Michael Moore on Elian Gonzalez
April 4, 2000 2:20 PM Subscribe
Michael Moore on Elian Gonzalez Mr. TV Nation weighs in, sarcastic but still makes a point
I have to agree. I think it's a crime to use a 6 year old as a pawn.
And, btw, I am pretty disgusted by Gore's attempt to cash in on this politically. So transparent.
Geez. Is there no finesse in politics anymore?!
posted by Taken Outtacontext at 5:57 AM on April 5, 2000
And, btw, I am pretty disgusted by Gore's attempt to cash in on this politically. So transparent.
posted by Taken Outtacontext at 5:57 AM on April 5, 2000
Um... are you all insane? Micheal Moore is a complete moron. What is this communist garbage? He really believes Cuba has 100% literacy and free health care for whoever needs it? yeah, I suppose Cuba is just this wonderful place, which is why no one is allowed to leave and people have to risk their lives fleeing on rafts to get to the United States. Oh wait, the Cubans who do that must be just a few crazy people...
Bullocks! I find this all very very sad. Total nonsense.
posted by andy at 10:03 PM on April 5, 2000
Bullocks! I find this all very very sad. Total nonsense.
posted by andy at 10:03 PM on April 5, 2000
Moore's commentary maybe opinionated or even inaccurate. However, the fact remains that this child is being used, used by people in Cuba, used by people here, and used by both the governments of Cuba and the US.
That is very, very sad.
There was a related case reported on Dateline this week. In the mid 70s a father brought over his two young children from, then Communist Czechoslovakia (the father had divorced their mother, who had remarried and was still living in Cz). The father died, and a foster family successfully fought to keep them in this country (the judge was interviewed and said his final decision was not based on politics but rather on the fact that when the mother came to this country for the trial, she showed very little interest in re-establishing a relationship with her two children).
The boy, now a man with his own family was interviewed on the program and his advice for Elian's future: let an unbiased group of people who have the child's best interest determine whether he will stay here or return to Cuba.
I think that's the best advice I've heard so far.
posted by Taken Outtacontext at 5:51 AM on April 6, 2000
That is very, very sad.
There was a related case reported on Dateline this week. In the mid 70s a father brought over his two young children from, then Communist Czechoslovakia (the father had divorced their mother, who had remarried and was still living in Cz). The father died, and a foster family successfully fought to keep them in this country (the judge was interviewed and said his final decision was not based on politics but rather on the fact that when the mother came to this country for the trial, she showed very little interest in re-establishing a relationship with her two children).
The boy, now a man with his own family was interviewed on the program and his advice for Elian's future: let an unbiased group of people who have the child's best interest determine whether he will stay here or return to Cuba.
I think that's the best advice I've heard so far.
posted by Taken Outtacontext at 5:51 AM on April 6, 2000
uno: in general, people in the US have no idea of what life is like in Cuba, because of the restrictions on travel, and the de facto media embargo. I've heard so many ignorant blanket judgements on "life under Castro" from people who've been fed the party line by the US media, it's silly.
dos: the Cuban-American population of Miami displays a similar arrogance to the NRA. It's as if the pre-revolutionary corruption has been transplanted to Florida.
tres: the boy should go home with his dad. It's a no-brainer.
And Gore's comments are shameful and embarrassing.
posted by holgate at 11:29 AM on April 6, 2000
dos: the Cuban-American population of Miami displays a similar arrogance to the NRA. It's as if the pre-revolutionary corruption has been transplanted to Florida.
tres: the boy should go home with his dad. It's a no-brainer.
And Gore's comments are shameful and embarrassing.
posted by holgate at 11:29 AM on April 6, 2000
I don't think it's a no brainer. I think the boy should stay here in the US.
uno: Under normal circumstances, the father should get custody of the child when the mother dies. The father should decide whether the child should stay in the U.S. or come back to Cuba. The father seems to want the child back, but...
dos: remember, the father is living in Cuba. He pretty much has to do what the government says. If he wanted Elian to stay in the U.S., he couldn't say so, or else the party could make his life in Cuba very unpleasant.
tres: Lacking the father's real opinion, we need to choose what is best for the boy. The rest of his relatives want him here, and it's probably what's best for him, if you simply compare the number of people who have emigrated from Cuba to the U.S. and vice versa. Despite what Micheal Moore-on says, he won't be able to come back to the U.S. when he's 18 on his own free will if he goes to Cuba.
quatro: I suspect the father wants the boy to stay here. He knew the mother and the boy were making an escape to Florida, and he did nothing to stop them. He heard his son was found and brought to the U.S. He still said nothing. He didn't start to say anything until Castro started making speeches about this whole matter.
I think Castro is ultimately to blame. He killed Elian's mother. And I also found Michael's comments on the ex-Cubans frankly revolting. He presumes to know more about their situation than they do, and calls the cowardly? Asshole...
posted by andy at 2:14 PM on April 6, 2000
uno: Under normal circumstances, the father should get custody of the child when the mother dies. The father should decide whether the child should stay in the U.S. or come back to Cuba. The father seems to want the child back, but...
dos: remember, the father is living in Cuba. He pretty much has to do what the government says. If he wanted Elian to stay in the U.S., he couldn't say so, or else the party could make his life in Cuba very unpleasant.
tres: Lacking the father's real opinion, we need to choose what is best for the boy. The rest of his relatives want him here, and it's probably what's best for him, if you simply compare the number of people who have emigrated from Cuba to the U.S. and vice versa. Despite what Micheal Moore-on says, he won't be able to come back to the U.S. when he's 18 on his own free will if he goes to Cuba.
quatro: I suspect the father wants the boy to stay here. He knew the mother and the boy were making an escape to Florida, and he did nothing to stop them. He heard his son was found and brought to the U.S. He still said nothing. He didn't start to say anything until Castro started making speeches about this whole matter.
I think Castro is ultimately to blame. He killed Elian's mother. And I also found Michael's comments on the ex-Cubans frankly revolting. He presumes to know more about their situation than they do, and calls the cowardly? Asshole...
posted by andy at 2:14 PM on April 6, 2000
I think Castro is ultimately to blame. He killed Elian's mother.
So Castro controls the tides now? Bollocks. He's certainly laughing his tits off at the idiotic way the US is handling this. Had Elian come from Haiti, the Dominican Republic, or (god forbid!) Mexico, he'd have been on a plane faster than you could say "deportation".
And believe it or not, I think the poor kid would be better off shielded in embargoed Cuba with his dad, rather than turned into a poltical poster child for his assorted third cousins in Little Havana. Do you really think he'll have a "proper" upbringing in the US? Every time the poor sod appears in public, he's garbed like a fashion pull-out.
The Guardian calls it a "national disgrace". I couldn't put it better:
http://www.newsunlimited.co.uk/leaders/story/0,3604,154434,00.html
posted by holgate at 2:44 PM on April 6, 2000
posted by holgate at 2:44 PM on April 6, 2000
"So Castro controls the tides now?" Certainly not, but if he simply let people leave his country when they wanted to, they wouldn't have to risk their lives coming here, halfwit.
I think the immigration laws are unfair. If people come here seeking refuge from tryannical governments, then I don't see why we should deport them. It's the law that's wrong, so your argument that he should be deported simply because "it's what we usually do" is absurd.
posted by andy at 3:30 PM on April 6, 2000
I think the immigration laws are unfair. If people come here seeking refuge from tryannical governments, then I don't see why we should deport them. It's the law that's wrong, so your argument that he should be deported simply because "it's what we usually do" is absurd.
posted by andy at 3:30 PM on April 6, 2000
... And the final paragraph of the Guardian article expresses the same sentiment that the immigration policies are unfair.
posted by andy at 3:32 PM on April 6, 2000
posted by andy at 3:32 PM on April 6, 2000
"Halfwit"? Bitte...
posted by EngineBeak at 6:07 PM on April 6, 2000
posted by EngineBeak at 6:07 PM on April 6, 2000
Ok, sorry, I felt bad about that afterwards. I sort of just wrote that on the spur of the moment.
I'm just rather annoyed that everyone wants to deport this kids, but no one seems to have a good reason for it.
It sucks that the kids has become a pawn of everyone. But sending him back to Cuba will not change that.
posted by andy at 2:04 AM on April 7, 2000
I'm just rather annoyed that everyone wants to deport this kids, but no one seems to have a good reason for it.
It sucks that the kids has become a pawn of everyone. But sending him back to Cuba will not change that.
posted by andy at 2:04 AM on April 7, 2000
Andy, it's not about deporting Elian, it's about the circus that's developed around him. The bottom line: what's best for the child and who needs to be making the decision based on that.
posted by Taken Outtacontext at 5:46 AM on April 7, 2000
posted by Taken Outtacontext at 5:46 AM on April 7, 2000
A-a-and if we let Elian stay in th' U. S. of A., we hafta let all the darlin little Cubanitas and Cubanitos stay! 'N fact, we hafta haul some infantry d'visions inta the island and rescue all them cute widdle boys 'n' girls! Wooshy wooshy woo.
posted by EngineBeak at 9:31 AM on April 7, 2000
posted by EngineBeak at 9:31 AM on April 7, 2000
I'm sorry if I'm talking about this too much.
I agree "it's" about what's best for the child. And Enginebreak, I don't understand, why do we have to rescue every Cuban kid from Cuba if we let Elian stay? That doesn't make sense to me. I say we let any stay that get here. Grant them refugee status. Something terrible about that?
posted by andy at 1:24 PM on April 7, 2000
I agree "it's" about what's best for the child. And Enginebreak, I don't understand, why do we have to rescue every Cuban kid from Cuba if we let Elian stay? That doesn't make sense to me. I say we let any stay that get here. Grant them refugee status. Something terrible about that?
posted by andy at 1:24 PM on April 7, 2000
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
I don't want to say it but the USA looks pretty scarey when viewed from the outside, and through the window of the mass/mess media.
posted by tranquileye at 7:23 PM on April 4, 2000