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Senator Chip Rogers - Agenda 21 - Mother Jones
November 15, 2012 8:54 AM   Subscribe

Chip Rogers is the Republican Majority Leader of the Georgia State Senate, and Treasurer of ALEC (previously 1 2). On October 11th he hosted a four-hour briefing for his fellow senators, regarding Obama's mind-control techniques which are forcing the US into a United Nations-led Communist dictatorship in which suburbanites are forcibly relocated to cities. The theory is based on Agenda 21, the non-binding 1992 UN treaty on sustainable development. Rogers narrowly failed to pass a resolution against Agenda 21, but other states have done so, and Alabama has even forbidden its implementation in law.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 (132 comments total) 20 users marked this as a favorite

 
I fully support this work program for idiots based on non-existent issues that don't matter.
posted by DU at 8:56 AM on November 15, 2012 [6 favorites]


why didn't anyone tell me we get mind control powers?
posted by The Whelk at 8:57 AM on November 15, 2012 [25 favorites]


What
posted by Melismata at 8:58 AM on November 15, 2012 [2 favorites]


we were controlling your mind to keep you from knowing.
posted by boo_radley at 8:58 AM on November 15, 2012 [5 favorites]


I have lately been comforted by knowing that the Crazy Train has delayed its departure until everyone has had a chance to get on board. I hope the station master will attach a few more cars before pulling out of the station. I'd hate to see some of these guys miss the train.
posted by mule98J at 8:58 AM on November 15, 2012 [6 favorites]


I just facepalmed so hard I turned my head inside out.
posted by louche mustachio at 8:58 AM on November 15, 2012 [9 favorites]


why didn't anyone tell me we get mind control powers?


IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A SURPRISE FOR CHRISTMAS
posted by louche mustachio at 8:59 AM on November 15, 2012 [39 favorites]


"Result: TBD"
posted by Sticherbeast at 9:00 AM on November 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


One presumes Chip Rogers is okay with mind control techniques instituted by religionists. Just as long as he doesn't have to ride bicycles to church.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:02 AM on November 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


I swear, the last few years it's like the John Birch Society developed time travel back in the early 60s and have been steadily pouring members forward to take over the 21st Century.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:05 AM on November 15, 2012 [17 favorites]


I just keep reminding myself that living in Atlanta means I can keep voting for John Lewis. (I'm not in Chip Rogers's district - I get to vote for Nan Orrock, who is pretty much everything Chip isn't.)

That said, I know some folks who think Chip's what Georgia needs. I expect he'll run for governor when Nathan Deal gets primaried by folks who think he's too soft.
posted by catlet at 9:05 AM on November 15, 2012 [2 favorites]


He has mind control now? I'm still waiting for my Obamaphone, mind control UPS and tell them to hurry up!
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:08 AM on November 15, 2012



I remember in 1992, I was 20 and volunteered for Perot. There was a pretty strong undercurrent of weird and crazy, but coming out of the 80s, you sort of expected that, and seemed to belong to fringes, mostly. Then Clinton got elected, and I thought it sucked, but he wasn't a super bad candidate. Anyway, then the crazy train really got started rolling down the tracks.

I recall thinking in 1993 and 1994 that if the Republicans don't eject some of the crazier crazies, they were not going to get anywhere in politics.

Boy howdy, did I lack imagination or what ?
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:08 AM on November 15, 2012 [19 favorites]


Knowing how intelligent or skillful you are is an ability almost as important as intelligence yourself. For instance, I would never allow myself to be given power over a process that required sporting ability, because I don't have any. But this? This is a triple brain failure.

Proposed new rule: if you're going to say anything at all about the United Nations, anyone in the room has a right to ask you about how the UN is structured. If you can't answer those questions correctly, you must immediately shut up, stop what you were doing, take off your pants, and leave the room.
posted by 1adam12 at 9:09 AM on November 15, 2012 [61 favorites]


I had been wondering where this Agenda 21 stuff had been bubbling up from to frothstain the comment pages of my local newspaper. Right now, the UN is behind a plot to add 30 dollars a year to our property taxes so we can clean up some parks and fix a fence on the common.

Little did I know we were also paving the very bikepaths our socialist overlords will pedal down, their jackbooted heels making no noise as their tenspeeds change gears.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:10 AM on November 15, 2012 [31 favorites]


He has mind control now? I'm still waiting for my Obamaphone, mind control UPS and tell them to hurry up!

You're not getting your Obamaphone from USPS?

BAD SOCIALIST!
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:10 AM on November 15, 2012 [4 favorites]


how the UN is structured...shut up, stop what you were doing, take off your pants, and leave the room.

That's..not how the U.N. functions?
posted by obscurator at 9:10 AM on November 15, 2012 [3 favorites]


Huh, didn't know I needed another reason to hate ALEC, but here I am. Thanks for that, I guess?
posted by aramaic at 9:11 AM on November 15, 2012 [2 favorites]


Chip Rogers is running on the anti-mutant campaign.
posted by cazoo at 9:11 AM on November 15, 2012 [5 favorites]


I swear, the last few years it's like the John Birch Society developed time travel back in the early 60s and have been steadily pouring members forward to take over the 21st Century.

I think I saw that Fringe episode.
posted by The Whelk at 9:12 AM on November 15, 2012 [10 favorites]


On the other hand it's not surprising Georgia doesn't like the UN after what happened with South Ossetia
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:13 AM on November 15, 2012 [56 favorites]


Sure this guy -- who is a prominent member of the Republican party and a high-ranking member of a powerful conservative activist group -- is certifiable, but Cindy Sheehan said something silly one time during a protest, so BOTH SIDES ARE EXACTLY THE SAME!

(So vote Republican)
posted by dirigibleman at 9:14 AM on November 15, 2012 [19 favorites]


.
posted by zombieApoc at 9:14 AM on November 15, 2012


Georgia is awful. Really. I've lived here for the better part of a decade, and I refuse to leave Atlanta anymore. I used to work for the state, and these really are the types of people that end up making decisions about how money is spent and what policies are pursued. Loons. Real, honest to god, loons. I need to fucking move.

"The presentation also featured a special video cameo from conservative talking-head Dick Morris in which the former Clinton aide warns that Obama 'wants to force everyone into the cities from whence our ancestors fled.'"


And Dick Morris is on the very short list of people I have never met who will get unceremoniously kicked in the nuts if I ever run into them.
posted by dortmunder at 9:15 AM on November 15, 2012 [3 favorites]


You're not getting your Obamaphone from USPS?

BAD SOCIALIST!

Obama is nationalizing UPS with mind-control, turning delivery drivers into jackbooted government agents who KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE. What can brownshirts do for you?
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:15 AM on November 15, 2012 [6 favorites]


Lest you think this is an issue relegated to the fringes of the GOP, please note that Agenda 21 paranoia made it into this year's Republican party platform.
The national Republican Party officially adopted an anti-Agenda 21 plank in its platform last month. "We strongly reject the UN Agenda 21 as erosive of American sovereignty, and we oppose any form of UN Global Tax," it reads.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:15 AM on November 15, 2012 [5 favorites]


DEVO really was right about everything.
posted by kinnakeet at 9:17 AM on November 15, 2012 [16 favorites]


What, no batshitinsane tag?
posted by The Ardship of Cambry at 9:17 AM on November 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


And Dick Morris is on the very short list of people I have never met who will get unceremoniously kicked in the nuts if I ever run into them.

I, however, have an elaborate ceremony planned. There will be the ritual pouring of scalding hot tea down his face, the dancing dragon that bobs and swerves as it approaches, the singing of children as each leg of the dragon connects with his swollen, gangling nutsack.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:21 AM on November 15, 2012 [3 favorites]


he hosted a four-hour briefing for his fellow senators, regarding Obama's mind-control techniques which are forcing the US into a United Nations-led Communist dictatorship in which suburbanites are forcibly relocated to cities.

Pshh... Well, duh!
posted by krinklyfig at 9:21 AM on November 15, 2012


I'm seriously wondering how long it will take for these nuts to reach critical mass, and power, to maybe literally pull the trigger and do something violent. I mean...These are high-ranking elected officials, ffs, not some random trailer-park tea-partiers. Mobilize their state police (or national guard) and seize federal offices in the state? Arrest federal officials? Nothing seems too out-of-bounds given the stuff they spout.

The ability for these people to whip-up these fantasies and, en-mass, so deeply believe them is truly scary. Even scarier is that, as I said, these are high-ranking officials.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:22 AM on November 15, 2012 [4 favorites]


Proposed new rule: if you're going to say anything at all about the United Nations, anyone in the room has a right to ask you about how the UN is structured.
Standard commie sharia atheist structure.
posted by Flunkie at 9:22 AM on November 15, 2012 [3 favorites]


dick? more ass.
posted by found missing at 9:23 AM on November 15, 2012


All you Republicans wondering what went wrong? This. THIS. When normal, level-headed, smart Republicans (and I've known and been related to more than a few) do not publicly, loudly, and quickly swat this stuff down...then people are going to start judging you by the company you keep.
posted by JoanArkham at 9:24 AM on November 15, 2012 [39 favorites]


Proposed new rule:

Amendment: politically crazy/clueless people get to keep their pants* on. No, really, it's better for everyone.

Second.

All in favor? (wild applause)

All opposed? (eerie sound of wind across the empty plains).

Amendment carries.

Please continue.
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:24 AM on November 15, 2012 [2 favorites]


Georgia politics has gone insane since I moved away. It makes me sad to see, it is my home state. They have had an entire governor's election based on the Confederate battle flag. The despicable smearing of Sen. Max Cleland. Zell Miller's rant at the 2004 GOP convention. I'm sure there is more.
posted by thelonius at 9:25 AM on November 15, 2012


It is amusing to me that back in the 60's, 70's and 80's conservatives always portrayed liberals and democrats as insane loonies, but now the republicans seem to just get crazier and crazier.

This could be the best thing that ever happened to the democratic party.
posted by freakazoid at 9:25 AM on November 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


* Note: a skirt can serve as an option as well. We are inclusive, as are the politically crazy/clueless, although in a different way.
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:25 AM on November 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


There will be the ritual pouring of scalding hot tea down his face, the dancing dragon that bobs and swerves as it approaches, the singing of children as each leg of the dragon connects with his swollen, gangling nutsack.

You remain a much more accurate prognosticator than Dick Morris
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:26 AM on November 15, 2012 [2 favorites]


The John Birch reference is not out of place but the time-travel comments are. These are the fruits of the labors that began in the 40s, 50s and 60s as a conservative reaction against FDR, the New Deal and socialism (actual socialism, not authoritarianism under an assumed name). Day-to-day Republicans didn't display the crazy because the crazy was still in the back rooms and core cabals. But eventually the entire thing has to undergo a phase change and that's what we are seeing now (where "now" means "since the mid 90s").
posted by DU at 9:26 AM on November 15, 2012


1adam12: "if you're going to say anything at all about the United Nations, anyone in the room has a right to ask you about how the UN is structured. "

US HAS 4 CORNER STATES
4 CORNERS PROVES 1
DAY 1 UN IS TAUGHT EVIL.
IGNORANCE OF STATE4
SIMPLE MATH IS RETARDATION
AND EVIL EDUCATION DAMNATION.
STATELESS AMERICANS DESERVE -
AND SHALL BE EXTERMINATED.
posted by Riki tiki at 9:28 AM on November 15, 2012 [24 favorites]


On the bright side, maybe now more people will finally start accepting my theory that the hyperactive new media landscape (well, that and all the mercury and lead poisoning) has destabilized normal identity-formation processes and literally driven a significant proportion of the American population crazy as loons. Oh wait. That's not really a bright side...
posted by saulgoodman at 9:28 AM on November 15, 2012 [4 favorites]


Just a reminder, the Koch brothers dad was one of the founders of the John Birch society.
posted by drezdn at 9:29 AM on November 15, 2012 [7 favorites]


these are high-ranking officials...

Well, he is only a state senator. But still.

I think this book, written way back in 1964 (a watershed year for crazies, if ever there was one), should be required reading for anyone who registers to vote in the US: The Paranoid Style in American Politics by Richard Hofstadter
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:29 AM on November 15, 2012 [2 favorites]


Boy howdy, did I lack imagination or what ?

Results: TBD

I think your initial reasoning was right on the money. The crazies are taking over and it is sinking the Republican party at a growing rate. You do realize that conservative pundits are blaming the loss of the election not on the GOP's failure to evolve in a demographically changing America, but because Romney wasn't conservative enough and lost the base? If they go with this theory, then there won't be another GOP President for the forseeable future!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 9:29 AM on November 15, 2012


next they'll doubt Obama's Purity Of Essence
posted by The Whelk at 9:34 AM on November 15, 2012 [2 favorites]


Metafilter is such a fucking echo chamber. I wish you all wouldn't force out people who believe in mindcontrol and nefarious UN plots. Think of the lack of diversity on the site! I thought liberals were supposed to be "tolerant." We see what that means now!
posted by OmieWise at 9:34 AM on November 15, 2012 [29 favorites]


Think of the lack of diversity on the site! I thought liberals were supposed to be "tolerant."

It's not our fault that reality has a decidedly liberal bias.
posted by Talez at 9:38 AM on November 15, 2012 [5 favorites]


Can't wait for his homosexual affair to be exposed!
posted by ReeMonster at 9:39 AM on November 15, 2012 [2 favorites]


Just a reminder, the Koch brothers dad was one of the founders of the John Birch society.

And it was founded in Mitt Romney's hometown legal residence of Belmont, Massachusetts, a town which voted for Obama by an almost two-to-one margin.

Coincidence, or targeted field test of prototype mind control rays?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 9:39 AM on November 15, 2012


This guy should definatly be at the next TED conference. That would be hilarious.
posted by mcmile at 9:44 AM on November 15, 2012 [6 favorites]


in which suburbanites are forcibly relocated to cities.

You'd think it would be the people in the cities who'd be up in arms about this.
posted by doctor_negative at 9:45 AM on November 15, 2012 [27 favorites]


Obama hasn't been the same since he returned from Mars. I heard mind control is popular there.

Also in Missississpissi.
posted by mule98J at 9:45 AM on November 15, 2012


"I fully support this work program for idiots based on non-existent issues that don't matter."

Until the crazy starts to affect you, that is. There are wide swaths of the country where you cannot talk about flood mitigation, installing sidewalks, or changing the zoning to relegalize living above a storefront without these people showing up and scotching it.
posted by ocschwar at 9:45 AM on November 15, 2012 [4 favorites]


I really don't understand how people like this win elections anywhere. It seems like anyone could come by and replace him by running on a 'My opponent is a paranoid schizophrenic, I'm not even kidding, look at the stuff he says' ticket.
posted by Mitrovarr at 9:46 AM on November 15, 2012 [12 favorites]


suburbanites are forcibly relocated to cities

I do not approve of this at all!

They might try to open an Applebee's down the street, and then we'd have to move!
posted by backseatpilot at 9:47 AM on November 15, 2012 [2 favorites]


What makes people want to believe in this stuff? Lack of perspective, lack of imagination, childish egoism, insecurity in one's place in a changing world?
posted by uncleozzy at 9:47 AM on November 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


I really don't understand how people like this win elections anywhere. It seems like anyone could come by and replace him by running on a 'My opponent is a paranoid schizophrenic, I'm not even kidding, look at the stuff he says' ticket.

Most voters aren't that smart? They have little to no critical thinking ability? They first see the things with which they agree with the loon, and then figure that either that's good enough, or that might mean that he's right about other stuff too?

Think for a minute about the prevalence (and apparent success) of Internet cons.
posted by OmieWise at 9:50 AM on November 15, 2012


mule98J: He really needs to tell teens down here in Miss. to use contraception and about how getting pregnant as a teen is not a great idea. Etc. Also, please allow your fellow drivers to merge on the Interstate, and also tell all drivers to please use turn signals. This is a problem in Georgia as well.
posted by raysmj at 9:50 AM on November 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


What makes people want to believe in this stuff? Lack of perspective, lack of imagination, childish egoism, insecurity in one's place in a changing world?

it really makes you wonder how easy it might be to plant even crazier "truths" on them to see how far over the edge they will go.

Did you hear? All the conservatives in Mississippi have to be sterilized. It's part of Obamacare!
posted by Thorzdad at 9:53 AM on November 15, 2012 [2 favorites]


I really think it's about time for basic mental health examinations to be a requirement for public office.
posted by Aquaman at 9:54 AM on November 15, 2012 [4 favorites]


OmieWise: Most voters aren't that smart? They have little to no critical thinking ability? They first see the things with which they agree with the loon, and then figure that either that's good enough, or that might mean that he's right about other stuff too?

Think for a minute about the prevalence (and apparent success) of Internet cons.


You're probably right, but I still just cannot understand how someone can hear the words "UN" and "mind control" in the same sentence and not flag it and the person who said it as legitimately crazy. Would it help if he started talking about the lizard people?
posted by Mitrovarr at 9:56 AM on November 15, 2012


All I feel is despair.
posted by tommasz at 9:58 AM on November 15, 2012 [3 favorites]


When I was a kid, I visited New York City for the first time and toured the UN. We ate at the UN cafeteria, which, at least on that day, was utter chaos with massive lines and nonexistent service. As I got hungrier and more impatient from the wait, I quipped, "If they can't even run a cafeteria, how are they supposed to run the world?"

Since then, and as I've seen more examples of UN "action," I've been highly skeptical of the UN's ability to do much of anything besides rack up NYC parking tickets, let alone impose mind control on anybody.
posted by zachlipton at 9:58 AM on November 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


'My opponent is a paranoid schizophrenic, I'm not even kidding, look at the stuff he says' ticket.

This will be construed as "reverse racism" or something like that, just FYI
posted by clockzero at 9:59 AM on November 15, 2012


I still just cannot understand how someone can hear the words "UN" and "mind control" in the same sentence and not flag it and the person who said it as legitimately crazy

People like Rogers run on anti-abortion, small-government, anti-immigrant platforms. That's what motivates the suburban conservative voter population in Georgia. The mind control stuff doesn't come up during elections - it's saved for his fellow legislators after the election.

I will bet you that most people who voted for Rogers in Cherokee and Cobb counties have no idea he believes anything like this, though I'm not sure it would make a difference. Social issues, which includes funding for anything that might be useful to people of color, people without money, or people living in Atlanta proper, drive a large part of election rhetoric in this area.
posted by catlet at 10:02 AM on November 15, 2012 [2 favorites]


I had been wondering where this Agenda 21 stuff had been bubbling up from to frothstain the comment pages of my local newspaper.

Wayne Alynn Root (Libertarian VP in 2008 I believe) has been getting traction with the UN Small Arms Treaty and that leads people to Agenda 21. But as I remember, wasn't the UN declared irrelevant back in 2002/2003 by Republican leadership?

The US has a history of doing what it wants. Like it or not, parts and ideas from Agenda 21 are already implemented as they make sense or are a way to line the pockets of business.

Cindy Sheehan said something silly one time

When she was at Bohemian Grove 2012 protests talking about war profiteering or when as part of the Barr/Sheehan ticket to win the Presidency?

What makes people want to believe in this stuff?

Because one can go to http://rewilding.org/rewildit/our-programs/population-growth/ and read the reasons for such plans along with the UN's on site on the topic http://www.un.org/esa/dsd/agenda21/ and see that a plan is thought out and documents exist.

BUT

None of this would be up for discussion if governments were trustworthy. You want "the crazy" to go away? Start changing the structures of Government to be worthy of the citizens trust.

That path to trust may be in these 2 polls:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/28/cnn-poll-trust-in-government-at-all-time-low/
http://www.gallup.com/poll/157700/trust-state-local-governments.aspx
posted by rough ashlar at 10:02 AM on November 15, 2012


When I was a kid, I visited New York City for the first time and toured the UN. We ate at the UN cafeteria, which, at least on that day, was utter chaos with massive lines and nonexistent service. As I got hungrier and more impatient from the wait, I quipped, "If they can't even run a cafeteria, how are they supposed to run the world?"

Yeah something tells me that Aramark or whatever isn't in charge of WHO
posted by theodolite at 10:05 AM on November 15, 2012 [10 favorites]


All the conservatives in Mississippi have to be sterilized. It's part of Obamacare!

See the aforementioned bit about teen pregnancy. (Ala. is ahead/behind Miss. on this one, for the record.)

At least this proposal didn't pass in Georgia. This guy is not uneducated, though. What's up with him? It sounds like he's been in trouble for some past sports handicapping stuff, even to the point of being asked to resign by the state Christian Coalition president? So he's upping the crazy as a conservative voter appeal?
posted by raysmj at 10:06 AM on November 15, 2012


We ate at the UN cafeteria, which, at least on that day, was utter chaos with massive lines and nonexistent service

That sucks. I got a nifty UN flag when I visited.

None of this would be up for discussion if governments were trustworthy.

Sure, if the government would just halt all that mind-control, maybe citizens would start trusting it again.
posted by octobersurprise at 10:08 AM on November 15, 2012 [3 favorites]


the government would just halt all that mind-control

It was very popular in WWII - called propaganda back then and now is called "Public Relations" when the author of the book Propaganda "rebranded" to "Public Relations".
posted by rough ashlar at 10:13 AM on November 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


Coincidence, or targeted field test of prototype mind control rays?

Have you seen all of the chemtrails in the Boston area? Coincidence? I think not.
posted by sriracha at 10:15 AM on November 15, 2012


Would it help if he started talking about the lizard people?

It wouldn't change very much.
posted by Lizard People at 10:16 AM on November 15, 2012 [8 favorites]


Have you seen all of the chemtrails in the Boston area? Coincidence? I think not.

Per usual, a relevant XKCD presents itself.
posted by Celsius1414 at 10:18 AM on November 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


Senator Chip Rogers is all about finding conservative solutions to real problems.

Herman Cain


This simply isn't true, obviously. He's absolutely insane. He's apparently a devoted family man as well. Would that his family were devoted to him enough to have him treated. This is truly astounding.

And Chip Rogers? I got robbed recently and one of the officers was named Tyler Steele. Sometimes names just match the occupation.
posted by juiceCake at 10:19 AM on November 15, 2012


As funny as you may find this, it is a serious issue in the planning profession. For a group that purports to be defenders of the public will they excel at upsetting public discourse. Denizens of the internet know very well how effective one loud voice can be at derailing even the most mundane of discussions. I can't speak to their organization or focus as it seems mainly aimed at vehemently disagreeing with whatever project is proposed.

Planners, regardless of what you think of them, take very seriously their mission of allowing for all voices to be heard, no matter how unruly or off-topic that voice may be. But it is important that one voice not dominate or distract all others, and as such this has become an increasingly challenging issue. Unfortunately, my weekly dispatches from Geneva have yet to offer solutions as to how to deal with this.
posted by gordie at 10:20 AM on November 15, 2012 [7 favorites]


This cat has obviously played one too many games of Illuminati.

fnord
posted by Gelatin at 10:23 AM on November 15, 2012 [2 favorites]


I'm seriously wondering how long it will take for these nuts to reach critical mass, and power, to maybe literally pull the trigger and do something violent

I worry about this a lot too. We moved about a year ago to a little bit less of a leftist bubble than we previously lived, and the more and more I get exposed to the Seriously Crazy™ the more worried I get that something like this would go down.

Is this a legitimate worry? I mean, are there actually people close enough to those positions to pull off coup-level (even if they're small city/state operations). How do you prepare against something like that?
posted by furnace.heart at 10:23 AM on November 15, 2012


Dick Morris...warns that Obama 'wants to force everyone into the cities from whence our ancestors fled.'

In the old country, we lived like animals in the condos. Every few months, the hipsters would get drunk on their craft IPAs and ride their bikes into our neighborhoods. In my first memories, I am hiding with my mother in the laundry room, huddled in fear as the sarcasm filled the night.

Eventually, our family saved up enough for a steerage ticket on the Harlem-Hudson line. I remember the cheers that went up as the Statue of Liberty disappeared behind us on the horizon. We landed in Scarsdale with nothing, but we could see opportunity shining on us like sodium floodlights in a mall parking lot.

My father's family stayed behind. He begged them to leave. Then Disney marched into Times Square. We never heard from them again.
posted by PlusDistance at 10:23 AM on November 15, 2012 [77 favorites]


Ham and mayonnaise! Ham and mayonnaise!
posted by dirigibleman at 10:23 AM on November 15, 2012


I moved away from where I grew up to get away from this nutbar shit.

Before this past election I sat down with my grandmother and we had a serious talk on politics, at her urging. I dreaded it because most of my family is entrenched Republicans, and I really didn't want it to turn ugly.

We talked for about 3 hours.

I explained to her about how I would never vote for Mitt Romney, Meg Whitman, or any corporate CEO for any public office. I explained to her what I saw, and how I was treated under the corporate model. I also told her about the time I worked in a warehouse after I graduated from WSU (computer science degree during the 2002-3 dot-com bust), and how I honestly felt the other workers there had NO POSSIBLE WAY to better themselves because of the oppressive environment (Think Amazon warehouse horror stories).

I also explained how funding the Saudis through our oil dependence was bad, and why it is important to invest in alt-energy (economies of scale, using the auto industry as an example). I also explained to her about how the changes in climate at our cabin in the high country (Unheard of heat wave) compared to what's going on in the Swiss alps, and how this Global Warming/Climate Change thing might be real.

She acknowledged all of my points, as she had not been exposed to that information. She might be 80, but she's all there. I gave her an honest opinion and I didn't treat her like an idiot.

When it came time for her counterpoints, it was this same UN nutbar shit, but only because that is all the information she gets from the media. My Grandmother is not a Fox News watcher, but the only newspaper in the area is the Fresno Bee. The concerns given about Democratic politicians are laughable to us, but the rapt control that these outlets have over rural populations is almost total.

I think it's a two fold problem, at least where I grew up. The people who have the wealth in the area to bring in media (land owners who allow radio repeater towers to be put up, own local media outlets) have a conservative bent, and the liberal individuals who move out there treat the locals with disdain(when your new neighbors invite you over for some venison from the deer they just bagged, don't look down your nose at them as Bambi-murdering psychopaths). This might not apply to all areas, but I'm sure elements of it might.

TL;DR: These whackjobs get elected because they are the only voice in that area.
posted by The Power Nap at 10:28 AM on November 15, 2012 [20 favorites]


> This could be the best thing that ever happened to the democratic party.

The fact that after 2012 few reasonable people could ever vote Republican again is not a good thing at all.

This is "good" only if you think of the Democratic Party as your sports team that you want to win. If you thought of the Democratic Party in terms of how well it represents the interests of America, then it's simply a loss.

The Republicans have run off to the loony right, but that's pushed the Democrats to chase them in that direction. Now we have a "Socialist" President who in fact is to the right of Richard Nixon on each and every issue.

Having real dialog between two intelligent political parties is seems to be vital to the health of the body politic.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 10:28 AM on November 15, 2012 [25 favorites]


Needs more cattle mutilation and UFO's. Your conspiracy theory is graded C-, sir. Please try harder.
posted by rmd1023 at 10:30 AM on November 15, 2012 [2 favorites]


As funny as you may find this, it is a serious issue in the planning profession.

This was actually one of the reasons my wife left public infrastructure planning for the think tank world!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 10:34 AM on November 15, 2012


The Republicans have run off to the loony right, but that's pushed the Democrats to chase them in that direction. Now we have a "Socialist" President who in fact is to the right of Richard Nixon on each and every issue.

This.

Plus all the backpatting on 2012 is getting tiresome. The Democrats won by the population of a single large city. The idea that this is some grand change or recognition is completely absurd, as absurd as the Gingrich era's self-congratulatory tone.
posted by rr at 10:35 AM on November 15, 2012 [2 favorites]


Metafilter: think of the Democratic Party as your sports team.
posted by rough ashlar at 10:42 AM on November 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


I agree that Obama is Right of Nixon on many issues, but conversely I think he is left of where B. Clinton was on many issues, and the right/left swing is largely a situational thing rather than 100% the ideals of the office holder.
posted by edgeways at 10:43 AM on November 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


Proposed new rule: if you're going to say anything at all about the United Nations, anyone in the room has a right to ask you about how the UN is structured.

I can only assume that it's structured somewhat like this.
posted by steambadger at 10:44 AM on November 15, 2012 [4 favorites]


> I think it's a two fold problem, [...] (when your new neighbors invite you over for some venison from the deer they just bagged, don't look down your nose at them as Bambi-murdering psychopaths).

This meme ("the problem is on both sides") is yet another falsehood spread by the Right.

Aside from a tiny number of extremists (and I speak as a non-meat-eater myself), no "liberal" who has moved to a so-called red state is going to be surprised or shocked that others are hunting and eating the results. The reason that liberals individuals in red states are horrified is because their neighbors express beliefs like those described in this thread.

I've spent a reasonable amount of time with the "right" in "red" states, and in my experience very many times it doesn't take more than two drinks before you get to hear some idea about jews, blacks, hispanics, homosexuals or the UN that leaves you struggling to maintain a poker face.

(Interestingly enough, I was going to write "two drinks or one bong hit" but I realized that all the people I smoked pot with in the red states were ardently anti-Republican... though I'm sure this had to do with other factors like hanging out with musicians...)
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 10:46 AM on November 15, 2012 [8 favorites]


I can only assume that it's structured somewhat like this.

Naw, more like this.
posted by Celsius1414 at 10:46 AM on November 15, 2012 [3 favorites]


rr: " The Democrats won by the population of a single large city."

* by the population of one of the three largest cities in the US. Once you get down to Philadelphia... ehhh. We might owe the Dems a Phoenix to go along with it.
posted by boo_radley at 10:48 AM on November 15, 2012


These whackjobs get elected because they are the only voice in that area.

This isn't true of Cherokee County, which is a suburban county in one of the U.S.'s largest metro areas, a metro area with some significant and internationally important federal govt. offices (the CDC, most notably, but various consulates, etc.), it's the home base of some major media production, including CNN. It's still not a Washington or NYC, but it's hardly an isolated area. I think this book, "White Flight: Atlanta and the Making of Modern Conservatism," by Kevin Kruse might give you a better explanation.
posted by raysmj at 10:52 AM on November 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


I was going to post something sarcastic and bitter but the poor and ignorant being exploited by hucksters and crazies, while all the left-that-is-not-really-the-left can think to do is look on and say snide, alienating, self-congrat shit has got me down

one of the worst parts of this is that when the faults of the other team are so blatant, it allows you to ignore your own
posted by This, of course, alludes to you at 10:58 AM on November 15, 2012 [2 favorites]


You only have to wait 5 more days for Glenn Beck's book Agenda 21 to be available.

I suspect this nonsense is not going away any time soon.
posted by wittgenstein at 11:00 AM on November 15, 2012


I can only assume that it's structured somewhat like this.

More like this.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 11:01 AM on November 15, 2012


lupus_yonderboy

Nothing I wrote was hyperbole, it was all personal experience. While it might be anectdata, and my family might be more susceptible to reasoning than most others, it doesn't mean it didn't happen.
posted by The Power Nap at 11:01 AM on November 15, 2012


This meme ("the problem is on both sides") is yet another falsehood spread by the Right.

Really?

Ok - for which "problems"?

If one believes that the military spending is a "problem" - exactly how is that one 'only one side' VS being a 'both sides problem'?
posted by rough ashlar at 11:02 AM on November 15, 2012


While it might be anectdata, and my family might be more susceptible to reasoning than most others, it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Point taken!

But I'd still say that comparing one person's disdain for venison with another person's whack-job conspiracy theory beliefs is a false equivalence...
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 11:11 AM on November 15, 2012


So I hear Washington is nice…
posted by ob1quixote at 11:14 AM on November 15, 2012


These whackjobs get elected because they are the only voice in that area.

No they're not, not in the least. These whack-o's represent a tiny fraction of the electorate and get elected because they are able to activate their followers and control primaries where votes are split between multiple candidates. In the general elections they can count on straight party support. I too got sick of it and moved away from it. And despite the trope, when I return home, as I will in a few days, to hunt, my locavore, "limosine Liberal" neighbors line up upon my return to the socialist collective to get a pound of venison!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 11:15 AM on November 15, 2012


I thought we were all being sent to secret rural FEMA concentration camps for compulsory re-education. Now we're being sent to the cities? Do we get re-educated first, or do we rotate between the sites? I need to know what to pack.
posted by Blue Meanie at 11:32 AM on November 15, 2012 [7 favorites]


robocop is bleeding: "Little did I know we were also paving the very bikepaths our socialist overlords will pedal down, their jackbooted heels making no noise as their tenspeeds change gears."

BEWARE THE GOOSEPEDDLERS!
posted by symbioid at 11:34 AM on November 15, 2012


These whack-o's represent a tiny fraction of the electorate and get elected because they are able to activate their followers and control primaries where votes are split between multiple candidates. In the general elections they can count on straight party support.

Exactly this. The issue is really with the primary system. Whenever you see wackos like this, they generally have a small group of hardcore supporters who get them through the primaries, and then they're a shoo-in during the general election. It's not really a competitive process.

To get rid of them, someone would need to primary them and mobilize enough registered party members to bump them off the ticket, which is tough to do -- it tends to be the fringe, ideologically-motivated, and demographically unrepresentative who come to primary elections (just in general, almost everywhere). That takes a lot of work.

Also, there are probably a fair number of voters who know people like this are crazy, but vote for them anyway due to their positions on various issues unrelated to the UN, lizard people, etc. The local Chamber of Commerce probably doesn't give a shit what he thinks about foreign policy -- as a member of the Georgia State senate, they probably realize it doesn't really count for much -- as long he votes the right way on tax issues and other local stuff.

In short, "issues voters" might be totally comfortable with the crazy as long as it doesn't affect their issue.
posted by Kadin2048 at 11:36 AM on November 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


the dancing dragon that bobs and swerves as it approaches

Like this!

(credit dephlogisticated)
posted by scalefree at 11:50 AM on November 15, 2012


ART BELL 2016
posted by Room 641-A at 11:59 AM on November 15, 2012


The truth is edging ever closer to The Onion.
posted by cherrybounce at 12:02 PM on November 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


GenjiandProust: "Amendment: politically crazy/clueless people get to keep their pants* on. No, really, it's better for everyone."

Yeah, because if they shit themselves, they've now shit the room instead of just shitting their pants.
posted by notsnot at 12:30 PM on November 15, 2012


There are some pretty great comments following the MJ article:

"Pigressives are born to grovel, to be rolled and ruled, to suckle thin gray milk from the withered teat of an authoritarian state. These are backfill for the poser obama to pack in the gap between here and paradise, where he is Mahdi and adored."

THIN GRAY MILK, people!
posted by sneebler at 12:41 PM on November 15, 2012


I live in a large Great Lakes city and work in its exurbs and I ROUTINELY encounter people who honestly believe that NATO and the UN are some kind of Communist/anti-american supra-organization ready to destroy Christian White America at any moment. These folks are often the same ones who express racist opinions, conceal-carry guns, and attend fundamentalist mega-churches.
posted by vkxmai at 12:42 PM on November 15, 2012


I live in rural Georgia, and I will not defend them on anything. But I will say that I was heartened to see, while driving through Brunswick last night, two consecutive pickup trucks with Obama/Biden bumper stickers.

Whole country was red Nov. 6 though. One of the Republican state senators elected was William Ligon, a dreadfully familiar name 'cause he's the son of the pastor who ran the depressing Christian private high school I attended. He ran unopposed.
posted by JHarris at 12:46 PM on November 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


I got into a gun control debate yesterday on Facebook. I really try to avoid debating about this issue because its not one that I've researched with any amount of focus. I have some vaguely formed beliefs about the topic but I'm old enough now to recognize that those beliefs don't provide me with any rhetorical ammunition.

Anyhow, the discussion started because a liberal friend of my posted a link to a GRAR OBAMA GONNA TAKE OUR GUNS article. I responded with something that I am relatively sure about - that Obama has taken virtually no action in regards to domestic guns at all. I asked where the belief that Obama might be coming to take people's guns away came from. Within seconds, somebody tagged my name with a "GOOGLE AGENDA 21."

I did, but couldn't find anything about guns. Indeed, Agenda 21 seems like a fairly innocuous thing that encourages sustainability (a thing so reasonable and intelligent that I was once again stunned to learn that anyone would oppose the idea).

I responded to the "GOOGLE AGENDA 21" post saying that I'd read it carefully but couldn't find how it was tied in with our discussion of gun control.

The response was "Isn't it obvious? Do I have to explain everything?"

So there was a bit of a back and forth between he and I, but it was difficult going because I kept showing him things I'd found when I googled Agent 21 that disproved the things he was saying and when he went to Google Agenda 21, he couldn't immediately find the information he wanted to share with me. His conclusion was that Google must be suppressing the pertinent information. That said, the conversation was very civil and (after his initial snarkiness) he was as patient with me as I was with him (especially once he realized that I really wasn't seeing the information he wanted me to see).

Shortly after this, I came to the current Motherthread and ericb had linked the very story that this FPP focuses on.

I've known for a while that we are increasingly living in little bubbles of information and that the internet has allowed us to only be exposed to information that supports what we already believe, but this exchange drove home to me that this sorry situation prevents even well meaning polite people from having discussion about things. The gent with whom I was debating may as well have been speaking an entirely different language than I was. We simply didn't share enough of a basic understanding of facts to even start to have a workable conversation.

I've often fallen back on that homily that one shouldn't mistake incompetence for malice. I've recently been revising that to one shouldn't mistake insanity for incompetence. There are people out there who believe this stuff with such a crazed fervor that people around them start to think "hey, he believes it so strongly, there must be something to it." Part of their insanity allows them to perform Beautiful Mind-like crazy logic to find patterns where none exist and that 'evidence' is enough to help convince even more people they must be right.

Its like insanity is a plague that spreads via belief and Swiss cheese logic (it still tastes like cheese, so never mind if it is riddled with holes).

I'm at a loss for how to combat this.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:53 PM on November 15, 2012 [12 favorites]


I've been hoping for a merger between the Reptilians and the Jewish bankers if you really want to give the UN cabal a run for their money.
posted by dr_dank at 12:54 PM on November 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


I live on the hippy-ish end of an island which is largely rural, and still these nutjobs are everywhere. It's directly tied to religion being a republican thing; you're voting against god if you vote democrat, and you're also primed to believe everything you're told by authority figures.

Obviously this isn't true for everyone, but does hit the "low-information" voters right where they're most comfortable.
posted by maxwelton at 1:00 PM on November 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


Joey Michaels: Its like insanity is a plague that spreads via belief and Swiss cheese logic (it still tastes like cheese, so never mind if it is riddled with holes).

I'm at a loss for how to combat this.


I'm not sure you can. In the internet era, any belief or notion regardless of how divorced from reality it is can be supported by ten seconds on google. People are going to believe what they want to believe, especially those that know the REAL TRUTH, not like mindless tripe swallowers aka sheeple.
posted by dr_dank at 1:04 PM on November 15, 2012


I live in a large Great Lakes city and work in its exurbs and I ROUTINELY encounter people who honestly believe that NATO and the UN are some kind of Communist/anti-american supra-organization ready to destroy Christian White America at any moment. These folks are often the same ones who express racist opinions, conceal-carry guns, and attend fundamentalist mega-churches.

I live and work in a "Capital of the Free World" (I won't tell you which one) and I ROUTINELY encounter people who honestly believe that White people, particularly Republicans, are some sort of Klan/Nazi organization actively working in unison (all of us) to keep African Americans downtrodden, strung-out, and generally oppressed. These folks are often the same ones who express other racist opinions, conceal-carry guns, and attend fundamentalist mega-churches.

Perhaps most strangely, these folks and vkxmai's neighbors often point to each other as evidence of the conspiracy!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 1:05 PM on November 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


a merger between the Reptilians and the Jewish bankers

Never gonna happen, reptiles are trayf.
posted by elizardbits at 1:18 PM on November 15, 2012 [5 favorites]


As a resident of Savannah, Georgia, I'd like to point out several things.

Chatham County, of which Savannah is part of, went overwhelming to Obama.

Chip Roger's website doesn't mention this meeting. Which isn't too surprising, because even if he believes it, he's smart enough to know how it'll come off voters. I'm not saying it would get him thrown out of office, let allow lose an election. But Georgia, like any state, has a strain of crazy running through it.

45% of Georgia voted for Barack Obama, so don't write off the whole state.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:20 PM on November 15, 2012 [4 favorites]


I thought about that too elizardbits, but the Reptilian foreskins will make awesome wallets. Rub them and they become suitcases!
posted by dr_dank at 1:22 PM on November 15, 2012


Time to trot the old Slacktivist essays out again. What makes these things impenetrable to rational thought is the fact that no one could possibly really believe them. Anyone claiming to believe them is bearing false witness.

False Witnesses
Confronted with the runaway success of such an absurd and over-the-top claim, the reflexive response is to think something like, “Wow, a lot of people really are gullible and stupid.” But again — and this is my point here — this has nothing to do with either stupidity or gullibility. The widespread promotion and pretend-acceptance of this rumor cannot be adequately explained by stupidity. It can only be attributed to malice.
This story, as with the many others like it, is spread maliciously. The people spreading it are not fools. They are not suffering from a mental defect, but from a moral one. They have chosen to bear false witness, and they do so knowingly.
False Witnesses 2
That's as pure a distillation as you will ever find of the nightmares and bogeymen that terrify the religious right, complete with the attempt to justify those fears because those people are really Satan-worshipping baby-killers.

Perhaps the deepest fear lurking in that e-mail has to do with the persecution complex of American evangelicals we've often discussed here before. The fear here is not that Christians in America might face persecution, but rather the fear of what it might mean that they don't. The supposed effort to prove that there are ENOUGH CHRISTIANS … TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE is an expression of the fear — or the recognition — that the people sending and resending this e-mail are not CHRISTIAN ENOUGH TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. They're shouting because they're frightened — truly frightened of the truth about themselves, which is always far more frightening than any fear of what might be lurking outside ourselves in the dark.
They Need Help
They need help. They need, frankly, liberation.

The weird rumor about Target or the even weirder rumor about P&G are somewhat trivial examples of this, but basing your life on things that aren't true, that aren't real, is a kind of bondage. In simpler, more pragmatic terms: Unreality doesn't work. It is unsustainable. It is a recipe for unhappiness.

The reason I've been writing about/obsessing over things like the P&G rumor or the usefulness of Snopes is that I'm trying to figure out how to liberate the captives of unreality.
posted by ob1quixote at 1:31 PM on November 15, 2012 [10 favorites]


But I'd still say that comparing one person's disdain for venison with another person's whack-job conspiracy theory beliefs is a false equivalence...

What it boils down to is an apparent failure on my part to communicate properly.

The Venison comment was just to illustrate the culture-gap I've witnessed between two parties. Nobody I've associated with for an extended period has spouted whack-job conspiracy theories, but people I've associated with have been exposed to whack-job conspiracy theories over an extended period of time without a sanity check. I realize that I could have given a WAY too specific example, only applicable to certain areas of Central California, which is a 'blue state' anyways.

This meme ("the problem is on both sides") is yet another falsehood spread by the Right.

I agree that the soundbite 'The Problem Is On Both Sides (tm)' has been used as a rhetorical shield just like the old chestnut 'The Devil Can Read The Bible Too (tm)'. I don't agree that is no truth in it. You have to be civil to people regardless of the mind-pasgetti that comes out if you want to sway them.

I've spent a reasonable amount of time with the "right" in "red" states, and in my experience very many times it doesn't take more than two drinks before you get to hear some idea about jews, blacks, hispanics, homosexuals or the UN that leaves you struggling to maintain a poker face.

Yep. When I was young the church I belonged to was pounding anti-gay stuff into my head, and I spouted it because that's all I ever heard on the subject. I had a grade school teacher who would challenge me every time she heard me say these things. She wasn't condescending, but she would make be defend my position. I had to dig deeper and deeper though the rhetoric to find data to defend my position. I remember hitting the bottom of the barrel quickly a few times, finding no defense for what I recognize now as hate speech I was echoing. She never called me a idiot, always told my parents that I was smarter than the grades I was getting. I can honestly say it was her who sent me on a path that ended with me being politically opposite from the rest of the family.

Talking to a 10 year old is probably orders of magnitude easier than a grown adult; and all of this is anectdata, every single word, but there are some people out there you can reach if you have the patience.

I think I'm done here, as this depresses me. It obviously hits too close to home, and reminds me of things I don't want to think about.
posted by The Power Nap at 1:47 PM on November 15, 2012 [6 favorites]




1) Am I the only one reminded by this incident of the time (recreated by David Byrne in his musical Here Lies Love) when Imelda Marcos kept a captive UN audience for 3 hours, talking to them about her ideas about geometry and the natural order of things?

2) If we are in an era of insular opinion-bubbles, why are we all still talking here and not going out and talking to these people (maybe in person)?
posted by gusandrews at 4:01 PM on November 15, 2012


But Georgia, like any state, has a strain of crazy running through it.

The strain's a lot stronger than you think, I'd say. And Chatham county is a blue blob in the middle of a sea of red.
posted by JHarris at 4:24 PM on November 15, 2012


Oh man does this mean ALEC might implode along with the entire rest of the conservative command and control architecture? Tell me how I can help that along.
posted by clarknova at 5:33 PM on November 15, 2012


And Chatham county is a blue blob in the middle of a sea of red.

This is why we keep the windows rolled up when we go outside the compound.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:04 PM on November 15, 2012 [3 favorites]


If we are in an era of insular opinion-bubbles, why are we all still talking here and not going out and talking to these people (maybe in person)?

We do, when the opportunity presents itself. But we aren't proselytizers (well, I'm not one), and walking out in the street accusing people won't change anyone's mind. We hate it, justifiably, when people come up to us to tell us the Good News About Jesus. It doesn't help to be annoying.
posted by JHarris at 6:57 PM on November 15, 2012 [1 favorite]


This is why we keep the windows rolled up when we go outside the compound.

I thought it was cause of emus.
posted by scalefree at 10:40 PM on November 15, 2012 [2 favorites]


gusandrews: "2) If we are in an era of insular opinion-bubbles, why are we all still talking here and not going out and talking to these people (maybe in person)?"

We can do both (it is amazing)!
posted by boo_radley at 9:37 AM on November 16, 2012


I'm almost certain I saw this clip from the Channel 46 CBS Atlanta news linked here on Metafilter, but it now I can't find it in this thread?

The Chairman of the Georgia Democratic Party Mike Berlon says on camera, "Usually when you've got somebody that's talking about mind control and about all these problems with the United Nations, that person is wearing a tinfoil hat. I think the thing that concerns us is the person that's wearing the tinfoil hat appears to be our Senate Majority Leader."
posted by ob1quixote at 10:48 AM on November 16, 2012 [1 favorite]


I posted about this in another thread, but I suppose this is a more appropriate thread for the commentary.

The fear of "Agenda 21" is about racism. This is what "our ancestors fled the cities" is about. It's about racism and the desire to maintain white supremacy. The way things are going, white people will be one more group at a round table, and not the "head of the table." Not normative. So we're going to have to replace an ethnicity/skin color form of identity for something ideological, based on our common humanity and collective survival. There's a lot of talk from the right about how "ideology is dead, the nation state is dead, it's all primary loyalties now." That's a fancy way, in my opinion, of saying "we don't want to live in a country with people who don't look like us as equals, and we don't think that they want to live with us either." Personally, I don't have a problem with living side by side with people who don't look like me, since I have been doing it my entire life.

Some people can't handle it though, and as a result, they are willing to block all the necessary political and economic changes that we have to make if we are going to survive global warming and peak oil. They'll try to force us to commit national suicide, (and maybe, global suicide) rather than give up their hegemony. These are the kinds of people who would secede, or stage a coup if they thought they could get away with it.

We can't let that happen. And we can't let them stop us from collective action either, the kind of collective action we're going to require if we plan on surviving global warming. Part of this requires us to understand that some white people aren't going to be able to make the intellectual/moral jump of overcoming their hardcore racism, and seeing other people as equals. I've witnessed this, we've all witnessed this. Look at how people are dealing with the failure of the economy, by doubling down on racism, _even when it hurts them materially_. Hopefully we can convince enough of them and thus avoid catastrophe. But I'm not certain that's enough, and even less certain when I see someone like Romney utterly fuck up the election and delude himself into believing that he was going to win. These people are numerous, well armed, and have penetrated the security services enough that they could stage a secession. Would it work? Probably not. Imagine "Texas-stan" and that's about the sum of it. But before it collapsed, they'd have a training ground for all kinds of militants who would be happy to go back to the border states, or inland California, and wage guerrilla war on the evil gays, atheists, communists, abortionists and brown people.
posted by wuwei at 1:35 PM on November 16, 2012 [2 favorites]


I have been thinking about this. Here's the scientific study I want to see:

Proposed that elected officials are more/less intelligent, or more/less informed than their constituants.

You gotta do four field studies.

Now, which of the results is the most depressing?

Never mind. Not knowing is better.
posted by mule98J at 10:25 AM on November 18, 2012


I was searching for "The Young Turks Agenda 21 Georgia" because a friend advised me that Cenk Uygur, et al. were having a laugh at Georgia's expense and I wanted to see the clip. Instead I found this:

The Young Turks Know Agenda 21 - Part 1 of 8.
Cenk used 1 sentence on his TV program to describe Agenda 21. That is ridiculous!
Michael Shaw is an expert on Agenda 21. http://www.freedomadvocates.org/
Perhaps Cenk would like to debate Rosa Koire of Democrats against Agenda 21.
The Young Turks Know Agenda 21
posted by ob1quixote at 3:17 PM on November 19, 2012


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