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this is the gayest of all the possible things: going to a meshell ndegeocello concert, with a goddamned lesbian, that is being held in a motherfucking FOLK MUSIC SCHOOL.
November 30, 2012 7:10 AM   Subscribe

how do you know if you're on a date with a lesbian or if you're just two pretty girls hanging out?
posted by the man of twists and turns (249 comments total) 37 users marked this as a favorite

 
I'm trying to visualize how much hate I would be subjected to if I said anything like this as a straight male...
posted by randomkeystrike at 7:14 AM on November 30, 2012 [4 favorites]


I'm a straight male and if I wrote anything like this I guess people would say, "Hey, cincinnatus, you are a very funny writer who puts about three good jokes and loads of energy into nearly every sentence. You sound cool, kind and alive, and we would like to be your friends."

I enjoyed this article very much.
posted by cincinnatus c at 7:19 AM on November 30, 2012 [27 favorites]


this is most droll
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:19 AM on November 30, 2012


No comment on the article, 'cos there was a lot of words there and I'm not really in the sober state of mind to process them all, but I laughed like a damned fool when I found out that there's a link titled "bitches gotta poop!" going to a fundraiser for Crohn's disease. Well done, and I hope you raise a (forgive me) shitload of cash!
posted by barnacles at 7:22 AM on November 30, 2012 [2 favorites]


Goddamn that woman is intense. I mean, that was awesome but I'm, like, tired now.
posted by fatbird at 7:23 AM on November 30, 2012 [22 favorites]


As a guy, I feel like I just read an unvarnished inner monologue straight from that woman's brain. Crazy and fascinating at the same time. It is what I can only imagine The Vagina Monologues must be like.

My main takeaway from this is that I had no idea that wires protruding from bras were such a hazard - one would think that this problem had been solved by now. Can someone get on this?
posted by verdeluz at 7:26 AM on November 30, 2012


Can someone get on this?

O HAI THE INTERNET HAZ MALEZ BROZ THAT CAN HELP
posted by lalochezia at 7:30 AM on November 30, 2012 [3 favorites]


cincinnatus c: "I'm a straight male and if I wrote anything like this I guess people would say, "Hey, cincinnatus, you are a very funny writer who puts about three good jokes and loads of energy into nearly every sentence. You sound cool, kind and alive, and we would like to be your friends.""

I'm a straight male and if I wrote anything like this my friends would rightly smack me upside the head for such lazy writing. Filling your sentences with "shit" (13 times) and "fuck" (27) doesn't make you badass, nor does writing in all-lowercase stream-of-consciousness style, nor does arbitrarily coloring your text. It's all downhill after the Meshell Ndegeocello joke, and there's a long way to go.

verdeluz: "It is what I can only imagine The Vagina Monologues must be like."

Nothing in common except the occurrence of the word "vagina".

Also, this post is COMPLETELY NSFW.
posted by mkultra at 7:33 AM on November 30, 2012 [18 favorites]


I am a straight male and if I wrote this I would collect high fives from the internet and keep them in a jar on my desk.
posted by shakespeherian at 7:33 AM on November 30, 2012 [11 favorites]


I've just spent the last 20 minutes working my way through her entire website. I think I love her.
we walked in and i groaned immediately because i somehow have a homing device for taints i've already licked and my eyes made a beeline for the back of this dude's head. i couldn't have avoided him if i'd wanted to, stupid visual accuracy. all the people and weed smoke in that goddamned club and still i nearly got whiplash from my neck snapping around so hard when my inner bloodhound caught a whiff of those pheromones. i elbowed caitlin and she was like, "bitch, i have a switchblade in my purse" and that is how we fucking party.
Brilliant.
posted by fight or flight at 7:34 AM on November 30, 2012 [9 favorites]


I liked it. Yeah it seems like a total stream of consciousness diatribe but let's be honest we all have those and this managed at least to be funny.

I did think it was insightful that she was still operating under such a heteronormative concept of the courting ritual and how her experience violated so many of those expectations and she didn't really know how to handle the changing expectations.

That we are all groping blindly through this changing world of ours is kinda refreshing and humbling in a scary way.
posted by vuron at 7:34 AM on November 30, 2012 [2 favorites]


It is what I can only imagine The Vagina Monologues must be like.

I... it's a play, you can go see it. Buy a ticket. They don't, like, not let you in if you lack a vagina.
posted by shakespeherian at 7:34 AM on November 30, 2012 [53 favorites]


I can sense via peripheral vision that this is probably super funny, but at 8:30 a.m. it's like being offered a row of tequila shots at 8:30 a.m. Too old; didn't read.
posted by El Sabor Asiatico at 7:35 AM on November 30, 2012 [8 favorites]


I am a straight male, and I am desperately trying to figure out how this post applies to me, because surely it must, right?
posted by gilrain at 7:35 AM on November 30, 2012 [36 favorites]


Sam Irby previously on MeFi. A different sort of article.
posted by that's how you get ants at 7:37 AM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


I am a straight male. I... I guess I just thought you guys would wanna know?
posted by cthuljew at 7:37 AM on November 30, 2012 [27 favorites]


Also, this post is COMPLETELY NSFW.

To the extent that we are concerned about signposting stuff as NSFW above the fold, it isn't. That's basically code for "seriously, naked or close-enough graphics prominent herein"; dirty words or semantic naughtiness don't come into it.
posted by cortex at 7:39 AM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


I'm a straight male and so's my wife!
posted by gilrain at 7:39 AM on November 30, 2012 [21 favorites]


A different sort of article.

Oh man, thank you for linking back to that.
posted by fight or flight at 7:40 AM on November 30, 2012


Usually I really enjoy stream-of-consciousness posts and this one just felt like she was trying too hard. Which is odd, because the last post here of her writing was spectacular. Maybe I'm just not the right target audience?

I did think it was insightful that she was still operating under such a heteronormative concept of the courting ritual and how her experience violated so many of those expectations and she didn't really know how to handle the changing expectations.

Hrm. Do women who date women normally have much higher expectations of each other than they would if they were dating a man?
posted by zarq at 7:40 AM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


how do you know if you're on a date with a lesbian or if you're just two pretty girls hanging out?


Conveniently, there's an episode of Community that answers this exact question.

SPOILERS: Awkward kissing clarifies everything.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 7:41 AM on November 30, 2012


I am a straight male, and I am desperately trying to figure out how this post applies to me, because surely it must, right?

Like headlights apply to a deer. (me too, srsly)
posted by mhoye at 7:41 AM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


Huh. Well, then...
posted by slogger at 7:42 AM on November 30, 2012


Everyone here seems to love this so I guess I should too, right? So why don't I? There's got to be an answer, though of course when I think about it I guess I don't really care either way.
posted by item at 7:42 AM on November 30, 2012 [5 favorites]


FWIW, my comment was badly-prefaced, I was just playing on verdeluz before this whole thing became a "as a straight guy" pile-on. My issue with the piece has nothing to do with her queerness, or its content, just that it's so badly written it's almost unreadable.
posted by mkultra at 7:44 AM on November 30, 2012 [3 favorites]


I love sites that straight men don't get.
posted by what's her name at 7:44 AM on November 30, 2012 [6 favorites]


Got kind of a Smoove B (If Smoove B were a lesbian) vibe to it.
I will braise you lamb shanks. and make a perfect quiche. i will roll my own dough. i will slow roast you a brisket. i own a cuisinart and you know my souffles rise. Damn. Baby, my chickens cook beautifully, my cookies are crisp around the edges and soft in the middle. I will make you a cheesecake in a luxurious water bath and then, after delicately wiping the bits of graham cracker off yhe sides of your beautiful lips with a napkin made of the finest silk, I will make you petit fours dipped in fondant! paper thin steak carpaccio! salmon ceviche with oranges! whatever you like, i got you girl. Let me cook for you.
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:48 AM on November 30, 2012 [13 favorites]


Oh god those fucking centipede things. I thought I had escaped them when I left Chicago but then one was hanging out behind the piano. I totally get this article. (I'm also not particularly male and not entirely straight, but honestly that's neither here nor there, I thought it was a funny article about relationships and adulthood and Chicago and I laughed.)
posted by capricorn at 7:50 AM on November 30, 2012 [2 favorites]


randomkeystrike: “I'm trying to visualize how much hate I would be subjected to if I said anything like this as a straight male...”

As a male who actually (GASP) knows lesbians, I can tell you: probably not much more than an eyeroll at worst, although it'd really depend on what you said. For example, it might not be a good idea to (ahem) snidely imply that lesbians hate men.
posted by koeselitz at 7:51 AM on November 30, 2012 [2 favorites]


nsk;dr

ihavenoproblemwithnotusingtheshiftkey,butnotusingspacesismoreradical.
posted by R. Mutt at 7:51 AM on November 30, 2012


Her capacity for self-reflection should make most anthropologists blush in embarrassment.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 7:52 AM on November 30, 2012 [4 favorites]


I saw two women at a bar the other day on what I was sure was a date because one women ordered for the other woman by saying "the lady will have..." It turns out they weren't (my wife, in her zeal to be excited by other people's coupling asked). I think my irony detector was just malfunctioning.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:54 AM on November 30, 2012


I love sites that straight men don't get.

Bisexual woman and I have no damn clue why this is so great.

But the ranting made me zone out every few sentences.
posted by Malice at 7:55 AM on November 30, 2012 [11 favorites]


This piece makes me think about how I decided not to pursue a career teaching creative writing to undergraduates.
posted by aught at 7:55 AM on November 30, 2012 [10 favorites]


The part about being accompanied to the bathroom when she said she had to pee but really had to unleash the squirty shits was brilliant. This whole thing is brilliant.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 7:56 AM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


OK wait now, hold on a fucking minute here, she kills house centipedes with her hands?
posted by enn at 7:57 AM on November 30, 2012 [9 favorites]


I'm trying to visualize how much hate I would be subjected to if I said anything like this as a straight male...

If I know you and we're friends and you're not being an asshole, maybe an eye-roll, maybe a high-five. Context is funny like that, ain't it? So is audience. And when one stops assuming that one's default view of the world is the only view, things get really interesting, and frequently awesome.
posted by rtha at 7:57 AM on November 30, 2012 [8 favorites]


the second most terrifying thing about possibly courting a lady: they notice everything.

Okay, this is particularly funny to me right now, because I just drove gingerbeer to the airport a little while ago, and she let me know that the nice TSA guy let her know that her sweater was on inside out. I did not notice this when we left the house. I should have more coffee, I guess, or maybe be more of a lady!
posted by rtha at 7:59 AM on November 30, 2012 [4 favorites]


Also:

verdeluz: My main takeaway from this is that I had no idea that wires protruding from bras were such a hazard - one would think that this problem had been solved by now. Can someone get on this?

Wires don't protrude from bras under optimal conditions but wear a bra for a while and you will realize there are never optimal conditions. Sometimes you accidentally put the bra in the dryer and the wire gets bent funny. Sometimes (or usually if you're me) you're sitting in a weird position and things go out of sorts. Sometimes you gain or lose 5 pounds and the fit is slightly off but you don't really feel like spending another $200 on a bra because fancy swanky bra shops are the only ones that carry your size. You're not sure if your size even exists in real life, or if they just made it up when you went to the fancy swanky bra shop, but damn if even when the underwire is poking you it isn't the best fitting bra you've ever had.
posted by capricorn at 8:01 AM on November 30, 2012 [25 favorites]


But what happened in the end?!
posted by bicyclefish at 8:01 AM on November 30, 2012


The last line made me lol, 'cause even though it's a kinda-mean stereotype IT'S SO TRUE (at least in my experience with my sister and her circle of girl/friends... and she would agree).
posted by infinitewindow at 8:01 AM on November 30, 2012


My straightness is showing, but I'd honestly never thought about the same-sex issue that they both use the same bathroom on dates. The thought of that awkwardness made me cringe.
posted by anti social order at 8:02 AM on November 30, 2012 [18 favorites]


It's OK to not like something that other people seem to like. Personally I like Samantha's intensity as a blog form, and I recognize that her wit is sort of subtle so someone can read a line that implies that she thinks all ladies notice everything, or all lesbians hate men, or whatever without realizing that she's making fun of herself while also making a bit of social commentary on the world we live in (although if you don't get it by the time you get to this part:
oh, right. do i help her take her coat off? if it rains later, should i put mine over a puddle? who opens the door? do i pull her chair out? should i walk on the outside of the sidewalk? i'm supposed to order for her, yes? is it bad that i didn't ask her father's permission after she invited me out? WHY AM I SO BAD AT LOVING PEOPLE THE RIGHT WAY?! welp.
Your irony meter needs to be calibrated).
posted by muddgirl at 8:03 AM on November 30, 2012


Like. Once upon a time I dated a lady and had a similar "Oh crap, nowhere to escape" realization when she followed me to powder my nose.

+1 for dating a lady, though: no stealthily sneaking off to the bathroom pre-sex to peel off Spanx and wad them up behind the toilet. They know what's going on under there.
posted by peacrow at 8:04 AM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


Maybe it's because I turned 30, but this piece seemed gratuitous and aggressive which just made me want to start reading an engineering textbook to clear my headspace.

I think this style of writing has been pretty much co-opted by all the "writers" i.e. bloggers and is tiresome and worn.
posted by tsaraczar at 8:06 AM on November 30, 2012 [5 favorites]


I'm a straight male and...um, at least I was before I read this thing. I'm not so sure now. I'm a sucker for intense and competant stream of consciousness stuff, but DAMN.

Also, that all caps stuff...
posted by mule98J at 8:06 AM on November 30, 2012


I recognize that her wit is sort of subtle

Erm.
posted by adamdschneider at 8:06 AM on November 30, 2012 [5 favorites]


Contrast and compare.
posted by mrgrimm at 8:08 AM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


House centipedes are our friends!
Well, my friends, at least.

... one takes what one can get.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:08 AM on November 30, 2012


Maybe it's because I turned 30
I'm 31, and I work as a copy editor, and I want to hang out with Sam Irby so bad it hurts.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 8:08 AM on November 30, 2012 [9 favorites]


Overwrought and too preciously (de)constructed for my tastes.

It could just be my overflowing backpack of straight male privilege, but I'm having a really hard time lining this up with 'best of the web.' Subtract the lesbian date hook and you've got... somebody trying really, really, really hard to be INTERNET FUNNY and succeeding only very moderately.
posted by mrdaneri at 8:09 AM on November 30, 2012 [6 favorites]


i somehow have a homing device for taints i've already licked

I would like to see a Kickstarter campaign to produce such a device for the mass market.
posted by chavenet at 8:09 AM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


intense and competant stream of consciousness stuff


More like intense case of verbal diarrhea, I'd say..
posted by c13 at 8:09 AM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


I recognize that her wit is sort of subtle

That's not the word I would have used. Layered, maybe? I liked how there's the immediate joke, and then another layered under that, and then a couple of times maybe even another layer. But not subtle, no.

I thought the funny parts were great, with perfect observations. Other parts, not so much, but that's ok.
posted by Forktine at 8:09 AM on November 30, 2012 [2 favorites]


...What did I just read?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:10 AM on November 30, 2012 [2 favorites]


Filling your sentences with "shit" (13 times) and "fuck" (27) doesn't make you badass

Badass? Where the fuck did you get badass from?

This shit is FUNNY. FUNNY is the word you were looking for. And, thankfully, many funny things also involve the words "shit" and "fuck". Sometimes even actual shitting and fucking! We call that the Aristocrats.
posted by Rory Marinich at 8:10 AM on November 30, 2012 [14 favorites]


I... it's a play, you can go see it. Buy a ticket. They don't, like, not let you in if you lack a vagina.
Yeah... I'm good, thanks :). I think I got the gist of it.
posted by verdeluz at 8:11 AM on November 30, 2012


I am a straight male and what the hell is this?

Metafilter: They don't, like, not let you in if you lack a vagina.

"also, if i am going to fuck women i have to buy way more kleenex"
This.
Other people crying on you is on of the most perplexing of all human events. Just "roll with it" is excellent advice. Keep kleenex handy, don't try to understand it, move on.

If it were feasible I'd introduce a girl crying as part of a survival stress test.
Over the hill, jump the fence, eat wild plants, make fire, build a bivouac shelter, evade the goons trying to capture you, get into safe zone and sleep two hours, move, move, swim, girl crying...wait, what? Are you ok?
'No! No! just give her the kleenex we issued you and move on!'
..but, she's crying. What did I do? Should I ask if.
'No! Don't try to understand it! Give her a tissue! That's all!'
...are you ok? Is it because we're lost?'
BUZZ!!!

Ok, people, what did PFC Irby do wrong?
'No dental dam sir?' 'Sir! Too much pizza loaf!?' 'Didn't eat the centipedes, sir?'
'No you idiots! Trying to understand why someone is crying is the deadliest trap you will ever encounter. Carry on.'
posted by Smedleyman at 8:12 AM on November 30, 2012 [40 favorites]


That's not the word I would have used. Layered, maybe? I liked how there's the immediate joke, and then another layered under that, and then a couple of times maybe even another layer. But not subtle, no.

Clearly lots of people don't realize that there are jokes below "SHE'S VULGAR YOU GUYZ!". So yes, subtle.
posted by muddgirl at 8:12 AM on November 30, 2012 [3 favorites]


House centipedes are our friends!

INDUBITABLY
posted by shakespeherian at 8:13 AM on November 30, 2012 [2 favorites]


Also, the multiple colors make me feel like I'm hanging out in a girl-friend's bedroom, smoking weed out the window so her mom won't notice, lying on top of enormous teddy bears. I understand that some people don't like that sort of experience, but I also understand that those people live in a completely different universe than the one that exists for me.
posted by Rory Marinich at 8:13 AM on November 30, 2012 [9 favorites]


I keep expecting the colors to be links to other ridiculous things and then being disappointed when they are not.
posted by elizardbits at 8:14 AM on November 30, 2012 [10 favorites]


Yeah... I'm good, thanks :). I think I got the gist of it.

Kinda sounds like not, but okay.
posted by shakespeherian at 8:14 AM on November 30, 2012 [13 favorites]


4 remembering which of the 8,719 directv channels is which. 501 is hbo. 282 is animal planet. 242 is usa. 356 is msnbc. 264 is bbc america. 331 is mtv. 202 is cnn. 237 is bravo. 525 is starz. 206 is espn. 231 is food network. 419 is cnn in espanol. 253 is lifetime movie network. 248 is fx. 559 is independent film channel. 245 is tnt. 265 is a&e. i do not know which one is the science channel. or the oprah one. history, either. i also refuse to watch any channel under 100, because i don't pay $120/month to watch free fucking tv.
This right here? Poetry. Not just for the rhythms and beats, but for the fact that her first channel of choice is HBO, her second channel's Animal Planet, and she considers Spanish CNN more important than Lifetime, FX, and IFC.
posted by Rory Marinich at 8:17 AM on November 30, 2012 [3 favorites]


> Filling your sentences with "shit" (13 times) and "fuck" (27) doesn't make you badass

This shit is FUNNY. FUNNY is the word you were looking for. And, thankfully, many funny things also involve the words "shit" and "fuck".


Okay, then amend that to "filling your sentences with 'shit' and 'fuck' doesn't make you funny".

Because it doesn't. Funny things may involve the words "shit" and "fuck", but the inclusion of the words "shit" and "fuck" doesn't automatically make something funny.

....I'm on the fence as to whether I actually do find this particular thing funny. But I will say that a WHOLE TON of cusses does detract points because it smacks of "immature writer who's trying too hard."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:18 AM on November 30, 2012 [10 favorites]


can't do any of that tedious cleaning, all that delicate dusting of knick knacks and shit? never. that's why my apartment is decorated like prison. NO FUCKING DUSTING.

This is too long for a tattoo, right? Because I would totally have that as a tattoo.
posted by xingcat at 8:20 AM on November 30, 2012 [5 favorites]


Is this going to be the giant metal chicken thread again
posted by shakespeherian at 8:20 AM on November 30, 2012 [10 favorites]


Metafilter: Taints we've already licked
posted by Billiken at 8:23 AM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


....I'm on the fence as to whether I actually do find this particular thing funny. But I will say that a WHOLE TON of cusses does detract points because it smacks of "immature writer who's trying too hard."

Pshh, that's because you're old. Post-Pulp Fiction cuss words became a legitimate form of poetry. In one paragraph alone here, we get:

– i'll pull my spanx back up to my nipples
– SHITSPLASH
– i had the kind of diarrhea that makes you stop believing in god
– IT'S NOT JUST A REALLY LONG PEE THAT IS SO SEXY
– can an evening really get more mortifying than fiery liquid stools in public?

In fact, that last line is a good wonderful metaphor for this piece. One generation, it seems, thinks that "fiery liquid stool" is a bad thing, crude, gross, painful, unnecessarily foul. Another generation was live-tweeting that shit, because gross and painful things are often more lyric and personal than loveliness and taste.
posted by Rory Marinich at 8:24 AM on November 30, 2012 [5 favorites]


Is this going to be the giant metal chicken thread again

yes it is now shut up Victor
posted by Rory Marinich at 8:24 AM on November 30, 2012 [10 favorites]


“I'm trying to visualize how much hate I would be subjected to if I said anything like this as a straight male...”

You know, it's true that if a straight male friend said something like "how do lesbians know they're on a date or if they're just two hot chicks hanging out", which is probably how the only type of person who would say such a thing would phrase it, I would loose most of my respect for that person, because: 1. men who get all obsessed with Imaginary Lesbians are gross; 2. Men who only pay attention to queer women when we are "hot" enough to star in their imaginary fantasy life are double gross; 3. Not all queer women who go on dates are "hot", some of us are just regular-looking, and not knowing that is dumb; 4. being a straight guy who others queer women to the point of "and just what do lesbians do on dates anyway" are stupid and clueless and will probably proceed to ask you what queer women do in bed; 5. many queer women who are popularly considered "hot" by other queers are not hot to dude-bros, and not knowing this is also stupid and clueless. If a straight male friend tried to frame this as "oooh, it is such testimony to unfairness and double-standards that straight guys can't say dumb shit about queer women in queer-friendly environments, oh the humanity" I would also loose a ton of respect for him.

I add that this woman is not talking about random women; she's talking about herself and her possible date. I think it's charming that she can both talk about all this body stuff and also declare that she is hot - that's something that women are really not supposed to do. I also suspect that it's something that women of color are kind of doubly culturally not-supposed-to-do.

And I add that in wild modern-day America, "is this a date or are we just hanging out" isn't a question unique to lesbians.

I myself often reflect that in some ways it's easier to date dudes because they are easier to fool - many men expect women to charm them as a condition of womanhood, so they don't really pay attention to what you're saying, your real personality, etc. And I say this, frankly, as a person who has always been way more physically attractive to queer women than to dudes.
posted by Frowner at 8:27 AM on November 30, 2012 [28 favorites]


So yes, subtle

Let me know if someone posts something less subtle. I'd like to see it. From a distance and in a Hazmat suit, but still.
posted by yerfatma at 8:28 AM on November 30, 2012 [5 favorites]


I thought it was funny, and I'm so old, I'm like a generation unto myself.
posted by taz at 8:28 AM on November 30, 2012 [7 favorites]


I think, for me at least the humor in sentences like "i had the kind of diarrhea that makes you stop believing in god" is that in most circumstances, when that is happening and people ask if you are alright, you say something like "Oh, my stomach is upset." At least to me, the profanity doesn't read like someone trying to be edgy, but as someone saying what we all are thinking when we instead use a euphemism. It doesn't read to me (and, I suspect, the people who find it funny) as trying to be cool, as much as being self-deprecatingly honest about her inner monologue.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 8:29 AM on November 30, 2012 [17 favorites]


Is this going to be the giant metal chicken thread again

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO- *gasp* -OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
posted by zarq at 8:30 AM on November 30, 2012 [8 favorites]


I would prefer it if Matt Taibbi didn't swear so much, too.

Here it's done for tension/release, tension/release, tension/release, the off-color bits (whether swearing or bug torture or scatology or sex) upping the tension, even among us Internet sophisticates who have seen almost everything, then it's release, the punch line letting us off the hook, the laugh that much hardier because of the relief we also feel. Then up we go again.

Not sure why Taibbi does it, though. Maybe for the same reason.
posted by notyou at 8:31 AM on November 30, 2012


Also let me just put this here in big ol' text:

Go see The Vagina Monologues. It is great. Seeing it made me a better person.
posted by shakespeherian at 8:32 AM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


1. men who get all obsessed with Imaginary Lesbians are gross;

Men who get obsessed with Real Lesbians are grosser.
posted by Forktine at 8:32 AM on November 30, 2012


what an excellent thread
posted by nathancaswell at 8:40 AM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


Men who get obsessed with Real Lesbians are grosser.

But IME rarer! And much more likely to keep quiet about it. (Unless you mean "men who stalk women they know who are lesbians" which, yes, is worse - but I feel like it falls under the heading of "men who stalk women they know", and men who do that tend to be creeps to all the women they know.)
posted by Frowner at 8:44 AM on November 30, 2012


I thought this was brilliant and fucking hilarious.
posted by shoesietart at 8:45 AM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


Is this going to be the giant metal chicken thread again

Not til someone compares this to domestic violence &/or gaslighting.
posted by elizardbits at 8:45 AM on November 30, 2012


So within the hour, I assume.
posted by elizardbits at 8:45 AM on November 30, 2012 [12 favorites]


Gaslighting is a myth, this isn't the South Park Movie eliz
posted by Rory Marinich at 8:48 AM on November 30, 2012


Metafilter: the giant metal chicken thread again

Also, can someone post a link to that thread? I somehow missed it.
posted by slogger at 8:51 AM on November 30, 2012


15 YEARS IS BIG METAL CHICKENS
posted by elizardbits at 8:53 AM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


Wait - that blog post by the lady that bought a giant metal chicken?

...

That got contentious and bad? wtf

ANYWAY.

Once again, I find the declarations of bad/overwraught/undergrad writing to be pretty funny. Y'all haven't read bad writing. You haven't tried to love the "Once Upon a Time" show, or cringed at the dialogue in Snow White and the Huntsman doing its best to torpedo the art direction, or descriptions of games up for a vote on Steam greenlight:
Vitris-47 has been the central stage of many conflicts over the ages. The Idalin empire rules over the planet with an ironhand and war is always present. On the other side, theres the resistance, trying to retake the planet to its former glory and you are part of it.
Ok? That is bad writing. A few thousand words that have flow and personality and a distinct voice you can hear in your head? Not bad writing. I mean, check this out:
i love super fancy art shit. there is nothing better than pushing my tits up and slapping on some lipstick to stand around pretending i understand symbolism and chiaroscuro or whatever while checking out urban art patrons. ie, hip hop dudes in plaid shirts and grandpa cardigans with bowties and their "going out" gym shoes.
If you didn't laugh at the last sentence you're just not calibrated correctly. Sorry. Someone needs to check you out with calipers.

On preview: I would like to make it clear that I remembered that thread before elizardbits linked it. BE IMPRESSED.
posted by kavasa at 8:55 AM on November 30, 2012 [8 favorites]


But I will say that a WHOLE TON of cusses does detract points because it smacks of "immature writer who's trying too hard."

Yes, thank you for articulating what was bothering me about this.

I actually liked this essay a lot better once I read it a second time. As someone said above, there are more layers to it than I initially realized.
posted by zarq at 8:55 AM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


I liked it, thanks for posting.

Re the first comment here: Everything is not about you. This is an example.
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 9:01 AM on November 30, 2012


This reads a lot like my own inner dialogue. Take that as you will.
posted by davejay at 9:01 AM on November 30, 2012 [2 favorites]


Well, I learned that there is a form of fondant that you dip stuff in, as opposed to drape over stuff. However, from the wiki description I'm not picturing it hardening, so petit-fours dipped in fondant sound significantly messier that petit-fours draped in fondant.
posted by achrise at 9:03 AM on November 30, 2012


what is the gayest fucking thing you could ever imagine? two rainbow-striped unicorns banging their glittery dicks together while shooting stars from their assholes? a ymca/it's raining men mash-up playing on a continuous loop in the skinny jeans section of forever 21? eating a salad for dinner?! WRONG. this is the gayest of all the possible things: going to a meshell ndegeocello concert, with a goddamned lesbian, that is being held in a motherfucking FOLK MUSIC SCHOOL. game set match, friends

I went to Lilith Fair with a male friend (just the two of us). Your serve.

I'm not sure I totally understood this piece, but I'm a sucker for any jokes/stories about inappropriately-timed diarrhea (Doodie Calls is a favorite podcast of mine), so I liked it.
posted by The Gooch at 9:07 AM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


Public Service Notice:

Seriously, for all of you who thought that article was too breathless and sweary and had too many different colors of text: If you are under 65, you might want to consider Retiring From The Internet.

I guarantee you the next generation of content will have to be so lurid in its attention-getting that it will make one of those tumblrs that is all strobing seizure gifs look like Remains of the Day.
posted by dubold at 9:07 AM on November 30, 2012 [21 favorites]


SWEARING A LOT IS EDGY
posted by ninjew at 9:10 AM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


penas and but
posted by elizardbits at 9:14 AM on November 30, 2012 [19 favorites]


Oh right, I was going to respond to the cusses thing:

Personally, I think any time you're reaching for the [broad stylistic choice] is bad for [reasons] brush you should probably rethink that.

For me, I'm asking if it's a chore to read. If so, do I get a gold star on the calendar for doing the chore?

I mean, look at the essay regarding her mother, above. Clearly she's comfortable with other styles of writing. Just as clearly, she's chosen this style for her humor blog, and she's following that style as rigidly as the NYT follows its own*. You say it feels as if she's trying too hard, but take a look at her in-progress book writing. Yes, it's hard work and she's working hard at it.

Four letter words have no special meaning distinct from other words. She's writing in a specific voice. You may not like that voice, but that doesn't mean it's a bad one, and it is absolutely not the case that it is, ipso facto, bad writing.
posted by kavasa at 9:15 AM on November 30, 2012 [10 favorites]


Public Service Notice:

Seriously, for all of you who thought that article was too breathless and sweary and had too many different colors of text: If you are under 65, you might want to consider Retiring From The Internet.

I guarantee you the next generation of content will have to be so lurid in its attention-getting that it will make one of those tumblrs that is all strobing seizure gifs look like Remains of the Day.


I don't think the argument is "This is INAPPROPRIATE. Stop swearing!"

The argument is about how the massive amounts of swearing of gross imagery is a hokey gag that is attempting to pass as writing.
posted by tsaraczar at 9:16 AM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


I find it hilarious how many people seem to be unaware that this is genuinely how a lot of women talk to other women about random and mundane stuff. Perhaps I should post in its entirety the 1,000 line chatlog of me and my friend Michele discussing the various nuances of lactose intolerance flatulence.
posted by elizardbits at 9:18 AM on November 30, 2012 [22 favorites]


+1 for dating a lady, though: no stealthily sneaking off to the bathroom pre-sex to peel off Spanx and wad them up behind the toilet. They know what's going on under there.

I won't date anyone, man or woman, who doesn't find the flesh-toned belly sausage look very attractive. It's important to have standards.
posted by the young rope-rider at 9:18 AM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


The argument is about how the massive amounts of swearing of gross imagery is a hokey gag that is attempting to pass as writing.

If you're going to say you don't like the style, that's fine. But not-liking writing doesn't make it not actually writing. It's the written word. Therefore it's writing.
posted by dubold at 9:20 AM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


SWEARING A LOT IS EDGY

Swearing a lot is how I talk in everyday life.
posted by gaspode at 9:20 AM on November 30, 2012 [20 favorites]


The argument is about how the massive amounts of swearing of gross imagery is a hokey gag that is attempting to pass as writing.

I think it's actually writing that you don't like, not something trying to pass for writing. It's writing. Some folks apparently find it successful and genuinely funny; it's okay to disagree with them but doesn't make a lot of sense to suggest that the problem is that all the people who have a better opinion of it than you do are just failing at correctly identifying writing.

Different people like different things. That's okay. I dislike some writing that lots of people consider to be good. Nobody's going to agree on everything, and some things are more divisive than others.

Personally I don't like a bunch of cussing when it's literally just space-filling bluster; artless, pointless fuckin' and bitch and suck my dick and so on as reflexive punctuation in an otherwise substanceless pile of whatever, yeah, that's lazy shit. This isn't that, though, and the difference is as important to the "why all the cussin'?" argument as the presence of dirty words themselves. It's an aesthetic, it works in the context it's intended to, and it's funny if you like it and maybe offputting if you don't but so goes it.
posted by cortex at 9:21 AM on November 30, 2012 [13 favorites]


"[style] is a hokey gag that is attempting to pass as [artform]"

This simple criticism works for just about everything. Very economical!
posted by gilrain at 9:21 AM on November 30, 2012 [3 favorites]


attempting to pass as writing

Jesus. You realise when you say this you sound like you know fuck all about writing?
posted by cincinnatus c at 9:22 AM on November 30, 2012 [4 favorites]


google is not helping with "macaroni hostess cupcake pizza loaf recipe", although the post link currently shows up at number 7.
posted by achrise at 9:22 AM on November 30, 2012


Yeah, it's like the tired old rap music argument all over again.
posted by elizardbits at 9:22 AM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


SWEARS ARE HOW I FEEL INSIDE.
posted by alynnk at 9:23 AM on November 30, 2012 [19 favorites]


I'm not even sure how something could try and fail to pass as writing provided it contained written words. I guess if the blog were a collection of random words, but I see words, and sentences and thoughts and all that, so I'm going to declare it writing.

It's official!
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:24 AM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


Here it's done for tension/release, tension/release, tension/release

Sure, using swears to be transgressive. Though I prefer to taste the soup rather than just the salt.
posted by bonehead at 9:26 AM on November 30, 2012 [2 favorites]


People sure are sensitive about being criticized for liking or not liking something.

Myself, this form of writing is not of a type I enjoy or find entertaining. It sort of made me think that this is what a bisexual female version of a Jason Mewes character from a Kevin Smith film may or may not be like.

That others enjoy this, fine, whatever, kudos for them to have something to delightfully devour on a Friday morning. For those who don't enjoy it, good for them, we have been allowed to throw something onto our Column of Dislikes versus Column of Likes. Everyone wins?

Also. PUNCTUATION PLEASE.
posted by Atreides at 9:26 AM on November 30, 2012 [2 favorites]


Also. PUNCTUATION PLEASE.
It's punctuated according to largely standard rules of modern American English. It lacks initial capitals, but that's not generally considered to be "punctuation."
posted by kavasa at 9:30 AM on November 30, 2012


It is so weird that we are on Metafilter and people are complaining that lots of swears are annoying. Which parts of Metafilter do you read?
posted by shakespeherian at 9:34 AM on November 30, 2012 [3 favorites]


Perhaps I should post in its entirety the 1,000 line chatlog of me and my friend Michele discussing the various nuances of lactose intolerance flatulence.

FUCK YES PLEASE!!!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:34 AM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


I wanted more about the centipede. Maybe the next date?
posted by colie at 9:35 AM on November 30, 2012


People sure are sensitive about being criticized for liking or not liking something.

Compare and contrast.

"I really didn't like that at all. Here's why."

"That was bad and you are stupid if you like it."
posted by mrgrimm at 9:37 AM on November 30, 2012


Some of you got real angry real quick there.

Ok. How about an edit: "tries to pass as good writing". Does that make me less of a idiot?

I get that there are preferences to styles of writing. Great. There is also quality, and I am not so sure of the quality of this particular writing. I have nothing against fucks, tits, cum, motherfuckers, or the imagery of geysers of shit. I do have something against using it as a gimmick.
posted by tsaraczar at 9:38 AM on November 30, 2012 [2 favorites]


I always forget whether caterpillars or centipedes are the deadly poisonous ones ... it's caterpillars! Carryon with the squishing.
posted by mrgrimm at 9:38 AM on November 30, 2012


Ok. How about an edit: "tries to pass as good writing".

People snarking about how words are by definition writing aside, the implication of a qualitative judgement was pretty clear and that's what I was actually responding to. You are asserting your qualitative judgement as fact in the face of other people clearly disagreeing with that judgement, so you need to decide whether it's possible that preference is in fact a core factor here or whether everyone else is just factually wrong about it. That's the sticky bit.
posted by cortex at 9:41 AM on November 30, 2012 [4 favorites]


I do have something against using it as a gimmick.

Real life is full of fucks and tits and cum and motherfuckers and geysers of shit. Humans are gross and human bodies do gross and hilarious things. Sorry that's gimmicky I guess.
posted by elizardbits at 9:43 AM on November 30, 2012 [8 favorites]


There is also quality, and I am not so sure of the quality of this particular writing. I have nothing against fucks, tits, cum, motherfuckers, or the imagery of geysers of shit. I do have something against using it as a gimmick.

I can totally see where you're coming from, and if it wasn't for the fact that I had friends who thought and wrote like this I might be more inclined to look upon this suspiciously. Before I had these friends, I tended to read swears as self-consciously edgy too.

But I see this piece not as shock humor, but as kind of an intimate, slightly sleep-deprived, conversation about something that's simultaneously important and ludicrous. This is the tone you take when you're talking about something you legitimately give a shit about but simultaneously think is a silly thing to worry about. It's kind of the opposite of the tone I'm taking right now, which is taking far too seriously something that's not super worth being serious about. Undercutting your own thoughts is how you keep focused on a subject without descending into self-parody, so for silly subjects you get serious and for serious subjects you get silly.
posted by Rory Marinich at 9:45 AM on November 30, 2012 [5 favorites]


I thought this was amazing and super hilarious and I laughed so hard at "Do I own a first aid kit?" that I had to stop reading to wheeze.

This is like a comedy shibboleth. Like that thread about the fake Jay Guevara t-shirts. Both of those projects make me

a) Laugh really hard
b) Feel like the originator is My Kind Of Person
c) Mystified that other people don't like it

Anyway, I would totally go to a concert at a folk music school with this lady.
posted by thehmsbeagle at 9:46 AM on November 30, 2012 [8 favorites]


MetaFilter: full of fucks and tits and cum and motherfuckers and geysers of shit
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:46 AM on November 30, 2012 [3 favorites]


People snarking about how words are by definition writing aside, the implication of a qualitative judgement was pretty clear and that's what I was actually responding to. You are asserting your qualitative judgement as fact in the face of other people clearly disagreeing with that judgement, so you need to decide whether it's possible that preference is in fact a core factor here or whether everyone else is just factually wrong about it. That's the sticky bit.

Well, you're spot on with that. I could always be wrong. And it wouldn't be the first or the last time.
posted by tsaraczar at 9:48 AM on November 30, 2012


blah blah blah meat beard blah blah blah

I'm in love.
posted by changoperezoso at 9:50 AM on November 30, 2012


Eh, "wrong" is the wrong way of looking at it. Context is everything, and it's not necessarily your job to understand this post in enough context to like it – just as it's not hers to write things only in contexts you immediately appreciate.
posted by Rory Marinich at 9:52 AM on November 30, 2012 [2 favorites]


Ok. How about an edit: "tries to pass as good writing". Does that make me less of a idiot?
Well, first: no one has called anyone an idiot.

Second: "tries to pass as good writing" certainly doesn't make you seem like less of a supercilious and self-appointed final arbiter of good taste.

I mean look dude. I'm pretty well-read in comparison with most members of the general population. I could try to list a range of Things I've Read but that's a pretty impossible task, so I'll just ask you to trust me when I say that I've read a lot of things. What I'm seeing here is a distinct and deliberate voice (hint: in an earlier post she notes that she does not speak in person in the same way that she writes for the blog) that is deceptively easy to read. How much time have you spent trying to write anything? It seems like you're completely unaware of how difficult it is to write something that reads so effortlessly.

To state it differently: if this woman isn't writing drafts and doing at least one revision pass on these things, I will be even more hopelessly depressed at my entire and complete lack of writing talent than I already was.
Well, you're spot on with that. I could always be wrong. And it wouldn't be the first or the last time.
Allow to me suggest an alternative approach. Or wait, two alternatives:

1) "Huh, I didn't like that very much, but y'all seem to like it a lot. What am I missing?" Bonus: this is a great way to be introduced to some great stuff!
2) Think to yourself "huh, I didn't like that very much." Move on to the next thread/next thing/whatever.

What several people did here, instead of take either of those approaches, is say: "I didn't like that very much. It must be bad. I have decided that the reasons it is bad are [swearing/lack of capitals]."

Frankly, that approach seems to me to be far more puerile than usin' a lot of swears.
posted by kavasa at 9:55 AM on November 30, 2012 [12 favorites]


This blog entry had breadsticks which were warm, and comforting on a cold day such as this.
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 9:56 AM on November 30, 2012 [5 favorites]


in wild modern-day America, "is this a date or are we just hanging out" isn't a question unique to lesbians.

And another reason I'm so happy to be committed in my relationship. The load is just not there (so to speak). I can talk about whatever I want to whomever I want.
I did what might have been considered chatting up this girl at my gym. At least in the beginning of the conversation. I don't wear the ring when I lift (and I was wearing gloves)
She said "You look great. Much happier than I've seen you recently."
And I said "Well, yeah, I just took a big shit."

Over the short stunned pause (this is how married I am) I described the offal in question in no uncertain terms. I believe I used the term "krinkly" you know, how your brain looks. Weird that.

Anyway I went on to debate (with myself mostly) the fine points of mental health correlated with bowel movements as any potential sexual interest she may have had (not knowing I was married) quickly evaporated.

And naturally, I told my wife all about the nice woman who I talked to at the gym about this epic turd I bombardiered all the way from my large intestine that was so large I had to engage the gym staff to help me kill it with the "EZ curl" bar.

The point being, if you're unwilling to share information or apprehensive about potential information getting out regarding your personal excretions, you probably WANT to be on a date, whether you are or not.

If you don't care, odds are you're not on a date whether the other person wants to be or not.
posted by Smedleyman at 9:57 AM on November 30, 2012 [26 favorites]


welp

i for one am really pleased that smedleyman is back
posted by elizardbits at 9:59 AM on November 30, 2012 [16 favorites]


No shit, elizardbits! /rimshot

Good to see you again, Smed.
posted by rtha at 10:01 AM on November 30, 2012


The fact that I'm enjoying the pile-on makes me wonder if I'm really a straight male.

I will defend myself on one point only - I do in fact have many friends who swing all kinds of ways, so my comment was not based on total ignorance. See? Bias based on the fact that I'm - I won't say it ...
posted by randomkeystrike at 10:03 AM on November 30, 2012


men who get all obsessed with Imaginary Lesbians are gross

What the heck, it's not GROSS, it's WONDERFUL to think about Sara and Morgan's life together. Today Morgan was trying to figure out why they got charged double on their electric bill; they could swear they paid it last month. Yes, remember? Sara was paying it online while Morgan was making some chicken. Well, Sara guesses she'll have to call the electric company and see if it's a mistake on their part. MEANWHILE Morgan is wondering if they should tivo The Office tonight. Sara says she'd watch it if Morgan records it, but that strictly speaking it's not "tivo"ing since they switched to a differently-branded service. Morgan kind of rolls her eyes at this and does not dispute. Sara asks if Morgan knows where their drill is, 'cause Sara wanted to hang up a picture she got from her co-worker, Beth. Beth took this photo and framed it and everything. Morgan is not sure where the drill is. Maybe... in that cabinet beneath the food processor in the kitchen? Jeez, when was the last time they even used it? Sara isn't sure. She thinks maybe it was when they had problems with their basement leaking -- oh, it's probably in the basement. Sara will look for it after they watch The Office. Wait, asks Morgan, why are we tivoing The Office if we're gonna watch it tonight? Sara refrains from once again pointing out that "tivo"ing is an inappropriate verb here
posted by Greg Nog at 10:08 AM on November 30, 2012 [35 favorites]


Haha oh my god. Her post on being in the PNW is great.
posted by kavasa at 10:08 AM on November 30, 2012 [5 favorites]


I want to put this in Instapaper, but I feel like losing the colors would be a serious loss.
posted by Apropos of Something at 10:13 AM on November 30, 2012


I'd honestly never thought about the same-sex issue that they both use the same bathroom on dates

Yeah, it is super inconvenient for times when poops need to happen, but it is pretty awesome when you are in the mood for getting up to some drunken sexytimes.
posted by elizardbits at 10:28 AM on November 30, 2012 [9 favorites]


DO NOT CONFUSE THE TWO
posted by shakespeherian at 10:30 AM on November 30, 2012 [11 favorites]


yes that way lies madness

and niche german fetish pornography
posted by elizardbits at 10:31 AM on November 30, 2012 [5 favorites]


yes that way lies madness

and niche german fetish pornography


one schtupp beyond!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:42 AM on November 30, 2012 [4 favorites]


What's with all the heated debate? I don't think that the people who didn't like the article criticized those who do. I do see a lot of the opposite, however. Personally, I thought it was OK. Nothing special. But it seems inappropriately rude and unkind to tell people that they're old or puerile because they didn't appreciate it, or say that people don't know "fuck all" about writing because they disliked the style.
posted by Edgewise at 10:43 AM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


Very interesting. Thanks for the post. I find this sort of person to be moderately terrifying. It's good to be terrified now and again.
posted by Kwine at 10:49 AM on November 30, 2012


it is pretty awesome when you are in the mood for getting up to some drunken sexytimes

But less awesome when other people are in the mood for drunken sexytimes, and you just have to $BODILY_FUNCTION.

I hope bathrooms are on the agenda at the next Queer World Congress. Guys: if you are at one of the rare bars that appeals to both the ladygays and the mangays, you can no longer use the women's bathroom as your sneaky makeout and/or coke chamber. Maybe you could take it somewhere where people aren't going to interrupt you, because you are causing a line of uncomfty folks that goes out the door.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 10:50 AM on November 30, 2012 [2 favorites]


I hope bathrooms are on the agenda at the next Queer World Congress. Guys: if you are at one of the rare bars that appeals to both the ladygays and the mangays, you can no longer use the women's bathroom as your sneaky makeout and/or coke chamber. Maybe you could take it somewhere where people aren't going to interrupt you because you are causing a line of uncomfty people that goes out the door.

I'm straight and male, so any experience I have with this is entirely in the context of straight bars and women, but if there's women in the bar, it seems kind of inconsiderate to use the women's room. Isn't sex (and vomitting) why men's rooms at bars have stalls in the first place? I mean, no one's pooping in bar bathrooms, right? There's enough urinals to satisfy the people who need to pee and a stall for fooling around. Women's bathrooms have few places to pee so you're much more likely to cause a line.

I mean, theoretically, if fooling around in bar bathroom was something you enjoyed.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 10:59 AM on November 30, 2012


it seems inappropriately rude and unkind to tell people that they're old or puerile because they didn't appreciate it, or say that people don't know "fuck all" about writing because they disliked the style.
=|

I didn't say that.

I said that declaring your taste to be a matter of objective truth, on the basis of flimsy reasons, is puerile. And it is! The mature things to do are the two options I posted above, reposted below for your pleasure:
1) "Huh, I didn't like that very much, but y'all seem to like it a lot. What am I missing?" Bonus: this is a great way to be introduced to some great stuff!
2) Think to yourself "huh, I didn't like that very much." Move on to the next thread/next thing/whatever.
I am clearly, obviously not saying "not liking this is bad." I am explicitly saying that stating your taste as an objective reality is immature. I'm also implicitly saying that the taste-based negative reactions are kind of reflexive and lazy ("lots of cusses are a gimmick" - what does that even mean? What distinguishes gimmick writing from other writing? Why is gimmick writing, whatever it is, bad?). And honestly, reflexive or lazy reactions are fine! I have them all the time and decide I'm just not interested in whatever work I'd need to do to engage with [whatever] right now. But I also don't feel the need to gussy that attitude up and try to justify it by passing judgement on stuff*. Right?

*My boyfriend, who sometimes calls me "Judgey McJudgerson," would find that sentence hilarious.
posted by kavasa at 11:02 AM on November 30, 2012 [3 favorites]


SWEARING A LOT IS EDGY
Swearing a lot is how I talk in everyday life.


Which is fine. Me too. But there's swearing a lot and then there's using naughty language effectively. The two are not the same. One of the best 40 minutes of my life was a freshman high school English class. It was early in the year and the school was all male, so it took about 3 days to discover we could swear freely. After a couple of weeks the teacher (who was all of 22 himself) stopped class to spend some time explaining that there was a way to swear well. It actually served as a decent introduction into rhetoric and poetry, to look for measure/ beats/ rhymes/ whatever blows your hair back and make sure you weren't going (I dunno):

FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK
SHIT


there's no harm in being conscious of how things sound, regardless of the words you use. Clearly 99% of my posting history is a repudiation of Mr. Mueller's efforts, but they were sensible efforts nonetheless.

If you are under 65, you might want to consider Retiring From The Internet

Oh please. If you're under 30 you might want to consider there's the rest of your life and you might learn some things along the way (assuming one pays attention like Bill Cosby told us at the beginning of Fat Albert). Were I still 22, maybe this would all speak to me, but at 36 (and almost 37), it seems like 50 grafs of fat that could be reduced/ solved by just taking a risk and actually asking the person, "Hey, do you like me? Do you like me in that way?" instead of the shit kids seem to do now where they are David Fucking Attenborough in their own lives, this higher form of being trying to tease out the intentions and meanings in everyone and everything without ever stopping to ask a goddamn straight question.
posted by yerfatma at 11:02 AM on November 30, 2012 [6 favorites]


I mean, no one's pooping in bar bathrooms, right?

DON'T SPOIL THE MOVIE MAGIC, DAMMIT. (NSFL)
posted by zarq at 11:05 AM on November 30, 2012


The same person who says, "What several people did here, instead of take either of those approaches, is say: "I didn't like that very much. It must be bad," also says, "If you didn't laugh at the last sentence you're just not calibrated correctly."

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmkay.
posted by ambient2 at 11:14 AM on November 30, 2012


I'm straight and male, so any experience I have with this is entirely in the context of straight bars and women

Let's say you're a guy who's accustomed to frequenting bars where there pretty much aren't any women, ever, but which are required by law to have a separate, unused women's room. It's actually kind of polite for guys to use the (otherwise cobwebbed and abandoned) women's room for making out and/or whatever else, since they're freeing up the men's room for you to $BODILY_FUNCTION. Oh how nice.

But then there are bars that host all men six days a week, but have a ladygay night on the seventh day. Confusing! Or the mythical bar that caters equally to ladygays and mangays, which a lot of folks just aren't accustomed to, and where the issues that arise should probably be solved through Shaks-and-Jets-style dance-offs.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 11:24 AM on November 30, 2012 [2 favorites]


Or the mythical bar that caters equally to ladygays and mangays

I WANT TO BELIEVE
posted by shakespeherian at 11:30 AM on November 30, 2012 [4 favorites]


Were I still 22, maybe this would all speak to me, but at 36 (and almost 37), it seems like 50 grafs of fat that could be reduced/ solved by just taking a risk and actually asking the person, "Hey, do you like me? Do you like me in that way?" instead of the shit kids seem to do now where they are David Fucking Attenborough in their own lives, this higher form of being trying to tease out the intentions and meanings in everyone and everything without ever stopping to ask a goddamn straight question.

Ummmm... yes. It's called having fun and taking your time. It's why people like unnecessarily long books, movies, and operas, why people play sports and games even when you could easily end any game simply by refusing to play in it. You enjoy the moment, and as you enjoy it you realize that every moment is longer and longer and longer than you first realized, and you enjoy it more and more and more.

And there's no such thing as a straight question, just as there's no such thing as a straight romance. "Do you like me?" is such a pointless fucking question to ask. I have almost never asked it and had the person on the other end understand it exactly the way that I meant. On the other hand, I've almost never had a two-hour-long whimsical conversation with a person wherein we didn't both come out the other end knowing a lot more about each other than we did when it started.

The person who wrote this blog is clearly a better swearer than you and clearly you're upset about it, but justifying your realization that more talented cussers than you exist by claiming that they're doing it wrong is just silly and sad.
posted by Rory Marinich at 11:31 AM on November 30, 2012


Shaks-and-Jets

snrk!
posted by axiom at 11:35 AM on November 30, 2012


Hey, I heard this is the thread where all the straight me......

/looks around
/slowly backs out of thread

/peeps head back in


/goes off to read an engineering book

posted by benito.strauss at 11:37 AM on November 30, 2012 [3 favorites]


Maybe we should all go take a walk and people who want to talk about the article or stuff the article talks about can go ahead and do that.
posted by cortex at 11:39 AM on November 30, 2012 [5 favorites]


*reads link partially once*
*comes back to MeFi thread semi baffled*
*re-reads link*
*wonders why all the beanplating about subjective reaction*

I didn't laugh out loud, but I found it mildly amusing, from a lesbianic point of view. Mostly, my reaction was along the lines of yerfatmama's comment. Which is to say, dating sucks, assumptions suck, and in certain situations it would be wonderful if we could just say what we think. Regardless of what kind of plumbing we possess.

Good god you guys put shit through the electron microscope way too fucking much.
posted by yoga at 11:46 AM on November 30, 2012


Perhaps I should post in its entirety the 1,000 line chatlog of me and my friend Michele discussing the various nuances of lactose intolerance flatulence.

YES, TO PROJECTS, IDEALLY

It wasn't brilliant, but, shit, it's a blog. I LOL'd. It reminded me of the kind of writing more people used to produce on blogs before everyone realized that other people were actually reading them. Would I'd want to read a whole book written that way? Maybe not! But as a piece it was funny; potty-mouthed funny and situationally funny.

(However, having been to an Ani DiFranco/Bitch and Animal show with my own gang of lady- and mangays—and watched them perform 'Pussy Manifesto' and 'Best Cock on the Block'—I'm not entirely convinced that her concert really was the gayest of all possible things.)
posted by octobersurprise at 11:46 AM on November 30, 2012


Honestly, I'm a pretty straight guy, but I'm sitting here on the phone at work having to really stifle laughter reading this while people run tests on the other end of the line. Yes, it has very little to do with my daily life, but neither does Tolkien or Fitzgerald or The old dead dude that wrote down Beowulf, but I still enjoy them too. Sometimes people think too hard...
posted by pupdog at 11:47 AM on November 30, 2012


Let's say you're a guy who's accustomed to frequenting bars where there pretty much aren't any women, ever, but which are required by law to have a separate, unused women's room. It's actually kind of polite for guys to use the (otherwise cobwebbed and abandoned) women's room for making out and/or whatever else, since they're freeing up the men's room for you to $BODILY_FUNCTION. Oh how nice

Yeah, I got that part, which is why I said "if there are women in the bar." Obviously my preference that people keep their fooling around to the men's room is nonsensical in a purely male gay bar.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:49 AM on November 30, 2012


I thought it was funny, but I loved that it was written by someone from Chicago, in a way that IS SO MUCH LIKE friends of mine from Chicago that it is almost like going back to visit them.

Also, she drives a bus for the CTA? She basically deals with bullshit on a daily basis that would make the comments in this thread seem like conversation at high tea with the Duchess of Crumbthwhistleshire.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:04 PM on November 30, 2012 [4 favorites]


It's true, engineering textbooks are the opposite of lesbians?
posted by ChuraChura at 12:15 PM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


It is known.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:15 PM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


This reminded me of the interview with a biologist, about their work documenting homosexuality in rams, being asked about ewes. "Well, a ewe signals sexual receptiveness by standing completely still. So while there may be lesbian behavior, we'd never know it."

Also, Me'Shell Ndegeocello fucking rocks. I'm a straight guy, and I'd love to go to one of her concerts. No line for the men's room would just be a plus.
posted by panglos at 12:22 PM on November 30, 2012 [5 favorites]


i'm not sanding a vintage fucking dresser from the salvation army.

Utterly hilarious. The only funnier thing I've seen recently was when I walked my dogs past one of my fave local houses several weeks ago and observed that it now has on its porch an actual giant metal chicken. Anyhow, I really enjoy this whole school of self-mocking humor based on taking the chaotic anxious monster-from-the-id torrent of baloney that runs through one's head and cranking it up to 11.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:23 PM on November 30, 2012


cortex: Maybe we should all go take a walk and people who want to talk about the
article or stuff the article talks about can go ahead and do that.


In the words of Tuxedo Sam: "He wants to help but is not needed."
posted by benito.strauss at 12:30 PM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


Reading all the comments, I decided to take a break from doing whatever meaningful work I could do on a Friday afternoon and read this article. The following two thoughts were all that passed through my tired, thick skull while doing so: 1) Well.. it's still better writing than Michelle Tea, for what that's worth & 2) You know, Allie Brosh uses swear words so well... I really miss her writing.
posted by 1f2frfbf at 12:36 PM on November 30, 2012


GODDAMN IT SHAKESPEHERIAN I did not need to see a house centipede up that close, hat and monocle or no
posted by gusandrews at 12:37 PM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


P.s. guys sometimes it's probably ok if someone posts something to mefi which is not perfectly pleasing to everyone or is a dud in some way. Compare how much awful shallow stuff the NY Times posts in a given week...
posted by gusandrews at 12:40 PM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


hat and monocle or no

HA HA I knew it was that horrible picture and I did not click.
posted by elizardbits at 12:40 PM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


Anyhow, I really enjoy this whole school of self-mocking humor based on taking the chaotic anxious monster-from-the-id torrent of baloney that runs through one's head and cranking it up to 11.

Yeah, my first reaction was to scroll down and see if it was an Effing Dykes guest post. (I guess this whole style is a Chicago lesbian thing?) I thought it was hilarious and the last line almost killed me.

I'm a little put off by all the casual dismissals of this piece based on how she has chosen to say things, rather that what she's saying. I wonder sometimes if there's a class thing going on, where we have a tendency to privilege writing that sounds more upper-class (and/or white.) That makes me twitch, a little - there are a lot of really funny, smart people who say worthwhile things in ways that I wouldn't ever think to say them. It's fine to bounce off a piece of writing for whatever reason, but I think it's really important to distinguish between "I didn't like this" and "this isn't worth my time."
posted by restless_nomad at 12:42 PM on November 30, 2012 [8 favorites]


Yeah, I have some issues with the whole dismissing the writing of a gay black woman with what kind of amounts to a tone argument but in the end I think I'd rather look for grumpy cat holiday cards than deal with that trainwreck of a conversation.
posted by elizardbits at 12:46 PM on November 30, 2012 [4 favorites]


I wonder sometimes if there's a class thing going on, where we have a tendency to privilege writing that sounds more upper-class (and/or white.)

I don't wonder. In the previous article linked in this thread, nobody "critiqued" Samantha Irby's stylistic choices.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 12:59 PM on November 30, 2012


After what shakespeherian was pulling in the 90s Music thread, Inspector Centipede is like an old friend coming home for Christmas.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 12:59 PM on November 30, 2012


GODDAMN IT SHAKESPEHERIAN I did not need to see a house centipede up that close, hat and monocle or no

I'm trying to think of anyone around here who gets sweared at more than me. I guess what I mean is: thanks.
posted by shakespeherian at 1:00 PM on November 30, 2012


Girl is intense and pretty hilarious too. I would like to outfit her with Caps.
posted by dabitch at 1:00 PM on November 30, 2012


Every time I see this thread title I read it as "these are the gayest of possible words..." and my mind fill in the rest of Baseball's Sad Lexicon and what with the "trio of bear cubs" it's really opening my mind up to the homoerotic possibilities of baseball poetry.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 1:03 PM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


At least there was no 10 paragraph multicomment build up to a shaggy centipede joke.
posted by elizardbits at 1:03 PM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


Taters means centipedes.
posted by shakespeherian at 1:04 PM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I have some issues with the whole dismissing the writing of a gay black woman with what kind of amounts to a tone argument ....

For the record, I didn't know she was either gay OR black until you mentioned it just now. In fact I wasn't entirely certain the writer was a woman until I came back in here, and thus any urge to "dismiss" her writing on my part are on the merits of the writing itself. I read it and just thought "....meh." Some like it, I didn't, fine.

The pronouncements in here from people about things like SWEARING MAKES WRITING FUNNY and IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THIS THAT IS BECAUSE YOU ARE OLD AND DECRIPIT AND STUPID, however, I am dismissing as being immature.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:07 PM on November 30, 2012


And before anyone gets het up - I mean that the ARGUMENTS are immature, not the people making them.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:09 PM on November 30, 2012


Wait how did you read the thing without knowing she is a woman
posted by shakespeherian at 1:09 PM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


Wait how did you read the thing without knowing she is a woman

The initial essay linked to (the only one I read) talks about being attracted to both genders, so it could have gone either way? (I admit I read it distractedly as I'm at work.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:10 PM on November 30, 2012


But. There is a photo of a black woman in the "about the author" section at the top of the page? She talks about not being sure if she's on a date when she's with a lesbian and mentions how awkward it is that they both use the same gendered restroom?

uh.
posted by elizardbits at 1:12 PM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


Were I still 22, maybe this would all speak to me, but at 36 (and almost 37)

I'm ten years up on you and thought this was pretty damn funny. I'm sure it's partly because I'm married and so I *know* she likes me, so I don't have this kind of inner monologue running anymore. So! Different people are different!
posted by rtha at 1:18 PM on November 30, 2012 [2 favorites]


There is a photo of a black woman in the "about the author" section at the top of the page?

My work blocked the picture.

She talks about not being sure if she's on a date when she's with a lesbian and mentions how awkward it is that they both use the same gendered restroom?

And as I said, I read it distractedly (or, actually, the "voice" turned me off a few paragraphs into it and I didn't get that far). I came back in here and saw everyone calling the author "her," so that's when I knew, but while I was in the actual act of reading the work I was tabula rasa.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:18 PM on November 30, 2012


You haven't tried to love the "Once Upon a Time" show

Yes I have.
posted by byanyothername at 1:22 PM on November 30, 2012


I think Once Upon A Time is okay but it sort of jumped the shark when Mulan joined the cast. Maybe Stitch and Kronk can show up next.

now I want Kronk to join the cast next
posted by Elementary Penguin at 1:30 PM on November 30, 2012


elizardbits: “But. There is a photo of a black woman in the "about the author" section at the top of the page? She talks about not being sure if she's on a date when she's with a lesbian and mentions how awkward it is that they both use the same gendered restroom? uh.”

It's a tiny picture, and her gay isn't showing.

To be fair, she doesn't say she's strictly a lesbian; she says "i'm into love from wherever i can get it." And she talks about going on dates with dudes: "when dating, i rely way too much on the inherent disinterest and thoughtlessness of the average male to provide an air of mystery and intrigue to my otherwise fat and sweaty life."

Honestly, though, I missed the "love from wherever I can get it" bit on my first read (or at least didn't catch the meaning) and I had some of the same confusion as Empress when I first read it. It's interesting, because on thinking about it I realized that most of the lesbians I know are always super-duper-clear about being a lesbian, and in my conversations with them they regularly express a natural wariness about bi women owing to our society's sometimes rather annoying preoccupation with bisexuality in women. As such, it seems like they go out of their way to make it clear they're not into dudes, no, really, absolutely not. This is partially to put off the obnoxious guys who tend to ask about threesomes, but really it's more about honesty going into relationships, I think; nobody wants to date an experimental dilettante who isn't actually interested in forming a lasting bond but wasn't upfront about the fact.

This is a minefield, and as a bi guy myself I want to emphasize that I don't think being bisexual makes you an experimental dilettante. And obviously this isn't something I have experience of myself, at least not directly. But it does seem to be part of the set of issues that lesbians in the world deal with, to the point where the more jarring part of this essay for me was the fact that she didn't flatly say what her orientation was and I gradually figured it out as I read.

Although, once again, I guess I pretty much missed the early cue about "love from wherever i can get it."
posted by koeselitz at 1:31 PM on November 30, 2012


I want to love OUAT more than it's letting me.
posted by rtha at 1:32 PM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


Right but my point is that it seemed odd to me that someone could miss that the author was female.
posted by elizardbits at 1:35 PM on November 30, 2012


Right but my point is that it seemed odd to me that someone could miss that the author was female.

Fair enough, but I did, and so my point is that at least one person who was "dismissive" of her work was not being dismissive "because she was a gay black woman" like you feared was going on.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:38 PM on November 30, 2012


Yeah. But that's kind of just the tiniest part of what Empress was talking about, it seems like.
posted by koeselitz at 1:38 PM on November 30, 2012


Tough crowd. I'm always wondering what goes on in other people's brains and I feel like I got a pretty good glimpse of the her inner voice. I kinda think like this, too. Maybe it just feels 'not right' to those who don't really process life in such a manner? Is it the introspection coupled with a little bit of insecurity?

I feel like most everyone have had to at least danced with this thought: 'WHY AM I SO BAD AT LOVING PEOPLE THE RIGHT WAY?!'
posted by killThisKid at 1:41 PM on November 30, 2012 [3 favorites]


so my point is that at least one person who was "dismissive" of her work was not being dismissive "because she was a gay black woman" like you feared was going on.

But *my* point is that dismissing a work because it doesn't sound like mainstream upper-class English is problematic in and of itself. Not evil, necessarily, and no one has to read something they're not enjoying, but this was apparently not an isolated response in this case and that bugs me a little.
posted by restless_nomad at 1:44 PM on November 30, 2012 [4 favorites]


I would actually start watching Once Upon A Time if Kronk showed up.

Mostly just to hear Lana Parrilla shout PULL THE LEVER KRONK!


wrong lever
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 1:51 PM on November 30, 2012 [4 favorites]


But *my* point is that dismissing a work because it doesn't sound like mainstream upper-class English is problematic in and of itself.

A fair point.

Even here, I'm not sure that "because it didn't sound like mainstream upper-class English" is accurate for all the naysayers. I'm assuming you're referring to the complaints about the over-use of "shit" and "fuck" - but I wouldn't necessarily say that the people who are saying it's overused are doing so "because it doesn't sound like upper-class English," you know?

It's like - say that words like "shit" and "fuck" are like garlic. Now, I think garlic is great. There are those who think "Mercy, garlic is just FAR too strong", but I think it's great. Still, it is definitely possible to put too much garlic into something. It's actually a common mistake from some cooks ("if a LITTLE garlic is great, a lot must be EVEN BETTER"), and too much of any flavor can work to a dish's detriment.

What I'm getting at is: I don't think the people complaining about over-use of profanity are so much like "heavens, garlic is just not proper" so much as they're saying "this kinda went overboard with the garlic, I think."

Everyone's garlic threshold is different, true; just as everyone's profanity threshhold is different. But the people who don't like 6 cloves of garlic in their pasta aren't all delicate flowers, and a shitload of garlic also does not automatically make a dish that much more awesome, is all.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:53 PM on November 30, 2012


restless_nomad: "dismissing a work because it doesn't sound like mainstream upper-class English is problematic in and of itself"

There is an entire spectrum of passable, even good, writing that exists between the posted piece and "mainstream upper-class English". Don't be so reductive.
posted by mkultra at 1:55 PM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


Don't be so reductive.

Says the guy who reduced the piece to the number of times it said "shit" and "fuck", and managed to get both those numbers wrong.
posted by Rory Marinich at 1:56 PM on November 30, 2012 [4 favorites]


oh snap
posted by elizardbits at 2:01 PM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


Rory Marinich: "Says the guy who reduced the piece to the number of times it said "shit" and "fuck", and managed to get both those numbers wrong."

Says the guy who reduced my first comment to one clause.

(I also based my counts on a word find, so it's possible it caught some extra sidebar curses)
posted by mkultra at 2:02 PM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


Okay, fine:

There is an entire spectrum of passable, even good, writing that exists between the posted piece and "mainstream upper-class English".

Yes, and there is an entire spectrum of brilliant, hilarious writing that's even harder to read.

You are allowed to dislike whatever writing you like – I myself am not terribly fond of Steinbeck – but if you're going to attempt any sort of critique based on "objective" measures, you have to do better than word-counting "shit" and "fuck", for reasons which are so blatantly obvious that I assume you don't need me to spell them out for you.

(Let me know if you need further assistance. I am an excellent speller.)
posted by Rory Marinich at 2:08 PM on November 30, 2012


restless_nomad: "I'm a little put off by all the casual dismissals of this piece based on how she has chosen to say things, rather that what she's saying. I wonder sometimes if there's a class thing going on, where we have a tendency to privilege writing that sounds more upper-class (and/or white.) That makes me twitch, a little - there are a lot of really funny, smart people who say worthwhile things in ways that I wouldn't ever think to say them. It's fine to bounce off a piece of writing for whatever reason, but I think it's really important to distinguish between "I didn't like this" and "this isn't worth my time.""

Um....

I found the cursing a distraction. They're a stylistic choice which are high on noise and low on content. At times it also made it feel like she was trying too hard to be funny.

But for heaven's sake, my not liking that style doesn't make me racist and it's not a sign of classism or privilege. I'm not casually dismissing her and on a second read-through I caught more details and found the essay pretty interesting. And said so.
posted by zarq at 2:11 PM on November 30, 2012 [4 favorites]


I like this. Little details of a life I've never lived, nor had much to do with those who have, and written in a way that evokes great empathy. By not relating to that, and being consciously aware that I don't, I somehow get to relate to it anyway. She makes alien experience feel natural, and that is the mark of a great writer.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 2:13 PM on November 30, 2012 [8 favorites]


I'm really not seeing the upper-class English thing, or the ridicule of people who thought the swearing is a little overdone.

I both thought this was funny, and that it might be improved if it had a little less swearing - especially in the beginning I think? - just because at a few points it is too much and distracts from the funny substance of what she's saying.

But the swearing debate doesn't seem like the most interesting thing to talk about, about this? I mean at a certain point we're just saying "I liked it and if you didn't, you're wrong" vs "I didn't like it, and if you did, you're wrong" which is a pretty dull and pointlessly-crabby conversation.
posted by LobsterMitten at 2:15 PM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


I read the whole thing about four times before I posted it. Based on this thread, the criticisms appear to be from people who read it once, or skimmed, and the positive reactions from people who closely read, or read more than once.

People who critique a work based on shallow readings (or indeed no reading, as I've seen in other threads, concerning other authors) are obviously much braver than I.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 2:16 PM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


I'm not into telling other people what's good or bad, because, even if I believed in objective aesthetics, what's the point? I could write an opera of praise for something you hate and you'd still hate it. Maybe -- doubtfully -- I'd somehow prove to you that your hatred was misplaced, that the work was, indeed, of quality. At which point, you'd say, "Yeah. I guess you're right. But I still hate it."

So I'll just explain why I like it.

My favorite writing, in fact the only sort of prose I like, is sensual. By which I don't (necessarily) mean sexual. I mean it tickles the five sentences. I mean that, with words alone, the writer makes me see, hear, touch, smell, and taste, as Orwell did when he described his chacter's experience eating a rancid sausage: "Bombs of filth exploded in his mouth."

Here are some examles from the link:

"I took a second* to hyperventilate in the corner, while shoving napkins in my armpits..."

"there's a think layer of spandex under my clothes holding all my meat and cheese in..."

"do they realize my maternity pants are pulled up to my boobs?"

"but there are those rare occassions when homeboy scrubbed his balls and sprayed good cologne on his chest..."

"this is my favorite of all the chores, because you don't have to be careful when splashing every hard surface liberally with bleach and standing back to watch all of the cholera and measles and whatever else you dragged in on the soles of your feet rinse clean down the drain."

I also enjoy the writing, because it has a confident voice, especially rhythmically: "but I am somehow incapable of doing any of the other shit. i can't change a flat tire. I don't know how to fix grout. i'm not sanding a vintage fucking dresser from the salvation army. I can't hammer things! I don't have a fucking screwdriver!" Try reading that passage out loud.

In addition to all that, it's a window into a world that's alien to me, though perhaps not to you. I'm not just a straight male, I'm one who has been married for 16 years and who was a geek back when geeks were nerds. Which means I never had a girlfriend in high school. Or college. I never experienced this "dating" thing you people talk about.

For me, dating means being best friends with a girl for a year before making a move. And then the moving is holding hands with her, after first getting her permission. Dating, for me, was deeply serious and either led to marriage or, in my few pre-successful stints, to a year of suicidal gestures.

When I read stuff like this, I am both jealous and repulsed. I am jealous of people who just "go" on dates, like it's something one does, like one goes on dates with people one isn't even all that into, just for something to do on a Friday night. Wow! Like there are people who other people say yes to!

I am jealous of anyone who has ever, even for one second, thought of himself or herself as "hot" -- who would even apply that word to himself as a joke. I have no idea what that feels like. The closest I get is feeling generally un-offensive on an overcast day.

At the same time, I feel overjoyed I've never experienced the many bad dates you daters endure. I mean, by the time I proposed, my then future and now present wife and I had already spent hours discussing our poos with an almost scientific relish.

I mean, if you can't discuss pooing, what's the point of dating?

*Quibble: it takes longer than a second to hyperventilate and shove napkins in one's armpits.
posted by grumblebee at 2:23 PM on November 30, 2012 [18 favorites]


Based on this thread, the criticisms appear to be from people who read it once, or skimmed, and the positive reactions from people who closely read, or read more than once.

Well but to be fair those who liked it are far more likely to read it more than once as opposed to those who didn't like it.
posted by shakespeherian at 2:24 PM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


the criticisms appear to be from people who read it once

Who reads anything twice (unless you didn't really read it the first time, or it's been years)?
posted by mrgrimm at 2:31 PM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


I read the whole thing about four times before I posted it. Based on this thread, the criticisms appear to be from people who read it once, or skimmed, and the positive reactions from people who closely read, or read more than once.

If upon a first reading there is nothing that appeals enough to me to desire a second reading, then I say I did my duty and can with free conscience state it ain't my cup of tea. I am skeptical of arguments based upon, "Oh, you just have to read it three more times!" I respect better arguments that at least rely upon the possibility that the hear and now is not just the time and place for the reader to enjoy a reading for any myriad of reasons.

Reading something multiple times at once takes me back to those god awful standardized test questions which require multiple readings because the writing is so terrible.
posted by Atreides at 2:33 PM on November 30, 2012


If upon a first reading there is nothing that appeals enough to me to desire a second reading, then I say I did my duty and can with free conscience state it ain't my cup of tea. I am skeptical of arguments based upon, "Oh, you just have to read it three more times!"

I do not think that people who didn't enjoy a work on an initial reading should re-read until they do. But if people want to construct a coherent critique, skimming to the point one doesn't realize the author is a woman isn't going to cut it.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 2:42 PM on November 30, 2012 [2 favorites]


Who reads anything twice

If something strikes me as awesome/moving/hilarious/so bad that i just can't even/&c there is pretty much no limit to how many times I will read it; this includes everything from a single sentence to a 21-book series.

YAY READING!
posted by elizardbits at 2:46 PM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


shit son there are like brief single sentence comments here that i have gone back to time and again to cackle over
posted by elizardbits at 2:47 PM on November 30, 2012 [3 favorites]


these are genius btw:

"layer of spandex under my clothes holding all my meat and cheese in"

"that's why my apartment is decorated like prison"
posted by LobsterMitten at 2:48 PM on November 30, 2012 [3 favorites]


I've read a bunch of her other pieces now, and her voice and persona just get richer along the way. The one about running into her ex at the art gallery is especially unflinching, and the way she describes a bf watching porn so as not to bug her during a Lifetime Network movie . . . well, this is to some extent a character, but I think there's a whole lot of Actual Sam in there too, and I like the fact that she is just unapologetically not neat and simple and sweet and willing to fit into whatever pigeonhole the reader wants her to.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:53 PM on November 30, 2012 [2 favorites]


Who reads anything twice (unless you didn't really read it the first time, or it's been years)?

Me!

Like, I just went back and reread Kluwe's hilarious smackdown of the MD delegate who spoke against gay marriage (previously on the blue) because it was awesome the first six times I read it, and I wanted to pay more attention this time around to his swearing, which is more artful and literate than in this fpp (though this fpp still does swearing well, to my mind). I'll read this piece again too. I love rereading things that are worth rereading.
posted by rtha at 2:57 PM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


Reading this article scared me off dating women. I'm not sure if I've missed the joke or not.
posted by Gordafarin at 3:07 PM on November 30, 2012


Rory Marinich: "You are allowed to dislike whatever writing you like – I myself am not terribly fond of Steinbeck – but if you're going to attempt any sort of critique based on "objective" measures, you have to do better than word-counting "shit" and "fuck", for reasons which are so blatantly obvious that I assume you don't need me to spell them out for you."

Dude, you really need to tone down the aggression, which is making you the poster child for this comment:

Edgewise: "What's with all the heated debate? I don't think that the people who didn't like the article criticized those who do. I do see a lot of the opposite, however."

Take a deep breath, and go take a walk or something, then read my original comment and consider that perhaps there's more to my criticism of the piece than your hangup over two words.
posted by mkultra at 4:03 PM on November 30, 2012


this post is COMPLETELY NSFW

I didn't think Pat Robertson's office had Internet.
posted by Twang at 4:27 PM on November 30, 2012 [3 favorites]


i use curse words: ain't i cute?!?!
posted by cupcake1337 at 4:57 PM on November 30, 2012


shit son there are like brief single sentence comments here that i have gone back to time and again to cackle over

And that's great, but no one has to be a dick about whether other people liked or didn't like this, okay? That's all anyone's saying.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:17 PM on November 30, 2012 [1 favorite]


Seems we're going down the shitter gladly. What masquerades as writing...
posted by nj_subgenius at 6:32 PM on November 30, 2012


Thx 4 posting this; I loved it/other posts she wrote; that is all.
posted by Pocahontas at 8:53 PM on November 30, 2012


Credibility alert: she claims she is good at killing those disgusting centipede things. holy jesus, those fucking things are gross. but i will kill them and not even squeal while their tiny smashed legs are still moving for a two seconds on my palm.

on my palm??

Nobody—absolutely nobody—has ever killed a household centipede with a bare hand. (If you need proof, here is an up-close picture of the creature.
posted by she's not there at 1:59 AM on December 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


Nobody—absolutely nobody—has ever killed a household centipede with a bare hand.

My coworker did this while I stood there stunned and then did the squicked out dance.
posted by futz at 7:12 AM on December 1, 2012


House centipedes are oogy but they're useful, like spiders, for killing all the actually-bad insects in your house.
posted by LobsterMitten at 7:35 AM on December 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


And that's great, but no one has to be a dick about whether other people liked or didn't like this, okay?

You are taking my enjoyment of reading old mefi comments super personally, so sorry? I guess?
posted by elizardbits at 7:48 AM on December 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


FYI, your favorite band sucks.

Never change, Metafilter. No matther what the future brings, as long as someone is bitching about the fpp and other people are bitching about them bitching about it, Metafilter will always have a place in my heart. ♥
posted by nooneyouknow at 8:42 AM on December 1, 2012


mefiosclerosis.
posted by elizardbits at 9:40 AM on December 1, 2012


Metafilter: Bitching about bitching about it, then bitching some more.

I love this place.
posted by 8-bit floozy at 11:04 AM on December 1, 2012


Nobody—absolutely nobody—has ever killed a household centipede with a bare hand.

I've seen guys on YouTube eat them.
posted by colie at 11:38 AM on December 1, 2012


You shut your mouth right now.
posted by shakespeherian at 11:57 AM on December 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


You shut your mouth right now.

*crunch*
posted by restless_nomad at 12:02 PM on December 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


*crunch*

JUST WHEN I THOUGHT THIS CONVERSATION COULDN'T GET ANY WORSE.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 1:28 PM on December 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


hurf durf human centipede eater
posted by cortex at 1:30 PM on December 1, 2012


Human centipede is all about eating, if I understand correctly.
posted by shakespeherian at 1:36 PM on December 1, 2012


You are taking my enjoyment of reading old mefi comments super personally, so sorry? I guess?

You're assuming you are the person I was talking about. But thanks for the apology, I suppose.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:41 PM on December 1, 2012


Human centipede is all about eating, if I understand correctly.

Hey human centipede is just abuot trying your best and haveing a good time
posted by Greg Nog at 1:50 PM on December 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


hey you guys coming over tonight for a human centipede party

byob
posted by shakespeherian at 1:54 PM on December 1, 2012


Bring Your Own ... oh god

is it Butts

it's butts isn't it
posted by elizardbits at 2:30 PM on December 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


These butts, do they contain fiery liquid stools?
posted by Gordafarin at 3:02 PM on December 1, 2012


it's always butts
posted by shakespeherian at 3:04 PM on December 1, 2012


I never go anywhere without my butt.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:32 PM on December 1, 2012


I lost my butt recently and I can't sit still.
posted by shakespeherian at 3:52 PM on December 1, 2012


That explains why you have legs that won't quit.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:03 PM on December 1, 2012


If we are doing the centipede thing, I would like to reserve the front position, thanks.
posted by Forktine at 4:15 PM on December 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


So is this the thread where people come to discuss aesthetic opinions as if they are somehow factual, and state that people who have different aesthetics are actually incorrect? Because those threads are always awesome!
posted by Bugbread at 4:36 PM on December 1, 2012


If you look again I believe you will find that this is now the thread about butts.
posted by elizardbits at 8:19 PM on December 1, 2012


I concur; butts.
posted by nathancaswell at 8:25 PM on December 1, 2012


All threads are about butts once you get to the bottom.
posted by shakespeherian at 8:32 PM on December 1, 2012


[Metacommentary can go to Metatalk, thanks. ]
posted by restless_nomad at 9:08 PM on December 1, 2012


Not that anyone will read this comment but I've been devouring her archives and also some of her advice column she shares with some dude named "Ian" and there was a post where she talked about reading her love letter to white people as an opener for a standup act and I went "of course!" The effortless reading, the rhythm and emphases: she's writing with a standup comic voice.

I mean I dunno if it's a conscious choice or not, but that's what's going on. She's raconteuse-ing just like she's up on stage with a weird little stool and a bottle of fiji water.
posted by kavasa at 8:34 AM on December 2, 2012 [2 favorites]


If this isn't your cup of tea, that's understandable, different strokes, etc. But having spent the better part of the past three days reading through the entire archives of her blog, I am glad I didn't let a few shits and fucks put me off.

If anything, the profane nature of her writing is obviously a bit of armor protecting the soft squishy vulnerable parts of someone who's been through a lot.(alcoholic parents, becoming an orphan at 13, debilitating intestinal disorders requiring the wearing of adult diapers at the age of 30 just for starters) There's some heartbreakingly sad stuff in there, some side-splittingly funny stuff about horrible situations, and some genuine insight about just how fucked up and wrong this world and the people in it sometimes are.

And a story about burning her nipple on a radiator while trying to sneak to the bathroom to avoid farting in bed with a new boyfriend that had me laughing so hard I think I cracked a rib or something.
posted by billyfleetwood at 12:12 PM on December 2, 2012 [6 favorites]


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