat.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [29 favorites]
Biden's out the passenger side, smashin' mailboxes with a baseball bat.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [29 favorites]
Romney adding women to his cabinet the way he did "was the definition of affirmative action"
I hope someone researches to see that those women were paid the same as the men in the same job. That was the question, correct?
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 7:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
I hope someone researches to see that those women were paid the same as the men in the same job. That was the question, correct?
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 7:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
CSPAN caller who leaned towards Romney says that Obama was stronger, but he was unhappy with the debate as a whole, no specifics.
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:44 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:44 PM on October 16, 2012
Looks like Obama did what he needed to do. Media may call it a tie, but Obama did himself good tonight, and us.
posted by JKevinKing at 7:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by JKevinKing at 7:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Wow. It's 4.45 in the morning. And I am so glad I stayed up all night to watch this. It was fucking awesome.
3.45, no?
posted by ersatz at 7:44 PM on October 16, 2012
3.45, no?
posted by ersatz at 7:44 PM on October 16, 2012
Borrowing a phrase from Larry on Curb Your Enthusiasm, I think tonight POTUS got in that ass.
posted by fuse theorem at 7:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by fuse theorem at 7:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Fox is talking about how angry Obama is, his clenched jaw, how Romney told Obama to sit down...
Oh, and how good Romney was.
posted by Theta States at 7:45 PM on October 16, 2012
Oh, and how good Romney was.
posted by Theta States at 7:45 PM on October 16, 2012
From nate silver's twitter, "Pre-debate benchmark: Obama would have a 62% chance of winning an election held today per our "now-cast", Romney 38%."
We'll see tomorrow.
Takes a few days for 538 to really catch up because he's professional.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
We'll see tomorrow.
Takes a few days for 538 to really catch up because he's professional.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
"He's the guy who refuses to turn off his phone on the plane at takeoff."
Worse, he's the guy yapping on his Bluetooth headpiece while staring vacantly in your direction.
posted by Miko at 7:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Worse, he's the guy yapping on his Bluetooth headpiece while staring vacantly in your direction.
posted by Miko at 7:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
That on-the-spot fact-check on Libya is going to be legendary. Brutal. Romney is a victim of epistemic closure in a big way here; the right has been reporting from an alternate universe on Libya for months.
posted by gerryblog at 7:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [14 favorites]
posted by gerryblog at 7:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [14 favorites]
I think Obama is more of a pie man.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
ANDREW SULLIVAN WEEPING BITTER TEARS OF OF DEFEAT
posted by boo_radley at 7:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by boo_radley at 7:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
I guess Romney knew Obama was going to bring up the 47%... so he pre-empted it with his 100% remarks. Not very strong, but maybe the best Romney could do considering that Obama got to speak last.
posted by kellybird at 7:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by kellybird at 7:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Fox News reiterating the 'controversy' about whether Obama called the embassy attack terrorism. Has Obama as speaking about 3 minutes longer than Romney, total.
posted by zennie at 7:46 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by zennie at 7:46 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney is going TO the people, the people are coming to Obama.
Obama went straight over to talk to the audience immediately after hugging Michelle; Mitt finished his hug and was protectively surrounded by the rest of his posse for several minutes.
posted by ceribus peribus at 7:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Obama went straight over to talk to the audience immediately after hugging Michelle; Mitt finished his hug and was protectively surrounded by the rest of his posse for several minutes.
posted by ceribus peribus at 7:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Chris Mathews is saying he could have done a little better because the attack was in response to the video. But I actually thought he did really good. Rather then litigating the cause, he displayed leadership and shamed Romney for his political opportunism.
From nate silver's twitter, "Pre-debate benchmark: Obama would have a 62% chance of winning an election held today per our "now-cast", Romney 38%."
It'll take a few days to filter through.
posted by delmoi at 7:46 PM on October 16, 2012
From nate silver's twitter, "Pre-debate benchmark: Obama would have a 62% chance of winning an election held today per our "now-cast", Romney 38%."
It'll take a few days to filter through.
posted by delmoi at 7:46 PM on October 16, 2012
MARTHA RADDETZ WINS ALL YOUR DEBATES.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 7:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 7:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
OMG, NPR just noted the use of "gangbangers" in the debate.
Also, praising Moderator fact checking and saying "facts do matter."
posted by Panjandrum at 7:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Also, praising Moderator fact checking and saying "facts do matter."
posted by Panjandrum at 7:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
That on-the-spot fact-check on Libya is going to be legendary. Brutal.
I really hope that puts some fire under the asses of future moderators, it was absolutely a standout moment.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
I really hope that puts some fire under the asses of future moderators, it was absolutely a standout moment.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
Romney wrote the book on gaslighting.
He's impossibly controlling.
posted by de at 7:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
He's impossibly controlling.
posted by de at 7:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
zennie: the time difference matches the clock on CNN.
posted by bardophile at 7:47 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by bardophile at 7:47 PM on October 16, 2012
Man, I feel like Joe Biden does when he gets a seat on the Amtrak Superliner car.
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
I really needed that VW ad of people laughing naturally. Well timed, advertisement.
posted by maryr at 7:47 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by maryr at 7:47 PM on October 16, 2012
In somewhat unrelated other news.........
Honey Boo Boo backs Obama (politico)
smart girl!
posted by lampshade at 7:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Honey Boo Boo backs Obama (politico)
smart girl!
posted by lampshade at 7:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Mitt finished his hug and was protectively surrounded by the rest of his posse for several minutes.
Tellingly, no one from the audience stepped up to press him.
posted by Miko at 7:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Tellingly, no one from the audience stepped up to press him.
posted by Miko at 7:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Already comparing this performance to the seconda reagan-mondale debate.
Comparing Obama to Saint Reagan in a positive way is never going to be a good thing for Romney
posted by vuron at 7:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Comparing Obama to Saint Reagan in a positive way is never going to be a good thing for Romney
posted by vuron at 7:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Republicans accuse moderator Candy Crowley of asking questions. #debate
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:48 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:48 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
Lol, now I know this isn't representative, but the PBS instant poll has 91% for an Obama victory. It's all us foreigners and Commies watching, I suspect.
posted by howfar at 7:49 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by howfar at 7:49 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
lol postdebate woman on PBS just said "women full of binders."
posted by saul wright at 7:49 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by saul wright at 7:49 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
"Government doesn't create jobs." -Guy who wants to be the head of government so he can create jobs.
Both of them said that, I'm pretty sure Obama said it in his closing remarks.
posted by jacalata at 7:49 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Both of them said that, I'm pretty sure Obama said it in his closing remarks.
posted by jacalata at 7:49 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
National Review's The Corner seems to be calling this a draw and notes Romney stumbled several times.
Also notes that CSPAN callers are morons, which I can't disagree with.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:49 PM on October 16, 2012
Also notes that CSPAN callers are morons, which I can't disagree with.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:49 PM on October 16, 2012
In my fantasy world, when Obama and Romney exchanged brief words during their handshake at the start of the debate, Obama said "Now watch this drive."
posted by jason_steakums at 7:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [20 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 7:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [20 favorites]
I feel limp and enervated now
posted by mynameisluka at 7:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mynameisluka at 7:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
So guys, wasn't that such a TIE??!
posted by obscurator at 7:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by obscurator at 7:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
NBC mentioned "binder full of women" within the first minute after the debate.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I think jobs are developed in America via photosynthesis.
We can't bring in more sunlight. But we can bring in more carbon dioxide.
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
We can't bring in more sunlight. But we can bring in more carbon dioxide.
posted by mccarty.tim at 7:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Had to turn off Fox News, more talking heads who consider Romney the winner, Obama just being angry and defensive.
posted by Theta States at 7:50 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Theta States at 7:50 PM on October 16, 2012
No one puts baby in a binder.
Almost splarfed my last mouthful of Autumn ale. That was close.
posted by Miko at 7:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
Almost splarfed my last mouthful of Autumn ale. That was close.
posted by Miko at 7:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
A teacher just called into CSPAN to say that at his salary rate, Obama couldn't understand his situation. But Romney could.
What?
posted by Lutoslawski at 7:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
What?
posted by Lutoslawski at 7:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
I was really hoping Obama would come up with some flippant line like "Binders? Under my watch women are secretary of state."
posted by cmyk at 7:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
posted by cmyk at 7:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [11 favorites]
teacher just called into CSPAN to say that at his salary rate, Obama couldn't understand his situation. But Romney could.
What?
Private school?
posted by jason_steakums at 7:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
What?
Private school?
posted by jason_steakums at 7:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Obama owned that shit; sneak preview of the foreign policy debate: Obama skipping around with Bin Laden's severed head.
posted by Renoroc at 7:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Renoroc at 7:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
obscurator, I just cackled like a madman
posted by en forme de poire at 7:52 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by en forme de poire at 7:52 PM on October 16, 2012
The man is unemployed, Lutoslawski. Living off his savings.
posted by gerryblog at 7:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by gerryblog at 7:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Artistic interpretation of the debates (by me, with assistance by Boulevard Brewery's "Dark Truth Stout")
posted by hellojed at 7:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by hellojed at 7:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
"I don’t think Obama is perfect and I don’t blindly trust him. but Romney is contradictory, homophobic, sexist, against Planned Parenthood, anti-abortion, focused on the upper class, entirely confused as to what the middle class even IS, environmentally unconcerned, and an asshole".
posted by cashman at 7:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [24 favorites]
posted by cashman at 7:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [24 favorites]
But Christ, C-SPAN has an independent saying he'll vote for Romney because Obama can't understand him as Obama has too high a salary. Okay.
posted by ersatz at 7:53 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ersatz at 7:53 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Blarg! I missed the 47% bit. Is there a video up anywhere?
posted by ian1977 at 7:53 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by ian1977 at 7:53 PM on October 16, 2012
A teacher just called into CSPAN to say that at his salary rate, Obama couldn't understand his situation. But Romney could.
What?
Amazing, isn't it. My wife has a friend who is a teacher that is a diehard Republican. She is voting for Romney because she wants taxes to come down.
How does she think teachers get paid? Teacher salary fairies?
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:54 PM on October 16, 2012 [42 favorites]
What?
Amazing, isn't it. My wife has a friend who is a teacher that is a diehard Republican. She is voting for Romney because she wants taxes to come down.
How does she think teachers get paid? Teacher salary fairies?
posted by Benny Andajetz at 7:54 PM on October 16, 2012 [42 favorites]
The fact that Romney fell into what was basically the cliché "tell us what your greatest weakness is" interview trap is telling.
posted by mikepop at 7:54 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by mikepop at 7:54 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
lol postdebate woman on PBS just said "women full of binders."
Perfect way to describe how I feel after a long day at the office.
posted by sallybrown at 7:54 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Perfect way to describe how I feel after a long day at the office.
posted by sallybrown at 7:54 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Obama's rose garden excerpt:
No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for.
posted by smithsmith at 7:55 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for.
posted by smithsmith at 7:55 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
The man is unemployed, Lutoslawski. Living off his savings.
He's so bad off he can't even pay enough for his horse to win the Olympics.
It is a tragedy of the common man. Move over, Death of a Salesman!
posted by winna at 7:55 PM on October 16, 2012
He's so bad off he can't even pay enough for his horse to win the Olympics.
It is a tragedy of the common man. Move over, Death of a Salesman!
posted by winna at 7:55 PM on October 16, 2012
How does she think teachers get paid? Teacher salary fairies?
The free market will take care of it!
posted by ian1977 at 7:55 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
The free market will take care of it!
posted by ian1977 at 7:55 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
So, there's no way Romney can go into the next one without changing his Gish Gallop debate style because it fell so flat on him here. The question is, does he have anything else in his bag of tricks?
posted by jason_steakums at 7:55 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 7:55 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
David Brooks predicting a jump in the polls for Obama after tonight
posted by FreelanceBureaucrat at 7:55 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by FreelanceBureaucrat at 7:55 PM on October 16, 2012
putting all those women in binders is a job, then? yay employment
posted by ninjew at 7:55 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by ninjew at 7:55 PM on October 16, 2012
How does she think teachers get paid? Teacher salary fairies?
Usually via local property taxes, through the state government. Federal taxes won't make a big impact, actually.
posted by delmoi at 7:55 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Usually via local property taxes, through the state government. Federal taxes won't make a big impact, actually.
posted by delmoi at 7:55 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
MSBC is re-running Romney's epic meltdown on Libya.
posted by delmoi at 7:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by delmoi at 7:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
So.. uhh... was Obama's performance in the first debate 12-dimensional-chess or what?
The difference was so big in terms of debating skills. I'm eagerly awaiting the inevitable books and interviews after this election to get an inside picture of the Obama campaign on exactly what happened.
posted by amuseDetachment at 7:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
The difference was so big in terms of debating skills. I'm eagerly awaiting the inevitable books and interviews after this election to get an inside picture of the Obama campaign on exactly what happened.
posted by amuseDetachment at 7:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
The free market will take care of it!
Yes! We've all noticed how eager people are to line up and increase teachers' salaries whenever possible.
posted by Miko at 7:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Yes! We've all noticed how eager people are to line up and increase teachers' salaries whenever possible.
posted by Miko at 7:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Heh, I've got coworkers who are state workers and are diehard tea party government is bad types. It's like they can't really understand that in effect a decent percentage of their salaries come from taxation.
posted by vuron at 7:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by vuron at 7:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
The fact that Romney fell into what was basically the cliché "tell us what your greatest weakness is" interview trap is telling.
Well, he hasn't had to interview for most of his jobs and hasn't successfully interviewed for most of the rest.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
Well, he hasn't had to interview for most of his jobs and hasn't successfully interviewed for most of the rest.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
Mark Shields on PBS mentioned how neither could really afford to be humble because of the stakes in this debate.
posted by Skygazer at 7:57 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Skygazer at 7:57 PM on October 16, 2012
A teacher just called into CSPAN to say that at his salary rate, Obama couldn't understand his situation. But Romney could.
What?
I heard the same thing and my mind boggled. Just now they were reading comments fro Facebook and someone said "Romney crushed him with facts." It's bizarro world out there-- people are hearing and seeing things through whatever political spectacles they have on.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
What?
I heard the same thing and my mind boggled. Just now they were reading comments fro Facebook and someone said "Romney crushed him with facts." It's bizarro world out there-- people are hearing and seeing things through whatever political spectacles they have on.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"The question is, does he have anything else in his bag of tricks?"
He will go into End Level Boss Mode and start jumping furiously and making the screen bounce while throwing extra fireballs.
posted by ian1977 at 7:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [17 favorites]
He will go into End Level Boss Mode and start jumping furiously and making the screen bounce while throwing extra fireballs.
posted by ian1977 at 7:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [17 favorites]
I can't wait until the fact checkers get to the North American energy independence in the next eight five years. Because that is some unlikely shit.
posted by maryr at 7:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by maryr at 7:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
CSPAN's fbook page is 14??-928 for Obama in the debate.
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:58 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:58 PM on October 16, 2012
putting all those women in binders is a job, then? yay employment
Yeah, but we bring interns* in for that kind of job.
*Unpaid, straight out of college. It's good experience you know.
posted by headnsouth at 7:58 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah, but we bring interns* in for that kind of job.
*Unpaid, straight out of college. It's good experience you know.
posted by headnsouth at 7:58 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
JayG: "I can't possibly be the first person to think Obama tanked the first debate after this massacre."
No, I called it last time.
posted by notsnot at 7:58 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
No, I called it last time.
posted by notsnot at 7:58 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I thought that I disliked Romney before but I really really hate him after his performance tonight. What a nasty privileged little putz.
posted by octothorpe at 7:58 PM on October 16, 2012 [16 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 7:58 PM on October 16, 2012 [16 favorites]
Axelrod was asked if the timing of 47% closing was part of (long-term) strategy. He said no, Obama felt it was just the right time to bring it up.
posted by shortfuse at 7:58 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by shortfuse at 7:58 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ha! Jeff Greenfield (on undecideds): Well, they were probably watching the Yankee game cuz they don't care. (paraphrased)
posted by ian1977 at 7:58 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ian1977 at 7:58 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Heh, I've got coworkers who are state workers and are diehard tea party government is bad types. It's like they can't really understand that in effect a decent percentage of their salaries come from taxation.
Just wait until they get a Scott Walker-type in charge.
posted by drezdn at 7:58 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Just wait until they get a Scott Walker-type in charge.
posted by drezdn at 7:58 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
So.. uhh... was Obama's performance in the first debate 12-dimensional-chess or what?Well, part of it may just be his competitive nature. He got bad reviews after the first debate and was just personally bothered by the fact that he "lost", even if it wouldn't affect the overall election.
The difference was so big in terms of debating skills. I'm eagerly awaiting the inevitable books and interviews after this election to get an inside picture of the Obama campaign on exactly what happened.
posted by delmoi at 7:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Mark Blumenthal @MysteryPollsterposted by Bukvoed at 7:59 PM on October 16, 2012
CBS News KN poll of 500 uncommitted voters. Who won? Obama 37, Romney 30, Tie 33
Lots of low information voters calling in to C-SPAN.
posted by Pudhoho at 7:59 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Pudhoho at 7:59 PM on October 16, 2012
"Reince Preibus": Tonight was a great night for governor Romney
posted by King Bee at 7:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by King Bee at 7:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Best comment on Facebook so far:
"DID THEY BRING ME BINDERS OF WOMEN WHEN I ASKED FOR SONS?"
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
"DID THEY BRING ME BINDERS OF WOMEN WHEN I ASKED FOR SONS?"
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Bobby Jindal is on CNN trying to convince us that Romney wasn't wrong on the Libya "terror attack" issue.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 7:59 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 7:59 PM on October 16, 2012
WHEW! Okay guys I'm surprised they cut the bit where Romney's tongue caught a fly out of midair but I'm currently doing body shots with my new bestie Barry O on Air Force Fun with Dj Diamond Joe spinning some classic rock hits also Captain America is real and he's giving me a basket of kittens and also kisses on the mouth laters
posted by The Whelk at 7:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [43 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 7:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [43 favorites]
If Obama has trouble understanding the blight of teachers from his lofty salary then the average teacher must look like an ant from Romney's perspective near the peaks of the wealth mountain.
posted by vuron at 7:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by vuron at 7:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
My best friend is on the phone with me and I can hear the talking heads talking about how the President wasn't 'polite'.
Because the 'no, you listen to ME' tantrums Mitt was throwing were positively Court of Louis XIV at Versailles in their exquisite courtesy.
posted by winna at 8:00 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
Because the 'no, you listen to ME' tantrums Mitt was throwing were positively Court of Louis XIV at Versailles in their exquisite courtesy.
posted by winna at 8:00 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
I'm sorry to ask again, but:
Did I mishear or misunderstand Romney when (I believe) he said that he would not tax interest, dividends, or capital gains?
posted by Flunkie at 8:00 PM on October 16, 2012
Did I mishear or misunderstand Romney when (I believe) he said that he would not tax interest, dividends, or capital gains?
posted by Flunkie at 8:00 PM on October 16, 2012
Anyone who mentions Reince Preibus gets a favorite.
posted by absqua at 8:01 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by absqua at 8:01 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
He will go into End Level Boss Mode and start jumping furiously and making the screen bounce while throwing extra fireballs.
...and grows all 40 stories high like a Power Rangers villain. Luckily, Team Obama brings it Megazord style (Joe's Zord is the Trans Am, natch).
posted by jason_steakums at 8:01 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
...and grows all 40 stories high like a Power Rangers villain. Luckily, Team Obama brings it Megazord style (Joe's Zord is the Trans Am, natch).
posted by jason_steakums at 8:01 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Right in the middle of the post-debate coverage on Philadelphia's ABC affiliate is a Pennsylvania Voter ID reminder commercial. Amazing.
posted by gladly at 8:01 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by gladly at 8:01 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Lots of low information voters calling in to C-SPAN.
That was the case last time too. Really shocking to me, but I shouldn't be so shocked.
Starting to realize: who tunes in to debates? The hopped-up base, and fuzzy-headed undecideds who actually base their vote on things like the debates, rather than on months/years of policy actions and platforms.
posted by Miko at 8:01 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
That was the case last time too. Really shocking to me, but I shouldn't be so shocked.
Starting to realize: who tunes in to debates? The hopped-up base, and fuzzy-headed undecideds who actually base their vote on things like the debates, rather than on months/years of policy actions and platforms.
posted by Miko at 8:01 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Reince Preibus lost his binder.
posted by humanfont at 8:01 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 8:01 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Y'all realize that C-SPAN call-ins have always been crazy crap, and are the TV equivalent to Youtube comments right?
Nobody's vote is going to change from the call-ins, they'll just make you go ragemode so hard.
posted by amuseDetachment at 8:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Nobody's vote is going to change from the call-ins, they'll just make you go ragemode so hard.
posted by amuseDetachment at 8:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Did I mishear or misunderstand Romney when (I believe) he said that he would not tax interest, dividends, or capital gains?
Nope.
posted by zarq at 8:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Nope.
posted by zarq at 8:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm sorry to ask again, but:
Did I mishear or misunderstand Romney when (I believe) he said that he would not tax interest, dividends, or capital gains?
For those making under $250,000, I think.
posted by Lemurrhea at 8:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Did I mishear or misunderstand Romney when (I believe) he said that he would not tax interest, dividends, or capital gains?
For those making under $250,000, I think.
posted by Lemurrhea at 8:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Did I mishear or misunderstand Romney when (I believe) he said that he would not tax interest, dividends, or capital gains?
Yeah that's apparently how (he said) he's going to help the middle class
posted by Flashman at 8:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah that's apparently how (he said) he's going to help the middle class
posted by Flashman at 8:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Reince Preibus sounds like a medical problem to my ears. An intimate medical problem.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 8:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 8:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
"Romney got more tweets than Obama"
Wait, we can't call it until we check the 7-11 cups!
posted by Miko at 8:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Wait, we can't call it until we check the 7-11 cups!
posted by Miko at 8:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'd love to see an organized C-SPAN call-in campaign from Reddit or 4chan.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 8:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Of all the reasons to mention why America should be more like Canada, Romney picks the federal corporate tax rate? And the nominal rate at that - on average US corps pay less than the Canadian rate due to extensive deductions.
Seriously Mitt. There are a million reasons to imitate Canada. The singular number for one tax rate is not one of them.
posted by GuyZero at 8:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Seriously Mitt. There are a million reasons to imitate Canada. The singular number for one tax rate is not one of them.
posted by GuyZero at 8:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
"Romney got more tweets than Obama"
Say no more.
Something something big bird/ birds tweet?
posted by ian1977 at 8:03 PM on October 16, 2012
Say no more.
Something something big bird/ birds tweet?
posted by ian1977 at 8:03 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney argued that the economy needs to be amazingly robust so that employers will be desperate enough to hire women. In other words, he said that we're the least desirable people to hire. WTF?
posted by jiawen at 8:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [23 favorites]
posted by jiawen at 8:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [23 favorites]
Usually via local property taxes, through the state government. Federal taxes won't make a big impact, actually.
It's hard to find the actual numbers, but federal funding isn't nothing. There's support grants, and transportation money, and food money, etc.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 8:03 PM on October 16, 2012
It's hard to find the actual numbers, but federal funding isn't nothing. There's support grants, and transportation money, and food money, etc.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 8:03 PM on October 16, 2012
Hey now, clearly Romney paying a 0.4% tax rate would help the middle class!
posted by Justinian at 8:03 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Justinian at 8:03 PM on October 16, 2012
"Reince Preibus": Tonight was a great night for governor Romney
What? That means some fool released him from his ancient puzzle box.
posted by homunculus at 8:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
What? That means some fool released him from his ancient puzzle box.
posted by homunculus at 8:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
Did I mishear or misunderstand Romney when (I believe) he said that he would not tax interest, dividends, or capital gains?
Yeah that's apparently how (he said) he's going to help the middle class
Christ, what an asshole.
posted by rocketman at 8:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Yeah that's apparently how (he said) he's going to help the middle class
Christ, what an asshole.
posted by rocketman at 8:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
@wonderella: I have a five-point plan, America. It involves wind, water, earth, fire... and most of all, heart.posted by maryr at 8:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [21 favorites]
Jon Stewart is skewering Ryan tonight.
posted by deanklear at 8:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by deanklear at 8:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Okay people, the show is over. Back to the MotherThread.
posted by homunculus at 8:05 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by homunculus at 8:05 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney argued that the economy needs to be amazingly robust so that employers will be desperate enough to hire women. In other words, he said that we're the least desirable people to hire. WTF?
Obviously all those men he gets hired will need secretaries.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Obviously all those men he gets hired will need secretaries.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
My favorite CSPAN call ins have to be the lady who said there are too many black people on it and called the channel "Black Span," and the very upset older woman who called in and said that everyone, including the white house, should take down their Christmas trees in protest of Obamacare because Obamacare's pitting her son against her somehow.
posted by mccarty.tim at 8:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by mccarty.tim at 8:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Jon Stewart is skewering Ryan tonight.
Don't even bring up that shitheel Paul Ryan. Fuck that guy.
posted by rocketman at 8:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Don't even bring up that shitheel Paul Ryan. Fuck that guy.
posted by rocketman at 8:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
>I'd love to see an organized C-SPAN call-in campaign from Reddit or 4chan.
Huh, apparently Ron Paul won the debate.
posted by maryr at 8:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Huh, apparently Ron Paul won the debate.
posted by maryr at 8:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Haha, Andrew Sullivan is on the phone with MSNBC. Not crying audibly, so far.
posted by delmoi at 8:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by delmoi at 8:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
OH SNAP
It even appears to be a snap.
Senator, we have snap confirmation. I repeat, we have snap confirmation.
posted by winna at 8:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
It even appears to be a snap.
Senator, we have snap confirmation. I repeat, we have snap confirmation.
posted by winna at 8:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
and the very upset older woman who called in and said that everyone, including the white house, should take down their Christmas trees in protest of Obamacare because Obamacare's pitting her son against her somehow.
Wait, why is her Christmas tree still up? Is that in protest of heathen trick-or-treaters? I don't want to have to fight my Christmas tree for birth control, I am kind of afraid it would win...
posted by jetlagaddict at 8:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Wait, why is her Christmas tree still up? Is that in protest of heathen trick-or-treaters? I don't want to have to fight my Christmas tree for birth control, I am kind of afraid it would win...
posted by jetlagaddict at 8:07 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Am I the only one who wants Obama's closing statement of the final debate to just be this?
posted by jason_steakums at 8:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 8:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
via Twitter: You guys don't get it. Romney's supporters *enjoy* watching him be rude and disrespectful to a woman and a black man.
posted by Phire at 8:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [30 favorites]
posted by Phire at 8:08 PM on October 16, 2012 [30 favorites]
The Whelk: "Dj Diamond Joe spinning some classic rock hits "
CREEDENCE! CREEDENCE! WHOO!
posted by boo_radley at 8:08 PM on October 16, 2012
CREEDENCE! CREEDENCE! WHOO!
posted by boo_radley at 8:08 PM on October 16, 2012
This is my summary of the debate:
CROWLEY: I got to — I got to move you on —
ROMNEY: He gets the first —
CROWLEY: — and the next question —
ROMNEY: He actually got —
CROWLEY: — for you —
ROMNEY: He actually got the first question. So I get the last question — last answer —
CROWLEY: (Inaudible) in the follow up, it doesn't quite work like that. But I'm going to give you a chance here. I promise you, I'm going to.
And the next question is for you. So if you want to, you know, continue on — but I don't want to leave all —
ROMNEY: Candy, Candy —
With some useless pleasantries, flipflops, and Obama ass kicking thrown in for good measure.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
CROWLEY: I got to — I got to move you on —
ROMNEY: He gets the first —
CROWLEY: — and the next question —
ROMNEY: He actually got —
CROWLEY: — for you —
ROMNEY: He actually got the first question. So I get the last question — last answer —
CROWLEY: (Inaudible) in the follow up, it doesn't quite work like that. But I'm going to give you a chance here. I promise you, I'm going to.
And the next question is for you. So if you want to, you know, continue on — but I don't want to leave all —
ROMNEY: Candy, Candy —
With some useless pleasantries, flipflops, and Obama ass kicking thrown in for good measure.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Mark Halperin (on Charlie Rose): Romney sounded incredibly weak on Libya especially in the moment when he was corrected by Crowley.The president got inside ROmney's head and rattled him. The president won. and it will stabilize things for him. ans it's a great night for him.
Jake Tapper (Charlie Rose): The president had a plan and he executed it beautifully.
posted by Skygazer at 8:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Jake Tapper (Charlie Rose): The president had a plan and he executed it beautifully.
posted by Skygazer at 8:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Aww, Sullivan was deeply disoriented after last debate. Poor guy.
posted by Ad hominem at 8:09 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Ad hominem at 8:09 PM on October 16, 2012
Andrew Sullivan mentioned the "Binder Full of Women" and it's internet-meme ness.
posted by delmoi at 8:10 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by delmoi at 8:10 PM on October 16, 2012
Am I the only one who can't even access twitter right now, let alone post about Romney's ramblings?
posted by inigo2 at 8:10 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by inigo2 at 8:10 PM on October 16, 2012
Mitt Romney's tax plan is like Candy Crowley's debate format because in the end, you just have to take it on faith that the numbers add up.
posted by feloniousmonk at 8:10 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by feloniousmonk at 8:10 PM on October 16, 2012
It's Tuesday night
I'm putting on tighest tie,
my smuggest grin,
my best device for concealing my sexism
and I got everything I need!
Got my body, got my lies, got a binder full of women, b-b-b-binder full of women.
just me?
posted by Lemurrhea at 8:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
I'm putting on tighest tie,
my smuggest grin,
my best device for concealing my sexism
and I got everything I need!
Got my body, got my lies, got a binder full of women, b-b-b-binder full of women.
just me?
posted by Lemurrhea at 8:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Between the VP debate and this one, I think there were at least a half-dozen moments where the Romney/Ryan team were backed into saying "...actually, I agree with the President on that."
posted by jason_steakums at 8:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by jason_steakums at 8:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
OH SNAP
posted by elizardbits
And they should have gifed the whole thing. If you watch the video, right before that Obama takes a sip of water as he has one foot on the floor, and his other leg up on the stool. I think he leaned over and did a shoulder pop and then grapevined over to Candy while she factchecked Mitt. And then after the debate was over, Obama's swag was on 12. He was walking around the stage like he wanted to do that Ace Ventura thing like "yes! yes! yes! ya feel that buddy?" Just strolling. The after-moments of the debate were priceless. I can't wait to see gifs.
posted by cashman at 8:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by elizardbits
And they should have gifed the whole thing. If you watch the video, right before that Obama takes a sip of water as he has one foot on the floor, and his other leg up on the stool. I think he leaned over and did a shoulder pop and then grapevined over to Candy while she factchecked Mitt. And then after the debate was over, Obama's swag was on 12. He was walking around the stage like he wanted to do that Ace Ventura thing like "yes! yes! yes! ya feel that buddy?" Just strolling. The after-moments of the debate were priceless. I can't wait to see gifs.
posted by cashman at 8:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Cory Booker's on Colbert tonight; I'm pretty excited by that.
posted by inigo2 at 8:12 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by inigo2 at 8:12 PM on October 16, 2012
Andrew Sullivan on the phone with Chris Matthews. Andrew is effusive about Obama's performance. Forgives him for his previous debate performance.
posted by ericb at 8:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ericb at 8:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
there should be a third debate except with broadswords
obama will have the one that the crazy gnomes made in oglaf
posted by elizardbits at 8:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
obama will have the one that the crazy gnomes made in oglaf
posted by elizardbits at 8:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
Hey now, clearly Romney paying a 0.4% tax rate would help the middle class!
my last name isn't Romney fuck you
posted by clearly at 8:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
my last name isn't Romney fuck you
posted by clearly at 8:12 PM on October 16, 2012 [10 favorites]
"eagerly awaiting the inevitable books and interviews after this election to get an inside picture of the Obama campaign on exactly what happened."
Josh, playing a prank on Donna, accidentally locked Toby and Sam (and the nervous looking, balding secret service guy with the glasses from the post-debate meet-n-greet) in the basement steam-room, while the president was sneaking a smoke in the middle of a situation room session... allowing for a mega-shout-it-out session, and ultimately, in a fit of deep honesty, Toby said "sir, you need to step it up". Mostly.
I shall presume, anyway.
In the post-debate session, I am watching, and the young guy who asked the education question is standing back, and he looks so much like he wants to go say hi to the President. ah, he got a picture just before President Obama left. Nice.
posted by infinite intimation at 8:13 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Josh, playing a prank on Donna, accidentally locked Toby and Sam (and the nervous looking, balding secret service guy with the glasses from the post-debate meet-n-greet) in the basement steam-room, while the president was sneaking a smoke in the middle of a situation room session... allowing for a mega-shout-it-out session, and ultimately, in a fit of deep honesty, Toby said "sir, you need to step it up". Mostly.
I shall presume, anyway.
In the post-debate session, I am watching, and the young guy who asked the education question is standing back, and he looks so much like he wants to go say hi to the President. ah, he got a picture just before President Obama left. Nice.
posted by infinite intimation at 8:13 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Cory Booker's on Colbert tonight; I'm pretty excited by that.
They tape during the day, though. It'll be the Wednesday episodes that deal with the debates.
posted by delmoi at 8:13 PM on October 16, 2012
They tape during the day, though. It'll be the Wednesday episodes that deal with the debates.
posted by delmoi at 8:13 PM on October 16, 2012
Maybe Obama can bat for the Yankees tomorrow.
posted by shothotbot at 8:13 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by shothotbot at 8:13 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
You know that no one on the TV shows tonight will have seen the debate, yeah?
posted by maryr at 8:14 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by maryr at 8:14 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney needed to win this debate to keep generating forward momentum. His post-debate 1 polling was already beginning to look less positive for him especially in terms of his electoral college chances (although pretty decent in terms of popular vote).
An Obama tie means another week lost without much forward momentum which Obama is using to run out the clock.
But with an Obama win and make no mistake this was a decisive Obama win this means that a lot of that forward Romney movement will be lost in the next 5 days which will put Romney in a massive hole with only one real good chance of making the case next week remaining.
That's killer and even though debates rarely decide elections, this debate could've helped Obama just seal the deal.
posted by vuron at 8:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
An Obama tie means another week lost without much forward momentum which Obama is using to run out the clock.
But with an Obama win and make no mistake this was a decisive Obama win this means that a lot of that forward Romney movement will be lost in the next 5 days which will put Romney in a massive hole with only one real good chance of making the case next week remaining.
That's killer and even though debates rarely decide elections, this debate could've helped Obama just seal the deal.
posted by vuron at 8:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
John Kerry: In the next few days as the fact checking begins, you will see that this is the moment the Romney campaign began to unravel.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 8:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 8:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
Patton Oswalt: This isn't so bad for Romney. He can easily win this without single moms, immigrants, the middle class or all women.
posted by Phire at 8:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [30 favorites]
posted by Phire at 8:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [30 favorites]
I was excited for Cory Booker and you folks took that away from me! Jerks! I'm putting you all into binders!
posted by inigo2 at 8:15 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by inigo2 at 8:15 PM on October 16, 2012
Iowa is NOT unrepresentative of America. You are ignorant of the demographics of Iowa as it is today. I am an Iowan.
posted by Galadhwen at 8:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Galadhwen at 8:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
John Kerry: In the next few days as the fact checking begins, you will see that this is the moment the Romney campaign began to unravel.
Dear John Kerry: Please don't say anything. Let's all just be quiet right now.
posted by Miko at 8:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [22 favorites]
Dear John Kerry: Please don't say anything. Let's all just be quiet right now.
posted by Miko at 8:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [22 favorites]
Martha Raddetz is the biggest reason in these debates to make me still believe America is still great. MASSIVE FAN NOW.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 8:15 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 8:15 PM on October 16, 2012
Anericans
I just noticed this about five minutes ago. I shall choose to blame iOS.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 8:15 PM on October 16, 2012
I just noticed this about five minutes ago. I shall choose to blame iOS.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 8:15 PM on October 16, 2012
Hannity: "Romney prosecuted Obama on the last four years"
posted by King Bee at 8:15 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by King Bee at 8:15 PM on October 16, 2012
John Kerry: In the next few days as the fact checking begins, you will see that this is the moment the Romney campaign began to unravel.
I don't know that "unravel" is as correct as "continue unraveling after it briefly snagged on that one, stubborn, competent stitch that wouldn't budge without really giving it all you've got".
posted by jason_steakums at 8:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I don't know that "unravel" is as correct as "continue unraveling after it briefly snagged on that one, stubborn, competent stitch that wouldn't budge without really giving it all you've got".
posted by jason_steakums at 8:16 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah, someone was saying that on CNN, too, the "prosecuting him" but. I don't recognize any of the pundolts, so couldn't begin to tell you who it was.
posted by bardophile at 8:17 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by bardophile at 8:17 PM on October 16, 2012
I think that at this point the results are already clear and definitive: Women Moderators.
posted by benito.strauss at 8:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [30 favorites]
posted by benito.strauss at 8:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [30 favorites]
"Romney prosecuted Obama on several times used the phrase 'the last four years'"
posted by Miko at 8:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Miko at 8:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I am already a Binder-American, thankyouverymuch.
Which reminds me, I should go back to putting recipes in this binder. I'm such a stereotype.
posted by maryr at 8:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Which reminds me, I should go back to putting recipes in this binder. I'm such a stereotype.
posted by maryr at 8:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
The usual suspects on my facebook feed are VERY VERY QUIET right now. Waiting to be told what they think, I think.
posted by headnsouth at 8:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [14 favorites]
posted by headnsouth at 8:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [14 favorites]
Iowa is NOT unrepresentative of America. You are ignorant of the demographics of Iowa as it is today. I am an Iowan.
Is this some kind of joke I'm not getting? Iowa is 95% white. 95%.
posted by Justinian at 8:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Is this some kind of joke I'm not getting? Iowa is 95% white. 95%.
posted by Justinian at 8:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I think that at this point the results are already clear and definitive: Women Moderators.
The binders are working!
posted by ian1977 at 8:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
The binders are working!
posted by ian1977 at 8:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Maybe Mitt was going for the scrapbooking vote with the binder comment.
posted by ian1977 at 8:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 8:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by Skygazer at 8:19 PM on October 16, 2012
King Bee: Hannity: "Romney prosecuted Obama on the last four years."
Hannity: Up next - Straw into gold! Straw into gold!
posted by Pudhoho at 8:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Hannity: Up next - Straw into gold! Straw into gold!
posted by Pudhoho at 8:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Iowa is NOT unrepresentative of America. You are ignorant of the demographics of Iowa as it is today. I am an Iowan.
I think that Iowa's probably the best single-state representation of the midwest, for sure. It's situated and laid out in just such a way that it's got an excellent mix of everything the midwest has to offer. It doesn't represent much outside of the midwest, however.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:20 PM on October 16, 2012
I think that Iowa's probably the best single-state representation of the midwest, for sure. It's situated and laid out in just such a way that it's got an excellent mix of everything the midwest has to offer. It doesn't represent much outside of the midwest, however.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:20 PM on October 16, 2012
Complete Second Debate
From the comments:
UPVOTE IF ROMNEY WON
Reaperlastfm 26 minutes ago
UPVOTE IF OBAMA WON
Reaperlastfm 26 minutes ago 134
posted by Orange Pamplemousse at 8:20 PM on October 16, 2012
From the comments:
UPVOTE IF ROMNEY WON
Reaperlastfm 26 minutes ago
UPVOTE IF OBAMA WON
Reaperlastfm 26 minutes ago 134
posted by Orange Pamplemousse at 8:20 PM on October 16, 2012
Phire, maybe Republicans should just start embarking on a campaign to repeal the 14th, 15th, 19th, 23rd, 24th and 26th amendment.
No person shall have a vote unless they are a white, property owning male. Everyone else should get back to work on the plantation.
posted by vuron at 8:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
No person shall have a vote unless they are a white, property owning male. Everyone else should get back to work on the plantation.
posted by vuron at 8:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
H'okay, kids. It's been fun, but curfew is coming up, and if I don't get back into my binder I might spontaneously generate a pack of serial killers.
posted by cmyk at 8:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [26 favorites]
posted by cmyk at 8:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [26 favorites]
I think that at this point the results are already clear and definitive: Women Moderators.
Women, break free of your binders, and tell that governor to SIT DOWN.
posted by headnsouth at 8:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Women, break free of your binders, and tell that governor to SIT DOWN.
posted by headnsouth at 8:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
It sounds like Romney was flustered!
posted by Elementary Penguin at 8:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Elementary Penguin at 8:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
So what are the red staters saying?
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 8:21 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by AElfwine Evenstar at 8:21 PM on October 16, 2012
So what are the red staters saying?
I'll get back to you after work tomorrow.
Three more weeks... Three more weeks... Three more weeks...
posted by clearly at 8:23 PM on October 16, 2012
I'll get back to you after work tomorrow.
Three more weeks... Three more weeks... Three more weeks...
posted by clearly at 8:23 PM on October 16, 2012
The Haus of Gaga is already fiercely at work on the Binder Suit.
posted by Anything at 8:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [17 favorites]
posted by Anything at 8:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [17 favorites]
The usual suspects on my facebook feed are VERY VERY QUIET right now. Waiting to be told what they think, I think.
I'm in a wall debate of whether the Rose speech was actually Obama calling the Libya attack an "Act of Terror." Why do I even try?
posted by jmd82 at 8:24 PM on October 16, 2012
I'm in a wall debate of whether the Rose speech was actually Obama calling the Libya attack an "Act of Terror." Why do I even try?
posted by jmd82 at 8:24 PM on October 16, 2012
So what are the red staters saying?From my Facebook feed: Just because Obama said that we won't stand for acts of terror while talking about this doesn't mean he called this an act of terrorism.
(not kidding; wish I was)
posted by Flunkie at 8:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
So what are the red staters saying?
They're blaming the moderator for being a bitch (gendered language intentional, probably), a winning strategy for whiners and crybabies everywhere.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
They're blaming the moderator for being a bitch (gendered language intentional, probably), a winning strategy for whiners and crybabies everywhere.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Haha I'm a Binder-American, but not a dirty,gun-spewing Binder-American.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Phire, maybe Republicans should just start embarking on a campaign to repeal the 14th, 15th, 19th, 23rd, 24th and 26th amendment.
Don't laugh. The other day I had that thought - what if they decided women shouldn't even vote? - and I started Googling it. And sure enough, there are a whole bunch of places on the web where you can hang out and talk about why women should not have the vote. I'm not saying they're actually Republican candidates, but you know, I wish it felt more like sci-fi to me than it really does to even think about.
posted by Miko at 8:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Don't laugh. The other day I had that thought - what if they decided women shouldn't even vote? - and I started Googling it. And sure enough, there are a whole bunch of places on the web where you can hang out and talk about why women should not have the vote. I'm not saying they're actually Republican candidates, but you know, I wish it felt more like sci-fi to me than it really does to even think about.
posted by Miko at 8:26 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Transcript Truthers: Conservatives Deny Obama Called Libya Attack An "Act Of Terror"
posted by zombieflanders at 8:27 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by zombieflanders at 8:27 PM on October 16, 2012
I'm in a wall debate of whether the Rose speech was actually Obama calling the Libya attack an "Act of Terror." Why do I even try?
The tragedy for Mitt is that he repeated Obama's exact words: "act of terror." No wiggle room.
posted by gerryblog at 8:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
The tragedy for Mitt is that he repeated Obama's exact words: "act of terror." No wiggle room.
posted by gerryblog at 8:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
A few of my facebook friends are pretty happy with Romney. Saying that Obama just lied, lied, lied. Shrug.
posted by gaspode at 8:27 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by gaspode at 8:27 PM on October 16, 2012
They're blaming the moderator for being a bitch
And as we know, the side that whines about the moderator is the one that lost.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
And as we know, the side that whines about the moderator is the one that lost.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
I'm not saying they're actually Republican candidates
Definitely not, but those guys are not voting Democrat.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:27 PM on October 16, 2012
Definitely not, but those guys are not voting Democrat.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:27 PM on October 16, 2012
But seriously, my take-away from this debate is that I am so glad I never had to work for or along side with Romney. He seems like he would be such a condescending jerk to anyone with a binder vagina.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Just because Obama said that we won't stand for acts of terror while talking about this doesn't mean he called this an act of terrorism.
I was *just* coming here to wonder if that would be a line that Fox would trot out. "Acts of terror can be committed by non-terrorists! So Obama didn't REALLY call the attack an act of terrorism!"
posted by shortfuse at 8:28 PM on October 16, 2012
I was *just* coming here to wonder if that would be a line that Fox would trot out. "Acts of terror can be committed by non-terrorists! So Obama didn't REALLY call the attack an act of terrorism!"
posted by shortfuse at 8:28 PM on October 16, 2012
Either way, there was this observation from Mr. [George] Will on ABC, a compliment to both candidates and to the moderator, Candy Crowley of CNN: “I have seen every presidential debate in American history, since the four of Nixon and Kennedy in 1960. This was immeasurably the best.”
posted by Flashman at 8:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by Flashman at 8:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
"I sat across from people who were unemployed...of course, they weren't unemployed when they walked into my office, but hey, it's not like I was going to offer relocation expenses to China"
posted by jacy at 8:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by jacy at 8:28 PM on October 16, 2012 [9 favorites]
But seriously, my take-away from this debate is that I am so glad I never had to work for or along side with Romney. He seems like he would be such a condescending jerk to anyone with a binder vagina.
they are kind of... binderish, in a nerd vagina dentata way. I think we have a new euphemism! hoorah!
posted by winna at 8:30 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
they are kind of... binderish, in a nerd vagina dentata way. I think we have a new euphemism! hoorah!
posted by winna at 8:30 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
"I sat across from people who were unemployed...of course, they weren't unemployed when they walked into my office, but hey, it's not like I was going to offer relocation expenses to China"
Especially since they are dirty currency manipulators!
posted by ian1977 at 8:30 PM on October 16, 2012
Republicans are saying Candy Crowley was wrong, since Obama actually said "No act of terror will..." so he used the phrase but didn't literally label the act with that phrase. It's a pretty ridiculous parsing.
posted by delmoi at 8:30 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by delmoi at 8:30 PM on October 16, 2012
The talking heads seem to be focusing on:
1. Obama came out swinging. Was it too much? Too little?
2. The Libyra Rose Garden AHA moment.
I can't understand why they aren't talking about:
1. The fact that Romney was undeniably rude and condescending to both the moderator and Obama. "That wasn't a question. That was a statement"
2. Answering a question about automatic rifles with "women, before you have kids, get married"
3. WOMEN FROM BINDERS
4. Obama's pretty knockout closing arguments bringing out the 47%.
posted by cacofonie at 8:30 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
1. Obama came out swinging. Was it too much? Too little?
2. The Libyra Rose Garden AHA moment.
I can't understand why they aren't talking about:
1. The fact that Romney was undeniably rude and condescending to both the moderator and Obama. "That wasn't a question. That was a statement"
2. Answering a question about automatic rifles with "women, before you have kids, get married"
3. WOMEN FROM BINDERS
4. Obama's pretty knockout closing arguments bringing out the 47%.
posted by cacofonie at 8:30 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Lipstick Thespian: "Reince Preibus sounds like a medical problem to my ears. An intimate medical problem."
No, it's medical instructions. "reinse your Priebus three times daily. If conditions do not improve in five days, please contact your doctor."
posted by notsnot at 8:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
No, it's medical instructions. "reinse your Priebus three times daily. If conditions do not improve in five days, please contact your doctor."
posted by notsnot at 8:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
But seriously, my take-away from this debate is that I am so glad I never had to work for or along side with Romney. He seems like he would be such a condescending jerk to anyone with aSeems to me like he'd be a condescending jerk to most of the binder-challenged amongst us too.bindervagina.
posted by Flunkie at 8:31 PM on October 16, 2012
I'm in a wall debate of whether the Rose speech was actually Obama calling the Libya attack an "Act of Terror." Why do I even try?
The tragedy for Mitt is that he repeated Obama's exact words: "act of terror." No wiggle room.
Then they move on and wonder why Obama didn't call it an Act Of Terror in the following 2 weeks. A continuing shift in the phrasing.
posted by jmd82 at 8:32 PM on October 16, 2012
The tragedy for Mitt is that he repeated Obama's exact words: "act of terror." No wiggle room.
Then they move on and wonder why Obama didn't call it an Act Of Terror in the following 2 weeks. A continuing shift in the phrasing.
posted by jmd82 at 8:32 PM on October 16, 2012
wait for it
Geez, I didn't need to sleep EVER AGAIN.
posted by winna at 8:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Geez, I didn't need to sleep EVER AGAIN.
posted by winna at 8:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Talking heads can't give this completely to Obama because that would undermine their whole horserace narrative. Obama winning narrowly helps fuel viewership even though the election is likely going to slip away from Romney after his performance.
Hell he gave the Obama campaign at least 2-3 weeks worth of soundbites to generate attack ads in this debate alone.
posted by vuron at 8:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Hell he gave the Obama campaign at least 2-3 weeks worth of soundbites to generate attack ads in this debate alone.
posted by vuron at 8:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
The Whelk: "wait for it"
Holy crap, that's frightening. Don't do that. It's almost bindertime for me. How am I supposed to file myself to sleep with that image in my brain? Damn it. Now I need kittens.
posted by dejah420 at 8:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Holy crap, that's frightening. Don't do that. It's almost bindertime for me. How am I supposed to file myself to sleep with that image in my brain? Damn it. Now I need kittens.
posted by dejah420 at 8:35 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
After we agree on making sure all future moderators are women, can we also agree that all future debate seating should be Biden/Ryan style with candidates comfortably seated opposite each other with moderator in between? I HATE the randomly wandering around stage style. It was making me really uncomfortable and distracted. I almost tuned out early on because I couldn't handle the tension. I couldn't stop nervously wondering how much more 'in your face' they were going to get.
posted by marsha56 at 8:36 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by marsha56 at 8:36 PM on October 16, 2012
It was making me really uncomfortable and distracted.
It was like a classic case study in intimidating body language. I agree it looked sort of undignified.
posted by Miko at 8:37 PM on October 16, 2012
It was like a classic case study in intimidating body language. I agree it looked sort of undignified.
posted by Miko at 8:37 PM on October 16, 2012
wait for it
HOLY SHIT, I JUST SPAT OUT MY WINE.
posted by Theta States at 8:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
HOLY SHIT, I JUST SPAT OUT MY WINE.
posted by Theta States at 8:38 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
ok, need more wine now...
posted by Theta States at 8:38 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Theta States at 8:38 PM on October 16, 2012
HOLY SHIT, I JUST SPAT OUT MY WINE.
No, it was sucked out of your mouth and into the twin black holes where his eyes should be.
posted by ian1977 at 8:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Here's video of Romney being fact checked by the moderator, then the audience laughing and clapping about it.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Fantastic photo of Barack, Mitt, and Candy having a casual disagreement in NYT.
posted by maryr at 8:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by maryr at 8:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Here's video of Romney being fact checked by the moderator, then the audience laughing and clapping about it.
What's the ETA on Fox News complaining about the bias of the (rich, mostly white) audience? Or has it happened already?
posted by jason_steakums at 8:40 PM on October 16, 2012
What's the ETA on Fox News complaining about the bias of the (rich, mostly white) audience? Or has it happened already?
posted by jason_steakums at 8:40 PM on October 16, 2012
What a weird time for an emergency alert system test.
posted by feloniousmonk at 8:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by feloniousmonk at 8:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Guys, I have to go to bed so let's shut this down until tomorrow okay?
posted by triggerfinger at 8:42 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by triggerfinger at 8:42 PM on October 16, 2012
That story about the Binder stuff not even being accurate is quite good.
posted by Miko at 8:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by Miko at 8:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
via zombieflanders in the motherthread: Mind The Binder - Hey, I know about that binder! And guess what -- Mitt Romney was lying about it.
posted by cashman at 8:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [22 favorites]
What actually happened was that in 2002 -- prior to the election, not even knowing yet whether it would be a Republican or Democratic administration -- a bipartisan group of women in Massachusetts formed MassGAP to address the problem of few women in senior leadership positions in state government. There were more than 40 organizations involved with the Massachusetts Women's Political Caucus (also bipartisan) as the lead sponsor.Mitt's binder story appears to be yet another lie.
They did the research and put together the binder full of women qualified for all the different cabinet positions, agency heads, and authorities and commissions. They presented this binder to Governor Romney when he was elected.
I have written about this before, in various contexts; tonight I've checked with several people directly involved in the MassGAP effort who confirm that this history as I've just presented it is correct -- and that Romney's claim tonight, that he asked for such a study, is false.
posted by cashman at 8:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [22 favorites]
What's the skinny on the binder y'all?
posted by fleacircus at 8:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by fleacircus at 8:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Mitt's binder story appears to be yet another lie.
gasp
posted by elizardbits at 8:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
gasp
posted by elizardbits at 8:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
I think I'm going to dress up as a gigantic binder for Halloween.
posted by longdaysjourney at 8:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [22 favorites]
posted by longdaysjourney at 8:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [22 favorites]
Also
the percentage of senior-level appointed positions held by women actually declined throughout the Romney administration, from 30.0% prior to his taking office, to 29.7% in July 2004, to 27.6% near the end of his termposted by Miko at 8:46 PM on October 16, 2012
Heh. "Server is too busy" on the binder debunking story, definitely making the rounds.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:46 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by jason_steakums at 8:46 PM on October 16, 2012
people, keep on linking to that binder-not-true story and quoting from it, because I can't get it to load
posted by koeselitz at 8:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by koeselitz at 8:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Mitt Romney's appoinments of women did not continue apace in 2006. He must have misplaced his binders. (PDF)
Between January 2002 and July 2004, 14 (42 percent) of Governor Romney’s first 33 appointments to senior-level positions were women.
From 2004 to 2006, however, women made up just 25 percent of the 64 new appointments made by Governor Romney.
From January 2007, when Governor Patrick took office, to September 13, 2007, when data collection concluded, he had made 60 new appointments. Twenty-seven (45 percent) of these were women.
MassGAP’s early impact—with then-Governor Romney selecting women as 42 percent of his new appointments—was promising. However, the analysis in this report suggests that subsequent appointments did not reflect a continued commitment to the selection of women for high-level posts. The net result over the four points in time suggests that women’s gains between 2002 and 2006 were elusive: women at the end of the Romney administration did not hold a higher percentage of senior-level positions than when he took office (see Figure 2 above). What explains this fact?
First, even during the first time period (September 2002 through July 2004), the majority (61 percent) of new appoint- ments did not change the gender of the appointee. Our analysis shows that a woman was appointed to a position previously held by a woman in 24 percent of the cases, and Governor Romney appointed a man to a position already held by a man in 37 percent of cases.
Second, newly appointed women replaced men in 18 percent of the positions. However, in 21 percent of the cases, a man replaced a woman. It is this latter point that helps explain the lack of overall growth in women’s representation in top positions: men replaced more women than women replaced men.
Third, the pattern shown in 2004 was repeated in 2006, clearly indicating that gains are difficult to attain because women are appointed to replace women, men replace men, and when there is a change in sex, more men replace women than women replace men.
posted by oneirodynia at 8:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Between January 2002 and July 2004, 14 (42 percent) of Governor Romney’s first 33 appointments to senior-level positions were women.
From 2004 to 2006, however, women made up just 25 percent of the 64 new appointments made by Governor Romney.
From January 2007, when Governor Patrick took office, to September 13, 2007, when data collection concluded, he had made 60 new appointments. Twenty-seven (45 percent) of these were women.
MassGAP’s early impact—with then-Governor Romney selecting women as 42 percent of his new appointments—was promising. However, the analysis in this report suggests that subsequent appointments did not reflect a continued commitment to the selection of women for high-level posts. The net result over the four points in time suggests that women’s gains between 2002 and 2006 were elusive: women at the end of the Romney administration did not hold a higher percentage of senior-level positions than when he took office (see Figure 2 above). What explains this fact?
First, even during the first time period (September 2002 through July 2004), the majority (61 percent) of new appoint- ments did not change the gender of the appointee. Our analysis shows that a woman was appointed to a position previously held by a woman in 24 percent of the cases, and Governor Romney appointed a man to a position already held by a man in 37 percent of cases.
Second, newly appointed women replaced men in 18 percent of the positions. However, in 21 percent of the cases, a man replaced a woman. It is this latter point that helps explain the lack of overall growth in women’s representation in top positions: men replaced more women than women replaced men.
Third, the pattern shown in 2004 was repeated in 2006, clearly indicating that gains are difficult to attain because women are appointed to replace women, men replace men, and when there is a change in sex, more men replace women than women replace men.
posted by oneirodynia at 8:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
At this point if Romney said that we were not being invaded by aliens from another planet I'd just head for the store to buy all the tin foil I could carry so as to make a covering to keep out their evil mind rays.
posted by winna at 8:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by winna at 8:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Hillary: Where's my binder?
Barack: You're flying on it.
posted by Panjandrum at 8:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
Barack: You're flying on it.
posted by Panjandrum at 8:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
I can't read the binder story :(
posted by triggerfinger at 8:48 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by triggerfinger at 8:48 PM on October 16, 2012
It took forever to load for me, just give it some time.
posted by Miko at 8:49 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by Miko at 8:49 PM on October 16, 2012
Earlier this evening a friend posted a story about how some Willard campaigner blew her a kiss as she was driving by and it gave her the creeps.
Now we know what this was about. He wanted to put her in his binder.
posted by cmyk at 8:50 PM on October 16, 2012
Now we know what this was about. He wanted to put her in his binder.
posted by cmyk at 8:50 PM on October 16, 2012
Oh man I really hope the streets are filled with ambling Trapper Keepers on Halloween. Rainbow Unicorns for all Americans!
posted by jetlagaddict at 8:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by jetlagaddict at 8:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
The long and the short of the binder story is that Mitt didn't ask for the binders; he was presented them by a nonprofit group on the first day he took office.
posted by gerryblog at 8:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by gerryblog at 8:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Cashman has the first 3 paragraphs of the article up above, here's the rest: (page still nonresponsive, I think we killed it):
posted by dejah420 at 8:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
I will write more about this later, but for tonight let me just make a few quick additional points. First of all, according to MassGAP and MWPC, Romney did appoint 14 women out of his first 33 senior-level appointments, which is a reasonably impressive 42 percent. However, as I have reported before, those were almost all to head departments and agencies that he didn't care about -- and in some cases, that he quite specifically wanted to not really do anything. None of the senior positions Romney cared about -- budget, business development, etc. -- went to women.End article
Secondly, a UMass-Boston study found that the percentage of senior-level appointed positions held by women actually declined throughout the Romney administration, from 30.0% prior to his taking office, to 29.7% in July 2004, to 27.6% near the end of his term in November 2006. (It then began rapidly rising when Deval Patrick took office.)
Third, note that in Romney's story as he tells it, this man who had led and consulted for businesses for 25 years didn't know any qualified women, or know where to find any qualified women. So what does that say?
posted by dejah420 at 8:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
I demand more binder explanation. The internet fails me.
(AGAIN)
posted by purpleclover at 8:52 PM on October 16, 2012
(AGAIN)
posted by purpleclover at 8:52 PM on October 16, 2012
"Server is too busy" on the binder debunking story,
It will load eventually, but the story seems to be a work in progress. I am sure it will get much more detail soon.
posted by lampshade at 8:52 PM on October 16, 2012
It will load eventually, but the story seems to be a work in progress. I am sure it will get much more detail soon.
posted by lampshade at 8:52 PM on October 16, 2012
> he was presented them by a nonprofit group on the first day he took office.
You mean he took a handout?
posted by mrzarquon at 8:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
You mean he took a handout?
posted by mrzarquon at 8:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
Wasn't following the thread real time, but when Romney brought up Obama's pension during the immigration section it was literally the same as when you're arguing with someone and think of the perfect comeback a few hours after it's relevant. Except the comeback was no good.
Also, I loved the guy who asked the last question: "I think this one is a tough question," then proceeds to lob a softball that equated to "Talk about how you're misunderstood as a person. Any aspect you want, doesn't really matter to me."
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:53 PM on October 16, 2012
Also, I loved the guy who asked the last question: "I think this one is a tough question," then proceeds to lob a softball that equated to "Talk about how you're misunderstood as a person. Any aspect you want, doesn't really matter to me."
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:53 PM on October 16, 2012
> he was presented them by a nonprofit group on the first day he took office.
You mean he took a handout?
this pun is a thing of beauty and a joy forever.
posted by winna at 8:54 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
You mean he took a handout?
this pun is a thing of beauty and a joy forever.
posted by winna at 8:54 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
It still feels weird that Obama didn't hit the "Embassy security upgrade money was blocked by Congressional Republicans" thing, but then again he's been really canny about not getting bogged down in blaming people during these debates, and I bet that plays better.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:54 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by jason_steakums at 8:54 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Also, I loved the guy who asked the last question: "I think this one is a tough question," then proceeds to lob a softball that equated to "Talk about how you're misunderstood as a person. Any aspect you want, doesn't really matter to me."
You're going to love #ToughQuestionsFromBarry on Twitter.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
You're going to love #ToughQuestionsFromBarry on Twitter.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Also, I loved the guy who asked the last question: "I think this one is a tough question," then proceeds to lob a softball that equated to "Talk about how you're misunderstood as a person. Any aspect you want, doesn't really matter to me."
...which then led to Romney getting his ass kicked without the ability to respond.
posted by jaduncan at 8:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
...which then led to Romney getting his ass kicked without the ability to respond.
posted by jaduncan at 8:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Oh, by the way, Happy Ada Lovelace Day.
posted by homunculus at 8:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 8:56 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Also, I loved the guy who asked the last question: "I think this one is a tough question," then proceeds to lob a softball that equated to "Talk about how you're misunderstood as a person. Any aspect you want, doesn't really matter to me."
I liked that one, because you don't often get a "YOU provide the negative point about yourself" question.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:57 PM on October 16, 2012
I liked that one, because you don't often get a "YOU provide the negative point about yourself" question.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:57 PM on October 16, 2012
Best exchange between Obama and Romney all night.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 8:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by Senor Cardgage at 8:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
I liked that one, because you don't often get a "YOU provide the negative point about yourself" question.
I did think it was an interesting question, but it didn't strike me as difficult to answer.
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:58 PM on October 16, 2012
I did think it was an interesting question, but it didn't strike me as difficult to answer.
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:58 PM on October 16, 2012
I was waiting for the: "Where do you see yourself in 5 years time?" question.
Didn't happen.
posted by de at 8:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Didn't happen.
posted by de at 8:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
The part that really pisses me off:
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
First of all, according to MassGAP and MWPC, Romney did appoint 14 women out of his first 33 senior-level appointments, which is a reasonably impressive 42 percent. However, as I have reported before, those were almost all to head departments and agencies that he didn't care about -- and in some cases, that he quite specifically wanted to not really do anything. None of the senior positions Romney cared about -- budget, business development, etc. -- went to women.So he wanted the appearance of working with women, but he didn't want to actually work with them. His version of "Run along and play, but bring me a drink first."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
i wanted poffins
posted by elizardbits at 8:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 8:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
I liked that one, because you don't often get a "YOU provide the negative point about yourself" question.
I did think it was an interesting question, but it didn't strike me as difficult to answer.
It's the classic "What do you think your greatest weakness is?" job interview question. Anyone can turn that around and knock it out of the park, unless POTUS is also in on the interview.
posted by Think_Long at 9:00 PM on October 16, 2012
I did think it was an interesting question, but it didn't strike me as difficult to answer.
It's the classic "What do you think your greatest weakness is?" job interview question. Anyone can turn that around and knock it out of the park, unless POTUS is also in on the interview.
posted by Think_Long at 9:00 PM on October 16, 2012
Best exchange between Obama and Romney all night.
Obama 2012: I'm your huckleberry.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:00 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Obama 2012: I'm your huckleberry.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:00 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
You're going to love #ToughQuestionsFromBarry on Twitter.
"Why was I allowed to ask a question?"
"You see a turtle on its back. Do you give it a name? If so, what?"
"What's the difference between a duck?"
posted by winna at 9:01 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
"Why was I allowed to ask a question?"
"You see a turtle on its back. Do you give it a name? If so, what?"
"What's the difference between a duck?"
posted by winna at 9:01 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Rock, paper, or scissors? Please answer in form of saying "rock", "paper", or "scissors". Please also be specific. #ToughQuestionsFromBarry
posted by triggerfinger at 9:01 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by triggerfinger at 9:01 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
At the end, when the wives came onto the stage, Ann Romney looked is if she'd just discovered a deceased cockroach at the bottom of the glass after finishing her iced tea. That's gotta count for something.
posted by islander at 9:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by islander at 9:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
oh poffins are a thing in the world. They happen without our intervention, like magnets.
posted by winna at 9:02 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by winna at 9:02 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney going beserk during the debate.
posted by Bokmakierie at 9:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by Bokmakierie at 9:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Ann Romney's quietly glad people are seeing what she's had to put up with all these years.
posted by de at 9:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
posted by de at 9:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
CNN snap poll: Obama 46, Romney 39.
Sample was an even 33-33 Dem/GOP sample, which Wolf Blitzer mentions is ~8 points more Republican than the nation as a whole as averaged across prior surveys.
And he characterizes it as a draw.
whut
posted by Rhaomi at 9:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Sample was an even 33-33 Dem/GOP sample, which Wolf Blitzer mentions is ~8 points more Republican than the nation as a whole as averaged across prior surveys.
And he characterizes it as a draw.
whut
posted by Rhaomi at 9:03 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Via Twitter again: Dear Mitt: The VT shooter, the Columbine shooter, Dark Knight shooter, DC sniper... all from two parent families. Try again.
posted by Phire at 9:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [33 favorites]
posted by Phire at 9:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [33 favorites]
So if Obama gets a sizable bounce from this debate and democrats are pretty much a lock to retain control of the Senate is there a remote chance that we could get a major increase in the house or is Super PAC money going to keep that reliably full of tea party nutcases? I'm having a hard time finding anyone really willing to make any sort of predictions about likely house makeup at this point.
posted by vuron at 9:04 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by vuron at 9:04 PM on October 16, 2012
Anil Dash: Liberals want an America where we acknowledge losing a debate, get frustrated & come back trying. Conservatives today prefer denying a loss.
posted by Phire at 9:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [22 favorites]
posted by Phire at 9:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [22 favorites]
Romney going beserk during the debate.
Watch out, Mister President! There's a pointy shark on the horizon, and his mouth is open!
Sometimes that shark he looks right into ya. Right into your eyes. And, you know, the thing about a shark... he's got lifeless eyes. Black eyes. Like a doll's eyes. When he comes at ya, doesn't seem to be living... until he bites ya, and those black eyes roll over white and then... ah then you hear that terrible high-pitched screamin'. The ocean turns red, and despite all the poundin' and the hollerin', they all come in and they... rip you to pieces.
posted by winna at 9:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Watch out, Mister President! There's a pointy shark on the horizon, and his mouth is open!
Sometimes that shark he looks right into ya. Right into your eyes. And, you know, the thing about a shark... he's got lifeless eyes. Black eyes. Like a doll's eyes. When he comes at ya, doesn't seem to be living... until he bites ya, and those black eyes roll over white and then... ah then you hear that terrible high-pitched screamin'. The ocean turns red, and despite all the poundin' and the hollerin', they all come in and they... rip you to pieces.
posted by winna at 9:05 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
It still feels weird that Obama didn't hit the "Embassy security upgrade money was blocked by Congressional Republicans" thing
Part of the job of POTUS is getting Congress to do stuff. Bringing up Republicans blocking stuff = admitting to one of Obama's own greatest weaknesses.
posted by eustacescrubb at 9:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Part of the job of POTUS is getting Congress to do stuff. Bringing up Republicans blocking stuff = admitting to one of Obama's own greatest weaknesses.
posted by eustacescrubb at 9:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Real gems on Twitter.
Knock-knock. Who's there? Please be specific. #ToughQuestionsFromBarry
What's your perfect Sunday? #ToughQuestionsFromBarry
And AskMe shoutout: What's the name of that movie I'm thinking of? Please be specific. #ToughQuestionsFromBarry
posted by maryr at 9:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Knock-knock. Who's there? Please be specific. #ToughQuestionsFromBarry
What's your perfect Sunday? #ToughQuestionsFromBarry
And AskMe shoutout: What's the name of that movie I'm thinking of? Please be specific. #ToughQuestionsFromBarry
posted by maryr at 9:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Blitzer's been a hack for ages Rhaomi, he's going to push whatever the weakest consensus position possible even if all evidence points to that position being totally wrong.
posted by vuron at 9:06 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by vuron at 9:06 PM on October 16, 2012
these branded debate M&Ms do not mix well with rye.
posted by The Whelk at 9:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 9:06 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
these branded debate M&Ms do not mix well with rye.
You're eating them!?!? Those are supposed to be a keepsake! Jesus...
posted by Pudhoho at 9:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
You're eating them!?!? Those are supposed to be a keepsake! Jesus...
posted by Pudhoho at 9:09 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
@flynnrita149: #ToughQuestionsFromBarry Hey, I just met you, and this is crazy, but here's my number, so call me maybe?
posted by cacofonie at 9:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by cacofonie at 9:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Kara Smoke: Pretty sure 'binder full of women' was the first name Mark Zuckerberg thought of for Facebook.
I posted this in the other thread by accident.
posted by Phire at 9:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
I posted this in the other thread by accident.
posted by Phire at 9:10 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
I'm now kind of excited by the third debate coming up.
If there's one thing that's clear, it's that Romney is a very aggressive debater. And if there's another thing that's clear, it's that Romney grows very, very aggressive when he feels attacked or pressured. And if there's a third thing that's clear, it's that this debate has left Romney feeling attacked and pressured, and he now has a frikken' week to stew about it before his final shot at convincing the American people he'd be better than Obama.
Obama's superpower is making his competitors implode. I wouldn't bet on it, but I'm rather hopeful that's what we'll see next time.
posted by meese at 9:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
If there's one thing that's clear, it's that Romney is a very aggressive debater. And if there's another thing that's clear, it's that Romney grows very, very aggressive when he feels attacked or pressured. And if there's a third thing that's clear, it's that this debate has left Romney feeling attacked and pressured, and he now has a frikken' week to stew about it before his final shot at convincing the American people he'd be better than Obama.
Obama's superpower is making his competitors implode. I wouldn't bet on it, but I'm rather hopeful that's what we'll see next time.
posted by meese at 9:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [12 favorites]
AND we might get hockey back
I declare today a victory.
posted by saturday_morning at 9:13 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I declare today a victory.
posted by saturday_morning at 9:13 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm now kind of excited by the third debate coming up.
The rubber debate!
posted by saul wright at 9:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
The rubber debate!
posted by saul wright at 9:15 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
You're eating them!?!? Those are supposed to be a keepsake! Jesus...
my future clones can fight over the precious tin contained in the packaging.
posted by The Whelk at 9:15 PM on October 16, 2012
your future clones will be too busy working at WhelkWorld
posted by elizardbits at 9:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 9:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Foreign Policy is like the weakest possible area for Romney moving forward. His fumble of Libya which should've been an easy answer for him just showed how out of depth he is.
Sabre rattling against Iran would help him in a base only election if his base was large enough but it isn't. He's got to swing moderates over to his side and trying to sabre rattle and paint Obama as weak (when Obama has been ridiculously aggressive overall) just isn't going to get anywhere.
Obama will defuse Iran, Libya, Afghanistan issues and push back hard on all sorts of things. Expect liberal Osama name dropping.
I just don't think there is enough attack vectors for Romney to mount an effective assault on Obama in the context of foreign policy especially if Obama's able to right the ship in terms of polling over the next week.
posted by vuron at 9:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Sabre rattling against Iran would help him in a base only election if his base was large enough but it isn't. He's got to swing moderates over to his side and trying to sabre rattle and paint Obama as weak (when Obama has been ridiculously aggressive overall) just isn't going to get anywhere.
Obama will defuse Iran, Libya, Afghanistan issues and push back hard on all sorts of things. Expect liberal Osama name dropping.
I just don't think there is enough attack vectors for Romney to mount an effective assault on Obama in the context of foreign policy especially if Obama's able to right the ship in terms of polling over the next week.
posted by vuron at 9:19 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Obama was masterful on Libya. I never would have guessed it would have come out in his favor, let alone as Romney's biggest gaff. We'll see how it plays going forward. Taking back the lead on foreign policy going into the last debate is huge.
posted by Golden Eternity at 9:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Golden Eternity at 9:20 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
My takeaway is that Obama at his best beats Romney at his best. Obama had a good plan and executed it well. More importantly, he was agile in blocking Romney's transparent debate gimmicks ("your pension is much larger than mine") and also exploiting some good opportunities. All while remaining poised and presidential. It looks very good for the third debate.
posted by Bokmakierie at 9:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Bokmakierie at 9:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Daniel Larison on Romney: “Bad things are happening. I have no answers. Elect me.”
Romney has no foreign policy experience, and tonight everyone clearly saw that. He is superficially conversant with foreign policy issues, but hasn’t taken the time to learn enough about them to speak about them effectively or persuasively. Romney’s bad judgment and his lack of preparation on this front were on display, and it has probably become clear to a much wider audience that Romney lacks important qualifications for the Presidency.posted by Bokmakierie at 9:23 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
My takeaway is that Obama at his best beats Romney at his best. Obama had a good plan and executed it well.
I did not watch the first two debates (better things to do with my time included catching up on Battlestar Galactica and going to the airport), but my takeaway was that both planned to not even make an attempt to answer the question being asked and Romney's biggest failings were to not even bother making the connection obvious ("Hey, let me rehash my education spiel in response to an ask about assault weapons") and going so far as telling Crowley that the forward motion of the debate meant nothing to him.
posted by psoas at 9:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I did not watch the first two debates (better things to do with my time included catching up on Battlestar Galactica and going to the airport), but my takeaway was that both planned to not even make an attempt to answer the question being asked and Romney's biggest failings were to not even bother making the connection obvious ("Hey, let me rehash my education spiel in response to an ask about assault weapons") and going so far as telling Crowley that the forward motion of the debate meant nothing to him.
posted by psoas at 9:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Oh man.... MSNBC has a panel of "undecideds". Holy crap these people are dumb
posted by delmoi at 9:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by delmoi at 9:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ryan's Despicable Soup Kitchen Antics A Perfect Metaphor For GOP Ticket's Disrespect For The Poor
posted by homunculus at 9:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 9:31 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Bokmakierie: Romney going beserk during the debate.
I love that photo.
Ignore that nightmare in the background. Just another ugly refugee from the Me Generation, some doom-struck chump who couldn't handle the pressure.
posted by oneirodynia at 9:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
I love that photo.
Ignore that nightmare in the background. Just another ugly refugee from the Me Generation, some doom-struck chump who couldn't handle the pressure.
posted by oneirodynia at 9:33 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
MSNBC Undecided "I'm waiting for all the information to come in." Also says she likes Obama but thinks Romney as a business person might be better on the economy.
posted by delmoi at 9:34 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by delmoi at 9:34 PM on October 16, 2012
For a foreign policy debate, Romney's adventures abroad this summer have to be brought up. Have to! Some doofus shit, there.
posted by zangpo at 9:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by zangpo at 9:36 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Ok, now that I've had a chance to have my post debate chocolate and kitty snuggle; here are some of my takeaways.
I think Obama won on style and substance. I think Mitt imploded and for a lot of people, he became that asshole manager/ceo that everyone has had do deal with. I think it will lose him votes. I don't know that Obama will pick up those votes.
As a liberal, I cheer on the Dems, because they're about as close as I get, in national politics, to an agenda which meets mine on key issues. I like President Obama. I am disappointed by some of his decisions, and were there a such an animal as a Reform Democrat on the ticket, I would vote for them.
And while the rowdy part of me loved the fact that finally some smackdown happened, and Obama did something to wipe the smirk off the face of that overgrown frat rat, the rest of me is profoundly disturbed by the way the debates have been playing out.
"Playing" may be the operative work here. This is less about policies and debate and rational discussion of the differences between the two people who want access to the giant candy like button, than it is a reality show.
I think we can hardly be surprised that interpersonal civility is on a downturn, when behavior that should have been trained out by kindergarten is celebrated as "bold" and "assertive".
posted by dejah420 at 9:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
I think Obama won on style and substance. I think Mitt imploded and for a lot of people, he became that asshole manager/ceo that everyone has had do deal with. I think it will lose him votes. I don't know that Obama will pick up those votes.
As a liberal, I cheer on the Dems, because they're about as close as I get, in national politics, to an agenda which meets mine on key issues. I like President Obama. I am disappointed by some of his decisions, and were there a such an animal as a Reform Democrat on the ticket, I would vote for them.
And while the rowdy part of me loved the fact that finally some smackdown happened, and Obama did something to wipe the smirk off the face of that overgrown frat rat, the rest of me is profoundly disturbed by the way the debates have been playing out.
"Playing" may be the operative work here. This is less about policies and debate and rational discussion of the differences between the two people who want access to the giant candy like button, than it is a reality show.
I think we can hardly be surprised that interpersonal civility is on a downturn, when behavior that should have been trained out by kindergarten is celebrated as "bold" and "assertive".
posted by dejah420 at 9:43 PM on October 16, 2012 [13 favorites]
Oh man.... MSNBC has a panel of "undecideds". Holy crap these people are dumb
Don't you think the questions during the debate were pretty intelligent and on point, though?
I have to say I was impressed. Enough that I doubted how some of those people could possibly still be undecided.
And on that topic... Obama got a warm response from the audience more than once. Did Romney ever get any applause?
posted by torticat at 9:43 PM on October 16, 2012
Don't you think the questions during the debate were pretty intelligent and on point, though?
I have to say I was impressed. Enough that I doubted how some of those people could possibly still be undecided.
And on that topic... Obama got a warm response from the audience more than once. Did Romney ever get any applause?
posted by torticat at 9:43 PM on October 16, 2012
"Clearly all children need to be raised with both a mother and a father, otherwise they might end up becoming President of the United States." -- @KateMaruyama
posted by Phire at 9:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by Phire at 9:44 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
"The main takeaway tonight is that Mitt Romney doesn't listen when a woman says stop."
posted by tzikeh at 9:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by tzikeh at 9:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Mr. Obama Comes Back (NY Times Editorial)
posted by Golden Eternity at 9:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Golden Eternity at 9:45 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
Binders full of women.
As usual, Mitt is lying again. The binders were prepared by a bipartisan group of women before the election to promote women in office. They were to be presented to whoever won the election. So Mitt didn't ask for them. The binders were shoved in his face after he won the election.
posted by JackFlash at 9:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
As usual, Mitt is lying again. The binders were prepared by a bipartisan group of women before the election to promote women in office. They were to be presented to whoever won the election. So Mitt didn't ask for them. The binders were shoved in his face after he won the election.
posted by JackFlash at 9:47 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
Great debate for Obama. The one big shot he missed, IMHO, was during the immigration question. Romney said that we should be letting college graduates from other countries in to fill jobs here. A few questions back, he was bemoaning the fact that college graduates couldn't get jobs, and Obama could have nailed him on that flip-flop. But there's missed opportunities in every debate. Obama hit a lot of those pitches out of the park.
posted by azpenguin at 9:48 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by azpenguin at 9:48 PM on October 16, 2012
Obama got a warm response from the audience more than once. Did Romney ever get any applause?
Yeah he did. Just after the fact checking round of applause for Obama, Romney's response (too tired to link now) got a golf clap -- no doubt started by Anne and Matt Romney....
posted by NailsTheCat at 9:48 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah he did. Just after the fact checking round of applause for Obama, Romney's response (too tired to link now) got a golf clap -- no doubt started by Anne and Matt Romney....
posted by NailsTheCat at 9:48 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I think we can hardly be surprised that interpersonal civility is on a downturn
I always got the impression that pre-televised debates in history could be quite raucous, and it's only with the advent of television and 'image' that campaigns started to aggressively lock down any sort of personality and character in their candidates. I don't think Lincoln and Douglas were politely sharing a microphone.
posted by muddgirl at 9:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
I always got the impression that pre-televised debates in history could be quite raucous, and it's only with the advent of television and 'image' that campaigns started to aggressively lock down any sort of personality and character in their candidates. I don't think Lincoln and Douglas were politely sharing a microphone.
posted by muddgirl at 9:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Oh man.... MSNBC has a panel of "undecideds". Holy crap these people are dumb
Holy crap these people are ... our neighbors.
posted by cashman at 9:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Holy crap these people are ... our neighbors.
posted by cashman at 9:50 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Wil Wheaton has mirrored the blog post from The Phoenix with the fact-check on the binder story over on his Tumblr.
posted by Phire at 9:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Phire at 9:51 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"Go ahead Governor" is my favorite moment. The look on Romney's face, that moment of hesitation as he realizes he's stepping into the trap. Having Crowley speak up was just pure icing on that moment of sweetness.
posted by honestcoyote at 9:54 PM on October 16, 2012 [15 favorites]
posted by honestcoyote at 9:54 PM on October 16, 2012 [15 favorites]
Against the rules, Romney directly challenged Obama on three separate occasions.
However, I think Obama came out on top on all three of those exchanges. Certainly on the third one on Benghazi.
posted by Bokmakierie at 9:55 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
However, I think Obama came out on top on all three of those exchanges. Certainly on the third one on Benghazi.
posted by Bokmakierie at 9:55 PM on October 16, 2012 [2 favorites]
This may have been pointed out, but "binders of women" also sounds like "those who bind women."
So, I imagine that Romney did, in fact, issue a directive to bind women (metaphorically) while he was governor.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
So, I imagine that Romney did, in fact, issue a directive to bind women (metaphorically) while he was governor.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:59 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"I'm waiting for all the information to come in."
What the hell does that even mean? Come into where? His brain? His office? Does he have a 300 baud modem and he's waiting for it to download? Into his inbox from his right wing great uncle? Into existence with a *BAMF* like Nightcrawler?
Jesus H. Christ, man, the information has come in. Thanks a fucking lot for proving that Saturday Night Live sketch correct.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
What the hell does that even mean? Come into where? His brain? His office? Does he have a 300 baud modem and he's waiting for it to download? Into his inbox from his right wing great uncle? Into existence with a *BAMF* like Nightcrawler?
Jesus H. Christ, man, the information has come in. Thanks a fucking lot for proving that Saturday Night Live sketch correct.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:04 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
late to the partay.
had no idea this was the other debate thread.
posted by liza at 10:06 PM on October 16, 2012
had no idea this was the other debate thread.
posted by liza at 10:06 PM on October 16, 2012
Wow, so apparently there are people who seriously think that tonight's debate will improve Romney's poll numbers.
posted by wierdo at 10:11 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by wierdo at 10:11 PM on October 16, 2012
Crazy is as crazy does.
posted by fleacircus at 10:12 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by fleacircus at 10:12 PM on October 16, 2012
Clay Aiken (I know, I know): Romney must be confused tonight. Told to shut up by a woman and called out by a black man!
posted by Phire at 10:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Phire at 10:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
i would like to call for a runoff debate where romney pits his binder of women against obama's like decks of common pokemen and the media narrative just sort of goes along with it and then ryan's mom starts screaming at ryan and biden is throwing a fit because he wasn't invited and noone ever gets a birthday at burger king again after all this fuss
posted by passerby at 10:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by passerby at 10:14 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
CNN snap poll: Obama 46, Romney 39.Well, Wolf Blitzer has never exactly been a shining exemplar of hard-hitting journalism.
Sample was an even 33-33 Dem/GOP sample, which Wolf Blitzer mentions is ~8 points more Republican than the nation as a whole as averaged across prior surveys.
And he characterizes it as a draw.
whut
posted by Flunkie at 10:21 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
meese: "I'm now kind of excited by the third debate coming up. ... Obama's superpower is making his competitors implode. I wouldn't bet on it, but I'm rather hopeful that's what we'll see next time"
And the third debate (October 22, 2100 EST, fy (and my) i) is entirely about Foreign Policy! The single most memorable thing about this current debate, the one the audience clapped about when Romney got smacked down, and the thing that Obama should have in the fucking bag (cf. bin Laden, withdrawals, counterpoints with previous administration, lack of Romney experience, Romney attitudes toward Palestine/Israel, Romney familiarity with the process of moving companies offshore, etc.).
Romney is going to completely go off the deep end, especially if Obama keeps it up like he did tonight. It's going to be a helluva thing to watch.
If you're prone to bad hangovers, you might consider planning a sick day for the 23rd.
(Unfortunately, it's going to be hosted by Bob Schieffer, who is probably going to be a shitty moderator)
posted by barnacles at 10:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
And the third debate (October 22, 2100 EST, fy (and my) i) is entirely about Foreign Policy! The single most memorable thing about this current debate, the one the audience clapped about when Romney got smacked down, and the thing that Obama should have in the fucking bag (cf. bin Laden, withdrawals, counterpoints with previous administration, lack of Romney experience, Romney attitudes toward Palestine/Israel, Romney familiarity with the process of moving companies offshore, etc.).
Romney is going to completely go off the deep end, especially if Obama keeps it up like he did tonight. It's going to be a helluva thing to watch.
If you're prone to bad hangovers, you might consider planning a sick day for the 23rd.
(Unfortunately, it's going to be hosted by Bob Schieffer, who is probably going to be a shitty moderator)
posted by barnacles at 10:24 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
here's the full debate for anyone who didn't see it all (me)
btw, this kid jeremy needs a job so he can buy a suit that fits. #teamjeremy
posted by ninjew at 10:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
btw, this kid jeremy needs a job so he can buy a suit that fits. #teamjeremy
posted by ninjew at 10:25 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Last link for the night, and then I'm gonna stop spamming go to sleep, honest - Charlie Pierce knocks it out of the park again:
To me, this was a revelatory, epochal moment. It was a look at the real Willard Romney, the Bain cutthroat who could get rich ruining lives and not lose a moment's sleep. But those people are merely the anonymous Help. The guy he was speaking to on Tuesday night is a man of considerable international influence. Outside of street protestors, and that Iraqi guy who threw a shoe at George W. Bush, I have never seen a more lucid example of manifest public disrespect for a sitting president than the hair-curling contempt with which Romney invested those words. (I've certainly never seen one from another candidate.) He's lucky Barack Obama prizes cool over everything else. LBJ would have taken out his heart with a pair of salad tongs and Harry Truman would have bitten off his nose.posted by Phire at 10:29 PM on October 16, 2012 [23 favorites]
...
Leave aside the stupid quibbling about whether calling something an "act of terror" is the same thing as calling it a "terrorist act," as if what we call something makes a damn bit of difference to the dead. That was a moment of authentic anger, the kind of thing we never have seen from this president before. It was just inches away from "Have you at long last no shame, governor?"
Not only did Romney look like a presumptuous, malinformed jackass, but the president looked like he filled out his entire office for the first time in a couple of weeks.
And the third debate (October 22, 2100 EST, fy (and my) i) is entirely about Foreign Policy!
Wasn't this one at least hypothetically meant to be foreign-policy centered? I swear as of a couple of weeks ago it was meant to be, but the questions themselves even seemed to lean pretty domestic, even without both candidates swinging back that way at every opportunity.
posted by passerby at 10:31 PM on October 16, 2012
Wasn't this one at least hypothetically meant to be foreign-policy centered? I swear as of a couple of weeks ago it was meant to be, but the questions themselves even seemed to lean pretty domestic, even without both candidates swinging back that way at every opportunity.
posted by passerby at 10:31 PM on October 16, 2012
LBJ would have taken out his heart with a pair of salad tongs
I would LOVE to see LBJ on the modern campaign trail.
Wasn't this one at least hypothetically meant to be foreign-policy centered?
I thought so too, I remember a few comments from around the webs last time along the lines of "well, Obama just blew his chance to talk domestic policy".
posted by jason_steakums at 10:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
I would LOVE to see LBJ on the modern campaign trail.
Wasn't this one at least hypothetically meant to be foreign-policy centered?
I thought so too, I remember a few comments from around the webs last time along the lines of "well, Obama just blew his chance to talk domestic policy".
posted by jason_steakums at 10:34 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
About the bird thing. There's lots of down-time on the campaign trail. Someone introduced Mitt Romney to Angry Birds. Mitt played until he got to the round with the boomerang bird.
Mitt never got past that round, though not for lack of trying. After a couple of days filled with increasingly strong quasi-swear-words, he gave the phone to an aide, instructed him to destroy the phone with a hammer and return with the broken phone for his inspection (along with a new phone sans AB.)
On day one of a Mitt Romney's presidency, all of the gosh-darned mother-fudging birds in the world are going to pay for that chicken-loving boomerang bird's insolence!
posted by double block and bleed at 10:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
Mitt never got past that round, though not for lack of trying. After a couple of days filled with increasingly strong quasi-swear-words, he gave the phone to an aide, instructed him to destroy the phone with a hammer and return with the broken phone for his inspection (along with a new phone sans AB.)
On day one of a Mitt Romney's presidency, all of the gosh-darned mother-fudging birds in the world are going to pay for that chicken-loving boomerang bird's insolence!
posted by double block and bleed at 10:39 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
According to this site, this debate was described as, "Town meeting format including foreign and domestic policy."
posted by taz at 10:40 PM on October 16, 2012
posted by taz at 10:40 PM on October 16, 2012
I think we can hardly be surprised that interpersonal civility is on a downturn
Members of the House and the Senate used to beat one another with both fists and walking sticks right in the middle of The Capitol. I hardly think two men showing frustration or anger during an extremely charged exchange measures up.
posted by tzikeh at 10:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Members of the House and the Senate used to beat one another with both fists and walking sticks right in the middle of The Capitol. I hardly think two men showing frustration or anger during an extremely charged exchange measures up.
posted by tzikeh at 10:41 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Geraldo Tweets At Obama: ‘Congrats Mr. President, Balls Are A Beautiful Thing’
posted by homunculus at 10:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 10:52 PM on October 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Phrasing.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 11:02 PM on October 16, 2012 [5 favorites]
>>Usually via local property taxes, through the state government. Federal taxes won't make a big impact, actually.
>It's hard to find the actual numbers, but federal funding isn't nothing. There's support grants, and transportation money, and food money, etc.
It looks like in California (just to give one specific example where the numbers were easiest to find) the percentage of federal funds ranges from 10%-14% of the state's total K-12 funding. See p. 133 here. FYI in CA state funding was 57%-59%.
So federal education funding is a small-ish but significant amount. And it's worth keeping in mind that the federal and state funding tends to help equalize the funding in all schools--it's particularly important in poor and underfunded school districts, making sure that they at least have a minimum baseline of funding.
posted by flug at 11:04 PM on October 16, 2012
>It's hard to find the actual numbers, but federal funding isn't nothing. There's support grants, and transportation money, and food money, etc.
It looks like in California (just to give one specific example where the numbers were easiest to find) the percentage of federal funds ranges from 10%-14% of the state's total K-12 funding. See p. 133 here. FYI in CA state funding was 57%-59%.
So federal education funding is a small-ish but significant amount. And it's worth keeping in mind that the federal and state funding tends to help equalize the funding in all schools--it's particularly important in poor and underfunded school districts, making sure that they at least have a minimum baseline of funding.
posted by flug at 11:04 PM on October 16, 2012
Romney on pay equality:
posted by 0xFCAF at 11:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
We’re going to have to have employers in the new economy, in the economy I’m going to bring to play, that are going to be so anxious to get good workers they’re going to be anxious to hire women.Who says women don't find desperation attractive (in an employer)?
posted by 0xFCAF at 11:11 PM on October 16, 2012 [8 favorites]
"Members of the House and the Senate used to beat one another with both fists and walking sticks right in the middle of The Capitol. I hardly think two men showing frustration or anger during an extremely charged exchange measures up."
At the same time, it was considered deeply undignified to actually campaign for president.
posted by klangklangston at 11:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
At the same time, it was considered deeply undignified to actually campaign for president.
posted by klangklangston at 11:18 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
I think this will end up being the 2008 Mccain Zombie pic of this election.
posted by billyfleetwood at 11:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by billyfleetwood at 11:27 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Profact: Each candidate has a stick boy who carries their walking stick to the side of the stage. The stick boy will then hand it off to a sticksman after 1 minute has passed without violence. This sticksman will in turn hand the walking stick to the candidate should the opponent become unable to carry on the fight. This has all been kept as off-stage as possible since Teddy Roosevelt drove his opponent into the brush for sport and then slew him with stick.
posted by passerby at 11:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by passerby at 11:40 PM on October 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
passerby I love where youre going with this, but perhaps we could expand on it, like so...
Basically, there's three grabbers, three taggers, five twig runners, and a player at Candidate. Center tagger lights a pine cone and chucks it over the basket and the Candidate tries to hit the cedar stick off the cross rock. Then the twig runners dash back and forth until the pine cone burns out and the moderator calls hotbox. Finally, you count up however many score-downs it adds up to and divide that by nine.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 11:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
Basically, there's three grabbers, three taggers, five twig runners, and a player at Candidate. Center tagger lights a pine cone and chucks it over the basket and the Candidate tries to hit the cedar stick off the cross rock. Then the twig runners dash back and forth until the pine cone burns out and the moderator calls hotbox. Finally, you count up however many score-downs it adds up to and divide that by nine.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 11:42 PM on October 16, 2012 [7 favorites]
We’re going to have to have employers in the new economy, in the economy I’m going to bring to play, that are going to be so anxious to get good workers they’re going to be anxious to hire women.
*Files in the "Inelegantly Stated" binder.*
posted by taz at 11:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
*Files in the "Inelegantly Stated" binder.*
posted by taz at 11:46 PM on October 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
I don't think it's even "inelegantly stated". The *text* of his "binder full of women" speech is that women are not qualified for high level jobs and they want things like time to spend with their families, which would normally rule them out, but he hired some anyway when he was governor. That was the text.
posted by chrchr at 11:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by chrchr at 11:57 PM on October 16, 2012 [6 favorites]
Gotta love the internet's timely fact checking. Here's Mitt on the coal plant that kills.
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 12:06 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 12:06 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
I don't think it's even "inelegantly stated".
No, me neither. Romney called his 47% remark "inelegantly stated," so I'm putting the "employers so desperate that they will even hire women" comment in the same file.
posted by taz at 12:24 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
No, me neither. Romney called his 47% remark "inelegantly stated," so I'm putting the "employers so desperate that they will even hire women" comment in the same file.
posted by taz at 12:24 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
It goes in with the forthcoming "I'm sorry I inelegantly called you people 'illegals' three times in one debate, actually I love to eat Hispanic food and tip well at Taco Bell" apology to his binder full of Latino voters.
Well, I say binder. He has a list on a piece of paper at this point.
posted by jaduncan at 12:36 AM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
Well, I say binder. He has a list on a piece of paper at this point.
posted by jaduncan at 12:36 AM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
Alright, so was reasonably tense through the debate like it was a semis for a sport and team that I support or something. All Nate Silver's baseball heritage/ influence I suppose. Now that the suspense is off, at least temporarily, I'm chillin' with this English-Hindi portmanteau tribute to a realm named for a man, hat and a tan, as the song suggests. My flavour of Americana for the moment. You can thank me later, Metafilter!
posted by the cydonian at 12:36 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by the cydonian at 12:36 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Also fun: the "pathway to residency" rather than citizenship AKA "you can continue to work for us, but don't expect the vote or equal treatment there."
I'm not even Hispanic and it made me want to burn things.
posted by jaduncan at 12:40 AM on October 17, 2012 [7 favorites]
I'm not even Hispanic and it made me want to burn things.
posted by jaduncan at 12:40 AM on October 17, 2012 [7 favorites]
just now watching the debate, so a few thoughts:
just figured out who Romney reminds me of
Obama seems to have listened last time when everyone was saying he did not call out romney's lies. good.
Romney does not answer a single question or rebuttal with an actual answer. only anecdotes or "I know what it takes". When you hold a position with as much authority and responsibility as our highest office, repeating slogans won't actually accomplish anything.
a president should never seem whiny, stuttering, or constantly seeming angered or surprised by a tough conversation. the actual sitting president, on the other hand, was a model of patience and composure.
he really really said "The Arabs". like, why not go full racist and say A-RABS.
I'm glad the "binders" thing is a thing now, but yeah what's important is the condescension that came with that rambling answer. he was essentially making the point that he had to go out of his way to find hire-able women, and then had to accomodate them so they could be home in time to make dinner.
That gun question, what in all the hells happened there. I mean Romney is a champ at missing the point, but what was he even talking about with the babies and single parents
how in the world has Obamacare been a deterrent in hiring people? what the what? first of all, it's barely even been put into place yet. second of all, health care costs ARE strangling small business right now. something the ACA was designed to help alleviate:
Overall, the evidence simply does not support critics’ arguments that the ACA will burden employers and undermine employer-sponsored health insurance. On the contrary, except for a cost increase to mid-size employers due largely to enrollment increases, the ACA benefits rather than burdens small employers who want to provide health insurance, leaves the overall costs of employer-sponsored health insurance largely unchanged, and offers the potential, through cost containment, of slowing the growth in health care costs, benefiting private along with public purchasers of health insurance.
Obama related to his audience and answered questions specifically. Romney went full-on JOBS ECONOMY WOMEN ARE GREAT I EVEN HIRED SOME for like every answer. i don't even get it
posted by ninjew at 12:50 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
just figured out who Romney reminds me of
Obama seems to have listened last time when everyone was saying he did not call out romney's lies. good.
Romney does not answer a single question or rebuttal with an actual answer. only anecdotes or "I know what it takes". When you hold a position with as much authority and responsibility as our highest office, repeating slogans won't actually accomplish anything.
a president should never seem whiny, stuttering, or constantly seeming angered or surprised by a tough conversation. the actual sitting president, on the other hand, was a model of patience and composure.
he really really said "The Arabs". like, why not go full racist and say A-RABS.
I'm glad the "binders" thing is a thing now, but yeah what's important is the condescension that came with that rambling answer. he was essentially making the point that he had to go out of his way to find hire-able women, and then had to accomodate them so they could be home in time to make dinner.
That gun question, what in all the hells happened there. I mean Romney is a champ at missing the point, but what was he even talking about with the babies and single parents
how in the world has Obamacare been a deterrent in hiring people? what the what? first of all, it's barely even been put into place yet. second of all, health care costs ARE strangling small business right now. something the ACA was designed to help alleviate:
Overall, the evidence simply does not support critics’ arguments that the ACA will burden employers and undermine employer-sponsored health insurance. On the contrary, except for a cost increase to mid-size employers due largely to enrollment increases, the ACA benefits rather than burdens small employers who want to provide health insurance, leaves the overall costs of employer-sponsored health insurance largely unchanged, and offers the potential, through cost containment, of slowing the growth in health care costs, benefiting private along with public purchasers of health insurance.
Obama related to his audience and answered questions specifically. Romney went full-on JOBS ECONOMY WOMEN ARE GREAT I EVEN HIRED SOME for like every answer. i don't even get it
posted by ninjew at 12:50 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
> That gun question, what in all the hells happened there. I mean Romney is a champ at missing the point, but what was he even talking about with the babies and single parents
Children without both a mother and a father grow to be mass murderers. You've not noticed that trend?
Heaven help children from same sex parenting arrangements.
posted by de at 1:31 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Children without both a mother and a father grow to be mass murderers. You've not noticed that trend?
Heaven help children from same sex parenting arrangements.
posted by de at 1:31 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Marriage is between one man and a binder full of women.
posted by dirigibleman at 1:52 AM on October 17, 2012 [12 favorites]
posted by dirigibleman at 1:52 AM on October 17, 2012 [12 favorites]
That gun question, what in all the hells happened there. I mean Romney is a champ at missing the point, but what was he even talking about with the babies and single parents
I guess it's not widely publicized, but when I gave birth as a single mother, my state-issued assault rifle showed up right around when the birth certificate did. When my daughter hits puberty, she gets to learn about misogyny and rape culture--I assume that the weaponry is meant to come in handy at that point. Right? Is that...is that not how it works?
posted by MeghanC at 1:55 AM on October 17, 2012 [10 favorites]
I guess it's not widely publicized, but when I gave birth as a single mother, my state-issued assault rifle showed up right around when the birth certificate did. When my daughter hits puberty, she gets to learn about misogyny and rape culture--I assume that the weaponry is meant to come in handy at that point. Right? Is that...is that not how it works?
posted by MeghanC at 1:55 AM on October 17, 2012 [10 favorites]
ersatz: "Wow. It's 4.45 in the morning. And I am so glad I stayed up all night to watch this. It was fucking awesome.
3.45, no?
posted by ersatz"
I'm not in England at the moment. And yes, I am now posting on MetaFilter, 5 hours later. I am hardcore for Obama.
posted by iamkimiam at 2:20 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
3.45, no?
posted by ersatz"
I'm not in England at the moment. And yes, I am now posting on MetaFilter, 5 hours later. I am hardcore for Obama.
posted by iamkimiam at 2:20 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
The Romneys really need to cease and desist.
What are they channelling?
posted by de at 2:35 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
What are they channelling?
posted by de at 2:35 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Charlie Pierce knocks it out of the park again:You know I was concerned that Obama getting angry would lose him a lot of votes, but even I have come round to the fuck-that-noise position.
That disrespectful fuck Romney deserved the slap he gave him and those
"Illegals" Really? you fucking vile little man.
posted by fullerine at 3:10 AM on October 17, 2012 [8 favorites]
The scary part about that "binders full of women" photo is that I have always believed that when I did the angry lip muscle clenching it was totally invisible to my interlocutor. Whereas clearly I look like Gritt Graghmney.
posted by running order squabble fest at 3:10 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by running order squabble fest at 3:10 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
I was waiting for the: "Where do you see yourself in 5 years time?" question.
Didn't happen.
posted by de at 8:59 PM on October 16 [3 favorites +] [!]
PRESIDENT OBAMA: "Well I've been the First Husband for years now, but it always feels great to say so officially."
ROMNEY: "Now, you see, the great thing about THIS flat-screen television is that for an additional 20 dollars we can have it wall-mounted for you in your own home!!!"
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 3:23 AM on October 17, 2012 [14 favorites]
Didn't happen.
posted by de at 8:59 PM on October 16 [3 favorites +] [!]
PRESIDENT OBAMA: "Well I've been the First Husband for years now, but it always feels great to say so officially."
ROMNEY: "Now, you see, the great thing about THIS flat-screen television is that for an additional 20 dollars we can have it wall-mounted for you in your own home!!!"
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 3:23 AM on October 17, 2012 [14 favorites]
I have only just watched that clip of the coal plant that kills. Is this the same PG&E that is the main villain of the Erin Brockovich story?
posted by bardophile at 3:46 AM on October 17, 2012
posted by bardophile at 3:46 AM on October 17, 2012
Mother Jones
David Corn on Second Debate, MSNBC
Obama Strikes Back
Weekly Standard
Obama: ‘We’ve Gone Through a Tough Four Years’
Not A Game Changer
Democrats Loved Crowley
Three Polls Point To A Draw
CSMonitor
Round 2: President Obama turns up the heat in combative town-hall debate
The Economist
Lexington: An Aggressive Rematch
posted by the man of twists and turns at 4:17 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
David Corn on Second Debate, MSNBC
Obama Strikes Back
Weekly Standard
Obama: ‘We’ve Gone Through a Tough Four Years’
Not A Game Changer
Democrats Loved Crowley
Three Polls Point To A Draw
CSMonitor
Round 2: President Obama turns up the heat in combative town-hall debate
The Economist
Lexington: An Aggressive Rematch
posted by the man of twists and turns at 4:17 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Brazen lies fact-checked on stage and still the man rolls on.
There's no clearer indication of a bright-line demarcation in thought processes among American voters.
Authority vs. Evidence. Is it true because they say it, or do they only say it because it is true.
I feel there is a tipping point in American society, and I fear it is going to tear the country apart.
And the only real problem with that is the Republican half would within a decade turn into a quasi-religious state comparable in a broad sense to the middle-east style of governance with a similar record on human rights -- only with more prisons, a vast and technologically sophisticated standing army, and countless nuclear weapons.
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:33 AM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
There's no clearer indication of a bright-line demarcation in thought processes among American voters.
Authority vs. Evidence. Is it true because they say it, or do they only say it because it is true.
I feel there is a tipping point in American society, and I fear it is going to tear the country apart.
And the only real problem with that is the Republican half would within a decade turn into a quasi-religious state comparable in a broad sense to the middle-east style of governance with a similar record on human rights -- only with more prisons, a vast and technologically sophisticated standing army, and countless nuclear weapons.
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:33 AM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
If the Weekly Standard is trying to call it a draw it was a fucking massacre.
posted by howfar at 4:56 AM on October 17, 2012 [11 favorites]
posted by howfar at 4:56 AM on October 17, 2012 [11 favorites]
2029 comments??? Something has touched a nerve.
EDIT: 2030 comments?????
posted by EnterTheStory at 4:58 AM on October 17, 2012
EDIT: 2030 comments?????
posted by EnterTheStory at 4:58 AM on October 17, 2012
2029 comments??? Something has touched a nerve.
Ahem. You might want to look over here...
Be sitting down first.
posted by howfar at 5:01 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ahem. You might want to look over here...
Be sitting down first.
posted by howfar at 5:01 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Mod note: Please don't use the edit function to add an update to your comment. Check out the brief guidelines on the edit page itself, or look at the recent Metatalk conversations about how to use the edit feature. Thanks.
posted by taz (staff) at 5:04 AM on October 17, 2012
posted by taz (staff) at 5:04 AM on October 17, 2012
I suppose it's a good sign that political threads get more comments. But good grief.
PS the word "EDIT" was a joke - it was in the original post.
posted by EnterTheStory at 5:05 AM on October 17, 2012
PS the word "EDIT" was a joke - it was in the original post.
posted by EnterTheStory at 5:05 AM on October 17, 2012
howfar, there are actually a couple calling it a win for Romney, but I'm looking for something a little more substantial than an assertion without explanation.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 5:09 AM on October 17, 2012
posted by the man of twists and turns at 5:09 AM on October 17, 2012
Any day I see the TRS-Romney unravel on national T.V. is a good day.
posted by angrycat at 5:23 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by angrycat at 5:23 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
That gun question, what in all the hells happened there. I mean Romney is a champ at missing the point, but what was he even talking about with the babies and single parents
Serious question: Was that intended to be a dogwhistle about inner city black people?
posted by Bokmakierie at 5:28 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
Serious question: Was that intended to be a dogwhistle about inner city black people?
posted by Bokmakierie at 5:28 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
I woke to the headline Obama, Romney Both Skew Facts in Contentious Second Debate
I can't wait for the Foreign Affairs debate. Last night Romney acted like he and China had been caught smooching under the bleachers but his cool friends were dissing China and so Romney had to drop her like a pancake AND make some cutting remarks about her kissing abilities.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:28 AM on October 17, 2012 [8 favorites]
WASHINGTON — In the rough-and-tumble of a town hall-style presidential debate, the facts took something of a beating Tuesday night.
Mitt Romney wrongly claimed that it took 14 days for President Barack Obama to brand the assault on the U.S. Consulate in Libya a terrorist act. Obama yet again claimed that ending the Afghanistan and Iraq wars makes money available to "rebuild America," even though it doesn't.
I can't wait for the Foreign Affairs debate. Last night Romney acted like he and China had been caught smooching under the bleachers but his cool friends were dissing China and so Romney had to drop her like a pancake AND make some cutting remarks about her kissing abilities.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:28 AM on October 17, 2012 [8 favorites]
I'm in a wall debate of whether the Rose speech was actually Obama calling the Libya attack an "Act of Terror." Why do I even try?
Republicans go off on the weirdest tangents sometimes. It seems like such an odd thing to get upset about.
posted by octothorpe at 5:29 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Republicans go off on the weirdest tangents sometimes. It seems like such an odd thing to get upset about.
posted by octothorpe at 5:29 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
There's a picture from the debate where Mitt looks livid.
posted by drezdn at 5:33 AM on October 17, 2012
posted by drezdn at 5:33 AM on October 17, 2012
Once again, circumstances kept me from watching the debate. But man, reading this thread was enough of an adrenaline roller coaster: I think I would've needed to self-medicate to an unhealthy degree if I'd also been watching in real time.
I'm so delighted by takeaways like "binders full of women" and the weird single moms/guns connection (bonus points for pulling this one with a president who was raised by a single mother!). I mean, I was hoping for a strong Obama performance, but it feels like I got that plus a unicorn pony of a complete Romney meltdown. Awesome.
posted by Superplin at 5:34 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm so delighted by takeaways like "binders full of women" and the weird single moms/guns connection (bonus points for pulling this one with a president who was raised by a single mother!). I mean, I was hoping for a strong Obama performance, but it feels like I got that plus a unicorn pony of a complete Romney meltdown. Awesome.
posted by Superplin at 5:34 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Yeah, just when the Chinese leadership are desperate for an international scapegoat to distract from domestic economic issues, Mittens jumps up and down, waving his hands wildly, "Pick mee! Pick meeeee! Ooo! Ooo!"
Just in time for Japan to surpass China as America's largest foreign creditor, and exports to China are on a steep upward trend, too. So, you know, timing, damn he's smooth.
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:43 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Just in time for Japan to surpass China as America's largest foreign creditor, and exports to China are on a steep upward trend, too. So, you know, timing, damn he's smooth.
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:43 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Superplin, if you can, watch a little of the debate at the end-- Romney sounds so tired and worn out he is actually croaky. I get the feeling that being on the losing end of an argument was not something he was prepared for and he fell apart like a cheap suit.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:44 AM on October 17, 2012
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:44 AM on October 17, 2012
"Go ahead Governor" is my favorite moment. The look on Romney's face, that moment of hesitation as he realizes he's stepping into the trap. Having Crowley speak up was just pure icing on that moment of sweetness.
Between that and Romney's droning on about Fast & Furious, it became superclear what Romney's problem is: he and is debate briefers have become absorbed by the right-wing media bubble and thinks that whatever axes are being ground on Fox News and WorldNetDaily are the "important" stories. He has no idea what goes on in the real world or what real people talk about... which is perfectly fine when you're shooting the breeze with your right wing buddies or mouthing off to your politically apathetic family, but when you confront people who actually know what they're talking about (eg, Obama and Crowley), you end up making an ass out of yourself.
posted by deanc at 5:57 AM on October 17, 2012 [18 favorites]
Between that and Romney's droning on about Fast & Furious, it became superclear what Romney's problem is: he and is debate briefers have become absorbed by the right-wing media bubble and thinks that whatever axes are being ground on Fox News and WorldNetDaily are the "important" stories. He has no idea what goes on in the real world or what real people talk about... which is perfectly fine when you're shooting the breeze with your right wing buddies or mouthing off to your politically apathetic family, but when you confront people who actually know what they're talking about (eg, Obama and Crowley), you end up making an ass out of yourself.
posted by deanc at 5:57 AM on October 17, 2012 [18 favorites]
NY Times: For the President, Punch, Punch, Another Punch
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:03 AM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
He waited all of 45 seconds to make clear he came not just ready for a fight but ready to pick one. [snip] He interrupted, he scolded, he filibustered, he shook his head.It was shocking and--I have to admit-- electrifying. It was the Obama we were begging for in the first debate and he definitely did not let us down. He was our proxy snoot-puncher, wiping Romney's self-satisfied grin right off his face.
He tried to talk right over Mr. Romney, who tried to talk over him back. The president who waited patiently for his turn last time around forced his way into Mr. Romney’s time this time. At one point, he squared off with Mr. Romney face to face, almost chest to chest, in the middle of the stage, as if they were roosters in a ring.
“What Governor Romney said just isn’t true.”
“Not true, Governor Romney, not true.”
“What you’re saying is just not true.”
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:03 AM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
> Brazen lies fact-checked on stage and still the man rolls on.
It's been happening for decades. Not the immediate fact-checking, but the lies to gain power for political and economic agendas. Romney's greedy, he wants to harvest the world. What Romney doesn't seem to realise (yet) is background communication between masses of people -- internationally -- is immediate and vast via new technology. The world is watching (Romney).
Not that many elections back we all waited on the 6pm news and communicated in smaller circles. It wasn't that easy to be more informed.
With the Internet there has never been a greater need for transparency. Romney relies heavily on people not keeping in touch for whatever reasons.
> Authority ... . Is it true because they say it ...
It's true because the alternative is threatening, too painful to hear, easier to resist. Some don't want to give up dreaming of car elevators. It gives them hope. Unsustainable? What's that?
> I feel there is a tipping point in American society, and I fear it is going to tear the country apart.
It's a process of slow change. Young people grow older and commence voting; older people grow older again and disassociate politically. Change is difficult. American society will survive change. Unlike (constitutional) politics, economics is global, and more and more politics is economic management. The US constitution matters very little to the rest of the world. It's not how the rest of the world thinks, nor what it necessarily desires. That's arrogance.
> And the only real problem with that is the Republican half would within a decade turn into a quasi-religious state comparable in a broad sense to the middle-east style of governance with a similar record on human rights -- only with more prisons, a vast and technologically sophisticated standing army, and countless nuclear weapons.
You have a right to bear arms (on home soil).
But the US Republican half doesn't have a decade left. It'll die a natural death. Countless nuclear weapons is inappropriate in an era of treaties for nuclear arms reduction. 'Quasi-religious state' says it all. Quasi is legacy.
Cheer up. It won't happen. Right wing extremes have no way of surviving. Romney's just not for this world.
posted by de at 6:07 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
It's been happening for decades. Not the immediate fact-checking, but the lies to gain power for political and economic agendas. Romney's greedy, he wants to harvest the world. What Romney doesn't seem to realise (yet) is background communication between masses of people -- internationally -- is immediate and vast via new technology. The world is watching (Romney).
Not that many elections back we all waited on the 6pm news and communicated in smaller circles. It wasn't that easy to be more informed.
With the Internet there has never been a greater need for transparency. Romney relies heavily on people not keeping in touch for whatever reasons.
> Authority ... . Is it true because they say it ...
It's true because the alternative is threatening, too painful to hear, easier to resist. Some don't want to give up dreaming of car elevators. It gives them hope. Unsustainable? What's that?
> I feel there is a tipping point in American society, and I fear it is going to tear the country apart.
It's a process of slow change. Young people grow older and commence voting; older people grow older again and disassociate politically. Change is difficult. American society will survive change. Unlike (constitutional) politics, economics is global, and more and more politics is economic management. The US constitution matters very little to the rest of the world. It's not how the rest of the world thinks, nor what it necessarily desires. That's arrogance.
> And the only real problem with that is the Republican half would within a decade turn into a quasi-religious state comparable in a broad sense to the middle-east style of governance with a similar record on human rights -- only with more prisons, a vast and technologically sophisticated standing army, and countless nuclear weapons.
You have a right to bear arms (on home soil).
But the US Republican half doesn't have a decade left. It'll die a natural death. Countless nuclear weapons is inappropriate in an era of treaties for nuclear arms reduction. 'Quasi-religious state' says it all. Quasi is legacy.
Cheer up. It won't happen. Right wing extremes have no way of surviving. Romney's just not for this world.
posted by de at 6:07 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
I wonder if Romney's people will declare that the third debate is off the table because Obama "broke the rules"? I guess we will know within a day or so whether they think it will make him look weaker to forgo the next debate or to get back in the ring and get pummeled. We know that Foreign Affairs is not his bailiwick and the President definitely has the home court advantage on that.
Phew. 3 -- count em -- 3 different sports analogies! I guess that is how last night is resonating with me.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:09 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Phew. 3 -- count em -- 3 different sports analogies! I guess that is how last night is resonating with me.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:09 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
it became superclear what Romney's problem is: he and is debate briefers have become absorbed by the right-wing media bubble
I think this is partially right. That's where Romney & co. were for all the GOP debates, and when he turned into Mr Moderate/almost to the left of the president, Obama was caught unprepared. This time, when Mitt got flustered, he retreated to the familiar of the GOP debates.
He needs to stay moderate to appeal to the undecideds, and Obama needs to hold him to the image he created during primaries.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:10 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
I think this is partially right. That's where Romney & co. were for all the GOP debates, and when he turned into Mr Moderate/almost to the left of the president, Obama was caught unprepared. This time, when Mitt got flustered, he retreated to the familiar of the GOP debates.
He needs to stay moderate to appeal to the undecideds, and Obama needs to hold him to the image he created during primaries.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:10 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
The thing that gets me about the "binders of women" thing?
The question was about equal pay for women. Not about whether women got hired or got flextime or any of that crap. I actually yelled at the screen - when Romney boasted about how he'd finally hired a couple women out of the binders -- "yeah, but how much did you PAY them, asshole?" Because that's what the fucking question was actually about.
I do not recommend yelling at a TV screen when you have been invited to a debate-watching event sponsored by a group of people whom you mostly do not know.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:12 AM on October 17, 2012 [31 favorites]
The question was about equal pay for women. Not about whether women got hired or got flextime or any of that crap. I actually yelled at the screen - when Romney boasted about how he'd finally hired a couple women out of the binders -- "yeah, but how much did you PAY them, asshole?" Because that's what the fucking question was actually about.
I do not recommend yelling at a TV screen when you have been invited to a debate-watching event sponsored by a group of people whom you mostly do not know.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:12 AM on October 17, 2012 [31 favorites]
RELEASE THE ....
BINDER FULL OF WOMEN.
posted by stormpooper at 6:18 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
BINDER FULL OF WOMEN.
posted by stormpooper at 6:18 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
The FOX spin is that the questions chosen were obvious pandering to women
Oh and about the full transcript-- don't get it from FOX. According to VampiricPie at Reddit they removed all of Romney's gun control response as an "audio gap"
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:20 AM on October 17, 2012 [14 favorites]
KELLY: And the questions! 11 questions asked in all, and some of which will certainly be discussed tomorrow. Topics that we haven’t heard at all in this campaign — equal pay for women, in fact there were a lot of women’s issues discussed…abortion, contraception, women’s pay as I mentioned. Some might argue it was obvious pandering to women because the female vote is so important in this election.Do you feel pandered to? Oh and I like how 50 % of the voters are "so important to the election." Gee-- ya think?
Oh and about the full transcript-- don't get it from FOX. According to VampiricPie at Reddit they removed all of Romney's gun control response as an "audio gap"
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:20 AM on October 17, 2012 [14 favorites]
whether the Rose speech was actually Obama calling the Libya attack an "Act of Terror." ... It seems like such an odd thing to get upset about.
I don't think they have a choice. Crowley's fact check happened to be perfectly timed to be as damaging to Romney as it could have possibly been.
I mean, look at it: we're in an election where (as usual) the question the candidates are posing is "what should we be scared of and who do we trust to protect us?" We're in the last stretch of the debate. Obama has just made a strong Commander-in-Chief statement about protecting Americans overseas. Romney has 30 seconds to come in and make one point that will undercut faith in Obama's leadership. He opens his mouth and -- bam -- the Voice of Authority tells the audience that the central fact he planned to rely on is bogus.
If it was just Obama saying Romney was wrong, that would have been fine. If it was during Romney's main two-minute statement so he had other arguments to shift to, or if it was part of a larger foreign policy discussion where he could circle back to the point later, he might have been OK. If it was during a back-and-forth about currency manipulation or something that no one understands anyway, fine. But this was exquisitely, exquisitely timed to damage Romney's presentation. It was like the ref sucker-punching a boxer during the last round of a fight; the ump pulling down the runner's pants when he tries to steal home. And it wasn't cheating -- he deserved it. She was right.
So yeah -- if you want Romney to win, your next step right now is to think up some reason that Crowley was wrong and Romney was right and try to make it stick. Partisanship is rough sometimes.
posted by jhc at 6:23 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
I don't think they have a choice. Crowley's fact check happened to be perfectly timed to be as damaging to Romney as it could have possibly been.
I mean, look at it: we're in an election where (as usual) the question the candidates are posing is "what should we be scared of and who do we trust to protect us?" We're in the last stretch of the debate. Obama has just made a strong Commander-in-Chief statement about protecting Americans overseas. Romney has 30 seconds to come in and make one point that will undercut faith in Obama's leadership. He opens his mouth and -- bam -- the Voice of Authority tells the audience that the central fact he planned to rely on is bogus.
If it was just Obama saying Romney was wrong, that would have been fine. If it was during Romney's main two-minute statement so he had other arguments to shift to, or if it was part of a larger foreign policy discussion where he could circle back to the point later, he might have been OK. If it was during a back-and-forth about currency manipulation or something that no one understands anyway, fine. But this was exquisitely, exquisitely timed to damage Romney's presentation. It was like the ref sucker-punching a boxer during the last round of a fight; the ump pulling down the runner's pants when he tries to steal home. And it wasn't cheating -- he deserved it. She was right.
So yeah -- if you want Romney to win, your next step right now is to think up some reason that Crowley was wrong and Romney was right and try to make it stick. Partisanship is rough sometimes.
posted by jhc at 6:23 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
Secret Life of Gravy: Superplin, if you can, watch a little of the debate at the end-- Romney sounds so tired and worn out he is actually croaky.
Wow, you weren't kidding. I watched the part about gun control. I just... what was that? Romney was so stuttery and floundery, clearly grabbing desperately for some "American family values" message. But since that answer didn't really have anything to do with the question, it involved a bunch of quantum leaps of illogic. He seemed exhausted.
And that closing statement by Obama was masterful. Not only did he deftly carry the 47% ball so kindly lobbed to him by self-foot-shooter Romney, he really connected with the public. He was speaking passionately and personally, leaving an excellent final impression.
posted by Superplin at 6:26 AM on October 17, 2012
Wow, you weren't kidding. I watched the part about gun control. I just... what was that? Romney was so stuttery and floundery, clearly grabbing desperately for some "American family values" message. But since that answer didn't really have anything to do with the question, it involved a bunch of quantum leaps of illogic. He seemed exhausted.
And that closing statement by Obama was masterful. Not only did he deftly carry the 47% ball so kindly lobbed to him by self-foot-shooter Romney, he really connected with the public. He was speaking passionately and personally, leaving an excellent final impression.
posted by Superplin at 6:26 AM on October 17, 2012
Man, check out this photo. Obama visibly loathes Romney -- won't even look at him.
posted by GrammarMoses at 6:28 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by GrammarMoses at 6:28 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Maybe it's the wrong tone for Obama given who he needs to appeal to at this stage, but I'd like Obama to play a little more primary-rhetoric-gotcha with Romney. When Romney gives some faltering and half-hearted explanation of a changing policy position, Obama should say something like:
"What Mr. Romney is drawing for you on his etch-a-sketch may look good this week. But if you put him into office, he'll just shake it up again--before he turns it over to his buddies on Wall Street."
When Romney tries to play upon his career as an investor to explain how he's going to make 2+2=2 million, Obama should point out that 'balance sheet tricks' and 'creative accounting' won't save the economy, and that America isn't a corporation that he can break up and sell to private interests (try as he might). Nor is it acceptable to 'bet the country' like one might 'bet the company,' expecting to just move on to the 'next deal' if it falls apart.
I could go on...to me, it seems like almost everything Romney offers to demonstrate his qualifications or positions invites this kind of rejoinder.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:34 AM on October 17, 2012 [17 favorites]
"What Mr. Romney is drawing for you on his etch-a-sketch may look good this week. But if you put him into office, he'll just shake it up again--before he turns it over to his buddies on Wall Street."
When Romney tries to play upon his career as an investor to explain how he's going to make 2+2=2 million, Obama should point out that 'balance sheet tricks' and 'creative accounting' won't save the economy, and that America isn't a corporation that he can break up and sell to private interests (try as he might). Nor is it acceptable to 'bet the country' like one might 'bet the company,' expecting to just move on to the 'next deal' if it falls apart.
I could go on...to me, it seems like almost everything Romney offers to demonstrate his qualifications or positions invites this kind of rejoinder.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:34 AM on October 17, 2012 [17 favorites]
So yeah -- if you want Romney to win, your next step right now is to think up some reason that Crowley was wrong and Romney was right and try to make it stick. Partisanship is rough sometimes.
One of my friends posted something about how moderators aren't supposed to do any fact-checking and that it should be left up to the debaters. So yeah.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 6:34 AM on October 17, 2012
One of my friends posted something about how moderators aren't supposed to do any fact-checking and that it should be left up to the debaters. So yeah.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 6:34 AM on October 17, 2012
I really hope Bob Shieffer brings a gong next week.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:36 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:36 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
Ross Douthat calls Crowley's fact-check "inappropriate"
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 6:37 AM on October 17, 2012
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 6:37 AM on October 17, 2012
Jpfed: that's from the paper that asked if they should report whether things are true or not, isn't it.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 6:39 AM on October 17, 2012
posted by the man of twists and turns at 6:39 AM on October 17, 2012
One of my friends posted something about how moderators aren't supposed to do any fact-checking
It was really more of an outright lie check.
posted by carter at 6:42 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
It was really more of an outright lie check.
posted by carter at 6:42 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
NYTimes Paul Krugman: Chicken Hawk Down: 'So, do we get to invoke Catch-22, and call him Mitt Binderminder? Especially because his story about seeking out women appears to be false?'
posted by the man of twists and turns at 6:43 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by the man of twists and turns at 6:43 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
KELLY: And the questions! 11 questions asked in all, and some of which will certainly be discussed tomorrow. Topics that we haven’t heard at all in this campaign — equal pay for women, in fact there were a lot of women’s issues discussed…abortion, contraception, women’s pay as I mentioned. Some might argue it was obvious pandering to women because the female vote is so important in this election.
I shouldn't even be surprised and disgusted because this comes from Fox. But we can stamp this shit out already? This is one of those moments that reveals how many people accept the idea that women aren't full, equal human beings, but distractions on the side or niche groups. We're half the fucking populace, and the policy you make affects us just as much as anyone, and the policy you make actually affects us in specific ways that have massive repercussions for career, earning power, health, family issues, even violence and education, as Obama noted. "Pandering?" No, I think it's more like finally getting around to stuff that's been of material if not primary importance to the majority of voters, but which has been irresponsibly ignored by politicians and the media in an effort to shunt it all to the side and get to the 'real' politics.
IF the political system can't center itself on these issues, it's useless. This was a domestic policy debate. Domestic policy includes health care, the economy and jobs, education, family planning. That's what domestic means - stuff we do here at home.
God, I went to bed all hopped up and I'm waking up all hopped up too.
posted by Miko at 6:44 AM on October 17, 2012 [37 favorites]
I shouldn't even be surprised and disgusted because this comes from Fox. But we can stamp this shit out already? This is one of those moments that reveals how many people accept the idea that women aren't full, equal human beings, but distractions on the side or niche groups. We're half the fucking populace, and the policy you make affects us just as much as anyone, and the policy you make actually affects us in specific ways that have massive repercussions for career, earning power, health, family issues, even violence and education, as Obama noted. "Pandering?" No, I think it's more like finally getting around to stuff that's been of material if not primary importance to the majority of voters, but which has been irresponsibly ignored by politicians and the media in an effort to shunt it all to the side and get to the 'real' politics.
IF the political system can't center itself on these issues, it's useless. This was a domestic policy debate. Domestic policy includes health care, the economy and jobs, education, family planning. That's what domestic means - stuff we do here at home.
God, I went to bed all hopped up and I'm waking up all hopped up too.
posted by Miko at 6:44 AM on October 17, 2012 [37 favorites]
Man, check out this photo. Obama visibly loathes Romney -- won't even look at him.
I don't think you can really extrapolate much from a split-second photo. I didn't see exactly that angle, and they sure weren't warm to each other, but this reflects an editor's choice of many available photos more than a characterization of the entire interaction. It also resembles the posture you take when someone is talking to you and you want to drop your head and aim your ear at them - like in a noisy room. The editor could have gone with any of these which create a different impression - that's just not the visual story they chose to tell.
posted by Miko at 6:49 AM on October 17, 2012 [12 favorites]
I don't think you can really extrapolate much from a split-second photo. I didn't see exactly that angle, and they sure weren't warm to each other, but this reflects an editor's choice of many available photos more than a characterization of the entire interaction. It also resembles the posture you take when someone is talking to you and you want to drop your head and aim your ear at them - like in a noisy room. The editor could have gone with any of these which create a different impression - that's just not the visual story they chose to tell.
posted by Miko at 6:49 AM on October 17, 2012 [12 favorites]
I know other people have slagged on the format in the past, but I think the Town Hall format is perhaps the best.. or at least the least worst. It's not as stiff as the lectern and there are eleemnts of surprise involved. Yeah, some of the TH members are plants undoubtedly, and some are just godawful dumb, but you can say the same about many moderators.
posted by edgeways at 6:54 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by edgeways at 6:54 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Man, check out this photo. Obama is visibly intrigued by the good ideas put forth by Romney.
posted by mazola at 6:54 AM on October 17, 2012 [12 favorites]
posted by mazola at 6:54 AM on October 17, 2012 [12 favorites]
Or he's seen a coin behind his left ear.
posted by de at 7:00 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by de at 7:00 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Obama is visibly intrigued by.....
Not only did he push back, he was really animated last night in body language and expressions. It was really refreshing to see.
posted by lampshade at 7:02 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Not only did he push back, he was really animated last night in body language and expressions. It was really refreshing to see.
posted by lampshade at 7:02 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
It's such a perfect word, binders. Yes, the Romneys of the world prefer their women bound, either literally or metaphorically. The images are swirling in my head, instead of barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, bind their feet like some Chinese not so long ago, that'll keep them in the kitchen for sure. But if it doesn't, maybe we can use assault rifles to make sure they don't have sex outside of marriage.
posted by mareli at 7:08 AM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by mareli at 7:08 AM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
IF the political system can't center itself on these issues, it's useless. This was a domestic policy debate. Domestic policy includes health care, the economy and jobs, education, family planning. That's what domestic means - stuff we do here at home.
Hear, hear. It was disturbing to hear a presidential candidate suggest that only women need flex time jobs, or that those positions are somehow a future goal in this economy. In 2009, 59 percent of working-age women in the United States were in the labor force. 73 percent of employed women worked on full-time jobs in 2010. The labor force participation rate--the percent of the population working or looking for work--for all mothers with children under age 18 was 70.6 percent in 2011.
These are not niche issues. These are, as Obama said, family issues. For American families, right now. I want these issues at the forefront. I deserve to know which candidates don't believe in my right to plan a family. In my right to health care. In my friends' right to marry their loved ones. I want to know who thinks women should be in the work place and in cabinet positions and in positions of authority. If I have the right to live in a country that is working against domestic abuse and sexual harassment, under a president who believes my gender shouldn't influence my paycheck. "Domestic" isn't niche. It isn't somehow inferior to the manly art of war-- it shouldn't be gendered at all. I may spend most of these threads sprouting off vaguely funny tidbits, but I am watching these polls, and I am reading policy positions, and I care deeply about this election because this stuff matters.
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:18 AM on October 17, 2012 [20 favorites]
Hear, hear. It was disturbing to hear a presidential candidate suggest that only women need flex time jobs, or that those positions are somehow a future goal in this economy. In 2009, 59 percent of working-age women in the United States were in the labor force. 73 percent of employed women worked on full-time jobs in 2010. The labor force participation rate--the percent of the population working or looking for work--for all mothers with children under age 18 was 70.6 percent in 2011.
These are not niche issues. These are, as Obama said, family issues. For American families, right now. I want these issues at the forefront. I deserve to know which candidates don't believe in my right to plan a family. In my right to health care. In my friends' right to marry their loved ones. I want to know who thinks women should be in the work place and in cabinet positions and in positions of authority. If I have the right to live in a country that is working against domestic abuse and sexual harassment, under a president who believes my gender shouldn't influence my paycheck. "Domestic" isn't niche. It isn't somehow inferior to the manly art of war-- it shouldn't be gendered at all. I may spend most of these threads sprouting off vaguely funny tidbits, but I am watching these polls, and I am reading policy positions, and I care deeply about this election because this stuff matters.
posted by jetlagaddict at 7:18 AM on October 17, 2012 [20 favorites]
bindersfullofwomen.com, brought to you by American Bridge 21st Century PAC. That was fast!
posted by hydrophonic at 7:19 AM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by hydrophonic at 7:19 AM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
A place of honor behind the governor (Mother Jones link on 70 pages of internal e-mails from the Romney campaign to VMI pushing them to cooperate)
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:27 AM on October 17, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:27 AM on October 17, 2012 [7 favorites]
Romney's just saying if girls want equal pay they should try 2 network better and be more qualified. It's cool tho because he hired some anyway showing leadership. Vote RR2012.
posted by fleacircus at 7:32 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by fleacircus at 7:32 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
On that gun control weirdness, my guess is that since it hasn't been a huge issue this campaign, because Romney knew he had a lock on NRA votes already by virtue of being Republican, and because there was no reason to think Obama would bring it up (since Democrats have to handle the question more delicately) he didn't even bother to prep for that question. It's one of the few topics where a candidate, as long as they run right of center, can be as blatantly handwavey as possible and still please the base and moderates. An answer to a gun control question should just roll off the tongue of a Republican presidential candidate, but he just sat there and awkwardly waffled instead, so I'm pretty sure he didn't even think he'd get called on it in a prominent public forum and didn't bother to do his homework.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:34 AM on October 17, 2012
posted by jason_steakums at 7:34 AM on October 17, 2012
Sullivan: "To my mind, Obama dominated Romney tonight in every single way: in substance, manner, style, and personal appeal. He came back like a lethal, but restrained predator. He was able to defend his own record, think swiftly on his feet, and his Benghazi answer was superb. He behaved like a president. He owned the presidency. And Romney? Well, he has no answers on the math question and was exposed. He was vulnerable on every social issue, especially immigration. And he had no real answer to the question of how he'd be different than George W Bush."
Again, in Sully world everything. is! EXTREME!
posted by jaduncan at 7:35 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Again, in Sully world everything. is! EXTREME!
posted by jaduncan at 7:35 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Uh here? We have more millionaires than any other country, dickwad, why do you think that is? We are a very pro-business country.As a percentage of the population, the US has fewer millionaires than Germany.
posted by Jehan at 7:39 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
I don't know, I see Mitt as being pretty consistent here. With regard to women, for example, he is consistent in his belief that women belong at home instead of at work*:
- He doesn't have a plan to address pay inequity in the workplace (disincentive to work)
- He supports flextime that allows women to cook dinner for their families (barefoot of course, take your shoes off at the door)
- He believes single mothers cause gun violence (those kinds of women actually have *multiple* jobs, can you believe it!)
- Thousands of women's jobs were outsourced on his watch at Bain Capital (gender-neutral greed)
*Does not apply to Chinese women.
posted by headnsouth at 7:41 AM on October 17, 2012 [8 favorites]
- He doesn't have a plan to address pay inequity in the workplace (disincentive to work)
- He supports flextime that allows women to cook dinner for their families (barefoot of course, take your shoes off at the door)
- He believes single mothers cause gun violence (those kinds of women actually have *multiple* jobs, can you believe it!)
- Thousands of women's jobs were outsourced on his watch at Bain Capital (gender-neutral greed)
*Does not apply to Chinese women.
posted by headnsouth at 7:41 AM on October 17, 2012 [8 favorites]
GrammarMoses: Man, check out this photo. Obama visibly loathes Romney -- won't even look at him.
Do you have another link for this photo, or instructions on how to get to it? This is the second time I've seen a similar link to this page on NY Times, but neither has worked for me, and I'd sorta like to see the image.
TIA!
posted by syzygy at 7:46 AM on October 17, 2012
Do you have another link for this photo, or instructions on how to get to it? This is the second time I've seen a similar link to this page on NY Times, but neither has worked for me, and I'd sorta like to see the image.
TIA!
posted by syzygy at 7:46 AM on October 17, 2012
There is a realization that Romney believes in America, but his America made up of Team Romney. Mormon? On his team. Business class? His team. Certain socio-economic demographic? His Team. He cares very MUCH about his team. But this is the team he chooses. If you are not on his team, well then you don't matter in as far as you are a useful tool. Good enough to mow your lawn. Good enough die for citizenship. Good enough to be another cog in the machine.
The video of the 47% is devastating because it is what he believes, he is with Team Romney in that room. What is even more devastating is that he is not alone in "othering" fellow Americans. That roomful of Team Romney, is not about to go about for the nation as a whole, just their team. They perceive themselves as masters of the universe team and to be masters you need servants; expendable servants.
I am not a fan of horse races nor sports metaphors or "bro" world, but I understand it. I understand that I can't join, for a variety of reasons, the Gang of Bros for Romney. Seriously, the nation does not need a "bro" it needs an adult to lead it.
posted by jadepearl at 7:46 AM on October 17, 2012 [17 favorites]
The video of the 47% is devastating because it is what he believes, he is with Team Romney in that room. What is even more devastating is that he is not alone in "othering" fellow Americans. That roomful of Team Romney, is not about to go about for the nation as a whole, just their team. They perceive themselves as masters of the universe team and to be masters you need servants; expendable servants.
I am not a fan of horse races nor sports metaphors or "bro" world, but I understand it. I understand that I can't join, for a variety of reasons, the Gang of Bros for Romney. Seriously, the nation does not need a "bro" it needs an adult to lead it.
posted by jadepearl at 7:46 AM on October 17, 2012 [17 favorites]
Here's how I know this debate was a gamechanger (...having opted not to watch it).
The last two debate threads followed the exact same sequence:
1. Prior to debate's start: descriptions of food and beverages at the ready
2: During debate: short and oft-repetitive running commentary, half in all caps
3: Just after debate: incredulous reports of news media distortion
4: Hours after debate: one GOP true-believer digging in heels for the rest of the thread.
#4 didn't happen this time. I'm calling "game over" for Romney, absent a particularly dire October Surprise.
posted by AugieAugustus at 7:46 AM on October 17, 2012 [15 favorites]
The last two debate threads followed the exact same sequence:
1. Prior to debate's start: descriptions of food and beverages at the ready
2: During debate: short and oft-repetitive running commentary, half in all caps
3: Just after debate: incredulous reports of news media distortion
4: Hours after debate: one GOP true-believer digging in heels for the rest of the thread.
#4 didn't happen this time. I'm calling "game over" for Romney, absent a particularly dire October Surprise.
posted by AugieAugustus at 7:46 AM on October 17, 2012 [15 favorites]
I'd really love it if the mike would switch off at the two-minute mark. What a revolution.
posted by Dragonness at 7:50 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Dragonness at 7:50 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
*Does not apply to Chinese women.
It also doesn't even apply to poor American women, who should evidently stop being part of the 47% and get back to work already, working whatever hours the employer demands, for whatever low wage and minimal mandated benefits the employer is allowed to offer.
So the solution Romney proposes is that they should get married? Setting aside the obvious reasons why that is inadvisable, how does that even fix the problem? Does he imagine that having men work those same low-wage, low-benefit jobs that the men will be able to provide for an entire family's food, housing, and healthcare?
There's a real dissonance here. When you get right down to the level of individual family economics, he has very little clarity about what his vision means. And I'd really like to see him pressed more on this. He did give that passing mention to marriage as the solution for rampant violence in America, and also as an economic solution. Wait, can we examine that a little? What underlies these assumptions that marriage is a panacea? This article's a bit old, but it stuck with me because it seems there are myriad critiques of this assumption. Also, what about all the families that would like to be married, but can't, because they're the wrong gender and Romney will not support their union? Wouldn't married parents be better for kids than unmarried parents? Or is it only heteresexual marriages that have the magic effect?
He needs to be pressed more on this. A lot of his views on this stuff are ill thought out and uninformed. He's out of touch in ways that I don't think are yet apparent to a lot of his supporters. And he's incredibly socially conservative when it comes to assigned gender roles - despite the fact that our culture and economy have both restructured away from that expectatation, and that it was never universally healthy in the first place. I'd rather have kids have a working single mom than a mom married to someone who abuses her and them, who has addictions that compromise family finances, who is unreliable or largely absent. What I'd rather see - if we really care about secure and healthy children and families - is the kind of social safety net that makes it possible to make all manner of family choices without risking the sacrifice of opportunity for health, education a better future.
posted by Miko at 7:52 AM on October 17, 2012 [21 favorites]
It also doesn't even apply to poor American women, who should evidently stop being part of the 47% and get back to work already, working whatever hours the employer demands, for whatever low wage and minimal mandated benefits the employer is allowed to offer.
So the solution Romney proposes is that they should get married? Setting aside the obvious reasons why that is inadvisable, how does that even fix the problem? Does he imagine that having men work those same low-wage, low-benefit jobs that the men will be able to provide for an entire family's food, housing, and healthcare?
There's a real dissonance here. When you get right down to the level of individual family economics, he has very little clarity about what his vision means. And I'd really like to see him pressed more on this. He did give that passing mention to marriage as the solution for rampant violence in America, and also as an economic solution. Wait, can we examine that a little? What underlies these assumptions that marriage is a panacea? This article's a bit old, but it stuck with me because it seems there are myriad critiques of this assumption. Also, what about all the families that would like to be married, but can't, because they're the wrong gender and Romney will not support their union? Wouldn't married parents be better for kids than unmarried parents? Or is it only heteresexual marriages that have the magic effect?
He needs to be pressed more on this. A lot of his views on this stuff are ill thought out and uninformed. He's out of touch in ways that I don't think are yet apparent to a lot of his supporters. And he's incredibly socially conservative when it comes to assigned gender roles - despite the fact that our culture and economy have both restructured away from that expectatation, and that it was never universally healthy in the first place. I'd rather have kids have a working single mom than a mom married to someone who abuses her and them, who has addictions that compromise family finances, who is unreliable or largely absent. What I'd rather see - if we really care about secure and healthy children and families - is the kind of social safety net that makes it possible to make all manner of family choices without risking the sacrifice of opportunity for health, education a better future.
posted by Miko at 7:52 AM on October 17, 2012 [21 favorites]
Good enough die for citizenship.
Again, actually not. He said "illegals" should have paths to permanent residency, no mention of citizenship. Thanks for fighting for liberty and for us, don't expect the vote because you look more tanned than my daddy did when he came over from Mexico, kthxbye.
posted by jaduncan at 7:53 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Again, actually not. He said "illegals" should have paths to permanent residency, no mention of citizenship. Thanks for fighting for liberty and for us, don't expect the vote because you look more tanned than my daddy did when he came over from Mexico, kthxbye.
posted by jaduncan at 7:53 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
But wait, Michelle Obama clapped during the debate, proving that they're both Chicago thugs.
posted by octothorpe at 7:55 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 7:55 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
Jesus, octothorpe, the comments on that page make me want to throw up. Yowza.
I like it better in my liberal bubble where nobody calls anybody a "diseased mind African bimbo."
posted by Miko at 7:58 AM on October 17, 2012 [8 favorites]
I like it better in my liberal bubble where nobody calls anybody a "diseased mind African bimbo."
posted by Miko at 7:58 AM on October 17, 2012 [8 favorites]
do the campaigns coordinate tie color the way they decide the terms of the debate? i feel like there's never 2 ties of the same color.
posted by twist my arm at 7:58 AM on October 17, 2012
posted by twist my arm at 7:58 AM on October 17, 2012
Man, check out this photo. Obama is visibly intrigued by the good ideas put forth by Romney.
"Here's what I think about your argument." *rips one*
posted by dirigibleman at 8:00 AM on October 17, 2012
"Here's what I think about your argument." *rips one*
posted by dirigibleman at 8:00 AM on October 17, 2012
Heh, first comment: "The Obama's play by their own rules - Chicago rules."
I should imagine people in the families feel vaguely insulted. "They clap him during general clapping, you nod approvingly at one of yours."
posted by jaduncan at 8:02 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
I should imagine people in the families feel vaguely insulted. "They clap him during general clapping, you nod approvingly at one of yours."
posted by jaduncan at 8:02 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Michelle Obama clapped during the debate
man, that is just chock full of the worst of humanity right there.
posted by edgeways at 8:03 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
man, that is just chock full of the worst of humanity right there.
posted by edgeways at 8:03 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Wow, another "top story" on that Real Clear Politics site is about how, post-debate 2, a whole focus group of former Obama voters switched from to Romney's camp.
I haven't watched the video, but the pull quotes sound exactly like book jacket or movie poster quotes from critics that you can TELL were cherry-picked to disguise just how dull and/or downright bad the book or movie is.
"Forceful, compassionate, presidential," one participant said.
"Confident and realistic," said another.
"Presidential," another told Luntz.
"Enthusiastic," another reacted.
"Our next president," one man said.
"Dynamo, winner," said one more.
Mitt is a summer blockbuster beach movie, with about as much substance. And 47% less plot.
posted by Superplin at 8:09 AM on October 17, 2012 [6 favorites]
I haven't watched the video, but the pull quotes sound exactly like book jacket or movie poster quotes from critics that you can TELL were cherry-picked to disguise just how dull and/or downright bad the book or movie is.
"Forceful, compassionate, presidential," one participant said.
"Confident and realistic," said another.
"Presidential," another told Luntz.
"Enthusiastic," another reacted.
"Our next president," one man said.
"Dynamo, winner," said one more.
Mitt is a summer blockbuster beach movie, with about as much substance. And 47% less plot.
posted by Superplin at 8:09 AM on October 17, 2012 [6 favorites]
Man, term two Obama had better just switch to full on terrorist fist bumps all the time to spite the people who think anything he and his family does is a reflection of their Chicago thuggery.
And maybe all that pearl clutching will create some jobs in the jewelry industry.
posted by mccarty.tim at 8:10 AM on October 17, 2012
And maybe all that pearl clutching will create some jobs in the jewelry industry.
posted by mccarty.tim at 8:10 AM on October 17, 2012
Hahahaha, you can tell by the DRUDGE headlines that Obama won. LOL
posted by Theta States at 8:12 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
FOURNIER: Verdict Uncertain...
ANDREW SULLIVAN: 'I Am Bloody Elated'...
DICK MORRIS: Romney won the second debate...
TREAT: CANDY GIVES OBAMA 9% MORE TIME...
INTERRUPTS ROMNEY 28X...
TRICK: 'Throws the Flag'...
CANDYLAND: Romney was 'right in the main' on Benghazi, but 'picked the wrong word'...
Another debacle for America's media...
Reporters applaud Obama slam on Romney wealth...
Pelley: 'Most Rancorous Debate In History'...
'Nauseating'...
LUNTZ GROUP: BIG SWING...
MSNBC Undecided Voter Panel Swayed -- by Romney?
Threats to Assassinate Republican Explode on TWITTER After Debate...
There is a realization that Romney believes in America, but his America made up of Team Romney. Mormon? On his team. Business class? His team. Certain socio-economic demographic? His Team. He cares very MUCH about his team. But this is the team he chooses.
Hunh. You know, that sounds like what I heard said about Lance Armstrong on the "Hang Up And Listen" podcast this week.
posted by wenestvedt at 8:13 AM on October 17, 2012
Hunh. You know, that sounds like what I heard said about Lance Armstrong on the "Hang Up And Listen" podcast this week.
posted by wenestvedt at 8:13 AM on October 17, 2012
I'd really love to see a rolling blog post correspondence debate for the entire post-convention campaign to supplement the traditional debates. Day 1 Moderator posts question, Day 2 Candidate A posts response, Day 3 is Candidate B, rinse and repeat for the entire campaign. All claims must have citations. It would allow and essentially force the candidates (well, their teams, because that's who would end up writing it) to dig down into details and really expand upon their points, because each post would be spread everywhere and dissected in crazy detail.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:20 AM on October 17, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 8:20 AM on October 17, 2012 [9 favorites]
Did I meme? Ha, this conclusion about Romney was drawn while speaking with Mr. Jadepearl who contends that Romney is the guy you were in high school or the guy you hated. It was trying to reconcile a man who has shown kindness and care to others and yet, fails in the larger picture. In terms, Romney just does not scale well to larger organizations or units. This is probably hard for someone who has internalized the Randian idea of the heroic CEO.
posted by jadepearl at 8:21 AM on October 17, 2012
posted by jadepearl at 8:21 AM on October 17, 2012
It looks like Salon has made the 'binders full of women' debunking it's front page article. I wonder how this is gonna play out.
posted by daHIFI at 8:22 AM on October 17, 2012
posted by daHIFI at 8:22 AM on October 17, 2012
Fox News summarizes the most banal tweets they can find to support Romney.
Twitter was ON FIRE with brilliant tweets, and Fox News pulls out the headline "OPINION: Top Tweets About Debate" and comes up with this?
Wow oh wow.
Oooo Fox News recommends these other stories as well....
Media ignore Obama attack on ‘those who slander the Prophet of Islam’ (this site)
Obama Goes From Cool to Cold
Hillary's sinking ship
CNN’s Crowley first plays umpire, then joins Team Obama
CNN host O'Brien defends Obama, as Giuliani suggests she's tied to campaign
It's time for Hillary Clinton to resign
Barack Obama, The Misoverestimated President
Media uses liberal academics to opine about Obama, but hides their campaign contributions
Mitt Romney is right
In second term, Obama will allow UN to tax Americans
posted by Theta States at 8:24 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Twitter was ON FIRE with brilliant tweets, and Fox News pulls out the headline "OPINION: Top Tweets About Debate" and comes up with this?
Wow oh wow.
Oooo Fox News recommends these other stories as well....
Media ignore Obama attack on ‘those who slander the Prophet of Islam’ (this site)
Obama Goes From Cool to Cold
Hillary's sinking ship
CNN’s Crowley first plays umpire, then joins Team Obama
CNN host O'Brien defends Obama, as Giuliani suggests she's tied to campaign
It's time for Hillary Clinton to resign
Barack Obama, The Misoverestimated President
Media uses liberal academics to opine about Obama, but hides their campaign contributions
Mitt Romney is right
In second term, Obama will allow UN to tax Americans
posted by Theta States at 8:24 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
realclearpolitics, I served with (well usually worked against) Chicago thug politicians. I knew Chicago thug politicians. Chicago thug politicians were a friend of mine (well, not exactly). realclearpolitics, the Obamas are no Chicago thug politicians.
I mean, fuck, I sometimes wish they were, but wishes don't make it real.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:24 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
I mean, fuck, I sometimes wish they were, but wishes don't make it real.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 8:24 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
Fixed that for me.
posted by GrammarMoses at 8:26 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
I knew Chicago thug politicians.
"Son, the Daleys would have had you arrested for a fitted up DUI with a nearby bruised but beautifully photogenic child 6 years ago. Now step off."
posted by jaduncan at 8:27 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
"Son, the Daleys would have had you arrested for a fitted up DUI with a nearby bruised but beautifully photogenic child 6 years ago. Now step off."
posted by jaduncan at 8:27 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
My husband just made this.
I'm surprised so few people made the connection, at least according to Google.
posted by Malice at 8:27 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm surprised so few people made the connection, at least according to Google.
posted by Malice at 8:27 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
From ThetaStates' link of tweets via FoxNewz:
"Binders full of women" sounds like evidence seized from a Russian mail order bride/prostitution ring.
Lolz.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:28 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
"Binders full of women" sounds like evidence seized from a Russian mail order bride/prostitution ring.
Lolz.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:28 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
My husband just made this.
I'm surprised so few people made the connection, at least according to Google.
No. Service guarantees "permanent residency".
posted by jaduncan at 8:30 AM on October 17, 2012 [6 favorites]
I'm surprised so few people made the connection, at least according to Google.
No. Service guarantees "permanent residency".
posted by jaduncan at 8:30 AM on October 17, 2012 [6 favorites]
As a percentage of the population, the US has fewer millionaires than Germany.
You know who else Germany had more of than the US?
posted by msalt at 8:38 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
You know who else Germany had more of than the US?
posted by msalt at 8:38 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
No. Service guarantees "permanent residency".
True, citizenship would be too hopeful.
Still, that phrase seems to be the consensus.
posted by Malice at 8:40 AM on October 17, 2012
True, citizenship would be too hopeful.
Still, that phrase seems to be the consensus.
posted by Malice at 8:40 AM on October 17, 2012
You know who else Germany had more of than the US?
Spätzle?
posted by Malice at 8:42 AM on October 17, 2012 [6 favorites]
Spätzle?
posted by Malice at 8:42 AM on October 17, 2012 [6 favorites]
Romney whined that Obama had carried on campaigning the day after the Benghazi attack--although everyone seems to have rightly ignored that remark as the wet, insignificant bleat it was.
The chutzpah that strikes me here though is that the Benghazi attack was on 9/11--when both candidates had declared they wouldn't campaign. But Romney seemed to forget that in his excitement to make political hay. Evening of 9/11 (Tuesday) he jumps up and starts criticizing the president.
posted by NailsTheCat at 8:44 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
The chutzpah that strikes me here though is that the Benghazi attack was on 9/11--when both candidates had declared they wouldn't campaign. But Romney seemed to forget that in his excitement to make political hay. Evening of 9/11 (Tuesday) he jumps up and starts criticizing the president.
posted by NailsTheCat at 8:44 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
You know who else Germany had more of than the US?
Engineers? I don't get it.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:44 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Engineers? I don't get it.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:44 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
You know who else Germany had more of than the US?
You're saying that Romney wants to be Albert Speer? I guess I can see it in some lights, but Speer had more of a willingness to invest in infrastructure.
posted by jaduncan at 8:47 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
You're saying that Romney wants to be Albert Speer? I guess I can see it in some lights, but Speer had more of a willingness to invest in infrastructure.
posted by jaduncan at 8:47 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I lived in Massachusetts while Romney was governor and remember waiting an awful long time for some very late trains.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:49 AM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 8:49 AM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
You know who else Germany had more of than the US?
Von Trapps. But then we got 'em so it's OK.
posted by Miko at 8:55 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
Von Trapps. But then we got 'em so it's OK.
posted by Miko at 8:55 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
Still, that phrase seems to be the consensus.
Oh, I get it (as a kid I loved Heinlein). But it needs an asterisk.
Here's my version:
Service Guarantees Citizenship*
*not actual citizenship.
The amusing thing here is that it's only revealed at the end of the book that Rico is a Filipino immigrant; the proposal is actually less generous than the satirically fascist Federation.
posted by jaduncan at 8:55 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
Oh, I get it (as a kid I loved Heinlein). But it needs an asterisk.
Here's my version:
Service Guarantees Citizenship*
*not actual citizenship.
The amusing thing here is that it's only revealed at the end of the book that Rico is a Filipino immigrant; the proposal is actually less generous than the satirically fascist Federation.
posted by jaduncan at 8:55 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
Judge Smails + Just For Men = Romney.
posted by klangklangston at 8:56 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by klangklangston at 8:56 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
I just came into this thread to drop something that's been keeping me up. I was watching this Colbert clip from after the DNC where they basically cut a video that shows Obama and Romney talking about the same things: jobs, economy, clear choice, etc. But - Romney said then, and has since been reiterating, 'what we need are jobs,' which he ostensibly knows how to make. Ergo, vote Romney.
Romney's agenda is narrow-mindedly economic - we'll get ya workin', folks! And what is there to do with people apart from put them to work, amirite? That's all you need from a president, amirite? It's so frustrating, and maybe this is why the only thing he was not flip-flopped on has been job creation.
The rest, the social issues, are window dressing. He doesn't really care about your birth control, your labour conditions, your loans, your kids' education, so he doesn't have a stand of his own and instead says whatever is politically expedient. Maybe he doesn't consciously, but he just - it's not what he's thinking about, he can't be expected to keep track!
posted by undue influence at 8:56 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
Romney's agenda is narrow-mindedly economic - we'll get ya workin', folks! And what is there to do with people apart from put them to work, amirite? That's all you need from a president, amirite? It's so frustrating, and maybe this is why the only thing he was not flip-flopped on has been job creation.
The rest, the social issues, are window dressing. He doesn't really care about your birth control, your labour conditions, your loans, your kids' education, so he doesn't have a stand of his own and instead says whatever is politically expedient. Maybe he doesn't consciously, but he just - it's not what he's thinking about, he can't be expected to keep track!
posted by undue influence at 8:56 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
So... we should be more like a European country?
Sounds good to me, modern Germany wouldn't be a terrible model. A viable Red-Green alliance would be something to get excited about.
posted by edgeways at 8:57 AM on October 17, 2012
Sounds good to me, modern Germany wouldn't be a terrible model. A viable Red-Green alliance would be something to get excited about.
posted by edgeways at 8:57 AM on October 17, 2012
I was thinking about that comment about Obama continued campaigning after the Libya attack, and the thing that Romney clearly isn't getting is just how much the President has to pack into every hour of every day. and how when he travels, his airplane is also a fully staffed, fully equipped oval office. I thought the Michael Lewis Vanity Fair article told that story very well..
so, the president is required to do many things, and to continuously switch modes. robots are usually single purpose, I guess.
posted by ninjew at 8:58 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
so, the president is required to do many things, and to continuously switch modes. robots are usually single purpose, I guess.
posted by ninjew at 8:58 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
"The embarrassment of the attack on the American consulate in Benghazi is not that it happened. America has its victories against terrorism, and its defeats, and the murder of Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three American security personnel represents one defeat in a long war. The embarrassment is that political culture in America is such that we can't have an adult conversation about the lessons of Benghazi, a conversation that would focus more on understanding al Qaeda affiliates in North Africa, on the limitations and imperfections of security, and on shortfalls in our intelligence gathering, than on who said what when in the Rose Garden. "
-The Atlantic, The Benghazi Embarrassment by Jeffrey Goldberg
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:58 AM on October 17, 2012 [17 favorites]
-The Atlantic, The Benghazi Embarrassment by Jeffrey Goldberg
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:58 AM on October 17, 2012 [17 favorites]
You know who else Germany had more of than the US?
Von Trapps. But then we got 'em so it's OK.
Austria, actually.
posted by Rangeboy at 8:58 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Von Trapps. But then we got 'em so it's OK.
Austria, actually.
posted by Rangeboy at 8:58 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I lived in Massachusetts while Romney was governor and remember waiting an awful long time for some very late trains.
Oh, is that what we're talking about? Yea, he's bad but he's not that bad.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:02 AM on October 17, 2012
Oh, is that what we're talking about? Yea, he's bad but he's not that bad.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:02 AM on October 17, 2012
After giving it some thought, this is my post debate analysis, a bit more nuanced than some might like:
Romney got beat so bad, he has to wear a Raiders jersey.
Romney got beat so bad, the IOC sent him a "Participant" ribbon.
Romney got beat so bad, people think he's a Lars Ulrich drum solo.
Romney got beat so bad, his hair hurt.
Romney got beat so bad, Quentin Tarantino had to look away.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:03 AM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
Romney got beat so bad, he has to wear a Raiders jersey.
Romney got beat so bad, the IOC sent him a "Participant" ribbon.
Romney got beat so bad, people think he's a Lars Ulrich drum solo.
Romney got beat so bad, his hair hurt.
Romney got beat so bad, Quentin Tarantino had to look away.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:03 AM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
I've been having a long running argument with a right wing acquaintance of mine (in England) about how Obama would be his perfect candidate in nearly any other election. I also pointed out that from my rather far left position, Obama appears to be a disturbingly efficient, ruthless, ideological capitalist warmonger, and yet he is still a FAR better choice than Mitt 'etch a sketch' Romney.
He doesn't seem to listen though, sigh.
posted by knapah at 9:03 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
He doesn't seem to listen though, sigh.
posted by knapah at 9:03 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
I also pointed out that from my rather far left position
I am going to guess it looks less so in the context of UK/EU politics; let us remember that even David Cameron does not suggest getting rid of the single payer model of the NHS.
posted by jaduncan at 9:11 AM on October 17, 2012
I am going to guess it looks less so in the context of UK/EU politics; let us remember that even David Cameron does not suggest getting rid of the single payer model of the NHS.
posted by jaduncan at 9:11 AM on October 17, 2012
...Germany had more of than the US?
"Gott mit Romney" belt buckles.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 9:12 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
"Gott mit Romney" belt buckles.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 9:12 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Oh, right. Oops. But Germany did want 'em -that's why they left after all.
Romney's agenda is narrow-mindedly economic - we'll get ya workin', folks! And what is there to do with people apart from put them to work, amirite?
Quite true. There's a critique of this that's above and beyond policy and gets into philosophy of life, and Romney's just drives us further in the direction of the monomaniacal American obsession with personal salvation through work (not works, work). As though there are no other valuable contributions a human being might make to society, and no other reasons to care for them.
I have this critique, as well, with the general promotion of "jobs". What does that mean? Making things easier for "job creators," so they can create more "jobs." And what does that mean? Ensuring more profit potential for the owners and controllers of enormous, vastly wealthy corporations with budgets greater than many national GDPs, in the hopes that they will choose to grow some aspect of that enterprise that will result in additional jobs within US borders. And what does that mean? That the best and brightest hope they are holding out to you is to become a clock-puncher in one of these global enterprises, the human fuel that makes the engine go so the controlling elite can get where they want.
Is this really the vision of work and employment that Americans treasure most? Working toward somebody else's priorities, and not even someone whose office you can walk into, but someone may rungs up the ladder in a distant home office whose gatekeepers you will never get past? It's not really my vision of good work.
Can we talk about a vision of work that isn't the kind offered by 'job creators' who need you to fill their ranks? What about public service work (teachers, librarians, medical staff in public hospitals, archivists, utilities)? What about self-employment (my grandfather, a master plumber, my mom, an editor, my friends who are freelance writers, photographers, journalists, producers, consultants)? What about actual small businesses (my brother, a restaurant owner, my friend, a bookstore owner, my friend, who runs a cooperative kitchen, countless farmers I buy from)?
There's more to an economy than "jobs" as Romney defines them. There are more kinds of work than just the employment products of global corporations. There's nothing wrong with having that as a sector, but expecting that sector to be all and provide all jobs sounds like a very dour future to me - a recreation of serfdom, with the 1% owner class as the aristocracy. We need a more diverse economy than that, with three robust sectors (public, private, nonprofit), not one sector that controls all and starves the others. And we need funds to flow in and amongst these different kinds of workers, because society needs all kinds of workers and all kinds of talents, small enterprises and larger ones, services and goods, local and regional and national institutions. I'm actually scared of the idea of a "job creator"-focused economy; I find the vision pretty chilling, at its logical end.
posted by Miko at 9:13 AM on October 17, 2012 [116 favorites]
Romney's agenda is narrow-mindedly economic - we'll get ya workin', folks! And what is there to do with people apart from put them to work, amirite?
Quite true. There's a critique of this that's above and beyond policy and gets into philosophy of life, and Romney's just drives us further in the direction of the monomaniacal American obsession with personal salvation through work (not works, work). As though there are no other valuable contributions a human being might make to society, and no other reasons to care for them.
I have this critique, as well, with the general promotion of "jobs". What does that mean? Making things easier for "job creators," so they can create more "jobs." And what does that mean? Ensuring more profit potential for the owners and controllers of enormous, vastly wealthy corporations with budgets greater than many national GDPs, in the hopes that they will choose to grow some aspect of that enterprise that will result in additional jobs within US borders. And what does that mean? That the best and brightest hope they are holding out to you is to become a clock-puncher in one of these global enterprises, the human fuel that makes the engine go so the controlling elite can get where they want.
Is this really the vision of work and employment that Americans treasure most? Working toward somebody else's priorities, and not even someone whose office you can walk into, but someone may rungs up the ladder in a distant home office whose gatekeepers you will never get past? It's not really my vision of good work.
Can we talk about a vision of work that isn't the kind offered by 'job creators' who need you to fill their ranks? What about public service work (teachers, librarians, medical staff in public hospitals, archivists, utilities)? What about self-employment (my grandfather, a master plumber, my mom, an editor, my friends who are freelance writers, photographers, journalists, producers, consultants)? What about actual small businesses (my brother, a restaurant owner, my friend, a bookstore owner, my friend, who runs a cooperative kitchen, countless farmers I buy from)?
There's more to an economy than "jobs" as Romney defines them. There are more kinds of work than just the employment products of global corporations. There's nothing wrong with having that as a sector, but expecting that sector to be all and provide all jobs sounds like a very dour future to me - a recreation of serfdom, with the 1% owner class as the aristocracy. We need a more diverse economy than that, with three robust sectors (public, private, nonprofit), not one sector that controls all and starves the others. And we need funds to flow in and amongst these different kinds of workers, because society needs all kinds of workers and all kinds of talents, small enterprises and larger ones, services and goods, local and regional and national institutions. I'm actually scared of the idea of a "job creator"-focused economy; I find the vision pretty chilling, at its logical end.
posted by Miko at 9:13 AM on October 17, 2012 [116 favorites]
Fantastic comment, Miko. It reminds me a lot of this CNN op-ed from a few months ago that I thought was really thought provoking (emphasis mine):
posted by Phire at 9:22 AM on October 17, 2012 [38 favorites]
Our problem is not that we don’t have enough stuff — it’s that we don’t have enough ways for people to work and prove that they deserve this stuff.What's the point of all the technological advances and efficiency improvements in the world if the net result is that you just have to work longer and harder hours for less pay in order to compete with machines? Advancements are supposed to make our lives better on the whole, not just for the folks who invented the machine.
The question we have to begin to ask ourselves is not how do we employ all the people who are rendered obsolete by technology, but how can we organize a society around something other than employment? Might the spirit of enterprise we currently associate with “career” be shifted to something entirely more collaborative, purposeful, and even meaningful?
Instead, we are attempting to use the logic of a scarce marketplace to negotiate things that are actually in abundance. What we lack is not employment, but a way of fairly distributing the bounty we have generated through our technologies, and a way of creating meaning in a world that has already produced far too much stuff.
posted by Phire at 9:22 AM on October 17, 2012 [38 favorites]
I really hope Bob Shieffer brings a gong next week.
I first read that as "brings a bong next week" and thought, "Yeah!"
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:26 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
I first read that as "brings a bong next week" and thought, "Yeah!"
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:26 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
The Schieff brings a bong and bangs the gong everywhere he goes.
posted by COBRA! at 9:28 AM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by COBRA! at 9:28 AM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
Phire: how can we organize a society around something other than employment?
By making nationalized health care happen. With a nationalized health care system, workers would not be beholden to their employers, they would be able to freelance, and create, and work two part-time jobs, or job-share, or take a risk on their own business. Jobs would be necessary for the work itself, and for the money, but corporations would no longer be involved in any way whatsoever in the most intimate, vulnerable part of your life and the thing that keeps you dependent on them: your physical and mental health.
And that's exactly why the oligarchs are against it.
posted by headnsouth at 9:30 AM on October 17, 2012 [61 favorites]
By making nationalized health care happen. With a nationalized health care system, workers would not be beholden to their employers, they would be able to freelance, and create, and work two part-time jobs, or job-share, or take a risk on their own business. Jobs would be necessary for the work itself, and for the money, but corporations would no longer be involved in any way whatsoever in the most intimate, vulnerable part of your life and the thing that keeps you dependent on them: your physical and mental health.
And that's exactly why the oligarchs are against it.
posted by headnsouth at 9:30 AM on October 17, 2012 [61 favorites]
Green Party Candidates Arrested, Shackled to Chairs For 8 Hours After Trying to Enter Hofstra Debate
Expanding the Debate with Third-Party Candidates Jill Stein, Virgil Goode, Rocky Anderson
posted by homunculus at 9:32 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
Expanding the Debate with Third-Party Candidates Jill Stein, Virgil Goode, Rocky Anderson
posted by homunculus at 9:32 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
Democracy Now still excludes Vermin Supreme.
posted by klangklangston at 9:37 AM on October 17, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by klangklangston at 9:37 AM on October 17, 2012 [7 favorites]
Too right, Miko. The lowest point in the debate for me last night was when Obama gave far too much creedence to the "Government doesn't create jobs" canard:
Government creates jobs directly for the teachers, librarians, etc. as you so eloquently stated, but it also creates brand new industries through government-funded research. Does anyone really think SpaceX exists today without the Apollo Program? Does Google exist without ARPAnet? Heck, Romney loves him some defense spending, so much that he wants to give them $2T above what they're asking for -- that's a whole lot of money to spend if it's not creating any military jobs!
Obama really whiffed on this answer. I know what he was trying to do -- turn the "what's the biggest misconception about you" question around into something positive like "hey, folks, I'm not really a big-Government liberal!" But if you're starting off running away from the idea that government has a role to play in job creation, you're doing it wrong.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:37 AM on October 17, 2012 [8 favorites]
OBAMA: Barry, I think a lot of this campaign, maybe over the last four years, has been devoted to this nation that I think government creates jobs, that that somehow is the answer.He goes on to offer a defense of the safety net and government regulation, channeling Elizabeth Warren's "fair shot" and "play by the same rules" rhetoric, but you just can't talk about government as if it doesn't have a role to play in creating jobs, because it absolutely does, and not just the one that the two men are fighting for.
That's not what I believe. I believe that the free enterprise system is the greatest engine of prosperity the world's ever known.
Government creates jobs directly for the teachers, librarians, etc. as you so eloquently stated, but it also creates brand new industries through government-funded research. Does anyone really think SpaceX exists today without the Apollo Program? Does Google exist without ARPAnet? Heck, Romney loves him some defense spending, so much that he wants to give them $2T above what they're asking for -- that's a whole lot of money to spend if it's not creating any military jobs!
Obama really whiffed on this answer. I know what he was trying to do -- turn the "what's the biggest misconception about you" question around into something positive like "hey, folks, I'm not really a big-Government liberal!" But if you're starting off running away from the idea that government has a role to play in job creation, you're doing it wrong.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:37 AM on October 17, 2012 [8 favorites]
It's complete and total bull that we can't watch them all debate. We're not time constrained. Most of us have DVRs. Certainly we have money in the budget to give EVERYONE time to debate together.
posted by Malice at 9:38 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Malice at 9:38 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
I think that's too simplistic, headnsouth. I totally agree with you that nationalized health care is a necessary condition, but I don't think it's sufficient. The UK have the NHS and Canada has universal healtcare and the politicians are still scheming of ways to cut welfare and cut funding to education and blah blah blah. (Some jackass in Ontario has even been trying to reopen the abortion debate decades after it's been settled.)
Part of the issue is that we're not post-scarcity yet - the government still needs money to pay for infrastructure and other public goods, and corporations still need money to make stuff that we use in every day life, and citizens still need money to buy stuff and pay the government to make their lives better. But given how wealthy first-world countries are on the whole, it's ridiculous to me that we really cannot find any better use of our time than to spend 40 hours a week in front of a computer / behind a counter / at an assembly-line, and that this sort of meaningless interchangeable "work" is the predominant social determinant of our worth.
posted by Phire at 9:40 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Part of the issue is that we're not post-scarcity yet - the government still needs money to pay for infrastructure and other public goods, and corporations still need money to make stuff that we use in every day life, and citizens still need money to buy stuff and pay the government to make their lives better. But given how wealthy first-world countries are on the whole, it's ridiculous to me that we really cannot find any better use of our time than to spend 40 hours a week in front of a computer / behind a counter / at an assembly-line, and that this sort of meaningless interchangeable "work" is the predominant social determinant of our worth.
posted by Phire at 9:40 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
wonder if they will touch climate change next debate.
I sympathize with Stein, and other 3rd partiers, but I don't think the bar of having to show national relevance before being invited to the debates is necessarily a bad one. And really a national party needs to come from the ground up across the nation, not just run for high profile offices.
Certainly we have money in the budget to give EVERYONE time to debate together.
So if I get my friends together and form the Pro-Rabbit party I should be included?
posted by edgeways at 9:41 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
I sympathize with Stein, and other 3rd partiers, but I don't think the bar of having to show national relevance before being invited to the debates is necessarily a bad one. And really a national party needs to come from the ground up across the nation, not just run for high profile offices.
Certainly we have money in the budget to give EVERYONE time to debate together.
So if I get my friends together and form the Pro-Rabbit party I should be included?
posted by edgeways at 9:41 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
We're not time constrained.
I actually disagree with this. Many people are extremely time constrained, so much so that if they have any exposure to the debate, it’s skimming the transcript or watching whatever clips the pundits pull the next day. Any longer than 90 minutes and you’re probably going to see a sharp decline in viewership and real understanding of what happens.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:42 AM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
I actually disagree with this. Many people are extremely time constrained, so much so that if they have any exposure to the debate, it’s skimming the transcript or watching whatever clips the pundits pull the next day. Any longer than 90 minutes and you’re probably going to see a sharp decline in viewership and real understanding of what happens.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:42 AM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
The idea that "the free enterprise system" requires no "government" component is the fallacy. Any of the great theorists of free enterprise would call this out. Free enterprise is not the state of nature.
posted by spitbull at 9:44 AM on October 17, 2012
posted by spitbull at 9:44 AM on October 17, 2012
"Tonight's episode of New Girl will be a presidential debate. It’s going to be zany and hilarious and much longer than a normal episode."
posted by dirigibleman at 9:49 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by dirigibleman at 9:49 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
4: Hours after debate: one GOP true-believer digging in heels for the rest of the thread.
#4 didn't happen this time. I'm calling "game over" for Romney,
She was needed elsewhere.
posted by spitbull at 9:50 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
#4 didn't happen this time. I'm calling "game over" for Romney,
She was needed elsewhere.
posted by spitbull at 9:50 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
I totally agree with tonycpsu about the "government doesn't create jobs" myth. I loved the part of the debate where Romney randomly said that twice in a row. Yet, here he is, trying to convince us that he can create 12 million jobs if and only if he holds the highest position in the federal government. If he's not in charge of government, he can't create those 12 million jobs, yet he claims government doesn't create jobs.
posted by perhapses at 9:56 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by perhapses at 9:56 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
POLL: Obama Leads Among Small Children Who Can't Vote
posted by homunculus at 9:58 AM on October 17, 2012
posted by homunculus at 9:58 AM on October 17, 2012
Obama Campaign Releases Ad: Mitt Romney's Condescending Views Toward Women (VIDEO).
posted by ericb at 10:07 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by ericb at 10:07 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Paul Ryan says he disagrees that Romney being fact-checked by Candy Crowley on Libya was his weakest moment. Ryan also tries to clarify the "binders full of women" remark. (VIDEO):
All he meant was that he went out of his way to try and recruit qualified women to serve in his administration when he was governor. And by the way, he has an exceptional record of hiring women in very prominent positions in his administration, and that’s the point he was making.posted by ericb at 10:10 AM on October 17, 2012
I really hope Bob Shieffer brings a gong next week.
I first read that as "brings a bong next week"
The Schieff brings a bong and bangs the gong everywhere he goes.
I hope he brings a bong and bangs a gong and gets it on.
After all, he does have the teeth of the hydra upon him.
Wndy and wild? Oh, yeah!
posted by Herodios at 10:11 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
I first read that as "brings a bong next week"
The Schieff brings a bong and bangs the gong everywhere he goes.
I hope he brings a bong and bangs a gong and gets it on.
After all, he does have the teeth of the hydra upon him.
Wndy and wild? Oh, yeah!
posted by Herodios at 10:11 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
POLL: Obama Leads Among Small Children Who Can't Vote
posted by ericb at 10:11 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Scholastic did emphasize that their presidential poll "may not be official, but its results have often indicated who eventually wins the presidential race" since the mock poll started in 1940. The children surveyed have so far only failed to predict the future twice, with a majority voting for for Dewey over Truman in 1948 (can't really blame them on that one...), and Nixon over JFK in 1960 (one of the closest US presidential elections ever...Let's hope they're right again this time.
posted by ericb at 10:11 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
homunculus: "POLL: Obama Leads Among Small Children Who Can't Vote"
Well that's a silly poll to take. They should have asked small children who can vote.
posted by brundlefly at 10:18 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
Well that's a silly poll to take. They should have asked small children who can vote.
posted by brundlefly at 10:18 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
They should have asked small children who can vote.
Why take a poll of only one par... nevermind.
posted by RolandOfEld at 10:19 AM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
Why take a poll of only one par... nevermind.
posted by RolandOfEld at 10:19 AM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
Dave Weigel: If You Ignore What He Said, Obama Never Said the Libya Attack Was Terrorism
posted by tonycpsu at 10:29 AM on October 17, 2012 [6 favorites]
Hayes says that Obama "said nothing about a terrorist attack," when Obama merely referred to "terrorists" and an "attack." Got that?I cannot believe this is the hill the GOP message machine wants to die on, but there they are.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:29 AM on October 17, 2012 [6 favorites]
Fox News Watergates Debate Transcript; Erases Four Worst Minutes Of Mitt Romney’s Life
posted by homunculus at 10:30 AM on October 17, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 10:30 AM on October 17, 2012 [8 favorites]
VP Debate Songified via Vysharra in the Motherthread. Brilliant!
posted by ersatz at 10:37 AM on October 17, 2012
posted by ersatz at 10:37 AM on October 17, 2012
It Felt Like [Mitt Romney] Was Staring Into My Soul’: The Post-Debate Musings of Jeremy Epstein
can we do a kickstarter to get this kid a tailor or something #teamjeremy
posted by ninjew at 10:40 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
can we do a kickstarter to get this kid a tailor or something #teamjeremy
posted by ninjew at 10:40 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
The GOP message machine is a noise machine. They don't care that lots of people will see right through their game, those people weren't going to vote for Romney anyway. What they care about distracting enough people away from what actually was said by Romney and Crowley. Your candidate made a mistake? Make a lot of noise so people pay attention to the noise and not the mistake.
posted by plastic_animals at 10:42 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by plastic_animals at 10:42 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
VP Debate Songified via Vysharra in the Motherthread. Brilliant!
The Town Hall Debate Songified just went up
posted by mikepop at 10:46 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
The Town Hall Debate Songified just went up
posted by mikepop at 10:46 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
(but I still think the VP songify is the best of the lot)
posted by mikepop at 10:50 AM on October 17, 2012
posted by mikepop at 10:50 AM on October 17, 2012
Democracy Now still excludes Vermin Supreme.
Supreme was busy coordinating with his political allies to create a ticket for the next election. McMillan/Supreme 2016!
posted by homunculus at 11:03 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Supreme was busy coordinating with his political allies to create a ticket for the next election. McMillan/Supreme 2016!
posted by homunculus at 11:03 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm surprised so few people made the connection
I would do a Romney: "I can't do human... yet" but I don't want to dishonour the NPH.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 11:21 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
I would do a Romney: "I can't do human... yet" but I don't want to dishonour the NPH.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 11:21 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
MassGAP responds to Mitt Romney on women appointees
posted by homunculus at 11:37 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 11:37 AM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Annotated transcript of the binders full of women.
CROWLEY: Governor Romney, pay equity for women?
(The question is about equal pay, for which he makes no mention.)
Mr. MITT ROMNEY: Thank you. An important topic, and one which I learned a great deal about, particularly as I was serving as governor of my state, because I had the chance to pull together a cabinet and all the applicants seemed to be men.
(Really, all the applicants "seemed" to be men? Not actually men, just seemed to be - okay, a grammatical slip, he meant "it seemed all the applicants were men." And, you are actually trying to say that you weren't getting any female applicants for the jobs?)
Mr. MR: And I — and I went to my staff, and I said, “How come all the people for these jobs are — are all men.” They said, “Well, these are the people that have the qualifications.”
(Yes, he is stating all the people applying for the jobs were men. And then he goes on to admit to having a dick-headed staff who believe that only men are qualified for cabinet positions. This is in 2002. I'm guessing his staff, having said something so jerky and sexist and 19th century, must have been all men. And who chose these jerks?)
Mr. MR: And I said, “Well, gosh, can’t we — can’t we find some — some women that are also qualified?”
(He pulls out the gosh word, puts a finger to his lips and says "can't we find?" - maybe yes, maybe no, some women who are also qualified. Scour the bushes! Send out the hounds!)
Mr. MR: And — and so we — we took a concerted effort to go out and find women who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become members of our cabinet.
(Somewhere, be they locked in closets or accidentally had their skirts snagged in the ovens, there must be some qualified women somewhere.)
Mr. MR: I went to a number of women’s groups and said, “Can you help us find folks,” and they brought us whole binders full of women.
(Yep, women's groups are the only ones who can find them. Your concerted effort is asking someone else to find them. And you know who else had binders for his women?)
Mr. MR: I was proud of the fact that after I staffed my Cabinet and my senior staff, that the University of New York in Albany did a survey of all 50 states, and concluded that mine had more women in senior leadership positions than any other state in America.
(Except, if this is to be believed, he had less women in his administration than the previous one and the binder was prepared by a non-partisan group before the election.)
There is such a contemptuousness looking-down-the-nose at women in this answer - as though women don't apply for jobs and qualified women are so rare they have to be hunted down. It's so unself-consciously stated snobbery, I would think it came as dialogue on Mad Men.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:44 AM on October 17, 2012 [12 favorites]
CROWLEY: Governor Romney, pay equity for women?
(The question is about equal pay, for which he makes no mention.)
Mr. MITT ROMNEY: Thank you. An important topic, and one which I learned a great deal about, particularly as I was serving as governor of my state, because I had the chance to pull together a cabinet and all the applicants seemed to be men.
(Really, all the applicants "seemed" to be men? Not actually men, just seemed to be - okay, a grammatical slip, he meant "it seemed all the applicants were men." And, you are actually trying to say that you weren't getting any female applicants for the jobs?)
Mr. MR: And I — and I went to my staff, and I said, “How come all the people for these jobs are — are all men.” They said, “Well, these are the people that have the qualifications.”
(Yes, he is stating all the people applying for the jobs were men. And then he goes on to admit to having a dick-headed staff who believe that only men are qualified for cabinet positions. This is in 2002. I'm guessing his staff, having said something so jerky and sexist and 19th century, must have been all men. And who chose these jerks?)
Mr. MR: And I said, “Well, gosh, can’t we — can’t we find some — some women that are also qualified?”
(He pulls out the gosh word, puts a finger to his lips and says "can't we find?" - maybe yes, maybe no, some women who are also qualified. Scour the bushes! Send out the hounds!)
Mr. MR: And — and so we — we took a concerted effort to go out and find women who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become members of our cabinet.
(Somewhere, be they locked in closets or accidentally had their skirts snagged in the ovens, there must be some qualified women somewhere.)
Mr. MR: I went to a number of women’s groups and said, “Can you help us find folks,” and they brought us whole binders full of women.
(Yep, women's groups are the only ones who can find them. Your concerted effort is asking someone else to find them. And you know who else had binders for his women?)
Mr. MR: I was proud of the fact that after I staffed my Cabinet and my senior staff, that the University of New York in Albany did a survey of all 50 states, and concluded that mine had more women in senior leadership positions than any other state in America.
(Except, if this is to be believed, he had less women in his administration than the previous one and the binder was prepared by a non-partisan group before the election.)
There is such a contemptuousness looking-down-the-nose at women in this answer - as though women don't apply for jobs and qualified women are so rare they have to be hunted down. It's so unself-consciously stated snobbery, I would think it came as dialogue on Mad Men.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:44 AM on October 17, 2012 [12 favorites]
It Felt Like [Mitt Romney] Was Staring Into My Soul’: The Post-Debate Musings of Jeremy Epstein
The tragic thing is he means that as a compliment. As if demonic superpowers are the sort of thing he looks for in a presidential candidate.
"I voted for Romney because of his strong position on China and his ability to replenish his dark lightning forcefield by feasting on the still-beating hearts of his enemies."
posted by howfar at 11:46 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
The tragic thing is he means that as a compliment. As if demonic superpowers are the sort of thing he looks for in a presidential candidate.
"I voted for Romney because of his strong position on China and his ability to replenish his dark lightning forcefield by feasting on the still-beating hearts of his enemies."
posted by howfar at 11:46 AM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
The debate has now been auto-tuned, and it's catchy as hell.
posted by General Malaise at 11:55 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by General Malaise at 11:55 AM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
Truly, Jeremy spoke in class today.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:58 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:58 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Any day that Fox News goes from awful to looney paranoia man what the fuck are they smoking land is a good day.
posted by angrycat at 11:59 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 11:59 AM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
The "whole binders full of women" phrasing has been bugging me all day. It is how he describes what happened that I find weird-- and I am apparently not alone since it became one of the stand-out moments of the debate. He could have said he was given large lists of qualified applicants or many great resumes, but instead he called them "binders full of women." Were they qualified? Did he appoint any of them? Was he impressed by anyone in particular-- a name or a background specialty? It is as if the binder itself, it's very appearance, made more of an impression on him than the women he went on to appoint.
No doubt there are some people who would find this very nit-picky, but it is in our choice of language that we reveal our thought processes.
Ooooo the Republicans just called; early voting for NC starts tomorrow!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:00 PM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
No doubt there are some people who would find this very nit-picky, but it is in our choice of language that we reveal our thought processes.
Ooooo the Republicans just called; early voting for NC starts tomorrow!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:00 PM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
Stop giving Romney a hard time. Clearly he meant "qualified despite being women."
posted by klangklangston at 12:02 PM on October 17, 2012 [15 favorites]
posted by klangklangston at 12:02 PM on October 17, 2012 [15 favorites]
After all, it is important to have a cabinet you can fart in front of instead of holding it in all day.
posted by klangklangston at 12:03 PM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by klangklangston at 12:03 PM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
"Mr. Obama wanted to sue this business, and all they did was kill 23 birds."
(From Top 100 Internet Reactions to the 2nd Presidential Debate)
posted by Room 641-A at 12:05 PM on October 17, 2012 [6 favorites]
(From Top 100 Internet Reactions to the 2nd Presidential Debate)
posted by Room 641-A at 12:05 PM on October 17, 2012 [6 favorites]
That gun question, what in all the hells happened there. I mean Romney is a champ at missing the point, but what was he even talking about with the babies and single parents
He was thinking of Boyz n the Hood. The conservative worldview is that violence (and other bad things) is what happens when there's no strong father figure to discipline the children.
posted by callmejay at 12:06 PM on October 17, 2012 [7 favorites]
He was thinking of Boyz n the Hood. The conservative worldview is that violence (and other bad things) is what happens when there's no strong father figure to discipline the children.
posted by callmejay at 12:06 PM on October 17, 2012 [7 favorites]
OBAMA: Barry, I think a lot of this campaign, maybe over the last four years, has been devoted to this nation that I think government creates jobs, that that somehow is the answer.
For a second there I thought that Obama was talking to himself in this exerpt, and I was trying to remember at what point in the debate that happened.
posted by mcmile at 12:14 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
(From Top 100 Internet Reactions to the 2nd Presidential Debate)
I'm surprised at how hilarious most of these are.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:14 PM on October 17, 2012
I'm surprised at how hilarious most of these are.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:14 PM on October 17, 2012
...Germany had more of than the US?
Signs reading "arbeit macht frei"
Romney's agenda is narrow-mindedly economic - we'll get ya workin', folks!
Well, admittedly it was just a guess.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 12:21 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Signs reading "arbeit macht frei"
Romney's agenda is narrow-mindedly economic - we'll get ya workin', folks!
Well, admittedly it was just a guess.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 12:21 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
He could have said he was given large lists of qualified applicants or many great resumes, but instead he called them "binders full of women."
It's possible he was talking about his magic card collection...
posted by ghostbikes at 12:25 PM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
It's possible he was talking about his magic card collection...
posted by ghostbikes at 12:25 PM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
Obama Mocks Romney's 'Binders' Comment At Post-Debate Rally.
posted by ericb at 12:29 PM on October 17, 2012
posted by ericb at 12:29 PM on October 17, 2012
White House Rose Garden, September 12, 2012, Remarks by the President on the Deaths of U.S. Embassy Staff in Libya:
President Obama also called the attack an "act of terror" during a campaign appearance on September 13:
No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done.Since the entire speech was about the attack in Libya, how does "acts of terror" not refer to the attack?
President Obama also called the attack an "act of terror" during a campaign appearance on September 13:
So what I want all of you to know is that we are going to bring those who killed our fellow Americans to justice. I want people around the world to hear me: To all those who would do us harm, no act of terror will go unpunished. It will not dim the light of the values that we proudly present to the rest of the world. No act of violence shakes the resolve of the United States of America.posted by kirkaracha at 12:31 PM on October 17, 2012
Boston Phoenix: How Much Damage Could A President Romney Do? Let Us Count The Ways
Mitt Romney's penchant for saying whatever he thinks might get him elected creates a challenge for a country eager to discern what he would actually do as president. That's true of every candidate for any office, but most would agree that Romney represents an extreme case. Some hints of the real Romney can be teased out: from his policy book No Apology, his campaign position papers, his cadre of advisors and likely cabinet members, and his public statements — and leaked private ones. But in general, little coming out of the man's mouth can be assumed to match what he has said before, let alone his true beliefs — whatever they might be.posted by ericb at 12:32 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
But let's give it a shot.
Paul Ryan, Joe Biden Disagree Over Romney's 'Binders Full Of Women' Debate Remark.
posted by ericb at 12:34 PM on October 17, 2012
posted by ericb at 12:34 PM on October 17, 2012
The group behind the attack in Libya cited the video as a reason for the attack:
To Libyans who witnessed the assault and know the attackers, there is little doubt what occurred: a well-known group of local Islamist militants struck the United States Mission without any warning or protest, and they did it in retaliation for the video. That is what the fighters said at the time, speaking emotionally of their anger at the video without mentioning Al Qaeda, Osama bin Laden or the terrorist strikes of 11 years earlier. And it is an explanation that tracks with their history as members of a local militant group determined to protect Libya from Western influence.posted by kirkaracha at 12:35 PM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
I think in the final foreign policy debate, Obama has to get hold of this right away and make Romney look puny and ignorant for (a) politicizing this issue and (b) having neither the knowledge or sophistication as a diplomat to understand the complexity of issues like communications around terrorism in the changing Middle East. He can easily school Romney here, and cast him as a know-nothing bully whose hotheaded, belligerent and uninformed attitude could land us in the run up to World War III, as opposed to the wiser, more long-view and rational tactics a well-informed and well-prepared Obama administration is taking.
posted by Miko at 12:40 PM on October 17, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by Miko at 12:40 PM on October 17, 2012 [8 favorites]
Obama: (I hope) "Romney wants to put working women in binders and keep 'em up on a shelf, so he can conveniently pull them out for political purposes when it suits him, and then put them away again after the campaign. "
posted by msalt at 12:57 PM on October 17, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by msalt at 12:57 PM on October 17, 2012 [7 favorites]
Well, that was fast:
If you have a Facebook, a Twitter, or a television, then you've probably already heard about Mitt Romney's "Binder Full of Women" comments from last night's debate. And, if you're like me, you're already brainstorming on how to turn this into a clever Halloween costume!
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:03 PM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
If you have a Facebook, a Twitter, or a television, then you've probably already heard about Mitt Romney's "Binder Full of Women" comments from last night's debate. And, if you're like me, you're already brainstorming on how to turn this into a clever Halloween costume!
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:03 PM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
Romney's critique of Obama's foreign policy (before the Libya meltdown):
posted by kirkaracha at 1:03 PM on October 17, 2012
And this calls into question the president's whole policy in the Middle East. Look what's happening in Syria, in Egypt, now in Libya. Consider the distance between ourselves and -- and Israel, the president said that -- that he was going to put daylight between us and Israel.Here's a list of some places. What are the issues, and what would Romney do different? He mentions Syria twice, exaggerating its strategic importance. He also repeats his widely-debunked lie about the so-called "apology tour."
We have Iran four years closer to a nuclear bomb. Syria -- Syria's not just a tragedy of 30,000 civilians being killed by a military, but also a strategic -- strategically significant player for America.
The president's policies throughout the Middle East began with an apology tour and -- and -- and pursue a strategy of leading from behind, and this strategy is unraveling before our very eyes.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:03 PM on October 17, 2012
I love the idea that Obama's reference to "acts of terror" is somehow a non sequitur. Like he could have said "No giant squid attack will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for," without completely changing the meaning.
posted by brundlefly at 1:07 PM on October 17, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by brundlefly at 1:07 PM on October 17, 2012 [9 favorites]
Candy Crowley Talks About Fact-Checking Mitt Romney and the Debate on 'The View': VIDEO -- 1 || 2.
posted by ericb at 1:14 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by ericb at 1:14 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
More on the "small business" story of the foundation of Bain Capital. Sounds pretty routine to me, I mean, I'm sure my aunt and uncle's greenhouse business was started with tens of millions of dollars in Central American seed money!
posted by tonycpsu at 1:15 PM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 1:15 PM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
Candy Crowley Talks About Fact-Checking Mitt Romney and the Debate on 'The View': VIDEO -- 1 || 2 .
Well, now I am SUPER looking forward to Ann's appearance tomorrow.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:18 PM on October 17, 2012
Well, now I am SUPER looking forward to Ann's appearance tomorrow.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:18 PM on October 17, 2012
You can get Romney's binders on Amazon!
"This binder is decent, but I would prefer it to include the black plastic thing on the inside so that I can flip the women back to the front when they get out of line. That said, it adequately holds all of the women and they don't usually get stuck on the rings inside. Although, when I pile my binders full of women on top of each other, the weight causes the rings to buckle a little bit and misalign and then sometimes my women do get caught on the rings. But we all know how women are, right? Typically heavy and hung up on rings! So as much as you may be tempted to pile and lay your binders of women on their sides, women end up being much more useful when upright."posted by Phire at 1:40 PM on October 17, 2012 [10 favorites]
"As a woman, I'm not adept at making decisions that concern me. So when I need the right choice, I turn to the presidential candidate that KNOWS. One with prideful experience in this department. I don't want to be filed away in inferior storage mechanisms. I want a top of the line, 1980s prime, sturdy, Avery Durable binder. It's the choice women can trust. My education, my talents, my opinions, my choices, please PLEASE keep them safely stored away here and away from the men that might fear them. (I am a woman, and I approve of this message.)"
Gah, I'm jonesing for new polls to show movement!
posted by Theta States at 1:42 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Theta States at 1:42 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
As for Mr. MR, I was thinking of something along the line of Major Major (Catch-22).
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:42 PM on October 17, 2012
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:42 PM on October 17, 2012
All Things Considered (NPR) just played a clip of willard campaigning today saying that Obama had let women down blah blah blah. According to the polls, almost 50 percent of my fellow americans will vote for this guy. Where are their brains?
No need to to answer that folks.
posted by futz at 1:43 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
No need to to answer that folks.
posted by futz at 1:43 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
The Sensata folks (they work at a Bain-owned plant and their jobs are getting shipped to China) try to deliver an open letter to Romney's headquarters, but instead get locked out and the police called on them.
In my dream world, this counts as Foreign Policy, and Obama brings it up in a great way at the end of this Monday's debate with Bob Scheiffer.
posted by cashman at 1:43 PM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
In my dream world, this counts as Foreign Policy, and Obama brings it up in a great way at the end of this Monday's debate with Bob Scheiffer.
posted by cashman at 1:43 PM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
Preliminary results are in and viewership numbers between debates 1 and 2 are about even, with a few million more watching the 2nd debate at the 10pm hour.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:46 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:46 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
The Sensata folks (they work at a Bain-owned plant and their jobs are getting shipped to China) try to deliver an open letter to Romney's headquarters, but instead get locked out and the police called on them.
My Pain Is Mitt Romney's Gain: My Story as a Sensata Worker
posted by homunculus at 1:55 PM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
My Pain Is Mitt Romney's Gain: My Story as a Sensata Worker
posted by homunculus at 1:55 PM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
The Sensata folks (they work at a Bain-owned plant and their jobs are getting shipped to China) try to deliver an open letter to Romney's headquarters, but instead get locked out and the police called on them.
Occupy Romney Street.
posted by RolandOfEld at 2:02 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Occupy Romney Street.
posted by RolandOfEld at 2:02 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Wrong. The word "pizza" appears once in this thread, achrise.
posted by koeselitz at 2:05 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by koeselitz at 2:05 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Green Party Candidates Arrested, Shackled to Chairs For 8 Hours After Trying to Enter Hofstra Debate
posted by mrgrimm at 2:07 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mrgrimm at 2:07 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Wow, I just rewatched the Romney "I don't have lobbyists on my campaign" video and realized how much this man can't stand being called out on falsehoods.
Watch the video but pay special attention to Romney after he leaves the mike and goes to leave. He detours back to the reporter who called him out just to explain how right he is because it is so very important to him that he not be spoken to in that fashion.
With regards to his performance in the second (and first I suppose) debate, this makes perfect, perfect sense.
posted by RolandOfEld at 2:08 PM on October 17, 2012 [18 favorites]
Watch the video but pay special attention to Romney after he leaves the mike and goes to leave. He detours back to the reporter who called him out just to explain how right he is because it is so very important to him that he not be spoken to in that fashion.
With regards to his performance in the second (and first I suppose) debate, this makes perfect, perfect sense.
posted by RolandOfEld at 2:08 PM on October 17, 2012 [18 favorites]
The word pizza appears exactly five times, barring further discussion of pizza after I make this remark.
posted by maryr at 2:08 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by maryr at 2:08 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney's 31 lies in 41 minutes.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:09 PM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:09 PM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
I feel like there's a case to be made about a parallel between Republican-aligned media's insistence that calling something an "act of terror" isn't the same as calling it a "terroristic act," and the tendency among right-evangelical churches to insist that one isn't truly born again until one uses a particular phrase indicating their acceptance of Jesus into their heart. Sort of a shared right-wing tendency to treat words as magic totems rather than signifiers for referents to things in the world.
but really it's just Republican-aligned media outlets trying and failing to cover their asses for having made a mistake that Romney ended up repeating...
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:17 PM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
but really it's just Republican-aligned media outlets trying and failing to cover their asses for having made a mistake that Romney ended up repeating...
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 2:17 PM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
I have recently been taking advantage of some familial generosity while looking for a place to rent. I have attempted to be a good guest, and have not said anything about the fact that FoxNews is on TV constantly during waking hours, loud enough to hear basically anywhere in the house.
My take away after several weeks of this is that I honestly just can not understand the anger these people must have in them. They sound absolutely furious today while attempting to prove that Obama and Candy were both wrong regarding the Rose Garden "act of terror" comments.
In a kind of hilarious mirror of the comments often seen here, predicting that Romney will be declared the winner so long as he doesn't do X (eg, shit himself), the guy currently on air just proclaimed that obviously Obama did better this time, because Obama could not have done worse than his first debate without cross dressing, shooting an audience member in the face, and then some third thing I didn't quite catch that sounded like it involved strangling a child. Because all three of those are equivalently bad.
posted by jermsplan at 2:21 PM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
My take away after several weeks of this is that I honestly just can not understand the anger these people must have in them. They sound absolutely furious today while attempting to prove that Obama and Candy were both wrong regarding the Rose Garden "act of terror" comments.
In a kind of hilarious mirror of the comments often seen here, predicting that Romney will be declared the winner so long as he doesn't do X (eg, shit himself), the guy currently on air just proclaimed that obviously Obama did better this time, because Obama could not have done worse than his first debate without cross dressing, shooting an audience member in the face, and then some third thing I didn't quite catch that sounded like it involved strangling a child. Because all three of those are equivalently bad.
posted by jermsplan at 2:21 PM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
So will the President semaphore out ACT OF TERROR when he talks about the attack in NYC that was thwarted? Or will the Romney camp start whining about the "suspicious timing" of the sting?
posted by robocop is bleeding at 2:22 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 2:22 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
The word pizza appears exactly five times, barring further discussion of pizza after I make this remark.
Does meta-discussion of your comment, not touching on italian food as such, count?
posted by Dr Dracator at 2:22 PM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
Does meta-discussion of your comment, not touching on italian food as such, count?
posted by Dr Dracator at 2:22 PM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
Just re-reading the transcript from last night, I think there's something really deceptive and important about the way Romney describes his tax "plan" (if you can call it that) the way it's come up in the debates. When he says he won't cut taxes for the wealthy, he always phrases it according to the "share" paid by high-income people. In the first debate he said, "I'm not going to reduce the share of taxes paid by high-income people." I was really confused the first time I heard it, and I think it tripped up Obama, too, which is why he stumbled on the tax issue in the first debate. Last night Romney clarified a little by saying, "The top 5 percent will continue to pay 60 percent, as they do today. I'm not looking to cut taxes for wealthy people."
He's allowed people to think that what he means is that he'll cut tax rates for the wealthy but that the cuts will be offset by eliminating or capping some credits and deductions, which people have rightly attacked as a fantasy or bad arithmetic. But the more I hear it, the more I suspect that maybe what he means is that he actually would plan to cut tax rates for the wealthy, even after accounting for the lost deductions, but that according to some arcane calculus, under his plan the top 5% will continue to contribute the same 60% "share" because they'll be paying lower taxes on a higher income.
I imagine this has already been hashed out more thoroughly somewhere, but if I'm understanding that right, it's actually a terrifying proposal and way to measure tax policy, because (as has been pointed out many times before), the reason the rich contribute such a large overall "share" of tax revenue is that they control an incredibly large portion of the wealth. In other words, Romney's plan may be to tip the scales even further, which is no surprise. What he's saying now about not changing the total "share" of taxes could be seen in retrospect to be technically correct (the best kind of correct!) but incredibly misleading.
posted by albrecht at 2:22 PM on October 17, 2012 [14 favorites]
He's allowed people to think that what he means is that he'll cut tax rates for the wealthy but that the cuts will be offset by eliminating or capping some credits and deductions, which people have rightly attacked as a fantasy or bad arithmetic. But the more I hear it, the more I suspect that maybe what he means is that he actually would plan to cut tax rates for the wealthy, even after accounting for the lost deductions, but that according to some arcane calculus, under his plan the top 5% will continue to contribute the same 60% "share" because they'll be paying lower taxes on a higher income.
I imagine this has already been hashed out more thoroughly somewhere, but if I'm understanding that right, it's actually a terrifying proposal and way to measure tax policy, because (as has been pointed out many times before), the reason the rich contribute such a large overall "share" of tax revenue is that they control an incredibly large portion of the wealth. In other words, Romney's plan may be to tip the scales even further, which is no surprise. What he's saying now about not changing the total "share" of taxes could be seen in retrospect to be technically correct (the best kind of correct!) but incredibly misleading.
posted by albrecht at 2:22 PM on October 17, 2012 [14 favorites]
did someone say binders full of women?
posted by mrgrimm at 2:25 PM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by mrgrimm at 2:25 PM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
Republicans Try To Seize Control Of The Word ‘Binder’ Following Debate
posted by Room 641-A at 2:29 PM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
The press release for the conference call advertised that RNC chair Reince Priebus and Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R-NH) would “talk about Obama’s empty binder second term agenda.” They were true to their word.Unlike Mitt Romney, whose binder is full. Of women. Wait.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:29 PM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
albrecht - I think you're right, that's the voodoo economics bit. Everyone pays a lower rate, but with fewer deductions and (magically) higher income, then it's revenue neutral.
It ignores the fact that middle and lower class incomes have flatlined in real terms for 20 years, while higher income people have seen enormous gains. So, yes, it is scary because the only way the math works is if the rich get enormously richer.
And from Romney's perspective, of course, that's a feature, not a bug.
posted by Rumple at 2:31 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
It ignores the fact that middle and lower class incomes have flatlined in real terms for 20 years, while higher income people have seen enormous gains. So, yes, it is scary because the only way the math works is if the rich get enormously richer.
And from Romney's perspective, of course, that's a feature, not a bug.
posted by Rumple at 2:31 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
the only way the math works is if the rich get enormously richer.
History suggests that, at some tipping point, humanity has a standard way of correcting massive income inequity. Its bloody and awful. Apparently the "fuck you, I've got mine" credo is also aimed at the descendents of the very wealthy.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:35 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
History suggests that, at some tipping point, humanity has a standard way of correcting massive income inequity. Its bloody and awful. Apparently the "fuck you, I've got mine" credo is also aimed at the descendents of the very wealthy.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:35 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
So, um, here's Obama and Romney if they switched hair with their wives.
posted by Skygazer at 2:43 PM on October 17, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by Skygazer at 2:43 PM on October 17, 2012 [8 favorites]
Yes, yes. Try now.
posted by Skygazer at 2:46 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Skygazer at 2:46 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
It's also really insidious that Romney tries to use the recession as a way to paint Obama as having increased taxes on the middle class. From last night:
posted by albrecht at 2:47 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Middle- income Americans have seen their income come down by $4,300. This is a -- this is a tax in and of itself. I'll call it the economy tax.So, if my understanding of his plan is correct, lower incomes for middle class people while their tax rates have actually decreased = a tax increase, but higher incomes for the wealthy while their tax rates go down =/= a tax cut.
posted by albrecht at 2:47 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Robert Plant and James Brown?
posted by Golden Eternity at 2:47 PM on October 17, 2012
posted by Golden Eternity at 2:47 PM on October 17, 2012
Reince Priebus = Rinsen Repeatus?
posted by kirkaracha at 2:51 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by kirkaracha at 2:51 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Reince Priebus = Rinsen Repeatus?
No, Reince Priebus is a character with amnesia; after his memories are restored you learn that he's actually the tyrannical Prince Riebus. It was one of the hokier plot elements of the Castlevania series.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 3:02 PM on October 17, 2012 [8 favorites]
No, Reince Priebus is a character with amnesia; after his memories are restored you learn that he's actually the tyrannical Prince Riebus. It was one of the hokier plot elements of the Castlevania series.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 3:02 PM on October 17, 2012 [8 favorites]
About that claim by Romney that automatic weapons are illegal....
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:05 PM on October 17, 2012 [10 favorites]
What the hell is Romney talking about? Of course it's legal to have automatic weapons in this country. And on top of that, we get yet another Etch-a-Sketch: Romney favored assault weapons bans when he was a governor of a liberal state, which made "certain guns illegal."Things I learned at a Romeny Debate Watching Party in Las Vegas, Nevada
So a lie on a top of a falsehood.
If I learned anything from watching last night’s presidential debate in a room full of Mitt Romney supporters, it’s that President Obama cannot speak English, wanted Americans in Benghazi to die, hopes America will be taken over by the Islamic world, carries a literal Communist Party card, and should be sent back to Mexico.Naturally there were remarks on Candy Crowley's appearance because god forbid a woman should appear on your TV screen who is less than 100% fuckable as rated by any knucklehead. Also, I hate to break it to you but not only is the President and all of his family card-carrying communists, he is also Islamic and has the ring-inscription to prove it.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:05 PM on October 17, 2012 [10 favorites]
Step 1: Make the US energy independent.
That's right, I'm gonna make cars that run on stupid.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 3:10 PM on October 17, 2012 [14 favorites]
That's right, I'm gonna make cars that run on stupid.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 3:10 PM on October 17, 2012 [14 favorites]
Naturally there were remarks on Candy Crowley's appearance because god forbid a woman should appear on your TV screen who is less than 100% fuckable as rated by any knucklehead.
Hey, were any such comments in this thread? I'd notice any, just curious.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:13 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Hey, were any such comments in this thread? I'd notice any, just curious.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:13 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
I read it the same way you did, albrecht.
I think part of the rationale for saying "The top 5 percent will continue to pay 60 percent, as they do today." is to confuse some people into thinking that this is the effective tax rate, or the marginal tax rate, or whatever, rather than the share of income taxes that the top 5% pay.
The hidden message, spoken to the same audience as his 47% remarks, was that he was going to cut taxes for the top 5%, raise taxes for the middle class, but an increase in income inequality will mean the top 5% still pay 60% of income tax collected.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 3:13 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
I think part of the rationale for saying "The top 5 percent will continue to pay 60 percent, as they do today." is to confuse some people into thinking that this is the effective tax rate, or the marginal tax rate, or whatever, rather than the share of income taxes that the top 5% pay.
The hidden message, spoken to the same audience as his 47% remarks, was that he was going to cut taxes for the top 5%, raise taxes for the middle class, but an increase in income inequality will mean the top 5% still pay 60% of income tax collected.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 3:13 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Hey, were any such comments in this thread? I'd notice any, just curious.
I thought her hair looked great, but I don't know if that's the same thing.
posted by winna at 3:17 PM on October 17, 2012
I thought her hair looked great, but I don't know if that's the same thing.
posted by winna at 3:17 PM on October 17, 2012
Secret Life of Gravy: "Naturally there were remarks on Candy Crowley's appearance because god forbid a woman should appear on your TV screen who is less than 100% fuckable as rated by any knucklehead."
I saw a few references to "John Candy Crowley" last night. Charming.
posted by brundlefly at 3:19 PM on October 17, 2012
I saw a few references to "John Candy Crowley" last night. Charming.
posted by brundlefly at 3:19 PM on October 17, 2012
Oh, not on MetaFilter, to be clear.
posted by brundlefly at 3:19 PM on October 17, 2012
posted by brundlefly at 3:19 PM on October 17, 2012
Hey, were any such comments in this thread? I'd notice any, just curious.
No, I would have noticed.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:28 PM on October 17, 2012
No, I would have noticed.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:28 PM on October 17, 2012
Aside from someone liking her earrings.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:29 PM on October 17, 2012
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:29 PM on October 17, 2012
In Conference Call, Romney Urged Businesses To Tell Their Employees How to Vote
posted by zombieflanders at 3:30 PM on October 17, 2012
posted by zombieflanders at 3:30 PM on October 17, 2012
If I had known this thread existed last night, I probably would have been able to make it more than a few minutes into the debate. From reading this, I figure I turned the channel slightly before Obama began rocking. Sigh.
posted by JHarris at 3:32 PM on October 17, 2012
posted by JHarris at 3:32 PM on October 17, 2012
Not sure why we have to wring our hands over all the stupid shit said on the web.
That's the "meta" part.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:42 PM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
That's the "meta" part.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:42 PM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
I actually wish Obama hadn't called the attacks an "act of terror." Because that's a stupid, provocative phrase. But whether he said it or not, it's terrible for Romney to bring up its timing as being somehow indicative of Obama's thinking, like that somehow proves something.
posted by JHarris at 3:43 PM on October 17, 2012
posted by JHarris at 3:43 PM on October 17, 2012
The ABC’s of the Presidential Debate: From Awkward Laughter to Binders to Zingers
posted by homunculus at 3:43 PM on October 17, 2012
posted by homunculus at 3:43 PM on October 17, 2012
We knew the criticisms of Candy would happen and that regardless of what she looked like, they would be based on her looks. But despite that, it is really bumming me out today. Because I'm seeing people in my newsfeed who I would have assumed knew better participating in it. It's not just morons on Youtube and Tea Party people. Yuk.
Hey internet, stop attacking Candy Crowley's weight.
posted by triggerfinger at 3:45 PM on October 17, 2012
Hey internet, stop attacking Candy Crowley's weight.
posted by triggerfinger at 3:45 PM on October 17, 2012
ACT OF TERROR
It's worth pointing out that the insistence on calling anything and everything bad that happens "terror" is part and parcel of the worldview that continually wants to increase military spending, surveillance, the police state, xenophia, and all the rest.
The insistence on the label "terror" for every incident that happens, and the horror and indignation evinced if ever that magical word is omitted, is a big piece of this--and it's where the recent multi-week right-wing spazz-out over "Obama forgot to say the magic word" ultimately came from.
'Terrorism' the catch-all word that now justifies everything. It's the new 'communism'.
Really, we shouldn't buy into this. And an episode like this is where Obama wins a battle but the nation takes one more step towards losing its senses as we all nod and agree sagely that everything that happens should immediately be labelled 'terrorism' and the appropriately corresponding budget increases to the military and intelligence passed quite automatically.
We're all buying the right wing's framing of the issue--as usual.
posted by flug at 3:56 PM on October 17, 2012 [7 favorites]
It's worth pointing out that the insistence on calling anything and everything bad that happens "terror" is part and parcel of the worldview that continually wants to increase military spending, surveillance, the police state, xenophia, and all the rest.
The insistence on the label "terror" for every incident that happens, and the horror and indignation evinced if ever that magical word is omitted, is a big piece of this--and it's where the recent multi-week right-wing spazz-out over "Obama forgot to say the magic word" ultimately came from.
'Terrorism' the catch-all word that now justifies everything. It's the new 'communism'.
Really, we shouldn't buy into this. And an episode like this is where Obama wins a battle but the nation takes one more step towards losing its senses as we all nod and agree sagely that everything that happens should immediately be labelled 'terrorism' and the appropriately corresponding budget increases to the military and intelligence passed quite automatically.
We're all buying the right wing's framing of the issue--as usual.
posted by flug at 3:56 PM on October 17, 2012 [7 favorites]
So, um, here's Obama and Romney if they switched hair with their wives.
Ok, so it's hair-metal vs. funk.
posted by Slap*Happy at 3:56 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ok, so it's hair-metal vs. funk.
posted by Slap*Happy at 3:56 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Don’t Turn Off The Lights: The Most Frightening Moment Of The Obama-Romney Rumble
posted by homunculus at 4:07 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 4:07 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
I thought she was beautiful. But, then again, my opinion on her looks doesn't matter, and shouldn't. She did an excellent job.
But this is the heart of the matter, isn't it? A woman in the same position as a man gets berated for being a woman, and whether or not she can give men erections. Hell, even women get in on this shameful bullying.
This just angers me so much I have to stop here.
posted by Malice at 4:10 PM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
But this is the heart of the matter, isn't it? A woman in the same position as a man gets berated for being a woman, and whether or not she can give men erections. Hell, even women get in on this shameful bullying.
This just angers me so much I have to stop here.
posted by Malice at 4:10 PM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
Mod note: Hi folks, pruned that failed-satire derail by poster's request, carry on
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:12 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:12 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
2012's Incredible Disappearing Issue: Climate Change
posted by homunculus at 4:13 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 4:13 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Romney's latest etch-a-sketch on "self-deportation" in the debate (emphasis added):
posted by kirkaracha at 4:14 PM on October 17, 2012 [6 favorites]
And if they find that they can’t get the benefits here that they want and they can’t find the job they want, then they’ll make a decision to go a place where they have better opportunities."Better opportunities"?! Where are you going to find "better opportunities" than the land of motherfucking opportunity?! Romney's been criticizing Obama's supposedly insufficient enthusiasm for American exceptionalism all year and now he's saying someplace else can provide better opportunities?
posted by kirkaracha at 4:14 PM on October 17, 2012 [6 favorites]
Mittsogyny: Noun: The belief that women should be kept in binders.
posted by jeffburdges at 4:32 PM on October 17, 2012 [18 favorites]
posted by jeffburdges at 4:32 PM on October 17, 2012 [18 favorites]
Attacking Candy Crowley's weight is an effective admission of having lost the argument; it says more about the person making the insults.
posted by jaduncan at 4:41 PM on October 17, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by jaduncan at 4:41 PM on October 17, 2012 [8 favorites]
Mittsogyny: Noun: The belief that women should be kept in binders.
I've been cranky about this all day. Expanding an insufficiently diverse applicant pool is good policy; the problem is that (a) Mitt lied about the anecdote (b) this isn't really his policy (c) he said it in a weird way that people found funny, in part because of a creepy-to-me imagistic connection to violence against women.
The actual attack on Mitt shouldn't be that he said he requested binders full of women in the name of equity in the workplace; it's that this was a lie...
posted by gerryblog at 4:45 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
I've been cranky about this all day. Expanding an insufficiently diverse applicant pool is good policy; the problem is that (a) Mitt lied about the anecdote (b) this isn't really his policy (c) he said it in a weird way that people found funny, in part because of a creepy-to-me imagistic connection to violence against women.
The actual attack on Mitt shouldn't be that he said he requested binders full of women in the name of equity in the workplace; it's that this was a lie...
posted by gerryblog at 4:45 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
I maintain that it's pretty fucked up that Mitt Romney and his advisors don't network with enough qualified women to form a cabinet. But that's a criticism for like 99% of people in business/politics. Did Romney need binders full of male candidates? Or did they already have short lists of dudes they knew from around the way?
posted by muddgirl at 4:50 PM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 4:50 PM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
I'm waiting for the BDSM gear line based upon Romney's comment.
posted by jeffburdges at 4:51 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by jeffburdges at 4:51 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm waiting for the BDSM gear line based upon Romney's comment.
Binders, Deception, Serfs, Money?
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:55 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Binders, Deception, Serfs, Money?
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:55 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
> "Expanding an insufficiently diverse applicant pool is good policy".
Indeed it is. It also has nothing to do with pay inequities between employed men and employed women, which is the question he was asked. In fact, he never addressed that question, choosing instead to blather about how he would (magically) create so many jobs that employers would even be forced to hire woman-people.
His odd, tone-deaf wording is being used as a synecdoche for his odd, tone-deaf entire response. How would Romney address pay inequity? Apparently by giving everyone a binder full of women.
posted by kyrademon at 5:03 PM on October 17, 2012 [7 favorites]
Indeed it is. It also has nothing to do with pay inequities between employed men and employed women, which is the question he was asked. In fact, he never addressed that question, choosing instead to blather about how he would (magically) create so many jobs that employers would even be forced to hire woman-people.
His odd, tone-deaf wording is being used as a synecdoche for his odd, tone-deaf entire response. How would Romney address pay inequity? Apparently by giving everyone a binder full of women.
posted by kyrademon at 5:03 PM on October 17, 2012 [7 favorites]
Expanding an insufficiently diverse applicant pool is good policy
I work in a majorly male dominated fields, but I can easily come up women in my field I've worked with in the past who I would jump at the chance to work with again. If you are building a cabinet and just can't find any women who are qualified that says a lot about your limited interactions with women in the workplace.
posted by aspo at 5:04 PM on October 17, 2012 [8 favorites]
I work in a majorly male dominated fields, but I can easily come up women in my field I've worked with in the past who I would jump at the chance to work with again. If you are building a cabinet and just can't find any women who are qualified that says a lot about your limited interactions with women in the workplace.
posted by aspo at 5:04 PM on October 17, 2012 [8 favorites]
I'm gonna have to disagree with you there, gerryblog. Romney's answer wasn't reprehensible to me because it's a funny phrasing. It's that his staff apparently only found male candidates to be qualified, thereby reinforcing the very systemic bias that keeps the glass ceiling in place. It's that he thinks "women work for me" is an adequate answer for persistent gender wage inequities. It's that he doesn't think of women as people--"we went out and made a concerted effort to recruit capable women and try to attract them to our cabinet"--but rather as passive objects waiting to be condescendingly plucked out of obscurity--"gosh, can't we find some women around here?" It's that the story, even as told, smacks of an overriding concern with optics over substance. It's that flex time is only important to women, and only so they can go home and take care of their children. It's that he wants women to be able to take care of their families but doesn't want to give them health care or reproductive control. It's that he thinks the way to get women into the work force is to make the economy so good that companies will have no choice but to hire women, because they'll have run out of men.
That's just off the top of my head. The fact that he lied about it adds several more layers of fucked-up-ness to the whole thing--if it didn't happen at all, why did he think the fake story should start off with "we only found qualified men at first"?--but it was plenty repulsive to begin with. "Binder full of women" is an easy snark to make, a shorthand for everything else that was wrongheaded about his entire answer, but "inelegantly stated" doesn't even begin to cover his contempt for the opposite sex.
posted by Phire at 5:06 PM on October 17, 2012 [53 favorites]
That's just off the top of my head. The fact that he lied about it adds several more layers of fucked-up-ness to the whole thing--if it didn't happen at all, why did he think the fake story should start off with "we only found qualified men at first"?--but it was plenty repulsive to begin with. "Binder full of women" is an easy snark to make, a shorthand for everything else that was wrongheaded about his entire answer, but "inelegantly stated" doesn't even begin to cover his contempt for the opposite sex.
posted by Phire at 5:06 PM on October 17, 2012 [53 favorites]
I don't have anything useful to add on the larger issue of misogyny and attacks on a woman's weight, but on the issue of Candy Crowley, there are two points I'd like to make:
(1) On CNN, after the debate, Crowley was interviewed by four of her colleagues: Wolf Blitzer, Soledad O'Brien, Dana Bash, and Anderson Cooper. They all seemed rightly proud of the job she did, especially Blitzer, her colleague of many years. But whether they were sincere or not, Crowley was given her moment and her due respect for a job well done by her peers and work family. Random internet insults seems pretty trivial compared to that.
(2) As Chris Matthews said on Hardball last night, Crowley's real-time fact checking of Romney was an act of courage (what if she was wrong?) and will go down in television history. As much as Obama and Romney were running off a script, that moment by Crowley was truly spontaneous. She had a split second to make the call and she nailed it. Regardless of who wins the election, though probably more so if it's Obama, that clip is going to be replayed for years to come.
The haters can hate all they want, Crowley is leaving them in the dust.
posted by Bokmakierie at 5:11 PM on October 17, 2012 [24 favorites]
(1) On CNN, after the debate, Crowley was interviewed by four of her colleagues: Wolf Blitzer, Soledad O'Brien, Dana Bash, and Anderson Cooper. They all seemed rightly proud of the job she did, especially Blitzer, her colleague of many years. But whether they were sincere or not, Crowley was given her moment and her due respect for a job well done by her peers and work family. Random internet insults seems pretty trivial compared to that.
(2) As Chris Matthews said on Hardball last night, Crowley's real-time fact checking of Romney was an act of courage (what if she was wrong?) and will go down in television history. As much as Obama and Romney were running off a script, that moment by Crowley was truly spontaneous. She had a split second to make the call and she nailed it. Regardless of who wins the election, though probably more so if it's Obama, that clip is going to be replayed for years to come.
The haters can hate all they want, Crowley is leaving them in the dust.
posted by Bokmakierie at 5:11 PM on October 17, 2012 [24 favorites]
^ The beginnings of addressing climate change are implicit in Obama's 'jobs for the future', and 'clean/renewable energy technologies' jargon; this stuff's not going to happen overnight and will need dedicated Greens politically driving the change. Obama doesn't want to be too explicit, he'll lose the election.
Obama's not a skeptic, but nor is he naturally a Green.
Doubt the Democrats are going to get too serious about climate change, anyway, while there's fracking to be done. Besides: China's emissions need controlling first.
A cynic would say there's the little matter of untouched oil around the Senkaku Islands that still needs sorting, before any of us gets too serious about a Green Planet, and serious, costly, conservation. It's not cheap, and we all have to co-operate. Much like the economy, it's a global problem, too.
The US is late to the party. How strong are the US Greens?
posted by de at 5:13 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Obama's not a skeptic, but nor is he naturally a Green.
Doubt the Democrats are going to get too serious about climate change, anyway, while there's fracking to be done. Besides: China's emissions need controlling first.
A cynic would say there's the little matter of untouched oil around the Senkaku Islands that still needs sorting, before any of us gets too serious about a Green Planet, and serious, costly, conservation. It's not cheap, and we all have to co-operate. Much like the economy, it's a global problem, too.
The US is late to the party. How strong are the US Greens?
posted by de at 5:13 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
The US is late to the party. How strong are the US Greens?
Not strong enough to escape from the chairs they were shackled to for 8 hours for trying to get in to the debate.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:19 PM on October 17, 2012 [6 favorites]
Not strong enough to escape from the chairs they were shackled to for 8 hours for trying to get in to the debate.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:19 PM on October 17, 2012 [6 favorites]
How strong are the US Greens?
About as strong as the Cleveland Browns.
which is not very strong.
posted by saturday_morning at 5:19 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
About as strong as the Cleveland Browns.
which is not very strong.
posted by saturday_morning at 5:19 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Phire (and everyone), thanks for that great response. I see what you mean and why the remark scans differently for you than it did for me.
I was taking him at his word that "all the applicants seemed to be men." (This would be, presumably, before the determination of "qualified.") In that situation, regardless of the general fucked-uppedness of Mitt Romney, and the fact that we're trying to parse the terms of something that's a lie to begin with, it *is* appropriate to try to expand the applicant pool: "And — and so we — we took a concerted effort to go out and find women who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become members of our cabinet. I went to a number of women's groups and said, can you help us find folks? And I brought us whole binders full of — of women." That's good policy, I think; I wish that wasn't being lost in the mockery.
posted by gerryblog at 5:21 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
I was taking him at his word that "all the applicants seemed to be men." (This would be, presumably, before the determination of "qualified.") In that situation, regardless of the general fucked-uppedness of Mitt Romney, and the fact that we're trying to parse the terms of something that's a lie to begin with, it *is* appropriate to try to expand the applicant pool: "And — and so we — we took a concerted effort to go out and find women who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become members of our cabinet. I went to a number of women's groups and said, can you help us find folks? And I brought us whole binders full of — of women." That's good policy, I think; I wish that wasn't being lost in the mockery.
posted by gerryblog at 5:21 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
smacks of an overriding concern with optics over substance
For Pete's sake, I can't have only men in here when I'm running for office!
posted by jaduncan at 5:21 PM on October 17, 2012
For Pete's sake, I can't have only men in here when I'm running for office!
posted by jaduncan at 5:21 PM on October 17, 2012
For Pete's sake, I can't have only men in here when I'm running for office!
Right. Just like "I can't have illegals working on my house when I'm running for office!"
Romney: Style over Substance.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:28 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Right. Just like "I can't have illegals working on my house when I'm running for office!"
Romney: Style over Substance.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:28 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Serious question: Was that intended to be a dogwhistle about inner city black people?
I think it's basically the same approach Paul Ryan took when he was asked about gun control and instead talked about inner city crime (and then ended the interview when asked if his solution was tax cuts). The idea is that guns are not the problem, morals are the problem, and if people had better morals (which it is not the business of government to instil, but rather of families, churches, civic groups and volunteer organizations) then they would not commit crimes with guns, and thus ownership of guns would not be a problem.
posted by running order squabble fest at 5:29 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
I think it's basically the same approach Paul Ryan took when he was asked about gun control and instead talked about inner city crime (and then ended the interview when asked if his solution was tax cuts). The idea is that guns are not the problem, morals are the problem, and if people had better morals (which it is not the business of government to instil, but rather of families, churches, civic groups and volunteer organizations) then they would not commit crimes with guns, and thus ownership of guns would not be a problem.
posted by running order squabble fest at 5:29 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
I think it's basically the same approach Paul Ryan took when he was asked about gun control and instead talked about inner city crime (and then ended the interview when asked if his solution was tax cuts). The idea is that guns are not the problem, morals are the problem, and if people had better morals (which it is not the business of government to instil, but rather of families, churches, civic groups and volunteer organizations) then they would not commit crimes with guns, and thus
"...thus it is THEIR FAULT, and not something you can criticise us for."
posted by jaduncan at 5:31 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
"...thus it is THEIR FAULT, and not something you can criticise us for."
posted by jaduncan at 5:31 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Barry did a great job, I'm very proud of him, but ya know, his "showing up" all of a sudden could have been planned. He's a canny mofo. Not that it even matters. Huge "Way to Kick Ass, Barry!" from me.
What matters is that Romney totally exposes his own self as a racist, sexist, classist asshole willing to do ANYTHING to promote and expand the corporate hold on the U.S. In my opinion and in that frame, he's a traitor, robber baron and Duke of Douchebaggery. An enemy to all who love being American and what it means to be American.
While It will be a huge win if Obama is reelected, the fight isn't over. The GOP and it's religious, corporate and warhawk factions are dead set on taking the U.S. back to the middle ages.
High rates of illiteracy, death for being poor (no healthcare) and too many babies to support (forget about abortion, how about some reasonable sex-ed and some condoms.).
posted by snsranch at 5:33 PM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
What matters is that Romney totally exposes his own self as a racist, sexist, classist asshole willing to do ANYTHING to promote and expand the corporate hold on the U.S. In my opinion and in that frame, he's a traitor, robber baron and Duke of Douchebaggery. An enemy to all who love being American and what it means to be American.
While It will be a huge win if Obama is reelected, the fight isn't over. The GOP and it's religious, corporate and warhawk factions are dead set on taking the U.S. back to the middle ages.
High rates of illiteracy, death for being poor (no healthcare) and too many babies to support (forget about abortion, how about some reasonable sex-ed and some condoms.).
posted by snsranch at 5:33 PM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
I know there are so many (and so many easier) comments in the debate to discuss/mock/vent about, but I can't believe how little attention Mitt's magic, pick-a-number-any-number plan for tax cuts has received.
I mean seriously, the one time he actually gave a specific figure about what he was going to do, it was plucked from thin air.
"And so, in terms of bringing down deductions, one way of doing that would be say everybody gets — I’ll pick a number — $25,000 of deductions and credits, and you can decide which ones to use. Your home mortgage interest deduction, charity, child tax credit, and so forth, you can use those as part of filling that bucket, if you will, of deductions."
I'll pick a number.
Really. Is that today's number? Is that the official after-the-election number. Is that a number that's decided by a lottery draw? Of is this a real number that's outlined in a tax plan and written down somewhere?
I'll admit that living north of the border (or overseas according to the GOP) I haven't read through the fine print of all the campaign plans, but somehow I would have thought that had this been a real number detailed in some plan somewhere, Romney wouldn't have had to conjure it out of thin air.
And nobody is calling him on that. That's one of the points in the debate where I was really expecting Obama to call him on it point blank, but nothing happened. It was just glossed over and forgotten about.
posted by sardonyx at 5:35 PM on October 17, 2012 [13 favorites]
I mean seriously, the one time he actually gave a specific figure about what he was going to do, it was plucked from thin air.
"And so, in terms of bringing down deductions, one way of doing that would be say everybody gets — I’ll pick a number — $25,000 of deductions and credits, and you can decide which ones to use. Your home mortgage interest deduction, charity, child tax credit, and so forth, you can use those as part of filling that bucket, if you will, of deductions."
I'll pick a number.
Really. Is that today's number? Is that the official after-the-election number. Is that a number that's decided by a lottery draw? Of is this a real number that's outlined in a tax plan and written down somewhere?
I'll admit that living north of the border (or overseas according to the GOP) I haven't read through the fine print of all the campaign plans, but somehow I would have thought that had this been a real number detailed in some plan somewhere, Romney wouldn't have had to conjure it out of thin air.
And nobody is calling him on that. That's one of the points in the debate where I was really expecting Obama to call him on it point blank, but nothing happened. It was just glossed over and forgotten about.
posted by sardonyx at 5:35 PM on October 17, 2012 [13 favorites]
One more quick point - you don't *apply* for a cabinet level post in state government. There's no want ad. You get asked. It's a recruitment process, not an application process.
That's why there's all the objections to the statement that there were no women in the initial pool. That doesn't mean no women applied. It means Romney's staff - the staff he chose and surrounded himself with - COULD NOT THINK OF any qualified women. And couldn't find any without help.
posted by kyrademon at 5:38 PM on October 17, 2012 [28 favorites]
That's why there's all the objections to the statement that there were no women in the initial pool. That doesn't mean no women applied. It means Romney's staff - the staff he chose and surrounded himself with - COULD NOT THINK OF any qualified women. And couldn't find any without help.
posted by kyrademon at 5:38 PM on October 17, 2012 [28 favorites]
Good point, he said the same "I'll pick a number" line in the last debate aswell and it proves he hasn't got a serious analysis to show the tax plan can be revenue neutral.
posted by TwoWordReview at 5:39 PM on October 17, 2012
posted by TwoWordReview at 5:39 PM on October 17, 2012
(And yes, I know the story is inaccurate, but that only means that scenario is his IDEAL FANTASY VERSION of how it happened.)
posted by kyrademon at 5:40 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by kyrademon at 5:40 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'll admit that living north of the border (or overseas according to the GOP) I haven't read through the fine print of all the campaign plans, but somehow I would have thought that had this been a real number detailed in some plan somewhere, Romney wouldn't have had to conjure it out of thin air.
Romney's actually thrown out several numbers. First he said $17,000. Then he said $50,000. Yes, it's a complete travesty that he claims to have a tax 'policy' without any real policy behind it. But I suspect that only policy wonks like me care about that sort of thing, and the pool of undecided policy wonks must be really small.
posted by muddgirl at 5:47 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Romney's actually thrown out several numbers. First he said $17,000. Then he said $50,000. Yes, it's a complete travesty that he claims to have a tax 'policy' without any real policy behind it. But I suspect that only policy wonks like me care about that sort of thing, and the pool of undecided policy wonks must be really small.
posted by muddgirl at 5:47 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
The other moment that hasn't gotten nearly enough attention was when Romney got all up in Obama's face about his pension, and accused Obama of also having investments in the Cayman Islands - WTF was that all about? It was such a non sequitur that I can't even remember which question Romney was answering when he said it. I'm really surprised people aren't talking about that exchange more, because it was completely insane.
posted by dialetheia at 5:53 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by dialetheia at 5:53 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
How strong are the US Greens?
In the late 90's I considered myself a Green (yes yes I voted for Nader in '00 but in a state where that didn't matter), and I would still consider myself a supporter of their platform and ideals, I like a lot about them in general, I tend to prefer the company of folks who would fall in those demographics. But... after '00 I no longer can support them on a national level. I don't lay all the blame for that on Nader, nor on the SCOTUS. It was a failure that had multiple causes. But, enough of the cause can be laid at Nader's and by extension, The Green's feet that made me seriously reevaluate national voting. That election turned me from "always vote your ideals" to a "vote for the candidate closest to your ideals that might win". In essence vote the least worst candidate with a shot.
The Greens are fantastic, but they do not stand a shot on the national stage without energizing locally nationwide, something I do not really see happening in this country which is basically conservative on many issues. Globally compared, our "liberal" party is center/center-left/center-right depending on who you talk to and what the issue is, but by no means is it "Left". Even then it has to fight tooth and nail to win elections. A true "left" party? Not a friggen chance nationally. Gotta be built on city councils, school boards, state legislatures and so on, and I don't see any significant push for that. Indeed there is a major push in the opposite direction right now.
So, How strong are the US Greens? They are not, and won't be under their current strategy.
posted by edgeways at 5:55 PM on October 17, 2012 [10 favorites]
In the late 90's I considered myself a Green (yes yes I voted for Nader in '00 but in a state where that didn't matter), and I would still consider myself a supporter of their platform and ideals, I like a lot about them in general, I tend to prefer the company of folks who would fall in those demographics. But... after '00 I no longer can support them on a national level. I don't lay all the blame for that on Nader, nor on the SCOTUS. It was a failure that had multiple causes. But, enough of the cause can be laid at Nader's and by extension, The Green's feet that made me seriously reevaluate national voting. That election turned me from "always vote your ideals" to a "vote for the candidate closest to your ideals that might win". In essence vote the least worst candidate with a shot.
The Greens are fantastic, but they do not stand a shot on the national stage without energizing locally nationwide, something I do not really see happening in this country which is basically conservative on many issues. Globally compared, our "liberal" party is center/center-left/center-right depending on who you talk to and what the issue is, but by no means is it "Left". Even then it has to fight tooth and nail to win elections. A true "left" party? Not a friggen chance nationally. Gotta be built on city councils, school boards, state legislatures and so on, and I don't see any significant push for that. Indeed there is a major push in the opposite direction right now.
So, How strong are the US Greens? They are not, and won't be under their current strategy.
posted by edgeways at 5:55 PM on October 17, 2012 [10 favorites]
I realize I may be in the minority, but I get so frustrated when politicians (and newscasters for that matter) downplay and underplay details. "Well it's really too complicated to explain--the average person has a hard time understanding the details...." As one of the average people watching I want those figures. I want to know the numbers and have a chance to dig through the details.
Okay, on the sliding voter scale I fall much closer to the policy wonk end than I do the don't-follow-politics end, but still, I really do wish there was more actual detail and substance available. Yes, I know in this day and age that amounts to dreaming for a pony that can cut a cow, win the Derby, and be victorious at three-day eventing all at the same time, but that's what I want.
posted by sardonyx at 5:56 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Okay, on the sliding voter scale I fall much closer to the policy wonk end than I do the don't-follow-politics end, but still, I really do wish there was more actual detail and substance available. Yes, I know in this day and age that amounts to dreaming for a pony that can cut a cow, win the Derby, and be victorious at three-day eventing all at the same time, but that's what I want.
posted by sardonyx at 5:56 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
accused Obama of also having investments in the Cayman Islands - WTF was that all about?
He was trying to draw equivalencies between Romney's huge offshore accounts and anyone who has a mutual fund having some investments in the Caymans and/or China and/or wherever else. It was super specious and I'm surprised more people didn't go after it also.
posted by jessamyn at 5:56 PM on October 17, 2012 [6 favorites]
He was trying to draw equivalencies between Romney's huge offshore accounts and anyone who has a mutual fund having some investments in the Caymans and/or China and/or wherever else. It was super specious and I'm surprised more people didn't go after it also.
posted by jessamyn at 5:56 PM on October 17, 2012 [6 favorites]
You're absolutely right, dialetheia. That was a very strange moment that could have done with some clarification.
posted by sardonyx at 5:57 PM on October 17, 2012
posted by sardonyx at 5:57 PM on October 17, 2012
I honestly just can not understand the anger these people must have in them.
That's what I keep coming back to. I understand different philosophies of government. I understand disagreeing and being really concerned. I understand being afraid of the results of certain policy choices. But I really do not understand the real, emotional, spittle-flying vitriol and anger that I hear on call-in shows and see on certain TV channels and occasionally encounter in public. I think that some of the right-wing media outlets have basically gotten people addicted to their anger - there's an incredible endorphin response going on, or something.
I wish we could really start calling it for what it is. THere's reasonable disagreement, and then there's using politics as your excuse to indulge in truly nasty, bullying behavior. It's downright ugly.
one way of doing that would be say everybody gets — I’ll pick a number — $25,000 of deductions and credits
Not only is the vagueness and shifting targets fishy completely, but I think he's casting about for a number that doesn't create a really negative reaction. I mean, who has $25,000 in deductions? Not that many people. That might be a few years' worth of really good deductions in a lot of middle class households. Geez, it's more than a lot of people even make in a year. But he's got to do the "oh, let's see, hypothetically...." act because as soon as he names an actual number, people get out their calculators and start figuring, and that never works out well for them. It looks like his team has really decided that vagueness is the winning strategy - he can run on 'values' and generics and whiteness and conservatism and other attributes, because low-information voters can't track the tax issue anyway, and swing voters who do track would be warned off by specifics, and his base thinks it's all awesome regardless. So I will be surprised if he actually puts forward a concrete plan of any kind.
Obama was right to slam him on the "one point plan" thing last night, and he should keep doing that. It's sticky - 1 point, 1 percent, this guy is working on behalf of the rich.
posted by Miko at 6:00 PM on October 17, 2012 [7 favorites]
That's what I keep coming back to. I understand different philosophies of government. I understand disagreeing and being really concerned. I understand being afraid of the results of certain policy choices. But I really do not understand the real, emotional, spittle-flying vitriol and anger that I hear on call-in shows and see on certain TV channels and occasionally encounter in public. I think that some of the right-wing media outlets have basically gotten people addicted to their anger - there's an incredible endorphin response going on, or something.
I wish we could really start calling it for what it is. THere's reasonable disagreement, and then there's using politics as your excuse to indulge in truly nasty, bullying behavior. It's downright ugly.
one way of doing that would be say everybody gets — I’ll pick a number — $25,000 of deductions and credits
Not only is the vagueness and shifting targets fishy completely, but I think he's casting about for a number that doesn't create a really negative reaction. I mean, who has $25,000 in deductions? Not that many people. That might be a few years' worth of really good deductions in a lot of middle class households. Geez, it's more than a lot of people even make in a year. But he's got to do the "oh, let's see, hypothetically...." act because as soon as he names an actual number, people get out their calculators and start figuring, and that never works out well for them. It looks like his team has really decided that vagueness is the winning strategy - he can run on 'values' and generics and whiteness and conservatism and other attributes, because low-information voters can't track the tax issue anyway, and swing voters who do track would be warned off by specifics, and his base thinks it's all awesome regardless. So I will be surprised if he actually puts forward a concrete plan of any kind.
Obama was right to slam him on the "one point plan" thing last night, and he should keep doing that. It's sticky - 1 point, 1 percent, this guy is working on behalf of the rich.
posted by Miko at 6:00 PM on October 17, 2012 [7 favorites]
Inside Obama’s (Tiny) Caymans Investment
posted by Golden Eternity at 6:01 PM on October 17, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by Golden Eternity at 6:01 PM on October 17, 2012 [7 favorites]
One thing for sure, Romney will be completely unhinged in the 3rd debate. I'm expecting more interrupting, more fabricating, and him going all out to loudly call the president a liar at every possible opportunity. He definitely seems like the type to let his wounded ego get in the way of clear-headed campaign strategy.
I'm guessing "wanna bet $10,000" Mitt will be in full effect next week.
posted by billyfleetwood at 6:03 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm guessing "wanna bet $10,000" Mitt will be in full effect next week.
posted by billyfleetwood at 6:03 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
The thing that kills me most, post-debate, is that I realized this afternoon that what drives my absolute hatred of Mitt Romney is that he's already here. Mitt's not a new kind of politician who can work with Washington; he's the khaki-bound craphound going out to PJ O'Pootertoots at night and trying to bang the hostess.
Mitt's the douche from Sales.
He's the creepy dude with that slow, subtle undercurrent of Jesus talk finding it's way into all of your water cooler interactions.
He's the bloviating asshat from Marketing talking about numbers and shares and without even a scratch of an actual idea of how to do something with the information.
Mitt's like every cubicle freak in corporate America got spot-welded into one frame and then set on Stun in front of a live television audience every two weeks.
I see idiots like him daily on my commute into work, sitting next to me at the office, and trying to party in the city I live in. The guys that talk to the breasts of the women in the office about "how they can improve their performance" in our team meetings.
Now one of these tools thinks because they figured out the Charts feature in Excel that they can run the country?
Mitt can be found in every suburb in the land, and for a long damn time. And THAT'S what makes me GO ALL CAPS UP IN HERE.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:04 PM on October 17, 2012 [29 favorites]
Mitt's the douche from Sales.
He's the creepy dude with that slow, subtle undercurrent of Jesus talk finding it's way into all of your water cooler interactions.
He's the bloviating asshat from Marketing talking about numbers and shares and without even a scratch of an actual idea of how to do something with the information.
Mitt's like every cubicle freak in corporate America got spot-welded into one frame and then set on Stun in front of a live television audience every two weeks.
I see idiots like him daily on my commute into work, sitting next to me at the office, and trying to party in the city I live in. The guys that talk to the breasts of the women in the office about "how they can improve their performance" in our team meetings.
Now one of these tools thinks because they figured out the Charts feature in Excel that they can run the country?
Mitt can be found in every suburb in the land, and for a long damn time. And THAT'S what makes me GO ALL CAPS UP IN HERE.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:04 PM on October 17, 2012 [29 favorites]
Good point, he said the same "I'll pick a number" line in the last debate aswell and it proves he hasn't got a serious analysis to show the tax plan can be revenue neutral.
And the fact that Ryan referred to the Kennedy administration as a time when their ideas "worked" means they are probably counting on massive tax-cut induced revenue growth to make the cuts "revenue neutral," which is probably bs.
posted by Golden Eternity at 6:05 PM on October 17, 2012
And the fact that Ryan referred to the Kennedy administration as a time when their ideas "worked" means they are probably counting on massive tax-cut induced revenue growth to make the cuts "revenue neutral," which is probably bs.
posted by Golden Eternity at 6:05 PM on October 17, 2012
An interesting comment from the comment section on that WSJ Cayman Islands (via golden eternity) story:
8:05 pm October 17, 2012posted by Skygazer at 6:13 PM on October 17, 2012 [17 favorites]
TRANSFER PRICING EXPERT (CRIMINAL LEGALIZED TAX EVASION EXPERT) wrote :
I once worked at one of the largest tax/accounting consultancies in America (and the world). Billionaires and corporations use something called TRANSFER PRICING to move money offshore.
“Investment” is not the right word, folks. The US entity sells its own name to its Cayman Islands subsidiary. Then, the Cayman Islands subsidiary turns around and charges the US entity a license fee (which can be the ENTIRE TAXABLE PROFIT of the company) to use that name.
It’s basically one of the MANY nonsense loopholes written into law by Billionaires and Corporations and used by them to move money offshore – leaving the lower 99.9 percentile with the tax burden.
So, Romney’s America is a place where once you earn enough wealth, you get to be in a special club that hides profits and gets away with it.
If you are a doctor, lawyer, teacher, farmer or factory worker, you’ll go to jail for that kind of scheme.
We all know that Romney has money out there in the Caymans. He’s just afraid that America will start rioting if Americans actually figure out how crazy these schemes are, and that they were made to be legal.
If Romney did this 20 years ago, he’d be in jail.
I want to know the numbers and have a chance to dig through the details.
You might have already seen this but here's Dylan Matthews of WonkBlog running the numbers on Romney's cap on deductions plan:
Who wins under Mitt Romney’s cap plan, in one chart
posted by Bokmakierie at 6:14 PM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
You might have already seen this but here's Dylan Matthews of WonkBlog running the numbers on Romney's cap on deductions plan:
Who wins under Mitt Romney’s cap plan, in one chart
posted by Bokmakierie at 6:14 PM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
Am I the only one disturbed by my own visceral reaction to Governor Romney and the GOP in general these days? It makes me seethe to hear him or David Brooks talk him up. I read the thread here instead of watching the debate because I would get too mad. It's a bad feeling.
posted by shothotbot at 6:20 PM on October 17, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by shothotbot at 6:20 PM on October 17, 2012 [9 favorites]
Skygazer: I mentioned transfer-pricing offhand in the other debate thread.
This is relevant because a LOT of companies have money offshore, and Romney wants to drop capital gains taxes. The result would be if he tried his plan for even one year, it's an opportunity for many companies/individuals to repatriate cash to the US for free. It's a way to pay an effective tax rate of 0% (since the company's cash is in a corporation in a foreign island with a 0% tax rate) if you structure it correctly.
It's obviously not sustainable, but if he does it for even one year, the result would be a tax holiday for multinational corporations and billionaires to be paying 0% taxes on all the money they've been making over these years. They'll be killing future tax receipts for a generation.
posted by amuseDetachment at 6:27 PM on October 17, 2012 [6 favorites]
This is relevant because a LOT of companies have money offshore, and Romney wants to drop capital gains taxes. The result would be if he tried his plan for even one year, it's an opportunity for many companies/individuals to repatriate cash to the US for free. It's a way to pay an effective tax rate of 0% (since the company's cash is in a corporation in a foreign island with a 0% tax rate) if you structure it correctly.
It's obviously not sustainable, but if he does it for even one year, the result would be a tax holiday for multinational corporations and billionaires to be paying 0% taxes on all the money they've been making over these years. They'll be killing future tax receipts for a generation.
posted by amuseDetachment at 6:27 PM on October 17, 2012 [6 favorites]
when Romney got all up in Obama's face about his pension, and accused Obama of also having investments in the Cayman Islands - WTF was that all about?
Yeah, I thought it honestly sounded like he had gotten stuck on repeat. Like C3PO in need of an oil change.
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:28 PM on October 17, 2012
Yeah, I thought it honestly sounded like he had gotten stuck on repeat. Like C3PO in need of an oil change.
posted by jetlagaddict at 6:28 PM on October 17, 2012
Someone on my FB list mentioned an interesting point about the Binders of Women comment. He (my FB friend, not Romney presumably) was talking about the "bad old days" of Mormonism and the polygamist lifestyle, which relied on excess of women to marry, casting out young males into the world... and literal books of young girls to be married off.
Now, I am not going to be so uncharitable as to say that is what Romney was referring to, even subconsciously, but it is an interesting synchronicity of form involving the history of Mormonism and a current public figure of Mormonism.
Books of young women/Binders of women.
posted by edgeways at 6:28 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Now, I am not going to be so uncharitable as to say that is what Romney was referring to, even subconsciously, but it is an interesting synchronicity of form involving the history of Mormonism and a current public figure of Mormonism.
Books of young women/Binders of women.
posted by edgeways at 6:28 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Chart showing breakdown of sources of public debt as a share of GDP from 2001 to 2019 Projected.
From the Washington Post article The Second Presidential Debate in Graphs.
posted by Babblesort at 6:30 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
From the Washington Post article The Second Presidential Debate in Graphs.
posted by Babblesort at 6:30 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
An enemy to all who love being American and what it means to be American.
Almost half of America appears to disagree. I suggest your perception is significantly incorrect. Apparently Romney is the ideal American for many.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:33 PM on October 17, 2012
Almost half of America appears to disagree. I suggest your perception is significantly incorrect. Apparently Romney is the ideal American for many.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:33 PM on October 17, 2012
JetLagaddict: Yeah, I thought it honestly sounded like he had gotten stuck on repeat. Like C3PO in need of an oil change.
I wonder what he's so wound up and defensive about?
/snicker
posted by Skygazer at 6:52 PM on October 17, 2012
I wonder what he's so wound up and defensive about?
/snicker
posted by Skygazer at 6:52 PM on October 17, 2012
Tearful Mitt Romney Announces He Has Rare Disease Where You Can't Sit Quietly On Stool When Repeatedly Asked To
posted by triggerfinger at 6:54 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by triggerfinger at 6:54 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
He (my FB friend, not Romney presumably) was talking about the "bad old days" of Mormonism and the polygamist lifestyle, which relied on excess of women to marry, casting out young males into the world... and literal books of young girls to be married off.
We Are Sure Mitt Romney’s Lady-Binders Are Nothing Like Outlaw Mormon Sect ‘Joy Books,’ Because That Would Be Gross
posted by homunculus at 7:13 PM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
We Are Sure Mitt Romney’s Lady-Binders Are Nothing Like Outlaw Mormon Sect ‘Joy Books,’ Because That Would Be Gross
posted by homunculus at 7:13 PM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
But wait, Michelle Obama clapped during the debate, proving that they're both Chicago thugs.It's so weird how conservatives suddenly became anti-Chicago overnight back in 2008. I mean, really, anti-Chicago? Seriously? Who's anti-Chicago?
posted by Flunkie at 7:17 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Boy, I have ragged on Candy Crowley for years. I have always found her "journalism" to be typical of CNN (if not as bad as say Blitzer), which is to say biased in extreme ways toward both republicans and corporate interests.
But last night she won me over. That was some excellent moderating.
posted by spitbull at 7:23 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
But last night she won me over. That was some excellent moderating.
posted by spitbull at 7:23 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
It's so weird how conservatives suddenly became anti-Chicago overnight back in 2008. I mean, really, anti-Chicago? Seriously? Who's anti-Chicago?
They do have this weird thick dough nastiness they call 'pizza', but other than that I dunno.
posted by winna at 7:24 PM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
They do have this weird thick dough nastiness they call 'pizza', but other than that I dunno.
posted by winna at 7:24 PM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
Thanks homunculus, that looks like what he was referring to.
posted by edgeways at 7:26 PM on October 17, 2012
posted by edgeways at 7:26 PM on October 17, 2012
But I must admit I find myself wishing the President had proposed a ten thousand dollar bet over whether he called the Benghazi attack "an act of terror" before Crowley could adjudicate the claim. Missed opportunity!
posted by spitbull at 7:27 PM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 7:27 PM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
I found Chicago pizza more bearable when you think of it as a lasagna with a cornbread edible pan, like a bread bowl.
Delicious, just not what I'd classify as pizza.
posted by mrzarquon at 7:28 PM on October 17, 2012
Delicious, just not what I'd classify as pizza.
posted by mrzarquon at 7:28 PM on October 17, 2012
Wow, I'm sure someone covered it already but that Wonkette article mentions that Mittens used the veto pen 844 times, and was overridden 707 times. That's.... that's a lot of vetoes for a one term gov, and a heck of a lot of overrides.
Where was the bipartisan, moderate Governor?
posted by edgeways at 7:32 PM on October 17, 2012 [11 favorites]
Where was the bipartisan, moderate Governor?
posted by edgeways at 7:32 PM on October 17, 2012 [11 favorites]
But last night she won me over. That was some excellent moderating.
posted by spitbull at 10:23 PM on October 17 [+] [!]
Well, perhaps, regardless of her political leanings, Mitt's just such a deeply unlikable, whiny, douche, she couldn't help saying something to get him to STFU and sit down, and stop being the most annoying man in America...
posted by Skygazer at 7:32 PM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 10:23 PM on October 17 [+] [!]
Well, perhaps, regardless of her political leanings, Mitt's just such a deeply unlikable, whiny, douche, she couldn't help saying something to get him to STFU and sit down, and stop being the most annoying man in America...
posted by Skygazer at 7:32 PM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
Criticizing Chicago due to its deep dish pizza, even humorously, is a food heresy akin to criticizing Louisiana for Cajun cooking or criticizing Japan for sashimi. I believe the punishment is losing your right to be taken seriously in any future discussions of food. An acceptable act of penance would be to eat a tamale from the tamale lady on 18th and Ashland (assuming she's still around) - to prove you're serious about excellent regional food.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:49 PM on October 17, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:49 PM on October 17, 2012 [7 favorites]
Nate Silver and Sam Wang will be on NPR’s Science Friday – this week at 2:15pm ET!
posted by Bokmakierie at 7:55 PM on October 17, 2012
posted by Bokmakierie at 7:55 PM on October 17, 2012
Where was the bipartisan, moderate Governor?
Down in South Carolina, campaigning for president by criticizing the state he's the governor of, while he's still governor. Seriously.
posted by benito.strauss at 7:58 PM on October 17, 2012
Down in South Carolina, campaigning for president by criticizing the state he's the governor of, while he's still governor. Seriously.
posted by benito.strauss at 7:58 PM on October 17, 2012
An acceptable act of penance would be to eat a tamale from the tamale lady
As Gerald Ford would tell you, remember to shuck the tamales.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:00 PM on October 17, 2012
As Gerald Ford would tell you, remember to shuck the tamales.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:00 PM on October 17, 2012
Chicago is an historic hub of the financial world, and a lot of trading and clearing takes place there. It's not what you'd call a liberal big city but more of a haven for serious traders, most of whom are acolytes of Ayn Rand.
posted by krinklyfig at 8:01 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by krinklyfig at 8:01 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure it's anything so honorable as all that that earns it right-wing scorn. It's more the honestly rather egregious history of organized crime, indictments, nepotism and other forms of corrupt politics.
posted by Miko at 8:10 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Miko at 8:10 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Surprised there's nothing here yet about Tagg Romney wanting to take a swing at Obama. Because Obama called dad out on his lies (even if not as strongly as many people would like).
posted by inigo2 at 8:19 PM on October 17, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by inigo2 at 8:19 PM on October 17, 2012 [6 favorites]
Hating the corrupt Chicago political machine seems as delightfully old-fashioned to me as evading Revenuers and reporters calling in stories by payphone.
posted by Andrhia at 8:20 PM on October 17, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by Andrhia at 8:20 PM on October 17, 2012 [6 favorites]
If the punishment is to be forced to eat tamales, everyone is going to want to be wrong. Tamales hurrah!
Unless there's something uniquely bad about that lady's food preparation practices which renders her products a risk to health or something.
I always think of the Sandburg poem Chicago which always seemed to me to praise it with damns. It is a perfect example of the poetry Wodehouse was mocking with Rockmeteller Todd.
posted by winna at 8:22 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Unless there's something uniquely bad about that lady's food preparation practices which renders her products a risk to health or something.
I always think of the Sandburg poem Chicago which always seemed to me to praise it with damns. It is a perfect example of the poetry Wodehouse was mocking with Rockmeteller Todd.
posted by winna at 8:22 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Tagg wants to punch Obama for being mean to his dad? How about punching his dad for lying to the country for 20 years?
Aside, can you imagine the clusterfuck that would have ensued had Sasha or Malia said that about Romney after the first debate?
"UNFIT PARENT, UNFIT PRESIDENT"
"OBAMA'S CULTURE OF VIOLENCE"
"A TELLING STATEMENT ABOUTT THE HOME LIVES OF THE OBAMAS".
And yes, it scares me a little that I came up with three so quickly.
posted by Phire at 8:27 PM on October 17, 2012 [12 favorites]
Aside, can you imagine the clusterfuck that would have ensued had Sasha or Malia said that about Romney after the first debate?
"UNFIT PARENT, UNFIT PRESIDENT"
"OBAMA'S CULTURE OF VIOLENCE"
"A TELLING STATEMENT ABOUTT THE HOME LIVES OF THE OBAMAS".
And yes, it scares me a little that I came up with three so quickly.
posted by Phire at 8:27 PM on October 17, 2012 [12 favorites]
Weird story about Tagg. I mean...you're the candidate's son, and you say something like that about the sitting President? It just sort of defies all the usual logic.
It's symptomatic of the family pugilism. My sense of Romney as hothead was really sharpened last night. He often looks like he's about to go full rage, and I get a visceral repulsion from that. Like he's about to take off his belt, you know? Intellectually I know that a lot of people respond to this with an admiration born of intimidation or an expectation that that's what "a man" acts like, but it's still so puzzling. You want a guy to be President because...he scared you into it? You're afraid of what he'll do if he doesn't get it? You don't want to be punished? What?
posted by Miko at 8:28 PM on October 17, 2012 [27 favorites]
It's symptomatic of the family pugilism. My sense of Romney as hothead was really sharpened last night. He often looks like he's about to go full rage, and I get a visceral repulsion from that. Like he's about to take off his belt, you know? Intellectually I know that a lot of people respond to this with an admiration born of intimidation or an expectation that that's what "a man" acts like, but it's still so puzzling. You want a guy to be President because...he scared you into it? You're afraid of what he'll do if he doesn't get it? You don't want to be punished? What?
posted by Miko at 8:28 PM on October 17, 2012 [27 favorites]
Leaked Audio Captures Romney Asking Employers To Tell Their Employees How To Vote.
Forget the presidency; run him out of town.
posted by Phire at 8:30 PM on October 17, 2012 [9 favorites]
Forget the presidency; run him out of town.
posted by Phire at 8:30 PM on October 17, 2012 [9 favorites]
Geez.
I received a letter from the company that holds my retirement plan (via work) that I really didn't like. It was all "What the 2012 election may mean for your retirement plan" and though it didn't say "it's Obama's fault! Vote Romney!" it was certainly hinting at dire risks to your plan and the like. Was not completely comfortable with the tone.
posted by Miko at 8:33 PM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
I received a letter from the company that holds my retirement plan (via work) that I really didn't like. It was all "What the 2012 election may mean for your retirement plan" and though it didn't say "it's Obama's fault! Vote Romney!" it was certainly hinting at dire risks to your plan and the like. Was not completely comfortable with the tone.
posted by Miko at 8:33 PM on October 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
Tagg Romney blocks hospice from being built
posted by homunculus at 8:42 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 8:42 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
how come no one is calling out obama for being all i don't look at my pention bet you got a small dick
posted by klangklangston at 8:45 PM on October 17, 2012
posted by klangklangston at 8:45 PM on October 17, 2012
...because we like Our Guy and hate Their Guy? I thought that was understood.
(Maybe I just read too many feminist bloggers - most of them commented rather frequently on the metaphorical dick-comparing in both that section and in the foreign policy one. Did we also talk about that here or am I misremembering?)
posted by muddgirl at 8:51 PM on October 17, 2012
(Maybe I just read too many feminist bloggers - most of them commented rather frequently on the metaphorical dick-comparing in both that section and in the foreign policy one. Did we also talk about that here or am I misremembering?)
posted by muddgirl at 8:51 PM on October 17, 2012
Aside, can you imagine the clusterfuck that would have ensued had Sasha or Malia said that about Romney after the first debate?
Indeed - even though you might think it would be more excusable coming from a child than a forty-something-year-old man.
posted by naoko at 8:58 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Indeed - even though you might think it would be more excusable coming from a child than a forty-something-year-old man.
posted by naoko at 8:58 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Hot off the Ze Frank youtube channel presses: VERY IMPORTANT NOTES ON THE SECOND DEBATE
posted by koeselitz at 9:19 PM on October 17, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by koeselitz at 9:19 PM on October 17, 2012 [8 favorites]
Mitt has a son named Tagg? Really? I think he should be disqualified from office just for that.
posted by me & my monkey at 9:20 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by me & my monkey at 9:20 PM on October 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I thought it honestly sounded like he had gotten stuck on repeat. Like C3PO in need of an oil change.
It's a flaw of Romney's, being a petulant child who tries to nag one to death. I think that's why the moderator did the live fact check, to shut him so she could the debate on. 'Cause at that point Romney seemed stuck in a groove about who said what and when.
Obama should totally exploit that fault in the final thread.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:52 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
It's a flaw of Romney's, being a petulant child who tries to nag one to death. I think that's why the moderator did the live fact check, to shut him so she could the debate on. 'Cause at that point Romney seemed stuck in a groove about who said what and when.
Obama should totally exploit that fault in the final thread.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:52 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
It's a flaw of Romney's, being a petulant child who tries to nag one to death.
Romney:
Mr. President, have you looked at your pension? Have you looked at your pension? Mr. President, have you looked at your pension?IKEA commercial:
Mom can I have a cookie? Mom can I have a cookie? Mom can I have a cookie?posted by kirkaracha at 9:59 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Koeselitz, thank you. I really needed that Ze Frank video.
"Mustaches are the undecided facial hair!" Love.
posted by Superplin at 10:01 PM on October 17, 2012
"Mustaches are the undecided facial hair!" Love.
posted by Superplin at 10:01 PM on October 17, 2012
This is hilarious, Candy broke Mitt's concentration oh noes waaaaaaaambulance!
foxnews link
posted by rainy at 10:05 PM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
foxnews link
posted by rainy at 10:05 PM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
"Mitt has a son named Tagg? Really? I think he should be disqualified from office just for that."
Rombot's name generator has a low corpus to draw from. The next five on the print out were Zeff, Dirk, Gort, Knobs and Smirk, so Tagg got lucky.
posted by klangklangston at 10:11 PM on October 17, 2012 [8 favorites]
Rombot's name generator has a low corpus to draw from. The next five on the print out were Zeff, Dirk, Gort, Knobs and Smirk, so Tagg got lucky.
posted by klangklangston at 10:11 PM on October 17, 2012 [8 favorites]
Candy Crowley Talks About Fact-Checking Mitt Romney and the Debate on 'The View'
Wow, those View ladies are scary! No wonder Romney:
- Was afraid to appear on the show in the first place because of the "sharp-tongued ladies."
- Punked out last month and agreed to appear on the show this week.
- Punked out again and cancelled this week.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:13 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
That Tagg quote got under my skin. Empty macho posturing from a right wing trust fund kid is par for the course, but A) show some fucking respect for the office, and B) why do I get the feeling that he'd never say that about a white President?
posted by jason_steakums at 10:16 PM on October 17, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 10:16 PM on October 17, 2012 [7 favorites]
Bush Tax Cuts Have Provided Extremely Large Benefits to Wealthiest Americans Over Last Nine Years
The Bush Tax Cuts Made the Tax Code Less Progressive
The Tax Policy Center estimates show that in each of the years from 2004 to 2012, the Bush tax cuts boosted the after-tax incomes of high-income households by a much greater percentage than they did for low-income households. For example, in 2010, the year in which all of the Bush estate and income tax cuts were fully phased in, the tax cuts:
Raised the average after-tax income of the top 1 percent of households by 6.7 percent (or $66,618);
Raised the average after-tax income of the top 20 percent of households by 4.6 percent (or $7,860); but
Raised the average after-tax income of the middle 20 percent of households by 2.8 percent (or $1,039), and
Raised the average after-tax income of the bottom 20 percent of households by just 1.0 percent (or $99).
The tax cuts also had similarly regressive patterns in the years before they were fully phased in (see Appendix 1).
posted by Golden Eternity at 10:28 PM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
The Bush Tax Cuts Made the Tax Code Less Progressive
The Tax Policy Center estimates show that in each of the years from 2004 to 2012, the Bush tax cuts boosted the after-tax incomes of high-income households by a much greater percentage than they did for low-income households. For example, in 2010, the year in which all of the Bush estate and income tax cuts were fully phased in, the tax cuts:
Raised the average after-tax income of the top 1 percent of households by 6.7 percent (or $66,618);
Raised the average after-tax income of the top 20 percent of households by 4.6 percent (or $7,860); but
Raised the average after-tax income of the middle 20 percent of households by 2.8 percent (or $1,039), and
Raised the average after-tax income of the bottom 20 percent of households by just 1.0 percent (or $99).
The tax cuts also had similarly regressive patterns in the years before they were fully phased in (see Appendix 1).
posted by Golden Eternity at 10:28 PM on October 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
That Tagg quote got under my skin. Empty macho posturing from a right wing trust fund kid is par for the course, but A) show some fucking respect for the office, and B) why do I get the feeling that he'd never say that about a white President?
Well, in his mind he's defending his father, and he's probably having difficulty keeping it impersonal. I don't think this necessarily means he's a bad guy. I'd like to not assume the worst, absent much other evidence.
posted by JHarris at 10:55 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Well, in his mind he's defending his father, and he's probably having difficulty keeping it impersonal. I don't think this necessarily means he's a bad guy. I'd like to not assume the worst, absent much other evidence.
posted by JHarris at 10:55 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
If everyone is playing by the same rules, Tagg is now on the no-fly list, right?
posted by five fresh fish at 10:57 PM on October 17, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by five fresh fish at 10:57 PM on October 17, 2012 [9 favorites]
This easily-forgotten reaction from Romney (which delmoi picked up on) was, for me, one of the most shocking moments of the night:
MS. CROWLEY: Let me get the governor in here, Mr. President. Let’s speak to, if you could, Governor —
MR. ROMNEY: Let’s —
MS. CROWLEY: — the idea of self-deportation.
MR. ROMNEY: Let — no, let — let me go back and speak to the points that the president made and — and let’s get them correct.
The condescending and flippant way in which Romney says "no" to Crowley really struck me when I was first watching the debate.
posted by dhens at 11:14 PM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
MS. CROWLEY: Let me get the governor in here, Mr. President. Let’s speak to, if you could, Governor —
MR. ROMNEY: Let’s —
MS. CROWLEY: — the idea of self-deportation.
MR. ROMNEY: Let — no, let — let me go back and speak to the points that the president made and — and let’s get them correct.
The condescending and flippant way in which Romney says "no" to Crowley really struck me when I was first watching the debate.
posted by dhens at 11:14 PM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
For me, Dhens, it was "Candy, Candy, Candy," talking over her the way that people do to small children. It was just chilling to me to see him trying to shut her down like that. She's the moderator; it's her job. I'm pretty sure she knows what she's doing.
posted by MeghanC at 11:34 PM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by MeghanC at 11:34 PM on October 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
I'd like to not assume the worst, absent much other evidence.
Evidence.
posted by homunculus at 11:40 PM on October 17, 2012
Evidence.
posted by homunculus at 11:40 PM on October 17, 2012
Skygazer: If you are a doctor, lawyer, teacher, farmer or factory worker, you’ll go to jail for that kind of scheme.
That is correct. Add small businessman to this list, as well. As a US Expat who has a company in Austria and works closely with my brother, who has a company with a similar name in the States, my Austrian accountant counseled me SPECIFICALLY to avoid transfer pricing.
I can send my brother's company a bill, and he can send my company a bill, but we have to show that we're invoicing each other for actual services performed, rather than just transferring money from one firm to the other in order to avoid paying taxes.
Of course, there's not much incentive to engage in transfer pricing between Austria and the US, since we'd have to pay taxes on the income in either country. If we had a third company in the Caymans (or in Jersey, Switzerland, etc.), that'd be a different story.
posted by syzygy at 11:48 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
That is correct. Add small businessman to this list, as well. As a US Expat who has a company in Austria and works closely with my brother, who has a company with a similar name in the States, my Austrian accountant counseled me SPECIFICALLY to avoid transfer pricing.
I can send my brother's company a bill, and he can send my company a bill, but we have to show that we're invoicing each other for actual services performed, rather than just transferring money from one firm to the other in order to avoid paying taxes.
Of course, there's not much incentive to engage in transfer pricing between Austria and the US, since we'd have to pay taxes on the income in either country. If we had a third company in the Caymans (or in Jersey, Switzerland, etc.), that'd be a different story.
posted by syzygy at 11:48 PM on October 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Phire: Tagg wants to punch Obama for being mean to his dad? How about punching his dad for lying to the country for 20 years?
You know, this brings up something that's been worrying me a little. About the only thing that I could imagine being worse than Mitt Romney winning this election is having Mitt Romney win this election and establish a political dynasty like the Kennedys or the Bushes.
Mark my words, whether or not Romney wins this election, we'll be hearing from Tagg or at least one of his hawk-eyed brothers down the road.
posted by syzygy at 2:03 AM on October 18, 2012
You know, this brings up something that's been worrying me a little. About the only thing that I could imagine being worse than Mitt Romney winning this election is having Mitt Romney win this election and establish a political dynasty like the Kennedys or the Bushes.
Mark my words, whether or not Romney wins this election, we'll be hearing from Tagg or at least one of his hawk-eyed brothers down the road.
posted by syzygy at 2:03 AM on October 18, 2012
Good news from SCOTUS with regard to early voting (PDF) in Ohio.
posted by bardophile at 2:54 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by bardophile at 2:54 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
This whole Tagg Romney thing is just a teaser for next season's Game of Thrones, right?
Right? *grabs lucid dreaming totem*
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 3:23 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Right? *grabs lucid dreaming totem*
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 3:23 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
When Romney talks about the "middle income earners" and The President talks about the "middle class", they're talking about two different things, right?
...as in, the middle class that President Obama refers to represents a huge chunk of the population, whereas Mitt's 'middle income earners' is skewed high and represents a small number of Americans in the 'middle income' bracket in an economy with real income disparity.
posted by panaceanot at 3:28 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
...as in, the middle class that President Obama refers to represents a huge chunk of the population, whereas Mitt's 'middle income earners' is skewed high and represents a small number of Americans in the 'middle income' bracket in an economy with real income disparity.
posted by panaceanot at 3:28 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
It is a perfect example of the poetry Wodehouse was mocking with Rockmeteller Todd.
To be fair to old Rocky, fictional character though he may be, he was making something of a mockery of the poetry himself.
posted by howfar at 3:33 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
To be fair to old Rocky, fictional character though he may be, he was making something of a mockery of the poetry himself.
posted by howfar at 3:33 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
First national post-debate poll has Obama up by almost a point (at 50.3%) and Romney down by almost a point (at 44.3%) from the previous day.
At this moment, intrade investors give Obama a 65.9% chance of winning (an improvement of almost 4 points over the Oct 16 closing number, the day before the debate). They give Romney a 34.2% chance of winning (likewise, down almost 4 points from the October 16 closing number).
posted by syzygy at 3:46 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
At this moment, intrade investors give Obama a 65.9% chance of winning (an improvement of almost 4 points over the Oct 16 closing number, the day before the debate). They give Romney a 34.2% chance of winning (likewise, down almost 4 points from the October 16 closing number).
posted by syzygy at 3:46 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Mark my words, whether or not Romney wins this election, we'll be hearing from Tagg or at least one of his hawk-eyed brothers down the road.
I don't know that we will (I hope not). If Romney loses this election I don't think Republicans are going to be very keen to get another Romney in the running again. Hell, they were incredibly reluctant to do so this time around -- look at the parade of lunatics they marched out during the primaries in a desperate attempt to find Anyone But Mitt.
Plus I imagine it would be hard to run for office when you're now on the record saying you wish you could've punched a sitting president. (Of course, I also would've thought this race would have already been over after one of the candidates told literally half the country to go fuck themselves.)
At least funnyman Rob Delaney will keep him safe after he loses.
posted by Timmoy Daen at 3:48 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
I don't know that we will (I hope not). If Romney loses this election I don't think Republicans are going to be very keen to get another Romney in the running again. Hell, they were incredibly reluctant to do so this time around -- look at the parade of lunatics they marched out during the primaries in a desperate attempt to find Anyone But Mitt.
Plus I imagine it would be hard to run for office when you're now on the record saying you wish you could've punched a sitting president. (Of course, I also would've thought this race would have already been over after one of the candidates told literally half the country to go fuck themselves.)
At least funnyman Rob Delaney will keep him safe after he loses.
posted by Timmoy Daen at 3:48 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
This is real stupid but it sorta feels like that moment in that second Lord of the Rings movie when everybody is ready to die in the Keep and then Gandalf the White and the riders swoop down and start killing orcs and shit.
It's like, you know Sauron isn't dead but whoo-hoo we're not dead either
posted by angrycat at 3:52 AM on October 18, 2012 [13 favorites]
It's like, you know Sauron isn't dead but whoo-hoo we're not dead either
posted by angrycat at 3:52 AM on October 18, 2012 [13 favorites]
When Romney talks about the "middle income earners" and The President talks about the "middle class", they're talking about two different things, right?
...as in, the middle class that President Obama refers to represents a huge chunk of the population, whereas Mitt's 'middle income earners' is skewed high and represents a small number of Americans in the 'middle income' bracket in an economy with real income disparity.
Kinda sorta... Romney has defined "middle income" as "$250,000 to $200,000" or less", which sounds so Richey Rich as to be comic. Romney is thinking of middle income, it seems, as basically the lowest tranche of society he is ever likely to come into contact with - owners of smallish but successful businesses and middle-ranking professionals.
"Middle class" more broadly is generally taken to mean wealthy enough to pay one's bills, or at least did before the middle started getting squeezed hard. Frank Levy, the MIT Professor of Urban Economics, has pinned that at about $30-90,000 a year - enough, depending on where you live, to keep up the payments on your house, pay your bills, run a car or two and feed your family.
Looking at the quintiles, the middle three quintiles - so, the statistical middle - go from about $20,000 to $90,000 per year, but I think $20,000 is bumping along the bottom - if you are the sole provider for a family of four, that also puts you dangerously close to the poverty line, so YMMV. When Biden or Obama talk about the middle class, they are appealing, at least rhetorically, to these people - people whose income probably just about matches their expenditure, give or take, but whose idea of discretionary spending is an iPhone rather than a dressage horse.
However, in practical terms the "tax cuts for the middle class" that we hear so much about top out with dual-income households earning $250,000 or more and individuals earning $200,000 or more. So, actually, although Romney got noogied hard for his answer to what is meant by "middle income", he was actually broadly in line with the definition from Obama's White House, in which the "middle class" is the section of the American people who earn less than $250,000 a year (96-98%, depending on how you cut it) - qv this White House infographic.
This is kind of Milliways economics, but it's useful to keep in mind.
posted by running order squabble fest at 4:07 AM on October 18, 2012 [5 favorites]
...as in, the middle class that President Obama refers to represents a huge chunk of the population, whereas Mitt's 'middle income earners' is skewed high and represents a small number of Americans in the 'middle income' bracket in an economy with real income disparity.
Kinda sorta... Romney has defined "middle income" as "$250,000 to $200,000" or less", which sounds so Richey Rich as to be comic. Romney is thinking of middle income, it seems, as basically the lowest tranche of society he is ever likely to come into contact with - owners of smallish but successful businesses and middle-ranking professionals.
"Middle class" more broadly is generally taken to mean wealthy enough to pay one's bills, or at least did before the middle started getting squeezed hard. Frank Levy, the MIT Professor of Urban Economics, has pinned that at about $30-90,000 a year - enough, depending on where you live, to keep up the payments on your house, pay your bills, run a car or two and feed your family.
Looking at the quintiles, the middle three quintiles - so, the statistical middle - go from about $20,000 to $90,000 per year, but I think $20,000 is bumping along the bottom - if you are the sole provider for a family of four, that also puts you dangerously close to the poverty line, so YMMV. When Biden or Obama talk about the middle class, they are appealing, at least rhetorically, to these people - people whose income probably just about matches their expenditure, give or take, but whose idea of discretionary spending is an iPhone rather than a dressage horse.
However, in practical terms the "tax cuts for the middle class" that we hear so much about top out with dual-income households earning $250,000 or more and individuals earning $200,000 or more. So, actually, although Romney got noogied hard for his answer to what is meant by "middle income", he was actually broadly in line with the definition from Obama's White House, in which the "middle class" is the section of the American people who earn less than $250,000 a year (96-98%, depending on how you cut it) - qv this White House infographic.
This is kind of Milliways economics, but it's useful to keep in mind.
posted by running order squabble fest at 4:07 AM on October 18, 2012 [5 favorites]
Good news from SCOTUS with regard to early voting (PDF) in Ohio.
I'm picturing someone from Koch Industries sending Alec Baldwin to Ohio to explain to the Secretary of State why he's only getting a set of steak knives.
Governorship is for closers!
posted by Room 641-A at 4:54 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm picturing someone from Koch Industries sending Alec Baldwin to Ohio to explain to the Secretary of State why he's only getting a set of steak knives.
Governorship is for closers!
posted by Room 641-A at 4:54 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
P'raps Tagg has been traumatized by too many games of Jenga. So of course he wants to jump up when he sees his father's claims collapse like a bunch of flimsy, precariously balanced sticks
posted by angrycat at 5:39 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by angrycat at 5:39 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
P'raps Tagg has been traumatised by the all important father in his family. Like father, like son.
> Like he's about to take off his belt, you know?
Yes ... know exactly what you mean. Perfectly put. I've been looking at Ann Romney as an abused woman for weeks. True. The man's a zealot who is used to having the last word.
I even detected Ann Romney's nervousness joining Romney on the stage after the 2nd debate. The woman walks on egg shells.
posted by de at 5:51 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
> Like he's about to take off his belt, you know?
Yes ... know exactly what you mean. Perfectly put. I've been looking at Ann Romney as an abused woman for weeks. True. The man's a zealot who is used to having the last word.
I even detected Ann Romney's nervousness joining Romney on the stage after the 2nd debate. The woman walks on egg shells.
posted by de at 5:51 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
Waking up today, this thread just feels so... small
MOTHERTHREAD 4EVA! R.I.P.
posted by Theta States at 6:06 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
MOTHERTHREAD 4EVA! R.I.P.
posted by Theta States at 6:06 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
inigo2: "Tagg Romney wanting to take a swing at Obama. Because Obama called dad out on his lies "
Son, there's a lot of people that want to take a swing at your pop for being a liar. So, maybe call it a day and go back to being paid to not add value to the world?
posted by notsnot at 6:10 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Son, there's a lot of people that want to take a swing at your pop for being a liar. So, maybe call it a day and go back to being paid to not add value to the world?
posted by notsnot at 6:10 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
The reviewers at Amazon are quick with the memefication:
"Finally. Something I can use with my Bic For Her Pens! I ruined my last binder when I smashed my head into the glass ceiling."
posted by drlith at 6:12 AM on October 18, 2012 [4 favorites]
"Finally. Something I can use with my Bic For Her Pens! I ruined my last binder when I smashed my head into the glass ceiling."
posted by drlith at 6:12 AM on October 18, 2012 [4 favorites]
Fox News finally admit that Romney lost the debate! But in true classy style, they do so passive aggressively with this headline:
BIAS ALERT: Crowley's Actions Swing Debate
OPINION: 'Moderator-in-chief's' actions during Libya question effectively swing debate in Obama's favor
posted by Theta States at 6:16 AM on October 18, 2012 [5 favorites]
BIAS ALERT: Crowley's Actions Swing Debate
OPINION: 'Moderator-in-chief's' actions during Libya question effectively swing debate in Obama's favor
posted by Theta States at 6:16 AM on October 18, 2012 [5 favorites]
Fwiw, Tagg is short for Taggart. Which is not terribly much better. I would assume he got a lot of inappropriate grief over that name when he was a kid.
Can't help but wonder what sort of names would have resulted from a Romney Palin union (not that I'm really one who should chuck stones about unusual names mind you)
posted by edgeways at 6:18 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Can't help but wonder what sort of names would have resulted from a Romney Palin union (not that I'm really one who should chuck stones about unusual names mind you)
posted by edgeways at 6:18 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Fwiw, Tagg is short for Taggart.
That out-WASPs some of the WASPiest first names I've ever heard.
posted by mcmile at 6:30 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
That out-WASPs some of the WASPiest first names I've ever heard.
posted by mcmile at 6:30 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
I would assume he got a lot of inappropriate grief over that name when he was a kid.
Probably. And then he crushed them with his wallet.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 6:33 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
Probably. And then he crushed them with his wallet.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 6:33 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
edgeways: "Fwiw, Tagg is short for Taggart."
Surprised they didn't go all-in and name the rest of them d'Anconia, Rearden, Galt, and Danneskjöld...
posted by notsnot at 6:37 AM on October 18, 2012 [12 favorites]
Surprised they didn't go all-in and name the rest of them d'Anconia, Rearden, Galt, and Danneskjöld...
posted by notsnot at 6:37 AM on October 18, 2012 [12 favorites]
I assume the kids he played with had comparable ...er... wallets. "Hey, I'll show you mine if you show me yourse."
posted by edgeways at 6:38 AM on October 18, 2012
posted by edgeways at 6:38 AM on October 18, 2012
Fwiw, Tagg is short for Taggart.
"There's been a murder!"
posted by howfar at 6:40 AM on October 18, 2012 [4 favorites]
"There's been a murder!"
posted by howfar at 6:40 AM on October 18, 2012 [4 favorites]
NYT: Living in a community means being interconnected in myriad ways — including by empathy. To feel undiminished by the deaths of those around us isn’t heroic Ayn Rand individualism. It’s sociopathic. Compassion isn’t a sign of weakness, but of civilization.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:44 AM on October 18, 2012 [10 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:44 AM on October 18, 2012 [10 favorites]
That's why there's all the objections to the statement that there were no women in the initial pool. That doesn't mean no women applied. It means Romney's staff - the staff he chose and surrounded himself with - COULD NOT THINK OF any qualified women. And couldn't find any without help.
Indeed, I was hoping that Obama would respond with something like "You and your entire staff couldn't think of any women qualified for your cabinet yourselves, so you had to ask for help? What about [lists 10 awesome women in Massachusetts politics/business off the top of his head]? Why were you and your entire staff completely unaware of even one of these women?"
posted by mikepop at 6:44 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Indeed, I was hoping that Obama would respond with something like "You and your entire staff couldn't think of any women qualified for your cabinet yourselves, so you had to ask for help? What about [lists 10 awesome women in Massachusetts politics/business off the top of his head]? Why were you and your entire staff completely unaware of even one of these women?"
posted by mikepop at 6:44 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Tagg Romney wanting to take a swing at Obama.
Fwiw, Tagg is short for Taggart.
So you're saying that what he really wants is to do is work up a Number Six on the president?
Ride into the White House, a-whoopin' and a-whompin' ever' livin' thing within an inch of its life?
posted by Herodios at 6:49 AM on October 18, 2012 [4 favorites]
Fwiw, Tagg is short for Taggart.
So you're saying that what he really wants is to do is work up a Number Six on the president?
Ride into the White House, a-whoopin' and a-whompin' ever' livin' thing within an inch of its life?
posted by Herodios at 6:49 AM on October 18, 2012 [4 favorites]
From the above-mentioned link, I thought this was jaw-dropping:
A woman is then heard recommending that his wife Ann appear on The View to help stop people thinking of Romney as a "rich guy".
Romney then responded that he is "poor as a church mouse right now."
Romney is so out-of-touch with church mice reality.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:58 AM on October 18, 2012 [10 favorites]
A woman is then heard recommending that his wife Ann appear on The View to help stop people thinking of Romney as a "rich guy".
Romney then responded that he is "poor as a church mouse right now."
Romney is so out-of-touch with church mice reality.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:58 AM on October 18, 2012 [10 favorites]
Katherin Fenton, the undecided voter who asked about equal pay in Tuesday's debate, closed her Twitter account after a right-wing blog published some of her tweets. Salon interview with Fenton after asking her question.
posted by gladly at 6:59 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by gladly at 6:59 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Hey, don't worry everyone, game's over. MetaFilter's Own [snerk] Scott Adams has endorsed Romney because of maybe something to do with pot? The bizarre money quote:
Adams, who said that he disagrees with Romney on “most topics,” said “one can’t be sure” where Romney would stand on the subject — so he offered up his endorsement of the GOP nominee.posted by psoas at 7:06 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
In relation to the Fox News piece on Crowley linked above by a few people:
Did Crowley understand that her intervention 70 minutes into a 100 minute debate was not only possibly inaccurate but also partisan in that it helped Obama?
This is NOT what partisan means. Just because it helped Obama, doesn't make it partisan. It has to be biased or prejudiced to be partisan. The fact that the economy is not good helps Romney. That's not partisan. The fact that the economy is getting better helps Obama. Still not partisan.
I'm not sure why I am bothering, it's Fox News.
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:14 AM on October 18, 2012 [18 favorites]
Did Crowley understand that her intervention 70 minutes into a 100 minute debate was not only possibly inaccurate but also partisan in that it helped Obama?
This is NOT what partisan means. Just because it helped Obama, doesn't make it partisan. It has to be biased or prejudiced to be partisan. The fact that the economy is not good helps Romney. That's not partisan. The fact that the economy is getting better helps Obama. Still not partisan.
I'm not sure why I am bothering, it's Fox News.
posted by Lemurrhea at 7:14 AM on October 18, 2012 [18 favorites]
Man that is a ringing endorsement by Adams I tell you what. "Well I disagree with Romney about most everything, and he will likely be the same on drug policy on Obama, but maybe he'll change his mind in four years to get reelected, or something something State's rights... and oh here is a implication that Obama is awesome in many other ways other than drug policy." Vote Romney!!!11!!
posted by edgeways at 7:21 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by edgeways at 7:21 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
That's just Fox News, Lemurrhea. Anything that helps the Democrats is partisan.
posted by ceribus peribus at 7:26 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ceribus peribus at 7:26 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
20 days until we find out if the Nuge will be forever free or dead/in jail!!!
posted by edgeways at 7:37 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by edgeways at 7:37 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Katherin Fenton, the undecided voter who asked about equal pay in Tuesday's debate, closed her Twitter account after a right-wing blog published some of her tweets.
Meanwhile Kerry of Global Telecomm in Mineola, who definitely wasn't a plant, just started a twitter after the debate. https://twitter.com/KerryLadka (He also has an open FB page.) Nothing like a douchnozzle enjoying his 15 seconds of fame.
posted by NorthernLite at 7:40 AM on October 18, 2012
Meanwhile Kerry of Global Telecomm in Mineola, who definitely wasn't a plant, just started a twitter after the debate. https://twitter.com/KerryLadka (He also has an open FB page.) Nothing like a douchnozzle enjoying his 15 seconds of fame.
posted by NorthernLite at 7:40 AM on October 18, 2012
Damn, I was hoping his last name was Latke.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:42 AM on October 18, 2012
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:42 AM on October 18, 2012
Tagg Romney is not a boy. He's in his 40s. He should get a visit from the Secret Service for that remark. And by the looks of things, I suspect Pres. Obama could kick his ass in any physical contest anyway.
But just imagine the endless parade of Oedipal angst (and Maureen Dowd columns) to come. I mean George Herbert Walker Bush only had 3 sons, only one of whom was intent (so far) on avenging his daddy's humiliation. There are endless Replicant Romneys and they come from an obviously far more patriarchal family and culture (Mitt Romney, as Barack Obama pointed out in the second debate, is no George W. Bush either. At least Junior was afraid enough of his mother that he mostly left Planned Parenthood alone.)
I absolutely agree Tagg would not have said this (or if he had, his dad's candidacy would be sunk) were Pres. Obama not a black man.
posted by spitbull at 7:42 AM on October 18, 2012 [5 favorites]
But just imagine the endless parade of Oedipal angst (and Maureen Dowd columns) to come. I mean George Herbert Walker Bush only had 3 sons, only one of whom was intent (so far) on avenging his daddy's humiliation. There are endless Replicant Romneys and they come from an obviously far more patriarchal family and culture (Mitt Romney, as Barack Obama pointed out in the second debate, is no George W. Bush either. At least Junior was afraid enough of his mother that he mostly left Planned Parenthood alone.)
I absolutely agree Tagg would not have said this (or if he had, his dad's candidacy would be sunk) were Pres. Obama not a black man.
posted by spitbull at 7:42 AM on October 18, 2012 [5 favorites]
On Scott Adams' position: his actual blog post is bookended with these -
posted by achrise at 7:43 AM on October 18, 2012
Warning: This blog is written for a rational audience that likes to have fun wrestling with unique or controversial points of view. It is written in a style that can easily be confused as advocacy or opinion. It is not intended to change anyone's beliefs or actions. If you quote from this post or link to it, which you are welcome to do, please take responsibility for whatever happens if you mismatch the audience and the content.In between: "jailing American citizens for political gain simply has to be a firing offense no matter how awesome you might be in other ways."
[Update: Congratulations to Politico for being the first to take this post out of context. I'm a little disappointed in Jezebel, Gawker and Salon for being slow to the party. Are all of their context-removers on vacation or something?]
posted by achrise at 7:43 AM on October 18, 2012
Can we continue ignoring Scott Adams and his disingenuous attention seeking strategies? He is so washed up and irrelevant, really.
posted by spitbull at 7:44 AM on October 18, 2012 [19 favorites]
posted by spitbull at 7:44 AM on October 18, 2012 [19 favorites]
So, a propos of nothing, I've been thinking about why Romney's "Candy, Candy, Candy" infuriated me so much whereas Biden's "Martha, Martha, Martha" scanned perfectly fine. I mean, it's entirely possible that it was just rank partisanship or a starry-eyed infatuation with Biden's charms, but if it was that then I wanted to know.
And I think it comes down to the motive behind why the two men chose to invoke the moderator like that. Biden did use Raddatz's first name name a lot, but it was always in the form of an appeal to solidarity or authority. He recognized her role as the moderator at the debate, and was calling on her to perform her duty and call Ryan out on his, uh, stuff. "Martha, can you believe the malarkey the guy beside me is coming up with?" "Martha, please let me take this clown to school." "Martha, do something before I deck this fool." Biden may have been doing it ironically, jovially, without the genuine expectation that she would actually step in, but his attitude to her was always respectful of her role in the debate.
On the other hand, Romney had no interest in respecting Crowley, and was in fact resentful and contemptuous of her presence at the debate at all. This showed through in his petulant tone, his flippant dismissal of her directives, but most of all this showed through anytime he tried to address her directly. He was treating Crowley like a particularly incompetent underling, trying to steamroll over her instead of appreciating the difficult job she has to do. "Candy, shut up and let the men talk." "Candy, I'm not finished, he'll get his turn later." "Candy, let me explain how this works."
Biden never doubt Raddatz's competence and qualifications, and referred to her foreign policy expertise numerous times during the interview. Romney saw Candy as a yapping dog underfoot getting in the way of his lies, and never addressed her directly without sneering, as though he was shocked that someone wasn't letting him get his way. The former was friendly and amusing, the latter made me want to punch Romney on Crowley's behalf, because I would not have let someone I was moderating talk down to me like that, but she had little choice.
Funny how three repeats of someone's name can differ so much in meaning.
posted by Phire at 7:46 AM on October 18, 2012 [11 favorites]
And I think it comes down to the motive behind why the two men chose to invoke the moderator like that. Biden did use Raddatz's first name name a lot, but it was always in the form of an appeal to solidarity or authority. He recognized her role as the moderator at the debate, and was calling on her to perform her duty and call Ryan out on his, uh, stuff. "Martha, can you believe the malarkey the guy beside me is coming up with?" "Martha, please let me take this clown to school." "Martha, do something before I deck this fool." Biden may have been doing it ironically, jovially, without the genuine expectation that she would actually step in, but his attitude to her was always respectful of her role in the debate.
On the other hand, Romney had no interest in respecting Crowley, and was in fact resentful and contemptuous of her presence at the debate at all. This showed through in his petulant tone, his flippant dismissal of her directives, but most of all this showed through anytime he tried to address her directly. He was treating Crowley like a particularly incompetent underling, trying to steamroll over her instead of appreciating the difficult job she has to do. "Candy, shut up and let the men talk." "Candy, I'm not finished, he'll get his turn later." "Candy, let me explain how this works."
Biden never doubt Raddatz's competence and qualifications, and referred to her foreign policy expertise numerous times during the interview. Romney saw Candy as a yapping dog underfoot getting in the way of his lies, and never addressed her directly without sneering, as though he was shocked that someone wasn't letting him get his way. The former was friendly and amusing, the latter made me want to punch Romney on Crowley's behalf, because I would not have let someone I was moderating talk down to me like that, but she had little choice.
Funny how three repeats of someone's name can differ so much in meaning.
posted by Phire at 7:46 AM on October 18, 2012 [11 favorites]
Katherin Fenton, the undecided voter who asked about equal pay in Tuesday's debate, closed her Twitter account after a right-wing blog published some of her tweets.
Ugh, and she wants you to know that she is "absolutely not" a feminist, even though she feels strongly about equal pay and reproductive rights. So, uh, why not a feminist? “I’m not only concerned with women.”
It makes me weep. As does the fact that, even given her specific concerns, she's still undecided.
posted by Superplin at 7:48 AM on October 18, 2012 [15 favorites]
Ugh, and she wants you to know that she is "absolutely not" a feminist, even though she feels strongly about equal pay and reproductive rights. So, uh, why not a feminist? “I’m not only concerned with women.”
It makes me weep. As does the fact that, even given her specific concerns, she's still undecided.
posted by Superplin at 7:48 AM on October 18, 2012 [15 favorites]
spitbull - Sorry I guess my PHB didn't forward me that memo.
posted by achrise at 7:48 AM on October 18, 2012
posted by achrise at 7:48 AM on October 18, 2012
Phire, interesting comment. Biden was also sitting RIGHT next to Raddatz, and didn't need to shout. Mitt sounded a little shouty.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:49 AM on October 18, 2012
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:49 AM on October 18, 2012
“one can’t be sure” where Romney would stand on the subject
That's true in the general case.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 8:00 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
That's true in the general case.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 8:00 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Fwiw, Tagg is short for Taggart.
>That out-WASPs some of the WASPiest first names I've ever heard.
It might be like a Tolkien name. "I am Taggart, son of Braggart."
posted by ersatz at 8:02 AM on October 18, 2012 [17 favorites]
>That out-WASPs some of the WASPiest first names I've ever heard.
It might be like a Tolkien name. "I am Taggart, son of Braggart."
posted by ersatz at 8:02 AM on October 18, 2012 [17 favorites]
Ugh, Tagg was the guy with dead black eyes sitting next to Annie during the debate, right? If he wasn’t a Romney that creep would’ve been totally taken down by the Secret Service just for his appearance and manner.
But instead he’s untouched and the Green Party candidate was cuffed to a chair and watched by 16 cops for eight hours that night. Yay, America!
(btw Isn't Tagg also one of the Palin spawn names too? Maybe the one who was in the Army. Or the 3-y.o. homophobe grandkid? )
posted by NorthernLite at 8:04 AM on October 18, 2012
But instead he’s untouched and the Green Party candidate was cuffed to a chair and watched by 16 cops for eight hours that night. Yay, America!
(btw Isn't Tagg also one of the Palin spawn names too? Maybe the one who was in the Army. Or the 3-y.o. homophobe grandkid? )
posted by NorthernLite at 8:04 AM on October 18, 2012
NorthernLite, I think you are thinking of Trig and Track, or maybe Tripp.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:05 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:05 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Tagg Romney said blah, blah punch..etc...
I just see this as further signs of the damage within the Romney family tightly surrounding Mittsy protectively. The one within at the center now of the Romney campaign, that is being completely propped up by the Right-wing media within it's echo/chamber and closed epistemic ecosystem.
It's the reason Romney stepped in it so hard with thinking that Obama hadn't made a parallel, between Benghazi and other "acts of terror" and had to be corrected (quite gently, I might add) by Candy Crowley.
All that closed in alternative reality is a huge liability, and I hope Obama and his campaign people are working to exploit it in the third debate.
The closed epistemically Right-wing echo chamber which repeats untruths, distortions, Rovian "alternate realities" and Frank Luntz-ian focus group "buzz-terms" is so so so ripe for exploitation.
I love the karmic nature of that. It's like a closed in tribe ready to be wiped out by a wayward flu germ brought in by fur trader or something.
Within the tightly controlled environment Tagg inhabits within the innermost circle of the ROMBOT, that attitude about Obama has become normalized as fueled by the FoxNation/Drudge echo chamber myths that he's lazy and phony and cracked in the first face to fact encounter with super-wealthy CEO/Alpha-Male-Randian-Bishop Romney Sr. to bear on his "lying," Saul ALinsky, closet communist, African-American who lucked out...etc...etc...yawn.
It's fascinating to watch and I wouldn't be surprised if the Obama camp isn't already on top of trying to exploit it. Who knows..perhaps this was all part of Obama's 13 level-dimensional chess. (Yes, I added another level, cos why not?).
As for Tagg seeking office, I simply don't see it. Not in a family with such a dominant all-powerful controlling semi-deified patriarchal figure.
posted by Skygazer at 8:09 AM on October 18, 2012
I just see this as further signs of the damage within the Romney family tightly surrounding Mittsy protectively. The one within at the center now of the Romney campaign, that is being completely propped up by the Right-wing media within it's echo/chamber and closed epistemic ecosystem.
It's the reason Romney stepped in it so hard with thinking that Obama hadn't made a parallel, between Benghazi and other "acts of terror" and had to be corrected (quite gently, I might add) by Candy Crowley.
All that closed in alternative reality is a huge liability, and I hope Obama and his campaign people are working to exploit it in the third debate.
The closed epistemically Right-wing echo chamber which repeats untruths, distortions, Rovian "alternate realities" and Frank Luntz-ian focus group "buzz-terms" is so so so ripe for exploitation.
I love the karmic nature of that. It's like a closed in tribe ready to be wiped out by a wayward flu germ brought in by fur trader or something.
Within the tightly controlled environment Tagg inhabits within the innermost circle of the ROMBOT, that attitude about Obama has become normalized as fueled by the FoxNation/Drudge echo chamber myths that he's lazy and phony and cracked in the first face to fact encounter with super-wealthy CEO/Alpha-Male-Randian-Bishop Romney Sr. to bear on his "lying," Saul ALinsky, closet communist, African-American who lucked out...etc...etc...yawn.
It's fascinating to watch and I wouldn't be surprised if the Obama camp isn't already on top of trying to exploit it. Who knows..perhaps this was all part of Obama's 13 level-dimensional chess. (Yes, I added another level, cos why not?).
As for Tagg seeking office, I simply don't see it. Not in a family with such a dominant all-powerful controlling semi-deified patriarchal figure.
posted by Skygazer at 8:09 AM on October 18, 2012
But just imagine the endless parade of Oedipal angst (and Maureen Dowd columns) to come. I mean George Herbert Walker Bush only had 3 sons, only one of whom was intent (so far) on avenging his daddy's humiliation.
Imagine the oedipal angst of Marvin Bush, GHW Bush's fourth son.
posted by Herodios at 8:11 AM on October 18, 2012 [8 favorites]
Imagine the oedipal angst of Marvin Bush, GHW Bush's fourth son.
posted by Herodios at 8:11 AM on October 18, 2012 [8 favorites]
I absolutely agree Tagg would not have said this (or if he had, his dad's candidacy would be sunk) were Pres. Obama not a black man.
I don't think we can know this. Look, I absolutely detest Mitt as much as the next intensely liberal woman, but I also come from a very clannish, tight-knit family, raised with an emphasis on having your family's back, defending each other in public and chastising only in private, etc (which comes with both good and very bad, clearly), similar to how I bet the Romneys were raised. My gut reaction to Tagg's statement was...that's exactly how I would feel if my dad were running for President. It's hard to watch your dad debate with such high stakes--regardless of whom he is debating and regardless of whether he is in the wrong or the right. There's a certain gut-punch feeling that comes not from "my dad is right and this guy is wrong yet people don't get that" but from "someone is making my dad unhappy and it's hard for me to watch the man who raised me being made to look like an idiot, even if justified." That Tagg said it in public was stupid and wrong and disrespectful, certainly, but in my opinion can be explained by the stress the entire Romney family is under right now.
posted by sallybrown at 8:19 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
I don't think we can know this. Look, I absolutely detest Mitt as much as the next intensely liberal woman, but I also come from a very clannish, tight-knit family, raised with an emphasis on having your family's back, defending each other in public and chastising only in private, etc (which comes with both good and very bad, clearly), similar to how I bet the Romneys were raised. My gut reaction to Tagg's statement was...that's exactly how I would feel if my dad were running for President. It's hard to watch your dad debate with such high stakes--regardless of whom he is debating and regardless of whether he is in the wrong or the right. There's a certain gut-punch feeling that comes not from "my dad is right and this guy is wrong yet people don't get that" but from "someone is making my dad unhappy and it's hard for me to watch the man who raised me being made to look like an idiot, even if justified." That Tagg said it in public was stupid and wrong and disrespectful, certainly, but in my opinion can be explained by the stress the entire Romney family is under right now.
posted by sallybrown at 8:19 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
Ann Romney's on the View right now, and she just joked that Mitt said "Sharp and Young" and not "Sharp tongued". Haha, but you know there are a good number of people who'll believe it. I don't know if I can last through all the stuff she is about to say.
posted by cashman at 8:22 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by cashman at 8:22 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ann is asked about being pro-life, and she pivots to economic issues.
posted by cashman at 8:24 AM on October 18, 2012
posted by cashman at 8:24 AM on October 18, 2012
cashman, thanks for taking one for the team and watching.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:26 AM on October 18, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:26 AM on October 18, 2012 [7 favorites]
Ann won't even stand up for Mitt. She keeps saying she isn't going to talk about Mitt's positions (or defend them).
She got asked if access to contraception was an economic issue, and she just dodged, and said "you have to get Mitt on the couch and ask him - I'm just here to represent the character of the campaign". Weak.
posted by cashman at 8:26 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
She got asked if access to contraception was an economic issue, and she just dodged, and said "you have to get Mitt on the couch and ask him - I'm just here to represent the character of the campaign". Weak.
posted by cashman at 8:26 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
He should get a visit from the Secret Service for that remark.
No he shouldn't, you're being silly.
posted by howfar at 8:26 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
No he shouldn't, you're being silly.
posted by howfar at 8:26 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
Why does every headline about Tagg Romney's statement about "taking a swing" at the President say it was a "joke"? Every single one gives him an out by dismissing it as if he were just sticking up for his dad. This is an entire family of entitled bullies, from Mom telling the media and other Republicans to "just stop it" and now this supposed adult (in his 40's) openly saying he wanted to harm the President. I'm sorry, but a "just joking" and laugh afterwards doesn't negate what he said. And the press just says "well, he said it was a joke."
Tagg Romney Jokes About Taking A 'Swing' At Obama After Heated Debate
Tagg Romney jokes about ‘swing’ at Obama
Tagg Romney jokes that he wanted to ‘take a swing’ at Obama during Tuesday’s debate
posted by hollygoheavy at 8:28 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Tagg Romney Jokes About Taking A 'Swing' At Obama After Heated Debate
Tagg Romney jokes about ‘swing’ at Obama
Tagg Romney jokes that he wanted to ‘take a swing’ at Obama during Tuesday’s debate
posted by hollygoheavy at 8:28 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
"you have to get Mitt on the couch and ask him - I'm just here to represent the character of the campaign"
She's just as hateful as the rest of them and vague on any sort of real answer. She's definitely representing them accurately.
posted by hollygoheavy at 8:30 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
She's just as hateful as the rest of them and vague on any sort of real answer. She's definitely representing them accurately.
posted by hollygoheavy at 8:30 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
So Josh Romney (he of the death stare) is in the audience on The View, and Barbara just announced that they are going to ask him about Tagg threatening to take a swing at the president. (after the commercial)
posted by cashman at 8:30 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by cashman at 8:30 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Limiting access to contraception has everything to do with the character of the campaign.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 8:31 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 8:31 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Why does every headline about Tagg Romney's statement about "taking a swing" at the President say it was a "joke"?
Because he plainly didn't mean it seriously. It was a kinda dickish thing to say, but let's not start being, how can I put this, massive hysterical liberal caricatures about this. It's totally unimportant.
posted by howfar at 8:32 AM on October 18, 2012 [6 favorites]
Because he plainly didn't mean it seriously. It was a kinda dickish thing to say, but let's not start being, how can I put this, massive hysterical liberal caricatures about this. It's totally unimportant.
posted by howfar at 8:32 AM on October 18, 2012 [6 favorites]
I think they're calling it a joke because he was sort of mocking himself for being unrealistically hot-headed:
"But you know you can't do that because, well first because there's a lot of Secret Service between you and him, but also because this is the nature of the process, they're going to do everything they can do to try to make my dad into someone he's not. We signed up for it. We've gotta kinda sit there and take our punches and then send them right back the other way."posted by sallybrown at 8:33 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ann won't even stand up for Mitt. She keeps saying she isn't going to talk about Mitt's positions (or defend them).
That's not out of weakness or a lack of conviction in his positions. She's demonstrating the proper role the female of the species plays in Mittworld. She's a symbol, not a person. Just staying in the binder where she belongs. The anti-Hillary for sure as the "stay home and bake cookies" type, but moreso the antithesis of the uppity black woman who has no business telling our children what to eat and showing off those arms. There's a lot of "I can't wait until a real woman returns some class to the White House" commentary out there.
posted by headnsouth at 8:35 AM on October 18, 2012 [6 favorites]
That's not out of weakness or a lack of conviction in his positions. She's demonstrating the proper role the female of the species plays in Mittworld. She's a symbol, not a person. Just staying in the binder where she belongs. The anti-Hillary for sure as the "stay home and bake cookies" type, but moreso the antithesis of the uppity black woman who has no business telling our children what to eat and showing off those arms. There's a lot of "I can't wait until a real woman returns some class to the White House" commentary out there.
posted by headnsouth at 8:35 AM on October 18, 2012 [6 favorites]
Ok, I don't tend to think I'm being a "massive hysterical liberal caricature"-but my real problem with it is that the statement, joke or not, shows a complete lack of respect for the office of the President. This lack of respect for not only reporters who ask for details, moderators in a debate and other politicians who disagree with Romney is a pattern and nobody in the media seems to be calling it out. And it's not just Romney himself, it's his family.
So, as a joke, it was a completely inappropriate and unfunny one.
posted by hollygoheavy at 8:37 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
So, as a joke, it was a completely inappropriate and unfunny one.
posted by hollygoheavy at 8:37 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Josh said "that brother has slugged me a couple of times and I assure you President Obama has nothing to worry about" and then he said that it's hard to see your dad getting criticized, blah blah blah and then ended with "I think that was just something he was saying off the cuff and I assure you he didn't mean it". He (Josh) seems like a decent dude, though they had him at a weird camera angle that made him look kind of smarmy. Poor fella just isn't photogenic, but seems nice enough to me. He's a father of 4 or something.
posted by cashman at 8:37 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by cashman at 8:37 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Poor fella just isn't photogenic
Do we have to go there?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:38 AM on October 18, 2012
Do we have to go there?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:38 AM on October 18, 2012
The impulse toward fisticuffs: not a new thing at all, and I would argue it's really not racial. After all, many folks were eager to punch President Bush.
posted by GrammarMoses at 8:39 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by GrammarMoses at 8:39 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Oooh, Ann said they use the wheel of chores! Because otherwise, Ann just ended up doing it all. Ann couldn't remember who came up with it (in their household). I tried to find that wheel of chores post here that got a million favorites but I couldn't find it.
Ann said if Mitt loses, that is the end of politics for them.
posted by cashman at 8:40 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Ann said if Mitt loses, that is the end of politics for them.
posted by cashman at 8:40 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
You're thinking of the wheel of punishments, and let's not imagine the Romneys with that.
posted by psoas at 8:43 AM on October 18, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by psoas at 8:43 AM on October 18, 2012 [4 favorites]
Poor fella just isn't photogenic
Chill. I said a couple of times he seems like a nice person. I have seen him twice now, and once he looked super scary, and this time he looks like a Mean Girls villain because of the camera angle. I wasn't saying anything bad about the guy, he really looks and seems like a nice person. I was really just saying he's having bad luck with cameras lately.
posted by cashman at 8:43 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
Chill. I said a couple of times he seems like a nice person. I have seen him twice now, and once he looked super scary, and this time he looks like a Mean Girls villain because of the camera angle. I wasn't saying anything bad about the guy, he really looks and seems like a nice person. I was really just saying he's having bad luck with cameras lately.
posted by cashman at 8:43 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
gladly: "Salon interview with Fenton after asking her question."
After having to close her twitter account due to Romney supporters being jackasses, she *still* is undecided? How does she get dressed in the morning?
posted by notsnot at 8:45 AM on October 18, 2012 [8 favorites]
After having to close her twitter account due to Romney supporters being jackasses, she *still* is undecided? How does she get dressed in the morning?
posted by notsnot at 8:45 AM on October 18, 2012 [8 favorites]
After all, many folks were eager to punch President Bush.
Exactly. I'd have loved to pop that arse right in his smug Bagpuss looking face, and I'd have been happy to say it. Would saying that show disrespect for the office of president? No, it'd show I thought that Bush was a dick. Taggart thinks Obama's a dick. He's wrong and I'm right, but that's beside the point.
posted by howfar at 8:46 AM on October 18, 2012
Exactly. I'd have loved to pop that arse right in his smug Bagpuss looking face, and I'd have been happy to say it. Would saying that show disrespect for the office of president? No, it'd show I thought that Bush was a dick. Taggart thinks Obama's a dick. He's wrong and I'm right, but that's beside the point.
posted by howfar at 8:46 AM on October 18, 2012
Yeah, but if my dad were running against W. for president I sure as hell wouldn't have given an interview saying I wanted to punch him. That's just common sense. My preteen sister could have told you that.
posted by Phire at 8:48 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Phire at 8:48 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Ann said if Mitt loses, that is the end of politics for them.
I think this is very telling, and I think it's a good part of Romney's underlying weakness. Mittens doesn't really want to BE president. He wants to win the presidential election, and he wants to "avenge his dad" maybe, and do favours for his friends no doubt, but he's not actually a politician. He's a rich guy playing at politics. This is also why he'd be a terrible disaster if he won.
posted by howfar at 8:50 AM on October 18, 2012 [15 favorites]
I think this is very telling, and I think it's a good part of Romney's underlying weakness. Mittens doesn't really want to BE president. He wants to win the presidential election, and he wants to "avenge his dad" maybe, and do favours for his friends no doubt, but he's not actually a politician. He's a rich guy playing at politics. This is also why he'd be a terrible disaster if he won.
posted by howfar at 8:50 AM on October 18, 2012 [15 favorites]
> Ann said if Mitt loses, that is the end of politics for them.
... and Ryan, too? Will he go the way of Palin?
posted by de at 8:52 AM on October 18, 2012
... and Ryan, too? Will he go the way of Palin?
posted by de at 8:52 AM on October 18, 2012
Ann won't even stand up for Mitt. She keeps saying she isn't going to talk about Mitt's positions (or defend them).
She probably just hasn't received the day's new etch-a-sketch positions yet.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:52 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
She probably just hasn't received the day's new etch-a-sketch positions yet.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:52 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
Yeah, but if my dad were running against W. for president I sure as hell wouldn't have given an interview saying I wanted to punch him.
Of course. But you and you're sister probably aren't dicks. Taggart seems to be a total dick. But what's surprising about that? Have you noticed his father at all? By all means call Taggart a dick for being a dick saying dickish things, but don't let's blow this up into anything more than it is.
posted by howfar at 8:53 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Of course. But you and you're sister probably aren't dicks. Taggart seems to be a total dick. But what's surprising about that? Have you noticed his father at all? By all means call Taggart a dick for being a dick saying dickish things, but don't let's blow this up into anything more than it is.
posted by howfar at 8:53 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
The West Wing covered the Presidential Threat situation in season 1, "Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc":
LEOposted by ceribus peribus at 8:55 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
There oughta be a law against it.
TOBY
There is a law against it.
JOSH
Why'd you get him started?
Leo shrugs.
TOBY
How about threatening the life of the President? He was talking to other people, how about conspiracy? Those were military officers, how about treason?!
JOSH
Toby.
TOBY
That was a member of our own party Leo. That was a [pounds fist on Leo's desk] Democrat who said that!
LEO
It's bad, I know.
TOBY
That's it?
LEO
Well, what are you gonna do?
TOBY
Have the Justice Department bring him in for questioning pending felony charges.
JOSH
Toby's right. What's the good of being in power if you're not gonna haul your enemies in for questioning?
DICKS
posted by cashman at 8:55 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by cashman at 8:55 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Decoding Romney on Contraception
In Conference Call, Romney Urged Employers To Tell Employees How To Vote
Brad DeLong: The Scary Thing Is I Could Write A 1000-Word Study With Tables And Charts Projecting That The Romney Plan Will Generate 12 Million Jobs Before 2017
Mitt Romney Didn't Say What He Actually Said
The RAND 2012 Continuous Election Poll: links to excel sheets.
Bissinger vs Bouie on Supporting Mitt Romney
RIP Town Hall Debates
Romney's Five Sons and Their Role In The Campaign
Reason
Obama's Lack of Vision
Obama Not Giving Up On Southern Swing States
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:55 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
In Conference Call, Romney Urged Employers To Tell Employees How To Vote
Brad DeLong: The Scary Thing Is I Could Write A 1000-Word Study With Tables And Charts Projecting That The Romney Plan Will Generate 12 Million Jobs Before 2017
Mitt Romney Didn't Say What He Actually Said
The RAND 2012 Continuous Election Poll: links to excel sheets.
Bissinger vs Bouie on Supporting Mitt Romney
Last week, Friday Night Lights author Buzz Bissinger caused a bit of a stir when he announced that he was backing Mitt Romney. When the conversation moved to Twitter, things got a little heated, especially between Bissinger and American Prospect writer Jamelle Bouie. After Bissinger challenged Bouie — "Let's debate on any policy subject" — we suggested an Instant Politics match-up to settle the dispute, once and for all.CSMonitor
RIP Town Hall Debates
Romney's Five Sons and Their Role In The Campaign
Reason
Obama's Lack of Vision
Obama Not Giving Up On Southern Swing States
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:55 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
After having to close her twitter account due to Romney supporters being jackasses, she *still* is undecided? How does she get dressed in the morning?
I'm fine with people being undecided. I'm less fine with conservatives writing a hit piece on a young woman who dared to ask about equal pay and harrassing her until she closed her twitter account. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, but I am, at the difference between coverage of Jeremy Epstein (first question of the Town Hall) and that of Katherine Fenton. When even the National Republican Policy Chairman is tweeting her, even while his candidate is supposed to be shoring up support among women, I don't understand why her harrassment has been ignored.
posted by gladly at 8:57 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm fine with people being undecided. I'm less fine with conservatives writing a hit piece on a young woman who dared to ask about equal pay and harrassing her until she closed her twitter account. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, but I am, at the difference between coverage of Jeremy Epstein (first question of the Town Hall) and that of Katherine Fenton. When even the National Republican Policy Chairman is tweeting her, even while his candidate is supposed to be shoring up support among women, I don't understand why her harrassment has been ignored.
posted by gladly at 8:57 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Giving Tagg the benefit of the doubt, it's still a huge mess of dogwhistles and unpleasantness even if that's all unintentional. There's already a context and culture of conservatives acting like Obama doesn't deserve to be treated with the respect due his position, even high-level sitting Republicans who damn well know better. And "it was a joke" is not far removed from that time-honored fallback of bullies and bigots, "what, you can't take a joke?"
And, even without all that, there's no way around the fact that it looks awful - IS awful - when a rich white man at the pinnacle of privilege doesn't afford a black person the respect they deserve as a person and have earned by their character, intelligence and hard work. Especially when their character, intelligence and hard work have earned them the historic position of first black POTUS.
Give Tagg the benefit of the doubt, take it at face value, and he was still immensely disrespectful, stupid and blind to race relations to say that, and it absolutely invites questions about why this grown man turned out this way.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:01 AM on October 18, 2012 [24 favorites]
And, even without all that, there's no way around the fact that it looks awful - IS awful - when a rich white man at the pinnacle of privilege doesn't afford a black person the respect they deserve as a person and have earned by their character, intelligence and hard work. Especially when their character, intelligence and hard work have earned them the historic position of first black POTUS.
Give Tagg the benefit of the doubt, take it at face value, and he was still immensely disrespectful, stupid and blind to race relations to say that, and it absolutely invites questions about why this grown man turned out this way.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:01 AM on October 18, 2012 [24 favorites]
Ann said they use the wheel of chores! Because otherwise, Ann just ended up doing it all.
The problem with the Romney family is that every time they try to tell a story to "humanize" the guy, he ends up sounding like a dick. He:
posted by deanc at 9:01 AM on October 18, 2012 [37 favorites]
The problem with the Romney family is that every time they try to tell a story to "humanize" the guy, he ends up sounding like a dick. He:
- Leaves his wife to end up doing all the chores by default
- On a 12 hour family road trip, decreed that there would only be one rest stop (I'm not even addressing the dog issue)
- Organizes a family triathlon that includes his recently-having-given-birth daughter-in-law and decided that the most important thing was to make sure he beat her, no the point where he can't move for several hours because he pushed himself so hard
- Would push his sons' faces into butter as a prank but according to his son, "he doesn't like to get pranked. We've learned that the hard way," referring to when Romney tackled and pinned his son for pulling off a similar prank.
posted by deanc at 9:01 AM on October 18, 2012 [37 favorites]
jason_steakums said exactly what I meant, but in a far more articulate way
posted by hollygoheavy at 9:11 AM on October 18, 2012
posted by hollygoheavy at 9:11 AM on October 18, 2012
After having to close her twitter account due to Romney supporters being jackasses, she *still* is undecided? How does she get dressed in the morning?
This isn't fair, come on. We don't know who she's trying to decide between (maybe she's "Obama vs. Jill Stein", or "Obama vs. the Libertarians", or maybe "vote Obama vs. don't vote at all because fuck this shit"); or maybe she's just saying she's undecided because she doesn't want any more hassle and I don't blame her for that if she is.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:24 AM on October 18, 2012 [10 favorites]
This isn't fair, come on. We don't know who she's trying to decide between (maybe she's "Obama vs. Jill Stein", or "Obama vs. the Libertarians", or maybe "vote Obama vs. don't vote at all because fuck this shit"); or maybe she's just saying she's undecided because she doesn't want any more hassle and I don't blame her for that if she is.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:24 AM on October 18, 2012 [10 favorites]
There's already a context and culture of conservatives acting like Obama doesn't deserve to be treated with the respect due his position, even high-level sitting Republicans who damn well know better . . .
. . . there's no way around the fact that it looks awful - IS awful - when a rich white man at the pinnacle of privilege doesn't afford a black person the respect they deserve as a person and have earned by their character, intelligence and hard work. Especially when their character, intelligence and hard work have earned them the historic position of first black POTUS.
It seems to me that there are quite a few people in positions of power and influence -- people who see themselves in an historic light -- who willl in fact be remembered in history for their words and deeds during the Obama Administration -- just not in the way they likely envision it.
posted by Herodios at 9:25 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
. . . there's no way around the fact that it looks awful - IS awful - when a rich white man at the pinnacle of privilege doesn't afford a black person the respect they deserve as a person and have earned by their character, intelligence and hard work. Especially when their character, intelligence and hard work have earned them the historic position of first black POTUS.
It seems to me that there are quite a few people in positions of power and influence -- people who see themselves in an historic light -- who willl in fact be remembered in history for their words and deeds during the Obama Administration -- just not in the way they likely envision it.
posted by Herodios at 9:25 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
sallybrown, I'm not challenging that one would *feel* that way in defense of one's family member. Hell, there have been plenty of times I've wanted to slap GOP candidates.
The thing is, if you were well raised and politically smart, at least, you wouldn't *say* such a thing into a radio microphone when your father was running for president. And if you did, you wouldn't get away with it if you were black and the president were white.
posted by spitbull at 9:27 AM on October 18, 2012
The thing is, if you were well raised and politically smart, at least, you wouldn't *say* such a thing into a radio microphone when your father was running for president. And if you did, you wouldn't get away with it if you were black and the president were white.
posted by spitbull at 9:27 AM on October 18, 2012
Ann said they use the wheel of chores! Because otherwise, Ann just ended up doing it all.
What kind of chores do multimillionaires have? Tidying the stacks of gold bars and bossing the help?
posted by winna at 9:28 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
What kind of chores do multimillionaires have? Tidying the stacks of gold bars and bossing the help?
posted by winna at 9:28 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
What kind of chores do multimillionaires have? Tidying the stacks of gold bars and bossing the help?
The help weren't around because it was her, Mitt and 30 family members at a lake house somewhere. So afterward they would have to clean up - and they made the wheel (sorry for conflating it with the wheel of punishments) because otherwise Ann got stuck doing it all.
Which actually shows that once again, Mitt is a huge jackass.
posted by cashman at 9:30 AM on October 18, 2012 [4 favorites]
The help weren't around because it was her, Mitt and 30 family members at a lake house somewhere. So afterward they would have to clean up - and they made the wheel (sorry for conflating it with the wheel of punishments) because otherwise Ann got stuck doing it all.
Which actually shows that once again, Mitt is a huge jackass.
posted by cashman at 9:30 AM on October 18, 2012 [4 favorites]
the man of twists and turns: Bissinger vs Bouie on Supporting Mitt Romney
Oh my, that was particularly painful. The almost total lack of coherent or logical thought on Bissinger's part was hard to believe. Approaching parody territory.
He'd be well-advised to avoid such confrontations in the future, if he gives a hoot about his reputation. Embarrassingly inane.
posted by syzygy at 9:31 AM on October 18, 2012
Oh my, that was particularly painful. The almost total lack of coherent or logical thought on Bissinger's part was hard to believe. Approaching parody territory.
He'd be well-advised to avoid such confrontations in the future, if he gives a hoot about his reputation. Embarrassingly inane.
posted by syzygy at 9:31 AM on October 18, 2012
It's Funny Because We're White
Ta-Nehisi Coates
Mitt Romney's eldest son joked in a radio interview that he wanted to "take a swing" at President Barack Obama after Obama called his father a liar. "Jump out of your seat and you want to rush down to the stage and take a swing at him," Tagg said, laughing.
"But you know you can't do that because, well, first because there's a lot of Secret Service between you and him, but also because that's the nature of the process."
Yes because a good whippin' would teach that Obama boy to mind his place.
It's worth trying to imagine any black man associated with a credible black candidate for the presidency, joking about beating down the incumbent president of the United States. Racism isn't just in what you do and don't say, but in the terrain you walk. It is baked in the cake -- a fact which is hard to understand when you are the party of white people.
posted by spitbull at 9:34 AM on October 18, 2012 [21 favorites]
Ta-Nehisi Coates
Mitt Romney's eldest son joked in a radio interview that he wanted to "take a swing" at President Barack Obama after Obama called his father a liar. "Jump out of your seat and you want to rush down to the stage and take a swing at him," Tagg said, laughing.
"But you know you can't do that because, well, first because there's a lot of Secret Service between you and him, but also because that's the nature of the process."
Yes because a good whippin' would teach that Obama boy to mind his place.
It's worth trying to imagine any black man associated with a credible black candidate for the presidency, joking about beating down the incumbent president of the United States. Racism isn't just in what you do and don't say, but in the terrain you walk. It is baked in the cake -- a fact which is hard to understand when you are the party of white people.
posted by spitbull at 9:34 AM on October 18, 2012 [21 favorites]
Organizes a family triathlon that includes his recently-having-given-birth daughter-in-law and decided that the most important thing was to make sure he beat her
See also: The Great Santini.
posted by Herodios at 9:37 AM on October 18, 2012 [5 favorites]
See also: The Great Santini.
posted by Herodios at 9:37 AM on October 18, 2012 [5 favorites]
Also, who for a minute thinks the Romney family does not have portable "help" who come along on things like 30-person family retreats to the Lake House?
Dude is worth 300 million dollars. I will bet ten thousand dollars he doesn't wipe his own damn ass.
posted by spitbull at 9:39 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Dude is worth 300 million dollars. I will bet ten thousand dollars he doesn't wipe his own damn ass.
posted by spitbull at 9:39 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Obama’s plan: Push Republicans off the fiscal cliff
If the Obama administration were to really lay out their plans, they would go something like this. In November, President Obama will reiterate, clearly and firmly, that he will veto any attempts to extend the high-income tax cuts or lift the big, dumb spending cuts without finding equivalent savings elsewhere. In fact, as my colleague Lori Montgomery reports, they’re already reiterating that promise.posted by syzygy at 9:39 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
That veto threat is the center of the Obama administration’s second-term strategizing. The Obama administration believes – and, just as importantly, they believe Republicans believe — that they’ve got the leverage here. The Republican position on taxes is less popular than the Democratic position. The outcome of gridlock is much higher taxes, which is more anathema to Republicans and arguably cheering to Democrats. The big, dumb spending cuts, despite being poorly timed and inanely constructed, are very progressive in their effect, falling heavily on military spending while exempting Medicaid, Social Security, and Medicare beneficiaries.
I have watched several of Obama's speeches the last few weeks since the first debate. Anybody who has seen the President's speeches this year knows that when he reports on something ridiculous or horrible that the Romney campaign or republicans do, people often boo, and his response is "Don't boo - - vote!".
I watched one yesterday I think, and he was in Iowa. Same thing - "Don't boo, ....vote!" Well today in New Hampshire, he did it, and it was pretty much the same thing. And he said "I think you're gettin it". And then about 5 minutes later, he brought up something like how Mitt Romney still wouldn't say if he supports the Lily Ledbetter act or still supports an act that would have employers making contraception choices for employees. And people started chanting "vote! vote! vote!" and the president even seemed like he realized it morphed - now it's basically conditioning you so that the more you hear reports of the things Mitt is proposing, the more you learn about him bringing crazy people on his staff, the more you learn about him wanting to cut funding for planned parenthood or cut funding for PBS, you think "vote! vote! vote!". As opposed to only thinking "man I can't wait to see The Daily Show cover that".
posted by cashman at 9:45 AM on October 18, 2012 [33 favorites]
I watched one yesterday I think, and he was in Iowa. Same thing - "Don't boo, ....vote!" Well today in New Hampshire, he did it, and it was pretty much the same thing. And he said "I think you're gettin it". And then about 5 minutes later, he brought up something like how Mitt Romney still wouldn't say if he supports the Lily Ledbetter act or still supports an act that would have employers making contraception choices for employees. And people started chanting "vote! vote! vote!" and the president even seemed like he realized it morphed - now it's basically conditioning you so that the more you hear reports of the things Mitt is proposing, the more you learn about him bringing crazy people on his staff, the more you learn about him wanting to cut funding for planned parenthood or cut funding for PBS, you think "vote! vote! vote!". As opposed to only thinking "man I can't wait to see The Daily Show cover that".
posted by cashman at 9:45 AM on October 18, 2012 [33 favorites]
Organizes a family triathlon that includes his recently-having-given-birth daughter-in-law and decided that the most important thing was to make sure he beat her, no the point where he can't move for several hours because he pushed himself so hard
Just read this article. Thank you Lord for not making me a Romney - my family drives me crazy sometimes, but this truly sounds like the worst family vacation I could possibly imagine.
posted by naoko at 9:58 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
Just read this article. Thank you Lord for not making me a Romney - my family drives me crazy sometimes, but this truly sounds like the worst family vacation I could possibly imagine.
posted by naoko at 9:58 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
But what's surprising about that? Have you noticed his father at all?
People aren't their parents though. I haven't done a ton of research, but at first glance Mitt himself is different from his father who was in favour of extending civil rights, ensuring housing for the poor, introducing income taxes etc.
posted by ersatz at 10:00 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
People aren't their parents though. I haven't done a ton of research, but at first glance Mitt himself is different from his father who was in favour of extending civil rights, ensuring housing for the poor, introducing income taxes etc.
posted by ersatz at 10:00 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
A woman is then heard recommending that his wife Ann appear on The View to help stop people thinking of Romney as a "rich guy".
Oh, Ann. When you and Mitt lined up your grandchildren on stage, so that their t-shirts (with yours) spelled out 'R MONEY', it does little to help people not think of you and your family as being incredibly wealthy and privileged. The photo is 'oh-so-funny!'
posted by ericb at 10:01 AM on October 18, 2012
Oh, Ann. When you and Mitt lined up your grandchildren on stage, so that their t-shirts (with yours) spelled out 'R MONEY', it does little to help people not think of you and your family as being incredibly wealthy and privileged. The photo is 'oh-so-funny!'
posted by ericb at 10:01 AM on October 18, 2012
ericb, that's a photoshop.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:02 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:02 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Damn. Is it? Well, if so, it's not far out of character for Flip and his wife, Flop.
posted by ericb at 10:04 AM on October 18, 2012
posted by ericb at 10:04 AM on October 18, 2012
sallybrown: "My gut reaction to Tagg's statement was...that's exactly how I would feel if my dad were running for President. "
Yeah, but that's your gut. I have a lot of gut feelings that get surpressed because that's the lizard brain talking. You don't put it out there for the world to feel awkward about.
posted by boo_radley at 10:06 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah, but that's your gut. I have a lot of gut feelings that get surpressed because that's the lizard brain talking. You don't put it out there for the world to feel awkward about.
posted by boo_radley at 10:06 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
ericb: "Damn. Is it? Well, if so, it's not far out of character for Flip and his wife, Flop."
Glurge runs both ways. Funny times, huh?
posted by boo_radley at 10:07 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Glurge runs both ways. Funny times, huh?
posted by boo_radley at 10:07 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Rachel Maddow absolutely tears into right-wing press for their conspiracy theories, and it is beautiful:
Barack Obama was born in Hawaii; the unemployment rate is below eight percent; the day after the Benghazi attack the president called it an 'act of terror.'posted by Phire at 10:10 AM on October 18, 2012 [20 favorites]
Do whatever you need to do to make yourself feel better, but do not confuse your World Net Daily caliber, therapeutic, conservative alternative reality fantasy babble for what actually happened. Because stuff really does actually happen, and eventually you really do need to deal with it.
The Ultimate Mitt Romney Flip-Flop Collection.
posted by ericb at 10:10 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by ericb at 10:10 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
drezdn: “Any guesses on what this is?”
A page that doesn't scale very well. Also, a gimmick which will mean absolutely nothing. It's bound to be one of the pieces of ammunition we here are aware of that hasn't been widely publicized – some flub by Obama or some extraneous thing like Tagg over there saying he wanted to deck the president.
posted by koeselitz at 10:11 AM on October 18, 2012
A page that doesn't scale very well. Also, a gimmick which will mean absolutely nothing. It's bound to be one of the pieces of ammunition we here are aware of that hasn't been widely publicized – some flub by Obama or some extraneous thing like Tagg over there saying he wanted to deck the president.
posted by koeselitz at 10:11 AM on October 18, 2012
Any guesses on what this is?
Gawker seems to think it's tax stuff, probably Romney's. Fark seems to think it's a hoax that someone put together with GIS and a blur tool. Or maybe it's a Breitbart thing run by some guys who did some stunt involving Radiohead. Who the fuck knows?
posted by zombieflanders at 10:12 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Gawker seems to think it's tax stuff, probably Romney's. Fark seems to think it's a hoax that someone put together with GIS and a blur tool. Or maybe it's a Breitbart thing run by some guys who did some stunt involving Radiohead. Who the fuck knows?
posted by zombieflanders at 10:12 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah, but that's your gut. I have a lot of gut feelings that get surpressed because that's the lizard brain talking. You don't put it out there for the world to feel awkward about.
I totally agree--under normal circumstances that's the kind of stuff you think in your own head and ignore. I guess I think the likely stress, sleep deprivation, rollercoaster emotions, etc that come with a family member running for President make this more understandable (not excusable, just easier to understand and not take quite so offensively).
I do agree with Ta-Nehisi Coates and others here that if the races of the players were reversed (if Obama had an adult son and Romney were the sitting President) the commentariat would be all "oooh Son Obama threatens violence in 'gangsta' move" or some other such nonsense.
posted by sallybrown at 10:13 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
I totally agree--under normal circumstances that's the kind of stuff you think in your own head and ignore. I guess I think the likely stress, sleep deprivation, rollercoaster emotions, etc that come with a family member running for President make this more understandable (not excusable, just easier to understand and not take quite so offensively).
I do agree with Ta-Nehisi Coates and others here that if the races of the players were reversed (if Obama had an adult son and Romney were the sitting President) the commentariat would be all "oooh Son Obama threatens violence in 'gangsta' move" or some other such nonsense.
posted by sallybrown at 10:13 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Blue States are from Scandinavia, Red States are from Guatemala
One of the campaign’s most contentious issues is the Affordable Care Act (ACA)—the legislation that finally mended a gaping hole in the American safety net. Yet already this year, more than a dozen Republican governors have called upon their states to reject or resist the ACA. If they get their way, Americans living in states that implement the ACA will effectively have a right to health insurance. Americans living in the anti-ACA states would not. Now, Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan are vowing not only to repeal the ACA altogether, but to turn vast swaths of public policy—including Medicaid, food stamps, and housing—over to the states.posted by zombieflanders at 10:15 AM on October 18, 2012 [10 favorites]
This promise gets little attention, but it is one of the most radical parts of their agenda. It would entail a massive transfer of authority away from Washington, arguably unprecedented in U.S. history, in which states would get a lot less federal money for welfare programs and a lot more power over how big those programs should be. The blue states might scrape up the money to replace existing federal funds on their own. Red states would almost surely seize the opportunity to pare back the already meager assistance they provide. Tens of millions of Americans would likely lose health insurance. Millions more would likely lose access to food stamps, the program that has become the primary safety net during the Great Recession.
Romney and Ryan like to say that giving states more autonomy would encourage innovative and efficient solutions to social problems. But what their agenda would really do is undermine modern standards of economic security, creating among the red states a region in which government doesn’t even try to guarantee that everybody can pay for basic necessities of life. It would do nothing less than change the postwar definition of what it means to be an American.
Any guesses on what this [octsurprise.com] is?
According to this lookup tool, the only other site hosted at that address (72.167.41.124) is pausetime.com, which is a "chicago based web site design" shop with a ridiculously bad flash-based homepage. Could be a shared server or an anonymous forward or something, but if that were the case I'd expect there would be more than one other site popping up. So for now I'm betting on viral marketing campaign.
Also, although the text says "One of your presidential candidates isn't being honest with you," the meta tag and Twitter link say "At least one of your presidential candidates isn't being honest with you," which makes it sound less like a real thing.
posted by jhc at 10:18 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
According to this lookup tool, the only other site hosted at that address (72.167.41.124) is pausetime.com, which is a "chicago based web site design" shop with a ridiculously bad flash-based homepage. Could be a shared server or an anonymous forward or something, but if that were the case I'd expect there would be more than one other site popping up. So for now I'm betting on viral marketing campaign.
Also, although the text says "One of your presidential candidates isn't being honest with you," the meta tag and Twitter link say "At least one of your presidential candidates isn't being honest with you," which makes it sound less like a real thing.
posted by jhc at 10:18 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
drezdn:I hope it's this:Any guesses on what this is?
Mitt Romney's Bailout Bonanza, Greg Palast, The Nation, 17 October, 2012
Mitt Romney’s opposition to the auto bailout has haunted him on the campaign trail, especially in Rust Belt states like Ohio. There, in September, the Obama campaign launched television ads blasting Romney’s November 2008 New York Times op-ed, “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt.” But Romney has done a good job of concealing, until now, the fact that he and his wife, Ann, personally gained at least $15.3 million from the bailout—and a few of Romney’s most important Wall Street donors made more than $4 billion. Their gains, and the Romneys’, were astronomical—more than 3,000 percent on their investment.posted by ob1quixote at 10:20 AM on October 18, 2012 [5 favorites]
Oh, I left out the punch-line of that Greg Palast article:
After the hedge fund takeover of Delphi, the squeeze on workers intensified through attacks on their pensions. During its years of economic trouble, Delphi had been chronically shorting payments to its pension funds—and by July 2009, they were underfunded by $7 billion. That month, Singer’s hedge fund group won the bid for control of Delphi’s stock and made clear they would neither make up the shortfall nor pay any more US worker pensions. Checkmated by the hedge funders, the government’s Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation agreed to take over Delphi’s pension payments. The PBGC would eat the shortfall.posted by ob1quixote at 10:27 AM on October 18, 2012 [8 favorites]
With Delphi’s new owners relieved of its healthcare and pension obligations, its debts to GM and its union contracts— and now loaded with subsidies from GM funded by TARP—the company’s market value rose from zero to approximately $10.5 billion today.
* * *
But there was still a bit of unfinished business: President Obama needed to be blamed for the pension disaster. In a television ad airing in swing states since September, one retired Delphi manager says, “The Obama administration decided to terminate my pension, and I took a 40 percent reduction in my pension.”
Rachel Maddow absolutely tears into right-wing press for their conspiracy theories, and it is beautiful
I was going to post this too. It's refreshing to hear someone call out PolitiFact like she did.
posted by homunculus at 10:28 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
I was going to post this too. It's refreshing to hear someone call out PolitiFact like she did.
posted by homunculus at 10:28 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Mitt Romney's Bailout Bonanza, Greg Palast, The Nation, 17 October, 2012
Wait, doesn't this make Romney look good, opposing something on principle that would benefit him financially? (I don't agree with his principle, so don't flame me, bro!) He would look worse if he stood to make money on the bankruptcy, right?
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:28 AM on October 18, 2012
Wait, doesn't this make Romney look good, opposing something on principle that would benefit him financially? (I don't agree with his principle, so don't flame me, bro!) He would look worse if he stood to make money on the bankruptcy, right?
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:28 AM on October 18, 2012
Any guesses on what this is?
A ski resort!
posted by cortex at 10:28 AM on October 18, 2012 [7 favorites]
A ski resort!
posted by cortex at 10:28 AM on October 18, 2012 [7 favorites]
Any guesses on what this is?
A ski resort!
Yeah, basically. To quote Fark user appropriately named I_C Weener:
posted by muddgirl at 10:31 AM on October 18, 2012 [5 favorites]
A ski resort!
Yeah, basically. To quote Fark user appropriately named I_C Weener:
Generally an October surprise is well, a surprise. It isn't advertised ahead of time. And generally, it involves either a scoop story of scandal for one party, or a military exercise in a wag the dog type deflection.Telegraphing your 'surprise' ahead of time gives the competition a chance to track it down and re-orient ahead of the release. This is either a Rickroll or viral marketing.
It isn't often a Mayan countdown to something.
posted by muddgirl at 10:31 AM on October 18, 2012 [5 favorites]
George W was a frat boy, but mostly harmless. A kegger kind of fellow, who'd drink and cut up and laugh too loud and probably do some stupid things but just for the hell of it. It's easy to see him standing there around a bonfire with a red cup, laughing at some stupid joke and making winsome eyes at some husband hunter.
Romney is a frat boy too, but he's the worst kind. Not a silly drunk, an angry drunk. Mean, spiteful, cruel, obsessed with power and not afraid to use any tactic to get more. Romney wouldn't use a red cup, he'd drink from the bottle, and it would be JD or Captain, and his beady eyes would narrow as he directed his cronies in some cruel hazing ritual, yelling at the pledges to stop being sissies.
The thing is that the W presidency was bad, but it could have been so much worse if W actually cared about anything but having a good time (1000+ days of vacation, people).
Romney cares about nothing but being in charge and once he gets to be in charge he will turn the situation into a frat house all over again, with his Brothers and the Pledges and the Fucking Losers across the quad, and the Back Room Buds who bankroll the party girls, and he will shout down the UN for interrupting and he will push Iran's face in the butter and he will tell Europe that it will get a chance but he is talking now.
He's a cruel man. And if he's elected, the US will become a cruel country.
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:31 AM on October 18, 2012 [29 favorites]
Romney is a frat boy too, but he's the worst kind. Not a silly drunk, an angry drunk. Mean, spiteful, cruel, obsessed with power and not afraid to use any tactic to get more. Romney wouldn't use a red cup, he'd drink from the bottle, and it would be JD or Captain, and his beady eyes would narrow as he directed his cronies in some cruel hazing ritual, yelling at the pledges to stop being sissies.
The thing is that the W presidency was bad, but it could have been so much worse if W actually cared about anything but having a good time (1000+ days of vacation, people).
Romney cares about nothing but being in charge and once he gets to be in charge he will turn the situation into a frat house all over again, with his Brothers and the Pledges and the Fucking Losers across the quad, and the Back Room Buds who bankroll the party girls, and he will shout down the UN for interrupting and he will push Iran's face in the butter and he will tell Europe that it will get a chance but he is talking now.
He's a cruel man. And if he's elected, the US will become a cruel country.
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:31 AM on October 18, 2012 [29 favorites]
Any guesses on what this is?
Someone at Gawker pointed out that the countdown ends 90 minutes before the foreign policy debate on Monday. Strange timing...
posted by sallybrown at 10:31 AM on October 18, 2012
Someone at Gawker pointed out that the countdown ends 90 minutes before the foreign policy debate on Monday. Strange timing...
posted by sallybrown at 10:31 AM on October 18, 2012
Just got a flier on my door explaining how Obama will personally seize my 401k (good luck with that, as I don't have one) and use it to fund the muslim brotherhood. This should be a "fun" three weeks.
posted by drezdn at 10:35 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 10:35 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Got a scan drezdn?
posted by boo_radley at 10:53 AM on October 18, 2012
posted by boo_radley at 10:53 AM on October 18, 2012
A Message from Bruce Springsteen
Right now, there is a choice going on in America, and I’m happy that we live in a country where we all participate in that process. For me, President Obama is our best choice because he has a vision of the United States as a place where we are all in this together. We’re still living through very hard times but justice, equality and real freedom are not always a tide rushing in. They are more often a slow march, inch by inch, day after long day. I believe President Obama feels these days in his bones and has the strength to live them with us and to lead us to a country “…where no one crowds you and no one goes it alone.”posted by Babblesort at 10:55 AM on October 18, 2012 [12 favorites]
That’s why I plan to be in Ohio and Iowa supporting the re-election of President Obama to lead our country for the next four years.
-Bruce Springsteen
Just got a flier on my door explaining how Obama will personally seize my 401k (good luck with that, as I don't have one) and use it to fund the muslim brotherhood.
*snerk* You've reminded me of 4 years ago, right about now, when my mother was telling me about a conversation she'd had with my aunt and uncle in Arizona where they sputtered that "If Obama gets elected he's going to make all us women wear burquas!"
"So," my mother sweetly concluded, "I've decided I'm just not going to talk to them any more for a few weeks....."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:00 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
*snerk* You've reminded me of 4 years ago, right about now, when my mother was telling me about a conversation she'd had with my aunt and uncle in Arizona where they sputtered that "If Obama gets elected he's going to make all us women wear burquas!"
"So," my mother sweetly concluded, "I've decided I'm just not going to talk to them any more for a few weeks....."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:00 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
"Secretly gay married to a bunch of guys he killed!"
omg
Hahahaha
posted by edgeways at 11:11 AM on October 18, 2012
omg
Hahahaha
posted by edgeways at 11:11 AM on October 18, 2012
The mother of a Navy SEAL killed in the Benghazi attack objects to Romney exploiting her dead son for cheap political points. "I don’t trust Romney. He shouldn’t make my son’s death part of his political agenda. It’s wrong to use these brave young men, who wanted freedom for all, to degrade Obama."
posted by headnsouth at 11:18 AM on October 18, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by headnsouth at 11:18 AM on October 18, 2012 [6 favorites]
The thing is that the W presidency was bad, but it could have been so much worse if W actually cared about anything but having a good time (1000+ days of vacation, people).
He cared about getting back at the guy who tried to kill his dad.
And now there's this: Iraq records huge rise in birth defects - New study links increase with military action by Western forces
posted by homunculus at 11:27 AM on October 18, 2012
He cared about getting back at the guy who tried to kill his dad.
And now there's this: Iraq records huge rise in birth defects - New study links increase with military action by Western forces
posted by homunculus at 11:27 AM on October 18, 2012
Got a scan drezdn?
I crumpled it up after failing in trying to figure out what organization is behind it.
posted by drezdn at 11:28 AM on October 18, 2012
I crumpled it up after failing in trying to figure out what organization is behind it.
posted by drezdn at 11:28 AM on October 18, 2012
What is it with conspiracy theorists and the conviction that Democratic presidents have people killed?
posted by running order squabble fest at 11:33 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by running order squabble fest at 11:33 AM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
You know that tell where the Republicans accuse their opponents of exactly what the Republican candidate is doing or planning on doing?
Yeah...
posted by amuseDetachment at 11:36 AM on October 18, 2012 [5 favorites]
Yeah...
posted by amuseDetachment at 11:36 AM on October 18, 2012 [5 favorites]
Just got a flier on my door explaining how Obama will personally seize my 401k (good luck with that, as I don't have one) and use it to fund the muslim brotherhood. This should be a "fun" three weeks.
Win for you! The Moslem Brotherhood are going to be *pissed* if Obama doesn't put you personally in a position to invest in one. It's virtually guaranteed.
Vote Obama for a great job for you.
posted by jaduncan at 11:38 AM on October 18, 2012
Win for you! The Moslem Brotherhood are going to be *pissed* if Obama doesn't put you personally in a position to invest in one. It's virtually guaranteed.
Vote Obama for a great job for you.
posted by jaduncan at 11:38 AM on October 18, 2012
A lot of moderate pundits are criticizing Obama for not campaigning on his second term agenda. Not entirely true -- he talks about investments in education and R&D, increasing taxes on the wealthy, middle class cuts, leaving Afghanistan, and deficit reduction in vague terms -- but basically correct.
The difference is, unlike Romney, he actually has an agenda. I'm honestly not sure Mitt does, though I'm sure Ryan, the Koch Brothers and Rupert Murdoch would happily fill in the blanks.
Obama's agenda is
- keep the Supreme Court sane
- play hardball with Congress over the fiscal cliff
-- finish pullout from Afghanistan
-- use drones in lawless areas (FATA, Yemen) and use US troops as rarely as possible worldwide
-- push for legalization of gay marriage
- implement Obamacare
- comprehensive immigration reform (easier now as demographics shift and anti-immigrant movement has faded)
- some other things I've forgotten
-- (my speculation) marijuana reform, steps toward legalization
That's a pretty busy agenda for a second term. I'd love to see a consitutional amendment removing all citizen rights from corporations and declaring money <> free speech, a fairminded approach toward elminating state-level gerrymandering, and attacking the Senate filibuster, but I don't see that in the tea leaves (yet).
posted by msalt at 11:43 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
The difference is, unlike Romney, he actually has an agenda. I'm honestly not sure Mitt does, though I'm sure Ryan, the Koch Brothers and Rupert Murdoch would happily fill in the blanks.
Obama's agenda is
- keep the Supreme Court sane
- play hardball with Congress over the fiscal cliff
-- finish pullout from Afghanistan
-- use drones in lawless areas (FATA, Yemen) and use US troops as rarely as possible worldwide
-- push for legalization of gay marriage
- implement Obamacare
- comprehensive immigration reform (easier now as demographics shift and anti-immigrant movement has faded)
- some other things I've forgotten
-- (my speculation) marijuana reform, steps toward legalization
That's a pretty busy agenda for a second term. I'd love to see a consitutional amendment removing all citizen rights from corporations and declaring money <> free speech, a fairminded approach toward elminating state-level gerrymandering, and attacking the Senate filibuster, but I don't see that in the tea leaves (yet).
posted by msalt at 11:43 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
This is either a Rickroll or viral marketing.
Absolutely. I was thinking new cable series, but they'd use a better marketing firm.
posted by Miko at 11:45 AM on October 18, 2012
Absolutely. I was thinking new cable series, but they'd use a better marketing firm.
posted by Miko at 11:45 AM on October 18, 2012
Oh, Bruce! Thank you.
"If we marginalize so many of our citizens, their talents, their energies, their voices will go unfound and unheard. We will lose their contributions to this great land of ours; we will impoverish ourselves and set ourselves on the road to decline"
posted by Miko at 11:47 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
"If we marginalize so many of our citizens, their talents, their energies, their voices will go unfound and unheard. We will lose their contributions to this great land of ours; we will impoverish ourselves and set ourselves on the road to decline"
posted by Miko at 11:47 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
Meanwhile another court has ruled against DOMA, 2nd Circuit this time.
Of note, the dissent was by a Clinton appointee
posted by edgeways at 11:48 AM on October 18, 2012
Of note, the dissent was by a Clinton appointee
posted by edgeways at 11:48 AM on October 18, 2012
That ESPN article about the family vacations is horrifying. I can only imagine the hell of marrying into that family:
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:48 AM on October 18, 2012 [11 favorites]
The overall atmosphere of the Romney Games is, officially, a fun, family-bonding experience. Unofficially, it's a day of reckoning. "I think it brings shame to the entire family, their wives and everything," Josh says before a long pause. "I'm kidding, obviously. Mostly."Ugh. This family sounds downright poisonous. And I chalk that up to the family patriarch. He comes across as mean-spirited and he has passed that trait along to his sons. Well done, Sirrah!
And make no mistake, this isn't just a come-as-you-like vacation. This is mandatory.
a one-week vacation at his $8 million estate along Lake Winnipesaukee in New Hampshire. It sounds lavish, and it is. But the sheer size of the Romney clan -- 30 in all -- makes the conditions at least somewhat cramped. Wedged into seven bedrooms, the Romneys have their share of jockeying for the choicest sleeping quarters, leading to the unusually middle-class need for inflatable mattresses
Tagg hopped off too fast and sprained his ankle. "He went down like a sack of potatoes," says Josh. "We pretended like we felt bad at the time, but we were laughing pretty hard behind his back."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:48 AM on October 18, 2012 [11 favorites]
The mother of a Navy SEAL killed in the Benghazi attack objects to Romney exploiting her dead son for cheap political points.
The ambassador's father feels the same way: Libyan Ambassador’s Death Not a Political Issue, Says Dad
posted by homunculus at 11:51 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
The ambassador's father feels the same way: Libyan Ambassador’s Death Not a Political Issue, Says Dad
posted by homunculus at 11:51 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
A Letter from Benghazi on Crappy Republican Talking Points
posted by homunculus at 11:52 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 11:52 AM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
drezdn: "Any guesses on what this is?"
Jill Stein made a typo on her transportation plan.
posted by schmod at 11:53 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Jill Stein made a typo on her transportation plan.
posted by schmod at 11:53 AM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
68 Nobel Prize-winning scientists endorse Obama.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:55 AM on October 18, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:55 AM on October 18, 2012 [7 favorites]
"I think it brings shame to the entire family, their wives and everything," Josh says before a long pause. "I'm kidding, obviously. Mostly."
"I hate Festivus!" he added.
posted by howfar at 12:00 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
"I hate Festivus!" he added.
posted by howfar at 12:00 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
Customer Reviews: Avery Durable View Binder with 2 Inch EZ-Turn Ring, White, 1 Binder (17032)
For any of you who might be considering, like me, purchasing this binder based on the reviews, let me just point out one glaring omission: While this is a lovely, multi-purpose binder, IT DOES NOT COME WITH WOMEN.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:01 PM on October 18, 2012 [5 favorites]
For any of you who might be considering, like me, purchasing this binder based on the reviews, let me just point out one glaring omission: While this is a lovely, multi-purpose binder, IT DOES NOT COME WITH WOMEN.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:01 PM on October 18, 2012 [5 favorites]
In other debate news: 2nd McCaskill, Akin debate set for tonight in Clayton
Missouri Observer Says Senate Race ‘Too Close To Call’ Ahead Of Debate
posted by homunculus at 12:03 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Missouri Observer Says Senate Race ‘Too Close To Call’ Ahead Of Debate
posted by homunculus at 12:03 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
From this link, posted somewhere above:
It's easy to get lost in the psychologizing, and even though someone may be a dick, they can still be useful or effective in politics. But man, it really seems like at his core Romney is a jerk. He knows how keep it polite and indirect, but he really doesn't like people.
It's interesting to compare him with GW Bush. Bush did all the alpha-male frat-boy stuff, giving out humiliating nicknames (e.g. Turdblossom), but if you'd submit to that you were in his club. He liked being surround by his friends. Romney is much grimmer, more of a lone wolf. After he humiliates you he just leaves you there, humiliated. And it seems like his inner circle consists of his family, not a group of friends. I'd rather not kick off a bout of Mormon bashing, but considering the record of their bad treatment by the rest of American society, I wonder if the narrative of "a man and his family against the world" is a common Mormon trope.
(Please don't think that I'm claiming Mormonism causes jerkishness. I'm not.)
posted by benito.strauss at 12:03 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
"But The View is fine, although The View is high-risk, because of the five women on it, only one [Elisabeth Hasselbeck] is conservative and four are sharp-tongued and not conservative, Whoopi Goldberg in particular.That is really quite amazing. It's humor wrapped around a clear statement of "I don't like you". If I picture Obama in an analogous situation (on some Fox talk show), it's easy to guess that he'd respond with something like "Glad to have you on board.".
"Although last time I was on the show, she [Whoopi Goldberg] said to me, 'You know what? I think I could vote for you.' And I said I must've done something really wrong."
It's easy to get lost in the psychologizing, and even though someone may be a dick, they can still be useful or effective in politics. But man, it really seems like at his core Romney is a jerk. He knows how keep it polite and indirect, but he really doesn't like people.
It's interesting to compare him with GW Bush. Bush did all the alpha-male frat-boy stuff, giving out humiliating nicknames (e.g. Turdblossom), but if you'd submit to that you were in his club. He liked being surround by his friends. Romney is much grimmer, more of a lone wolf. After he humiliates you he just leaves you there, humiliated. And it seems like his inner circle consists of his family, not a group of friends. I'd rather not kick off a bout of Mormon bashing, but considering the record of their bad treatment by the rest of American society, I wonder if the narrative of "a man and his family against the world" is a common Mormon trope.
(Please don't think that I'm claiming Mormonism causes jerkishness. I'm not.)
posted by benito.strauss at 12:03 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Live at 9pm (ET) on C-SPAN
A Night of Laughs Amid a Bitter Run for President
For one evening, the candidates are supposed to put aside their differences and showcase their ability to vie for laughs, as well as votes, as they poke fun of themselves and each other to benefit charity.If there's one thing we know from these 'Romney Family' articles, it's that Mitt Romney loves poking fun at himself.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:03 PM on October 18, 2012 [4 favorites]
did someone say binders full of women?
aw, my link was shitty...
I do think it's funny that the binders comment reminded half of the audience of "WIVES" and the other half "BILL CLINTON"
i know it's incredibly juvenile, but that image makes me laugh so much i have no shame in posting in twice.
If there's one thing we know from these 'Romney Family' articles, it's that Mitt Romney loves poking fun at himself.
Willard is the quintessential "Republican Dad" - I'm an asshole and it's everybody else's fault no one likes me.
posted by mrgrimm at 12:10 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
aw, my link was shitty...
I do think it's funny that the binders comment reminded half of the audience of "WIVES" and the other half "BILL CLINTON"
i know it's incredibly juvenile, but that image makes me laugh so much i have no shame in posting in twice.
If there's one thing we know from these 'Romney Family' articles, it's that Mitt Romney loves poking fun at himself.
Willard is the quintessential "Republican Dad" - I'm an asshole and it's everybody else's fault no one likes me.
posted by mrgrimm at 12:10 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
1 - You have to wonder if the Whoopi Goldberg/Romney exchange actually took place, I'd give it even odds the story was just another fabrication.
2 - It's not just G W Bush who hands out nicknames in that family, apparently it is pretty ingrained family practice. Bill Clinton, who seriously spends A LOT of time with Bush Sr., and by extension the Bush family (he shows up unannounced to the family home), is so accepted by the brothers he has the nickname "Brother From Another Mother".
posted by edgeways at 12:11 PM on October 18, 2012
2 - It's not just G W Bush who hands out nicknames in that family, apparently it is pretty ingrained family practice. Bill Clinton, who seriously spends A LOT of time with Bush Sr., and by extension the Bush family (he shows up unannounced to the family home), is so accepted by the brothers he has the nickname "Brother From Another Mother".
posted by edgeways at 12:11 PM on October 18, 2012
68 Nobel Prize-winning scientists endorse Obama.
Nature has a review posted that looks at the last four years of science under the Obama administration. Obama and Romney are also asked 14 questions about how science policy would work over their respective terms, but it's not very substantive, unfortunately.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:12 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Nature has a review posted that looks at the last four years of science under the Obama administration. Obama and Romney are also asked 14 questions about how science policy would work over their respective terms, but it's not very substantive, unfortunately.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:12 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
homunculus: "A Letter from Benghazi on Crappy Republican Talking Points"
From the letter:
Romney/Ryan have used the "additional security was requested" attack many times, but the Obama campaign can't use the "they asked for more security at the embassy but not the consulate" defense, because that makes it sound like they're not proactive enough to place security assets in the ideal positions everywhere around the globe. Of course, no President can possibly anticipate every attack, and must rely on subordinates to do their jobs, and even if they do them perfectly, sometimes there will be successful attacks. But that's not a good enough answer for voters, so the Obama campaign is left without a politically prudent response to this complete fiction that somehow a request for additional embassy security would have helped at the consulate in Benghazi.
The lie travels halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on, as they say.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:15 PM on October 18, 2012 [5 favorites]
From the letter:
5) There was no request for increased security at the Benghazi consulate. There was a request for the embassy in Tripoli, but that would have had no impact at all on the attack; Tripoli and Benghazi are 400 miles apart as the crow flies, and 650 or so by road.This is a perfect illustration of why Romney's lying is so mendacious.
Romney/Ryan have used the "additional security was requested" attack many times, but the Obama campaign can't use the "they asked for more security at the embassy but not the consulate" defense, because that makes it sound like they're not proactive enough to place security assets in the ideal positions everywhere around the globe. Of course, no President can possibly anticipate every attack, and must rely on subordinates to do their jobs, and even if they do them perfectly, sometimes there will be successful attacks. But that's not a good enough answer for voters, so the Obama campaign is left without a politically prudent response to this complete fiction that somehow a request for additional embassy security would have helped at the consulate in Benghazi.
The lie travels halfway around the world before the truth gets its boots on, as they say.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:15 PM on October 18, 2012 [5 favorites]
Video of Ann's appearance on The View.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:16 PM on October 18, 2012
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:16 PM on October 18, 2012
Whoopi Goldberg's Uncomfortable Question To Ann Romney (VIDEO).
posted by ericb at 12:17 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by ericb at 12:17 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
68 Nobel Prize-winning scientists endorse Obama.
Speaking of science: Paul Broun, Charles Darwin Face Off: Republican Faces Odd Write-In Opponent In Georgia House Race
posted by homunculus at 12:19 PM on October 18, 2012
Speaking of science: Paul Broun, Charles Darwin Face Off: Republican Faces Odd Write-In Opponent In Georgia House Race
posted by homunculus at 12:19 PM on October 18, 2012
Room 641-A: "A Night of Laughs Amid a Bitter Run for President"
Why am I not surprised that they're serving lamb?
posted by notsnot at 12:20 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Why am I not surprised that they're serving lamb?
posted by notsnot at 12:20 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Mitt Romney's Entirely Untrue, Objectively False Statements.
posted by ericb at 12:22 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ericb at 12:22 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
make sure you aren't drinking anything while reading the Amazon reviews. they're funny is just epic XD i dutifully tweeted these.
posted by liza at 12:27 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by liza at 12:27 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Whoopi Goldberg's Uncomfortable Question To Ann Romney (VIDEO).
Nice to see someone crack through her veneer, if only for a brief second, to watch the entitlement and privilege just ooze out.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:27 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Nice to see someone crack through her veneer, if only for a brief second, to watch the entitlement and privilege just ooze out.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:27 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Is it just me or are the headlines are just getting hilarious as people go all out like how can we make it even clearer than before that Mitt just keeps on telling lie after lie to try to get elected?
I suspect that next week around this time the headlines about Mitt's debate performance this Monday will be like "Mitt Romney's entirely untrue, objectively false, liar mcliarson, super fibtastic, mega pinocchio nosed, dancey pants on fire, bullcrappiest, masterfully mendacious, pure poo and prevaricative, most certainly the opposite of reality statements."
posted by cashman at 12:31 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
I suspect that next week around this time the headlines about Mitt's debate performance this Monday will be like "Mitt Romney's entirely untrue, objectively false, liar mcliarson, super fibtastic, mega pinocchio nosed, dancey pants on fire, bullcrappiest, masterfully mendacious, pure poo and prevaricative, most certainly the opposite of reality statements."
posted by cashman at 12:31 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
It's not just G W Bush who hands out nicknames in that family, apparently it is pretty ingrained family practice. Bill Clinton, who seriously spends A LOT of time with Bush Sr., and by extension the Bush family (he shows up unannounced to the family home), is so accepted by the brothers he has the nickname "Brother From Another Mother".
That's kind of out of step with the W-style nicknames that he hands out, which are usually some kind of ritual-humiliation-type thing. You'd expect that Bill would get something like "hillBilly" or "Fatboy".
I can picture Bill sort of needling W with the "Brother from Another Mother" appellation by adding, "Yep. And Dad likes me best."
posted by deanc at 12:31 PM on October 18, 2012 [4 favorites]
That's kind of out of step with the W-style nicknames that he hands out, which are usually some kind of ritual-humiliation-type thing. You'd expect that Bill would get something like "hillBilly" or "Fatboy".
I can picture Bill sort of needling W with the "Brother from Another Mother" appellation by adding, "Yep. And Dad likes me best."
posted by deanc at 12:31 PM on October 18, 2012 [4 favorites]
because that makes it sound like they're not proactive enough to place security assets in the ideal positions everywhere around the globe.
I'm reading a history of North Korea right now and I was struck by Johnson's response when the North Koreans seized The USS Pueblo in international waters. The Pueblo was a U.S. Navy spy ship. When asked why he didn't protect The Pueblo, Johnson said, "If we started sending gunboats out to protect everybody gathering information we'd have a budget of $500 Billion every year." Obviously you have to substitute embassy for spy ship and inflate the annual budget considerably. The point is that it is easy to second-guess how the White House allocates its security budget. They will never be able to protect all Americans all the time.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:31 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm reading a history of North Korea right now and I was struck by Johnson's response when the North Koreans seized The USS Pueblo in international waters. The Pueblo was a U.S. Navy spy ship. When asked why he didn't protect The Pueblo, Johnson said, "If we started sending gunboats out to protect everybody gathering information we'd have a budget of $500 Billion every year." Obviously you have to substitute embassy for spy ship and inflate the annual budget considerably. The point is that it is easy to second-guess how the White House allocates its security budget. They will never be able to protect all Americans all the time.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:31 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Okay people, the show is over. Back to the MotherThread.
Um. Now what.
posted by mrgrimm at 12:35 PM on October 18, 2012
Um. Now what.
posted by mrgrimm at 12:35 PM on October 18, 2012
Despite denials, Mitt & Tagg Romney tied to Ponzi scheme
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:38 PM on October 18, 2012
The private equity firm run by Tagg Romney—Mitt’s eldest son, who is now taking a leadership role in guiding his father’s presidential campaign—misled reporters last year about its involvement with a company run by men accused of taking part in a multibillion-dollar Ponzi scheme.This family must also hold competitions for lying as well as hammering in nails.
However, Solamere Capital’s statement, provided to ABC News, is false. Disclosures from the Securities and Exchange Commission show that Tagg’s company indeed maintains ties with the Ponzi-linked firm, Solamere Advisors.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:38 PM on October 18, 2012
Solamere Advisors
Do they try and think up names that sound like an evil corporate villain from an episode of Leverage or something?
posted by marxchivist at 12:43 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Do they try and think up names that sound like an evil corporate villain from an episode of Leverage or something?
posted by marxchivist at 12:43 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
"You'll get your chance in a moment, I'm still speaking." OH THE PAINFUL IRONY.
Charles P. Pierce calls out that comment as "exactly how he [Romney] feels about The Help," and that sounds about right. I think that will really hurt Romney, even more than the terror gaffe (which seems so trivial people will forget).
It reminds me of McCain's "that one," the sort of thing that might make me, if I were a person of color, say "fuck that guy, i'm voting for Obama" (if I weren't planning to vote for anyone for president, of which I might not.)
But honest, for me, it was the illegals" references that made me say, as an "undecided" voter, "fuck that guy, I'm voting for Obama to spite him." As Markos astutely puts it:
Nothing wins the Latino vote like calling their brothers and sisters and cousins and parents "illegals"
posted by mrgrimm at 12:45 PM on October 18, 2012
Charles P. Pierce calls out that comment as "exactly how he [Romney] feels about The Help," and that sounds about right. I think that will really hurt Romney, even more than the terror gaffe (which seems so trivial people will forget).
It reminds me of McCain's "that one," the sort of thing that might make me, if I were a person of color, say "fuck that guy, i'm voting for Obama" (if I weren't planning to vote for anyone for president, of which I might not.)
But honest, for me, it was the illegals" references that made me say, as an "undecided" voter, "fuck that guy, I'm voting for Obama to spite him." As Markos astutely puts it:
Nothing wins the Latino vote like calling their brothers and sisters and cousins and parents "illegals"
posted by mrgrimm at 12:45 PM on October 18, 2012
More on the Ponzi Scheme
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:46 PM on October 18, 2012
Last year, I reported that Tagg had formed a business partnership with several North Carolina investors who are still facing a lawsuit for receiving bonus pay for selling CDs as part of the $8 billion Stanford Financial Group Ponzi scheme.Solamere Capitol owns a large stake in Solamere Advisors and Mitt has $10 Million invested in Solamere Capitol.
In a nutshell, Tagg helped these investors form a company—called Solamere Advisors, a nod to Tagg’s firm Solamere Capital—shortly after their boss, Allen Stanford, was caught by law enforcement for his elaborate Ponzi fraud.
When I interviewed him in Las Vegas, Tagg told me that his associates were “cleared” of any wrongdoing associated with the Stanford Ponzi scheme. Court documents directly contradict Tagg and show that the lawsuit has not been dismissed.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:46 PM on October 18, 2012
So, uh, this might be a thing. Kinda looks like Romney made an absolute mint on the auto bailout. (link is to The nation, and make sure you have your pop-up blockers engaged, my god)
posted by edgeways at 12:47 PM on October 18, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by edgeways at 12:47 PM on October 18, 2012 [4 favorites]
Mitt Romney’s opposition to the auto bailout has haunted him on the campaign trail, especially in Rust Belt states like Ohio. There, in September, the Obama campaign launched television ads blasting Romney’s November 2008 New York Times op-ed, “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt.” But Romney has done a good job of concealing, until now, the fact that he and his wife, Ann, personally gained at least $15.3 million from the bailout—and a few of Romney’s most important Wall Street donors made more than $4 billion. Their gains, and the Romneys’, were astronomical—more than 3,000 percent on their investment.posted by edgeways at 12:49 PM on October 18, 2012
Virginia's Health Commissioner submitted her resignation Thursday over a series of controversial abortion clinic regulations recently passed by the General Assembly.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:49 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
So, uh, this might be a thing. Kinda looks like Romney made an absolute mint on the auto bailout.
I don't think that really hurts him much at all. He's already as rich as Satan anyway, and he had zero influence on the bailout. No true Americans will blame him for taking money.
I quickly read that article, but it didn't seem like anything that would stick with a standard voter.
posted by mrgrimm at 12:53 PM on October 18, 2012
I don't think that really hurts him much at all. He's already as rich as Satan anyway, and he had zero influence on the bailout. No true Americans will blame him for taking money.
I quickly read that article, but it didn't seem like anything that would stick with a standard voter.
posted by mrgrimm at 12:53 PM on October 18, 2012
Charles P. Pierce calls out that comment as "exactly how he [Romney] feels about The Help," and that sounds about right. I think that will really hurt Romney, even more than the terror gaffe (which seems so trivial people will forget).
Pierce today: Why Bosses Always Win if the Game Is Always Rigged
posted by homunculus at 12:55 PM on October 18, 2012
Pierce today: Why Bosses Always Win if the Game Is Always Rigged
posted by homunculus at 12:55 PM on October 18, 2012
I think all these money shenanigans are interesting but they won't be a deal breaker. Here is all most voters know: He made hundreds of millions of dollars by manipulating money. It is complicated and boring and more power to him!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:58 PM on October 18, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:58 PM on October 18, 2012 [5 favorites]
Ben Stein jokes that Fox News might kill him for telling them taxes are ‘too low’
“I hate to say this on Fox — and I hope I’ll be allowed to leave here alive — but I don’t think there is anyway we can cut spending enough to make a meaningful difference,” Stein told the three shocked co-hosts. “We going to have to raise taxes on very rich people, people with incomes of like say, 2, 3 million a year and up, and then slowly move it down.”posted by Room 641-A at 1:01 PM on October 18, 2012 [31 favorites]
“You do not think Washington just has a spending problem?” Steve Doocy wondered.
“I do not think they just have a spending problem,” Stein explained. “I think they also have a too-low taxes problem. And while all due respect to Fox, whom I love like brothers and sisters, the taxes are too low.”
[...]
“Taxes were like 70, 80 percent!” Doocy exclaimed.
“I know,” Stein agreed. “And yet, we were very prosperous, we were extremely prosperous. I mean, the highest rate was in the 90s during parts of the 50s and, yet, we were very prosperous.”
A Surrogate's Surprising Claim About Romney and the Kill List: Tom Ridge says the former Massachusetts governor wouldn't have one -- and then offered an unusual critique of Obama's drone strikes.
posted by homunculus at 1:02 PM on October 18, 2012
posted by homunculus at 1:02 PM on October 18, 2012
There is a humorous thing trending on twitter - #RomneyGoogleHistory
My favorites are 'Irishman Death Rattle' and 'How to defeat the onyx man'.
posted by winna at 1:06 PM on October 18, 2012 [4 favorites]
My favorites are 'Irishman Death Rattle' and 'How to defeat the onyx man'.
posted by winna at 1:06 PM on October 18, 2012 [4 favorites]
FOX News wants Candy Crowley fired. And if she isn't...then duh! Proof that the media is liberal.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:09 PM on October 18, 2012
But Carlson said, “There’s the smoking gun. What’s shocking to me is, where’s the outcry from journalists? I mean, that kind of behavior, arguing the opposite case in a debate, when it really matters, on behalf of the incumbent president – that discredits journalism itself. …You would think her colleagues would be up in arms. She’s not been criticized by one working journalist outside of Fox and The Daily Caller that I’m aware of."They make me laugh. They are such outraged buffoons.
As Carlson spoke, Doocy interjected, “Sure.” He later asked with obvious hopefulness, “Anything happen to her?”
Carlson answered, “If she’s still working in journalism next week, it will tell you everything you need to know about the deep corruption of the American media… Where are her colleagues? Seriously!”
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:09 PM on October 18, 2012
Links to #RomneyGoogleHistory and #ObamaGoogleHistory, for all you Twitter-unfriendly types. You can sort by "Top" too.
posted by DynamiteToast at 1:10 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by DynamiteToast at 1:10 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
That Google history trend is riffing off the Onion video. Onion followup.
posted by mrgrimm at 1:12 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mrgrimm at 1:12 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Laser Floyd Tug Job Appetizers
posted by mrgrimm at 1:13 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mrgrimm at 1:13 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Basically, shorter Tom Ridge: Only the CIA should kill people secretly.
I kind of agree with Friedersdorf here: "As disturbing as I find Obama's kill list, I actually prefer it to a system where some nameless CIA operative is making the call without consulting the president."
posted by edgeways at 1:15 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
I kind of agree with Friedersdorf here: "As disturbing as I find Obama's kill list, I actually prefer it to a system where some nameless CIA operative is making the call without consulting the president."
posted by edgeways at 1:15 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
Oh my God, I agree with Ben Stein about something!
posted by TwoWordReview at 1:16 PM on October 18, 2012 [10 favorites]
posted by TwoWordReview at 1:16 PM on October 18, 2012 [10 favorites]
homunculus: "A Surrogate's Surprising Claim About Romney and the Kill List: Tom Ridge says the former Massachusetts governor wouldn't have one -- and then offered an unusual critique of Obama's drone strikes."
Mittens is a master of dissembling and distracting about what he believes, so it's entirely possible that he could fool a non-trivial number ofidiots voters into thinking he'd roll back targeted assassinations / drone wars. The nightmare scenario of an attack from the left on drone attacks swinging the election to Romney is giving me chills just thinking about it.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:16 PM on October 18, 2012
Mittens is a master of dissembling and distracting about what he believes, so it's entirely possible that he could fool a non-trivial number of
posted by tonycpsu at 1:16 PM on October 18, 2012
oh, i'm going to be chuckling about irishman death rattle (1080p) all day.
It's entirely possible that he could fool a non-trivial number of idiots voters into thinking he'd roll back targeted assassinations / drone wars
Why? If he pushes that too far, he loses the violent militaristic vote, which to be fair, seems like a significant GOP faction.
Oh my God, I agree with Ben Stein about something!
Ben Stein is a very conservative "libertarian" type (legalize weed, don't let the government take my guns or waste my money), but he is an independent thinker, I believe. I take that comment as a significant bellwether. Looks like he might be a bandwagon Obama voter, recognizing at least perhaps that too much idiocy is too much. He might even go the Bill Maher route. Maher and Stein used to be pretty close ideologically.
posted by mrgrimm at 1:27 PM on October 18, 2012
It's entirely possible that he could fool a non-trivial number of idiots voters into thinking he'd roll back targeted assassinations / drone wars
Why? If he pushes that too far, he loses the violent militaristic vote, which to be fair, seems like a significant GOP faction.
Oh my God, I agree with Ben Stein about something!
Ben Stein is a very conservative "libertarian" type (legalize weed, don't let the government take my guns or waste my money), but he is an independent thinker, I believe. I take that comment as a significant bellwether. Looks like he might be a bandwagon Obama voter, recognizing at least perhaps that too much idiocy is too much. He might even go the Bill Maher route. Maher and Stein used to be pretty close ideologically.
posted by mrgrimm at 1:27 PM on October 18, 2012
msalt: " (my speculation) marijuana reform, steps toward legalization"
Where do people get this? Every time it comes up, some administration proxy has crush people's hopes. Even when it was at the top of the crowdsourced question list on the website, it didn't get answered.
posted by boo_radley at 1:27 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
Where do people get this? Every time it comes up, some administration proxy has crush people's hopes. Even when it was at the top of the crowdsourced question list on the website, it didn't get answered.
posted by boo_radley at 1:27 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
It might be because Obama toked up when he was younger so obviously he would support it right?
But something I keep in the back of my head also, separating out partisanship, we can look at the fact GWB snorted coke when he was younger, and there is no way he was going to push for that legalization. No I am not really making a 1:1 comparison between pot and coke, but rather what we do as youth does not always portray an accurate picture of what we think of as a good idea when we are older.
I tend to be ambivalent about the legalization of pot, leaning towards supporting it not because I think it will be a great economic boon, or will change society, nor do I think that it is an entirely harmless drug (although better then many), but rather I tend to favor it as a pathway towards clearing out a lot of people from prison who really don't belong there.
posted by edgeways at 1:43 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
But something I keep in the back of my head also, separating out partisanship, we can look at the fact GWB snorted coke when he was younger, and there is no way he was going to push for that legalization. No I am not really making a 1:1 comparison between pot and coke, but rather what we do as youth does not always portray an accurate picture of what we think of as a good idea when we are older.
I tend to be ambivalent about the legalization of pot, leaning towards supporting it not because I think it will be a great economic boon, or will change society, nor do I think that it is an entirely harmless drug (although better then many), but rather I tend to favor it as a pathway towards clearing out a lot of people from prison who really don't belong there.
posted by edgeways at 1:43 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Mittens is a master of dissembling and distracting about what he believes, so it's entirely possible that he could fool a non-trivial number of idiots voters into thinking he'd roll back targeted assassinations / drone wars.
I don't think anyone believes Romney would roll back the drone wars, and I don't think Ridge was suggesting that. I think Romney would see a kill list as a waste of his time, but he wouldn't stop the program. I have little doubt that the number of drone strikes would go up and more civilians would be killed under a Romney administration, and he wouldn't lose any sleep over it. But that's not going to have an effect on the election one way or the other, imo.
Charles Pierce again today, on the drone issue: The Lethal Presidency Has Become an Everyday War
posted by homunculus at 1:44 PM on October 18, 2012
I don't think anyone believes Romney would roll back the drone wars, and I don't think Ridge was suggesting that. I think Romney would see a kill list as a waste of his time, but he wouldn't stop the program. I have little doubt that the number of drone strikes would go up and more civilians would be killed under a Romney administration, and he wouldn't lose any sleep over it. But that's not going to have an effect on the election one way or the other, imo.
Charles Pierce again today, on the drone issue: The Lethal Presidency Has Become an Everyday War
posted by homunculus at 1:44 PM on October 18, 2012
msalt: The difference is, unlike Romney, he actually has an agenda. I'm honestly not sure Mitt does, though I'm sure Ryan, the Koch Brothers and Rupert Murdoch would happily fill in the blanks.
Obama's agenda is
- keep the Supreme Court sane
- play hardball with Congress over the fiscal cliff
-- finish pullout from Afghanistan
-- use drones in lawless areas (FATA, Yemen) and use US troops as rarely as possible worldwide
-- push for legalization of gay marriage
- implement Obamacare
- comprehensive immigration reform (easier now as demographics shift and anti-immigrant movement has faded)
- some other things I've forgotten
-- (my speculation) marijuana reform, steps toward legalization
Everytime I see the "Mitt has no plan" thing come up all I can think of is that he does indeed have a plan. Unfortunately it is on a napkin and it reads:
PLAN:
1. Win presidency
2. ?
3. Profit!
posted by Big_B at 1:49 PM on October 18, 2012 [6 favorites]
Obama's agenda is
- keep the Supreme Court sane
- play hardball with Congress over the fiscal cliff
-- finish pullout from Afghanistan
-- use drones in lawless areas (FATA, Yemen) and use US troops as rarely as possible worldwide
-- push for legalization of gay marriage
- implement Obamacare
- comprehensive immigration reform (easier now as demographics shift and anti-immigrant movement has faded)
- some other things I've forgotten
-- (my speculation) marijuana reform, steps toward legalization
Everytime I see the "Mitt has no plan" thing come up all I can think of is that he does indeed have a plan. Unfortunately it is on a napkin and it reads:
PLAN:
1. Win presidency
2. ?
3. Profit!
posted by Big_B at 1:49 PM on October 18, 2012 [6 favorites]
mrgrimm: ". Looks like he might be a bandwagon Obama voter, recognizing at least perhaps that too much idiocy is too much. He might even go the Bill Maher route. Maher and Stein used to be pretty close ideologically."
Um... have you read any of his columns for the last five+ years? This is his take on the last debate: "....the dishonesty and shameless obfuscation of Mr. Obama were genuinely frightening."
Agreeing with him on one issue is definitely not going to turn him into an Obama supporter.
posted by zarq at 1:52 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Um... have you read any of his columns for the last five+ years? This is his take on the last debate: "....the dishonesty and shameless obfuscation of Mr. Obama were genuinely frightening."
Agreeing with him on one issue is definitely not going to turn him into an Obama supporter.
posted by zarq at 1:52 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
I am planning to write a big "Why I'm Voting for Obama" Facebook post for the day before the election and have been considering what I'm going to say. The agenda is partially to contribute one reasonable voice to the atmosphere, and the audience is really my conservative relatives. I've been trying to think about what I'm going to say - three or four big points - and I want to be sure they aren't just points about how scary Romney is (that might be a separate post) but what a good, smart choice Obama is. I do wish there was more talk of the 2nd term agenda to help support this kind of conversation.
posted by Miko at 1:55 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Miko at 1:55 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Miko, you might want to write it sooner than that, if you goal is to influence other people. Tons of people are voting right now.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:57 PM on October 18, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:57 PM on October 18, 2012 [6 favorites]
I think Stein saying he disagrees with Romney on taxes is like me saying I disagree with Obama about drone strikes. I do, but I will vote for him anyways because he is the better alternative. I am sure Stein feels the same way about Romney.
Miko:
Science Funding
Immigration reform
Opposition to Citizen's United likely reflected in SC picks
Finally ending the Afgan war
posted by edgeways at 2:00 PM on October 18, 2012
Miko:
Science Funding
Immigration reform
Opposition to Citizen's United likely reflected in SC picks
Finally ending the Afgan war
posted by edgeways at 2:00 PM on October 18, 2012
Um... have you read any of his columns for the last five+ years?
I consider most of his publications to be performance. He's an admitted sellout.
I do wish there was more talk of the 2nd term agenda to help support this kind of conversation.
I wish there were more of a plan for climate change. High gas prices are a good thing, right? What's our plan to protect our air and our water? What's our plan, as a society, to reduce carbon emissions? What's our plan to reduce plastic pollution?
posted by mrgrimm at 2:04 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
I consider most of his publications to be performance. He's an admitted sellout.
I do wish there was more talk of the 2nd term agenda to help support this kind of conversation.
I wish there were more of a plan for climate change. High gas prices are a good thing, right? What's our plan to protect our air and our water? What's our plan, as a society, to reduce carbon emissions? What's our plan to reduce plastic pollution?
posted by mrgrimm at 2:04 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Miko, you might want to write it sooner than that, if you goal is to influence other people. Tons of people are voting right now.
Nope. This is for my relatives. I'm lucky (?) they're voting at all. They are in no way organized to vote early. They are going to wait until the last possible minute to remain "undecided"/hard-to-get.
posted by Miko at 2:05 PM on October 18, 2012
Nope. This is for my relatives. I'm lucky (?) they're voting at all. They are in no way organized to vote early. They are going to wait until the last possible minute to remain "undecided"/hard-to-get.
posted by Miko at 2:05 PM on October 18, 2012
90 Days, 90 Reasons is up to reason #72 to vote for Obama.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:13 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 2:13 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Miko: "They are going to wait until the last possible minute to remain "undecided"/hard-to-get."
What, really? Unless you count the tiny chance of town hall softball lobber or raking in mediocre focus group luncheons as huge wins, is there a strategy here?
posted by boo_radley at 2:14 PM on October 18, 2012
What, really? Unless you count the tiny chance of town hall softball lobber or raking in mediocre focus group luncheons as huge wins, is there a strategy here?
posted by boo_radley at 2:14 PM on October 18, 2012
homunculus:Pierce today: Why Bosses Always Win if the Game Is Always Rigged
My opinion is I think America is now faced with a very clear choice. Does it want a President or a Boss?—James Lipton, Hardball, 17 October, 2012
posted by ob1quixote at 2:21 PM on October 18, 2012 [19 favorites]
So Jeremy the exercise major is straight up grinding off the spotlight. Go 'head J. I aint mad atcha.
Also, I know a link was posted to Jeremy doing an interview with nbc, but I missed this part, where Jeremy talked to President Obama and Mitt afterward. Of talking to Mitt: "I asked him if he's gonna give me that job in two years and he said 'Maybe'"
Seriously Mitt!? Who does that? Who is in front of the cameras and says "I'll find you a job, kid!" and then you go back stage and he says "eh...Maybe"? Who does that? Does he want us to think he's a jerk?
posted by cashman at 2:36 PM on October 18, 2012 [6 favorites]
Also, I know a link was posted to Jeremy doing an interview with nbc, but I missed this part, where Jeremy talked to President Obama and Mitt afterward. Of talking to Mitt: "I asked him if he's gonna give me that job in two years and he said 'Maybe'"
Seriously Mitt!? Who does that? Who is in front of the cameras and says "I'll find you a job, kid!" and then you go back stage and he says "eh...Maybe"? Who does that? Does he want us to think he's a jerk?
posted by cashman at 2:36 PM on October 18, 2012 [6 favorites]
...James Lipton, Hardball...
Oh. My. Goodness I LOVE Lipton as a political commentator.
posted by dog food sugar at 2:43 PM on October 18, 2012
Oh. My. Goodness I LOVE Lipton as a political commentator.
posted by dog food sugar at 2:43 PM on October 18, 2012
"My opinion is I think America is now faced with a very clear choice. Does it want a President or a Boss?"
That's why people say there's little choice in U.S. politics. Because The Boss is campaigning for the President. ;)
posted by ersatz at 3:00 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
That's why people say there's little choice in U.S. politics. Because The Boss is campaigning for the President. ;)
posted by ersatz at 3:00 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
Because The Boss is campaigning for the President. ;)
Ohjesusnomyeyes
posted by howfar at 3:01 PM on October 18, 2012
Ohjesusnomyeyes
posted by howfar at 3:01 PM on October 18, 2012
Honestly, with low information voters, I've been echoing the "A vote for Obama is a bet on America to win" message, and reminding them that Mitt doesn't even know they exist. Things are bad now, but they were worse under Bush, and we've been coming back. Let that bet ride, man. Don't cash out now — you'll miss the big payoff.
posted by klangklangston at 3:03 PM on October 18, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by klangklangston at 3:03 PM on October 18, 2012 [6 favorites]
Why Do The Gallup Poll's Likely Voter Results Differ From The Rest?
posted by ericb at 3:04 PM on October 18, 2012
posted by ericb at 3:04 PM on October 18, 2012
Obama On 'Daily Show': 'We Weren't Confused' On Libya.
posted by ericb at 3:05 PM on October 18, 2012
posted by ericb at 3:05 PM on October 18, 2012
Oh. My. Goodness I LOVE Lipton as a political commentator.
I assumed you guys were joking or it was a different James Lipton or something - I had no idea until right this moment that this was seriously a thing. HE IS AMAZING: "[Romney] is that boss who tells lame jokes and waits for everybody to laugh or else."
posted by naoko at 3:06 PM on October 18, 2012 [4 favorites]
I assumed you guys were joking or it was a different James Lipton or something - I had no idea until right this moment that this was seriously a thing. HE IS AMAZING: "[Romney] is that boss who tells lame jokes and waits for everybody to laugh or else."
posted by naoko at 3:06 PM on October 18, 2012 [4 favorites]
Soup Kitchen In Paul Ryan Photo-Op Faces Donor Backlash.
posted by ericb at 3:06 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ericb at 3:06 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
WATCH: Mitt Bragged About Hiring Women At Firm He Didn't Work For.
posted by ericb at 3:08 PM on October 18, 2012
posted by ericb at 3:08 PM on October 18, 2012
Mitt Romney On Women At Bain: They Don't Want To Work There.
posted by ericb at 3:10 PM on October 18, 2012
posted by ericb at 3:10 PM on October 18, 2012
Mitt Romney: My Entire Life Spent 'Helping Women Through The Glass Ceiling' (VIDEO).
posted by ericb at 3:12 PM on October 18, 2012
posted by ericb at 3:12 PM on October 18, 2012
...and he wouldn't eliminate the glass ceiling with the stroke of a pen because FREEDOM.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:13 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by tonycpsu at 3:13 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Willard says his "entire life has been one of working with women and helping women through the glass ceiling." Really.
Because women can't get there on their own, dontchaknow. They need a man to show them the way!
This election is bad for my blood pressure.
posted by cmyk at 3:15 PM on October 18, 2012 [6 favorites]
Because women can't get there on their own, dontchaknow. They need a man to show them the way!
This election is bad for my blood pressure.
posted by cmyk at 3:15 PM on October 18, 2012 [6 favorites]
This election is bad for my blood pressure.
I'm so glad I typically have very low blood pressure. (Although I suspect I'm a lot closer to normal these days.) Election season is bad for my health in so many ways--added stress, even less and worse sleep than I normally get--at least that's one less thing to worry about.
Last night Jon Stewart said "please let it all be over!" I'm right there with him. These last few weeks are going to be torture.
There REALLY has to be a better way of doing this.
posted by Superplin at 3:24 PM on October 18, 2012 [4 favorites]
I'm so glad I typically have very low blood pressure. (Although I suspect I'm a lot closer to normal these days.) Election season is bad for my health in so many ways--added stress, even less and worse sleep than I normally get--at least that's one less thing to worry about.
Last night Jon Stewart said "please let it all be over!" I'm right there with him. These last few weeks are going to be torture.
There REALLY has to be a better way of doing this.
posted by Superplin at 3:24 PM on October 18, 2012 [4 favorites]
Oh. My. Goodness I LOVE Lipton as a political commentator.
I assumed you guys were joking or it was a different James Lipton or something - I had no idea until right this moment that this was seriously a thing. HE IS AMAZING: "[Romney] is that boss who tells lame jokes and waits for everybody to laugh or else."
President Obama's performance was simply scrumtrulescent.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:40 PM on October 18, 2012 [6 favorites]
I assumed you guys were joking or it was a different James Lipton or something - I had no idea until right this moment that this was seriously a thing. HE IS AMAZING: "[Romney] is that boss who tells lame jokes and waits for everybody to laugh or else."
President Obama's performance was simply scrumtrulescent.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:40 PM on October 18, 2012 [6 favorites]
Yup. I'm a news junkie. Feel vaguely guilty if NPR isn't playing. Until Tuesday's debate, I couldn't have it on. One word from Mittens and off it went.
Maybe I could deal with it now but the sequel to The Passage is out on audiobook and I much prefer The Coming of the Twelve to one moment of Paul Ryan.
posted by angrycat at 3:47 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Maybe I could deal with it now but the sequel to The Passage is out on audiobook and I much prefer The Coming of the Twelve to one moment of Paul Ryan.
posted by angrycat at 3:47 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
dog food sugar: "Oh. My. Goodness I LOVE Lipton as a political commentator."
"Now, Governor Romney, welcome to The Politician's Studio." * pulls out a stack of blue notecards, clears throat *
posted by boo_radley at 3:48 PM on October 18, 2012 [4 favorites]
"Now, Governor Romney, welcome to The Politician's Studio." * pulls out a stack of blue notecards, clears throat *
posted by boo_radley at 3:48 PM on October 18, 2012 [4 favorites]
Mittsogyny. I'm sure someone else coined it already, but there, that's what I will call his creepy grinning faux acquiescence to the binders full of women.
I keep finding myself saying this about the US Right, and it keeps being accurate -- when you and pretty much everyone you love is in the category of "why don't those people just fuck off and die" (pick two or more: female, non-white, elderly, disabled, queer, non-Christian, etc) it gets damn hard to remember not to take these things personally. So damn hard.
After Obama won in 2008, my loved ones and I kept telling each other that we felt relieved. It was as though the targets on our backs suddenly weren't there anymore -- or weren't as big, because now we were going to have a commander in chief who'd step in to run interference between us and those doing the targeting. For the most part, he's done that.
The GOP is ratcheting up that same old rhetoric, and again, there's that creepy crosshairs feeling. I hate it.
posted by cmyk at 3:55 PM on October 18, 2012 [15 favorites]
I keep finding myself saying this about the US Right, and it keeps being accurate -- when you and pretty much everyone you love is in the category of "why don't those people just fuck off and die" (pick two or more: female, non-white, elderly, disabled, queer, non-Christian, etc) it gets damn hard to remember not to take these things personally. So damn hard.
After Obama won in 2008, my loved ones and I kept telling each other that we felt relieved. It was as though the targets on our backs suddenly weren't there anymore -- or weren't as big, because now we were going to have a commander in chief who'd step in to run interference between us and those doing the targeting. For the most part, he's done that.
The GOP is ratcheting up that same old rhetoric, and again, there's that creepy crosshairs feeling. I hate it.
posted by cmyk at 3:55 PM on October 18, 2012 [15 favorites]
Oh. My. Goodness I LOVE Lipton as a political commentator.
He's naturally continuing in his father's footsteps...
posted by zachlipton at 4:04 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
He's naturally continuing in his father's footsteps...
posted by zachlipton at 4:04 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Fark has started an Idiegogo campaign to raise money for the soup kitchen Paul Ryan went to for a photo op.
posted by dirigibleman at 4:14 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by dirigibleman at 4:14 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
My Entire Life Spent 'Helping Women Through The Glass Ceiling'
Well, to be fair, he doesn't specify which direction he's sending them through the glass ceiling, so this may well be true. I give it a 50% Accuracy rating.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:18 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
Well, to be fair, he doesn't specify which direction he's sending them through the glass ceiling, so this may well be true. I give it a 50% Accuracy rating.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:18 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
Lipton: What is your favorite curse word?
Obama: Motherfucker.
Romney: Gosh.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:24 PM on October 18, 2012 [5 favorites]
Obama: Motherfucker.
Romney: Gosh.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:24 PM on October 18, 2012 [5 favorites]
ob1quixote: "Oh, I left out the punch-line of that Greg Palast article:
My father retired from Delphi. His pension and healthcare benefits were fucked long before President Obama took office. And my dad knows it. He's extremely angry, but not at the President. The people he's angry with look and act and do business a lot more like Mitt Romney.
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 4:31 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
After the hedge fund takeover of Delphi, the squeeze on workers intensified through attacks on their pensions. During its years of economic trouble, Delphi had been chronically shorting payments to its pension funds—and by July 2009, they were underfunded by $7 billion. That month, Singer’s hedge fund group won the bid for control of Delphi’s stock and made clear they would neither make up the shortfall nor pay any more US worker pensions. Checkmated by the hedge funders, the government’s Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation agreed to take over Delphi’s pension payments. The PBGC would eat the shortfall."
With Delphi’s new owners relieved of its healthcare and pension obligations, its debts to GM and its union contracts— and now loaded with subsidies from GM funded by TARP—the company’s market value rose from zero to approximately $10.5 billion today.
* * *
But there was still a bit of unfinished business: President Obama needed to be blamed for the pension disaster. In a television ad airing in swing states since September, one retired Delphi manager says, “The Obama administration decided to terminate my pension, and I took a 40 percent reduction in my pension.”
My father retired from Delphi. His pension and healthcare benefits were fucked long before President Obama took office. And my dad knows it. He's extremely angry, but not at the President. The people he's angry with look and act and do business a lot more like Mitt Romney.
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 4:31 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
Some news out of Virginia:
The Rockingham County Sheriff's office has arrested a Pennsylvania man and charged him with attempting to throw away filled out voter registration forms. Colin Small, 31 year old male from Phoenixville, PA has been charged with 12 felonies in connection with the controversy. He is employed by Pinpoint, a company that was hired by the Republican Party of Virginia to help with voter registration.
The guy was caught throwing out just 8 forms, but I wonder how many more he may have tossed before someone saw him.
posted by naoko at 4:34 PM on October 18, 2012 [9 favorites]
The Rockingham County Sheriff's office has arrested a Pennsylvania man and charged him with attempting to throw away filled out voter registration forms. Colin Small, 31 year old male from Phoenixville, PA has been charged with 12 felonies in connection with the controversy. He is employed by Pinpoint, a company that was hired by the Republican Party of Virginia to help with voter registration.
The guy was caught throwing out just 8 forms, but I wonder how many more he may have tossed before someone saw him.
posted by naoko at 4:34 PM on October 18, 2012 [9 favorites]
I'm disappointed that Fark has totally p0wned the octsuprise guys before Mefi. It is like they are winning the Internet.
posted by humanfont at 4:34 PM on October 18, 2012
posted by humanfont at 4:34 PM on October 18, 2012
Which Romney Son is Creepiest
Who knew there was a blond Romney son?!? (Sorry if this coarsens the political discourse...but I like to think if I was stuck in the position of "child of candidate" I would get a kick out of stuff like this. And Tagg is definitely the creepiest.)
posted by sallybrown at 4:37 PM on October 18, 2012
Who knew there was a blond Romney son?!? (Sorry if this coarsens the political discourse...but I like to think if I was stuck in the position of "child of candidate" I would get a kick out of stuff like this. And Tagg is definitely the creepiest.)
posted by sallybrown at 4:37 PM on October 18, 2012
wait! what's with fark and the octsurprise site? can someone explain what's going on?
posted by liza at 4:39 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by liza at 4:39 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Some Fark people found out that the October Surprise site is a hoax.
posted by dirigibleman at 4:49 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by dirigibleman at 4:49 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Oh, sure, they say its a hoax now but when it turns out to be definitive proof that Obama was born in Massachusetts and, thus, is too liberal to be elected president (as is anyone who ever held office in that state) you'll all be singing another tune, and it won't be "Never Gonna Give You Up."
It may be "Together Forever," though.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:52 PM on October 18, 2012
It may be "Together Forever," though.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:52 PM on October 18, 2012
To sum up if you missed it: Two guys setup a website with a countdown clock that announced they would release secret documents with shocking information about one of the candidates. A social media firestorm was created with speculation about taxes and or Wikileaks. It was then discovered that the google tracking code was previously used on a large scale rock roll prank site by guys on Fark.
Relevant Fark comment
posted by humanfont at 4:57 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Relevant Fark comment
posted by humanfont at 4:57 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Republican former FDIC Chairwoman Sheila Bair campaigns for Elizabeth Warren in Massachusetts Senate race
posted by homunculus at 5:00 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 5:00 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
It may be "Together Forever," though.
Oh God, 24 years since that's been stuck in my head. 24 happy years...
posted by TwoWordReview at 5:00 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
Oh God, 24 years since that's been stuck in my head. 24 happy years...
posted by TwoWordReview at 5:00 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
You get rock rolled when you think you're linking to Rick Astley but it turns out to be Iron Maiden.
posted by Babblesort at 5:00 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Babblesort at 5:00 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
me: >> (my speculation) marijuana reform, steps toward legalization
boo_radley:>Where do people get this? Every time it comes up, some administration proxy has crush people's hopes
I'm admittedly reading tea leaves, based on the gay marriage issue. Obama was against it at first, and only changed stance through a very slow and deliberate series of steps. First, not defending DOMA, then attacking it, then ending DADT and finally coming out fully pro-marriage.
I think legalizing weed would be a huge issue that Republicans would hammer on this fall, but they've already taken one step. 2 years ago, Obama administration officials openly opposed legalization ballot measures. This fall, they took no position and have been attacked by Benzinger and other anti-marijuana zealots, but it hasn't resonated because there's nothing solid to attack.
My best guess for next step -- moving marijuana out of Schedule 1 to allow full research and medical use. After reelection. From there, who knows.
posted by msalt at 5:19 PM on October 18, 2012
boo_radley:>Where do people get this? Every time it comes up, some administration proxy has crush people's hopes
I'm admittedly reading tea leaves, based on the gay marriage issue. Obama was against it at first, and only changed stance through a very slow and deliberate series of steps. First, not defending DOMA, then attacking it, then ending DADT and finally coming out fully pro-marriage.
I think legalizing weed would be a huge issue that Republicans would hammer on this fall, but they've already taken one step. 2 years ago, Obama administration officials openly opposed legalization ballot measures. This fall, they took no position and have been attacked by Benzinger and other anti-marijuana zealots, but it hasn't resonated because there's nothing solid to attack.
My best guess for next step -- moving marijuana out of Schedule 1 to allow full research and medical use. After reelection. From there, who knows.
posted by msalt at 5:19 PM on October 18, 2012
ah! thanks guyz. y'all the best :)
posted by liza at 5:19 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by liza at 5:19 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
A woman is then heard recommending that his wife Ann appear on The View to help stop people thinking of Romney as a "rich guy".Man, I gotta get me a job as a church mouse.
Romney then responded that he is "poor as a church mouse right now."
posted by Flunkie at 5:37 PM on October 18, 2012 [11 favorites]
Rick Astley - Never Gonna Give You Up
posted by team lowkey at 5:39 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by team lowkey at 5:39 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
You Can't Tip a Buick: "I feel like there's a case to be made about a parallel between Republican-aligned media's insistence that calling something an "act of terror" isn't the same as calling it a "terroristic act," and the tendency among right-evangelical churches to insist that one isn't truly born again until one uses a particular phrase indicating their acceptance of Jesus into their heart. Sort of a shared right-wing tendency to treat words as magic totems rather than signifiers for referents to things in the world.
but really it's just Republican-aligned media outlets trying and failing to cover their asses for having made a mistake that Romney ended up repeating..."
I just wanted to comment on this comment from way back yesterday before we started talking about the cspan dinner talks in two minutes.
There is something very strange about how conservatives see words. They truly believe that words themselves, regardless of the meaning behind them, have power. That words never change.
I never understood why euphemisms were ok. If you want to hurt someone, isn't that enough, regardless of which word you use to say it? Also, just because something meant one thing when you were a kid, how could you still judge others who clearly aren't using that definition?
At the very extreme end, I think that there are a lot of conservatives, but very few liberals, out there who would believe that words could be used, intrinsically, to summons spirits. That a child could, without knowing better, ensnare their own soul by saying the wrong word - as if a word had the same power as a knife.
posted by rebent at 6:03 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
but really it's just Republican-aligned media outlets trying and failing to cover their asses for having made a mistake that Romney ended up repeating..."
I just wanted to comment on this comment from way back yesterday before we started talking about the cspan dinner talks in two minutes.
There is something very strange about how conservatives see words. They truly believe that words themselves, regardless of the meaning behind them, have power. That words never change.
I never understood why euphemisms were ok. If you want to hurt someone, isn't that enough, regardless of which word you use to say it? Also, just because something meant one thing when you were a kid, how could you still judge others who clearly aren't using that definition?
At the very extreme end, I think that there are a lot of conservatives, but very few liberals, out there who would believe that words could be used, intrinsically, to summons spirits. That a child could, without knowing better, ensnare their own soul by saying the wrong word - as if a word had the same power as a knife.
posted by rebent at 6:03 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
(here's the cspan live broadcast of the 67th annual alfred e smith memorial foundation dinner. The speaker is currently telling jokes about obama and romney)
posted by rebent at 6:10 PM on October 18, 2012
posted by rebent at 6:10 PM on October 18, 2012
Jesus, Romney's "jokes" at this thing are really mean-spirited.
posted by King Bee at 6:17 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by King Bee at 6:17 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
Mitt on the press: "my job is to lay out a positive vision for the country, and their job is to make sure nobody knows about it"
posted by rebent at 6:19 PM on October 18, 2012
posted by rebent at 6:19 PM on October 18, 2012
I see weve reached the Comedy portion of this cycle's competition.
posted by JHarris at 6:21 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by JHarris at 6:21 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
McCain's speech at the same dinner was much, much funnier.
posted by rainy at 6:22 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by rainy at 6:22 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
I am seriously dying to know whether or not Obama and Romney like each other irl.
posted by triggerfinger at 6:26 PM on October 18, 2012
posted by triggerfinger at 6:26 PM on October 18, 2012
I think Obama is a great joke teller. And when he smiles and giggles a little, I just love it.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:27 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:27 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
Mitt on the press: "my job is to lay out a positive vision for the country, and their job is to make sure nobody knows about it"
I'm starting to think that part of why Mitt is so angry when he's called on anything is because he's in such a bubble of yes-men that he honestly believes that he's been dealt an unfair hand.
You can probably extend that to his life as a whole, not just this campaign.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:27 PM on October 18, 2012 [9 favorites]
I'm starting to think that part of why Mitt is so angry when he's called on anything is because he's in such a bubble of yes-men that he honestly believes that he's been dealt an unfair hand.
You can probably extend that to his life as a whole, not just this campaign.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:27 PM on October 18, 2012 [9 favorites]
Obama is funny. Mitt's was just harsh.
posted by cashman at 6:29 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by cashman at 6:29 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
jason, did you see that video posted earlier where Mitt called out a reporter who argued with him when he said that he didn't have lobbyists in his campaign?
posted by rebent at 6:30 PM on October 18, 2012
posted by rebent at 6:30 PM on October 18, 2012
I thought Mitt sounded a little mean-spirited too, but I thought that might be because I dislike Romney so much.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:33 PM on October 18, 2012
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:33 PM on October 18, 2012
Okay, Obama just made me laugh out loud for real:
"Mitt Romney and I have one thing in common - we both have unusual names. Actually, 'Mitt' is his middle name." (pause, sigh) "....I wish I could use my middle name."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:34 PM on October 18, 2012 [32 favorites]
"Mitt Romney and I have one thing in common - we both have unusual names. Actually, 'Mitt' is his middle name." (pause, sigh) "....I wish I could use my middle name."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:34 PM on October 18, 2012 [32 favorites]
And he had that "nobody ever pays me in gum" tone. So funny.
posted by cashman at 6:36 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by cashman at 6:36 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
Well, Sean Hannity just said that Romney was way funnier, so I guess it's clear that Obama was.
posted by King Bee at 6:37 PM on October 18, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by King Bee at 6:37 PM on October 18, 2012 [4 favorites]
rebent, I haven't seen that one but I've seen many videos like it from his campaign stops so far.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:38 PM on October 18, 2012
posted by jason_steakums at 6:38 PM on October 18, 2012
And he had that "nobody ever pays me in gum" tone. So funny.
I loved that you could see everyone else in the room go through the same three seconds of, "wait, why can't he...oh, riiiiiiight....."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:41 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
I loved that you could see everyone else in the room go through the same three seconds of, "wait, why can't he...oh, riiiiiiight....."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:41 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
I also liked the line about "forgetting to buy an anniversary gift isn't the worst thing that can happen to you on your anniversary."
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:42 PM on October 18, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 6:42 PM on October 18, 2012 [7 favorites]
I missed the jokes, is it on youtube yet? Come on internet, don't let me down.
posted by DynamiteToast at 6:44 PM on October 18, 2012
posted by DynamiteToast at 6:44 PM on October 18, 2012
Jason_steakums, RolandOfEld linked it above - it's a good watch. It gave me goosebumps.
posted by rebent at 6:46 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by rebent at 6:46 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
Romney Roasts President Obama, Himself At The Al Smith Dinner
Obama Roasts Himself, Jabs At Romney And Even Elbows Chris Matthews During Al Smith Dinner
posted by homunculus at 6:53 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
Obama Roasts Himself, Jabs At Romney And Even Elbows Chris Matthews During Al Smith Dinner
posted by homunculus at 6:53 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
Oh jeez, yeah, just watched that video RolandOfEld linked. I thought it was over and bad enough and then he CAME BACK TO ARGUE SOME MORE. That's the behavior of someone who thinks he can approach anyone he wants from a position of unquestioned power as if they're all his employees, or they're able to be bullied.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:58 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 6:58 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
For ol' times sake: Al Smith Dinner 2008
posted by shortfuse at 6:58 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by shortfuse at 6:58 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
With regards to his performance in the second (and first I suppose) debate, this makes perfect, perfect sense.
When the Green Bay Packers faced Detroit for the first time last year, due to injuries a second of third string lineman was facing the incredible Ndamukong Suh. The line coach coached the lineman to keep pulling on Suh's shoelaces when ever he had a chance. It pissed Suh off so much he ended up doing this.
What you point out, just might Romney's shoe strings.
posted by drezdn at 7:15 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
When the Green Bay Packers faced Detroit for the first time last year, due to injuries a second of third string lineman was facing the incredible Ndamukong Suh. The line coach coached the lineman to keep pulling on Suh's shoelaces when ever he had a chance. It pissed Suh off so much he ended up doing this.
What you point out, just might Romney's shoe strings.
posted by drezdn at 7:15 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
So, uh, that 47% video just keeps on giving.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:19 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
As you watch the video, notice the man (is that a British accent?) asking Romney how he can “duplicate” an Iran hostage type scenario. Instead of dismissing the question as going against American interests, Romney agrees that the strategy would be beneficial. The entire video is worth a listen but at the end, Romney says, “if something of that nature presents itself, I will work to take advantage of the opportunity.”Wow.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:19 PM on October 18, 2012 [3 favorites]
In other debate news: Rep. Keith Ellison Calls Challenger ‘A Low-Life Scumbag’ At Debate
posted by homunculus at 7:24 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 7:24 PM on October 18, 2012 [2 favorites]
As correct as he may be, it's probably a good think Keith isn't in a competitive district with a comment like that so close to election time. AS it is he'll still win... probally with a 20 point margin instead of 30 mind you.
posted by edgeways at 7:39 PM on October 18, 2012
posted by edgeways at 7:39 PM on October 18, 2012
I saw the same tone at the RNC. Republican humor, on the whole, is just childish and mean-spirited. Fuckers just can't tell a joke. It's sad, and I think it's telling of something deeper.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 8:01 PM on October 18, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by Benny Andajetz at 8:01 PM on October 18, 2012 [5 favorites]
Robert Reich: How Obama Can Smoke Out Mitt: Call for Breaking Up the Biggest Banks, and Resurrecting Glass-Steagall
posted by homunculus at 8:02 PM on October 18, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 8:02 PM on October 18, 2012 [6 favorites]
Robert Reich's been a favorite of mine these past few years, I wish he would have spoken at the Dem Convention to kind of round out the strong themes Clinton's Arithmetic speech hammered home. He's a fantastic educator.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:08 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by jason_steakums at 8:08 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Fuckers just can't tell a joke. It's sad, and I think it's telling of something deeper
Martin Amis wrote something good once on this: "By calling him humourless I mean to impugn his seriousness".
How can one appreciate the seriousness of the world, one's ideas and oneself unless one is properly, even viscerally, aware of the absurdities that are inherent in such things?
posted by howfar at 8:22 PM on October 18, 2012 [7 favorites]
Martin Amis wrote something good once on this: "By calling him humourless I mean to impugn his seriousness".
How can one appreciate the seriousness of the world, one's ideas and oneself unless one is properly, even viscerally, aware of the absurdities that are inherent in such things?
posted by howfar at 8:22 PM on October 18, 2012 [7 favorites]
A mighty heartfelt thank you to all of you who keep these political posts alive with musings, information, and incites.
Without metafilter, I would be a gallup poll away from self-immolation in front of one of Mitt Romney's McMansions.
The only good thing to come from this election is I finally see what all the right wing talking heads mean when they trash talk liberals as fractious undisciplined rabble.
We have two choices in this election. One is a champion of a man, self made, who confronts more impossible moral dilemmas in an hour than I have made in my entire life.
President Obama is more than a hero, more than my hero. He is a champion raging against founts of pure corporate evil. I love and admire my President. He speaks openly about his inspiration- we the people, all of us rich and poor alike. I blush when I hear him speak. We inspire him, he inspires us, a blissful uplifting dance of inspiration. How did we luck out and end up with such an awesomely inspiring President / Prophet, a secular sage par excellence?
In one term, President Obama blew a decade of hard earned political capital fighting selflessly for the American people. He courageously chose to rescue the American automobile industry from bankruptcy and dismemberment, chose Keynesian common sense over austerity to revive a faltering economy, and forced too-large-to-fail banks to come up with living wills so taxpayer's would be off the hook for their risky bets.
When the economy was set on the right track, the President could have coasted to his second term. He did not have to push for healthcare reform, which is bizzarely still unpopular with the people. However, our President saw people, HIS people, American people, dieing for lack of health care. So our President kept fighting, and passed the most progressive legislation since the civil rights act, health care for all Americans.
After this, a bitter and impossible to satisfy American electorate rewarded his discipline and wisdom with electoral defeat and unpopularity. Still, he did not give up fighting for the people. He brought our troops home from Iraq, and offered amnesty to American born children of immigrants, he ended DADT, and stood up to republican oligarchs for the cause of freedom.
I can count the President's failures on one hand. Drone strikes, a lack of transparency, some bolstering of excutive power, and a failure to control the narrative. Some may also lament "the President always seeks compromise." Rest assured, compromise is not a sign of weakness; compromise is the hallmark of a great leader.
I am fully prepared to acknowledge the President's failings, but they are literally specks of dust next to a mountain of incredible achievement. If we are blessed to re-elect President Obama, we will be treated to one of the greatest second acts of any President in history. An invigorated Obama will finish immigration reform, restore American public schools to their rightful place at the top of the world, and end America's longest war. He will set us on the path towards a progressive future by increasing funding for science and green energy, and will help to endear a generation of Americans to the democratic party and the cause of liberalism.
If a fickle short sighted minority votes him out of office, it will only be due to the inaction and apathy of decent people. Still, history will enshrine our President as the most accomplished since FDR, a man of flawless moral character, rare wit and generosity, who nearly singlehandedly saved America from economic ruin.
Up against a legend, OUR legend, the American dream made flesh, is an amalgamation of everything wrong with our country animated to something approximating life. Mitt Romney is a living monument to dieing white privilege. I have never seen a man so singularly unqualified to be president so close to becoming president. Mitt Romney is barely qualified to be a tourist in the whitehouse.
His political achievements include one miserable, ineffective term as governor, followed by 6 years spent running for President fulltime.
Mitt would set this country back decades, economically, socially, and in the eyes of the world. He would ready the lamb of America for slaughter at the hands of his crony capitalist buddies, and rest assured they would plunder this country from sea to shining sea, as wolves ravaging their helpless pinned prey. Worse, he would also coopt President Obama's economic recovery, and thus would set back the cause of liberalism indefinitely.
This election is not just about the 'lesser of two evils' as my cynnical self righteous leftist friends believe. They would rather insulate themselves in denial and pride so as to remain ideologically pure than 'compromise' themselves and make a tough choice. I suppose their purity prevents them from ever having to think critically about anything. They are no different from the libertarians and evangelical Christians, all of them enshrining their ideology as gospel, regardless of facts or truth. Nothing could be more immature. Nothing could be farther from the example President Obama has lived.
No, this election is about more than just a child's desire for ideological purity. This election is about good vs evil, choice vs fascism, kindness vs selfishness. Will we stand united for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and repudiate death, tyranny, and the pursuit of wealth above all else consequences be damned, or will we fracture our strength into a million disparate causes, and register a bunch of useless protest votes, or worse - just stay home?
I know one thing, "I ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more." I stand with the President against the darkness.
tldr; Vote early, because an early vote is a powerful vote.
posted by jalitt at 8:32 PM on October 18, 2012 [42 favorites]
Without metafilter, I would be a gallup poll away from self-immolation in front of one of Mitt Romney's McMansions.
The only good thing to come from this election is I finally see what all the right wing talking heads mean when they trash talk liberals as fractious undisciplined rabble.
We have two choices in this election. One is a champion of a man, self made, who confronts more impossible moral dilemmas in an hour than I have made in my entire life.
President Obama is more than a hero, more than my hero. He is a champion raging against founts of pure corporate evil. I love and admire my President. He speaks openly about his inspiration- we the people, all of us rich and poor alike. I blush when I hear him speak. We inspire him, he inspires us, a blissful uplifting dance of inspiration. How did we luck out and end up with such an awesomely inspiring President / Prophet, a secular sage par excellence?
In one term, President Obama blew a decade of hard earned political capital fighting selflessly for the American people. He courageously chose to rescue the American automobile industry from bankruptcy and dismemberment, chose Keynesian common sense over austerity to revive a faltering economy, and forced too-large-to-fail banks to come up with living wills so taxpayer's would be off the hook for their risky bets.
When the economy was set on the right track, the President could have coasted to his second term. He did not have to push for healthcare reform, which is bizzarely still unpopular with the people. However, our President saw people, HIS people, American people, dieing for lack of health care. So our President kept fighting, and passed the most progressive legislation since the civil rights act, health care for all Americans.
After this, a bitter and impossible to satisfy American electorate rewarded his discipline and wisdom with electoral defeat and unpopularity. Still, he did not give up fighting for the people. He brought our troops home from Iraq, and offered amnesty to American born children of immigrants, he ended DADT, and stood up to republican oligarchs for the cause of freedom.
I can count the President's failures on one hand. Drone strikes, a lack of transparency, some bolstering of excutive power, and a failure to control the narrative. Some may also lament "the President always seeks compromise." Rest assured, compromise is not a sign of weakness; compromise is the hallmark of a great leader.
I am fully prepared to acknowledge the President's failings, but they are literally specks of dust next to a mountain of incredible achievement. If we are blessed to re-elect President Obama, we will be treated to one of the greatest second acts of any President in history. An invigorated Obama will finish immigration reform, restore American public schools to their rightful place at the top of the world, and end America's longest war. He will set us on the path towards a progressive future by increasing funding for science and green energy, and will help to endear a generation of Americans to the democratic party and the cause of liberalism.
If a fickle short sighted minority votes him out of office, it will only be due to the inaction and apathy of decent people. Still, history will enshrine our President as the most accomplished since FDR, a man of flawless moral character, rare wit and generosity, who nearly singlehandedly saved America from economic ruin.
Up against a legend, OUR legend, the American dream made flesh, is an amalgamation of everything wrong with our country animated to something approximating life. Mitt Romney is a living monument to dieing white privilege. I have never seen a man so singularly unqualified to be president so close to becoming president. Mitt Romney is barely qualified to be a tourist in the whitehouse.
His political achievements include one miserable, ineffective term as governor, followed by 6 years spent running for President fulltime.
Mitt would set this country back decades, economically, socially, and in the eyes of the world. He would ready the lamb of America for slaughter at the hands of his crony capitalist buddies, and rest assured they would plunder this country from sea to shining sea, as wolves ravaging their helpless pinned prey. Worse, he would also coopt President Obama's economic recovery, and thus would set back the cause of liberalism indefinitely.
This election is not just about the 'lesser of two evils' as my cynnical self righteous leftist friends believe. They would rather insulate themselves in denial and pride so as to remain ideologically pure than 'compromise' themselves and make a tough choice. I suppose their purity prevents them from ever having to think critically about anything. They are no different from the libertarians and evangelical Christians, all of them enshrining their ideology as gospel, regardless of facts or truth. Nothing could be more immature. Nothing could be farther from the example President Obama has lived.
No, this election is about more than just a child's desire for ideological purity. This election is about good vs evil, choice vs fascism, kindness vs selfishness. Will we stand united for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and repudiate death, tyranny, and the pursuit of wealth above all else consequences be damned, or will we fracture our strength into a million disparate causes, and register a bunch of useless protest votes, or worse - just stay home?
I know one thing, "I ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more." I stand with the President against the darkness.
tldr; Vote early, because an early vote is a powerful vote.
posted by jalitt at 8:32 PM on October 18, 2012 [42 favorites]
After Obama won in 2008, my loved ones and I kept telling each other that we felt relieved. It was as though the targets on our backs suddenly weren't there anymore -- or weren't as big, because now we were going to have a commander in chief who'd step in to run interference between us and those doing the targeting. For the most part, he's done that.
The day after the election, I had one of those sotto voce conversations in the hallway with a co-worker. I was a little bit in elated shock and was trying to explain how I felt. I said "This isn't the right analogy, but I feel like I just got together the gumption to leave an abusive relationship." It was that much night and day. I suddenly felt that feeling of "I don't have to walk on eggshells any more. I don't have to have my reality questioned every day any more. I don't have to live on that edge of fear and glad-when-nothing-terrible-is-happening-right-now any more." Until that day I never quite realized that yes, it does matter at a very personal level who the figurehead is, and what their values are. But it does. You can feel it every minute - not just when you travel abroad, or travel in another part of your country, but every moment, even at home. You know whether or not you're included or excluded from the things which the country says it values.
What, really? Unless you count the tiny chance of town hall softball lobber or raking in mediocre focus group luncheons as huge wins, is there a strategy here?
Do you not know any "undecided voters?" They're the least strategic people in the world. They have an outsized idea of what a single vote is worth, and they really like the posture - and the attention - of considering themselves someone who, until the last second, could go either way. They aren't even going to get a single concrete reward out of this of the kind you've suggested. That's not even a goal. It's a psychological thing, and it's about very, very poor critical thinking skills.
posted by Miko at 8:53 PM on October 18, 2012 [23 favorites]
The day after the election, I had one of those sotto voce conversations in the hallway with a co-worker. I was a little bit in elated shock and was trying to explain how I felt. I said "This isn't the right analogy, but I feel like I just got together the gumption to leave an abusive relationship." It was that much night and day. I suddenly felt that feeling of "I don't have to walk on eggshells any more. I don't have to have my reality questioned every day any more. I don't have to live on that edge of fear and glad-when-nothing-terrible-is-happening-right-now any more." Until that day I never quite realized that yes, it does matter at a very personal level who the figurehead is, and what their values are. But it does. You can feel it every minute - not just when you travel abroad, or travel in another part of your country, but every moment, even at home. You know whether or not you're included or excluded from the things which the country says it values.
What, really? Unless you count the tiny chance of town hall softball lobber or raking in mediocre focus group luncheons as huge wins, is there a strategy here?
Do you not know any "undecided voters?" They're the least strategic people in the world. They have an outsized idea of what a single vote is worth, and they really like the posture - and the attention - of considering themselves someone who, until the last second, could go either way. They aren't even going to get a single concrete reward out of this of the kind you've suggested. That's not even a goal. It's a psychological thing, and it's about very, very poor critical thinking skills.
posted by Miko at 8:53 PM on October 18, 2012 [23 favorites]
With all of the money in the election, I'm kind of surprised undecideds don't get offered money directly by GOP supporters to vote for Romney. I guess it would just be too difficult to do without getting caught.
posted by Golden Eternity at 9:05 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Golden Eternity at 9:05 PM on October 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
> So, uh, that 47% video just keeps on giving.
Too right, right down to a planned campaign strategy not based on policies, but on a tried and true election-winning scheme. Romney's a power plotter, and he's doing reasonably well.
It's been a mistake to focus merely on the 47% slight, as if that were the only revelation to be had.
With Romney, policies come after office, and most likely don't even include Ryan's Path to Prosperity. It's been a convenient campaign prop all along. Romney's raised five sons, remember? Ryan's going to end up with custard on his face.
Romney's sure to step off from, and cash in on, his expected initial economic recovery-bubble ... a little market manipulation first off, to get America's old blood flowing.
No-one else in the world is going to be all that impressed with resurrecting another American Century, though. (Romney doesn't even know who his enemies are in the new world order.)
Romney appears devoid of diplomacy, like he's running for ruler of the world and that's that.
Not good. Someone needs to explain intelligently to the electorate on mass all that was implied in the leaked fundraiser video, and how at odds it can be with current world co-operation for global goals (to which Obama is party). Or has Maddow already done an hour long special I don't know about?
posted by de at 9:12 PM on October 18, 2012
Too right, right down to a planned campaign strategy not based on policies, but on a tried and true election-winning scheme. Romney's a power plotter, and he's doing reasonably well.
It's been a mistake to focus merely on the 47% slight, as if that were the only revelation to be had.
With Romney, policies come after office, and most likely don't even include Ryan's Path to Prosperity. It's been a convenient campaign prop all along. Romney's raised five sons, remember? Ryan's going to end up with custard on his face.
Romney's sure to step off from, and cash in on, his expected initial economic recovery-bubble ... a little market manipulation first off, to get America's old blood flowing.
No-one else in the world is going to be all that impressed with resurrecting another American Century, though. (Romney doesn't even know who his enemies are in the new world order.)
Romney appears devoid of diplomacy, like he's running for ruler of the world and that's that.
Not good. Someone needs to explain intelligently to the electorate on mass all that was implied in the leaked fundraiser video, and how at odds it can be with current world co-operation for global goals (to which Obama is party). Or has Maddow already done an hour long special I don't know about?
posted by de at 9:12 PM on October 18, 2012
Star Commentator Is Out as Christian College President After Scandal
“I’ll be honest, I don’t think most of the students really like D’Souza,” (a student) said. “The students are a lot more moderate than D’Souza.” He added, “It’s an outstanding academic school, and we have an unacademic reputation.”
“I had no idea that it is considered wrong in Christian circles to be engaged prior to being divorced,” (D'Souza) wrote on FoxNews.com. “As a result of all this, and to avoid even the appearance of impropriety,” he wrote, he was suspending his engagement.
posted by Golden Eternity at 9:20 PM on October 18, 2012
“I’ll be honest, I don’t think most of the students really like D’Souza,” (a student) said. “The students are a lot more moderate than D’Souza.” He added, “It’s an outstanding academic school, and we have an unacademic reputation.”
“I had no idea that it is considered wrong in Christian circles to be engaged prior to being divorced,” (D'Souza) wrote on FoxNews.com. “As a result of all this, and to avoid even the appearance of impropriety,” he wrote, he was suspending his engagement.
posted by Golden Eternity at 9:20 PM on October 18, 2012
“I had no idea that it is considered wrong in Christian circles to be engaged prior to being divorced,”
That's what you get for taking relationship advice from Newt and Rudy.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:30 PM on October 18, 2012 [13 favorites]
That's what you get for taking relationship advice from Newt and Rudy.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:30 PM on October 18, 2012 [13 favorites]
In Debate, McCaskill Avoids Attacking Akin on 'Legitimate Rape'
Legitimate Rape
posted by homunculus at 1:01 AM on October 19, 2012
Legitimate Rape
posted by homunculus at 1:01 AM on October 19, 2012
Just watched the current Al Smith video. "Spoiler alert, we got Bin Laden."
And yeah, our current president has a good sense of humor.
Also watched him on Letterman tonight, where he's the guy I want in charge. Sensible, moral, and good.
posted by lilywing13 at 2:12 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
And yeah, our current president has a good sense of humor.
Also watched him on Letterman tonight, where he's the guy I want in charge. Sensible, moral, and good.
posted by lilywing13 at 2:12 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Golden Eternity: "“I had no idea that it is considered wrong in Christian circles to be engaged prior to being divorced,” (D'Souza)"
And he's one of the intellectuals in the Republican Party.
posted by notsnot at 4:44 AM on October 19, 2012 [5 favorites]
And he's one of the intellectuals in the Republican Party.
posted by notsnot at 4:44 AM on October 19, 2012 [5 favorites]
Five Thirty Eight has Obama up to a 70% chance of winning now. I feel a little better now. Of course, I still don't understand why this isn't a blow out election for Obama but there are things that I'll just never get.
posted by octothorpe at 5:07 AM on October 19, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 5:07 AM on October 19, 2012 [5 favorites]
“With modern technology and science, you can't find one instance. There is no such exception as life of the mother, and as far as health of the mother, same thing.” - Rep. Joe Walsh, Illinois.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:15 AM on October 19, 2012
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:15 AM on October 19, 2012
Ryan's going to end up with custard on his face.
More liberal lies. It has been firmly established that Mr Romney likes to smear butter, or alternately whipped cream, onto the faces of young boys.
posted by howfar at 5:35 AM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
More liberal lies. It has been firmly established that Mr Romney likes to smear butter, or alternately whipped cream, onto the faces of young boys.
posted by howfar at 5:35 AM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
There is no such exception as life of the mother
For crying out loud. It just shows how profoundly little these legislators know about actual human reproduction. They just don't know anything about it.
posted by Miko at 6:11 AM on October 19, 2012 [10 favorites]
For crying out loud. It just shows how profoundly little these legislators know about actual human reproduction. They just don't know anything about it.
posted by Miko at 6:11 AM on October 19, 2012 [10 favorites]
golden eterntiy, i seem to remember bush basically doing just that - handing out dollar bills or something at rallies in october of 2000. classy.
posted by fingers_of_fire at 6:22 AM on October 19, 2012
posted by fingers_of_fire at 6:22 AM on October 19, 2012
You know, if our obstetricians have that superhuman power to preserve life, maybe it would be an idea to stop Overton Windowing towards shooting them? Just a thought.
posted by running order squabble fest at 6:28 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by running order squabble fest at 6:28 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Well isn't this just a pleaasant turn of events - Randall Terry has released a graphic new campaign ad that doesn't just show graphic images of aborted fetues, it also accuses Samuel L. Jackson of being an "Uncle Tom" and has images of burning crosses - and because it's paid for by a PAC, there's nothing anyone can do about it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:45 AM on October 19, 2012
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:45 AM on October 19, 2012
Why I am a Christian Democrat
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:01 AM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:01 AM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
I am a Democrat because, in many churches (including mine), being a Christian Democrat is not an oxymoron.Indeed, the vast majority of Democrats are Christians - just, perhaps, not Real True ChristiansTM (although some RTC are probably also Democrats).
posted by muddgirl at 7:20 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
It just hit me that what I tend to call Cell Phone fact checking, like the "Lobbyist" video I linked above or, even more importantly, the famous 47% video, really might be the reason we don't end up with a Romney in the White House.
Take a second and let that settle in. This ain't over, nor am I saying that the myriad of other places where Obama > Romney in one way/shape/form didn't count or weren't important but things just may have been close enough to the tipping point that those videos acted as the saving grace.
Wow.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:21 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Take a second and let that settle in. This ain't over, nor am I saying that the myriad of other places where Obama > Romney in one way/shape/form didn't count or weren't important but things just may have been close enough to the tipping point that those videos acted as the saving grace.
Wow.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:21 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Golden Eternity: " “I had no idea that it is considered wrong in Christian circles to be engaged prior to being divorced,” (D'Souza) wrote on FoxNews.com. “As a result of all this, and to avoid even the appearance of impropriety,” he wrote, he was suspending his engagement."
I don't know if it'll work out between these two, but at least they both agree that adultery is squarely in the "for me and not for thee" category.
Conservatism in a nutshell. Rules are for the little people.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:28 AM on October 19, 2012
I don't know if it'll work out between these two, but at least they both agree that adultery is squarely in the "for me and not for thee" category.
Conservatism in a nutshell. Rules are for the little people.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:28 AM on October 19, 2012
The Burden of a Black President by Ta-Nehisi Coates
posted by shortfuse at 7:36 AM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by shortfuse at 7:36 AM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
I've had bigger fish to fry the last few days, but I just wanted to record my thought that another entry on the long, shameful list of things Romney apparently doesn't understand is "good-natured ribbing."
posted by ob1quixote at 8:17 AM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by ob1quixote at 8:17 AM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
Can someone explain what kind of crowd reaction Romney is getting after this "I have my beautiful wife, Ann, and you have Bill Clinton." joke? Is he getting booed?
posted by Room 641-A at 8:35 AM on October 19, 2012
posted by Room 641-A at 8:35 AM on October 19, 2012
Yeah, at the risk of being painted as a lefty who can't take a joke, I thought Romney went too far in some of his bits.
The usual routine for these things is something like half self-deprecation, 30% good-natured ribbing of the opponent, 10% jokes at the media's expense, and 10% nice stuff about the hosts, guests, etc. Romney decided to go with a few token jabs at his teetotalism and wealth (oh, how embarassing!) and then spend most of it using thinly-veiled jabs at Obama's policies ("brought to you by the letter O and the number 16 trillion", "so little time, so much to redistribute") and even his wife with the Clinton thing. Yeah, I know it's funny to think of an Obama/Clinton bro-mance, but the obvious implication is that Michelle isn't a beautiful wife, and isn't by Obama's side the way Ann is. Obviously, the crowd agreed that it was more than just a harmless joke.
If these were coming from someone with any reputation for being able to take a joke at his expense, I might laugh these off, but I really think the routine was more mean-spirited than usual. Even Bush spent most of his time hitting himself and the press instead of his opponents.
I know these don't actually matter much in the end, but it's really telling that even at a charity dinner, Romney couldn't turn the political knife-twisting off for just one night. It's been said that many a truth is said in jest, and this is definitely the case with Romney's Jeffrey Ross-style routine.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:53 AM on October 19, 2012 [11 favorites]
The usual routine for these things is something like half self-deprecation, 30% good-natured ribbing of the opponent, 10% jokes at the media's expense, and 10% nice stuff about the hosts, guests, etc. Romney decided to go with a few token jabs at his teetotalism and wealth (oh, how embarassing!) and then spend most of it using thinly-veiled jabs at Obama's policies ("brought to you by the letter O and the number 16 trillion", "so little time, so much to redistribute") and even his wife with the Clinton thing. Yeah, I know it's funny to think of an Obama/Clinton bro-mance, but the obvious implication is that Michelle isn't a beautiful wife, and isn't by Obama's side the way Ann is. Obviously, the crowd agreed that it was more than just a harmless joke.
If these were coming from someone with any reputation for being able to take a joke at his expense, I might laugh these off, but I really think the routine was more mean-spirited than usual. Even Bush spent most of his time hitting himself and the press instead of his opponents.
I know these don't actually matter much in the end, but it's really telling that even at a charity dinner, Romney couldn't turn the political knife-twisting off for just one night. It's been said that many a truth is said in jest, and this is definitely the case with Romney's Jeffrey Ross-style routine.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:53 AM on October 19, 2012 [11 favorites]
tonycpsu, while I agree with you, he didn't write those jokes.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:58 AM on October 19, 2012
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:58 AM on October 19, 2012
In spite of EmpressCallipygos's link to a local Roanoke media outlet, and in spite of the whole "you didn't build that" debacle originating in a Roanoke speech, Roanoke is filled with sane, non-hateful people who actually lean blue. We have a small but dedicated Occupy contingent that has been giving out soup and winter coats every Saturday for a year. The region's largest employer, a nonprofit hospital system, was just publicly shamed by the locals into changing their definition of "family" for their gym memberships. A local businessman just spent his time, money, and effort, and got other businesses to chip in too, to undo hate-crime vandalism to a college student's car. And although the nearby military college recently hosted Mitt Romney for a speech, they objected to his framing it as though they invited him and went to great lengths to distance themselves from his campaign.
posted by headnsouth at 8:59 AM on October 19, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by headnsouth at 8:59 AM on October 19, 2012 [7 favorites]
roomthreeseventeen: "tonycpsu, while I agree with you, he didn't write those jokes."
How is that relevant? If he becomes President (shudder) do we give him a pass if he signs bad legislation because he didn't write it?
posted by tonycpsu at 9:01 AM on October 19, 2012
How is that relevant? If he becomes President (shudder) do we give him a pass if he signs bad legislation because he didn't write it?
posted by tonycpsu at 9:01 AM on October 19, 2012
tonycpsu, of course not.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:05 AM on October 19, 2012
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:05 AM on October 19, 2012
He signed off on the material.
I completely agree with tonycpsu that Romney didn't do the self-deprecating part right. It's something nearly all conservatives seem to be terrible at. One exception I can think of is Bob Dole (at least in his appearances on Jon Stewart).
He was also too harsh in his jokes. It's apparent he feels humor is just a means to be utilized in achieving his goals. I get the feeling he doesn't genuinely respect any area of accomplishment outside of finance. The same thing came through very vividly in his debate with Ted Kennedy, by the way.
That said, it's OK that Romney has a lesser natural sense of humor than the President. It's his policies that are the real problem, not his ability to deliver a joke.
posted by rainy at 9:10 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
I completely agree with tonycpsu that Romney didn't do the self-deprecating part right. It's something nearly all conservatives seem to be terrible at. One exception I can think of is Bob Dole (at least in his appearances on Jon Stewart).
He was also too harsh in his jokes. It's apparent he feels humor is just a means to be utilized in achieving his goals. I get the feeling he doesn't genuinely respect any area of accomplishment outside of finance. The same thing came through very vividly in his debate with Ted Kennedy, by the way.
That said, it's OK that Romney has a lesser natural sense of humor than the President. It's his policies that are the real problem, not his ability to deliver a joke.
posted by rainy at 9:10 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Parsing Obama on Guantanamo
Obama Makes the Case for Releasing the Targeted Killing Memo
posted by homunculus at 9:12 AM on October 19, 2012
Obama Makes the Case for Releasing the Targeted Killing Memo
posted by homunculus at 9:12 AM on October 19, 2012
For the record, headnsouth - I only selected the Roanoke link because it was the only link I could find that was at a news outlet rather than just a blog, and I wanted it to be as "just the facts" as I could. I also note that the Roanoke paper reports that the news outlets there are trying to amelliorate the ad by placing warning notices in front of every screening, which speaks well of Roanoke, to my mind.
I meant no criticism of the people of Roanoke and I'm sorry that wasn't clear. My criticism is solely directed at Randall Terry, whom I think is a barking-mad fruitbat.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:15 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
I meant no criticism of the people of Roanoke and I'm sorry that wasn't clear. My criticism is solely directed at Randall Terry, whom I think is a barking-mad fruitbat.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:15 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
I've been hesistant to call Romney out on his "jokes" last night because I didn't want to be perceived as a whiner, but I do think they were mean-spirited at their core. (And even if he didn't write the jokes, he was OK with them or he wouldn't have read them). He just struck me as the person we all know who buries really hurtful comments in something that's supposed to be a joke, so that when you are hurt or get angry from it, they have an out and can say "I was ONLY JOKING." I never saw Romney vary from his usual speech-making, no lip grimace the entire time and certainly saw nothing even resembling a laugh.
As rainy says above, it really doesn't matter if he has a sense of humor or not, but I do think his inability to relax and relate is an issue and his need to score points at every opportunity speaks to his character.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 9:22 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
As rainy says above, it really doesn't matter if he has a sense of humor or not, but I do think his inability to relax and relate is an issue and his need to score points at every opportunity speaks to his character.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 9:22 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Have to say, though - he may have gone too far into party politics with the gags about Biden, the unemployment figures and the $16 trillion - and indeed the "if you've got a church, you didn't build that", which was pretty douchey - but Romney really surprised me with his comic timing.
posted by running order squabble fest at 9:27 AM on October 19, 2012
posted by running order squabble fest at 9:27 AM on October 19, 2012
Sorry EmpressCallipygos, I realize my "in spite of" sounds like I'm calling you out ... not at all, and your post was clear! Just thought I'd respond to counter the cumulative effect of Roanoke being associated with multiple stories that bring pleasure to the right-leaning folks among us. Virginia is definitely a scary state to be in these days, as our former health commissioner (and all Virginia women!) can tell you.
I will say too, from my anecdotal observation the Obama camp is not doing all they can to secure votes in this swing state. I have an 18-year-old who is about to vote in his first election. He gets mail almost every day from Romney, and I've opened the door three times to Romney door-to-door volunteers (they don't want to talk to me, just to him). One Dem guy came by, and he was a Tim Kaine volunteer. Not sure why they're overlooking fresh meat when that was a winner for them 4 years ago.
posted by headnsouth at 9:27 AM on October 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
I will say too, from my anecdotal observation the Obama camp is not doing all they can to secure votes in this swing state. I have an 18-year-old who is about to vote in his first election. He gets mail almost every day from Romney, and I've opened the door three times to Romney door-to-door volunteers (they don't want to talk to me, just to him). One Dem guy came by, and he was a Tim Kaine volunteer. Not sure why they're overlooking fresh meat when that was a winner for them 4 years ago.
posted by headnsouth at 9:27 AM on October 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
running order squabble fest: "Romney really surprised me with his comic timing."
Yeah, he delivered the lines very well. Maddow had real-life comedian W. Kamau Bell on last night to critique the candidates' performances (yes, we've gotten to the point where we bring on experts to analyze trivial events like this) and he said that Romney's delivery was excellent, but his facial expressions did a bad job of conveying that he was having fun doing his schtick. You want the audience to laugh with you, and while it's bad form to be constantly laughing at your own material, it can't hurt to smile a bit and at least act like you're enjoying the experience.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:33 AM on October 19, 2012
Yeah, he delivered the lines very well. Maddow had real-life comedian W. Kamau Bell on last night to critique the candidates' performances (yes, we've gotten to the point where we bring on experts to analyze trivial events like this) and he said that Romney's delivery was excellent, but his facial expressions did a bad job of conveying that he was having fun doing his schtick. You want the audience to laugh with you, and while it's bad form to be constantly laughing at your own material, it can't hurt to smile a bit and at least act like you're enjoying the experience.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:33 AM on October 19, 2012
I don't think anyone needs to add a disclaimer that they're not being a whiner when talking about Romney being harsh, because nobody's doing a FOX News-style "How dare he! He was so mean and unprofessional to our guy and hurt him and it's unfair!" thing as if his harsh, badly-delivered jokes could actually hurt anyone. It's more "wow, being humorless and harsh was kind of a dumb choice for this thing" instead of "our jimmies, you have rustled them."
If Romney had an actual sense of humor and wit and could learn to laugh at himself, he'd have been relatable enough to land a few sly and effective blows against Obama while still making everyone laugh.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:35 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
If Romney had an actual sense of humor and wit and could learn to laugh at himself, he'd have been relatable enough to land a few sly and effective blows against Obama while still making everyone laugh.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:35 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
You're relatable enough, Mitt.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:37 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 9:37 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
By the way the sequel to The Passage is REALLY FUCKING AWESOME. This is why I love horror: there's Romney/Ryan and then there's "the unique sensation of being torn in half." I mean, I'm an angry liberal now, I hate R/R's dishonest, pretty much evil philosophy, and I know this race is far from over. But if you think, 'o well not being torn in half' I think a definite mental health benefit accrues.
posted by angrycat at 9:38 AM on October 19, 2012
posted by angrycat at 9:38 AM on October 19, 2012
headnsouth: "Not sure why they're overlooking fresh meat when that was a winner for them 4 years ago."
Isn't Roanoke in the part of the state that's generally considered prime Virgil Goode territory? My guess is that from an allocation of resources perspective, Romney's people probably see Southern VA as must-hold territory, whereas the Obama folks are happy to let Goode and Romney fight for those voters and concentrate on easier gains to be had in other parts of the state. Heck, if I were the head of a Democratic SuperPAC with millions of dollars to throw around, I might send some of my people down your way with Goode yard signs just to split the Republican vote.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:38 AM on October 19, 2012
Isn't Roanoke in the part of the state that's generally considered prime Virgil Goode territory? My guess is that from an allocation of resources perspective, Romney's people probably see Southern VA as must-hold territory, whereas the Obama folks are happy to let Goode and Romney fight for those voters and concentrate on easier gains to be had in other parts of the state. Heck, if I were the head of a Democratic SuperPAC with millions of dollars to throw around, I might send some of my people down your way with Goode yard signs just to split the Republican vote.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:38 AM on October 19, 2012
Crowdsourcing your election humour needs:
Please proceed, Governor.
posted by Herodios at 9:46 AM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
Please proceed, Governor.
posted by Herodios at 9:46 AM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
I don't think there is such a place as "prime Virgil Goode territory" but if there is, it certainly isn't Roanoke.
posted by headnsouth at 9:46 AM on October 19, 2012
posted by headnsouth at 9:46 AM on October 19, 2012
I just caught up with their stand-up routines and Romney's was better than I thought based on what I was reading here. The more awkwardly he had to set up a joke combined with how much it relied on established political attacks, the worse off he was. You can get away with quick jabs at your opponent like "I wish the president had brought Joe Biden because he'll laugh at anything" or a longer-winded pointed joke about yourself but it's not good to combine them. I thought his short, self-directed material was pretty good (tuxedo joke (maybe my favorite joke of the night overall), designated driver).
Obama's material had quite a few pointed jabs against the opposition, but he pulled most of them off because they were well-written and his delivery was quick.
Good:
Loved to go to Old Yankee Stadium, the House that Ruth Built, although he really did not build that. I hope everybody is aware of that.
Sometimes it feels like this race has dragged on forever, but Paul Ryan assured me that we've only been running for two hours and fifty something minutes.
Less Good:
Reminded me of my visits to Old Yankee Stadium, which you know was funded in large part through tax breaks from the city government, but's it's a good thing no one ever told Babe Ruth he didn't build that.
Sometimes it feels like this race has dragged on forever. I was talking with Paul Ryan the other day, a guy who's run a lot of races, or at least that's what he keeps saying, and he said he feels like he's only been running for two hours and fifty something minutes.
Probably my favorite Obama line was: "Now, win or lose, this is my last political campaign so I'm trying to drink it all in. Unfortunately Mayor Bloomberg will only let me have 16 ounces."
Writing good stand-up is hard, even when it's your full-time job to both write it and deliver it and you don't have all the restrictions posed by this event (ok, make fun of this guy NOT TOO MUCH, but still funny, avoid these topics, no fine-tuning opportunities etc.). So I'm willing to cut their speechwriters a little slack if a joke falls flat or falls a bit too much on the mean-spirited side of things.
posted by mikepop at 10:18 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Obama's material had quite a few pointed jabs against the opposition, but he pulled most of them off because they were well-written and his delivery was quick.
Good:
Loved to go to Old Yankee Stadium, the House that Ruth Built, although he really did not build that. I hope everybody is aware of that.
Sometimes it feels like this race has dragged on forever, but Paul Ryan assured me that we've only been running for two hours and fifty something minutes.
Less Good:
Reminded me of my visits to Old Yankee Stadium, which you know was funded in large part through tax breaks from the city government, but's it's a good thing no one ever told Babe Ruth he didn't build that.
Sometimes it feels like this race has dragged on forever. I was talking with Paul Ryan the other day, a guy who's run a lot of races, or at least that's what he keeps saying, and he said he feels like he's only been running for two hours and fifty something minutes.
Probably my favorite Obama line was: "Now, win or lose, this is my last political campaign so I'm trying to drink it all in. Unfortunately Mayor Bloomberg will only let me have 16 ounces."
Writing good stand-up is hard, even when it's your full-time job to both write it and deliver it and you don't have all the restrictions posed by this event (ok, make fun of this guy NOT TOO MUCH, but still funny, avoid these topics, no fine-tuning opportunities etc.). So I'm willing to cut their speechwriters a little slack if a joke falls flat or falls a bit too much on the mean-spirited side of things.
posted by mikepop at 10:18 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Growing Up Romney -- "Mitt, Tagg, and the Romney family's myth of self-reliance."
posted by ericb at 11:01 AM on October 19, 2012
posted by ericb at 11:01 AM on October 19, 2012
“Binders Full of Women” and the Partisan Mind
posted by Golden Eternity at 11:02 AM on October 19, 2012
posted by Golden Eternity at 11:02 AM on October 19, 2012
Paul Ryan Mocks 'War On Women' At Private Fundraiser.
posted by ericb at 11:07 AM on October 19, 2012
posted by ericb at 11:07 AM on October 19, 2012
The Burden of a Black President
Within the last six months or so, I've come to really love Ta-Nehisi Coates, and that essay only added to my admiration for him. He nails a lot of what I've been thinking.
And what he lays out there is the source of a lot of my anxiety over this election. I'm not only worried what harm Romney would do, or, by inaction, what harm he would allow to come to the nation and the world, I'm also worried about how Obama being a one-termer would hurt the prospects of future ethnic minority and female presidential candidates.
We've seen it in professional sports, cinema and the business world: if a woman or ethnic minority fails in a leadership position (e.g., quarterback, head coach, majority of casting/roles in a film, Director of Marketing, etc) then there can be resistance to appointing women and/or minorities to those positions afterward.
Certainly it doesn't happen all the time. But sports journalists have noted that black coaches are less likely to be put on the head coaching carousel when they fail with teams than white coaches are. Film critics have noted that Taylor Kitsch can bomb repeatedly in lead roles while various "leading" actresses don't get that treatment.
So I fear that Obama losing could mean really bad things for Sec State Clinton or some other non-white male rising star in 2016 and beyond, especially since Democrats have shown an absolutely amazing tendency to take the wrong lessons from their losses. I can totally see "ZOMG, Obama losing means we can't hope to carry the South without a Southern, Protestant white male who's also a successful corporate dickhead heading the ticket!!!111!11" being shouted in DNC offices the morning after the election should Pres. Obama be sent home.
Man, I might need a bourbon IV drip to get me through the first week of November.
posted by lord_wolf at 11:08 AM on October 19, 2012 [6 favorites]
Within the last six months or so, I've come to really love Ta-Nehisi Coates, and that essay only added to my admiration for him. He nails a lot of what I've been thinking.
And what he lays out there is the source of a lot of my anxiety over this election. I'm not only worried what harm Romney would do, or, by inaction, what harm he would allow to come to the nation and the world, I'm also worried about how Obama being a one-termer would hurt the prospects of future ethnic minority and female presidential candidates.
We've seen it in professional sports, cinema and the business world: if a woman or ethnic minority fails in a leadership position (e.g., quarterback, head coach, majority of casting/roles in a film, Director of Marketing, etc) then there can be resistance to appointing women and/or minorities to those positions afterward.
Certainly it doesn't happen all the time. But sports journalists have noted that black coaches are less likely to be put on the head coaching carousel when they fail with teams than white coaches are. Film critics have noted that Taylor Kitsch can bomb repeatedly in lead roles while various "leading" actresses don't get that treatment.
So I fear that Obama losing could mean really bad things for Sec State Clinton or some other non-white male rising star in 2016 and beyond, especially since Democrats have shown an absolutely amazing tendency to take the wrong lessons from their losses. I can totally see "ZOMG, Obama losing means we can't hope to carry the South without a Southern, Protestant white male who's also a successful corporate dickhead heading the ticket!!!111!11" being shouted in DNC offices the morning after the election should Pres. Obama be sent home.
Man, I might need a bourbon IV drip to get me through the first week of November.
posted by lord_wolf at 11:08 AM on October 19, 2012 [6 favorites]
"If you come down with a case of Romnesia and you can't seem to remember the policies that are still on your website, or the promises you have made over the six years you've been running for president, here is the good news: Obamacare covers pre-existing conditions," Obama bellowed. "We can fix you up. We've got a cure. We can make you well."Oh man, that's great.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:10 AM on October 19, 2012 [22 favorites]
That "partisan mind" piece isn't very good. It resonated poorly for good reasons - not because, as the author suggests, women just don't know what they want.
The Romney Family piece is interesting. There's a strain of father-hero-worship that runs through the family. I read something similar about Mitt's adulation for George.
posted by Miko at 11:10 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
The Romney Family piece is interesting. There's a strain of father-hero-worship that runs through the family. I read something similar about Mitt's adulation for George.
posted by Miko at 11:10 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah, okay, that Romnesia stuff is brilliant. Very catchy.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:19 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:19 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
In the land of the partisan mind, of course, this part of Romney’s answer has likewise been invoked a sign of his out-of-touch “Donna Reed in the kitchen, Dad in the barcalounger” view of women — because maybe wives don’t want to make the dinner, governor! Maybe they want to be the ones working late at the office! But back in nonpartisan reality, both working mothers and stay-at-home mothers are likely to cite part-time rather than full-time work as their ideal professional situation. Not necessarily because they want to cook more meals for their children, true, but almost certainly because they like the idea of “being with them when they get home from,” just as Romney put it.
Ross Douthat is, as usual, on the good ship Meretricious Idiot sailing past Clue Point. I will provide a startling insight for him: even if flexible scheduling was universally what mothers wanted in preference to equal pay (which it isn't, because mothers are not a monolithic group) not all women are mothers. So basing public policy for women on the putative desires of mothers is completely out of touch in exactly the way people have been critiquing the binders full of women statement.
posted by winna at 11:20 AM on October 19, 2012 [21 favorites]
Ross Douthat is, as usual, on the good ship Meretricious Idiot sailing past Clue Point. I will provide a startling insight for him: even if flexible scheduling was universally what mothers wanted in preference to equal pay (which it isn't, because mothers are not a monolithic group) not all women are mothers. So basing public policy for women on the putative desires of mothers is completely out of touch in exactly the way people have been critiquing the binders full of women statement.
posted by winna at 11:20 AM on October 19, 2012 [21 favorites]
"Binders Full of Women" and the Partisan Mind
I thought this piece did make a good point in the last paragraph:
His non-inclusive language and poor framing of the scenario not only didn't answer the question about pay inequality, they went beyond being just an "amusingly maladroit phrase" uttered in the heat of a debate. They represent a worldview that many still see as a threat to our society and to personal fulfillment for all kinds of people, and that is what people are responding so strongly to.
posted by Superplin at 11:22 AM on October 19, 2012 [4 favorites]
I thought this piece did make a good point in the last paragraph:
The real problem with Romney’s comments about workplace and family issues is that (as is so often the case) there wasn’t any policy meat on the bone. (The cause of work-life balance would be dramatically furthered if Republicans actually backed the kind of family-friendly tax reform that certain voices on the right have been championing these last few years — but alas, no such luck.)I agree that the lack of policy support for opening up the workplace to equality measures is one of the really mockable points of Romney's debate argument, and I do wish I saw more candidates hammering on this issue. But I also think that the reason many people are reacting to his statements as retrograde is that they continue to frame "women's issues" as something apart from just plain good business and good public policy. More flexible time to be with one's family or pursue other activities, and greater diversity in hiring, are ways to improve the overall fabric of society for men and women of all races and ethnicities, not "sacrifices" to be made to pander to a particular interest group. Not to mention that there are plenty of people (women and men) without children or families to attend to, who would also benefit from these policies.
His non-inclusive language and poor framing of the scenario not only didn't answer the question about pay inequality, they went beyond being just an "amusingly maladroit phrase" uttered in the heat of a debate. They represent a worldview that many still see as a threat to our society and to personal fulfillment for all kinds of people, and that is what people are responding so strongly to.
posted by Superplin at 11:22 AM on October 19, 2012 [4 favorites]
"Romnesia" prediction: right now there are a dozen GOP operatives in a bullpen trying to think of a counter pun and it will be horrible. Something like "Barack O'Carter" trying to tie Libya to the Iran hostage situation, or "Barefaced Obama" trying to call him on his promises on the economy. All the Republican media people will push this horrible pun and it will fall flat and make them look bad. After a week they will drop it and the new story will be that they are trying to run a campaign on the issues while the president is name-calling.
posted by peeedro at 11:24 AM on October 19, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by peeedro at 11:24 AM on October 19, 2012 [6 favorites]
I'm a guy and part-time rather than full-time work would be my ideal professional situation as well. Extra leisure time while still feeling productive. I'd be willing to bet that it's a pretty popular thing across genders.
Thing is, there's an implied "...if I could make enough at that part time job to support myself/help support my family" that didn't get figured into the source they're pulling that from.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:26 AM on October 19, 2012
Thing is, there's an implied "...if I could make enough at that part time job to support myself/help support my family" that didn't get figured into the source they're pulling that from.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:26 AM on October 19, 2012
peeedro, don't do their homework for them.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:26 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:26 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
"Romnesia" prediction: right now there are a dozen GOP operatives in a bullpen trying to think of a counter pun and it will be horrible. Something like "Barack O'Carter" trying to tie Libya to the Iran hostage situation, or "Barefaced Obama" trying to call him on his promises on the economy. All the Republican media people will push this horrible pun and it will fall flat and make them look bad. After a week they will drop it and the new story will be that they are trying to run a campaign on the issues while the president is name-calling.
My Romnesia prediction is that Jeff Foxworthy will be on FOX News getting red in the face saying that the President ripped him off by phrasing it "you might have a case of Romnesia", and they'll try to spin that into gold.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:28 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
My Romnesia prediction is that Jeff Foxworthy will be on FOX News getting red in the face saying that the President ripped him off by phrasing it "you might have a case of Romnesia", and they'll try to spin that into gold.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:28 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
From the Paul Ryan mocks the war on women link:
“Now it’s a war on women; tomorrow it’s going to be a war on left-handed Irishmen or something like that,” Ryan told the crowd of donors, according to Shushanna Walshe of ABC News.
Wow. Has anyone told him that they need women's votes?
posted by winna at 11:29 AM on October 19, 2012
“Now it’s a war on women; tomorrow it’s going to be a war on left-handed Irishmen or something like that,” Ryan told the crowd of donors, according to Shushanna Walshe of ABC News.
Wow. Has anyone told him that they need women's votes?
posted by winna at 11:29 AM on October 19, 2012
Well, I'm a left-handed Irish Woman and he scares the fuck out me, tell you what.
posted by angrycat at 11:31 AM on October 19, 2012 [12 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 11:31 AM on October 19, 2012 [12 favorites]
“Now it’s a war on women; tomorrow it’s going to be a war on left-handed Irishmen or something like that,” Ryan told the crowd of donors, according to Shushanna Walshe of ABC News.
My father is a left-handed Irishman. OK Ryan, now it's personal!
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:31 AM on October 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
My father is a left-handed Irishman. OK Ryan, now it's personal!
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:31 AM on October 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
(Oops, I left out the "and my mother is a woman" part of that comment)
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:35 AM on October 19, 2012
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:35 AM on October 19, 2012
Mitt Romney kept saying "the top 5% pay 60% of the taxes". If the top 5% control 72% of the financial wealth, maybe we've identified the problem.
posted by DaddyNewt at 11:36 AM on October 19, 2012 [13 favorites]
posted by DaddyNewt at 11:36 AM on October 19, 2012 [13 favorites]
Yeah, I'd be thrilled to see the top 5% paying taxes in proportion to their share of wealth. Wouldn't that pretty much solve the deficit problem in and of itself?
posted by tonycpsu at 11:38 AM on October 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 11:38 AM on October 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
The statement from the Romney campaign on "Romnesia" is marvelous:
posted by gladly at 11:39 AM on October 19, 2012 [11 favorites]
President Obama has failed to put forward a second-term agenda – and when you don’t have a plan to run on, you stoop to scare tactics. What is really frightening is that we know a second term for President Obama will bring devastating defense cuts that will cost Virginia over 130,000 jobs, more burdensome regulations, and the biggest tax increase in history on our small businesses and families.I have no idea how Romnesia is a scare tactic, but Romney's statement just executed a perfect use of them right there.
posted by gladly at 11:39 AM on October 19, 2012 [11 favorites]
there's something kinda Orwellian in the Romney campaign language.
posted by angrycat at 11:41 AM on October 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 11:41 AM on October 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
Motes and planks in eyes and all that.
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:42 AM on October 19, 2012
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:42 AM on October 19, 2012
I watched the video like an hour ago and I had already read the transcript where he said "Romnesia" when I did, but I hadn't seen the whole transcript. So I liked the Romnesia line but I absolutely roared when he got to the "Here's the good news!" part, and the crowd was just boisterous at that point. Great video. [YouTube 4:43] - that second hilarious part is at 3:10.
posted by cashman at 11:48 AM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by cashman at 11:48 AM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
Reading the Growing Up Romney article that ericb linked, I was struck by this defense of the trust funds that the Romney boys have:
When he created a trust fund for his children, valued at some $100 million, he made the disbursements discretionary rather than have them pay out at regular intervals or when the kids reached a certain age. He wanted to send the message that Romneys don’t join the leisure class. “Look, he would like to make sure his family always has the money for the health care and education they need, or if they decide they want to be missionaries,” says one person familiar with the trust. (bolding mine)
It's astounding that this guy thinks that his children should have health care that they need (like Tagg's wife assisted fertility and surrogate) and a fully paid for college education without having to work or take out loans or if they just want to volunteer rather than work a paying job. He thinks his kids should have that, but mine don't deserve it as much? Also, again with the weird controlling the purse strings aspect of it too, he doles out the money as HE sees fit.
posted by hollygoheavy at 11:49 AM on October 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
When he created a trust fund for his children, valued at some $100 million, he made the disbursements discretionary rather than have them pay out at regular intervals or when the kids reached a certain age. He wanted to send the message that Romneys don’t join the leisure class. “Look, he would like to make sure his family always has the money for the health care and education they need, or if they decide they want to be missionaries,” says one person familiar with the trust. (bolding mine)
It's astounding that this guy thinks that his children should have health care that they need (like Tagg's wife assisted fertility and surrogate) and a fully paid for college education without having to work or take out loans or if they just want to volunteer rather than work a paying job. He thinks his kids should have that, but mine don't deserve it as much? Also, again with the weird controlling the purse strings aspect of it too, he doles out the money as HE sees fit.
posted by hollygoheavy at 11:49 AM on October 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
Here's The Daily Show interview:
Barack Obama Pt. 1: President Barack Obama reflects on his sub-par first debate performance and makes a case for having earned a second term.
Barack Obama Pt. 2: President Barack Obama admits that Joe Biden looks pretty good in a bathing suit and explains the continuation of Bush-era wiretapping practices.
What issue Jon Stewart finds sexy
posted by homunculus at 11:54 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Barack Obama Pt. 1: President Barack Obama reflects on his sub-par first debate performance and makes a case for having earned a second term.
Barack Obama Pt. 2: President Barack Obama admits that Joe Biden looks pretty good in a bathing suit and explains the continuation of Bush-era wiretapping practices.
What issue Jon Stewart finds sexy
posted by homunculus at 11:54 AM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Exactly right.
or if they decide they want to be missionaries
So in other words, if they decide to be missionaries, they won't have to live like the other missionaries who are presumably getting by without $100 million in a backup fund.
posted by mikepop at 11:55 AM on October 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
or if they decide they want to be missionaries
So in other words, if they decide to be missionaries, they won't have to live like the other missionaries who are presumably getting by without $100 million in a backup fund.
posted by mikepop at 11:55 AM on October 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
Karl Rove unleashes the swiftboats - Karl Rove's new ads seek to destroy Obama the same way he gutted John Kerry: Exploiting fears he's weak on terror
posted by homunculus at 11:56 AM on October 19, 2012
posted by homunculus at 11:56 AM on October 19, 2012
I watched the video like an hour ago and I had already read the transcript where he said "Romnesia" when I did. So I liked the line but I absolutely roared when he got to the "Here's the good news!" part, and the crowd was just boisterous at that point. Great video. [YouTube 4:43] - that second hilarious part is at 3:10.
I actually just got back from that rally, and it played like gangbusters with us. We could tell he was building up to it, and just like he's been transitioning the "don't boo, vote" line from a lecture to a call-and-response, you could tell he was into the crowd participation. I think most of us saw that line coming, but it still went over well. He even started to chuckle a bit, and I don't care if it's an affection or not, the man has an infectious laugh/giggle. In fact, the entire speech he sounded really energized, less Professor Obama and more Preacher Obama, which also played really well. He's certainly got Northern Virginia fired up and ready to go.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:56 AM on October 19, 2012 [7 favorites]
I actually just got back from that rally, and it played like gangbusters with us. We could tell he was building up to it, and just like he's been transitioning the "don't boo, vote" line from a lecture to a call-and-response, you could tell he was into the crowd participation. I think most of us saw that line coming, but it still went over well. He even started to chuckle a bit, and I don't care if it's an affection or not, the man has an infectious laugh/giggle. In fact, the entire speech he sounded really energized, less Professor Obama and more Preacher Obama, which also played really well. He's certainly got Northern Virginia fired up and ready to go.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:56 AM on October 19, 2012 [7 favorites]
He wanted to send the message that Romneys don’t join the leisure class.
On one hand I can appreciate this sentiment, you want to raise kids that know the value of earning their own way. On the other hand it does pretty much ignore the extraordinary privilege they already have even without having a couple of million dollars available to them on tap instead of locked away in a trust fund.
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:56 AM on October 19, 2012
On one hand I can appreciate this sentiment, you want to raise kids that know the value of earning their own way. On the other hand it does pretty much ignore the extraordinary privilege they already have even without having a couple of million dollars available to them on tap instead of locked away in a trust fund.
posted by TwoWordReview at 11:56 AM on October 19, 2012
I'm sorry, is there anyone alive who still listens to what Karl Rove says?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:11 PM on October 19, 2012
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:11 PM on October 19, 2012
That "partisan mind" piece isn't very good. It resonated poorly for good reasons - not because, as the author suggests, women just don't know what they want.
The Romney Family piece is interesting. There's a strain of father-hero-worship that runs through the family. I read something similar about Mitt's adulation for George.
Miko, I agree with you completely. And hollygoheavy that was the exact paragraph that I was going to highlight. $100 million trust fund! But Mitt has control! For his 40 something year old boys! Yikes. Do you think that possibly when they turn 65 they get to have the trust fund money, no questions asked? Or will Daddy Bucks still hold the strings?
That whole piece is absolutely fascinating. From the last page:
I'm sure Tagg is just working himself to the bone, slaving over his lap top, and wearing himself out schmoozing. Unlike say a guy who works nights as a janitor and days as convenience store clerk but still only brings home $30,000 a year. Tagg is a HARD worker as evidenced by the millions he makes.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:13 PM on October 19, 2012 [12 favorites]
The Romney Family piece is interesting. There's a strain of father-hero-worship that runs through the family. I read something similar about Mitt's adulation for George.
Miko, I agree with you completely. And hollygoheavy that was the exact paragraph that I was going to highlight. $100 million trust fund! But Mitt has control! For his 40 something year old boys! Yikes. Do you think that possibly when they turn 65 they get to have the trust fund money, no questions asked? Or will Daddy Bucks still hold the strings?
That whole piece is absolutely fascinating. From the last page:
As it happens, most of the game is simply getting in the door. Once that’s accomplished, it’s a pretty foolproof way of earning millions of dollars each year: [Tagg's private equity firm,] Solamere collects money from wealthy investors, pools it together, and places it in a group of brand-name funds, like Bain and Kohlberg Kravis Roberts.[my bold]
GIVEN THAT Tagg and his father place so much stock in making their own way, you might think this paths to success would be a source of mild embarrassment, or at least sheepishness. This is not the case. “There are lots of people out there with connections having similar meetings, but we’re able to close the deal because we built a pretty good model,” Tagg says. A close friend puts it this way: “Tagg is too self-aware and too honest to not admit that there’s been some benefits professionally from his dad’s fund-raising network.” But this friend insists Tagg would be successful no matter what: “With or without that pedigree, Tagg works hard.”
I'm sure Tagg is just working himself to the bone, slaving over his lap top, and wearing himself out schmoozing. Unlike say a guy who works nights as a janitor and days as convenience store clerk but still only brings home $30,000 a year. Tagg is a HARD worker as evidenced by the millions he makes.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:13 PM on October 19, 2012 [12 favorites]
roomthreeseventeen: "I'm sorry, is there anyone alive who still listens to what Karl Rove says?"
American Crossroads (Rove's SuperPAC) and Crossroads GPS (his 501c4 "dark money" PAC) were ranked third and fourth on campaign spending by outside groups in 2010. While the effect of his own words might only be felt on Fox News and in Drudge headlines, I am certain his political ads are moving opinion in races all over the US as we speak.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:17 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
American Crossroads (Rove's SuperPAC) and Crossroads GPS (his 501c4 "dark money" PAC) were ranked third and fourth on campaign spending by outside groups in 2010. While the effect of his own words might only be felt on Fox News and in Drudge headlines, I am certain his political ads are moving opinion in races all over the US as we speak.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:17 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
In general the folks who bitch about the lazy poor people the most are also the ones making sure their kids are well and truly taken care of.
As an aside, as much as a complete evil fuckup of a president as Bush Jr was, I've been pretty impressed by the lives his daughters have carved out for themselves. They certainly have been more adventiours, and arguably lived a more social responsible lives then Chelsea has todate
posted by edgeways at 12:21 PM on October 19, 2012
As an aside, as much as a complete evil fuckup of a president as Bush Jr was, I've been pretty impressed by the lives his daughters have carved out for themselves. They certainly have been more adventiours, and arguably lived a more social responsible lives then Chelsea has todate
posted by edgeways at 12:21 PM on October 19, 2012
Karl Rove unleashes the swiftboats...It is artfully edited to omit the fact that moderator Candy Crowley stopped Romney in midstream during the debate and confirmed that President Obama did in fact use the phrase “act of terror” in a speech on September 12, the day after the tragedy.
This seems like an idiotic, high-risk/low-benefit strategy. It can only work on people who didn't watch the debate and aren't aware of the Crowley correction (The Crowley Correction, good name for an occult detective story?). Obviously there ARE such people, but how likely are they to vote, and vote based upon the misrepresentation, and how does this possibility stack up against those who will be repelled by the obvious doubling down on an exposed lie?
posted by howfar at 12:27 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
This seems like an idiotic, high-risk/low-benefit strategy. It can only work on people who didn't watch the debate and aren't aware of the Crowley correction (The Crowley Correction, good name for an occult detective story?). Obviously there ARE such people, but how likely are they to vote, and vote based upon the misrepresentation, and how does this possibility stack up against those who will be repelled by the obvious doubling down on an exposed lie?
posted by howfar at 12:27 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
I actually just got back from that rally, and it played like gangbusters with us.
So jealous! stupidsexyzombieflanders! What was it like? Were there a bunch of vendors selling buttons and shirts and hats and stuff? How was the crowd before and after? I haven't been able to get to a rally in years. Feel free to just go on and on so I can live vicariously through you.
posted by cashman at 12:30 PM on October 19, 2012
So jealous! stupidsexyzombieflanders! What was it like? Were there a bunch of vendors selling buttons and shirts and hats and stuff? How was the crowd before and after? I haven't been able to get to a rally in years. Feel free to just go on and on so I can live vicariously through you.
posted by cashman at 12:30 PM on October 19, 2012
Ugh. Texas cuts off nose to spite face. The Texas Health and Human Services department on Thursday adopted rules that will end federal funding to their Women’s Health Program, denying thousands of low-income women medical care.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:38 PM on October 19, 2012 [9 favorites]
The rules require Texas’s HHS to stop giving funding to any organization considered an “abortion affiliate” — a loose definition for groups that tell women where they can get an abortion, provide informational material about abortion, or otherwise are related to an abortion provider in any way. In adopting these rules, the Texas HHS has forfeited federal funding for the clinics that provide essential health services to low-income women in the state, since that money is dedicated with the caveat that the funds cannot be selectively applied. Although Texas lawmakers are employing a tactic primarily intended to cut off funds to Planned Parenthood, the decision is having far-reaching effects in the state.Gee, Ryan, why don't you tell me more about why the Republican War on Women is all in my mind.
Already, women’s health clinics in Texas are feeling the crunch of the new regulations. Clinics are being forced to provide less effective forms of birth control, increasing the chances that the low-income women who will rely on their care will get pregnant. And the funding cuts have forced at least fifty clinics that are unaffiliated with Planned Parenthood to close their doors.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:38 PM on October 19, 2012 [9 favorites]
"A campaign worker linked to a controversial Republican consulting firm has been arrested in Virginia and charged with throwing voter registration forms into a dumpster."
posted by ericb at 12:56 PM on October 19, 2012
posted by ericb at 12:56 PM on October 19, 2012
More musings on Bindergate: If Republicans ever want to win the women vote, they really need to stop talking about women. They are just terrible at it.
1. Doesn't address the question about unequal pay
2. Lets us know he didn't know any women he could appoint-- not a single woman
3. Makes it sound like he had to look under every rock and stone to find any qualified women
4. Blathers on about flex time for lay-deees-- because getting home to feed the hubby and kids is our biggest concern
5. Binders! Full! of! Women! Once again, we are reduced to being objects. Interchangeable. Notable only by virtue of our sex. He didn't bother to name any names because woman as individuals were not the point. The point is that he, Romney, actually appointed some people with vaginas to cabinet positions and he got their names out of a binder. Nuff said.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:59 PM on October 19, 2012 [15 favorites]
Despite what Romney suggests, the truth is that flextime isn’t really an issue for executives. Most higher paying positions are salaried, and as such are judged upon a specifically defined set of outcome criteria. They don’t need flextime, because flextime is basically built into their job. The kinds of positions that often require flextime are lower paying jobs such as administrative assistants, file clerks, receptionists and data input typists. So when answering a question about general female economic inequality in the workplace, Mitt inexplicably responded with an answer about administrative assistants, file clerks, receptionists and data input typists. Now, it is true that not everyone is keenly aware of who does and doesn’t need flextime. But you know what subset of voters is keenly aware of this? Women.What astounds me is all the Republican men who think that we are blowing up Bindergate all out of proportion. His whole answer to the question of inequality in the workplace is so tone deaf it is downright bizarre, and surprising in a Presidential candidate in 2012.
1. Doesn't address the question about unequal pay
2. Lets us know he didn't know any women he could appoint-- not a single woman
3. Makes it sound like he had to look under every rock and stone to find any qualified women
4. Blathers on about flex time for lay-deees-- because getting home to feed the hubby and kids is our biggest concern
5. Binders! Full! of! Women! Once again, we are reduced to being objects. Interchangeable. Notable only by virtue of our sex. He didn't bother to name any names because woman as individuals were not the point. The point is that he, Romney, actually appointed some people with vaginas to cabinet positions and he got their names out of a binder. Nuff said.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:59 PM on October 19, 2012 [15 favorites]
Romney's new ad targets women voters yt
I'd like to comment on this ad, but the degree of disingenuousness isn't helping at all.
posted by ersatz at 1:08 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'd like to comment on this ad, but the degree of disingenuousness isn't helping at all.
posted by ersatz at 1:08 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ann Romney: Mitt’s mission in Paris mansion was similar to Vietnam.
posted by ericb at 1:09 PM on October 19, 2012
posted by ericb at 1:09 PM on October 19, 2012
Mitt Romney's French Mormon Mission Deepened His Faith In Jesus, Kept Him From Vietnam Draft.
posted by ericb at 1:10 PM on October 19, 2012
posted by ericb at 1:10 PM on October 19, 2012
Mitt Romney's Life As A Poor Mormon Missionary In France Questioned -- "Much of Mitt Romney’s life as a Mormon missionary in France was not as poor or arduous as he has claimed, say those who knew him at the time."
posted by ericb at 1:11 PM on October 19, 2012
posted by ericb at 1:11 PM on October 19, 2012
Billy Graham takes out full page ad in the Wall Street Journal:
"The legacy we leave behind for our children, grandchildren, and this great nation is crucial. As I approach my 94th birthday, I realize this election could be my last. I believe it is vitally important that we cast our ballots for candidates who base their decisions on biblical principles and support the nation of Israel. I urge you to vote for those who protect the biblical definition of marriage between a man and a woman. Vote for biblical values this November 6, and pray with me that America will remain one nation under God."posted by ericb at 1:14 PM on October 19, 2012
6. Lied about asking for the binders; before he was elected the Massachusetts Government Appointments Project asked both major-party gubernatorial candidates to pledge to hire more women in government.
7. Couldn't provide any examples of hiring women during his private-sector career.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:14 PM on October 19, 2012 [9 favorites]
7. Couldn't provide any examples of hiring women during his private-sector career.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:14 PM on October 19, 2012 [9 favorites]
[Humor is] something nearly all conservatives seem to be terrible at. One exception I can think of is Bob Dole
Bob Dole was famous for his wit, and wrote most of his own jokes. EG "After I lost the election I slept like a baby -- I woke up every two hours and cried." Not bad for a guy crippled at 18 by a bunch of Nazi bullets.
Romney's timing
Timing is all about practice, and repetitions. Romney's been running for president full time for 10 years. Say what you want about him, he's had tons of stage time.
posted by msalt at 1:31 PM on October 19, 2012 [5 favorites]
Bob Dole was famous for his wit, and wrote most of his own jokes. EG "After I lost the election I slept like a baby -- I woke up every two hours and cried." Not bad for a guy crippled at 18 by a bunch of Nazi bullets.
Romney's timing
Timing is all about practice, and repetitions. Romney's been running for president full time for 10 years. Say what you want about him, he's had tons of stage time.
posted by msalt at 1:31 PM on October 19, 2012 [5 favorites]
"After I lost the election I slept like a baby -- I woke up every two hours and cried."
If he wrote that joke it can't have been Nazi bullets that crippled him at the age of 18. Maybe musket fire at Waterloo?
posted by howfar at 1:37 PM on October 19, 2012
If he wrote that joke it can't have been Nazi bullets that crippled him at the age of 18. Maybe musket fire at Waterloo?
posted by howfar at 1:37 PM on October 19, 2012
pray with me that America will remain one nation under God.
two responses to that:
1 - It's wayyyy too late. America hasn't been one nation under god for awhile, despite what the money says* Billy boy, and only your bubble of ignorance and fear lets you believe it.
2 - I'm tired of missionary deity sex, can we be on top for awhile?
*Who in the hell thought it was biblical (money is the root of evil) good sense to put "god" on currency anyways? sheesh
posted by edgeways at 1:42 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
two responses to that:
1 - It's wayyyy too late. America hasn't been one nation under god for awhile, despite what the money says* Billy boy, and only your bubble of ignorance and fear lets you believe it.
2 - I'm tired of missionary deity sex, can we be on top for awhile?
*Who in the hell thought it was biblical (money is the root of evil) good sense to put "god" on currency anyways? sheesh
posted by edgeways at 1:42 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney's new ad targets women voters yt
There's this sort of blank-eyed stare inherent in the notion that one could trust Romney to hold a certain position on anything.
Was on SEPTA yesterday and two well-dressed white people, working in Center City and living in the suburbs types, were complaining about etiquette on SEPTA. One was all 'did you hear that a woman gave birth on SEPTA' and then the two agreed that a very pregnant woman had no place riding SEPTA and it was a dumb move on her part. The underlying assumption was that said pregnant woman had other options and how rude is it to subject others to your afterbirth and fluids and what not.
Anyways, I'm totally eavesdropping on these strange yet apparently not uncommon type of folk, and one guy was worried he didn't have the proper Voter ID.
So I pipe up and say, 'They'll ask you for your ID but you don't have to produce it, according to the court decision as I understand it.'
The woman is all, do you know blah blah about blah address change registration. I'm like, uh, no. She's all, 'o you seemed like a voter ID expert.' As if the court ruling hadn't been plastered all over the news, for Christ's sake.
Maybe she sensed my haterness, because she turned to the guy and said 'o I'm sure that this law wasn't pass to make it harder to vote.' This is after the douche state legislator who introduced the law is on record saying the new law will give Romney PA. This is all over the news too. and I can't help it my eyes are rolling so hard I feel pressure on the back of my sockets and my mouth is twitching.
tldr: It's pretty amazing what people are willing to swallow in terms of empty promises. Especially if they are low information voters, especially if their world seems to be eroding and they fear they might be one of those awful people who has the gall to give birth on the subway.
posted by angrycat at 1:43 PM on October 19, 2012 [5 favorites]
There's this sort of blank-eyed stare inherent in the notion that one could trust Romney to hold a certain position on anything.
Was on SEPTA yesterday and two well-dressed white people, working in Center City and living in the suburbs types, were complaining about etiquette on SEPTA. One was all 'did you hear that a woman gave birth on SEPTA' and then the two agreed that a very pregnant woman had no place riding SEPTA and it was a dumb move on her part. The underlying assumption was that said pregnant woman had other options and how rude is it to subject others to your afterbirth and fluids and what not.
Anyways, I'm totally eavesdropping on these strange yet apparently not uncommon type of folk, and one guy was worried he didn't have the proper Voter ID.
So I pipe up and say, 'They'll ask you for your ID but you don't have to produce it, according to the court decision as I understand it.'
The woman is all, do you know blah blah about blah address change registration. I'm like, uh, no. She's all, 'o you seemed like a voter ID expert.' As if the court ruling hadn't been plastered all over the news, for Christ's sake.
Maybe she sensed my haterness, because she turned to the guy and said 'o I'm sure that this law wasn't pass to make it harder to vote.' This is after the douche state legislator who introduced the law is on record saying the new law will give Romney PA. This is all over the news too. and I can't help it my eyes are rolling so hard I feel pressure on the back of my sockets and my mouth is twitching.
tldr: It's pretty amazing what people are willing to swallow in terms of empty promises. Especially if they are low information voters, especially if their world seems to be eroding and they fear they might be one of those awful people who has the gall to give birth on the subway.
posted by angrycat at 1:43 PM on October 19, 2012 [5 favorites]
Romney's new ad targets women voters
The Obama campaign responds to Mitt Romney's flat-out lie in his new ad that he has never supported banning all abortions with a new ad entitled "Seen," which includes video of Mittens Romney saying he would be "delighted to sign" a bill outlawing all abortion. Romney acts like he has never heard of those newfangled inventions like sound recordings and moving picture film and the "tee-vee" and the Internet.posted by ericb at 1:50 PM on October 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
Description:Voiceover:
"Seen this from Mitt Romney? Then take a look at this:"
Anderson Cooper:
"If Roe v. Wade was overturned, Congress passed a federal ban on all abortions, and it came to your desk -- would you sign it? 'Yes', or 'no?'"
Mitt Romney:
"Let me say it: I'd be delighted to sign that bill."
Voiceover:
"Banning all abortions?"
Mitt Romney:
"I'd be delighted to sign that bill."
Voiceover:
"Trying to mislead us? That's wrong. But ban all abortions? Only...if you vote for him."*
Salt Lake Tribune: Too Many Mitts
Politicians routinely tailor their words to suit an audience. Romney, though, is shameless, lavishing vastly diverse audiences with words, any words, they would trade their votes to hear.posted by edgeways at 1:57 PM on October 19, 2012 [8 favorites]
My hopes for Obama's second term is that he goes after the things that would have been political suicide in his first term. It's tough for a Democrat to scale back on security. In fact it's very difficult for them to touch the issue at all. But Mr. Obama please take care of some things then head right into that dilithium intermix chamber.
Maybe Romney's joke above shows that even Mittens senses the pure Kirk/Spock nature of the Clinton/Obama pairing.
posted by fleacircus at 2:00 PM on October 19, 2012
Maybe Romney's joke above shows that even Mittens senses the pure Kirk/Spock nature of the Clinton/Obama pairing.
posted by fleacircus at 2:00 PM on October 19, 2012
Andy Borowitz: "I worry that women won't get home in time to make dinner if Republicans are giving them mandatory transvaginal ultrasounds."
posted by ericb at 2:02 PM on October 19, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by ericb at 2:02 PM on October 19, 2012 [6 favorites]
*Who in the hell thought it was biblical (money is the root of evil) good sense to put "god" on currency anyways? sheesh
"For the love of money is the root of all evil", 1 Timothy 6:11.
It's an important distinction. The "In God we Trust" bit makes sense in terms of the notion of oath-swearing, not taking the name of god in vain (i.e. not making false oaths in his name).
/pedant
posted by howfar at 2:02 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
"For the love of money is the root of all evil", 1 Timothy 6:11.
It's an important distinction. The "In God we Trust" bit makes sense in terms of the notion of oath-swearing, not taking the name of god in vain (i.e. not making false oaths in his name).
/pedant
posted by howfar at 2:02 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Scarlett Johansson, Eva Longoria & Kerry Washington Hit Mitt Romney On Women's Issues In New TV Ad.
posted by ericb at 2:03 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ericb at 2:03 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
The "In God we Trust" bit makes sense in terms of the notion of oath-swearing ...
BTW -- "In God we trust" is a fairly recent (20th. century) phrase. It was adopted as the official motto of the United States in 1956 as an alternative or replacement to the unofficial motto of E pluribus unum, adopted when the Great Seal of the United States was created and adopted in 1782.
/pedant
posted by ericb at 2:07 PM on October 19, 2012 [5 favorites]
BTW -- "In God we trust" is a fairly recent (20th. century) phrase. It was adopted as the official motto of the United States in 1956 as an alternative or replacement to the unofficial motto of E pluribus unum, adopted when the Great Seal of the United States was created and adopted in 1782.
/pedant
posted by ericb at 2:07 PM on October 19, 2012 [5 favorites]
Yeah, it's obviously not Biblical, but at least it kinda makes sense as something to put on money. The weird thing about religious mottoes on US money is less the money part and more the religion part.
And let us be honest ericb, neither of us can /pedant.
posted by howfar at 2:11 PM on October 19, 2012
And let us be honest ericb, neither of us can /pedant.
posted by howfar at 2:11 PM on October 19, 2012
Yeah -- the insertion of religious terminology in a republic which was founded on the separation of church and state has been a 'modern' move.
For example, The Pledge of Allegiance (written here in Boston by Rev. Francis Bellamy in 1892 and officially adopted by Congress in 1942) didn't invoke 'God' until 1942 when it was amended to include the words "under God."
posted by ericb at 2:25 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
For example, The Pledge of Allegiance (written here in Boston by Rev. Francis Bellamy in 1892 and officially adopted by Congress in 1942) didn't invoke 'God' until 1942 when it was amended to include the words "under God."
posted by ericb at 2:25 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Oh man, the shit is really hitting the fan now, isn't it.
Doing a Mormon mission in a place like Paris – where Mitt lived in a mansion (with his own own butler and houseboy who prepared all the meals); a mansion so posh that it went on to become a foreign embassy – is a similar “service to our country” as those who fought and risked their lives, and died, in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan.
I sure wish I could sit him down in conversation with my dad, whose "service to our country"came with jungle camo and a lot of mosquito spray, not a clip-on tie.
posted by Miko at 2:30 PM on October 19, 2012 [7 favorites]
Doing a Mormon mission in a place like Paris – where Mitt lived in a mansion (with his own own butler and houseboy who prepared all the meals); a mansion so posh that it went on to become a foreign embassy – is a similar “service to our country” as those who fought and risked their lives, and died, in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan.
I sure wish I could sit him down in conversation with my dad, whose "service to our country"came with jungle camo and a lot of mosquito spray, not a clip-on tie.
posted by Miko at 2:30 PM on October 19, 2012 [7 favorites]
Oh man, the shit is really hitting the fan now, isn't it.
Is it though? Romney still seems to be popular with a segment of the population.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:33 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
Is it though? Romney still seems to be popular with a segment of the population.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:33 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
Alyssa Rosenberg: What Obama And Romney’s Al Smith Dinner Speeches Tell Us About The Election
posted by tonycpsu at 2:37 PM on October 19, 2012
posted by tonycpsu at 2:37 PM on October 19, 2012
Yeah, it's obviously not Biblical, but at least it kinda makes sense as something to put on money.
Matthew 22:
17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?posted by kirkaracha at 2:39 PM on October 19, 2012 [3 favorites]
18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?
19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Billy Graham: ""The legacy we leave behind for our children, grandchildren, and this great nation is crucial. As I approach my 94th birthday, I realize this election could be my last. I believe it is vitally important that we cast our ballots for candidates who base their decisions on biblical principles and support the nation of Israel. I urge you to vote for those who protect the biblical definition of marriage between a man and a woman. Vote for biblical values this November 6, and pray with me that America will remain one nation under God.""
Biblical principles of the Gospels? "Love thy neighbor"? Nah, just stuff from the OT, and Paul the Usurper.
Fuck you, old man. If I prayed, it would for you and your allies to be driven before me, lamenting.
posted by notsnot at 2:43 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
Biblical principles of the Gospels? "Love thy neighbor"? Nah, just stuff from the OT, and Paul the Usurper.
Fuck you, old man. If I prayed, it would for you and your allies to be driven before me, lamenting.
posted by notsnot at 2:43 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
“With modern technology and science, you can't find one instance. There is no such exception as life of the mother, and as far as health of the mother, same thing.” - Rep. Joe Walsh, Illinois.
GOP congressman admits Paul Ryan, GOP will “end” Medicare
posted by homunculus at 2:53 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
GOP congressman admits Paul Ryan, GOP will “end” Medicare
posted by homunculus at 2:53 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
"As I approach my 94th birthday, I realize this election could be my last." - Billy Graham
I'm suddenly feeling optimistic about the future.
posted by brundlefly at 2:54 PM on October 19, 2012 [10 favorites]
I'm suddenly feeling optimistic about the future.
posted by brundlefly at 2:54 PM on October 19, 2012 [10 favorites]
Alyssa Rosenberg: What Obama And Romney’s Al Smith Dinner Speeches Tell Us About The Election
posted by Room 641-A at 2:55 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
He explained that though the campaign season felt endless, “Paul Ryan assured me we’ve only been running for two hours and 57 minutes.”I missed this one; I'd love to have seen Ryan's reaction.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:55 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
I think Obama is going to win.
posted by rainy at 2:59 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by rainy at 2:59 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
yikes, edgeways ... thanks for the link to Tribune Endorsement: Too Many Mitts.
"Sadly, it is not the only Romney, as his campaign for the White House has made abundantly clear, first in his servile courtship of the tea party in order to win the nomination, and now as the party’s shape-shifting nominee. From his embrace of the party’s radical right wing, to subsequent portrayals of himself as a moderate champion of the middle class, Romney has raised the most frequently asked question of the campaign: "Who is this guy, really, and what in the world does he truly believe?"
Apparently, even those who had close encounters with the man - like the state of Massachusetts and Olympic hosts in Utah -- can't really trust him. Maybe I am just forgetting but I can't think of another presidential candidate so willing to sell his soul to the devil just to get elected.
posted by madamjujujive at 3:00 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
"Sadly, it is not the only Romney, as his campaign for the White House has made abundantly clear, first in his servile courtship of the tea party in order to win the nomination, and now as the party’s shape-shifting nominee. From his embrace of the party’s radical right wing, to subsequent portrayals of himself as a moderate champion of the middle class, Romney has raised the most frequently asked question of the campaign: "Who is this guy, really, and what in the world does he truly believe?"
Apparently, even those who had close encounters with the man - like the state of Massachusetts and Olympic hosts in Utah -- can't really trust him. Maybe I am just forgetting but I can't think of another presidential candidate so willing to sell his soul to the devil just to get elected.
posted by madamjujujive at 3:00 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
"A campaign worker linked to a controversial Republican consulting firm has been arrested in Virginia and charged with throwing voter registration forms into a dumpster."
GOP voter registration scandal widens: A Virginia official is busted for tossing voter forms. Turns out he works for the national party, too
posted by homunculus at 3:04 PM on October 19, 2012 [8 favorites]
GOP voter registration scandal widens: A Virginia official is busted for tossing voter forms. Turns out he works for the national party, too
posted by homunculus at 3:04 PM on October 19, 2012 [8 favorites]
Is it though? Romney still seems to be popular with a segment of the population.
What I mean is that it's getting a lot nastier.
posted by Miko at 3:07 PM on October 19, 2012
What I mean is that it's getting a lot nastier.
posted by Miko at 3:07 PM on October 19, 2012
octothorpe: Five Thirty Eight has Obama up to a 70% chance of winning now. I feel a little better now. Of course, I still don't understand why this isn't a blow out election for Obama but there are things that I'll just never get.
A relative recently asked me, after I got a bit angry about her support for Romney, "just give him a chance." Sure, that kind of rang as a phrase from her (she's kind and supportive of others at the cost of her own small comforts, making sure you don't do anything for her that could be any sort of inconvenience for you), but sounded so removed from the reality of the presidential election. It sounded a bit like "Mitt's not all that bad, vote for him this time and see what happens." And there's some weird level of hate and/or disgust for Obama that I don't remember seeing before. Were there "Worst President Ever" stickers around for Bush II? Or Clinton? Asked to describe why they don't like Obama, and the answers are hazy at best. There's some discomfort with him, either absorbed from conservative talking points reiterated as fact on the news, or Fox News and co, or some other dislike for Democrats as I have dislike for Republicans at large.
peeedro: After a week they will drop it and the new story will be that they are trying to run a campaign on the issues while the president is name-calling.
A week? Following Ryan's "War on Women" comment from yesterday (Thursday), the political director for Romney's campaign said on Thursday night:
posted by filthy light thief at 3:12 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
A relative recently asked me, after I got a bit angry about her support for Romney, "just give him a chance." Sure, that kind of rang as a phrase from her (she's kind and supportive of others at the cost of her own small comforts, making sure you don't do anything for her that could be any sort of inconvenience for you), but sounded so removed from the reality of the presidential election. It sounded a bit like "Mitt's not all that bad, vote for him this time and see what happens." And there's some weird level of hate and/or disgust for Obama that I don't remember seeing before. Were there "Worst President Ever" stickers around for Bush II? Or Clinton? Asked to describe why they don't like Obama, and the answers are hazy at best. There's some discomfort with him, either absorbed from conservative talking points reiterated as fact on the news, or Fox News and co, or some other dislike for Democrats as I have dislike for Republicans at large.
peeedro: After a week they will drop it and the new story will be that they are trying to run a campaign on the issues while the president is name-calling.
A week? Following Ryan's "War on Women" comment from yesterday (Thursday), the political director for Romney's campaign said on Thursday night:
They don't have an issue to run on, they dont have an agenda for the next term, so they want to talk about the small things and distract America from the important things of restoring and strengthening the middle class and putting America back to work.The same sort of thing came out after the Big Bird follow-ups: Obama is focusing on the small stuff, instead of providing plans for his 2nd term. But at the same time, they weren't too slow to put together another use of Sesame Street property: The Campaign Count (RNC press release).
posted by filthy light thief at 3:12 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
"just give him a chance."
You might want to send her this: Massachusetts mayors criticize Romney record
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:19 PM on October 19, 2012 [8 favorites]
You might want to send her this: Massachusetts mayors criticize Romney record
“I had to close two of my five elementary schools. Two of my three fire stations,” Dolan said, noting that in Massachusetts, as in Virginia, funds from the state help finance key local public services because property taxes don’t generate enough.The electorate of Massachusetts gave him a chance and they ended up being very sorry.
“I had to lay of 20 percent of city staff.”
Those were good, middle-class jobs, he added. It’s one reason why he finds some of the campaign rhetoric in the presidential race galling.
The other reason:
“For two of his four years, he just wasn’t there,” Dolan said. He said halfway through Romney’s single 2003-2007 term as governor of Massachusetts, he was already campaigning for the GOP nod for the 2008 presidential race.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:19 PM on October 19, 2012 [8 favorites]
GOP voter registration scandal widens: A Virginia official is busted for tossing voter forms. Turns out he works for the national party, too.
I may run out of blockquote tags before this election is over.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:20 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Joseph Tanfani at the Los Angeles Times is reporting that Small was “working as a supervisor as part of a registration operation in eight swing states financed by the Republican National Committee.”Thanks for the update, homunculus
I may run out of blockquote tags before this election is over.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:20 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Were there "Worst President Ever" stickers around for Bush II?
Well there were in my house. My deepest hope is that Bush can retain that title for eons into the future, but I fear that Romney could give him a run for our money.
posted by madamjujujive at 3:20 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
Well there were in my house. My deepest hope is that Bush can retain that title for eons into the future, but I fear that Romney could give him a run for our money.
posted by madamjujujive at 3:20 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
Voter Intimidation Fears Renewed As Election Day Nears
"We are concerned with non-professional, self-appointed poll watchers and the kind of environment that will be created when non-professionals are questioning the eligibility of other voters," said Myrna Perez, Senior Counsel for the Brennan Center.
posted by Golden Eternity at 3:20 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
"We are concerned with non-professional, self-appointed poll watchers and the kind of environment that will be created when non-professionals are questioning the eligibility of other voters," said Myrna Perez, Senior Counsel for the Brennan Center.
posted by Golden Eternity at 3:20 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
From the Salon link:
Colin Small, according to his LinkedIn profile, as captured by the NotLarrySaboto blog (which was the first to highlight the initial report of a man with PA license plates tossing a bag of Virginia Voter Registration Forms into a Harrisonburg dumpster), wasn’t only working for the state GOP or for Strategic Allied Consulting or for PinPoint. He was working as a “Grassroots Field Director at the Republican National Committee,” according to LinkedIn.
[Update: NBC News is reporting this morning that RNC Communications Director denies Small was "directly employed by the RNC" and that he will be "told to take down that." Small is currently in jail and unable to respond to clear up the question, however.]
I'm sure he'll get right on that as soon as the GOP posts bail for him.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:22 PM on October 19, 2012
Colin Small, according to his LinkedIn profile, as captured by the NotLarrySaboto blog (which was the first to highlight the initial report of a man with PA license plates tossing a bag of Virginia Voter Registration Forms into a Harrisonburg dumpster), wasn’t only working for the state GOP or for Strategic Allied Consulting or for PinPoint. He was working as a “Grassroots Field Director at the Republican National Committee,” according to LinkedIn.
[Update: NBC News is reporting this morning that RNC Communications Director denies Small was "directly employed by the RNC" and that he will be "told to take down that." Small is currently in jail and unable to respond to clear up the question, however.]
I'm sure he'll get right on that as soon as the GOP posts bail for him.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:22 PM on October 19, 2012
The plot thickens in the Virginia voter registration scandal:
posted by headnsouth at 3:22 PM on October 19, 2012 [6 favorites]
Ironically, or perhaps not at this point, Romney, who hired Sproul late last year as a “political consultant” for some $71,000, appears to have committed both voter registration fraud and voter fraud himself in Massachusetts, when he voted in the January 2010 U.S. Senate Special Election between Scott Brown and Martha Coakley. While he owned houses in both California and New Hampshire at the time, he did not own a Massachusetts home until July of that year. Instead, he used the basement of his son’s Belmont, Mass., home as his own registration address in apparent contravention of Massachusetts state residency laws. [See our still-growing list of other very high-profile GOPers recently involved in apparent election fraud crimes.]This is all very Bob Roberts and that article reads like a breathless report by Bugs Raplin ... but it's stomach-turning to realize that this is really happening. In the U.S., in 2012, in a not-terribly-provincial college town like Harrisonburg ... and all the while accusing the other side of voter fraud! It's just so disheartening. Follow the money, that's always going to be the answer whenever awful shit goes down. Follow the money.
posted by headnsouth at 3:22 PM on October 19, 2012 [6 favorites]
Were there "Worst President Ever" stickers around for Bush II?
Should have been. He was, clearly. (Maybe Andrew Johnson? I'm no historian.)
posted by msalt at 3:25 PM on October 19, 2012
Should have been. He was, clearly. (Maybe Andrew Johnson? I'm no historian.)
posted by msalt at 3:25 PM on October 19, 2012
homunculus: GOP voter registration scandal widens: A Virginia official is busted for tossing voter forms. Turns out he works for the national party, too
And he's a supervisor for registration efforts in 8 swing states? This shit is why I find the Republican party on the whole despicable. Sure, this guy is just a GOP employee, but you kind of think they'd push to prevent really terrible, anti-democractic actions like this. This isn't the first allegation of voter registration tampering, either. Then there's stupid shit like Swiftboat, whisper campaigns, and the ACORN controversy. None of it is done above-board, but sneaky ways that are illegal or underhanded.
Are you really so angry and scared of The Other Guys that you won't spend more time promoting what you believe in and your plans for the future, and instead try to tarnish their reputations or minimize their role in the democratic process that the US holds as the standard for the world to copy? And the world is watching, which is even worse. Bickering and partisan rhetoric, I understand. But the shadow-world of twisting words and outright cheating sickens me.
Hell, Larry Flint's million dollar rewards for Romney's tax records and general infidelity, sexual impropriety or corruption concerning current United States senators, congresspersons or prominent government officials are more palatable. He's playing the role of a well-publicized muckraker, not spreader of lies and misleading gossip, or trying to distort reality and preventing people from voting.
posted by filthy light thief at 3:29 PM on October 19, 2012 [7 favorites]
And he's a supervisor for registration efforts in 8 swing states? This shit is why I find the Republican party on the whole despicable. Sure, this guy is just a GOP employee, but you kind of think they'd push to prevent really terrible, anti-democractic actions like this. This isn't the first allegation of voter registration tampering, either. Then there's stupid shit like Swiftboat, whisper campaigns, and the ACORN controversy. None of it is done above-board, but sneaky ways that are illegal or underhanded.
Are you really so angry and scared of The Other Guys that you won't spend more time promoting what you believe in and your plans for the future, and instead try to tarnish their reputations or minimize their role in the democratic process that the US holds as the standard for the world to copy? And the world is watching, which is even worse. Bickering and partisan rhetoric, I understand. But the shadow-world of twisting words and outright cheating sickens me.
Hell, Larry Flint's million dollar rewards for Romney's tax records and general infidelity, sexual impropriety or corruption concerning current United States senators, congresspersons or prominent government officials are more palatable. He's playing the role of a well-publicized muckraker, not spreader of lies and misleading gossip, or trying to distort reality and preventing people from voting.
posted by filthy light thief at 3:29 PM on October 19, 2012 [7 favorites]
"There's no evidence it was politically motivated in that sense," Mr. Geib, the voter registrar, said in a phone interview. "There's no way to look at the application and see any kind of party affiliation."Hmm. Anyone fancy taking a small bet that all of the people whose forms were disposed of were black or Hispanic?
posted by howfar at 3:34 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Mother Jones: Mormon Feminists Don't Like Romney
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:35 PM on October 19, 2012 [8 favorites]
[Romney said,]"My chief of staff, for instance, had two kids that were still in school." Hickman thought his comments reflected the "church's paternalistic language that casts women ultimately as mothers," according to Reuters. "The emphasis on them (women) being seen as leaders or them being seen as breadwinners is still really missing from our rhetoric," she said.I particularly like the quote from one woman who said that Romney was so far removed from her life he could not begin to imagine how to help. I agree whole-heartedly both as a vagina person and as a middle class person. That man is plumb ignorant and has no ability to imagine anything outside his own lifestyle. Remember when he made that remark about asking your parents for a loan so that you could start your own business? Just as though everybody has wealthy parents and ideas for a start-up and a desire to run a business.
Lisa Butterworth, who runs the blog Feminist Mormon Housewives told Reuters, "I pretty much know every Mormon feminist, and I can't think of any of them that are going to vote for Romney."
Hickman's magazine did a poll of around 100 of its readers this week, and found Obama favored over Romney by 72 to 30.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:35 PM on October 19, 2012 [8 favorites]
... the two agreed that a very pregnant woman had no place riding SEPTA and it was a dumb move on her part. The underlying assumption was that said pregnant woman had other options and how rude is it to subject others to your afterbirth and fluids and what not.
angrycat, you should have reminded them of the Sarah almost-giving-birth-on-the-plane story. Another case of the IOKIYAR.
posted by madamjujujive at 3:45 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
angrycat, you should have reminded them of the Sarah almost-giving-birth-on-the-plane story. Another case of the IOKIYAR.
posted by madamjujujive at 3:45 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
Ann Romney: Mitt’s mission in Paris mansion was similar to Vietnam.
Apparently it was harrowing.
posted by homunculus at 3:57 PM on October 19, 2012
Apparently it was harrowing.
posted by homunculus at 3:57 PM on October 19, 2012
and all the while accusing the other side of voter fraud!
Everything with these fuckers is projection.
[Romney's political director] they want to talk about the small things and distract America from the important things of restoring and strengthening the middle class and putting America back to work.
"Putting" America back to work seems like a revealing phrasing. It probably sounds pretty good to a boss/manager. Lipton's right, Romney just wants to be the ur-businessman.
posted by fleacircus at 3:58 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
Everything with these fuckers is projection.
[Romney's political director] they want to talk about the small things and distract America from the important things of restoring and strengthening the middle class and putting America back to work.
"Putting" America back to work seems like a revealing phrasing. It probably sounds pretty good to a boss/manager. Lipton's right, Romney just wants to be the ur-businessman.
posted by fleacircus at 3:58 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
In a scathing indictment of Romney's "Etch A Sketch" pandering, The Salt Lake Tribune endorses Barack Obama for President.
posted by dirigibleman at 4:11 PM on October 19, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by dirigibleman at 4:11 PM on October 19, 2012 [6 favorites]
From the "Democratic Own Goals" department (which is probably going to have to be expanded to a pull-out feature section at some point):
Arizona Senate Candidate Apologizes For Telling Male Reporter He's 'Prettier' Than Candy Crowley
It looked like this was going to be an awful year on the Senate electoral map for Democrats, but fortune smiled on them with the Todd Akin debacle and some surprisingly strong campaigns in Indiana and Arizona, among others. So then this clown goes out and makes himself look like an ass with an unprovoked attack on Candy Crowley.
I don't know that Carmona was going to eke out a win in the wingnut paradise known as Arizona, but it sure would have been awesome, and I would be shocked if this doesn't hurt him with left-leaning voters.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:16 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Arizona Senate Candidate Apologizes For Telling Male Reporter He's 'Prettier' Than Candy Crowley
It looked like this was going to be an awful year on the Senate electoral map for Democrats, but fortune smiled on them with the Todd Akin debacle and some surprisingly strong campaigns in Indiana and Arizona, among others. So then this clown goes out and makes himself look like an ass with an unprovoked attack on Candy Crowley.
I don't know that Carmona was going to eke out a win in the wingnut paradise known as Arizona, but it sure would have been awesome, and I would be shocked if this doesn't hurt him with left-leaning voters.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:16 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
dirigibleman: "In a scathing indictment of Romney's "Etch A Sketch" pandering, The Salt Lake Tribune endorses Barack Obama for President."
I somehow doubt we'll see that sort of integrity out of the other, Mormon-owned, SLC daily paper.
posted by wierdo at 4:23 PM on October 19, 2012
I somehow doubt we'll see that sort of integrity out of the other, Mormon-owned, SLC daily paper.
posted by wierdo at 4:23 PM on October 19, 2012
I would be shocked if this doesn't hurt him with left-leaning voters.
Really? Just seems like a silly throwaway line to me. Maybe it has something to do with Crowley's looks or Richard Carmona having an opinion about them, but I don't see how you can tell. It's certainly not the smartest thing to say in the context and climate, but I'm pretty "meh" about it. I know I've said "you're prettier than him/her" to people in the past with no real meaning beyond a sort of jokey mock flirtation.
posted by howfar at 4:26 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Really? Just seems like a silly throwaway line to me. Maybe it has something to do with Crowley's looks or Richard Carmona having an opinion about them, but I don't see how you can tell. It's certainly not the smartest thing to say in the context and climate, but I'm pretty "meh" about it. I know I've said "you're prettier than him/her" to people in the past with no real meaning beyond a sort of jokey mock flirtation.
posted by howfar at 4:26 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Does the Romney Family Now Own Your e-Vote?
posted by homunculus at 4:28 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 4:28 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
Willard: [voiceover] Paris...shit; I'm still only in Paris...Every time I think I'm gonna wake up back in the jungle.
Willard: When I was home after my first tour, it was worse.
[grabs at flying insect]
Willard: I'd wake up and there'd be nothing. When I was here, I wanted to be there; when I was there, all I could think of was getting back into the jungle. I'm here a week now...waiting for a mission...getting softer. Every minute I stay in this palace, I get weaker, and every minute Charlie De Gualle squats in the Élysée Palace, he gets stronger. Each time I looked around the walls moved in a little tighter.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:04 PM on October 19, 2012 [6 favorites]
Willard: When I was home after my first tour, it was worse.
[grabs at flying insect]
Willard: I'd wake up and there'd be nothing. When I was here, I wanted to be there; when I was there, all I could think of was getting back into the jungle. I'm here a week now...waiting for a mission...getting softer. Every minute I stay in this palace, I get weaker, and every minute Charlie De Gualle squats in the Élysée Palace, he gets stronger. Each time I looked around the walls moved in a little tighter.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:04 PM on October 19, 2012 [6 favorites]
2012 General Election Editorial Endorsements by Major Newspapers
posted by kirkaracha at 5:05 PM on October 19, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 5:05 PM on October 19, 2012 [4 favorites]
From Kirkaracha's link, re: The Wall Street Journal:
generally does not endorse candidates
So... many... punchlines...
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:28 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
generally does not endorse candidates
So... many... punchlines...
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:28 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
Is Your Boss Going To 'Mine' Your Vote? More Corporations Step Up Coercion
"One of the lesser-known consequences of the Citizens United decision is how corporations gained the power to explicitly recommend candidates to their rank-and-file workers. Before, corporations were limited to mostly encouraging civic participation. Now, managers can make political appeals for a candidate in the workplace.
This November, corporations are testing their new Supreme Court-granted rights for the first time in a presidential election. The coal industry is a good place to observe this shifting landscape.
Since 2004, lobbyists for the coal and mining industry have promoted something called “Mine the Vote,” an effort to organize employees and get them to the polls."
posted by madamjujujive at 5:31 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
"One of the lesser-known consequences of the Citizens United decision is how corporations gained the power to explicitly recommend candidates to their rank-and-file workers. Before, corporations were limited to mostly encouraging civic participation. Now, managers can make political appeals for a candidate in the workplace.
This November, corporations are testing their new Supreme Court-granted rights for the first time in a presidential election. The coal industry is a good place to observe this shifting landscape.
Since 2004, lobbyists for the coal and mining industry have promoted something called “Mine the Vote,” an effort to organize employees and get them to the polls."
posted by madamjujujive at 5:31 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
Congressman and civil rights leader John Lewis encourages people to vote...GANGNAM STYLE!
(If you hate the song, he makes his appearance at :35)
posted by Room 641-A at 5:55 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
(If you hate the song, he makes his appearance at :35)
posted by Room 641-A at 5:55 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
Fox creates the ultimate "Fox News" style headline about Romnesia: Obama Invents Fake Disease To Describe Romney Policies
posted by Theta States at 6:18 PM on October 19, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by Theta States at 6:18 PM on October 19, 2012 [5 favorites]
I bet they had to reach out to Fox News "medical A Team" to confirm it is, in fact, not a real disease. Busted, Obama! Not so funny when the fact checker becomes, um, fact checkee?
posted by rainy at 6:25 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by rainy at 6:25 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
That Romnesia attack is the stickiest thing in months. The networks can't get enough of it.
posted by Miko at 6:44 PM on October 19, 2012
posted by Miko at 6:44 PM on October 19, 2012
Now that Team Obama has released the Romnesia meme, they need to move away from it and let the Internet and news media beat it into the ground. The joke jumped the proverbial shark about twenty minutes ago, so they should move on to their next talking point on Monday.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:47 PM on October 19, 2012
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:47 PM on October 19, 2012
It definitely hasn't jumped the shark for America at large. For internet people like us, sure. But I know half my family members haven't heard of it yet. He just said it this morning. It hasn't even been 12 hours. People have been at work, are on vacation, haven't been watching television, have been attending functions, sporting events, doing errands, meeting friends, going places, solving problems, shopping, et cetera.
"Romnesia" will still be fresh through at least the debate on Monday.
posted by cashman at 6:54 PM on October 19, 2012
"Romnesia" will still be fresh through at least the debate on Monday.
posted by cashman at 6:54 PM on October 19, 2012
Romnesia at wikipedia.
It might not have jumped the shark yet, but its strapping on the water skiis.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:06 PM on October 19, 2012
It might not have jumped the shark yet, but its strapping on the water skiis.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:06 PM on October 19, 2012
Slander gets on its waterskis before truth finds matching socks.
posted by fleacircus at 7:12 PM on October 19, 2012 [11 favorites]
posted by fleacircus at 7:12 PM on October 19, 2012 [11 favorites]
Things seem to be turning against Romney. Half assing didn't work. Lying his ass off wasn't enough. Does he commit to what McCain could not, and unleash the crazies?
posted by fleacircus at 7:15 PM on October 19, 2012
posted by fleacircus at 7:15 PM on October 19, 2012
Things seem to be turning against Romney. Half assing didn't work. Lying his ass off wasn't enough. Does he commit to what McCain could not, and unleash the crazies?
He's not far behind enough to unleash the crazies. He's still got the voter suppression efforts and the fact that his family owns the voting machines in swing states to get him votes. I would think he'd save the crazy unleashedness for when he has nothing to lose because of how far behind he is and how much time is left. I don't believe in all the 12th dimensional chess stuff, but if an offshoot of the President's 1st debate performance was that Mitt was close enough that he didn't go that route, and the president now is going to go on a run and open up an insurmountable lead right before time expires, well that would be a pretty nice gameplan. That Republican money is still out there though. I'd be interested to know what kind of attack ads people are seeing on their televisions.
posted by cashman at 7:22 PM on October 19, 2012
He's not far behind enough to unleash the crazies. He's still got the voter suppression efforts and the fact that his family owns the voting machines in swing states to get him votes. I would think he'd save the crazy unleashedness for when he has nothing to lose because of how far behind he is and how much time is left. I don't believe in all the 12th dimensional chess stuff, but if an offshoot of the President's 1st debate performance was that Mitt was close enough that he didn't go that route, and the president now is going to go on a run and open up an insurmountable lead right before time expires, well that would be a pretty nice gameplan. That Republican money is still out there though. I'd be interested to know what kind of attack ads people are seeing on their televisions.
posted by cashman at 7:22 PM on October 19, 2012
Remember yall, the democrats and republicans are just the same.
posted by cashman at 7:25 PM on October 19, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by cashman at 7:25 PM on October 19, 2012 [4 favorites]
Ok, two reports of dumping voter registration files in Virginia did it for me. I just volunteered to be a poll watcher, and boy will I be watching for people who say "but I filled out the form, why can't I vote?"
I'm just so mad I can't think straight.
I've been registered for so long I don't remember the process. Do you get a receipt or something when you fill out the form?
posted by Measured Out my Life in Coffeespoons at 7:32 PM on October 19, 2012 [8 favorites]
I'm just so mad I can't think straight.
I've been registered for so long I don't remember the process. Do you get a receipt or something when you fill out the form?
posted by Measured Out my Life in Coffeespoons at 7:32 PM on October 19, 2012 [8 favorites]
as long as Monday goes ok, we should all be fine. I suspect both candidates know how important it will be and I wonder how Romney will handle the pressure, my guess.. considering how much he was rewarded for being so aggressive in the first debate he is going to go all in. I hope ole Bob is prepared to be interrupted like mad.
posted by edgeways at 7:37 PM on October 19, 2012
posted by edgeways at 7:37 PM on October 19, 2012
if an offshoot of the President's 1st debate performance was that Mitt was close enough that he didn't go that route, and the president now is going to go on a run and open up an insurmountable lead right before time expires, well that would be a pretty nice gameplan.
That's a big "if". I suspect that polling day is going to leave a lot of questions about the race unanswered, and only later data analysis will reveal the truth. I think that a plausible scenario is that the real voting intention of those who will actually vote has remained essentially unchanged since the conventions, with about a 2-3% Obama lead in the popular vote, while the polls have exaggerated and even created a set of wild and largely illusory swings. This theory may, of course, not be true, but the real problem with it is that, even if it is true, we're going to have a hell of a job finding out.
With my practical head on, I don't care as long as Obama keeps Romney out of the White House, but my nerd head is fascinated by the pretty patterns.
posted by howfar at 7:40 PM on October 19, 2012
That's a big "if". I suspect that polling day is going to leave a lot of questions about the race unanswered, and only later data analysis will reveal the truth. I think that a plausible scenario is that the real voting intention of those who will actually vote has remained essentially unchanged since the conventions, with about a 2-3% Obama lead in the popular vote, while the polls have exaggerated and even created a set of wild and largely illusory swings. This theory may, of course, not be true, but the real problem with it is that, even if it is true, we're going to have a hell of a job finding out.
With my practical head on, I don't care as long as Obama keeps Romney out of the White House, but my nerd head is fascinated by the pretty patterns.
posted by howfar at 7:40 PM on October 19, 2012
OK...
so the current main headline at Fox News is "Romney Gains on Obama in Ohio"
"FOX NEWS POLL: President maintains narrow edge in the key battleground state, but his lead over Romney has shrunk after losing support among independents, women and young voters."
SCATHING LOSSES! WOW!
But when we look at the numbers at RCP, the Fox News poll gives OBama +3.
*headasplode*
posted by Theta States at 7:41 PM on October 19, 2012
so the current main headline at Fox News is "Romney Gains on Obama in Ohio"
"FOX NEWS POLL: President maintains narrow edge in the key battleground state, but his lead over Romney has shrunk after losing support among independents, women and young voters."
SCATHING LOSSES! WOW!
But when we look at the numbers at RCP, the Fox News poll gives OBama +3.
*headasplode*
posted by Theta States at 7:41 PM on October 19, 2012
I refuse to look at individual polls any more if I can help it. I get my intermittent reinforcement at Sam Wang's place and avoid as much head asplodery as possible.
posted by maudlin at 7:45 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by maudlin at 7:45 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
I am hoping Obama's opening statements on Monday are along the lines of:
"My opponent here, over the course of his 6 year long campaign for the presidency, has often played armchair quarterback in regards to foreign policy. He has always said whatever would win his current campaign the most applause, without actually considering what is best for the country. When your perspective on other countries primarily comes from your room at their 5-star hotels, we cannot risk the foreign policy whims of someone whose only strategy has been gung-ho rhetoric that was etcha-sketched for each new campaign."
posted by Theta States at 7:48 PM on October 19, 2012 [7 favorites]
"My opponent here, over the course of his 6 year long campaign for the presidency, has often played armchair quarterback in regards to foreign policy. He has always said whatever would win his current campaign the most applause, without actually considering what is best for the country. When your perspective on other countries primarily comes from your room at their 5-star hotels, we cannot risk the foreign policy whims of someone whose only strategy has been gung-ho rhetoric that was etcha-sketched for each new campaign."
posted by Theta States at 7:48 PM on October 19, 2012 [7 favorites]
Do you get a receipt or something when you fill out the form?
Yes you certainly do. There is a white upper sheet and a yellow carbon copy lower sheet. The voter keeps the lower. Of course... that's assuming the voter is actually given the carbon copy. Each form has its own registration number and these are booked out to the group registering them. They must be returned eventually (in theory) and if one is lost it has to be reported. Or at least that's how it's done on the Obama campaign... but we seem to be sticklers for this. Other people apparently are a little more "flexible".
posted by NailsTheCat at 7:50 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
Yes you certainly do. There is a white upper sheet and a yellow carbon copy lower sheet. The voter keeps the lower. Of course... that's assuming the voter is actually given the carbon copy. Each form has its own registration number and these are booked out to the group registering them. They must be returned eventually (in theory) and if one is lost it has to be reported. Or at least that's how it's done on the Obama campaign... but we seem to be sticklers for this. Other people apparently are a little more "flexible".
posted by NailsTheCat at 7:50 PM on October 19, 2012 [2 favorites]
Thanks NailstheCat. It would be great if "someone" started a "bring your receipt to the polls" campaign for new registrants (obviously to set the stage for challenges). Sadly, I am not that person or organization.
posted by Measured Out my Life in Coffeespoons at 8:00 PM on October 19, 2012
posted by Measured Out my Life in Coffeespoons at 8:00 PM on October 19, 2012
It would be great if "someone" started a "bring your receipt to the polls" campaign for new registrants
That's a smart idea--yeah, if someone could broadcast that message. If you're there at the day and someone does bring it (and find out they're not registered), you can always collect the numbers for passing on for official investigation I guess.
I would hope that any Virginians that recently registered have already checked their details on on line however.
posted by NailsTheCat at 8:05 PM on October 19, 2012
That's a smart idea--yeah, if someone could broadcast that message. If you're there at the day and someone does bring it (and find out they're not registered), you can always collect the numbers for passing on for official investigation I guess.
I would hope that any Virginians that recently registered have already checked their details on on line however.
posted by NailsTheCat at 8:05 PM on October 19, 2012
I got a weird little paper receipt when I recently registered in New Mexico, and was then sent out something via mail that confirmed that I was registered, and told me the address of my polling place.
Regarding Romnesia, a conservative relative of mine said "Romney started out conservative but is becoming more moderate," as if this was a planned shift. Except he shifted from moderate to conservative and back again, all while governor of Massachusetts, clearly seen on the topic of gay marriage/ civil union/ domestic partnerships. But said relative thinks gay rights are a non-topic. "The president couldn't overturn Roe v. Wade" (except you can get it done, or close enough, with his selections for SCotUS, reclassifying personhood, and defunding any program that provides any abortion services like Texas recently did).
But this is all window dressing. It's all about the economy (says the relative who watches CNBC for hours a day).
I'm really looking forward to the foreign policy debate, because it might get some people to realize that the roll of the PotUS is larger than Fixing The Economy.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:08 PM on October 19, 2012
Regarding Romnesia, a conservative relative of mine said "Romney started out conservative but is becoming more moderate," as if this was a planned shift. Except he shifted from moderate to conservative and back again, all while governor of Massachusetts, clearly seen on the topic of gay marriage/ civil union/ domestic partnerships. But said relative thinks gay rights are a non-topic. "The president couldn't overturn Roe v. Wade" (except you can get it done, or close enough, with his selections for SCotUS, reclassifying personhood, and defunding any program that provides any abortion services like Texas recently did).
But this is all window dressing. It's all about the economy (says the relative who watches CNBC for hours a day).
I'm really looking forward to the foreign policy debate, because it might get some people to realize that the roll of the PotUS is larger than Fixing The Economy.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:08 PM on October 19, 2012
I wonder how localized this is, and if it does go higher if they'll get ratted out.
posted by edgeways at 8:10 PM on October 19, 2012
posted by edgeways at 8:10 PM on October 19, 2012
Barack Obama Looks Like He Is Enjoying Himself On The Campaign Trail - What Took Him So Long?
Why Don't Presidential Candidates Talk About Segregation?
Weekly Standard:
Romancing Ohio
Order and Stability vs. Progress and Reform
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:26 PM on October 19, 2012
Why Don't Presidential Candidates Talk About Segregation?
Weekly Standard:
Romancing Ohio
Order and Stability vs. Progress and Reform
The Republicans are now the ones offering ideas of progress or reform, while the Democrats fiercely fight to protect the established order of entitle-ments, tax hikes, and obeisance to unions, greens, and feminists. Even when Obama and Biden have been highly caffeinated, they have not stated their plans and goals for a second term. They are too busy painting a socialist--realist mural of Romney and Ryan as maniacal reactionaries.Blerg.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:26 PM on October 19, 2012
I think this new talking point they're trying to push about Obama having no plans is possibly the most desperate bit of transparent projection so far.
I want to try Republican-style preemptive projection to get out of doing work: "Our boss hasn't even produced a mockup for the new news graphics!" "Well, he runs a TV station and can barely run MS Paint and you're our only news graphics guy." "CANDY LET ME TALK I WILL CREATE 12 MILLION NEW GRAPHICS GUYS."
posted by jason_steakums at 10:46 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
I want to try Republican-style preemptive projection to get out of doing work: "Our boss hasn't even produced a mockup for the new news graphics!" "Well, he runs a TV station and can barely run MS Paint and you're our only news graphics guy." "CANDY LET ME TALK I WILL CREATE 12 MILLION NEW GRAPHICS GUYS."
posted by jason_steakums at 10:46 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
(also, now I can't separate Romney's "I will create 12 million jobs" from GOB's "I will buy you a hundred George Michaels!")
posted by jason_steakums at 10:48 PM on October 19, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 10:48 PM on October 19, 2012 [4 favorites]
filthy light thief: “But said relative thinks gay rights are a non-topic. 'The president couldn't overturn Roe v. Wade' (except you can get it done, or close enough, with his selections for SCotUS, reclassifying personhood, and defunding any program that provides any abortion services like Texas recently did). But this is all window dressing. It's all about the economy (says the relative who watches CNBC for hours a day).”
Yeah, the two arch-conservative friends I have, one of whom is a tea party dude, say the same thing – gay rights is a non-issue, Roe should be overturned but probably won't be anyway, and generally the economy is much more important than any of those things.
The thing is that both of these arch-conservative friends of mine are gay. Which makes our arguments... interesting, at least.
posted by koeselitz at 10:59 PM on October 19, 2012
Yeah, the two arch-conservative friends I have, one of whom is a tea party dude, say the same thing – gay rights is a non-issue, Roe should be overturned but probably won't be anyway, and generally the economy is much more important than any of those things.
The thing is that both of these arch-conservative friends of mine are gay. Which makes our arguments... interesting, at least.
posted by koeselitz at 10:59 PM on October 19, 2012
Joe Walsh Accuses Tammy Duckworth Of Blaming Sexual Assault Victims
posted by homunculus at 11:06 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 11:06 PM on October 19, 2012 [1 favorite]
What Is Mitt Romney Planning For America?
But cold, calculating self-interest is not the whole story. That doesn’t explain the fury we hear from Fox News, talk radio and Republicans on the stump. The right wing, after all, draws votes from beyond the one-percent, or even the ten-percent that their economic policies conspicuously favor.NYTimes blog :How Not To Choose A President
A more sweeping reason for Republican rage became more clear when I recently stumbled across an essay noting of Mitt Romney’s book No Apologies in an old copy of the New Yorker. Writer Louis Menand pinpointed anxiety about America’s decline as the centerpiece of the candidate’s campaign.
There is, in fact, a decisive difference between sports and politics. The rules of a game have no function except to determine a winner. As far as the rules go, it doesn’t matter what the winner does after the game. But the “rules” for real life choices need to be good guides to what the winner will do after the choice is made. In an election we need reasons for thinking that the winner will go on to be a good president. There’s no reason to think that someone who has been successful just out of luck will continue to be successful; and there’s every reason to think that anyone is likely to act wrongly sometimes in the future. That’s why it’s a mistake to identify competence with success or to see occasional lapses as disqualifying.Big Think responds: How To Pick A President
This conclusion, in my view, is fundamentally mistaken. In voting for the candidate whose party platform is closest to our own policy preferences, we risk putting someone in office who will break campaign promises, who will drift left or right of us, who will promise quick action on immigration reform or no new taxes, say, and not follow through.Ron Christie Should Never Be On Television Again
Late last night, unable to sleep in a hotel room, I turned on MSNBC and I saw an amazing segment about the right-wing assault on Candy Crowley for the egregious act of journalism she committed the other night to the detriment of Willard Romney, who really has become quite a remarkable liar over the past few years. I was only about half-paying attention to the whole business until host Ed Schultz brought on former Bush flack Ron Christie to chat over the topic with a Democratic strategist named Chris Kofinis. Christie is one of those apologists for C-Plus Augustus who pop up from time to time. As he willingly flacked for the most truthless administration of all time, Christie prima facie doesn't have the credibility that God gave the common sea slug, but he got brought out anyway. The ensuing segment smacked my gob out the window of the hotel and twenty-one floors down into the Chicago River below.posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:39 AM on October 20, 2012
Nate Silver of 538 and Sam Wang of Princeton Election Consortium on NPR (audio) if you missed it the first time. These guys are good.
posted by ersatz at 3:19 AM on October 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by ersatz at 3:19 AM on October 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
In voting for the candidate whose party platform is closest to our own policy preferences, we risk putting someone in office who will break campaign promises, who will drift left or right of us, who will promise quick action on immigration reform or no new taxes, say, and not follow through. And even if a president pursues exactly the platform he ran on, there is no telling how much success he will have. Under circumstances of divided government, and with the increased partisan rancor of recent years, the safer bet is that little of a president’s agenda will see the light of day.That's life, dude.
So it makes more sense to vote for a president you are comfortable imagining as representative of the nation and in the role of Commander-in-Chief rather than finding the ideal Legislator-in-Chief who comes from a party that matches your ideology. A president will have much more influence on foreign affairs, and given the uncertainties and unpredictable nature of international politics, party platforms here are of very limited utility in forecasting how (or what) a president will do.I find this poorly reasoned.
There's no functional difference between the platform I prefer and the people who represent the nation best in foreign affairs. Also, the whole piece ignores the issue of judicial appointments and agency appointments.
In general, I find it really interesting how many people consider the SCOTUS and other appointments as kind of a side issue to the choice for the Presidency. I personally don't believe I can afford to think like that, and it makes you realize how basically comfortable a lot of other Americans are when you see that they don't consider it central.
posted by Miko at 5:56 AM on October 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
1.- Ohio Voting Machines, HIG, Bain, and Tagg Romney’s Role
2. - Romney family buys voting machines through Bain Capital investment
posted by Skygazer at 7:07 AM on October 20, 2012
2. - Romney family buys voting machines through Bain Capital investment
posted by Skygazer at 7:07 AM on October 20, 2012
So it makes more sense to vote for a president you are comfortable imagining as representative of the nation and in the role of Commander-in-Chief rather than finding the ideal Legislator-in-Chief who comes from a party that matches your ideology. A president will have much more influence on foreign affairs, and given the uncertainties and unpredictable nature of international politics, party platforms here are of very limited utility in forecasting how (or what) a president will do.
Even if I did this extremely irresponsible thing, I'd still end up having to vote a Democratic candidate every election since I started voting.
Al Gore, John Kerry, Barack Obama were all far more personally appealing and gravitas possessing candidates than George Bush and Willard Romney. If the Republicans continue throwing up the bullying fratbros who despise women and others not just like them, I could vote purely on the basis of personal affinity for the rest of my life.
posted by winna at 7:08 AM on October 20, 2012 [9 favorites]
Even if I did this extremely irresponsible thing, I'd still end up having to vote a Democratic candidate every election since I started voting.
Al Gore, John Kerry, Barack Obama were all far more personally appealing and gravitas possessing candidates than George Bush and Willard Romney. If the Republicans continue throwing up the bullying fratbros who despise women and others not just like them, I could vote purely on the basis of personal affinity for the rest of my life.
posted by winna at 7:08 AM on October 20, 2012 [9 favorites]
Looking at the electoral map is sorta scary in terms of just fearing for the soul of one's country. It's like this inner anger held in place by this layer of blue.
posted by angrycat at 7:29 AM on October 20, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 7:29 AM on October 20, 2012 [5 favorites]
You think that looks scary, don't look at the last map on this page. It's like the country is being strangled by a red weed.
posted by Rhaomi at 8:08 AM on October 20, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by Rhaomi at 8:08 AM on October 20, 2012 [5 favorites]
From Josh Marshall, on Benghazi: More Problems for Romney
And just as an aside, I wonder if they will play "Name that world leader" on Monday.
posted by Bokmakierie at 8:21 AM on October 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
And just as an aside, I wonder if they will play "Name that world leader" on Monday.
posted by Bokmakierie at 8:21 AM on October 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
You think that looks scary, don't look at the last map on this page. It's like the country is being strangled by a red weed.
posted by Rhaomi at 11:08 AM
This one is quite psychedelic and grooovy, maaan....
If you scratch it, it smells like jasmine and patchouli and their are visions of napalm and Nixon embedded in it...
posted by Skygazer at 9:02 AM on October 20, 2012
posted by Rhaomi at 11:08 AM
This one is quite psychedelic and grooovy, maaan....
If you scratch it, it smells like jasmine and patchouli and their are visions of napalm and Nixon embedded in it...
posted by Skygazer at 9:02 AM on October 20, 2012
From the Weekly Standard article on Ohio that the man of twists and turns linked above:The U.S. Supreme Court last week rejected his plan to free election officials from the burden of early voting on the final three days before November 6.
Now that's what I call spin.
posted by bardophile at 9:16 AM on October 20, 2012 [6 favorites]
Now that's what I call spin.
posted by bardophile at 9:16 AM on October 20, 2012 [6 favorites]
With regards to the voting machines - if maybe at the last minute, romney realizes he's losing the race and pushes the big red button that will turn on the ballot-fraud, what's the worst case outcome? How many states does he potentially have his thumb on the scales? Would machine fraud decisively give him the win, or would there still be a margin in the other states that would give the victory to obama?
posted by rebent at 9:19 AM on October 20, 2012
posted by rebent at 9:19 AM on October 20, 2012
So it makes more sense to vote for a president you are comfortable imagining as representative of the nation and in the role of Commander-in-Chief rather than finding the ideal Legislator-in-Chief who comes from a party that matches your ideology
Given that the US electoral system (arguably by intention) already makes it difficult for anyone to establish a clear policy mandate, attempts to further disconnect lawmaking from the voting process do not seem like a step in the right direction to me.
posted by howfar at 9:46 AM on October 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
Given that the US electoral system (arguably by intention) already makes it difficult for anyone to establish a clear policy mandate, attempts to further disconnect lawmaking from the voting process do not seem like a step in the right direction to me.
posted by howfar at 9:46 AM on October 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
Matt Taibbi: Finally Liberated From Facts, Mitt Romney the Pure Bull Artist Takes Flight
posted by homunculus at 10:24 AM on October 20, 2012
posted by homunculus at 10:24 AM on October 20, 2012
Wikipedia:
(Emphasis mine, obviously.)
posted by Room 641-A at 10:36 AM on October 20, 2012 [8 favorites]
The Mitt Romney presidential campaign of 2012 began when Mitt Romney, the former Governor of Massachusetts, launched his second candidacy for the presidency of the United States in a bid to win the 2012 presidential election. His candidacy was formally announced on June 2, 2011skygazer: Romney family buys voting machines through Bain Capital investment
"Late last month, Gerry Bello and Bob Fitrakis at FreePress.org broke the story of the Mitt Romney/Bain Capital investment team involved in H.I.G. Capital which, in July of 2011, completed a "strategic investment" to take over a fair share of the Austin-based e-voting machine company Hart Intercivic," according to independent journalist Brad Friedman.
(Emphasis mine, obviously.)
posted by Room 641-A at 10:36 AM on October 20, 2012 [8 favorites]
Mitt Romney Bain Attacks: Obama-Backing Super PAC Goes Back To The Well.
posted by ericb at 10:50 AM on October 20, 2012
posted by ericb at 10:50 AM on October 20, 2012
Arthur Allen, CEO Of ASG, Sent Email Pressuring Employees To Donate To Mitt Romney.
posted by ericb at 10:52 AM on October 20, 2012
posted by ericb at 10:52 AM on October 20, 2012
Tagg Romney Says Stories About Taking Over Father's Campaign Are 'Fairy Tale'.
posted by ericb at 10:53 AM on October 20, 2012
posted by ericb at 10:53 AM on October 20, 2012
Hoh. It's obvious. For my money, in voting for a candidate, everyone should co-operatively choose to vote for the candidate without the investment interest in voting machines, just to see how the numbers stack up. It's a gambol.
posted by de at 10:55 AM on October 20, 2012
posted by de at 10:55 AM on October 20, 2012
Tagg is the new Bristol.
posted by Bokmakierie at 11:26 AM on October 20, 2012
posted by Bokmakierie at 11:26 AM on October 20, 2012
HIG is the new bot.
Obvious really. Who, apart from Palin, would name anything HIG?
posted by de at 11:30 AM on October 20, 2012
Obvious really. Who, apart from Palin, would name anything HIG?
posted by de at 11:30 AM on October 20, 2012
Two items that deserve widespread media coverage, but will they get it?
Issa’s Benghazi document dump exposes several Libyans working with the U.S.
The damn republicans - first they exposed Valerie Plame and now several very vulnerable Iraqis - all for political gain. These people cannot be entrusted with sensitive national security issues.
CIA documents supported Susan Rice’s description of Benghazi attacks
"The Romney campaign may have misfired with its suggestion that statements by President Obama and U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice about the Benghazi attack last month weren’t supported by intelligence, according to documents provided by a senior U.S. intelligence official.
“Talking points” prepared by the CIA on Sept. 15, the same day that Rice taped three television appearances, support her description of the Sept. 11 attack on the U.S. Consulate as a reaction to Arab anger about an anti-Muslim video prepared in the United States. According to the CIA account, “The currently available information suggests that the demonstrations in Benghazi were spontaneously inspired by the protests at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo and evolved into a direct assault against the U.S. Consulate and subsequently its annex. There are indications that extremists participated in the violent demonstrations.”
posted by madamjujujive at 11:47 AM on October 20, 2012 [7 favorites]
Issa’s Benghazi document dump exposes several Libyans working with the U.S.
The damn republicans - first they exposed Valerie Plame and now several very vulnerable Iraqis - all for political gain. These people cannot be entrusted with sensitive national security issues.
CIA documents supported Susan Rice’s description of Benghazi attacks
"The Romney campaign may have misfired with its suggestion that statements by President Obama and U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice about the Benghazi attack last month weren’t supported by intelligence, according to documents provided by a senior U.S. intelligence official.
“Talking points” prepared by the CIA on Sept. 15, the same day that Rice taped three television appearances, support her description of the Sept. 11 attack on the U.S. Consulate as a reaction to Arab anger about an anti-Muslim video prepared in the United States. According to the CIA account, “The currently available information suggests that the demonstrations in Benghazi were spontaneously inspired by the protests at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo and evolved into a direct assault against the U.S. Consulate and subsequently its annex. There are indications that extremists participated in the violent demonstrations.”
posted by madamjujujive at 11:47 AM on October 20, 2012 [7 favorites]
Jackie Speier, lawmaker who needed abortion, rips Joe Walsh
posted by homunculus at 11:49 AM on October 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 11:49 AM on October 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
> House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-CA) compromised the identities of several Libyans working with the U.S. government and placed their lives in danger when he released reams of State Department communications Friday, according to Obama administration officials.
Issa needs to watch himself. Next thing you know he'll be wanted for questioning in Sweden.
posted by de at 11:58 AM on October 20, 2012 [7 favorites]
Issa needs to watch himself. Next thing you know he'll be wanted for questioning in Sweden.
posted by de at 11:58 AM on October 20, 2012 [7 favorites]
1.- Ohio Voting Machines, HIG, Bain, and Tagg Romney’s Role
2. - Romney family buys voting machines through Bain Capital investment
posted by Skygazer at 7:07 AM on October 20 [+] [!]
How can this possibly be legal? It's not, and it reveals that, in spite of the Republican's ostensible mistrust of the voting process, they blithely assume that such arrangements pose no risks to it. Funny about that. I wonder if they'd feel the same way if Obama had such a connection. And we, the public, don't have the right to have an independent agent examine the code and do rigorous testing of these machines. WTF?
posted by Mental Wimp at 12:14 PM on October 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
2. - Romney family buys voting machines through Bain Capital investment
posted by Skygazer at 7:07 AM on October 20 [+] [!]
How can this possibly be legal? It's not, and it reveals that, in spite of the Republican's ostensible mistrust of the voting process, they blithely assume that such arrangements pose no risks to it. Funny about that. I wonder if they'd feel the same way if Obama had such a connection. And we, the public, don't have the right to have an independent agent examine the code and do rigorous testing of these machines. WTF?
posted by Mental Wimp at 12:14 PM on October 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
The Daily Mail fabricated anti-Obama quotes from diplomat's mother.
posted by dirigibleman at 12:15 PM on October 20, 2012
posted by dirigibleman at 12:15 PM on October 20, 2012
The USA has the best elections money can buy.
posted by five fresh fish at 12:26 PM on October 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by five fresh fish at 12:26 PM on October 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
EDIT: My mistake, Murdoch doesn't own the Daily Mail.
posted by syzygy at 12:32 PM on October 20, 2012
posted by syzygy at 12:32 PM on October 20, 2012
Murdoch
Yeah, the DM is a bunch of lying bastards[1] but they aren't the News International bunch of bastards.
[1] Me in a deleted thread: I know someone who committed suicide at a party where drugs were present as a teen and the DM ran a full 'a middle class clever child committed suicide, drugs are teh evilz and this teen is a tragic addict' story that ignored his long term depression and just entirely made up a drugs OD because it was a juicier story. Legally they can't libel the dead, but they certainly could increase the the grief of mother, father and sister by pissing on the not-week-old grave of a dead child.
Their editorial stance of racism, xenophobic lies, and further hit pieces interleaved with blatant sexism, a constant interest in the weight of female celebrities and the dubiously alleged cancer causing/curing properties of various things have also not endeared them to me before or since.
posted by jaduncan at 12:39 PM on October 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah, the DM is a bunch of lying bastards[1] but they aren't the News International bunch of bastards.
[1] Me in a deleted thread: I know someone who committed suicide at a party where drugs were present as a teen and the DM ran a full 'a middle class clever child committed suicide, drugs are teh evilz and this teen is a tragic addict' story that ignored his long term depression and just entirely made up a drugs OD because it was a juicier story. Legally they can't libel the dead, but they certainly could increase the the grief of mother, father and sister by pissing on the not-week-old grave of a dead child.
Their editorial stance of racism, xenophobic lies, and further hit pieces interleaved with blatant sexism, a constant interest in the weight of female celebrities and the dubiously alleged cancer causing/curing properties of various things have also not endeared them to me before or since.
posted by jaduncan at 12:39 PM on October 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
EDIT:
Please do not do this; just leave another comment if you need to correct/clarify something you've said, so we don't have conspicuous people-responding-to-stuff-you-no-longer-said stuff.
posted by cortex at 12:43 PM on October 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
Please do not do this; just leave another comment if you need to correct/clarify something you've said, so we don't have conspicuous people-responding-to-stuff-you-no-longer-said stuff.
posted by cortex at 12:43 PM on October 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
Surprise, ladies! You don't think affordable contraceptives is important. Well at least that is what Romney's campaign is trying to tell you:
It sounds like something Michelle would do in a heartbeat. But somehow I can't really imagine Ann giving a shit, can you?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:44 PM on October 20, 2012 [9 favorites]
Kerry Healey, Romney's lieutenant governor in Massachusetts, fresh off her borderline-comical turn in the post-debate spin room last night, sat down with MSNBC's Andrea Mitchell today, and the host asked questions Healey presumably expected, noting Romney's support for the Blunt Amendment, for example.Gee, you know what would be really great? If Ann would sit down with some non-millionaires and take a look at their monthly budgets. "Let's see. You have 3 kids already and you and your husband are trying to be sensible about not having another when you are already struggling? And after you pay the bills your discretionary income is how much? And you spend how much on your contraceptives every month?
Inexplicably, the Romney surrogate described the consequences of the candidate's own proposals as "some hypothetical situation." Healey added that even having a discussion about women being able to afford contraception is a "peripheral" issue.
This arrogant attitude is extraordinary. Under Romney's preferred agenda, employers can end contraception coverage for their women employees, and millions of Americans would no longer be able to afford birth control.
Asked to defend this right-wing nonsense, the Romney campaign's defense is that the question is irrelevant -- as if the issue is so trivial, it's not even worth their time.
It sounds like something Michelle would do in a heartbeat. But somehow I can't really imagine Ann giving a shit, can you?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:44 PM on October 20, 2012 [9 favorites]
Ann wouldn't think about dollars. How uncouth.
posted by de at 12:54 PM on October 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by de at 12:54 PM on October 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
Has Mitt created more American jobs than he has sent to China? I can't help think that between job losses, raiding, and tax avoidance, Mitt is bound to be of net negative benefit to the US economy.
posted by five fresh fish at 1:02 PM on October 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by five fresh fish at 1:02 PM on October 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
Ann's an assette. Mitt?
posted by de at 1:08 PM on October 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by de at 1:08 PM on October 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
Is anybody here from Ohio or Col? It must be really fucking awful in those states right now. I guess it would suck to be in Florida, but I've never understood that state anyways.
posted by angrycat at 1:26 PM on October 20, 2012
posted by angrycat at 1:26 PM on October 20, 2012
Has Mitt created more American jobs than he has sent to China? I can't help think that between job losses, raiding, and tax avoidance, Mitt is bound to be of net negative benefit to the US economy.
I've thought that for some time. For someone who wants to lead the country he hasn't exactly been a super Patriot, has he? He avoided the draft. He pays very little in taxes. He gives charitably mainly to his own church and to Republican-based foundations. He hasn't-- as far as I know-- done anything since being Governor except make money. You would think that someone wanting to be President would try a little harder, wouldn't you? But I guess in the Republican world you are a Patriotic American just by becoming a multimillionaire.
And I can't get over Ann. Has there ever been a candidate's wife who was so freaking disdainful of everybody? I don't remember too much about Nancy Reagan before Ronnie was elected so perhaps she was just as bad. Ann's main responsibility seems to be to go on TV and scold everyone for not being in love with husband.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:40 PM on October 20, 2012 [16 favorites]
I've thought that for some time. For someone who wants to lead the country he hasn't exactly been a super Patriot, has he? He avoided the draft. He pays very little in taxes. He gives charitably mainly to his own church and to Republican-based foundations. He hasn't-- as far as I know-- done anything since being Governor except make money. You would think that someone wanting to be President would try a little harder, wouldn't you? But I guess in the Republican world you are a Patriotic American just by becoming a multimillionaire.
And I can't get over Ann. Has there ever been a candidate's wife who was so freaking disdainful of everybody? I don't remember too much about Nancy Reagan before Ronnie was elected so perhaps she was just as bad. Ann's main responsibility seems to be to go on TV and scold everyone for not being in love with husband.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:40 PM on October 20, 2012 [16 favorites]
Ann's main responsibility seems to be to go on TV and scold everyone for not being in love with husband.
And for daring to question him or her...
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:50 PM on October 20, 2012
And for daring to question him or her...
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:50 PM on October 20, 2012
It's difficult to know what to believe.
Does Tagg Romney have ownership of electronic voting machines to be used in Ohio, including software and servers, or not? It doesn't require a supreme court judge to decide that's a serious conflict of interest and should be an immediately disqualified contract even if the system is on the up-and-up ... bizarre that that situation isn't being rectified.
Here's something else I read that I can't now shake from my head, (it'll be on my mind his whole 'father-knows-best' presidency):
posted by de at 2:15 PM on October 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
Does Tagg Romney have ownership of electronic voting machines to be used in Ohio, including software and servers, or not? It doesn't require a supreme court judge to decide that's a serious conflict of interest and should be an immediately disqualified contract even if the system is on the up-and-up ... bizarre that that situation isn't being rectified.
Here's something else I read that I can't now shake from my head, (it'll be on my mind his whole 'father-knows-best' presidency):
"The Romneys were, in fact, unusually tight-knit. One visitor recalls a family ritual: Every night at around 9:30 or 10:00, Mitt and Ann would meet at the foot of their staircase, clasp hands, and escort each other upstairs to the bedroom, in full view of their brood." -- calgaryherald.comThat's not healthy.
posted by de at 2:15 PM on October 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
And I can't get over Ann. Has there ever been a candidate's wife who was so freaking disdainful of everybody? I don't remember too much about Nancy Reagan before Ronnie was elected so perhaps she was just as bad. Ann's main responsibility seems to be to go on TV and scold everyone for not being in love with husband.
Watching her on the view this week, she seemed to have reined in the disdain. She walked on the show and announced that it was so good to be there because of all the estrogen.
She spent most of her time there, in my opinion, just trying to maintain. Just deflecting questions as best she could, while trying to present the view that overall they are good people, in their own world.
Ann seems to want to be left alone. I guess I can't blame her, you know Mitt has kind of drug her into all this and she does not seem to have the tools to cope with people who criticize her and her family. It probably also has a lot to do with not only her fighting MS, but more that it has been so far between now and the last time she and Mitt were criticized in a way that was meaningful and powerful, that it is making her uncomfortable.
Mitt still has a chance, and I'm like a fan who absolutely refuses to celebrate until its all zeroes on the clock and Barack has been reelected, but Ann's demeanor on the show seemed to be a want to just hold it together the last 3 weeks until all of this is done for good. A demeanor of "I don't need this crap". And I'm inclined to look at Mitt again and think Christ, what an asshole for not only dragging her through this but also he was supposed to go on the View with Ann, but he backed out, leaving her there to fend off questions about his behavior.
posted by cashman at 3:16 PM on October 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
Watching her on the view this week, she seemed to have reined in the disdain. She walked on the show and announced that it was so good to be there because of all the estrogen.
She spent most of her time there, in my opinion, just trying to maintain. Just deflecting questions as best she could, while trying to present the view that overall they are good people, in their own world.
Ann seems to want to be left alone. I guess I can't blame her, you know Mitt has kind of drug her into all this and she does not seem to have the tools to cope with people who criticize her and her family. It probably also has a lot to do with not only her fighting MS, but more that it has been so far between now and the last time she and Mitt were criticized in a way that was meaningful and powerful, that it is making her uncomfortable.
Mitt still has a chance, and I'm like a fan who absolutely refuses to celebrate until its all zeroes on the clock and Barack has been reelected, but Ann's demeanor on the show seemed to be a want to just hold it together the last 3 weeks until all of this is done for good. A demeanor of "I don't need this crap". And I'm inclined to look at Mitt again and think Christ, what an asshole for not only dragging her through this but also he was supposed to go on the View with Ann, but he backed out, leaving her there to fend off questions about his behavior.
posted by cashman at 3:16 PM on October 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
Clear Channel’s Intimidating Voter Fraud Billboards: Coming to a Black Neighborhood Near You
posted by Room 641-A at 3:26 PM on October 20, 2012 [15 favorites]
An anonymous "family foundation" has paid for nearly 150 threatening voter fraud ads to go up around the Midwest, often in predominately black and Latino neighborhoods (the one above looms across the street from a housing project in Cleveland). The ads, 85 of which have appeared in Milwaukee and 60 of which are now around Cleveland and Columbus, read, "Voter fraud is a felony! Up to 3 1/2 years & $10,000 fine."Fuckers.
[...]
Despite their internal rules against anonymity, however, Clear Channel says it will not remove the ads or reveal the group behind them. If that doesn't seem like enough bullshit, how about this: Who is one of Clear Channel's main owners? Bain Capital, of course—the investment firm founded by none other than current Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:26 PM on October 20, 2012 [15 favorites]
U.S. Officials Say Iran Has Agreed to Nuclear Talks
Ohio's largest newspaper, The Cleveland Plain Dealer, endorses Obama
posted by syzygy at 3:47 PM on October 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
The United States and Iran have agreed for the first time to one-on-one negotiations over Iran’s nuclear program, according to Obama administration officials, setting the stage for what could be a last-ditch diplomatic effort to avert a military strike on Iran.Good news just a few days before the foreign policy debate.
Iranian officials have insisted that the talks wait until after the presidential election, a senior administration official said, telling their American counterparts that they want to know with whom they would be negotiating.
Ohio's largest newspaper, The Cleveland Plain Dealer, endorses Obama
Today, we recommend President Obama's re-election. He has led the nation back from the brink of depression. Ohio in particular has benefited from his bold decision to revive the domestic auto industry. Because of his determination to fulfill a decades-old dream of Democrats, 30 million more Americans will soon have health insurance. His Race to the Top initiative seeded many of the education reforms embodied in Cleveland's Transformation Plan. He ended the war in Iraq and refocused the battle to disrupt al-Qaida and its terrorist allies. He ordered the risky attack inside Pakistan that killed Osama bin Laden.It's a tepid endorsement, but it's an important one, nonetheless.
posted by syzygy at 3:47 PM on October 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
Meghan McCain: 'I'm not voting with my vagina'
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:00 PM on October 20, 2012 [10 favorites]
McCain was speaking about the supposed "war on women" being waged by Republican candidates, including Rep. Todd Akin's comments that a woman cannot be impregnated while being raped.Translation: The Republicans are hemorrhaging female votes because of the very real War on Women. Therefore they need to convince women that Women are silly to vote Democrat.
McCain attributed the "war on women" to something that the media has built up and that women voters should focus on other issues in the election, not just the stereotypical birth control issue.
"I'm voting with my pocketbook and when it comes to national security," she said.What does that even mean? Personally I'm voting with my hands, not wiith my vagina or my "pocketbook" (Gah that is such a little old lady term. Does Birkin even make pocketbooks?)
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:00 PM on October 20, 2012 [10 favorites]
Personally I'm voting with my hands, not wiith my vagina or my "pocketbook"
I notice that modern voting machines make it almost impossible to vote with one's vagina, while allowing easy use of the penis for data input. Coincidence? WAKE UP SHEEPLE!
posted by howfar at 4:06 PM on October 20, 2012 [8 favorites]
I notice that modern voting machines make it almost impossible to vote with one's vagina, while allowing easy use of the penis for data input. Coincidence? WAKE UP SHEEPLE!
posted by howfar at 4:06 PM on October 20, 2012 [8 favorites]
1. Does Megan even need a job?
"I'm voting with my pocketbook and when it comes to national security," she said.
2. So she is voting for Obama then?
posted by edgeways at 4:09 PM on October 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
"I'm voting with my pocketbook and when it comes to national security," she said.
2. So she is voting for Obama then?
posted by edgeways at 4:09 PM on October 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
And so it begins. Palm Beach is already continuing in its "unbroken streak of major screw-ups."
posted by madamjujujive at 4:23 PM on October 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by madamjujujive at 4:23 PM on October 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
Rachel Maddow Reminds Us Again What Romney's Foreign Policy Team Would Look Like
posted by homunculus at 4:46 PM on October 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 4:46 PM on October 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
Does Megan even need a job?
She probably doesn't have to worry much about contraceptives either. She should know better, that women's issues are pocketbook issues too.
posted by fleacircus at 5:00 PM on October 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
She probably doesn't have to worry much about contraceptives either. She should know better, that women's issues are pocketbook issues too.
posted by fleacircus at 5:00 PM on October 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
"I'm voting with my pocketbook and when it comes to national security," she said.
So... given that one of the candidates believe in equal pay for equal work, and the other one doesn't, I guess she's voting for Obama?
posted by winna at 5:02 PM on October 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
So... given that one of the candidates believe in equal pay for equal work, and the other one doesn't, I guess she's voting for Obama?
posted by winna at 5:02 PM on October 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
how can those Clear Channel billboards be legal? Why Clear Channel, anyways?
posted by angrycat at 5:10 PM on October 20, 2012
posted by angrycat at 5:10 PM on October 20, 2012
Meghan McCain: 'I'm not voting with my vagina'
I would not vote with Meghan McCain's vagina either. Anyway, I couldn't, everything is all digital now and vaginas don't come with screens. Unless Vajazzling has really changed things and then I'd like to see a brochure
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:16 PM on October 20, 2012 [4 favorites]
I would not vote with Meghan McCain's vagina either. Anyway, I couldn't, everything is all digital now and vaginas don't come with screens. Unless Vajazzling has really changed things and then I'd like to see a brochure
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:16 PM on October 20, 2012 [4 favorites]
I said "This isn't the right analogy, but I feel like I just got together the gumption to leave an abusive relationship."
I've always thought that was the exact right analogy; the abusive spouse who keeps blaming you for making them hit you, who has different sets of rules for you than for them, who puts on a smiley face in public then beats you in private and blows all the grocery money on booze (or military spending in this case).
It works frighteningly well.
posted by emjaybee at 6:17 PM on October 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
I've always thought that was the exact right analogy; the abusive spouse who keeps blaming you for making them hit you, who has different sets of rules for you than for them, who puts on a smiley face in public then beats you in private and blows all the grocery money on booze (or military spending in this case).
It works frighteningly well.
posted by emjaybee at 6:17 PM on October 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
The White House has denied the NYT report of Iran agreeing to talks:
The White House quickly denied the report, which came two days before President Barack Obama is due to face Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney in a debate focused on foreign policy.posted by cashman at 6:53 PM on October 20, 2012
"It's not true that the United States and Iran have agreed to one-on-one talks or any meeting after the American elections," National Security Council spokesman Tommy Vietor said in a statement.
"We continue to work with the P5+1 on a diplomatic solution and have said from the outset that we would be prepared to meet bilaterally."
The P5+1 group is composed of the permanent members of the U.N. Security Council - the United States, Britain, China, France and Russia - plus Germany.
I found this on DailyKos, and is really conspiracy-theory-ey, but funny:
The Justice Department said Wednesday [late August] that it has joined a lawsuit against The Gallup Organization alleging the polling company filed false claims on contracts with the U.S. Mint, the State Department and other government agencies.
posted by dirigibleman at 7:05 PM on October 20, 2012
The Justice Department said Wednesday [late August] that it has joined a lawsuit against The Gallup Organization alleging the polling company filed false claims on contracts with the U.S. Mint, the State Department and other government agencies.
posted by dirigibleman at 7:05 PM on October 20, 2012
I feel like it needs to be stated for the record that a woman who says she is "not voting with her vagina", implying that any woman who differs from her opinion is doing so, is decidedly not feminist no matter what sounds come out of her mouth.
You want to convince people that your candidate is good for women across the country? Try being less of a misogynist shit.
posted by Phire at 7:12 PM on October 20, 2012 [22 favorites]
You want to convince people that your candidate is good for women across the country? Try being less of a misogynist shit.
posted by Phire at 7:12 PM on October 20, 2012 [22 favorites]
There'll possibly be a few Americans voting with their feet.
posted by de at 7:37 PM on October 20, 2012
posted by de at 7:37 PM on October 20, 2012
I feel like it needs to be stated for the record that a woman who says she is "not voting with her vagina", implying that any woman who differs from her opinion is doing so, is decidedly not feminist no matter what sounds come out of her mouth.
And any person who follows that with saying she's, instead, voting with her wallet, is either ignorant about or purposefully misconstruing how, exactly, vagina-related issues are also wallet-related issues. How blind does one have to be, to fail to see the connection between contraception, abortion, equal pay, and economics?
The worst part with the Republican party waging their war on women, I think, is the extent to which their tactics are just downright insulting to women.
posted by meese at 7:42 PM on October 20, 2012 [13 favorites]
And any person who follows that with saying she's, instead, voting with her wallet, is either ignorant about or purposefully misconstruing how, exactly, vagina-related issues are also wallet-related issues. How blind does one have to be, to fail to see the connection between contraception, abortion, equal pay, and economics?
The worst part with the Republican party waging their war on women, I think, is the extent to which their tactics are just downright insulting to women.
posted by meese at 7:42 PM on October 20, 2012 [13 favorites]
Megan McCain isn't going to vote with her vagina? How does that work anatomically? Can she leave it at home like a wallet? I asked a lesbian friend and she told me she doesn't vote with her vagina because it doesn't like to go to the poles.
posted by humanfont at 7:46 PM on October 20, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 7:46 PM on October 20, 2012 [5 favorites]
I wonder if Ms. McCain can leave her vagina at home if she thinks it's gonna get her into trouble. Or if she ever gets drunk at a party, loses it, and then has to buy it back from the guy that's selling it on the street.
posted by palomar at 8:30 PM on October 20, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by palomar at 8:30 PM on October 20, 2012 [4 favorites]
Wow, that Iran stuff would be huge, White House "denial" or not. NYT doesn't make a lot of front page mistakes.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:44 PM on October 20, 2012
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:44 PM on October 20, 2012
"Governor Romney supports a federal marriage amendment to the Constitution that defines marriage as an institution between a man and a woman. Governor Romney also believes, consistent with the 10th Amendment, that it should be left to states to decide whether to grant same-sex couples certain benefits, such as hospital visitation rights and the ability to adopt children. I referred to the Tenth Amendment only when speaking about these kinds of benefits – not marriage."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:50 PM on October 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:50 PM on October 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
Bait and switch like the pre-existing conditions lie in the first debate. That Buzzfeed story brings to mind this Daniel Larison quote: “Because everyone recognizes Romney is a phony, you can never be sure who he’s betraying at any particular moment.”
posted by Bokmakierie at 9:46 PM on October 20, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by Bokmakierie at 9:46 PM on October 20, 2012 [7 favorites]
I suppose there's better things to do on a Saturday night than looking at poll numbers, but there's probably activities that are much worse.
So I was pointed to this page at Charlie Cook's site which contains the latest poll data. What makes this page a bit more interesting than the thousands of other pages with polls is that it supposedly has information leaked from the internal polls from the two campaigns. Look at "Battleground States" and then look for the column titled "D/R Pollster Characterization".
It's vaguely reassuring but I'm not sure how seriously I should take this data. I assume Cook would get leaks but it seems like an excellent way for a campaign to spread misinformation.
And I kinda want this Obama as Mao t-shirt being sold in Beijing. But I could never wear it in public where I live since I would be rapidly surrounded by teabaggers who would either chant "One of us! One of us!" or they would take cell phone pics and post it as "Here's the proof! We knew it all along!"
posted by honestcoyote at 10:33 PM on October 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
So I was pointed to this page at Charlie Cook's site which contains the latest poll data. What makes this page a bit more interesting than the thousands of other pages with polls is that it supposedly has information leaked from the internal polls from the two campaigns. Look at "Battleground States" and then look for the column titled "D/R Pollster Characterization".
It's vaguely reassuring but I'm not sure how seriously I should take this data. I assume Cook would get leaks but it seems like an excellent way for a campaign to spread misinformation.
And I kinda want this Obama as Mao t-shirt being sold in Beijing. But I could never wear it in public where I live since I would be rapidly surrounded by teabaggers who would either chant "One of us! One of us!" or they would take cell phone pics and post it as "Here's the proof! We knew it all along!"
posted by honestcoyote at 10:33 PM on October 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
Just filled out my absentee here in Iowa. Feels good, man! Just decided to stay in IA another year-ish and I don't want Steve King embarassing me as a rep. And the judicial retention stuff is easy: who is Bob Vander Plaats railing against? Dude's been trying to toss out all of the judges that paved the way for same-sex marriage in IA. Who was appointed by Branstad? Ol' Jowlystache's judgement isn't exactly trustworthy.
Also, MS Office's spellcheck autocorrects "Vander Plaats" to "underpants". So there's that.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:46 PM on October 20, 2012 [6 favorites]
Also, MS Office's spellcheck autocorrects "Vander Plaats" to "underpants". So there's that.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:46 PM on October 20, 2012 [6 favorites]
Wow, that Iran stuff would be huge, White House "denial" or not. NYT doesn't make a lot of front page mistakes.
Strangely, I just happened to catch the 10pm local news on the Fox station and they lead with this story.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:01 PM on October 20, 2012
Strangely, I just happened to catch the 10pm local news on the Fox station and they lead with this story.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:01 PM on October 20, 2012
Fascinating who bubbles to the top in the US -- anywhere really, but the US takes the cake.
Queen Ann's going to love fussing around the White House. She's no doubt planning deep blue hydrangeas for along the front; a dark horse on the green. Ann may defer to her husband on anything and everything, but never the decor, and never the colour schemes. Ann wouldn't know feminism if it punched her lights out; and if Ann doesn't get feminism, King Robme hasn't a hope in hell. They've not raised a daughter, and they're totally unexposed to modern lifestyles.
Take a look at this picture: Who decided the colours? It's wall to wall boys in blue, and brides, with fairly reasonable family compliance. Grandad's front and centre, and if I had a dollar for everytime he's uttered: "You know what your mother's like, just appease her", I reckon I'd have a few mill of my own.
Just fascinating. There's every chance Romney's oblivious to a domineering matriarchal op right under his own roof. Good thing she won't influence policy -- like hell, she won't.
Actually, it's a damned shame Ben isn't openly gay.
posted by de at 11:03 PM on October 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
Queen Ann's going to love fussing around the White House. She's no doubt planning deep blue hydrangeas for along the front; a dark horse on the green. Ann may defer to her husband on anything and everything, but never the decor, and never the colour schemes. Ann wouldn't know feminism if it punched her lights out; and if Ann doesn't get feminism, King Robme hasn't a hope in hell. They've not raised a daughter, and they're totally unexposed to modern lifestyles.
Take a look at this picture: Who decided the colours? It's wall to wall boys in blue, and brides, with fairly reasonable family compliance. Grandad's front and centre, and if I had a dollar for everytime he's uttered: "You know what your mother's like, just appease her", I reckon I'd have a few mill of my own.
Just fascinating. There's every chance Romney's oblivious to a domineering matriarchal op right under his own roof. Good thing she won't influence policy -- like hell, she won't.
Actually, it's a damned shame Ben isn't openly gay.
posted by de at 11:03 PM on October 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
Real Americans vote with their t'aints.
posted by homunculus at 11:12 PM on October 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 11:12 PM on October 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
Assuming wikipedia is accurate, Ann began dating Mitt at 15, informally agreed to marriage at 16, converted to Mormonism at 17 while he was away being a missionary in France, and began attending BYU at 18. This is someone deeply steeped in the patriarchy, who has never known anything else in her entire life. I can't imagine that the LDS Church in 1966 when she decided to convert was the slightest bit welcoming to the idea of a woman having her own ideas; I'm not sure they believe that in 2012 either but I'm sure they at least try to downplay it slightly in their glossy pamphlets as a nod to modernism. No, this is a woman who honestly believes that celibacy is the answer to teen pregnancy, that young women just need to hold out until they find a man who can take care of them, someone who hasn't the slightest idea what it feels like to be independent and have your own thoughts, your own career, your own reproductive choices.
posted by Rhomboid at 11:39 PM on October 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Rhomboid at 11:39 PM on October 20, 2012 [3 favorites]
someone who hasn't the slightest idea what it feels like to be independent and have your own thoughts, your own career, your own reproductive choices
You know, that's not necessarily true at all, except for the part about the career. Women who grow up in highly traditional, highly patriarchal societies, and live traditional lives that mostly conform with the visible contours of social convention don't become incapable of independent thought. You're probably right insofar as those situations make it somewhat harder to think independently, but there are plenty of women who do not openly rebel, and yet are perfectly capable of having their own thoughts, and asserting their own reproductive choices.
posted by bardophile at 11:47 PM on October 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
You know, that's not necessarily true at all, except for the part about the career. Women who grow up in highly traditional, highly patriarchal societies, and live traditional lives that mostly conform with the visible contours of social convention don't become incapable of independent thought. You're probably right insofar as those situations make it somewhat harder to think independently, but there are plenty of women who do not openly rebel, and yet are perfectly capable of having their own thoughts, and asserting their own reproductive choices.
posted by bardophile at 11:47 PM on October 20, 2012 [2 favorites]
Oh Undecided, My Undecided
posted by the man of twists and turns at 2:30 AM on October 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
It’s difficult to absorb every sound bite, every minutiae of the campaign trail, every talking head. I get that. The majority of us have but a few minutes of each day to allow ourselves to be invaded by the presidential campaign. That is normal. Few of us go beyond the nightly news programs and front page of the newspaper. Preamble aside, how can you still be undecided? No, seriously.An Excerpt From “How to Rig an Election: The G.O.P. aims to paint the country red”
Such blockbuster allegations are perhaps unsurprising given the group of Beltway insiders who helped to pass HAVA. One central player was former Republican representative Bob Ney of Ohio, sentenced in 2006 to thirty months in prison for crimes connected with disgraced lobbyist Jack Abramoff—whose firm was paid at least $275,000 by Diebold.A Tally Of Newspaper Endorsements For President
HAVA’s impact has been huge, accelerating a deterioration of our electoral system that most Americans have yet to recognize, let alone understand. We are literally losing our ballot—the key physical proof of our power as citizens.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 2:30 AM on October 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
The Bush administration sure had a knack for truly evil legislation.
posted by fleacircus at 2:41 AM on October 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by fleacircus at 2:41 AM on October 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
I am planning to write a big "Why I'm Voting for Obama" Facebook post for the day before the election and have been considering what I'm going to say. The agenda is partially to contribute one reasonable voice to the atmosphere, and the audience is really my conservative relatives. I've been trying to think about what I'm going to say - three or four big points - and I want to be sure they aren't just points about how scary Romney is (that might be a separate post) but what a good, smart choice Obama is.
Here are some in bullet points:
Economy
* The economy under Obama performed better than most European economies by prioritising growth over austerity through the stimulus package.
* Reversed the biggest economic crisis since the Great Depression. Mitt Romney is a proponent of the same policies of deregulation and trickle-down economics that led to the crisis.
*S&P cites the Bush tax cuts along with the insistence of the Republican majority in the House of Reps not to increase revenuses as the reason for downgrading the long-term credit rating for the U.S. economy for the first time in history. Obama wants to let the Bush tax cuts expire, thus reducing the deficit.
* Many Nobel prize winners and economists support Obama. His investments in renewable energy and research are helping the American economy remain competitive. Romney would cut taxes for the top incomes and refuses to give specifics on how he'll make up for this shortfall. If you can't show how you'll pay for it, you can't get a loan let alone become President of the U.S.A.
* Reforming healthcare has economic benefits.
* Democrats in the White House have consistently created more jobs than Republicans since Franklin Roosevelt.
Foreign policy
*Obama disengaged from Iraq
* Will be disengaging from Afghanistan ending the longest war in U.S. history
* Reduced the influence of al-Qaida, culminating in the death of OBL.
*Is using the diplomatic influence of the U.S. to promote stability in Europe, a major trading partner of the U.S., during the economic crisis. Romney's aggressive posturing against China and Libya would have only succeed in alienating another major trading partner of the US and reducing the extant pro-American sentiment in Libya, as shown by Libyans disarming militias after the death of the American ambassador.
Moral issues
* A second term for Obama will probably allow him to make new appointments and rebalance the Supreme Court after the appointments of G. W. Bush. The Court already has a Republican majority - if Romney wins and the Court becomes even more consistently partisan, one of the most important checks and balances in U.S, politics will become toothless.
* Obama respects more the rights of women, minorities and the "wall of separation between church and state". An inclusive society is a thriving, smarter, juster, more humane, richer society.
* Obama's behaviour on the campaign trail has been more honest compared to Romney's adopting new positions according to the audience and insisting on not showing his tax returns or showing the specifics of his tax plan.
* Obama's party is not not associated with people who try to restrict the right of Americans to vote.
Or you could post this video.
posted by ersatz at 4:46 AM on October 21, 2012 [29 favorites]
Here are some in bullet points:
Economy
* The economy under Obama performed better than most European economies by prioritising growth over austerity through the stimulus package.
* Reversed the biggest economic crisis since the Great Depression. Mitt Romney is a proponent of the same policies of deregulation and trickle-down economics that led to the crisis.
*S&P cites the Bush tax cuts along with the insistence of the Republican majority in the House of Reps not to increase revenuses as the reason for downgrading the long-term credit rating for the U.S. economy for the first time in history. Obama wants to let the Bush tax cuts expire, thus reducing the deficit.
* Many Nobel prize winners and economists support Obama. His investments in renewable energy and research are helping the American economy remain competitive. Romney would cut taxes for the top incomes and refuses to give specifics on how he'll make up for this shortfall. If you can't show how you'll pay for it, you can't get a loan let alone become President of the U.S.A.
* Reforming healthcare has economic benefits.
* Democrats in the White House have consistently created more jobs than Republicans since Franklin Roosevelt.
Foreign policy
*Obama disengaged from Iraq
* Will be disengaging from Afghanistan ending the longest war in U.S. history
* Reduced the influence of al-Qaida, culminating in the death of OBL.
*Is using the diplomatic influence of the U.S. to promote stability in Europe, a major trading partner of the U.S., during the economic crisis. Romney's aggressive posturing against China and Libya would have only succeed in alienating another major trading partner of the US and reducing the extant pro-American sentiment in Libya, as shown by Libyans disarming militias after the death of the American ambassador.
Moral issues
* A second term for Obama will probably allow him to make new appointments and rebalance the Supreme Court after the appointments of G. W. Bush. The Court already has a Republican majority - if Romney wins and the Court becomes even more consistently partisan, one of the most important checks and balances in U.S, politics will become toothless.
* Obama respects more the rights of women, minorities and the "wall of separation between church and state". An inclusive society is a thriving, smarter, juster, more humane, richer society.
* Obama's behaviour on the campaign trail has been more honest compared to Romney's adopting new positions according to the audience and insisting on not showing his tax returns or showing the specifics of his tax plan.
* Obama's party is not not associated with people who try to restrict the right of Americans to vote.
Or you could post this video.
posted by ersatz at 4:46 AM on October 21, 2012 [29 favorites]
Mitt Romney's Easy Five-Step Approach to Foreign Policy - excellent
posted by madamjujujive at 6:09 AM on October 21, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by madamjujujive at 6:09 AM on October 21, 2012 [3 favorites]
This one seems quite well-timed, given the subject of the next debate.
posted by bardophile at 6:24 AM on October 21, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by bardophile at 6:24 AM on October 21, 2012 [3 favorites]
The Moral and Political Philosophy of Mitt Romney
(1) Maximax: welfarist social welfare function that accords absolute priority to increasing the single best-off individual's welfare.posted by the man of twists and turns at 6:35 AM on October 21, 2012
From Bokmakierie's New York Mag link
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:51 AM on October 21, 2012 [3 favorites]
“What we did see in a second Clinton term is likely to be what happens in a second Obama term. Where there will be a greater effort to ‘get’ Obama,” Larison said. Chait agreed: “There will be a significant number of scandals, pseudo-scandals, and things that fall between those categories. And I think there will be a significant move by parts of the Republican caucus to impeach.”Well fuck me. "Too bad if the electorate decides they want another 4 years of Obama-- we, The Republican Party, don't give a shit as to what those whiny bitches want-- We will not allow Obama to be President."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:51 AM on October 21, 2012 [3 favorites]
Great, just great. RICHMOND, Va. (WTVR) – The State Board Of Elections says it will not ask Virginia’s Attorney General to investigate the case of a Republican Party contract worker, accused of throwing voter registration forms in the trash.
Is there any way this decision could be taken out of her hands? Because this smells like bullshit.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:13 AM on October 21, 2012 [16 favorites]
The attorney general says he only looks into election issues after a request from the State Board of Elections.I don't even understand that statement. This guy registered voters-- it doesn't matter what party they were affiliated with-- and then tossed the forms. How is that not illegal? I don't give a rat's ass, Brandi, whether you think there is any political motivation. What have you got to lose by investigating him?
“There’s no way to tell by party when people fill out these forms, what party they’re affiliated with, so I don’t think there’s any political motivation,” Virginia Registrar Brandi Lilly said Friday.
Is there any way this decision could be taken out of her hands? Because this smells like bullshit.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:13 AM on October 21, 2012 [16 favorites]
Romney thinks that nobody dies at home due to a lack of health insurance because according to him everyone can walk in and get taken care of at the emergency room. Now New Hampshire Republican congressman Frank Guinta thinks we should change that.
I swear, I think the Republican party candidates are working overtime to make Romney look good by comparison.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:26 AM on October 21, 2012 [3 favorites]
At a recent debate recorded by ThinkProgress’s Scott Keyes, Guinta told a moderator that it “shouldn’t be the case,” that 25 year-olds without insurance can get health care at the emergency room: "If you guy purchase a good or service, you’re supposed to pay for it. Yes, if you are 25 years old and you are choosing not to purchase insurance with the expectation of trying to get it free from the ER at Memorial, that shouldn’t be the case.See how Moderate Romney is? At least he isn't advocating that ERs kick your uninsured ass out on the street.
I swear, I think the Republican party candidates are working overtime to make Romney look good by comparison.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:26 AM on October 21, 2012 [3 favorites]
“There’s no way to tell by party when people fill out these forms, what party they’re affiliated with, so I don’t think there’s any political motivation,” Virginia Registrar Brandi Lilly said Friday.
Seriously!? The Colorado forms have checkboxes to indicate the voter is Democrat, Republican, Unaffiliated etc. I would have presumed VA forms have the same. And that notwithstanding you know normally which way the voter swings when you register them.
That said, I really hope that this was all laziness on behalf of the Republican employees and therefore they've been throwing out their own supporters' forms.
posted by NailsTheCat at 7:57 AM on October 21, 2012
Seriously!? The Colorado forms have checkboxes to indicate the voter is Democrat, Republican, Unaffiliated etc. I would have presumed VA forms have the same. And that notwithstanding you know normally which way the voter swings when you register them.
That said, I really hope that this was all laziness on behalf of the Republican employees and therefore they've been throwing out their own supporters' forms.
posted by NailsTheCat at 7:57 AM on October 21, 2012
In Virginia, we don't register by party.
That said, how incredibly fucking stupid do you have to be not to realize that destroying/disposing of registration forms is a blatantly political act? How hard would it be for the perpetrator to notice if the applicant was black or brown or young? And, even if it wasn't an attack on one particular party, it was deliberate disenfranchisement against all voters.
This is not the government we deserve.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 8:12 AM on October 21, 2012 [4 favorites]
That said, how incredibly fucking stupid do you have to be not to realize that destroying/disposing of registration forms is a blatantly political act? How hard would it be for the perpetrator to notice if the applicant was black or brown or young? And, even if it wasn't an attack on one particular party, it was deliberate disenfranchisement against all voters.
This is not the government we deserve.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 8:12 AM on October 21, 2012 [4 favorites]
“There’s no way to tell by party when people fill out these forms, what party they’re affiliated with, so I don’t think there’s any political motivation,”
She doesn't seem to realize that "not partisan" is not a synonym for "apolitical." And this is me giving her a huge benefit of the doubt, and also generously assuming that the guy throwing out the forms wasn't doing this on the basis of whether the person registering appeared to be non-white, poor, etc.
posted by bardophile at 8:43 AM on October 21, 2012 [1 favorite]
She doesn't seem to realize that "not partisan" is not a synonym for "apolitical." And this is me giving her a huge benefit of the doubt, and also generously assuming that the guy throwing out the forms wasn't doing this on the basis of whether the person registering appeared to be non-white, poor, etc.
posted by bardophile at 8:43 AM on October 21, 2012 [1 favorite]
how incredibly fucking stupid do you have to be not to realize that destroying/disposing of registration forms is a blatantly political act?
Blatantly stupid enough to be a Republican, I guess.
posted by spitbull at 8:51 AM on October 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
Blatantly stupid enough to be a Republican, I guess.
posted by spitbull at 8:51 AM on October 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
One of the top priorities that Obama has to address in a second term is voter disenfranchisement. Holder needs to investigate potential criminality issues that the states won't. Standards of review have to be established for electronic voting. To me, this is not an issue that can be left to the states without any oversight.
This election is close enough that vote tampering, voter intimidation and various other tricks and illegalities may be determinative. It's truly disturbing.
posted by madamjujujive at 8:59 AM on October 21, 2012 [16 favorites]
This election is close enough that vote tampering, voter intimidation and various other tricks and illegalities may be determinative. It's truly disturbing.
posted by madamjujujive at 8:59 AM on October 21, 2012 [16 favorites]
It's illegal to destroy voter registration forms regardless of motivation. But, as usual, Republicans are above the law.
posted by dirigibleman at 9:04 AM on October 21, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by dirigibleman at 9:04 AM on October 21, 2012 [8 favorites]
You know, for years I've sort of reflexively mocked Tom Hanks but he's sort of stole his way back into my heart with his political stuff.
posted by angrycat at 9:46 AM on October 21, 2012
posted by angrycat at 9:46 AM on October 21, 2012
Key & Peele did a much funnier summary of the town hall debate.
'You made it sound like finding a qualified woman is like tracking down a sasquatch while riding on the back of a unicorn reading the specifics of your tax plan.'
posted by winna at 10:07 AM on October 21, 2012 [8 favorites]
'You made it sound like finding a qualified woman is like tracking down a sasquatch while riding on the back of a unicorn reading the specifics of your tax plan.'
posted by winna at 10:07 AM on October 21, 2012 [8 favorites]
I try to be apolitical on facebook, but have decided to start posting every new development on the Virginia registration dumping.
posted by Measured Out my Life in Coffeespoons at 10:19 AM on October 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Measured Out my Life in Coffeespoons at 10:19 AM on October 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
The State Board Of Elections says it will not ask Virginia’s Attorney General to investigate the case of a Republican Party contract worker, accused of throwing voter registration forms in the trash.
This is infuriating. Virginia voters: Call the Virginia State Board of Elections at (800) 552-9745 and complain. It's the weekend, so leave a message. And call again tomorrow.
posted by raztaj at 10:22 AM on October 21, 2012 [8 favorites]
This is infuriating. Virginia voters: Call the Virginia State Board of Elections at (800) 552-9745 and complain. It's the weekend, so leave a message. And call again tomorrow.
posted by raztaj at 10:22 AM on October 21, 2012 [8 favorites]
This is infuriating. Virginia voters: Call the Virginia State Board of Elections at (800) 552-9745 and complain. It's the weekend, so leave a message. And call again tomorrow.
Called, and am encouraging others to do the same.
posted by Measured Out my Life in Coffeespoons at 11:02 AM on October 21, 2012 [1 favorite]
Called, and am encouraging others to do the same.
posted by Measured Out my Life in Coffeespoons at 11:02 AM on October 21, 2012 [1 favorite]
NBC/WSJ Poll: Presidential Contest Now Tied.
Republicans Say Momentum Is On Romney's Side In New Polls.
posted by ericb at 11:23 AM on October 21, 2012
Republicans Say Momentum Is On Romney's Side In New Polls.
posted by ericb at 11:23 AM on October 21, 2012
Marco Rubio: Equal Pay Law 'Nothing But An Effort To Help Trial Lawyers'.
posted by ericb at 11:24 AM on October 21, 2012
posted by ericb at 11:24 AM on October 21, 2012
Dick Durbin: Darrell Issa Libya Document Dump 'Unconscionable'.
posted by ericb at 11:25 AM on October 21, 2012
posted by ericb at 11:25 AM on October 21, 2012
This is not news, but worth reviewing: the economy does better under Democratic administrations.
Can a businessman help the economy? For presidents, the answer has been no.
Wall St. May Not Cheer, but Obama’s Been Good for Stocks
posted by Bokmakierie at 11:28 AM on October 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
Can a businessman help the economy? For presidents, the answer has been no.
Wall St. May Not Cheer, but Obama’s Been Good for Stocks
posted by Bokmakierie at 11:28 AM on October 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
Fox Admits Libya Attack May Have Been Caused By Anti-Muslim Video.
posted by ericb at 11:30 AM on October 21, 2012
posted by ericb at 11:30 AM on October 21, 2012
Sorry if this has been said upthread, but what swing states would Romney need if he loses Ohio?
posted by angrycat at 1:00 PM on October 21, 2012
posted by angrycat at 1:00 PM on October 21, 2012
He would need CO, NV, NH, FL, VA and either IA or another one from the blue column like WI or PA. NH is not that important because it's not necessary either for Obama or for Romney. For instance if Romney won IA and all the rest but lost NH, it would be a tie and the house would give it to him. Similarly if a state like WI or PA changed hands, NH wouldn't be needed, but if that was the case, it would show a significant wave of support for Romney that would give him NH anyway. See here for wacky scenarios.
Basically, the easiest way to the presidency for Obama is keeping OH and either IA, NV or CO. VA and FL seem to be trending a bit more red now (VA less so) and they aren't necessary per se even though carrying them would look better.
posted by ersatz at 1:25 PM on October 21, 2012
Basically, the easiest way to the presidency for Obama is keeping OH and either IA, NV or CO. VA and FL seem to be trending a bit more red now (VA less so) and they aren't necessary per se even though carrying them would look better.
posted by ersatz at 1:25 PM on October 21, 2012
the permutations are tricky, but I want to say something like FL, VA, WI and IA might do it. If he loses FL and OH I really don't see any path for him. You can play around with the electoral votes on places like this to get a somewhat good sense of who needs what
posted by edgeways at 1:28 PM on October 21, 2012
posted by edgeways at 1:28 PM on October 21, 2012
for instance.. Obama could lose FL, OH and VA and still win if he kept CO, IA, WI and NH
posted by edgeways at 1:30 PM on October 21, 2012
posted by edgeways at 1:30 PM on October 21, 2012
Sorry, last post for awhile: the only viable path to a tie (which would be essentially a loss, but still at least be historically interesting) is for O to lose OH, FL, IA, WI and win CO, VA and NH
posted by edgeways at 1:33 PM on October 21, 2012
posted by edgeways at 1:33 PM on October 21, 2012
What Google search can tell us about the election
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:38 PM on October 21, 2012
Some of what we learn is pretty silly. Every month, about 5,000 people ask Google about Mitt Romney’s underwear choice (devout Mormons wear temple garments). But some of what we learn is disturbing. On Election Day in 2008, roughly 1 in 100 searches that included “Obama” also included “KKK” or “nigger.”No surprise that "McCain life expectancy" increased when he announced Palin was his running mate and again increased after her Katie Couric interview.
Our thoughts are often superficial. “Paul Ryan shirtless” is currently Googled 9 times more often than “Paul Ryan budget.” Don’t ask me why, but “Paul Ryan shirtless” is Googled more frequently in blue states than in red. When we search for “Michelle Obama,” we include the word “ugly” three times as often as the word “beautiful.”
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:38 PM on October 21, 2012
VA and FL seem to be trending a bit more red now (VA less so) and they aren't necessary per se even though carrying them would look better.
But I forgot to mention that if Obama carries either, then Romney is in deep trouble. In other words, Obama still has more ways to win the presidency because compared to the map of Kerry or Gore, he's still mostly playing offense despite the recent polling downturn.
On preview: If Obama carries WI, OH and NH it's still a tie.
posted by ersatz at 1:38 PM on October 21, 2012
But I forgot to mention that if Obama carries either, then Romney is in deep trouble. In other words, Obama still has more ways to win the presidency because compared to the map of Kerry or Gore, he's still mostly playing offense despite the recent polling downturn.
On preview: If Obama carries WI, OH and NH it's still a tie.
posted by ersatz at 1:38 PM on October 21, 2012
If ballots were bullets: If Americans cared as much about their voting rights as their gun rights, they'd be up in arms right now
posted by homunculus at 2:02 PM on October 21, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 2:02 PM on October 21, 2012 [3 favorites]
How hard would it be for the perpetrator to notice if the applicant was black or brown or young?
Or where they lived...
posted by Mental Wimp at 2:10 PM on October 21, 2012 [1 favorite]
Or where they lived...
posted by Mental Wimp at 2:10 PM on October 21, 2012 [1 favorite]
Benny Andajetz: "That said, how incredibly fucking stupid do you have to be not to realize that destroying/disposing of registration forms is a blatantly political act? How hard would it be for the perpetrator to notice if the applicant was black or brown or young? And, even if it wasn't an attack on one particular party, it was deliberate disenfranchisement against all voters."
If you are a registered voter in Virginia, please please please do not let this incident stand! Contact your representative and make a big stink. I would bet dollars to donuts that there's a lot more going on that you just haven't found out about.
In 2000, Republicans used similar tactics as they are trying to use now to exclude minorities from voting, but the "hanging chad" controversy is all anyone actually remembers. Floridians looked like fools in the 2000 Presidential election, which a lot of us were, but not because we didn't know how to vote. We just didn't know that the whole system was rigged from the beginning.
The Florida election process in 2000 was a fiasco, and though it's easy to just write it off as a clusterfuck, the deeper you dig, the more it seems like a calculated strategy was behind it all, one that took advantage of the inherent weaknesses in the system to rig an entire Presidential election.
Katherine Harris was our Secretary of State at the time. Harris won her original seat in the Florida senate by throwing money at it; her family was extremely wealthy but she was also financially backed by a company known as Riscorp. Riscorp was subsequently found guilty of illegally donating hundreds of thousands of dollars to political candidates including (surprise surprise) Harris herself (her chief of staff, Dan Berger, now a political commentator on Fox news, was a lobbyist who counted Riscorp among his clients).
After Riscorp's CEO went to jail for the illegal campaign donations in 1998 (he took a plea because that was the least of the charges against him), it emerged that Harris had repeatedly exercised her political influence on Riscorp's behalf. Harris was in a lot of hot water when Jeb Bush, W's little brother, took office as Governor, and suddenly talk of an investigation just went away.
The two are pretty chummy when the 2000 Presidential election comes around, and they are the ones making sure every vote gets counted. In Florida, there's a system where felons are stricken from the eligible voters' list, which was intended to keep voter fraud from occurring.
In 2000, hundreds of people were kept from voting because they were on list of felons and ineligible to vote. If you are saying to yourself, 'So what? Felons shouldn't be able to vote', you are reacting as most people would, which is supposedly why it took so long to discover that, due to a relaxation of standards passed down from on high, many of the people on the list were not felons. So many variations were allowed when checking for "matches" that if you only shared part of a name with a felon, you could be denied the right to vote.
Well, if you were black, that is. According to the Commission appointed to investigate:
You can check out the links to read more about what went wrong, but it's important to note that there were numerous errors in the system that were documented at least 2 years prior to the 2000 election, but no one in the government--certainly not Jeb Bush, who ran on a platform of ending Affirmative Action!--was motivated to correct them, because the errors worked in Republicans' favor.
Harris was pivotal in delaying, denying and generally sabotaging the recount process. When the shit hit the fan, Jeb Bush threw her right under the bus without a qualm, and she denied having any agency in the election as Secretary of the State, lying with her pants on fire.
Harris gets elected to Congress as her reward for handing the election to the Republicans. Investigations were done and the findings eventually revealed, but the damage was already done.
And hey, no one really suffered any consequences other than the disenfranchised voters. Well, and the United States as a whole. Because we ended up with W as President.
No wonder the Republicans are pulling this crap again. It worked for them so well the last time, after all.
posted by misha at 2:39 PM on October 21, 2012 [21 favorites]
If you are a registered voter in Virginia, please please please do not let this incident stand! Contact your representative and make a big stink. I would bet dollars to donuts that there's a lot more going on that you just haven't found out about.
In 2000, Republicans used similar tactics as they are trying to use now to exclude minorities from voting, but the "hanging chad" controversy is all anyone actually remembers. Floridians looked like fools in the 2000 Presidential election, which a lot of us were, but not because we didn't know how to vote. We just didn't know that the whole system was rigged from the beginning.
The Florida election process in 2000 was a fiasco, and though it's easy to just write it off as a clusterfuck, the deeper you dig, the more it seems like a calculated strategy was behind it all, one that took advantage of the inherent weaknesses in the system to rig an entire Presidential election.
Katherine Harris was our Secretary of State at the time. Harris won her original seat in the Florida senate by throwing money at it; her family was extremely wealthy but she was also financially backed by a company known as Riscorp. Riscorp was subsequently found guilty of illegally donating hundreds of thousands of dollars to political candidates including (surprise surprise) Harris herself (her chief of staff, Dan Berger, now a political commentator on Fox news, was a lobbyist who counted Riscorp among his clients).
After Riscorp's CEO went to jail for the illegal campaign donations in 1998 (he took a plea because that was the least of the charges against him), it emerged that Harris had repeatedly exercised her political influence on Riscorp's behalf. Harris was in a lot of hot water when Jeb Bush, W's little brother, took office as Governor, and suddenly talk of an investigation just went away.
The two are pretty chummy when the 2000 Presidential election comes around, and they are the ones making sure every vote gets counted. In Florida, there's a system where felons are stricken from the eligible voters' list, which was intended to keep voter fraud from occurring.
In 2000, hundreds of people were kept from voting because they were on list of felons and ineligible to vote. If you are saying to yourself, 'So what? Felons shouldn't be able to vote', you are reacting as most people would, which is supposedly why it took so long to discover that, due to a relaxation of standards passed down from on high, many of the people on the list were not felons. So many variations were allowed when checking for "matches" that if you only shared part of a name with a felon, you could be denied the right to vote.
Well, if you were black, that is. According to the Commission appointed to investigate:
African American voters were placed on purge lists more often and more erroneously than Hispanic or white voters. For instance, in the state’s largest county, Miami-Dade, more than 65 percent of the names on the purge list were African Americans, who represented only 20.4 percent of the population. Hispanics were 57.4 percent of the population, but only 16.6 percent of the purge list; whites were 77.6 percent of the population but 17.6 percent of those purged.The Commission also unequivocally stated that, "The Commission’s findings make one thing clear: widespread voter disenfranchisement—not the dead-heat contest—was the extraordinary feature in the Florida election."
You can check out the links to read more about what went wrong, but it's important to note that there were numerous errors in the system that were documented at least 2 years prior to the 2000 election, but no one in the government--certainly not Jeb Bush, who ran on a platform of ending Affirmative Action!--was motivated to correct them, because the errors worked in Republicans' favor.
Harris was pivotal in delaying, denying and generally sabotaging the recount process. When the shit hit the fan, Jeb Bush threw her right under the bus without a qualm, and she denied having any agency in the election as Secretary of the State, lying with her pants on fire.
Harris gets elected to Congress as her reward for handing the election to the Republicans. Investigations were done and the findings eventually revealed, but the damage was already done.
And hey, no one really suffered any consequences other than the disenfranchised voters. Well, and the United States as a whole. Because we ended up with W as President.
No wonder the Republicans are pulling this crap again. It worked for them so well the last time, after all.
posted by misha at 2:39 PM on October 21, 2012 [21 favorites]
Fox Baselessly Suggests Obama ‘Traded’ American Lives To Appease Libya
posted by homunculus at 3:27 PM on October 21, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 3:27 PM on October 21, 2012 [1 favorite]
Fox Baselessly Suggests Obama ‘Traded’ American Lives To Appease Libya I wonder if this is sort of a prelude to this coming week's debate.
posted by angrycat at 4:36 PM on October 21, 2012
posted by angrycat at 4:36 PM on October 21, 2012
> No wonder the Republicans are pulling this crap again. It worked for them so well the last time, after all.
I was following one of our free weekly's endorsement list, and they had a decent sell on the moderate republican candidate for secretary of state until I got to the line where they said "Some of his statements about the security of Oregon’s vote-by-mail system give us pause." Fuck that guy. He may be campaigning as a moderate, but he's either dogwhistling for GOP support, or sincerely believes that.
Oregon's Vote by Mail system fucking works. I feel like there is just too much money being made in places like Ohio and Florida on both sides trying to push for computerized ballot boxes and multi million dollar contracts and so on to switch to it, besides the obvious knowledge that the GOP wants low voter turnouts. But seriously, states are wasting millions of dollars on systems that voting by mail could replace for much less.
We had 85% turn out in 2008, with an average cost of $2.22 a voter ($4.7 million).
posted by mrzarquon at 4:40 PM on October 21, 2012 [11 favorites]
I was following one of our free weekly's endorsement list, and they had a decent sell on the moderate republican candidate for secretary of state until I got to the line where they said "Some of his statements about the security of Oregon’s vote-by-mail system give us pause." Fuck that guy. He may be campaigning as a moderate, but he's either dogwhistling for GOP support, or sincerely believes that.
Oregon's Vote by Mail system fucking works. I feel like there is just too much money being made in places like Ohio and Florida on both sides trying to push for computerized ballot boxes and multi million dollar contracts and so on to switch to it, besides the obvious knowledge that the GOP wants low voter turnouts. But seriously, states are wasting millions of dollars on systems that voting by mail could replace for much less.
We had 85% turn out in 2008, with an average cost of $2.22 a voter ($4.7 million).
posted by mrzarquon at 4:40 PM on October 21, 2012 [11 favorites]
Brace yourselves - mefi fave and Dilbert creator Scott Adams is backing Romney
A key factor in his decision, wrote cartoonist Scott Adams, is what he described as President Barack Obama’s role in a ruling in federal court to send to prison a California man who operates a medical marijuana dispensary, with a sentence between 10 years and life.
....“So while I don’t agree with Romney’s positions on most topics, I’m endorsing him for president starting today. I think we need to set a minimum standard for presidential behavior, and jailing American citizens for political gain simply has to be a firing offense no matter how awesome you might be in other ways.”
posted by madamjujujive at 5:14 PM on October 21, 2012
A key factor in his decision, wrote cartoonist Scott Adams, is what he described as President Barack Obama’s role in a ruling in federal court to send to prison a California man who operates a medical marijuana dispensary, with a sentence between 10 years and life.
....“So while I don’t agree with Romney’s positions on most topics, I’m endorsing him for president starting today. I think we need to set a minimum standard for presidential behavior, and jailing American citizens for political gain simply has to be a firing offense no matter how awesome you might be in other ways.”
posted by madamjujujive at 5:14 PM on October 21, 2012
It amuses me, that two of the highest turn out states (MN and OR) are one that still relies on the old tried and true paper ballot into the Optical scanning, and the wild Mail by vote. All that electronic voting machine crap stuck in the middle is so much complete garbage. Optical scanners, or mail in votes. What more do you need? Nothing.
posted by edgeways at 5:15 PM on October 21, 2012
posted by edgeways at 5:15 PM on October 21, 2012
Had a little tiff about Adams already mam. :)
(but yeah he remains a kinda clueless attention baby)
posted by edgeways at 5:17 PM on October 21, 2012
(but yeah he remains a kinda clueless attention baby)
posted by edgeways at 5:17 PM on October 21, 2012
thanks edgeways - how did I miss that??
posted by madamjujujive at 5:22 PM on October 21, 2012
posted by madamjujujive at 5:22 PM on October 21, 2012
nearly 3k comments to wade through makes it easy I suspect. cheers
posted by edgeways at 5:27 PM on October 21, 2012
posted by edgeways at 5:27 PM on October 21, 2012
‘Gender Gap’ Near Historic Highs (538)
If only women voted, President Obama would be on track for a landslide re-election, equaling or exceeding his margin of victory over John McCain in 2008. Mr. Obama would be an overwhelming favorite in Ohio, Florida, Virginia and most every other place that is conventionally considered a swing state. The only question would be whether he could forge ahead into traditionally red states, like Georgia, Montana and Arizona.
If only men voted, Mr. Obama would be biding his time until a crushing defeat at the hands of Mitt Romney, who might win by a similar margin to the one Ronald Reagan realized over Jimmy Carter in 1980. Only California, Illinois, Hawaii and a few states in the Northeast could be considered safely Democratic. Every other state would lean red, or would at least be a toss-up.
posted by ersatz at 5:34 PM on October 21, 2012 [5 favorites]
If only women voted, President Obama would be on track for a landslide re-election, equaling or exceeding his margin of victory over John McCain in 2008. Mr. Obama would be an overwhelming favorite in Ohio, Florida, Virginia and most every other place that is conventionally considered a swing state. The only question would be whether he could forge ahead into traditionally red states, like Georgia, Montana and Arizona.
If only men voted, Mr. Obama would be biding his time until a crushing defeat at the hands of Mitt Romney, who might win by a similar margin to the one Ronald Reagan realized over Jimmy Carter in 1980. Only California, Illinois, Hawaii and a few states in the Northeast could be considered safely Democratic. Every other state would lean red, or would at least be a toss-up.
posted by ersatz at 5:34 PM on October 21, 2012 [5 favorites]
NYT: Romney, staff challenge press corps to a beach football game
Fuckers.
Are we going to stay here for Monday's debate? I don't know if I can stand breaking up with yet another thread.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:40 PM on October 21, 2012 [3 favorites]
But on Sunday morning, Mr. Romney took a break from debate preparation to make a stop at a gridiron of a different sort — a flag football beach face-off between members of the media and members of Mr. Romney’s staff.Eight -- eight -- paragraphs in:
(Full disclosure: This reporter also played, winning the coin toss for her team, but doing little else by way of yardage accrual.)I can't wait to see what the Obama advertorial will be. I hope it's a pinball showdown!
Fuckers.
Are we going to stay here for Monday's debate? I don't know if I can stand breaking up with yet another thread.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:40 PM on October 21, 2012 [3 favorites]
I just got polled. Since I mailed my early ballot this morning, I'm not sure how I'll be classified (likely voter?), but it was interesting. There were more questions about our state senate race than the national election; I really, really hope we can keep that smug Kyl-clone Flake out of office. Carmona ain't perfect, but he's a hell of a lot better than what Arizona has been sending to Washington of late.
I really, really hoped they'd ask about the county sheriff race, but of course they didn't. I realize that isn't technical a state issue, but Arpaio certainly influences our reputation with the rest of the nation.
Next time the state poll results are published, I can say I helped build that!
posted by Superplin at 5:40 PM on October 21, 2012 [4 favorites]
I really, really hoped they'd ask about the county sheriff race, but of course they didn't. I realize that isn't technical a state issue, but Arpaio certainly influences our reputation with the rest of the nation.
Next time the state poll results are published, I can say I helped build that!
posted by Superplin at 5:40 PM on October 21, 2012 [4 favorites]
It's time the US thought about a woman president. Start off small, try an actress or celebrity. (Reagan was a hit.) How about Goldie Hawn for starters? She'd blaze a trail.
Pave the way for Ms Clinton Jr.
posted by de at 5:43 PM on October 21, 2012
Pave the way for Ms Clinton Jr.
posted by de at 5:43 PM on October 21, 2012
Continued Misinformation About Pennsylvania Photo ID Law Prompts Request For Court Intervention
Advocacy groups who won a suspension of Pennsylvania’s voter ID requirement earlier this month have filed a motion seeking to curb Pennsylvania’s dissemination of misinformation about the photo ID law.posted by Room 641-A at 5:52 PM on October 21, 2012 [3 favorites]
The motion alleges that in the wake of the court ruling that photo ID would not be required to vote Nov. 6, the state failed to inform voters of the change and instead delayed correcting information in existing ads and other materials, sent out mailings with the false indication that photo ID was required to vote, and issued new and misleading ads....
I don't really have anything against Chelsea-as-a-person, but Chelsea as someone independent of her parents seems a little flat in anything meaningful. So no, please. we can find fully qualified women without devolving into dynasties.
posted by edgeways at 5:53 PM on October 21, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by edgeways at 5:53 PM on October 21, 2012 [8 favorites]
I noted this in the early days of the mega-thread.... but now I shall note again. Why didn't Mother Jones keep the 47% video under wraps until far closer to voting day? I'm sure that had they released the video 4 or 5 days before voting begins (tomorrow, in CO) then Romney wouldn't have had time to bounce as he has. Or maybe, just maybe... someone has something else to release. But it's cutting it fine now.
Not that that would help dissuade people like the lady I met today while GOTVing who was still convinced Obama was a Muslim.
posted by NailsTheCat at 5:54 PM on October 21, 2012
Not that that would help dissuade people like the lady I met today while GOTVing who was still convinced Obama was a Muslim.
posted by NailsTheCat at 5:54 PM on October 21, 2012
> So no, please. we can find fully qualified women without devolving into dynasties.
Sure. I was just trying to be helpful.
The Republicans have folders full of suitable women.
But true. At this point your 2012 election process seems so corrupt you may as well pull a name from a hat this time around while someone works out how best to fair up your democratic voting process.
Whoever wins, the opposing side will cry "cheat" undermining any remaining respect for democratic decision making.
For a people who'd like nothing better than to see democratic elections across the Middle East and around the world ... you know.
posted by de at 6:01 PM on October 21, 2012 [1 favorite]
Sure. I was just trying to be helpful.
The Republicans have folders full of suitable women.
But true. At this point your 2012 election process seems so corrupt you may as well pull a name from a hat this time around while someone works out how best to fair up your democratic voting process.
Whoever wins, the opposing side will cry "cheat" undermining any remaining respect for democratic decision making.
For a people who'd like nothing better than to see democratic elections across the Middle East and around the world ... you know.
posted by de at 6:01 PM on October 21, 2012 [1 favorite]
It's time the US thought about a woman president.
de, I'd go for one of mefi's own - scody or miko, perhaps.
posted by madamjujujive at 6:08 PM on October 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
de, I'd go for one of mefi's own - scody or miko, perhaps.
posted by madamjujujive at 6:08 PM on October 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
Now you're talking! Pres and running mate ... let them sort who is best skilled for role.
posted by de at 6:09 PM on October 21, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by de at 6:09 PM on October 21, 2012 [1 favorite]
Not going to get too involved in what polls say what here, but it sort of boggles my mind just how divergent the polls seem to be. The difference between Gallup and the IBD/TIPP national polls is nearly a 13% spread. I've read where Gallup seems to be oversampling SE states which is throwing the whole thing out of whack, but still. With one simultaneously having Romney +7 (and Obama with a 50% job satisfaction rate!), and the other Obama +5.7%, we are not talking a 3-5% spread here but real divergent numbers indicating someone is doing something fundamentally wrong in how they are polling.
posted by edgeways at 6:15 PM on October 21, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by edgeways at 6:15 PM on October 21, 2012 [3 favorites]
Here is a fun little disclaimer that arrives with your $50K donation to attend a Romney diner this weekend:
"All events are closed to the public and you should treat all statements, whether made during formal presentation or informal conversations, as off the record. Please be mindful of the security and confidentiality of your meeting notes and materials. Please do not post updates or information about the meeting on blogs, social media such as Facebook and Twitter, or in traditional media."posted by edgeways at 6:27 PM on October 21, 2012 [3 favorites]
"All events are closed to the public and you should treat all statements, whether made during formal presentation or informal conversations, as off the record. Please be mindful of the security and confidentiality of your meeting notes and materials. Please do not post updates or information about the meeting on blogs, social media such as Facebook and Twitter, or in traditional media."
Or what?
posted by Room 641-A at 6:30 PM on October 21, 2012
Or what?
posted by Room 641-A at 6:30 PM on October 21, 2012
... or he may lose.
posted by de at 6:30 PM on October 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by de at 6:30 PM on October 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
to attend a Romney diner this weekend
Oh. If only it were a diner. :)
posted by NailsTheCat at 6:30 PM on October 21, 2012 [3 favorites]
Oh. If only it were a diner. :)
posted by NailsTheCat at 6:30 PM on October 21, 2012 [3 favorites]
Why didn't Mother Jones keep the 47% video under wraps until far closer to voting day?
They're journalists, not political operatives. They aren't interested in holding a mindblowing story until it helps their favored candidate the most. They're interested in being the first and best to report it. They didn't actually hold it that long, once they had the full material. It's not something the campaigns had any control over, as it should be.
posted by Miko at 6:37 PM on October 21, 2012 [5 favorites]
They're journalists, not political operatives. They aren't interested in holding a mindblowing story until it helps their favored candidate the most. They're interested in being the first and best to report it. They didn't actually hold it that long, once they had the full material. It's not something the campaigns had any control over, as it should be.
posted by Miko at 6:37 PM on October 21, 2012 [5 favorites]
Here you go, bottom of the page. Looks like it was last week and not this weekend and is more to do with Republicans-in-general rather than Romney specifically.
Consider my original post amended slightly.
posted by edgeways at 6:37 PM on October 21, 2012
Consider my original post amended slightly.
posted by edgeways at 6:37 PM on October 21, 2012
It looks totally influenced by and intended to prevent another Romneypocalypse so I'm not sure you really need to amend. I was just interested in the language.
posted by Miko at 6:41 PM on October 21, 2012
posted by Miko at 6:41 PM on October 21, 2012
Just the "when" and "specific who" needed to be more accurate. I agree though it totally is something trying to avoid another 47%-apooliza. I'm guessing it also means that what is said at donor events is not what is said on the campaign trail
posted by edgeways at 6:45 PM on October 21, 2012
posted by edgeways at 6:45 PM on October 21, 2012
Ohio county (Miami) elections director resigns, citing stress of coming presidential election (video at Dayton Daily News link).
posted by cashman at 7:46 PM on October 21, 2012
posted by cashman at 7:46 PM on October 21, 2012
edgeways: but real divergent numbers indicating someone is doing something fundamentally wrong in how they are polling
You might be interested in this post by political scientist Alan Abramowitz at Huffpost: Is Gallup Heading for Another Big Miss?
In addition to their whacked voter screen (see here and here (pdf)), Abramowitz thinks Gallup's demographic composition of likely voters under-represents non-whites:
You might be interested in this post by political scientist Alan Abramowitz at Huffpost: Is Gallup Heading for Another Big Miss?
In addition to their whacked voter screen (see here and here (pdf)), Abramowitz thinks Gallup's demographic composition of likely voters under-represents non-whites:
Gallup's estimate that only 20 percent of this year's likely voters are non-white is far lower than the 26 percent non-white share of voters found in the 2008 exit poll or even the 23 percent share found in the 2004 exit poll. It is actually very close to the 19 percent share found in the 2000 exit poll. So according to the Gallup tracking poll, the racial composition of the 2012 electorate will be similar to that of the 2000 electorate despite the dramatic increase in the nonwhite share of the voting age population that has occurred in the past 12 years.posted by Bokmakierie at 8:02 PM on October 21, 2012 [3 favorites]
Oh yeah, and the other nifty thing I didn't realize until I looked:
In Oregon (and Washington), you can track the status of your ballot.
posted by mrzarquon at 8:53 PM on October 21, 2012 [1 favorite]
In Oregon (and Washington), you can track the status of your ballot.
posted by mrzarquon at 8:53 PM on October 21, 2012 [1 favorite]
Democrats Are Horrible, Republicans Are Great
Republicans Are Horrible, Democrats Are Great
posted by rebent at 9:13 PM on October 21, 2012 [1 favorite]
Republicans Are Horrible, Democrats Are Great
posted by rebent at 9:13 PM on October 21, 2012 [1 favorite]
Why Benghazi Is Even Bigger Than You Think for Obama and Romney
posted by homunculus at 12:53 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 12:53 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Miko: They're journalists, not political operatives. They aren't interested in holding a mindblowing story until it helps their favoured candidate the most.
Or, to put it another way: MJ is a news organisation with a political bias, unlike the obvious e.g. Fox, who are a political bias with a news organisation.
posted by titus-g at 3:41 AM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]
Or, to put it another way: MJ is a news organisation with a political bias, unlike the obvious e.g. Fox, who are a political bias with a news organisation.
posted by titus-g at 3:41 AM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]
Gender Gap Near Historic Highs
posted by the man of twists and turns at 4:41 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by the man of twists and turns at 4:41 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
For some perspective on Romney's saber-rattling in China's direction:
FT: China’s currency rises in the US backyard
posted by wierdo at 6:21 AM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
FT: China’s currency rises in the US backyard
posted by wierdo at 6:21 AM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
Romney blimp goes limp
An airship promoting Mitt Romney’s presidential campaign in Florida drew attention for other reasons Sunday when it was forced to make an emergency landing just north of Miami.posted by Room 641-A at 6:46 AM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
According to WSVN-TV, the blimp, bearing the banner, “America Needs Romney,” was caught in high winds on its way back to a local airport, forcing it to the ground near a residential area in Davie, Florida.
“It was getting lower and lower,” one resident said. “It was totally going down, it was just losing altitude. The wind was just taking it and taking it.”
^ China's currency rises in the US backyard:
China has risen.
TIME FOR A SMALL MEETING OF BIG POWERS
posted by de at 6:46 AM on October 22, 2012
"The message for the next US president is clear: America’s top priority should be internal economic regeneration rather than targeting China’s currency or other policies. The urgency of the message is underlined by the reality that this regeneration is a necessary but by no means sufficient condition for retaining American pre-eminence in the face of China’s rise."Why try retaining (regaining?) American pre-eminence in the face of China's rise?
China has risen.
TIME FOR A SMALL MEETING OF BIG POWERS
posted by de at 6:46 AM on October 22, 2012
Soledad O’Brien scolds Giuliani: ‘Stop putting words in my mouth!’
posted by Room 641-A at 6:51 AM on October 22, 2012 [15 favorites]
Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani found himself getting an attitude adjustment from CNN host Soledad O’Brien on Monday after he suggested that she was blaming former President George W. Bush for recent attacks that left four Americans dead in Libya.SO-LE-DAD! SO-LE-DAD!
[...]
“You’ve got to stop putting words in my mouth, sir!” O’Brien shot back. “Seriously, hang on, let me finish. Because every time I ask you a question — let me finish my point — every time I ask you a question, you like to push back as if the question that’s being posed to you is unfair, it’s not. I’m a journalist. You said some things, I’m trying to get some accurate responses from you.”
posted by Room 641-A at 6:51 AM on October 22, 2012 [15 favorites]
I really wish tonight’s debate wasn’t just about foreign policy, as much as I expect Mr. Romney to do a huge face plant. I would really like to hear him respond to Bay Buchanan’s assertion that Gov. Romney will reverse the President’s Executive Order regarding hospital visitation. I’ve been stewing about it all weekend.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:58 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 6:58 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Look at it like this... would you believe anything he actually said?
posted by edgeways at 7:16 AM on October 22, 2012
posted by edgeways at 7:16 AM on October 22, 2012
Are we keeping this thread, or will someone post a nifty new post for the final debate?
I feel like we should all get together for drinks to watch the results come in.
posted by Theta States at 7:20 AM on October 22, 2012
I feel like we should all get together for drinks to watch the results come in.
posted by Theta States at 7:20 AM on October 22, 2012
SO-LE-DAD! SO-LE-DAD!
Whoa, she went off the chain, in a good way, for a moment there. Happens at about 6:20 in the video link btw. And she keeps going, and does very well in the face of some pretty strong stonewalling on Giuliani's part. She even kinda, somewhat, maybe gets an answer from him in the end. But then he goes on to talk about the color of the paint on the walls in his condo and the impact that will have on Obama's reaction. Typical.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:22 AM on October 22, 2012
Whoa, she went off the chain, in a good way, for a moment there. Happens at about 6:20 in the video link btw. And she keeps going, and does very well in the face of some pretty strong stonewalling on Giuliani's part. She even kinda, somewhat, maybe gets an answer from him in the end. But then he goes on to talk about the color of the paint on the walls in his condo and the impact that will have on Obama's reaction. Typical.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:22 AM on October 22, 2012
A friend of mine just posted that they went to do early voting today (I believe in Texas). A woman poll worker insisted on this person showing her driver's license in order to vote. She was adamant, despite the voter’s protests. When the voter used the words "hardly legal" and turned to go get her ID out of the car, they quickly stopped her and said, that was fine, but did want something with her name to verify spelling, work ID, voter registration card, etc.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:31 AM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:31 AM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
What did she have with her? In Texas you need some ID or your voter registration card:
http://www.harrisvotes.com/VotingInfo/AcceptableID.aspx
posted by DynamiteToast at 7:34 AM on October 22, 2012
http://www.harrisvotes.com/VotingInfo/AcceptableID.aspx
posted by DynamiteToast at 7:34 AM on October 22, 2012
This article says you don't need a photo ID.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:44 AM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:44 AM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
Romney blimp goes limp.
And Romney says size doesn't matter. Well, he's been campaigning a long time, he's probably just tired.
posted by headnsouth at 7:57 AM on October 22, 2012
And Romney says size doesn't matter. Well, he's been campaigning a long time, he's probably just tired.
posted by headnsouth at 7:57 AM on October 22, 2012
Right you don't, but you do need your voter registration card at least. You make it sound like she didn't have that even?
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:00 AM on October 22, 2012
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:00 AM on October 22, 2012
I'm trying to find out what she had.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:02 AM on October 22, 2012
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:02 AM on October 22, 2012
This article says you don't need a photo ID.
Currently in Texas, you need a voter registration card to cast a straight ballot. A voter registration card isn't photo ID. If you don't have a voter registration card, you can be asked for some other form of ID to correspond to the voter roll.
If you don't have any ID including a registration card, you can still cast a provisional ballot.
posted by muddgirl at 8:02 AM on October 22, 2012
Currently in Texas, you need a voter registration card to cast a straight ballot. A voter registration card isn't photo ID. If you don't have a voter registration card, you can be asked for some other form of ID to correspond to the voter roll.
If you don't have any ID including a registration card, you can still cast a provisional ballot.
posted by muddgirl at 8:02 AM on October 22, 2012
Also, if you're really against a picture the link says you can use a utility bill.
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:04 AM on October 22, 2012
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:04 AM on October 22, 2012
Sorry, that's from the Bexar County Election Commission - I assume it's the same in every county.
Do I really need my Voter Registration Card to vote?posted by muddgirl at 8:04 AM on October 22, 2012
Bringing the card will help both you and others in line by speeding the process. If you do not have your card, you will be asked for a driver license or other form of positive identification. Please bring the card with you.
What happens if I want to vote a Provisional Ballot?
A voter may vote a Provisional Ballot if they are not on the voter list during early voting or on election day, or if there is a question about their identification. Voting a Provisional Ballot is not an option if you are a registered voter on the list where you vote in an election. A Provisional Ballot is an option intended for voters for whom there is a question about their registration or identification.
The woman in question had a work ID with her name and picture.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:17 AM on October 22, 2012
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:17 AM on October 22, 2012
Yah that probably should've counted per number 3 from the Harris County link, unless it looked really unofficial or something. It got rectified though so I guess no harm no foul...
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:21 AM on October 22, 2012
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:21 AM on October 22, 2012
A bunch of October 21 newspaper endorsements updated on this page, previously linked. Looks like 5 for Romney, 6 for Obama when I last looked.
posted by cashman at 8:22 AM on October 22, 2012
posted by cashman at 8:22 AM on October 22, 2012
DynamiteToast, only because she had the courage and balls to tell them that what they were doing wasn't legal. I suspect a lot of people would have left.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:24 AM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:24 AM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
A bunch of October 21 newspaper endorsements updated on this page, previously linked. Looks like 5 for Romney, 6 for Obama when I last looked.
Interesting, the one paper so far that endorsed McCain in 08 and Obama this election is San-Antonio.
I can't wait til Texas swings blue in the next few elections, all my old white friends are gonna lose it.
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:26 AM on October 22, 2012
Interesting, the one paper so far that endorsed McCain in 08 and Obama this election is San-Antonio.
I can't wait til Texas swings blue in the next few elections, all my old white friends are gonna lose it.
posted by DynamiteToast at 8:26 AM on October 22, 2012
The other day I had this idea that Somebody* should do. It would be a set of very short YouTube videos about how to vote. Best if done state by state. It would be really simple and straightforward: 1. What do you need to bring with you; 2. what happens when you get there (any relevant ID checks, giving your name to the volunteer who looks it up on the rolls) 3. The different voting technologies you might encounter at your polling station and how to use them. 4. What you do with your ballot and what happens afterward (briefly), and finally 5. What is ILLEGAL or shouldn't happen, based on your state law (whether campaigning at the polls is allowed for instance, or other kinds of irregularities you might encounter).
I honestly believe that low voter turnout is at least partly due to a fair amount of threshold fear. The process is a little opaque until the first time you do it, especially if your parents never took you into the polls when you were a kid. And now that the right has successfully created a very confusing and rather intimidating policy environment where you actually have to do a fair amount of due diligence to know whether you're entitled to vote, what kinds of documentation are required, and so on, I think a little friendly clarity would be a great gift to potential voters.
*not me, no time
posted by Miko at 8:29 AM on October 22, 2012 [9 favorites]
I honestly believe that low voter turnout is at least partly due to a fair amount of threshold fear. The process is a little opaque until the first time you do it, especially if your parents never took you into the polls when you were a kid. And now that the right has successfully created a very confusing and rather intimidating policy environment where you actually have to do a fair amount of due diligence to know whether you're entitled to vote, what kinds of documentation are required, and so on, I think a little friendly clarity would be a great gift to potential voters.
*not me, no time
posted by Miko at 8:29 AM on October 22, 2012 [9 favorites]
mrzarquon: In Oregon (and Washington), you can track the status of your ballot.
Hey, it works! I was wondering where my ballot was:
A ballot was sent to the following address on October 19, 2012: xxxxx
I should get it later today.
posted by msalt at 8:42 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Hey, it works! I was wondering where my ballot was:
A ballot was sent to the following address on October 19, 2012: xxxxx
I should get it later today.
posted by msalt at 8:42 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Just remember a provisional ballot is essentially a wasted vote. You are required to present whatever missing info you didn't produce at the polling place, usually by Friday of the election week. By the time the provisional ballots are counted, the election results have already been determined.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 8:50 AM on October 22, 2012
posted by Benny Andajetz at 8:50 AM on October 22, 2012
That surprises me, Benny - wouldn't they be treated like absentee ballots, and count them if the election was close enough that the number submitted could make a difference to the outcome?
posted by Miko at 9:05 AM on October 22, 2012
posted by Miko at 9:05 AM on October 22, 2012
That's a good idea, Miko. I did an askme about this a few months ago and looking through the various resources the most up-to-date page seems to be the Brennan Center's page, last updated 5 days ago - 10-16-2012.
It could actually be really cute - for each state you could have some stereotypical background, but have the same few people appearing. So for Indiana, they could have on IU gear and be flipping a basketball around. For Tennessee they could be sitting in rocking chairs, drinking sweet tea. For Texas ...well, something Texasy that isn't off-putting. I'd say we could lobby communitychannel to do it, but Natalie Tran is based in Australia.
It is really ripe for some YouTube channel to take the ball and run with it, and get a bunch of hits in the process. Anybody have ideas on who could do this? The remix the news gang (The Gregory Brothers)?
Anyway, here is the current Brennan Center page info directly related to what should happen if you want to vote in your state (in places where laws have changed). I am omitting text that isn't providing information about a current requirement or change, so if a state's name appears, there have been things like voter registration or felony disenfranchisement-registration laws, or early voting hour restrictions that have changed :
It could actually be really cute - for each state you could have some stereotypical background, but have the same few people appearing. So for Indiana, they could have on IU gear and be flipping a basketball around. For Tennessee they could be sitting in rocking chairs, drinking sweet tea. For Texas ...well, something Texasy that isn't off-putting. I'd say we could lobby communitychannel to do it, but Natalie Tran is based in Australia.
It is really ripe for some YouTube channel to take the ball and run with it, and get a bunch of hits in the process. Anybody have ideas on who could do this? The remix the news gang (The Gregory Brothers)?
Anyway, here is the current Brennan Center page info directly related to what should happen if you want to vote in your state (in places where laws have changed). I am omitting text that isn't providing information about a current requirement or change, so if a state's name appears, there have been things like voter registration or felony disenfranchisement-registration laws, or early voting hour restrictions that have changed :
Floridaposted by cashman at 9:10 AM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]
Georgia
Georgia has a photo ID law, which passed in 2005
Illinois
Iowa
Kansas
Photo ID required to vote
New Hampshire
Voter ID required — non-photo IDs allowed for 2012 election, but photo ID required starting September 1, 2013
Pennsylvania
Photo ID requested but NOT required to vote, per October 2, 2012 court decision
Rhode Island
Voter ID required — non-photo IDs allowed for 2012 election, but photo ID required starting January 1, 2014
South Dakota
Tennessee
Photo ID required to vote
Proof of citizenship required to register
Texas
Texas passed a law requiring a photo ID to vote, but a federal court blocked that law in August — it will NOT be in effect for 2012
Virginia
Voter ID required, including non-photo ID
West Virginia
Wisconsin
Wisconsin passed a law requiring photo ID to vote, but two state courts blocked that law — it will NOT be in effect for 2012
A breakdown of laws passed that will NOT be in effect in 2012:
Ohio
Early voting hours were restored for the three days before the election
South Carolina
A federal court did NOT approve South Carolina's photo ID law for the 2012 election — a voter can use their non-photo voter registration card after 2012, so long as they state the reason for not having obtained a photo ID.
There are several local Texas races where a recount is plausible, and where provisional ballots should be counted.
When I cast a provisional ballot in California in 2003 or 2004, my ballot was indeed counted after the results were announced. In some sense, yes, it might be 'worthless,' in the same way any vote for Obama for President or Paul Sadler for Senator are 'worthless.'
posted by muddgirl at 9:15 AM on October 22, 2012
When I cast a provisional ballot in California in 2003 or 2004, my ballot was indeed counted after the results were announced. In some sense, yes, it might be 'worthless,' in the same way any vote for Obama for President or Paul Sadler for Senator are 'worthless.'
posted by muddgirl at 9:15 AM on October 22, 2012
(any vote for Obama for President in the state of Texas, I mean).
posted by muddgirl at 9:16 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by muddgirl at 9:16 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'll leave the video making to someone more talented and visually appealing (and with more time on their hands), but I might try to put together a single-serving website with the information laid out a bit more clearly/visually than that Brennan Center page. It would probably be more productive and less depressing (well, maybe not the last one) than watching the debates and yelling at the screen again.
posted by Phire at 9:25 AM on October 22, 2012
posted by Phire at 9:25 AM on October 22, 2012
Esquire on tonight's debate:
Charles P. Pierce: War Is Not the Answer, So War Becomes the Answer: Your Final Unaccountable-Executive-Branch Debate
Tom Junod: The Lethal Debate: Questions About Killing
posted by homunculus at 9:36 AM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
Charles P. Pierce: War Is Not the Answer, So War Becomes the Answer: Your Final Unaccountable-Executive-Branch Debate
Tom Junod: The Lethal Debate: Questions About Killing
posted by homunculus at 9:36 AM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
^ War Is Not the Answer, So War Becomes the Answer:
posted by de at 10:02 AM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
"Trade is foreign policy. The environment is foreign policy. Energy policy is foreign policy. Human rights are foreign policy. Drought is foreign policy. Starvation is foreign policy."Thank goodness someone appreciates that.
posted by de at 10:02 AM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
Apologies. I was being a little casual about provisional ballots. They are absolutely better than not voting, but the chances that they are counted is minimal. First, the voter has to actually follow through on presenting their information to the registrar in the time allotted, and then the race has to be close enough for them to actually be counted. They could actually be the deciding factor, but they aren't called "provisional" for nothing.
Your best bet for having your vote count is to have whatever information your polling place requires with you on election day.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 10:19 AM on October 22, 2012
Your best bet for having your vote count is to have whatever information your polling place requires with you on election day.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 10:19 AM on October 22, 2012
Are we keeping this thread, or will someone post a nifty new post for the final debate?
If no one else will, I'll step up.
posted by ersatz at 10:22 AM on October 22, 2012
If no one else will, I'll step up.
posted by ersatz at 10:22 AM on October 22, 2012
Holy crap CNN: Is Obama the 'wrong' kind of Christian?
In the ever-shrinking good news corner, there is this: Quinnipiac Poll puts Obama at 5 point lead in Ohio. The 50 to 45 lead is bolstered by Obama's support among women (55 to 40).
Tell me something good, oh my fellow peeps - I am in the throes of quiet desperation. It's too damn close for my comfort!
posted by madamjujujive at 10:23 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
In the ever-shrinking good news corner, there is this: Quinnipiac Poll puts Obama at 5 point lead in Ohio. The 50 to 45 lead is bolstered by Obama's support among women (55 to 40).
Tell me something good, oh my fellow peeps - I am in the throes of quiet desperation. It's too damn close for my comfort!
posted by madamjujujive at 10:23 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Not really national, but a little bit of good news for my district, looks like Nolan (D) is a full 7 points ahead of Cravaack (R-Inc). Cravaack was the fellow who beat Oberstar last time around. Oberstar had been in the House something like 30 years.
Nolan was in the House back in the late 70's and I understand if he wins he gets to carry in the seniority he accrued (he also is one of the folks who was responsible for the creation of the BWCA
posted by edgeways at 10:25 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Nolan was in the House back in the late 70's and I understand if he wins he gets to carry in the seniority he accrued (he also is one of the folks who was responsible for the creation of the BWCA
posted by edgeways at 10:25 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
If no one else will, I'll step up.
I wrote one out while munching on a roast beef and turkey sandwich, will post later this afternoon.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:29 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
I wrote one out while munching on a roast beef and turkey sandwich, will post later this afternoon.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:29 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Just remember a provisional ballot is essentially a wasted vote. You are required to present whatever missing info you didn't produce at the polling place, usually by Friday of the election week.First, the voter has to actually follow through on presenting their information to the registrar in the time allotted, and then the race has to be close enough for them to actually be counted.
In my county you fill out a form on an envelope that the provisional ballot goes into, and the registrar then checks that information and every vote you are eligible to cast at that polling place is counted. They aren't left in a pile someplace and counted only if the race is otherwise close. It's certainly not the case here that provisional ballots are wasted votes.
posted by oneirodynia at 10:30 AM on October 22, 2012
Is Obama the wrong kind of Christian because he believes in helping the poor?
Is ROMNEY the right kind of Christian? Wait, what?
posted by Theta States at 10:35 AM on October 22, 2012
Is ROMNEY the right kind of Christian? Wait, what?
posted by Theta States at 10:35 AM on October 22, 2012
Tell me something good, oh my fellow peeps - I am in the throes of quiet desperation. It's too damn close for my comfort!
It's just not that close. All the routes to victory for Romney are quite unlikely, while there are plenty of viable ways for Obama to win. That's what's reflected in the projections. 538, for example, is saying an Obama win is twice as likely as a Romney win. The weird Gallup outlier not withstanding, there's no reason to suppose Romney has the kind of advantage nationally that he needs to overcome his electoral college problems.
posted by howfar at 10:36 AM on October 22, 2012
It's just not that close. All the routes to victory for Romney are quite unlikely, while there are plenty of viable ways for Obama to win. That's what's reflected in the projections. 538, for example, is saying an Obama win is twice as likely as a Romney win. The weird Gallup outlier not withstanding, there's no reason to suppose Romney has the kind of advantage nationally that he needs to overcome his electoral college problems.
posted by howfar at 10:36 AM on October 22, 2012
I wrote one out while munching on a roast beef and turkey sandwich, will post later this afternoon.
That sandwich sounds delicious. That would have been my post - use any links you'd like:
Although the third presidential debate between President Obama and Governor Mitt Romney is tonight's big news, it won't sway the 4400000 early voters who have already cast their vote. Statistics on early voting so far. Each state has different rules for early voting and voter ID laws.
posted by ersatz at 10:38 AM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
That sandwich sounds delicious. That would have been my post - use any links you'd like:
Although the third presidential debate between President Obama and Governor Mitt Romney is tonight's big news, it won't sway the 4400000 early voters who have already cast their vote. Statistics on early voting so far. Each state has different rules for early voting and voter ID laws.
posted by ersatz at 10:38 AM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
It's just not that close. All the routes to victory for Romney are quite unlikely, while there are plenty of viable ways for Obama to win. That's what's reflected in the projections. 538, for example, is saying an Obama win is twice as likely as a Romney win. The weird Gallup outlier not withstanding, there's no reason to suppose Romney has the kind of advantage nationally that he needs to overcome his electoral college problems.
I love that you reference 538, but either haven't read or missed the part in todays article, where Nate Silver says (I'm paraphrasing) "Stop saying it's not that close. It's certainly not a dead heat, and Obama is in the lead, but if we said his chances were 67% and they were actually 95% then our aggregator would be seriously wrong. If we're right, Romney will win 1 out of 3 times, which is significant."
posted by DynamiteToast at 10:43 AM on October 22, 2012
I love that you reference 538, but either haven't read or missed the part in todays article, where Nate Silver says (I'm paraphrasing) "Stop saying it's not that close. It's certainly not a dead heat, and Obama is in the lead, but if we said his chances were 67% and they were actually 95% then our aggregator would be seriously wrong. If we're right, Romney will win 1 out of 3 times, which is significant."
posted by DynamiteToast at 10:43 AM on October 22, 2012
I'd read or heard something a month or two ago about how tonight's moderator Bob Schieffer wasn't going to watch the first two debates, apparently so that they didn't affect the way he ran his. I don't know if he said it in an interview, in an article, or if he said it on Face the Nation. Pretty sure he said that though. But he obviously decided to watch the first two debates, so I wonder what happened that made him decide to watch them.
posted by cashman at 10:44 AM on October 22, 2012
posted by cashman at 10:44 AM on October 22, 2012
> so I wonder what happened that made him decide to watch them.
He was probably warned how Romney has a disregard for moderators, and lacks basic turn-taking skills in speech. Forewarned and all that.
posted by de at 10:50 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
He was probably warned how Romney has a disregard for moderators, and lacks basic turn-taking skills in speech. Forewarned and all that.
posted by de at 10:50 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Someone probably reminded him that the past 2 moderators each had a media firestorm surrounding them, post-debate.
posted by Theta States at 10:51 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Theta States at 10:51 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
DynamiteToast: "It's just not that close. All the routes to victory for Romney are quite unlikely, while there are plenty of viable ways for Obama to win. That's what's reflected in the projections. 538, for example, is saying an Obama win is twice as likely as a Romney win. The weird Gallup outlier not withstanding, there's no reason to suppose Romney has the kind of advantage nationally that he needs to overcome his electoral college problems.
I love that you reference 538, but either haven't read or missed the part in todays article, where Nate Silver says (I'm paraphrasing) "Stop saying it's not that close. It's certainly not a dead heat, and Obama is in the lead, but if we said his chances were 67% and they were actually 95% then our aggregator would be seriously wrong. If we're right, Romney will win 1 out of 3 times, which is significant."
Yeah, 2:1 is pretty close. I think a lot of people are used to only seeing polls / results when it comes to political races, so they incorrectly translate 67-33 into a huge lead.
posted by Perplexity at 10:54 AM on October 22, 2012
I love that you reference 538, but either haven't read or missed the part in todays article, where Nate Silver says (I'm paraphrasing) "Stop saying it's not that close. It's certainly not a dead heat, and Obama is in the lead, but if we said his chances were 67% and they were actually 95% then our aggregator would be seriously wrong. If we're right, Romney will win 1 out of 3 times, which is significant."
Yeah, 2:1 is pretty close. I think a lot of people are used to only seeing polls / results when it comes to political races, so they incorrectly translate 67-33 into a huge lead.
posted by Perplexity at 10:54 AM on October 22, 2012
Jim called Bob up and said "Man the ladies are seriously kicking our asses you gotta do something Bob or else we won't be invited back!"
posted by edgeways at 10:56 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by edgeways at 10:56 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
"If we're right, Romney will win 1 out of 3 times, which is significant."
But the election only happens once, so...huh?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:57 AM on October 22, 2012
But the election only happens once, so...huh?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:57 AM on October 22, 2012
But the election only happens once, so...huh?
If it’s the one time that Romney wins, that’s significant. Plus, there is no electoral model that Nate Silver could provide that accounts for voter suppression and/or the voting machines being owned by Tagg Romney.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:58 AM on October 22, 2012
If it’s the one time that Romney wins, that’s significant. Plus, there is no electoral model that Nate Silver could provide that accounts for voter suppression and/or the voting machines being owned by Tagg Romney.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 10:58 AM on October 22, 2012
Can't we get some culture ships in to sim this out already?
posted by edgeways at 10:58 AM on October 22, 2012
posted by edgeways at 10:58 AM on October 22, 2012
But the election only happens once, so...huh?
Flip a coin twice. Did Heads come up each time? If so, that's Romney winning.
And if it didn't come up heads each time for you, it will for many others...
posted by Theta States at 10:59 AM on October 22, 2012
Flip a coin twice. Did Heads come up each time? If so, that's Romney winning.
And if it didn't come up heads each time for you, it will for many others...
posted by Theta States at 10:59 AM on October 22, 2012
In my county you fill out a form on an envelope that the provisional ballot goes into, and the registrar then checks that information and every vote you are eligible to cast at that polling place is counted. They aren't left in a pile someplace and counted only if the race is otherwise close. It's certainly not the case here that provisional ballots are wasted votes.
Here in Virginia, you used to be able to fill out an Affirmation of Identity for a provisional ballot. You would fill in the info and the registrar would confirm it and count the vote. That isn't allowed anymore. Virginia has increased the ways you can identify yourself at the polls, but if you don't present something acceptable, you physically have to go the the Election Board by Friday to show proof of ID. Otherwise, your vote IS NOT counted. My understanding is also that, if the election is decided by a large enough margin, your provisional ballot is not counted, either.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 11:03 AM on October 22, 2012
Here in Virginia, you used to be able to fill out an Affirmation of Identity for a provisional ballot. You would fill in the info and the registrar would confirm it and count the vote. That isn't allowed anymore. Virginia has increased the ways you can identify yourself at the polls, but if you don't present something acceptable, you physically have to go the the Election Board by Friday to show proof of ID. Otherwise, your vote IS NOT counted. My understanding is also that, if the election is decided by a large enough margin, your provisional ballot is not counted, either.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 11:03 AM on October 22, 2012
Bain Workers Drop 40ft Tall Message at Romney HQ.
"Help us get #Sensata in #debate2012 by hammering the hashtags today. @BarackObama must call the question on #Mitt #Bainport"
posted by cashman at 11:06 AM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
"Help us get #Sensata in #debate2012 by hammering the hashtags today. @BarackObama must call the question on #Mitt #Bainport"
posted by cashman at 11:06 AM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
Is ROMNEY the right kind of Christian? Wait, what?
BEHIND THE VEIL: Never-Before-Seen Footage of Secret Mormon Temple Rituals.
posted by ericb at 11:19 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
BEHIND THE VEIL: Never-Before-Seen Footage of Secret Mormon Temple Rituals.
posted by ericb at 11:19 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Contrary to the claim made in the video description ("Mormon temple ceremonies are a closely held secret. Until now."), descriptions of Mormon temple ceremonies are widespread on the internet:
Very thorough Wikipedia article on Endowment.
A Wikipedia article on Mormonism and Freemansonry.
Mormon Temples and Temple Rituals, maintained by an ex-Mormon.
posted by muddgirl at 11:25 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Very thorough Wikipedia article on Endowment.
A Wikipedia article on Mormonism and Freemansonry.
Mormon Temples and Temple Rituals, maintained by an ex-Mormon.
posted by muddgirl at 11:25 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
But the election only happens once, so...huh?
Bayesian thinking is flawed in cases like this. You can't really use past elections or political events as a very accurate predictor for this election. A coin flip has a known probability. What will happen in tonight's debate and leading up to the election, and how 'undecideds' will make their decision does not.
Maybe 538 is the best predictor if the election were held today - but is Nate Silver accurately accounting for the probable outcomes of tonight's debate, other late October surprises, media attention leading up to the debate, etc? I'm not sure you can have much confidence in anyone's prediction of these things. Intrade is, perhaps, slightly better if there is 'inside' information of some sort out there. The 538 now-cast number is meaningful, and more so as we get closer to the election, but the Nov. 6th forecast has a very large bs coefficient, IMO.
posted by Golden Eternity at 11:26 AM on October 22, 2012
Bayesian thinking is flawed in cases like this. You can't really use past elections or political events as a very accurate predictor for this election. A coin flip has a known probability. What will happen in tonight's debate and leading up to the election, and how 'undecideds' will make their decision does not.
Maybe 538 is the best predictor if the election were held today - but is Nate Silver accurately accounting for the probable outcomes of tonight's debate, other late October surprises, media attention leading up to the debate, etc? I'm not sure you can have much confidence in anyone's prediction of these things. Intrade is, perhaps, slightly better if there is 'inside' information of some sort out there. The 538 now-cast number is meaningful, and more so as we get closer to the election, but the Nov. 6th forecast has a very large bs coefficient, IMO.
posted by Golden Eternity at 11:26 AM on October 22, 2012
"Stop saying it's not that close. It's certainly not a dead heat, and Obama is in the lead, but if we said his chances were 67% and they were actually 95% then our aggregator would be seriously wrong. If we're right, Romney will win 1 out of 3 times, which is significant."
Also, you haven't understood this. What Silver is actually saying is that, if his model is accurate, this is the case. He is also saying that he doesn't actually have the data to firmly tell how well the model works in presidential elections. In some ways, the fact that he called the last election so well actually potentially undermines the model's risk calculation ability, but that's not enough to prove anything either way.
posted by howfar at 11:26 AM on October 22, 2012
Also, you haven't understood this. What Silver is actually saying is that, if his model is accurate, this is the case. He is also saying that he doesn't actually have the data to firmly tell how well the model works in presidential elections. In some ways, the fact that he called the last election so well actually potentially undermines the model's risk calculation ability, but that's not enough to prove anything either way.
posted by howfar at 11:26 AM on October 22, 2012
DynamiteToast, only because she had the courage and balls to tell them that what they were doing wasn't legal. I suspect a lot of people would have left.
This is key. They don't have to stop everyone, they just have to discourage enough.
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:32 AM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
This is key. They don't have to stop everyone, they just have to discourage enough.
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:32 AM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
is Nate Silver accurately accounting for the probable outcomes of tonight's debate, other late October surprises, media attention leading up to the debate, etc?
I think it'd be great to start a 538 knock-off blog where you have charts imagining all sorts of fanciful scenarios.
This is our prediction given a secret Obama / Hogan sex tape being released.
This is our prediction if Romney comes out as pansexual.
This is our prediction given the scenario of an organized koala invasion from Australia happening before November...
posted by Theta States at 11:33 AM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]
I think it'd be great to start a 538 knock-off blog where you have charts imagining all sorts of fanciful scenarios.
This is our prediction given a secret Obama / Hogan sex tape being released.
This is our prediction if Romney comes out as pansexual.
This is our prediction given the scenario of an organized koala invasion from Australia happening before November...
posted by Theta States at 11:33 AM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]
Bayesian thinking is flawed in cases like this. You can't really use past elections or political events as a very accurate predictor for this election. A coin flip has a known probability. What will happen in tonight's debate and leading up to the election, and how 'undecideds' will make their decision does not.
Yeah, that's why I'm thrown by the '1 out of 3 times, Romeny will win' statement. It reads like carefully controlled experimented that can be repeatedly in the exact same way.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:34 AM on October 22, 2012
Yeah, that's why I'm thrown by the '1 out of 3 times, Romeny will win' statement. It reads like carefully controlled experimented that can be repeatedly in the exact same way.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:34 AM on October 22, 2012
Also, you haven't understood this. What Silver is actually saying is that, if his model is accurate, this is the case. He is also saying that he doesn't actually have the data to firmly tell how well the model works in presidential elections. In some ways, the fact that he called the last election so well actually potentially undermines the model's risk calculation ability, but that's not enough to prove anything either way.
Seems to me like you made reasonable expectations of his model's accuracy as well, or at the least that we were both aware of the disclaimer that he might not be right at all. (I did throw in the "If we're right, Romney will win 1 out of 3 times, which is significant.")
In any case, this is what I was trying to paraphrase, for people wondering what we're talking about:
Seems to me like you made reasonable expectations of his model's accuracy as well, or at the least that we were both aware of the disclaimer that he might not be right at all. (I did throw in the "If we're right, Romney will win 1 out of 3 times, which is significant.")
In any case, this is what I was trying to paraphrase, for people wondering what we're talking about:
We calculate Mr. Obama’s odds as being about two chances out of three.posted by DynamiteToast at 11:39 AM on October 22, 2012
Not only will the underdog — Mr. Romney — win some of the time, but he should win some of the time if we have estimated the odds correctly. If the set of candidates you have listed as 67 percent favorites in fact win 95 percent of the time, or 100 percent of the time, you’ve done something wrong. Over the long run, such candidates should win two out of three times — no less and no more.
Apparently, Todd Akin did some sort of interview with St. Louis public radio today where he came out and said “If you’re going to vote on the gay issue, you probably shouldn’t vote for me.” Still waiting for a link.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:40 AM on October 22, 2012
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:40 AM on October 22, 2012
Fox Baselessly Suggests Obama ‘Traded’ American Lives To Appease Libya
I wonder if this is sort of a prelude to this coming week's debate.
That seems likely. Now Peter King is saying this: Congressman Suggests Obama Doctored Libyan Intelligence To Win Reelection
posted by homunculus at 11:45 AM on October 22, 2012
I wonder if this is sort of a prelude to this coming week's debate.
That seems likely. Now Peter King is saying this: Congressman Suggests Obama Doctored Libyan Intelligence To Win Reelection
posted by homunculus at 11:45 AM on October 22, 2012
They keep running Romney's latest commercial here in swing state Florida, USA. He is obviously trying to come across as making this impassioned plea; he even stutters a bit like he can't find the right words because he just so gosh darn it wants the best for everyone and it is so danged frustrating trying to get the Democrats to work with him!
posted by misha at 11:49 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
"We have to work on a collaborative basis, not because we're going to compromise our principle, but because there's common ground," Romney says in the ad. "[L]ook, the reason I'm in this race is there are people that are really hurting today in this country. And we face — this deficit could crush the future generation."Bullshit. I'm getting frustrated, just hearing him say the words. The man lies through his teeth. I don't trust him as far as I could throw him.
The Republican challenger goes on to say that "Republicans and Democrats both love America."
"But we need to have leadership — leadership in Washington that will actually bring people together and get the job done and could not care less if — if it's a Republican or a Democrat," Romney says. "I've done it before. I'll do it again."
posted by misha at 11:49 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Akin is pretty much toast, his aide said "If she where a dog McCaskil would be a Bullshitsu’", and that is at least the second McCaskil-as-dog reference in as many days.
But you know: "Everybody’s going to find a reason to get their feelings hurt and get bent out of shape."
posted by edgeways at 11:52 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
But you know: "Everybody’s going to find a reason to get their feelings hurt and get bent out of shape."
posted by edgeways at 11:52 AM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah, that's why I'm thrown by the '1 out of 3 times, Romeny will win' statement. It reads like carefully controlled experimented that can be repeatedly in the exact same way.
You have to make some sort of probabilistic model in order to use data from a sub-sample (or from related observables) to make predictions about something. (This is the heart of statistical inference, and will definitely appear on the final exam.) Probability spaces can only make statements about relative frequency over multiple outcomes drawn from the same distribution. You give up having a single definitive answer when using statistical methods.
posted by benito.strauss at 11:57 AM on October 22, 2012
You have to make some sort of probabilistic model in order to use data from a sub-sample (or from related observables) to make predictions about something. (This is the heart of statistical inference, and will definitely appear on the final exam.) Probability spaces can only make statements about relative frequency over multiple outcomes drawn from the same distribution. You give up having a single definitive answer when using statistical methods.
posted by benito.strauss at 11:57 AM on October 22, 2012
Congressman Suggests Obama Doctored Libyan Intelligence To Win Reelection
It's funny, I'm just not seeing how actions like this go along with the whole idea of "Republican willingness for bipartisanship leadership." I'm not really seeing how releasing State Documents with unredacted names brings people together. And I'm sure as hell not seeing Romney distance himself from the lies and frankly appalling actions of his party.
posted by jetlagaddict at 11:59 AM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
It's funny, I'm just not seeing how actions like this go along with the whole idea of "Republican willingness for bipartisanship leadership." I'm not really seeing how releasing State Documents with unredacted names brings people together. And I'm sure as hell not seeing Romney distance himself from the lies and frankly appalling actions of his party.
posted by jetlagaddict at 11:59 AM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
Flip a coin twice. Did Heads come up each time? If so, that's Romney winning.
The problem I have with understanding this - and admittedly I'm not a stats person - is that the election isn't fully probabilistic. The outcome isn't due to chance effects like a coin flip.
posted by Miko at 12:01 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
The problem I have with understanding this - and admittedly I'm not a stats person - is that the election isn't fully probabilistic. The outcome isn't due to chance effects like a coin flip.
posted by Miko at 12:01 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
From Forbes: Romney Family Investment Ties To Voting Machine Company That Could Decide The Election Causing Concern
posted by dejah420 at 12:04 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by dejah420 at 12:04 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]
Akin's full quote: "If you're going to vote on the 'gay issue,' you probably shouldn't vote for me. On the other hand, if you care about the future of our country, if you care about the economy, whether a dollar bill even works... then it might be something different."
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:13 PM on October 22, 2012
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:13 PM on October 22, 2012
Paul Krugman: 'Romney Team Willfully, Nakedly, Distorting The Record'.
posted by ericb at 12:15 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ericb at 12:15 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
The voting machine thing is just scary. It would be great if there was a diagram that could represent the setup & ties. I think that would be a lot more powerful. That or a website like theyrule that lets you look through the connections of the Romney family.
posted by cashman at 12:15 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by cashman at 12:15 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
From Questions and Answers on Third Presidential Debate on Salon.com
Here are questions and answers about the final debate, beginning 9 p.m. EDT and lasting until about 10:30 p.m.
Q. Who gets the first and last word?
A. Romney gets the first response to the opening question and the last closing statement.
Q. Wait a minute. Isn’t that unfair?
A. No. The order was decided by separate coin tosses.
Q. Foreign policy can be complicated. Will there be enough time to dig deep into the issues?
A. Yes. The moderator has planned for six 15-minute segments. Each segment begins with a question, followed by two-minute responses for each candidate and discussion facilitated by the moderator.
Q. Who chooses the questions and the topics?
A. The moderator, Bob Schieffer of CBS News.
Q. What are the topics for the six segments?
A. America’s role in the world; our longest war, Afghanistan and Pakistan; red lines and Israel and Iran; two segments on the changing Middle East and the new face of terrorism; the rise of China and tomorrow’s world. The topics may come up in a different order and could change as warranted by breaking news.
Q. Where will the debate be held?
A. In Florida, one of the key battleground states, at Lynn University’s theater in Boca Raton.
Q. Obama and Romney did a lot of walking around in the last debate, even circling each other. Will we see that again?
A. No. That was for the town-hall format. The candidates will be seated at the now-familiar, half-moon table owned by the Commission on Presidential Debates.
Q. How many people are watching the debates on television?
A. An estimated 65.6 million viewers watched the second presidential debate on Oct. 16, according to the Nielsen Co. Some 67 million people watched the first debate on Oct. 3.
Q. Is that the total number of debate viewers?
A. No. It doesn’t count people watching on the Internet.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 12:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
Here are questions and answers about the final debate, beginning 9 p.m. EDT and lasting until about 10:30 p.m.
Q. Who gets the first and last word?
A. Romney gets the first response to the opening question and the last closing statement.
Q. Wait a minute. Isn’t that unfair?
A. No. The order was decided by separate coin tosses.
Q. Foreign policy can be complicated. Will there be enough time to dig deep into the issues?
A. Yes. The moderator has planned for six 15-minute segments. Each segment begins with a question, followed by two-minute responses for each candidate and discussion facilitated by the moderator.
Q. Who chooses the questions and the topics?
A. The moderator, Bob Schieffer of CBS News.
Q. What are the topics for the six segments?
A. America’s role in the world; our longest war, Afghanistan and Pakistan; red lines and Israel and Iran; two segments on the changing Middle East and the new face of terrorism; the rise of China and tomorrow’s world. The topics may come up in a different order and could change as warranted by breaking news.
Q. Where will the debate be held?
A. In Florida, one of the key battleground states, at Lynn University’s theater in Boca Raton.
Q. Obama and Romney did a lot of walking around in the last debate, even circling each other. Will we see that again?
A. No. That was for the town-hall format. The candidates will be seated at the now-familiar, half-moon table owned by the Commission on Presidential Debates.
Q. How many people are watching the debates on television?
A. An estimated 65.6 million viewers watched the second presidential debate on Oct. 16, according to the Nielsen Co. Some 67 million people watched the first debate on Oct. 3.
Q. Is that the total number of debate viewers?
A. No. It doesn’t count people watching on the Internet.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 12:19 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
Q. Who gets the first and last word?
A. Romney gets the first response to the opening question and the last closing statement.
How did THAT happen? Why two coin tosses?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:21 PM on October 22, 2012
A. Romney gets the first response to the opening question and the last closing statement.
How did THAT happen? Why two coin tosses?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:21 PM on October 22, 2012
The next question:
Q. Wait a minute. Isn’t that unfair?
A. No. The order was decided by separate coin tosses.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 12:23 PM on October 22, 2012
Q. Wait a minute. Isn’t that unfair?
A. No. The order was decided by separate coin tosses.
posted by SweetTeaAndABiscuit at 12:23 PM on October 22, 2012
How did THAT happen?
Q. Wait a minute. Isn’t that unfair?
A. No. The order was decided by separate coin tosses.
(it's like you "flipped a coin twice and heads came up both times")
posted by mikepop at 12:23 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]
Q. Wait a minute. Isn’t that unfair?
A. No. The order was decided by separate coin tosses.
(it's like you "flipped a coin twice and heads came up both times")
posted by mikepop at 12:23 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]
I feel like the Tagg Romney voting machine story is a bit overblown. The machines are only in 2 of 88 Ohio counties, and while it's certainly possible that this would be enough to swing a close election, I think there are many more likely scenarios involving electoral fraud / dirty tricks that don't involve these rigged machines producing the necessary votes to swing the outcome. There are far greater weaknesses in our system of recording and tallying votes that could produce a much larger margin with less smoking gun evidence in the event that someone decides to investigate what went wrong in those two counties.
I'm not saying EVM fraud / exploitation doesn't happen -- it most certainly does -- but I think people who are concerned about Republicans stealing elections shouldn't lose the forest for the trees.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:25 PM on October 22, 2012
I'm not saying EVM fraud / exploitation doesn't happen -- it most certainly does -- but I think people who are concerned about Republicans stealing elections shouldn't lose the forest for the trees.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:25 PM on October 22, 2012
Sorry, I realize that there are two coin tosses. I just wanted to know why.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:25 PM on October 22, 2012
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:25 PM on October 22, 2012
There's a reason the NFL doesn't do two coin tosses to determine who kicks off in each half of a football game. In addition to being a waste of time, it increases the chance that a short-term run of good fortune swings the outcome of the game. If you give the advantage to one team in the first half, it's only "fair" that you give the advantage to the other team in the second half. Or, alternately, they could give the coin toss winner (Romney) the choice of whether he'd like to open or close.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by tonycpsu at 12:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
The problem I have with understanding this - and admittedly I'm not a stats person - is that the election isn't fully probabilistic. The outcome isn't due to chance effects like a coin flip.
Because polls question only a sample of the population, there is always a chance of sampling error, that is, of drawing a sample that is unrepresentative. For instance, in a political poll, it is possible that a random sample of voters would consist entirely of Democrats, though this is highly unlikely. However, less extreme errors of the same kind are not so unlikely, and this means that every poll has some degree of imprecision or fuzziness. Because the sample may not be precisely representative of the population as a whole, there is some chance that the poll results will be off by a certain amount. Statisticians measure the chance of this kind of error by the "margin of error", or "MoE" for short.
The MoE takes the form "±N%", where usually N=3 in national polls. This margin determines what is called a "confidence interval": for example, if the percentage of a sample who supports candidate R is 46%, and the MoE is ±3%, then the confidence interval is 43-49%. In turn, the confidence interval and the MoE are determined by the "level of confidence", which is usually set at 95% in national polls. What this means is that one can have confidence that in 19 out of 20 such samples the percentage of the population who support candidate R will fall within the confidence interval. So, the chance of the poll being off by more than the MoE is only 5%.
posted by ersatz at 12:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
Because polls question only a sample of the population, there is always a chance of sampling error, that is, of drawing a sample that is unrepresentative. For instance, in a political poll, it is possible that a random sample of voters would consist entirely of Democrats, though this is highly unlikely. However, less extreme errors of the same kind are not so unlikely, and this means that every poll has some degree of imprecision or fuzziness. Because the sample may not be precisely representative of the population as a whole, there is some chance that the poll results will be off by a certain amount. Statisticians measure the chance of this kind of error by the "margin of error", or "MoE" for short.
The MoE takes the form "±N%", where usually N=3 in national polls. This margin determines what is called a "confidence interval": for example, if the percentage of a sample who supports candidate R is 46%, and the MoE is ±3%, then the confidence interval is 43-49%. In turn, the confidence interval and the MoE are determined by the "level of confidence", which is usually set at 95% in national polls. What this means is that one can have confidence that in 19 out of 20 such samples the percentage of the population who support candidate R will fall within the confidence interval. So, the chance of the poll being off by more than the MoE is only 5%.
posted by ersatz at 12:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
Romney earned those coin flips fair and square.
posted by fleacircus at 12:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by fleacircus at 12:36 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
The machines are only in 2 of 88 Ohio counties
But from what I can see thus far, Hart Intercivic products are used in other states:
posted by cashman at 12:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]
But from what I can see thus far, Hart Intercivic products are used in other states:
all counties of Texas, the entire states of Hawaii and Oklahoma, half of Washington and Colorado, and certain counties in Ohio, California, Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Texas, Virginia and Washington.[1]As has been noted on other sites, if Obama had a connection like this there would be a deafening uproar.
posted by cashman at 12:37 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]
I wish Nate Silver included a better visual of the range of predicted outcomes like Sam Wang does here. It's a lot more clear to me than posting some hard numbers and the margin of error in your forecast section and only really expanding on why those numbers might be off and by how much in the supplementary blog posts.
posted by jason_steakums at 12:41 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by jason_steakums at 12:41 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm worried that freaking about the machines and whatnot makes me look like a birther or truther. But then I think back to the fall of 2000, a simpler time, long ago.
posted by angrycat at 12:42 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by angrycat at 12:42 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romney earned those coin flips fair and square.
Look, if you've flipped a coin, if it's come up heads, if you've won a coin toss, it's—you didn't build that. Someone along the line helped out, minting the coin, inventing heads and tails, creating the infrastructure for tossing coins.
posted by albrecht at 12:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]
Look, if you've flipped a coin, if it's come up heads, if you've won a coin toss, it's—you didn't build that. Someone along the line helped out, minting the coin, inventing heads and tails, creating the infrastructure for tossing coins.
posted by albrecht at 12:43 PM on October 22, 2012 [8 favorites]
I feel like the Tagg Romney voting machine story is a bit overblown.
I'm more concerned about Josh Romney. That guy must be up to something.
posted by homunculus at 12:45 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm more concerned about Josh Romney. That guy must be up to something.
posted by homunculus at 12:45 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm worried that freaking about the machines and whatnot makes me look like a birther or truther.
I'm not even freaked out about it. The people who should be the most freaked out about it are the Romneys themselves. You would think that long ago they would have gotten rid of those affiliations. Instead, as someone here noted, they invested further in those companies after Mitt started running for president.
Actual, undenied, verified business transactions are up for scrutiny, in my view. It's sad that the republicans have gone so far off the deep end in the birther realm, or that the controlled demolition people have gone off that way, that anybody thinks that examining documented business transactions and relationships, especially with the information we have about interlocking directorates and the way power works in this society, should be in any way seen as being crazy or weird.
posted by cashman at 12:52 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm not even freaked out about it. The people who should be the most freaked out about it are the Romneys themselves. You would think that long ago they would have gotten rid of those affiliations. Instead, as someone here noted, they invested further in those companies after Mitt started running for president.
Actual, undenied, verified business transactions are up for scrutiny, in my view. It's sad that the republicans have gone so far off the deep end in the birther realm, or that the controlled demolition people have gone off that way, that anybody thinks that examining documented business transactions and relationships, especially with the information we have about interlocking directorates and the way power works in this society, should be in any way seen as being crazy or weird.
posted by cashman at 12:52 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
A Magic:The Gathering Binder Full Of Women
Tina Fey (1/2) , Creature - Mimic (1 UU):
TEXT: Tap, UU - Tina Fey gains the text abilities printed on any other creature card in play until the end of the turn.
You betcha'!
also a tumblr
posted by the man of twists and turns at 12:54 PM on October 22, 2012
Tina Fey (1/2) , Creature - Mimic (1 UU):
TEXT: Tap, UU - Tina Fey gains the text abilities printed on any other creature card in play until the end of the turn.
You betcha'!
also a tumblr
posted by the man of twists and turns at 12:54 PM on October 22, 2012
I wish Nate Silver included a better visual of the range of predicted outcomes like Sam Wang does here.That's exactly what the Electoral Vote Distribution chart on 538 does, only it's even better. Every simulated EV outcome is there, with the height corresponding to how many times it came up in the simulations.
posted by dfan at 1:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Stop Over-Interpreting The First Presidential Debate
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:09 PM on October 22, 2012
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:09 PM on October 22, 2012
cashman: " As has been noted on other sites, if Obama had a connection like this there would be a deafening uproar."
Oh, I don't doubt that at all, but just because wingnuts rend their garments at the slightest possibility of wrongdoing, that doesn't mean the left has to follow their lead and freak out before there's sufficient evidence of a problem.
There are far more likely boring and under-the-radar ways to steal the election that we should focus on. We should, of course, keep an eye out for suspicious correlations in the returns of Hart Interivc machines vs. the returns from other machines and paper ballots, but I wouldn't waste oxygen on this one while actual voter intimidation is going on that is probably dwarfs the number of potential miscounted / fraudulent EVM votes.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:10 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Oh, I don't doubt that at all, but just because wingnuts rend their garments at the slightest possibility of wrongdoing, that doesn't mean the left has to follow their lead and freak out before there's sufficient evidence of a problem.
There are far more likely boring and under-the-radar ways to steal the election that we should focus on. We should, of course, keep an eye out for suspicious correlations in the returns of Hart Interivc machines vs. the returns from other machines and paper ballots, but I wouldn't waste oxygen on this one while actual voter intimidation is going on that is probably dwarfs the number of potential miscounted / fraudulent EVM votes.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:10 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
That's exactly what the Electoral Vote Distribution chart on 538 does, only it's even better. Every simulated EV outcome is there, with the height corresponding to how many times it came up in the simulations.
That huge spike at around 330 EV for Obama make that one seem a bit odd. Honest question, what's the deal with that spike?
posted by jason_steakums at 1:15 PM on October 22, 2012
That huge spike at around 330 EV for Obama make that one seem a bit odd. Honest question, what's the deal with that spike?
posted by jason_steakums at 1:15 PM on October 22, 2012
angrycat:The Brad Blog covers just about everything you'd ever want to know about elections and voting machines, v.q. Stealing America. Needless to say, Brad disagrees with Chuck Todd's assessment that, "voting machine conspiracies belong in same category as the Trump birther garbage."I'm worried that freaking about the machines and whatnot makes me look like a birther or truther. But then I think back to the fall of 2000, a simpler time, long ago.
Voting machines stink no matter who owns them. My family and friends know I'm a programmer and database designer for a living. They all asked me about the voting machines when they were installed here. I said then and I say now that a digital computer is inappropriate for counting votes. I can't say I agree with everything written at The Brad Blog, but I definitely agree with his article entitled
Democracy's Gold Standard, viz. fully observable, precinct-based, Election Night hand-counting of hand-marked paper ballots.
posted by ob1quixote at 1:22 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Romnesia explained, by Mitt Romney himself.
posted by ericb at 1:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ericb at 1:25 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
NYT:
"'Paul Ryan shirtless' is currently Googled 9 times more often than 'Paul Ryan budget.' Don’t ask me why, but 'Paul Ryan shirtless' is Googled more frequently in blue states than in red."posted by ericb at 1:26 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
That huge spike at around 330 EV for Obama make that one seem a bit odd. Honest question, what's the deal with that spike?It's just the single most likely EV outcome, although it still only happens 13% of the time. I bet it's the result that occurs if Obama wins every state he's currently favored in and loses every one in which he's an underdog.
posted by dfan at 1:27 PM on October 22, 2012
"'Paul Ryan shirtless' is currently Googled 9 times more often than 'Paul Ryan budget.' Don’t ask me why, but 'Paul Ryan shirtless' is Googled more frequently in blue states than in red."
Allow me to introduce you to the phrase "hate fuck."
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Allow me to introduce you to the phrase "hate fuck."
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Also, because electoral math is so discrete (you get all of a state's EVs or none, except for a couple of cases), the graph of outcomes looks really spiky. You can even get spikes laid on top of each other, like if scenario A has Obama winning a state with 11 EV but losing states with 7 and 4, and scenario B has the reverse; those two outcomes look the same as far as total number of EVs goes.
posted by dfan at 1:32 PM on October 22, 2012
posted by dfan at 1:32 PM on October 22, 2012
I would wager Optical scan vote counting is as accurate, if not more, than hand counting. In the 2008 MN recount, where we use Optical scan, the accuracy rate was (yes) literally 99.91% - 99.99% (depending on how you measured errors).
But either way, hand count or optical scan count both maintain one vital, absolutely essential piece of the puzzle. The have a clean, clear, reliable and readable paper trail.
posted by edgeways at 1:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
But either way, hand count or optical scan count both maintain one vital, absolutely essential piece of the puzzle. The have a clean, clear, reliable and readable paper trail.
posted by edgeways at 1:34 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I found this ... reassuring electronic ballot answer when I was digging around the Bexar County Elections website earlier:
posted by muddgirl at 1:38 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
How do I make sure my vote is recorded?Whoever wrote that bit of question evasion should run for president.
As you vote, make your choices carefully. When you have finished voting, you will have the opportunity to review your choices on a review screen. At that point, the red vote button at the top of the screen will be flashing. After you are satisfied with your ballot choices, touch the flashing red button and your votes will be cast and recorded inside the voting unit. Your votes will remain secure in the voting unit until election officials retrieve the votes for tabulation.
posted by muddgirl at 1:38 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
This is old am I'm sure everybody has seen it a thousand times, but still funny: Electronic Voting via the Simpsons
posted by edgeways at 1:46 PM on October 22, 2012
posted by edgeways at 1:46 PM on October 22, 2012
The idea that a candidate's family owns a stake in a voting machine company is such a laughably villainous conflict of interest that I sort of admire their moxie.
Democracy, you're doing it wrong.
posted by fullerine at 1:50 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]
Democracy, you're doing it wrong.
posted by fullerine at 1:50 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]
"'Paul Ryan shirtless' is currently Googled 9 times more often than 'Paul Ryan budget.' Don’t ask me why, but 'Paul Ryan shirtless' is Googled more frequently in blue states than in red."
Allow me to introduce you to the phrase "hate fuck."
Allow me to introduce you to the phrase "for the lulz."
posted by jaduncan at 1:50 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
Allow me to introduce you to the phrase "hate fuck."
Allow me to introduce you to the phrase "for the lulz."
posted by jaduncan at 1:50 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
Will the Candidates End the "Climate Silence" Tonight?
posted by homunculus at 1:52 PM on October 22, 2012
posted by homunculus at 1:52 PM on October 22, 2012
Will the Candidates End the "Climate Silence" Tonight?
We already know that's a no.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:54 PM on October 22, 2012
We already know that's a no.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:54 PM on October 22, 2012
hey, this seems like a good place to encourage people to VOLUNTEER!!! here in gotham, I'm fortunate enough to have a phone bank location a block away, so I can pop over there for an hour hear and there and speak with the good people of Ohio with great convenience. You should do the same! For however long you can. It's important. It will make you feel better about complaining, regardless of the outcome. It's a participatory democracy, ffs!
posted by fingers_of_fire at 1:54 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by fingers_of_fire at 1:54 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
Oh me oh my:
Donald Trump claims Barack Obama bombshell
posted by Theta States at 1:56 PM on October 22, 2012
Donald Trump claims Barack Obama bombshell
posted by Theta States at 1:56 PM on October 22, 2012
Donald Trump, Gloria Allred Rumored To Have “October Surprises” For Campaigns
posted by homunculus at 1:56 PM on October 22, 2012
posted by homunculus at 1:56 PM on October 22, 2012
You can even call from your home phone. Just go to https://call.barackobama.com, sign up if you haven't already, and start making calls.
I want to make calls to one of the swing states, but the call scripts are too localized - I'd feel weird saying something about 'our town' to someone in Ohio when I'm from Texas and living in Austria.
posted by syzygy at 1:57 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
I want to make calls to one of the swing states, but the call scripts are too localized - I'd feel weird saying something about 'our town' to someone in Ohio when I'm from Texas and living in Austria.
posted by syzygy at 1:57 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
Donald Trump claims Barack Obama bombshell
Donald Trump every time: "You guys! Hey! You guys! He's a black!"
posted by jaduncan at 1:58 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]
Donald Trump every time: "You guys! Hey! You guys! He's a black!"
posted by jaduncan at 1:58 PM on October 22, 2012 [6 favorites]
What Are the Gobshites Saying These Days?
posted by homunculus at 1:58 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 1:58 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
LOL Donald Trump. I'm sorry, anything that comes out of a birther's mouth deserves not to be covered by any press.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:58 PM on October 22, 2012
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:58 PM on October 22, 2012
Will the Candidates End the "Climate Silence" Tonight?
Coverage for game 7 of the NLCS (St. Louis versus San Fran) starts at 7:30pm tonight, and the game and coverage will probably end at 11:30. That's just a half hour shy of the entire presidential debate time we got for the entire 2012 campaign. Coverage for Monday Night Football, Chicago vs Detroit (clever, NFL, clever) starts at 7:00 pm with Monday Night Countdown, and the game and coverage will end sometime around 12:00 am, which will match the entire presidential debate time America got for the entire 2012 campaign. Again, pardon me while I go weep.
posted by cashman at 2:01 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]
"After last week's debate, moderator Candy Crowley said she had a question "for all you climate people," but she didn't get to it before the debate wrapped up."Pardon me while I go cry now. How on earth are we pressed for time?
Coverage for game 7 of the NLCS (St. Louis versus San Fran) starts at 7:30pm tonight, and the game and coverage will probably end at 11:30. That's just a half hour shy of the entire presidential debate time we got for the entire 2012 campaign. Coverage for Monday Night Football, Chicago vs Detroit (clever, NFL, clever) starts at 7:00 pm with Monday Night Countdown, and the game and coverage will end sometime around 12:00 am, which will match the entire presidential debate time America got for the entire 2012 campaign. Again, pardon me while I go weep.
posted by cashman at 2:01 PM on October 22, 2012 [4 favorites]
From the comments of Homunculus' Gobshites link:
Is it possible that Peggy Noonan GAVE Reagan Alzheimer's?posted by Joey Michaels at 2:17 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
Donald Trump claims Barack Obama bombshell
I give the octsurprise.com guys that already got outed as rickrollers better odds of having an actual October Surprise than Donald Trump.
posted by TwoWordReview at 2:22 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
I give the octsurprise.com guys that already got outed as rickrollers better odds of having an actual October Surprise than Donald Trump.
posted by TwoWordReview at 2:22 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
This is a shout out to all the political homies in the house, we kickin' it in a new thread.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:58 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:58 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
More and more the Gallup results that we are getting just seem completely ridiculous. I can possibly see Romney +/- 2% either way but leading Obama by 7% points just seems completely outside of all likelihood. It is an presidential election after all and the only way the screens that Gallup are using make sense is if we've returned in time to 2000 and democratic voter turnout is way way reduced. Yeah Romney is producing significant leads in the south which will likely come to naught but there just aren't enough people living in red states to explain the likely voter / registered voter discrepancy being generated. Even Rasmussen who is hardly an unbiased pollster seems to be suggesting no more than a slight lead for Romney.
posted by vuron at 2:58 PM on October 22, 2012
posted by vuron at 2:58 PM on October 22, 2012
Gallup finally figured out a way to account for voter disenfranchisement.
posted by fleacircus at 3:07 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by fleacircus at 3:07 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
Bain Workers Drop 40ft Tall Message at Romney HQ
I think we broke the first link so I'll wait to comment on that, but it seems to me that if Mitt Romney personally went door-to-door telling his supporters, "Do not vote for me. Vote for President Obama." they would not believe him, either.
On preview: I cannot wait to hear how this Clear Channel development unfolded.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:08 PM on October 22, 2012
I think we broke the first link so I'll wait to comment on that, but it seems to me that if Mitt Romney personally went door-to-door telling his supporters, "Do not vote for me. Vote for President Obama." they would not believe him, either.
On preview: I cannot wait to hear how this Clear Channel development unfolded.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:08 PM on October 22, 2012
This is a shout out to all the political homies in the house, we kickin' it in a new thread.
Nooo we've made 3040 comments in 6 days! We can beat the record we just set last week!
posted by muddgirl at 3:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Nooo we've made 3040 comments in 6 days! We can beat the record we just set last week!
posted by muddgirl at 3:09 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ohio voter fraud billboards to come down, sponsor stays unnamed
posted by futz at 3:17 PM on October 22, 2012
posted by futz at 3:17 PM on October 22, 2012
I found some offerings in the fridge. I wasn't sure whose they were so I burnt the shit out of them in honor of the motherthread. This guarantees an Obama win with a 95% confidence level according to my methodology.
posted by fleacircus at 3:26 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by fleacircus at 3:26 PM on October 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
Ohio voter fraud billboards to come down, sponsor stays unnamed
More than 140 billboards in Ohio and Wisconsin warning of the criminal consequences of voter fraud will be taken downposted by Room 641-A at 3:29 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
[...]
In response to the outcry, Clear Channel Outdoor donated 10 billboards around the Cleveland area that read "Voting Is a Right. Not a Crime!"
How long before they start calling voting an entitlement?
posted by dfan at 3:35 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by dfan at 3:35 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
After discussions, the sponsor, whom Clear Channel Outdoor has called a "private family foundation" but declined to name
Romney family? Koch brothers? WalMart heirs?
So many families, so much hate.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:03 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
Romney family? Koch brothers? WalMart heirs?
So many families, so much hate.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:03 PM on October 22, 2012 [3 favorites]
Romney earned those coin flips fair and square.
Ya, sure. Little known fact: the coin came from Tagg Romney's pocket. Tagg. TAG(G). Get it?
posted by madamjujujive at 4:08 PM on October 22, 2012
Ya, sure. Little known fact: the coin came from Tagg Romney's pocket. Tagg. TAG(G). Get it?
posted by madamjujujive at 4:08 PM on October 22, 2012
Hey, have we designated a thread for tonight's debate? Cause this beastie is about unmanageable, especially if we tried to liveblog it like we always do.
posted by dejah420 at 4:14 PM on October 22, 2012
posted by dejah420 at 4:14 PM on October 22, 2012
Has anyone posted the full-throated, compelling and comprehensive endorsement from the New Yorker? Best summary of the Obama case I've seen. His reelection is a "matter of great urgency", indeed.
posted by Rumple at 4:14 PM on October 22, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by Rumple at 4:14 PM on October 22, 2012 [7 favorites]
Hey, have we designated a thread for tonight's debate? Cause this beastie is about unmanageable, especially if we tried to liveblog it like we always do.
At this point there are two threads. The scuttlebutt has it that the first is for the drinkers and the second is for the teetotalers, but that is just crazy talk.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:18 PM on October 22, 2012
At this point there are two threads. The scuttlebutt has it that the first is for the drinkers and the second is for the teetotalers, but that is just crazy talk.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:18 PM on October 22, 2012
Two threads, plus this thread, you mean. It's a three-way battle...
posted by kaibutsu at 4:20 PM on October 22, 2012
posted by kaibutsu at 4:20 PM on October 22, 2012
Ok, now that there are TWO new debate threads, I'll stick with my original plan. Which is to stay put. Right here.
posted by iamkimiam at 4:21 PM on October 22, 2012
posted by iamkimiam at 4:21 PM on October 22, 2012
In the words of a famous political analyst, 'SPLITTERS!'
posted by ersatz at 4:30 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ersatz at 4:30 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Has anyone posted the full-throated, compelling and comprehensive endorsement from the New Yorker? Best summary of the Obama case I've seen. His reelection is a "matter of great urgency", indeed.
posted by Rumple
I just read it; it brought tears to my eyes.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:31 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Rumple
I just read it; it brought tears to my eyes.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:31 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
The scuttlebutt has it that the first is for the drinkers and the second is for the teetotalers, but that is just crazy talk.
I was going to make one for the stoners but I keep forgetting.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:35 PM on October 22, 2012 [7 favorites]
I was going to make one for the stoners but I keep forgetting.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:35 PM on October 22, 2012 [7 favorites]
Oh man, I just got a call from the local Republican something something something or other. Calling me to remind me that early voting is starting, and I should go vote against the democrat.
Now, see...here's the thing; I've been a yellow dog democrat my entire life. I have never voted for a republican. But somehow, since the primary, I've been listed as a Republican; I'm getting mailers from the George Bush Library asking me to donate, candidates call, fundraisers call, and then today the reminder to go vote against those evil democrats so we can take back the country.
When I asked who we were taking it back from; the caller responded, and I swear to god I wish I could have recorded this, but it's true, but he paused, and in sotto voice, he said:
"You know...them."
Yeah; yeah, I do know who "them" are.
Them are the less than lily white. Them are the workers. Them are the poor women cleaning your toilet. Them are the busboys cleaning your restaurants. Them are the women you sneer at for wearing a veil. Them are the single moms you call whores, them are the Mexicans you ridicule, and the Jews you hate, and the Blacks who don't know their place. Them are the children who get their only meal of the day at school. Them are the silent grease that keeps the wheels of your machine running, mister man. Yeah, I know them. I am them.
And you can bet your happy little conservative ass, mr call me on the phone to tell me I'm a lesser human, that I will be casting a vote tomorrow. For me. For Them. And even for you. Because my vote is for Us.
posted by dejah420 at 5:02 PM on October 22, 2012 [46 favorites]
Now, see...here's the thing; I've been a yellow dog democrat my entire life. I have never voted for a republican. But somehow, since the primary, I've been listed as a Republican; I'm getting mailers from the George Bush Library asking me to donate, candidates call, fundraisers call, and then today the reminder to go vote against those evil democrats so we can take back the country.
When I asked who we were taking it back from; the caller responded, and I swear to god I wish I could have recorded this, but it's true, but he paused, and in sotto voice, he said:
"You know...them."
Yeah; yeah, I do know who "them" are.
Them are the less than lily white. Them are the workers. Them are the poor women cleaning your toilet. Them are the busboys cleaning your restaurants. Them are the women you sneer at for wearing a veil. Them are the single moms you call whores, them are the Mexicans you ridicule, and the Jews you hate, and the Blacks who don't know their place. Them are the children who get their only meal of the day at school. Them are the silent grease that keeps the wheels of your machine running, mister man. Yeah, I know them. I am them.
And you can bet your happy little conservative ass, mr call me on the phone to tell me I'm a lesser human, that I will be casting a vote tomorrow. For me. For Them. And even for you. Because my vote is for Us.
posted by dejah420 at 5:02 PM on October 22, 2012 [46 favorites]
Dejah, man. I wish you'd put that in the new thread as well...Fuck. I want to tweet that out to people.
posted by Skygazer at 5:48 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Skygazer at 5:48 PM on October 22, 2012 [1 favorite]
Hey, have we designated a thread for tonight's debate? Cause this beastie is about unmanageable, especially if we tried to liveblog it like we always do.
I'd say it's this thread. It's a lot more lively than the other one, which is more like an homage to Bob Schieffer.
posted by homunculus at 5:58 PM on October 22, 2012
I'd say it's this thread. It's a lot more lively than the other one, which is more like an homage to Bob Schieffer.
posted by homunculus at 5:58 PM on October 22, 2012
The plot thickens in the Virginia voter registration scandal
Virginia voter fraud probe into GOP firm may include up to 40 voter registration employees
posted by homunculus at 10:21 AM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
Virginia voter fraud probe into GOP firm may include up to 40 voter registration employees
posted by homunculus at 10:21 AM on November 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
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