Fuller Up

November 13, 2001 11:14 AM

Fuller Up is a "site about dead musicians...and how they got that way". I got to thinking about my favorite late artists, mostly classic rock, from the 60's, 70's & 80's, and which ones would IMO be making good music were they alive today. Jimi Hendrix, John Lennon, SRV and Bob Marley top that list, while Janis Joplin and Jim Morrison probably died at the right time, when their stars were shining bright. By the way, if you want to know where the deceased RIP, try Find A Grave.
posted by msacheson (36 comments total)

Mark Sandman
Bradley Nowell
Fred Durst (a boy can hope, can't he?)
posted by yerfatma at 12:02 PM on November 13, 2001

It would have to be ROY ORBISON, the guy Elvis called 'the voice', with Mark Bolan (T-REX) for a warmup band. BTW,classic 80s rock is an oxymoron...
posted by Mack Twain at 12:15 PM on November 13, 2001

I can't imagine where you got the idea that John Lennon or Jimi Hendrix would be making good music if they were alive today. The period during which any pop musician is able to create entertaining, original music is very brief. Hendrix's moment lasted for his first two albums. At the time of his death, he had long been dragged down a vortex of ugly noise and improvisation. As one of the most worshipped of all rock gods, he would never hear a critical word, so we can only imagine what depths of self-indulgence he might have plumbed had he lived. As for Lennon, that boy was burned to a crisp long before he was murdered (by whom? Cherchez la femme.) His post-Beatle work is an embarrassment. It can only have gotten worse and worse and worse (see Paul McCartney).
Far from being struck down in her prime, Janis Joplin had shrieked her way into a musical corner by the time she did the vomit-choking thing. Her prime, if she had one, consisted of one Big Brother and the Holding Company album: The first, issued on Mainstream Records. The woman had a miniscule talent, and a vocal style that consisted solely of larynx-shredding self-abuse. Everyone was pretty tired of it when she died. Jim Morrison actually had a pretty long run. He came out with one of the best singles of the Door's career ("Touch Me") shortly before he died. (Of course, he'd gotten a lot of what in another artist would be late-career ludicrousness -- like "The End" --out of the way early on.)
Let's face it, if Paul McCartney, The Who, that guy from the Cream (Eric what's his name), Brian Wilson, Elvis Costello, Elvis Presley, Ray Davies, Joni Mitchell, Mick Jagger, Bob Dylan, or Stevie Wonder had never written or recorded anything after age 26 (I'll give you 28 in a pinch), the world would be a much better place. Ripeness is all.
posted by Faze at 12:26 PM on November 13, 2001

Faze, I'll give you all of the names in the last paragraph except Bob Dylan. His strength is his lyrics, which in his case are very poetic (I'd go so far as to call them poetry), and that tends to get better with age. But I'm a pretty big Dylan fan so I'm biased.

I do appreciate the dead musician reference, though. No more will I sit around and wonder, "Art Garfunkle. Now is he dead?"
posted by jennyb at 12:49 PM on November 13, 2001

Here here, Faze. All rock stars should be required to choke on their own vomit* after their third album.


*I would have said "die in a plane crash" but I thought I'd show a bit of sensitivity after yesterday's tragidy.
posted by bondcliff at 12:50 PM on November 13, 2001

Jim Croce who died at thirty, just one week after recording "I Got a Name."
posted by Carol Anne at 12:51 PM on November 13, 2001

Carol Anne: How about Otis Redding. Died in a plane crash at age 26. The wistful "(Sittin' On) The Dock Of The Bay", a song Redding recorded just three days earlier, became his only million-seller and US pop number 1. What a shame to not live to enjoy the success and popularity of that song.

Mack: I didn't mean to say 80's classic rock (no such thing); I said 80's in reference to Stevie Ray Vaughan (SRV), who would probably be making the best blues rock out there these days.

I think Jimi Hendrix could've returned to his early blues roots as well, maybe mixing it with his late 60's pop-psychedilia flavor.
posted by msacheson at 1:10 PM on November 13, 2001

When I think of Jim Croce, I might think warmly of "Time in A Bottle," or "I Got a Name." Then four words come crashing into my head: "Bad, Bad, Leroy Brown," and I my consciousness goes blind with horror.
posted by Faze at 1:10 PM on November 13, 2001

When I think of Jim Croce, I might think warmly of "Time in A Bottle," or "I Got a Name." Then four words come crashing into my head: "Bad, Bad, Leroy Brown," and I my consciousness goes blind with horror.
posted by Faze at 1:11 PM on November 13, 2001

The period during which any pop musician is able to create entertaining, original music is very brief.

I would respectfully submit the names Leonard Cohen, Neil Young, Lucinda Williams, and a guy from the Jersey shore, someone named Bruce I think it is. . .cept for Bruce, not huge names but people who, as they have aged, have still produced very vital music. Not to mention Emmylou Harris, who is making the best music of her career these days.

But megastardom at an early age, yes, is usually creative death for anyone. I give you that point.
posted by Danf at 1:11 PM on November 13, 2001

had never written or recorded anything after age 26 (I'll give you 28 in a pinch), the world would be a much better place.

All the more reason to institute Carousel.

RENEW!!!! RENEW!!!!
posted by marknau at 1:15 PM on November 13, 2001

I think Ritchie Valens would have done some good work if he'd lived past 17 although, of course, the popularity of that kind of rock 'n roll was waning. Glen Miller was at the peak of his game when his plane was shot down. Otis Redding was on the verge of superstardom when he died.
posted by swift at 1:18 PM on November 13, 2001

It's not the age of the artist. Chronology is irrelevant. It's the box they get put in by massive success, and how they deal with that. Few artists (danf named some) can continue to thrive in the face of those expectations. Those who create for themselves, not for audiences, do best.
posted by luser at 1:42 PM on November 13, 2001

Agreed that rock and pop may be a young person's game, but the best musicians can continue to work in styles that better suit middle age - blues, folk, country etc.

Tom Waits and Rickie Lee Jones are still making good records. And Serge Gainsbourg made his first album aged 30 and remained a superstar in France, and a good songwriter, up to his death at 62.
posted by liam at 2:02 PM on November 13, 2001

Well, of course we'll never know what bizarre turns any of these artists' careers might have taken if they had not gotten on the plane/crashed the motorcycle/inhaled the vomit, etc. I like to think of Marley and Hendrix jamming on some kind of acid-R&B-trance-reggae thing in a club somewhere. Or maybe an unplugged SRV with Janis ('Pearl', her last album, was by far her best. IMO.)

Faze, sorry, but I don't quite buy the 'everything sucks after age 26' statement. With some exceptions, most artists don't want to repeat earlier work, no matter how successful. Admittedly, some seem to run out of things to say on later releases. Others want to explore different directions, but whether they are successful or not is a function of talent, not a biological time period.
posted by groundhog at 2:07 PM on November 13, 2001

i'll second otis redding. i heard pain in my heart and my lover's prayer for the first time on tv a month ago and wondered who that was, it sounded so amazing.

i think biggie smalls was cutoff before his time, too. nick broomfield just finished a tupac/biggie documentary, btw.

does a recluse count as a dead musician?
posted by kliuless at 2:53 PM on November 13, 2001

It's not the artist that gets stale, it's the "pop" that makes him/her stale. Pop is a fickle finger that, having pointed, moves on.

Bless the older musicians that don't give a rat's ass about popularity. Frank Zappa leaps to mind, still exploring new territory before his untimely demise.
posted by shinybeast at 3:19 PM on November 13, 2001

Jaco. I get sad thinking about all the music we're missing without him.
posted by mmarcos at 3:32 PM on November 13, 2001

(Previous post slipped in while I was writing mine). Frank Zappa, yes.
posted by mmarcos at 3:34 PM on November 13, 2001

It's somewhat healing to be able to remember many of the giants as they left us: in their prime.Die when you and your stuff are on top,you'll be fondly remembered...piss the folks off with some over the hill crap-gag and you'll find yourself on hollywood squares.
posted by Mack Twain at 4:12 PM on November 13, 2001

kliuless: I'm sorry, but Biggie Smalls just SUCKED.

As for dead musicians, I think that Bob Marley would have been making wonderful music for many more years.
posted by aacheson at 4:19 PM on November 13, 2001

hi wife!
posted by msacheson at 4:39 PM on November 13, 2001

Speaking of dead musicians: LONDON, Nov. 13 — Artist and “fifth Beatle” Stuart Sutcliffe’s estate may fetch $7.2 million from collectors of memorabilia from the superstar band’s early days, a London auction house said Tuesday. An elusive figure in Beatles mythology, Sutcliffe played bass with the group during their two Hamburg tours between 1960 and 1962, until he quit to pursue art. He died at age 21 from a brain hemorrhage.
posted by Carol Anne at 4:48 PM on November 13, 2001

Syd Barret is still alive?
posted by swift at 4:58 PM on November 13, 2001

Brainiac would have been one of the best bands of the 90s if Timmy Taylor hadn't died in a car wreck one night after driving home from recording Electroshock For President, the band's phenomenal EP.
posted by noisemartyr at 5:13 PM on November 13, 2001

I miss Jerry Garcia.
posted by culberjo at 5:16 PM on November 13, 2001

um, aacheson i'll let that go. if only the east coast - west coast rivalry could have too.

syd barrett shines on...
posted by kliuless at 5:57 PM on November 13, 2001

I'd vote for Jimi still making good music. He and Miles were trying to get together to record something: I can only imagine Agartha and Pangea with Jimi (not to slight Pete Cosey, of course) on lead.

Trane was still recording some vital music when he died in 1967. So was Paul Chambers, the bassist, trumpter Clifford Brown. Charlie Mingus, too. Miles was exploring new hip-hop territory when he died.
posted by philfromhavelock at 5:58 PM on November 13, 2001

culberjo: I, too, miss Jerry Garcia, and he would still be making good music were he alive today. Compared to other young greats cut short (SRV, Jimi, Duane Allman...), Jerry lived a long, full life and gave his fans many good years and different styles of his music. Have you seen "Grateful Dawg"? It was very good. I didn't know much Garcia/Grisman music before seeing the movie.
posted by msacheson at 7:04 PM on November 13, 2001

What about d Boon, brains + guitar of San Pedro's mighty Minutemen? That was one awful rock death -- he had a lot left in him.
posted by argybarg at 7:12 PM on November 13, 2001

I think Ronnie VanZandt would have made some more great tunes had we not lost him! Free Bird!
posted by carolinagrl at 7:30 PM on November 13, 2001

As Young John Watson, he cut Space Guitar in 1950, a sound effect laden jump blues instrumental that some regard as the fountainhead of surf music, was a guitarist influence on and later singer for Frank Zappa, and had a wonderful stretch as a purveyor of novelty funk from the 70s on--I give you Johnny "Guitar" Watson. And just what is it with these Norwegians, anyway?--the best Dylan and Band sites hail from there, too.
posted by y2karl at 7:47 PM on November 13, 2001

The Minutemen played Seattle in 1984. After the show, I bought a t-shirt and the band signed it. d Boon wrote "Good luck in life." I feel sad for him whenever I see that shirt...
posted by shinybeast at 7:47 PM on November 13, 2001

Not that the Johnny Guitar Watson site there is that great...
posted by y2karl at 7:51 PM on November 13, 2001

As for Lennon, that boy was burned to a crisp long before he was murdered (by whom? Cherchez la femme.) His post-Beatle work is an embarrassment.

Great rant. But I call bullshit.

No short-haired yellow bellied son of Tricky-Dicky's
gonna tell me that Lennon's music after the Beatles sucks.

'Cherchez la femme' - cherchez la crappy songs on Double Fantasy, not fantastic tunes like 'Jealous Guy' or 'Instant Karma' or 'How Do You Sleep'?
posted by crunchburger at 10:12 PM on November 13, 2001

mmarcos, I thought of Jaco too when I first saw this site, death by beating/mayhem/karate bouncers-kicking-you-in-the-head category.

December 1 is John Francis Pastorius III's 50th birthday, and Dixie Highway is supposed to be released.

No one can believe he is gone, really, even after 15 years. I remember when I heard the news he had died, this bass player I knew told me and he had tears in his eyes, he came to me in the street and said 'Jaco was like a father to me'.
posted by crunchburger at 10:44 PM on November 13, 2001